Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Tchill13]

Ah. Wave mode the poet guy lol.

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VOTE: lefty

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wondering if invisibility is just trying to LOOK town or not.

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im not a fan of things that are easy tpo say for ppl to look town. especially early.

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you're saying you prefer statements like "im town pls love me" in the LATE game?

no not really. just play and do town things.

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@BBT - are you gonna actually give a reason for your push? You are creeping out of ~reaction testing territory imo. What do you make of Invis and the other guy wagoning you instead?

y so serious?

The dude called for more votes on my wagon like 2-3 times. I’m allowed to ask lol

i dont like to call it rvs... more like random wagoning stage.

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Im actually kind of inclined to agree. Last time I played with Town!BBT, they pushed a mislynch (me, grrrr) several times, but at least provided reasoning.

VOTE: BBT.

BBT - strongest scum/town read, why, and +rand on it?

now this could be scum... You really expect a reason for pushing a wagon before page 5?

VOTE: teacher

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I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice

i'm down for not doing that

why not use more the 36 hours to nail scum?

im not saying take forever, i'm just saying don't rush the game

i was addressing this interaction from invisibility. its easy to spew town this early on a stance like that. It's not "fluff". It's invisibility purposefully looking town. tbh i believe scum have more to gain from spewing town early and seek to do so more than actual townies.

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I don't have much else to say on your wagon - but with the current gamestate I am even more inclined to push you now.

You’re retroactively making a reason to sustain the push now?

Like talk me thru it here. I get wagoned for lulz, whatever. You call for more votes. I ignore the first time thinking it’s likely you’re just poking me to see if I squirm and maybe to see how others treat the wagon. Fair enough. No one really bites so you do it again. Still no one bites. Then you do it a third time, and instead of joining on me you get snap voted by two others.

All the while I’m asking what your game is, which you refuse to answer, and get another vote.

So now that you have been pushing me for no discernible reason, and people are voting you for it, you’re using that as a sign to push me further? That’s your angle?

That sums it up pretty well yeah. Saved me having to explain it as well.

BBT seems to have the same mindset i do early. Pretty much any and every townie is expendable days 1 and 2. Wagon reasoning doesnt matter until theres an actual reason to wagon (a reason that can be validated).

thats why teacher stuck out. Made a point to mention meta, at least a past experience, then puts a vote down early for a "lack of reason" which is a good reason to push as long as you're a decent amount of time into the game. We haven't reached that yet.

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There may be something that tells me you're town - but I want to ignore it for now.

@BBT lefty is either scum or new town. New scum would react the same way though. I dont think his reaction is AI. Scum would surely know the 1st wagon never goes through and would welcome it instead of fighting it so meticulously. That's the only reason i'd lean town on lefty. Not saying i lean town on lefty yet for the record.

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if the team was gosrir, byron and teacher that'd be pretty funny... oh well. just so you know i think guessing teams is stupid day 1 but ppl do it allll the time.

im not lynching bbt today though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until day 2 possibly 3. Yes it's solely because i understand his style early which is a very easy style to manipulate as scum early. I'm giving him a chance above everything else i've seen though.

Tr-BBT

Scum-Teacher

no reads in between.

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if the team was gosrir, byron and teacher that'd be pretty funny... oh well. just so you know i think guessing teams is stupid day 1 but ppl do it allll the time.

im not lynching bbt today though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until day 2 possibly 3. Yes it's solely because i understand his style early which is a very easy style to manipulate as scum early. I'm giving him a chance above everything else i've seen though.

Tr-BBT

Scum-Teacher

no reads in between.

BBT seems to have the same mindset I do early. Pretty much any and every townie is expendable days 1 and 2. Wagon reasoning doesnt matter until theres an actual reason to wagon (a reason that can be validated).

These two clash against each other. Didn't you say "It doesn't matter if a townie gets lynched day 1 according to you as they are expendable?" Your words imply that BBT isn't expendable till a certain day or so. Why is BBT different from others.

Also why are you town reading BBT. Nothing in your speech implies you think BBT is town at most it should be a null read. What town actions taken by BBT justify a BBT town read in your eyes, especially if you are giving him the benefit of a doubt (which implies you think his actions are scummy but giving him a pass)?

Being a easy mislynch isn't a legit reason to town read someone.

I have a couple of reasons why I think there's a discrepancy between your mentality as described by you and your actual actions but I would rather hear it untainted from your mouth.

every townie is expendable until from my own perspective have a reason to not vote them. BBT's style of play and reads are similar to mine. I understand the motivation he has for playing the way he does i do the same all the time. That is a reason for me to TR him (I do not build "reads" the same as others d1) I hand out hard TR's day 1 to ppl ik and/or ppl im comfortable to be able to read by day 3. If BBT is town then great, if he's not im confident enough in myself to figure that out later. Clearing the game of townies that will always be in my lynch pool d1 is almost as useful as lynching actual scum seeing how scum will not be able to take advantage of certain town players anymore.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: BV

107 is a commentary. Provides no information, communicates nothing, asks nothing, leads to nothing. So why make such a long post?

To make a statement. It seemed that BBT was confused as to why my vote was serious, and so I told him exactly why my vote was serious. Him withholding information from the town so he can ignore it. The sidenotes and nothing more/less than what they are, a sidenote. There's nothing wrong with a commentary, as it gets my views out there. That post wasn't made in order to ask questions or provide information (well I'm hoping for BBT to elaborate on his #84 but hey ho), it was more a platform for me to speak my mind on those posts of BBT's.

if you're seriously voting someone for not talking about a gut read/meta/something they saw this early thats kinda dumb. I could see doing that to someone the day before lylo. You realize the good townies get killed fisrt right? so if you're a good townie and you'd rather actually solve the game... You can't show your hand. You DO have to hold back a bit early in the game. That's just how it is. I can understand you not realizing that point in particular but now that i've mentioned it there's no point in pushing BBT for the same thing. Either you can disagree with my thought and we can discuss that or you can move along and make new reads, if you want of course. Not telling you how to play at all

[Tchill13]

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

this is interesting. Why am i so close to teacher and so far from BBT?

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Byron trying way too hard to sound town there.

Is it really this easy.

Teacher/Byron/???

Jesus christ you just love using OMGUS don't you? Learn some respect jesus

this BBT V Byron is disgusting on byron's part. Demands "other" info from BBT (giving BBT exactly what he wanted, a reaction) claims he's trying to learn the game (join date 2015) jumps for the OMGUS finger pointing immediately (this is where I get my scumtingles, other points could have town motivation to them) and now Byron has made such a big issue out of the mess it can't go ignored. Town usually doesn't jump to OMGUS like that imo in that situation this early in the game.

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Thanks for response Wave, I disagree with reasoning on Invis vote as I could easily see it being qualified as RVS.

I understand that possibility (small as it might be - the wagon was clearly formed for serious reasons), but at the end of the day I'm not claiming it would have gotten him lynched to vote there as scum - I'm just saying he had nothing to *gain*. It would have been a risk for no benefit to vote and offer no dialogue or reasoning there, IMO, as opposed to giving some reasoning and attempting to look like a contributing townie. UNLESS, as I said, it was a 5D chess move to fool the observant. In my experience this flips town 8 times out of 10

I disagree on Byron as well - this feels like scum who don't want to backtrack on a read. Trying to stay consistent/how they think they would act as town.

Oh, come on now, be objective. Does this REALLY read to you like a push for your throat? What does scum gain from 107, making points that he himself admits (several times, in other posts) are not necessarily scummy but anti-town? "scum who don't want to backtrack on a read" ehhh byron was not under any pressure to start taking shots at you. He created this whole stink unprompted. If he's scum here, he must think he can not only get you lynched but also recover from your town flip afterward. But he's not playing to that objective whatsoever. He seems to just really want to know what the fuck is up with your read lol. Usually once I reach the position of "if this person were scum, he'd have to actually just be fucking retarded" I set them aside. Like,

maaaaaayyyybeeee

but we can deal with him later if he is. In my experience this flips town 99 times out of 100

@wavemode regarding the "maybe retarded" statement... In my experience sometimes giving scum any credit for being a decent player is too much credit at all. I'd be careful with that.

[Tchill13]

i was addressing this interaction from invisibility. its easy to spew town this early on a stance like that. It's not "fluff". It's invisibility purposefully looking town. tbh i believe scum have more to gain from spewing town early and seek to do so more than actual townies.

Wouldn't Town say the same thing on that topic? So the difference is people not mentioning it and (from you pov) Invis going out of their way to say it?

exactly. Scum want to look town so they'll make the easy statements quicker than other townies imo. This isn't a full proof way to read someone i just use it to "help" a main case, which i do not have on invisibility.

