i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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I have like 4 scum reads. Off the top of my head they're tris for asking some awkward looking questions, Ythan specifically for 62, the doll gimmick player has a first post I think feels safe to make from a scum PoV, and the lycanfire player has a first post followed by a second post which I think are safe from a scum PoV.
I'll read back and clarify on tris I guess: 37, 55, 64 I think can be kinda scummy.
I think furtive, csf and gamma seem OK based purely on meta but I'm not that confident. I don't actually understand Gamma's townread on andree but if Gamma is indeed town then I would probably sheep their townread on andree.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I can believe it. You're more null then I guess.In post 71, tris wrote:there;s always someone who scumreads me for asking questions. what if i told you i always do that?
I'm not feeling it. Do you have some kind of meta reason for your read?In post 71, tris wrote:thats funny. i gut wanted to townread her for that.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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I don't see it at all and this feels to me like town (tris) impulsively townreading scum (Ythan) for a bad reason (77.) I'm going to go ahead and double down on that.In post 77, tris wrote:no. it just felt like they had a specific reason to ask that question that might come from an inquisitive townie.
VOTE: Ythan
The other player I'm willing to vote at this point is Princess. I'll reserve judgement on lycan and tris.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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Yes, might as well explain.In post 80, Gamma Emerald wrote:I agree w tris that Ythan’s 62 feels town, and I do have the ability to explain if desiredBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Mmm this pings me as IIoA and maybe out of character for csf because town!csf has townread me before for doing the same thing.In post 85, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Oh man Frogster did you roll scum? You came in swinging with 4 scumreads and then sort of backed down from 2 of them almost right awayBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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Yeah you're just commentating on something I did and posing an open question like "did that thing frogster just did make them scummy?" There's no analysis behind that.In post 88, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
IIoA... BruhIn post 86, Frogsterking wrote:
Mmm this pings me as IIoA and maybe out of character for csf because town!csf has townread me before for doing the same thing.In post 85, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Oh man Frogster did you roll scum? You came in swinging with 4 scumreads and then sort of backed down from 2 of them almost right away
Town!csf from LOST, earlyish D1:In post 87, tris wrote:link?
In post 396, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:I think changing reads early unprompted tends to come from town
But you changing your read here doesn't mean much, since it came quickly after Klick hard townread radIn post 668, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:I'm primarily town reading frogster for being flexible with reads
There is a marked tone difference, but i can think of one reason to explain that. But he can answer for himselfBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I think that's a really negative way to frame that. I can't expect all of my page 3 reads to be correct and I updated my reads on tris and lycan after interacting with them for the first time. I also think updating my reads shows I'm thinking about the game or whatever. I feel like you've been onboard with this line of thinking when I've played with town!csf so I'm seriously considering whether you are scum peddling some early BS.In post 91, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:You just dropped your reads like less than 1 page later. It shows that you didn't really believe in those reads
I doubt you did that in LOST
HereIn post 92, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:What made you reconsider lycanfire?
I thought this was an underreaction to being accused early if lycan is scumIn post 70, Lycanfire wrote:i expect great things from you
In post 73, Lycanfire wrote:how important is it for you to color slots, tris?In post 75, Lycanfire wrote:It's more of a question of playstyle or values, I guess.
I thought doubling down on the questioning here was townieIn post 78, Lycanfire wrote:How compelled do you feel to attribute town feeling and scum feeling to a slot. Do you do this for every slot? Just some?Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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I was viewing it from a PoV where scum!ythan sees an opportunity to frame town!csf in a scummy light and maybe get an early BW going there.In post 83, Gamma Emerald wrote:I feel like Ythan saw CSF’s play at that point as pressing others for reads rather than working on making her own so she opted to press CSF on it
I can see what you're saying though because I looked through csf iso and there are a lot of words but not really any reads that I saw. I could see town!Ythan being silently aware of that and then jumping on csf as soon as they saw that question.
