Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Garmr]

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

VOTE: Performer/vote]
Oh my god you suck

But on a serious note you seem to give off a buddy buddy vibe with your posts 26/39

[Garmr]

VOTE: Performer

So it registers on the vc correctly, if you still use the automated approach.

[Garmr]

if the team was gosrir, byron and teacher that'd be pretty funny... oh well. just so you know i think guessing teams is stupid day 1 but ppl do it allll the time.

im not lynching bbt today though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until day 2 possibly 3. Yes it's solely because i understand his style early which is a very easy style to manipulate as scum early. I'm giving him a chance above everything else i've seen though.

Tr-BBT

Scum-Teacher

no reads in between.

BBT seems to have the same mindset I do early. Pretty much any and every townie is expendable days 1 and 2. Wagon reasoning doesnt matter until theres an actual reason to wagon (a reason that can be validated).

These two clash against each other. Didn't you say "It doesn't matter if a townie gets lynched day 1 according to you as they are expendable?" Your words imply that BBT isn't expendable till a certain day or so. Why is BBT different from others.

Also why are you town reading BBT. Nothing in your speech implies you think BBT is town at most it should be a null read. What town actions taken by BBT justify a BBT town read in your eyes, especially if you are giving him the benefit of a doubt (which implies you think his actions are scummy but giving him a pass)?

Being a easy mislynch isn't a legit reason to town read someone.

I have a couple of reasons why I think there's a discrepancy between your mentality as described by you and your actual actions but I would rather hear it untainted from your mouth.

[Garmr]

The voters on the Performer, Gustavo and Garmr wagons should choose between myself and teacher.

Those are the two wagons of choice (hint: choose teacher!) Let's go!

Why the day has just begun. Both wagons are kinda flimsy.

Most of teachers post have been fluffy so far, but it's rvs/comming out of rvs so that's to be forgiven. Also a quick look at his games that have finished shows he post not really a fluffy poster as either alignment so going to see what happens. His post 106 is meh but nothing screams scum about it.

BBT is trying to take the lead and steer the game in his ideal way. This is neither town or scummy and the scum reads on him seem like rvs. I see no reason to jump on him.

Also

FOS

on invisibility for being so jumpy..

P:Edit (teacher has arisen)

[Garmr]

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

Can you explain why you have Teacher & TChill so low?

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

[Garmr]

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

I was looking at order of listed, not color. To me it looks like TChill is his 3rd highest scum read, so I was curious about that. If they're just grouped by color and not in any particular order - then ignore my question.

The colours normally mean reads green-town, black-null and red-scum. I'm not sure if they are ordered but even if they are it wouldn't necessarily means he scums reads him. What do you think he should be higher on the list?

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

[Garmr]

if the team was gosrir, byron and teacher that'd be pretty funny... oh well. just so you know i think guessing teams is stupid day 1 but ppl do it allll the time.

im not lynching bbt today though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until day 2 possibly 3. Yes it's solely because i understand his style early which is a very easy style to manipulate as scum early. I'm giving him a chance above everything else i've seen though.

Tr-BBT

Scum-Teacher

no reads in between.

BBT seems to have the same mindset I do early. Pretty much any and every townie is expendable days 1 and 2. Wagon reasoning doesnt matter until theres an actual reason to wagon (a reason that can be validated).

These two clash against each other. Didn't you say "It doesn't matter if a townie gets lynched day 1 according to you as they are expendable?" Your words imply that BBT isn't expendable till a certain day or so. Why is BBT different from others.

Also why are you town reading BBT. Nothing in your speech implies you think BBT is town at most it should be a null read. What town actions taken by BBT justify a BBT town read in your eyes, especially if you are giving him the benefit of a doubt (which implies you think his actions are scummy but giving him a pass)?

Being a easy mislynch isn't a legit reason to town read someone.

I have a couple of reasons why I think there's a discrepancy between your mentality as described by you and your actual actions but I would rather hear it untainted from your mouth.

every townie is expendable until from my own perspective have a reason to not vote them. BBT's style of play and reads are similar to mine. I understand the motivation he has for playing the way he does i do the same all the time. That is a reason for me to TR him (I do not build "reads" the same as others d1) I hand out hard TR's day 1 to ppl ik and/or ppl im comfortable to be able to read by day 3. If BBT is town then great, if he's not im confident enough in myself to figure that out later. Clearing the game of townies that will always be in my lynch pool d1 is almost as useful as lynching actual scum seeing how scum will not be able to take advantage of certain town players anymore.

Yeah town is expendable I get it. But saying I won't lynch BBT day 1 so early on in the game then say maybe day 2 or 3 Just doesn't sit right. For example, he could do something extremely scummy and you could change your mind.

If his a hard town read like you say then phrases like "benefit of the doubt" are out of place. It's like you want wriggle room to lynch him on a further date; Town wouldn't need to announce that.

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

this is interesting. Why am i so close to teacher and so far from BBT?

I also don't like the mentality of you sewing yourself to BBT. Like "if you town read BBT you have to town read me." I honestly don't think you are coming from a town place.

[Garmr]

VOTE: performer

You shown you have reads why vote someone who hasn't posted since rvs and with out explanation?

[Garmr]

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

are you saying this just because i was in a lot of wagons early game?

You jumped on wagons that were taking off and it was obvious that people were taking BBT side in the debate, so you shifted your vote there thinking it would take off. The only vote you seem to do some thought for yourself was Gosrir Elmer Odels. Even then it was vague (bad post) and wasn't expanded on. Also you don't seem interested in pushing reads or really even sticking to them.

[Garmr]

also @garmr

not sewing myself. We have similar reads. I just wanted a reason.

if you don't think im coming from a town place thats fine. My style is weird d1 and this is a major change up. I haven't put effort into a d1 in idk how long but i wanted to see how i'd do. I will try to be transparent for others though. all i ask is you TRY look at my motivations not my style.

I can give you a reason every scum player should know.

Similar reads doesn't = same alignment. You could have a townie and someone who's scum have the same votes/reads out an entire game.

Also i'm looking past your style to look for intentions which is why attributed it TO them.

-The fact you have the emphasise your town read may change isn't to do with intentions.
-Showing uncertainty in a comment into a hard town read so you can vote them latter is looking into intentions
-Latter asking why aren't I closer to BBT makes it seem like you have some untown intentions.

[Garmr]

VOTE: performer

You shown you have reads why vote someone who hasn't posted since rvs and with out explanation?

idk you tell me? what POSSIBLE reason could i have for stating my reads then naked voting someone not on that list? could it be to form a new read? maybe to poke a lurker and see how they react?

im not making fun. the level of simple questions is pretty high in this game. idk what you expect me to say that you couldn't possibly figure out on your own.

letting ppl slide through d1 isn't how to play d1.

It's only the first day in real time I wouldn't call him a lurker. You also don't vote people to form reads you ask them questions, blank votes do nothing. Do people have no patience on mafia scum anymore? But if getting a reaction was your purpose you got a reaction out of me.

[Garmr]

-The fact you have

to

emphasise your town read may change,

is

to do with intentions.

Fixed

[Garmr]

That performer wagon is coming along...

Let’s make it bigger.

VOTE: performer

As I said he’s either scum or VI and I’m perfectly fine with either lynch. If he’s town I’m not going to trust or want to hear anything he’s going to say after his display of

bigotry.

This is off subject. But what bigotry I didn't see any?

[Garmr]

BBT/performer scumteam yea nay?

Yeah I was getting that vibe but it seems too obvious for me. I don't see Scum!BBT going out of his way to protect Performer but it's a possibility.

In my experience it's rarer for scum to protect a team mate than a townie. If one were to flip scum I would be more inclined to feel the other is town. On the other hand a town flip says nothing about the others alignment.

On a side note I need to give myself a kick up the ass and give this all a reread. Building up the motivation to give a proper read of the stuff I missed because of time zone differences is draining. It's a shame I can't stay up every night till 5 am to catch it while it's fresh.

[Garmr]

Nearly finished compiling my thoughts of BBT (which took me like 2 hours to with the content his posted.) But what I noticed is, how much of a struggle it's to get a Invisibility lynch; (Maybe I should be pushing harder admittedly) despite nearly no one town reading him and people disliking his content. It's feels like it's been a slow grind compared to other wagons that pop up in a flash.


Anyone want to give me reasoning as to why he shouldn't be lynched Today?

[Garmr]

@Tommy edgan

Have a question for you, have you town read gustav? If so when did you first town read him and why?

[Garmr]

When did Invis go from a town lean back to null? Garmr and TChill haven’t done anything AI yet iyo?

Garmr and Invis dropped to null because i raised the bar somewhat. both were green based on some small thing i noticed that i liked but in the grand scheme of things after rereading the game i decided it was too hasty for me to make that designation. both of them have play in this game that could easily be faked by scum. so, even though if i were guessing, i wouldn't put them in the scumteam, i also wouldn't directly oppose their lynches at this stage

Tchill has done very little this game that I feel particularly good about. you could see a lot of it as just regular play, or you could see it as scum forming alliances and setting up for the long game. only time will tell

If invis has dropped to null why not join me in lynching him?

[Garmr]

If invis has dropped to null why not join me in lynching him?

Because we still have 11 days and there's other lynches i would prefer to see? obviously discussions about compromise will happen if the deadline starts to wind down

it's not a compromise when you are hitting scum.

[Garmr]

What's this new slang (AI) you kids use on mafia these days.

[Garmr]

damn, maybe I should go to the lemony snicket school of wolf hunting so I can be a consistent scum hunting player like you are...

I know you are being sarcastic about him being inconsistent, but scum tend to be the most consistent with their arguments as they care about their looks while town are more likely to hold people at different standards due to things players may of done or the personality of the player.

[Garmr]

Finally got through the two biggest posters iso's. BBT and Gustavo. It took me this long to read up on gustavo.

Gosh gustavo all you have done is whinge.

1.You scum read people for calling your ideals scummy and say "if they are towns they are just village idiots" to justify a vote on them. You litrally tell invisble that bad logic doesn't = scum.

2.You constantly defend your own appearance even throwing shade at others to defend yourself (post 554).

3.You rarely show any reads on people unless they are

Your actions are really bad that I have trouble pulling alignment out of them. Your actions are so bad it causes doubts in my head that you are scum making it hard to see your alignment.

Also if you are fine with a early day and lynching a VI then why are you so opposed to lynching Invisibility. Because in your eyes invisibility is low hanging fruit is the difference because his town? Oh wait earlier his scum he only becomes low hanging fruit when you need to defend yourself. So invisibility is scum and low hanging fruit but it's scummy to vote him???

Can I ask in your words how do you think your actions are contributing towards town?

[Garmr]

3.You rarely show any reads on people unless they engage with you. Your not proactively looking outside your little sphere.

[Garmr]

Pretty tired and want sleep so I will chuck my unstructured notes on bluebloodedtoffee instead.

[Garmr]

Ottors vs Penguins-town game
*BBT* generic points of interest
-BBT protecting Performer not likely scum together.

-post 45 wants to drive a counter wagon and get the game going.

-Post 57 Sarcastic response if he should give a reason or not.

-Post 59 Thinks Byron and Invisibility may interesting post. Brings two into spotlight. Implied scum read on invisibility.

-post78-Calls Tchill post good starting interactions between them. Wants to push leftys wagon because of game state. Unsure of teachers thought process.

Note-1 funny that he keeps pushing leftys wagon when he seems to of shown a scum read on invisibility.

Post-80 admits his pushing to get a reaction out of lefty.

Note-2 To my future self. I don’t think that’s the entire intention of post 80 through. The town motivation seems like a pseudo slayer gambit to see how everyone reacts. Scum motivation may be to show town how much he doesn’t care about being lynched and would result in a town read from mediocre townies.

post 84- Shows dedication to his strategy. His being open about it as well. Maybe his afraid he will get lynched so he shows an out or feels it’s fulfilled its purpose.

Post 93-adopts tchill reasoning for voting teacher which were pretty bad in my opinion. Town reads him. Lefty is town read here and I have to agree.

A lot of posts-argument with byran is bs and is a waste of space and fluff.

Post 123 -pushes wave for information.

post 157- Light pushes invisibility for reason to vote.

Post 232-pushes teacher more

Note-3 hypocritical about giving information probably a townie aspect.

246-Legitmate question to 246

249-Pushes Byron

263-vote gust

287-unsure on gos mixed signals

288- Tells gust that his robotic

329-inis vote

340- 1 scum in Byron/lefty/invis 1 scum Nosferatu/Teacher/performer/tommy egan

358-town read twave out of the blue admits he doesn’t know why.


