Mini Theme 2007: Police Academy 1 - Game Over

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey yall!

VOTE: Jingle ♥

So here's my idea:

- Everybody investigates the same target and reveals results so we can compile/compare/analyze.

- The chosen target should be the towniest person by consensus - that's what we should be discussing once we've decided on a lynch but

before the hammer.

This is because…

- Mafia won't want to target that person because then results can be compared to flip (town or scum), so it's also a soft protection.

- Obviously I realize mafias can lie in this, but it wouldn’t be in their best interest to do so because a 1 for 1 trade is never a good trade for mafia, which is what it would come to since there’s literally no other objective to lying about results if not to use the lie to their advantage later. <--- not a townie thing to do in the first place! LYNCH ALL LIARS! Yeah I said it. In this setup, I don’t see any reason for that not to be applicable.

- Anyone who diverges from the group decision by targeting a different person necessarily derails the plan which is anti-town (imo) and should be lynched the next day.

- We can work out statistical probabilities based on the setup, results, and flips as the game goes on.

- Once we have a better baseline, targets can become personal choices per usual.

- Town win, celebrate.

I've never played this setup before, so if you disagree with my idea, I’d love to discuss with you. Tell me where I’ve gone wrong, what your better, alternate idea is, and why it’s better. Or if you have ideas on how to improve this plan, lay it on me.

YAY school's out and mafia is ON!

HI TITUS! ♥

OH ALSO ALSO LOOKIT THIS…

If a majority is not reached by the deadline,

whoever has the most votes will be lynched

. If there is a tie, I will randomize among those who have the most votes. If no one has votes,

I will randomize the lynch among the

town-aligned players.

<--- WTF… lame

Votes for

no lynch will be considered invalid

and will be ignored.

AND THIS!

Day talk is active.

AND THIS!!

The first two day phases will last a maximum of 14 days. Day Three will last a maximum of 12 days, Day Four a maximum of 10 days, and all subsequent Days Phases no more than 8 days.

SO LIKE… KEEP THAT IN MIND. I will personally be taking any attempts at stalling to be a mafia tactic and use all of my available energy to get you lynched. We should be ready to go into the night phase, not forced into it by deadline and panicked votes.
Lastly

@SMITHY: I am V/LA on weekends for the most part, that is, Friday afternoon EST to Monday morning.

P-edit: omg 14 pages... ok... I don't have time to read this right now and if this keeps up I may have to replace out. Game's literally been open less than a day...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

uld you do me a favor and keep D1 somewhat readable? I may have accidentally caused ETL to join this clusterfuck and I'd like to minimize the pain there.

too late.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh yeah.. Um… fuck that 20-headed hydra? That’s annoying as fuck. Lynch it with fire. Why is shit like that ever allowed? I’m not really interested in a spamfest.
VOTE: Stop Getting Banned Again hereafter aka SGBA
Change my mind on why this isn’t a fantastic D1 lynch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

back of the napkin if you get two different checks on two different people it's 75% they're different alignments

VOTE: stop getting banned again

oh this is smart.

OK I'M ACTUALLY JESTER, IDK ABOUT THOSE FUCKERS, BUT MY HEAD GOT PM'D JESTER CULT LEADER
Seriously though, we're here just to outlive Democracy.
Just... nk us n1, and we'll be happy.

*sigh*

I understand being silly in RVS, but seriously... this isn't even constructive. It's just spam.

6 PAGES OF BULLSHIT LATER....

Tonight we all target the horrible abomination hydra. Horrible abomination hydra? You get to target whomsoever you choose (/insert shitty who alt joke). Lucky you. If we end up PLing the hydra today, we need to do so after someone has obvtowned, so we can all target them.

hey look! that's the same idea i had!

YAY JINGLE TOWN ILY

Wrong. Target obvtown, that way scum is disincentivized from shooting them but they can be reasonably be assumed to be town anyway, at least D1. That way scum is forced to help us if they want to get rid of the unlynchable slot. Otherwise, you get to be a good boy.

heee ♥

ok so we will be the obligatory sanity-checking sacrifice

everyone target us tonight and then lynch us D2 to know your sanity

No. Hang.

I fully expect 3/4 of the hydra to have flaked by the end of the weekend. We don't need to operate on a shrinking tumor.

remission != elimination
So far (page 9) they are STILL an annoying, spam-posting, trolling, horrible THING that needs to be removed completely from every game ever. It's

ruining the game for me

i mean, real talk, i dont really understand how a hydra like this can possibly work in the context of mafia.
i cant hold any specific head accountable for any specific post and if i ask a question, someone else is probably just going to answer it.
theres literally no accountability with a hydra this big.
:/

TRUTH

anyway we're 10 pages in and we've basically solved this whole game

If by "solved" you mean "shit on everything and drown out everyone else who has a right to contribute and make it difficult for people to enjoy the game", then sure.

@Mod request you force replace hydra please

I second this.

@Mod request you force replace hydra please

There were clearly posted warnings.

That's like saying, "I told you I was an asshole, so you're the one at fault for my shitty behavior."

Nuh uh. Stop being a fucking troll and play the game,

or shut the fuck up

.

@Mod replace me please.

*sigh* the first casualty of hydra trolling BS...

VOTE: Gork

No.

D1 lynch is going to be a crapshoot, might as well be the most annoying poster here. I've already got some great town reads. You and gork being the top of the list.

---end of page 11---

ok i have to stop here and get some work done. i'll be back later.

*sigh*

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I retract what I said about schad's post. That's dumb. I dunno what I was thinking.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UNVOTE:

actually now I realize what the sacrifice was meant for. fine. i'm down with that. check the turds tonight, and hang em tomorrow.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I concur with your plan ETL. However, I am a selfish woman. I'd like to skip the paranoid of each other phase and use you as the check tonight and just lynch the annoying as fuck hydra. Spam and using horrible language.

Yeah sure but you're not going to get anything useful unless you lynch me tomorrow, right? You don't know what sanity you are. And if you're doing it for "paranoia" reasons, that's just a shitty hole I don't want to get into because even though I know my alignment, you're not going to take my word for it to check against your result. The only way to check your sanity, and even then only probable sanity until you get multiple checks against multiple flips, is by investigating then lynching the same target. If you plan on pushing for my lynch tomorrow already, that's a different story. I hope that's not the case because then this becomes less paranoia and more scum planning.

So if we are all agreed that we lynch the hydra tomorrow, checking them tonight will give us results to compare against the lynch tomorrow and give us a jump start on figuring out sanities.

We don't need sacrifice lynches. Just use the checks as a rotating doctor.

If we wanted to push our luck, we could do two groups of 6.

I don’t understand - can you clarify what you mean? What’s your idea?

We're not lynching the designated "target tonight player" tomorrow.

Wait, what? We're not? I thought that was the plan?

Though I do agree with you the posting got better

after 11 pages...

Reading more.. until lunch is over.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You don’t target the designated lynch target with a doctor. You target someone you’re pretty sure is town. Same with the pseudo doc.

Then what is even the point. Our roles are useless.

This is essentially mountainous.

Back to work for me. I couldn't concentrate on what I was reading so I'll have to read it again later.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The check target is someone who scum don't want to kill for obvious reasons. So we consistently cop the highest town reads and skilled players. Eventually scum have to shoot the skilled players, we get scum lynches, or we get tangible proof of agency capture (meaning scum lead town by buddying or being townread).

This dillema helps protect our best players or gives us a wealth of information when scum were already going to kill someone.

I'm on the same page now, I think. At this point I'm less enthused by

The Plan

TM

than I was before seeing as the investigation doesn't really seem to matter other than as a lolRole

Despite ETL and my having some baggage, I respect her a lot.

No baggage left - I respect you too. We frands, lady face. Plus I’m getting a bit old for high-emotion stuff. I would love a calm game full of discussion and scumhunting - that would be my ideal game right now. That’s what I love about mafia; you get the chance to work with different minds to “solve the case”, so to speak.

That being said, I don’t want any nonsense from your investigation to get in the way of our collaboration. If you at some point legitimately feel I’m worth lynching, fine, so be it, but it better be because of actual reasons. I think that’s the only thing that would frustrate me because I think there’s a lot of room for people to misunderstand the setup and the way things actually are, myself included. My head already hurts thinking about how to break it. I’m hoping some other smarty pantses in the thread can do a better job of the analysis later on.

But we WANT our investigation target to die sooner rather than later.

Yeah but.. See Titus’ post above. She explained it really well.

This brings me to a question I have about the current state of the game.

I’ve been seeing votes for Porkens, which I was planning to ask about once I finished reading and had a better handle on the slot. Well, now I do despite not having finished the read. This post makes me think she’s (?) town. Specifically, I’d like to hear from those currently voting Porkens to help me understand why I’m wrong.

Ginngie on the other hand seems not so much. I can’t tell if it’s just a style difference or actual scumminess. These posts just seem like.. searching for words to make a lynch, rather than actual reasons. ALSO, the fact that the explanation came AFTER the vote, in separate posts, almost like they realized they should have explained it to avoid being scumread for a naked vote.

VOTE: Punreader

Cheeky was forced

Pun is nothing better

Pun has puns but there is no actual logic behind his reads

Thus, just making statements to state them

The same could be said of this.

hey sick idea:
how about instead of being shitty to people, we dont be shitty to people?

MORE TRUTH

I like you Gork. You are good peoples. Also Titus is right, I’ve seen you play. You is brilliant.

Ok. I’m gonna take another crack at reading the last few pages.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I totally disagree about the "towniest player" theory of the game.

I believe that if the targets don't die, and it will become a huge mess of unknown/uncertain information and gives the scum a lot more flexibility to make tactical maneuvers.

I think our strategy should be blunt: Mass investigate one target, out reports, lynch. Then we can start hashing out the data right away and give the scum less time to plan.

I'm going to assume that, given the setup, there is a janitor-like role that hides the flips of nightkills as well.

So, given all that, I think we should mass investigate the penultimate

scummiest

player.

Having universal town reads is so much stronger for town than having maybeSanes-maybeNotSanes. I agree that lynching the target would increase the timeline but that should not supplant scumhunting which is a far better tool over the investigations. Being able to discourage mafia kills is much more powerful for town, and townreads are much more dangerous for scum. Does that make sense?

HI TN!

p-edit:

And just to add to that: we want to investigate and lynch scum. Those go together.
Investigating townie players is just not as useful.

That would definitely be true

if sanity was guaranteed

, but it isn't, unfortunately, which makes the results super unreliable. I totally get where you're coming from, but I don't think you're considering all the factors.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I enjoy Porkens. They's a thinker.

Porkens - are you a she? I thought another player referred to you as she somewhere in here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Welp, this is game over, town basically wins if ETL is town.

aww shucks

Talk about pressure.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

LOOK I MADE A THING WE CAN USE!!!