...why?In post 95, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Tbh i feel like 86 was a scummy way to respond, but eh
Buttering up?In post 95, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:admittedly i have some bop on your slotBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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That's all?In post 107, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
I have Lycanfire, tris, and maybe andree on the town side of nullIn post 100, Frogsterking wrote:Csf can you post a reads list?
I don't really have any scumreads. Maybe HPE for popping in and saying something irrelevantBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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In post 106, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
I didn't post one page 1?In post 98, Ranger wrote:{Save The Dragons}
{tris, Cat Scratch Fever}
{GeorgeBailey}
{McMenno}
{Enchant, Not_Mafia}
{Titus, KittyTacky, High PrincessErinys, Vaxkiller, Morning Tweet, tapiocaphobe, imaginality, Frogsterking, kitten around, Ythan, Quiet Owl}
{andree}
{Lycanfire}
{furtiveglance}
{Gamma Emerald}
P1.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Spoiler:Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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No I meant what I said, the commentary on recent events with no individual analysis is what stood out to me the most. I guess if I wanted to throw the book at csf I could also claim 85 is a baseless accusation, hedgey/testing the waters on a frog wagon and that it's trying to discredit me for making early attempts at solving. What I think is most AI though is the IIoA element because I think the other tells can be side effects from town trying to stir something up to get reads.In post 113, Lycanfire wrote:
Did you mean some other term over IIoA?In post 86, Frogsterking wrote:
Mmm this pings me as IIoA and maybe out of character for csf because town!csf has townread me before for doing the same thing.In post 85, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Oh man Frogster did you roll scum? You came in swinging with 4 scumreads and then sort of backed down from 2 of them almost right away
Why? Did you have something else in mind other IIoA?Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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What about 85 seemed like analysis to you?In post 116, Lycanfire wrote:it seemed like analysis to me and there's been plenty of iioa in this thread so to be so up in csf's shit for the play by play was interesting
why should people vote ythan?
Also, my read on Ythan is in flux at the moment because I'm very skeptical of csf play so far and that changes how I view 62.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Here's the scum post from a previous game which Ythan's 62 pinged me for:
viewtopic.php?p=13548554#p13548554
Maybe, I can see it.In post 119, Lycanfire wrote:iioa sucks because the person doing it isn't making any worthwhile interactions. by making one it isn't iioa, imo.
I'd categorize that stuff separately as mech spec which I view as more NAI. I kind of low key think both enchant and andree are town.In post 120, Lycanfire wrote:Iioa is more what Andree and Enchant were doing on the first few pages. How do you feel about them?Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I feel like there is a scum slot between ythan/princess/furtive.
I also have a 6 player towncore ready in my imagination. Ranger is in it. I'd like to hear from Ranger on how serious their reads are on George, Princess and Gamma.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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KT is town tooIn post 139, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Morning Tweet is townBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Oh come off it, assuming tris is town, then as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them.In post 137, KittyTacky wrote:idk about Frogster, backing out on tris so fast might be scum theatre but I can't say I scumread him otherwise.
I feel like I've had thoughts like this when interacting with scum Gamma in the past. Between you, Ranger and Tweet's reads on Gamma I think Gamma is a good contender for a D1/D2 lim.In post 138, KittyTacky wrote:Gamma doesn't seem very much like town Gamma but that might be a "took a break" thing.
This is the kind of overreaction I think can be scum indicative. I noticed that you went straight to attacking my reasoning rather than questioning whether or not it was scum motivated. Consider me sold on a quickhammer here if the game comes to that.In post 144, HighPrincessErinys wrote:It's not just a 'gimmick', y'know. Also, ehh? If you wanna point fingers for first posts then maybe you should add like, basically everyone. Of course a first post is going to be "safe" from "scum PoV" when first posts 99 times out of 100 are essentially "hi" with or without an RV attached. Lycanfire's too. It makes sense half of these reads got dropped because they are, ESPECIALLY flimsy for page 3, but either way it's just Eh to this one. Frogster's 86 jumps out to it as more immediately wacky.