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not sure why tommy is voting me. I'm gonna need him to break down his "lamist" remark.

you accuse Scum BBT of buddying then vote me? thats odd. Multiple scum reads are fine. Thats still odd.

I can't speak for how others would or wouldn't play a certain alignment. I'm saying there's more benefit to scum for NOT contesting their wagon if it's their first one on day 1.

Yeah i said a lot to give out a null read on invisibility. I'm just trying to have a transparent thought process d1.

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I have no particular reason to townread Tchill at the moment, nor teacher

at what point in your list DO you have reason? 1 above me? 3 above me? this just tells me your list lacks reasons.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: BV

107 is a commentary. Provides no information, communicates nothing, asks nothing, leads to nothing. So why make such a long post?

To make a statement. It seemed that BBT was confused as to why my vote was serious, and so I told him exactly why my vote was serious. Him withholding information from the town so he can ignore it. The sidenotes and nothing more/less than what they are, a sidenote. There's nothing wrong with a commentary, as it gets my views out there. That post wasn't made in order to ask questions or provide information (well I'm hoping for BBT to elaborate on his #84 but hey ho), it was more a platform for me to speak my mind on those posts of BBT's.

if you're seriously voting someone for not talking about a gut read/meta/something they saw this early thats kinda dumb. I could see doing that to someone the day before lylo. You realize the good townies get killed fisrt right? so if you're a good townie and you'd rather actually solve the game... You can't show your hand. You DO have to hold back a bit early in the game. That's just how it is. I can understand you not realizing that point in particular but now that i've mentioned it there's no point in pushing BBT for the same thing. Either you can disagree with my thought and we can discuss that or you can move along and make new reads, if you want of course. Not telling you how to play at all

I play to win, not to survive. In a worst case scenario when I die, I want to make sure there's enough info left for other townies to pick up the pieces. Also is it bad I don't consider myself good at the game? I feel compared to others I'm quite expendable and it's a better strat to let the experienced players take the mantle come the endgame.

im glad you felt the need to point out you're not trying to survive. The issue from a d1 lynch is there is minimal info given. the least amount of info from a lynch actually. So in d1 lynches you shouldn't be looking for info primarily (unless a situation occurs that gives you a ton of info). you should be looking for players who will consistently be in your lynch pool due to thought process, play style or lurking and you should push to lynch them.

[Tchill13]

I play to win, not to survive. In a worst case scenario when I die, I want to make sure there's enough info left for other townies to pick up the pieces.

But if you scum read people for things that aren’t AI, nobody is going to listen to you when you are dead. Besides, unless you are NKd, people typically don’t listen to the dead people and while i town read you, If you are actually town, id be surprised if scum actually killed you.

and we definitely want to lynch pp that aren't conftown but are conf scum never kill them if they're town lol.

[Tchill13]

lefty
BBT
wave

invis, gus

teacher
byron

thats all my reads so far.

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VOTE: performer

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@garmr

I said i will not lynch BBT specifically in case he does something super scummy I WILL NOT lynch him. At all. I trust the guy 100 percent. day 2 or 3 isn't wiggle room or lynching at another date. I'ts to allow me to reassess my read after more info is gained through flips.

I gotta start somewhere in this game i choose bbt because of play style and thought process and i trust myself to catch my mistake if im wrong. All further questions on BBT can be redirected to this statement lol

[Tchill13]

also @garmr

not sewing myself. We have similar reads. I just wanted a reason.

if you don't think im coming from a town place thats fine. My style is weird d1 and this is a major change up. I haven't put effort into a d1 in idk how long but i wanted to see how i'd do. I will try to be transparent for others though. all i ask is you TRY look at my motivations not my style.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: performer

You shown you have reads why vote someone who hasn't posted since rvs and with out explanation?

idk you tell me? what POSSIBLE reason could i have for stating my reads then naked voting someone not on that list? could it be to form a new read? maybe to poke a lurker and see how they react?

im not making fun. the level of simple questions is pretty high in this game. idk what you expect me to say that you couldn't possibly figure out on your own.

letting ppl slide through d1 isn't how to play d1.

[Tchill13]

it's like that stuff about calling BBT scum for being "an ass" i don't like

Why does that make somebody scum though?

it's a bad reason to scumread someone
scum tries to make town look like scum

But bad =/= scum.

Sure scum try to make town look bad but sometimes town makes themselves look bad and town think it’s scummy.

In this scenario I could very easily see naive town push an asshole so to me it’s not really scummy.

That being said, one could use the same logic against you. You could be scum making Byron look bad

scum don't have to make byron look bad. It's also easier for scum to let town make other town look bad. Scum usually just want to look town. thats it.

[Tchill13]

alright i'll be back in a bit i expect a full wagon on performer and those who don't participate are his scum buddies lol.

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That performer wagon is coming along...

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{invis, GEO, performer} can go.

i'm surprised teacher isn't in this.

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Gustavo what's up with your hatred of day 1?

It’s the day with the least information to work with.

THANK YOU. hey man 2 weeks GUARANTEES a scum lynch though... smh.

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im actually feeling kind of suspicious of Tchill

it just so happens?

Nah like actual reasons

Why is Nos town

because he looks like he's trying to solve the game and it doesn't seem fake?

FR he pretty much just regurgitated commentary that’s been hashed out pages ago. The only original take was calling out GEO.

I reward very few townies points.

lmao.

[Tchill13]

what about my effort in solving has seemed fake to you invis?

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Byron, why the change?

Has your read on me changed or is the read on Invis stronger?

My read on you has changed slightly, you're still an ass but scum wouldn't want to be an ass for the most part so you're like a slight scum lean now. (Ay you wanna answer that question still?)

Invis I just feel off about. Feels like they've just bounced around wagons with no real solid reads. Invis, can you give us a readlist if possible (Ideally with reasonings)? You keep saying so-and-so are town/scum but with no real explanation behind each read. Feels like a weirdly safe way of playing that I'm not a fan of.

you know why scum would be an ass? because ppl like you would give them a pass simply for being mean. being mean is NAI.

[Tchill13]

Page 11 and I'm still struggling for town reads.

Sad times.

since a handful of ppl threw lefty out as town lefty probably IS town. BBT feels town. Byron is probably town... thats about it though.

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@invis do you still feel the same way or are you gonna back off simply because I asked? because you just gave me an excuse not a real reason lol.

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You’re also still arguing from the logic standpoint, which I think is not very difficult to do as scum. You’re countering my points by pointing at actions that are supposed to be Townie. I’m much more concerned about lynching who I think is scum than seeing who is acting the most Town.

i'm a logical person, what can I say. If you are interested in lynching scum you have to A. find them and B. convince others to do that.

You haven't done either of those things yet. I get you think i am scum, but your reasons for scum reading me aren't very good. You just don't like my playstyle which is fine, I am not really interested in arguing with you about your reasons, but i will push you to do part 2 of the job of a townie. You already said you are fine sitting back which is lazy or it's scum trying to avoid actual scum hunting.

just so we are clear from this point where gus posted this im gonna be pretty suspicious here of ppl that would rather lynch gus than sort Performer/gosrir and/or get a few more in depth reads on others? poking gus is fine but if he's lynched today scum will be on his wagon whether he is town or scum. since town rarely lynch scum d1 without a scum bus. Scum would more than likely jump on his wagon to keep other town from sorting.

Gus hasn't done anything scummy. A few RVS votes. Voted Performer. I fail to see how lynching Gus is the best option.

Performer/invis/gosrir/teacher are much better lynch options in no particular order.

[Tchill13]

I don’t think lefty has done anything to warrant a town read.

I feel like you're getting unfair treatment stemming from your need to end d1 early which i dont have an issue with.

Lefty is more than likely town. I'd rather not explain that atm though. I'm ok with you not agreeing atm.

[Tchill13]

This isn’t about playstyle.

But it is though. You are gut scum reading me because of my playstyle

No. I’m SR you because the shots you’re taking are scummy imo. Stop making this about something it’s not.

just because ppl continue to push LHF (i dont necessarily agree in this case on gus) doesn't mean that it's inexcusable. LHF implies you believe the ppl Gus have pushed are town or else you wouldn't be THAT upset with Gus. Why are the people Gus pushed town Lefty?

[Tchill13]

sidenote not at all important to this game: why do ppl get so touchy when others make points in favor of them?

like im not "defending" gus there. im just saying we have better options. ppl say "i dont need defended" all the time which is a tad annoying when thats not my objective at all i just dont want to lynch town lol.