[tr][th]PLAYER[/th][th]N1 INVESTIGATION(TARGET;RESULT;FLIP)[/th][th]N2[/th][/tr] [tr][td]MULCH[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]SGBA[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]PENGUINPOWER[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]PORKENS[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]JINGLE[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]GORKINGTON[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]TITUS[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]KIDAMN[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]GINNGIE[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]ALMOST50[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]ESPECIALLYTHELIES[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]SCHADD_[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr] [tr][td]CHEEKYTEEKY/PUN?[/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

holy jeebus please somebody help me

why did my table such fail??

[EspeciallyTheLies]

My understanding is that town wins these kind of cop games by mass investigating and then cross-checking results, regardless of the mix of cops, we should be able to figure some things out with a good spreadsheet (which we can't build if we don't get flips).

Uh... yeah, you are right. Agreed.

I'm not suggesting that we supplant scumhunting. We lynch the scummiest player, and just pick someone who we think are unlikely the mafia will nightkill. This is important due to janitor concerns.

Janitor? There's no janitor... is there?

Sanity randomness make results unreliable whether they are on mafia or town players. That doesn't persuade me that we should investigate those whom we think are town. Chances are

The "doc protection" is an illusion anyway. Town has one mechanic here that it has control over: reports. I say we use that mechanic.

Hmm.. maybe. I like the idea of dissuading mafia from selecting certain people for the kill by town choosing. But the argument re: information is more compelling.

TPFKAP is my "she" side, but I don't mind either way

Ok, so "he" for this game, then? I will keep that in mind. ♥

p-edit: yah and it has the table tags, so i dunno what the heck i did.

pedit 2

[EspeciallyTheLies]

2: EspeciallyTheLies : Though she doesn't know it yet, I know her, and was not especially fond of her entrance. It felt like she was telling tall tales.

*sigh*

"tall tales"? How on earth can one even tell lies when there was literally nothing to lie about...?

oh it's puns.

*sigh*

Still, you haven't even directed anything at me, and your reasoning for having me as a top scumread (and not voting me???) is so empty. I got nothing.

Talk to me.

p-edit:

YAY PORKENS WINS

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ESPECIALLYHEADERELIES

lolwat

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Her entrance lacked real reads, reasoning, and mechanics talk

I... have never expected this from anyone's "entrance".... ? Unless they are a replacement... It's day one of day one...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

3: Titus: I also know Titus. Her entrance lacked real reads, reasoning, and mechanics talk. It was altogether lazy. Admittedly, it's a bit early to condemn her; I will keep you

abreast

of the situation.

ok that funny

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I've read page 12 like 20billion times. I'm so bored with it but every time I get to the bottom I cant remember anything I read.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

im sad a bunch of people got fancy pants reasoning for being scum, but im not worthy in punlords eyes. its okay. its definitely fine.

pedit: i have a bunch of posts on page 12 though. ):

It's not that the content is boring, it's just that I'm having fun engaging people in realtime rather than reading past stuff, at least for the moment. I promise to commit myself when I get home and read the pages of info I'm missing.

Titus/Mulch scumteam? Titus/Mulch scumteam. Probably.

????
why?

I was going to address this too. It doesn't hit me the right way really. I don't quite have a read on Mulch. I'm gonna have to do an ISO on him to get a better feel.

Titus.. I don't know. First instinct is that she's town - trying to work out the setup, the best way to use available resources, discussing ideas with me - all good signs. Paranoia says, "Don't be so naive, ETL!"

[EspeciallyTheLies]

the presence of a player I have blacklisted

Who is it?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Punreader

• ... i forgot how to do ANYTHING in this site...
  
  1. Your name is punREADER, not punWRITER. Just saying.
  2. I hope the pun-shtick is relatively dead now. I'd hate for this to be your way of obfuscating your reads and intentions. Because that's kind of what it looks like to me.
  3. Please engage me (but also others) more.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So, if you want to go down that route you need to No Lynch on D1,

No Lynch not allowed.

target someone specific on N1, lynch them on D2, target another one on N2 and lynch them on D3. By that time we would have lost 4 players, and if both lynches are on Town players we start D4 in MyLo (5 v 3), and "could" potentially have a reliable guilty by then. However,

there's no guarantee that will be the case and if we don't have a solid guilty by then AND at least 2 living sane/insane Cops

we're back to traditional scum hunting anyway, which I believe should be the case from the beginning.

The bolded is a very strong point. I agree scum hunting should be priority over spending a lot of time sorting out the results. However, I do think it's still an important aspect of the game, and maybe just a few people can be the super awesome analysts of that data?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Pun has puns but there is no actual logic behind his reads

Thus, just making statements to state them

Having read pun's ISO, I'm in agreement with you. I apologize for the snap judgement.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If you hadn't guessed.. I'm looking at ISOs...

i think penguin power is

town

Why?

i'll name my firstborn son "shit" if mulch is scum here

What's your experience with Mulch? Lots of past games together? Can you elaborate on your strong town read of Mulch?

VOTE: a50

Why... your ISO doesn't even mention him until this post.

i think porkens is

town

Why? Also why the color shift between this and the post re: penguin?

can somebody remind me at around post 1200 that i'm garbage and should re-ev

What is this? Why did you make this post?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm already locking you as town btw

Same.

But, I need an answer to my rainbow read penchant before I give a town read to the hydra.

someone there knows.

p-edit

These are things that are going to exist forever.

pp-edit

In multiplicity.

Of course I could be wrong but penguin is kinda obvious scum (no offense penguin <3) So I'll found out sooner or later

No offense taken. I'm good scum in the newbie queue, but I suck outside it (and tbh, I don't really play there much anymore for reasons).

Of course I could be wrong but penguin is kinda obvious scum (no offense penguin <3) So I'll found out sooner or later

No offense taken. I'm good scum in the newbie queue, but I suck outside it (and tbh, I don't really play there much anymore for reasons).

Let's town together

Yeah, sure, for now.

But...after vonflare's game, I'm worried about my read on you.

This is weird. First Mulch and Penguin townread each other. Then they scumread each other. Then they townread each other again. But beyond that not much actual discussion going on re: other players between these two seemingly close buds.

I'm sorry... I suppose I'm spamming now... no one is talking to me anymore

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Nevermind. After reading Mulch's ISO I understand the misread I made re: his post 66. He was saying that Penguin is obvious

when she's scum

, not that she's obvscum

right now

Like this game is half meme but half real
and as much as the meme part of me wants to quicklynch you
the real part of me realizes that like

in terms of my win condition that might be a bad idea

This was directed at the hydra, I believe. The bolded is weirded wordly

i mean, real talk, i dont really understand how a hydra like this can possibly work in the context of mafia.
i cant hold any specific head accountable for any specific post and if i ask a question, someone else is probably just going to answer it.
theres literally no accountability with a hydra this big.
:/

Yeah but 26X the meta

Also:

VOTE: Gorkington

Mulch, can you talk about this a bit?

Why wasn't I smart enough to think of all targetting the same person

Is this real or sarcasm?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Pun has puns but there is no actual logic behind his reads

Thus, just making statements to state them

Having read pun's ISO, I'm in agreement with you. I apologize for the snap judgement.

ya know, I actually really fuck with the fact that you went back and reviewed stuff.

It tells me you care and shit

well.. I was wrong. I didn't have all the info. Also it kinda helps now that I had that thought when I first read your post cuz I've had both sides of the coin in my head on you and I think it will make understanding the tone of your future posts easier.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok leaving work now. I'll be back laterrrrr.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

we target a universal townread, we give scum a choice. Either they can shoot said universal townread and give us confirmation of our investigations OR they can shoot outside of the obvtown pool we make and let us start PoEing the shit out of the game. Between the PoE, the narrowing of each pool of players, and the fact that WE WON'T BE DECIDING OUR LYNCHES A FULL DAY IN ADVANCE, this plan gives us a far better chance of not shitting the bed and giving this game to scum on a silver platter.

THIS

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This is something you can inquire more about.

I'm not interested in mind games. If you want me to know who you are, then go ahead and tell me. This isn't third grade.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Please note: I'm an accountant and today is the last Friday of the month - i.e. very busy today at work, where I normally do the majority of my posting. As I'll be mostly V/LA for the weekend, I'll make sure I catch up and respond to people tonight after the gym.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That wasn't what you could inquire more about.

I said I wasn't interested in mind games.

VOTE: punreader

I could see Almost50 as a partner.

Reads are as follows:

Mulch - ? town via Jingle?
Stop Getting Banned Again - I don't understand how this slot became the "obvtown" slot? It's not that clear to me...
PenguinPower - town?
Porkens - TOWN
Jingle - TOWN
Gorkington - TOWN
Titus - ? scum
Nosferatu (replaced KidAmn) - ?
Ginngie - TOWN
Almost50 - scum
schadd_ - ?
Punreader (replaced CheekyTeeky) - scum

Officially

read up through p19, though I did skim through most recent posts this morning.

I'm exhausted, btw, fiance was on call and phone went off at dumb o'clock this morning. I also have boot camp and salon later, and it's month end right now, so probably wont be much efforting today. But I'm here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

More organized, from strongest town to strongest scum reads:

MOST TOWN

Porkens
Jingle
Ginngie

-maybe town? town via townreads?-

Gork
Mulch
Penguin
SGBA

-nulls-

Nos
schadd_

Almost50
Titus
Punreader

MOST SCUM

[EspeciallyTheLies]

To quote, once more:

... and?

If you have specific questions for me, ask them.

Otherwise, it's mind games, plain and simple. Stop re-quoting yourself as though your post was somehow enlightening or worthy of repeating. It's nothing special, and if I thought you were actually saying anything worth responding to, I'd have done so. I think you're scum, and you're hiding behind a nonsense gimmick. Nothing in that post can be taken honestly, it only serves your agenda. You're deliberately making yourself unclear, and not to mention, annoying. I'm not going to sit here and play guessing games with you. What a waste of time. Either vote me or shut up.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You're not immune to making misplays. Just because you draw an alignment doesn't mean you know how to nail the interaction.

This tells me you already know for a fact that Jingle is town, and probably Titus. Trying to make Jingle question his ability to read two people he's pretty damn close to is just nasty scum tactics.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It felt like she was telling tall tales.

And this is what you want me to respond to???

What is there to respond to? I haven't lied about a damn thing. I've been nothing but open and transparent in my thought process and ideas the entire time.

You can hang. I see exactly what you're trying to do. If you know me, then you know I'm a threat as town, and you're trying to get rid of me.

Bring it on.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You're not immune to making misplays. Just because you draw an alignment doesn't mean you know how to nail the interaction.

This tells me you already know for a fact that Jingle is town, and probably Titus. Trying to make Jingle question his ability to read two people he's pretty damn close to is just nasty scum tactics.

ACTUALLY....

THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER...

This tells me you know TWO THINGS:

1) Jingle is town and
2) TITUS IS SCUM WITH YOU

That's why you're so confident Jingle is "making misplays".

Holy shit. What a slip!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

JINGLE. READ THIS DANGIT.

