Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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ok I just had a thought, maybe it's dumb but hear me out
am i 100% convinced enchant is maf? no, not at all
when i try to imagine what scum teams there could be, is enchant on the vast majority of them? yes
does enchant 100% need to be resolved before elo? yes
and the thing I realized is... even on the off chance that enchant is town here, im pretty sure scum would actually want them not to be limmed? like, think about it. if we flip someone else today, im guessing a lot of the town will be heading into the night with invictus on enchant. i know i probably will. people are tired of hero shots, and just want to narrow the poe. it makes sense. but thats actually shielding for scum. if they know that enchant is town, then they want everyone's invictus on them because invictus shots are much harder to predict compared to their ability to influence the lim during the day. limming enchant removes that shield and makes it harder for them to feel safe with their night kill
and the pretty likely alternative is that enchant is just scum. so it's a win win
VOTE: Enchant-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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HECK YEAH WE ARE!!!
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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do you disagree with the idea that if enchant is town then maf probably want them alive as an invictus shield? im actually curious, im not sure that my line of thinking is correct there, but it makes sense to meIn post 2792, gorilla wrote:If no one takes charge we're going to end up havuing a path of least resistance vote on enchant, because no one actually wants to defend him.-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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like here at this point you are saying that fey is lying about their role and that you think theyre scum and you're voting them, and yet when talking to them you say they wasted their role. which isn't really a consistent mindsetIn post 2285, Enchant wrote:
Why anime girls get all cool roles and brutally waste them, literally unbearable.In post 2284, Fey wrote:Also this might be mean but I don’t actually think town Enchant cares that much about how I use my role.-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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useful mis-flip, yes, but thats inevitable. i think there's more utility to scum for that flip to be via invictus bc invictus is harder for them to control or predictIn post 2805, gorilla wrote:
If Enchant is town he's a useful mis-elim, either way.In post 2796, fireisredsir wrote:
do you disagree with the idea that if enchant is town then maf probably want them alive as an invictus shield? im actually curious, im not sure that my line of thinking is correct there, but it makes sense to meIn post 2792, gorilla wrote:If no one takes charge we're going to end up havuing a path of least resistance vote on enchant, because no one actually wants to defend him.-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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which theory?In post 2842, Meuh wrote:Looks like my theory was right-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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i don't think dunn and gorilla paired is very likely due to the way the luke situation played outIn post 2843, Meuh wrote:I still think Dun is scum so I’ll have to recheck Gorilla’s push on him yesterday, I’m curious if it looks like bussing at all-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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dunn volunteered to pair with luke on gorilla. i guess maybe he was just willing to let luke shoot his teammate? actually he did say start of next day that he moved his invictus off gorilla so maybe he was planning to do that all along. ig it's not impossible but it seems less likely to meIn post 2849, Meuh wrote:
Why is that? I can’t say that part of the game particularly stuck to meIn post 2848, fireisredsir wrote:
i don't think dunn and gorilla paired is very likely due to the way the luke situation played outIn post 2843, Meuh wrote:I still think Dun is scum so I’ll have to recheck Gorilla’s push on him yesterday, I’m curious if it looks like bussing at all-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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i also think this makes meuh very unlikely paired with gorilla. calling out two partners as S/S on d2 seems kinda throwyIn post 2850, Gammagooey wrote:
If you are right you can nominate me for twat of the year for scumreading you for voting/casing gorilla over marci in the first placeIn post 2845, Meuh wrote:
The Marci/Gorilla scumteam oneIn post 2844, fireisredsir wrote:
which theory?In post 2842, Meuh wrote:Looks like my theory was right-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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uhh yes? the point was that it's scummy if she's fake partner hunting for her partner before that partner flips, and then using that to push town. it's not scummy at all to be hunting for real partner associations, it's dumb play. technically i guess you could call it tmi, but there's basically no advantage to doing it, and i think meuh is smarter than that. it's scummy tmi if the person is using it to advance scum wincon. so if gorilla is scum, then meuh wasn't really gaining anything by pushing marci/gorilla, and so is much more likely to be town. it's also possible that it's meuh scum gorilla town. i just don't think they're pairedIn post 2853, Gammagooey wrote:this is like 90+% devil's advocate/my own annoyance talking
but I'm p. sure you mentioned some of the gorilla/marci posting from Meuh being potentially tmi before - would gorilla being scum make it feel substantially different to you? And regardless of whether gorilla flips scum, does her potential tmi on marci feel that different from Cakez's pushes on marci that you thought could be bussing?