[Tchill13]

It’s like your ignoring importance of interaction tells in favor of pointing out how you’re at least appearing to scum hunt. Scum gotta make pushes too and lynching scummy townies is the fast track to victory.

I’m a lot more interested in looking for who is taking the easy shots than lynching players that could just be scummy looking Town. Maybe that clashes with the meta on MS but I’m pretty against lynching townies because they’re liabilities. Lynching Town doesn’t advance my wincon.

last few sentences are flat out long. Town that are liabilities help scum out MORE

[Tchill13]

It’s like your ignoring importance of interaction tells in favor of pointing out how you’re at least appearing to scum hunt. Scum gotta make pushes too and lynching scummy townies is the fast track to victory.

I’m a lot more interested in looking for who is taking the easy shots than lynching players that could just be scummy looking Town. Maybe that clashes with the meta on MS but I’m pretty against lynching townies because they’re liabilities. Lynching Town doesn’t advance my wincon.

last few sentences are flat out long. Town that are liabilities help scum out MORE

MORE than there extra abilities. They create confusion, give scum a vote to bank on in lylo, do not participate in lynching scum or helping lynch scum...

You want me to tell you the most efficient way to play mafia (imo obviously) days 1 and 2 are fore getting rid of scum/liabilities (emphasis on the possible liabilities) then after 4 flips you have more than enough info to lynch scum.

Get rid of the liabilities as early and as often as possible. Scum will never kill them, there's a reason. Which leads me to my next point.

Invis/byron should not get to lylo. Either is a fine lynch today if we can't settle on a better scum candidate. THAT being said i don't believer they're just town liabilities, there's a decent chance one is actually scum.

[Tchill13]

That wasn't really helpful;

Fluff

Fluff

Disliking of fluff

Vote.

Think I summed that post up pretty well?

I don’t think you are in any position to criticize somebody’s reasons when you have outright refused to give reasons yourself.

refusing to gibe reasons is one thing. Actually giving terrible reasons is another.

[Tchill13]

BBT how many town do you think is in (Byron/invis/lefty)?

how many scum do you think is in (Nosferatu/Teacher/performer/tommy egan)

just numbers are fine.

[Tchill13]

That wasn't really helpful;

Fluff

Fluff

Disliking of fluff

Vote.

Think I summed that post up pretty well?

I don’t think you are in any position to criticize somebody’s reasons when you have outright refused to give reasons yourself.

refusing to gibe reasons is one thing. Actually giving terrible reasons is another.

I’d rather have shifty reasons than none at all. At least you can evaluate the shifty ones and determine they are shitty. You can’t evaluate something that isn’t given.

scum also can't adjust their play if they don't know why they're being read a particular way.

[Tchill13]

BBT how many town do you think is in (Byron/invis/lefty)?

how many scum do you think is in (Nosferatu/Teacher/performer/tommy egan)

just numbers are fine.

ACTUALLY anybody is more than welcome to answer this.

[Tchill13]

no way there's less than 2 town there. thats way too easy BBT. They could easily all be town.

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scum also can't adjust their play if they don't know why they're being read a particular way.

But if you’re paying attention it’s easy to spot those changes.

good point. I dont agree with your overall idea but still a good point.

tell me how town benefits from you death tunneling performer? because i actually agree with your "push" of performer. Problem is you know how pointless d1s are. You should also know why a death tunnel d1 is hysterical especially when you have a chance to begin to sort a new player list.

[Tchill13]

What's way too easy? Do you hold all players to a high standard when it comes to playing as scum?

I really dislike that - it's almost like 'too scummy to be scum'. Sometimes, games are just that easy and everything gets over thought clouding out the simple conclusions.

not necessarily a high standard but i dont see scum motivations from 2 of those guys.

i genuinely feel that lefty is town. Byron would be my lynch in that list if i HAD to pick. Invis hasn't pegged my "decent chance he's scum" button yet.

[Tchill13]

BBT, Lefty

lean town on invis

Gosrir, Gus, Tommy Egan, Wave

lean scum on byron, Nosferatu, Performer, Teacher

[Tchill13]

I also think Lefty is town - but could easily see Byron and Invis as scum.

in a perfect world id get more info on gosrir, tommy and performer before lynching.

Byron, Teacher, Performer are lynches i Will vote for at the end of sorting.

[Tchill13]

but you could agree that BV/Performer/Teacher/Invis shouldnt be in lylo based on their play up to this moment correct?

[Tchill13]

but you could agree that BV/Performer/Teacher/Invis shouldnt be in lylo based on their play up to this moment correct?

In a perfect world we sweep the scum team and LyLo isn’t something I have to consider

Call me an optimist.

well we don't live in a perfect world and we need to keep that in mind when we play

[Tchill13]

@gus whats the accusation and where is it? i just iso'ed performer and didnt see much.

[Tchill13]

@BBT just so we are clear id say 40 percent of my not scum feel on invis is his actual play, 60 percent of it is the ppl that voted him. Lot of low effort players voting him early.

[Tchill13]

i feel like gus and lefty is tvt honestly.

I can see where both are coming from.

[Tchill13]

gus vs lefty made we feel a little worse about lefty

Where did this come from?

And does anyone see in this post what I see in it (hint: timing)

ooh ooh is it the fact that he might try to get on a new wagon early?

[Tchill13]

i mean we're not lynching gus or lefty today so i'd drop that idea.

gus is pushing things that sorta make sense to me as far as his actual pushes go.

lefty is arguing his stances and i get that also.

seem like wasted effort in the wrong places imo.

[Tchill13]

i dont like the logical point ftr. i understand scum can be logical but you're beating that to death and it almost seems like you are determined to scum read him. i'd be careful with that.

[Tchill13]

active lurking would be my second guess? refusal to participate in discussion but will comment when its over.

[Tchill13]

active lurking would be my second guess? refusal to participate in discussion but will comment when its over.

There was talk between Lefty/Gus about going against the grain/targeting easy players and how it makes you town/scum.

Then Invis comments and is like 'Oh yeah, Lefty looks bad from that Gus convo' when I don't think a single person (at least not active) is scum reading Lefty.

Was Invis making an attempt to go against the grain to look town?

is it a shame i consider this next lvl mafia? lol great pick up though.

[Tchill13]

TChill - tell me you still think Invis is town.

i have no reason to. here's the thing. would you consider that to be good scum play from invis?

[Tchill13]

oh crap Gosrir Elmer Odels has more

Dw I got you

VOTE: Gosrir Elmer Odels

Also, this Lefty wagon looks great huh? More people should join.

Idk counter-wagons can be a lot more fun, let's get one started

UNVOTE: Gosrir Elmer Odels
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

@BBT: Yeah, I'd even said that that was why I originally voted him. Scum wants to do what you described, you're absolutely right. But it couldn't have worked after there was already a wagon on BV. He was already in the spotlight, & he stayed there. That's my point. I think scum!BV would've broken off or began a real push against you asap. That didn't happen.
I mean, the scenario you're talking about works when scum isn't the creepy guy around the mislynch wagon, right? So why would scum continue the same strategy when they're already the creepy guy around the wagon?

super duper paranoid gosrir and BV are scum together because of early distancing and gosrir defending BV.

[Tchill13]

BBT/performer scumteam yea nay?

yeah town can defend other players because they think its a bad lynch.

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I mean, I'm not protecting anyone.

I'm trying to understand how someone with 5(?) posts can possibly be a leading wagon on page 18 of a game.

do you suppose we let him slide through d1?

[Tchill13]

Is anyone voting performer because he’s a low content player? If no your argument doesn’t water.

like... Gus please be town lol.

[Tchill13]

i mean, if someone got off it that would look a lot more suspicious at that point lol. surely you realize this

this is a red flag. Why would they look suspicious? if they're on the wagon for any reason other than to get content that reason IS A LIE.

When i'm fine with the content i'll make my decision to get off or not.

[Tchill13]

The intention is clearly there and now I have kicked up a fuss about it nobody will be leaving is easily/quietly.

I have forced people on the wagon to defend their position on it. They had the chance to get off - and didn't take it. Now they're committed.

yeah ok but there was no reason to do this. People don't get lynched on page 18.

pg 20 should be the d1 limit.

[Tchill13]

BBt, Gus, Lefty is my townblock.

Invis/teacher/performer/gosrir/BV should be lynched before lylo.

Nos is probably town.

im pretty much done with D1.

[Tchill13]

im not rushing you at all i understand irl.

take your time. sorry if thats what it seemed like. I was just announcing i felt good about the info i obtained for this day.