VOTE: Princess
I think it's somewhat likely that I overreacted because you've read me right quickly in the past. I was thinking about it and I'm no longer convinced that there's a scum motivation for you to play this way. I'm not sure how defined your playstyle is as scum but I'm picturing you as more pockety and under the radar when you're scum. I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us.In post 140, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:But at the same time, 86 could also conceivably come from Town!Frogs because I have been quick to read him right in the past.
OMGUSIn post 143, McMenno wrote:I kind of skimmed the last few paegs I don't think frogsterking is looking that great here
VOTE: frogsterking
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Town
Ranger
Dragons
KT
Tweet
Tris
Town leans
CSF*
Lycan
Enchant
Andree
Null
Titus
George
NM
Tapiaco
Vax
Kitten Around
Owl
Imaginality
Scum lean
McMennon (OMGUS)
Scum
Ythan
Furtive
Gamma
Princess
*With CSF the only two things making me town lean instead of town are the bop comment in 95 and the cautious vs reckless theme in 106. Lycan explained the concept well in 114. Overall I feel like CSF is probably town but I'm not confident yet.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Damn, if only I could vote two players at once.
Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I feel like the capitalization helped me to draw the connection and the underlying pattern is shade posted in the format of a question with feigned conviction.In post 148, Ythan wrote:
Excuse meIn post 128, Ythan wrote:
Huh?? Are you talking about the capitalization?In post 124, Frogsterking wrote:Here's the scum post from a previous game which Ythan's 62 pinged me for:
viewtopic.php?p=13548554#p13548554Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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I can literally bury Gamma with a case based purely on meta. I'm fine ending the day relatively early as this slot isn't flipping town.
VOTE: Gamma
I already find Gamma and Princess scummy enough to quickhammer. I saw your comment about furtive and that's why I put them in my scum reads. Also I reread furtive's iso and yeah it's bad. Despite that, furtive will have to try harder if he wants to get voted out on D1/D2 because he has stiff competition from Princess and Gamma.In post 150, tris wrote:is no one interested in voting furtive wif me?
He was serious though in the post that I linked to.In post 150, tris wrote:the post u linked looked like a jokeBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I can quote from not one, not two, not three, butIn post 153, Frogsterking wrote:I can literally bury Gamma with a case based purely on meta. I'm fine ending the day relatively early as this slot isn't flipping town.
VOTE: Gammafourseparate scum games which each show Gamma is deep in her scum meta right now.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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The day is basically solved FMPOV provided there is enough support from the commuter players to get a Gamma flip. I think flipping anyone else D1 is suboptimal. I'm a little annoyed that I'm the townie getting piled on instead of Ranger when we have a pretty similar PoE but whatever I'll take it on the chin.
I'm just gloating randomly in the spoilers because I feel confident there are at least two scum in gamma + ythan/furtive/princess/maaaaybe mcmenno.
Spoiler:Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Ehh MT I think you took a step backwards with your vote, I'm pretty sure that KT wasn't intending to shade my slot there and that your random vote on Gamma was actually on scum. KT has opened this way toward my slot as town before:
viewtopic.php?p=13516511#p13516511
Also, the answer to your question toward Gamma is that she isn't trying to sort my slot and the vote was made because we've been in this situation several times before and they just react this way when I call them out as scum. Gamma is definitely more methodical if I push them on accident when we're both town.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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All of the above plus a few things lmaoIn post 187, Morning Tweet wrote:Is it the defeated "you don't want to kill me" coming out so quickly, or the OMGUS read, or sum else
I can quote to three games where Gamma and I were TvS and they made like identical posts in response to pressure, the most recent game being a few weeks ago and the oldest game being a couple years ago lol.
