Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

FYI you guys have never explained what the message actually contains

[Dunnstral]

scum doc could exist with a vig in the game - lets not forget mechs here.

Maybe but I think that is sort of unlikely

I think it's more likely that their roleblocker would be a jailkeeper if that were the case

[Dunnstral]

Is there any mechanical reason for the vig to reveal itself?

No, I don't think there's a reason to finish mass claim today either

If I'm missing something let me know

[Dunnstral]

Gonna have to concur with PB, I was keeping it mysterious. I did consider explaining it more but then if I sent it to scum then why am i showing them my hand when town should just be trusting me

Especially the sending it to Nancy part. Imagine if I got some claims, sent em to nancy, died, and scum fucked up and changed a claim. I guess it was unlikely but still i didnt think it necessary

CLEARLY town doesnt trust me though and I was wrong to think so

I don't think Nancy is targetable with night actions, as a stump

[Dunnstral]

MT not even bothering to respond to my obvious hard FOS on them is worrying.

I think ur town and i believe you

Did I miss something about it

Gonna have to concur with PB, I was keeping it mysterious. I did consider explaining it more but then if I sent it to scum then why am i showing them my hand when town should just be trusting me

Especially the sending it to Nancy part. Imagine if I got some claims, sent em to nancy, died, and scum fucked up and changed a claim. I guess it was unlikely but still i didnt think it necessary

CLEARLY town doesnt trust me though and I was wrong to think so

I don't think Nancy is targetable with night actions, as a stump

The stumps were targetable in the last game I think. Also, in a regular game of mafia, a stump is a player who counts as dead but is still a player, right? In Forest Fire stumps were still very much part of the game and targetable with night actions, as they are in the last versus game

Pedit: I guess that part doesn't work then. Sigh

I guess it is on a per-mod basis.

I think most mods wouldn't allow you to target dead players with roles that don't specifically interact with dead players
A stump counts as a dead player who is able to talk

[Dunnstral]

Hey like... in two lines or less... why is a scum strongman/roleblocker suggested? Two lines or less please I don't need a big explanation I'm a fast learner I swear

dkkoba claims to have targeted morty and rick with a rolestop, but morty and rick died anyway

[Dunnstral]

5uffering
Gamma
Dunnstral
W+P

These seem like very safe scum reads :\.

@Toog can we get a readslist from you, thanks?

I will put a disclaimer ahead of time that my reads in each section are in no particular order. Apparently you guys think that in a category something at the top means strongest, which for me is never the case. The strongest is the category itself. If I want someone to know who my #1 town read is, I'll emphasize it.

Town for sure:

Fey
Pink Ball

Town-leans as of right now

Clidd**
Olaf

Dkkoba

PoE

Morning Tweet

War and Peace

Starcrossed

KidAmn

*
SaraharaS*
Red Eyed Knights*

Dunnstral

*means I actually have like, zero, read on this slot at all. I don't pay attention to them, and I have literally no idea what contributions they have to the game. I pay attention to Nancy, and a bit of the conversation that is happening when I am actively there, and I have skipped everything else.

**has a good chance of actually being near town for sure based on interactions with scum, but I haven't paid that much attention and to the slot and it's more of a guess.

4030 feels disingenuous looking back and comparing to his current reads

[Dunnstral]

Isn't dkkoba a vanilla cop

other one. Kidamn claimed that

[Dunnstral]

Morty and Rick has died. They were a

Vanilla Townie

Sherlock and Watson has died. They were a

1-shot Dayvig

Morty and Rick were supposed to be protected. :(

Scum has a dayvig??? Dafuq? Whomever shot Krazy, you have my utmost gratitude.

I'm deeply confused because I submitted a rolestop on M&R, but Gamma had claimed down to even-night so who fuckin knows

I'm also hella busy with RL this morning and 193 pages is not an easy catchup so bear with me y'all

[Dunnstral]

For fucks sake let me check who replaced who then 'cause I'm lost

No you're right, I mixed them up

[Dunnstral]

I don't really think kidamn slot fake-claimed their role

And if they're not faking their role, they're more likely to be town just because mafia died at night

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral reads a bit defensive this game.

Is that supposed to mean I'm scum?

@Dunn what is your opinion on Tweetie/Batsumi?

I was still thinking town, the Tweetie cipher thing I don't have an opinion on whether Tweetie could come up with that or not. It sounds like she could. The target selection makes sense to me and figuring out the role is a fine motive.

I think I need more from Akarin right now

[Dunnstral]

nancy u make me nervous that u dont even remotely fos me ........................................ im so messy

Why does that make you nervous

[Dunnstral]

ircher is there a reason you don't just skip ~100 pages that you can't read and start from the new day?

Why couldn't you catch up at night?

I get you're doing a 10 pages per day thing

[Dunnstral]

When was the last time Akarin posted?

I believe they said they were going into this game with the intention of doing more because they felt bad for hydra partners or something, but they just haven't been posting here

I guess that's, like, nai

[Dunnstral]

I also don’t understand his srs on you/Sarah.

For me at least he never explained it and I can't help but feel that it's reactionary from me pushing him

[Dunnstral]

It's mostly because I feel incredibly guilty recent hydras and I swore I wouldn't let anyone else down.

And because I'm feeling weirdly energized tonight.

[Dunnstral]

dunnstral - So I initially had dunnstral as middle of the road in the sense that I didn't feel strongly about them one way or the other and too lazy to check what is normal for them, but their iso made me really interested in knowing if their curt posting style was normal for them (spoiler: it is). I thought it was a waste of time at first, but then I noticed a difference between their town and mafia game
mafia game town game
It's not easily noticed at first, but once you see it it's hard to unsee. The thing that their town game has that their mafia game doesn't is

passion

. The closest they came to passion in their mafia game was when they were on the chopping block. And even though their mafia game was as a replacement, that town game was a vs game just like this one. The fact that they are ostensibly not-vanilla + the difference in posting between the two vs games makes this easy VOTE: dunnstral
/quote]

So why are you voting me here then? Still doesn't really make sense to me. Just how passionate was I in the last vs game you linked?

The fact that they are ostensibly not-vanilla

Uh, what?

[Dunnstral]

dunnstral - So I initially had dunnstral as middle of the road in the sense that I didn't feel strongly about them one way or the other and too lazy to check what is normal for them, but their iso made me really interested in knowing if their curt posting style was normal for them (spoiler: it is). I thought it was a waste of time at first, but then I noticed a difference between their town and mafia game
mafia game town game
It's not easily noticed at first, but once you see it it's hard to unsee. The thing that their town game has that their mafia game doesn't is

passion

. The closest they came to passion in their mafia game was when they were on the chopping block. And even though their mafia game was as a replacement, that town game was a vs game just like this one. The fact that they are ostensibly not-vanilla + the difference in posting between the two vs games makes this easy VOTE: dunnstral

So why are you voting me here then? Still doesn't really make sense to me. Just how passionate was I in the last vs game you linked?

The fact that they are ostensibly not-vanilla

Uh, what?

[Dunnstral]

Also, regarding Dunnstral: You say the most about him, but it's not even correct regarding his meta. I have seen town games where he has no presence and passion; you're using a small sample size to try and frame him a certain way that isn't actually true.

am I right in those examples?

No, I don't think I look similar to the scum game you linked at all

[Dunnstral]

Everyone ISO Sherlock and Watson and give me 3 townreads and 3 scumreads solely based on that.

