Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: Key

I kind of think both are scummy. Why is Key a better vote than Performer. Because of the claim?

[AlmostNancy]

ok guys i just had a really tinfoily idea that might be total bs but it makes sense in my head rn

varsoon said that the zerg mind control humans to do their bidding. what if the zerg is scum/sk and that is their ability, to control a terran player and have them perform the kill.
so a zerg mind controlled creature to kill irre and then creature got pgo'd

That would be wild.

But what you’re forgetting is that Creature was Even night vig, not Odd night, so that theory is impossible.

[AlmostNancy]

why are you complaining about people lynching you over perf when you arent voting perf yourself mew?

Okay, yup. Now I can only phone post while tired while skitter can obviously come up with something especially if they give themselves a 5000 word directive to follow in every response post. So I'll keep it short and sweet - if they can't answer that question without loading it with a bunch of BS, I see no reason for me to be anything but continually apathetic about the game state.

Xtoxm has a good point. Why aren’t you voting Performer if you think he’s scummy?

[AlmostNancy]

In short, Key's scum because he's more passive, more non-committal, less analytical, and less aggressive than he is as town. The main points:

1. He's doing the typical scum thing of popping in just enough to avoid too much suspicion. As town, Key is usually actively engaged in moving the game forward with aggressive questioning. As scum, Key tends to be much less aggressive. This game fits his scum meta when it comes to levels of engagement, passivity, and aggression.

2. He's more non-committal than I've ever seen him as town. He constantly posts "maybe X but maybe not" posts, which don't actually take a clear position about anything. He constantly calls things "interesting" instead of taking a meaningful position about them (this is actually a scum tell for a surprisingly large number of players, specifically calling lots of things "interesting," "weird," "odd," etc., - probably an unconscious attempt to avoid scum telling by revealing as little information as possible about one's perspective). The point is that Key's not taking clear positions in the way he usually do as town.

3. He's been speculating about third party or "solo scum" more than feels natural for town. For example, rather than push on Creature as mafia, he pushes Creature as "third party." When he says that Performer's "probably town," he notes that Performer "could be solo scum." It feels like Key's looking for third party rather than mafia, which suggests he's operating from an informed perspective about who the mafia are. While town sometimes look for third party, or think a player looks like third party, it's rare that town start speculating about multiple players as third party while calling those players "probably town."

4. He's been pushing a scum agenda by trying to challenge our townreads from taking hold. He pushed on Irrelephant (obvious town), the worst (obvious town), and then supported both Varsoon/Xtom for questioning the early townreads. This is out of character for town Key, who in both games I've seen gave out lots of early townreads and didn't show anything close to the level of irrational paranoia he's had this game about early townreads. In American Presidents, we had just as many early townreads as this game and Key was one of the players giving them out. In schadd's game, same. What's different in this game? If anything, players were town telling harder than in those other games. Yet Key's reacting differently? That's a sign of a change in perspective & win condition.

VOTE: Key

[AlmostNancy]

Really important shit if I die tonight, but I'm sure you numbskulls will completely not listen to me:

Performer is very likely scum with that claim.
If Kokichi isn't confirmed as town, he is confirmed as scum.
Look really really close at what I've posted today. It'll serve as your roadmap to scum.
Don't let this be another TAZ.

You think Performer should be today’s lynch?

[AlmostNancy]

3. He's been speculating about third party or "solo scum" more than feels natural for town. For example, rather than push on Creature as mafia, he pushes Creature as "third party." When he says that Performer's "probably town," he notes that Performer "could be solo scum." It feels like Key's looking for third party rather than mafia, which suggests he's operating from an informed perspective about who the mafia are. While town sometimes look for third party, or think a player looks like third party, it's rare that town start speculating about multiple players as third party while calling those players "probably town.".

I have been hunting group scum/mafia Shoshin.

But many actions, I.e if we look at Performer I don’t see as group scum: the early quickhammer, the ease of his wagon today (I personally like his claim as town, a bulletproof in this setup in rational because of the many killing powers (groupmafia, vig? other scum) plus the linking of him and Relly’s death is lazy, I could see why groupscum would want him out the picture today.

Plus, there is a real fear that Koki desperately wanted to get to N2 to perform their even night scum power: I am fearing 3 deaths tonight.

Why would there be 3 deaths tonight rather than 2?

[AlmostNancy]

The guys who I want dead: Mit, Koki & Mew, I wouldn’t bank on being a gamesolve, but I feel like there is scum in here.

...and Skitter is a town lean read I feel dirty about. They are actually a green read I would actually lynch today if that makes sense.

No, it actually doesn’t make sense. Why would you lynch a townread?

[AlmostNancy]

Guys please unvote, I’m an informed town gunsmith.

UNVOTE:

[AlmostNancy]

Before anyone asks, that unannounced L-1 by AlNan is also scummy.

@Key: you should probably claim, in case someone decides to silence you pre-emptively.

How? I didn’t even know it was L-1?

[AlmostNancy]

If everyone who called an unannounced L-1 scummy this game would explain why it's scummy I'd be such a happy ducky

Especially, if know one tells you, it’s at L-2 BEFORE you vote.

VOTE: Mewtaph

[AlmostNancy]

Spoiler:

[AlmostNancy]

Keys have you claimed your informed information? I can't find it

No, not yet. Do you think I should?

[AlmostNancy]

acrually it might be smart for you to confirm the flavour you know about as that might help with holistic setup solv9ng or when massclaim stuff goes down it will probably help

You know

Are you talking to me?

No that was at Nancy

Have you claimed the thing you're informed abut?

I may have crumbed it, however.

[AlmostNancy]

yeah okay thar makes sense.. any reason you didn't outright claim this earlier? do you know anything else?

I should have D1. I figured I had to once A50 made that crumb but I should have D1, for obvious reasons.

[AlmostNancy]

yeah okay thar makes sense.. any reason you didn't outright claim this earlier? do you know anything else?

I’ve already told you all I know. All I know is the flavour name of one of the players in this game. I know no additional info regarding that flavour - either alignment, role, etc.

[AlmostNancy]

yeah okay thar makes sense.. any reason you didn't outright claim this earlier? do you know anything else?

I should have D1. I figured I had to once A50 made that crumb but I should have D1, for obvious reasons.

Sorry Nancy you're OK. I'm mostly talking to Keyser atm. I can't hold two conversations very well online after drinking

Oh sorry, I just reread your posts.

I’m stone cold sober, so I haven’t any excuse.

[AlmostNancy]

yeah okay thar makes sense.. any reason you didn't outright claim this earlier? do you know anything else?

I’ve already told you all I know. All I know is the flavour name of one of the players in this game. I know no additional info regarding that flavour - either alignment, role, etc.

Right now I'm thinking if you don't claim it and aren't alive to claim it later, we might potentially lose out on a soft!IC. like if your role pm confirms a specific Terran good dude is in the game for instance then whenever massclaim happens we'll know that's a flavour and not a fakeclaim if that makes sense?

or if it's like, idk starcraft Voldemort or some shit then we know theres scum with that flavour and idk this situation isn't as helpful

I feel liek it might be better for you to confirm the name of the flavour Thars confirmed to you, but not for us to mass flavourclaim until like maybe LyLo?

someone else should weigh in on this before we take any action tho bc my brain might be jumping the shark

Yeah, but how can I be IC pre-flip?

[AlmostNancy]

P.edit. I mean, prior to either the player in question confirming their flavour or that flavour flipping?

[AlmostNancy]

if a third party's only enemy is a role that gets guilties on like probably most kinds of scum and also a town PGO and also a town vig I acrually don't think it's too bizarre. I'm not even 1% surprised to see a gunsmith in this setup, I just can't work through the informed bit right now

Well, our role doesn’t even know the alignment of said flavour - maybe if I knew anything about Starcraft?

[AlmostNancy]

Yeah, but how can I be IC pre-flip?

Not you--the flavour yiu know about

Like Lers say you're informed and know Terran Joe is a flavour in the game and then let's say you die at night. when we hit LyLo IF you've confirmed jtt that Terran Joe is a flavour in the game and he hasn't flipped yet, then whoever has that flavour is confirmed town I think?

Yeah, I can confirm that this flavour is a REAL one, so if no one has claimed it in LYLO and someone claims a fake one, then I suppose?

[AlmostNancy]

I'm not convinced this claim is town indicative and I feel like I'm missing pieces of the bigger picture.. I think I need to sleep on this and probably talk to Nauci

I thought it was NAI but I found some more info and anyway, if the flavour isn’t town, then I think I should definitely not crumb or claim it.

Until after they flip.

[AlmostNancy]

Yeah, but how can I be IC pre-flip?

Not you--the flavour yiu know about

Like Lers say you're informed and know Terran Joe is a flavour in the game and then let's say you die at night. when we hit LyLo IF you've confirmed jtt that Terran Joe is a flavour in the game and he hasn't flipped yet, then whoever has that flavour is confirmed town I think?

Yeah, I can confirm that this flavour is a REAL one, so if no one has claimed it in LYLO and someone claims a fake one, then I suppose?

If someone does claim it in LyLo they're probably conftown and if someone doesn't claim it in LyLo it's probably a lockscum flavour, yeah.

I don’t think I had a clue about the significance of the flavour and I think I might now. :/

[AlmostNancy]

But I shouldn’t assume I have any idea how Krazy designed this setup, so, I’m just probably paranoid and freaking myself out unnecessarily.

Last time I join any game, without having any clue about how flavour impacts a game.

[AlmostNancy]

I mean it's generally impossible to know whether or not not it jmpacts the game so.. it is what it is

also I've only been skimming the super flavour heavy discussions tbqh so I would prefer to defer to Nauci and Varsoon

Well based on what I just read, I think the best use of this info. is as a confiirming of real flavour or a debunking of fake flavour.

I keep reading contradictory things about it anyway, so who knows what it really implies beyond that?

Like you can find up to 5 or more interpretations of a particular character in Starcraft. Who the hell knows which one my flavour refers to, right?

[AlmostNancy]

I just had this crazy theory, that town should never flavour claim in this game and that a scum flip, is going to break the game, wide open.

I won’t elaborate on this anymore until D3.

[AlmostNancy]

That’s what I get for only reading part of an article. D’oh. Scaring myself for no good reason at all.

[AlmostNancy]

For the record, I don't think performer's claim clears him at all.

^notice how hard Nauci is working to save Performer

You think they’re linked?

Something's going on. There's no reason for there to be this much opposition to Perf's lynch.

UNVOTE:

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: Performer

[AlmostNancy]

WHY IS THERE SO MUCH RESISTENCE TO BOTH OF THESE WAGONS

I FEEL LIKE SURELY WE MUST HAVE WAGONED SCJM AR SOME POINT TOFAY BUT THINGS KEEP COMING UP

HELP

Resistance usually means scum is opposing it. That’s one of the many reasons I thought NM would be a mislynch. Too many people were okay with it.

[AlmostNancy]

I'm actually starting to think Nancy is probably town tho which is handy

Ditto.

[AlmostNancy]

I'm actually starting to think Nancy is probably town tho which is handy

Ditto.

I should hope you're townreading yourself!

You know that’s NOT what I meant.