READ IT RIGHT NOW. LOOK WHAT I FOUND.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Heyo

so

ETL

do I need full context of a catch up to understand what you're saying or nah

In post 609, Punreader is talking to Jingle about why the interaction between me/Titus is or isn't scum/scum. Jingle is saying it distinctly isn't and gives his reason. Pun says Jingle is wrong, and tell him he's not "immune to misplays" - this means that Pun is looking at Jingle as town since he's "wrong" as opposed to "lying". There is no discernible trajectory for him to have this as a read, thus he must already know Jingle is town.

The second part is the fact that Jingle is saying it is town/town, or at least town/scum, not scum/scum. Pun says he's wrong, thus Pun knows that it's NOT town/town. He's trying to say that it's scum/scum, but since

I know I'm town

- I understand that you don't, but from my perspective, this is resolved for me - since I know I'm town, it can only be town/town or town/scum. Pun saying it's not, means he knows Titus is scum.

Does that make sense?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And even if he was reading Jingle as town, he himself said there was a large gap between mulch and Jingle, meaning it's not even that strong of a read. But suddenly he knows Jingle is "making misplays" by reading me/Titus as not scum/scum... ???

Right.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: Punreader

ETL, I am sheeping you here. The only strong scumread I have is not getting lynched due to sheer nonsense volume. You seem pretty confident in your slip though and I remember how I felt when you TRed me and talked me out of lynching scum that won. So, I'll follow you for now. If the hydra ever becomes a thing though, I am voting it.

didn't etl imply that you were scum by extension because of that slip?

are you just glancing over that

She's trying to distance now. She's never been good at being subtle with that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Well this is fun..

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I guess I could do more ISOs.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I honestly can't even figure out if this is townTitus who's tired of mafia, or scumTitus who's trying not to rock the boat.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jingle, I need you to walk me through you hydra read, please. And I don't want any of that "meta, trust me" bs. Give me tangible, reasonable, provable reasons. SHOW me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i think penguin power is

town

Does anyone here have experience with schad or eddit? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Dunno why it quoted that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

13 players, plus 20 extra people in one slot, and not a single post in over 14 hours. wtf is going on here?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

some elaboration would be nice

This comment is amazing considering 471

Plus the protecting of Titus was weird.

why does scum!titus decide to vote someone for language?

The better question is why would a town Titus decide to vote someone for language?

an arguably unreasonable vote for pretty much policy reasons is exactly something I expect from titus.

I also don't think Titus requires to policy vote to make a natural entrance to the game.

Like.. wtf is this...?

honestly just let her have her fun

Gives zero explanation of reads, engages no one (I mean, he says I'm scum but... does... nothing... to talk to me at all??) Nor does he make any attempt at supporting his reads. His pun vote is curious. Makes me wonder if I'm wrong there, and should vote nos instead...


Also think gork is town. So, the noose tightens thusly...

MOST TOWN

Porkens
Jingle
Ginngie
Gork

-maybe town?

town via townreads?

-

Mulch
Penguin
SGBA

schadd_

-nulls-

Almost50


Titus

Nos--?--Punreader

MOST SCUM

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I could also see Titus' lack of enthusiasm as being scum exhaustion, i.e. she's demotivated because she rolled mafia, again. I got that way for a while.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

OH. MHM.

FASCINATING.

HELLO? ANYBODY HOME?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

K I'm going to the beach

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Holy mother of textwalls

It's better than what he had before! Agreed, that like... paragraph breaks would be nice, but I'll take that over unreadability.

Skimmed before Wednesday meeting, so I'll have to read/respond more in-depth later.

Eddie needs to discuss his vote - literally everything else was explained

except

that, so that needs to happen.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Drop it

Also this.... ??

Quite literally the way you play mafia? Is scum/town hunting....

*sigh*

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Explicit Agreement with the Plan to target Banned Hydra tonight and immediately out results tomorrow:

Stop Getting Banned Again
PenguinPower
Porkens
Jingle
Nosferatu

Not:

Draynth
Gorkington
Titus
Ginngie
Almost50
EspeciallyTheLies
eddie
Punreader

This is unacceptable. Further, there has been no follow up on the Creature stuff, despite knowing that Creature has posted at least some in the thread, purportedly. Where are we at on that?

hey dodo brain.... my very first post was the same idea. i agree in targeting the hydra.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i acknowledge that you said words to me that i have no further interest in saying words about

this is how i feel about pun's posts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Votecount 1.08

PenguinPower (1)

Porkens ,

Porkens (1)

Gorkington ,

Titus (4)

Jingle , Ginngie , Stop Getting Banned Again , Punreader ,

Ginngie (1)

Almost50 ,

EspeciallyTheLies (1)

eddie ,

Punreader (3)

Nosferatu , EspeciallyTheLies , Titus ,

Not Voting (2)

PenguinPower , Draynth ,

Day one deadline is Wednesday May 9, 6 PM PST. (expired on 2018-05-09 18:00:00)

With 13 alive it takes 7to lynch!

[/size]

not really interested in lynching titus at the moment.. though to be fair i dont have much in this game in general, but i'm still committed to working on it.

jingle can you explain the titus vote...? she's so null at the moment compared to others in the thread i dont follow at all why you're voting there.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why are you so confident on me town?

cuz it feels like you're trying to solve the game rather than manipulate it and i'm ignoring paranoia at the moment.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Town:
Mulch
Stop Getting Banned Again
Porkens
Jingle

Null
PenguinPower
Ginngie
Almost50
Nosferatu
Gorkington
Titus

Don't Lynch Day 1 Reads, Vaguely Town to scum
Punreader
eddie
EspeciallyTheLies

I'd appreciate town reasons about/content from anyone in the Null pile.

this is bullshit. i thought you knew me better than this.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Spoiler: @ETL, townish posts from the hydra. Mostly tn and Who (Who signed desperado)

I don't want to flip you D2.

I'm told the creature thing is basically trust tell levels of sheepable. AND that his reads are solid but charisma is shit. I want to make scum kill you. The PL aspect of your hydra goes way down once the memers get their collective fill.

Besides, we're not going to get a huge amount of information from one night and one flip. It's more important to narrow people down into the groups than to worry about actually figuring out sanities D1 and D2, so that we can determine if we have a pool of conftown.

The question is, how long does it take for Creature's reads to become good.

I'm pretty sure we're the easy lynchbait of the game, basically doing scum's work for them in demotivating the town. Hence, Cheeky replacing out. I hope that this fiasco ends in some mafia bans for memers, personally.

I can agree with the last part, but we do need to sort our roles sometime.

Who is 100% correct, btw.

What's the scumclaim?

Gonna take a wild guess and say srcreenplay, as he's the one that claimed gorkington scumclaimed.

~tn5421

Gorkington is making a much bigger deal out of this hydra than it deserves, and he's doing so in such a way that appears to be an attempt to obtain a tactical advantage rather than legitimate annoyance. Cheeky got pissed at us and asked for us to be replaced out then replaced out, that was legitimate. Gorkington's annoyance seems more fake.

-Desperado

UNVOTE:

Why?

Presumably something about the interaction made Gork ping town for him, or at least not-scum. I would also like to know what it was.

~tn5421

Hey yall!

VOTE: Jingle ♥

So here's my idea:

- Everybody investigates the same target and reveals results so we can compile/compare/analyze.

- The chosen target should be the towniest person by consensus - that's what we should be discussing once we've decided on a lynch but

before the hammer.

This is because…

- Mafia won't want to target that person because then results can be compared to flip (town or scum), so it's also a soft protection.

- Obviously I realize mafias can lie in this, but it wouldn’t be in their best interest to do so because a 1 for 1 trade is never a good trade for mafia, which is what it would come to since there’s literally no other objective to lying about results if not to use the lie to their advantage later. <--- not a townie thing to do in the first place! LYNCH ALL LIARS! Yeah I said it. In this setup, I don’t see any reason for that not to be applicable.

- Anyone who diverges from the group decision by targeting a different person necessarily derails the plan which is anti-town (imo) and should be lynched the next day.

- We can work out statistical probabilities based on the setup, results, and flips as the game goes on.

- Once we have a better baseline, targets can become personal choices per usual.

- Town win, celebrate.

I've never played this setup before, so if you disagree with my idea, I’d love to discuss with you. Tell me where I’ve gone wrong, what your better, alternate idea is, and why it’s better. Or if you have ideas on how to improve this plan, lay it on me.

YAY school's out and mafia is ON!

HI TITUS! ♥

OH ALSO ALSO LOOKIT THIS…

If a majority is not reached by the deadline,

whoever has the most votes will be lynched

. If there is a tie, I will randomize among those who have the most votes. If no one has votes,

I will randomize the lynch among the

town-aligned players.

<--- WTF… lame

Votes for

no lynch will be considered invalid

and will be ignored.

AND THIS!

Day talk is active.

AND THIS!!

The first two day phases will last a maximum of 14 days. Day Three will last a maximum of 12 days, Day Four a maximum of 10 days, and all subsequent Days Phases no more than 8 days.

SO LIKE… KEEP THAT IN MIND. I will personally be taking any attempts at stalling to be a mafia tactic and use all of my available energy to get you lynched. We should be ready to go into the night phase, not forced into it by deadline and panicked votes.
Lastly

@SMITHY: I am V/LA on weekends for the most part, that is, Friday afternoon EST to Monday morning.

P-edit: omg 14 pages... ok... I don't have time to read this right now and if this keeps up I may have to replace out. Game's literally been open less than a day...

Welp, this is game over, town basically wins if ETL is town.

Oh yeah.. Um… fuck that 20-headed hydra? That’s annoying as fuck. Lynch it with fire. Why is shit like that ever allowed? I’m not really interested in a spamfest.
VOTE: Stop Getting Banned Again hereafter aka SGBA
Change my mind on why this isn’t a fantastic D1 lynch.

There are a few players, such as myself, that are located in this hydra. I have no interest in trolling the public, and have no problem making myself accountable for my behavior.

UNVOTE:

actually now I realize what the sacrifice was meant for. fine. i'm down with that. check the turds tonight, and hang em tomorrow.

I, for one, find this acceptable and the most likely way to make use of our presence here.

I concur with your plan ETL. However, I am a selfish woman. I'd like to skip the paranoid of each other phase and use you as the check tonight and just lynch the annoying as fuck hydra. Spam and using horrible language.

Then the onus is on you to make town come to a consensus as to who else to use as a sanity check.

Ok, as long as its you or ETL and we lynch the hydra, I don't really care.

Can't get much done with the spam

. I think we have enough to split into two groups but I don't think it's a discussion that can be had.

Fallacious. You CAN get things done, you just have no interest in doing so.

VOTE: Kidamn

Titus/Mulch scumteam? Titus/Mulch scumteam. Probably.

~tn5421

HI TN!

I regret this situation.

I agree that investigating and lynching a scummy player helps town more than doing the same to a townie player.

Welp, this is game over, town basically wins if ETL is town.

aww shucks

Talk about pressure.

