Micro 991: Names on the List [game over!]

[clidd]

It's a hemorrhagic pleasure to be here,

We have to make sure that this individual isn't scum or eliminate him as soon as possible:

VOTE: volxen

[clidd]

I had a hard scumread on DK in our first game together, but after a while I learned that he plays like that in both alignments. Nothing he said in this game, so far, is ai in my opinion.

[clidd]

I'm feeling good about Raya, but this is a tone thing.

[clidd]

Many of Gimli's reads in relation to DK seem like things that I could manufacture as scum to push someone, but I still believe that there is a scenario where he is not used to DK and, by default, interpreted his entire line of action as too weird to be town. I'm waiting to see which way my impression on him will go.

[clidd]

Ahsoka didn't townspew yet, which is strange.

Not a ping, but something I found interesting to mention. She probably knows what I'm talking about, although we can't discuss it at the moment.

[clidd]

By the way, what are your impressions about the players, Volxen?

Pedit: Hallo, Raya.

[clidd]

I had a hard scumread on DK in our first game together, but after a while I learned that he plays like that in both alignments. Nothing he said in this game, so far, is ai in my opinion.

They****

[clidd]

Many of Gimli's reads in relation to DK seem like things that I could manufacture as scum to push someone, but I still believe that there is a scenario where he is not used to DK and, by default, interpreted his entire line of action as too weird to be town. I'm waiting to see which way my impression on him will go.

Hullo! I never played with anyone in this lineup except for horsewoman, so yes I'm not 'used' to the players. However, my scumread on dkkoba has nothing to do with 'weird'. I interpreted their posts, some of them at least, as dishonest or otherwise just scummy behaviour. Also I'm not sure you should say, even if you played with someone before, that out of their 34 posts none of them was alignment indicative. Surely you just can't read them either way and that's fine, and maybe if I had your experience with dkkoba I wouldn't read them as AI either, but that doesn't mean they're not AI. I liked your posts otherwise except for that word 'weird' which bothered me a little.

Raya with the softballs to dk again. No interest in koba's alignment while posting to them.

"Weird to be town" was the first thing that came to my mind when I tried to read them in the game I mentioned and I imagined that unconsciously would apply to you too. DK is the type of person who is easily misunderstood if you don't like their post flow, and is a very sensitive slot in terms of what can be considered AI or not. I would say that none of their posts so far have given me the impression of "this is town!DK" or "this is scum!DK", which is why I am warning you (assuming you are town, of course ) to keep an open mind towards them.

[clidd]

Ahsoka didn't townspew yet, which is strange.

Not a ping, but something I found interesting to mention. She probably knows what I'm talking about, although we can't discuss it at the moment.

maybe you should. is she obvtown when she is town? is 'townspew' referring to some other thing?

It's similar to that, but it refers to a game in progress, so I can't go into details.

But in other words, she probably gives a strong towny impression when she's town (from my point of view) and I’m trying to see whether the lack of it could be AI, but it doesn’t look like she really engaged with the game, so I’m going to wait a while more.

Pedit: Huuum, spicy.

[clidd]

last post of the day is a retraction of that ahsoka townlean after much consideration.

in fact I think her entrances in the thread are very bad with the flow of everything and point to scum.

will develop on this read tomorrow.

VOTE: ahsoka

I sympathize with this impression, but I am a little more concerned with Volxen. The mech wall made me uncomfortable and I want to understand his slot better before moving on.

[clidd]

I had a hard scumread on DK in our first game together, but after a while I learned that he plays like that in both alignments. Nothing he said in this game, so far, is ai in my opinion.

u hard scumread me? i thought I was the one who pushed u hard lol

I was hardscumreading you during your push on me (and angry). Just at the end of the day I managed to break free from the bias and see that you were town too.

But a lot of that scenario was my fault for playing super scummy as a town.

[clidd]

last post of the day is a retraction of that ahsoka townlean after much consideration.

in fact I think her entrances in the thread are very bad with the flow of everything and point to scum.

will develop on this read tomorrow.

VOTE: ahsoka

I sympathize with this impression, but I am a little more concerned with Volxen. The mech wall made me uncomfortable and I want to understand his slot better before moving on.

y does it make u uncomfortable

It reflects me as malicious, but not explicitly. It is a personal feeling.

I already made some posts of mech stuff (as scum) and even though it should be seen naturally as nai, I noticed that some players seemed to trust me more.

Here: viewtopic.php?p=11811488#p11811488

Not saying it is scummy, but in the context of Volxen, who is a very competent player as scum, it gave me a shiver.

I remember other example too about I correctly scumreading scum with the same feeling, but I need to take a look to see if I can find the game.

[clidd]

But if Volxen is town, he will towntell.

At least that's what I expect.

[clidd]

But if Volxen is town, he will towntell.

At least that's what I expect.

their first post said "merry christmas" i expect they are busy with holidays which is why i'm personally giving them a 24 hour pass for now. the 26th? all bets are off then.

I forgot that, yeah.

[clidd]

Radja is obvscum

honestly I vibe with this NM read

Idk about this read. I need an opinion of someone who has already played with Radja, and I am too lazy to make a metadive.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Are you sure you didn't succumb to the dark side of the force here?

[clidd]

Actually,

red side

.

[clidd]

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

I usually push players who are vocally weaker compared to me as scum, and Volxen doesn't fit that criteria.

Unless I have a specific context for pushing a player that is vocally difficult to eliminate (as I did on partition with ABR)

[clidd]

Perhaps I would be tempted to push Gimli using his weak context of suspicion about DK as a starting point, while trying to indirectly persuade a conflict between Gimli and DK to see which side would receive the most friction. Alternatively, Radja would be an interesting choice if he followed a more vague line of interaction with the game. It would also depend on who my partner was.

[clidd]

But, well, guess what? we're in one of my towngames, so my current route is primarily to find out if Volxen is town or not. If so, I can interact with others and eventually get a concrete read on DK. If these two slots are town, I believe the game will be 80% easier to solve.

[clidd]

lol the only reason ABR is hard to lim is because he gets extremely whiny when he gets FOSed

In that game, in particular, I found it very difficult to push him. But I believe that he may be a little more susceptible to pocket if you show that you are reasoning with him and agree with what he proposes.

[clidd]

I would

never

succumb to the dark side like my master before me.

Hey, I haven't forgotten about you.

When possible, I would like to see your takes on the game.



I feel a disturbance in the *force* and maybe it's coming from you.

[clidd]

idk i only played against him when they were scum and i replaced into a game where i found them to be extremely obvious.

maybe their town meta is distinct! who knows.

I played as scum against town!him and as scum partner of scum!him. I thought he had a competent game as scum, but his towngame surprised me. He is very strong fighting against scum and it is very tiring to try to face him in a 1v1 (that's why I imagine pocket is a healthier thing to use if you're scum against him).

[clidd]

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

I usually push players who are vocally weaker compared to me as scum, and Volxen doesn't fit that criteria.

Unless I have a specific context for pushing a player that is vocally difficult to eliminate (as I did on partition with ABR)

I don't know Volxen but I'll keep this in mind. That was a long explanation to say that's not who you'd push as scum. Self-meta like that isn't something I read into much. For all I know the reason you're potentially setting up a push on volxen instead of the other options you gave is because the other options include your partners.

I mean, the Volxen push is the most unusual timeline for scum!me, but yeah, I understand you pov.

[clidd]

Ahsoka, I was interested to see your thoughts on the active slots. It doesn't have to be detailed, it can be a summary.

[clidd]

If you don't have time, fine, it could be later, but it's important for me to see what you're thinking.

pedit: I couldn't absorb anything ai from your 143.

[clidd]

So you don't have any strong read that you like to talk and that's ok because it's page 6 and I'm the villain for wanting to force something that theoretically you would not be able to deliver bc you're town and town don't have real reads early game. Is that it?

[clidd]

I hoped you would be inclined to create something, but at least you were sincere and firm in what you said. It is not ideal, but it is already something.

pedit: I feel like a villain by the tone you approached the subject, but don't worry.

pedit: what

[clidd]

It isn't flavor, I think.

[clidd]

I kind of want to fight here, but I'm on mobile (rip).

[clidd]

Aren't I 3:0 against you?

[clidd]

But if you're, in fact, Flavor, I have a big respect for your scumgame regardless of your alignment here

[clidd]

Ok, we'll be grateful if you do that.

But I would like if you could say more later about what do you think about the game and etc.

[clidd]

Now there are three slots I need to read: Volxen, DK and Ahsoka

I will reflect on the show while sleeping, maybe I will have a better interpretation of it in the morning.

[clidd]

Me reading Volxen's posts:

[clidd]

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

I usually push players who are vocally weaker compared to me as scum, and Volxen doesn't fit that criteria.

Unless I have a specific context for pushing a player that is vocally difficult to eliminate (as I did on partition with ABR)

After our last game together -- where we were both town and I incorrectly scumread you early on in the game because I was suspicious of your "easy" townread on me -- I think it's plausible that scum!you would be aggressive towards my slot and push me in the beginning. You know I'm skeptical of people who townread me if I can't follow their reasoning. So if anything, I would expect scum!you to err on the side of being too aggressive towards my slot (rather than whiteknight me), at least initially, because you could always pull back later and have your read of me "evolve" into a townread if I started to become more widely townread.

I don't know if scum!you would necessarily deathtunnel me, but I am convinced after our last game together that scum!you would be very cautious with things like the timing of when you might fake a townread on me and your fake reasons for doing so, because you know that I would call you out on it if I felt that your reasons for townreading me were not genuine.

So I don't buy this narrative at all that scum!you would always start off by pushing the less vocal slots.

You basically said what I wanted to hear. I would suspect if you ignored the connection to our past game, even though you were in hydra shape there. The premise of scum!Clidd cautiously suspecting town!Volxen for knowing how the town!Volxen townread process works is correct.

[clidd]

185 -

This is a personal impression, as I mentioned earlier. The red parts were to see what kind of reaction you would have to my accusation.

I'm not sure why the timing of me expanding this issue sooner or later would be relevant, considering that you haven't yet interacted significantly with me.
But with your latest posts, I'm having towny vibes with the descriptions of your line of reasoning.

[clidd]

I'm vibing with Volxen, he towntell already.

You're the next I want to sort.

VOTE: Ahsoka

I wanted DK before you, but knowing the nature of who you are, my priority has changed.

[clidd]

Yes, Raya. I had to keep up appearances until Volxen reacted to me.

[clidd]

Not everything, but it worked for me.

[clidd]

I mean, I may be making this up now because I finally got a read on Volxen, but this is something I could do in both alignments.

[clidd]

One thing I realized about Volxen after losing to scum!him and playing with town!he is that there is an expressive superficiality when he creates reads as scum.

The fact that I was able to perfectly align my understanding with his line of reasoning is an indication, for me, of genuineness that I attribute to town!Volxen.

Not saying that I am absolutely correct, but it is the prevailing impression at the moment.

[clidd]

An example of this type of impression is this post (

town!volxen

):

viewtopic.php?p=12060913#p12060913

I can feel it when Volxen presents a line of reasoning that I look at and think ''gee, this analysis is super towny, I think I would think the same if we switch places''.

Unlike this, for example (

scum!volxen

):

viewtopic.php?p=11618440#p11618440

Where I can smell superficiality 1 km away.