[AlmostNancy]

With the Perf/Keys/Mewt swinging and constant wagon interruptions I swear there has to be some scumfuckery going on.

Shoshin's case on Keyser is on point and I want to vote there but I feel like there's probably a mechanical reason not to right now.

Perf's claim is wolfy and he looks wolfy but he always looks wolfy bur from a gamestate point of view it definitely makes sense for him to be a wolf who the scumteam doesn't want lynched. or otherwise he might be town and maybe other people are stuck in this same weird conundrum I am where I don't trust myself to get this read completely right anyway.

by reads and in a vacuum (if I were a 1 shot dayvig type deal) I think I would just outright prefer a Mewt lynch if only for the fact I'm having such a hard time having a confident read on him

But my reads lately have been quite intensely bad and I'm not really trusting myself to navigate this right and it's frustrating as hell

2 days in a row, Performer has been close to getting lynched and suddenly, the wagon just collasped. Kind of similar with Mewtaph and today, Key but his claim seems more believable. \_0_/

[AlmostNancy]

Key N1 result? Are you odd/even night or full power?

I checked Creature.

Odd night.

@Varsoon, Creature was Even night vig.

Would scum!Key claim to have checked dead town?

Like wouldn’t that be stupid if there’s no tracker?

[AlmostNancy]

I think the performer push has kinda run its course at this point; Varsoon, Mitillos, tell me about your view of d2 xtoxm

So, was that wagon some kind of reaction test then or what?

[AlmostNancy]

I don't think Performer's lying about his BP claim, so why would Performer would scum claim BP here?

VOTE: Performer

A) What changed?

B) And how often have you heard of straight town bp role?

[AlmostNancy]

Wait hold on are you saying we're missing a nk?

Oh

Oh damn

Hmm it's possible

It's also possible

there's an infested terran with a gun

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd not even considered the possibility of a kill having been prevented because 3 killers n1 is absurd and creature didn't die by PGO

Wrt the bolded. Come again?

Zerg had the ability to infest Terran units and turn them into essentially zombie Zerg units. An infested terran has the ability to use guns instead of claws.

The flavors thus far have all been obviously good guys in the lore and the medic had an obvious correlation with the role so I'm pretty against flavor claiming.

I’m pretty sure this game isn’t bastard though.

I don't think it's an ability in this mafia game, no

But I'm saying that characters can be of the Zerg faction with terran guns if they are infested terran characters, like Admiral Stukov

What flavours would Zergs have, if infested terran?

[AlmostNancy]

Well town bp, isn’t a common role.

Is it not? I feel like I have seen it in >4 games of my ~15 here

I’ve never gotten that role, outside as an addition to my role or as a leveling up/DnD type of thing. In Overkill 1, 3P Mala was lyncher and full bp as well.

[AlmostNancy]

In a 15p game a mislynch today could result in lylo tomorrow

How come you're not trying to game solve today, xtoxm? I had you even as a town lean yesterday because I thought you did put in some work but it feels like you've sat back a lot today flying under the radar

We could have LYLO tomorrow? Already?

I think there could be up to 4 anti town, with at least 2 kills at night

Which means we could be 8 vs 4 right now. If we mislynch, we'd be 5v4 tomorrow

It's almost fortunate that there's no vig now because if creature missed idk what we'd do lol

I mean with 3 TPR flipped idk if there were a lot of tpr to balance scum numbers

Hopefully there are only 3 anti town roles and we're 9v3 right now

I think the power balance is tempered by the odd/even thing.

[AlmostNancy]

if a third party's only enemy is a role that gets guilties on like probably most kinds of scum and also a town PGO and also a town vig I acrually don't think it's too bizarre. I'm not even 1% surprised to see a gunsmith in this setup, I just can't work through the informed bit right now

Also on cops and FBI agents according to the wiki? I didn't realize that serial killers

do not

have guns until just now.

Oh man it'd have been hilarious if Irrelephant survived through his 2 shots of pgo and got red checked by a gunsmith and mislynched

Not specifically because it's Irrelephant but because setup lulz

So, anyone Key investigates cannot be SK then.

[AlmostNancy]

if a third party's only enemy is a role that gets guilties on like probably most kinds of scum and also a town PGO and also a town vig I acrually don't think it's too bizarre. I'm not even 1% surprised to see a gunsmith in this setup, I just can't work through the informed bit right now

Well, our role doesn’t even know the alignment of said flavour - maybe if I knew anything about Starcraft?

If you just claim it then we just need group knowledge

Nah, not after what I just recently read, I think that’s a bad idea but it should definitely be useful in the future. When we get the first scumflip, you’ll understand why it’s pointless for me to claim it att.

[AlmostNancy]

I'm not convinced this claim is town indicative and I feel like I'm missing pieces of the bigger picture.. I think I need to sleep on this and probably talk to Nauci

I'd be so amused if Keyser is a scum gunsmith

But the 3rd party he was told about shot creature

Also serial killers not having guns is throwing me for a loop

Does it maybe not apply this game because it's a themed non normal

We don’t know that for sure, do we? Why are you so sure that there isn’t an odd night scumdoc?

[AlmostNancy]

What flavours would Zergs have, if infested terran?

https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Categ ... characters

Sorry, sc2 plot spoilers lie within

So, could infested terran be scum or SK? And could there be possible flavours with varying states of infestation?

[AlmostNancy]

Nah, not after what I just recently read, I think that’s a bad idea but it should definitely be useful in the future. When we get the first scumflip, you’ll understand why it’s pointless for me to claim it att.

Hopefully you'll still be alive

Well, that’s the only way our role is useful I’d imagine, so no point in tipping off scum - to give them info to CC.

[AlmostNancy]

P.edit because the REAL _____ will claim first and scum won’t be able to beat them to it.

[AlmostNancy]

@MOD: The dead PGO and Vigilante say they have 'bullet' flavor. What would their kills have looked like if they happened? What would be written?

All kills with bullet flavor will have the same flavor so there would be no difference.

@Mod,

Are there any kills in the game, which don’t have bullet flavour?

Nobody maj, until we know the answer to this question.

[AlmostNancy]

@AN Yes, informed scum can exist. How have you not seen one before?

No, the only informed scum I’ve ever heard of was Mafia Traitor.

[AlmostNancy]

P.edit because the REAL _____ will claim first and scum won’t be able to beat them to it.

Unless of course, my flavour claim flips first. Then my role will become completely useless.

[AlmostNancy]

Did Key claim flavor?

No.

Maybe this is like American Presidents where town basically did catch multiple scum early but kept thinking that only one of the competing wagons could be scum instead of that all of the candidates were

This is my sense. I don't see resistance to the Performer/Mew wagons, just a lot of movement from townies trying to choose the highest percentage lynch.

This is a pretty reasonable take; I feel less frustrated now. The Xtoxm pop-in to remind us all to lynch Performer not Mew kind of threw me out of orbit....

P.edit because the REAL _____ will claim first and scum won’t be able to beat them to it.

Yeah I didn't think about this; the flavour massclaim thing works a lot better if it's done the day before LyLo I guess (assuming IC flavour is always cc'd at least once in LyLo)

Exactly. And that page Nauci linked me to could become useful, to see if any scumflips correlate or not with infested terran. If not, then maybe there aren’t any in this game?

[AlmostNancy]

WHY IS THERE SO MUCH RESISTENCE TO BOTH OF THESE WAGONS

I FEEL LIKE SURELY WE MUST HAVE WAGONED SCJM AR SOME POINT TOFAY BUT THINGS KEEP COMING UP

HELP

Resistance usually means scum is opposing it. That’s one of the many reasons I thought NM would be a mislynch. Too many people were okay with it.

Are you even paying attention? Question goes to xtox too.

"resistance" to my wagon?

Wow.

Clearly people dont seem to be paying attention to how many people are fine with my wagon.

The point was that there was virtually no resistance to NM wagon and now, we know why.

[AlmostNancy]

@Mewtaph, what’s your role and flavour? Kthanx

[AlmostNancy]

I'm gonna try and sleep again but just in case the day suddenly ends... just a reminder Kokichi should be the lynch tomorrow if he isn't literally confirmed town

Also

If purportedly town gunsmith isn't killed, with our even night doctor dead...

The more I mull on it the more I feel like it could easily be scum gunsmith

So, Key is self-resolving.

[AlmostNancy]

@Mewtaph, what’s your role and flavour? Kthanx

Nova.

Wtf is a Nova and what’s your flavour?

[AlmostNancy]

Well town bp, isn’t a common role.

Is it not? I feel like I have seen it in >4 games of my ~15 here

I don't think Performer's lying about his BP claim, so why would Performer would scum claim BP here?

VOTE: Performer

A) What changed?

B) And how often have you heard of straight town bp role?

I once was a town bp with something in a large normal years ago - forgot what the modifier(s) was/were.

There was also something like a town doctor bulletproof which we thought was insane, in a 14-player game hosted by bbmolla iirc. We ended up not believing it because it sounded insane, I was much less experienced, we ended up lynching it, and we lost. That was also a large normal , and it had 2 scum vigilantes.

What’s your modifier?

[AlmostNancy]

I don't disbelieve Keyser's claim for a second I'm just not sure it's a town claim....

Yeah...

Hey Keyser what's your flavor

Character is Michael Liberty

Performer, Mewtaph, same question.

[AlmostNancy]

Votecount 2.6

Performer

(4)

~

Xtoxm

(28),

Mitillos

(11),

Mewtaph

(26),

AlmostNancy

(200)

Mewtaph

(4)

~

skitter30

(33),

the worst

(104),

Performer

(35),

Nauci

(128)

Keyser Söze

(3)

~

Kokichi Oma

(39),

Shoshin

(59),

Varsoon

(55)


Not Voting (1):

Keyser Söze

(31)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2018-12-23 13:57:08)

the vc as colored by my reads
i'll switch to keyser i guess but the performer wagon is quite awful

Nice shade. Outside of Mafia, red is a very flattering colour on me.

[AlmostNancy]

I am 1-shot Bp, flavor of Bunkered SCV.

Isn’t SCV a bad thing in Starcraft?

[AlmostNancy]

Key, what're your current reads?

Something like this:

Soshin
TW
Nauci

Performer
Varsoon
Xtoxm

I probably wouldn’t lynch anyone above here today————-

ANancy
Skitter

Mew
Mit
Koki

If you’re really a gs, feel free to check us tonight.

[AlmostNancy]

“Shaky?”
It’s the truth.

1. I don’t think I’ve been “scummy”, perhaps disappointing or underwhelming but not scummy.
2. It’s Krazy’s game. Take it up with him.
3. Nothing to do with me or my alignment.
4. I don’t care Varsoon. Again has nothing to do with my alignment this game.
5. I didn’t expect him to be Nk’d. He was in my immediate PoE to investigate.
6. Scum-me would have fakeclaimed a result instead of being connected to a dead townie.
7. I’ll quote the posts later, and my trajectories. But all this post-evaluation is pointless. It’s meaningless work. Do you really want to dig up D1 and tell you all my detailed thought processes why I investigated a flipped townie?

Well, I actually already argued #6, so how am I anywhere in your would lynch line?

[AlmostNancy]

In post 2, Krazy wrote:
Flips:

Flips may in some cases include the kill action type.