Sorry <.<

~tn5421

Creature's posts should be around 414. Don't think he's signing or has posted since that string.

am i missing something or did you seriously just quote posts i've already read? that's not what i asked you for.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I explained why I was voting her.

You

literally

did not.

VOTE: eddie

[EspeciallyTheLies]

We use a different person, not the hydra as a target. We can read the Creature head and make that slot conf!town (or conf!scum). Creature signs his posts as per town wincon. I can read Creature well enough to know if they fake Creature posts. I get it, they're annoying, but our wincon isn't lynch the annoying slots.

Penguin townie. ETL and Pun probably has a scum. Jingle is townie but I have no clue how to read him. No read on Mulch yet. Why is Titus a wagon exactly?

VOTE: etl

These are all the posts "explaining" your vote.

Liar.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

:thorface:

I know you just fine. You've made one series of posts in your town meta and spent a significant portion of the game ignoring me. You are pretty far from a townread at the moment.

yeah no shit, that is clear and that is what's bullshit. why the fuck would i spend any time sorting someone i have in my town pile?!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i'm seriously disappointed jingle. we were supposed to synergy especially once i decided you were town i got really excited and we even had the same idea which meant we were thinking about the game in the same way and then you go and shit on my plans. i'm not happy.

also all these noobs who don't know me at all pretending like that have a clue is funny and i'm irritated.

lynch me today then cuz i don't really feel like doing this for the rest of the game, i'd much rather get to play detective with my friends. cuz otherwise i can just go do minecraft and morrowind and relax.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i cant even fucking vote myself what is this shit

[EspeciallyTheLies]

whatever.

V/LA UNTIL MONDAY

bye

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: punfart

[EspeciallyTheLies]

:thorface:

I know you just fine. You've made one series of posts in your town meta and spent a significant portion of the game ignoring me. You are pretty far from a townread at the moment.

yeah no shit, that is clear and that is what's bullshit. why the fuck would i spend any time sorting someone i have in my town pile?!

ALSO YOU'RE LIKE THE ONLY PERSON HERE I'VE SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT TO INTERACT WITH THE MOST?!?

are you for real, jingle? like really? are you scum?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

FUCK OFF EDIE

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Because I expect town ETL to paranoia read me as scum at the beginning of every game. Like in the last one we played where I softed a PR that knew the PR you WERE was in the game and you still scumread me until we gamesolved. There's been a noticeable lack of that.

i dont care. you're wrong here. dunno what else to tell you. when i flip though i want you file this all away in your little index of "things ETL 'always' does" because if you know anything about me you know my meta is constantly shifting with my moods.

Your acknowledgement of your lack of paranoia is good, but it doesn't make up for the lack of paranoia.

too bad. i dont want to be paranoid. i want to play a game called all the fuckin cops and solve the puzzle. that's all i wanna do.

Notice, however, that I'm more than happy to engage with you, keep you in the game, and listen to what you're saying. I want you to be here. I want you to be town. I'm not going to hand you a free townread because of it, because I did that once and lost the game because of it. Or do you not remember the time I faked an inno on you in a Neighborhood to try to read Bert and you lynched my stupid ass over it before I could explain myself?

no but that sounds funny.

If you are town, instead of self destructing and turning into uselessETL, you should take the chance to engage me. Because if you do, I'll be able to read you and figure it out.

yah well i'm irritated. apparently there's

TWO ALTS

who are being dicks and playing mind games with me that i dont fucking care for. so I'M GOING TO GO AWAY AND PLAY MINECRAFT AND MORROWIND FOR THE WEEKEND. and when i come back on monday maybe i'll feel more like dealing with stupid shit.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

HEY BUTTHEAD. HOW MANY POSTS TO OTHER PEOPLE IN MY ISO ARE THERE?

back of the napkin if you get two different checks on two different people it's 75% they're different alignments

VOTE: stop getting banned again

oh this is smart.

OK I'M ACTUALLY JESTER, IDK ABOUT THOSE FUCKERS, BUT MY HEAD GOT PM'D JESTER CULT LEADER
Seriously though, we're here just to outlive Democracy.
Just... nk us n1, and we'll be happy.

*sigh*

I understand being silly in RVS, but seriously... this isn't even constructive. It's just spam.

6 PAGES OF BULLSHIT LATER....

Tonight we all target the horrible abomination hydra. Horrible abomination hydra? You get to target whomsoever you choose (/insert shitty who alt joke). Lucky you. If we end up PLing the hydra today, we need to do so after someone has obvtowned, so we can all target them.

hey look! that's the same idea i had!

YAY JINGLE TOWN ILY

Wrong. Target obvtown, that way scum is disincentivized from shooting them but they can be reasonably be assumed to be town anyway, at least D1. That way scum is forced to help us if they want to get rid of the unlynchable slot. Otherwise, you get to be a good boy.

heee ♥

ok so we will be the obligatory sanity-checking sacrifice

everyone target us tonight and then lynch us D2 to know your sanity

No. Hang.

I fully expect 3/4 of the hydra to have flaked by the end of the weekend. We don't need to operate on a shrinking tumor.

remission != elimination
So far (page 9) they are STILL an annoying, spam-posting, trolling, horrible THING that needs to be removed completely from every game ever. It's

ruining the game for me

i mean, real talk, i dont really understand how a hydra like this can possibly work in the context of mafia.
i cant hold any specific head accountable for any specific post and if i ask a question, someone else is probably just going to answer it.
theres literally no accountability with a hydra this big.
:/

TRUTH

anyway we're 10 pages in and we've basically solved this whole game

If by "solved" you mean "shit on everything and drown out everyone else who has a right to contribute and make it difficult for people to enjoy the game", then sure.

@Mod request you force replace hydra please

I second this.

@Mod request you force replace hydra please

There were clearly posted warnings.

That's like saying, "I told you I was an asshole, so you're the one at fault for my shitty behavior."

Nuh uh. Stop being a fucking troll and play the game,

or shut the fuck up

.

@Mod replace me please.

*sigh* the first casualty of hydra trolling BS...

VOTE: Gork

No.

D1 lynch is going to be a crapshoot, might as well be the most annoying poster here. I've already got some great town reads. You and gork being the top of the list.

---end of page 11---

ok i have to stop here and get some work done. i'll be back later.

*sigh*

I concur with your plan ETL. However, I am a selfish woman. I'd like to skip the paranoid of each other phase and use you as the check tonight and just lynch the annoying as fuck hydra. Spam and using horrible language.

Yeah sure but you're not going to get anything useful unless you lynch me tomorrow, right? You don't know what sanity you are. And if you're doing it for "paranoia" reasons, that's just a shitty hole I don't want to get into because even though I know my alignment, you're not going to take my word for it to check against your result. The only way to check your sanity, and even then only probable sanity until you get multiple checks against multiple flips, is by investigating then lynching the same target. If you plan on pushing for my lynch tomorrow already, that's a different story. I hope that's not the case because then this becomes less paranoia and more scum planning.

So if we are all agreed that we lynch the hydra tomorrow, checking them tonight will give us results to compare against the lynch tomorrow and give us a jump start on figuring out sanities.

We don't need sacrifice lynches. Just use the checks as a rotating doctor.

If we wanted to push our luck, we could do two groups of 6.

I don’t understand - can you clarify what you mean? What’s your idea?

We're not lynching the designated "target tonight player" tomorrow.

Wait, what? We're not? I thought that was the plan?

Though I do agree with you the posting got better

after 11 pages...

Reading more.. until lunch is over.

You don’t target the designated lynch target with a doctor. You target someone you’re pretty sure is town. Same with the pseudo doc.

Then what is even the point. Our roles are useless.

This is essentially mountainous.

Back to work for me. I couldn't concentrate on what I was reading so I'll have to read it again later.

JINGLE. READ THIS DANGIT.

READ IT RIGHT NOW. LOOK WHAT I FOUND.

Jingle, I need you to walk me through you hydra read, please. And I don't want any of that "meta, trust me" bs. Give me tangible, reasonable, provable reasons. SHOW me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

yah well i'm irritated. apparently there's TWO ALTS who are being dicks and playing mind games with me that i dont fucking care for. so I'M GOING TO GO AWAY AND PLAY MINECRAFT AND MORROWIND FOR THE WEEKEND. and when i come back on monday maybe i'll feel more like dealing with stupid shit.

two alts? I get pun, but who is the other?

eDDIE

[EspeciallyTheLies]

We use a different person, not the hydra as a target. We can read the Creature head and make that slot conf!town (or conf!scum). Creature signs his posts as per town wincon. I can read Creature well enough to know if they fake Creature posts. I get it, they're annoying, but our wincon isn't lynch the annoying slots.

Penguin townie. ETL and Pun probably has a scum. Jingle is townie but I have no clue how to read him. No read on Mulch yet. Why is Titus a wagon exactly?

1) schadd - idk who pun is, boon? me: boon wouldnt give a read of confidence on me this early, especially without a vote (in a rxn test)
2) schadd - i kinda think that slot is town, me: nobody should be able to read me that quickly but ya its kinda town
3) schadd - fos etl, me: agree
4) me - scum in etl pun fosho, schadd ye

It is "explained".

NO??????

HEY GUYS, I'M THE BEST BECAUSE I'M THE BEST. SO GOOD EXPLANATION, I'M SO GOOD.

More importantly,

I explained why I was voting her.

You

literally

did not.

VOTE: eddie

We use a different person, not the hydra as a target. We can read the Creature head and make that slot conf!town (or conf!scum). Creature signs his posts as per town wincon. I can read Creature well enough to know if they fake Creature posts. I get it, they're annoying, but our wincon isn't lynch the annoying slots.

Penguin townie. ETL and Pun probably has a scum. Jingle is townie but I have no clue how to read him. No read on Mulch yet. Why is Titus a wagon exactly?

VOTE: etl

These are all the posts "explaining" your vote.

Liar.

This is scum fixating on a random minute point. ETL genuinely believed we didn't explain our vote, and they're extrapolating that into making us their mislynch target / push. It

literally

doesn't make us scum if it was true, and town etl is

literally

too good to be that daft. Stop AtE spamming and play the game.

this doesn't even make sense you turd and dont fucking tell me what to do. like who the fuck are you? you don't know jack shit about me. to say "they genuinely believed X" and then try to say the subsequent vote is a scum move MAKES ZERO SENSE.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Talk to me about Gork then. Still a townread? Any particularly townie posts I should see?

I dunno. It was a feeling. I know I've played with Gork before. I know Gork is good as scum. I know I can't really read him so I go by "the usual" meaning how I would read someone I don't know, and based on that I thought his responses and thoughts about the game state in general were more likely to come from engaged town thinking about gamesolving rather than from scum.