i don't really understand the comparison to cakez at all tbh, they're p different situations-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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my logic was about why you're not likely to be S/S. ruling out pairings at this stage of the game when there's a narrow poe is v useful. i didn't conclude that exactly one of you is scum. most teams that im considering do have one of you on them, though, but it is possible you're both townIn post 2869, Meuh wrote:
and why can’t we both be town?In post 2855, fireisredsir wrote:i just don't think they're paired
Like I get thinking we’re not S/S but I’m not following your logic-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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ok so ive been thinking about possible teams. RR and bell are ruled out. i think ive just accepted atp that if kovu is scum then i have lost to it, and am not considering that currently. maybe ill reconsider that at some point but i kinda doubt it. we did have a moment at start of day where we were paranoid of each other after the flips due to setup spec but tbh i kinda think thats what maf wanted by killing val. i don't think it really makes sense for kovu to nk val here.
so that leaves: gamma, gorilla, meuh, dunn, fey.
im ruling out teams with gorilla+meuh for now, based on reasoning i gave earlier and their interactions today add to that feeling. i think thats the only pairing im really ok with ruling out completely rn.
i do also think that gorilla+dunn is pretty unlikely, due to the luke situation. that one is still possible though, maybe, it might depend on the roles scum have.
that means the only really viable gorilla team fmpov is gorilla+gamma+fey. looking just at their interactions, this is actually... very possible. which is unfortunate, if it weren't viable i could feel comfortable treating gorilla as town for now. but gorilla defused the fey wagon yesterday, gamma fits well as a gorilla partner, and generally throughout the game they've been approaching the game from different angles in a way that it feels like a scum team might. gamma vs fey had a bit of a 1v1 yesterday, but both kind of backed off each other in a strange way, and i could easily see the whole thing as being a somewhat awkward distancing attempt.
gamma+meuh+dunn... eh, maybe possible?? gamma interactions with dunn don't really look paired, and that would mean both dunn partners were bussing him yesterday before the wagon dissolved, im not sure about that. dunn and meuh could easily work as a pair, im just not sure if gamma fits in there. i don't want to rule this one out but i think of these options it seems like the least viable to me
gamma+fey+dunn, slightly more possible imo. fey pushed dwlee in counter to dunn on d2, and again we have the gamma+fey pairing that just feels like it fits in a lot of ways. this would mean gamma has pushed all three of his scum partners at various points though, so eh. maybe? maybe not.
gamma+meuh+fey, very possible. they've pretty consistently been spread out across different wagons, there's no real interactions between them that feel unpartnered, the biggest thing here is fey's push on meuh d2. she wasn't ever really pushing very hard for her, though, and the scumread dropped off and disappeared after a while.
dunn+meuh+fey, hmm, kinda possible. meuh came into yesterday saying that dunn and fey looked like the most likely marci partners. i had the same conclusion, maybe she was just tmi but that feels weird to me. i think its more likely that if meuh is scum, it's with one of dunn/fey, not both. all three of these also jumped onto cakez start of yesterday which is slightly unlikely imo.-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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so mostly just from looking at how those possible pairings position against each other, interact, and vote, i think a team of gamma/fey + one of meuh/gorilla fits best
this isn't really taking my individual reads into account much, but tbh at this point im not really sure how much i trust myself on those. so maybe trying for a new approach is the way to go
ik that trying for whole team solves is like... not always the smartest way to go, bc sometimes people are just good at distancing or fake clearing associatives, so i don't want to rely on it too heavily. i wanna look more closely at how the game has progressed with these pairings in mind, though
mostly im just kinda wanting to hear input from bell and RR and see what they're thinking-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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you've pushed meuh hard. meuh and gorilla have pushed each other hard. gamma has pushed dunn hard. dunn has pushed gorilla kinda hard and offered to vig him with luke. you and gamma have pushed each other recently. meuh has pushed dunn a bit recently.In post 2898, Fey wrote:I currently have my Invictus pointed squarely at Gamma and have had him in my solve since yesterday so... weird team concept.