Flips will include the role PM with any "Informed" status content redacted

and all PT links removed.

Flips will NOT include fake role PMs supplied to anti-town factions, only their real PM.

So, town won’t know that we’re informed and what we’re informed about after we die? That sucks. :/

[AlmostNancy]

So, town won’t know that we’re informed and what we’re informed about after we die? That sucks. :/

The full role name, including the word "informed" will be revealed for players with "informed" in the role name, if any exist in this game.

What the slot is informed of will not be revealed.

Well, glad our role will get confirmed, not thrilled that our info won’t be. Short of an actual flip or LYLO, it is pretty much pointless to prematurely claim it. :/

[AlmostNancy]

I am 1-shot Bp, flavor of Bunkered SCV.

Isn’t SCV a bad thing in Starcraft?

No, SCVs are the worker units for the Terran.
You wouldn't put SCVs in a Bunker--usually that's where you put your marines so that they can hold a choke point more readily. It's like a defensive tower that has to be destroyed before the units inside can be hurt, but anyone inside can attack those outside.

SCVs don't attack, though, and literally only serve two purposes:
Mining and building.

However, the SCV in a bunker is so novel that I don't doubt it's something that the mod put in the game--Jury's just out on whether that's a fake claim or not.

I guess you and Nauci would be the experts on that.

[AlmostNancy]

ive decided the way keyser went about his claim looks very town

sup drunkposting btw.

What do you think of Mewtaph’s claim and he neglected the flavour part of the question entirely.

Btw, can anyone tell me wtf a nova is anyhow?

[AlmostNancy]

i wiki'd Nova and it seems to be one of the main characters. could be a safeclaim so i dont see anything to read into that. did mew role claim? if so i didnt see

@Mewtaph, what’s your role and flavour? Kthanx

Nova.

Oh I thought that was some role, so I looked it up on Mafia Wiki and the closest thing I could find was something called, “diginova” and I was trying to figure our exactly wtf that was.

[AlmostNancy]

Nancy ive been wondering. how the fuck do you swap between all these different accounts so quickly? do you have like 5 different devices logged into them

I use multiple browsers, including Discord and try to remember to always save my passwords.

You know, I’m really not at liberty to further comment on this.

[AlmostNancy]

He omitted claiming his role

Yeah, kind of sketchy.

Out of Key, Performer and Mew, he is doing the least to advance the game.

ive decided the way keyser went about his claim looks very town

sup drunkposting btw.

What do you think of Mewtaph’s claim and he neglected the flavour part of the question entirely.

Btw, can anyone tell me wtf a nova is anyhow?

Main character for Terran in sc2. Good side.

She's a sniper whose suit can turn her invisible.

Didn’t Mitillos hardclaim no ninjas in this setup?

[AlmostNancy]

UNVOTE:

I don’t want to rush this. I want to hear more about Mewtaph’s role first.

[AlmostNancy]

I also want to know why Mewtaph claimed a flavour that can be invisible, because that could, possibly correlate to his role.

[AlmostNancy]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77905

Keyser scum meta hot off the press

I dunno, he seems kind of different here? Can you link a towngame for comparison purposes? Thanks.

[AlmostNancy]

good news: I don't feel like I'm very good at reading Keyser anymore.

It’s interesting that he caught you for fakeclaiming gunsmith.. That’s right, nothing gets past me.

He isn’t obvtown here as compared to those two games but he’s clearly not obviously scummy either. I think we’ll know one way or another by D3.

I want to hear Mewtaph full claim before we end the day and depending on what I think, I’ll probably either revote Performer or vote Mewtaph.

If someone can convince that I’m not seeing something about Key, I’d revisit but his claim seems to be the most believable of the 3 rn.

Like, on D3, if he’s lying, he’ll be busted like you were.

[AlmostNancy]

He omitted claiming his role

Yeah, kind of sketchy.

Out of Key, Performer and Mew, he is doing the least to advance the game.

ive decided the way keyser went about his claim looks very town

sup drunkposting btw.

What do you think of Mewtaph’s claim and he neglected the flavour part of the question entirely.

Btw, can anyone tell me wtf a nova is anyhow?

Main character for Terran in sc2. Good side.

She's a sniper whose suit can turn her invisible.

Didn’t Mitillos hardclaim no ninjas in this setup?

I don't think the flavor is THAT correlative with role. Medic was obvious, but Rory Swann was literally the mechanic/weaponsmith for Raynor in the SC2 campaign and Irrelephant flipped PGO, not gunsmith, while there's the loooosest possible connection for creature's flavor/role. I think alignment is the only one that's truly correlative, like if someone's flavor is straight up Zerg.

No, I mean Mewtaph because he claimed a role with invisible flavour, so I’m curious what his role is. I don’t like that he left that part out because he doesn’t really have to explain his flavour but he very likely would have to explain his role.

[AlmostNancy]

He didn't catch me at all; Nauci did (she knew there wouldn't be two investigatives in that setup and she was an unclaimed investigative ). He acrually thought the claim was brilliant & was ready to pardon my wolfy play...

Yeah, your scumgame has definitely gotten a lot better, anyway. I can understand why NM scumread you. But I’m pretty sure, my initial read on you was probably the right one now. I don’t think scum!you volunteers this scumgame, when you don’t have to.

I thought you were busted on your results?

Like, I know we don’t have any guns, so if he were to claim otherwise, we’d know he was lying.

[AlmostNancy]

tell town!Nauci she's obvscum they said, it'll be fun they said

[AlmostNancy]

If I claim then someone else can confirm my claim but that will probably force them to imply the nature of their full role. So that's why I omitted my role.

I am currently aware that one player is straight up lying about their claimed role.

Who?

[AlmostNancy]

You're voting Performer but believe his 1sbp claim and don't think he makes that if he killed Irrelephant and have someone else as confirmed fakeclaiming and... might? have a counterclaim? but you're not voting that person or counterclaiming?

I'm really confused

Welcome to the club.

[AlmostNancy]

If I claim then someone else can confirm my claim but that will probably force them to imply the nature of their full role. So that's why I omitted my role.

I am currently aware that one player is straight up lying about their claimed role.

These two things

[confirming me as real]/[having to imply the nature of their full role]

are associated with the same person.

Quoted for new page.

Just tell us who is lying about their claim.

[AlmostNancy]

Also, if it isn't obvious enough already, I'll hardclaim that my role is not associated with Nova's character ability to become invisible.

You’re hardclaiming not a ninja. Got it.

[AlmostNancy]

You're voting Performer but believe his 1sbp claim and don't think he makes that if he killed Irrelephant and have someone else as confirmed fakeclaiming and... might? have a counterclaim? but you're not voting that person or counterclaiming?

I'm really confused

I think I know what he might be referring to?

I hate this mess of claims and crap we're currently in o_o

Mew has a role confirmable by someone who hasn’t claimed anything, I’m assuming?

[AlmostNancy]

uh I think you can fairly safely claim without someone who has TMI on your role needing to necessarily claim if you get what I mean

I'm also not sure why you're so calm about someone lying about their role

+1

Yeah, knowing who is bsing about their role, makes the lynch easy, because it’s a sure thing and makes it likely we hit scum.

[AlmostNancy]

Good thing we let the wolves lead a witch hunt to out all the tprs today instead of lynching obvscum perf like 4 rl days ago

I’m assuming, you think that Performer is the one Mew is alledging to be lying his role?

@Mewtaph, is this correct?

[AlmostNancy]

I don't think Performer's lying about his BP claim, so why would Performer would scum claim BP here?

VOTE: Performer

@Nancy I checked earlier as well.
Mewt is FPSing

So you think we should vote Mew then?

[AlmostNancy]

P.edit, yeah I noticed that from before. It didn’t make sense to me then and it isn’t look any better on reread.

[AlmostNancy]

If I knew someone was lying I would be trying to hang them with all my strength and passion.

Why does town-Mew leave it til now?

Yes, because if you have anything approximating a fake guilty, you reveal it to help town lynch the correct wagon and avoid a mislynch.

[AlmostNancy]

Shiiiiiiit that's clever play. I'm starting to wonder if everyone is either directly or indirectly informed tbqh

Mitilos
us
Varsoon

That’s it, afaik.

[AlmostNancy]

It is maybe ~not a good idea~.

You should tell us who the liar is. That isn’t the same as your role because you obviously don’t want town to mislynch.

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: Mitillos

VOTE: mitillos

Why are you voting Mitillos?

[AlmostNancy]

I don't know if I can just follow you on that one.

You are my #1 town now, so maybe, I should just sheep you and we’ll win that way.

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: Mitillos

VOTE: mitillos

Why are you voting Mitillos?

I try to amplify Shoshin's pursuits

Channeling Irrelephant's spirit, really

Do you scumread them yourself though?

[AlmostNancy]

we have zero flipped/claimed investigatives outside of keyser. why would you even risk lynching there without establishing someone (dead or alive) challenging him for only investigative in the game?

Good point. Comparing his role, to Creature’s really makes no sense.

My vote will either be on Performer or Mew today, I think.

[AlmostNancy]

@Nauci, @Varsoon

Is there any difference between a zerg and an infested terran?

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Still feeling worst about this one I think

And best about the worst

Xtoxm
Varsoon
The Worst

are currently my top towns. Yes, Xtoxm just superceded Varsoon for his “investigative” post.

[AlmostNancy]

Thanks Nancy. I'm not sure what to do with you, but i'm sure you'd like to know I moved you out of my scum pile some time today.

A large part of me feels like Nauci is just open wolfing here, the agenda she has been pushing today is so pro-scum. I can't tell if it's coming from a malicious place or reckless town trying to game solve.

Thanks. <3

Why do you think Nauci is “open wolfing” , because of her Key vote?

[AlmostNancy]

For instance, here's my information:
I know that Zerg exist as a faction and that their kill, by default, is not bullets.

That's how I also am fairly sure none of last night's kills were by Zerg.
I posited even/odd factional kills as a possibility, wondering if some absolute chump would try to take credit with a doc or BP-who-used-a-vest fakeclaim, but with our doc dead, the only person who really somewhat adheres to this is Performer.

@Nauci, @Varsoon

Is there any difference between a zerg and an infested terran?

Yeah.
Infested Terran are like this:


They're still human, but obviously 'changed' and controlled.

Regular Zerg are more like monsters outright and don't even talk:

Do you think the kills were made by infested terran?

[AlmostNancy]

pushing lots of different wagons to out info, further pushing mew after he said revealing his info would be anti town, and now pushing on key despite no other invest claims. i struggle to see town motivation for any of this.

Yes, I think if Key were lying, then someone would have debunked him with a CC claim of some sort.

I still don’t understand the logic of having a bp townie in the setup, especially if it isn’t an xshot.

[AlmostNancy]

@Nauci, @Varsoon

Is there any difference between a zerg and an infested terran?

The only thing would be that infested terran could shoot a gun which was part of the speculation but if there was information that the Zerg faction don't have a bullet flavor then the speculation is probably moot

But Varsoon’s claim, would argue otherwise?

That infested terran made the N1 kills.

[AlmostNancy]

we have zero flipped/claimed investigatives outside of keyser. why would you even risk lynching there without establishing someone (dead or alive) challenging him for only investigative in the game?