Also I noticed another thing Gamma said which I saw them do in their scum game from Lost.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Good stuff! I'm pretty sure KT-you-me-tris are all townIn post 195, Morning Tweet wrote:Okay so actually Kitty is calling tris town so I'm a bit confused now. It felt like an odd shade to me but actually reading it with tris as a townread it looks more like Kitty is entertaining an alternative theory here. My bad.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:In post 187, Morning Tweet wrote:Lol
How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?
Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233
Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Me neitherIn post 210, Save The Dragons wrote:I dunno if csf is town tho
In post 205, Save The Dragons wrote:I think both gamma and frog are town
I willIn post 208, Save The Dragons wrote:Prove me wrong
'Bruh'..In post 178, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:Using reason will not usually help you correctly determine frog's alignment ime
My eyes glazed over while reading them. It's definitely similar to how I've seen wrongly accused town behave but I want to see if they actually do anything after I give them space or if it's just an act to get people to townread them. I don't think they've actually said anything which is AI for town yet.In post 175, tris wrote:on that note actually, i'd like to hear frog's response to princess's arguments in there.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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What about the other like three games where you used reasoning to correctly deduce my alignment?Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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That's a good sign for your alignment because whenever I catch scum D1 there is always at least one townie who goes "PRETTY MEH CASE IF YOU ASK ME"In post 214, Save The Dragons wrote:Both of you sucked at convincing me
PEdit
I think Quiet Owl might be townBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Also I haven't posted my case on Gamma yet, so I still have a chance.In post 216, Frogsterking wrote:
That's a good sign for your alignment because whenever I catch scum D1 there is always at least one townie who goes "PRETTY MEH CASE IF YOU ASK ME"In post 214, Save The Dragons wrote:Both of you sucked at convincing me
PEdit
I think Quiet Owl might be townBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
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In post 218, Save The Dragons wrote:PRETTY MEH CASE IF YOU ASK ME
Have you and GeorgeBailey played a lot together?Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Is there like some rivalry which might cause you to switch up your game here?In post 220, Save The Dragons wrote:I think we've played more survivor together than mafia
I was asking because of 165. I was wondering if you were playing scum in some way George has seen before, because you aren't playing in a way I've seen before but you've also been playing for a long time.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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The McMennon vote is basically a naked vote and the Yrhan and Gamma votes are poorly explained reactions to my FoS on them. I think voting a player who suspects you and providing some made up reasoning is pretty common level 0 scum play.In post 166, tris wrote:frogster y r those votes scummy.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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And is this a take that you actually have or are you just shading my slot because I put you in my solve? You were in that game I linked to and you recognized my scum play there immediately. What exactly do you think I am not being truthful about considering you have first hand experience?In post 223, HighPrincessErinys wrote:Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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...you were in that game and you easily saw through my fake scum solving, which is primarily what MT was asking. Also, I literally did the things that I claimed (tinfoil, thread bloat, lurk:)In post 228, HighPrincessErinys wrote:Because you can just. Lie?
Spoiler:
Like you are claiming that my response to MT is scummy because of abstract reasoning, but the claims that I made to her about my scum play are easily verifiable and consistent with how I actually approach the game as scum.
You were literally in the dead PT typing in all caps how I was obv scum and town should kill me. Here are the links of you stating this:
viewtopic.php?p=13539112#p13539112
viewtopic.php?p=13548417#p13548417
viewtopic.php?p=13550164#p13550164
MT asked me if I'm good at faking solving as scum and explained that I wasn't, and I explained what I think I am good at, and so I'm curious which of my statements you actually think I was lying about considering my answer is congruent with your own experiences playing with scum!frog?Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Why did you choose to make that point though instead of addressing Tweet's question or my response directly? You're one of few players in this game who has actually played a recent game with scum!frog and you avoided making any meaningful contribution at all.In post 236, HighPrincessErinys wrote:But in all actual seriousness it still really isn't a giant gotcha scumread or whatever. Just a point this one wanted to make.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I didn't say that in my answer to Tweet though? I just like answered their question truthfully? Why are you pretending like you can't understand this?In post 242, HighPrincessErinys wrote:Saying you're town because you aren't doing any of this is.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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You didn't answer their question in any meaningful way which provided new information.In post 243, HighPrincessErinys wrote:because this one answered the one question Tweet asked it, and obviously responded to you too.
