Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

[Glitch]

VOTE: RozyRoz

One balloon for you.

I see people.

Light townread on Pickaxe Pete because he actually tries to generate AI discussion and ignores the NAI stuff

This is some major bullshit. I wish I could have been here when your wagon was alive and strong so I could bolster it with my vote as well. When confronted on this by CSF and Bell, let's take a look at this:

Voting with a line meant to be replied to, and not taking part to the discussion about theory that took over the thread for some posts. Not saying his posts are legendary, but they are still better than Superbowl's, for example.

This line of thinking does not make sense whatsoever. I know that you have not been active since post 115 but when you return please answer the question posed to you by CSF here in response to your 110:

I don't follow. Which line by Pickaxe Pete warranted a response...? Like aside from you who quoted his posts to give him a townlean, no one even bothered to respond to Pete's posts.

This feels like a contrived read. More votes on Marshmallow plz n ty.

---

For me it's because I threw a tiny amount of shade at superbowl as a bit of a reaction test and got two small nibbles.

Is this what you're talking about when you said you threw a tiny bit of shade at superbowl? How is this throwing a tiny bit of shade? This is the only time you've addressed SB in the game:

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

Disagree low activity players are better for scum to have around.

Elimming a high activity slot just for info is not a good idea

That's really not what I said though, was it...

Can you please clarify: where did you throw a tiny bit of shade on SB, and where was MM's response to that which made you decide to vote for him? Who was the other person who took your "bait?" This seems like a really weak argument worthy of voting for because I don't see anything indicating that you actually threw shade at SB and especially don't see anywhere where MM gave a reaction to that. And yet somehow MM gave enough reaction to vote for him?

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This argument between you two feels forced af

Stan, can you please define, in as much detail as you possibly can,

exactly

what you meant and exactly what you were trying to communicate by using the term, "forced af?"

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Did we just completely ignore the fact that 72 came in and voted 4 different times on page 9? What the hell was that, 72?

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Can we go back to Norwegian though? I'm interested in if you're scum-reading him.

I'm not really understanding why a naked vote is getting everybody up in arms. I'm not really hard scumreading him or anything but I had a little niggle and I didn't really want to leave my vote empty after I got off Stan. Its been a while but I vaguely recall norway proclaiming himself as town ad nasuem when he was scum.

Good thing i'm green☆

I’M TOWN!

assuming that I remembered correctly then that seems p similar to his scum game.

Why are you unable to see that your naked vote on Norway was sketchy at best? This whole page 10-11 interaction where you're defending your naked vote is really poor. When pushed to explain, the best you've got is to quote two posts from Norway that are super clearly sarcastic and not to be taken as AI? Additionally, your case that Norway is scummy because he wants to know why you're voting him is bad. Everyone would want to know why you cast a vote for them if you just did so out of the blue with no explanation whatsoever. It feels like you set up a trap for him: you know Norway is talkative and expressive and posts a lot. Are you scum taking advantage of that who set up Norway with a naked vote to inquire why you voted him, and then you smeared his playstyle calling him hyper defensive when he simply wanted you to explain why you voted for him? You tried to make him look bad for wanting to understand and wanting you to clarify your vote. Why is it bad that Norway wants you to give information on your vote? I thought you were an advocate of not keeping information to yourself but sharing it with the rest of the world, according to this:

Do you just not understand the concept of keeping information to yourself so you can greater benefit lol?

oh, you are one of those players :/

Nah not necessarily. Transparency is powerful but it's also a game of information. If you just put everything out there 100% of the time you will lose your advantage.

I strongly disagree but its game theory so no point in arguing about it and cluttering up the thread. Lets lynch stan or at least talk about him. What is even that fuzzy alien avatar?

VOTE: Nero Cain

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If something doesn't change we're PL'ing Lapsa before long.

[Glitch]

The difference in a 4 vote wagon and a 5 vote wagon in this game is literally so miniscule that it makes no difference, especially when one of those votes is Lapsa. The MM wagon will continue to die down until MM comes back on and responds to the investigation kicked off by CSF and reminded by me in my post above. If his response is shitty then I'm all for building a serious wagon then. But let's not pretend that 3 votes + Lapsa is a remarkable wagon opportunity to pass up. It's not.

I love a good, strong wagon. The MM wagon is not one as it stands and my vote remains more useful on you.

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway. I won't be voting Superbowl or NPOM as they are my highest TRs, CSF is almost up to that same peak tier.

Bell why does Nero feel townie to you?
Nero, why are you hesitant to accept the town block invitation?
Popopo, have you not shown up yet because of the vote tag rule?

[Glitch]

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or

Norway

Seems a little weird to me that you are chainsaw defending the guy but are ok with a wagon on him. Isn't that talking out of both sides of your mouth?

Statements like this are why I'm SR'ing you. I would expect you to do better than this as town. I clearly have not said anything in defense of Norway, and a solid mafia player should clearly understand the difference between: 1) criticizing your vote against Norway for making a poor case and making a bad argument, and 2) defending Norway himself. The two are literally not even a little bit the same and you should know that. Why are you arguing in bad faith?

also im not getting lynched d1 so your vote is p useless.

its 11 to lynch with 8 days and change left. The choice between a vanity vote and applying the presure vote to MM and moving the game foreward seems like a no brainer to me.

I am

VERY

interested in why you'd even consider a srs vote on norway given that you think I'm scum and thus pushing town or do you think I'm bussing him? or are you just scum that knows I'll flip town and that once I do there very well could be a renewed energy to lynch norway so you are just being oppertunistic?

And here we are again. I expect more from a player of your caliber, Nero. If I SR you because of your play, and SR Norway because of his play, it is optimal to apply pressure, not to speculate blindfolded on a possible scum alliance. I am certainly not, in a game this large especially, going to speculate on players playing scum together right off the bat on D1. Right now is the time for evaluating indiciduals for their actions, not trying to pin two players together for being a scum team when literally no one has flipped.

To address your vanity wagon comments, please tell me how you think that my one single vote on you has not been more productive in producing our conversation here, rather than just parking on MM who is clearly not actually being threatened? One vote on Norway sure did create a lot of great discussion. One vote on you has made some good things happen too, and I'm very happy with how this has turned out.

I think this Nero wagon needs to build. ISO his slot, y'all. Look at how he argues against me here and the points he makes. He is level headed and collected but his arguments are such a stretch that it hurts. Downplaying the usefulness of my "vanity vote," upplaying the strength of the MM wagon, misrepping my criticism of his Norway case as a defense of Norway. This is the best wagon to build, as more pressure will help us see how Nero will respond and see, if he truly is scum, if he will inevitably crack under the pressure of a serious wagon because he has to fabricate SRs.

Additionally, your case that Norway is scummy because he wants to know why you're voting him is bad. Everyone would want to know why you cast a vote for them if you just did so out of the blue with no explanation whatsoever. It feels like you set up a trap for him: you know Norway is talkative and expressive and posts a lot. Are you scum taking advantage of that who set up Norway with a naked vote to inquire why you voted him, and then you smeared his playstyle calling him hyper defensive when he simply wanted you to explain why you voted for him? You tried to make him look bad for wanting to understand and wanting you to clarify your vote. Why is it bad that Norway wants you to give information on your vote?

Echoing my thoughts on this.
Even if i agree with your deconstruction of Nero’s "scum hunting attempt" here. I’m not entirely sure i’d find it AI of Nero. His playstyle is rough and i think he tends to latch on to every little thing as both town and sometimes scum. Therefore i agree it’s faulty logic but not nexesarilly a planned "trap" from scum!him.

If I go back and read what Nero had said before my case on him, this makes sense and I could be swayed there. But 403 and 407 bolster my SR significantly for making such a big stretch to discredit me.

Fwesnid I have actually flipped based on 384, and have a reasonably strong town read on them.

What is it about 384 makes you have a reasonably strong TR? 384 seems fluffy and null to me.

Bleh, just as I was starting to get a gut scum feeling about Superbowl (SB), MM throws a proper case together and is going to make it look like I am sheeping (for the 2nd or 3rd time in this game ).

My read started after re-reading the Stanley interaction. I think Scum!SB genuinely thinks it's a good case that he can latch onto and look like he is scumhunting. And it kind of is, except for the fact that there absolutely could be a SvT interaction that "feels" forced (I take Stanley's response as a throw-away gut feeling after reading - I have made similar statements): Scum could be doing the forcing, which gives the conversation a forced feel overall. Given I have a mild town read on Stan, I am willing to trust his gut in this.

Then there is the reluctance to respond openly, which could be scum motivated as the information may not exist.

And then the response to mis-quoting in 308; later you say you were going to respond, but your initial response doesn't really add up. I think a more natural town response would be to respond to 235, probably in a slightly flustered way given you mis-posted.

All very minor things, but they all add up.

I also am getting town vibes from Nero (and NoPowerOverMe, which will matter in a second). Trusting these vibes puts a question mark over Glitch. And where are you in Glitch's reads? Right where a scum partner would be. I know it is absurd looking for associations prior to a single flip. But like I say, the little things are adding up.

Spoiler:

The difference in a 4 vote wagon and a 5 vote wagon in this game is literally so miniscule that it makes no difference, especially when one of those votes is Lapsa. The MM wagon will continue to die down until MM comes back on and responds to the investigation kicked off by CSF and reminded by me in my post above. If his response is shitty then I'm all for building a serious wagon then. But let's not pretend that 3 votes + Lapsa is a remarkable wagon opportunity to pass up. It's not.

I love a good, strong wagon. The MM wagon is not one as it stands and my vote remains more useful on you.

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway. I won't be voting Superbowl or NPOM as they are my highest TRs, CSF is almost up to that same peak tier.

Bell why does Nero feel townie to you?
Nero, why are you hesitant to accept the town block invitation?
Popopo, have you not shown up yet because of the vote tag rule?

VOTE: Superbowl

This feels like such a good, genuine effort but it's just really off. I get where you're coming from, and if you want to SR me for my own actions that's fine and we can totally talk about it, but your SR of me because of my TR on your top SR is a very weak association argument, and from your post, you know that. Your entire argument is a stretch and instead of making a self-admittedly weak case, I think it would be best to try and push elsewhere with stronger reasoning.

FTR when I play scum I bus the hell out of my scumbuddies. I wouldn't say if I were scum this game, but you can check out Mini 2149 where I played scum with popopo, mavsfan, and Dunnstral and I ripped into all of them consistently throughout the game. If I had more games to show you this I would but currently I don't have any other completed scum games of mine online to reference.

I didn't even call you (Norway) scummy for asking. This is something that you/glitch think happened/made up when it really didn't. and ^, so its not like I ignored it either.

I naked voted him and he responded within 2 mins. He then asked what's the reason for a naked voted so yes I think he's a little freaked out over getting voted. That's my interpretation and I'm entitled to it. It's not a fucking misrep.

So if your naked vote on Norway got a reaction that you don't SR him for, then why did your vote remain on Norway? If you didn't SR him, then why did you vote him?

[Glitch]

Sorry I'm really bad at walling it up, I'll try to do better.

[Glitch]

naw, we were talking about

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway

like one of the first things he did was attack me for voting norway. So it was wierd to me (and I think someone else, CSF?) that he was calling me scum but also willing to wagon the guy that he was chainsaw defending.

Why is it hard to understand this?:

Glitch believes Norway is scummy for reasons X
Nero believes Norway is scummy for reasons Y
Glitch believes reasons X are genuine
Glitch believes reasons Y are a poor argument that are scum indicative

Why does it make me scummy to believe your argument against Norway is bad, while still holding my own thoughts on why he is scummy that are different from yours?

Also, what did I specifically say that constitutes chainsaw defending Norway?

[Glitch]

Hmm. Glitch, you’re the master of IIOA here. Is MM scum using it to seem townie?

Come on now, I've been doing real good on that since Nauci called me on it in 2149 MM seems like an excited newbie in the later half of the game so far. I had a scum lean there at first but it's nulling out the more fluff he posts, not because he's posting townie stuff but because it's such fluff I can't make heads or tails of him.

[Glitch]

its a glitch, ofc its bad.

but also he's calling me scum for attcking norway but also said that he'd be willing to wagon/lynch norway and the mental gymnastics needed for that is mind boggling. Only a few ppl have called him on it and he hasn't offred an explanation so it looks like scum ignoring something potential damming in hopes that it goes away.

This is what I mean when I say you're arguing in bad faith. 559 was a literal wall explaining what you claim is mental gymnastics when in reality, it's simple. SR's are independent of each other. With no flips and 5498674596 players, I am not pushing associations and scum teams. I am pushing individuals. I could have released some of my SR of you by this time because of some of the things you have said but your continued attacks like these that misrepresent and build straw man arguments against me have me convinced you're scum.

[Glitch]

Someone asked me for my case on Norway and I can't find that post to quote it anymore but whoever asked that, here's my answer:

In general, unless you’re really, really, really sure you know that player is scum you don’t shoot n1.

We need early vig shoots because right now we’re fighting the wagon dynamics almost more than scum itself. I played in a large 50 game before and we needed 26 votes to get a lynch in D1. Do you have any idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to convince 26 people to lynch a player?
We need to lower the player pool ASAP, and hopefully by eliminating scum along the way.

I don't like Norway's motivation this game. He was town in the last game I played with him and his morale was up the whole game. I don't like the whole idea of lowering the player pool being top priority right now even at the cost of town deaths. Seems haphazard and wreckless which isn't the Norway I played with last time. Also:

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

I love naked votes.

Is this going to be one of those games.

Nero just spill why you're voting me, i'm not up for your games. Get it over with.

Because i wanna know why you're voting me.

I get the impression you're not a big fan of naked votes from these posts and you prefer people to have reason behind their votes. But then you proceed to naked vote Bell right here:

Anyway let's stop talking about that. It will just waste time.
I'm reconsidering Stan based on NPOM's statement on them so i'll go back here for now. VOTE: Bell

Why is there no more information than this? Are you just returning to your early game SR of Bell? Why have you mentioned nothing of your read on Bell from early on and then you just return to it?

Additionally, your self-meta here does not account for the fact that while personalities do transcend alignments, there is something to be said for playstyle changes according to alignment that you are leaving out:

I can show you numerous examples of town!me reacting to a vote on me i find unfairly or a scumread of me that is unjustified. Even if it's just one.
As scum i usually completely ignore.
I have done the complete opposite of what scum!me would do in this situation.

norway, you understand that ppl are going to scum read you for getting defensive, right?

It doesn’t matter. I can’t change the way i play. I’m always concious and sensitive to people’s reads on me. This isn’t a scum thing either. I always am like that.

I'm conscientious and sensitive to people's reads on me too, but when I'm scum I have to work even harder to hold myself together and not crack under the pressure. As town the pressure is off, so there will certainly be a difference in playstyle. I get more worked up as town. How are you different when you're town vs when you're scum? That's what I'm looking for. You want us to believe so badly that you play the same with both alignments but I just don't believe it.

[Glitch]

With no flips and 5498674596 players, I am not pushing associations and scum teams. I am pushing individuals.

this is literally scum logic. He's not worried about figuring out the dynamics-he just wants lynches. Unless he thinks Norway and I are scum together he can't think norway and I are both scum and he's like "naw, not worried about that."

You have a better chance of dying IRL than winning the lottery.

Do not fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum. Don't bother with trying to draw connections between players until one of them is dead. It's tempting! but futile.

[Glitch]

Nero Cain's case on Norway

Glitch's case on Norway

How it is scummy for me to think your case is bullshit and alignment indicative of you, while simultaneously believing my case is decent enough to have a case? My case is like 6.5/10. Your's is like 2/10. I can have a SL on Norway and a SR on you, and then when one of you are eliminated, it will help me go back and evaluate your content to get a clearer read on the other player who we didn't eliminate. No speculation on if you're a scum team needed as that won't get us anywhere. If you're a scum team or not is irrelevant until one of you flips.