1: my hollistic read of Keyser is that he's being scummy, for a number of factors

2: his claimed target could be a convenient fake claim

3: thinking about TW's fake gunsmith claims (and a real claim as a scum gunsmith ) made me extra skeptical

I don't know if there's an investigative role at all or if there's an unclaimed one and I'm kinda tired of setup spec because of the number of weird mechanics and claims currently happening; all of the wagons are on people who have claimed something or other and I don't think all of them can be true, so I pick my scummiest read ATM to be the one I doubt because we've all apparently agreed that kokichi will be sorted out end of day somehow

If he turns out to be an even night SK I'm going to have words with someone or other though

But if he’s lying about that, we can lynch him D3. His claim is resolvable, so Key is a pointless wagon for today.

[AlmostNancy]

VOTE: Xtom

Why?

Why does scum!Xtom ever point out the dearth of town investigatives?

What possible scum motivation is there, when he knows Keyser’s claim is resolvable?

[AlmostNancy]

Key's claim doesn't confirm him as town?

No but if his claim is bogus, then we lynch him D3. I agree with Xtoxm that it’s highly unlikely that there are no investigatives in this setup.

[AlmostNancy]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

It’s definitely possible but I really don’t think NM had any intention of claiming anything but Performer should certainly have asked first.

Should we try to fill in the blanks here and assume that Mewtaph’s claim liar is Performer?

It’s tough because he’s not giving us any clue who the liar is. I just find Performer’s claim, hard to believe as making sense, setup-wise.

[AlmostNancy]

Is that Nancy?

Yes.

[AlmostNancy]

I agree with Xtoxm that it’s highly unlikely that there are no investigatives in this setup.

Why are you assuming Key's the only investigative?

we have zero flipped/claimed investigatives outside of keyser. why would you even risk lynching there without establishing someone (dead or alive) challenging him for only investigative in the game?

[AlmostNancy]

But if we ended up in a spot we thought was lylo and went for a massclaim, and it turns out no one dead or alive claims invest, would you agree keys is then very likely town?
If yes, why risk lynching the invest today?
Perf claims protective. We have a dead protective. Perf can never be cleared by setup spec. Keys potentially could, as well as providing a headache for scum if he is town.
Lynching an invest claim with no counters on D2 is a really high risk play we don't need to take.

p-ed: I'm frustrated at Keys lack of doing much as well, i'm not sure he's ever placed a vote since RVS? But that doesn't mean i'm willing to risk lynching him at this stage of the game.

@Shoshin, @anyone.

Tell me, how this isn’t town?

[AlmostNancy]

Okay, Nancy. I'm glad you're around. Can you give me a summary of where you stand on the game? Who are you willing to lynch? Who are you unwilling to lynch?

I’m not willing to lynch Xtoxm, Varsoon, the worst.

(I wrongly scumread Xtoxm initially and tw and Varsoon tried to stop his mislynch.)

I’m willing to lynch Performer, Mew today.

I haven’t decided which yet.

I agreed with Xtoxm. I don’t want to lynch Key today and didn’t Mitilos claim informed townie, along with me and Varsoon?

She claimed the no ninja thing, iirc?

So, it’s between those two rn.

[AlmostNancy]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

It’s definitely possible but I really don’t think NM had any intention of claiming anything but Performer should certainly have asked first.

Should we try to fill in the blanks here and assume that Mewtaph’s claim liar is Performer?

It’s tough because he’s not giving us any clue who the liar is. I just find Performer’s claim, hard to believe as making sense, setup-wise.

Maybe but we'll never know because he had the chance taken away 6 hours before deadline. Perf also didn't know.

Mewtaph has voted Perf so it's safe to assume whatever info it is, does not give us a reason to exclude Perf from lynch. Mew insists saying more would be anti-town, so I don't want to think much more than that.

Well, the problem with that wrt to Mew, is I don’t have a read on him yet, so I don’t know how to properly evaluate that rn.

I think things will a lot clearer on that, closer to EOD, so I’m not rushing my vote.

[AlmostNancy]

The biggest beef I have is that I don't feel like town!keyser would be intentionally obtuse about the way mew is claiming someone is lying

Idk if I've ever seen Keyser so intentionally misrep something, or be a big Lynch All Liars proponent

It feels so scummy that I'd be willing to lynch a claimed investigative

It worked out when I was adamant about dunking ducky that one time

Why not wait for Key to prove or disprove his claim?

[AlmostNancy]

i mean i could link you a couple examples of me protecting people for purely mechanical reasons if you cared but i dont feel like that would actually change anything with your stance on me
im not someone that makes a subpar play just because i happen to be scumreading someone. mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

Well, tw’s metacheck on Key, makes me think, this could be his towngame.

But I’m not willing to lynch our only claimed investigative, unless he proves to be lying.

[AlmostNancy]

mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

I strongly disagree. You can't reliably outguess the mod or know what sorts of misdirection powers scum have. Behaviors, on the other hand, never lie.

Key’s N2 results are confirmable - one way or the other.

[AlmostNancy]

The biggest beef I have is that I don't feel like town!keyser would be intentionally obtuse about the way mew is claiming someone is lying

Idk if I've ever seen Keyser so intentionally misrep something, or be a big Lynch All Liars proponent

It feels so scummy that I'd be willing to lynch a claimed investigative

It worked out when I was adamant about dunking ducky that one time

Why not wait for Key to prove or disprove his claim?

What would disprove said claim? How would you know if he's proved it?

Gunsmith is one of the easier roles to get away with faking, in my experience, so it's frequently fake claimed

Because if he lies about who he checked and the result, another player can confirm it.

Why is no one seeing the obvious logic in what Xtoxm is saying here?

[AlmostNancy]

Tbqh I'd prefer a Keyser lynch over the other 2 today because I feel his scumminess in my bones and the only thing stopping me is what happened in Watchmen Wanted when I was also scumreading him (though that was more strongly conflicted while this is a weaker but more pure scum read)

Has everyone dropped expectations of kokichi to post and are just waiting on whatever ~*~mechanic~*~ to reveal itself?

yep basically
im hoping he wont confirm given his approach but i think that he will
lol

Just don't shoot me if you're a vig if it doesn't show me as IC right away N2. But, yes I will be clear, don't worry.

I think it would be suicide to make this claim, if he isn’t.

[AlmostNancy]

mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

I strongly disagree. You can't reliably outguess the mod or know what sorts of misdirection powers scum have. Behaviors, on the other hand, never lie.

Key’s N2 results are confirmable - one way or the other.

didn't he claim odd night?

he's not giving another result till like day 4

Key N1 result? Are you odd/even night or full power?

I checked Creature.

Odd night.

We can also get insight from what Kokichi says but based on tw’s metacheck, his posting looks like his towngame to me. \_0_/

[AlmostNancy]

Nancy, I beg you to stop talking about proving Key's role. Key's role doesn't prove his alignment so it's not a helpful area of discussion to sort him.

Can you link me to any games with a scum gunsmith in them?

[AlmostNancy]

I also think you're townreading Xtom too easily, Nancy. It reminds me of the way you townread Random in Labyrinth. Can you explain precisely why you townread him? Explain in your own words why he's town.

In what world is Xtoxm playing anything like Random was in Labrynth?

I ignored Random’s obvious scummy play. He was pushing the hardclaimed cop.

Xtoxm OTOH, is trying to stop our only hardclaimed investigative’s lynch?

This reminds you of Labrynth scum!Random, how?

[AlmostNancy]

Can you link me to any games with a scum gunsmith in them?

I'm sure there's games. And even if there isn't, remember when you kept saying there couldn't be scum neighbors in Labyrinth?

When did I ever say that? And how is that even relevant to anything happening in this game? Xtoxm is obvtown here and I’m never lynching him.

[AlmostNancy]

@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.

Yes, and after reading up some more on Starcraft, I think you’re probably right.

I’m not willing to give up the possible scumdoc theory just yet though. Once Performer flips, I think we’ll likely know that.

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

[AlmostNancy]

Nancy, I'm waiting for you to explain why Xtom's town.

I already did. How ever you’re reading Key, there’s nothing remotely scummy about Xtoxm’s case. Random OTOH, had really weird reasons for pushing Nico and reminding me over and over how wrong I was about that, has absolutely nothing to do with my Xtoxm read.

I am not in some private hood with him, like I was with Random. So, there is no basis for you to make this comparison.

[AlmostNancy]

Thanks Nancy. I'm not sure what to do with you, but i'm sure you'd like to know I moved you out of my scum pile some time today.

A large part of me feels like

Nauci

is just open wolfing here, the agenda she has been pushing today is so pro-scum. I can't tell if it's coming from a malicious place or reckless town trying to game solve.

I'm not really sure how you can claim

Shoshin

is openwolfing then not be able to reach a conclusion on her alignment.. I still think she's really obvious town and I don't think she's wolfsiding at all.

What nefarious agenda are you seeing here?

Have you been drinking again?

[AlmostNancy]

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

O_o

So, that’s why initially knowing pretty much zilch about Starcraft, I couldn’t figure out what this could possibly mean.

So, I’m thinking maybe doppelgänger, possibly?

[AlmostNancy]

It bothers me that A50 is hardly posting at all

Funny that our slot has posted as much as you (3rd highest poster) and Shoshin (4th highest poster) combined and you're still "bothered" I'm not posting enough.

[AlmostNancy]

Nancy, I'm waiting for you to explain why Xtom's town.

I already did. How ever you’re reading Key, there’s nothing remotely scummy about Xtoxm’s case. Random OTOH, had really weird reasons for pushing Nico and reminding me over and over how wrong I was about that, has absolutely nothing to do with my Xtoxm read.

I am not in some private hood with him, like I was with Random. So, there is no basis for you to make this comparison.

I don't understand why you townread Xtom, so please explain again as if it isn't obvious. It might seem obvious to you but it's not to me.

I'm not saying your read on Random has anything to do with your read on Xtom. I'm bringing up Labyrinth because from my perspective I'm running into the same communication problems with you that I ran into in Labyrinth. In Labyrinth, you townread a player that was scum, Random. I told you that Random was scum, and I questioned your townread on his slot. I tried talking with you about why you townread Random, but you wouldn't really engage with me about why you townread him or with my reasons for scumreading him. You ignored my read until LYLO. Then he flipped scum, and you said at the end of the game that you wouldn't ignore my reads again.

So I sort of thought you would actually communicate differently with me. But now you're townreading a player that I'm calling scum and FROM MY PERSPECTIVE it feels like you're ignoring my reads again. Maybe you're not ignoring them but you're not communicating that clearly to me. The point is that this situation feels similar from my perspective because I'm trying to communiate with you about a disagreement and I don't feel like you're making any attempt to get a better understanding of the game with me. I don't want us talking past each other.

I'd like to know why you townread Xtom, and I'd appreciate if you could explain it for someone who isn't seeing it. I can't agree with you if I don't understand the read, nor can I address what's wrong with it if there's something wrong with the read. I'm also happy to discuss why I think Xtom's scum, but only if you're going to be open to what I'm saying so that we can actually figure this out together.

Your scumread on Xtoxm seems to be based on him being opposed to lynching Keys, who you scumread, correct?