Here look:
Why are you being vague like you have no idea how I play? You're just framing my answer to Tweet in the worst possible light and pretending like it's moving the game forward.In post 223, HighPrincessErinys wrote:Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I mean this is just easy to work with because now not only are you shading me, you're also being wishy washy and refusing to commit to a read on my slot.In post 242, HighPrincessErinys wrote:Your play has been... interesting so far, but this one honestly isn't super sure what to think of you in terms of alignment.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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viewtopic.php?p=13587973&user_select%5B ... #p13587973In post 227, Ythan wrote:
Show me where you drew this conclusion.In post 222, Frogsterking wrote:Yrhan and Gamma votes are poorly explained reactions to my FoS on them.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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If I get a chance I'll post an updated reads list and if I have more than time I'll post my meta case on Gamma.
I also did some research on Ythan's meta and I could post the cliff notes of that I guess if I just have oodles of time. My main takeaway from Ythan past games is that they are a very capable player as both alignments and are grossly underperforming this game, not only how they have previously played as Town but also how they have previously played as scum, which makes me suspect Ythan might be 3rd party who wants to fly under the radar.
Off the top of my head for my reads list I liked the first posts from imaginality and quiet owl for +town. Also, I thought my interaction with Dragons today was +town.
*Pedit also 249 I think is +town.
George? Can you elaborate on 165?In post 224, Save The Dragons wrote:
No I got no clue why he called me out like thatIn post 221, Frogsterking wrote:
Is there like some rivalry which might cause you to switch up your game here?In post 220, Save The Dragons wrote:I think we've played more survivor together than mafia
I was asking because of 165. I was wondering if you were playing scum in some way George has seen before, because you aren't playing in a way I've seen before but you've also been playing for a long time.
From who, you? Ythan, the little 3rd party? You couldn't even give a straight answer to Tweet or tris about why you voted me or how you read Gamma/McMenno. What do you expect to accomplish all alone?In post 248, Ythan wrote:Yeah enjoy rope lol.
I guess we should invent new jargon "3rd party bravado." The wiki page for "3rd party bravado" will look like this:
__
PEdit:
Okay thank you for clarifying, 249 does make sense to me overall as a town mindset, and I think attempting to clarify is probably +town.In post 249, HighPrincessErinys wrote:This one thinks we've both kind of lost the plot here. So again, slowly this time:Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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viewtopic.php?p=12952354&user_select%5B ... #p12952354In post 252, Ythan wrote:
Lol tfIn post 250, Frogsterking wrote:I also did some research on Ythan's meta and I could post the cliff notes of that I guess if I just have oodles of time. My main takeaway from Ythan past games is that they are a very capable player as both alignments and are grossly underperforming this game, not only how they have previously played as Town but also how they have previously played as scum, which makes me suspect Ythan might be 3rd party who wants to fly under the radar.
Show me your work.
Nice scum hunting..and high word count..and engagement..passion..very much like yo*cough cough* very much like your play this game.
Also, with regards to your reaction in 252:
The "lol" defence (+1.0)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29Claiming that whatever elaborate or spot-on case you made on them was hilarious. This may sound more like garden variety scumminess, but it's a fairly strong tell and should warrant a vote every time.
__
Hey Elements, I'm actually town this game. I think you replaced into a town slot but I'm not like super sure. Please vote Gamma.
Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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In case anyone is getting burned out trying to read the thread just skip Gamma's posts, they're all intentionally full of shit to waste your time.
Scum hunting, engaging, making posts with more than like five words, having actual reads on the game that they can explain without pretending like they can't understand the question (190, 204)In post 275, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:What do you mean by 'underperforming'?