P-edit after 672 hit

Oh I didn't know that chainsaw defending actually had a meaning like that. I thought you just meant I was viciously defending Norway and I was like WTF I never did anything of the sort. lol.

I understand that it wouldn't make a ton of sense for both of you to be scum together. I also understand that I don't know for a fact what either of your alignments are. Just that you're both pinging me as my top SRs so one of you needs to hold my vote. I understand if I'm right about one of you that means I'm probably wrong about the other but until one of you flips I have no way to tell which is which,

except to evaluate both of you based on your own actions, not the actions of each other,

which therefore leaves me with SR'ing you more than Norway because of how you've handled my "vanity vote" on you and the many things I've pointed out about you arguing in bad faith.

[Glitch]

If you think im scum AND don't think we are scum together then you have to think he's town

I understand the point you're trying to make but the only way that this would be true is if I knew for a fact that your alignment was scum. I am speculating and making a case that you are scum because in my mind, you are the highest likelihood to be scum right now. But I don't know for a fact that you are, and I am well aware that I could be wrong and I could get you lynched and you could flip town. Therefore, my read on Norway is not going to be influenced by my read on you because my read on you could very well be wrong.

My quote of the wiki was because you're don't like that I won't call you two a scum team, but I just won't. Most likely, one of you is scum and one of you is town, but I have a hard time figuring out which one. I lean your way but understand that I may be wrong, and both of you being in my scum reads because of your own individual actions does not make me want to lynch first, evaluate later. If I wanted a wreckless lynch I would have just joined the MM wagon. That wagon was freaking easy to jump on.

If I were scum why would I be motivated to push you so hard when I'm literally the only one SRing you?

[Glitch]

I can have a SL on Norway and a SR on you, and then when one of you are eliminated, it will help me go back and evaluate your content to get a clearer read on the other player who we didn't eliminate.

let's go down this rabbit hole. If I were to ever get lynched/vigged/nked you are going to push norway. If norway ever gets lynched/vigged you are going to push me. Are you going to deny that?

Please don't take my statement to a conclusion I never made or implied. I did not say I would push the other if one gets killed. If one of you is killed I will be able to go back and read through both of y'all's posts in order to clarify my reads and get a better understanding of the alignment of the still-living player. Whether I push them or not would depend on how that read comes out.

[Glitch]

If you think im scum AND don't think we are scum together then you have to think he's town

I understand the point you're trying to make but the only way that this would be true is if I knew for a fact that your alignment was scum. I am speculating and making a case that you are scum because in my mind, you are the highest likelihood to be scum right now. But I don't know for a fact that you are, and I am well aware that I could be wrong and I could get you lynched and you could flip town. Therefore, my read on Norway is not going to be influenced by my read on you because my read on you could very well be wrong.

My quote of the wiki was because you're don't like that I won't call you two a scum team, but I just won't. Most likely, one of you is scum and one of you is town, but I have a hard time figuring out which one. I lean your way but understand that I may be wrong, and both of you being in my scum reads because of your own individual actions does not make me want to lynch first, evaluate later. If I wanted a wreckless lynch I would have just joined the MM wagon. That wagon was freaking easy to jump on.

If I were scum why would I be motivated to push you so hard when I'm literally the only one SRing you?

Disgusting post.
VOTE: Glitch

I mean instead of just saying it's disgusting, you could give me something to go on?

[Glitch]

If I wanted a wreckless lynch I would have just joined the MM wagon. That wagon was freaking easy to jump on.

So easy that you didn't jump?

I'm not here for easy wagons. I'm here for getting solid reads. I've accomplished that with a single vote on you. What would I have accomplished by parking my vote on the easy MM wagon early on? I would have accomplished what I'd want as scum -- to coast under the radar and join an easy wagon.

[Glitch]

If you have independent scum reads on each of us why the fuck WOULDn't you push the other once they are dead?

Once one of you were dead, then I would re-evaluate my read of the currently-alive one based on a re-read of your previous interactions with each other. If one of you flips scum and your interactions show that it looks like the other one couldn't be scum, then of course I'm not going to push it. But if one of you flips scum and your interactions show that the one who is still alive could be a scum buddy then I would certainly push it. But right now we have no flips and both of you, based on your own content, fall on my scum radar.

[Glitch]

I don't like Norway's motivation this game. He was town in the last game I played with him and his morale was up the whole game. I don't like the whole idea of lowering the player pool being top priority right now even at the cost of town deaths. Seems haphazard and wreckless which isn't the Norway I played with last time.

Are some of you seriously still harping on the argument that: "Suggesting us to vig players is so scummy!!!!" stuff?

I mean, according to your bestie Nero, there is no statute of limitations on bad arguments coming back to bite you. There's nothing wrong with vigging scummy players and using the vig role wisely. There is something wrong with using it just to get the number of players down at the expense of town deaths early on when there's not enough info to clearly judge alignments. (Which was the case when you made the statement that we should cull down the playerlist with vigs.)

[Glitch]

So in order to maintain a SR on you and advocate your elimination, I have to have a clear understanding of how your flip is going to effect my read on Norway BEFORE you flip? I'm not going to pretend that my 8/10 case on you is 10/10 and I'm 100% right. You're my top scum read but I have no ability to truly, objectively know your alignment until you flip. Why is it scummy of me to accept that and therefore choose not to adjust my present read on Norway based on how I read your alignment?

P-edit @690
You flipping town or scum won't negate the case that I built, but the interactions between you and him, once I know your alignment, will provide more content to fuel a read on Norway. I can't say which way it would push my read unless I were to go back and read it cause honestly I haven't read it in a minute. But reading you and Norway interacting may bolster my SR of him, may null my read of him out, or may sway me to a TR of him. I just don't understand why you think it's necessary for me to read Norway a certain way based on your actions.

[Glitch]

Nero, where can you see that Glitch is pushing your/ Norwegian's lynch, rather than sorting you?

prob the post that says he'll wagon either of us.

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway.

This is why you're scum. You are working so hard to twist my statements and turn them into something that you would clearly understand if you were town genuinely seeking a scum elimination. You quote what I've said and then add your own words or interpretations, representing what I said as something it is not. But you do so in small steps, not giant, huge, sweeping steps. Big misreps would be seen straight through. But small misreps... you keep pulling them off and acting like I've said things that I haven't.

Flake asked you where I pushed for your lynch rather than sorting you. You quoted where I said I would be cool with wagoning you and Norway in response to that question. Please tell me a player with over 36,000 posts on this website understands the difference between supporting a wagon and supporting a lynch. They are not the same,

especially

not in a large when a wagon isn't even as strong as it would be in a smaller game because it is so much harder to get large, actually threatening wagons with 21 players.

You are twisting my words and misrepresenting what I have said to others in an effort to throw shade at me for something I never said. If you would stop arguing against me for things I didn't say, and start arguing with things I actually said, then maybe we could get somewhere. But I'm at a loss. I'm sorry if I'm too much of a noob for you and I try to take advice from the wiki on how to play. We can't all be 36,000+ post pros. I get voted off a lot for being a noob and so following strategy guides is my attempt at trying to get better. If you're going to just belittle me for trying to improve my play, can you at least do it without being condescending?

[Glitch]

In post 314, superbowl9 wrote:
Also dude naked voting someone and saying aha you reacted is the worst possible reaction test of all time

Not what happened and also wrong.

How is this not what happened?

[Glitch]

I don't read on subbing in.

Is this consistent in your other games you've subbed in?

[Glitch]

When asked, "Where does Glitch advocate for lynching y'all," and Nero says, "Right here. Where he wants to wagon us."
Then yes. That's a misrep. I want to wagon. Wagon =/= lynch. It can lead to a lynch. Or it can lead to disbanding the wagon. Why is this controversial?

[Glitch]

I'm on page 42, catching up. Don't hammer yet.

[Glitch]

I'm not at L-1 right? I'll soft claim now and hard claim if I'm put back at L-1. Y'all need me to stay alive until like Day 4. Please don't make me hard claim.

I'll just be honest, I let myself get really emotional and worked up with the Nero interaction. I got really frustrated because I've been making genuine, real arguments and they get consistently shot down and discredited as scummy when they are actually genuine. I know it's part of the game but I got really exhausted with Nero and felt so ready to be done. I genuinely believe Nero is scum because of the arguments I've presented so far, but I also understand that I may be SR'ing him so hard cause I'm just pissed that he is tunneling me so hard.

I stand by everything I said about Nero. I understand I could be playing like a noob but it's all been genuine and if I get eliminated for it, when I flip town please let me know how I can play better and not get voted off D1 cause it tends to happen a lot to me.

Regardless, I'm a town PR that won't be super useful until later in the game. I've been having a really hard time sorting people and making heads and tails of anyone in this game. Idk if it's because it's my first large, Idk if it's because I'm frustrated and too focused in one spot, or something else. Right now my SRs are still Nero, Norway, MM, and I SL Hiraki and Lapsa and would love a push on both of them. I went kind of null on MM at one point but I'm back to a SR there and would be okay with a vote there. I've also gotten some off vibes from SB which is weird because SB was a super strong TR of mine early on. Not sure where I stand on him right now. I'm TR'ing stanley because of his more recent content -- not because he's defending me. See quotes on MM and stan below.

You are using the "Norwee was pushed hard enough for scummates to want to save him" argument against Glitch and are pushing his lynch for it

I am 100% in favor of eliminating Nero but this is not an argument he ever made. This isn't even a misrep, this is a straight up lie, and I like the lal policy so I'll be okay supporting a MM elim now if the Nero wagon won't pick up enough traction to eliminate.

Ftr im against lining up lynched. but either one is a good lynch rn

What do you mean by this?

I'm happy to lynch either nero or superbowl today (preferably nero)but it's best not to line up lynches ie. we shouldn't seriously be suggesting to lynch X person today and Y person tomorrow

Why would scum say this?

[Glitch]

In his opening post he said he would reread an old game he had with you to see if how you were playing here was typical.

Yeah, it mimics it. I kind of tossed on whether that was relevant because it could be something he does as scum too. I also read Norwee as scum in that game and he was scum. So I feel betterish.

Unvote Glitch

Idk if i'm comfortable turning around just based on a extremely vague: "I'll be useful by D4!" claim.

Good but think more.

Could also Vote Hiraki.

Annoying.

Vote: CatScratchFever

I want to expand on this later. Don't have time now.

In addition to expanding on your CSF vote can you expand on my unvote and why you did that?

I think a Glitch flip would say more about me

The whole game is not about everyone developing a good read on you. This is what I'm saying consistently is the problem. So much scumminess. I'm so disappointed there's no wagon on you so far. I'm gonna end up moving my vote, not because I don't want you lynched, but because unfortunately there won't be a lynch there today.

For what it's worth, I've skimmed most of this today. I've done very little, well let's be honest, nothing, letting everyone else do the lifting because I'm terrible on Day 1, and this is a large so that multiplies my awful factor by, I don't know, infinity or something. The only interesting thing that's happened is Glitch's claim, which sounds as fake as a Souder end table. Up to that point I had no opinion of him because I'm lazy, but now I wouldn't mind seeing a lynch push through based on that alone, but I know that's not going to happen because as NoPower said we don't want to take that chance. But I've been burnt too many times by fake claims that can't be proven for days out "I'm an even night whatever" or something; "you guys want me around until Day 4." WTH so that means he's got a locked up slot if he's scum and if he's town I guess he dies tonight or something, so whatever.

Hopefully y'all don't push me all the way to hard claiming but if you do there is a way I can prove to you I'm town with my role if I stay alive N1 and we plan it out here D1. Let's just not do that though because I don't want scum knowing my PR until it is fully realized later on down the road.

[Glitch]

I took a look at Fwesnid ISO because i didn't even remember they were in the game. And it's a very low-impact slot with not much going for them town or scum-wise. It's not a bad lynch. But idk why i should switch there from Glitch when i think they are openly scum while Fwesnid is just a lurk-scum that probably wouldn't survive until ELO anyway.

Still don’t TR glitch like at all.
VOTE: Fwesnid

What was progression here? Going from not a bad lynch but not worth my time to suddenly worth getting on that wagon?

Is it just the dissipation of my wagon that made it to where you could vote for him now? Or was 1387 your setup getting yourself ready to move your vote but making sure that you don't look scummy when you do it?

[Glitch]

I'm not a crazy high activity player and on top of that I came down with the worst sickness I've ever had 2 days ago. It's been horrible. Not sure if it's salmonella, corona, or food poisoning but it's been awful. I apologize for low activity but I have just felt like actual death.

Votes all look the same to me apart from order, besides looter's.

Less lost and more stuck.
Less lost in that I can see the split between joining and not joining the lead wagon easier than with Glitch wagon.
[People who're trying to advance the game + People who don't care what happens with today's hang vs else]
More stuck in that I don't know where to go from here and it seems I'm the person whose supposed to bring the gamestate somewhere.

The lack of theater here makes me hesitant to join the Fwesnid wagon. This post doesn't strike me as a scum response.

The thing i don’t get is, if we all think his claim was fake. Why are we letting him off the hook? For the vague chance that he’ll be town pr that’s left alive for 4 days and scum won’t just rolecop/kill him until then? And arguing that we should lynch him is somehow scummy in itself? Honestly, some of you guys sound like the biggest noobs regarding this situation.

You are STILL advocating for me to hard claim when it clearly isn't happening today. There are so many red flags with you this game bro. Are you trying to see if you should NK me tonight or if you can afford to wait until N3? You must think the latter is preferable since I would be an easier mislynch during a day phase.

"If we all think the claim is take..." You mean you and your bff Nero?

---

After i keep on reading I am so glad to see there is some willingness to vote Norway by others. I think the Nero/Norway duo have a scary grip on how the town thinks and if it's not one scum in there then they both are. We've gotta break this up and Norway has been one of my too SRs all along. Unfortunately Nero is TR too hard to get him voted off today but how about instead of choosing a lynch out of Nero or Norway's elim pools we decide to lynch Norway for his scum behaviors?

VOTE: Norway

[Glitch]

Glich,

I'd be interested in hearing your reads of people who are *not* Norway or Nero.

I find Bell and superbowl are my biggest town reads. Who are your town reads?

Who are you still trying to get a read on? I'm still trying to sort Town Looter and Marshmellow.

Hiraki, Bell, Looter, Stan, and NPOM are my too TRs right now.

SB, Pete, you, and A50 are hard for me to sort and I'm null reading.

Other SL/SRs are Jackson and MM

Still would be cool with PLing lapsa

[Glitch]

God damn it bell don't make me think about reconsidering my read on Nero. I'm still too mad for that.z

Bell gets town points. A50 gets a ton of town points. No votes going there now. I think this Norway wagon is dying too fast.

I struggle to see any value in those slots. I have to ask myself if town!Norway would. Lapsa's iso is a barren field and 72 a dungheap.

I don't know! Maybe?

This is so stupid. I was looking forward to reading Almost50's takes. I thought I finally got a strong townlean from Norway and then he pulls this. And Bell is flaking now. How the hell do you go from "I am sure this is scum and take responsibility if he flips green" to "Oh, I misunderstood a joke. Gonna unvote now" in under 12 hours?

Why are you so upset. If those crappy slots are not scum they'll be PoE'd by the time of maximum 2 days. I wanna lynch informative and wolfy slots. I literally don't care about voting flipbaity slots at this point and you shouldn't either.

Of course you don't. Quiet slots aren't a threat to you. Loud hunting voices are. So lynch the loud ones and scum wins.

I'd be willing to compromise on Lapsa to save another replace in and cause I've been down with that all along but my vote stays with Norway for now. Maybe there's still a chance of this happening.

[Glitch]

Fwesnid never pinged me as scummy and when put under pressure he didn't show any red flags IMO. I believe his claim as much as I can without certain knowledge. He hasn't given me significant enough reason to make me disbelieve him so far.

[Glitch]

A50 is obvtown, so who on that wagon is scum then?