Going just off the iso I'll say:

Town: Olaf, Morning Tweet, Fey
Scum: Starcrossed, Pink Ball, War and Peace
IDK: Clidd

[Dunnstral]

Do you think Mafia are the ones calling the shots or are in the need to push someone right now? The day just got skipped and town is without NAR and a break to analyze things. This is not just at me, I mean in general. I would very much expect scum to just lay low and then hope town pushes a bad lead again.

I think, depending on Nancy's Mason choices, scum could very likely be steering a great deal of conversation. Influencing things they want us to see. If Nancy has aggressive Masons, then scum might be hiding a bit more, but if Nancy's Masonry is a little more..."meek" then it gives scum plenty of leash to work with and keep some conversation where they want it.

---

Side note: Because I keep paying close attention to Sherlock and Watson, mainly because I feel strangely bothered by how nice they are being to my slot, for some reason I have started looking at Morty (and Rick) as Moriarty.

/tangent

---

Side note 2: Batsu reminds me a bit of mastina from Pooky v Flava. Going ho on Day 1, causes BM to get poofed, and then goes into a more passive state. Thought it was an interesting parallel. Batsu is towny, as was mastina in that game, and I just think it was interesting.

/tangent

---

I feel like Nancy deserves all the thanks I can give her since I honestly don't have a clue how I am being townread without her help. Either that, or I am being buddied hardcore by some slots.

I still defer my vote to Nancy to use how she wants me to use it. However, I think I would place it on one of War and Peace, 5uffering, or Moriarty. Less inclined to push Gamma at the moment than I was earlier, I've actually liked some of their last few things. cliff seems like the current target, I wasn't even aware they were playing. I've just been glossing over a lot of the same names with inflated post counts.

That's about all I have after my quick skim from my last post.

Possibly anti-associative.

3443

I still don't think their read on S & W makes sense here given the quoted post above

[Dunnstral]

However, I will say:
I would expect {

Sherlock and Watson

, Starcrossed,

Rogue Squadron

, Toogeloo} as being a pool of fairly high-priority picks for Titus. Probably not all four of them, especially given the draft mechanic, but there's a fairly high chance of scum in there.

Rogue squadron slot has an inno check on them, Sherlock slot flipped scum

Do we think Morty and Rick died solely for their Sherlock and Watson read? I think Toogeloo fits as scum here

[Dunnstral]

Everyone ISO Sherlock and Watson and give me 3 townreads and 3 scumreads solely based on that.

Going just off the iso I'll say:

Town: Olaf, Morning Tweet, Fey
Scum: Starcrossed, Pink Ball, War and Peace
IDK: Clidd

Krazy kept trying to push Saudade/PB and wanted him and REK gun checked.

Fair, I was looking at interactions around when pb replaced in from sherlock's side

[Dunnstral]

(and if it was a rule this game to have no investigatives scum are aware of this)

Vanilla cop would have to be lying too

[Dunnstral]

so both me and Kanna independently thought Tooges actually looks kind of townie from Krazy's ISO:



this is the most over the top example but there are so many posts effusively praising Toogey that we think it resembles Scum trying to buddy up/pocket a townie rather than a scum/scum relationship/moonlogic.

Also I am very swayed by Tooges fatalistic disregard for his own health, willing to die and "get it over with"

it is very similar to what I saw in Pooky vs FL when he was willing to jump on top of a super saint and blow himself up and Death Curse when he willingly took the first scroll.

I know a lot of people scumread Fatalism, but in the case of Toogey I believe it is geniune townie frustration seeping out.

I don't think it's fatalism, I think it's just... not doing anything. Either being lazy or hoping the wagon goes away

[Dunnstral]

???

[Dunnstral]

What has people suspicious of us, I guess, and what happened to the votes?

You were inno checked by the GS claim.

[Dunnstral]

given TRs on Starcrossed/Olaf i can see REK being a mafia goon (specifically goon) based on this post

what part of REK being confirmed town isn't clicking with you people

scum doctor can exist but sure.

again, I doubt there'd be a scum doctor for the gs here

so for the iso read

town: clidd/toog/olaf

scum: WP/?/? i really don't know, i haven't found anything super incriminating in the ISO, maybe i'll ask pooky

reconsider: 5uffering slot

~mitsuha

as soon as i start to push onto dunns i see fingers start to try to point at me

dont think i dont notice this

You think it's both me and starcrossed?

Nancy, I have a target in mind, idk if u think its a good idea here, but let me know if you're like reading my mind here with who I'm planning on. rolestopper should go on GS claim here.

Rolestopper is even night but if we have other unclaimed protectives they can be on gs claim, or wherever nancy wants it

[Dunnstral]

Nancy I'm thinking mass claim today. I can start

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dunnstral
War and Peace's push onto him is really weird if he's town and does them no favours because it was an unpopular push
BUT if he's scum then maybe the logic they were using makes sense to them and they thought it'd make them look towny because they're technically correct
also they get some distancing in

I don't really understand your reasons but you shouldn't vote me just based on what they did

[Dunnstral]

Lmao you know what's hilarious? I checked REK and got redirected to a live person.

Gonna let whoever did that claim b4 i out it

I think I claim before you today

[Dunnstral]

Lmao you know what's hilarious? I checked REK and got redirected to a live person.

Gonna let whoever did that claim b4 i out it

I think I claim before you today

Whod u redirect to

oh no I didn't redirect or do the redirecting. I just wanted to get my info out first

[Dunnstral]

I'm waiting for nancy's blessings

[Dunnstral]

yeah it's my first instinct Dunny
i'll be looking at you closely when i have some time

I was pushing war and peace day 1
The reason I stopped pushing was their claim making sense to me

[Dunnstral]

Ok claim already

Wait. I figured soemthing out abt the redirect I think and i don't think its getting claimed cuz its a scum ability.

Scum redirector would explain why morty and rick died with kidamn slot claiming to rolestop them.

That said, I don't see why scum redirects you after you claimed vanilla cop. Feels more like a town trying to prove they have an ability.

Or maybe they just didn't realize that you'd be told you were redirected?

[Dunnstral]

Wait, the compulsive vanillaizer makes so much sense now. Who was defending that slot? I think it's possible that scum didn't even want to elim italiano

[Dunnstral]

Nancy I'm thinking mass claim today. I can start

I was kihd’ve thinking the same thing.

Great minds and all.

Btw, @Tweetie, who did you message last night? Check anyone?

So I can go ahead and claim or should I wait?

[Dunnstral]

nah this is driver type redirection. 0 reason to change my target from dead to live

That doesn't explain how the rolestopper claim failed on night 2

[Dunnstral]

nah this is driver type redirection. 0 reason to change my target from dead to live

That doesn't explain how the rolestopper claim failed on night 2

There would also need to be a strongman/roleblocker

Do we think the scum team is 4 prs? 2 have flipped

[Dunnstral]

I'm an odd-night doctor

Night 1 was skipped

Night 3 I was on Starcrossed

I didn't get any kind of notification that I was redirected

Because of my role I thought that Kidamn's claim was very believable (it was claimed before the rolecop could do anything, too)

I argued against mafia having a doctor, but my own role and the vanilla cop claim made me think the gunsmith claim was more believable as well

[Dunnstral]

I found the vig so its a moot point

How? You should only be able to see vanilla or not vanilla

[Dunnstral]

I'm an odd-night doctor

Night 1 was skipped

Night 3 I was on Starcrossed

I didn't get any kind of notification that I was redirected

Because of my role I thought that Kidamn's claim was very believable (it was claimed before the rolecop could do anything, too)

I argued against mafia having a doctor, but my own role and the vanilla cop claim made me think the gunsmith claim was more believable as well

Yo?