[Tchill13]

BBt, Gus, Lefty is my townblock.

Invis/teacher/performer/gosrir/BV should be lynched before lylo.

Nos is probably town.

im pretty much done with D1.

I get where you’re coming from about D1 and wanting more concrete info, but unless you really think all the scum are in those 5 then we lose this game every time blasting thru that POE. I don’t mind taking more time to sort. Longer DLs are harder for scum to keep up their fronts than on Town imo. Some players start slower than others.

i think 2 scum are in it. its fluid. it'll change with flips.

[Tchill13]

wagons stalled because scum don't want to lynch either.

[Tchill13]

@teacher if gus said he had actual reasons for voting performer I missed that.

[Tchill13]

Invis flopping more than a flip flop lol

[Tchill13]

Maybe I'm not reading properly. I missed gus and waves "reason" for voting performer

[Tchill13]

I'll catch up tonight. Interesting stuff on a skim through though.

[Tchill13]

I could go back to lynching Gus tbh. I’m having a hard time seeing this myopic perspective coming from Town unless he’s literally a robot.

I can understand his play if he is who i think he is.

either way lefty, gus, BBT is town. Even if gus did have a reason for voting performer that i missed. Gus has been in the middle of things too long d1 to be scum since he hasn't backed off yet.

Invis is objectively the best lynch imo.

I'm wondering if its common for performer to be low content when he plays scum.

[Tchill13]

i'll give scum ONE good player.

NOS, Gus would be my best bet IF scum had one good player.

Invis/teacher/tommy/performer/gosrir are in my should be dealt with pool.

Invis is up first. more content from certain ppl can clear up half that pool.

Invis already supplied content thats alarming.

[Tchill13]

I will never have an alt.

[Tchill13]

Whenever I start to play elsewhere I'm going to use the same name and avatar if possible actually. On all sites.

[Tchill13]

if your an alt i have a decent idea. could be wrong i guess.

[Tchill13]

im saying nos or gus lol.

[Tchill13]

If the performer wagon wouldn't have stalled like it has I would think pretty clearly that invis is scum. I feel pretty good that performer maybe scum.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: invisibility

i've seen enough

[Tchill13]

That a rough preferred interest lynch you got there.

[Tchill13]

I don't like the fact he doesn't prefer to lynch ANY ppl d1 that will probably make it to lylo if they're town.

[Tchill13]

I don't like the fact he doesn't prefer to lynch ANY ppl d1 that will probably make it to lylo if they're town.

This really isn’t a good reason to lynch ppl though.

It is EARLY when there's limited information.

[Tchill13]

Days 1 two and 3 should be used to lynch suspicious players. Players that will not help town. Players that could be scum but could also be used as tools by scum because of the limited information early game. If you can't lynch scum for sure day 3 after a few town flips and night kills. You're just bad or you've allowed scum to use too many players to their advantage.

[Tchill13]

Days 1 two and 3 should be used to lynch suspicious players. Players that will not help town. Players that could be scum but could also be used as tools by scum because of the limited information early game. If you can't lynch scum for sure day 3 after a few town flips and night kills. You're just bad or you've allowed scum to use too many players to their advantage.

This philosophy is just so backwards to me, dude. Like giving up easy MLs in the early parts of the game just adds more pressure to getting it right later on. I’d rather scum have to work D1-3 to get townies lynched than just pick players who don’t look strong and lynch them cause we don’t want them at end game. Like why are you evening thinking of end game D1? Just hunt scum, dude. How am I supposed to differiante between scum vs lazy town if we just lynch everyone who says dumb shit?

I mean it's just my style. This is more of a post game discussion.

Invis is probably scum.

Invis, Byron gosrir are great lynches

[Tchill13]

Invis/Byron are probably mislynch bait ( I give up, i dont really see scum motivation from this even though i want them cleaned out )

Tommy, Teacher, Wave has scum in it. I see possible scum motivation from them.

[Tchill13]

i just really, really hate mislynching townies that are actually useful opposed to mislynching others i could see as causing problems later (post game thoughts)

[Tchill13]

Sorry didn’t realize this was a newbie game. I thought experienced players could figure things out like that

Says the guy death tunneling on d1

[Tchill13]

If invisibility ever flips scum in insta lynching wave.

This is ridiculous. Why wouldn't you lynch invisibility here? Give me a good reason.

[Tchill13]

Idc about that. That's not what I asked.

You didn't want to before. Why? What has solidified over time that's keeping you from doing it now?

[Tchill13]

Yes let's stick out olive branches at L-1. You're just gonna get a bunch of NAI content.

[Tchill13]

Oh lord. Don't compare me to my last games wave lol.

It's a red flag that you're defending invisible and you want him in the game.

[Tchill13]

If Byron is scum doesn't make sense to unvote invisibility here.

@bbt

[Tchill13]

Could gosrir be scum for fueling discussions that don't matter?

[Tchill13]

Gus really needs to stop participating in NAI discussions.

Scum is in a great spot. Thread is bogged down. We don't want to deal with low activity players. We can't decide on a lynch.

This is why day 1 lynches don't matter.

[Tchill13]

For what? Him to get ran up at the end of d1 since we ain't lynching invisibility? Only way Byron unvoted is if he is scum with invisibility.

We will know that by d3 if that's the case.

Byron is 80 percent town.

Whats the case for him unvoting if he's scum in your opinion?

[Tchill13]

Lynch invisibility.

Byron is town unless he's scum with invisibility.

Bbt is town regardless of the flip.

Now gus has Alerted me. Accusing people of being a certain alignment depending on what someone flips is highly, highly questionable and worth looking into.

Either way invisibility needs to be lynched.

[Tchill13]

Stop taking things seriously when you're about to die?

That's anti alignment play regardless of alignment.

[Tchill13]

Invis needs to flip before I decide what I want to do next.

[Tchill13]

Now who's deathtunneling

death tunneling is done when there's not a good case or valid reason. There's not a lynch thats better. There IS reason for the lynch of invisibility.

not a death tunnel.

[Tchill13]

finishing up
teacher - scumreading, a lot of his posts contain points that teacher doesn't have to
wavemode - null
Lefty - Town
ByronVilla - feeling a little suspicious because of recent posts
Tchill13 - he's probably town. posting doesn't seem fake
Tommy Egan - is town can't explain have to go kbai

the byron read comes from BBT lol.

[Tchill13]

On mobile so will respond to Nos when I'm back on laptop.

@tchill if invis/Byron are mislynch bait then surely they are in criteria as your d1/2/3 lynches as they would be a liability to town?

*cough*Tchill*cough*

invis and byron will never be NK'd so yes you are correct.

[Tchill13]

Something real fishy is going on and if anybody wants to flash wagon Byron or Gus I'm absolutely 100% interested in doing that.

Please do. Because nobody wants to lynch my scum reads and if invisibility gets lynched and flips town I’m done with this game.

oh please. Quite the melodramatic outlook.

[Tchill13]

I think garmr is town.

Guess who has the most to gain from not lynching invisibility whether he's town or scum?

Scum.

[Tchill13]

Yeah push that I'm tunneling.

This is a reasonable push. It makes the most sense and nothing else comes even close to making more sense.

[Tchill13]

Why as town would I want you in the game more than teacher/performer/gosrir/Byron if you were town?

And after that

Why should I have reason to believe that you're more likely to be town than any of them?

[Tchill13]

hey dude can i make a joke thanks

I mean your d1 play is a joke so I guess you can.

All jokes aside you need to be dead.

[Tchill13]

I think invisibility should be lynched. Ascetic should claim at start as to not waste towns power roles. It makes me think it's a fake claim.
His early game was incredibly scummy; His votes were jumpy and he picked every big wagon. He jumped on byronvilla because of he misunderstood the reaction from the masses and thought he could push that lynch.

He then votes geo when asked by BBT what his thoughts are. I would think he would of gone back to voting him earlier as town since he was a earlier scum read.

His latter plays seem null but they don't really match a natural progression of scum hunting. They seem to be adapting to what he think towns wants.



Also just throwing this out I think Tommy Egan is town

tchill, are you townreading garmr because he's scumreading me?

nothing in garmr's post is wrong which is why im TRing him.

[Tchill13]

Gus is my shakiest read.

What about invisibility is a compromise lynch? There's LEGITIMATE reason to believe he is scum.

[Tchill13]

I think gus attitude is pretty shit. He should stop being a Debbie downer.

Even if my attitude is shit, I’m not compromising on somebody I don’t scum read so what exactly do you want me to do?

Put a wagon on performer, lefty, or bbt and I’ll be happy as a school girl.