Norway - scum
72 - confusing AF
Titus - let's get some more content
JV - SL'd for a while but TL'd after this weekend
NPOM - TL'd who has nulled out for me

I feel like I need to ISO 72 to get a better read there for sure. I'll do that soon. I would love to hear from all 5 on the wagon if they think there's scum on the wagon and if so, who?

[Glitch]

Oh look that's me I think

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Four balloons to you.

I feel very lost.
UNVOTE:

Second.

I like Hiraki's case on csf.

VOTE: alisae

I'm continuing to sheep Hiraki for now. Regardless if Alisae comes out sounding townie, as the game progresses, people should not forget to ISO CSF.

Not a fan of this wagon, but this day needs to end.

VOTE: fwesnid

UNVOTE: fwesnid

I'll sheep about anyone with a pulse and a crayon right now.

VOTE: lapsa

UNVOTE: lapsa

Nah

VOTE: lapsa

Okay. Let's give it a go.

UNVOTE: lapsa

JacksonVirgo is looking more townie these past few pages.

Unvote, Vote: NPOM

Nope, I'm back to sticking to my guns. Apologies for the lapse in judgment.

I was thinking this.

VOTE: NPOM

How many Sheeping Trophies does Pickaxe Pete have in his basement?

[Glitch]

Pete. Do you have any current or original reads/thoughts on A50, Fwesnid, Norway, Lapsa, and 72? That's looking like it may be our pool.

[Glitch]

My bad. Writing too fast and not proof reading. Scratch the Fwesnid part in that list.

[Glitch]

That Titus wagon grew grossly fast because scum jumped at the opportunity. And we should take this chance to stop letting scum sheep into an east wagon and all vote Norway.

If this Norway wagon won't pick up I'll join the 72 wagon after the back and forth with Titus. I'll hammer out the details soon with a case but hopefully we just can build this Norway wagon.

[Glitch]

Why would scum not kill Nero? It is an advantageous way to get D2 townies to turn on me and Stanley. That would be the most smart move. Why is it scummy to recognize that that setup is not a bad idea for scum?

My role can be confirmed but it is preferable not to give the scum information on how. I know that's pretty WIFOMy as well but I don't intend to reveal the full details of my role until I'm at L1. Hopefully we don't have to go there because there are better options on the table.

A50 - I cant tell if your scum claim is just being goofy or if you're trying to make JV look stupid by saying Nero was on you last night which is why you are town because your action was not blocked?

Also what is this babysitter deal, I missed that??

Gonna read the a50 wall again and check Nero and Pete's reads.

[Glitch]

Why would scum not kill Nero? It is an advantageous way to get D2 townies to turn on me and Stanley. That would be the most smart move. Why is it scummy to recognize that that setup is not a bad idea for scum?

Because that's not the reason they kill Nero. I can say "they shouldve killed fwesnid because that would make people turn on me, eliminating a PR and a good townie!" but that makes no sense for obvious reasons. They killed Nero because he was widely townread, high activity, and I don't remember where but i believe he hinted at being a PR somewhere.

This makes sense and is a fair point. Norway's point wasn't making sense to me. "Its WIFOMy and self defensive," doesn't negate the fact that it is advantageous to shade easy to mislynch townspeople. But your point is fair, not so much that it dismisses my point but more that it makes sense what you're saying to NK a widely TRd player with lots of content.

It's irrelevant to all of that, but running me up to 9 votes is not going to help the town and will only give scum an advantage. Keeping pressure on me until I hard claim will just put a target on my back when I am a major asset to the town late game. So outting that would just be a waste of time and hurt us, possibly tying up our doctor trying to save me on a night when the doctor could be protecting someone else. Freaking WIFOMy I know but I'm just telling the truth.

What's the case on Stanley other than Nero SR him?

[Glitch]

MM were you visited by Fwes last night?

VOTE: MM

[Glitch]

L-1

Death death death.
VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

A50 is a professional troll.

VOTE: MM

Okay no yall A50 was just fucking around to get TL to stop harping on that one point. It seems pretty obvious esp. coming from A50 who just pulled a scumclaim reaction test

This is actually amazing we basically just caught scum MM

VOTE: MarshmallowMarshall

MM is just caught scum...?
VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

VOTE: MM

This seems fairly cut and dry

MM were you visited by Fwes last night?

VOTE: MM

VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall

even if mm is vig, i don't trust him with the gun anyway so...

Unvote, Vote: MM

VOTE: MM

[Glitch]

Now discuss who is scum excluding me, and humor me, play as if I were town but keep your votes on me. And help me aim my vengeful shot.

This is some bullshit theater.

So uh, it's a little bit strange, because I was not notified of anything last night... but I do have a gun. I'm a vigilante, and shot Pickaxe Pete last night for rather obvious reasons.

Do you expect us to believe you to be truthful and honest when you claim that Fwes isn't telling the truth about loud visiting you last night, and then you ask the town who you should take out on your way down? If you were actually the town vig you would take down Fwes because Fwes is lying about loud visiting you. But if Fwes isn't lying and is being honest, you may have scum slipped right here and tried to find any way you could to convince people you were town in the last ditch effort to save yourself by pulling this card. "Help me aim my shot because lamist!" I'd hammer if I weren't already on your wagon.

[Glitch]

Theater as in performance and putting on a real show to try and get out of this elimination.

[Glitch]

If he is town that means Fwes is lying therefore MM should take down Fwes. That's obvious. So why is MM asking for input on who to take down?

Cause he's scum trying to find a way to get last minute town points. It doesn't make sense any other way.

[Glitch]

If he is lying about his claim to vig because he's scum then it's possible he's lying about vengeful too as a deterrent to getting eliminated.

[Glitch]

Which would be Fwes if MM is town. Which I would be really surprised.

[Glitch]

Either way, either MM or Fwes are scum. Much more likely MM. But even if we are wrong and MM is town then he can take down scum Fwes on his way down. But if it goes like we expect and MM is scum he will take down whoever scum wants to die next which will probably be whoever has the most accurate SRs.

[Glitch]

"Let's kill whoever hasn't the most accurate scumreads next!"
^Scum chat probably.

If you would stop tunnelling me then maybe if the scum aren't the smartest then this would have been true and they would have gotten rid of someone who isn't on the right track and we would have better and more accurate reads running through the town.

What you say in this game is important but what you don't say is important too.

[Glitch]

Maybe they should kill stanley he seems to be 100% accurate with all his statements

Wow that would really be an awesome shot I really hope they dont do that :0

MVPost award
I almost spewed my Dr pepper

[Glitch]

If he is scum, then
a) maf kills Fwendis - we know MM is maf
b) maf doesn't kill Fwendis - Fwendis gets an extra shot of his ability

That makes quite a stretch though. This is basically saying we're going to let scum live if they let our PR live. At what point would we then eliminate MM? If you're saying that we shouldn't lynch MM because he'll take Fwesnid down with him as his vengeful shot, you're assuming that MM is lying about being town vig but is actually being honest about being vengeful part.

The only way Fwesnid dies is if he's scum and we were wrong about MM and MM truly is vengeful and takes down Fwes on his way down. But that's so unlikely and MM being scum is so much more likely. If we kill off MM and he's actually scum then he's been lying this whole time and he's probably just using the vengeful part as a way to get people to lay off of him. If he's scum we have no reason to believe he's actually vengeful.

[Glitch]

I'm just being the devil's advocate and making sure this is correct btw.
Mod error could be a thing here.
If not and there were no mistakes then Fwesnid scum dies to MM, or MM scum dies due to elimination.
So this would be the locked in elimination for the day IMO.

Exactly. But if MM is scum, which is the most likely situation, he's probably not even vengeful anyway which means we procure a scum elim without losing Fwes.

[Glitch]

I think that's such a stretch. If we're wrong MM can just take out scum!Fwesnid on his way down and now it will also tell us a bit about the alignment of Flake and A50.

[Glitch]

I'll come back tomorrow and read in depth but is Bell vs Ydrasse boiling down to Ydrasse throws shade on Bell and then denies SRing him and they just bicker? If so I don't get why people's TR on Bell would be affected if he just reacted and was defensive. Defensiveness isn't always a scumtell.

Unfortunately at this point even if MM comes back and says he got an updated night pm from the mod I don't know that we can believe him. He's been given an opportunity here to manipulate us and will take it as scum or be truthful as town. We are on our own on that one. The only thing slightly indicative is that the mod seemed to imply there was a mistake that was corrected.

I'll be back tomorrow after some sleep.

[Glitch]

I went to look into everyone on the 72 wagon. SJReaver (now shelly), A50, Hiraki, Titus, looter, IKSF, sb, Ydrasse, NPOM, and JV. I was puzzled by NPOM's vote on 72 because there was never a mention or statement I saw about SR'ing 72 leading up to his vote. He just jumped on the wagon nice and easy. Turns out that seems to be a pattern throughout the game.

VOTE: Lapsa

Looks like we're consolidating.

VOTE: Glitch

VOTE: Lapsa

Eh why not?

VOTE: Fwesnid

VOTE: Norway

VOTE: A50

VOTE: Titus

VOTE: 72offsuit

I don't feel like lynching a claimed or today.

Nero wanted stanley dead I think.
VOTE: stanley

VOTE: glitch

The context of his votes almost always makes his votes non-controversial. All his votes are underwhelming, unexplained, and easy targets that don't ever rock the boat or scumhunt for himself. Just following the flow. Maybe NPOM should be the next wagon here. ISO him and see how underwhelming his content has been so far.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

---

P-edit I promise it's not coordinated with A50.

[Glitch]

Spoiler:

Do AUSSIES shower like British people shower?

[Glitch]

What are JVs thoughts on NPOM?

[Glitch]

Hold up how does MM NKing someone help us figure out if MM is vig or scum??

[Glitch]

Disappointing how fast that NPOM wagon died. What are shellyc's thoughts on NPOM?

--

I get why people are wagoning NPOM, but what distinguishes him from me? My lack of effort is very much time oriented and I am putting my vote in places to try and be useful.

I meant to reply to this but forgot to. Your loud visit on Flake last night differentiates you from NPOM giving you a lot more town points than NPOM.

Hold up how does MM NKing someone help us figure out if MM is vig or scum??

If there are 2 kills instead of one.
But there are also potentially mafia roleblockers that can mess it up.
The brilliant thing though is that unless mafia has a doctir then the real vig will just shoot a fake claiming scum!MM.

That makes sense. I hadn't thought about that last line with scum!MM getting shot by the real vig.

[Glitch]

I get why people are wagoning NPOM, but what distinguishes him from me? My lack of effort is very much time oriented and I am putting my vote in places to try and be useful.

@NPOM, why haven't you collaborated with those people? Who do you think they are?

Curious... Do you find NPOM's opportunistic wagon hopping this entire game to be AI?

---

Also, does NPOM want to address this progression?

Anyone advocating a glitch elim at this point is scummy.

I don't feel like lynching a claimed or today.

Nero wanted stanley dead I think.
VOTE: stanley

VOTE: glitch

What about 2788 changed your desire not to lynch a claimed PR D1 and when did your thought that advocating my lynch is scummy change? I'm not asking out defensiveness of myself or because this is about me, but because I really don't see the consistency here. It doesn't make sense.

What was that progression? Or did 2789+ change your mind because you've TR sb for so long?

--

im surprised mafia isn't taking advantage of this more than anything

Unvote, Vote: NPOM

@mod

do i need to go hard for NPOM today? i will FYI

Is that Hiraki jokingly asking the mod to tell him if he should vote NPOM or not, or am I misunderstanding the post? It's strange lol

No, this is Hiraki pointing out that his current vote is on NPOM and is miscounted by the mod, which is also true of the current vote count. I figured this out because I was confused by 3320 but then when looking at the vote count his vote was on MM. It didn't make sense. I went to ISO Hiraki because something seemed off and if it wasn't off then maybe I could recruit him to the NPOM wagon. Turned out he is currently voting NPOM.

[Glitch]

This feels less like a scum hunting elimination and more like a policy lynch. Please don't rush this hammer like yesterday and let's get a bit more solid before dropping the hammer. I know if he flips scum this post will make me look bad but a quick hammer without getting a little more discussion out of this is not going to be good.

DDL, please let us know your thoughts. Who on your wagon is scum? Who off your wagon is scum? Do you have strong TRs we should know about?

[Glitch]

Damnit Jackson you didn't give anyone a moment to get off the damn wagon. A 10 person team effort to eliminate him but you took the elim into your own hands and didnt let anyone have a chance to consider the claim. What good is it to declare intent if you're not going to let the claim be read by those on the wagon? If DDL flips town you are a new prime suspect. Clearly you are aware poor hammering is anti town:

We don't need another claim. We need a flip.

VOTE: 72offsuit

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, aight

[Glitch]

Wait was that not actually hammer?

[Glitch]

Btw, the fake L-1s are becoming childishly silly. You don't vote someone and claim they're @L-1 when the VC on the same page shows then @L-4 before your vote. DUH!

Oh wow this is pissing me off now.

What if the real town cop just claimed because he thought he was at L-1 when he wasn't?

FoS JV

[Glitch]

Hiraki and Almost50 could be both scum. They only have been gunning for me after I went after them. Let's lynch stanley.

Maybe they're gunning for you because they realized that your ISO is scummy. Why lynch stanley? What do you think of this JV fake hammer getting someone to claim when they're not at L1?

[Glitch]

What makes your vote on A50 in 2017 towny?

[Glitch]

Whatever. I'm not going to change my playstyle.

Why not? If your current playstyle could get you killed off and you're town, it would be pro-town to adjust and help out rather than coast. After all, I thought:

Only the most stupid of mafia players "can't change the way they play."

[Glitch]

Um
I'm really confused now on whether or not I should dig into what just happened or not

[Glitch]

Nope dont youre fine

My read on you is pretty null so I don't want to blindly trust you.

I have trust in other things. Killing off NPOM was up on my list but... seems like that wagon won't make it now. Fine.

VOTE: Jackson

I'll reconsider NPOM tomorrow or if a major wagon forms and we can revisit this.

[Glitch]

Yes.

[Glitch]

I don't understand why? sb is hard for me to sort.

[Glitch]

Am I dead?

No. Jackson declared intent to hammer you and asked for a claim when you were not at L1. -_-

[Glitch]

Maybe we should run him up to 7 votes and then declare L1

[Glitch]

Vote 1 - Ralph
Vote 2 - shelly
Vote 3 - superbowl
Vote 4 - Norway
Vote 5 - MM
Vote 6 - Flake
Vote 7 - NPOM
Vote 8 - Looter
Vote 9a - JV (unvotes)
Vote 9b - Stanley
Vote 10 - JV (hammer 33 minutes after claim before anyone on the wagon replies to the claim)

Spoiler: Quotes

VOTE: drdo my bad haha . sorey for that

What are your reads?

i dont have any

sorry to disappoint

wtf you have NO READS?
VOTE: DrDolittle

DrDolittle's ISO looks terrible, really terrible. I need to see more from you and this is a pressure vote

I think dolittle deserves to go today over stan actually assuming glitch is legit, I think stan will provide more AI stuff as it goes on and certain stuff is making me question my SR

i told you im not planning to effort at this stage of the game for a variety of reasons

Stuff like this I say 1 passive sentence about how I scumread you and you appear from the ether to throw an excuse at me. Didn't help your case with this one

VOTE: DoLittle

VOTE: DDL
How about you participate now.

What are your reads?

i dont have any

sorry to disappoint

wtf you have NO READS?
VOTE: DrDolittle

DrDolittle's ISO looks terrible, really terrible. I need to see more from you and this is a pressure vote

I guess he's living up to his name, right? But more seriously, I support this and actually VOTE: DrDoLittle moar pressure = moar good. Still would like to see more from Glitch, but.... I guess that's not trending atm? Expecting to see it at the very least on D3, though.