literally every possible team has someone bussing someone. that isn't even remotely surprising at this stage of the game with this narrow of a poe.
you 100% know better than this. this is such a snap reaction, zero level defense. i don't get it-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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there's an issue with your line of thinking here. you're saying that a deepwolf usually exists, and define it as someone who puts in the effort or the bussing to make it to endgame. but in order to determine who it is, you're looking at the output, not the input. you're saying that because me and kovu are mostly townread, we make sense as the deepwolf. but an attempted deepwolf can't control how they get read, they can only control what they put into the game. and it seems like you're disregarding meuh as a possibility here just because she's in the poe and some people have called her out for scummy behavior. she's still put in the effort and the bussing to qualifyIn post 2902, Gammagooey wrote:The lazy answer is 'usually there's a deepwolf', who through either effort or bussing or both, has put in the work to carry their team to victory if everyone else on the scumteam dies, and nobody else except you and fire really fit that - both of you have put enough effort into the game and pressured marci enough that everyone's reactions to both of ya'll have been "yeah that's fine" or better for the entire game and I'd be surprised if anyone claims to have targeted one of you two with an invictus shot since n2.
The slightly less lazy answer I already mentioned a piece of earlier - in a game where town get twice as many eliminations as mafia do kills, mafia need to have an actual plan to make it through the game, and generally they're aware enough of how they're perceived and the game-state to make one that doesn't suck. Unless you somehow get 4 Enchants on a scumteam, the plan is never "let's ALL lurk and hammer randomly and hope we win that way", and for a game like this there's going to be a Plan A Day 1 for "Ideally we can push these townies" and later a Plan B for "scum 1 gets/got elim'd early by elim/Invictus" and even later a plan C for "scum 2 gets a major wagon on them today" and etc etc. My gut is that you fit that best yesterday with the marci push d2 from you, that I think would be reasonable for you-scum to expect wouldn't go anywhere and just get some distancing in given your complaints about people not playing the game and not following you, but frankly that's more gut and paranoia than an actual conviction - your play yesterday was erratic but the only part I actually find scummy there was your brief push on me for voting Enchant early game+me posting from my personal PT, which I think could reasonably come from town. Fire also makes sense as a deepwolf as *the reasonable scum*, particularly after yesterday, in that he helped push marci early but also tried to convince me of both Lavar-scum D1 and Cakez possibly being scum with marci yesterday with decent but wrong reasonings and not really budging to consider my POV much on either.
Nobody else I think feels like they came out of the marci wagon with what could be a plan to get to endgame.-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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kovuIn post 2904, Rhyme and Reason wrote:okay, everyone whose name isn't Bell or Kovu, full readslist of all remaining players (you do not need to include us or Bell) next time you're in thread please
~Rhyme
dunn
gorilla
gamma
fey
meuh
prob this-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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i don't think i was condescending or disappointed? im saying it doesn't make sense for you to have that thought as townIn post 2923, Fey wrote:Like I think the sort of weird condescending disappointed tone is just like. “What.”-
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was a player-specific comment, not a game-specific comment. as a player she knows that at this stage in the game it's p likely that scum will be bussing somewhere. because she's a good scum player and has played mafia a lot. her immediate reaction to me proposing a possible team that includes her being "well, thats a weird team, bc then id be bussing" is just... not a thought that makes sense given what she should know about how to play the game of mafia. so i think it's more likely to be an attempt to dismiss that comes from scumIn post 2926, Meuh wrote:
Why thoughIn post 2921, fireisredsir wrote:you 100% know better than this.