BBT Vote pattern
-Rvs Lefty
-Teacher
-Gustavo
-Invisible


Overveiw 1. Most likely town has been driving the game forward. Throws obvious bait but what surprises me is people are falling for it.



Tommy Egan-generic points of interest

[Garmr]

@Tommy edgan

Have a question for you, have you town read gustav? If so when did you first town read him and why?

Answer this please.

[Garmr]

Im assuming thats not for me?

Nope tommy edgan

[Garmr]

Im not asking you to move (Ive said Id hammer invis) but who is your next best? Im trying to sort outside my favorite right now.

Well tchill is my next best. Before I was dead set he was scum but as the day has dragged on i'm a little less sure of myself. I haven't gave him the bbt/gusta treatment and put him in my notes yet.

[Garmr]

Finally got through the two biggest posters iso's. BBT and Gustavo. It took me this long to read up on gustavo.

Gosh gustavo all you have done is whinge.

1.You scum read people for calling your ideals scummy and say "if they are towns they are just village idiots" to justify a vote on them. You litrally tell invisble that bad logic doesn't = scum.

2.You constantly defend your own appearance even throwing shade at others to defend yourself (post 554).

3.You rarely show any reads on people unless they engage with you. Your not proactively looking outside your little sphere.

Your actions are really bad that I have trouble pulling alignment out of them. Your actions are so bad it causes doubts in my head that you are scum making it hard to see your alignment.

Also if you are fine with a early day and lynching a VI then why are you so opposed to lynching Invisibility. Because in your eyes invisibility is low hanging fruit is the difference because his town? Oh wait earlier his scum he only becomes low hanging fruit when you need to defend yourself. So invisibility is scum and low hanging fruit but it's scummy to vote him???

Can I ask in your words how do you think your actions are contributing towards town?

ok Let me respond to this

1. I assume you are referring to performer here, and I think this is kind of unfair. Performer is using something non game relevant and implying it is. He is basically saying my opinion of game speed is alignment indicative when it isn't. I have to make an opinion on him based on that. I don't see why town would do something like that so to me I think it is scum trying to cast shade on me. If I am somehow wrong, I absolutely believe he is a VI. This imo is different than the invisible situation. If performer thought I was scum or scummy for my random votes, then I could accuse him of bad logic. Using my opinion on game speed isn't bad logic, it is straight up stupidity as my opinion is completely unrelated to my alignment.

2. I don't really understand this one, and there is no 554. The closest is maybe 544 and I am not shading anyone in 544.

3. I am not really sure how to respond to this one. Early on I definitely gave some reads, and made posts which would lead people to infer my reads on others. If somebody doesn't want to assume, they can ask me what my read is on somebody. This i think is kind of my playstyle. Ideally i'd love to sit back and do my own thing and look for people who are being genuinely curious and who are just faking it. When lefty asked me who my town reads were, that I felt was faking it. If he read my iso he knows for sure byron and bbt are town reads so why ask that? Why is he interested in who I am town reading vs who I am scum reading? I also disagree with you that I am not looking outside of my little sphere, you are making an assumption based on what you see. I am also the kind of person who sees bad posts, I am going to speak up. I will definitely do that when they are about me but I also do them when they are about others (hence my posts questioning byron earlier, me doing it again with invisibility and with lefty)


Let's make one thing clear. I am not voting a VI. I am voting scum. Performer is 199% without a doubt scum in my mind and I already said I am not voting anyone else. I specifically said earlier i was death tunneling him. I guess you missed that in my iso?

My actions are helping town because I am voting to lynched confirmed scum. In the process of my death tunneling, I am still reading and responding to posts, I am still developing reads. Just because I don't want to vote invisibility doesn't mean I am not helping town. I don't even know if I scum read invisibility. There are 2/3 people i'd rather lynch over invisibility.

If performer didn't say what he said, this would probably be a completely different game. When I get angry the wheels fall off and Performer's posts definitely made me angry. Lefty's inconsistencies and calling me scum for going after "low hanging fruit" yet town reading everyone else going after the same people makes me angry.

1.It's bad logic I will admit but it's not that bad it has to come from scum. I think reasoning is up to the individual and some individuals will vote people for the stupidest reasons. One game I was death tunneled as town by another townie because "I said to be honest" a lot and that was apparently scummy. Look performer has a history of shitty reasons to vote. Look at his vote on me for apparently lurking when the game started 2 hours earlier. I did vote him for other reasons but looking back they were a bit of a stretch. That's normally what happens when trying to break out of rvs through. My views on him now are null but I would still argue against your reasoning even if I was scum reading him since tainted logic can ruin a wagon.

2.sorry wrong post 534

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

and why doesn't performer get accused of going after "low hanging fruit" also?

where is the consistency in your accusations?

Invisibility (4): Garmr, Performer, ByronVilla, BlueBloodedToffee

Why haven't you accused these 4 people of going after low hanging fruit? I never voted invisibility and you accuse me of it, but these 4 are actually trying to lynch him

Garmr - You say he hasn't done anything AI but he is voting low hanging fruit...
Performer - I'd say he is your top town read considering you defense of him yet he is voting low hanging fruit...
Byron - You also have a town read
BBT - you have also said is a town read.

how do you justify this blatant contradiction on such a massive level?

Pointing out other people rubs me the wrong way. It's double edge, one edge is "these people aren't considered scummy why am" I and the other is "you should scum read these people" Both messages are extremely bad and when you scratch the surface a little you can find plenty of reasons to treat why people would be different.

3.Yeah you have some superficial reads outside your circle but most of the interactions you put effort into are the ones that poke you. A reason I don't automatically jump on to scumread you for it is I have been like this in the past as town and it took me someone else to point it out to me.

So you keep calling invisibility a low hanging fruit and seem to be persistently pushing against a invisibility lynch (I noticed you said it looked bad that bbt voted invisibility.) But you can't really town read him and said some of his actions seem scummy in the past.



I'm going to be honest it seems like you don't care at all if invisibility gets lynched or not, but you will willingly push against his wagon not because you think his town. But you do it to prove a point so you can improve your own self image. That's how it comes across to me.

[Garmr]

you can find plenty of reasons why some people would treat others different.

fixed

[Garmr]

of frustrating you’re the only one to react to it and somehow your interpretation is that I’m scummy, not him.

I’ve lost all hope in this game. Town would have been better off speeding through day 1 like I

Have to be honest despite my brain telling me that your actions are scummy my gut feeling is unsure. But I'm going to say drop the victim complex seriously.

Also your logic is terrible and something I would see in a newbie game.

If someone is scum reading you for a action pointing out others doing the same action doesn't excuse your action. Also the same action can be done for different reasons by different people.

Reading through your iso is fraustrating.

[Garmr]

So you keep calling invisibility a low hanging fruit

I don’t think I ever called invisibility low hanging fruit. Lefty said I was scum because of my attacks on low hanging fruit. One of the low hanging fruit was invisibility. I never even voted him, I merely pointed out that he was guilty of the same thing he was accusing Byron of doing. That was me attacking low hanging fruit apparently

But he’s town reading (or was) everyone who was voting invisibility.

You tell me how that makes sense. If lhf is low hanging fruit and going after him is suspicious, why haven’t we heard lefty attack the other poeple voting him?

It was immediately after me pointing that out that lefty dropped his push on me and resorted to adhom attacks.

Who gets backed into a corner and starts making it personal? Town or scum?

Oh I see where your coming from now. After going back and looking back lefty was the first to call a Invisibility vote easy. He didn't use the words lynchbait so it didn't pop up.


Sorry......

[Garmr]

I think invisibility should be lynched. Ascetic should claim at start as to not waste towns power roles. It makes me think it's a fake claim.
His early game was incredibly scummy; His votes were jumpy and he picked every big wagon. He jumped on byronvilla because of he misunderstood the reaction from the masses and thought he could push that lynch.

He then votes geo when asked by BBT what his thoughts are. I would think he would of gone back to voting him earlier as town since he was a earlier scum read.

His latter plays seem null but they don't really match a natural progression of scum hunting. They seem to be adapting to what he think towns wants.



Also just throwing this out I think Tommy Egan is town

[Garmr]

Benefits/negatives for lynching town invisibility for scum.

+Mislynch
- You lose a wifom machine that should be sorted
-Town might hit you the wifom machince with a power role to sort him.
-Will eventually have to be lynched anyway becuase he needs sorting.

Benefits/negatives for lynching town invisibility for town.

-mislynch and all that entails a shorter day less town presence.
+Less wifom
+Won't screw town over latter on if he continues to divide the player base.
+Confirms his slot
-lose chance at lynching scum day one

Benefits/negatives for lynching scum invisibility for scum.

-lose a scum team member
-Less control over the town because you have one less vote.
-Extra day you have to play to win
-information on scum team leaked
-possible loss of power role for scum deepening on what invisibility landed on.
+maybe some town town cred

Benefits/negatives for lynching scum invisibility for town

+get rid of scum
+get potential information scum team set up
+extra day to work with
+Scum are pressured

Benefits/negatives for keeping town invisibility for scum.

+Create wifom
+possibly get another lynch on town
+causes divide amongst players arguing over lynching him or not.
-keeps a town player alive
- may have a scum lynch instead

Benefits/negatives for keeping town invisibility for town.

+stop a mislynch
-cause wifom
-may lynch another townie or a power role which would help out.
-May screw over town on a latter date.

Benefits/negatives for keeping scum invisibility for scum.

+Save a scum team member
+can let him do all the kills so you don't risk your other team mates
+keep wifom going
+More days his alive the more days you have a extra vote against town.

Benefits/negatives for keeping scum invisibility for town.

-No benefits only negatives



So while town has a lot to think about. Scum are more likely to jump off the lynch as the benefits out weigh the negatives.

[Garmr]

Benefits/negatives for lynching town invisibility for scum.
+Mislynch
- You lose a wifom machine that should be sorted

-Town might hit you with a power role instead of the wifom machine because they want to see if his lying.

Fixed

[Garmr]

tchill, are you townreading garmr because he's scumreading me?

Are you scumreading Garmr? He's been the tiniest player all game.

Tiniest player??? What do you mean by that?

[Garmr]

tchill, are you townreading garmr because he's scumreading me?

Are you scumreading Garmr? He's been the tiniest player all game.

Alt not so hidden anymore

Towniest not tiniest

lol I was wracking my brain trying figure out what you meant lol.

[Garmr]

tchill, are you townreading garmr because he's scumreading me?

Are you scumreading Garmr? He's been the tiniest player all game.

Alt not so hidden anymore

Towniest not tiniest

lol I was wracking my brain trying figure out what you meant lol.

You still here?

If so can you talk to me about teacher and performer? What's your read on both of those players and Why?

I'd also like to talk about Gustavo why did you ask my read on him? I know I said he was town earlier for meta reasons but after a reread I'm feeling there's maybe something a little different here from what i seen of town Gus but I can't quite pick out what it is yet.

@Gus Can you link me to a scum game of yours?

Was just seeing if you were being consitant with what you were implying this is what I had in my notes. Going to be honest I only did a couple of players in my notes then was to lazy to add the rest.

Tommy Egan generic points of interest

Post 144-His reasoning for voting tchill is ok, takes gustav 104 to seriously. Accuse BBT as buddying gus weird. Calls gosmeir post good.

Implied scum reads bbt,tchill
Implied town reads gus and gosmeir.

Thought it could of been a potential scum slip but changed my mind on it after thinking it through. I think gus attitude is pretty shit. He should stop being a Debbie downer. I'm juggling ideas of him being anti town or scum. So could care less if he was lynched.

Tbh I haven't got much of a opinion on Teacher Actions. His actions haven't really been that bad going through iso. I can say he uses a lot of words to say the simplest things. It makes him look fluffy but it could be a playstyle thing. What I do think is interesting through is how players are treating him like the scum of the earth. I think looking into peoples reactions to him would provide more information than his actual posts themselves. So if he gets lynched I don't mind.


With Performer his post 39 was shit. Me apparently lurking despite the game only being open for hours pff. Performers 211 was average. Rest is null but doesn't really seem fake. His another player that gets scum read way out of proportion for his actions.

It seems this game one person says "I don't like one person" then a whole bunch of people parroting them.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Aristo

Going to be honest I think aristo is town I don't think gus would of rage quit if he was scum.

[Garmr]

gus replacing out is NAI, he also /outed of the queue to deal with family issues

oh didn't notice the family issue bit only read into the

I’m probably going through replace out. The fact every player ignored an awesome post by me showing just how scummy lefty has been acting shows nobody really cares about finding scum. Only one person referenced it and tried to use that against me.

That shows players just not caring and I care too much.