In post 273, KittyTacky wrote:Gamma became more townie after page 7.I threw up in my mouth. KT my read here is that you're tired but wanted to play so you skimmed the thread, jumped to this conclusion about Gamma, voted me and then went to bed.
Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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That's what you get for sorting this way, then.In post 308, KittyTacky wrote:Mostly on vibes
I haven't referenced any examples yet for my meta read so this explanation makes sense to me.In post 308, KittyTacky wrote:but also I don't think your push has much substance behind it.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I agree. I was thinking that scum!imaginality knows I'm right about scum!gamma so he plays the "I actually think Gamma could be scum here" card, followed by the "gee I'm not sure card" and the "oh yeah remember how csf said they could BOTH be scum" card etc.In post 347, Save The Dragons wrote:imaginality just feels rough and ingenuine
In post 159, imaginality wrote:Oh so this game started... just had a skim so far...
feels scummy
feels like an observation scum would make instead of a genuine town observationIn post 159, imaginality wrote:Frogsterking seems to almost be trying to 1v1 vs Gamma. Seems risky if scum? Doesn't mean he's correct though. I want to know more about these meta reasons for scum reading Gamma.
the second post isn't much better
my one fear is im picking up on tonal stuff that might just be playstyle and i'm not 100% convinced but for now i like my read and i'd love to see more pressure there.
Makes me think imaginality's scum flip will spew csf as town, or, if multiball, unaligned with Gamma and imaginality.
@allAlso: I hate every single one of you for townreading Gamma for absolutely shit reasons, and you all deserve to lose (and probably will) for not backing me up.
VOTE: imaginality
My reads have shifted a little bit:
Csf goes to town/unaligned with gamma+imaginality (assuming imaginality flips same faction as gamma)
Dragons moves up to lock town
Imaginality drops to scum
Ythan I'm tempted to lock as 3rd party because I don't think they're town and I'm not convinced they're aligned with gamma+imaginality eitherBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I agree with this completely and I also stand by my sentiment that the existing town reads on Gamma show a lack of critical thinking.In post 352, Ythan wrote:
It's your job to make a good case not to throw a fit.In post 348, Frogsterking wrote:@all Also: I hate every single one of you for townreading Gamma for absolutely shit reasons, and you all deserve to lose (and probably will) for not backing me up.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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It would be pretty funny if Ranger is scum and just posting bare reads list as a scum strat. The main reason I don't think that is because I agree with almost every single one of their placements. The main difference I noticed in reads was quiet owl. Do you think I got schmoozed earlier by quiet owl, ranger?
KT stands out for sure (308.) I also think there is an element of AtE to it (309, 310.) To clarify though I do think KT can do critical thinking well, I'm saying that I don't think in this one example that those are good reasons. In fact those are things worth scumreading for imo.In post 356, Ythan wrote:
If you'll point out which I'll humor you for a bit.In post 354, Frogsterking wrote:
I agree with this completely and I also stand by my sentiment that the existing town reads on Gamma show a lack of critical thinking.In post 352, Ythan wrote:
It's your job to make a good case not to throw a fit.In post 348, Frogsterking wrote:@all Also: I hate every single one of you for townreading Gamma for absolutely shit reasons, and you all deserve to lose (and probably will) for not backing me up.
In answering your question I realized most players who townread gamma haven't actually explained why.
I want to take a different direction, can players who townread Gamma-I'm thinking csf and dragons especially-explain why you townread Gamma? I have ideas about why, but I'd rather give you a chance to explain.In post 357, Korina wrote:Hi, friendly mod reminder that while mafia is a game that can get heated, please refrain from making personal attacks of any sort. Thank y’all. <3
PEdit
I'm getting major scum pings from Titus right now. 379 needs some explaining.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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This is theater I thinkIn post 387, Gamma Emerald wrote:
It’s not quite like thatIn post 385, Titus wrote:So what do you feel she's not responding to?