Sheesh. How are Bbt and lefty scum? Yet you refuse to lynch a legitimate scum candidate? I don't understand.

[Tchill13]

Bbt/lefty/gus/garmr/Byron

Teacher/performer/gosrir/invisibility

In nk order that's my town and scum reads. You're null if you're not in that.

[Tchill13]

No

[Tchill13]

OK. I'm just not reading apparently.

[Tchill13]

I’m probably going through replace out. The fact every player ignored an awesome post by me showing just how scummy lefty has been acting shows nobody really cares about finding scum. Only one person referenced it and tried to use that against me.

That shows players just not caring and I care too much.

Once again quite Melo dramatic. It's day 1. You've done some great work. That's pretty much all there is to say.

[Tchill13]

Lol

IF SCUM DOESN'T KILL FOUR OF US TONIGHT THEY'RE GONNA LOSE.

I always thought those statements were funny too.

[Tchill13]

No surprise that your two choices are town. I made the Performer wagon a no-go because he made it clear to me he was town. And before he did that people were trying to lynch him based purely on lurking whilst stating awful reasons to try and justify it.

I think only TChill said he was trying to gain information/force involvement. Gus, Nos and Wave (?) all tried to justify their position on the wagon as if Performer (with 5 posts) was the scummiest scummer to ever scum. That's not happening whilst I'm around.

Am I scum based purely on a pre-flip association with Performer or is there more?

Also, why is Performer scum?

im catching up rn. BBT and PErformer are probably the same alignment.

[Tchill13]

In my opinion the push was too slow for it to be a push by scum. Like, the wagon was consistently on like 4 people for super long before everyone just kinda went 'Let's just lynch Invis'. It didn't feel like a lynch on scum, but a lynch for the sake of a lynch. I don't think there were many people who really were convinced Invis were scum, and that felt like a problem to me. It meant scum could lynch town with the excuse of 'it gives us info so let's do it'.

Invisibility

(4): Garmr, Performer, ByronVilla, BlueBloodedToffee

Also I think one of these are scum. Ironically I'm on there, but I feel like one of these just parked their vote and rode the wagon out to an easy D1 town lynch. Now I TR Garmr and I'm gonna take myself out, so my lynchpool coming into today is between Performer & BBT. That's obviously subject to change as the day plays out, but I'm gonna have my eyes on those two.

this list in that order is most likely scum to least likely scum lol.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Byron

Oh yeah I should clarify I think there were either one or two scum on the wagon, most likely two. One parking at the start and another hopping on at the end. (Funnily enough BBT actually fits both these criteria, as he was on the wagon near the start, then hopped off, then joined again to force the lynch)

And due to this,

VOTE: BBT

i want both of yall to be town.

Byron because of his unvote d1. BBT because of his style.

If im FORCED to choose scum between yall i'd have to choose BBT. For future reference.

[Tchill13]

of course OMGUS makes byron look terrible there.

[Tchill13]

I honestly wouldn't mind a Nos lynch tbh. He feels like a scum slot that's coasting by. He hasn't made any real hard pushes.
His scum reads

{invis, GEO, performer}

are pretty much regurgitated from general Concensus which he added nothing new.

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Also chuck a few towns reads like byron and gus

So his previous scumreads are in the middle of the list So i'm just going to assume that means wave,tommy and I are null judging from his wording. So nothing really changed. Everything else feels fake a bland here. Nothing in his previous post indicate a thought process that leads up to this. Also would like to mention he positioned himself where he could vote Invis yesterday if needed but didn't touch it. He also barely interacted with the invis wagon and put himself in a position to lynch it if need be.

VOTE: nos

P:edit
damn that's a lot of post in the time I took to write this.

i find it odd nos is who you decided to push when byron/teacher are being talked about. Nos has been fine imo and as far as "coasting scum" thats tommy's role.

[Tchill13]

i will have to ask some friends after the game is over but i feel like to an experienced eye byron's play this game should be very obviously town. it even lines up with his town meta, if you care about that sort of thing

wave has reached #1 TR status btw.

[Tchill13]

why is byron getting pushed?>

BBT and LEfty specifically.

what does scum have to gain from unvoting a mislynch there when it was very possible if the invis wagon died then byron would be lynched? byron is practically conftown because of that. If he's scum then great play. I don't think he's capable of that though.

[Tchill13]

agenda this day phase:

get a concrete read on Nos.
sort tommy and performer
figure out if BBT is actually town.
Lynch scum.

[Tchill13]

@nos thoughts on byron and bbt?

It comes off as a TvT to me. If either of them were scum it would be byron just off of really cursory VCA, but I'd rather say TvT.

this is good. Now why did you vote Wave? Teacher is looking like scum here imo.

obviously everyone i want to tr can't be town. I'm very alarmed at the ppl pushing byron.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Nos

My points from d1 still stand.

points for tommy for at least sorting nos.

[Tchill13]

i'd like to know where ppl stand on byron and nos specifically.

i think ONE scum was on the invis wagon and only one. That's a town driven lynch which is fine.

Nos why is wave scum?

Tommy whats your thoughts on teacher?

Performer do you have 2 good TR's? Why are they TR's?

im sure some of this was already answered. Sorry if thats the case.

[Tchill13]

ALSO.... Garmr tried to push nos and that was largely ignored. Thats very interesting.

[Tchill13]

Nothing was wrong with your invisibility vote because I was trying to get invisibility lynched. If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm.

It has nothing to do with your nos push.

I'm wondering why your pushing Nas as much as I'm wondering why your push got ignred .

[Tchill13]

I'm not scared of anything. I have no real solid absolute reason to push you yet. I'm very wary of you. You've been very low key, then pushed nos when other names would have been easier to push. Bbt, Byron and teacher has been spoken about and you randomly jumped in with nos.

THEN IT WAS IGNORED COMPLETELY THAT NOS WAS A POSSIBILITY.

Which actually gives me more reason to TR you atm if I look at that information objectively without gut feeling.

So I'm kinda stuck. I feel that you flew the most under the radar d1 but I do like that you pushed nos.

[Tchill13]

Hello ari. I recognize the name. Long time no see.

[Tchill13]

I'm good I hope you are as well.

[Tchill13]

OK if yall weren't pushing Byron then who's scum? Because I don't think Byron unvotes there as scum unless he's scum with invisibility. If invisibility wagon doesn't go through Byron is lynched.

If he's scum that's completely opposite of the "inexperienced" vibe I'm getting from Byron.

[Tchill13]

Scum tingles are just gut feeling due to coasting d1.

[Tchill13]

If you see in one of my last post I actually walk through TR'ing garmr

[Tchill13]

VOTE: nos

This is fine.

[Tchill13]

Lol I hate replace ins

[Tchill13]

yoooo

[Tchill13]

VOTE: teacher

Yeah I don't think nos is scum atm. I think there's a good chance teacher is.

[Tchill13]

first of all you ppl sound like you have cool lives, second of all. i've got large town, scum and null groups. when i go about sorting one something happens that changes that. such as my garmr gut scum feel. that came and went. Nos was the same. Teacher i've been eyeing as scum for a bit.

There's something fishy about nos and garmr i can't quite put my finger on.

I still feel that BBT, Lefty and Byron are town. strongly.

what has gosrir done exactly? Also thoughts on performer as mislynch bait opposed to being scum.

[Tchill13]

if i change my read of lefty it'll solely be because of NM's play style. FYI I'm town locking NM for better or worse.

[Tchill13]

haven't had great history with thta player and im not gonna PL him every time.

[Tchill13]

i agree with that post. kinda weird that you're gonna call out ppl for TR'ing him after you just said his wagon had no weight to it lol. like i agree with that part but why call out ppl TRing him?

[Tchill13]

So it begins.

Garmr confused me apparently. The fact that he said nos was a good wagon is interesting. I'd like to vote teacher before nos.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: garmr

stop with the walls please.

[Tchill13]

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@BBT look at Tchill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

Quite the overreaction if you're town.

[Tchill13]

Garmr is looking scummier the more pressure is put on him.

If garmr is scum Bbt has defended him hard.

[Tchill13]

You think so?

I'll go either way honestly because I highly doubt garmr and nos are the same alignment.

[Tchill13]

Why are you the leading wagon if you're universally town read?

[Tchill13]

i want to TR garmr based off of effort. Im starting to feel this game slow down pretty good.

i think nos or garmr should be the lynch.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: nos

[Tchill13]

He's not gonna post much.

Guys who's scum nos or garmr? And why

[Tchill13]

If we don't lynch nos or garmr, who's the best scum candidate? I say teacher.