[clidd]

I get that but I'm talking about the specific context of him calling out your lie about you not pushing him. Regardless of his alignment, him calling you out on that is truth therefore you wouldn't be able to detect that superficiality if he was scum and it should be genuine.

I think that logically, you're right.

The point is that I am taking more of an approach with I am feeling in relation to what he is posting and whether the line of reasoning seems to me towny or scummy.

[clidd]

So you are saying that he can sound towny because he is addressing a topic where he would not need to lie regardless of alignment and me having a tr on him at this point based on impressions of genuine is not valid because he can be scum being genuine and he called me out correctly in my line of action as scum!clidd and now i'm pretending it was part of my plan to get a reaction from him. I got it.

[clidd]

i think its not worth pushing volxen rn because they give me the impression of a player who thrives better when not pushed on. And if theyre scum they'll either scumtell hard or spew partners. (Or be spewed via a flip)

also im biased cause they correctly outlined my thought process uwu

I agree with not eliminating him today.

[clidd]

I'm here

[clidd]

Do you know which timeline would be funnier? one in which I don't pay attention to what I would do as scum based on information from the game spent in common with Volxen, end up describing an incorrect line of action of scum!clidd vs town!volxen and pretend that everything was planned according to my strategic scumhunting abilities.

[clidd]

But hopefully, we are in a reality where everything is flowing as I expected and my reads on the slots are going well.

[clidd]

Yeah, I already know where are you coming from.

I need to think about a few things on your slot, because your explanation was good and I need to see if I can connect this to the positive impressions I had of you earlier.

[clidd]

I mean, If you're town, it will be hell for you to read me.

But if you're scum, this is the perfect window to have a valid reason to suspect me. If I exclude the last scenario, I can be more comfortable dealing with the first one later.

[clidd]

It seems to me that you are coming from the conclusion "clidd is scum" and how my actions would fit into this scenario. Idk why I think this is towny coming from you.

But I don't think you'll be able to read me while talking to me about this thing. You may need to watch how I play and decide whether your initial impression is valid or not.

[clidd]

Actually, the last part is incorrect.

The right is "whether your read on me will follow a scumread or not"

[clidd]

Dk, what do you think about Ahsoka rn?

[clidd]

Gimli is probably my top tr atm.

[clidd]

Dk didn't mean to be rude.

See you tomorrow.

[clidd]

I agree on Gimli being town, but for different reasons.

And DK still seems null to me, nothing has hit me as strongly ai from them.

[clidd]

Don't you think it is inconsistent for scum!Radja to not follow a vote in his elimination pool and sound dissonant by voting you?

[clidd]

I imagine that scum!he would look at the elimination pool and think "man, I need to vote for someone I mentioned in the pool that I want to eliminate" or "I'm going to add Ahsoka to my elimination pool so people won't question the consistency of my vote. ''

[clidd]

Or even ''well, I don't think it'll be good to say that I want to eliminate x and vote on b''.

[clidd]

It's ok, i think. But what is crossfaded ?

[clidd]

Don't you think it is inconsistent for scum!Radja to not follow a vote in his elimination pool and sound dissonant by voting you?

I read it more genuine than that. Makes sense to want to sort someone null that has some traction right now?

I mean more in the sense that this would be a line that I think Scum!Radja would try to avoid.

[clidd]

Don't you think it is inconsistent for scum!Radja to not follow a vote in his elimination pool and sound dissonant by voting you?

I read it more genuine than that. Makes sense to want to sort someone null that has some traction right now?

this and the fact that 2 people I'm townreading were voting there at the time.

clidd seems to be the first one picking up on me voting outside of my execution pool. More town points for you.

The quality of my read on you depends on whether you are more dissonant as town or scum. I'm currently considering town, because as scum you would review your reads before posting and reflect on how other people would see your content.

I'm hoping to be right about that, but I don't think it would hurt me to find out that I'm wrong. Let's see

[clidd]

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

Dk, I think it's time for you to towntell in your next posts.

[clidd]

I agree on Gimli being town, but for different reasons.

And DK still seems null to me, nothing has hit me as strongly ai from them.

can you go over why you think I'm town? It might help the way I'm reading you now.

I believe that of all the slots, you are the person who reflects me most as someone who is coming from an uninformed perspective on the alignments. The way you evaluate, reassess and comment do not seem to be planned and you also maintain a natural flow of reads that I sympathize with.

As an extension, post 197, in particular, has a very bizarre air that I don't see scum!you trying to speculate on a possible reality where the points you were townreading about me could be coming from my scumgame. It looked like you were giving yourself a warning to not lock-read something that you unconscious thinks that is wrong, where I think that the bias of scum!you would approach this topic in a different way (I had a bit of a hard time conveying exactly what I was thinking in English, so if it doesn't seem understandable let me know).

I can give other examples if you want, but in other words you are doing internal and external scumhunting that don't seem fake.

[clidd]

I need horsewoman to expand more on what she thinks about the game so that I can capture a more substantial read. I found it interesting about what he commented on DK and Gimli, in a positive sense, but I had doubts about her vote on radja. I can see scum!hw boarding this wagon in the context where the radja slot is at the moment (assuming he is town).

I don't think that's the case, but if my impression of radja is wrong and he is scum, I believe that the second vote could be a buss, actually, even the first is possible, keeping in mind that Radja theoretically got more scummy over time. But this scenario is meh, I'm giving it less than a 30% chance.

[clidd]

I imagine Ahsoka's thoughts must connect with mine spiritually at some point if she is town.

A possible reason for the approaches she is using here crossed my mind, but I believe it will hinder my read on her more than help if I am speculating about it, so I will let her play her game and see if I get a definite impression.

[clidd]

But without that, if I had to guess rn, I would lean scum on Ahsoka.

[clidd]

I think one of the reasons that is making me confused is that she doesn't seem to be trying to control the flow and take proactive action on the wagons, which is something I imagine scum!Ahsoka would be more vocal about.

[clidd]

She is floating around the edges, commenting on some things but being flexible about the impressions. She may be checking the terrain and playing a slower game (scum) or adopting a slow pace in collecting information and reactions, in order to approach post-flip associations (town). Perhaps a mixture of that.

[clidd]

But as I said, this is her game, her style, and I might understand better if I let her play.

[clidd]

My most confident reads at the moment are Gimli, Raya and Volxen as towns in order of intensity.

My PoE can change depending on my conclusion about DK and Ahsoka.

[clidd]

Gimli, I don't think you're scum and if you feel like that about me you should probably vote me.

As long as you keep evaluating me, I don't see a problem, as I said to Raya.

[clidd]

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

Dk, I think it's time for you to towntell in your next posts.

whats "towntelling"

To do some post in which I can see that you're town.

[clidd]

If you half-towntell, well, that's already something.

But If you can't do either, then you're scum. Which would be disappointing, since we still don't have a town win together.

[clidd]

Radja, if possible, I would like you to take the time to interact in real time. I am interested in seeing how your opinions are expressed in short periods of time.

As a starting point, I wanted you to talk a bit about your impression of Raya (251) and what did you like about her post.

[clidd]

I don't think you slip as scum and everything you have done so far is ''I'm here''.

I enjoy playing with you, but if I can't get my eye in a post in which my mind says ''damn, this is town!DK'', unfortunately, you are scum.

[clidd]

I don't think you slip as scum and everything you have done so far is ''I'm here''.

I enjoy playing with you, but if I can't get my eye in a post in which my mind says ''damn, this is town!DK'', unfortunately, you are scum.

This post was directed to DK.

[clidd]

Before I forget:

Gimli>
- Why do you think I should be townreading Ahsoka?
- Is Volxen null or scumlean to you?
- If scum!radja were real, don't you think that scum would buss Radja if he's acting scummy?

[clidd]

Radja, if possible, I would like you to take the time to interact in real time. I am interested in seeing how your opinions are expressed in short periods of time.

As a starting point, I wanted you to talk a bit about your impression of Raya (251) and what did you like about her post.

Hmm, let me read back on that a bit to provide some examples. I guess it was mostly a gut thing?
I try to be as transparent as possible and pretty much post whatever comes to mind as I catch up.

- saying DkKoba's "townslip" could be fabricated.
- I liked her push on you(clidd) because it doesn't seem like an easy path to me. To top that off, despite being unsure about you, Raya didn't back down to join an easy wagon when she could have easily done that.
- understanding what I was trying to do when I voted Ahsoka: sorting a null slot that my townreads were voting.

Some of those things happened after my reads list, so there's my read progression for you, in case you were interested.

I also found towny the way she approached my slot.

It reflected as genuine in the sense that she had reasons that, when I was trying to put myself in her place, made sense from a perspective of "I want to try to know your alignment", which is something that I also assimilated a little to the impression I had of Gimli. I don't think the fact that I was her scumpartner in our past game has any influence on that, because at no time did she create a parallel between the two games to justify the push in isolation (which is another positive thing imo).

Changing the subject, the fact of you voting someone null and not exactly someone in your execution pool is probably the point that I am most sympathizing with my tl on you. It seemed very genuine in the sense that you did not feel obliged to necessarily explain why you were not voting for the execution pool, as it was something that was already on your mind, and as I also unconsciously omit details sometimes that are part of the process of how I get to some conclusions (mostly as town), I believe that we have something in common (which is giving more emotional substance to my read on you).

You don't need to detail or make a wallpost, but I would be grateful if I could see what has changed in your reads after the last events.

[clidd]

I honestly haven't gotten a strong impression from him yet but if he's town then he is a very easy miselim target at the current gamestate and I agree that it's odd Clidd didn't come to this conclusion first considering the townread on him.

I don't know if it was possible to absorb this in my explanation, but the scenario of scum wanting to miselim him was something that came to my mind primarily. The buss scenario, which came as a secondary, was an alternative interpretation that I considered as more improbable by comparison, but not impossible.

[clidd]

I'll take a better look at things tomorrow.

[clidd]

Thanks for the replies to my 322, Gimli. Your opinions are super transparent and I appreciate that.

I believe that my towngame has been losing strength over time recently, while my scumgame has been getting stronger. I think that my reasoning as town is very abstract, sometimes contradictory and even disconnected with a plausible logical progression, because I try to genuinely convey what I am thinking and it does not always come in the proper order or it is not always represented in a organic way. As a scum, my posts are previously created in a way that is understandable to readers and less ambitious in my assumptions, as I try to follow a timeline to avoid inconsistencies about what I am dissimulating. Another point, as town, is that I like to assess who is suspecting me and I tend to have a townread on players who suspect me as long as I can see good faith in the reasons being used against me.

Example of reasoning scum!me:
viewtopic.php?p=11841373#p11841373

Example of reasoning town!me:
viewtopic.php?p=12395161#p12395161

Example with me townreading someone who is scumreading me (town!me)
viewtopic.php?p=12392993#p12392993

[clidd]

The dynamics between Ahsoka and DK improved my perception of Ahsoka and the impression she had on Lostego were in line with the impression I had.

Although I don't necessarily agree with the assumptions about the votes in which she was seeing, the way Ahsoka described her posts, even though she's FL (someone adept at manipulation), seemed sincere.

It is not really a towntell, but these are good townpings that I'm ok to materialize in a tl.

[clidd]

DK is very weak in this game and I'm leaning scum on them, unfortunately.

[clidd]

Lostego is making me rethink my read on Volxen, I need to go back and reevaluate what I was seeing on him.

