Micro 898 | Forest Fire | Over
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january Goon
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january Goon
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also: im aware that my slot has been pretty heavily scumread but in my (completely unbiased!) opinion psyche was actually quite towny and would place him around 2nd or 3rd on that list^
i feel like he was scumread mostly for the way he posted rather than the content itself... if that makes sense? like to me dann is obvtown because he's more active and leader-y but i feel like theres a few of psyche's posts that were quite towny but ignored-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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yep for sure
ok next post will be a little bit long and very slowly answers your question... sorry for wallposting so soon (not really)
but one thing is that i would have placed pyrrha higher except
1. i feel annoyed for psyche just reading pyrrha's tunnel on him
2. i feel like there's been some places where it just seems to me that pyrrha is just following dann (i.e. 1020)-
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january Goon
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but i'll get back to my pyrrha read later. it might just be paranoia?
ok read on banakai
all kinda centers around a discussion in d1 i think(?)
Spoiler: quotes
it sorta seems to me like all 3 of u guys (PP, Banakai, Dann) all townslipped by assuming maf had daytalk
but of the 3, i felt that banakai was the most... lowkey(?) about the assumption of daytalk
i think if he was mafia there he'd either try to make the "townslip" more obvious by explicitly mentioning daytalk, but instead he just says "yeah answer PP's question"-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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this is a somewhat unpopular opinion maybe but i feel like pyrrha has a pretty high scum potential.. i would actually put her lower on the list but i feel like she has both scumtold AND towntold which is confusing my reads atm
idk what's up with my slot and being the only one who scumreads pyrrha lol-
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january Goon
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nope sorryIn post 1174, Dannflor wrote:actually, january, do you have any recent completed scum games?
I feel pretty confident your slot is town but I still must pay my dues
this is my 2nd game on this site and the 1st was town
i'd like to think my towngame is pretty strong town and my scumgame a lot weaker? but nobody's would trust me when i say that lol-
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january Goon
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yeah fair i felt like pyrrha's early d1 was a lot scummier than the rest
i did base most of my reads on early game just because i skimmed through late d1 and early d2
i just feel like her playstyle just seems a bit... different? feels like her reads are a bit too jumpy. i'm a bit lazy to compare meta rn but if anyone has info i'd appreciate it
oh and also i feel like she's relying way too much on meta to make reads. for example the sheep read - felt like if she had disregarded meta then sheep would have been pretty obvmaf to her. forgot if she ended up changing her mind but my point is just that meta does not go nearly as far as you might think it does-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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well the link's broke and it clearly says 727... so
Spoiler:
and lmao can you read psyche instead of saying that he's scum because of someone who posted literally 2 times
is that where your read originally came from bc i feel like you've been tunneling my slot for quite a long time and it reads as justifying an already-made read rather than an organic read-
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january Goon
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did you quote the wrong post too lolIn post 1189, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
january trying to push me here, is pinging me pretty hard. If he tries to push a mislynch on me, he’s defacto scumclaiming imo.In post 1187, Dannflor wrote:
Pine had 2 posts...In post 1185, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:I thought Pine was extremely scummy.
And yeah I'm gonna case Gamma but not tonight
and idk why you think that someone scumreading you makes them scum...
its not like you've been towny lmfao-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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i never said that i scumread you for making meta reads?In post 1192, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
Making meta reads makes you sr me, why?In post 1182, january wrote:yeah fair i felt like pyrrha's early d1 was a lot scummier than the rest
i did base most of my reads on early game just because i skimmed through late d1 and early d2
i just feel like her playstyle just seems a bit... different?feels like her reads are a bit too jumpy.i'm a bit lazy to compare meta rn but if anyone has info i'd appreciate it
oh and also i feel like she's relying way too much on meta to make reads. for example the sheep read - felt like if she had disregarded meta then sheep would have been pretty obvmaf to her. forgot if she ended up changing her mind but my point is just that meta does not go nearly as far as you might think it does
they're two different paragraphs because they're two different ideas
bold = why i scumread you
last paragraph = a comment on your playstyle-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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is this a trap question lolIn post 1197, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
Hey, are you willing to go 1v1 with me and get me stumped and you follow because I won’t hesitate to do that if you continue to push me? Because I think Dann is wrong and I’m willing to bet the game on it. Are you?In post 1191, january wrote:
did you quote the wrong post too lolIn post 1189, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
january trying to push me here, is pinging me pretty hard. If he tries to push a mislynch on me, he’s defacto scumclaiming imo.In post 1187, Dannflor wrote:
Pine had 2 posts...In post 1185, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:I thought Pine was extremely scummy.