What?

odd night protective
even night protective

no?

Two GATED protectives.

weaker than a full rolestopper

[Dunnstral]

Fey to clarify.

I didn't say he was town for sure. I said the role is believable. It fits well.

[Dunnstral]

I don't really think kidamn slot fake-claimed their role

And if they're not faking their role, they're more likely to be town just because mafia died at night

[Dunnstral]

This, basically. Mafia died on night 2.

why werent u on me/kidamn?

To be blunt, I think that Starcrossed is a mason, which is why I protected there.

They don't confirm or deny, of course

I don't think your role is very useful. I didn't think that kidamn would die/they failed to protect someone/I'm not 100% on them being town. I just think the role is really believable

[Dunnstral]

Sorry I'm not even thinking about mechanics right now I"m thinking it's a real strange thing to see another protective and instinctually trust it rather than be like "No, that's mine."

I don't think the two roles are super strong together?

I don't think it's significantly stronger than just having a full rolestopper, or a full doctor

Again, let me reiterate: I'm not sure that Kidamn is town. I am leaning that they are town. I think it is very likely that their claim is real (so they're either scum or town with the role)

If scum have a redirection ability, I'm inclined to believe that the last mafia is indeed a vanilla role

[Dunnstral]

you thought both protectives with an ungated gunsmith made the gunsmith claim more believable?
you didn't think that was too much power?
also what do you mean the vanilla cop claim made you think the gunsmith was more believable as well?

Vanilla cop carries a gun. i.e. false guilty
Doctor is a role that never has a gun, which is why I thought gunsmith felt believeable (even though I'm town and don't have a gun, it made sense to me that I'd be made to look suspicious for being doctor with a gs in the game)

[Dunnstral]

I argued against mafia having a doctor, but my own role and the vanilla cop claim made me think the gunsmith claim was more believable as well

this makes no sense to me Dunny
you really need to explain why you thought two protectives that can cover all nights made you think the gunsmith was MORE believable and not less

Roleblockers, strongmans. And especially the day vig flipped. I think that was after the claim though, but I was thinking about that

[Dunnstral]

also guess what

I didn't want to counter claim anything before I could use my ability at least once

[Dunnstral]

Occam's razor just suggests to me the doctor is mafia-aligned to avoid the gunsmith and aid the scumteam.

But the gunsmith claim was scum

[Dunnstral]

Also, doctor for vig.

They only shot once and it was on an even night.
That's all the information I have right now.

I guess you think I could be lying about being odd-night.

[Dunnstral]

Oh right, yeah, sorry, ingrained into my mind they were real gunsmith. Huh.

But like I said

I thought my role made the gunsmith more believable because I can see people sussing me out because of a real gunsmith being in the game

That's what I was trying to get at

[Dunnstral]

I just think it's a convenient claim that scum could make

Yeah well, it's my actual role so I don't know what you expect me to do here as town

[Dunnstral]

This, basically. Mafia died on night 2.

why werent u on me/kidamn?

To be blunt, I think that Starcrossed is a mason, which is why I protected there.

They don't confirm or deny, of course

I don't think your role is very useful. I didn't think that kidamn would die/they failed to protect someone/I'm not 100% on them being town. I just think the role is really believable

My role actually is getting incredible value rn

Because it revealed a redirection effect, sure. I had no way of knowing that would happen, and thought that all scum would true claim vanilla/not vanilla due to your role.

[Dunnstral]

The driver ccs the doc rn - as far as im concerned

from my point of view driver ccs rolestopper

Especially because the failed protect was on night 2, but also because rolestopper is a bit stronger than doctor, and driver is way stronger than doctor

[Dunnstral]

redirector is prob scum so i don't think dunn claimed as sucm but as town afraid i had a not vanilla check on them

I already soft claimed not vanilla by not claiming vt when asked.

I wanted to claim before you because I wanted to clear up any doubt on my stance yesterday and because my role related to another living role

[Dunnstral]

Oh yeah, I also thought that kidamn being town made sense because then it would reduce swing from when fey decided to use their ability.

I'm not sure if that's correct or not; I actually think fey's role was just a counter to the day vig (and town)

[Dunnstral]

Wait wait wait, Pooky, was that a vig claim?

they're in the wrong thread, I believe

[Dunnstral]

Hey, I wasn't enjoying the game earlier so I had to rep out but changed my mind shortly after and let Alisae know to sub me back in if that slot ever opened up again.

olaf did brilliantly in my absence

Hey, hey, hey!

Welcome back, are we still down to powersolve? I was sad because olaf didn't seem the type to do that. :/

Sure, set a time and place and we can rip this thread apart and burn it to the ground.

I missed this go-getter attitude, champ! <3

What do you think about the VC I just posted?

Assuming scum is on the wagon to bus, which I think the odds of happening for a slot like W+P is reasonable, I only think of those, Sarah or Starcrossed are likely scum from my own reads. KidAmn is a fringe case.

Opinions?

What do you think of my theory that the driver means scum didn't want to kill italiano on day 1?

[Dunnstral]

Where do you want to vote today, Dunny?

Toogeloo, for reasons I outlined yesterday.

I don't think w & p flipping scum changes anything in regards to that, what do you think?

[Dunnstral]

ok Pink Ball's town

we're killing clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith italiano, rolestop me, replacement vanilla cops mastina

lock it in and let's wrap this shit up

vanilla cop will still be important since the vanilla cop claims result before the rest of massclaim

Flip clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith Akarin, rolestop {pool of S&W and Sarah}, replacement vanilla cops Olaf

Lock?

This looks pretty good for clidd I think

This post reminds me that all of s & w's commanding where the gunsmith should check actually means nothing

[Dunnstral]

Also yesterday toogeloo was all "nancy, i'll vote with you" all day but then didn't even vote at the end

[Dunnstral]

Hey, I wasn't enjoying the game earlier so I had to rep out but changed my mind shortly after and let Alisae know to sub me back in if that slot ever opened up again.

olaf did brilliantly in my absence

Hey, hey, hey!

Welcome back, are we still down to powersolve? I was sad because olaf didn't seem the type to do that. :/

Sure, set a time and place and we can rip this thread apart and burn it to the ground.

I missed this go-getter attitude, champ! <3

What do you think about the VC I just posted?

Assuming scum is on the wagon to bus, which I think the odds of happening for a slot like W+P is reasonable, I only think of those, Sarah or Starcrossed are likely scum from my own reads. KidAmn is a fringe case.

Opinions?

What do you think of my theory that the driver means scum didn't want to kill italiano on day 1?

I have the mind of a bumblebee when it comes to mechanics quite frankly but if there is a driver it makes sense, yes.

I'm just going to assume that you're saying driver = vanillaizing PRs for town because I don't actually remember the case and I'm too lazy to look back.

compulsive

vanillaizer

plus a scum role that redirects

That's like, an extra power role for scum

[Dunnstral]

has everyone spoken thus far?

no

[Dunnstral]

kanna does not endorse that opinion

im also driving

this is a driver claim if any
VOTE: starcrossed

Also I see this but want clarification from pooky

[Dunnstral]

kanna does not endorse that opinion

im also driving

this is a driver claim if any
VOTE: starcrossed

ROFL WTF R U TALKING ABOUT

are you posting in the wrong thread or not?