In short, gut, mostly. At the moment, yes sstill a town read. I haven't reevaluated yet as I haven't felt the need to do so.

pedit: jj? what jj game?? also, saying "i voted because x is scum" is not a sufficient explanation, and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one here who thinks that.

give more. denying everyone information for the sake of calling someone a "raging pile of annoying AtE" is a really lame copout. also fuck off.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if you want to stop being a <redacted> and play mafia, explain why I'm scum? For someone so fixated on that you haven't actually done that.

i dont know if you're scum or not. but i think your play stinks. it makes more sense to me that scum would make such bad posts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

jingle i think this is the first time my reputation has actually preceded me. it's one thing to play with people you've played with before but another to play with someone who knows you but has never played a game with you at all.

i dont know whether to be flattered or annoyed.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if pun is actually mastin that would make some sense. i'd need confirmation on that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if you want to stop being a <redacted> and play mafia, explain why I'm scum? For someone so fixated on that you haven't actually done that.

i dont know if you're scum or not. but i think your play stinks. it makes more sense to me that scum would make such bad posts.

Would you like to highlight which posts are such bad, friend?

the ones where you try to pass off "one in pun etl is scum" as an "explanation" of your vote and stubbornly trying to stick to that as some cheeky point as though it's anywhere close to enough for anyone.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

this post is top notch btw

thanks i thought so too

[EspeciallyTheLies]

jingle you're a butthead. why couldn't you just let me be mad for a while

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. I agree with you on TN. And being that she's the only one I've actually noticed signing the posts, those are the only posts I really care about. Also why I backed off trying to rally their lynch. Plus they're less annoying now, and hopefully they remain that way. I don't know which posts are Who posts, and tbh I don't remember what Who is like.

Fine. Who's scum?

p-edit snork is a good one

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Clearly you don't know me at /all/, which is fine. The obvious read between the lines answer is my hydra partner wanted pressure on you. I'm really fuckin good at applying pressure. I showed Schadd scumleaning you and me agreeing, I showed me saying Pun and you contains a scum which is obviously because of your interactions, and I showed us saying Pun is townish (hesitantly). That's plenty of reason to vote you. Is that better? I'm sarcastic as fuck, but I don't want to ruin your game experience, especially because I was super happy to join a game with cheet/etl/jingle/superhydra-mulch-posting-antics/goodmod.

Yes that's better. You're wrong, but that's better. Thanks.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

can i have a link to the funny bert neighbor game you were talking about?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=59618 - It was a Lying Cat, but I think sthar8 made one post.

omg that was such a good game.

dude. I just iso'd GG and LC and legit thought me/AP were town and you were scum and the flips at the end

so bad

BUT THIS SOUNDS SO GOOD DOESN'T IT? what the hell happened to me lol....

Subject: Mini 1619 - Antihero: REDEMPTION [GAME OVER]

LC is scum and I have proof.

Bert neighborized us and we got the PT last night. LC claims to be a Gunsmith and checked us N1 with a no gun result. yet on D2 he pretends not to know anything new

in the neighborhood.

after confirming his targets/results to Bert, both Bert and I ask him about this. he says he didn't crumb anything in the thread because he could do it in the hood except he didn't. in fact he acted like he was paranoid and even less sure of us on d2 than on d1.

then there is the Anatole wagon. and the Thor wagon. and the flubber wagon he hammered. and the wifom about the nk.

oh yeah and did I mention he claims to have targeted Thor n2 and said he was going to target Bert last night despite being neighbors with him since n1.

oh yeah and his biggest scum reads on d1 were ns and jiffy/Thor. but he checked us instead. not his biggest scum reads. not his new unknown neighbor.

and did I mention he claimed

a fucking gunsmith?

VOTE: Lying Cat

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@eddie

, i have a bunch of okay townleans and a big pile of mehreads.
and im not really running with enough time/energy to seriously try to parse people in this game via metadives/isodives.

im down to just wagon the shit out of people and hopefully get a better grasp on the gamestate by doing so!

vote: nosferatu

porkens and a50 are also okay alternatives on this front!
[titus and punreader are also in the mehpile but i dont think wagoning them will make them easier to read]

I strongly feel porkens to be town. convince me why i'm wrong...

I could definitely be down for a nos lynch.

I'm still where I was. all the recent posting is noise to me. im not saying its bad noise, but thats where im at.

can you talk to me about your current vote though please?

Fine. Who's scum?

I actually don't know.

I'm betting scum is split between the people agreeing with my plan and the people fighting it to keep the nonscumhunting discussion going, but I don't know who in the agreement camp is likely as a suspect and everyone in the not agreeing with me plan is a likely suspect.

my first instinct would be to suspect those being nonconforming with the obviously smart plan, but also the fact that openly doing so is not really helpful for scum leans me towards looking at those who have said they're on board without discussing the plan at all, or those who have not acknowledged the plan at all.

I could see Titus, given that she knows both of us are perfectly willing to work with people and she hasn't made an attempt to do so.

She used to be pretty proud of her scum game and her town game was full of stubborn "i'm right, you're wrong" passion. but then she changed. the last couple games i've played with her were so... vanilla.. i dont even remember if she was town or not. when is the last time you've played with her?

One of pun/Eddie pocketing me makes too much sense to discount, although pun warning me about letting Eddie pocket me means they're probably not both scum trying to pocket me.

noted. which feels more likely scum to you?

The lurkers are troubling me, as are the reads on lurkers.

which ones?

Gork seems active, but is a nonpresence in the thread. Given that most of my interaction with him is sitechat/modding/him telling me that he's a bad player, I'm willing to trust your gut there for now.

read his iso. he's one of the more engaged players here.

Nos keeps trying to creep into my town pile without having actually done anything worth putting her there over, which is giving me flashbacks to Awoo and making me think that might be a blindspot.

I think nos is probably scum. pretty much for the same reasons gork stated.

But as of right now? I want the people who haven't explicitly said they will at least humor my plan for night one to do so so that we can table all setup spec until tomorrow at the earliest.

that would be nice, but even if they all do, it's more than likely at least half the people are gonna do whatever the fuck they want to do anyway because they think they know better.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

AP's epic gunsmith claim

omg... that game will live on forever. best game i have ever played on this site ever.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

yes ok

VOTE: nos

[EspeciallyTheLies]

which ones?

Ging, PP and A50.

ginngie is a firm town read for me

agreed on A50 and penguin.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The fact that she's not analyzing her own wagon and using the hydra to excuse her lack of contribution makes me think more and more that she genuinely is scum this game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i acknowledge that you said words to me that i have no further interest in saying words about

this is how i feel about pun's posts.

Oh really?

Talk to me.

Who's refusing to talk,

now

?

3. Please engage me (but also others) more.

Who's refusing to engage

now

?

If you have specific questions for me, ask them.

Who's not answering questions

now

?

*sigh*

I haven't refused to do any of these things. I just don't like you or your style and I'm not really interested in picking apart your posts to fabricate some kind of dialog with someone I don't wish to have a dialog with. Like, it's so forced. You want me to come up with some content about your content (how narcississtic really...) but see the thing is that I don't really care what you have to say.

Sorry.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: Nosferatu

yes ok
VOTE: nos

If you were wondering, this is a pun-driven counterwagon to lynching the actual pun, Titus.

Nosferatu I realize is a bit batty, but Nos's play this game is fairly bog-standard for Nos. Nosferatu is always mislynch bait, and yet is not known to be mislynch bait, making Nos an easy target. I do admit my Nosferatu read is to some extent reliant on Nos leeching off of KidAm's towncred, but while I cannot reliably say this is Nosferatu as a specific alignment, I can say this behavior from Nosferatu isn't indicative of pun so much as it is indicative of Nosferatu.

You're either a very bad player or you are scum. There, that's my dialog with you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'd like to at least have a chance to interact with Titus more before I solidify my read on her.

Titus, please get in here and talk to me

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Good morning.

A50, I am defending no one.

*Happy Scumday!*

Hi Titus. ♥ Who are your three strongest reads, in either direction?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

TITUS

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: Titus

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Gorkington

(1) Draynth ,

Titus

(4)

Ginngie , Stop Getting Banned Again

, Punreader ,

Porkens ,

Nosferatu

(3)

Gorkington

, eddie , EspeciallyTheLies ,

Ginngie

(1) Almost50 ,
Punreader (2)

Nosferatu , Titus ,

<<< pun probably town then.

Not Voting (2) PenguinPower , Jingle ,

If Titus actually scum, high probability Nos partner, with one of these as third [A50, Draynth]

Game. Solved.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

HOWEVER... if Titus town, I could discount the votes of...

SGBA, Pun

NOT Ginngie's. NOT Porkens'.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

what was it I did that made me a town read?

I've mostly been lurker status because of finals and moving out of my dorm lol

So like I don't exactly know what I did

This post made me severely doubt my read.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Current reads:

MOST TOWN

Gork - definitely
Punreader - must be
SGBA - ♥ tn

Jingle - ?♥?

Porkens - higher if scumTitus, lower if townTitus
Ginngie - higher if scumTitus, lower if townTitus

-maybe town?-

Mulch/Draynth? Sure -- revise as possible partner if scumTitus. No longer think so.

-nulls-

Penguin - ?????? PoE
schadd_/Eddie - I could see this being scum

Almost50 ?????? PoE

Nos
Titus

MOST SCUM

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Anybody know Eddie? Is he a busbusser?

Not you Pun because I still don't like you.

p-edit: I had you as firm town, which you clearly knew based on the post you made.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

gut, tone.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Alright.

The more townread I am, I get more complacent

Scumreads or doubts keep me engaged

That's good.

What are your top 3 strongest reads?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You and Jimgle town
Titus scum

Ok, that's a good start. Would you mind elaborating on your Titus read? I wasn't able to understand it fully from your ISO.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

PenguinPower is online. And not posting

here

.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You and Jimgle town
Titus scum

Ok, that's a good start. Would you mind elaborating on your Titus read? I wasn't able to understand it fully from your ISO.

Basically, i think the route she went, the tirade against the hydra is not only easy but based on two things that don’t actially matter, thus, not true scum hunting that can come from Titus.

The first, being that she wants to policy lynch the hydra because it spams out the game. This is false accusation as you can tell about the game state that this isn’t true and has held a healthy conversation

The next would be that her other reason was because they used the word cunt. That doesn’t determine alignment and is just an excuse to push someone when no valid reason has surfaced.

So that’s where my read comes from

Yeah, 100% agreed with you on these. Thanks.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hi Gork

[EspeciallyTheLies]

p-edit:

I strongly feel porkens to be town. convince me why i'm wrong...

its more that i dont have a townread on them and have no idea how to read them from their posting?
would probably be more productive for you to convince me why porkens is town?

I missed this p-edit from you.

For me, primarily the discussion about the plan I had with him between post 363 and 383. Mostly gut but it really felt like it came from someone who was considering what the best move for town would be, regardless of whether I thought he was right or not, and then continuing to do so.

I don't particularly like the way he voted Titus as I don't follow the trajectory there, but hope to discuss with him soon.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do you have any experience with Eddie, A50, or like.. Draynth?

p-edit:

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Titus, Ginngie, Keely, A50, and some of SGAB have a nonzero amount of games with me, and I believe Jingle knows me from watching games too. That is not the right kind of question to sort me with though.