VOTE: DDL

VOTE: ddl

I think dolittle deserves to go today over stan actually assuming glitch is legit, I think stan will provide more AI stuff as it goes on and certain stuff is making me question my SR

i told you im not planning to effort at this stage of the game for a variety of reasons

Stuff like this I say 1 passive sentence about how I scumread you and you appear from the ether to throw an excuse at me. Didn't help your case with this one

VOTE: DoLittle

You are probably my strongest town read right now so I am going to follow your lead.

VOTE: DrDoLittle

L-2 I think

DoLittle could very likely be scum here, might as well pressure for a claim.

VOTE: Dolittle

This is now E-1

Another vague PR claim
UNVOTE:

Ok I cooled off. Its pretty clear that I'm a *very* good PR, and I really don't want to out, unless someone specifically requests it. My clown apathy play is not to draw a NK, and I figure I can avoid ML since this game is a large. I'll give my by and large thoughts tomorrow since it's 3am here

VOTE: DDL
we cant just keep having people soft claim mystery roles and then move on we are just gonna keep going round in circles until we lynch a vt or someone quickhammers. I guess youre prolly sleeping but you gotta claim when youre back

Intent to hammer

You should probably full-claim.

Sorry if wrong but I don't believe a word of any of that.
VOTE: DoLittle

[/quote]

More votes on JV please.

[Glitch]

or I guess votes on him tomorrow kthx

[Glitch]

DDL who were you going to investigate tonight? Do you have a fos on anyone other than Stanley and JV? I'm sorry your hammer was such a mess.

[Glitch]

I oppose mass claim.

[Glitch]

Lol Ydrasse. I'm hiding sparkly faerie secrets in my claim.

Tonight is going to reveal a lot to go off of and mass claim will hopefully not be necessary after tonight's flips.

[Glitch]

I am confusion

VC2.06

With 18 alive it takes 10 to eliminate

DrDolittle (5):

ralph217, shellyc, stan1ey, I Keep Siteflaking, JacksonVirgo

Glitch (2):

DrDolittle, Marshmallow Marshall

stan1ey (3):

Ydrasse, Fwesnid, superbowl9

NoPowerOverMe (3):

Hiraki, Bell, Titus

JacksonVirgo (2):

Glitch, NoPowerOverMe

Not Voting (3):

Town looter, Almost50, NorwegianboyEE

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-09-10 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

@mod: can you please advise on whether or not DDL has been hammered? This VC is really confusing. TIA

I'm sorry there's so much double voting the same person that's making your job hard.

[Glitch]

Holy shit

I will be back to claim after family dinner and I read through. I have a lot of info and my PR has been rendered almost useless I think so I'll out it. I'll be back soon.

[Glitch]

I don't appreciate the stalling comments. Thursday night's we host extended family dinner nights where we cook and host for 9, and I just finished putting my son to bed. The MS community operates on users playing in good faith following a golden rule of not using personal life excuses for in game advantages and I do not appreciate being misconstrued as bending such a rule. I was excited to see the results so I checked in real quick during dinner with the intent to come back later when I had full time and attention. If I get voted off for that reason alone I'm gonna be pissed. Make any argument against me and everything if fair game but please don't argue against my character.

I am the neighborizer. I recruit one user to my neighborhood each night. My strategy from the beginning has been to form a group of people I am confident are town and use our PT to target scum without the influence of other scum in the main thread. Being able to coordinate town lynches essentially forming a secret town block. This hinged solely on my ability to town read successfully and recruit accordingly. When I softclaimed I specifically said my role was not useful until like day 4 which is true. Not until day 4; until like day 4. The effectiveness of our town block neighborhood is not that strong with only 2 of us, really not with 3, but by day 4 the numbers would get to where we start to have some away.

Unfortunately I completely failed in my role and my first recruit was IKSF. I had a strong TR there at the end of D1 and I was completely off just like I was wrong with my read on Nero. My reads have just been whack this game.

Flake and I talked a bit in the PT. He claimed one shot disloyal vigilante telling me he was going to shoot A50 on night 2 but since he's disloyal, if he's town then the shot would not go through. I asked Flake for his town reads because my reads have not been solid this game and he gave me one TR: Norway.

I told him that would be a crazy stretch for me but I decided to reevaluate. As I tried to put the emotions aside I just became more confused than anything about Norway but I liked the vibes i was getting from flake. With Norway pushing so hard for mass claim, I also wanted to avoid claiming. If I claimed and scum knew we had a neighborhood we would lose advantage especially because Flake and I would be outed. So I asked Flake who he thought I should recruit and recommended Norway twice. I decided that my best shot at avoiding mass claim was to recruit Norway, convince him in the PT by showing him the truth of my role, and then he could advocate against mass claim in the main thread because he has a lot of away with everyone.

So I did it. Trusting flake and hoping it would work. When I got on here and saw Flake flipped scum last night I realized I had totally failed in my role and recruited not just scum first but then recruited exactly who the scum recommended I bring in.

For that reason, Norway HAS to be scum. There's no way around it. If I get eliminated first when i flip town y'all will know to kill off Norway. However if you believe me, vote for Norway and we can be down to 2 scum left total.

I crumbled IKSF as my pick twice in Day 2. I will go back and pull quotes when I get to my laptop later.

VOTE: Norway
Please join me.

[Glitch]

I

t's irrelevant to all of that, but running me up to 9 votes is not going to help the town and will only give scum an advantage.

K

eeping pressure on me until I hard claim will just put a target on my back when I am a major asset to the town late game.

S

o outting that would just be a waste of time and hurt us, possibly tying up our doctor trying to save me on a night when the doctor could be protecting someone else.

F

reaking WIFOMy I know but I'm just telling the truth.

Crumb 1

[Glitch]

I

have trust in other things.

K

illing off NPOM was up on my list but...

s

eems like that wagon won't make it now.

F

ine.

Crumb 2

I'm telling the truth here. Vote Norway and if he flips town I'll accept my fate.

[Glitch]

It would have been worth it if I had recruited townspeople but I failed at that.

I nominate Norway for next full claim. He wanted mass claim yesterday. Now's your time to shine bud.

[Glitch]

How would you differentiate between whether or not my claim is real or fake and I've had it ready since day one? Of course I set it up from day one to be ready to claim when I had to. That's not AI.

How does my explanation make you think scum? Also, if you flip me and see I'm town, would you elim Norway?

[Glitch]

UNVOTE: Norway
Interesting.

So many pages to catch up on. I went to sleep after my last post and woke up to so many pages. Omg.

That also makes sense for a neighborizer Glitch to say.

I should quote things...

Why would Neighborizer Glitch say that? Why would they set up a claim? No set up required if it's your role...

Let me turn that around, ehy would scum say that? It’s just one of Glitches peculiarities imo.

I'm just curious why it would be scummy? Town PRs set up their claim from early on all the time. They crumb their role to show later in the game they've had a consistent message all along.

I'll be back with more soon. Not a fan of Shelly and totally okay with this npom wagon.

[Glitch]

I recruited Flake because my reads were a disaster and I was having a hard time across the board. There were very few polarized reads and upon reading back I felt like Flake was the best choice. I was clearly wrong. Detecting town apparently isn't my strength this game.

But I have been for the NPOM elim since yesterday. Let's see what happens.

VOTE: NPOM

L-1

Motion for NPOM to claim.

[Glitch]

Oh I missed the VT claim. Perfectly fine with an NPOM elim today. I just ISO'd him looking for his input on Lapsa/DDL and Flake before flips and there was very little and the bit that is there is pretty lacking. Could go either way so my case from yesterday is what I'm rolling with.

[Glitch]

VOTE: DDL

VOTE: ddl

These votes both being right after another is too scummy to be scum. LOL.

So you're thinking A50 is twtbw?

I just had a light bulb moment that I had not considered before.

IKSF fake claimed one shot disloyal vig in the neighborhood thread D2 and said he was targeting A50 N2. He said if his shot was accurate we elim scum, and if his shot was unsuccessful he targeted town and it wouldn't go through. Clearly Flake did not expect to die that same night and the whole thing was a lie.

What was the purpose of this lie?? I thought all along it was just to seem more towny to me and anyone else should he have to claim in the future. But why would he claim such a big lie?? Did he want to tell me on D3 that he shot unsuccessfully at A50 and that way I believe A50 is town? Then when IKSF has to claim either by L1 or mass claim he has a full story a claim ready that checks out with me and any other witnesses that are in the PT.

Is A50 scum with Flake and this is a runaround to get us to fake townread A50?

If Titus is town, we're good have faith in me.
If Titus is scum, mafia cannot kill me as they have to keep their claim.

I support this post since he seems to think it’s a good idea.

doesn't killing babysitter kill Jackson as well then?

It would. That's why I have fought to not have my target be outed.

This is why I dont understand Jackson's "trust me I got this" plan. If both Titus and JV are town like we want, why would scum kill anyone but Titus? Score a town PR hard claim (Titus) and a town PR soft claim (jv). I think any and all discussion of who Titus targets is scummy and should immediately cease from anyone who is truly town.

I’m waitin’ on Titus.

This is puzzling me. Why is this whole game on hold for Titus's vca, did I miss some huge revelation or prophecy of how good it is going to be? Why have I seen so many players seem to put our progress on hold until Titus comes back? I an TRing Titus but I don't get the following.

Me too. Pull the trigger already.

This sour attitude is almost worth hammering regardless of alignment just to get it out of the game.

[Glitch]

Shelly should be checked on tonight too.

I agree with the thought behind this but neither the person behind it nor the idea of planning out tonight's action in the eyesight of potential scum roleblocker or doc.

P.S. Not gonna vote NPOM myself though. I can't be caught siding y Town.

What does this mean?

[Glitch]

P.S. Not gonna vote NPOM myself though. I can't be caught siding y Town.

What does this mean?

It means I'm going to troll for the rest of the game. I don't care anymore. I pushed NPOM & Norwee earlier, and nobody listened, and now they're pushing me too to bring the NPOM wagon to a halt and some people are starting top listen to them. I won't be bothered to try to convince anyone with anything anymore and I will act as a non-entity. You all need to get 2 more votes (I think) on NPOM soon, and without my cooperation.

Getting NPOM to L-1 isn't "nobody listening." He is still at L-2 if I am not wrong. One single vote jumped off the wagon. I pushed NPOM and Norway this game too. No one listened when I pushed Norway and I pushed hard. I think you're letting your emotions fly a bit when your voice is not being discredited or disregarded. If you're upset about getting SR I get it cause I've been there but push through for those of us who you don't feel are disregarding you.

[Glitch]

why would scum!siteflaking attempt to clear scum!A50 when A50 might flip before siteflaking?'

Hadn't thought that through all the way. That makes sense. Point taken.

[Glitch]

VOTE: no lynch

wat

[Glitch]

Help me understand

[Glitch]

Yes on 850 and I think Shelly will basically do whatever Town once even if she is scum.

Also what makes you think this about shelly? She seems like Sandy from spongebob to me. Mind of her own with no filter, outside influences are met with a karate chop.

[Glitch]

True but I guess I need to go back and read her arguments to see if they're genuine and just happen to be non controversial or if she's scummy and sheepy and trying to not rock the boat on purpose. I've played town before where none of my genuine reads were outside the general consensus and I didn't say anything that rocked the boat and got SR for it. It can be frustrating when you're playing genuinely but it can also be scum lurking and lying low. I'll ISO her and see if I get a feeling either direction.

[Glitch]

This is puzzling me. Why is this whole game on hold for Titus's vca, did I miss some huge revelation or prophecy of how good it is going to be? Why have I seen so many players seem to put our progress on hold until Titus comes back? I an TRing Titus but I don't get the following.

titus' VCA can 1) determine the alignment of titus themselves in a way and 2) determine the alignment of others

check-in because I am back on THE INTERNET!

so this game hinges on titus' vca now which isn't cool

What is happening here and what's with this sheepish progression? One post you're explaining why the game is hanging on Titus's VCA and the next moment you're complaining about it. It doesn't make any sense.

Let's try something different. We can always revisit the NPOM wagon later if we want to.

UNVOTE: NPOM
VOTE: Shelly

[Glitch]

I'm confused. Are MM and Bell both claimed vigis?

[Glitch]

That'd be wild if mod came back and our vote count was off lol

[Glitch]

You know since A50 keeps posting music and this IS musical mafia after all, this is the right place to post this. I posted this is another ome of my games a month or two ago and literally no one paid any mind to it lol. Oh well. Maybe some of my musical friends here will appreciate this.

Spoiler: hit play then read along

Well you can tell by the way I use my vote
I’m a townie boy, no time to stop!

Hunting scum through the days and nights,
try to vote them out,
it's why I was born!

No we can’t stop
Hunting them
Gonna start a bandwagon

Then we’ll try
To understand
The’ffect of all the votes on them

WHETHER YOU ARE SCUMMY OR WHETHER YOU ARE TOWNIE WE’RE STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

FEEL THE SCUMMIES SHAKIN’ AND EVERYBODY QUAKIN’ AND WE’RE STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

AH AH AH AH
STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

AH AH AH AH
STAYING ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE WOOOOAHOAH

Well now I read votes and I read lies,
And if I can’t read either, I guess it’s NAI

Got the scum team stringing’ up my noose,
But then I’m saved by doc, I just can’t lose.

It’s alright,
It’s okay,
I’ll live to see another day

We won’t stop
Until they die
Town 4 lyfe until we die

WHETHER YOU A TOWNIE OR WHETHER YOU A MAFIA WE’RE STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

FEEL THE SCUMMIES SHAKIN’ AND EVERYBODY QUAKIN’ AND WE’RE STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

AH AH AH AH
STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

AH AH AH AH
STAYING ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE

Spoiler:

me and my sister play mafia in person all the time and we jammed it up with this years ago and I thought y'all'd get a kick

[Glitch]

godfather and framer aren't normal

only miller I think

Alright, even better.

A miller claim after a red investigation result should not even be considered though. Miller should have claimed a long time ago. Any red checks now should be immediately eliminated.

[Glitch]

9 v 3 and they're going after our PRs now. No more hiding. It's time for mass claim.

[Glitch]

I think the super townie players shouldn't need to claim anything, but those in the poe or possible poe should.

The super towny players should claim too. Some of them are the claims I'm most interested in seeing.

I did recruit. I'll let you know who when the time is right.

I have already claimed neighborizer or I would start us off. But since I've already claimed, I nominate shellyc for first claim.

[Glitch]

I think the super townie players shouldn't need to claim anything, but those in the poe or possible poe should.

The super towny players should claim too. Some of them are the claims I'm most interested in seeing.

I did recruit. I'll let you know who when the time is right.

I have already claimed neighborizer or I would start us off. But since I've already claimed, I nominate shellyc for first claim.

Nah, A50 should claim first.

I'm down with that too.

[Glitch]

I think the super townie players shouldn't need to claim anything, but those in the poe or possible poe should.

The super towny players should claim too. Some of them are the claims I'm most interested in seeing.

I did recruit. I'll let you know who when the time is right.

I have already claimed neighborizer or I would start us off. But since I've already claimed, I nominate shellyc for first claim.

Why do you think a mass-claim is good? To weed out scum? Then why do you want the townie players to claim

pedit: Smart idea Titus

Because the possibility of excellent scum players being almost universally town read should never be ruled out. Bell, for example, is an example. He is universally town read and is so townie. But he could be playing super well as scum and his charisma level is just off the chart. Mass claim takes down a possible curtain skilled scum can hide behind.

This is not a SR on Bell btw. Just an example of how mass claim will help town, especially since we have so many PR claims already out in the open.

[Glitch]

Tbh it may have been a mistake but Titus gets points for not trusting JV to call the shots on Titus's night action.

My SR on Norway has been heavily impacted by our interactions since I recruited him. Do you SR norway?? Why?

[Glitch]

I can claim any minute

I have already claimed neighborizer or I would start us off. But since I've already claimed, I nominate shellyc for first claim.

sure. I think town is splitting hairs over who should claim first - i'll just do it. does anyone oppose me claiming?