[Dunnstral]

I'd believe it in a setup like this, I just wonder the merit of a driver plus that AND a vig.

What does this mean? Like what are you thinking that means

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Toogeloo

[Dunnstral]

Nancy did any of your cute little mason-servants post a claims list in the PT you can give me? I don't remember anyone's claims and it's scary out here.

Dunnstral - Odd-night Doctor
Kidamn - Even-night Rolestopper
Fey - 1-shot night skipper
DKKoba - Vanilla Cop

Pink Ball/Sarah/Clidd/Toogeloo/Olaf/Starcrossed/Morning Tweet - VT, or vig, or mason

[Dunnstral]

I would be more energetic for the Toog wagon if it happened yesterday.

Not vibing rn.

Why?

What changed with the flip?

I tried the toog wagon yesterday

[Dunnstral]

Nancy did any of your cute little mason-servants post a claims list in the PT you can give me? I don't remember anyone's claims and it's scary out here.

Dunnstral - Odd-night Doctor
Kidamn - Even-night Rolestopper
Fey - 1-shot night skipper
DKKoba - Vanilla Cop

Pink Ball/Sarah/Clidd/Toogeloo/Olaf/Starcrossed/Morning Tweet - VT, or vig, or mason

Tweetie claimed messager/checker. Who did you message last night? @Tweetie?

Right, I forgot that claim

[Dunnstral]

also i think driver + vig is fine cuz if u drive away a vig shot its likely away from ur partner.

Koba REK who you copped was killed, it means you were the one redirected not REK. Who were you redirected to? Did you claim that yet?

Mafia can shoot at the other person to redirect it to REK if it's a driver

[Dunnstral]

Who's the gunsmith? I think Nancy should execute them.

Such a weird post. I can totally see this as a bad distance attempt.

Why would toogeloo want the gunsmith executed if he is claiming vt and doesn't know who the gunsmith is?

[Dunnstral]

What are you thinking for today then?

[Dunnstral]

Who's the gunsmith? I think Nancy should execute them.

Such a weird post. I can totally see this as a bad distance attempt.

Why would toogeloo want the gunsmith executed if he is claiming vt and doesn't know who the gunsmith is?

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I think he knows who the gunsmith claim is and is feigning ignorance to make himself look unaligned with War and Peace since he would know if they shared a scum PT. But it's just unlikely he doesn't know at that point and the "Nancy should execute them" reads as fake.

I'm agreeing with you

I'm saying that toogeloo as town doesn't have a reason to say "we should execute the gunsmith"

[Dunnstral]

So if we assume 3 pr and 1 vanilla scum, and that 1 pr is driver, that just means Tweetie is town

[Dunnstral]

Okay, this means KidAmn is town.

Well Toog could be goon then but I’d prefer it if we could kill the bus driver, since driver negates the usefulness of the protects,

Obviously not opposed, dead scum is still dead scum but the bus driver is hiding inside a fake vanilla claim and if we don’t lim then, scum will bus drive you, Dunn, Kidamn with them.

Omg I just realized how potentially dangerous Italiano’s role could be because of bus driver.

we have the messenger and vanilla cop target at night and see if we can catch any more redirects

Assume that bus driver can't target themself

[Dunnstral]

Okay, this means KidAmn is town.

Well Toog could be goon then but I’d prefer it if we could kill the bus driver, since driver negates the usefulness of the protects,

Obviously not opposed, dead scum is still dead scum but the bus driver is hiding inside a fake vanilla claim and if we don’t lim then, scum will bus drive you, Dunn, Kidamn with them.

Omg I just realized how potentially dangerous Italiano’s role could be because of bus driver.

we have the messenger and vanilla cop target at night and see if we can catch any more redirects

Assume that bus driver can't target themself

Keeping in mind that we also have a rolestopper

Night actions are going to be challenging, though

[Dunnstral]

I do think toogeloo is a mafia goon who was being protected from a vig shot, by the way.

[Dunnstral]

So wouldn’t that mean that Sarah would have to be the bus drver + Toog as goon?

VOTE: Sarah.

If sarah is scum then yes

[Dunnstral]

Nancy I'm thinking mass claim today. I can start

Btw, @Tweetie, who did you message last night? Check anyone?

It isn't helpful for me to reveal at the moment but my message was successful

KidAmn is town for Gamma being out of his scumrange I'm pretty sure.

i wil sheep this from now on as ive seen it mentioned many times. Although I was previously assuming Kid's role was necessary for town balance

Love the odd doctor even rolestopper combo (if real)

Also yesterday toogeloo was all "nancy, i'll vote with you" all day but then didn't even vote at the end

lol

i didnt get feedback with mailman when i was that role - wdym u got confirmation it was successful?

I didn't get this kind of feedback for my role

@Kidamn how about you?

[Dunnstral]

u got feedback at all?

no

[Dunnstral]

Also I was talking about tweetie's role

[Dunnstral]

i mean like the mailman confirmation is when ur target posts ur code in thread.

I see, I had read that differently

[Dunnstral]

my first thought with dunn's role was that it reminded me of the dichotomy with sherlock's day vig and the night vig, and exactly one was scum. but i suppose that's for another time

Roflmfao. Let me see if I understand this.

-Koba has an actual VANILLA clear on me (despite once again picking an extremely questionable night choice).
-Koba attempted to scan REK but got me instead, and knows they got me because my name was in the result.
-REK died, so the consensus is that SCUM bussed REK and Toogeloo, and shot Toogeloo.
-Despite my clear as being a VANILLA, I must be Mafia Vanilla.
-Which means that for all of this to come together, I SHOT MYSELF last night? (Unless you believe that the Scum Bus Driver multitasked).
-To reiterate, you all believe SCUM SHOT ONE OF THEIR OWN MEMBERS IN ORDER TO KILL REK AFTER BUSSING THEM WITH ME.

There is Moon Logic, and then there is acid-tripping Moon Logic while munching shrooms and drinking Jim Jones kool-aid. This would obviously be the latter.

and this is actually brilliant??

at the risk of looking super scummy if this flips scum, can i just ask is this really a mech guilty though? like, the bus driver is definitely scum, but could they not have driven 2 townies?

@nancy: do you want us to claim? because we will claim. just give us your blessing

~mitsuha

pooky and i also co-read WnP's iso a while ago and some notes:

- morning tweet is totally tmi'd town. look at how CONFIDENT WnP was about them being town, and i think this is the classic case of a towny townie looking ultra super towny when you're scum.
- the early "we wanna kill you," from WnP and then fey's push on WnP reads anti-associative. town
- sam had some weirdly friendly interactions with pyro that looked more like buddying than something you would say to a partner. WnP push also looks good here. town
- saudade scumread feels really fake to me. but i think this one is the one they're actually pushing. so, town. this is pink ball now though

clidd!town spewed by sherlock, Dkkoba is probably town i guess because people thought my theory yesterday was dumb + his play today i don't see coming from scum

Toogeloo/Dunn/Sarah/KidAm i think wins it!

also, happy birthday titus!

~mitsuha

For me to be scum with Toog I'd have to be pushing/bussing my whole team at one point this game

I'd argue that the town vig (with claimed modifiers) is for the driver and the night skipper is for the day vig

----

Off the top of my head alisae is a mod who would make the setup multitasking for scum more often than not

Toogeloo hasn't answered for the gunsmith thing that was pointed out. Why did you ask for the gunsmith to be executed?