[Garmr]

Was 90% sure Invisibility was going to flip scum oh well not really a major loss due circumstances. How many scum do you guys think were on the wagon?

[Garmr]

I honestly wouldn't mind a Nos lynch tbh. He feels like a scum slot that's coasting by. He hasn't made any real hard pushes.
His scum reads

{invis, GEO, performer}

are pretty much regurgitated from general Concensus which he added nothing new.

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Also chuck a few towns reads like byron and gus

So his previous scumreads are in the middle of the list So i'm just going to assume that means wave,tommy and I are null judging from his wording. So nothing really changed. Everything else feels fake a bland here. Nothing in his previous post indicate a thought process that leads up to this. Also would like to mention he positioned himself where he could vote Invis yesterday if needed but didn't touch it. He also barely interacted with the invis wagon and put himself in a position to lynch it if need be.

VOTE: nos

P:edit
damn that's a lot of post in the time I took to write this.

[Garmr]

Nos be the scum that flys under the radar.

[Garmr]

Oh god the stuff byron and gustavo post gives me a headache. The most you get out shit like that is other peoples reactions, but to actually try and get a read out it is torture.

[Garmr]

Nos why did you sr garmr? Garm , I think nos is town - my read on him hasn't changed since I last posted about him.

The posts on pg 38 are alarming. Hmm.

Everything in my post and a couple more things might as well dot point them


1.scum reads seem to follow general consensus.

2.Spent most of day 1 costing

3.A lot of his posts are just filler, Look at post 222 it adds nothing to the game and makes him look like his doing something.

4.Post like 484 seem to lack drive he doesn't captalise on it. In fact if you read through his iso. He doesn't really push anything to get information out of it.

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Question to you name a time when he actually furthered the game state or got information out of a push we otherwise wouldn't of got.

[Garmr]

ALSO.... Garmr tried to push nos and that was largely ignored. Thats very interesting.

Thank you for pointing that out, now we can get nos out into the spot light.

[Garmr]

So his previous scumreads are in the middle of the list So i'm just going to assume that means wave,tommy and I are null judging from his wording. So nothing really changed. Everything else feels fake a bland here. Nothing in his previous post indicate a thought process that leads up to this. Also would like to mention he positioned himself where he could vote Invis yesterday if needed but didn't touch it. He also barely interacted with the invis wagon and put himself in a position to lynch it if need be.

Are you saying I had invis in my scumreads? How did I position myself to vote invis?

You had Invis in your scumreads earlier on in the day then you gave no indication that you town read him or his position changed. You positioned yourself to vote invis because you could default back to your earlier reads if you needed to also in that position you could wait to see what happens. You would think a town nos would interact with the wagon of a scumread/former scum read, instead of watching to see what happens.

4.Post like 484 seem to lack drive he doesn't captalise on it.

idk what you mean by this.

You asked the question but didn't push it any further. You don't seem bothered if you get info out of them or not. You haven't done anything with the questions you asked to form any reads.


Didn't really address the rest of my post through.

[Garmr]

In my opinion the push was too slow for it to be a push by scum. Like, the wagon was consistently on like 4 people for super long before everyone just kinda went 'Let's just lynch Invis'. It didn't feel like a lynch on scum, but a lynch for the sake of a lynch. I don't think there were many people who really were convinced Invis were scum, and that felt like a problem to me. It meant scum could lynch town with the excuse of 'it gives us info so let's do it'.

Invisibility

(4): Garmr, Performer, ByronVilla, BlueBloodedToffee

Also I think one of these are scum. Ironically I'm on there, but I feel like one of these just parked their vote and rode the wagon out to an easy D1 town lynch. Now I TR Garmr and I'm gonna take myself out, so my lynchpool coming into today is between Performer & BBT. That's obviously subject to change as the day plays out, but I'm gonna have my eyes on those two.

this list in that order is most likely scum to least likely scum lol.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

I think invisibility should be lynched. Ascetic should claim at start as to not waste towns power roles. It makes me think it's a fake claim.
His early game was incredibly scummy; His votes were jumpy and he picked every big wagon. He jumped on byronvilla because of he misunderstood the reaction from the masses and thought he could push that lynch.

He then votes geo when asked by BBT what his thoughts are. I would think he would of gone back to voting him earlier as town since he was a earlier scum read.

His latter plays seem null but they don't really match a natural progression of scum hunting. They seem to be adapting to what he think towns wants.



Also just throwing this out I think Tommy Egan is town

tchill, are you townreading garmr because he's scumreading me?

nothing in garmr's post is wrong which is why im TRing him.

So nothing was wrong with my invisibility vote in your own words. So what are the scum tingles from??? Is it because I pushed nos just now.Sounds kinda like a chainsaw.


@BBT are you 100% sure tchill is town.

[Garmr]

Nothing was wrong with your invisibility vote because I was trying to get invisibility lynched. If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm.

It has nothing to do with your nos push.

I'm wondering why your pushing Nas as much as I'm wondering why your push got ignred .

This is the progression k.

nothing in garmr's post is wrong which is why im TRing him.

l
l
v

this list in that order is most likely scum to least likely scum lol.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

So you go from a town read to a scum read. Saying I gave you tingles despite you having no problem with giving me a town read yesterday. Also you don't elaborate as to why you get a scum read. Then when I call you out on it, I left my post in such a way it would provoke a reasoning. But instead of pushing me and getting a response you go

If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm

This is a de-escalating statement. You didn't push a reasoning to try and sort me and it doubles back on your earlier statement. It's like oh if there was scum in that block of 4 people it would be Garmr. The implications are a bit different than Garmr gives me scum tingles. It gives you a bit of wiggle room. Also it doesn't further a attempt to sort me at all.

What I think is you are afraid of confrontation with me; yet you still want to able to vote me latter on if town decides to change the way they read me, while avoiding being locked in a debate.

[Garmr]

I'm not scared of anything. I have no real solid absolute reason to push you yet. I'm very wary of you. You've been very low key, then pushed nos when other names would have been easier to push. Bbt, Byron and teacher has been spoken about and you randomly jumped in with nos.

THEN IT WAS IGNORED COMPLETELY THAT NOS WAS A POSSIBILITY.

Which actually gives me more reason to TR you atm if I look at that information objectively without gut feeling.

So I'm kinda stuck. I feel that you flew the most under the radar d1 but I do like that you pushed nos.

Didn't mean to be low key just not feeling 100% this game I have a lot more doubts than I normally do.

Tbh there's 2.5/3 scenarios where you are town and scum that keep going through. But starting to talk about possible roles,night kill speculation etc. When I was new I'd get in trouble for accidentally/ outing town roles so I don't really want to elaborate to much on it.

[Garmr]

1.scum reads seem to follow general consensus.

2.Spent most of day 1 costing

3.A lot of his posts are just filler, Look at post 222 it adds nothing to the game and makes him look like his doing something.

4.Post like 484 seem to lack drive he doesn't captalise on it. In fact if you read through his iso. He doesn't really push anything to get information out of it.

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Question to you name a time when he actually furthered the game state or got information out of a push we otherwise wouldn't of got.

This is a good post. A couple of questions;

I'm not sure if 1 is true - do you have examples of this? 2 is good (though there are other people coasting as well), 3 is also true but I'm not sure filler = scum.

4 and your final point I really like - there doesn't seem to be any drive from Nos to do anything. No pushes on scum reads, no collaboration with town reads, doesn't bring new information to the game. This is the main reason I like this post - could easily see scum playing in this way.

Can you elaborate on 5? I need to go back and see what Nos' reactions were around the Invis wagon (phone posting atm) but again, as your point states, I don't remember Nos having much involvement with it. He kind of just let it happen.

VOTE: wavemode

Why?

I am starting to feel like I'm on an island in how I see the byron v bbt case.

Elaborate?

VOTE: Nos

My points from d1 still stand.

This could be sticky scum.

0 reevaluating and if Nos is town I think it's an easy push for scum to make.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

Why? I'm not getting that at all.

1. Well his initial vote on performer was a Rvs and Tchill was the one pushing it at the start. Other than that I remember his read list coming out latter than i guess that's wrong for early reads. But the reads list still feels kinda safe. I hate to say it but this points kinda weaker than I originally thought.

5. Well he was saying how willing he was to lynch invis before the wagon picked up full pace. He didn't push on it,jump on it,Disagree with it or offer his opinions on it. He just watched. With invis being in the centre of the list (725) yet still being a because of a possible lynch(223). He had the freedom to form any statement he wanted to and seemed to just wait for invis to get lynched on his own or how town would react. Because the way 725 is structured it gives a lot of freedom for a scum player. Because as scum you don't want to yourself lock in to much.

Also can cross this off as not possible

Tchill BBT masons

Didn't think it was likely but the fact you town read each other for similar thoughts and tchill was asking why he wasn't the same place on a reads list made the thought cross my mind. While you appeared as townie to me tchill just rings my scumdar. Also made me a little hesitant to push to hard incase I outed another mason team by accident.

[Garmr]

This weekends been busy a little busy I had a wine tour/went out to town for a friends birthday yesterday and today going to a family bbq and woke up a bit late I only have 45 minutes to get ready. Might be able to post tonight.

[Garmr]

can someone explain to me how nos is a better lynch than teacher or tommy at present

even if we lynch on wagon, in what universe is nos scummier than tommy egan this game

This one.

[Garmr]

Find it kinda off when the nos wagon dies and tchill jumps off onto teacher then says how weird it the situation with nos and I is.

Lets all be honest here

The nos wagon lost steam with out the main points being shut down for a mediocre at best wagon.

Teacher post have been kinda bland null. Because lets be honest the people that are scum reading him are going his to null. Literally search teacher and see how many times the word null pops up. I honestly don't mind lynching null reads but when a null wagon shuts down one with actual legitimate reasoning behind it that's suss.

Also no one who town reads nosf can actually put any real town motivation behind his actions. I'm going to start calling out people who give worthless town nos reads with no reasoning.

[Garmr]

i agree with that post. kinda weird that you're gonna call out ppl for TR'ing him after you just said his wagon had no weight to it lol. like i agree with that part but why call out ppl TRing him?

Never said nos's wagon didn't have no weight I said 1 point wasn't that strong as I thought, I had like 4 other points. I'm talking about people town reading nos btw not teacher

I hate to say it but this points kinda weaker than I originally thought.

So to make it clear
Teacher=mediocre at best wagon
Nos=Actual decent points made against him.

[Garmr]

i agree with that post. kinda weird that you're gonna call out ppl for TR'ing him after you just said his wagon had no weight to it lol. like i agree with that part but why call out ppl TRing him?

Oh and why call out people townreading nos? Because I don't think anyway one has actually given a legit reason to town read him and I don't want scum to slip away with this seagull mentality everyone seems to have.

[Garmr]

Garmr, what is your read on Tommy?

I like tommy and town read him. I been town reading him for a while. I liked his nos push day 1 also i'm not 100% sure but I think can see some suspicion of tchill in his post 1040, but he looks like gathering information instead of making accusations straight away.

[Garmr]

Find it kinda off when the nos wagon dies and tchill jumps off onto teacher then says how weird it the situation with nos and I is.

Lets all be honest here

The nos wagon lost steam with out the main points being shut down for a mediocre at best wagon.

Teacher post have been kinda bland null. Because lets be honest the people that are scum reading him are going his to null. Literally search teacher and see how many times the word null pops up. I honestly don't mind lynching null reads but when a null wagon shuts down one with actual legitimate reasoning behind it that's suss.

Also no one who town reads nosf can actually put any real town motivation behind his actions. I'm going to start calling out people who give worthless town nos reads with no reasoning.

this is the case.

Lots of wagons go nowhere. They get stale and people move on. Unless there was a huge push from someone else to make it move there is no reason to assume it was a wagon on scum.

Town dont always need "town motivation" to post, it's scum that need a motivation. So this makes no sense.

And is teacher being null really that worrisome?

I'm not sure but i think he is saying tchill and nos may be partners here and the jump seems forced (unless I missed context)

That's not my case on nos you silly sausage .

Nos why did you sr garmr? Garm , I think nos is town - my read on him hasn't changed since I last posted about him.

The posts on pg 38 are alarming. Hmm.

Everything in my post and a couple more things might as well dot point them


1.scum reads seem to follow general consensus.

2.Spent most of day 1 costing

3.A lot of his posts are just filler, Look at post 222 it adds nothing to the game and makes him look like his doing something.

4.Post like 484 seem to lack drive he doesn't captalise on it. In fact if you read through his iso. He doesn't really push anything to get information out of it.

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Question to you name a time when he actually furthered the game state or got information out of a push we otherwise wouldn't of got.