And yeah I'm gonna case Gamma but not tonight
and idk why you think that someone scumreading you makes them scum...
its not like you've been towny lmfao
no i don't want to stump you but if you keep misrepping my posts (or just ignoring half the stuff i say maybe?) then i'm willing to lynch you if all you're gonna do is tunnel me because i don't think a genuine town would be so unwilling to rethink their reads
and no i'm definitely not gonna follow you (whichever meaning you're talking about there). a) i'm not gonna follow your reads i'm gonna make my own / b) i'm not gonna get lynched because i'm towntelling
and no i'm not trying to stump you? i'm trying to lynch you if you're maf and i think you might be maf!
but also you're refusing to even read me and all you've done is omgus me.. and psyche
if you need proof on the above statement: are you aware that i called gamma my strongest scumread? or are you just ignoring it?
bc that means that i want to lynch gamma over you rn!-
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january Goon
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it's fking intended to be NAIIn post 1201, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:That last paragraph is entirely NAI, hence at least part of the reason I’m suspicious of this.
i'm just commenting on your play and trying to say that you should base your reads less on meta
and you scumread me for saying something NAI? everyone's said something NAI and i don't think this makes me any more scummy than everyone else?
i get it if you don't like me criticizing your reads... if that's the problem i'll stop...
but don't say that my criticizing reads without making alignment conclusions is scummy because it sure as hell isn't-
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january Goon
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it's a hypothetical and i wasn't talking about you i was talking about dannIn post 1204, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
Yeah, if you started this day sr Dann, I’d probably also call you scum. You’re lhf yes? So, why wouldn’t I sr for pushingIn post 1196, january wrote:ok well that's quite annoying lol
if i was to randomly start this day scumreading dann, i think he'd ask me why rather than just quickly calling me scum
and i'd townread him more for thatanyonewhom I read as obvtown?
and oh idk because people have different reads maybe?-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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sorry i'll spell everything i say out very very clearly
beating you if you forced a 1v1 would improve my ego because it would mean i'm townier than you
this would prove that you are incorrect about you being more "obvtown" than me and therefore mean that i am actually more "obvtown" than you
thus improving my fragile ego by proving that i am better than you
QED-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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no its not the same thing at all
at this exact moment of time where i am very annoyed with you, my ego does not care about winning the game and cares much more about proving you wrong
hopefully that changes tomorrow!
i already explained the banakai read so if you reread that it'll save us both some time
and gamma's mostly PoE but i'll quote some stuff tomorrow-
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january Goon
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exactly! you're supporting my point rn!
if i win the hypothetical 1v1 then it proves you wrong, thus it's an "ego lynch" rather than a game-furthering lynch. i come from a site where people accept these as 2 different things, so maybe we're just using different vocabulary. maybe "annoyed with you so i lynch you without regard to whether or not i think you're scum" is a better description of what i mean by "ego lynch"?
of course your ego didn't feel good lynching eth0s he was obvious town lol-
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january Goon
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well can u ask questions instead because if you're just asking me to explain the banakai read again then i'll literally just copy and paste what i just wrong bc nothing's changed
i'm fine with doing react-y posts but if you want me to actually quote anything you'll have to wait till tomorrow bc i'm in bed-
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january Goon
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i think he did. is there anything you want to discuss?In post 1223, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:I’m still not sure how Banaki “townslipped” here?
didn't read this, can you quote it?What did you think about him saying that Ehos wanted to be stumped?
idk what this is either... didn't read it. i definitely based most of my read on what i believe to be a townslipAlso, it still bugs me that he was equally gung ho about the Ethos’ mislynch, yet he still inexplicably blamed me for leading it.
being the very first on a bad wagon tends to be a town thing imo. scum usually is too scared to lead the wagon? obviously not true all the time but reads to me that banakai probably would not have done that on d1. imo this is at worst NAI but at best a towntell (ish)Being first on a bad wagon /= “leading/driving a mislynch, so both of those things still ping me.
so like... i also did not read this? maybe the townslip clouded my judgement but i've been skipping over his posts.Plus his play recently has been seriously underwhelming. Also, him accusing Dann of “fake townslipping”, sounded like a weird thing to say.
fair enough, i agree with some of your reads and i get why you'd be scumreading me and/or banakai if only because there's literally nobody else to scumreadLike if we lynch Gamma and game doesn’t end, it’s 100% not me. I can’t see a world where it’s Dann and I hard tr Penguin and I still don’t see how Gamma is a sheep buddy. So that’s where I’m at.