[Dunnstral]

- morning tweet is totally tmi'd town. look at how CONFIDENT WnP was about them being town, and i think this is the classic case of a towny townie looking ultra super towny when you're scum.

Their role is messenger in a game state where one scum is a driver

I don't think combined messenger/driver is a role

For them to be scum there would have to be 4 prs on the scum team, too

- the early "we wanna kill you," from WnP and then fey's push on WnP reads anti-associative. town

Fey also has a power role that makes them not scum, but with extra reasons

[Dunnstral]

at the risk of looking super scummy if this flips scum, can i just ask is this really a mech guilty though? like, the bus driver is definitely scum, but could they not have driven 2 townies?

And what about the rest of their play?

[Dunnstral]

It's not a mech guilty, but it's really likely for it to be scum due to mafia potentially trying to protect from the vig, along with not knowing dkkoba's role would give them the exact person they target and maybe not expecting them to target REK

I think they are worth voting without the information from the redirect

[Dunnstral]

Hm hm hm.

I reread Sarah trying to not be tunneled and I feel like... she has a few points. I’m not as sold there as I was before.

Can you go over it for me and also what are you thinking today

[Dunnstral]

how did Gamma know to claim even-night to mesh with Dunn's role?

Basically, this

[Dunnstral]

If we're going to accept that Kid is an even-night something, i think they would have to be even-night bus driver.

Nope, dkkoba claimed redirect on an odd night

[Dunnstral]

But if we were to test out Kid's claim (say, have me send a message to someone or have italiano vanillaize) -- could bus driver convincingly reproduce rolestopper results?

Not if we investigate the rolestopped person -- that would be a dead giveaway.

I think the way dkkoba's role worked was non-standard and that scum would not have known that dkkoba could have identified the redirect

[Dunnstral]

Right................

---

I like the scum in the vts theory

VOTE: SaraharaS

This could go either way for me

[Dunnstral]

Going to reread Starcrossed soon, KidAmn as well (a good vote today, I think).

Also going to reread Clidd who I am not sold on as town from associatives alone so we’ll see.

@Nancy, massclaim time?

I don't get how kidamn can be scum if his slot claimed even-night rolestopper before I claimed
And the bus-driver is not even-night

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

Of course @Dunn, you should also take into account the context of that Gamma claim. Iirc. it happened on D2, so Gamma might have just claimed that for survival reasons since that’s when I initially pushed him for the claim.

But they still wouldn't know to claim even-night unless that was just a coincidence

[Dunnstral]

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I'm listening to you

[Dunnstral]

True but even if it is Sarah, who is her buddy then?

I don't know, I don't really have a second scumread so I should look into things more today

I agree that there is at least 1 scum in the vt claims here

Starcrossed can't be scum
Tweetie can't be bus driver on account of her role being confirmable, and is also probably town
Fey is likely town by role and play

So that is who we shouldn't elim for sure IMO

And then:

Pyro - I thought he's been townie and I'm sure fey is better at reading him than I am and she says town for sure so I'll respect that
Kidamn - I don't get how they'd fit in what seems like the perfect claim as scum on day 2 - am I missing something

Pink Ball - He's felt towny and people brought up gamma and the replace out
Clidd - Was getting pushed by scum and is being pushed by sarahara now

Sarahara - People have pointed out that her reads changed in a weird way (which could have been a mason tell so I initially ignored), and the poe is shrinking so this feels likely scum unless I'm missing something big

[Dunnstral]

It still matters because scum may have thought the vig was even night, so it could tell us something

I doubt this.

This is in the rules:

> For each mason the town stump doesn't pick, they get a one shot normal role of their choice with any normal modifier.

And yesterday Nancy claimed the vig (and starcrossed only claimed the vig today)

So the bus drive wouldn't be related to the vig, IMO

[Dunnstral]

Alrighty it's time for the KidAmn wallspews for a few hours to finally get caught up post

Strap in, lube up, come for the reads stay for the memes that's a lie there's no memes

Spoiler: Sarah

Hey! i'm Saraharas. Nice to meet everyone. I'm only a little intimidated. I wanted to call my account Pyro since that's what I use like... basically everywhere else, but it was taken so I had to go with this. If you google my name looking other accounts then ignore all the weird 'art' accounts and the tiktok. That's not my one :lol:

you guys seem to post a lot... 35 pages EEK... but i'll try to get through it as much as i can :good:

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

I'm up to page 3 now. Wow this is getting tough lol... i'll post my thoughts and stuff in a bit

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

How much have you caught up, then, Flavor Leaf?

-Morty

what's a flavor leaf?

I like the readslist.

Sarah, what's your favorite kind of pokemon? I have a role which allows me protect people at night, but it only works if I can guess their favorite pokemon. If I guess their least favorite pokemon, they die instead.

Mew

Didn't this start like... yesterday lol. How is it d2 what happened???

Did any good people claim or anything? I haven't... 100%... caught up yet.

People rushed through a miselim 2 fucking days in is what but what’s done is done, so long as it never happens again, we’ll recover.

huh, isn't that like... super dumb?

This feels like a very drawn out and disingenuous intro, but that might just be my inner asshole talking

ewww this is a lot of people backing Fay up. like why do they need this much support. Batsunami is a shining beacon of goodness and all four of you are complict in the ewness. not even talking about Bat here while you praise Fey? eewwwwww

:?

#3320-3376 in their ISO is a lot of quotes with not much content, #3321 notable for establishing Italiano "feels fake" but apart from that they don't commit to anything but Batsu and Fey as "locktown" and seemingly changing their opinion on Pyro half a dozen times within 3 posts

#3401 - distancing from Sherlock, perhaps? Also some Saudade[PB] shade.

#3736 - Fey wanting to recalibrate = good post; Gamma wanting to... catch up and telling people to avoid quickhammer is a bad post? Doesn't feel like a natural read. Shading Italiano and REK but in very open terms "bad post", "bad vote", "bad vibes, too friendly". Ditto #3746 - 5uffering's posting "[feels] like someone who's doing town work without town motivation." More "bad vibes". This feels like classical early game scum shading without anything concrete because building cases as scum in the early game is haaaaard, mom.

#3756 - "one of these flips scum minimum (Gamme/Italiano)" credits for consistency still trying to push my slot even now but with hindsight (and knowing what my role PM says) this sure looks like setting up bad chainlynches

#3758 - REALLY likes W&P's big pile of graphs that didn't really actually contribute much, distancing from Sherlock (and kind of from Titus?), all in the same post.

wow, i'm so close that i can almost see it. you'd better be around Olaf

You know what? Lets just kill 5uffering today. Nancy you are so certain this flips scum yeah?
When this flips town, you are even with me and my opinion is just as important are yours albeit more but ur a stump so we're even. Because you're about to kill a vanilla cop and all I killed was a VT.
We are about to be even just wait.
I haven't even read up yet but I have to say that the fact that we are running up a vanilla cop claim on day 2 is like not ok especially given we didnt even get a night 1.
I dont know if suffering is scum and I have had pings there but I believe that this is 100% not the optimal lim today and has a decent possibility of flipping town.

If this flips town, we are listening to me tomorrow and flashwagoning clidd. That boi is scum just watch.

NO, please stop with this. It’s antitown to undermine me like this.

it's town indicative tho...

quoting this in full because *yikes*

#3790 feels like a continuation of the classical scum tell I touched on earlier - Sarah has locktown and townleans, but doesn't commit to grouping

anyone

else into scumleans, lockscum, null, etc. Combined with the lack of commitment in prior posting... yeah, I do not like this slot. I do not like it, Sam I Am.