But since I’m mind melding with him on not wanting to lynch him today, for pretty much the exact same reasons. I obviously can’t see that as scummy, irrespective of Key’s actual alignment.

Because the difference obviously is, that Xtoxm’s case opposing Key lynch actually makes sense, where as Random pushing hardclaimed cop Nico, did not.

And tbf, I was right on NM. I townread him, so like I said to Varsoon right at the beginning of the game - I’m always going to put a hard townread over anyone else’s opinion - even yours.

The difference is, that in Labrynth, I was ignoring Random’s blatant scummy push on Nico. I am not seeing anything like that from Xtoxm.

I would have never fought you on Random either, had it not been for that hood. I was fine with lynching him before that. I made the mistake of not clearly seeing Random’s pocket on me. I doubt I will be so easily fooled ever again by that.

[AlmostNancy]

Varsoon, now that you're around, can you update me on your reads? Where are you on the game relative to me?

I couldn't tell you everyone that's in this game.
Right now there being the 3 big wagons with ALL PLAYERS divided between them is really throwing me for a loop.
I don't know that my reads have changed all that much. I townread you, Xtoxm, and Mitilos.
I've still got to reassess due to multiball. I hadn't really considered it all that much because I was like "Oh Zerg are the main villains, makes sense, that's scum flavor" but with ONLY bullet kills I think that it's definitely gotta be some even/odd terran/protoss/evil terran/zerg divisions.

@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.

Yes, and after reading up some more on Starcraft, I think you’re probably right.

I’m not willing to give up the possible scumdoc theory just yet though. Once Performer flips, I think we’ll likely know that.

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

Hm. I only played the first game, but that might apply to Kerrigan?
She starts off as a strong good-guy Terran but gets captured by the Zerg and made into such a powerful psychic infested Terran that she takes control of her own portion of the Zerg after the Overmind is killed.

So, my character flavour is a good guy, then?

[AlmostNancy]

I'm more suspect of Nauci and AlmostNancy, who are more kinda caught up with flavor-spec and pondering about and haven't been that much of a force today while just kinda letting these main wagons happen.

When was the last time you saw me playing a game I knew anything about its flavour?? Nancy has just been visiting some wiki pages to try and get some idea of what's going on, while I didn't bother.

~A50

[AlmostNancy]

Varsoon, now that you're around, can you update me on your reads? Where are you on the game relative to me?

I couldn't tell you everyone that's in this game.
Right now there being the 3 big wagons with ALL PLAYERS divided between them is really throwing me for a loop.
I don't know that my reads have changed all that much. I townread you, Xtoxm, and Mitilos.
I've still got to reassess due to multiball. I hadn't really considered it all that much because I was like "Oh Zerg are the main villains, makes sense, that's scum flavor" but with ONLY bullet kills I think that it's definitely gotta be some even/odd terran/protoss/evil terran/zerg divisions.

@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.

Yes, and after reading up some more on Starcraft, I think you’re probably right.

I’m not willing to give up the possible scumdoc theory just yet though. Once Performer flips, I think we’ll likely know that.

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

Hm. I only played the first game, but that might apply to Kerrigan?
She starts off as a strong good-guy Terran but gets captured by the Zerg and made into such a powerful psychic infested Terran that she takes control of her own portion of the Zerg after the Overmind is killed.

What are the “prosstoss”?

[AlmostNancy]

Varsoon, why are you townreading Xtom?

A lot of their posts today made sense to me. I guess that's about the extent of it. Doesn't strike me as scum being duplicitous, but town playing from the cuff.

And why are you townreading Mitillos?

Mitilos has been pretty thorough it explaining their thoughts each time they enter thread. They've been less present today, but I still recall liking what they've posted today. Compare that to Mewtaph, who's paragraphs always feel so forced to me--Mitilos' writing doesn't feel as artificial or construct as most scum long-posters tend to.

Not great rationale for either, I'll admit, but I wouldn't wanna consider them for lynch today at least.

Agree.

[AlmostNancy]

I'm more suspect of Nauci and AlmostNancy, who are more kinda caught up with flavor-spec and pondering about and haven't been that much of a force today while just kinda letting these main wagons happen.
If we get a townflip from whoever they've settled on, I'd be more critical of them.

Speaking of people not really leaving an impression on me, Irrelephant came to mind and I literally had to check the OP to realize he was one of the dead players.
Sorry for kinda phoning this one in.

P-EDIT: See, they're posting A LOT but I don't think they've come to fruitful conclusions.

Actually willing to go against the grain on this.
VOTE: AlmostNancy

Congrats on voting town.

I don’t even know how to respond to this. You’re pretty much the last player in this game, I would have expected this from.

I will be waiting for your apology post-game.

[AlmostNancy]

I highly suspect that AlmostNancy is playing in this way, D2, because they are fairly certain I'm the one with the same flavor, and were trying to get me to tilt without full-outing my role, so they could get away and still kill me tonight.

I never mentioned my flavour - only the one I’m INFORMED about.

[AlmostNancy]

I highly suspect that AlmostNancy is playing in this way, D2, because they are fairly certain I'm the one with the same flavor, and were trying to get me to tilt without full-outing my role, so they could get away and still kill me tonight.

Same flavour as what? How do you know what my flavour is?

I have never said a word about that. I crumbed the flavour that

I was given as my informed role

.

So. I have no freaking clue, what you’re even talking about here?

I am informed townie. Do you really need to have my flip to believe that?

[AlmostNancy]

If you're town here, I'll apologize in post-game and also have quite a few words with the mod about designing setups specifically made to fuck town.

No, you fucking apologize to me rn!

Because I am 100% flipping town here.

[AlmostNancy]

The other reason I'm claiming all this now is that I'm fairly sure I tilted too much anyway and was gonna catch a kill and, as the mod re-iterated, Informed players don't flip their information.

P-EDIT: I commented on that earlier, that could make sense. If that's the case, then Xtoxm and AlmostNancy as partners might make sense--didn't AlmostNancy defend there a bit? Regardless, we should flip AlmostNancy first.

Tell me what you think my fucking role is here Varsoon and how you even know what it is?

Since I have never mentioned word one about it’

I wanted to be crystal clear about what my role was, since Krazy said the part I’m informed about, will not be revealed post-flip.

[AlmostNancy]

Consider my point of view.
I literally just came out of a towngame with Shoshin and Skitter where if I had just claimed my guilty instead of softed it on D2, we would have very likely won the game.

I’m not considering the pov of anyone is is mad enough to mislynch me. and apparently knows what my character is, despite me never flavour claiming it.

So, you would townread me for being selfish and not outting all that I know here?

I fucking hope I never play another game with you, in that case.

[AlmostNancy]

You had better be scum here, Varsoon.

[AlmostNancy]

P.edit because the REAL _____ will claim first and scum won’t be able to beat them to it.

@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.

Yes, and after reading up some more on Starcraft, I think you’re probably right.

I’m not willing to give up the possible scumdoc theory just yet though. Once Performer flips, I think we’ll likely know that.

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

You literally said you know someone isn't 'the original' [FLAVORNAME].
That's my role.

When I flip, there is no way for town to know what I’m informed about. Krazy said as much and I didn’t want to chance it that we lose because I hid it.

Tell.me what possible scum motivation, I could possibly have for revealing what I did?

Why would I do that as scum?

Think, Varsoon.

I actually do think you’re town and are going to lose the game for us. It is anti-town for me to claim at this point.

You will see why, once I flip. The only difference is that it will be on your head if we lose.

I am town here. I am not lying. My flip will explain everything.

[AlmostNancy]

P.edit because the REAL _____ will claim first and scum won’t be able to beat them to it.

@AlmostNancy: I think it's possible that an infested terran did a kill on N1, given we have two deaths.
I dunno what the factional makeup is like, though.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that whoever killed the PGO was some kind of BP SK though.

Yes, and after reading up some more on Starcraft, I think you’re probably right.

I’m not willing to give up the possible scumdoc theory just yet though. Once Performer flips, I think we’ll likely know that.

Anyway, my role PM says something along the lines of, there is a character in the game, who isn’t the original ____ or words to that effect.

You literally said you know someone isn't 'the original' [FLAVORNAME].
That's my role.

Varsoon, haven’t you figured out what this means yet?

Use your head.

I know you’re really smart and you know Starcraft way better than I do.

[AlmostNancy]

Like, does a building literally have to fall on you?

It really is that obvious.

No, I have absolutely no idea what your flavour is and you don’t know mine either.

But the fact, that we have the very same role PM tells me. that there’s more than one of them in this game’

Doppelgängers, I mean.

So, what this means is, that there are 2 versions of my informed flavour - 1 town, the “original” and 1 scum, probably infested terran, right? and obviously, the same is true for you.

You are also informed of the fact, that they’re are 2 versions of the same character in the game, 1 original/town and 1 infested/town.

Right?

So, that’s why I said that the first scumflip, will break this game wide open.

[AlmostNancy]

P.edit. That was directed to Varsoon.

[AlmostNancy]

It bothers me that A50 is hardly posting at all

Funny that our slot has posted as much as you (3rd highest poster) and Shoshin (4th highest poster) combined and you're still "bothered" I'm not posting enough.

Nancy you know what she meant.. :/

I didn’t post that, it was A50.

[AlmostNancy]

I think Nancy should claim.

It’s antitown for me to do that.

I won’t lose us the game because some people are bad at this game. Sorry.

[AlmostNancy]

im sad at how much info has been claimed today

And if I do what Shoshin is suggesting, town is pretty much fucked.

[AlmostNancy]

I am Duran.

lmao Krazy you sonofabitch

Varsoon, why the hell did you do that?

Duran isn’t the flavour I was informed about.

God.

[AlmostNancy]

God okay, by consensus,

Is it or isn’t it anti-town for me to reveal the exact name of the flavour I was given as my informed role?

Tell me and if enough people think it’s in town’s best interest to know the specific name of the the character I was told, isn’t the original _____, I’ll reveal it.

But I honestly don’t see how my doing that helps town at all and my flip, will 100% make it crystal clear.

[AlmostNancy]

It isn’t Duran.

Why did you do that Varsoon? Why?

Why didn’t you ask me if the name I’d been given. had a D in it or something?

Then I could have put your mind at ease and you wouldn’t have claimed.

[AlmostNancy]

For the record, Duran is a Xel'naga, a species separate from the 3 main factions in the game. They're more like god-tier creatures who push the other 3 around like chess pieces. So I'd be inclined to think Varsoon is 3p (probably non town killing 3p?) and that there's an evil Duran in the game. Duran is a Xel'naga species character who has disguised as various characters throughout the franchise of arguable virtue to push the narrative along.

This flavor shit is now completely bananas and I am shaking my fist at Krazy's popcorn bucket

I’m only familiar with one kind of Duran.

Spoiler:

[AlmostNancy]

The other reason I'm claiming all this now is that I'm fairly sure I tilted too much anyway and was gonna catch a kill and, as the mod re-iterated, Informed players don't flip their information.

P-EDIT: I commented on that earlier, that could make sense. If that's the case, then Xtoxm and AlmostNancy as partners might make sense--didn't AlmostNancy defend there a bit? Regardless, we should flip AlmostNancy first.