[Garmr]

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@BBT look at Tchill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

[Garmr]

Would like to point out how much of a struggle it was get a nos wagon going with legit points. But when it comes to my wagon I get a lot of blank votes with no reasoning, kinda funny how the wagon came after I said I'm start going to apply some pressure for actual reasoning on a read. Isn't the point of mafia to get information?

[Garmr]

Lets all be honest here

The nos wagon lost steam with out the main points being shut down for a mediocre at best wagon.

Teacher post have been kinda bland null. Because lets be honest the people that are scum reading him are going his to null. Literally search teacher and see how many times the word null pops up. I honestly don't mind lynching null reads but when a null wagon shuts down one with actual legitimate reasoning behind it that's suss

your reasons suck bro0oo

Is that even worth responding to?

[Garmr]

You had Invis in your scumreads earlier on in the day then you gave no indication that you town read him or his position changed. You positioned yourself to vote invis because you could default back to your earlier reads if you needed to also in that position you could wait to see what happens. You would think a town nos would interact with the wagon of a scumread/former scum read, instead of watching to see what happens.

you don't remember what town nos is like then lol

I would never position myself to vote someone as scum, especially given the playstyle I've decided to go with this game. I'm townhunting, so I'll vote legit anyone as long as they're not in my stronger townreads. Positioning myself to vote invis is unnecessary because I put myself in a position to vote literally anyone pretty early on in this game. In fact, I was actually planning on voting invis, but he got hammered when I was afk.

I also did give an indication that his position changed.

You asked the question but didn't push it any further. You don't seem bothered if you get info out of them or not. You haven't done anything with the questions you asked to form any reads.

I don't really ask questions for the purpose of forming reads. Pretty rarely at least.

the post in question isn't even really directed at anyone in particular, and I continued the line of thought (pushing it further), so I'm not sure why you chose it to go with this point. I'm sure there are other posts I've made that would go along with this better.

Didn't really address the rest of my post through.

Well, I kinda did coast d1, I don't really have scumreads so arguing against the consensus thing is just ??? and a good measure of my posts are filler.

So there were no questions I could ask you about the other points.

1.Meta saying you would never postion yourself that way as scum is pretty much useless as it doesn't make everything null. Saying if you were ready to hammer invis or not also enforces my point about you waiting to see the out come; I would suspect in your town games you would of put some input about how you saw his claim or not, even a willingness to hammer to show the wagon would go through. Also it shows you can say anything day 2 to adjust to town. Nothing in your answer accounts for those.

2.484 does nothing to push the game forward and you didn't even use any information to push out any more information.

3.This reassures me how?

[Garmr]

Just going to rehash on my Chill and expand a little on it

if the team was gosrir, byron and teacher that'd be pretty funny... oh well. just so you know i think guessing teams is stupid day 1 but ppl do it allll the time.

im not lynching bbt today though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until day 2 possibly 3. Yes it's solely because i understand his style early which is a very easy style to manipulate as scum early. I'm giving him a chance above everything else i've seen though.

Tr-BBT

Scum-Teacher

no reads in between.

BBT seems to have the same mindset I do early. Pretty much any and every townie is expendable days 1 and 2. Wagon reasoning doesnt matter until theres an actual reason to wagon (a reason that can be validated).

These two clash against each other. Didn't you say "It doesn't matter if a townie gets lynched day 1 according to you as they are expendable?" Your words imply that BBT isn't expendable till a certain day or so. Why is BBT different from others.

Also why are you town reading BBT. Nothing in your speech implies you think BBT is town at most it should be a null read. What town actions taken by BBT justify a BBT town read in your eyes, especially if you are giving him the benefit of a doubt (which implies you think his actions are scummy but giving him a pass)?

Being a easy mislynch isn't a legit reason to town read someone.

I have a couple of reasons why I think there's a discrepancy between your mentality as described by you and your actual actions but I would rather hear it untainted from your mouth.

every townie is expendable until from my own perspective have a reason to not vote them. BBT's style of play and reads are similar to mine. I understand the motivation he has for playing the way he does i do the same all the time. That is a reason for me to TR him (I do not build "reads" the same as others d1) I hand out hard TR's day 1 to ppl ik and/or ppl im comfortable to be able to read by day 3. If BBT is town then great, if he's not im confident enough in myself to figure that out later. Clearing the game of townies that will always be in my lynch pool d1 is almost as useful as lynching actual scum seeing how scum will not be able to take advantage of certain town players anymore.

Yeah town is expendable I get it. But saying I won't lynch BBT day 1 so early on in the game then say maybe day 2 or 3 Just doesn't sit right. For example, he could do something extremely scummy and you could change your mind.

If his a hard town read like you say then phrases like "benefit of the doubt" are out of place. It's like you want wriggle room to lynch him on a further date; Town wouldn't need to announce that.

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

this is interesting. Why am i so close to teacher and so far from BBT?

I also don't like the mentality of you sewing yourself to BBT. Like "if you town read BBT you have to town read me." I honestly don't think you are coming from a town place.

1.These points still stand despite how early I made them. The most hard hitting point in my opinion is how he tries to tether himself to BBT. In fact early game he is kissing up BBT's ass It comes across buddying. "I understand BBT style comes across as scummy so I won't vote him." Is basically what he said.



2.post 155 comes across as coaching/buddying (depending on BVs alignment) when taken in conjunction with 166. In 155 he acts all friendly trying to get better and in post 166 he smears mud all over Bv saying Bv gives him scum tingles. Will he actually vote byron villa through?

3.Also Find it funny how performer votes me for being a lurker early on then Tchill vote performer for lurking despite no actual lurking occurring at that point. I think Tchill trying to push performer as a lurker is pretty scummy for that stage at the game. Also using a vote to allegedly get information out of someone is bollocks and tchill isn't that trash of a player. 1.one blank vote creates no pressure with out a question 2.performer is not going to care anyway. 3. He never does anything to push performer in the future while having him in the lynch pile, This shows he wasn't worried about getting a read out of performer.


4.Notice how his mentality is people pushing for a lynch on invis are most likely town and how my reasoning are logically sound and correct. His attitude takes a 180 day 2. He gives BV a free pass because he jumped off inis lynch despite the day before saying scum agreeing that it would be beneficial for scum to jump off.

Scum tingles are just gut feeling due to coasting d1.

Just saw this now But I wasn't coasting at all I think even through i had like 34 post (not counting spelling corrections) I would most were hard hitting. The fact I couldn't post heaps more was I was having trouble getting reads out the game with certain players. If you call that coasting you should go back to newbie games. Also now I think about I can't help looking low key because I actually put effort in despite having trouble day 1.


5.Don't want to repeat to much but 977 is him throwing shade. Also noticing his town reading players he thinks he can handle better and does the 180 on me the town read who scum reads him with rushed a pathetic reason.

Nothing was wrong with your invisibility vote because I was trying to get invisibility lynched. If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm.

It has nothing to do with your nos push.

I'm wondering why your pushing Nas as much as I'm wondering why your push got ignred .

This is the progression k.

nothing in garmr's post is wrong which is why im TRing him.

l
l
v

this list in that order is most likely scum to least likely scum lol.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

So you go from a town read to a scum read. Saying I gave you tingles despite you having no problem with giving me a town read yesterday. Also you don't elaborate as to why you get a scum read. Then when I call you out on it, I left my post in such a way it would provoke a reasoning. But instead of pushing me and getting a response you go

If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm

This is a de-escalating statement. You didn't push a reasoning to try and sort me and it doubles back on your earlier statement. It's like oh if there was scum in that block of 4 people it would be Garmr. The implications are a bit different than Garmr gives me scum tingles. It gives you a bit of wiggle room. Also it doesn't further a attempt to sort me at all.

What I think is you are afraid of confrontation with me; yet you still want to able to vote me latter on if town decides to change the way they read me, while avoiding being locked in a debate.

This still hold strong.

6.With that said, look how quickly he votes nosf when a wagon forms on nosf, just after performer votes. why wouldn't he vote before if he agreed with my vote? Kinda suss timing if you ask me. He also jumps off nosf wagon when the wagon lost steam.

7.

first of all you ppl sound like you have cool lives, second of all. i've got large town, scum and null groups. when i go about sorting one something happens that changes that. such as my garmr gut scum feel. that came and went. Nos was the same. Teacher i've been eyeing as scum for a bit.

There's something fishy about nos and garmr i can't quite put my finger on.

I still feel that BBT, Lefty and Byron are town. strongly.

what has gosrir done exactly? Also thoughts on performer as mislynch bait opposed to being scum.

Oh look at that

VOTE: garmr

stop with the walls please.

Votes me after that post with no explanation. Also again straight after a performer vote.

So anyone notice the pattern for day 2. He only jumps on wagons that are gathering steam or he thinks will If someone tries to push him on a so called scum read with out traction he won't jump on. Also after he established some town reads day 1 he voted performer and did nothing for the rest of the day until he jumped on invisibles mislynch

[Garmr]

Btw i'm fine voting for either tchill or nos at this point.

[Garmr]

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@BBT look at Tchill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

Quite the overreaction if you're town.

How is this a overreaction I been scum reading you since day 1 and pushing nosf since before this happened. You are painting me pointing out my two top scum reads and enforcing them as a over reaction. Here's some news for yah I forced this spotlight focus to be on me to draw light to my scum reads since people this game

Garmr is looking scummier the more pressure is put on him.

If garmr is scum Bbt has defended him hard.

You know I'm town so this comment about BBT is pretty much throw away. Also what pressure? as BV said I was almost being universally town read before. I called out not giving unsubstantiated town read on one of my top scum reads and I got kneejerk reactions from people who don't want the game state to progress in a positive way.

You think so?

I'll go either way honestly because I highly doubt garmr and nos are the same alignment.

If I am wrong about nos this quote here is you lining up mislynchs. Also the fact townies wouldn't be so certain that people are opposing alignments. This is the proper town mentality when it comes to dealing with things like this.

In my experience it's rarer for scum to protect a team mate than a townie. If one were to flip scum I would be more inclined to feel the other is town. On the other hand a town flip says nothing about the others alignment.

Scum will use your way as a excuse to line up a lynch.

All you done is throw shade at me after my case on you and haven't tried to defend yourself in anyway, hell you haven't made a actual case as to why you think I'm scum. Seems like you're the one flailing here.

[Garmr]

Post more after I get a haircut.

[Garmr]

Why are you the leading wagon if you're universally town read?

I said almost meaning a majority of people are town reading me or had me at null. But this is weak posting as you aren't avoiding making a real case and trying to push through a lynch with shade alone. Also you avoid my major points in 1122.

[Garmr]

1.Meta saying you would never postion yourself that way as scum is pretty much useless as it doesn't make everything null. Saying if you were ready to hammer invis or not also enforces my point about you waiting to see the out come; I would suspect in your town games you would of put some input about how you saw his claim or not, even a willingness to hammer to show the wagon would go through. Also it shows you can say anything day 2 to adjust to town. Nothing in your answer accounts for those.

2.484 does nothing to push the game forward and you didn't even use any information to push out any more information.

3.This reassures me how?

1. thats not meta. its a direct consequences of things ive said this game
2. you picked a stupid post to have this argument with. it was a rhetorical question to the whole that only one person responded to. i dont have to force people to engage with me.
3. coasting is whatever. its practically nai.

1.Why did you even bring up meta then? I said using meta as a defence is useless, my case isn't built on meta. But here's a question for you. If your actions direct consequences benefit a scum nos. Then why wouldn't I get the idea that you are scum? Shouldn't you be giving your town motivation to your actions or why it doesn't benefit scum nos, not arguing semantics of my point?

2.Was just one example. Find me a post where you actually did something with a line of questioning where it got results and I'll drop this point.

3. I think coasting can be alignment indicative when taken as a whole with someones play. Also If costing is nai then what do you think of tchill trying to say I was coasting (which I wasn't) as his only scum point?

[Garmr]

@Nos: The burden of proof is on your shoulders: Where do you have a townread that was presented in a persuasive way? You might be townhunting, but if so, then not in a way in which town could actually benefit from it.

@Garmr: Could you tell me about your read on Tommy? Why are you townreading him?

Should I address Perf? He seems to have thought Aristo was laughing at the idea that Gus was trying to make his replace out look town (as opposed to the typo I made.) He also seems to think that Gus replaced out b/c of being a toddler allegedly (alleged by Perf), not b/c he had RL issues, even though it's been pretty well established. (The first point is interesting, I guess. I'll ISO him during the weekend b/c I don't have time to do that earlier.)

Garmr, what is your read on Tommy?