Like why is this an assumption you're making here, she's clearly not that engaged with the game-
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it's relevant to why the comment is suspicious, though? if you were a new player and had no idea how to play the scum alignment then it would be reasonable for you to dismiss a team in that way as town. you're not, so it's not reasonable, so it's suspiciousIn post 2931, Fey wrote:
“You know better than this” is 100% a weirdchamp moment.In post 2929, fireisredsir wrote:
i don't think i was condescending or disappointed? im saying it doesn't make sense for you to have that thought as townIn post 2923, Fey wrote:Like I think the sort of weird condescending disappointed tone is just like. “What.”-
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this was your initial response though? you said that it didn't make sense as a team bc you had gamma in your solve since yesterday and you're saying he's your strongest scumreadIn post 2898, Fey wrote:I currently have my Invictus pointed squarely at Gamma and have had him in my solve since yesterday so... weird team concept.
saying that you would commit fully or not at all, and wouldn't go halfway is a very different response and a more understandable one. i still take issue with your original response tho-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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i also think if you're scum with gamma here you probably expected to die before him based on the level of effort you're each putting in and how you're generally positioned, and so the bus from your end wouldn't be for the purpose of bussing to death, it would be for the sake of distancingIn post 2936, Fey wrote:I mean I lose when it’s like... pointed out I didn’t ~really commit~ and instead just focused on killing town. Like yeah sure this is all things I can just say but generally whenever I bus I bus to death and not like pithy half-measures.-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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im not really sure whats so different beyond you seeming to be much more excited about playing that game than this one? maybe thats AI, actually, idk? looking at your push on chara tho, im not sure what im supposed to be seeing as different. i think there you have a cleaner progression of gradually building up suspicion and giving reasons etc, but you're also just... playing the game more. as proportional to your engagement level in the game overall, the push on gamma isn't too far off. i guess you could argue you wouldn't pivot onto enchant, but im not sure why thats clearing. you have some slightly emotionally charged back and forths there, similar to here.In post 2947, Fey wrote:Also @fire
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=87057
Read this for an example of how bussing with me happens. (Also note the setup in regards to me *choosing* to bus.)
so, idk, there are some differences, and it's hard to judge without reading the entire game which im not gonna do (also don't think i can understand the setup well enough [although it looks really cool actually and i might read it fully sometime later] to comprehend why you would or wouldn't bus with just a brief read, the sentencing thing is confusing me enough as it is), but i don't think seeing you bus in that way is doing much to convince me that you wouldn't bus in this way-
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i am notIn post 2970, Gammagooey wrote:fire/Kovu if you're anything aside from Generic Neighbors now's the time to say it-
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im tired
i kinda just wanted to sheep the conftown here but they're not even really playing the game so
town leader kovu? she found marci scum when most people had forgotten she existed
idk
ive been looking at vote movements over d1 and d2 and nothing is really changing my mind about the likelihood of a meuh/fey/gamma team so far. the way fey and meuh handled marci both look pretty paired to me, and it combines well with gamma who was sort of tunneling on marci (luke, are you still reading this? this is for you. maf can be tunneling) and probably if that's the team he would be looking to go the distance
i think in general meuh has, like, all game hopped onto reads after other people make them even when it doesn't really make sense given her read on the person, and it's really scummy, actually. it's like a very consistent pattern that she does this. she did it with lavar. she did it with enchant. she did it with gorilla about me. she consistently shifts her reads and interactions to treat whoever she's talking to as more towny regardless of if that makes sense with her reads and progressions.
actually i don't really think her progression on me makes sense at all, i didn't feel like her responses to my push on her earlier ever really questioned my motivations or alignment. it didn't feel like she was trying to sort me back, which would make sense if she was actually starting to feel paranoia about me like she claims she was.
i just think that her backing out of the 1v1 with gorilla and pivoting into sheeping him on dunn and me is hard to see coming from a town mindset. she leaves that engagement with a dunn/fey/fire read in 2890. but then once fey is back in thread, she's following her on some weird point about my tone, and goes back to a gorilla/fire/dunn read in 2930. and then 2939 is suddenly back in the mindset of thinking gorilla is scum. then she wants dunn/gorilla/fey dead in 2982. but then when gorilla shows up again, she says that a dunn/fey/fire team is a decent solve in 2985. it's just all slimy and political and all she seems to care about is being on the side of whoever is currently in the thread that she's talking to. it's classic chat maf scum play, thriving in the real time engagements and the social game and leaning on them heavily but lacking a consistent town mindset when you step back and look at the bigger picture-
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why not fey? i don't think their interactions are unbelievable as partnersIn post 3050, gorilla wrote:Say I die and flip town, who realistically makes sense as a Gammagooey teammate? Not Dunn. Not Fey. Not Kovu. It'd have to be Gamma/fire/Meuh but then fire went out of his way to case his teammate yesterday for no reason when most people were townreading her?? Just doesn't make a lick of sense.-
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why this shade/discredit? don't you think kovu is town? this sounds like you're talking to a SRIn post 3038, Meuh wrote:Pedit: Wow Kovu, it's almost as if you're actively looking for more reasons to believe a scumteam you already think existed-
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i don't know why you would know as scum that people would vote after you did? like why do you get credit for "starting a vote chain" when the people who voted after you are unrelated?