Tell me what you think my fucking role is here Varsoon and how you even know what it is?

Since I have never mentioned word one about it’

I wanted to be crystal clear about what my role was, since Krazy said the part I’m informed about, will not be revealed post-flip.

Varsoon was told that scum are informed of his flavor/role's existence.

Your information seemed to be awareness of his flavor's existence.

This isn't a pure logic implication since non-scum could also have been informed of the role's existence, but it does apply that not knowing = not scum. Obviously, town wouldn't be able toknow who didn't know this.

I was not informed of Varsoon’s flavour’s existence. The flavour I was informed of is not Duran. I have absolutely no idea, which 2 players in the game have possibly either flavour - either the original ____ or the probably corrupted version.

[AlmostNancy]

For the record, Duran is a Xel'naga, a species separate from the 3 main factions in the game. They're more like god-tier creatures who push the other 3 around like chess pieces. So I'd be inclined to think Varsoon is 3p (probably non town killing 3p?) and that there's an evil Duran in the game. Duran is a Xel'naga species character who has disguised as various characters throughout the franchise of arguable virtue to push the narrative along.

This flavor shit is now completely bananas and I am shaking my fist at Krazy's popcorn bucket

I’m only familiar with one kind of Duran.

Spoiler:

I was thinking this but the timing seemed off..
is this still Nancy?

Yes but I think A50 might still possibly appreciate it.

[AlmostNancy]

Consider my point of view.
I literally just came out of a towngame with Shoshin and Skitter where if I had just claimed my guilty instead of softed it on D2, we would have very likely won the game.

I’m not considering the pov of anyone is is mad enough to mislynch me. and apparently knows what my character is, despite me never flavour claiming it.

So, you would townread me for being selfish and not outting all that I know here?

I fucking hope I never play another game with you, in that case.

I feel like you frequently misread other players' posts and react dramatically to the quick conclusions you form from imperfect data. I don't feel like the above is an accurate characterization of Varsoon's information claim or accusation, whether intentional or not.

I understood at the time that I thought he was saying that I had either revealed my flavour or that he somehow knew what it was, despite my never having even so much as hinted at it.

The, I realized that I had misunderstood what he was saying.

What totally freaked me out in the first place, was it was BECAUSE of what Varsoon posted, that I decided to do this. I realized that my role PM by itself, would not make all of what I know clear but now, it 100% will. No way can scum misinterpret what my flip shall reveal.

That’s why I think it’s antitown for me to fullclaim because rn, scum won’t want me to flip, because it will fuck them and that is the only way, we avoid being NK’d.

[AlmostNancy]

You will see why, once I flip.

This feels like the 4th "ONCE I FLIP YOU'LL SEE WHY I'M TOWN" this game

I'm starting to hate whatever mechanics are at work

I can't even tell who's cagier at this point it's a race to the bottom

No, not really because now I’ve set a trap for scum, should I get flipped. That wasn’t the case before. A50 played the way he did, to keep us safe from the NK. That’s why he did all of that memeing, because he had been NK’d early in his past few games.

So, the more I obvtowned it (or tried to, anyway), the more he tried to circumvent that and yes, I’m sure he will apologize to Skitter for that post-game.

But once I claimed my informed town role and realized - after doing some more reading up about Starcraft. I realized that keeping what I knew to myself, was both bad for town and gave scum inventive to kill us to prevent me, from fully revealing what I know.

And I didn’t want to say anymore about it but when Krazy said that my informed info, basically dies with me, I understood why it was necessary to fully claim what I knew, minus the part that will likely be bad for scum. once we’re flipped.

[AlmostNancy]

I just don't care that much about mechanics. I want to find the scum, that's all.

This is a heavy mechanics and flavour-laden game, there’s no getting around that.

[AlmostNancy]

There's better games if all you want is to solve a logic puzzle.

I thougt that’s what Mafia was supposed to be.

[AlmostNancy]

Mafia is an unlogic puzzle

What you really mean is that it isn’t played by logical people.

[AlmostNancy]

@AlmostNancy: My flavor is identical to a scum player who is not actually my character but an imposter. You claimed pretty much the same thing. It feels like bait to try to get me to tilt too much info because if you are that scum player, you know the longer my role stays in game, the more info town gets.

If you're town, I'm sorry.

I missed this before. This has nothing to do with MY actual flavour.

I am an informed townie

. This is all about a specific flavour that I know for sure, exists in the game and based on my role PM and what I’ve been able to deduce from reading up about it, is that there’s 2 of _____ in this game and

I know that flavour isn’t Duran

. so it’s 100% not you. There is no “D” in either of them. I just wish you had questioned me about it before you unnecessarily flavour claimed. :/

But what we now know is that there are 2 town and 2 scum versions of each and who knows how many more?

[AlmostNancy]

Consider my point of view.
I literally just came out of a towngame with Shoshin and Skitter where if I had just claimed my guilty instead of softed it on D2, we would have very likely won the game.

I still hope you get the chance to do that here. I would say that if NM was still in the game but then, his reads were obviously shit. :/

[AlmostNancy]

but with ONLY bullet kills I think that it's definitely gotta be some even/odd terran/protoss/evil terran/zerg divisions.

Would protoss have bullets?

No, but they do have illusory sort-of-spells and things like that, though

it's more like things that make them invisible

.
They use gauss and beam weaponry.

What?

They’re bad guys, right?


@Mitilos

You were informed that no scum roles have a ninja modifier or just mafia?

Because if Protoss did exist, then they’d obviously be ninjas, right?

So, maybe SK ninjas?

[AlmostNancy]

I am informed there is another player in the game with the same flavor name as me.
I am also informed that they are a member of the Zerg faction.
Each night, I learn the targets of the Zerg night kills.
At Night 4, I will learn all of the targets for Zerg night actions taken on Night 3.
I am also informed that they KNOW my role exists and what I am aware of, but not who I am.

I am Duran.
I think that AlmostNancy's play has specifically been trying to get me to tilt the other knowledge I have.
I highly suspected I would die tonight and was trying to make implications about AlmostNancy so that you'd be able to follow the crumbs back there.
I didn't want to claim this because now Zerg HAVE TO KILL ME and our Medic is dead, too.

I also believe Zerg work on an Even-Night Kill because Zerg did not kill on Night 1.

If I claim my roll and flavour, do you think I can stop this? I partially feel that this is my fault now.

[AlmostNancy]

Really important shit if I die tonight, but I'm sure you numbskulls will completely not listen to me:

Performer is very likely scum with that claim.
If Kokichi isn't confirmed as town, he is confirmed as scum.
Look really really close at what I've posted today. It'll serve as your roadmap to scum.
Don't let this be another TAZ.

VOTE: Performer

[AlmostNancy]

That's how I also am fairly sure none of last night's kills were by Zerg.
I posited even/odd factional kills as a possibility, wondering if some absolute chump would try to take credit with a doc or BP-who-used-a-vest fakeclaim, but with our doc dead, the only person who really somewhat adheres to this is Performer.

[AlmostNancy]

Spoiler:

If I claim then someone else can confirm my claim but that will probably force them to imply the nature of their full role. So that's why I omitted my role.

I am currently aware that one player is straight up lying about their claimed role.

Then don't beat around the bush.
Your information will NOT flip with you.
Furthermore, I thought I could win that way in TAZ mafia when I had a guilty on NorthsideGal.
I made a hard soft at it but pushed someone else
That someone else was scum and shot me during the day because the mod recklessly put a scum dayvig in the setup.
Then the scum that I had a guilty on, which should have been obvious from my flip and final post, got away all game.
The day before lylo, town FOUND my guilty, and then proceeded to NO LYNCH despite having 100% caught scum.
Because town no lynched instead of lynching scum, they were smoked the next day when frustrated town voted for another town.
Several players in this game were in that game.
They can all attest to this:

Do not beat around the bush.
If you have information that 100% condemns someone as mafia, hard claim it.
Otherwise, the other townies will make some real trash plays and flush the victory you worked for down the drain.

So, town won’t know that we’re informed and what we’re informed about after we die? That sucks. :/

The full role name, including the word "informed" will be revealed for players with "informed" in the role name, if any exist in this game.

What the slot is informed of will not be revealed

.

[/quote][/quote]

[AlmostNancy]

I'm glad Krazy put a mechanic in the game to punish the d1 pgo claim. Good game design.

Also we're gonna get boned one way or another for all the info we needlessly outed today.

Apparently, town gets punished for trying to game the setup, to fuck scum. That’s what all of this is looking like to me. :/

[AlmostNancy]

@AlmostNancy: My flavor is identical to a scum player who is not actually my character but an imposter. You claimed pretty much the same thing. It feels like bait to try to get me to tilt too much info because if you are that scum player, you know the longer my role stays in game, the more info town gets.

If you're town, I'm sorry.

I missed this before. This has nothing to do with MY actual flavour.

I am an informed townie

. This is all about a specific flavour that I know for sure, exists in the game and based on my role PM and what I’ve been able to deduce from reading up about it, is that there’s 2 of _____ in this game and

I know that flavour isn’t Duran

. so it’s 100% not you. There is no “D” in either of them. I just wish you had questioned me about it before you unnecessarily flavour claimed. :/

But what we now know is that there are 2 town and 2 scum versions of each and who knows how many more?

see now I'm even more curious wtf mewtaph was talking about with accusing someone of lying and whatnot

kinda want to flip that

He keeps saying it’s “anti-town” but he’s essentially saying he has a guilty on someone, so how can it ever be anti-town to claim it?

I dunno, I don’t think I’m buying it.

[AlmostNancy]

I don't think it essentially means he has a guilty on someone at all?

Like for example, it's not the mechanic that's happening here, but if he's masons with someone he wouldn't want to out them? Idk.

I'm having a hard time thinking of what it could be though

Oh I guess that’s possible too but why can’t he just say X is lying about their claim? That’s the part I can’t wrap my brain around.

[AlmostNancy]

@Varsoon, I’m really sorry I lost it on you earlier. I think I was more in shock then anything else. And I did what I did, because of your post. I just don’t know how we win this now. :/

[AlmostNancy]

I'm glad Krazy put a mechanic in the game to punish the d1 pgo claim. Good game design.

Also we're gonna get boned one way or another for all the info we needlessly outed today.

Apparently, town gets punished for trying to game the setup, to fuck scum. That’s what all of this is looking like to me. :/

Punished for claiming to early, which is why how today has gone is so disappointing. I feel really good about perf being scum though. Hopefully we can get things back on track.

I’m depressed. Varsoon never should have outted what he did. He might as well been waving a red flag to a bull. :/

[AlmostNancy]

How are you all doing today my fellow town members.

Well, other than being royallu fucked by mechanics. Great.

[AlmostNancy]

Good! Any update on your reads, Koki?

Thoughts on the game?

Who should we lynch today? Performer? Mewtaph?

[AlmostNancy]

Good! Any update on your reads, Koki?

Thoughts on the game?

Who should we lynch today? Performer? Mewtaph?

@Kokichi

[AlmostNancy]

@Varsoon, I’m really sorry I lost it on you earlier. I think I was more in shock then anything else. And I did what I did, because of your post. I just don’t know how we win this now. :/

I will still play with you, I was just upset.