I like tommy and town read him. I been town reading him for a while. I liked his nos push day 1 also i'm not 100% sure but I think can see some suspicion of tchill in his post 1040, but he looks like gathering information instead of making accusations straight away.

If you want me to expand on a little I can. I feel that he also has seems to drawn similar conclusions to me, I know I said same reads doesn't = same alignment earlier but it doesn't come across as if he wants to adjust his reads to me and I feel the situation is different.

[Garmr]

I said almost meaning a majority of people are town reading me or had me at null. But this is weak posting as you

are

avoiding making a real case and trying to push through a lynch with shade alone. Also you avoid my major points in 1122.

fixed

[Garmr]

1.Why did you even bring up meta then? I said using meta as a defence is useless, my case isn't built on meta. But here's a question for you. If your actions direct consequences benefit a scum nos. Then why wouldn't I get the idea that you are scum? Shouldn't you be giving your town motivation to your actions or why it doesn't benefit scum nos, not arguing semantics of my point?

2.Was just one example. Find me a post where you actually did something with a line of questioning where it got results and I'll drop this point.

3. I think coasting can be alignment indicative when taken as a whole with someones play. Also If costing is nai then what do you think of tchill trying to say I was coasting (which I wasn't) as his only scum point?

1. To answer this your question, the reasons you scumread me are because your definition of towny play doesn't fit my playstyle which is whatever, I don't really care. I'm not arguing the semantics of your point, you think that (and correct me if I'm wrong):

- I was vague on my invis read to position myself to vote him.
- town!me would interact with the wagon that was going down instead of just watching.

This is bullshit because
- I was not vague on my invis read, and saying that I was positioning myself to vote is fucking dumb when I didn't even vote.
- town!me would not interact with the wagon, because I don't do that as either alignment. I have to bring up meta because you're asking me what I would do and I'm telling you that in the past I've never done that and thus why would I here? If you don't want meta in this then don't literally force me to bring it up.

2. Since you insist on this:
viewtopic.php?t=66305&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
Here is a game where I was town. You were in this game.
Find a line of questioning.

Lines of questionings are not things I do. They're pointless bullshit to make yourself look towny, they don't actually make you change reads because people inherently ask pointed questions. If you think that you need a line of questioning to be town, then lynch me, cause I'm scum then.

3. If you have to look at the rest of their play to find out if it's alignment indicative, then it's not really alignment indicative. I think Tchill is making a shitty point if he's taking your coasting to be a scum move, especially since you didn't even coast D1, you just weren't there.

1. Your missing the point and just dragging this in circles.
-I explained why it could of been taken as vague as he was in the middle of the list and you didn't update the read and you didn't mention him when he was getting lynch or showed indication of voting him.
-Sure meta away. But I feel you haven't had the same situation as this.

2. I literally had to confirm you as town that game with my cop powers. Also you made me read beeboys posts again groans. Also you seem to be more proactive with your stances and even defended a scum read of mine (it flipped scum). There's slight differences with that game and this one as well.

[Garmr]

Lynch garmr

Maybe you could get a lynch if you provided a case?

[Garmr]

this is tiring.

1. Your missing the point and just dragging this in circles.
-I explained why it could of been taken as vague as he was in the middle of the list and you didn't update the read and you didn't mention him when he was getting lynch or showed indication of voting him.
-Sure meta away. But I feel you haven't had the same situation as this.

2. I literally had to confirm you as town that game with my cop powers. Also you made me read beeboys posts again groans. Also you seem to be more proactive with your stances and even defended a scum read of mine (it flipped scum). There's slight differences with that game and this one as well.

1. How am I missing the point? Your point is dumb. It's not vague if he's in the middle of the list, that's fucking stupid. Vague would be if he wasn't on the list. Vague would be if I didn't make a list. Putting how I felt about him in a graphical format for ease of interpretation is not fucking vague. Before I made that list, I made no mention of my read on invis. If I wanted to position to vote invis, I would have literally just left him where he was. Saying that I was somehow fucking ambiguous about how I felt about it is disgusting, not to mention when you're saying that I positioned myself to vote invis

and then didn't vote invis. Like what the fuck?

But I feel you haven't had the same situation as this.

You don't get to say that though. Either you accept meta as an excuse for my actions, or don't use a point that I have to use meta to respond to.

2. What stances I had and is beside the point. There were no lines of questioning in that game yes or no?

1.If you don't get my point you're dumb or playing dumb I think it's the latter. The way you wrote the list would could be the same or a read change to null unlike your two previous scum read who are clearly represented as scum. Also you keep cherry picking points to try and shake off my argument.

A.You keeped silent about your intent to vote him or not. Fact
B.You were in a position due to your actions to jump on his wagon or not. Fact
C. You can't deny the fact it doesn't benefit a scum or put a town intent and you haven't tried to argue these points. Fact
D1.Instead of focusing on the core argument you focus on the word choice saying I found your reads vague (which I found you were). Fact
D2.Even if you show you weren't vague Facts A and B are the stronger points and stand on there own don't try to present my argument as crumbling by cherry picking.

Actually now I think about it.

{invis, GEO, performer} can go.

You never actually said you scum read invis you just said he could go. That could of been for any amount of reasons Like you could of null read him and wanted him out to be sorted or a policy lynch ect. Also you said geo and performer weren't your top scum reads either. So that leaves us with two situations

-Invis was your so called top scum read and you didn't react to his wagon or his lynch and held back
-Invis wasn't your so called top scum read and you never mentioned your top scum read or voted for him/her. Showing you didn't care about lynching your top scum read at all. If you actually had one

Neither of these scream town to me.

2.So my original point is you

484 does nothing to push the game forward and you didn't even use any information to push out any more information.

You twisted and warped the response so you can bash a strawman argument I have never made. My argument wasn't that town you would have no lines of questioning. It's that your questioning this game leads no where and and hasn't influenced any of your reads which is scummy.

[Garmr]

I think teacher should be the lynch today.

You mean not mafia? I would perfer a nos lynch which is why I forced the spot light onto me and him. But I wouldn't oppose a a not mafia lynch either. As my wagon obviously has/had 1 or more scum on it.

Garmr, what is your read on Tommy?

I like tommy and town read him. I been town reading him for a while. I liked his nos push day 1 also i'm not 100% sure but I think can see some suspicion of tchill in his post 1040, but he looks like gathering information instead of making accusations straight away.

Just to make sure I understand does your town read on Tommy rely mainly on him scum reading Nos? Is there anything outside of that?

Other than that? Gut

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@bbt look at TChill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

I've already admitted to not liking TChill's play D2 and that's mainly due to how some of our main reads have clashed. However, I don't think a clash of reads makes someone scum and I still see town motivation in his posts. I have no intention of lynching TChill today but depending on certain flips this read is subject to change as I'm nowhere near as confident as I was on D1.

Well If I die I want my case on him to have some significance I want someone to follow it up.

Would like to point out how much of a struggle it was get a nos wagon going with legit points. But when it comes to my wagon I get a lot of blank votes with no reasoning, kinda funny how the wagon came after I said I'm start going to apply some pressure for actual reasoning on a read. Isn't the point of mafia to get information?

I don't think the Nos wagon was a struggle to get going, IIRC the wagon grew to around 4 (?) votes fairly quickly. I also agree that your wagon grew very quickly and there was 100% scum influence on that wagon (reminder that I need to look at it more closely.)

My beginning pushes were ignored but once it pushed off it spiked up. Looking back the spot light was on someone else when I made the initial comment, it would of probably been ignored if I didn't keep pushing and nos would still be in the shadows.

[Garmr]

I'll get to the rest but

You never actually said you scum read invis you just said he could go. That could of been for any amount of reasons Like you could of null read him and wanted him out to be sorted or a policy lynch ect. Also you said geo and performer weren't your top scum reads either.

don't be fucking stupid

why would i have wanted to policy lynch invis? If I clearly said I wanted him to die, it's cause I scumread him. You're just coming up with random shit now.

... I'm not saying that's what you were doing I'm saying with you being that silent those were possibilities.

[Garmr]

I'm am cherry picking

fixed

STOP SAYING THAT I WROTE THE LIST IN A VAGUE WAY OR TO CHANGE IT LATER. IF I WANTED TO POSITION MYSELF TO VOTE INVIS, I WOULD HAVE KEPT HIM IN MY SCUMREADS PLAIN AND FUCKING SIMPLE.

would never position myself to vote someone as scum, especially given the playstyle I've decided to go with this game. I'm townhunting, so I'll vote legit anyone as long as they're not in my stronger townreads. Positioning myself to vote invis is unnecessary because

I put myself in a position to vote literally anyone pretty early on in this game. In fact, I was actually planning on voting invis, but he got hammered when I was afk.

I also did give an indication that his position changed.

So lets start with the Bold first. You're saying you never needed to position yourself to vote invis but thje lower comment indicates you did and not just invis but everyone.

So my point still stands you were positioned to vote invis yet you gave absolutely no reaction to the wagon despite him being a earlier scum read. You gave no intent you were going to vote for latter for a hammer.

these are facts.

Doesn't matter what you actually said your read of him


Now for the italics
You didn't give a fucking clear one.

I'm not trying to approach this game from a readlist perspective like I usually do, but I'll do it once to give perspective

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Normally I start from the middle and branch out but I wanted to start from the bottom and grow up instead, so the bottom rung isn't necessarily just the scummiest of the earth to me, but instead they're people that haven't shown themselves as town, since the number of things I'm juggling at once right now sorta necessitates townhunting in most of my games.

pedit: see i knew you would ask that so ^^^

Your middle one invis is that null or null scum since your two scum reads geo and teacher aren't on the bottom. Your bottom reads could be null the way your formatted it. It no way is a indicater.

A. you keep fucking framing it as i should have given a definite for sure "i will/won't support this" lynch. the sheer fact that i didnt oppose the wagon and that i previously vote should be clear enough fucking evidence to show that i either dont fucking care or want the lynch. now including the fact that i DIDNT EVEN VOTE THE WAGON THAT YOURE ACCUSING ME OF POSITIONING MYSELF TO VOTE, there should be OVERWHELMING evidence as to how much i cared about the invis lynch dude

You admitted it yourself earlier you were in the position to vote him. The rest of this post is pretty much Appeal to emotion. Caps locks galore.

B. I wasn't positioned to do shit. I could have voted everyone in {Invis, GEO, teacher, wave, garmr, tommy}. You act like I was in some scheme to vote invis specifically, when it literally could have been all of these people, and that's how I know you're talking fucking bullshit. Any reasonable person would say that I put myself in a position to vote any of these people, but you're specifically pushing invis, which is because he specifically flipped town and it's thus seemingly an easier argument to convince everyone else of. But it's fucking dumb to say I positioned myself to vote invis when I could have voted LITERALLY HALF THE FUCKING PLAYERLIST WITH EASE. AND ON TOP OF IT I DIDN'T VOTE HIM. If I were scum I would have just fucking voted before I went afk. What you're saying is anti-scum in that I'm literally just not voting a town mislynch.

It's not a scheme, It was result of your hesitance as scum to place a vote because you knew he was going to flip town also the wagon may of dropped before leaving so you questioned about your vote him. So you as scum would have to juggle between getting a easy mislynch and people looking back at the wagon to hunt for scum on it. Never in your wildest did you think I Garmr would catch you and call you out for it.

C.

My actual actions may benefit scum

but what you're arguing is not that. You're arguing something fucking stupid, that I positioned myself to vote someone specific when in reality my playstyle (and this isn't meta right here) this game pretty transparently allows me to put my vote in a lot of places. The intentions you're accusing me of taking just didn't happen and aren't able to be inferred from my actions.

You can stop right there at the bolded because that's exactly what my main argument is. What you are focusing on is a lesser point which was only mean to enchant the main argument. You are the one who tried to frame you being vague it as my main argument to shake off the heat.

Which makes you scum.

D1. BEING VAGUE IS YOUR CORE ARGUMENT

you're telling me that I made my stance on invis VAGUE so I could VOTE HIM

AND NOW I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT I WASN'T BEING VAGUE?

what the actual fuck?

D2. I legitimately cannot fucking believe this. How the fuck am I cherry picking or misrepresenting your headass argument?

straw man
noun
noun: strawman
1.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

Being vague isn't the core argument it's your actions benefited a scum nos. Vague on it's own isn't scum anyway. But lets see what the line your arguing against is

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Doesn't seem to me you being vague is a core part of it. Because in your words you would still vote him. So who cares if it was a scum read or a null read. You didn't tell anyone you were going to vote or had the intentions and waited to see what happened. So lets pretend you weren't vague for a second still doesn't effect my case as a whole.