I want their impressions with their experience supporting them. I'm entitled to sort people the way I choose to sort them. Being good at mafia is also about knowing when someone else is better and using their knowledge to help you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Though I do appreciate the insight into who has played with you - thank you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Who the heck is keely?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

oh. why?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

hm. weird. what's your read on jingle, eddie?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

this guessing nonsense isn't relevant.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i summon thee

Hi.

Finally.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Penguin, what are your thoughts on the current wagons?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'd rather lynch Punreader.

Ok, why? Are you thinking Titus is town? Why do you feel more strongly about pun? Who is your strongest town read?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey gork what games have we played together?

Same question for Nos - I'm pretty sure we've played at least once in the same game but I can't find it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I have no feelings on Titus right now.

None at all? She's totally, 100% null?

Mulch/Draynth strongest town read right now.

Why?

Also, what about punreader?

Why do you feel more strongly about pun?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Yes.

No.

Already answered.

I need more about your read on pun, please. When I ask "why do you feel strongly about punreader", saying "i feel nothing about the current wagon" isn't sufficient.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am very skeptical of people who town read me D1 (outside a very small set of players), especially when they don't provide a reason as to why they town read me when asked.

It was unclear this was about Pun. So, that's the only reason? If pun is town, who would you consider after him?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that.

Ok. Why aren't you voting for him?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

A50 looks great in VCA where one scum is off the main wagon and choosing a vanity wagon

Who are the 2 on?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that.

Ok. Why aren't you voting for him?

Hi. Still catching up on what I’ve missed.

We’ll talk later.

We will.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't want a hammer prior to the last few confirmations of adherence to the plan. I'll be back for real thought in a few hours.

You're more concerned with your plan than anything else.

You'd hammer an IC if we caved to you.

My wagon, the sole wagon all day, is zero accountability nonsense.

This is complete BS Titus. What a lame excuse to not do anything constructive at all.

Hang.

I'm ready y'all.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

your conversation is apparently the only one it killed. everyone else has managed more actual thoughts than you. give it up.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

A for effort, Nos, but still wrong.

I'm at the lake. Stealing some wifi in town but no service at the cottage so I won't be here til Monday. Bye.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also TIL reevaluating and admitting when wrong is "a scummy process"

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Prod received. Sorry. was away all weekend and caught a flat up in the wilderness so that's what I was dealing with yesterday - had no chance to get any quality time online.

skimmed. not much to add tbh. gork, re: porkens, jingle actually summed up my initial thoughts quite well:

Porken's setup failures and misunderstandings came across as genuine to me, and the way he was wrong

my confidence has since wavered only due to the titus wagon and the hopping on/off and none of that made any sense to me. it read like impatience.

anything else directed at me that i missed? i do have some work to do today but my plan is to go through the posts since friday a bit more thoroughly and reevaluate how i feel about the wagons right now. update my reads list if necessary.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jingle who is the townread that's been absent?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

how did porkens wagon happen?

i'd vote there. i'm ready for this day to end.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This is me not self voting.

ok...?

did you ever answer me about titus?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

how did porkens wagon happen?

i'd vote there. i'm ready for this day to end.

actually i take this back based on most recent porkens posts. bleh. i forgot a lot about this game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I would not vote:
SGBA
Jingle
Gork
Ginngie

I would vote:
Titus - bleh this slot really shouldn't live past D1 in its current condition.
Nos
Eddie - not as strong as Nos and thinking might be a style conflict issue actually, but not sure yet.

The rest are meh... This is about where I stand right now.

VOTE: Nos

p-edit: oh, ok. gotcha. is that a trustable read for me? because I don't really have much on either mulch or draynth.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Spoiler: all porkens votes

wat is the plan

Target Stop Getting Banned.
Claim result ASAP after daystart.
Fill in chart AFTER everyone has claimed.
Either split investigations or reevaluate depending on random distribution/possible sanities.

I'm fine with this fyi

VOTE: Porkens

Not Voting (3)PenguinPower , Jingle ,

Porkens

both of you need to start using your votes and taking more meaningful stances.
pretty not okay to be sitting on a no vote right now.

VOTE: eddie

It's omgus

okay if youre going to be doing this right now
you should be hardcasing eddie.
theres three days left until deadline.
there should be way more of a sense of urgency here.

@a50

, hbd im condensing your draynthpoints for you because the wallpost makes it harder to digest them.

i) he never followed up on a question when a50 didnt answer it
ii) he questioned someone else's scumread on someone he was also scumreading
iii) he voted someone in the middle of his readlist

@draynth

, want to see you respond to this.

IMPORTANT:

Scum!Titus defends her scum partners by necessity. Scum!Titus will always find a way to launch a counter wagon to one on herself or on a buddy of hers.

Conclusion: Titus is very likely town here.

why is titus trying to push sgba not her trying to create a counterwagon on herself? whats the distinction between her doing that here and her doing that in a scumgame?

and frankly, ive seen titus break that meta intentionally before as scum [ie: ive seen her bus scummates]. i feel like this isnt taking into account a lot of factors, including whether titus has the time or effort to actually play the game the way she would be wanting to?

Target Stop Getting Banned.
Claim result ASAP after daystart.
Fill in chart AFTER everyone has claimed.
Either split investigations or reevaluate depending on random distribution/possible sanities.

are you townreading the hydra right now?
because i kind of feel like your plan falls apart if we arent all consensus reading the hydra as town at this point.

@everyone in the game

theres three days left in this game.
i want everyone to take a hard stance on porkens, titus and punreader.

[AND GIVE REASONS.]

and either vote in that pool or argue really fucking hard for why we should be expanding the lynchpool right now, or im going to assume that youre sidelining intentionally.
please and thank you.

for where im at, porkens vote is just completely useless and i dont feel like theyre honestly trying to get eddie lynched at all right now, which feels especially awful given how little time is left in the day.

vote: porkens

hoping to get a titus ISOdive done this aft, but as of right now im willing to vote titus for deadline if porkens towns it up.

Hydra and Eddie scum..

*sees Punreader is counter wagon*

Fuck.

VOTE: Porkens

Not sure if I even trust A50 as it could be wking me but I TR punreader.

@Penguin why the vote?

Its gork and at least that head of the stupid hydra

If you don't mind me saying so, that's not particularly convincing.
Please iso dive me, I signed all but one of my posts with "~tn5421". The one I didn't was where I blind posted the "Nice Jingle" 100% Orange Juice card.
Show me that you have a reason for this read other than "lol because I say so".

If you're town, I want to work with you to lynch the actual scum.

~tn5421

You are scared.

Its better if i vote here.
VOTE: SGBA

If anyone here is scared it's you. This is blatant scum bull, especially in context with your previous behavior. You don't want to town? Fine. Get out.

VOTE: Porkens

~tn5421

VOTE: Porkens

Draynth

- I don't really follow the trajectory here? He was poking at Gorkington primarily until Porkens voted for Titus, which he later says "still fine with a porkens lynch though *shrug*" which suggests that he's not feeling very strongly about it.

Gork

- this vote seems like.. a convenience vote? I don't really get it. Titus appears to be his preferred lynch for today, which I'm inclined to agree is the right move.

Titus

- what on earth is post 1022? I don't even.. Is she actually doing things now? Why is she voting Porkens? Actually post 1024 looks a lot better than her earlier posts, and kind of thinking maybe she does need to sub out if she's legitimately not motivated to even play regardless of alignment...?

SGBA

- tn's vote here is the only one of the whole wagon I can actually follow. This is a shit wagon yall... especially given the last ditch effort to inject information pre-death by porkens.

PenguinPower

- whole ISO is garbage tbh... kept asking for input and got told they would be catching up and we'd talk later, and did not.

VOTE: PENGUINPOWER

Guys this is legitimately scum and we need to lynch it rtfn.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jingle I will not accept anything less than a penguin vote.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

To everyone:

if you're not going to vote for Penguin, you need to convince me why they are town. Not why another person is a better lynch, but

why Penguin is town

because if you have no good argument, I expect your vote to move there ASAP.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Penguin -

yes, absolutely, 100%

Ginnie -

eh... not likely.

Gork -

no

Hydra -

no

Eddie -

maybe

At least 2 scrum in there.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

TITUS

come back please. Talk to me more about Eddie.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

PP's everything has been pretty blech, but all of my townreads said town there, so I'm guessing this is a Jingle-tunnel and ignoring my gut.

I haven't seen that. Lynch it Jingle. It's bad.

Nos, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense as an eddie partner if Eddie is scum. Her contributions sum up to a wall case on pun that looked like something fabricated, and a spurt of activity every time someone talks about suspecting her. There's a ton of tacit approval for the wagon without the wagon actually showing up. Pretty much my only reservation here is pun's statement that she's scummy regardless of alignment, and pun hasn't come back to talk about that recently, although I may have dreamed asking for that.

I could see Nos, Eddie, PP. Do you?

I more and more think Pun is solidly town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'd say it's highly trustable. I can't point to why though, for reasons. If someone who can corroborate the reasons other than the mod replaces into the game, I'll let you guys know (This would be Ellibereth, beeboy, Alisae, fferyllt, Ether, or Mathblade, fwiw). If I become able to link to places where I've talked about the ability it'll happen. Until then, I'd say it's somewhere between my ability to read you and my ability to read aphix. (I think you are more likely to be able to snow me, because you at least know that I can read you fairly well. Mulch should have had no idea at the beginning of the game.)

Ok, I'll take that. I think this game is pretty well solved tbh; I'm feeling fantastic about it.

Of the 3 I mentioned in my last post, {Nos, Eddie, PP}, I think Eddie is the only maybe there, and could be replaced with Titus possibly. Way more confident on PP today, Nos tomorrow.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm sorry, what is "it"?

I asked him about the read on Mulch as I'm using "my townreads are calling it town" to read the slot since I can't really tell what's going on there.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Is it genuine on Jingle's part?

I'm townreading Jingle, so my answer is going to be "yes".

hey keely wanna 2v2 jingle and etl

The fact that both of us are town makes this post really really bad for you, Eddie.

but I think etl is trying to pocket you so probably not in that case

Stop fearmongering.

Nos>PP>Titus>Porkens

Preferred lynch order, atm, btw, I'll compromise onto PP if it's viable, but I think Nos is a better chance for scum/information.

For info, probably, maybe. But I'm more certain of PenguinPower being scum and I'm not moving my vote unless something seriously compelling happens. So if you want a scum lynch today, it's gonna be PP.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm not quite sure what the VC looks like

VOTE: Nos

Penguin is pretty close to confscum.

To everyone:

if you're not going to vote for Penguin, you need to convince me why they are town. Not why another person is a better lynch, but

why Penguin is town

because if you have no good argument, I expect your vote to move there ASAP.

You're not voting Penguin, and since I'm assuming you read this, I'm also going to assume you think Penguin is town. If that's not true, then vote Penguin.

My thoughts are scum = {PP, Nos, and either Eddie or Titus}

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Garbage tbh.