[clidd]

DK is very weak in this game and I'm leaning scum on them, unfortunately.

weak how?

I didn't feel that you are performing in this game to find scum. Your observations and impressions are very weak for what I was expecting from town!you

Not in the sense of ''I want you to post more'', but in the sense that I don't see any substance in your reads that I can look at and say "this is definitely town!Dk".

I would probably have you as a lock-town if you had shown me a particle from the towntell that I mentioned earlier that I was expecting from you.

[clidd]

ur progression on volxen is "uwu null because im so paranoid" to "aha volxen towntold haha must be town"

please tell me what you were "seeing" when it was just a single post lmfao

I see a lot of personal things.

His posts reflected me a lot like town!He and I was hoping he would post more for me to strengthen this (he was my third in townread intensity, that is, weaker than raya and gimli).

The substitution is making me rethink this.

[clidd]

I think your entire ISO is scummy, sorry, lol.

I must say what I think.

I just don't know why I'm feeling bad about saying this. I feel that this game would be more fun if I played with you, but this is my emotional one talking.

My rationale is saying ''bro, this is scum''.

[clidd]

i think its not worth pushing volxen rn because they give me the impression of a player who thrives better when not pushed on. And if theyre scum they'll either scumtell hard or spew partners. (Or be spewed via a flip)

also im biased cause they correctly outlined my thought process uwu

this is funny. why are you saying this when raja is pushing clidd, and none of them are presenting a scumread on volxen, quite the contrary? who was pushing volxen to make this post sensible?

what do you think of clidd?

silence scum

I'll never understand why scum always wanna take the route of calling me "bad town"
Cool lmao pocket denied.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

ur obsession with me towntelling over scumhunting concerns me, esp since im already obvtown!

im obvtown

i have a tinfoil that clidd is a deepwolf. with 3 scum slots to fill he does fit into a 3rd scum player trying to play the "towny" scum role.

I think these are some of the posts that I think are scummy.

It is not quite rational, but something else that I am extracting by tone.

[clidd]

ur progression on volxen is "uwu null because im so paranoid" to "aha volxen towntold haha must be town"

please tell me what you were "seeing" when it was just a single post lmfao

I see a lot of personal things.

His posts reflected me a lot like town!He and I was hoping he would post more for me to strengthen this (he was my third in townread intensity, that is, weaker than raya and gimli).

The substitution is making me rethink this.

except it seems more like you just want to discredit them because they came in strong

I guess I'll reveal it now since my actions/words have already slipped it:

i faked a townlean on you early on to see how you'd react. now i see that your read on me has progressed based on what the vibe was of my read on you. you avoided me when i was being buddy then when i was starting to express doubt you started to pivot. I notice these things.

You're not the only slot I've been watching carefully in this manner. Lets just say I plan to end the day is a good old CFD.............

It doesn't change what I'm feeling about you.

And the way you're saying you were evaluating me doesn't seem very genuine in my opinion.

I would feel better if you explain your actual reads.

[clidd]

and haha very funny u made a literal interpretation.

also i have reason to believe at least Two scum have posted so far in this game.

just came back to this

-> the lack of comments on this, makes me think that it is true >:)

That's another thing that I don't see as towny coming from you.

The fact that you disregard the temporal distance is also malicious.

If you can do what I said and talk about your reads, I can get a better read on you.

[clidd]

1.) NAI
2.) NAI
3.) NAI but also lowkey townspew at the start
4.) ego town MF(but NAI lol)\
5.) yeah i am .. but NAI
6.) now i actually wanna know what u think is scummy about this one. as scum im a lot more inclined to just call stuff scum/town, nothing like more fancy than that. something as very specific like this is like much more leantown. but i guess you wouldn't know that, but not knowing my scumplay you would assume its a towny sentiment no?

i can show you both scumgames and towngames where I say similar stuff to those things.

i just was curious what your shortlist of most "obvious" examples might be.

Ok.

[clidd]

What are you saying..

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Ahsoka

I'll take a break.

You are acting super selfishly if you are not scum, honestly. I think you know why I'm pushing you and I've seen how strong you are as town (I already mentioned that), so that you interpret that I would push you as a mislim as scum doesn't make sense.

[clidd]

Dk, on an ethical level of play, would you act unresolvable energetically and self-assertively, not allowing the question of the AI ​​character of your slot as scum?

Asking in the hypothetical sphere, of course.

[clidd]

Dk is messing with my head in a very similar way to Ahsoka earlier. I hate it when people play with my perception. Maybe that's the thing that Raya and Gimli are feeling about me.

[clidd]

Actually, "play" isn't the right word, but whatever.

[clidd]

Gimli is really close to a lock-town in my reads, why is he on your solve, NM/Dk?

[clidd]

Ah, fuck it. I'll just let DK play their game and see if I can read them.

[clidd]

Dk, why isn't you questioning this?

Did I miss something?

[clidd]

485 is in relation to the read on gimli ^

[clidd]

Actually, forget about 485 and 486.

I just need to know 483.

[clidd]

I honestly haven't gotten a strong impression from him yet but if he's town then he is a very easy miselim target at the current gamestate and I agree that it's odd Clidd didn't come to this conclusion first considering the townread on him.

I don't know if it was possible to absorb this in my explanation, but the scenario of scum wanting to miselim him was something that came to my mind primarily. The buss scenario, which came as a secondary, was an alternative interpretation that I considered as more improbable by comparison,
but not impossible.

I think this deserves to be quoted.

I don't think that's the case, but if my impression of radja is wrong and he is scum, I believe that the second vote could be a buss, actually, even the first is possible, keeping in mind that Radja theoretically got more scummy over time. But this scenario is meh, I'm giving it less than a 30% chance.

when you say less than 30%, is that less than 30% of the times when radja is scum, or less than 30% in general?

also you could be right about this. The way I'm looking at the game, you're either scum or you've townread scum with very slim reasoning, to the point of e.g. the volxen/you relationship in thread looking like you were either TMI townreading town volxen or townreading a scum partner. The same kind of applies to radja, who I'm probably null on at this point, and there's like 4 people acting like they know what's up when he did nothing to justify it either way. if I'm right and ahsoka, raya and horsewoman are all town, then I think it's possible scum is happily bussing and letting you eat rope for it afterwards. also I just noticed I'm only now starting to consider seriously that lostego could be scum and you could be town and not scum with him. the same sort of situation applies to most people in the POE, it's really amazing how weak your relationships with my POE are. but man if you're town I wanna be able to sort this out cause you're showing your reasoning a lot and I'm supposed to.

sorry for the big post everyone, I'm off for the day

Going back to this.

Yes, it's 30% in general.

I can agree on Raya/Ahsoka being on town PoE, but horsewoman is a slot that you should probably revisit, it's not someone I'm very confident about.

The buss thesis is something I would like to discuss if the PoE is complete. I'm leaning town on radja for that emotional read that I mentioned. If you diverge from my impression, I would appreciate a help.

[clidd]

He saw what Ahsoka said and assimilated the internal impression he was having there (I think).

I also felt the same thing.

Although the time it occurred was grossly sporadic, I don't think it is scummy.

Another point is that it would be very evident to scum!Gimli that changing his posture quickly like that would bring up a later question about the behavior, something he would probably be more cautious about.

I imagine scum!He would look at Ahsuka's posts, comment on them (probably agreeing) and say that he would take a look later to see if he really was going to change his mind. It would be more organic from his perspective to create this contextual delay between the change of opinion. The jump of pov over the slot that occurred is not a move that makes sense to scum!him.

[clidd]

Ok, fair enough.

[clidd]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[clidd]

Why not mention the first scenario of a miselim?

Raya, I don't remember if I addressed this directly in my posts, but it was the dominant impression I had in mind. I expressed this indirectly in post 304 when I speculated a scum!hw angle.

[clidd]

Radja, is there any changes on your vote/read after the last set of Ahsoka's posts?

[clidd]

[clidd]

So you do agree that Gimli is town too.

Good to hear. Not perfect because I'm not sure about you and Radja is a tl that I'm evaluating yet.

pedit: Scum!nm and Scum!Dk grouping in this way is something very fanciful in my opinion.

pedit²: Hallo Dk.

[clidd]

I had 4 and I'm almost dying (figuratively).

[clidd]

I'll take a look soon on volxen/lostego, don't worry.

[clidd]

Hum.

Well, I have a problem. I did a reread on my impression on Volxen three times, reevaluated it, and I keep coming to the conclusion that he is more towny than null or scum. But this is not matching my impression of Lostego.

[clidd]

And I find it very difficult for Gimli to be scum, because I really liked the descriptions he attributed to the posts he engaged with me and reflected me very genuinely as he is trying to evaluate me.

If you're seeing him as scum, Dk, you have to slap me in the face (metaphorically) and show me why he's scum to you.

[clidd]

And I find it very difficult for Gimli to be scum, because I really liked the descriptions he attributed to the posts he engaged with me and reflected me very genuinely as he is trying to evaluate me.

If you're seeing him as scum, Dk, you have to slap me in the face (metaphorically) and show me why he's scum to you.

he's either going to dodge the elephant in the room, or he's going to scumslip. its my prediction.

consider: if you're town then he's able to case you accurately and genuinely because well, you ARE town. it's something that exists. (even though uh well. we'll see once gimli decides to pop his head out of the scum PT)

I'm thinking about how to answer that, because it's true in theory, you're right, scum can townread town genuinely because town is town. But .. I think that is not the case here. I don't know, I liked the way he approached the topic of town!me vs scum!me, his opinions seem to me to come from an uninformed perspective and he is constantly evaluating.

In fact, I think there is a certain cognitive load when a person is scum, something that influences the way they structure reads. I'm assuming that I would be able to detect some of those traits in his speeches if scum!gimli was positioning himself to have a townread on me.

And why pocket, if he can keep me in the null zone or push? unless scum!him saw that I'm weak to appeals, but even so, I would still be able to reassess if I was wrong.

I can give another look on all of his posts that make me feel like that, but I can't promise you that my opinion will change.

[clidd]

Apart from the post where you accused me of essentially being a cheater, liar and sex harasser for no reason

I don't think it's related to the game or AI, but Dk never called you these things and it is not healthy for either party to comment on this topic.

If you suspect DK, that's fine, that's understandable, but don't try to put words that didn't come out of their mouth.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Don't you think it is inconsistent for scum!Radja to not follow a vote in his elimination pool and sound dissonant by voting you?

I imagine that scum!he would look at the elimination pool and think "man, I need to vote for someone I mentioned in the pool that I want to eliminate" or "I'm going to add Ahsoka to my elimination pool so people won't question the consistency of my vote. ''

Or even ''well, I don't think it'll be good to say that I want to eliminate x and vote on b''.

Don't you think it is inconsistent for scum!Radja to not follow a vote in his elimination pool and sound dissonant by voting you?

I read it more genuine than that. Makes sense to want to sort someone null that has some traction right now?

I mean more in the sense that this would be a line that I think Scum!Radja would try to avoid.

Don't you think it is inconsistent for scum!Radja to not follow a vote in his elimination pool and sound dissonant by voting you?

I read it more genuine than that. Makes sense to want to sort someone null that has some traction right now?

this and the fact that 2 people I'm townreading were voting there at the time.

clidd seems to be the first one picking up on me voting outside of my execution pool. More town points for you.