[AlmostNancy]

@AlNan: No, there are absolutely no ninjas in the game. No town ninjas, now non-town ninjas, no ninjas whatsoever. Also, I've been looking at a starcraft wiki, and I would like you to look back extremely carefully and think really hard about whether your information makes Kokichi more suspicious.

@Performer: I (and others) did ask for explanations. The reasoning didn't track. And it wasn't just about Mewtaph.

@skitter: It's not that town can't be illogical. I am also townleaning on AlNan, and you will recall I said that they've used fallacious reasoning before. But someone whose reasoning follows and is plainly possible to understand is more likely to be town, simply because they are not relying on fallacies; i.e. errors.

@Varsoon: Out of curiosity, do you get a result if scum try to kill someone and are blocked/jailkept, or only if their kill is actually attempted, as it were? In other words, does it look like there could be a jailkeeper around? Also, along the same lines, if you happen to be jailkept, will you still get whatever results you'd normally get?

Incidentally, Keyser's role, if true, is more of a half-investigative one (in that it doesn't tell us as much as a real investigative role). I wouldn't be surprised if in addition to his, we also have another less effective investigative role, like a watcher or something.

How does my information have anything to do with Kokichi? I have no idea, who has these flavours, only that they exist.

Since, I believe my informed flavour role, points to both an “original” character and one who isn’t, I’m assuming, based on Varsoon’s theory, that the one who isn’t “original”, is probably an infested terran, who either killed Irrelephant11 or Creature last night, because he says that only zergs can presumably kill tonight or something?

Is this right, @Varsoon?

[AlmostNancy]

I don't think it essentially means he has a guilty on someone at all?

Like for example, it's not the mechanic that's happening here, but if he's masons with someone he wouldn't want to out them? Idk.

I'm having a hard time thinking of what it could be though

Oh I guess that’s possible too but why can’t he just say X is lying about their claim? That’s the part I can’t wrap my brain around.

Because he believes that X is lying about their claim to hide being a tpr so outing their identity would out a tpr

I have no idea, even who, he could possibly be referring to. No one who’s claimed so far, has claimed vt, so I totally do not get it.

And how could Mewtaph even know such a thing? The mason thing, made way more sense.

[AlmostNancy]

P.edit. And if that’s the case, how do you account for Mew not claiming HIS role?

[AlmostNancy]

With the multiball theory I would find Keyser being a scum Zerg gunsmith somehow crazy plausible

I think that if SK is responsible for Irrelephant11 kill and not a scumdoc, then Performer’s bp townie, sounds a bit suspicious.

[AlmostNancy]

It isn’t Duran.

Why did you do that Varsoon? Why?

Why didn’t you ask me if the name I’d been given. had a D in it or something?

Then I could have put your mind at ease and you wouldn’t have claimed.

Because it'd out that I'm Duran to the

Zerg Duran

who wants to kill me.

Zerg? *confused*. Don’t you mean infested terran? I thought Zergs were monsters who couldn’t do that?

So, while I’m pretty sure my two informed flavours are town/terran and scum, now I don’t know whether or not scum=infested terran or zerg?

[AlmostNancy]

@Skitter: Yeah, you're pretty much right in all your conclusions you asked me about.

@Mitilos: I learn if Zerg took a killing action, regardless of if it is a success or not.

@Varsoon, I’m really sorry I lost it on you earlier. I think I was more in shock then anything else. And I did what I did, because of your post. I just don’t know how we win this now. :/

If you're town, then we lose, and it's thanks to the mod designing a setup that's got this much hard swing and screw for town claiming.
It's also thanks to my particular combination of trash history with roles like this one.

No, don’t say that. I don’t want to lose 2 town games back to back.

[AlmostNancy]

Right then.
So what do you propose, Xtoxm?
Do we settle on one of Performer, Mewtaph, or Keyser?
Or do we go all in on the gamble that AlmostNancy is the role my role warns us about?
Or do we do something altogether different?

We have 2 days. We are headed into a holiday weekend. Let's figure this out now.

Varsoon, I swear to you I’m not lying to you. You were in Overkill 2. Can’t you tell I’m town here?

Whoever your role PM warned you about, it wasn’t me because We 100% do not have Duran as our informed flavour claim.

[AlmostNancy]

Okay, then.
I also think that Nancy's reaction struck me as town, though it really bothers me that I went all-in.

Here's the big issue I have.
If Performer isn't lying about being bulletproof, scum REALLY want his lynch.

But he could also very very easily be bulletproof and belong to one of the non-Terran factions.

So I am conflicted there.
Why go for Performer over anyone else?

Who do you think we should vote for? I’m hesitant on Key, both because I think this could possibly be his towngame, as well as Xtoxm’s point about no claimed executives but I will listen to your case on whomever and seriously consider it, since you are in my top 3 towns.

[AlmostNancy]

If he's lying about the IC thing, lynch him no matter what he claims. No matter what.
If he is scum, then the info he gets is more valuable than his life--especially considering his claim bought him out of being lynched early anyway.
Does that make sense? If you're going to be lynched D1, why not claim something to survive at least until you get factional info for your team?
That's the rationale I see.

I see what you're saying on Performer. Why do you think scum have entirely avoided buying into my AlmostNancy wagon?

A) Either because town is too smart and B) it isn’t in scum’s best interest rn to have us flip. C) Scum would be exposed post-flip.

I am not easily mislynchable like an NM. That doesn’t mean scum won’t try to kill us at some point. I’d be legit shocked if scum doesn’t kill us before LYLO but who knows? We are essentially a vt now, for all practical purposes. \_0_/

[AlmostNancy]

Since they're for sure killing me so there's no way to set up lynch AlmostNancy into lynching me.

Why the fuck would I vote you here, let alone lynch you? I want us to win this.

Did you miss the part, where I had you as my #2 town?

[AlmostNancy]

Alternatively, scum could just hard-avoid on AlmostNancy if AlmostNancy is scum so
I think they get the most out of townreading AlmostNancy here no matter the situation.

Scum benefits from townreading me? How? Oh because they know I’m flipping town?

[AlmostNancy]

Why do you think scum have entirely avoided buying into my AlmostNancy wagon?

Because
1. Scum were entirely absent when it went down and therefore there was is no interaction to witness.
2. Scum that were present knew Nancy well and didn't want to risk exposing themselves by getting into a conflict with her.

+1

[AlmostNancy]

@Skitter: Absolutely, yes, Zerg are our enemies.
I hate the idea that this setup has both a gunsmith that gets a false positive on two town roles so far and that there may be two informed roles that can be tricked into full-claiming solely based on the soft-claim of the other.
It's far, far too much bullshit put into the setup that's negative rhetorical utility for town.
I hate it.
That's why I want that Nancy lynch
Because if it flips town at least I can feel okay that the setup is just made to pants/embarrass town.
and if it flips scum then I won and I'm the best and I can die happy.

No Varsoon, you don’t want that, unless you’re really that hopelessly bad at reading me.

Why do you want to risk an obvious mislynch?

[AlmostNancy]

@Skitter: Absolutely, yes, Zerg are our enemies.
I hate the idea that this setup has both a gunsmith that gets a false positive on two town roles so far and that there may be two informed roles that can be tricked into full-claiming solely based on the soft-claim of the other.
It's far, far too much bullshit put into the setup that's negative rhetorical utility for town.
I hate it.
That's why I want that Nancy lynch
Because if it flips town at least I can feel okay that the setup is just made to pants/embarrass town.
and if it flips scum then I won and I'm the best and I can die happy.

No Varsoon, you don’t want that, unless you’re really that hopelessly bad at reading me.

Why do you want to risk an obvious mislynch?

And you won’t be happy, you’ll be WOAT. You don’t want to be in the same position in this game as I was in Overkill 2. Trust me on that. :/

[AlmostNancy]

I thought nancy's reaction was pretty townie tbh.

If zerg are the only scum faction, and dont have gun flavor, town gunsmith doesnt make much sense to me.

If there's more than one faction, and the other faction does have gun flavor, town or zerg gunsmith makes sense to me

@varsoon, zerg is an anti town faction, right?

I feel pretty good about you being town here, for a lot of reasons.

[AlmostNancy]

You know, i've always had the opposite feeling. People seem to have this instinct that duplicate roles can't exist. And every conflicting claim means one is scum.
But if someone claims my role, or looks like they are claiming my role, I tend to think "maybe the mod put 2 in". Especially lower utility abilities.
If it's 2 people claiming doctor in a mini, sure. But that's not the situation here.

People really should read DnD Mafia. Math wrongly deathtunneled Kokichi throughout thr entire game, based on mechanics. Math himself got mislynched due to that as well. And Varsoon should be leery of making that mistake. When in doubt between play and mechanics, ALWAYS, always pick play. I’ve lost count on how many games I’ve lost due to mechanics. Very few, due to misjudging play.

[AlmostNancy]

I'd normally not think it's a counter or whatever, Xtoxm, but the nature of my role is knowing that someone else has my flavor and knows I get informed. So it makes sense that person would try to tilt me to soft so they could find and kill me before my info drops.

Varsoon, for like the billionth fucking time, It’s not ME. Our flavour claim isn’t fucking Duran. There is at least 1 more characters with a scum counterpart, that we know of. For all we know, there could be more. You know of 1 and I know of 1, that’s 2 so far. Two players are the originals and another two are imposters.

[AlmostNancy]

Nah, we're not lynching Koki today.
I KNOW he's probably screwing with me for REASONS with THAT CLAIM but
I can't abandon my principles.

Just warning you guys
We're up shit creek.
You better put your best foot forward
Or we lose.

Can you seriously not read me this game? Like how is that even possible? Tell me why scum!me would claim what I did? What possible motivation could I possibly have?

[AlmostNancy]

I thought nancy's reaction was pretty townie tbh.

If zerg are the only scum faction, and dont have gun flavor, town gunsmith doesnt make much sense to me.

If there's more than one faction, and the other faction does have gun flavor, town or zerg gunsmith makes sense to me

@varsoon, zerg is an anti town faction, right?

Gunsmith is a well defined role. It has nothing to do with flavour. It gets guilties on mafia. Regardless of what flavour the mod is using. This is an objectively bad reason to vote for Keyser.

+1

And what if Key is our only investigative?

I’m not convinced Mewtaph is town. We shouldn’t rush this vote.

[AlmostNancy]

So it makes sense that person would try to tilt me to soft so they could find and kill me before my info drops.

Maybe that's what mewtaph was trying to do

I suppose that’s possible?

[AlmostNancy]

Gunsmith is a well defined role. It has nothing to do with flavour. It gets guilties on mafia. Regardless of what flavour the mod is using. This is an objectively bad reason to vote for Keyser.

It gets red checks on roles with guns

but Varsoon's info said Scum don't have bullet flavor kills so they probably don't have guns

but a scum gunsmith would be able to find tpr or 3rd parties

How does scum not have guns? There were 2 kills last night, both by guns right?

[AlmostNancy]

I don't buy town having a gunsmith when we've got two roles that'd already ping it and there's high chance scum have roles to give it 'false' clears.

But that really depends on how much the mod has designed this specifically to ruin my day.

What 2 roles “ping” it?