Lots of cozying up to Nancy, "we're vibing", "stop bullying Nancy" etc.

blah blah lots of VT number spec, 0 interest in this

Think I touched on #5429 at the time but bringing up 3rd parties when we know none exist, no es bueno

In summary, don't like this slot, lots of empty posting, lack of commitment to SRs until the dagger is at their throat, naked buddying to the stump

Spoiler: clidd

#551-#577 - not sure I agree with the reasoning, but god this is already so much more actual effort to gamesolve after reading Sarah it's refreshing

#594 - W&P being in the very early postulated townblock with 2 people who've flipped green and MT is an interesting associative. #947 almost looks like coaching after this, too.

Not sure how I feel about them pushing Charlie and Snoopy early, then continuing on 5uffering until they're satisfied with their wall/s to catch up, while W&P gets a fairly easy town-pass in the same timeframe. Still getting the impression they're actually trying to gamesolve though. On this line of thinking, the time they spend on Saudade feels like more effort in a push than scum would invest here, and Saudade not exactly helping with shit like "Ask nancy for the solve im not doing shit this game lol"

man how wild would it be if all these Sherlock gifs were just openwolfing (this isn't serious, but man what a coinkydink that'd be)

Morty, Sherlock, Fey and Pyro are a very strong set. I don't think they are all town.

Based on what?

Speculation. I imagine the game would be very easy if all of these were town.

I forgot to include it, but you are also on that list.

Weird parallel. One now-flipped scum in their early postulated townbloc, one now-flipped scum in this PoE.

Actually, I'm townleaning you Sam but scumreading Ircher :shifty:

I remembered that you got in the middle of that game and probably didn't read the beginning. If you had read my entry there and compared to here I would have expected an automatic scumread, which is the reason for my suspicion early.

:?

#3319 is their next readlist - I don't see scum being so bold as to have 2 buds in their heavy townreads, but deepwolfing is a thing. This ISO is harder to read for reasons I can't put my finger on, but the content feels like there's more gamesolve effort than I'd expect scum to put up.

Not crazy about the 5uffering push, but credit for commitment

My impression is that the W/P slot is possibly town in the sense of reads.

But if they are the best elimination for today due to some mechanical reason, it's fine.

My preference, after a re-read, is between Toog, Gamma, Rek and maybe Dk.

The priority around 5suf (Dk) has dropped a bit due to the flips, but I still have a strong scummy impression whenever I take a look at his ISO.

Feels very fence-sitting, "ugh I guess if it's mech fiiine" and their pool of preferences is 4 townies

It doesn't bother me if the elimination is on W/P today, although I won't be part of the wagon.

And I still think that Toog is scum, but I don't promise accuracy in this read.

Sara is a potential candidate for deepwolf.

But I'm not interested in voting her today.

Clidd are you Keir Starmer and if not are you best friends on account of how much time you spend on the fence

I lost interest.

UNVOTE: Toogeloo

*Theory*

I don't think

{Fey, Sara, Olaf and Dk}

is a set 100% town, otherwise the game would be much more easier.

Dk

has been more towny recently and I believe that

Olaf

's metadive on me was in good faith/from an uninformed perspective trying to assess me.

Fey

seemed to have a hidden suspicion about Sherlock and the way she positioned herself before the night didn’t strike me as a scum partner.

What by PoE would denounce

Sara

as being the scum in this group.

Part of me thinks this doesn't feel like a logical progression on Sarah from "not interested in voting her today" to "well by PoE Sara has to be scum" but also they remain committed to the whole "I'm not voting there today". Could be weird scum theatre, but seems illogical to have last 2 scum going at each other like this

Saudade's departure is more likely to be town frustrated than scum frustrated imo. The way he dealt with me suspecting him so intensely is different from the scum!Saudade reaction. PB didn't do much after entering, but although I have no idea of ​​the scum!PB pattern of behavior, the towny impression I had of Saudade before he left the slot is strong enough for me to still consider the slot as town.

Person who spent from #1101 to #2880 with their vote on Saudade/PB and continually reiterated their suspicion of Saudade throughout suddenly decides actually, no, their reactions to that were fine. Bruh.

Weird slot, lots of weird interactions, but generally feels like trying to gamesolve on behalf of town; the inconsistencies bug me though. Maybe I haven't played enough Mafia recently but I can't sort this.

Spoiler: Dunn

Think my perception of this slot will be coloured somewhat by their claim lining up with mine which gives me an inclination to mech-read them as town, but here we go

Holy bus this is a lot of early game goodposting, I forgot how fastpaced the first few IRL days of this game were

#284 with the W&P soulread, #356 with the Sherlock soulread (also I don't think Sherlock pivots onto Scum!Dunn there that early but poss. scum theater? Doubt it.)

look I'm gonna be honest I'm at #4898 or so in the ISO and this just

screams

town to me, if Dunn is scum GG WP great pocket the only post I haven't liked is #1094 and even then it's in a "yeah that's a weird hydra self-interaction but idk about voting for it chief" way

Spoiler: Batsu/MT

Jesus christ this early game vomit - almost assuredly NAI but I hate it

I'd wait but I do have places to be before my 90th birthday.

Momma bearrrrrrr I think you are very berry smart because if you chose me I would've called you totus forever and then you would've regretted it big time :P

:vomiting:

A dunnstral SR is forming because of this post:

How much 'patience' do you really need to google deja vu and get the accents?

Last time I played with town you, you were so serious and your vibe was "lets get down to business I have no time for your bullshit baby talk, Noraa"
This time ... you're shitposting?

A dunnstral SR is forming because of this post:

How much 'patience' do you really need to google deja vu and get the accents?

Last time I played with town you, you were so serious and your vibe was "lets get down to business I have no time for your bullshit baby talk, Noraa"
This time ... you're shitposting?

How is that a shitpost?? I think it's totally serious in response to the read... I don't get this SR.

Ok I'll admit that I didn't read that post carefully enough but it caught my attention because the tone was off. After almost finishing catching up, I'm 90% sure Dunn is scum here. The reason is quite simple. It's a tell that I picked up a while back - Dunn is doing a lot of short replies and many that are pretty mellow and a lot that are in the form of questions. This type of thing could be subconscious or on purpose but it helps you go unnoticed because your opinions and your voice is softer. Does that make any sense?

VOTE: Dunnstral

Press X to Doubt

god, 216 posts in and already on #44 of Batsu/MT ISO, this is *draining* and there's so much that isn't useful at all, just hyperposting for the sake of it

Fey you need to learn to chill your ass out sometimes. Those flimsy questions you asked aren't hard at all for me to answer but you're annoying me so I'm going to ignore you and when someone ignores you, it' means they're annoyed and you chillax and try again later. You dont just repeat the question ten times and expect them to suddenly calm down and answer.

:facepalm: This early game is making me seriously question everyone else TRing this slot, but it could just be that I really,

really

dislike Noraa because by the look of it this entire first few pages of useless spew is them

Sherlock is scummy. The awkward push on Italiano and the pivot onto me.

nah.

I can't fight the Dunn SR. My entire heart and soul believes it. Someone help. Nancy. Nancy. Nancy. help. tell me if I'm right or wrong. I'm going insane with confidence.

Don't deny our mason love noraa

Our mason love cannot be confined to our mason pt <3 <3 <3

-S

No it cannot <33333333333

I can't fight the Dunn SR. My entire heart and soul believes it. Someone help. Nancy. Nancy. Nancy. help. tell me if I'm right or wrong. I'm going insane with confidence.