but i do think i've towntold and so has psyche so i'm asking you to reconsider-
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january Goon
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can you quote the interactions where u think gamma can't be buddies with sheep? i have a vague idea of what you're talking about but i'd like to see if it matches with me
i don't think gamma towntold and i feel like their scummy-ness outweighs the read that they don't partner with sheep but maybe there's something i misssed-
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january Goon
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well the ego of the person who died would be hurt for sure... but not the one who winsIn post 1225, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:Okay, I’m starting to get what you meant by the ego thing but if I did a 1 v 1 with town, my ego would take a massive beating because then I obviously died for nothing.-
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january Goon
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it seems we just have really different methods of making reads tbhIn post 1224, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:How was he “obvious town”? He was death tunneling me and trying to hard drive my mislynch?
he was obvtown to me upon reading (and i didn't check who the d1 lynch was, just to see if my reads lined up)
and i believe that sometimes town deathtunnels town. hell, i've done that myself.
it's just a product of having bad reads and i wouldn't auto-scumread someone just for scumreading me, EVEN if i thought myself to be obvious town. sure, i'd ask for their reasoning and be a little insulted, but i'd only actually scumread them if i didn't feel like their logic lined up.
example: you scumreading psyche who i felt was obvtown. i didn't scumread you for thinking psyche was maf, but rather a combination of what felt to me to be faulty logic and other interactions.-
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january Goon
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tbf i did consider that that might've been a fake townslip from one of them and dann did feel the most likely (to be clear, i decided it probably wasn't, but i did consider it)
and banakai considering it actually makes HIS townslip even more towny imo
feels like u might be doing the thing again where u scumread banakai for scumreading your top tr
bc i think it's a valid consideration
oh YEAH and i townread banakai for going after dann when nobody else did. i think he's wrong but it's way too contrarian(?) to be scum imo-
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january Goon
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i think it's too hard to try to read for interactions w sheep and clear someone based on it, bc interactions are pretty unpredictable whenever there's a mafchat, even if it's only nightchat (i've had games where there's no chat and it's quite a bit different)
do you think gamma is independently scummy?-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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tmi isn't scummy necessarily it's just a playstyle
some people just put all their unfiltered thoughts in the thread
can't talk for banakai but 742 seems... fine? to me at least.
if i genuinely believed someone was scum but everyone else thought was town, i'd say something along those lines somewhat out of frustration. i've definitely done that in games before where it's like "this person seems like obvscum to me but everyone else says their town... do they have to continue leading mislynches before people realize they're town?"
pretend it's someone else and not you. it seems normal to me?-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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partially yes but that was mostly sarcasticIn post 1262, Blatant Scum wrote:
This means you read the game before recieving PM?In post 1165, january wrote:(completely unbiased!)-
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january Goon
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In post 1264, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:@january, can you link me one of your town and scumgames?
r.e.a.d. p.l.s.In post 1177, january wrote:
nope sorryIn post 1174, Dannflor wrote:actually, january, do you have any recent completed scum games?
I feel pretty confident your slot is town but I still must pay my dues
this is my 2nd game on this site and the 1st was town
i'd like to think my towngame is pretty strong town and my scumgame a lot weaker? but nobody's would trust me when i say that lol
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81110 is towngame
feel free to compare... but i don't think it'll get you that far tbh-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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it means i read part of the gameIn post 1335, Blatant Scum wrote:
Partially means what?In post 1268, january wrote:
partially yes but that was mostly sarcasticIn post 1262, Blatant Scum wrote:
This means you read the game before recieving PM?In post 1165, january wrote:(completely unbiased!)
i think it was the first 10 pages or so? a few of psyche’s lines and i got a general sense of towniness?
kinda forgot exactly when i got the pm and i didn’t really make it a point to distinguish pre-PM reads from post-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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january Goon
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anyways... back to reads
this is a bit confusing i thought there could be no other scum than gamma but apparently there is?? literally... nobody else can be maf wtf
all this does is increase paranoia on the towniest slots
might end up rereading banakai bc there’s a chance i’m just townreading him because i feel like the scumreads on him are faulty/incorrect. fallacy fallacy or something i think?-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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this was based on my memory of reading of the first few pages before i replaced inIn post 1383, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:
I’m not sure why you’d think that? Not Gamma obviously but I viewed his locktown read on me as a blatant pocket, as was the case with Dann and probably also BS.In post 1374, january wrote:sure, doing that right now
from what i remember though i would have said pyrrha d1 and gamma d2 (i know gamma’s clear but it felt like sheep was trying to implicate them?)
i’ll let you know upon reread if that changed
i could explain why i thought that... but it's extra work and honestly won't get us anywhere except into an argument
i no longer believe that read and it was made before i knew alignment, so it really has no relevance to the game
@Dann
whoops i got distracted but
i think this is the post that would give me the most partner-interactions if i could think straight rn...In post 192, sheepsaysmeep wrote: sheep, bs, pyrrha, banakai, dann all some degree above null
leaving gamma, ethos, pine, penguin
maybe? idk
if i were sheep i'd probably put my partner in the null pool unless i thought my partner actually did towntell. so that would mean penguin would be scumpartner?