A50 first works as well.

just i won't be able to claim if you need me to for 2 days after this

I kinda just want to claim now

I'm a Vanilla Townie.

any questions?

Wtf is this soft claim hesitant to claim until D6 (wtf) surrounded by eagerness to claim and then a hard VT claim?

And if you're VT why are you so eager to claim??

[Glitch]

Please disregard my last post. I just put 2 and 2 together that shelly is talking about going VLA. Please disregard

[Glitch]

Tbh it may have been a mistake but Titus gets points for not trusting JV to call the shots on Titus's night action.

My SR on Norway has been heavily impacted by our interactions since I recruited him. Do you SR norway?? Why?

Why do I get points for not trusting JV? Do you SR JV?

I TL JV but I hard TR you.

JV seems to have something up his sleeve that he doesn't want us to know the details of yet which is fine. But until I know what that is, I wouldn't necessarily trust him to call the shots of my night action.

[Glitch]

I still scumread Shelly for his "confidence" on a NPOM scumflip.

If I was scum why would I confidently call someone scum in twilight when they were going to flip and I would have looked super bad?

Literally so you could make this post right here

[Glitch]

But I do doubt that.

[Glitch]

VOTE: Almost50
Claim up buddy

[Glitch]

Norway just claim and get the show on the road for everyone else. A50 is not being cooperative and will be the elimination today if we don't get anything else out of mass claim. Everyone just put it out there.

There are 3 too runners for significant SRs by the majority right now. A50, who apparently isn't going to cooperate further. Shelly, who claimed VT. And Stanley, who hasn't claimed yet.

Can we just get this over with so we can move on? If we don't get anything out of mass claim then we can vote put A50 but before we just hammer that super quick let's see if we can dig up anything else.

[Glitch]

Still waiting for claims from Norway, Ralph, and TL. That's all that's left. Please claim so we can put the puzzle together.

[Glitch]

UNVOTE: A50

Omg
I am so freaking glad I finally got a claim out of Norway and Looter. I have been trying to get a claim out of them through mass claim because Norway refused to claim in our PT. I have been suspicious of him this entire time but have been trying to keep that under wraps from him until his claim because:

I am also a motion detector.

I am told each night if the player I recruited visited someone or was visited by someone. All 3 nights came back positive for visiting or being visited.

That's why I've had a solid TR on Titus all along. Because I detected motion on IKSF N1. The real kicker is that Norway, claimed VT, was positive for motion detecting N2 but no PR said they targeted Norway. So the question is...

Did any PR target Norway on N2?

If so PLEASE say something.

If not we have some hardcore WIFOM coming our way. Is Norway scum lying about his claim? Or is Norway town who was visited by a non killing scum PR that night?

N3 Town Looter was positive for motion which makes sense with his claim. Is shelly actually scum though, but then why did Norway immediately jump ship on the A50 wagon he's been pushing so hard and move to his scum buddy rather than take a little time? Is it because he has in the most recent 10-12 pages lost some town points with others so he wants to be first on a scum lynch? TL has no reason to lie because if he is shelly flips town and then it's his head next. But what the hell is going on with Norway??

That's why I recruited Looter instead of my too TR to the neighborhood. I don't think our hood will be quite as useful because I've suspected scum in it all along since the IKSF flip.

[Glitch]

VOTE: shellyc

[Glitch]

Some thoughts I shared in the good. I agree that it is odd Titus hasn't died yet but maybe scum has just been too afraid that Titus would babysit one of them. He did the very first night which is some real deal pressure.

I got a motion detection positive from IKSF night one. No town PR has claimed to have targeted him that night other than Titus. The only other two possibilities would be if he performed the NK that night or if he was protect by a maf doc. The likelihood of either of those happening is neither 0% not a high percentage. Its not impossible but unlikely. Therefore I tend to believe Titus's claim.

Now that I think about it, did any of the dead town aligned people get visited by Titus, and say so in thread? If so, that's enough confirmation right there.

[Glitch]

Titus can you post a list of your targets each night here? Here's mine:

N1 IKSF
N2 Norway
N3 Town Loiter
N4 Bell

All have been positive for motion detection.

[Glitch]

Titus can you post a list of your targets each night here?

They posted it already:

N1:

I keep siteflaking

N2:

Bell

N3: Mm
N4: Jackson

Oh my bad I must have missed it. Let me go ISO bell now that he flipped VT and see if he can confirm titus. If so we have no reason to sus Titus any more and can conf town him.

[Glitch]

Sorry Titus, my bad!

She babysat me.

So Bell confirmed it but from the surrounding posts still had some suspicion on Titus. Damn. Some sort of loud scum role? That's a frustrating alternative I hadn't considered. UGH

I have work to do. No vote yet. I feel like the Ralph and Stanley push between Titus and Norway has two easy targets that are both low constitutive players and therefore easy to aim the town at. I'm not specifically saying one of you two is scum but it feels like if the scum wanted to steer the town towards more mislunches that that is the easiest place to aim for. It makes me hesitant to jump on and want to dig on everyone left.

We have time and I'm not rushing D5. We are too close to lylo to rush this and it's 7v2. I intend to ISO everyone left and hopefully figure some shit out.

[Glitch]

This is a scrambled mess of thoughts but I couldn't figure out how to rearrange it more.

No one is actually confirmed 100%. But from top to bottom:

1) Myself, Jackson and MM are almost 100% confirmed, outside of a deep gambit or bus. MM is probably the most confirmed given Vigilantes can only be town under normal rules
2) Glitch and Ydrasse are also likely town. Glitch's story is pretty robust, and one that would be impressive if fabricated (with many different points of failure), similarly Ydrasse is likely town as she does not have a gun - only scum!Ydrasse scenario is mafia doctor
2a) Titus is tricky. Kinda fits into 2) above, but the fact she is still alive is curious.

That leaves
3) Stanly, Ralph, Norway unconfirmed

SHIT
What if Ydrasse is scum doctor who visited scum Norway N2? Norway has been pushing HARD for Ydrasse to be the recruit to the hood N3 and N4. He was very disappointed that I recruited Looter instead of Ydrasse.

If any town target me for any reason on night 2 i would like them to confirm it right now.
Otherwise i’ll assume it was a scum PR.
(If you don’t know what i’m talking about, Glitch got an positive for motion detector on night 2 on me. Which looks really bad for me so if any town did this i would like for them to just admit it right now.)

Oh shit, I forgot Motion detector doesn't only detect visits on them. Do we think anyone visited NEE or did NEE visit while claiming VT

This is my dilemma right now. I've been wondering the past day or so if Norway is playing exceptionally well as deep wolf. I am really confused by it. With 3 goons flipped there's got to be a scum PR in there. That PR HAD to visit Norway N2 because no other town PRs visited him and he is claiming VT. If the scum PR did not visit Norway that night, that means Norway is scum and either performed the NK or he is the non-NKing scum PR.

All that info puts me at a town block of:

Glitch
MM
Titus
Jackson
Town Looter

And a scum pool of:

Norway
Ydrasse
Ralph
Stanley

It's unlikely for Titus to be scum after my positive motion detection on IKSF unless he performed the NK that night.

The only way Looter could be scum is if Looter and shelly hatched a gambit where scum Looter fake claims gunsmith with positive results on scum shelly so he can take full credit for the shelly lunch, town parking him and winning the game. It's a stretch but not impossible. I still consider this a low likelihood though and honestly if I lose a game to a ballsy gambit like that, they earned it. Still keeping my eyes as open as I can though.

So because of this, in order to achieve a town victory, I think we should start eliminating out of the Ralph, Stanley, Norway, and Ydrasse pool, not necessarily in that order, but with Ydrasse being the last. I feel that unless something changes, if we were to eliminate all 4 of them we would hit both remaining scum. And we can achieve that still. For the breakdown I'm going to use the 5 in my town block vs the 4 in my scum pool:

Now it's -> 5 v 4
D5 elim -> 5 v 3
N5 NK + vig -> 4 v 2 (assuming the next NK is the vig)
D6 elim -> 4 v 1
N6 NK -> 3 v 1
D7 elim -> 3 v 0 Town wins.

I apologize in advance to the 2 townies in the scum pool. Your deaths are a a noble sacrifice I am willing to make.



Y'all help me tear apart this plan and find any holes in it or possible inconsistencies. Do y'all think this would work? If so, I'm fine with starting anywhere except Ydrasse.

[Glitch]

I probably shouldn't have posted that yet but I haven't read anything after 5307 yet and I just hit post. Need to catch up and then I'll revise with whatever new info we have.

[Glitch]

VOTE: Norwegian
Sorry but that last post just screams scum

Can you help me understand why?

I dont think im scummy btw but I am bias. you wouldnt have been able to hammer DDL if I didnt put him at L1 (which people at the time called me scummy for doing). I was on the NPOM wagon which flipped town which I guess was bad but I think its good we got that flip anyway, overall even trying to look objectively I dont think I've been that scummy, or else I wouldnt have made it this far with barely any pressure besides ppl occasionally saying SR me

BUT I can understand from a POE perspective if I look from your perspective im not in a good spot tho, which is why I'm nervous of our "confirmed" PRs because there isnt that many players left from a POE perspective.

It's basically me Ralph and NBEE?

I can see NBEE being scum, but not Ralph tbh.

before this day started I was gonna come in and say its A50 and Ydrasse but obv A50 was town and somebody said Ydrasse was cleared? Ill go back and check that but could someone 3explain how please

Point 1: I just thought about this. Remember way back on D1 when it was me vs Nero and

literally everyone in the thread

thought I was being stupid for SRing and pushing Nero so much? Stanley was the

only one

that took my side and said I had a point. I kinda town binned him there out of bias. As that bias has dissipated long ago, now I'm wondering... since everyone was in agreement that I was being stupid, what if I was? What if I was making a dumb argument and scum Stanley sided with me because he knew I was town, and it really looked like I was gonna be the elimination that day. (I got up to 10 votes/L1.) That way when I flip town and he was the only one to be on my side he could cash in some town points.

Point 2: Look at the text I bolded. Just saying. If Stanley flips scum, we should tunnel Ralph because of this right here. Why can you not see Ralph being scum? How is there anything he's said or hasn't said that is AI to you?

Clear is the wrong word, but i dont think scum would ever put their partner on L1 when ppl were seemingly backing off of the wagon

Shit, I would. I freaking love bus voting, and frequently hammer my scum partners. This logic is faulty at best. The best opportunity for scum to get town points is when they can put their partner at L1 knowing full well the wagon is getting ready to die. I did this exact thing in Mini 2149 (with Norway as well) and used it the next day to defend myself and won. I really think your logic is a bad stretch here.

Ik ppl will say "town should never advocate their own lynch" or whatever but I think it has to be either me or you today NBEE

As faulty as your logic was all page, I agree with this statement.

Also if Norway and Stanley are scum partners they should win a medal for scum theater all page 215. Excellently played if they're the two scum left.

You were an doctor? o_o

Yeah, I thought everyone already knew tho because I slipped accidentally

Maybe I missed it or something or just didn't pick up on another soft claim or crumb but up until reading this page I did not know you were doc, I just knew it was a mystery other night role.

Doctor makes a lot of sense with a vigilante and a babysitter. It gives a lot of killing protection some safety.

Scum could have a strongman but aren't required to have one as scum can just kill whoever they want on even nights if I am not protecting them.

Basically, the doctor is a failsafe built in if MM and I mess up.

this makes less sence . too much powre for town and we can folow the cop . if scum have strongmen then setup to swingy becuse 3 protective really good for towm but only if strongmen dead . so lot is on when strongmen dies and bad balamcing

So? We have a lot of swing. Swing isn't bad in normals.

The balance issue completely goes away if scum didn't play like chicken shits and just killed me. They insisted on shading me and now scum is in a no win situation unless they lynch me.

This is inviting the scum to NK her, which is why I lean to believing Titus's claim. If scum this is good performance but why would she invite the NK upon herself except that she is confident she has found scum and can take one down with her? I feel like that's where she's at. I would not fully clear her now that JV's full claim is out and all but I think saying that town is too overpowered for both Titus's and JV's claims to make sense is not necessarily 100% accurate. Titus is right when she said it's okay for some games to have swing one way or the other. After what I've read (up to 5412 right now) I'd still rather go with Stan or Norway and then if we aren't looking good tomorrow we push for Titus.

It's unlikely for Titus to be scum after my positive motion detection on IKSF unless he performed the NK that night.

?

Sorry, I posted too soon and didn't see JV's doc claim when I wrote that. Still not super convincing that Titus is scum but does take her out of the town block.

SHIT
What if Ydrasse is scum doctor who visited scum Norway N2? Norway has been pushing HARD for Ydrasse to be the recruit to the hood N3 and N4. He was very disappointed that I recruited Looter instead of Ydrasse.

I haven’t been pushing hard at all.
Why do you put emphazis on that here?

I'm a little dramatic lol. You had 3 posts in the PT that indicated to me that you want me to recruit Ydrasse, one of which was disappointment that I recruited Looter instead of Ydrasse. Just makes me wonder what's going on there.

Town Looter was not confirmed in any way at that point while Ydrasse was cleared by a gunsmith.
I pushed fir the logical option at the time.

TL paved the path for the shelly lunch which is either some deepwolf theater or 100% town and I strongly lean town there. This high pressure circumstance we're in though makes me reconsider everything.

I don’t think Ydrasse is a good PoE option and you should reconsider Titus.
@Glitch

I agree that Ydrasse is my least favorite out of that pool and I should reconsider Titus.

[Glitch]

VOTE: stanley

[Glitch]

Stan is scummier in my opinion but a Norway flip either way will give us a ton to go on. I still would prefer stan first after today's posts from him. But I am almost as happy with a Norway lunch too. If he is town we will lose a strong asset but the constant state of being paranoid has been rough. Particularly about the unexplained positive motion detection.

VOTE: Norway

L-1

@mod: I may be V/LA tomorrow and Friday.

I will do the best I can to get on and contribute but I'm not sure how much I can in the next few days. My wife and I are adopting our 14 year old foster son Thursday after trying to for 2 years and we are so excited. Family is coming into town tomorrow and we are gonna be busy. I'll do my best!

[Glitch]

Tomorrow through Friday*

[Glitch]

[Glitch]

haha i am the town doomaayer and i told you its totus .

What does this mean? Also did you ever claim? What did you claim?

I am shocked there was no scum in Norway/Stanley. My reads are so confused now. Somebody somewhere has come up with a great lie they can coast on this while way unless the scum left are Ydrasse and Ralph. What even is happening??

I'll be back after work. Don't end the day before I come back in 10 hours or so.

[Glitch]

In the Ralph quote im asking what is being said when he days doomaayer?

[Glitch]

Hmm. Okay. Have you claimed yet? What did you claim if do?

[Glitch]

My neighborhood is close to useless because every time i recruit someone I start getting paranoid they're scum. I have been SRing Ralph since yesterday. I recruited him for motion detection.

Last night Ralph was negative for motion detection. *frustration*

I actually have to go to work now. I'm probably going after Ydrasse today and if not then Titus or Ralph. Idk yet. Probably more likely Ydrasse as maf doc.

[Glitch]

How has Jackson been verified?

[Glitch]

Sorry I haven't caught up. Still VLA with fam in town but will try hard to get on tomorrow.

[Glitch]

Random thoughts everywhere

glitch youre combined motion dec and neighborer ? can you target already neighbored players?