The quality of my read on you depends on whether you are more dissonant as town or scum. I'm currently considering town, because as scum you would review your reads before posting and reflect on how other people would see your content.

I'm hoping to be right about that, but I don't think it would hurt me to find out that I'm wrong. Let's see

Radja, if possible, I would like you to take the time to interact in real time. I am interested in seeing how your opinions are expressed in short periods of time.

As a starting point, I wanted you to talk a bit about your impression of Raya (251) and what did you like about her post.

Hmm, let me read back on that a bit to provide some examples. I guess it was mostly a gut thing?
I try to be as transparent as possible and pretty much post whatever comes to mind as I catch up.

- saying DkKoba's "townslip" could be fabricated.
- I liked her push on you(clidd) because it doesn't seem like an easy path to me. To top that off, despite being unsure about you, Raya didn't back down to join an easy wagon when she could have easily done that.
- understanding what I was trying to do when I voted Ahsoka: sorting a null slot that my townreads were voting.

Some of those things happened after my reads list, so there's my read progression for you, in case you were interested.

I also found towny the way she approached my slot.

It reflected as genuine in the sense that she had reasons that, when I was trying to put myself in her place, made sense from a perspective of "I want to try to know your alignment", which is something that I also assimilated a little to the impression I had of Gimli. I don't think the fact that I was her scumpartner in our past game has any influence on that, because at no time did she create a parallel between the two games to justify the push in isolation (which is another positive thing imo).

Changing the subject, the fact of you voting someone null and not exactly someone in your execution pool is probably the point that I am most sympathizing with my tl on you. It seemed very genuine in the sense that you did not feel obliged to necessarily explain why you were not voting for the execution pool, as it was something that was already on your mind, and as I also unconsciously omit details sometimes that are part of the process of how I get to some conclusions (mostly as town), I believe that we have something in common (which is giving more emotional substance to my read on you).

You don't need to detail or make a wallpost, but I would be grateful if I could see what has changed in your reads after the last events.

I honestly haven't gotten a strong impression from him yet but if he's town then he is a very easy miselim target at the current gamestate and I agree that it's odd Clidd didn't come to this conclusion first considering the townread on him.

I don't know if it was possible to absorb this in my explanation, but the scenario of scum wanting to miselim him was something that came to my mind primarily. The buss scenario, which came as a secondary, was an alternative interpretation that I considered as more improbable by comparison, but not impossible.

These are the things of my read on Radja ^

[clidd]

I don't know if you're losing your mind or making me almost losing my mind with your slot.

Gimli, can you just answer them? I agree that you can answer if you just explain what you were thinking. It doesn't have to be a dissertation, just the main points.

[clidd]

Ok.

Finally.

[clidd]

I will be disappointed if this change in mood has been simulated, Dk.

[clidd]

Ok, I'm back. Gimli stills town after a reread.

And Dk, I believe that the premise that they suggested about their meta to allow a good part of their posts in this game to be nai and not subject to scumread is plausible, which would make the slot null. But this does not include the fact that using the townhunting method, it is valid for anyone to put the Dk slot placed in the scum zone if other slots have shown more towny features than Dk demonstrated. It seems that Dk is implying that if Gimli's PoE points them out as scum, Gimli must provide reasons for them to be scum, although Dk does not provide reasons to be town, which also suggests that one of Gimli's town reads would have to be wrong. Particularly, I regard Dk's angry expression as true during the discussion with Gimli, but this is something I can imagine occurring regardless of alignment, because scum!Dk can also be uncomfortable if things don't go the way they want. But, I still have doubts if this whole line of hyper aggressive action would bring any benefit to Scum!Dk, because although it creates a hostile atmosphere that repels pushs against them, it is not persuasive for them to win anyone's trust, much less be interpreted as towny. I would probably only close my eyes and cast a vote without opening a channel of communication if I was convinced that the slot is one hundred percent scum, but selfishness, aggression, self-assertion, neglect and stubbornness are very difficult for them to project from a scum mentality, unless they want to be eliminated, which I imagine is inconsistent with Dk's internal desire to stay alive and fight to avoid eliminations in their slot.



In other words, Dk reflects me as anti-town, but not necessarily scum.

[clidd]

Idk if it is "channel of comunication" or "comunication channel" the right one in english. Both make sense to me.

[clidd]

It's been a bit since I've played with Koba but this honestly just feels like how Koba usually posts. I could be wrong here but these posts look like normal NAI Koba posts.

Yes, you are right. I feel that I didn't have a strong reason outside of my personal interpretation to accuse Dk. Those last few pages have been a headache to read in ai terms and I'm trying to distance myself from a bit emotionally so it won't disturb my interpretation of them, otherwise I might get irritated and create bias about the slot.

[clidd]

For me it's just that from everything I've seen so far you show the best chances at having a hidden agenda. There's been several times that I or others have pointed out a potential agenda in your posts and I'm having a hard time seeing past that. There were some posts I've liked though like ending the 1v1 with Koba and moving on to someone else.

I said more in the sense that you have to force your mind to constantly evaluate me, as I think that you're town in good faith. I don't have a hidden agenda, but I understand that if this was something interpreted about me by more than one person, it was probably something wrong that I transmitted unintentionally (and that I hope to be able to correct). At least I transmitted some positive ai particles to you with that earlier interaction with Koba (that I don't think would have a good outcome if extended).

[clidd]

Didn't you just vote Ahsoka? But you agree with them being town?

I don't remember if I got to share my thoughts, but that was a conclusion I had before in post 446, but I just removed the vote later.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

I imagine Ahsoka's thoughts must connect with mine spiritually at some point if she is town.

A possible reason for the approaches she is using here crossed my mind, but I believe it will hinder my read on her more than help if I am speculating about it, so I will let her play her game and see if I get a definite impression.

But without that, if I had to guess rn, I would lean scum on Ahsoka.

I think one of the reasons that is making me confused is that she doesn't seem to be trying to control the flow and take proactive action on the wagons, which is something I imagine scum!Ahsoka would be more vocal about.

She is floating around the edges, commenting on some things but being flexible about the impressions. She may be checking the terrain and playing a slower game (scum) or adopting a slow pace in collecting information and reactions, in order to approach post-flip associations (town). Perhaps a mixture of that.

But as I said, this is her game, her style, and I might understand better if I let her play.

These are the things I was thinking on my read of Ahsoka before the tl ^

[clidd]

I don't think Horsewoman has done anything outstanding that I can associate with town. This is the read that I have the most difficulty accepting. I'm probably missing something, what is it?

[clidd]

I will be disappointed if this change in mood has been simulated, Dk.

read list

now.

Right now, it's something like that:

Gimli | Raya36

-

Lostego | Ahsoka

-

Radja | Dk

-

Horsewoman
Not_Mafia

In order of intensity. Side-by-side names indicate similar intensity, not connection between slots. Lostego is high because of Volxen. Ahsoka demonstrated some positive things, she is there because I am able to understand more what she is doing. Radja and Dk presented strange things, but I sympathize with both slots at some specific point, so I don't think about eliminating them yet. Horsewoman and N_M did not reflect me positively or negatively, so they are close to the scum zone by PoE.

pedit: No, I don't think she's scummy, but she isn't towny to me so.. Yeah, this is the problem.

pedit²: Don't worry, I have also been the protagonist of worse discussion episodes in the past. I think the discussion helped me to understand DK more, so let's move on.

[clidd]

I would like to see more takes from Radja, Lostego, Ahsoka and Horsewoman. My PoE is pretty crazy at the moment and I may be having good impressions from slots that are scum, so it's important to see more stuff before I try to formalize.

My vote right now would be on N_M, but it's a meh wagon to push.

[clidd]

I know, but it's a meh push.

From what I know, N_M isn't going to explain much regardless of his alignment. I wanted to press more vocal slots, which could offer content.

pedit: Yeah, I think you think too that DK is more likely anti-town than scum.

[clidd]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

i was looking at your post (#490) and to me it seemed like conjecture. the game is still very young yet you are determining an [x+y=z state] in your mind when most of D1 i personally believe is spent asking questions or interacting with players so you may create that state in your head. im not sure if its how you just play however.

It's the way I play, although I try to be more normal nowadays, compared to the exaggerated playstyle before.

If you take a look at my old games as town:

viewtopic.php?p=11593154#p11593154

viewtopic.php?p=11712598#p11712598

viewtopic.php?p=11762333#p11762333

viewtopic.php?p=11700717#p11700717

viewtopic.php?p=11567291#p11567291

You can see that I used to create a chain of conjectures to reach conclusions.

[clidd]

My vote right now would be on N_M, but it's a meh wagon to push.

no i disagree, n_m has come through with assured reads and nothing to back them. i know this is kinda his thing but it doesn't excuse the behavior

VOTE: not_mafia

Bad vote

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Why is a bad vote?

[clidd]

I'll take a long break, back later.

[clidd]

I'm still not following why you voted Ahsoka there? Unless I'm horribly misinterpreting, you had a townread on Ahsoka almost immediately after the vote? I do get that you scumread them in the quoted posts in your next post but that was long before this vote and then just a few hours later you were suddenly townreading Ahsoka? Where's the progression?

This is a better line of posts:

Spoiler:

Ahsoka didn't townspew yet, which is strange.

Not a ping, but something I found interesting to mention. She probably knows what I'm talking about, although we can't discuss it at the moment.

I would

never

succumb to the dark side like my master before me.

Hey, I haven't forgotten about you.

When possible, I would like to see your takes on the game.



I feel a disturbance in the *force* and maybe it's coming from you.

Ahsoka, I was interested to see your thoughts on the active slots. It doesn't have to be detailed, it can be a summary.

I'm vibing with Volxen, he towntell already.

You're the next I want to sort.

VOTE: Ahsoka

I wanted DK before you, but knowing the nature of who you are, my priority has changed.

Dk, what do you think about Ahsoka rn?

I imagine Ahsoka's thoughts must connect with mine spiritually at some point if she is town.

A possible reason for the approaches she is using here crossed my mind, but I believe it will hinder my read on her more than help if I am speculating about it, so I will let her play her game and see if I get a definite impression.

But without that, if I had to guess rn, I would lean scum on Ahsoka.

I think one of the reasons that is making me confused is that she doesn't seem to be trying to control the flow and take proactive action on the wagons, which is something I imagine scum!Ahsoka would be more vocal about.

Before I forget:

Gimli>
- Why do you think I should be townreading Ahsoka?
- Is Volxen null or scumlean to you?
- If scum!radja were real, don't you think that scum would buss Radja if he's acting scummy?

Thanks for the replies to my 322, Gimli. Your opinions are super transparent and I appreciate that.

I believe that my towngame has been losing strength over time recently, while my scumgame has been getting stronger. I think that my reasoning as town is very abstract, sometimes contradictory and even disconnected with a plausible logical progression, because I try to genuinely convey what I am thinking and it does not always come in the proper order or it is not always represented in a organic way. As a scum, my posts are previously created in a way that is understandable to readers and less ambitious in my assumptions, as I try to follow a timeline to avoid inconsistencies about what I am dissimulating. Another point, as town, is that I like to assess who is suspecting me and I tend to have a townread on players who suspect me as long as I can see good faith in the reasons being used against me.