if it was a planned bus though, scum usually want to get on as early as possible
i don't really get what about this is something you wouldn't do as scum-
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i mean if you don't want to debate the point further thats fine ig but like, even if the votes were related to yours... how does this make you town? are you saying that you could have predicted that your vote would lead to a chain of others voting?In post 3066, Meuh wrote:I pretty clearly cast a vote that lead to a chain of several more votes happening immediately after.-
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bell if you'd prefer fey to meuh im okay with that
i think i can see worlds where fey is scum and meuh isn't, but i have a hard time seeing worlds where meuh is scum and fey isn't (would have to be meuh/dunn/gamma, which... doesn't feel right?).
i can't see really worlds where they're both town (would have to be gorilla/dunn/gamma, both gorilla and gamma are hard bussing dunn without actually flipping him? and dunn offered to let luke shoot gorilla? both seem unlikely).
i can def see worlds where they're both scum and i think that's what's most likely-
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i don't think im really capable of maintaining a consistent town thought process through this whole game and the hood with kovu. like, ask me what i was thinking at any point in the game and im p sure i could tell you. most of my thoughts are in the thread or in the hood anyway and i think my process is clear enough already. as scum im decent at live interaction and engagement but im bad at making fake cases on people and controlling the game. my play this game has basically been the opposite of that due to the postcap, ive been way more wall-posty than usual and less live interaction. i think ive cased and pushed people for way more in depth reasoning than i would be able to come up with as scumIn post 3074, Bell wrote:Why aren’t you scum this game fire?
as someone who is widely townread d1 and d2 i think i set myself up better for endgame? like i wouldn't have been pushing town for most of d2 and d3 i would have committed to being the deepwolf or whatever and bussed
i don't think i ever kill val here bc 1) me and kovu wanted to push val overnight, and i think you did as well. there's no reason to use a NK on someone in the poe if they're limmable (and plus, i'm immune to his checks). i think scum just literally didn't know that val was limmable bc the hoods are pure and most of the suspicion was in there, and if the hoods are pure, a TA is extra dangerous to them. and 2) if i know that val is a town TA, and he's probably aiming at cakez, killing him immediately makes people paranoid of me/kovu. it shines a spotlight on us that is just unnecessary
i also don't think i would disagree with kovu and argue back with her reads on late d1/early d2 to the point where she blows up the hood and says im scum cause like... that's kind of a predictable reaction. id just be trying to agree with her as much as possible early and then nk her before she flips her read so i don't have to keep up the act
there's probably more things i wouldn't have done here if i were scum but those are the main things that come to mind-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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ok, we can talk about it if you wantIn post 3104, gorilla wrote:On reflection and not being tremendously annoyed at terrible logic the reason I don't want to go after Meuh today is because there's a dark timeline world where fire is scum taking advantage of the deathtunnel between us. The way he led the diversion onto Enchant yesterday in the total absence of leadership in the game left a bad taste in my mouth, which is part of my lingering paranoia toward him.
why do you think i do that as scum from that position? things were heading towards a lim on cakez. i was willing to trust kovu on her read of cakez town due to what she'd seen in the hood, and i didn't really want that to be the lim, so i wanted to go somewhere that i felt had a higher chance of hitting scum
if im the "deepwolf" why do i lead a charge onto town when it's not really necessary at all?