I'm sure I could but I have little interest in motion detecting you again. I have considered Looter again but the shelly flip just really makes that complicated.

fine basicly the plan is:
jack check me
glitch motion detect titus loot or ydrasse and try to target kill maker

scum cant leave jack alive for wifom cuse then it narros poe and im clear
and its better to rule out jack deepscum world
if jack still alive it gives us info and we can talk abt if jack is pulling the fast oen
we should alway be no luching today

oh and totus target no one

Ralph pushing for me to die is telling. I think they're scum flailing in MyLo now in hopes to get me dead + a town lynch (titus)

I lean this way too. I'm struggling to understand the advantage of no lynch over a Ralph lynch.

if loot glitxh ydrasse totos come on and want fo vote me jus listen to this at the least:::

its ALWAYS better to no lunch today and have totus not act than lunch me today . cuse if jack is scum maybe this game can be saved then when he doesn die . if jack dies then just lunch me and its not a problem ! if no one dies then we lern his result and no lunch again !! dos this make sence ?

Are you intentionally trying to get the town not to kill today and saying Titus should not use her night action?

Reason no elim is best move has nothing to do with PRs nor who lives through the night, but simple statistics: blind voting our odds right now are 33% of hitting scum. That goes up to 40% if we blind vote tomorrow.

It also gives us another set of reliable reads from a town flip, plus the NK info (subject to WIFOM of course).

I guess that makes sense if we are still able to win with 2 accurate day lims afterword. Hmm. Let me go break this down real quick. L

Ralph's motion detection negative is interesting in this context now that I think about it.

Add this to the responses to my little reaction test (5361, which Ralph got town points for and JV got scum points for), and Ralphs general approach, I am feeling very uncomfortable about eliminating anyone today.

Could this be scum soft defending scum?

[Glitch]

Damn I didn't expect that. I recruited Ydrasse for motion detection. Wow.

I'll be back shortly to start sorting this.

[Glitch]

While I love the idea that our cop finally got scum, it's convenient that it just so happened on Night 6 where if JV is scum and Ralph is town, we could lunch Ralph and JV and scum partner would lose.

But then again Ralph is next on my list to boot here even if JV hadn't found him out. It's GOT to be Ralph. I regret that we didn't PL him early on and leave that slot open for someone who is more contributor and readable.

Right now my list goes:

Town
Looter
JV
Titus
Ralph
Scum

In what order would everyone else form their list?

[Glitch]

Damn I didn't expect that. I recruited Ydrasse for motion detection. Wow.

I'll be back shortly to start sorting this.

This seems both genuine and a decision a towny would make. Ydrasse would've been a great motion detection target because she was unlikely to get targeted by anything and therefore a positive would be a reliable guilty result.

You are getting town binned.

This honestly doesn't make sense to me. Idk why that post of mine is AI at all. Can you explain why that post town bins me?

[Glitch]

exciting !

What's exciting and why?

[Glitch]

Ralph, please confirm my visit to you.

confrimed

Ralph, what are your thoughts?

dont think i shuld give them until jack climes result .

dont think i shuld give them until jack climes result .

Why does Jackson's result block you from scumhunting?

Is this scum theater with Titus bussing because she knows Ralph is going down?

Is JV bussing Ralph as a necessary sacrifice to live to the end?

Did Looter bus shelly for town points to get town blocked to the end?

Is Ralph actually town and 2 deep wolves have played us all? No. This is the only question I feel pretty confident answering with a no.

Idk if this level of WIFOM has ever been achieved.

I'll probably end up voting Ralph today but I'm not in any rush. Be slow with your votes, guys. One townie voting for another townie will lose us the game now if both scum jump on the wagon before the first voting townie can unvote.

The only reason JVs quick vote is not scummy AF is his investigation claim.

[Glitch]

Did you tell everyone who you were recruiting in your thingo Glitch?

I did not. I wanted to WIFOM the scum so I posted in the neighborhood asking the mod if I could re-target someone who is in my neighborhood already. My solve was Ydrasse + literally anyone, no one was off the table. So I did not explicitly say my target to try and discourage Looter or Ralph from performing the NK if they were scum, that way I would be more likely to catch Ydrasse performing the NK. Unfortunately my SRs have massively sucked the whole game.

[Glitch]

Sorry i should have finished expounding. I asked the mod that to make Looter and Ralph think I might target them, thus if they are scum the NK should be performed by Ydrasse. I was wrong.

[Glitch]

N1 --> IKSF (Motion Detect: Positive)
N2 --> Norway (Motion Detect: Positive*)
N3 --> Town Looter (Motion Detect: Positive)
N4 --> Bell (Motion Detect: Positive [died])
N5 --> Ralph (Motion Detect: Negative)
N6 --> Ydrasse (Motion Detect: Positive [died])

*N2 is still unexplained and proves scum have a PR.

[Glitch]

Looter do you confirm that. If so there's scum in Looter/Titus. Safest play would be you checking Looter tonight while I protect you and Titus babysits Looter. That way it's an instant win for town I think.

Can you break this down? I'm not following the play here. If there's an autowin, I'd love it.

I'm not fully understanding either but...

This presumes you, me, and Titus are town doesn't it? If you are going to believe that solve enough to move forward accordingly, why are you not pushing your solve as Looter and Ralph scum instead of a Glitch/JV/Titus gambit?

If that's the case that feels like JV and Titus scum team trying to pocket me as their final move to win.

[Glitch]

While I agree that there must be scum in Jackson/Ralph, the WIFOM os intense and if JV is scum I would really lean towards you over Ralph. Jackson or Ralph should definitely be the look today but

all true town players need to be extremely slow to vote for anyone last we lose ourselves the game. This is of utmost importance to the town and we must take this slow. I would venture as far as to suggest intent to vote be declared before voting occurs on anyone.

[Glitch]

Lest*

[Glitch]

Looter do you confirm that. If so there's scum in Looter/Titus. Safest play would be you checking Looter tonight while I protect you and Titus babysits Looter. That way it's an instant win for town I think.

Can you break this down? I'm not following the play here. If there's an autowin, I'd love it.

Since there's going to be one scum going into tonight. Wait fuck I forgot glitch sees visits on their target too hol' up.

If Titus no-visits. Glitch WIFOMS between Titus and Looter. I protect Glitch. Glitch will get either a positive or a negative result and if there's a kill that's an instant guilty, if there's a kill and it's a negative it's a guilty on the other. This is the world where I get shot.

This is a genius plan (presuming we lunch scum today), but I'm interested to know what you thought this auto win situation was before you remembered I see visits on my target.

[Glitch]

It is also very possible scum know they could be in a really bad spot and are going to turn on each other in order to win. Anybody proposing an idea at this point that finds scum still does not get town points in my book. Just putting that out there now because Loot has just coasted on shellys death this whole time and made it this far and I just can't allow that to happen with anyone else after the next scum flip.

[Glitch]

I'm going into full analysis mode here, and I will do so publicly so my ideas can face full scrutiny and retort from all. The more townies review my thoughts the more refined they will become. Two of you are my teammates and two of you are trying to thwart me, and it looks like I might be the swing vote or possibly deciding factor here which is a lot of pressure. Give me some time and let's especially wait until Ralph is back from VLA. But in that time, I will be analyzing. Most of this information is just for me to mull through myself but as you look over, I'd love to here your input as well.

Spoiler: Every possible scum team

Looter + Titus
Looter + JV
Looter + Ralph
Titus + JV
Titus + Ralph
JV + Ralph

This is, of course, my list. Three of us in this game know I am town. For my two remaining teammates, you don't know for sure that I am, so your solves also add:

Spoiler: Additional Solves Other Townies Will Consider

Looter + Glitch
Titus + Glitch
JV + Glitch
Ralph + Glitch

Now let me rank these in order of how likely I think they are to be true.

Pair	Likelihood
Looter + JV	5%
JV + Ralph *	10%
Looter + Titus	15%
Looter + Ralph	20%
Titus + JV	20%
Titus + Ralph	30%

*One of these two is scum for sure.

I'm about to do some ISO dives and will revise my rankings shortly.

[Glitch]

That's a great point and I hadn't put those together yet.

[Glitch]

Key players to analyze:
Players Alive: Titus, Looter, JV, Ralph, Glitch
Flipped Scum: IKSF, SJReaver/Shelly, DDL/Lapsa

Spoiler: Day 1 lunch

VC1.21

With 21 alive it takes 11 to eliminate

72offsuit (11):

SJReaver, Almost50, Hiraki, Titus, town looter, I Keep Siteflaking, superbowl9, Ydrasse, NoPowerOverMe, JacksonVirgo, Pickaxe Pete

(ELIMINATION!)

Titus (2):

Fwesnid, Nero Cain

Ydrasse (2):

NorwegianboyEE, 72offsuit

NorwegianboyEE (2):

Glitch, Dr Dolittle

DrDolittle(1):

ralph217

Fwesnid (1):

Marshmallow Marshall

Not Voting (2):

stan1ey, Bell

Mod Notes:

1. 72offsuit will be eliminated

D1 Important Points:
Lunch:

72offsuit

On Wagon:

SJR

, Titus, Looter,

IKSF

, JV
Off Wagon:
Glitch voting

Norway

DDL

voting

Norway

Ralph voting

DDL

Spoiler: Day 2 lunch

What should've been VC2.05

With 18 alive it takes 10 to eliminate

DrDolittle (10):

ralph217, shellyc, superbowl9, NorwegianBoyEE, Marshmallow Marshall, I Keep Siteflaking, NoPowerOverMe, Town looter, stan1ey, JacksonVirgo

(ELIMINATION!)

Glitch (2):

DrDolittle, Titus

stan1ey (2):

Ydrasse, Fwesnid

NoPowerOverMe (2):

Almost50, Glitch, Hiraki

Ydrasse (1):

Bell

Not Voting (2):

stan1ey, Town looter

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-09-10 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

DrDolittle will be eliminated. Apologies for the mishaps and thank you for your patience.

D2 Important Points:
Lunch:

DDL

On Wagon: Ralph,

shelly

,

IKSF

, Looter, JV
Off Wagon:

DDL

voting Glitch
Titus voting Glitch
Glitch voting

NPOM

Spoiler: Day 3 lunch

Hello everyone,
I have not been able to get in contact with ManateeDude, so I'll be jumping in to keep this game moving along. I believe I have access to everything I need to run the game to completion.

VC3.02

With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate

NoPowerOverMe (8:)

Ydrasse, shellyc, JacksonVirgo, stan1ey, Town looter, Titus, NorwegianBoyEE, Bell

No Elimination (1:)

NoPowerOverMe

shellyc (1:)

Glitch

Not Voting (5):

Almost50, Hiraki, Fwesnid, ralph217, Marshmallow Marshall

Deadline:

An Elimination has been achieved.

D3 Important Points
Lunch:

NPOM

On Wagon:

shelly

, JV, Looter, Titus
Off Wagon:
Glitch voting

shelly

Ralph not voting

Spoiler: Day 4 lunch

Micc/manatee, would an unaware back up have a gun on them if they weren’t activated yet?

I can't answer this question because "unaware" is not a Normal role or modifier.

Votecount 4.04

shellyc (7) -

NorwegianboyEE, JacksonVirgo, stan1ey, Town looter, Glitch, Bell, Marshmallow Marshall

Almost50 (1) -

Titus

Titus (1) -

Almost50

Town Looter (1) -

shellyc

Not Voting (2) -

Ydrasse, ralph217

With 12 players alive it takes 7 votes to eliminate.

An elimination has been achieved.

D4 Important Points
Lunch:

shelly

On Wagon: JV, Looter, Glitch
Off wagon:
Titus voting

A50

Shelly

voting Looter

Spoiler: Day 5 lunch

Votecount 5.04

NorwegianboyEE (5) -

JacksonVirgo, Marshmallow Marshall, Titus, Glitch, NorwegianboyEE

Titus (1) -

ralph217

Not Voting (3) -

Ydrasse, stan1ey, Town looter

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

An elimination has been achieved.

Glitch is V/LA until 9/25.

D5 Important Points
Lunch:

Norway

On Wagon: JV, Titus, Glitch,

Norway

Off Wagon:
Ralph voting Titus
Looter not voting

Spoiler: Day 6 lunch

Votecount 6.03

No Elimination (4) -

Titus, ralph217, Ydrasse, Town Looter

ralph217 (1) -

JacksonVirgo

Not Voting (1) -

Glitch

With 6 players alive it takes 4 votes to eliminate.

No elimination has been achieved.

D6 Important Points
No Lunch
On No-Lunch Wagon: Titus, ralph, Looter
Off Wagon:
JV voting for Ralph
Glitch not voting

[hr]

D1 72offsuit is killed. We eliminated town but at the end of the day, Ralph was not on the town elim wagon and was voting for scum. This means for Ralph to be scum he would have to be bussing DDL from D1. Titus, Looter, and JV were all in support of the town elimination that day.

D2 scum DDL is killed. Ralph continued to maintain his vote on DDL and was on the wagon for the scum elim. Scum team shelly and Flake were on the wagon, along with Ralph, Looter, and JV. Titus was voting for me.

This seems to indicate there is probably two town in Ralph, Looter, and JV as all 4 scum partners voting for their fifth teammate it very unlikely.

Because I am town, and there are probably two town in Ralph, Looter, and JV, this shades Titus pretty seriously.[/b]

D3 we killed town NPOM. Ralph did not have a vote at the elim. JV, Looter, and Titus were all on NPOM for his town flip and one of them has to be scum. Why was Ralph not on board with the town elim D3 if he is scum, especially after voting scum at the end of the day both D1 and D2? Ralph has an excellent voting record so far as scummy as he is.

D4 Titus was not a part of the scum shelly lunch but instead was voting for A50 at the time of the elim. JV and Looter were on the wagon though to lunch shelly. With only three alive that day (shelly, ???, and ???), it is unlikely that both scum partners were voting shelly at the end of the day suggesting there MUST be one town between JV and Looter.

D5 I voted off town!Norway with JV and Titus. With only 2 scum left in the game and 5 to eliminate, it is most likely that one of the two remaining scum were on the Norway wagon, indicating there is one scum between JV and Titus.

D6 is not really helpful at this point as everyone voted for no lunch except JV voting for Ralph which doesn’t help us either.

Based on D2 alone: Ralph, Looter, and JV all have 33% chance of being town
Based on D4 alone: JV and Looter both have a 50% chance of being town.
Based on D1-D3 Ralph’s voting record is very towny but there is no information available to actually give a percentage boost on that.
Based on D3, JV, Looter, and Titus all have a 33% chance of being scum. But with JV and Looter having a 50% chance of being town from D4, Titus’s 33% chance really stands out as Titus has no voting record to boost her town percentage.
Based on D5 alone: JV and Titus share a 50% chance of being scum each.

That last paragraph is sloppy but I’m about to start working on a table of percentages. Posting it soon.

[Glitch]

That's a great point and I hadn't put those together yet.

Which one were you replying to?

That there's no way it's Looter and Titus.

[Glitch]

No need to get arrogant. Just because our whole game was put on hold for people to wait on your VCA at one point (scum shelly being the loudest voice wanting to wait for it), doesn't mean the rest of us can't do VCA either.

Based

exclusively

on my VCA:

Player	% Town	% Scum	Alignment Points
JV	50%	50%	0% lean either alignment
Titus	-	50%	50% lean to Scum
Ralph	33%	-	33% lean to Town
Looter	50%	33%	17% lean to Town

Now of course this is not to be used to determine full reads but simply to help bolster them or help us ask questions. This has helped me to see I need to read Ralph deeper than just surface level scum if I'm going to SR him. If he's scum he's played smarter than I have given him credit for so far because I had not yet reconciled his D1-D3 votes with his potential scum alignment. It's also helped me see that Titus's voting record is bleak and makes me more suspicious than anything.

Based on all this my solve is pretty firmly rooted in Titus and either Ralph or JV. I almost would rather vote Titus than Ralph today but JV's red check claim necessitates lunching between the two of them.

[Glitch]

That VCA makes me lean Titus + Glitch ngl. But one thing that's getting to me is that they didn't kill me when titus was off me. Could be that their only shot was to yeet me to oblivion through pushing for a no-lynch and "forcing" titus to make no action and then when I don't die they can yeet me even if I had a red-check or not since it may be hard from their pov to yeet Looter.