Example of reasoning scum!me:
viewtopic.php?p=11841373#p11841373

Example of reasoning town!me:
viewtopic.php?p=12395161#p12395161

Example with me townreading someone who is scumreading me (town!me)
viewtopic.php?p=12392993#p12392993

The dynamics between Ahsoka and DK improved my perception of Ahsoka and the impression she had on Lostego were in line with the impression I had.

Although I don't necessarily agree with the assumptions about the votes in which she was seeing, the way Ahsoka described her posts, even though she's FL (someone adept at manipulation), seemed sincere.

It is not really a towntell, but these are good townpings that I'm ok to materialize in a tl.

UNVOTE: Ahsoka

I'll take a break.

You are acting super selfishly if you are not scum, honestly. I think you know why I'm pushing you and I've seen how strong you are as town (I already mentioned that), so that you interpret that I would push you as a mislim as scum doesn't make sense.

I don't know if that answers your question, but I was asking in parallel to other people about Ahsoka and filtering information on other points of view, at the same time that I was expressing myself and evaluating her attitudes, in which I had an internal change of opinion about her alignment. There is a large time gap between the vote (211) and the formalization of the tl (446) that influenced the change in perspective. Although I didn't verbalize that, I would say it was a process that I didn't share as much as I could in the sense of what I was thinking. The late vote change was due to the distraction caused by the discussion with Dk, because only when I paused was when I remembered that I did not consider Ahsoka a potential scum as much as before, on the contrary, I thought she was towny. Not super strong, but decent enough for the lean margin.

Does that make sense to you?

[clidd]

Not liking the push on NM. Anyone who knows his play is well aware it won't go anywhere D1.

I agree, although he is in most of my PoE scenarios as scum.

[clidd]

I want to check this.

VOTE: Horsewoman

I need to feel something, positive or negative, by myself.

[clidd]

Horsewoman, has anything changed for you after the last few pages?

I want to see where your mind is by now.

[clidd]

hi im home from work and am willing to toss aside my previous reads into the trash.

i admit in my eagerness to find scum and use my methods I went and pushed myself too hard to the point of being stressed.

the only read im retaining atm is the clidd scumread. the very fact they sat there and let me tunnel onto gimli like that just doesnt sit right with me.

idk

im fucking lost.

i hate d1s.

It's ok, as long as you try to keep evaluating and reassessing your reads.

I really didn't want to interfere between the two of you back there. Arguing with you in that state seemed counterproductive.

If you want to discuss something with me, like Raya is doing, you have permission now, because I'm interpreting you as more likely town than not (actually, anti-town-town with two ''towns'' to emphasize that you are a kind of town acting anti-town, but you got the idea) based on the good faith of your change of mood during the 1v1, which I think would be quite toxic if you were scum reproducing that attitude. Maybe I'll change my mind at some point, I don't know, but for now it is what it is.

[clidd]

Koba's return/reset seems ok gonna UNVOTE: for now. Happy to talk about any players if you want, Koba.

@clidd re 644, that clears a lot up actually. I am interested in how those small town pings completely changed them from a scum lean to a town lean. To be more specific why did you say that you expect town!Ahsoka's thoughts to align with yours (also one of the reasons for the new townlean).

Not liking the push on NM. Anyone who knows his play is well aware it won't go anywhere D1.

I agree, although he is in most of my PoE scenarios as scum.

That for sure makes sense, but for any player other than NM. Unless NM does something amazing I'm happy to join you on them D2 but we both know nothing is going to come of that vote D1.

I can try to go into all details about the process of my read on him, in case you really want me to pass everything from my mind to the keyboard, but I don't know how long it will take.

Regarding what I said about me expecting his thoughts to align with mine, I believe that town!He should not interpret things too far from the angle that I cannot see, in the sense that if there is compatibility between my understanding of that he is seeing and his perception of the game, it is less likely that he is trying to conceal a narrative to reconcile with an intentional/malicious read, which is one of the reasons why I believe he is trying to solve the game in a non biased-scum way, at least until now.

This is my last reference to town!him, which is our past game together:

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83046&user_select%5B%5D=30197

But I believe that there are variations due to the fact that he's playing a character here, so I'm still keeping my eyes open.

[clidd]

Raya, It's more about what I expect from him based on experience/meta mixed in a bit with what I expect by default in my personal town/scumhunting process, which involves a set of rational and emotional factors.

I try to use every available resource in my mind to try to get a better read.

[clidd]

I think Dkkoba-Raya has some possibility. Raya's handling of the Kkoba slot is kind of weird.

- Ahsoka, I expected you to describe some hot take about the discussion. This was kind of vague.

- Something I'm interested in knowing is what you thought of Dk's mood swings, the way they approached Gimli and whether that would be more likely for town!Dk or scum!Dk in your experience. Take a look at my 616 too and say what you think.

[clidd]

Okay so now. Talking about the actual game. Raya36 is a player I didnt realize was in this game. However I like her willingness to ask questions that arent just empty, they GO somewhere. I think there is a lot of good analysis and reasoning. Town.

Clidd and aaasoka are slots that have attracted a lot of controversy and I need to read them more closely. None of their posts have struck me.

Kobas fight with gimli isnt really AI from me. I think koba has made a lot of drastjc tonal shifts this game, but what im not seeing is the REASON for those shifts. And as someone said earlier, koba started acting comically aggressive after it was pointed out that they were aggressive as town. Town would shift tone for genuine emotional or other reasons, not to look good. I also think that there are some scum actinh loudly and engaging in theatre because there are 3 scum to play with and a lot more to position/play creatively. Hiding isnt going to work.

Horsewoman, I didn't absorb much of this post. I would be more comfortable with a closer description of what you are thinking in real time.

[clidd]

Post 660 great post, really genuine and plausible explanation for thought and reasoning progression. Very greenposting.

I agree, although your feeling about it was a little exaggerated here.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

theres something im unfortunately noticing here and I'm gonna keep it to myself but its somethign I really was hoping wasn't true. using this post as a soft for me having this thought process at this point in time.



fwiw i think horsewoman and gimli are same alignment. either they're both scum or both town. if the list were to confirm one cant be scum, the other cant be either IMO.

I sorta have 2 universes I'm playing with rn in my head??
idk if i even want to out it so scum can play around it with the list.

like 2 separate PoEs, and I guess I did slip it in my last post but 1 includes HW/Gimli and one excludes them

also if im like completely fucking wrong about the former being same alignment, its HW who is the scum in the 2.

Dk, I'm having a hard time understanding and commenting on what you're thinking. Unless I can read your mind, I would need you to explain your process, if only in summary.

[clidd]

Thanks for 673, Gimli.

It was a mix of praise and behavioral analysis about me that I am, again, considering as sincere coming from you. I believe you had a good interpretation of the way I play and I hope to play with you again in the future.

[clidd]

My vote right now would be on N_M, but it's a meh wagon to push.

no i disagree, n_m has come through with assured reads and nothing to back them. i know this is kinda his thing but it doesn't excuse the behavior

VOTE: not_mafia

Lostego has defended radja before with the thinnest of reasons, saying that was a bad wagon because it was too consensus-y (which wasn't true). Interesting vote as he just explained before voting NM that NM's posts are patently NAI. so what lostego is suggesting here essentially is for us to policy elim NM. At no point there's a suggestion that NM is scum, nor the vote is designed to make him evaluate NM. This is furthering my scumread on the slot.

I do agree. The problem is that NM is probably in the PoE of most players as scum, considering he hasn't done anything so far, which I can see motivating both town!Lostego and scum!Lostego. I need to think about the slot better, as I still have Volxen in my head.

[clidd]

I probably won't comment on page 28. Is there anything you want me to answer, Dk/Gimli?

[clidd]

The next thing Im going to do is read clidd, lostego and aasoka and my opinions WILL be substantive and they will bw good your socks will be knocked off

Ok.

[clidd]

Relax, Gimli. She said she will provide reads, so we can wait and evaluate the content, and yes, Dk playstyle is just like that.

[clidd]

I'll take a break, back later.

[clidd]

I'm back, reading soon.

By the way, welcome Infinity, It's a hemorrhagic pleasure to have you here.

I didn’t look closely at what you typed, but from the format I imagine you must be a perceptive person. This is something I do value.

[clidd]

Gonna attempt to sort some of my unsorted players. Sorry for the long post.

Spoiler:

NM:
Not much to take from his posts. I do find the Radja fixation weird. I know typical NM won't explain any reads D1 so it's pretty tough to follow any progression but there appears to be none on this read. Also don't like the Radja/Gimli/Horse solve. I haven't sorted Radja yet but the other two appear town to me. NM is still null, leaning scum if anything (although this is in part due to PoE, not just the few concerns mentions).

Radja:
Not much here from Radja either. His 251 is alright, however vague. It was early in the game though. I don't really agree with his points on Koba being scummy just because I know Koba would do that as town, but the analysis still seems fine without maybe knowing Koba super well. I still think voting for someone in the idkpool was a good play. I feel like scum would be more conscious of their vote needing to make perfect sense. As well as this scum want to focus on a miselim, not sort their nulls. I wish more came of it though to back this up. It's difficult for me to analyze the post about me since it's just describing why he thought I was town but the reasons he posted made sense and were things I did in fact do. A couple of things there I could have easily done regardless of my alignment but he still makes a point of something that would be harder for me to have done as scum which shows a scumhunting attitude rather than just making up reads. Radja seems fine to me as a light townread. He hasn't done anything substantial but nothing pinged me as scummy either.

Lostego:
I don't remember having strong impression of volxen so I'll just focus on Lostego here. The first thing I noticed in his iso is his reads are very tonal based. "overly simulated", "condescending". Nothing wrong with this as early reads which is what they are. Just taking note of this in case it continues. Those are very easy reads for scum to make to avoid having to actually fake scumhunting and analysis. 399, what was the point in telling NM they can join the scumpool if they unvote radja by p16? If you genuinely think that NM and radja could be partners then why very clearly tell NM what to do to avoid your suspicions. I just don't see the purpose of posting that. I do like the sort of reanalysis being initiated in 407. It could be faked of course but it shows that there is thought going into his reads. I don't quite get the thought of radja being consensus? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention but I never got the impression he was consensus at any point? I do like the sudden reevaluation of radja thought instead of potentially just pushing for a miselim. The NM vote was bad and encouraging a wagon there was bad, I already explained why. I am assuming lostego is familiar with NM. I really like what he said about gimli and horsewomen in his most recent post. I don't completely agree as I explained already but it does show a deeper level of analysis which is especially better than what I was concerned with in his early iso. Overall I'm not super happy with Lostego's iso. It's not bad enough to call him scum but he's certainly not in my town/townlean pools.

Ahsoka:
Their first few posts were all mechanics or fluff which is NAI to me. 147 is a good take but not AI. I thought at first they might have been a bit overdefensive about not having reads but it seems to be more just their normal tone/playstyle so I no longer think this is the case. In the clidd/Ahsoka interaction I found myself taking Ahsoka's side my first read through which you can see a bit of in my discussion with clidd around then. If this hypothetically was a TvS situation I believe Ahsoka would be the town. I also agree with the points made against clidd during that interaction. The concern of horsewoman pocketing seemed town to me as it shows a natural suspicion town should have when being praised etc. This could just be how horsewoman expresses their points though as I just felt the same way from her in my last catchup. (Kind of unrelated to Ahsoka but seeing that just made me realize that). 366 was a good take as well. More good-play-indicative than town-indicative though. I'm having a hard time reading the bulk of the Koba/Ahsoka interaction. I may come back to it another time. I'm interested to hear more of the Koba/me pairing they mentioned recently. Ahsoka gets a town read.