and anyway i still stand by what i said that limming enchant was pro-town. what would have happened otherwise? probably we lim cakez, and then scum shoot val who probably just shoots enchant. so literally exactly the same result. maybe it was a mistake, idk, but nobody was doing anything and i think that a lim on cakez would have been significantly worse, actually, because then RR never gets added to the hood
if i were scum, all that i accomplished was getting my hands dirty for no reason-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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was re-reading marci's iso to see if the posts from that side look unpaired with meuh as she claims. don't really think they're clearing, she does interact with her a lot but i wouldn't expect her to ignore all of her partners completely. the point about how marci would have a more nuanced take is ok ig, but i think thats not too hard to fake. i also don't think it's at all true that scum talking with each other in thread are always on the same emotional wavelength
and i do think this post looks somewhat partnered:
there's pretty minimal interaction with dunn and fey, slightly more with gorilla but still not much, and then a decent amount of back and forth with gamma and meuh. id be surprised if her partners were exactly dunn/fey/gorilla, i think she'd put some distance out somewhereIn post 1547, marcistar wrote:do u think i should focus on tryimg to read meuh
i havent been trying to cuz always being wrong about her isnt very fromis vibes yknow? shes only really been a side thought to me so i havent been constantly updating about thoughts on her!!
i do think fey looks the worst of the group, especially with 2088 just looking like a late attempt at throwing some distance up with someone that she hadn't really interacted with much at all and had been townreading for not much reason before-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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with marci interactions? prob looks the least paired of the groupIn post 3144, Bell wrote:Thoughts on gamma gooey?
in general? ive gone back and forth. there's been a few times where it felt like he has a conclusion that he wants to reach and is ignoring information that goes outside of that. there's some effort to move the game forward in general, but sometimes it feels like he has an agenda behind that
i kinda think he fits on most teams im considering atm. unless im wrong on dunn, but i kinda felt like dunn was the designated miselim that scum wanted yesterday, and i have a hard time really seeing teams with dunn on them that make sense. dunn/meuh/fey would prob be my guess if gamma town? if gamma scum, its prob with fey and either gorilla or meuh
i think it's just fey in like every world i can think of-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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if you want more reasons than 3075 i can think of some for you, those just seemed the most significant to meIn post 3162, Rhyme and Reason wrote:Fire why are you not scum other than lots of posts in your PT with kovu-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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feyIn post 3188, Bell wrote:@Everyone: one person who do you want to kill? Who is essentially your top scum read. Keep it extremely concise.-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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ok well uh overnight i had the solve of meuh/fey/gamma... so... guess that was wrong
im really kinda surprised by the dunn flip bc i felt like he didn't really fit into any team that i could see. will try to sort out who the town is in that group of 3 tomorrow based on dunn interactions
movement of wagons and stuff will be easier to see now that there's 2 scum flips as well-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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yea sureIn post 3237, Gammagooey wrote:Hey fire+Kovu can you go over what you talked about around here when the D3 Dunn wagon was happening?
- kovu saying that she is tunneled on gamma, but bell wants dunn over gamma, i agree. im kinda tunneled on meuh at the time
- kovu says that cakez has gotten townier in the hood and she thinks he's town now (idr how much of this made it into the thread but she thought he was scummy in there for a while)
- us talking about how people forgot about dunn and were tunneling cakez instead, and how we were glad to see votes on him now
- im still hesitant about cakez and then we have some spec about the town claims, end up considering if val could be scum
- kovu wants to vote dunn but isn't sure yet and wants to take a step back to see what happens. i feel kinda similar but am more focused on meuh. this is around where cakez is the main wagon and cakez voted dunn
- kovu is kinda going back and forth on dunn, some points for scum and some points for town
- i ask if cakez ever questioned her TR on him, and then we talk about cakez for a bit, she explains more about how he acted in their hood, basically says she thinks he's never scum here. i say dunn's narrative for why cakez is scum doesn't really make sense
- we talk some more about dunn and cakez. some discussion about the whole gamma broken link thing. then after thats over we both think dunn is the best direction to push next, but both also think that enchant is like on every possible team.