I’m currently null on him. He could definitely possibly one of Titus’ picks but so far, he’s not pinging me, Why do you think he’s scum here?

Very. Very. Very. Very fucking strong gut. Nancy do you believe in my gut? if you do, try to figure out why Dunn is scum because I dont fucking know how to put it into words. I hate that I can't but I really dont know how to but I just know deep in my soul that Dunn is scum here. I just know. Please helppp :(

God I just really hate this slot. This whole "nah Dunn is scum I don't have a case just real strong gut trust me Nancy" thing is really rubbing me up the wrong way.

#442 reinforces that I just don't like the Noraa head of this hydra, this is much more reasonable; still hate posts like #470 though


IDK if this is AI at all but this level of posting makes it real hard for me to read people when so much of it is meaningless noise just through pure fatigue

I am telling you that I will willingly die if BM flips town because I know for a fact that he is scum. This is a tell that has ALWAYS worked for me.

Flashwagon me tomorrow if BM flips town. I guarantee 100% that he will not. I hate pushing meta tells because people always ignore me and let them become deep wolves but given that I am UTR here and command some authority, I am asking for town to believe in me and help me. Think about it. Whats the worse that could happen? BM flips town. Big deal.

It's day 1 and your top tR is telling you that they have caught many scum using a specific meta tell. Believe in her.

Day 1: Battle Mage was a VT

(Obviously if BM flips town, I'm not getting nk'ed)

But he won't so I'll probably get nk'ed. Even more likely scenario is that everyone ignores me and he becomes a deep wolf which is the stupidest shit ever but whatever. If that happens, it happens and I can't do anything about it.

:shifty:

Thanks for sheeping me, everyone.

-Morty

I get the credit. Btw did I even vote for BM? Cant remember but for good measure
VOTE: BM

Amazing deflection

You really think I picked someone who hates scum?

Lol this stump wifom is good. Momma bear realizes her precious baby BM is going under because Noraa is attacking him so she comes to discredit me. Good one.

Oh good we're WIFOM WIFOMing

The constant denunciation of BM and insistence they'll die if he's town is grating and in hindsight mildly concerning

god this readthrough has taken twice as long as everyone else so far and I'm not even halfway through death to hyperposters

i think if im scum with noraa here, i probably dont have her as my top townread. and i probably lurk out because i'd be super pissed at being bussed so horribly

You will never kill me by associations scum.

Help me find out who she’s shielding. I think you’re probably a miselim and specifically because of Pooky vs FL, I would prefer you not be the D1 wagon.

No Nancy. Deepwolf potentials either die day 1 or become a deep wolf. We need to get rid of him day 1.
Look how much you like him and want to save him. Think about if there was a single person that wanted to save him in pookyvflava except pooky who has RL connections with him.
There were none. There is so much resistance to this wagon and he seems so so towny. Those are clear scum indicators.

I'm genuinely torn between how hard this tunnel is and how awful the posting around it has been, there's been 0 case just "DK TELL DK TELL TRUST ME I GOT THIS BUT SOMEONE ELSE PWEASE PUSH IT 'CAUSE I CAN'T DK TELL DK TELL" and I see all the Nancy osfting but... UUUGH

Well I would be going Dunnstral now because he's been sideline-y

You guaranteed BM was flipping scum.

I was really convinced :(

Take the time to reevaluate, Nora.

BM's flip doesn't make you anymore town. I'm just in no position to push you right now.

Wasn't your reasoning for Clidd being scum related to Bm being scum?

Ye but I still don't really believe this is town clidd. Again, I'm not going to push this today but I do not think BM's flip changes my read on clidd.

Nope. Don't like it.

Before I read up, lol at morning and i's convo yesterday like
"OMG THIS IS THE MOST OBVTOWN I'VE EVER BEEN"
"OMG SAME BUT WE NOT GONNA LAST LONG"
"N2 NK EYYY"

alright you know what I'm just gonna stop reading this slot here and skip ahead to when it becomes solely MT because I just can't deal with this posting/playstyle

This is so much spaffing over the minutae of MT's claimed role and I just... zzz

But otherwise I'm generally liking MT's gamesolve/thought process and willing to accept they're town despite the other head of Batsunami being batsh...

I'll do the other 5 after dinner because man this is an exhausting game to go through everyone's ISOs on

This post gets a thumbs up from me

[Dunnstral]

@KidAmn, why were you the only one who’s target did not get switched with a specific person? Both Koba and nox Tweetie have stated this but you did not.

Rolestopper/Doctor don't get messages/feedback when targeting other people

[Dunnstral]

So for instance, he would not receive a message saying "you have successfully rolestopped x"

Dkkoba did get a message like that, which is how they caught it

[Dunnstral]

So for instance, he would not receive a message saying "you have successfully rolestopped x"

Dkkoba did get a message like that, which is how they caught it

But why did Tweetie because she and Koba aren’t protectives?

Tweetie sends a message to somebody and then they soft in thread that they received the message based on what was in her message

She does not receive a message from the mod telling her who she targeted

[Dunnstral]

I can be on Starcrossed tonight

[Dunnstral]

Asking permission to hammer

[Dunnstral]

Yeah I'll be on Starcrossed

[Dunnstral]

Also, the last scum is a bus driver -- Kid claims Even-Night Rolestopper. If we can confirm that to be the case, they are very unlikely to be the last scum, no? Why aren't we doing that? I can verify their role with ease.

Oh, that's a good point you know. Both of you target me tonight for example and we see if I get the message.

This doesn't prove anything, mechanically, unfortunately

Whether kidamn is telling the truth or lying, he'd be able to make this message disappear

[Dunnstral]

My one hang up about Dunny is that he didn't feel as annoyed this game. 2 versus games ago he was visibly irritated at pichu and Ydrasse's antics and he got mad at Noraa once or twice. There's been nothing of that sort this game.

Well what am I supposed to feel annoyed about in this game?

This is silly

Dunny, how did your read on Sarah change between the 2nd and 3rd quote? I don't see you state any reads on her in the intermission.

Fey's case

And also, there were a lot of flips between this time, the poe got a lot smaller in my mind

Sara was also in my potential mason pool for a while, if I remember correctly nancy was defending that slot and calling it towny earlier

[Dunnstral]

Also, what did Dunn do last night?

I was on starcrossed

[Dunnstral]

if you message yourself and kidamn rolestops you wouldn't that solve the issue?

I doubt tweetie is able to target themself

[Dunnstral]

What if tweetie messages kidamn, and kidamn protects starcrossed?

[Dunnstral]

What if tweetie messages kidamn, and kidamn protects starcrossed?

Nevermind, this also doesn't mean anything

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Kidamn

[Dunnstral]

I mean, it's not me and I was thinking of following what fey was pushing today instead of going on her tr

Nancy, tweetie can't be scum because she's a messenger, and the last scum is a bus driver

[Dunnstral]

The thing is why no bus drive last night?

We killed kidamn so there was no reason to bus drive

[Dunnstral]

I mean, it's not me and I was thinking of following what fey was pushing today instead of going on her tr

Nancy, tweetie can't be scum because she's a messenger, and the last scum is a bus driver

Tweetie is obviously not scum because she hung Sarah out to dry and unless Titus actually wanted Sarah elimed, why would Tweetie treat her buddy like that?

What do you mean? Titus never voted a single scum all game, are you suggesting that Clidd is the one exception?