[Tchill13]

oh my looooord at the replace outs.

[Tchill13]

You tel me why I should lynch garmr instead of lynching teacher, Tommy or nos and I'll follow.

[Tchill13]

The games current flow is nobody gives a damn.

[Tchill13]

I can't stand that crap.

If we don't lynch garmr and he's actually scum you realize you've failed at persuading ppl right NM? Which is half the game. Which means you'll get no credit for being correct because you're finger pointing actually helps scum garmr here because ppl will just choose to ignore you.

If we don't lynch garmr and he's town then that's fine. You actually protect garmr in that case because you're turning ppl off of voting him.

If we lynch garmr and he's town. Oh that's OK. NM is just playing his meta.

If we lynch garmr and he's scum you expect to be given any kind of credit for that? Because you pointed a finger without reason, but hey that's NM's meta so it's OK he SHOULD get credit because meta meta meta.

FUCKING EXPLAIN YOUR READ for once.

Town will go from there. As soon as NM explains his read I will give 110 percent effort into this game.

I don't expect to be reprimanded or warned for this "attack" because the play here is more damaging as a whole than the attack on NM's philosophy.

No explanation will lead to a PL.

[Tchill13]

ircher practically had a free license here. i hard TR'd Byron and as such i'll continue to believe ircher is town. I'll need a case on garmr from him though.

[Tchill13]

ari is null because i had gus as null. Lefty was town but NM is there now and thats fun. NM is probably town.

[Tchill13]

Im amazed nobody has done VCA on the lynch yet. The one thing that we all know for sure is that Invis is town. We have also discussed whether there was one or two scum on the wagon. I think two, alot of you think one. Even if youre right and Im wrong, the one scum was likely in place early -- its a town wagon that stayed as a leader for days and acquired a certain air of inevitability. So lets go to the video tape.

VC lynch -5

Invisibility

(3):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla

VC lynch -4

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla, BlueBloodedToffee

VC lynch -3

Invisibility

(3):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla

VC lynch -1

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla,Tchill13

THE CLAIM HAPPENED HERE, at 733.

VC lynch -5hrs

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

Tchill13, Tommy Egan

VC lynch

Invisibility

(7):

Garmr, Performer,

Tchill13, Tommy Egan, Gustavo, Gosrir Elmer Odels, BlueBloodedToffee

What makes this persistency particularly interesting is that the only person to really push the wagon, at least until the claim, was TChill. Garmr pushed a bit from 500-550 (particularly to Wave and Gus); Performer didnt really push much at all. This difference, as well as their other general play/lurking, is why I scummed Performer and towned Garmr. But nobody was interested in Performer when I pushed them earlier today, and Garmr is a leading wagon. Will someone voting Garmr explain a case -- if there has been one, I missed it.

this is good. it also explains how byron could be scum. if performer or garmr flip scum byron could very well be scum that got off because he didn't want 2, possibly 3, scum on the wagon. this adds a little weight to the garmr finger pointing.

[Tchill13]

i have ignored all the wall post and most of the last 10 pages btw. i'll have to reread.

[Tchill13]

man sitting on town for 500ish post looks odd d1. No sorting. No pressure. No use of a players best weapon (their vote) to figure players out for a majority of d1.

[Tchill13]

of course ppl will say they did that despite not moving their vote but words bear no weight without action.

[Tchill13]

I honestly wouldn't mind a Nos lynch tbh. He feels like a scum slot that's coasting by. He hasn't made any real hard pushes.
His scum reads

{invis, GEO, performer}

are pretty much regurgitated from general Concensus which he added nothing new.

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Also chuck a few towns reads like byron and gus

So his previous scumreads are in the middle of the list So i'm just going to assume that means wave,tommy and I are null judging from his wording. So nothing really changed. Everything else feels fake a bland here. Nothing in his previous post indicate a thought process that leads up to this. Also would like to mention he positioned himself where he could vote Invis yesterday if needed but didn't touch it. He also barely interacted with the invis wagon and put himself in a position to lynch it if need be.

VOTE: nos

P:edit
damn that's a lot of post in the time I took to write this.

Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today.
VOTE: nosferatu

Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.

I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.

VOTE: garm

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

VOTE: Performer/vote]
Oh my god you suck

But on a serious note you seem to give off a buddy buddy vibe with your posts 26/39

VOTE: Performer

So it registers on the vc correctly, if you still use the automated approach.

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

I was looking at order of listed, not color. To me it looks like TChill is his 3rd highest scum read, so I was curious about that. If they're just grouped by color and not in any particular order - then ignore my question.

The colours normally mean reads green-town, black-null and red-scum. I'm not sure if they are ordered but even if they are it wouldn't necessarily means he scums reads him. What do you think he should be higher on the list?

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"

FOS: gustavo

This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.

Lefty: posting gives me a town tone such as the ones where he asks questions, like the one posed to Nos about the point of his post. I also like his interrogation of bbt on pg 4.

Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.

Garmr: rvs voted him because he was the last one to the game - hence I suspected him lurking. Shows up, omgus votes me & said I was buddying someone??, later puts up a sharp interrogation post to chill, on pg 4. His questioning and other posts, make me think he's got a sensible head on his shoulders in figuring out the game.

Chill: voted me & mentioned pushing a lurker... what in the? I’ve posted literally just yesterday when the game first began. What’s your definition of lurking?
I like his posting overall, he certainly is proactive like bbt. But other posts like not wanting to lynch specific people, posts like that make me wonder wth? If anything, I'll chalk it up to personal bias, as I have biases too on fm.

Teacher: voted bbt since he didn’t provide reasoning….but it was only pg 3 by that time.

---------------
That's what I got so far.

RED FLAGS.

so performer and garmr only voted each other or they BOTH voted invis d1. Well that seems odd because why would you vote with your only other read that you were compelled to vote d1? Why only vote 2 players d1? Then you sit on that vote with the other guy for most of d1...

IS this why Byron got off after the claim? That way all 3 scum weren't on the wagon d1? Now this is a stretch for sure. It's feasible though.

[Tchill13]

damn it... the first 4 quotes are day 2 posts. They both vote nos together though? then performer votes garmr AGAIN!!!

[Tchill13]

Votecount 1.13 - FINAL

Invisibility

(7): Garmr, Performer, Tchill13, Tommy Egan, Gustavo, Gosrir Elmer Odels, BlueBloodedToffee

Gosrir Elmer Odels

(2): Invisibility, Nosferatu

Performer

(1): wavemode

Gustavo

(1): teacher

ByronVilla

(1): Lefty

Not Voting

(1): ByronVilla

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-06-25 14:45:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends
• Gustavo on V/LA

1 of wave, teacher, lefty is probably scum voting off the lynch.

there's definitely a possibility of a garmr/performer team atm.

I could see 1 of BBT, Tommy, Gus as scum.

i'll have to reset on this game.

[Tchill13]

damn it... the first 4 quotes are day 2 posts. They both vote nos together though? then performer votes garmr AGAIN!!!

I'm quite happy to vote performer. I think If nos is town the people jumping between me and nos (aka you and performer) contains atleast 1 scum as both of you have been playing both sides of the fence with little reasoning. Performer and you are likely to be scum no matter how me or nos flips. But if nos flips town (because I will) I would recommend town to guarantee a lynch between you two ignoring everyone else. But if nos flips scum I would want town to watch both you closely.

im working towards lynching performer atm. Thats a fine read form you it makes sense. fyi since im doing a reset i will take responsibility for my actions but i HAVE NOT been staying on top of the game. Even when i post.

[Tchill13]

I like teacher's d1 play. That's a TR. Seemed like they sorted enough.

if im correct about who gus actually is (i can almost gaurantee that i am, they'd argue it even if i was right) then that slot is town.

[Tchill13]

I'll vote Performer if Garmr does

i'll quack like a duck if you can construct multiple sentences.

[Tchill13]

pls dont quote huge post lol. Not quoting that i'd still recognize what you were talking about.

that being said i'd rather lynch performer than you garmr. I'd practically rather lynch anyone than you, even if you're scum, because you're actually playing the game and you would have 2 teammates.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: performer

reasonably likely this is scum

still reading

Why is it scum?

At which point he decided to leave it and move onto pastures new (despite the read only changing slightly [his words]).

Well I don't want to hold onto childish grudges, and if I kept tunneling on you I wasn't going to get us anywhere was I?

I'm not sure what it is with this post tbhbut it screams scum to me

Can someone explain to me why Performer is better to lynch than Teacher?