Unsure aorn

I don't get this at all, can you try again? In what world is your solve me and Titus when you say you got a red check on Ralph?

[Glitch]

My apologies then Titus

[Glitch]

Jack I understand that the 50/50 is definitely the case and is certainly going to be our pool today but the WIFOM is strong here because you could be scum false claiming the red check in a final move to win the game. Based on play so far I have really believed your claim all along but before I make a game deciding move I need to read your full ISO and Ralph's full ISO. I don't want to make a move based on trust. I need to dig more.

I posted a lot tonight. Probably all for now but there will be more coming.

JV, if you had not gotten a result last night who would your second choice have been for today's elim?

Titus and Ralph, what is your solve?

[Glitch]

Jackson have you town cased yourself anywhere lately? If not could you?

[Glitch]

pedit: I meant Ralph not you glitch oof

Oh I think I just now got this. Are you saying in 5777 you meant Titus and Ralph not Titus and me? If so, that's the solve I'm at too and if that is what you mean then you can disregard my question posed to you about your second choice.

[Glitch]

Pretty good analysis. Only thing I don't like is the D4 Elimination. I had a gun guilty on a claimed VT. Scum would've known this is legit (or if in a Scum!Loot scenario they would know it's a bus), so it's likely all scum would have jumped on the wagon, unless they wanted to play some game theory.

Which is interesting, because both Ralph and Titus were off the wagon lol.

This is why I'm analyzing in the public eye, for scrutiny like this. This is really helpful and I hadn't put that all together. Jackson's town case of himself is very convincing and this point is decent too. I'm leaning harder and harder towards Titus and Ralph solve. I have no doubts that Ralph is scum now after his most recent posts but I don't want to end the day even if we have found scum yet because I have a lot more work to do before we go into the next night. I need to get all this analysis out before we go into night just in case I am the NK and won't be able to make cases tomorrow.

[Glitch]

From a game spec point of view, does my role being real make Jacksons role less likely to be real?

We would have:
- One 3 shot weak investigative (proven, Fwesnid)
- One single shot (night 3) weak investigative (me)
- One full weak investigative (unproven, Glitch)
- One full semi-strong investigative (proven, 72offsuit)
- One partial strong investigative (unproven, JV)

Like, if 72 wasn't killed we would have a crazy amount of mechanical information. Especially seeing as it appears scum don't have a roleblocker (well, they might if it's JV/Titus scum team).

I'm going to try to break this down more so it's more understandable for me. Putting the mechanics together is hard for my brain to process. Flipped Scum:

DrDolittle,

Mafia Goon

, was eliminated D2
I Keep Siteflaking,

Mafia Goon

, was killed N2
shellyc,

Mafia Goon

, was eliminated D4

Flipped Town PRs:

72offsuit,

Town Watcher

was eliminated D1
Nero Cain,

Town Disloyal Roleblocker

was killed N1
Fwesnid,

Town 3-Shot Loud Gunsmith

, was killed N3
Marshmallow Marshall,

Town Vengeful Vigilante

, was killed N5

Claims:

Glitch

- Neighborizing Motion Detector

JV

- Alternating Doc/Cop

Titus

- Loud Babysitter

Looter

- Night 3 Gunsmith

Ralph

- VT

[Glitch]

Ralph and TItus do seem to be on countering sides before I outted my check, it could be that Ralph is planning to yeet themself in hopes of Titus getting enough credit to win through tomorrow.

Ralph Titus should be an impossibility. Ralph Titus doesn't kill Ydrasse there, leaving a terrible bind. The autoloss scenario. Let's suppose that Ralph/Titus decided to leave Jackson alive to cop them, despite knowing Jackson was unprotected. The next logical kill would be Glitch to prevent from being caught comitting a kill.

Not killing either of these two suggests a team that couldn't kill safely. No one else kills Ydrasse there.

Except we are in ELo. And WIFOM is a thing.

Leaving Jackson alive is great WIFOM-based cover for you because it gives your babysitter claim more support. It's a risky play, but it's a good one.

I'd also like to add on that a Ralph and Titus scum team would not have a terrible problem killing off Ydrasse knowing that she was next up under suspicion and therefore the likely target of my motion detector. Ydrasse was a likely target of JV's cop as well so it could be a calculated risk. It also could be that scum knew that even if town JV got a red check they could smear him enough to make him be the lunch. But because Ydrasse was sus by default of her VT claim and more there was a real possibility of her getting checked and not true scum. Risk worth taking?

Also, if the scum team is Ralph and Titus it is impossible for me to "catch" y'all committing the kill as long as Titus always performs the kill. There is no point in me checking Titus because she will come back positive as town for babysitting or as scum for the NK but I don't get info on which way that is. If Titus is scum, how could the motion detector "catch" them in the NK? I am not a logical kill at all for Titus and Ralph.

[Glitch]

I'm not ignoring you Titus, just working through each post in order. I'll get to your response

[Glitch]

To continue 5804. Town has, from my POV of course:

Watcher
Disloyal Roleblocker
3 Shot Loud Gunsmith
Vengeful Vigilante
Neighborizing Motion Detector

N3 Gunsmith

L

o

u

d

B

a

b

y

s

i

t

t

e

r

A

l

t

e

r

n

a

t

i

n

g

D

o

c

/

C

o

p

I lean to believing Looter's claim first out of the pool of unflipped PR claims because it led directly to the shelly lunch. If Looter is scum and wins the game because I believed that, then honestly he gets a medal and I will congratulate him for playing so well as scum. Doesn't mean I'm ruling scum!Looter out 100% but the likelihood there is just too low for me to consider voting for today.

Our flipped town PR's and my PR strongly indicate scum definitely has some stacked power as well, whether that's one or two of them with a PR. Town having a RB, watcher and motion detector indicates that there must be scum PRs. Titus's loud status has been confirmed. But that doesn't mean that she isn't a loud scum PR. JV's claim seems like a heavy amount of power but I don't think it rules out the possibility of Looter's N3 gunsmith especially after it resulted in the shelly lunch. If either of Looter or JV's PRs are false I don't think there's enough room right now to differentiate which is true and which is not based on setup spec.

[Glitch]

ok so its jack and loots for scum and glitch and totus are the ones i need to cinvince . titus my vla ends tomorrow so ill case jack then

I'm eager to hear why Jackson and Looter are scum as those two are the cleanest in my book.

[Glitch]

Going back to the hospital for my girlfriends foot, please wish her luck she needs it it’s really really bad

Sorry if I don’t post for a while

I'm sorry to hear this Jackson. Hope things turn out the best they can for her.

[Glitch]

@Glitch, how does your analysis change because I was afk during the Shelley speedwagon and guilties are generally not useful in vca?

In response to this and your casing yourself on the AFK during the shelly speedwagon, I suppose this means I need to strike my reads developed from my original D4 analysis. The only read I feel like I can accurately develop from that now is Looter's PR claim which I have a hard time hypothesizing why he would fake that as scum at that point in the game.

[Glitch]

@Glitch 5807, Your foundation is wrong. I can't kill and perform my action. There's no multitasking notification in the rules as is required in normals. Ralph would be required to do the kills.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Guess my newb is showing lol.

[Glitch]

Then let me re-evaluate last night. If Ralph and Titus are scum, and their NK pool is:

Glitch - Motion Detector Neighborizer
JV - Cop/Doc (cop that night)
Ydrasse - VT
Looter - N3 Gunsmith (used up)

Who would their target be and why?

Why did they not NK JV, or if multitasking is not a thing, me?

Then again, why have scum been killing off VTs throughout the game when there are claimed town PRs out in the open they could have NK'd? Their choice in NKs have been odd for a while now. superbowl. Bell. Now Ydrasse. Perhaps they kill them off not because of their mechanical threat but because of their logical and daytime threat. This is really frustrating me though as it is making me hesitate on what was last night a convinced SR of Titus. *deep breath* Time to ISO everyone. ugh

[Glitch]

Mod: Are scum multitasking?

Mod: Are scum multitasking?

Mafia in this game do not have Multitasking by default. It is possible for Mafia in this game to have Multitasking as a role modifier.

f

a

s

c

i

n

a

t

i

n

g

Is this scum asking the mod for clarification in order to gain town points?I asked the mod a question in the PT yesterday, not because I wanted an answer, but to get people to think a certain way. I certainly don't put it past Titus.

[Glitch]

Spoiler: Flake's interactions with and regarding other scum

yes, I'm informing the guy that the game could possibly come down to a choice between him and Glitch.

Making him more likely to vote Glitch and less likely to create a new wagon.

So...if in the next 5 days and the two remaining wagons are Superbowl and Glitch

I'm

making him vote Glitch over himself? If you don't want the wagons to be Glitch/SB then why not start one?

Nah. The post felt like you are locking Glitch vs Superbowl as the only wagons for today.
VOTE: Lapsa I want to see if this wagon will make Lapsa contribute more.

3203 comes before 3041.
Gotcha!

whoopsies my mistake

my point about pointing E-1 being NAI still stands

Nah. I have already broken it.
If he wanted to look towny, why would he push MM after mod confirming there was a mistake? I am not saying that it makes MM town, but he claimed a

vigilante

. That is a self-resolvable role.
Asumming MM is town, scum!Glitch knows MM is town. Why then shade self-resolving role which can shoot you and which is not likely to get lynched today?

VOTE: DDL

Another vague PR claim
UNVOTE:

Intent to hammer

You should probably full-claim.

Why the change of heart?

VOTE: DDL

L-1

---

Spoiler: DDL interacting with scum

And FYI @ shellyc this game is a 16-5 distribution with no third party. Ofc town PRs are gonna be so stacked as mountainous is something like 15-3

that's fine both stanley JV and IKS have significant scum equity for forcing my hand.

IKS also did the double voting business.

shelly goe on and continues not to read nice work

---

Spoiler: shelly interacting with scum

Don't hammer without claim from now on. We have a vigi and don't want to random lynch him/her.

this is IIoA

so they must be a loud babysitter or a loud mafia PR or both glitch and siteflaking are scum

What are your reads?

i dont have any

sorry to disappoint

wtf you have NO READS?
VOTE: DrDolittle

DrDolittle's ISO looks terrible, really terrible. I need to see more from you and this is a pressure vote

DrDolittle / NPOM / one of Stanley and A50 / one of the PR claimers? / NEE?

TR Bell: meta-read, townie attempts to solve
MM: verifiyable claim
Jackson: trying to think of all possibilities is townie, d1 was fairly good
Ydrasse: d1 was alright but I like the d2 start and the townblock attempt
Glitch: scum most likely wouldn't claim a vague PR claim

DDL has done nothing, this isn't a policy lynch: it's limming someone for being apathetic, passive and doesn't even offer anything to us

yeah would def like to hear thoughts because DDL's ISO is trash

WHERE IS YOUR ROLECLAIM

faster hammer this lad this is so scummy

So in this setup we have two strong mystery PRs (asuming glitch and DDL both are telling the truth)? scum must be quite strong as well

I still want you to fullclaim since you'll be killed the way you put it

Jackson why do you not buy the claim?

new readslist
TR superbowl - good posting from a townie mindset, immense effort to direct discussion and scumhunt
Bell - explained in 3355
Ydrasse - explained in 3355
Fwesnid - gunsmith + cop seems a tad too strong and I like fwes' claim more
MM - explained in 3355
Glitch - explained in 3355 + townie mindset posting

new solve NPOM / stanley / DDL / one of the other PR claimers / A50 or hiraki or NEE

depends on whether DDL is real novice cop

if DDL is green jackson is so red

so similar to DDL

siteflaking's ISO looks less terrible than DDL's

siteflaking is a huge null atm to me

will look over the game again at night

Glitch and IKSF, if one of these two are scum then so is the other

wait I don't understand

why is Glitch / Siteflaking a scumpair?

IMO I buy jackson's claim more

novice cop doesn't work with tracker and gunsmith

my vote stays on DDL

put siteflaking into the pool

I think siteflaking claiming PR to defend glitch is indicative of partnership

it isn't that risky of a move

hmmmm

glitch + siteflaking + NEE? lol

considering DDL's lurking and passivity

it would be quite beneficial from scum to bus them for VCA towncred

I went to examine all three flipped scum's styles of interactions with each other to see if I could compare it to how they interacted with the currently alive players. Not sure it was beneficial but I found some interesting stuff from shelly I'll detail in my next post. But for this one:

IKSF shades and votes for both DDL and Lapsa.
DDL has very little to say about his scum teammates but is not shy to slap them with his words.
Shelly freaking bussed the living shit out of DDL. But she stayed pretty chill towards Flake.

Posting before my browser crashes and deletes my progress. It does that sometimes and drives me out of my mind. Continuing to write more.

[Glitch]

Yes please, can Titus and JV please post or link to a concise list of who they visited every night? Here was mine:

N1 --> IKSF (Motion Detect: Positive)
N2 --> Norway (Motion Detect: Positive*)
N3 --> Town Looter (Motion Detect: Positive)
N4 --> Bell (Motion Detect: Positive [died])
N5 --> Ralph (Motion Detect: Negative)
N6 --> Ydrasse (Motion Detect: Positive [died])

*N2 is still unexplained and proves scum have a PR.

[Glitch]

I was hoping I would get more info from my ISO dive of the flipped scum and while their interactions with each other didn't lend themselves favorably to solving this game, I found this quite interesting. Shelly offered 4 solves while she was alive. The first three all had confirmed scum in them, meaning her solves always included at least one scum buddy. I've colored myself town here. See below:

DrDolittle

/

NPOM

/ one of

Stanley and A50

/ one of the PR claimers? /

NEE

?

NPOM

/

stanley

/

DDL

/ one of the other PR claimers /

A50 or hiraki or NEE

glitch

+

siteflaking

+

NEE

? lol

So how interesting is it, that in her last solve presented, she includes five names, all of which I KNOW are town, except Ralph? Did she change her strategy of presenting solves with at least one scum in it? I kind of doubt it. This is just more fuel to the fire to lunch Ralph:

NPOM

/

A50

or

Ralph

/

NEE

or

Glitch

[Glitch]

We're likely looking at Ralph Looter. Looter can't kill Jackson because it outs his clsim as fake.

This would make sense if I understood why Looter's claim and Jackson's claim can't coexist. Stacked town doesn't mean the two remaining scum aren't stacked, especially if you're multitasking.

[Glitch]

Titus, according to your Looter/Ralph solve, this is how you read shelly's no-lim pool here, right?:

{

Ydrasse

,

Bell

,

Glitch

,

Fwesnid

,

Titus

,

Jackson

,

MM

} is my no-lim pool

Do you read this as scum planning since over 1400 posts ago for the final three townies to be any combination of shelly's list here and then she publicizes it here?

[Glitch]

Spoiler: All Flake's interactions with living players

Are these people you want and think that can lynch today?
If yes, why exclude Titus? I find this slot as one of the most null slot in the game.

VOTE: Titus

I confirm Titus is lound.

Flake provided no interactions or information about Looter or JV, and only a tiny bit on Titus. Not what I was hoping. Damn. Going to look at DDL next.

—

Spoiler: DDL’s interactions with living players

Wheres ralph voting

Hmm the only thing I know about this game is that ralph is wrong then

Fuck off I'm not interested in claiming

whatever, vote jackson he's scum for pushing that egregious hammer.

that's fine both stanley JV and IKS have significant scum equity for forcing my hand.

JV did you think the hammer was real

with how much confidence do you think im scum JV such that you are willing to hammer a cop claim

town looter what's your purpose do you want my flip?

can ppl stop claiming prematurely i thought better of you titus

Also it must not have been hammer since they keep posting VC's and stuff. Can voteless people be in a normal?

why don't you just go to the normal wiki page and see if voteless is there instead of doing more useless stuff

No, I am a stickler for accuracy and a game that follows the rules. If you got hammered, you should flip. I would say this as any alignment.