Real talk: Because you haven't pinged me as town and have voted people I like for town. Now that you and ETL are trying to build a last minute lynch on a fairly inactive slot, it makes that light read stronger.

I started the wagon on you. I continuously asked you for engagement. You continually dodged. Now that I've had enough of your shit, you OMGUS my vote on you. Great deflection.

Explain why anything you've done this game is not lynch-worthy.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: unvote
VOTE: titus

Ok.

You're not making it easy to not think you are scum. I honestly don't have a clue wtf you are doing rn.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am now more interested in lynching Porkens than Titus, fwiw.

don't care. vote penguin.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm legitimately interested in how porkens play dropped so quick so fast

You mean like, the attitude/tone shift? Like how he went from interested and probably townie to weird as fuck vote hopping jellyfish?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that.

Ok. Why aren't you voting for him?

Hi. Still catching up on what I’ve missed.

We’ll talk later.

We will.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Porkens: If you're town, you're really making it hard for me to argue against your lynch. 'nough said.

@ETL: If I'm not mistaking; you're the only one currently voting PP. Furthermore, you do agree Nos is also scum, so why not join the wagon on her and leave PP for tomorrow?

@Everyone voting Porkens: My main problem there is that Draynth is on the wagon (actually leading it) and he never looked like he wanted to jump off it. I simply am not going to vote with my biggest SR.

eh. the read on nos isn't as strong as the read on penguin especially considering the last few posts.

i'm extremely confused by porkens behavior. and titus for that matter as well. my reads are devolving. this game is a mess in my head and i am losing sight of what any of it means.

pedit. well there it is i guess. if i'm dead tomorrow lynch titus or jingle.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: Porkens

I just can't get my mind off of the whole "ill be good" posting

lasted like 3 posts and then devolved into what seems to be like advanced shitposting idk

"I think Porkens is being too survivalistic, let me hammer him before people can discuss whether I'm a viable wagon in a plurality setup."

yes probably true. i'm sorry i should have gone with nos maybe but bleh

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Everyone voting Porkens: My main problem there is that Draynth is on the wagon (actually leading it) and he never looked like he wanted to jump off it. I simply am not going to vote with my biggest SR.

Bussing exists

you can be wrong

If someone is bussing

follow them

if they are town

hey cool you still got scum



A player's alignment has no ties to who is voting who.

disagree. vca is a thing

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Porkens: If you're town, you're really making it hard for me to argue against your lynch. 'nough said.

@ETL: If I'm not mistaking; you're the only one currently voting PP. Furthermore, you do agree Nos is also scum, so why not join the wagon on her and leave PP for tomorrow?

@Everyone voting Porkens: My main problem there is that Draynth is on the wagon (actually leading it) and he never looked like he wanted to jump off it. I simply am not going to vote with my biggest SR.

eh. the read on nos isn't as strong as the read on penguin especially considering the last few posts.

i'm extremely confused by porkens behavior. and titus for that matter as well. my reads are devolving. this game is a mess in my head and i am losing sight of what any of it means.

pedit. well there it is i guess. if i'm dead tomorrow lynch titus or jingle.

Can't do that, THE PLAN requires us, the megahydra, to die.

~tn5421

no you're town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

To everyone:

if you're not going to vote for Penguin, you need to convince me why they are town. Not why another person is a better lynch, but

why Penguin is town

because if you have no good argument, I expect your vote to move there ASAP.

I mean he's done virtually no scumhunting, but he also hasn't been here and isn't trying to hide his active lurkiness

I like that he acknowledges his lack of participation but without just lampshading it like scum usually do, which is why I have him at nulltown

why is he confirmed scum, he just sounds nullscum from your description

no his iso is trash. it's easy to be like "yeah i'm lazy" i'm not gonna townread someone for stating the obvious.

pedit no especially if porkens flips town. nos is dead.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i'm not giving them a free town lynch tn it's not happening. we all check you tonight and see what happens tomorrow post-flips.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

wait i actually did not know he was in hammer range i thought everyone jumped ship to penguin

it had been mentioned several times i was the only one voting pp

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i got scum on sgba.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Gork votes Porkens first, and remains the only vote on porkens for a long while, until the Titus wagon gains quite a bit of momentum, and then...
Draynth, Gork, Titus all hop on the Porkens wagon, followed by Ginngie, SGBA, PenguinPower and Nos.

Votecount 1.Final

PenguinPower (1)

EspeciallyTheLies,

Porkens (7)

Draynth, Gorkington, Titus, Ginngie, Stop Getting Banned Again, PenguinPower, Nosferatu, L-0

Titus (3)

Punreader, eddie, Porkens,

Nosferatu (2)

Jingle, Almost50,

Spoiler: GORK

Gork because he had a persistent scumread there, I suppose, though the read was never explained, and in 631 he says he can't even remember why he was voting him.

porkens is an enigma and i dont really remember why i felt they were scummy anymore.

but then the next mention of porkens isn't for nearly another hundred posts, in 788 where he votes Nos, and says

porkens and a50 are also okay alternatives on this front!

When I told him I strongly felt that Porkens was town and asked him to convince why I was wrong, he said simply that it was because Porkens just wasn't a townread... and then asked me to convince why I thought Porkens was town (which I did). He then appeals to Porkens to use his vote and be more productive. And asks people to give a hard stance on porkens, titus, and punreader with reasons, and votes porkens again, because

dont feel like theyre honestly trying to get eddie lynched at all right now, which feels especially awful given how little time is left in the day.
<snip>
as of right now im willing to vote titus for deadline if porkens towns it up.

i think it should be obvious that i like porkens lynch more than a titus lynch.

Based on the previous posts and notes here, this was not obvious to me at all...

He also asks for input on Porkens from tn, and eddie. and me. and jingle. and Nos. And argues that Porkens is scummier than Titus... I think. 1073

conclusion

Um... so... I don't have a clue what's going on here. Trajectory makes no sense. Appealing to a bunch of different people, two of which were supposedly "hard scumreads" for input on what became his top scumread (???), none of this makes any sense under the scope.

I think I need to take a long, hard look at Gork overall

Spoiler: Draynth

Apparently didn't catch up properly until 667 posts into the thread. Lists Porkens as town, and qualifies the list with "skimming through all 27 pages at 1am". Two posts directed at Porkens asking why PP and Titus were scum, 715. AFAICT, Porkens never responds. The next mention of Porkens, and in fact the very next post Draynth makes, 830, is a vote for Porkens. No explanation really. Last mention is 1096 saying he's not sure what's going on but that he's still fine with the porkens lynch, and adds a *shrug*. Aware enough to call out L-1 on the wagon.

conclusion

No fucking clue. This actually looks more towny than Gorks though, I will say.

Spoiler: Titus

Votes Porkens for the first time in 1022, no prior mention really. What's odd is that she starts the post saying the the Hydra and Eddie are scum. Eddie, who Porkens was saying was scum most of the game. And then votes Porkens.

The last and only other post mentioning Porkens is 1024 where she makes sort of a reads list.

Right now
ETL Gork <- Do not step to them
Jingle A50 <--- Town but watch, minor reservations
Punreader <--- Spewed by Eddie

Porkens <--- Best vote of options
Nos < - Major Inconsistency
Eddie/Hydra die

conclusion

So... This doesn't really look great and the vote doesn't really make sense. There wasn't any real explanation given other than the fact that there was a Porkens wagon at the time of her vote and her preferred lynches weren't happening. In a game with plurality, not sure if this makes sense from scum but also not sure it makes sense for town either...

Spoiler: Ginngie

In 1026, Ginngie states "dont know why I should like Porkens but I do" and then says he's willing to hammer pun and porkens. He was voting Titus at the time. His next post (about a page or so later) is an unvote, saying "I always hammer". Porkens votes the hydra and Ginngie calls it a vanity wagon. Votes in 1089. Encourages Jingle to go ahead and vote Porkens, then realizes it's a plurality game. And that's about it, besides saying he thinks Draynth is bussing Porkens.

conclusion

Honestly, I don't see scum forgetting it's a plurality game. He was consistent throughout on his read, so I don't see this as a scum vote.

Spoiler: SGBA

Townreads Porkens (a maybe) in 418, along with Gork, myself, and KidAmn/??? Whoever replaced that slot. Calls for Titus lynch in 519. Asks me for advice on reading porkens in 1057

(sorry I missed that - just saw it now. Didn't realize it was directed at me. I honestly didn't click all the links in that post.... and I guess the response would be moot at this point)

Porkens moves to neutral read in 1061 and tn tells Gork he will take a look at Porkens a few posts later when he asks tn to vote for him. As promised, a PBPA is the very next post from tn, in 1076. His conclusion is that Porkens is a good compromise lynch, in lieu of, I'm assuming, Titus. But then tells Porkens that he's "a weak townlean ... despite how tilted i was by the end of my pbpa". Appeals to Porkens to do something, anything, productive, saying he'd like to work with him if he's town. Chides Porkens for continuing to be a jellyfish. When Porkens fails to meet the expectation, SGBA (tn) votes Porkens in 1092.

conclusion

Overall, a very, very natural progression, and I echo the sentiments re: if town, he should town it up and stop acting like a goofball. This, too, is not a scum vote.

Spoiler: PenguinPower

Blind votes Porkens in 1099. That's it. That is literally the only mention of Porkens in the whole ISO besides trying to force a "Porkens/ETL" pre-flip associative in 1154. There was zero interaction with Porkens AT ALL prior to this vote, which I can only assume exists because the wagon existed. And to be honest, the entire ISO is complete trash, continually talking about "catching up" but never seeming to do so, and it all reads as pretty false delaying tactics, especially given the vote at the end and then suddenly they are aware enough to

finally

discuss things? It's like the only reason they voted is because I realized how legitimately scummy the slot was, and fought back out of self-preservation.

conclusion

Hands down, this is a scum vote.

Spoiler: Nosferatu

Lists Jingle and Porkens as top tier town reads in 518. Maintains that Porkens is town in 963. And again lists Porkens as a top town read in 1008, and admits he hasn't considered Porkens as scum ever at 1041, when questioned by Punreader. In 1166, he questions wtf happened to Porkens play, and confirms what he means when I asked. Then Nos appears to look into Porkens vote history and comments on how it looks:

he acts like a leashed sk or some shit idek how to feel about it

like is he town that really doesn't want to die or scum that doesn't give a shit

Then votes Porkens in 1179, which was the hammer.

conclusion

Honestly... I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion but this seriously doesn't look scum-motivated at all... I'm holding this part of my post until I can see who pushes that as a reason to lynch Nos, because I strongly believe that outside my locktown reads, that is where we will catch scum.

PenguinPower is definitely the scum on the Porkens wagon, with a middling-to-strong probability that Titus is as well. SO, this means there is at least one off the wagon in {Jingle, Almost50, eddie, Punreader}. I took a look at their votes and vote progression as well.