Can you explain why teacher is better than performer?

for the record they're not ordered merely color coded

BlueBloodedToffee

ByronVilla

Lefty

Gosrir Elmer Odels

Nosferatu

Garmr
Invisibility
Gustavo
Tchill13

Tommy Egan

Performer

teacher

Why have I got from null to scum without a post?

performer is my top scumread?

I didn't know that

He did. He said he saw that I thought Byron was scum but didn't see why.

Is that a stance to you? That doesn't mean anything. He made no conclusions as to the probable alignments of either of you. "I dunno" is not a stance.

These are so bad, nos can I have a readslist if there isn't one between pages 21 onwards.

Its day 1. That’s exactly the kind of person that’s acceptable to lynch day 1 especially when their content is not town

No, it isn't. We lynch scum, and we lynch scum who actually have content to analyze.

Performer either steps his shit up or he gets replaced. Lynching him D1 is sub-optimal play at the very least.

Agree that performer shouldn't be the lynch

The intention is clearly there and now I have kicked up a fuss about it nobody will be leaving is easily/quietly.

I have forced people on the wagon to defend their position on it. They had the chance to get off - and didn't take it. Now they're committed.

yeah ok but there was no reason to do this. People don't get lynched on page 18.

Don't they? Fuck it you're scum to me now.

Thanks all of you, and I also get where youre coming from. TBH, its the part of this site's meta that I like the least, but it could be because I have a much different approach to the game. I have a smart phone and read throughout the day, but I dont get much meaning out of that. To get reads/meaning, I prefer to really ruminate on the posts and the dialog, which I can only do with about five tabs open and switching between ISO views and live thread views on a desktop. Maybe Im over-efforting it and that's why my reads suck, I dont know.

I do know that someone way earlier today said they didnt like Performer's 211 and that is something I would like to understand better, just to see the different techniques of reading it. I also recall that Gus asked me questions about withholding information that I will be responding too. But far far more than that has taken place, without being absorbed through the mini-screen.

There are games with lesser prods and post restrictions on this site too if that suits you more. See the geriatric russet.

I also need to reread and process all the posts from this afternoon but I’m at work now so it’ll take a bit.

Off the top Tommy is beginning to concern me, as is Wavemode. Need to reread GEO cause I have no clue what they’re talking about. Byron is maybe a bit less of a TR pending my reread.

BBT/TChill never get lynched so long as I’m alive.

I was beginning to concern you about 10 pages before this too. At least be consistent and advance me to a scumread

wagons stalled because scum don't want to lynch either.

Yeah that's totally the only reason

now is this some sort of a shotgun questioning to SEEM like tommy is sorting or is it actually a towny scum hunting?

[Tchill13]

@NM

quoting and constructing are probably 2 different things. I do know you're not an idiot. I've seen you have good reads. Your style helps scum more than it does town. Makes the game easy to play as scum.

so im gonna accuse you of holding (your explanations) back as town to make the game easier for you as scum. Because ik you're not an idiot. Thats a post game discussion though.

[Tchill13]

Like I tr lefty, Gus and garmr, I lean town on BBT

Performer and Teacher i aint sure on and don't see there lynches providing much in terms of information just yet so will try sort them more d2. Which of these players exactly do you object to not being in my lynch pool?

this is a food read list at that point in the game. Tommy had also already pointed out that nos was active lurking, which I agree with, and that it's alarming ppl were TR'ing Nos. These are good signs from Tommy.

[Tchill13]

It won't be a discussion when I don't respond

kinda like how its not a game when you avoid 50 percent of the game (solving and persuading), refuse to interact with others unless it's only out of spite, use meta as a license to play the game incorrectly, yadda yadda yadda.

[Tchill13]

I don't like the fact he doesn't prefer to lynch ANY ppl d1 that will probably make it to lylo if they're town.

Why is that an issue? Lol

@tommy are you boon?

No

VOTE: Invis

L-1 claim time.

I understand that my approach to d1's are... questionable and when pushed to an extreme they're probably not healthy (never lylos, least info d1). So i just wanted to make sure it was known i was aware of that.

Why leave Nos to vote invis here? In actuality Nos was probably the best lynch d1.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Nos

My points from d1 still stand.

Thinking Tchill is town now.

Nos scum, Teacher scum

it's good that tommy picks up the nos push early d2. Why is teacher scum?

im fine with calling tommy town.

[Tchill13]

Can someone explain to me why Performer is better to lynch than Teacher?

First things first, the most important new thing I've got right now, is that my townread on wavemode has been solidified. His comments from around the Invis wagon were definitely coming from a genuine PoV.

2nd: point is that everything said about teacher before the lynch is still valid. There's no change there, so
VOTE: teacher.
This is nothing new, though.

Thirdly, BV's 912 & 917 do contradict each other, quite blatantly, but I fail to see why that's indicative of him being scum.

@Tommy: You could've just read the game & made a post relevant to the current gamestate. Instead of what you ended up doing.
I reread the "Nos case." It's not a case.

@teacher: Add your Perf read to the list of things I'd like to hear more about. Early on you had Performer as a townread. You said in 500 you didn't like the wagon on him. What happened?

@BBT: I'm kind of in the middle of something, but here's something: (no particular order within lines.)

WM, NM, TC, BV, Perf. The last two are kind of the same flavour, namely that they're just very enthusiastically making bad (not scummy bad, just bad) posts. BV more so than Perf. BV's actually got worse this day, even though you'd expect the opposite to happen if he'd had scumbuddies to teach him a few things during the night.

(Perf, kinda), BBT, Garmr. I'd have you as null, but some of the people I somewhat trust in this game seem to townread you.

Nos, Aristo. I used to like Nos's 488, but it didn't actually lead anywhere. If he's really about townhunting, he should be more transparent about his townreads. Garmr does have some points about him, he has been coasting, but I'm not sure how scummy that is. For Aristo I have this crackpot theory that Gus tried to make his slut look townier by trying to make his replace out seem to come from out of frustration in 873. I'm not sure about that. Aristo himself hasn't done much, though.

teacher, Tommy. Teacher's Gus vote seemed opportunistic, & his later posts kept giving me this trying-to-guess-what-the-others-want-to-hear feel. I want to see what happens to his readlist after some cross-questions. I didn't like Tommy's catch-up post, the quote-wall from the very start of the game felt like a gimmick to look town, & it had little to offer in terms of content. (BTW, for some reason I remembered he'd been universally townread at the time, but actually only Invis townread him.) He hasn't really been better since then. In 1040 he seems to pretend he pushed Nos D1, I guess.

@Nos: The burden of proof is on your shoulders: Where do you have a townread that was presented in a persuasive way? You might be townhunting, but if so, then not in a way in which town could actually benefit from it.

@Garmr: Could you tell me about your read on Tommy? Why are you townreading him?

Should I address Perf? He seems to have thought Aristo was laughing at the idea that Gus was trying to make his replace out look town (as opposed to the typo I made.) He also seems to think that Gus replaced out b/c of being a toddler allegedly (alleged by Perf), not b/c he had RL issues, even though it's been pretty well established. (The first point is interesting, I guess. I'll ISO him during the weekend b/c I don't have time to do that earlier.)

Garmr's town, Nos's scum.

VOTE: Nos

this thought process on nos seems genuine. GEO also seems like he's sorting a good bit. GEO is more than likely town. I'd just like to know what put the nail in the coffin for voting NOS over voting teacher? @GEO.

[Tchill13]

I challenge anyone to produce reasoning or justify Tommy's L-1 vote and force of claim from Invis.

I'll wait.

that's why i asked. Of cousre its easy to come up with a decent excuse there.

Why are you hung up on that? Are you convinced that makes him scum?

[Tchill13]

@Garmr hopefully i dont seem hypocritical about making wall posts while i do a catch up. I hope you can understand why im mkaing all the quotes here and objected to others. Not trying to be a jerk lol.

[Tchill13]

{invis, GEO, performer} can go.

Using my opinion on game speed isn't bad logic, it is straight up stupidity as my opinion is completely unrelated to my alignment.

are you completely aware of the game we're playing my dude?

I feel like you're not reading the game properly when I see comments like this. Gus has fully defended his position as being based on content, as has Wave. Nos refused to leave the wagon despite claiming that Peformer isn't even his top scum read.

I didn't refuse...it's not like anyone asked me to and I said "nah fam"

I'm not satisfied with what this wagon has gotten so far and quite frankly I don't even think it'll give much more

VOTE: GEO <-- not my top scumread either if you were wondering.