2. Let's rewind to exactly how we got to me "strawmanning your argument", and stop me when I'm wrong.

You quoted 484 AS AN EXAMPLE of me not getting info out of someone else to get reads.

I said "that's a shitty example for this point, but I don't do what your point is talking about"

You then said "find me an example where you did something with a line of questioning"

and I then gave you a whole game where I didn't use a line of questioning as town.

So you did a line of questioning this game and you show a town game where you didn't do it at all. My point was you did nothing (nothing showed in your reads) with your questioning so it's basically filler and basically a attempt to look town. Not you don't question as town. How hard is it to understand what you linked me is different from what i'm asking.

Then you bring it back and frame it as something else, that this one post does not push them game forward, but your original point was
You haven't done anything with the questions you asked to form any reads.


which I answered in a perfectly legitimate fashion: That I don't do that regardless of alignment.

This shows you knew I was talking about you doing stuff with question you asked this game.

[Garmr]

@nos
Two simple questions then that sorts out your bullshit roundabout arguing.
Would your actions yesterday benefit a scum around the invis wagon benefit a scum nos yes or no? 9I think it's pretty clear all the ways it would of)
What benefit did it bring to a town nos?

[Garmr]

I'm literally just not going to read garmr's wall

too fucking aggravating

VOTE: tommy

Well at least do this

@nos
Two simple questions then that sorts out your bullshit roundabout arguing.
Would your actions yesterday benefit a scum around the invis wagon benefit a scum nos yes or no? 9I think it's pretty clear all the ways it would of)
What benefit did it bring to a town nos?

[Garmr]

Would your actions yesterday benefit a scum around the invis wagon benefit a scum nos yes or no? 9I think it's pretty clear all the ways it would of)
What benefit did it bring to a town nos?

For the sake of just answering this question, I'll assume actions mean "being vague" or haphazard or whatever around the invis wagon, and that it was intentional.

No they didn't benefit scum nos because it was an unnecessary action to begin with because I was already in a position to vote invis, and scum nos could have just voted instead of positioning to vote and then not voting, which is just weird. It could work if you played dumb and were like "I didn't know how I felt on the slot and ended up not voting," but why would you do that lol?

It had no benefit to town nos other than maybe if I didn't know how I felt about the slot, but that's not a cause that's a symptom.

Sigh never mind.

Just drop the whole vague thing sigh. It was only meant to boost my point. It demoralising that you keep bringing it up and feels like you don't address what I want you to actually address. I will now assume you weren't being vague on purpose or I just couldn't read just don't bring it up again or what ever if you focus on the substantial part of my case.

I just wanted to say in short if you not jumping on invis and waiting to see what happened would benefit a scum nos. Finally what benefits that would bring to town nos.

[Garmr]

BlueBloodedToffee looks like town.
Aristophanes looks like town.
Teacher looks like town.
Performer looks like town.
Wavemode looks like town.

Tchill13 sort of looks like town.
Nosferatu sort of looks like town.
Gosrir sort of looks like town.

Garmr sort of looks like scum.

Lefty's slot looks like scum.

That's where I am after hardcore skimming (i.e.: half-reading... not even that) the posts after the start of day 2.

Also: VOTE: Garmr

Jesus is it just me or has the quality of the mafia scum player base dropped since I last played. Since no one makes cases anymore.

[Garmr]

Also the majority of the players don't seem to give a fuck that this games current flow is toxic to town and I can only change so much.

[Garmr]

The games current flow is nobody gives a damn.

which is toxic.

Lynch garmr

Why do you even bother playing mafia?

[Garmr]

The games current flow is nobody gives a damn.

which is toxic.

Lynch garmr

Why do you even bother playing mafia?

To lynch scum

No I mean in general, this can apply to everyone who's voted me with out reason. If you get enjoyment out of demotivating town (which I am) then congra a fucking lations you did. I wanted this game to be the one to proved I changed to be a better player one that wouldn't rage and that I matured. I got denied entry into a few games because of my reputation so this I wanted to use this as a example of me changing.

I rolled a generic town role so I was really happy. I thought it would be fun and less pressure since I have pride in my scum game and I didn't want to risk losing one because of being rusty. Day 1 was hard for me but I attributed to me being rusty and I only got a few reads and that when day 2 passed I could get into my old self. Then when I made the case on nos I got excited because I thought we'd get a lynch on scum. But people were resisting the wagon with out throwing out reasons why they town read him. I could of pretty much coasted on all the town reads I was getting from the nos wagon but I really wanted to lynch scum and get reactions out of people and make sure town had more info to go on. Which is why I made post Post 1071 to get reactions and finally some information out of players who didn't seem to post much. I thought least if it back fired and I got lynched from it town would have more information and my lynch would be the death of scum.

Boy I couldn't predict what would happen next. 5 total votes with out reasoning. I know I probably wouldn't be lynched today but 5 votes with out reasons! I wanted someone at least one person to make a case I don't care if it so good despite misrepping me would lead to my lynch today just give me one fucking case so I don't have to be scared of being mislynched for nothing despite the effort I'm putting in.

[Garmr]

finally a case yes

[Garmr]

damn it... the first 4 quotes are day 2 posts. They both vote nos together though? then performer votes garmr AGAIN!!!

I'm quite happy to vote performer. I think If nos is town the people jumping between me and nos (aka you and performer) contains atleast 1 scum as both of you have been playing both sides of the fence with little reasoning. Performer and you are likely to be scum no matter how me or nos flips. But if nos flips town (because I will) I would recommend town to guarantee a lynch between you two ignoring everyone else. But if nos flips scum I would want town to watch both you closely.

[Garmr]

I honestly wouldn't mind a Nos lynch tbh. He feels like a scum slot that's coasting by. He hasn't made any real hard pushes.
His scum reads

{invis, GEO, performer}

are pretty much regurgitated from general Concensus which he added nothing new.

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Also chuck a few towns reads like byron and gus

So his previous scumreads are in the middle of the list So i'm just going to assume that means wave,tommy and I are null judging from his wording. So nothing really changed. Everything else feels fake a bland here. Nothing in his previous post indicate a thought process that leads up to this. Also would like to mention he positioned himself where he could vote Invis yesterday if needed but didn't touch it. He also barely interacted with the invis wagon and put himself in a position to lynch it if need be.

VOTE: nos

P:edit
damn that's a lot of post in the time I took to write this.

Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today.
VOTE: nosferatu

Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.

I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.

VOTE: garm

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

@teacher ah, I see
@bbt I was reading your profile. Also, you are one of the fm players I model my play after
@tommy we have alts in here? Who are they alts of?

VOTE: garmr
Lurkers make me suspicious.

VOTE: Performer/vote]
Oh my god you suck

But on a serious note you seem to give off a buddy buddy vibe with your posts 26/39

VOTE: Performer

So it registers on the vc correctly, if you still use the automated approach.

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

I was looking at order of listed, not color. To me it looks like TChill is his 3rd highest scum read, so I was curious about that. If they're just grouped by color and not in any particular order - then ignore my question.

The colours normally mean reads green-town, black-null and red-scum. I'm not sure if they are ordered but even if they are it wouldn't necessarily means he scums reads him. What do you think he should be higher on the list?

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"

FOS: gustavo

This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.

Lefty: posting gives me a town tone such as the ones where he asks questions, like the one posed to Nos about the point of his post. I also like his interrogation of bbt on pg 4.

Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.

Garmr: rvs voted him because he was the last one to the game - hence I suspected him lurking. Shows up, omgus votes me & said I was buddying someone??, later puts up a sharp interrogation post to chill, on pg 4. His questioning and other posts, make me think he's got a sensible head on his shoulders in figuring out the game.

Chill: voted me & mentioned pushing a lurker... what in the? I’ve posted literally just yesterday when the game first began. What’s your definition of lurking?
I like his posting overall, he certainly is proactive like bbt. But other posts like not wanting to lynch specific people, posts like that make me wonder wth? If anything, I'll chalk it up to personal bias, as I have biases too on fm.

Teacher: voted bbt since he didn’t provide reasoning….but it was only pg 3 by that time.

---------------
That's what I got so far.

RED FLAGS.

so performer and garmr only voted each other or they BOTH voted invis d1. Well that seems odd because why would you vote with your only other read that you were compelled to vote d1? Why only vote 2 players d1? Then you sit on that vote with the other guy for most of d1...

IS this why Byron got off after the claim? That way all 3 scum weren't on the wagon d1? Now this is a stretch for sure. It's feasible though.

Yes I as scum would mirror with performer to a tee lol. You obviously don't know how I would play scum but that's ok. Scum should vary their play from their team mates at critical parts. They should also get involved with town groups. But I'm really happy you actually made a case on me.

That being said I would rather have performer lynched before you mislynched me.

[Garmr]

I'll vote Performer if Garmr does

VOTE: performer

[Garmr]

response to 1219


I think the latter I feel like tommy is town. He gives me a good feeling so I don't want to see him lynched.

[Garmr]

@Garmr hopefully i dont seem hypocritical about making wall posts while i do a catch up. I hope you can understand why im mkaing all the quotes here and objected to others. Not trying to be a jerk lol.

That's fine lol I'm making a post showing the link between you and performer at the moment.

[Garmr]

Tchill your interactions with performer are interesting.

VOTE: performer

You shown you have reads why vote someone who hasn't posted since rvs and with out explanation?

idk you tell me? what POSSIBLE reason could i have for stating my reads then naked voting someone not on that list? could it be to form a new read? maybe to poke a lurker and see how they react?

im not making fun. the level of simple questions is pretty high in this game. idk what you expect me to say that you couldn't possibly figure out on your own.

letting ppl slide through d1 isn't how to play d1.

You naked voted him not because you scum read him but to get a reaction because his a lurker and/or you wanted a read. Seems pretty weak

alright i'll be back in a bit i expect a full wagon on performer and those who don't participate are his scum buddies lol.

This seems like a bit of scum theatre as you want to form a wagon on someone you don't even scum read. Also you might of thought this would look good if performer flips. It would be bus.

You’re also still arguing from the logic standpoint, which I think is not very difficult to do as scum. You’re countering my points by pointing at actions that are supposed to be Townie. I’m much more concerned about lynching who I think is scum than seeing who is acting the most Town.

i'm a logical person, what can I say. If you are interested in lynching scum you have to A. find them and B. convince others to do that.

You haven't done either of those things yet. I get you think i am scum, but your reasons for scum reading me aren't very good. You just don't like my playstyle which is fine, I am not really interested in arguing with you about your reasons, but i will push you to do part 2 of the job of a townie. You already said you are fine sitting back which is lazy or it's scum trying to avoid actual scum hunting.

just so we are clear from this point where gus posted this im gonna be pretty suspicious here of ppl that would rather lynch gus than sort Performer/gosrir and/or get a few more in depth reads on others? poking gus is fine but if he's lynched today scum will be on his wagon whether he is town or scum. since town rarely lynch scum d1 without a scum bus. Scum would more than likely jump on his wagon to keep other town from sorting.

Gus hasn't done anything scummy. A few RVS votes. Voted Performer. I fail to see how lynching Gus is the best option.

Performer/invis/gosrir/teacher are much better lynch options in no particular order.

Now performer becomes a scum read. Before you were only pushing him to get reads ect. You don't give no explanation why. Espically since he responded to you with

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"

FOS: gustavo

This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.

Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.

Lefty: posting gives me a town tone such as the ones where he asks questions, like the one posed to Nos about the point of his post. I also like his interrogation of bbt on pg 4.

Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.

Garmr: rvs voted him because he was the last one to the game - hence I suspected him lurking. Shows up, omgus votes me & said I was buddying someone??, later puts up a sharp interrogation post to chill, on pg 4. His questioning and other posts, make me think he's got a sensible head on his shoulders in figuring out the game.

Chill: voted me & mentioned pushing a lurker... what in the? I’ve posted literally just yesterday when the game first began. What’s your definition of lurking?
I like his posting overall, he certainly is proactive like bbt. But other posts like not wanting to lynch specific people, posts like that make me wonder wth? If anything, I'll chalk it up to personal bias, as I have biases too on fm.

Teacher: voted bbt since he didn’t provide reasoning….but it was only pg 3 by that time.

---------------
That's what I got so far.

What in the post did you find scummy at the time since before you were only voting him because he was a lurker and wanted more info. Despite him actually turning out to be a lurker in this period of time (pretty much the first day) this was not the case so it comes off as odd that it's your major push with him.


So you pretty much left your vote on performer the whole day (your first vote was rvs and your second vote on teacher was a rvs breaker until it came time to lynch invis. Also despite you saying why don't you lynch performer you never actually made a case as to why he was scum earlier. Which makes me think you wanted town cred for his lynch.