[AlmostNancy]

Wonky shit is (iirc) that Keyser claimed Informed Town Gunsmith after there had been a lot of discussion about Gunsmith in the setup.

Key claimed “informed”? Informed about what?

[AlmostNancy]

Ok. On further research, my interpretation applies to normal games. Theme games

can

be different, but it would be considered bastard not to in inform the gunsmith in the role PM that he checks specifically flavour. So this is something Keyser would need to clarify.

viewtopic.php?p=7733381#p7733381
mastina is a co mod here, this isn't something that would just slip through.

Yes, hopefully no one quickhammers this time before he can explain it. I’m frustrated with both Key and Mew, for not contributing more to the game.

[AlmostNancy]

@Performer:
I don't know how to spell out my claim any more than I already have.
What are you having trouble figuring out here?

After giving it some thought, I'm concluding that 1 of you, AN, or the other informed roles is outright lying.

Duran and someone else being named Duran sounds farfetched. The wiki made it sound like Duran is a bad guy.

Nauci/Vars have become confusing with their vote swings and it's ridiculous that a claimed investigative is being voted. I could see town keys investigating creat on n1. if I was investigative I would check him too after his scummy posts. Extremely unfortunate that creat ended up being killed, which was as unexpected as irrel's death (whoever killed them, I want to know why post game).

Anyway, I've made it clear who I believe is scum.

Do you have a Duran link?

I’ve only read up on my flavour and my two informed ones.

[AlmostNancy]

@mod: if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

i asked this yesterday but i think krazy didn't see it

@Krazy

[AlmostNancy]

The wiki made it sound like Duran is a bad guy.

It's a complex character who is basically a 3p creature

he's been confederate, a confederate traitor, and even an infested terran

Can someone please post a link? I would like to read more about it.

[AlmostNancy]

I'm feeling really apathetic because I get criticized by someone regardless of what play I make and I think I really messed up if AlmostNancy is town here and I basically just gutted my own slot.

It's hard to get enthused.

I’m trying to figure out, if the non-original part of my informed flavour, is infested terran or zerg and how which affects the gamestate.

Varsoon mentioned Protoss too. Are they good or bad guys?

[AlmostNancy]

I'll still probably mod but I think I'm awful at the actual game of mafia.
Like particularly game-throwingly bad.

You’re probably still having a better day than I’m having. I haven’t even eaten a single thing today. That’s how upset I’ve been.

[AlmostNancy]

I'll still probably mod but I think I'm awful at the actual game of mafia.
Like particularly game-throwingly bad.

i don't know if my opinion is relevant or important to you, but i dont' think that you're that bad at it

i think you made a mistake and probably outed before you should have, but i don't think it was on the level of game-throwing or anything, and hey, it's a game, and eveyrone makes mistakes or plays suboptimally. i don't think it was the worst thing on the planet you could have done

and now at least we can try to sort out the gunsmith/flavor thing out of this, and it finally helped me get a read on nancy

(sometimes i think you get a little too aggressive for my taste, but it think that's something you try to reign back and not let it get personal, and i don't think you crossed any lines in this game)

<3

Thanks. I feel like I got punched in the gut earlier by Cerb but that’s unrelated to anything happening in this game.

[AlmostNancy]

A good player is able to grow beyond their faults, trust when they need to, analyze the rhetoric, find scum, obv-town, and lead weaker players.
I don't think I can really do any of that.

A good player learns from their mistakes and gets better. Read Malcolm Gladwell’s Outiers, if you don’t believe me.

[AlmostNancy]

I was feeling tortured over the informational stuff on my role, especially when it felt like Almost Nancy was BLATANTLY fishing for it.
Especially since I literally just came out of TAZ, where we would've probably won if I had just claimed my guilty on NSG.
I fucked up there and I think I fucked up here, too.
Why does this keep happening to me?

No, I was “fishing” for information about Starcraft. Until you and Nauci started talking about infested terrans, et al, I actually though my informed flavour claim, was NAI. That’s why I was kind of freaking out about it yesterday, when I did some more reading and it dawned on me, that my informed flavour claim, could possibly be scum. Now, I realized that I’m actually informed of 2 flavours in the game. One of them is obviously terran/town and the other has to be scum but what form? I have no clue and can there be more then one type of scum version and how does which version impact the game?

[AlmostNancy]

<3
Thank you.
I agree, games should be about fun and not just who wins.
I think when I get too personally involved, they stop being fun for other people.
What bothers me is that I enjoy when I am frustrated enough to be watching the thread like a hawk; at least then I feel engaged and alive, even if I'm pissed off.
I'm going to just try to focus on one game at a time moving forward and see how that goes.
This game and others have really destroyed my confidence.

Well, I’m not letting Cerb or anyone convince me of something untrue.

[AlmostNancy]

I feel like there are a several misunderstandings in your posts, performer (e.g. varsoon has only ever sarcastically said shoshin is 100% accurate)

Also I don't remember Irrelephant saying what Rory Swann's job was? (Fwiw, he was an engineer who created all of the weaponry for the protagonist, hence why I thought gunsmith would have been appropriate)

I'm having a hard time parsing some of what you said

What are these misunderstandings?

About vars I have to disagree as Vars' continued faith in shos stopped sounding like sarcasm and sounded like he was a religious believer.

What's the relevance of Rory's job? I did a lookup and went with the result I found , as I didn't even remember who Rory was in the SC series so I had to look into it. As for gunsmith, I don't know about that but I
took his claim at face value of him stating he was a PGO , and I'm thinking it's likelier than not.

What are you having hard time with for parsing - what's unclear?

heavy tpr spec in this setup is probably bad. turst me on this one

?

I actually find it helpful in normals and games that have been touched by at least 1 member of the NRG . Also flavor speculating if claimed flavors make sense, should help in flavored/themed games like this one.

I feel like there are a several misunderstandings in your posts, performer (e.g. varsoon has only ever sarcastically said shoshin is 100% accurate)

Also I don't remember Irrelephant saying what Rory Swann's job was? (Fwiw, he was an engineer who created all of the weaponry for the protagonist, hence why I thought gunsmith would have been appropriate)

I'm having a hard time parsing some of what you said

I think there would have to be a big reason for her being scum for me to consider her as a contender for being scum at the moment and I don't think that really exists atm.

Like what does this sentence even say about Nauci
“There would have to be a big reason for her to be scum for me to consider her scum at the moment, and I don’t think that exists at the moment”
Say it out loud and you’ll have like the definition of a tautology, and you’ll also really find yourself living *at the moment*
I don’t disagree that Nauci is townish but it’s not because *theres not a big reason to call her scum at the moment*

Nothing mewtaph has posted reads

real

so far
VOTE: mewtaph prove me wrong

Man if you really are a town pgo then we really lucked out

how did we luck out if we have a town pgo?
this is like saying we lucked out if there was a claimed gunsmith.

Irrelephant could have been another informed player that there isn't a PGO

Though that'd be very specific and overly advantageous information I don't think Krazy would throw out

I don't know how well others' flavors and roles match but Rory swan ought to have been a gunsmith instead of pho is why I'm paranoid

I don't follow. Would you mind going through why you think he's informed another player that isn't a PGO?
What are you saying here?

5 AM paranoia comin' in hot

Irrelephant could have been another informed player that there isn't a PGO

Though that'd be very specific and overly advantageous information I don't think Krazy would throw out

I don't know how well others' flavors and roles match but Rory swan ought to have been a gunsmith instead of pho is why I'm paranoid

Incidentally, I saw in post #1 a mention of "informed status" not being revealed on flip. I've never played in a game with informed players, so I was wondering if the information they have should be shared with the rest of the town. Thoughts?

Finally, a useful subject.

If you think it should be shared then by all means, do share. If not then don't. Like why would you be telling us there is -say- a player with the loved modifier when we will get to know that later on anyway? On contrast, why would you hide something like -say- "all scum have guns" (unless you yourself are the Gunsmith).

Note: No. That's not a hint or a crumb. It's a reference to this game where I was indeed an informed Gunsmith who knew the scum team all had guns (all = both of them).

Guys please unvote, I’m an informed town gunsmith.

Does informed town gunsmith, sound like a made up role to you? Who fake claims informed gunsmith of any alignment?

[AlmostNancy]

My thoughts on claims/roles:

Spoiler:

I think most players care too much about keeping their roles hidden. I don't think it hurts towns to get multiple early claims from scummy players. I also don't think it hurts to get early claims from townies when those claims are helpful to sorting alignments (e.g. Varsoon's information, miller claims, etc.) or to avoiding catastrophe (e.g. Irrelephant's PGO claim). Yes, roles sometimes help confirm players as town (e.g. vig shooting mafia, doctor preventing a nightkill), but competent scum also fake these sorts of behaviors (e.g. forfeiting nightkill to fakeclaim doctor/bulletproof). I don't see why players place so much value in roles when they don't help nearly as much as people seem to think. From what I've seen, they often lead to mislynches (scum love to push mislynches through role analysis).

I also think most players put too much weight into investigation. I've seen scum fake investigative results in most of my theme games, mini or large. I've seen town get faulty results in half my theme games. I've seen town get mislynched because of faulty guilty results. I've seen scum get cleared from faulty innocents. The reality is that you never know if the investigation has been screwed with by a redirector, bus driver, lawyer, framer, etc. The benefit of investigations from my perspective is to corroborate behavioral reads (e.g. in RC's recent game, an investigative result corroborated strong townreads on NSG and scumreads on Nico), or to encourage players to reevaluate someone you've been townreading (i.e. to combat confirmation bias). I'd never lynch someone because of a guilty, nor clear someone because of an innocent investigation.

I also think the players talking about "game-throwing" in this game because we outed Varsoon's information are overreacting. We outed some information. So what? If he dies, he dies. If he doesn't, he doesn't. The benefit of outing him is that we're getting stronger townreads on his slot, as well as valuable behavioral reactions from Nancy. From my perspective, that's much more useful than keeping his information hidden. I feel more comfortable townreading both him & Nancy after this, which means we're refining our reads in productive ways due to Varsoon's play. It also hedges against the risk that he dies before he outs the information. I see this as a win-win.

And i've had games where i've had to drag townies kicking and screaming to a win because they didn't want to lynch real scum that I had a guilty on because "they are so obviously town". Truth is most people just aren't that good at reading others and results are far more reliable.

I think you ideally need to pay attention to BOTH. Ignoring either one, is gamethrowing in my mind.

[AlmostNancy]

@nauci ah the newbie one - that one was a very unusual one so town had some luck in that one. Wasn't foreseeing a lynch on either of us in that newbie game
The quick hammer came from town too
Fun times .

There's at least two scum in Key, Mew, Mitillos, Xtom, or

Performer

.

Key should be investigating within this group

if he isn't lynched today.

I agree with this.

xtox has become a null read instead of an sr. Keys has dropped in read for me but as a claimed investigative, Keys should be able to help narrow down the pool in here - and we could sort as time goes on, if it's a fake claim.

I've got AN , Nauci , tw as tr.

I thought you were paying attention in YGM?

[AlmostNancy]

Why aren't you townreading me, Performer?

He modded me in YGM and then he said I miseppped Kokichi. I’m doing pretty much the same thing here I did in YGM.