I'm not trying to approach this game from a readlist perspective like I usually do, but I'll do it once to give perspective

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Normally I start from the middle and branch out but I wanted to start from the bottom and grow up instead, so the bottom rung isn't necessarily just the scummiest of the earth to me, but instead they're people that haven't shown themselves as town, since the number of things I'm juggling at once right now sorta necessitates townhunting in most of my games.

pedit: see i knew you would ask that so ^^^

Then you lie. Or withhold information.

Unless you're scum, then you can just spout some shit that you think will look town.

you have a point, but if there enough votes on a slot that they're in danger of getting lolhammered, the knowledge that there is a pressure vote is not exactly gamebreaking. I also didn't ask him any questions and he's aware I stuck on performer's wagon just because I could, so in this context it didn't really matter.

I don't see the progression on performer here and i'd like to know how he went from "he can go" to closer to the top of players "that have shown themselves to be town"

[Tchill13]

@Garmr hopefully i dont seem hypocritical about making wall posts while i do a catch up. I hope you can understand why im mkaing all the quotes here and objected to others. Not trying to be a jerk lol.

That's fine lol I'm making a post showing the link between you and performer at the moment.

im very ok with performer being the lynch atm fyi.

[Tchill13]

Votecount 1.13 - FINAL

Invisibility

(7): Garmr, Performer, Tchill13, Tommy Egan, Gustavo, Gosrir Elmer Odels, BlueBloodedToffee

Gosrir Elmer Odels

(2): Invisibility, Nosferatu

Performer

(1): wavemode

Gustavo

(1): teacher

ByronVilla

(1): Lefty

Not Voting

(1): ByronVilla

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-06-25 14:45:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends
• Gustavo on V/LA

Nos posted a trio of invis, GEO, performer that "could go". Nos voted GEO and said "not my top scumread btw". Nos wasn't on the invis wagon. Wouldn't that lead ppl to believe that Performer was his biggest SR? Performer is closer to the top of that "shown themselves to be town" list though?

So where's the progression on performer?

[Tchill13]

I'm halfway though Nos's ISO.

Town: Ari, Gosris, Tommy, Ircher.

Null: Teacher (could see a path for teacher to be scum but from teacher's iso i believed teacher was town)

Scum: looking like i want to lynch either (Nos/performer) today.

Haven't fully isoed: Nos, Performer, Wave, BBT, LEfty/NM

[Tchill13]

that's why i asked. Of cousre its easy to come up with a decent excuse there.

Why are you hung up on that? Are you convinced that makes him scum?

I'm not hung up on it - it's just one part of my case on Tommy. It is however an imporant part at a pivotal moment in the game.

Why does he vote Invis over BV? It's such a critical (opportunistic?) time to vote and force a claim on somebody he has shown 0 interest in. That doesn't set off a red flag for you?

I'm not gonna answer for him so i'll hold off on that situation. Tommy made a very understandable push on Nos early D1. Tommy picked it right back up D2. Tommy put a player that (I was tunneling atm) was probably gonna get lynched regardless at L-1. Byron was the only legitimate option as a counter wagon at that point... I just think you're reading into it too much. Personally. HE seems to be sum hunting. Only red flag like i said was sometimes its easy for scum to ask a plethora of random questions to make it LOOK like scum hunting.

[Tchill13]

decent case. You're wrong, but its decent and i can see the connections. I hopped on every wagon d1 im pretty sure. I definitely pushed invis as hard as i pushed performer.

I feel that you're making the case ik he's scum because maybe you know hes scum? lol. Maybe you really do believe the connections. I'd be hesitant to insta lynch you right after performer though since at this point your digging your own grave after my flip IF in fact performer is your scum bussy, which is a bad plan and highly unlikely.

I's looking more like Nos/Performer. Of course i'll have more info after i iso performer. I should have went to bed an hour ago lol.

[Tchill13]

Nosferatu - has changed from sr to tr for me because he’s trying to talk to gustavo, such as on pg 24. Their interaction causes me to think nos is trying to lessen the cluttering in the thread. Scum would want to cause chaos, speed up a day to lessen information gleaned, and/or stall a day for strategic reason. I don’t get that tone from nos in the nos & gus interaction.

BBT, Lefty

lean town on invis

Gosrir, Gus, Tommy Egan, Wave

lean scum on byron, Nosferatu, Performer, Teacher

Did your read on nos change since 349?

I was not understanding the case on teacher so I did an ISO on him .
@teacher: based on your ISO, you've been solid on gust being scum for awhile, since 213. Any changes on that read?
Also, who are your other sr and why?

Nos why did you sr garmr? Garm , I think nos is town - my read on him hasn't changed since I last posted about him.

The posts on pg 38 are alarming. Hmm.

"I don't really ask questions for the purpose of forming reads. Pretty rarely at least."
I can back that up regarding nos when he's town. Iirc, we played at least 1 mini normal years ago where as town, he played with a minimalist style with minimal questioning.

@bbt regarding the byron v bbt, I felt like I was the only person thinking byron was town and you were possibly....scummy.....
The issue is I still have you at null, which is not that surprising because you have been pushing for my tr deaths. First asking people to get on lefty, later voting gustavo slot, , saying gustavo slot is still scummy on d2, and now voting byron.
However, I'm well aware one of my liabilities is that I strongly dislike pushing for my idols' deaths & I have problems reading them , which is why I've been seeking feedback from others. If you & I make it to mylo or lylo somehow, that is one of my worst nightmares because I will be a big liability.
Also, I completely expected you to die on n1 but you are alive, so I have been growing paranoid as to why you're alive. When we played in a mini normal a couple years ago, you died immediately on n1, and we were both town. So, I am going to lose my mind .

Also @chill, I forgot about your question, sorry about that. From the notes I made yesterday , I think you, nos, lefty, byron, and tommy (slight tr) were on my tr side. I moved garm to null because of his push on nos, which has been interesting to say the least.

I need to reread a few of the wall posts on this page & parse through them .

Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today.
VOTE: nosferatu

Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.

I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.

VOTE: garm

VOTE: nos

im not voting performer here. Nos's iso shows more scum motivation imo than performers iso as far as comparing iso ON THEIR OWN regardless to connections with others.

I really, really liked the fact that performer hard defended nos and showed good progression to the nos SR.

I didn't like the fact that he quickly voted garmr afterwards.

ik this is gonna "line up" with garmrs perf/tchill case. I really don't care.

[Tchill13]

I think part of my problem here is my dislike of quotewalls.

I'm gonna get off mobile and see if this is better on a computer because, like, I simply don't care when I see quotewalls.

It was vital for my catch up and the only reason I did them. Sorry.

[Tchill13]

nos is town

Why? Idc for statements that don't have anything to back them up.

[Tchill13]

Performer hasn't shown anything from HIM to make me believe he's scum over nos. When you look st associations sure he can definitely be scum but I actually see why nos could be scum under his own actions.

[Tchill13]

OK with that in mind what do you think about Tommy pushing nos consistently?

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Nos
Getting the feeling Garmr is actually Town this game.

Why does TR'ing garmr equal scum nos?

[Tchill13]

In what world do scum do exactly what you expect them to do?

[Tchill13]

Wtf are you doing doing a pg by pg analysis?

[Tchill13]

Im new to normals, but I checked the previous lynch wagons and had not seen it. I guess I will take your word for it, but that makes me want to revisit my associational analysis since I had based part of my reads of the assumption they would not.

Seemed like you knew what you were talking about when you accused me of being drunk.

[Tchill13]

Umm only reason I double voted nos was because I reset in between those votes and did multiple breakdowns of different players. I didn't know who I was voting before I did the breakdowns. This game had become quite dull and I was hardly keeping up with it.

[Tchill13]

Hey guys,

Which wagon composition is scummier?

Nos'

Why nos?

[Tchill13]

I would never have imagined three scum voting sequentially and staying together, which is what your posts implied. I still can’t imagine it but have three slots telling me it’s possible. Before I say it’s not possible I want to research a broader swath of games. Let’s just say I am still dubious but wanted to pull back on how hard my statement came out before I do that research.

That's fine. The scenario I provided is unlikely in the fact scum would consecutively vote a wagon together.

It's normal for scum to vote park and sit on town all day. It's normal for scum to fake a disagreement to distance from each other.

It's not exactly normal for town to vote WITH their major scum read for a majority of the day.

Now because of my play style I'll hop on every wagon that arises on a normal basis d1 regardless of who's pushing it. I'm consistent with that in this game and others.

I don't believe performer or garmr have shown a similar consistency.c

Garmr doesn't HAVE to be scum if performer is.

Besides nos has shown mores scum motivation on his own than performer has. Regardless of pre flip associations.