Also despite scum reading performer

Votecount 1.12

Invisibility

(4): Garmr, Performer, ByronVilla, Tchill13

Gosrir Elmer Odels

(3): Invisibility, BlueBloodedToffee, Nosferatu

Performer

(2): Gustavo, wavemode

Gustavo

(1): teacher

Nosferatu

(1): Tommy Egan

ByronVilla

(1): Lefty

teacher

(1): Gosrir Elmer Odels

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-06-25 14:45:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

You were quite happy jumping off him to be on the same wagon as him. Effectively being the one to tip the wagons against invisibility's while killing the chances of performer being lynched that day despite being your scum read.

Then instead of pushing performer and voting him he doesn't talk about him all day and we get this.

Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.

Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today.
VOTE: nosferatu

VOTE: nos

This is fine.

Holy shit straight after each other and no questioning your former scum reads intent the guy you spent the whole day 1 pushing.

Then

Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.

I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.

VOTE: garm

VOTE: garmr

stop with the walls please.

You follow his vote again.


Also

No surprise that your two choices are town. I made the Performer wagon a no-go because he made it clear to me he was town. And before he did that people were trying to lynch him based purely on lurking whilst stating awful reasons to try and justify it.

I think only TChill said he was trying to gain information/force involvement. Gus, Nos and Wave (?) all tried to justify their position on the wagon as if Performer (with 5 posts) was the scummiest scummer to ever scum. That's not happening whilst I'm around.

Am I scum based purely on a pre-flip association with Performer or is there more?

Also, why is Performer scum?

im catching up rn. BBT and PErformer are probably the same alignment.

RED FLAGS.

so performer and garmr only voted each other or they BOTH voted invis d1. Well that seems odd because why would you vote with your only other read that you were compelled to vote d1? Why only vote 2 players d1? Then you sit on that vote with the other guy for most of d1...

He keeps trying to link performer alignment up with other people. Which makes me think he knows performer is scum and his trying to line up a lynch.

[Garmr]

after saying this performer is the lynch I'm going for today.

[Garmr]

Garmr, can you review my Tommy post please and give me your thoughts?

I feel like town are just pulling in so many different directions. It's real hard to find a consensus here as people just keep pushing their own reads.

Ok will do.

[Garmr]

These are so bad, nos can I have a readslist if there isn't one between pages 21 onwards.

This is in relation to two posts from a conversation with Nos and myself.

The intention is clearly there and now I have kicked up a fuss about it nobody will be leaving is easily/quietly.

I have forced people on the wagon to defend their position on it. They had the chance to get off - and didn't take it. Now they're committed.

yeah ok but there was no reason to do this. People don't get lynched on page 18.

Don't they? Fuck it you're scum to me now.

And then this. And all of a sudden Nos is super scum. You have made a total of 2 posts relating to Nos - I don't understand the conviction in this read. Can you explain why that statement from Nos was so scummy?

be careful scumreading gus

you might just be a closet bigot

That’s also interesting but could be nothing

well it means they're not scum together.

Yeah, of the 4 on my wagon, disliking Nos the most. Added to sr . Feels like he's sliding by and just keeping his read there on me.

gonna do something about it?

Oh look Nos still literally providing nothing. I know that's rich coming from me but active lurking is 100% worse than not posting at all. The fact people are town reading this active lurking genuinely concerns me.

Then this - which seems slightly unfair on Nos given that the second post is clearly providing content.

Then at the end of this post you vote Nos - after reviewing your reasoning I fail to see how your Nos scum read is so strong. In fact, that troubles me that this is still your strongest scum read in the entire game given this is your reasoning. Your reasoning for BV!scum seem much stronger and yet you never entertain it.

What don't you get about the nos vote? I have my reasons more than once in my posts

From this point on, you just make posts like this (which you only did once on D1) as if to avoid having to address your scum read. I see now why you won't reiterate your points - it's a super weak read and yet your strongest in the game.

So I think my point about your push on Nos being weak on D1 was correct, you made a total of 4 posts maximum related to him (and they were contained in walls). You didn't push Nos very hard at all and yet entered D2 like Nos was confirmed scum.

After reviewing this, Tommy's reads are super weak. I don't understand how you think you pushed Nos so hard and yet you spent the majority of D1 actually pushing on BV. And then somehow you end up on the Invis wagon.

VOTE: Tommy

This is the lynch for Today.

I agree that his point on nos's 452 was weaker than I remembered and I think his push tchill was better than nos because some of his tchill points in 684 mirror mine. He doesn't ring scum to me through. I may have some bias on his slot because he resonated with me but I can see how he could come to those conclusions because I came to similar ones as well and I'm town.

[Garmr]

It's not the conclusions I have a problem with Garmr - it's the severity of the reads and the reasoning behind them.

I don't get why he doesn't push or vote BV.
I don't understand how Nos is his biggest scum read given his reasoning (especially compared to his reasoning for BV)
I don't understand how or why he jumped on the Invis wagon to force a claim.

You don't have any problems with this?

I can't answer any of these with certainty but the first one doesn't worry me. He said that bv was a info lynch and invis lynch was inevitable. The only one that concerns me is the nos>tchill.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Nos
Getting the feeling Garmr is actually Town this game.

I think I been town in all your games. I remember mislynching you through.

[Garmr]

Ircher

In post 1334, Garmr wrote:

In post 1329, Katsuki wrote:
Man that dead QT was salty.

Early on this game sucked, but once the hangman started it became incredibly enjoyable.

Omg the hangman was enjoyable I loved it. More games need to be as fun as that no 100% salt

No, the hangman killed it. As at that point, no one really cared anymore.

In post 1334, Garmr wrote1362:Tbh I just lynched ircher because he was annoying as well. @rc if you stayed in the game I would of played better i missed you.

Now i remember the game we had together.

Type of slug
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

[Garmr]

That game was awful, don’t bring it back up.

I AM NO GARMR I AM KAINTEPES

[Garmr]

I’ll go back to voting you out of spite if you keep this up.

Hahaha ok I will be serious I needed to have a laugh this game.

[Garmr]

Why should we lynch Performer?

(Starts singing in tune of frozen- snow man)
Can we lynch performer
I think he might be scum
Tchills change of heart on him made me paranoid
That nos may be toooowwwnnn

Can we lynch performer
Him and tchill played both fields
When I didn't yield
On nos vote
ok bye

[Garmr]

So nos being town has nothing to do with nos's play it's because of me? From NM's perspective. Makes sense.

I not mafia think you are scum.

[Garmr]

So nos being town has nothing to do with nos's play it's because of me? From NM's perspective. Makes sense.

I not mafia think you are scum.

Shocker.

I not mafia town read garmr his towniest town.

[Garmr]

It's definitely OK to TR garmr. Why do you TR garmr?

Because his sexy as fuck

[Garmr]

Garmr, I appreciated the humor but actually read two of your posts as if they were NM (and was stunned NM had made a song, not just a oneliner), so do you mind changing Avis?

Tchill hasn't figured it out yet shh.

[Garmr]

Kinda figured that Tommy would flip town and what sucks most is his reads were really close to mine. So lets lynch scum today.

VOTE: Tchill

[Garmr]

So lets lynch scum today.

I agree

VOTE: Garmr

I wish I was a Vig I would shoot you for your play style alone.

[Garmr]

You do a vig shot, it's your factional kill

Tbh I wish I was scum this game I got this horrible feeling they are going to win.

[Garmr]

That being said

Votecount 2.09 - FINAL

Tommy Egan

(7): BlueBloodedToffee, wavemode, Nosferatu, teacher, Performer, Tchill13,

Ircher

Nosferatu

(3):

Tommy Egan

, Gosrir Elmer Odels, Aristophanes

Performer

(2): Garmr, Not_Mafia

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-07-05 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

In the Nosferatu,teacher, Performer, Tchill13 group There's likely to be scum 1 or 2 are most likely to be scum.

These people had the weakest reasoning to jump on. Teacher Is a bit of exception through as he had scum read Tommy earlier I just disagree with his reasoning so his less likely to be actual scum.

But I find it hilarious all my day 2 scum reads are the ones that are left. Through I think I have to be one with at least one as I don't see them all being scum together.

Performer,tchill played both sides of Nos and I wagons and jumped on both wagons mislynches.

Votecount 1.13 - FINAL

[

b]Invisibility[/b

] (7): Garmr, Performer, Tchill13,

Tommy Egan,

Gustavo, Gosrir Elmer Odels, BlueBloodedToffee

Gosrir Elmer Odels

(2):

Invisibility,

Nosferatu

Performer

(1): wavemode

Gustavo

(1): teacher

ByronVilla

(1): Lefty

Not Voting

(1):

ByronVilla

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-06-25 14:45:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends
• Gustavo on V/LA

[Garmr]

Mod: did Ircher know who Byron Jailkept?

. I see some crumbs but want to make sure.

I'm guessing me if he wanted to use jailkeep to protect a town read aka me.

aite this is mainly a prodge, however at a quick glance

I'm noticing a wagon on Garmr and I am very confused, I swear he was like universally townread.

Also I'll get to Nos tomorrow, I've been doing some casting over the last two days so my attention's been on that.

How ‘bout you do the same? (The above is based on my role and my thoughts after quickly glancing through 20 or so pages from the start of Day 2)

Answer me this: what percentage of people townread Garmr, and what percentage scumread Garmr?

TChill, you’re next!

(Also: Garmr = 99% Town)

Also going to chuck this out there because it's a bit of set up speculation/night kill speculation.

On top of my other reasons I think Tchill is scum. I also think he is a scum investigative role of some kind. I think he used some investigative ability on byronvilla night 1 rolecop most likely. This would explain his radical change of behaviour and reads when it came to day 2. He came in with the knowledge that Byronvilla was jailkeeper. Also I was being shot night 1. This explains the radical change in philosophy

I think garmr is town.

Guess who has the most to gain from not lynching invisibility whether he's town or scum?

Scum.

I think invisibility should be lynched. Ascetic should claim at start as to not waste towns power roles. It makes me think it's a fake claim.
His early game was incredibly scummy; His votes were jumpy and he picked every big wagon. He jumped on byronvilla because of he misunderstood the reaction from the masses and thought he could push that lynch.

He then votes geo when asked by BBT what his thoughts are. I would think he would of gone back to voting him earlier as town since he was a earlier scum read.

His latter plays seem null but they don't really match a natural progression of scum hunting. They seem to be adapting to what he think towns wants.



Also just throwing this out I think Tommy Egan is town

tchill, are you townreading garmr because he's scumreading me?

nothing in garmr's post is wrong which is why im TRing him.

To this

In my opinion the push was too slow for it to be a push by scum. Like, the wagon was consistently on like 4 people for super long before everyone just kinda went 'Let's just lynch Invis'. It didn't feel like a lynch on scum, but a lynch for the sake of a lynch. I don't think there were many people who really were convinced Invis were scum, and that felt like a problem to me. It meant scum could lynch town with the excuse of 'it gives us info so let's do it'.

Invisibility

(4): Garmr, Performer, ByronVilla, BlueBloodedToffee

Also I think one of these are scum. Ironically I'm on there, but I feel like one of these just parked their vote and rode the wagon out to an easy D1 town lynch. Now I TR Garmr and I'm gonna take myself out, so my lynchpool coming into today is between Performer & BBT. That's obviously subject to change as the day plays out, but I'm gonna have my eyes on those two.

this list in that order is most likely scum to least likely scum lol.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

Knowing that byronvilla jailed me he probably assumed That byron would lay a vote onto me eventually and so posted that to set up for the mislynch. He probably didn't compered that some people use Jail keeper as a pseudo doctor.


Also Tchill would not of made the night kill last night because it was crumbed by ircher and scum would of figured out irchers role was jailkeeper from night 1 actions

TChill, you’re next!

(Also: Garmr = 99% Town)

I think I deserve a Nomination for the scummies if I'm right on this.

[Garmr]

If garmr was jail kept then wouldn't this mean he was the scum that's was supposed to kill? How the hell would that clear him? He just hopped on that and tried to get town cred really quick.

I'm telling you. Bbt and garmr. Write it down lock it in. I'll walk through it with anybody.

It doesn't clear me I never said it did. To anyone that's not me it means scum tried to kill or I am scum which doesn't really mean to much. Kinda funny how you tried to push that image I was trying to get some sort of town cred. It's pretty obvious I was using it to show another reason I scum read you from my pov and why we should lynch you.

Hell I don't mind being lynched if everyone promises to lynch you tomorrow.