Spoiler: Jingle

Votes Gork. Says Mulch/Draynth is town. Votes Pun, saying he was planning on voting Porkens but misread something (?) and changed his mind. Posts reads list with Porkens in top town tier, votes Titus. Unvotes... don't know why. Says he doesn't agree with the wagon due to the company - "3 null reads, tn, and an absentee townread", votes Nos. Criticizes Nos for the hammer.

conclusion

I was afraid this analysis was going to reveal Jingle to be scum, but it didn't. Maintaining my townread there.

Spoiler: Almost 50

Votes Ginngie for RVS. Then votes Draynth

37 pages later

. Discusses his lack of activity and provides his thoughts and reads after a catch up, including explanations and examples. Criticizes Eddie's vote on Porkens and asks for explanation of Eddie's flop between Pun and Porkens. Criticizes Porkens for voting Titus after he told people this was "definitely town Titus" because of his meta knowledge.

Let's lynch someone who is less likely to be shot by scum if they're Town.

in 1037. Last reads list has Titus, Pun and Porkens as top town reads, with Nos and Draynth at the bottom. Votes Nos, qualifying it with "I'm not sure what the VC looks like" and last post chides Porkens for not acting townie enough so he can argue against the lynch. Really odd wording to me.

conclusion

Anyone can post a catch up to look townie. I really don't like many of the later posts in this ISO. I'm calling this a big possibility for the one-off-the-wagon scum.

Spoiler: schad/Eddie

Is schad even playing this anymore? Votes SGBA in RVS. Calls Penguin town in 34. Naked vote on a50 with no explanation in 317. Naked vote on me in 653, again with no explanation. When questioned, got aggressive and defensive. Asking pun to "drop it" re: being able to spot his scumgame is fucking weird as well. Pisses me off for a bit and backs off when I bite back. Follows gork's vote onto Nos in 791, which implies to me he's townreading Gork? Then decides Nos is town, and votes Punreader. Lists Nos, Penguin as top town tier, followed by Gork, the hydra and draynth. Pun, titus and myself are his top scum reads as of 1000. Does clarify that his strongest reads are Nos and Penguin. Flips again to say he thinks Pun is town and votes Porkens, but says I'm the best best for Scum, and votes Titus.

conclusion

meh. I wanted this to be scum, but it's not, and I honestly don't remember why I thought so... this needs to be reviewed in more depth. null to nulltown.

Spoiler: Punreader

Votes Gork in his first post full of nonsense "puns" that aren't funny nor clever, 294. Votes Mulch because his reads aren't accurate enough to be town.... ???? Posts a readslist - Mulch, Gork, Eddie/schadd as scum, and SGBA, Jingle as town. Decides to vote Titus in 537, and gives his thoughts re: her meta. Continues to call me scum. Says Nos is town. Builds a case for scumEddie, starting around 979. Calls Porkens "loosely a townread", and Titus is his strongest scumread.

conclusion

I have no fucking clue. Gut says.. not scum.

Overall Conclusion of Analysis

Draynth: Position on the wagon indicates not likely scum but presence there does not. Null, but more towny in ISO than Gork re: their Porkens vote.

NULL-TOWN

Gork: No idea

NULL

Titus: Vote doesn't make sense, no explanation given, "compromises" on Porkens.

NULL-SCUM

Ginngie: Forgets it's a plurality game, read was consistent throughout ISO.

TOWN

SGBA: Natural progression of Porkens read, very clear though process and trajectory.

TOWN

PenguinPower: No mention or interaction of/with Porkens until adding vote to existing wagon when votes began shifting off Porkens.

HARD SCUM

Nosferatu: Natural progression of read, natural reaction to the reaction to his hammer.

TOWN

Jingle: Another natural reads progression, I like the interactions with others. Wanted to be paranoid, looked hard for evidence of scum-motivation, found none.

TOWN

Almost50: Bad vote trajectory, excuses about bad posts, bad reads, absence from thread, etc. Tells Porkens to act more town, so he can defend the wagon more vocally.

SCUM

Eddie: Honestly don't know why this looks null-town but it does. Will have to figure that out better later.

null-town

Punreader: No idea, just doesn't seem like scum though.

null-town

TOWN

Jingle
SGBA

Ginngie
Nosferatu

NULL-TOWN

Draynth
Punreader
Eddie

NULL

Gorkington

NULL-SCUM

Titus

SCUM

Almost50
PenguinPower

VOTE: PenguinPower

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Would be fine with Titus as well I think, which would strongly indicate scumA50 further if she indeed flips scum. I do feel that PenguinPower is the more confident read here thought, at least for me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

you do realize ginngie was nk'd and is therefore conftown right?

Yes I realize that. Do you realize this wasn't written this very moment, but over the night phase when I had time to do all that research? I'm dumb and didn't remove it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do we have all the results?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Town result on sgba

Scum result on the above

Does this mean you investigated Draynth and not SGBA..?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

PLAYER	N1 (TARGET;RESULT;FLIP)
MULCH/Draynth	SGBA; town; --
SGBA	Jingle; scum; --
PENGUINPOWER	SGBA; town; --
JINGLE	SGBA; town; --
GORKINGTON	SGBA; scum; --
TITUS	SGBA; scum; --
KIDAMN/Nosferatu	Draynth; scum; --
ALMOST50	SGBA;town; --
ESPECIALLYTHELIES	SGBA; scum; --
SCHADD_/Eddie	SGBA; town; --
CHEEKYTEEKY/PUN	SGBA; scum; --

Jingle I don't know what I'm supposed to do with your table. You be in charge of that one.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Don't think there's much we can do until n2?
I'm not sure either

Yeah I don't really understand how the setup can ever really be "broken". I mean, even if we had multiple flips/results, you can be 1 of 3 possible things for both results. I'm hoping someone else will be better at the setup stuff because it won't be me this game. I don't even know where to begin.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think this is meant to mean "On the same target" which would be us.

That's what I thought but I wanted to make sure cuz it wasn't that clear.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

who are the "hard scumreads" that i was "appealing" to????

I don't remember now. I should have noted those names down. You asked Eddie, Nos and Pun and I thought you had Pun and Nos as hard scumreads.

p-edit: nah lynching an obvtown slot doesn't help us. so, if they flip town, anyone with a town result could be sane, random, or naive, and there's no way to tell which at this point. anyone with a scum result could be insane, random, or paranoid, again with no way to know which.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i meant that it should be obvious in terms of me voting them, pushing them and thinking that they were scum?

well it wasnt. i got the impression you felt much more strongly about tits.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Please don't replace out :< :<
You're one of the like 3 people outside of my hydra that are making this game fun for me to play in.

^ same

[EspeciallyTheLies]

im dying

AN UNFORTUNATE MISTAKE

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@gork: I guess it was just the overall impression I had while reading through the ISO. The switch to Porkens felt weird, but to be truly honest with you I don't care anymore lol at least not right now. I had you as a town read that only went down post-Porkens-flip, and it really wasn't like your typical town lynch. He made analyzing the wagon extremely difficult. As of right now, I want Penguin dead today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

theres only so much time i can slack off at work right now q.q

This is the same for me... my productivity has gone waaaaaay down since I started playing mafia again

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wasn't the whole point of us totally copping SGBA is that we'd flip it so we'd start to narrow down possibilities? I recall the hydra suggesting it but cannot find it.

I also would like you to stay Gork.

Nice wall ETL. I agree with most everything you said but for your spot on me. FMPOV, there was no scum choice, plurality or no.

then vote penguin. and if you aren't scum with penguin and a50, who is?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL, I am not giving up on lynching the obviously scum hydra yet.

lol too bad Titus, it's never gonna happen, so

either you're on board or you're gonna hang today. Which will it be?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So here's what I think should be the plan for tonight:

We all cop SGBA again. Whoever's results differ from last night's pinpoints (some of) the random cops, of which there are at least 4, and possibly 5. Since the Random cops throw the wrenches into the investigations, being able to remove those results from the list greatly increases the power of the setup for town.

4 random cops
2 sane cops
2 insane cops
2 naive cops
2 paranoid cops
1 additional cop, randed among the five sanities

Thoughts?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also as an added bonus, it's clear Titus would rather lynch SGBA than shoot them, so keeping them around is a win-win XD

[EspeciallyTheLies]

*sigh*

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh my... I'm stealing that. It's a thing of beauty, tn.

Also, don't really mind switching to Titus if need be for today and see what the replacement does.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

no. we cop someone else.

Who? And why would that be better than my idea? What does it resolve that my plan doesn't? What more information would it provide that mine wouldn't?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: Titus

Seriously though, why are we not lynching this?

Why don't yall get your shit together first instead of constantly switching your votes around?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Titus I swear to god if I hear one more thing about the goddamn hydra I will powerlynch the fuck out of you.

They aren't being disruptive and haven't been in over FOURTY PAGES. Like... why are you harping on OLD FUCKING NEWS? I have a headache, I gained 3 lbs this week despite dieting and working out like a fuckin moron with nothing better to do, I have cramps, I am irritated, so now is really not the time to keep going with this

lame bullshit

.

PICK SOMETHING ELSE.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You ok with a Punreader lynch?

The only ones I'd be ok with lynching today are Penguin, Almost50, or you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I feel we should cop Jingle personally. While I think he's town, if there's scum in the louder voices, it's him.

Ok but what additional information does that net us?

We won't learn anything more about sanities than we did today beyond guessing. Copping the same target again provides concrete confirmation of who is a random cop and eliminates them from the list of possible useful roles. Copping someone else doesn't do that. Does that make sense?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

In addition, scum will be assigned 1 random cop, 1 sane or insane cop, and 1 naive or paranoid cop, with town receiving the remainder of the roles.

I must have missed this. Scum are guaranteed to be one of each, so identifying the random cops narrows the list considerably to finding the likely scum in the list of randoms.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You have got to be kidding me....

VOTE: Titus

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't think you understand how this works. regardless of whether sgba is town or scum, checking them twice will expose the random cops immediately because anyone who gets a different result than they had the first night is a CONFIRMED RANDOM COP.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You have got to be kidding me....

VOTE: Titus

So this isn't really about engaging you is it? This is you being a my way or the highway queen. Why do you always act like this in every game we are in together? Why am I the one always giving concessions?

my vote indicates that i believe you are scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

check my reads list.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

JANGLE. ONE SCUM IS GUARANTEED TO BE A RANDO

[EspeciallyTheLies]

also how do you figure your results. that is some mental gymnastics there buddy pal. random results make everything wonky.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

also also what is m nmmnn?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't think you understand how this works. regardless of whether sgba is town or scum, checking them twice will expose the random cops immediately because anyone who gets a different result than they had the first night is a CONFIRMED RANDOM COP.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i like this game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

oh. ok. can we use X for no?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

etl, is jingle scum?

I strongly don't think so but i don't know why you're asking someone who you think is scum... especially considering i've held that belief for the majority of this game so far.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

jingle do you think eddie is town? i thought he probably was but his entire posting today looks like he's reading a totally different game, and now i'm questioning that read.