Game integrity is important for me.

you can have a conversation with the list mod then. This is game irrelevant content and it looks like you want to use a technicality to elim me, which of course I'm going to scum read you for it

DDL is very aggressive with his words towards JV, of course because of the counter claim. He is also sharp towards Looter and Titus. He says nothing towards ralph, just about ralph. 1% more scum points for Ralph. Shelly up next. Shelly’s ISO is long. This will take a minute.

—

Spoiler: Shelly’s interactions with all living players

I looked it up on the wiki and babysitter protects someone and if the babysitter dies the targeted player will too

so it's kinda a doc / vig hybrid

claim seems fine at first glance but again I know nothing about setup spec

SJReaver was incredibly townie to me, but shelly is lowkey dissapointing

how am I "disappointing" though

Reading through the last few pages Bell is town (being paranoid about a mod error and showing the right amount of emotion), Jackson is town (trying to find as many possibilities as possible)

how am I "disappointing" though

don't ignore this Jackson

DrDolittle / NPOM / one of Stanley and A50 / one of the PR claimers? / NEE?

TR Bell: meta-read, townie attempts to solve
MM: verifiyable claim
Jackson: trying to think of all possibilities is townie, d1 was fairly good
Ydrasse: d1 was alright but I like the d2 start and the townblock attempt
Glitch: scum most likely wouldn't claim a vague PR claim

wtf just happened
didn't DDL get hammered
imo stanley is about 4th or 5th priority in my lynchpool
jackson's hammer lost town points though

how in the world do we have a gunsmith cop and watcher

I don't fully buy the novice cop claim

jackson why did you "hammer" anyways

pedit: what do you mean nice work.

Btw Jackson is claiming a cop of some sort??

You're very red if they are green, since your claim disproves the other claim from DDL

UNVOTE:
Fuck

does that mean jackson's another cop

what even is JV, full cop?

I'm not a full cop

FOR THE LAST TIME

can you roleclaim? stalling is anti town

because there is basically a cc war between DDL and Jackson

and claiming a vague cop doesn't help

well, I assume that means two Cops

two cops in a game?! bleh i don't feel that's very possible

So we have an even night cop odd night mystery PR, another mystery PR, a gunsmith, a babysitter alive

imo one of {glitch, titus} is very probable scum

the jackson claim was fine to me

His claim solves the cc war

ralph is a huge null

starting a wagon does not give you auto townpasses

New hot take. Shelly is scum.

Incorrect.

how does my post asking glitch to claim make me auto-scum?

New solve

NPOM / A50 or Ralph / NEE or Glitch

pedit please jackson give me the prize

maybe the scumteam is stacked idk

seems a little too many PRs though ngl

who did you babysit last night titus?

YESSSS

THEY ARE ODD-NIGHT SOMETHING EVEN-NIGHT COP

haven't heard much from titus really

i buy the babysitter claim but I want to see more content

NPOM claimed

TITUS GIVE YOU VCA!

i like fwes' readslist a lot

Bell feels pretty town but i think hiraki could feasibly be scum here

limpool {NPOM, stanley, NEE, A50, Hiraki, Looter} in order of preference

{Ydrasse, Bell, Glitch, Fwesnid, Titus, Jackson, MM} is my no-lim pool

another reason why I TR titus is I buy the babysitter claim

If Titus is town, we're good have faith in me.
If Titus is scum, mafia cannot kill me as they have to keep their claim.

I support this post since he seems to think it’s a good idea.

doesn't killing babysitter kill Jackson as well then?

shelly was a big advocate of mass claim and pushed Jackson at least 4 times by my count for a full claim. She wasn't 100% certain he was cop but

thought

he was. She was hardcore rolefishing, and if JV is scum, that makes it to where she had to be performing some serious scum theater. She sure did bus her teammates but she wasn't SRing Jackson. She was pushing, pushing, pushing him for a claim. That's scummy AF for shelly to do and is quite possibly one of the strongest reasons that makes me lean to believe JV's claim is true.

[Glitch]

N3: Mm

Had MM already claimed vig at this time? I can't remember anything lol.

[Glitch]

Titus, according to your Looter/Ralph solve, this is how you read shelly's no-lim pool here, right?:

{

Ydrasse

,

Bell

,

Glitch

,

Fwesnid

,

Titus

,

Jackson

,

MM

} is my no-lim pool

Do you read this as scum planning since over 1400 posts ago for the final three townies to be any combination of shelly's list here and then she publicizes it here?

Can you rephrase this? My brain fog is blocking me from understanding.

Shelly provided a list of people she wanted to stay alive.
You suggested the solve may be Ralph and Looter.
Shelly's list included everyone currently alive except Ralph and Looter.

If that's the case, do you think shelly's no-lim list is a pool of the town players that scum wanted to be in the endgame?
Do you believe that shelly would make this "no-lim" list without any scum in the list?

[Glitch]

N3: Mm

Had MM already claimed vig at this time? I can't remember anything lol.

He had claimed in response to being wagoned.

Interesting.
Why would scum!Titus babysit the vig? Y'all help me out. My SR on Titus is slowly slipping away.

[Glitch]

If ralph is scum, titus is clear btw due to the motion detect

If ralph is scum, titus is clear btw due to the motion detect

Or in other words they're a SvT at the most unless titus is multitasking

pedit: Glitch motion detected ralph didn't they? That means they didn't visit and Titus is loud so we know who they visited. Both confirmed that they didn't kill (unless multitasking or ninja) and thus cannot be scum together.

I didn't really think of ninja tbh

This is nagging at me.

Here JV effectively confirm's Titus' visit. I didn't understand it at the time, because we didn't know JV was visited - it only makes sense if you know Titus used their night activity.

The bit I don't like is I think Town!JV would have confirmed Titus' visit, where as in a scum JV/Titus team, the visit would have been planned and JV would have known about it in advance, and it may not of been front of mind.

That is, I think:

Town!JV would've said "I got visited by Titus last night, and therefore Titus/Ralph team is impossible without multi-tasking"
Scum!JV would've made the posts above.

Given what you are saying about Ralph's VCA Glitch and given the incredible power of JV's role (which doesn't seem to stack up) I am feeling about 60/40 in favour of Scum!JV right now.

I looked back at my old notes, and funnily enough was SRing JV in the first part of the game. They started sounding very towny around page 60-70ish iirc, but I wonder if I was onto something here.

Still haven't done a ISO and full association analysis, I have been busy at work so only don reactive and mechanical thinking - but will get stuck into the ISOs this weekend.

TBH this post makes me lean a little less town on Looter. This is such a stretch. Criticizing the way that JV informed the rest of us that he was visited by Titus seems like the kind of grasping for straws that I have to do when I'm scum and am running out of ways to smear town.

I'm just really confused right now and don't know who to believe. Ralph has to be scum. I just don't know who his partner is yet.

I'm running out of steam and don't have much left right now. I'll be waiting for Ralph to come back from V/LA. But I am prepared to vote Ralph at this point and will do so unless he return with some remarkable comeback.

[Glitch]

I did some thinking while off-site because this was getting really stressful for me. I think Titus is probably just Town because they would need to be multitasking for them to be able to babysit and for ralph to not do the kill. Although Titus DID ask the mod if scum can be multitasking in thread which seems incredibly manipulative into making me think "Titus is conf town because no multiasking" like something I would do as scum.

I'll give looter and titus an ISO dive soon I think

Literally flawless insta-win except if Titus is multitasking.

[Glitch]

It also presumes I 100% TR you and you 100% TR me. Good thing is I think both are the case. Particularly after casing shelly pr hunting you so hard.

[Glitch]

Honestly I think Ralph is purposefully stalling because they’ve realised they’ve lost

This would be scummy if Ralph were even 1% towny or if you were even 1% scummy but neither of those are true. I want to wait on Ralph not because he may change my mind but because what he says may help us root out the other scum.

[Glitch]

Ralph if you're town you need to do the following:

1) Provide a full list of reads on every living player with full explanation
2) Respond to all questions and accusations we have made
3) Town case yourself

[Glitch]

I know how frustrating it is to be town heavily scumread by other town and I do not strive to try to demotivate you but I am just being honest with reads here. I am heavily SRing you but haven't cast a vote yet because I am willing to hear you out. That's why I gave you a list of things that I want you to respond to. Answering those things is pro-Town whether or not you get eliminated.

[Glitch]

And tbf I started the day with some polarized reads. My too SR was Ralph and my too TR was Looter. Those reads both shifted. Titus became my primary SR and then it shifted back to you. And JV became my top TR.

A strong read on you does not mean it cannot change. But I need to hear your thoughts if I want to consider adjusting reads.

[Glitch]

I did some thinking while off-site because this was getting really stressful for me. I think Titus is probably just Town because they would need to be multitasking for them to be able to babysit and for ralph to not do the kill. Although Titus DID ask the mod if scum can be multitasking in thread which seems incredibly manipulative into making me think "Titus is conf town because no multiasking" like something I would do as scum.

I'll give looter and titus an ISO dive soon I think

Literally flawless insta-win except if Titus is multitasking.

Doesn't the instawin require I do nothing anyway? So seeing me move would be a scumclaim?

No this is JV proposing the solve is Ralph/Looter based on results from last night. It is 100% accurate if:

1) I'm town
2) JV is town
3) You're not multi tasking scum

I believe #1 and #2 but am still heavily questioning #3.

[Glitch]

If you are not multi tasking then Looter and Ralph are scum.

Or JV is crazy good scum and deserves a medal.

[Glitch]

Yes. But if Titus is scum she could just kill me and then we won't get results the next day. And if Titus isn't scum and we try this plan scum will kill me to make Titus look like scum. The only way is for you to protect me but then scum would kill you. If you're willing to make that sacrifice then we may have a solution. You protect me. I investigate Titus. Titus doesn't move at night. If Titus is scum, she won't be able to make a kill or she will have to and I will detect it. If she is town then scum will kill you because you're protecting me. Or they'll kill Titus if she is town.

This is all presuming we flip ralph today and he's scum and then Looter or Titus are the last one. If you're scum JV... well shit that's a lot of mechanics I have to figure out. Shit.

If you're scum that would mean you would kill me if Titus is your partner. Or you would kill Titus if Looter is your partner and then next day it's a battle between you and looter for my vote.

Ugh.

I'm town reading you enough for now to roll with the plan. If anything strange happens and you're still alive tomorrow it will probably be some scum points but we'll see

[Glitch]

JV Protects Glitch
Titus and Looter do no action (in case looter is a secret town PR for some bs reason)
Glitch chooses between Titus and Looter.

That way I am forced to die if scum wants to kill anyone, and if they do you will catch the killer.

This way no matter if scum is Titus or Looter you will solve it.

Also the bolded I am confused at my own writing. If Looter is claiming a role they're not, and is town and can visit. Please don't as that will get you lynched tomorrow. It's the best of all worlds if the town in Titus/Looter doesn't do anything tonight. If you're still unsure why or have an issue with those actions let me know.

I agree with this plan. Its not flawless but we will discuss the rest tomorrow.

[Glitch]

I feel lonely here by myself

I'm trying real hard to be patient waiting on Ralph and Looter. Were it not elo I would try to move the day forward already but it is too risky to do so without every bit of info we can.

[Glitch]

If the entire game's outcome hinges on me as the swing vote I'm going to feel so underqualified lol.

If you're scum stop rushing me.
If you're town don't give up on me. I know it's hard to wait but Ralph said he would be back today.

[Glitch]

Your post does not convince me to abandon the plan and I will explain why tomorrow. But I want to hear your case on scum JV.

[Glitch]

Actually there is one scenario where the motion detecting is useful: If JV is scum and you don't tell us who you are going to detect

and

there is a night kill. In that scenario you have a 50% chance of getting a useful result as long as Titus does not use their PR.

This interests me though. I wonder what JVs thoughts are.

[Glitch]

@MM, are you just a vigi that can shoot every night? Or is it X-shot or something. Curious


Also real vigi don't claim

I can shoot every night. I also have

something else

that you don't have to know lol.

Multitasking is not a thing in normals.

hmm

[Glitch]

If Titus is multi-tasking that post is a

borderline

unethical and I don't get that feeling from Titus.
Damn why can't I get a solid SR on anyone!!!

[Glitch]

Actually there is one scenario where the motion detecting is useful: If JV is scum and you don't tell us who you are going to detect

and

there is a night kill. In that scenario you have a 50% chance of getting a useful result as long as Titus does not use their PR.

This interests me though. I wonder what JVs thoughts are.

If I am scum, I am assuming you mean that in extension I am bussing my partner today otherwise this makes no sense. Would you be able to explain how this math works because I am not entirely sure I understand it sorry

Yes. Assuming ralph is scum we eliminate today, Titus stays home tonight. If anyone is loud visited by Titus they come out the next day saying so and we eliminate Titus because she's scum for not cooperating with the plan to find scum. That leaves me to wifom between you and Looter. And then-- oh shit hold up. Then it's either:

If I check Looter:
1) Looter is scum and performs NK and I catch him
2) Looter is scum and performs no NK
3) Looter is not scum and there is a NK so JV is scum
4) Looter is not scum and there is no NK (if motion detection is positive then wat)

If I check JV:
1) JV is scum and kills me so there are no results to discuss the next day
2) JV is scum and does no NK
3) JV is scum and performs NK and I catch him

There is no reason to investigate JV. If he is town he will move. If he is scum he will move. I have to pick between you and Titus. If I check Titus:

1) Titus is scum and does not move and does not NK.
2) Titus is scum and performs NK and I receive a guilty.
3) Titus is scum and babysitter but not multitasking and babysits against the plan and comes up with a story the next day and I detect motion
4) Titus is scum and babysitter and multitasking and NKs someone and babysits someone else and then comes up with a story the next day to explain why she didn't follow the plan and wanted to protect whoever she babysat just in case and I detect that motion
5) Titus is town and stays still and I detect no motion and there is no NK
6) Titus is town and stays still and I detect no motion and there is a NK

SHIT

[Glitch]

Looter, are you willing to vote Ralph?
Titus, are you willing to vote Ralph?

[Glitch]

Agree.

[Glitch]

The way all 4 of us are so on board with this is to be expected and yet makes me wonder what scum is up to.

[Glitch]

Watch the scum PR be a roleblocker and they target me

[Glitch]

this is the most mafia indicative thing though . he is now casting shade on glitche's alignment while talking to me . like hes trying to make me doubt glitched alignment when he should be most sus of me . this makes me think its jack + loots
in the second quite there he says "do you see my point now?" like he fully belives i didnt know flakes was scum . not knowing flakes was scum is either a massive townslip or faking it cuse im scum! he should think im faking it or at least have SOME doubt since im his top suspect but he takes it completely genuinely and accepts i didnt know . even asking me if i get what he was talkin about now . this is scumjack talking to me like he knkows im town cuse i am and he's scum

But in what way is scum Jack telling town you that flake was scum, and that means he is shading me? I don't get the part about how him doing that was shading me.

[Glitch]

@Ralph I skimmed the first post. Me being nice and actively giving you a chance when I was SRing you and also trying to see if you slip up somewhere is not scum!ai.

Also I would have survived the night because the protectives were on each other and if you're scum buddies with Titus you just slipped there. I will do a whole quote thing with that when I get the chance give me a seconderino

If you and Titus are scum together you deserve a medal for your cooperating fake claim genius move

[Glitch]

whiteknight

Can someone define this term in context of mafia please?

[Glitch]

titus jack glitch talk to me on whether you udnerstnat this hammer/l-1 case . its clear as day to me but if you dont see it PLEASE talk to me . im just gonna assume youre all towm for now cuse the main focus for me should be getting this point acrtoss and getting jack limmed

I am trying hard to understand but I dont. Can you concisely summarize it? I want to understand and not just dismiss it as "omg ralph is scum so he's making bad arguments." I want to get it before I determine my thoughts on it.

What makes JV scummy by accidentally mistaking the vote count and declaring L1?

[Glitch]

Who was JV trying to get a reaction out of?