New list: (all in order of strength)
Town: Gimli, Ahsoka
Townlean: Horse, Radja
Null: NM, Koba
Scumlean: Lostego
Scum: Clidd

Moving here for a bit
VOTE: Lostego

NM is hardly going to leave the null zone unless he does something, I agree. I'm considering resolving it by PoE, depending on the conclusions I have about other players.

Radja seems to be someone who can potentially make mistakes in both alignments, but as I mentioned in post 301, it also depends on whether he shows more dissonance as town or scum. My read on him is a mixture of interpretation of emotional + rational behavior, but outside that angle, I couldn't find any more reasons to expand what I think. He lacks more engagement with the game.

Hum, I need to do an ISO analysis of Lostego before commenting on what I think about your points. This is something I would have been able to do if I didn't have some problems in my energy levels recently. I hope to be able to do it by tomorrow.

Your impressions of Ahsoka are decent, although the presumption of a possible tvs scenario between me and Ahsoka having scum!me vs town!Ahsoka does not strike me as impartial in the third person evaluative sense, but if I consider that I am one of you bigger suspects, it’s normal for bias to point to a scenario that makes more sense with me being scum to you.

[clidd]

clidd i want you to try and refrain from just posting games that im not gonna read as a means of comparison. i want to compare what you're doing now, and the last time we talked you said you lead with conjecture to reach conclusions. this is fine, but the problem that remains is where your conclusions are leading you and what purpose you have behind them. i cannot figure this out right now and its becoming a minor issue, so try and condense all your speculation into one post that affirms to me that youre actually thinking about the events you perceive instead of just writing tall stories.

let koba slank for a bit. i dont want to be shut down on n_m because he will eventually need to be sorted and there are no PRs to do this.

I didn't quite understand what you want me to do, but I'll try to make my process more transparent for you to understand.

Although my playstyle remains a weaker version of what I showed you and I don't think it will change.

[clidd]

I was trying to understand if there was something AI in the secluded form that Dk started approaching Ahsoka when they discovered her identity, but I imagine it must be just respect, regardless of alignment.

[clidd]

I don't post exactly everything I'm thinking about, but I confess that many things I post can be seen as difficult to come from a normal town perspective.

In this context, abnormal = scummy.

But I believe that Dk has contextualized other reasons to suspect me, such as my apathy during their discussion with Gimli.

[clidd]

Hullo! not much to catch up today so let's just get on with it.

Relax, Gimli. She said she will provide reads, so we can wait and evaluate the content, and yes, Dk playstyle is just like that.

Just so we're clear, my current scumread on horsewoman is based off my interpretation of #665 and not because I think horsewoman won't post her reads eventually. I don't like that she felt the need to promise work instead of doing it, but that's minimal in comparison with her thoughts on koba and, now that you and raya mentioned it, I also find her thoughts on raya in this and 666 to be quite troublesome. The townlean is fine of course, but the strength of it seems off somehow and in many directions.

Speaking of which, I'll post a theory I have but it's not worth to talk about it further because it's an associative read that's more likely wrong than not, but I think dkkoba and horsewoman have a decent chance of being scum together. koba's push on me for my horsewoman read might be the single most surprising behaviour they took this game, and once they decided to pivot from their tunnel koba said me and horsewoman have to have the same alignment. I thought this was very interesting given my more or less universal townread status, as it could be a play designed to help horsewoman go deep by hard associating her with me as her guarantor if you will. I've seen no actual reasoning to why I must have the same alignment as horsewoman instead of e.g. just being wrong about her being town, so I'm very suspicious about this line of reasoning.

Fair enough.

The only point that I think you may be exaggerating is that of Dk + Hw, as I do not find the reasons you mentioned so suggestive to point to a scum partnership between the two. Regarding what Dk said about you + Hw, I agree that it doesn't make much sense, but this is just one of the scenarios they commented on, so I don't think it should be taken so seriously.

[clidd]

clidd is maybe a deepwolf if radja is scum since his reason to TR radja was not good imo, but his posting flows so naturally and his feelings about the game are so detailed that I think he's out of most people's scumranges

koba is town, their push on clidd and then taking a step back and re-evaluating felt really genuine

n_m is town cause I agree with their reads lmao

raya is I think a better pick for a radja scumbuddy as I think her play is more easily faked than clidd's at least, and she also had a bad reason to townlean radja. Also wasn't really a fan of the push on koba. I need to look at this slot more though, I remember her early posting being towny

radja hasn't done a single solvy thing all game

If ahsoka is flavor then I think he's town here because he's not trying to look town/take control of the game but not sure

Literally whenever gimli posts a read it feels like he's glossing over it a bit. It feels like he isn't giving his own reads the time they need to be properly articulated, which is super scummy.

Lostego slot has felt town to me but should probably look at this slot again as well

PEdit: cool

That is a good initial impression about me. You had to look specifically for one of the posts I commented on Radja to get the information from my read about it, something that I imagine you must have seen in my ISO and is generally a positive sign of interest in evaluating me.

I agree about Dk.

Nm is a special case, so I don't think our reads are going to be compatible at the moment.

Spicy, but at the same time, I have a hard time seeing scum!Raya in this game. I would advise you to take a look at her interactions with me, as they seemed genuine in the sense that she maintained a good posture to analyze me in good faith. But, if you didn't get to that part yet, I imagine that this interpretation is, in isolation, from your knowledge of the events around Radja, so I don't think it's bad faith on your part.

I think he tried, but it has not yet had significant success.

This was exactly one of the elements of my read about her, which is based on FL, but I'm still not a hundred percent sure because it is an account with an alternative playstyle.

I really don't like this impression and would like you to expand.

This one I don't have enough information to comment on yet.

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Infinity 324

I'll take a long break and be back later.

I still don't have my normal energy levels, but I did a quick read of the rest of the Infinity posts and I am convinced that he is a slot that I have no interest in eliminating today.

[clidd]

@clidd I had already read the game before replacing in. But I'm doing some ISOs now to solidify some of my reads. I'm definitely looking at raya and I see what you're saying about her early push on you being towny.

Well, now it makes more sense to me. I don't think I paid much attention to this detail.

[clidd]

Hello it will take me some time to catch up but I will try my best. For now, I need to sleep. 2:00 is not a healthy time to be awake.

Huum, welcome.

I do hope you can keep up with the pace. My read in your predecessor has extended for a long time, so I need to refresh my ideas.

[clidd]

Hullo! welcome all new people to this game.

I've done a re-read of the first 13 pages and my current horsewoman scumread is really bad. I forgot how towny her posts were. Also been reevaluating on koba, and I feel part of why I was scumreading horsewoman has to do with conditional reads that don't make sense for me to even make without a flip.

I agree the radja slot is scum but I also think we need to extend d1 in order to allow for the replacement to catch up.

Which post in particular reflected you as more towny from Horsewoman?

It is good to hear that you are open to reevaluations, but it would be interesting for the game that you do not go into conflict with Dk again.

[clidd]

I think that outside of my empathic/emotional/behavioral/things-that-clidd-does read, Radja has a good chance of fitting into the list of apathetic scum.

But this is a generic assessment. I would prefer to have some concrete evidence of the slot alignment and I hope Amélie can deliver this.

[clidd]

And you have become increasingly more transparent Gimli. I would feel betrayed at the level of ''order 66'' if I was wrong about you being town, because you are at the top of my impressions.

[clidd]

I haven't evaluated her replacement yet, and I'll first finish reading the entire game when I have the time. A note on the replacement though, is that since infinity was reading the game before replacing in, there's probably nothing in a towny looking post of his that can't be attributed to pre-rand towny thoughts he had while ignorant on alignments. even if I think he is towny (not sure yet) I'll take the whole thing with a grain of salt.

I've tried to do this in the past, to give me an advantage if I was scum, but it didn't work so well in the long run, because it's not possible to hide 100% of the bias about you already knowing the alignments. In the case of Infinity, I imagine that as he is describing and expanding his impressions, the more unlikely the scenario for him to have prepared himself pre-game, as this would imply a significantly long period of effort and time that I do not find practical unless Infinity has a history of doing this or the current game has some high value to him.

[clidd]

Ahsoka, I know you probably don't like to read my posts, but do you think the ''Dk vs Gimli'' thing says something AI about Dk?

[clidd]

Basically Dk entered the offensive/defensive hybrid mode which I imagine they can enter in both alignments.

But, in that situation, they seemed irritated with Gimli and after a temporary pause of ''x'' hours, Dk reconsidered and switched their vote to me. The line of: vote on radja, vote on gimli, vote on me and finally vote on radja again is something that I have difficulty seeing as beneficial for scum!Dk.

They don't seem to be taking advantage of those instances if they are scum and I'm ''?'' about all of that.

My sleep quality has been mediocre for the past two days and I believe I understand how you may be feeling.

[clidd]

It lacks competence, in my opinion. But you've been scum with Dk in the past, so I imagine your perspective must be different from mine.

[clidd]

Yeah, we share the same feeling Infinity.

And I agree with you, Ahsoka, although I don't think Dk is a good consolidation to be eliminated today.

pedit: Well, we can all be wrong and Dk is playing 4d chess with AtE or we are right and they are just town using unorthodox methods.

I think I understand now what Ahsoka said about conflip earlier (50/50)

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Vote count 1.01

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-01-03 15:00:00).

execution

Not_Mafia [2]:

Not_Mafia, Raya36

RedFlavor [1]:

DkKoba

Not Voting [6]:

clidd, Horsewoman, Ahsoka, volxen, RedFlavor, Radja

game state

Doom Counter

is currently at

zero

.
~ With

3

Mafia alive, the Town will be endgamed once they are brought down to

3

members.

Previously published lists:
~ none

mod notes

~ everyone has confirmed!

WAIT THERES 3 MAFIA???

#townslip gang

Hol up so mafia cant kill?

This felt really fake and I am concerned with other people's reactions to it because none of them looked even slightly surprised.

raya if u pocket me rn i promise not to push u today

Consider yourself pocketed

This interaction also feels fake. I'm considering scum theatre as a possibility here.

Ok I bleieve your townslip

I hate this but it does feel more like a confused townie than scum theatre.

who you choose to be friends with says a lot abt u.

motivation for this game coincidentally just dropped 90%.

lowkey can i just policy ur slot lmfao

I'm not sure entirely what this is about but I find this particularly rude.

Maybe other people just read the set-ups they're playing

Interesting. I agree with Not Mafia here. In my last game with him, I couldn't remember a single thing he said that I agreed with.

Hullo! Hope you're all having a great christmas.

It turns out that DKkoba's theory was wrong and redflavor's opened came from town. I liked the theory, I think it's towny that dk thought this long and hard about it, and part of me was just curious enough to know so I decided to replace in when the chance appeared.

This feels show-y. I took a brief glance at the game before I replaced in and was also curious what alignment Radja was but I wasn't planning to say it. This can go in my null for now.

I had a hard scumread on DK in our first game together, but after a while I learned that he plays

like that

in both alignments. Nothing he said in this game, so far, is ai in my opinion.