I suggest you ISO herBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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1) you outted a lot more reads than usual in 379 so you haven't really been cageyIn post 391, Titus wrote:
Isn't your whole point that CSF is selectively responding though? How would reading her ISO help?In post 387, Gamma Emerald wrote:
It’s not quite like thatIn post 385, Titus wrote:So what do you feel she's not responding to?
I suggest you ISO her
Also, Frogsterking failed my test. Frogsterking gets a certain level of annoyed when I'm cagey as town and instead, he's looking to discredit.
2) in 389 I asked you to explain your reads almost immediately after I see your posts
3) in 357 an authority figure issues a general warning so it makes sense I would be keeping my anger in check
4) I'm not sure what would cause you to terminate your reaction test now. You already had my attention in 389, why not stall and see what I do?
You are really being the opposite of cagey both by having multiple scum reads in 379 and revealing your plans now.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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I missed this placement the first time too. I can definitely see myself getting schmoozed out of a good RVS read by this lycan.In post 375, Ranger wrote:{Lycanfire}
Thank you for clarifying, that is really different imoIn post 263, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
My wording was probably imprecise. To be clear, the reasoning you use to push people and how you arrive at reads can be unusual, which makes you liable to be read as scummy. I don't think the reason behind Ythan's vote, for instance, is an actual scum tell for you.In post 211, Frogsterking wrote: 'Bruh'..Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Do I need to explain why imaginality's last two posts are scummy? Even knowing nothing about the player I feel comfortable putting them on a similar place in my PoE as Gamma which is basically conf scum.
@TitusI'm expecting a response to 404.
I was a UTR in large normal 242 so it makes sense I would become frustrated faster in this game than in that one. I'm not sure how much of that game you read because I became pretty frustrated when I was unable to get Pooky eliminated D2. I recall telling town that I was done with them for a little while and ghosting the thread for a couple of days after town massclaimed for no reason (and still wouldn't vote Pooky) on D2.In post 404, Lycanfire wrote:in large normal 242 he was town, and by all accounts pushy enough, but didn't seem to resort to this kind of AtE.
That's a really loaded question: no, I doubt I've technically used those words before, and yes, I've become angry and heated in almost every single one of my town games and have lashed out in a wide variety of ways at every level of intensity from a fleeting spark to a smoldering ember to the raging inferno of the sun:In post 404, Lycanfire wrote:@frogster do you usually say you hate everyone for not following you on a read?
viewtopic.php?p=13465206&f=2#p13465206
I don't think there's any reason to consider the line AI one way or the other. The anger is more suggestive of my town game but it's an easy line to fake. I feel like this kind of exploration will help you become more familiar with me as a player but I'm skeptical you'll be able to reach any kind of closure from it on my alignment.
What does this mean?In post 404, Lycanfire wrote:AtE is something that actually seems to trip up frogster.
I thought the narrative "frog is scum who gave up on pushing Gamma and switched to me" was pretty level -1. It's pretty clear they switched to me because I'm the competing wagon. Had I not switched off of Gamma earlier then you can just as easily write "frog is scum who is pretending to death tunnel Gamma" as an excuse to bandwagon me. Without context why they think my read is disingenuous then it's just a lazy, clichè take followed by a naked vote. I'm glad it's a scum slot pushing this narrative rather than a town one.In post 434, Save The Dragons wrote:
like how fucking easy is it for scum to come up with this bullshitIn post 426, imaginality wrote:The votes on me are lazy and/or scummy (likely a mix).Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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In post 434, Save The Dragons wrote:
like how fucking easy is it for scum to come up with this bullshitIn post 426, imaginality wrote:The votes on me are lazy and/or scummy (likely a mix).