- i say that cakez is concerning me and ask her if the narrative he's giving in thread fits with what happened in the hood
- she says dw about it, he's town, what he said fits with what actually happened
- we talk about it a bit more and i decide ok good enough and dunn is probably just scum here
- i say that meuh's vote on dunn scares me bc i still think she's scum but that i will stay strong, we both talk about meuh being likely scum
- some talk about enchant not hammering, and dunn being impossible to lim, some talk about meuh/dunn pairing with meuh looking for an excuse to jump off dunn, wagon kinda dies here-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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reading through that reminded me of how i was very sketched out by meuh and dunn both going for fey right off the bat, and then gamma pushing that despite SRing dunn all game
it felt like people were trying to shove an elim through on either fey or cakez. me and kovu both agreed it felt like scum were in control there
one of my hangups for meuh/dunn/gamma was idk if they all push together like that in the same direction?? but ig maybe they just thought they could get away with it?-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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and also found a comment i made in the hood on 2441 which was that i felt like the dunn points were a lot better than the fey ones... which on the one hand, okay, so he's pushing harder for the one that has flipped scum so far... but the thing is that he actually wasn't really? even though the case is better?
gamma can you talk about why you were focused more on pushing fey there instead of dunn at the start of the day?-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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also how is this a point for fey being scum? why would she bring up the rule of 3 thing if it was actually true?In post 3217, Gammagooey wrote:-The confidence on Cakez scum for "rule of 3" with her/cakez/gorilla (and apparently other reasons that I can't find more of other than "he was biased on marci")-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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what's weird to me is the initial push onto fey d3. it feels like you came in with a plan, not like you were pushing your strongest scumreadIn post 3256, Gammagooey wrote:I went over it when I voted Fey originally D3 - from the marci interactions Fey looks the worst out of anyone in the game, and I thought (and still think) the Datisi investigation is probably a lie because it didn't look like it had any thought put into it, and it would be burning literally half of Fey's claimed power doing it. Maybe if you ignore my initial post D3 about Fey then you could say the points on Dunn were stronger than the ones on Fey but I don't really see that being the case including that - And after re-reading and posting that I was very happy to kill either of the two that day and I think that's pretty clear from my posts+vote on Dunn afterwards. Also as a sidenote, by the time I posted in thread for the first time D3 (D3 start was 2am my time) at 9something am, Dunn had already voted Fey, hopped off, and never voted Fey again for the rest of the game. I just said the previous day that I was fine voting for a scumread even if another scumread of mine was voting them (with marci & Meuh voting them) and it turned out to work quite well, my thoughts/philosophy on that didn't change overnight.
idk how voting alongside a scumread (i assume you're talking about voting fey even though dunn did?) is really relevant to what i was talking about
but anyway speaking of your scumread on Meuh, can you talk about your progression there? you had her as a scumread for most of d2, and even when voting Marci you said that meuh could possibly be bussing her. im not really sure how you got from there to feeling like they were unlikely partners (and we've already been over that) to then having her at the top of your reads in 2951. and then now it feels like you have her in a "let's deal with this later" pile, but like... you should probably be dealing with it now?
the post where you're campaigning to gorilla that dunn and meuh can't be partnered in 2866 before dunn has flipped is also kinda sketchy imo-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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what about it did you like, specifically?In post 3258, Gammagooey wrote:Aside from that I liked her day 3 posting
also, what was the point of asking for a summary from the hood of stuff around the dunn wagon? did you learn anything from that? what were you hoping to learn?-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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also, can you walk me through what you were thinking when you made this post?In post 2853, Gammagooey wrote:
this is like 90+% devil's advocate/my own annoyance talkingIn post 2852, fireisredsir wrote:
i also think this makes meuh very unlikely paired with gorilla. calling out two partners as S/S on d2 seems kinda throwyIn post 2850, Gammagooey wrote:
If you are right you can nominate me for twat of the year for scumreading you for voting/casing gorilla over marci in the first placeIn post 2845, Meuh wrote:
The Marci/Gorilla scumteam oneIn post 2844, fireisredsir wrote:
which theory?In post 2842, Meuh wrote:Looks like my theory was right
but I'm p. sure you mentioned some of the gorilla/marci posting from Meuh being potentially tmi before - would gorilla being scum make it feel substantially different to you? And regardless of whether gorilla flips scum, does her potential tmi on marci feel that different from Cakez's pushes on marci that you thought could be bussing?-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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