Please pay attention to pronouns.
What do you mean by "they play like that in both alignments"?
Specifically, what is "that"

Many of Gimli's reads in relation to DK seem like things that I could manufacture as scum to push someone, but I still believe that there is a scenario where he is not used to DK and, by default, interpreted his entire line of action as too weird to be town. I'm waiting to see which way my impression on him will go.

I agree with Gimli on Dkkoba.

last post of the day is a retraction of that ahsoka townlean after much consideration.

in fact I think her entrances in the thread are very bad with the flow of everything and point to scum.

will develop on this read tomorrow.

VOTE: ahsoka

I dislike the timing of this. It is right after clidd says Ashoka isn't obvtowning.

Reads look like this right now:

Town: Redflavor, Not Mafia
Null: Clidd, Gimli
Scum: Dkkoba, Raya36

Gimli and Ashoka's avatars are very similar and I apologize in advance if I start mixing them up.

DK is the type of person who is easily misunderstood if you don't like their post flow, and is a very sensitive slot in terms of what can be considered AI or not. I would say that none of their posts so far have given me the impression of "this is town!DK" or "this is scum!DK", which is why I am warning you (assuming you are town, of course ) to keep an open mind towards them.

What is ai for them then?

gimli basically is approaching my slot in the worst faith possible, and anyone who is skeptical of me = towny.

thats how u can sum up their reading process.

this isnt how town approaches reads.
this is how scum discredits.


as soon as clidd pointed out that this is NAI for me > pivoted off.

this implies clidd is not aligned with gimli(like 50% sure, but gun to head would bet on not teammates rn)

clidd, as someone who plays at tables with myself in every game I play, I know that that is exactly what scum does in relation to my slot very often when they do not know me. Those that know me will more often attempt to pocket me as that's my weakness, or something in between if they're especially smart(pooky from coalition a few months ago comes to mind).

im a bit of a self aware player. I know what's scummy. I know whats towny. I know whats NAI. If you think you have caught me being scummy it better be because my reads are horseshit, not some NAI garbage like a townslip. Can I fake them? Yeah. But the reason I do is because i genuinely make them regularly as town(and sometimes i fake them as town too). Basically, even if I were scum here, I would have posted nearly the same exact thing. But it could have been slightly different depending on partners. If you really care about sorting me i have games where I show that lines like this are NAI, just read my history lmfao. I won't ever push meta that says im outside my scumrange, but I will push meta that what you're pushing is fully NAI.


anyways self meta over -

gimli have you considered its RVS and that people who know eachother and have played with eachother are liklier to have implicit bias towards eachother? I tend to push people early who annoy me or who i dislike. It's easier and more natural for me. I don't tunnel them forever unless I genuinely scumread them. This is probably also true of raya wrt the lighter tone towards me - we've played together and i've played in a game she's modded. We're chill and don't wanna go at eachothers throats like that.

I will say the ashoka vote isn't bad, that entrance is pretty flimsy. I'd rather figure out if this is just playstyle > scum being unsure and playing aloof. but lets play with it VOTE: ashoka

You say Gimli is approaching in terrible faith but then vote the person Gimli is voting. Why is that?
If I remembered correctly, Gimli is the one with the entrance I found show-y and Ashoka is the one that I can't remember anything about but both have similar avatars.

Radja is obvscum

I would like an explanation on this.

It reflects me as malicious, but not explicitly. It is a personal feeling.

I already made some posts of mech stuff (as scum) and even though it should be seen naturally as nai, I noticed that some players seemed to trust me more.

Here: viewtopic.php?p=11811488#p11811488

Not saying it is scummy, but in the context of Volxen, who is a very competent player as scum, it gave me a shiver.

I remember other example too about I correctly scumreading scum with the same feeling, but I need to take a look to see if I can find the game.

I have never seen someone make a mech post likely due to me not playing any complicated games like this one but I don't see how it would make anyone look more towny.

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

This is really a stretch. My scumread here stands.

I don't know Volxen but I'll keep this in mind. That was a long explanation to say that's not who you'd push as scum. Self-meta like that isn't something I read into much. For all I know the reason you're potentially setting up a push on volxen instead of the other options you gave is because the other options include your partners.

Once again, what is this? I hate nearly every post she makes.

People play expecting town to have reads, but a townie shouldn't have strong reads at this point in the game. I will converse as I see fit, and these conversations will look good to look at in hindsight, which is why I converse.

I have given my thoughts on the stuff that stood out the most.

you're lockscum

I don't have a specific opinion on any one of Ashoka's posts but I definitely do not find them scummy.

I don't know Gimli, but I know you and Kkoba, so let's fight. Shall we?

I believe this push on me is fabricated. I believe there are town on my wagon currently, as I specifically do not think Gimli and Dkkoba are both scum voting me.

Clidd can be scum because they hard misrepped me right when momentum on me could have gone either way. They can be impatient town. Either way, this should end up amusing.

This I hate very much for how defensive it is. I am considering moving this down to scum read.

pedit: what

Off this alone, clidd is now my top townread.

oh hi flavor leaf

Who is that?

oh hi flavor leaf

ow about you let other people decide if that is a townslip? also fair to note DK was annoying my slot cause redflavor had like a small hint of being mechanically aware, and now they're looking like they don't know anything at all about the game they're playing. so how does dkkoba know there's a doomcounter and they don't know there's 3 mafia?

DK can correct me if I am wrong, but I interpreted their reasoning behind their early Red scumread as that, if Red rolled scum the doom counter would be fresher in his mind since it’s mentioned in the scum role PM, whereas the DC is not mentioned in the town role PM. I don’t think it’s a great reason to be scumreading your slot, but I believe that is where DK is coming from regarding the scumread of Red’s opener.

I don’t think it’s really far-fetched that town!DK could have been aware of the DC early on but glossed over the fact that there are three scum vs two scum. DK might have simply focused on the DC part of the setup information and overlooked the number of town vs scum if they were reading the setup primarily to learn about the DC mechanic.

The alternative explanation is that DK is scum and faked all of these “mistakes” by pretending to think that there were only two scum, and that scum could also nightkill. I don’t think this is as likely because DK’s progression that started with incorrect analysis (2 scum and nightkills) and ended with them realizing their mistakes seemed genuine to me.

Also, if you look back at the early interactions between Red and DK at the very beginning of the game (5, 6, 7), DK’s posts where they called Red’s opener scummy and said it was a somewhat serious vote came 2 minutes after Red’s “hardclaim DC” opener. Scum!DK couldn’t have possibly pre-planned that opener, unless they are scum with your slot. And if you are town and DK is scum, I don’t know that DK would be able to come up with that fake reasoning to scumread Red over his opener that quickly. Granted, DK only initially said that Red’s opener was scummy without explaining why, but they knew they would have to eventually explain why (and DK did as soon as Red replaced out), so I think that regardless of DK’s alignment they knew what the explanation of the scumread was going to be at the time that they called Red’s opener scummy. I think it’s more likely to be a genuine thought process coming from town!DK rather than a fake thought process coming from scum!DK, especially when the short time lapse is taken into account.

I'm going to have to ask you to explain exactly where you stand because this post is not faring well with my brain after an entire day of work.

volxen im feeling that vibe u fit into a very similar archaetype of player like I do

Volxen is a townread because Dkkoba posted this.

just so you won't think I'm picking on you, I just found all your posting to be scum indicative as I was catching up. I could be wrong of course.

There were a few instances where I had to get my glasses and make sure I was reading correctly but I disagree that all of it was bad.

VOTE: horsewoman come play

I townread this.

Radja is still obvscum

Dropped to scum read until I get an explanation for this.

So you don't have any strong read that you like to talk and that's ok because it's page 6 and I'm the villain for wanting to force something that theoretically you would not be able to deliver bc you're town and town don't have real reads early game. Is that it?

I don't like clidd twisting this to make it sound like he was being targeted. I never interpreted anything Ahsoka said as calling him a villain or even sussing him.
I'm going to move over here VOTE: clidd

pedit: I feel like a villain by the tone you approached the subject, but don't worry.

The tone felt fine to me too. Maybe just because it wasn't directed at me but I don't see how it made him feel like a villain.

I'm a little worried this is setting up for pushing but I guess we'll see.

I usually push players who are vocally weaker compared to me as scum, and Volxen doesn't fit that criteria.

Unless I have a specific context for pushing a player that is vocally difficult to eliminate (as I did on partition with ABR)

After our last game together -- where we were both town and I incorrectly scumread you early on in the game because I was suspicious of your "easy" townread on me -- I think it's plausible that scum!you would be aggressive towards my slot and push me in the beginning. You know I'm skeptical of people who townread me if I can't follow their reasoning. So if anything, I would expect scum!you to err on the side of being too aggressive towards my slot (rather than whiteknight me), at least initially, because you could always pull back later and have your read of me "evolve" into a townread if I started to become more widely townread.

I don't know if scum!you would necessarily deathtunnel me, but I am convinced after our last game together that scum!you would be very cautious with things like the timing of when you might fake a townread on me and your fake reasons for doing so, because you know that I would call you out on it if I felt that your reasons for townreading me were not genuine.

So I don't buy this narrative at all that scum!you would always start off by pushing the less vocal slots.

Then this further supports my point earlier that clidd might be setting up a push.

I hate Raya's posting way too much. Every post looks so scummy. This is my top scum read.

An example of this type of impression is this post (

town!volxen

):

viewtopic.php?p=12060913#p12060913

I can feel it when Volxen presents a line of reasoning that I look at and think ''gee, this analysis is super towny, I think I would think the same if we switch places''.

Unlike this, for example (

scum!volxen

):

viewtopic.php?p=11618440#p11618440

Where I can smell superficiality 1 km away.

It seems to me that you were the opposite alignment both times. If that is true, I am hesitant to believe this analysis.

But hopefully, we are in a reality where everything is flowing as I expected and my reads on the slots are going well.

This sounds a little self conscious.

regardless of clidd's alignment, raya is my first locktown

Why?

regardless of clidd's alignment, raya is my first locktown

I cc

Why?

(Mixed up who replaced into which slot)

I feel like this comes from town more than scum. I'm going to lift this to null.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

Is there a difference?

Hullo! I wish you all a great sunday ahead.

I'm not really following what Raya and clidd are arguing about.

Gimli's "regardless of clidd's alignment, Raya is locktown" seems really weird to me. Why would a clidd flip not make you reconsider your read?

Maybe if you understood their argument you'd understand why I'm so hard in leaning raya town. It does appear to me that raya, volxen and clidd are playing something of a game of their own, with all that combined meta and wits between the 3 of them. Raya caught clidd being too hasty in townreading volxen for something volxen did that isn't supposed to be read as towny, and I think the push in that direction was too nuanced to ever come from scum. Even if clidd is town, that doesn't diminish the towniness in raya's thought process.

Speaking of which, I was a little uneasy with clidd's strong TR of me, because my TR of clidd was weaking at that point and I think he noticed it (given I was open about strong townreading raya), and I felt that maybe clidd decided to try to maintain himself on my good side by pocketing me. I'm not sure my posts were towny enough to be townread that strongly.

I absolutely hated the push on clidd. It looked very slimy. I don't think past experience with a player justifies nasty pushes like that.

Ahsoka seems like a bit of an oddball type of player, and as an oddball myself I sympathize with how hard it is sometimes to make yourself understood. That is to say I might have been too hasty in identifying the oddity of her posting as scummy, and a post such as this appears to have layers of genuine solvey thought processes. It's not a strong read but I've been liking the way she responded to all the pressure.