I don't understand why imaginality's lazy scum posts stand out to you while at the same time this stuff gets passed over:In post 441, Frogsterking wrote:I thought the narrative "frog is scum who gave up on pushing Gamma and switched to me" was pretty level -1. It's pretty clear they switched to me because I'm the competing wagon. Had I not switched off of Gamma earlier then you can just as easily write "frog is scum who is pretending to death tunnel Gamma" as an excuse to bandwagon me. Without context why they think my read is disingenuous then it's just a lazy, clichè take followed by a naked vote. I'm glad it's a scum slot pushing this narrative rather than a town one.
In post 425, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Good breadth of interestIn post 418, tris wrote:
y?In post 317, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I like thisIn post 295, HighPrincessErinys wrote:Frog meta stuff aside, this one is wondering where tapiocaphobe and Vaxkiller are, and where Ranger went.
She's just inflating her post count so it looks like she's being actively engaged with the game.In post 436, Gamma Emerald wrote:This game feels weird as hellBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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This is really forced distancing. There is no reason to believe there is any existing tension between Gamma and Titus.In post 450, Gamma Emerald wrote:
tf are you saying hereIn post 446, Titus wrote:Define lazily. I'm going to push you because you're straight up wrong. I'm going to figure out your issue StD and set you correctly.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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This is just arguing for the sake of arguing because Gamma and Titus "don't want to look associated" despite currently coordinating their votes together to keep my wagon on life support.In post 454, Titus wrote:
I'm saying StD is 100% wrong and trying. So I'm going to show him he's wrong and get him pointed in the right direction, even if I am not 100% sure where it is myself.In post 450, Gamma Emerald wrote:
tf are you saying hereIn post 446, Titus wrote:Define lazily. I'm going to push you because you're straight up wrong. I'm going to figure out your issue StD and set you correctly.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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This is just as good as ignoring 396 entirely because you aren't addressing anything I said in any meaningful way. You obviously have time to write a meaningful response because you're still active in the thread executing your shitty "distancing" with Gamma and writing more non-answers to Dragons. I don't know what "tone" you're pretending to look for right now because it's pretty obvious I think your answers are useless.In post 448, Titus wrote:
Not what I'm looking for tonally. Sorry.In post 396, Frogsterking wrote:
1) you outted a lot more reads than usual in 379 so you haven't really been cageyIn post 391, Titus wrote:
Isn't your whole point that CSF is selectively responding though? How would reading her ISO help?In post 387, Gamma Emerald wrote:
It’s not quite like thatIn post 385, Titus wrote:So what do you feel she's not responding to?
I suggest you ISO her
Also, Frogsterking failed my test. Frogsterking gets a certain level of annoyed when I'm cagey as town and instead, he's looking to discredit.
2) in 389 I asked you to explain your reads almost immediately after I see your posts
3) in 357 an authority figure issues a general warning so it makes sense I would be keeping my anger in check
4) I'm not sure what would cause you to terminate your reaction test now. You already had my attention in 389, why not stall and see what I do?
You are really being the opposite of cagey both by having multiple scum reads in 379 and revealing your plans now.
Reads list supposing imaginality is town.
Welp that was faster than I thoughtBruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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- Location: Pond
In post 462, Titus wrote:
Take an idea. How could I?In post 460, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Why do you townread imaginality so hard? I feel like he’s suspicious but I don’t vibe with how the wagon on him formed.In post 454, Titus wrote:
I'm saying StD is 100% wrong and trying. So I'm going to show him he's wrong and get him pointed in the right direction, even if I am not 100% sure where it is myself.In post 450, Gamma Emerald wrote:
tf are you saying hereIn post 446, Titus wrote:Define lazily. I'm going to push you because you're straight up wrong. I'm going to figure out your issue StD and set you correctly.
Nice forced, fake-looking conclusion to a forced, fake-looking argument which went absolutely nowhere.In post 463, Gamma Emerald wrote:Hmm. I get the message.Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.-
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6935
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Frogsterking He/himJack of All TradesHe/him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6935
- Joined: June 20, 2011
- Pronoun: He/him
- Location: Pond