bc i don't think banakai actually towntold at that point. so putting partner-banakai in the tr pool seems like a bad idea for sheep.
the only alternative is that one of the actually towny people is maf. and i don't really think that's likely
not very confident about this but i do think i've skimmed over penguin and need to read them more... whenever i can commit to doing that...
i'm on holiday for the rest of the week so i may take a while-
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january Goon
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and i feel like this interaction could go either way so i'd say disregard this part
on one hand, this could be an attempted halfhearted bus between sheep and partner-banakai bc the reads backing this are kinda lacking
on the other hand, could be an attempt to make it seem like a bus. or it's just sheep's attempt to get a scummytown lynched
love wifom-
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january Goon
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i've never heard the term endgame before but i'm assuming it means something like surviving till the end?
in that case, yes i agree that sheep was probably not expecting to survive to the end bc of dann
so yeah, sheep was probably setting his partner up. not sure how thats relevant to what i said though, i was talking about scum partner distancing
but this is exactly what i'm trying to say?Nothing in sheep’s interactions with Penguin suggest he’s being set up to endgame.
sheep putting partner in null reads would be an attempt to distance, which means that he's setting them up for endgame, right?
putting banakai in his townreads could also be set up to look like buddies?
so i don't really think your read quite works bc sheep had buddy-ish interactions with literally everyone
i mean this is basically what i already said in 1396
that i think scum would be more likely to put the people they want to buddy in their TR's and the people they want to distance from in their SR's/null
^ or at least, that's whatIto do
but i guess it could be the other way around if they're trying to wifom?
i generally don't like making reads purely based on partner interactions because it's quite easy to fake an interaction one way or the other-
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january Goon
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this tends to be true, but it's not really any indicator or justification of who is mafia...In post 1400, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:Another thing that makes Banaki very likely scum is that scum frequently play this game of having diametrically opposing reads on a slot, so for example, sheep locktowns me and Banaki targets me or you or BS as scum. depending on who thinks he has a snowball’s chance of mislynching outside of whom he perceives is his biggest threat, which is obviously me.
the fact that someone has opposite reads than a confirmed scum doesn't mean that they're mafia. lots of town could accidentally end up with opposite reads from scum.
it might work the other way where two people with identical reads are likely not maf.
but your logic here is confbiased and not actually logical-
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january Goon
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conversely:In post 1400, Pyrrha Nikos wrote:But Banaki’s play during most of the sheep wagon, wasn’t townie. Do you as town, just make a wolfy pop in and do jack, while your presumable “straongest townread” is getting (according to you) “mislynched”?
In what world does that ever come from town?
is mafia just gonna do nothing when their partner is being lynched?
- I, as scum, would either flip to bussing or attempt to defend them.
or:
is a self-conscious mafia going to act so blatantly scummy and let their strongest townread get mislynched?
- I, as scum, would definitely try to be somewhat towny and either make an excuse of a "changing read" or something, rather than just let my townread die and make me look bad for not doing anything.
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i feel like a lot of your evidence is interpreted in a way that justifies your pre-existing reads, because you tend to ignore that the evidence can quite easily be used to argue the complete opposite. and that's why reads completely flip way too quickly
i'm trying to make you consider your reads more and not necessarily dissuading the bw (yet)
but i really feel like even if you're right on this, your reasoning for it isn't correct-
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january Goon
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january Goon
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oh and btw this is kinda late and mostly irrelevant bc i hope we can lynch maf in less than 3 lynches
it was better for FF not to out who they (poured water on? i forgot what the power was called)
bc if mafia thinks they're successful with dousing every night, then they'll try to ignite after ML #2, which would decrease our lynchpool and increase odds purely statistically
I counted the lynches and stuff that we have left so I might as well post it here even though hopefully we don't need to get that far
Spoiler: lynch math
tldr - we have 3 chances to lynch maf if any one of the douses failed or died-
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january Goon
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to be completely honest i was kinda hoping to hear someone else's read on penguin and then make my read based on that... probably laziness or something idk
but since you asked i'll try
i think there were spots where every player did towntell, including BS (and i'll explain that later). in hindsight, i guess gamma just seemed extra scummy because they weren't actually trying to towntell (i think)
clearly will have to adjust my reads more and i think i mostly just didn't read the rest of the people since i was stuck on gamma being scum or something-
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january Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 587
- Joined: October 14, 2019
- Location: United States
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january Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 587
- Joined: October 14, 2019
- Location: United States