Yes, I don't think we should be reading too much into what Titus is doing

[Dunnstral]

Who did you message last night? @Tweetie

Pyro claimed it

[Dunnstral]

lol I just opened your message

@Starcrossed batshit bat around right off the bat batty tab cat rat eat

[Dunnstral]

Nancy I don't see how Tweetie can be scum if their role is messenger and the last scum is a bus driver

[Dunnstral]

Yes exactly, why would Alisae have one even night role but no odd night anything? Sure it’s possible but in most games, you don’t have one without the other.

What? Why not?

Both the rolestopper and doctor are fairly useless roles to setup balance anyway considering the driver, dont think it would change much. If the driver dies they're activated sure but still dont see it affecting balance a ton

And where did I miss the unspoken "Even nights need an odd night counterpart" rule? I'd never abide by that while designing a setup

Okay fair enough but there usually is although I played a game on MU once where I was even night vig and no odd counterpart but there was in Cards of Destiny: Gamma, even night town bus driver with BEF, odd night town roleblocker or something? Can’t recall now. Do you remember? @Dunn

I don't know what MU game you are talking about (sounds like I wasn't in it)
Cards of destiny: Yes there was 'Neighbor Even night self redirector conditional hated/loved' and 'Mod poster/Modified-odd night hider'

[Dunnstral]

Yes exactly, why would Alisae have one even night role but no odd night anything? Sure it’s possible but in most games, you don’t have one without the other.

What? Why not?

Both the rolestopper and doctor are fairly useless roles to setup balance anyway considering the driver, dont think it would change much. If the driver dies they're activated sure but still dont see it affecting balance a ton

And where did I miss the unspoken "Even nights need an odd night counterpart" rule? I'd never abide by that while designing a setup

Okay fair enough but there usually is although I played a game on MU once where I was even night vig and no odd counterpart but there was in Cards of Destiny: Gamma, even night town bus driver with BEF, odd night town roleblocker or something? Can’t recall now. Do you remember? @Dunn

I don't know what MU game you are talking about (sounds like I wasn't in it)
Cards of destiny: Yes there was 'Neighbor Even night self redirector conditional hated/loved' and 'Mod poster/Modified-odd night hider'

Also the odd night bus driver as well

[Dunnstral]

The thing is why no bus drive last night?

We killed kidamn so there was no reason to bus drive

Sorry, I was referring to N5.

How do you know that there was no bus drive N5?

@Dunn

Didn't realize this was addressed to me, I was talking about night 6

vanilla cop will still be important since the vanilla cop claims result before the rest of massclaim

Flip clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith Akarin, rolestop {pool of S&W and Sarah},

replacement vanilla cops Olaf

Lock?

Okay, Pyro/Olaf has to be town from this, since last scum is bus driver.

Okay, I think Pyro is lockclear from this.

Not if the bus driver can self target. Was the bus driver accounted for that night?

[Dunnstral]

Ngl, #6867 sounds like a bit of a TMI. Why? Because you’re making it crystal clear that Starcrossed would 100% been bus driven had we not limmed him.

What? You asked why no bus drive, I repeated what I think tweetie already said: kidamn died so there was no reason (I can't act on even nights)

You've miscleared either pyro or clidd here

[Dunnstral]

God the whole mason talk that Krazy did was so fucking cringey. Sorry had to take that out of my system, but I started scumreading him back when I asked about claims done in the game when I repped in and he said that Noraa claimed masons, probably waiting to get a reaction from someone.

Yeah, I was there when it was happening

[Dunnstral]

vanilla cop will still be important since the vanilla cop claims result before the rest of massclaim

Flip clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith Akarin, rolestop {pool of S&W and Sarah},

replacement vanilla cops Olaf

Lock?

Okay, Pyro/Olaf has to be town from this, since last scum is bus driver.

If bus driver can target themself, they can change the target. It's not clear whether scum knew how the vanilla cop results would come out

[Dunnstral]

He’s mindmelding with my reads and considering your track record last time. you really shouldn’t be that confident but if Ircher is scum here, he’s definitely being bussed, bank on it but if he’s town, scum could be running him up. I’m not necessarily tr him but the game literally just started and you’re trying to ram this through now.

I'm hella confident

-Morty

You were also confident on Skitter.

I just don’t want any wagon getting higher than E - 2 because even if W & P are scum, we are deprived of valuable info if this gets rammed through this fast. I also haven’t figured out my vig targets yet.

This is why I unvoted.

[Dunnstral]

That's a good point though; it was a really flimsy reason for Sherlock to townread Dunny for, simply because he was voting for him and Sherlock WIFOMed "oh, he wouldn't scumread me as scum again"

It's an easy way to townread a partner. Oh, ALSO, Sherlock has like this policy almost where he tends to OMGUS even if he doesn't believe in it for gamestate reasons. The fact he didn't to Dunny is also very telling

Yeah that is kinda damning

He did though? Wasn't he scumreading me for a time after I scumread him initially?

[Dunnstral]

If we're going to elim me today, fine, but I want to talk about clidd vs pyro today and not in final 3

[Dunnstral]

Nancy... you should listen to the dead town

[Dunnstral]

Despite pyro's confidence it's not me and there isn't really a reason to think it's me. The case against me is what other people have done instead of what I have done

I was mainly thinking Clidd still, I didn't want to flip flop on what fey said before she died

My play here looks nothing like my scum game

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: dunnstral

VOTE: dunnstral

Explain

Riiiiight - because you’ve never played with me before.

Early.

[Dunnstral]

Nancy... you should listen to the dead town

Are you referring to Kanna here? She’s my mason remember? You don’t think I had anything to do with her Pyro sr? The only thing she was dead set on was Clidd town and of course Tweetie as well but that goes without saying,

Kanna and Fey

[Dunnstral]

Despite pyro's confidence it's not me and there isn't really a reason to think it's me. The case against me is what other people have done instead of what I have done

I was mainly thinking Clidd still, I didn't want to flip flop on what fey said before she died

My play here looks nothing like my scum game

I really don’t think I want to ever lim Clidd. Krazy sr him for pushing W & P. That’s kind’ve weird to do if Clidd is a buddy, don’t you think?

Can you quickly pretend that I'm eliminated today and the game doesn't end, and then MT dies. What do you think for the next day?

[Dunnstral]

If I were scum I'd be jumping at the pyro case here

[Dunnstral]

I think your case is out of context and that there is definitely progressions where you say there is none. I don't really want to take the time to dismantle it right now and it probably doesn't matter anyway

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: dunnstral

VOTE: dunnstral

Explain

Riiiiight - because you’ve never played with me before.

Early.

You were never in actual danger atp. I think he jumped to C & S soon after that.

It doesn't matter if I was in actual danger, saying that he never omgus'd onto me is wrong

[Dunnstral]

I think it's clidd but I don't have the motivation to argue for it

[Dunnstral]

Bus driver can self target, so it's safe for them to claim vanilla. Mafia didn't know that the vanilla cop would get the name of the person they investigated.

[Dunnstral]

I think it's clidd but I don't have the motivation to argue for it

But what about us listening to dead town? I’m not risking the wrath of Kanna.

What do you mean? Did Kanna think it was me?

[Dunnstral]

well played pyro

[Dunnstral]

well played pyro

[Dunnstral]

Masons are fine, just centralize less power in the masonry.

2 masons, can go down to 1 or 0 for extra 1/2 shot powers like currently. The rest of town has a bit more power in response