This switched too fast but I still think it's a towny thought process. I think I'm going to officially move Gimli up to a townread.

did a re-read on the entire thing.

clidd is a stronger townlean now than before the re-read. I think what bothers me the most about him is townreading volxen based off nothing, then trying to act smart about it. I'm also townreading ahsoka now. I think the way she developed her posting in thread was very natural and the way she responded to pressure was good. it's not much but I gotta work with this townpool for now <raya, ahsoka, clidd>.

if I squint real hard, I can see something towny about radja. NM did nothing either way.

that leaves me with volxen, dkkoba and horsewoman. volxen's wall defending dkkoba's tripping over themselves at the beginning of d1 and then dkkoba going 'i feel naked uwu' and then defending volxen when no one was pushing him are all suspicious to me. + no one pushed horsewoman yet, someone who was just here to complain about a game having 6 pages 36 hours into it. if she was town there'd be a wagon already.

Volxen was dropped to a null once my scum read on dkkoba faded out.
I agree with the clidd townread.
Ahsoka is a null for me for now. I've wavered in between townread and null for them so I think the townread is reasonable.
Raya I disagree with entirely. She hasn't posted a single post that I haven't felt was extremely scummy.

horsewoman is avoiding this thread for some reason?? also who are they cause i suddenly saw them post in a certain thread that i have never seen them post in!!! im suspicious of u in the context of site user not necessarily in the context of being scum

new user posts in thread for first time. absolutely shocking. i should have just used quantum time travel to post in a thread before having posted in it for the first time.

Like come on man, bring the game into the game, bring your paranoid crap into the admins DMs not here.

This level of anger and frustration doesn't feel fake. I'm going to call it town.

I mean obviously this is forced and ridiculous (doing actual game-related catchup now)

This can be my new top townread.

This, however, is a relatively lazy read from Gimli. Just finished a game with him (my first game onsite so don't expect any other meta from me) where he was scum and he was universally townread and really competent. So he's someone I want to have my eye on throughout this one.

I'm honestly unsure what I think of Gimli currently. His entrance made me think scum but after that mostly everything was null or townread material. I can't remember most of his posts also. I can only think of off the top of my head one readslist that I agreed with except for the Raya read.

Okay this reads list is so bad I'm joining this wagon

VOTE: Radja.

I'm caught up, it was super easy and fast because most of the 12 pages was dkkoba spewing nonsense. Although I don't mind making short multiposts, I think posting as much as koba is is kind of anti-town (at least on mafiascum, where games are soooooooo slow), so I would advise koba to cut that aspect out of his playstyle/this game.

Gimli's playing pretty differently than he did in our game together. And by that I mean worse. I think paradoxically that makes him more likely to be town here? He's producing less reads and less analysis but that might be because he's only producing genuine reads/analysis. Want to see more from him. Koba has made a lot of posts I disagree with and posts like 223 really rub me the wrong way. Radja's reads list is so atrocious I don't think it can come from anyone trying to solve/read the game. I'm kind of biased against koba because he's accused me (without evidence) of being an alt of a guy who was apparently banned for sexual harassment, and that's a really fucking uncool thing to do. So I've got personal animus there. Post 217 from clidd I really dislike, the thought process of 'I agree with him so he's town' is itself, really artificial. I liked ahsoka's posting a reasonable amount.

Now I'm having problems with this readslist.
Clidd is solid town. Occasionally I question it but overall, I'm pretty sure he's just town.
Gimli and Dkkoba are still nulls. I dont think I'm willing to give either a townread thinking back on that.
I think I was too quick to townread this and am dropping it to null now.

Radja/horsewoman/Gimli

Radja/horsewoman/Gimli

the way this is my exact GtH solve rn

This sort of interaction is the sort I'd usually say wouldn't be between two scum but I think it has a high chance of being so here. That's because the setup of 3 scum out of 9 heavily incentivizes the scum to buddy up and stick together, because if all 3 are going the same way they only need 2 town to join them. So basically I'm saying that bussing is incredibly unlikely and scum overtly allying is much more possible.

I don't think they are scum together.

I'm saying that close buddying up in this game is more likely to be scummy in this game than other games. You and N_M have closely buddied up, which in the context of this game, is scummy behaviour. Please don't immaturely attempt to own me.

Nevermind. I think this has to be town. Back to town reads.

Town: Clidd, Horsewoman
Null: Ahsoka, Gimli, Dkkoba, V-something
Scum: Raya, Not_Mafia

I'm halfway caught up with a full set of reads and a decent amount of confidence! This is it for tonight and I'll be back to read the rest tomorrow.

[clidd]

seems my thought on gimil/horsewoman and the dichotomy between them was relatively true. gimil is putting in a ton of extra credit in some places but here's where i stand in regards to it:

the act of it reads meaningless. if i were to further elaborate on my thought and why i placed gimil in [not town] it's that he seems indecisive in ways that do not align with a considerate townie, rather an objectionable scum who wants to effort but doesn't want to fully commit to a bad read, and in turn look worse because of it. it's a common angle, look like you know what you're doing so in turn people just agree and townread the effort. but the effort itself made by gimil lacks, and his pushes/reads all seem in a vacuum instead of ebbing and flowing. his push on koba for example is a testament of this, where he aggravated koba and got zero result out of it. he was just responding in such a way to appease koba and look reasonable while doing it. he seems very concerned about his image, very concerned about the ""right"" takes, so much that it is coming off to me as fake.

VOTE: gimil son of gloin

[clidd]

I should have been more communicative about my impression on Volxen/Lostego.

At least the flip must have helped to read my slot better, although it is not so personally suggestive to me.

[clidd]

876 is very transparent. I don't understand how there can be people scumreading Gimli.

[clidd]

Do you think it's fake?

[clidd]

Hum.

I understand what you are saying, although I have been getting a towny impression of Gimli during much of the game.

[clidd]

I'm comfortable with Raya being town and you too, Infinity.

But I think I'll want to see the list, considering that I'm not so sure on Amélie being scum vs NM being scum.

[clidd]

I confess that I have a seed of internal doubt about Gimli.

I think that four or five slots, including players who are no longer in the game, have expressed some doubt about Gimli and I don't know how to face the fact that I am not sympathizing with it. I would have to assume that my vision is right and all of these players are wrong or scum, which would be very arrogant on my part and statistically more unlikely to be true.

pedit: A mechanical aid may be useful to clarify any loose ends not only in my reads, but in others too.

[clidd]

Or, if we aren't using it, I would like to eliminate between Amélie and NM.

Particularly, I think NM is being pushed a lot less than I would think of town!NM vs three scums and as nothing he said or did until now is suggestive enough to infer a specific alignment, the initial impression I described is the way I'm seeing the slot rn.

Radja/Amélie share the same color in the sense of apathy and I believe that the reads that Amélie shared are very easy to manufacture and do not satisfactorily indicate a desire to resolve the game.

[clidd]

Well, if you are town and you think I'm town having bad reads, you must try to make me understand it.

It is similar to what I said to Dk during our discussion. You have to slap me hard in the face to wake me up, because from my perspective I don't know the difference between being dreaming or being lucid.

pedit: Kind of meh, but still a possibility.

[clidd]

But yeah, I agree that the list is more useful if we have a strong TR base.

So maybe it is more valuable to reevaluate what we already know before consolidating (I will go back in my consolidation of Gimli and Raya, although they still TRs to me).



Is Ahsoka there?

[clidd]

Can you expand on your gimli thoughts more? I'm not sure what I said now that convinced you when you weren't convinced before.

I will (when more available in time)

[clidd]

pedit: A mechanical aid may be useful to clarify any loose ends not only in my reads, but in others too.

that's not enough for me. I'd really like to understand how exactly can you parse out NM and amélie through a list. Maybe give me an example of how would that work? You understand if we use the list and miselim today, we lose the game?

Honestly your posts this gameday are confusing me. I'm gonna trust my work in this thread and not bother too much, but I really expected you of all people to see that using the doomcounter is a mechanical throw. Also it all seems very lazy from where I stand, but I'm not gonna hold you to a higher standard than everyone else I guess.

Raya, I'll respond to you tomorrow.

Infinity, I have not played with not mafia before.

I've been in "hit or miss" situations and this kind of scenario doesn't intimidate me too much, but I understand that it might not be as advantageous as it seems.

Regarding the list, it depends on what's on it. It can either have a very significant impact on my reads or slightly suggest a change.

And as you probably saw, my brain works differently. I'm trying to filter out this set of negative impressions that have been raised over your slot and measure whether my reads on you is correct or not.

[clidd]

Actually, I think we can stop speculating about ''x'' or ''y'' scenarios using the list and etc.

Perhaps going back to the ''this is town or scum'' stage individually is better.

Depending on how the game flows, we won't even need to use the list if we are successful in identifying each slot.

[clidd]

I'm guessing that I would probably know after seeing the list, depending on who was on it.

Or not and I would have to use any information, however small, from the list

[clidd]

Changing the subject, I would like opinions about Amélie. I believe she is an interesting slot to figure out in the current gamestate.

I still have to book a time to answer 939 properly.

[clidd]

By the way, I liked your 906, Raya.

I believe that the proportion that you attributed to the development of your read about me, without losing the careful approach to not conclude anything in a hasty way, reflected me very organic.

I fear that everything I demonstrated in this game so far is still within my scumrange, but that shouldn't be a problem if you keep evaluating me correctly (which I believe you are).

[clidd]

Hum, thanks Ahsoka.

At least you see what I see on Gimli, but 958 doesn't make much sense to me.

[clidd]

Raya, Amelia, Clidd, Not Mafia, Dkkoba, Infinity have 3 scum in them.

I can see this.

[clidd]

957 is a reasonable interpretation of my attitude.

But the rest of the post seems a little traveled.

pedit: I'm towreading Infinity and I don't see how a vote for both of us would carry more weight than slots like Amélie or NM. I don't know if I understood your reasoning.

It seems to me that you are coming by associations instead of scumreading individually? correct me if I'm wrong.

pedit²: I still don't understand, I'll reread your posts.

[clidd]

Actually, I see why NM and Amélie aren't together and have 1 max scum between them.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Ok, let me take a look pbp again.

I'm on mobile.

[clidd]

I'm here. I still think Dkkoba/Clidd/Infinity 100% have scum in them

I don't think 100%, but I can see Dk being scum instead of Infinity.

[clidd]

Gimli's never scum here, so people pushing that have scum there.

And scum have almost half the playerlist now, so they're definitely in the active players.

I needed a break so I haven't really mentally been here, but I'll try and do some analysis sometime soon.

What confused me the most is that more than three players pusher strange angles in relation to Gimli, including Lostego. And while I agree that Gimli is at the top of my TRs, I don't think it's wise to ignore those points. I know there are three scums, but it would be very obvious a connection between them if they all agreed to discredit a possible obvtown position for Gimli, when they could keep him in an intermediate towny position to appear organic.

It makes sense to have active scum, but it is a vague assumption to attribute this to all scums. NM and Amélie probably have scum and are not as vocally active slots.

[clidd]

Pushed*

[clidd]

Ok, question: Me and Infinity being town make you scum by poe, pov or etc?

[clidd]

[clidd]

I'm just trying to not be wrong.

[clidd]

You can see the level of my indecision when a slot that was almost lock-town for me starts to be questioned by myself internally.