@everyone who's not tchill
This is scum sweating. Looked at his panicked responses since I made that post.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Nos

I like your posting Garmr. My primary reason for thinking TChill could be scum was his staunch defence of BV and I couldn't understand why. I guess your posting makes sense and is a possibility - but there are also a couple of other possibilities where TChill is town and TChill wants to lynch Nos Today so I guess he can live for now.

Nos really should be the lynch today.

No tchill first. While I'm alive because people who would vote tchill seem to end up in the dead thread. Tommy who had a scum read of tchill he got voted and ircher scum read him you see what happened to him.

[Garmr]

Garmr, TChill is a much more valuable asset to town if he is town.

I would much rather be wrong on Nos than wrong on TChill. Also, I don't think there is a chance in hell that Nos flips green.

If he scum (which he is) he is a more valuable asset to them.

[Garmr]

Oh so when I called people up for reasoning yesterday you offered none kinda took you a week or two to pull up a half assed reason so lets break it down.

As d2 progressed,

Garm started sounding off due to the tone of his posts and the big push on nos on d2.

And as I said before, nos/garm & geo/tommy - I believe are unlikely the same alignments.


I have nos as tr from the nos v garm long debate. Still don't think garm is town.
VOTE: garm

Chill quit changing your voting to anyone other than garm!

Also, you've seen my scum game already and I'm not even scum in this game.
I have a good idea of where the 2nd partner is and possibly the 3rd, but that should be a conversation for another day.
-----------
@bbt what are you talking about? How were teacher, garm, & tommy the counterwagons based on that vca you posted?...

-So what in my tone sounded scummy to (since tone is a generic statement which scum could use) and what in my argument was scum motivated. Also what was my motivation to keep pushing hard after I got a bunch of town reads on myself from town me. Seriously these are just blanket statements I could use for anyone in this game. Also if my push on nos made me null why did you sheep my case?

-Also why do you overlook the fact me and nos may be a town v town. You seem to keep pushing that I must be a opposite alignment from him. You should be experienced enough to know by now that town are just as likely to push other town really hard even if you dislike the reasons. Tchill is a bit more forgivable because his newer. But you aren't a newb or a village idiot so you should take everything in consideration.

-Also saying I think these people may be scum but I'm not saving them for another day is pretty shite. Because if I get lynched and flip town you can just pretend they aren't scum reads if they even exist in the first place and shrug it off. Town should be afraid that their scum reads won't get lynched as they might be the night kill. It comes off as you feel like you won't NKed.

Coaching

[Garmr]

If garmr was jail kept then wouldn't this mean he was the scum that's was supposed to kill? How the hell would that clear him? He just hopped on that and tried to get town cred really quick.

I'm telling you. Bbt and garmr. Write it down lock it in. I'll walk through it with anybody.

Garm's talk about being jailkept was just too weird to me. If he's town, which I don't believe he is, it doesn't make sense for him to post that.

Mod: did Ircher know who Byron Jailkept?

. I see some crumbs but want to make sure.

I didn't see any breadcrumbing whatsoever
also I don't think the mod can answer that but I do hope he at least let ircher know who byron jailkept on n1

Speaking of that, I just thought of something - I should review byron & ircher's ISOs for clues on who they jailkept on n1. That could be very helpful.

Ari is probably town for this aloofness

Man...you & ari had such good predecessors on d2 & d1. Towned up your slots . Otherwise I'd probably be against you two by now

Literally quotes breadcrumbs in my post showing you read it. Also other players seemed to pick up on it easily. So you should know this and should of checked them yourself before posting this post. Also there's plenty of reasons a town may think it especially with crumbs. Just you don't want to state any of them so you can reach to try and get the appearance of having a point.

The amount of intellectual dishonesty in this post is high.

[Garmr]

Seriously these are just blanket statements

When I said this I meant your statements.

[Garmr]

Iirc Your push on nos made you null to me and longer tr. Later you continued it, and his response looked genuine tr reaction. So, therefore the read on you changed.

So because you quote on quote "thought nos had a town reaction at the time" me not interrupting that way makes me scum? Weak.

I actually didn't see any crumbs . Teacher bringing it up, could be a town sign. So, that's why I thought of looking into their ISOs - could help reads for instance.

I'm curious to hear what geo and wave have to say

@garm what's your read of geo?

So that either makes you absolute trash at seeing obvious crumbs everyone has seen and I even pointed out or willful blindness as teacher puts it. I think it's the latter.

Geo= null maybe null-town. Hard to put in any category.

[Garmr]

@Performer

aite this is mainly a prodge, however at a quick glance

I'm noticing a wagon on Garmr and I am very confused, I swear he was like universally townread.

Also I'll get to Nos tomorrow, I've been doing some casting over the last two days so my attention's been on that.

Indicates he town read me. jail-keeper can be used as a pseudo doctor.

How ‘bout you do the same? (The above is based on my role and my thoughts after quickly glancing through 20 or so pages from the start of Day 2)

Answer me this: what percentage of people townread Garmr, and what percentage scumread Garmr?

He has the result of byron thing he wanted to ask town how I was perceived so he could make judgement on the result.

TChill, you’re next!

(Also: Garmr = 99% Town)

Judges I was town (eventually) and says the next jail will be Tchill.

Those are the three big crumbs that stood out to me.

[Garmr]

Doesn't jailkeep work both ways? Prevents a kill and protects from a kill?

Yes that's why ircher asked how town perceived me day 1 and tbh no one scum read me which made me a likely scum kill. The reason I mention me being jailkeeped is because of tchill's reaction as explained in post 1362.

To explain it again quickly since you seem slow on the uptake and before you misrepresent anything I say.

-His sudden shift of read in me after I was jailed showed he had knowledge of that byron was a 1.jailkeeper and 2.I was his role target. A town member can only have at most 1 set of information not both. If Tchill was a town tracker he would see byron target me but wouldn't know Tchill role so his sudden shift on my read wouldn't be explained. If Tchill was a rolecop he wouldn't know I was targeted and his reaction towards me wouldn't be explained. Scum would know the night kill target and only tchill would know the role if he was a rolecop.

[Garmr]

I just read up on it. It doesn't confirm alignment. That and The fact that garm is using ircher 's crumbs that only he and teacher brought up,

to say he's town due to crumbs ... Lol.

You guys must have some interesting reading power because no way would I have thought he's crumbing.

That also implies he jailed garm n1, then someone other than garm killed ircher on n2 after they saw the crumbing.

Quit this game replace out you aren't obviously reading this game.

[Garmr]

If garmr was jail kept then wouldn't this mean he was the scum that's was supposed to kill? How the hell would that clear him? He just hopped on that and tried to get town cred really quick.

I'm telling you. Bbt and garmr. Write it down lock it in. I'll walk through it with anybody.

It doesn't clear me I never said it did. To anyone that's not me it means scum tried to kill or I am scum which doesn't really mean to much.

Kinda funny how you tried to push that image I was trying to get some sort of town cred. It's pretty obvious I was using it to show another reason I scum read you from my pov and why we should lynch you.

Hell I don't mind being lynched if everyone promises to lynch you tomorrow.

@everyone who's not tchill
This is scum sweating. Looked at his panicked responses since I made that post.

[Garmr]

Actually, let's assume TC's a scum PR. Then it's essentially Tracker or RC, right? If he's a tracker, he cannot know BV's the gaolor, so he should assume doctor (by Occam's razor.) If he's RC, he could learn that BV's the gaolor, but whom he targeted. It could be either the meant-to-be NK, or

the meant-to-be NKer.

& in both cases we still have the question: why would any scum investigative role target BV of all people?

I actually didn't think of the bolded. But to answer why would he pick BV over anyone else. It probably be BV's reaction to invis claim. It seemed like it had a impact on TC. But that made me think he could put me and nker in his lynch range which is why he only said tingles with no reasoning so he could back out.

But saying this I been scum reading him since day 1 and I don't think this is the strongest point I have made. So I don't want this treated as the only reason I scum read him.

[Garmr]

Wow. Just...wow. Where are you even aiming from with the pr assumptions, geo. And we literally have been talking about how jailkeep doesn't mean someone is conftown.

And garm with the awful reason to suggest someone replace out. Shame on you

Meh I don't actually expect you to replace out. Just learn to actually read, because all your going to do is clog up the thread with useless stuff that's already been gone over.

[Garmr]

Garm what's your read on bbt then.

I'm treating him as a town read. I'm being cautious through because I'm a little paranoid on the slot.


That being said are you just asking for reads for the sake of it?

[Garmr]

Try to behave yourself. Do you believe the mason claim?

There's exactly one player I can imagine as mason to Perf. If they claim, I believe it, otherwise not.

basically same

I can't picture anyone.

[Garmr]

Are you caught up garmr?

BlueBloodedToffee

-Scum read by performer

Garmr

Confirmed not with Performer

Aristophanes

-Replaced from Gustavo who hard pushed Performer

Gosrir Elmer Odels

-Voted by Performer

Nosferatu

-Was voted by performer

Performer

-is performer

teacher

-scum read performer

wavemode

Voted performer

Not_Mafia

-was Voting performer

Tchill13

- Was voting performer.

Yeah but there's not one person who I can actually see being his mason buddy everyone has a reason we can rule them off.

[Garmr]

in fact it's still not valid since they can still crumb it today. it's not even mylo or lylo yet

Tomorrow is Lylo.

[Garmr]

Well unless we lynch scum today.

[Garmr]

Performer is either town or scum making a lie. I just have trouble seeing any partner.

[Garmr]

By that I mean his town mason or scum lying.

[Garmr]

Been thinking a mass claim proposal some one said before. It might not be a bad idea and we can work off the information it may even confirm some slots as town that weren't.

[Garmr]

I would even go first if I have to.

[Garmr]

I'll vote Performer if Garmr does

VOTE: Performer

......


I'm vt btw

[Garmr]

Lol, wtf.

If Lefty was scum I'll be stunned.

I Feel sorry for performer for having not mafia replace in as a mason buddy.

[Garmr]

Nos, Aristo and teacher must be the scum team.

If Garmr/Performer are scum then :shrug:

Which one are you going to vote???

[Garmr]

Using final vote counts I mark myself as green and assume the masons aren't lying and wavemode is cleared.4

Votecount 1.13 - FINAL

Invisibility

(7): Garmr, Performer,

Tchill13,

Tommy Egan,

Gustavo,

Gosrir Elmer Odels,

BlueBloodedToffee

Gosrir Elmer Odels

(2): Invisibility,

Nosferatu

Performer

(1): wavemode

Gustavo

(1): teacher

ByronVilla

(1):

Lefty

Not Voting

(1): ByronVilla

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-06-25 14:45:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends
• Gustavo on V/LA

Votecount 2.09 - FINAL

Tommy Egan

(7): BlueBloodedToffee,

wavemode,

Nosferatu, teacher,

Performer, Tchill13, Ircher

Nosferatu

(3):

Tommy Egan, Gosrir Elmer Odels,

Aristophanes

Performer

(2): Garmr, Not_Mafia

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-07-05 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

Votecount 3.05 - FINAL

Official Vote Count

Tchill13

(6): Garmr,

Nosferatu,

Not_Mafia, Gosrir Elmer Odels, wavemode,

teacher

Nosferatu

(2): BlueBloodedToffee,

Performer

Not Voting

(2): Tchill13

, Aristophanes

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-07-16 19:00:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

[Garmr]

Nos.

He should have been the lynch yesterday.

VOTE: Teacher

On the off chance you are scum and his town.

[Garmr]

If teacher was town I think they would of been lynched already with my vote.

[Garmr]

Like it should be apparent that either me or teacher is scum since I voted him and the game hasn't ended. It's mylo.

[Garmr]

You misunderstand. I didn't realize we has masons, but that's awesome. They often replace tosn investigatives and this strengthens my belief that Nos is Scum Invest. I am merely saying they should not be coloured in!

Also they usually replace Cop specifically so Oddnight Cop and Masons is odd.

no, YOU misunderstand. for you, ari, to consider a scenario where the masons are scum and nos is also scum, you are NECESSARILY considering a scenario where town's only power is odd-night cop and jailkeeper, minus the negative utility of an ascetic who can't be protected or investigated. in your opinion is that balanced?

im so confused by what you just said here

Nos, who do you believe is the scumteam

it would pretty necessarily be some combination of {aristo,

garmr,

bbt/teacher}

I'm town but

VOTE: nos

I was juggling between You and BBT and was hesitant to place a vote on either slot. But that help make up my mind.

If you're town and scum quick lynch, you have to next time read me properly and hopefully change your meta so it more informative for the next time because you really contributed nothing this game which was detrimental to town.

If you are scum then learn to you should of left things how they were and left me with the unease. Also You should of been lynched day 2 and it was my fault for tchill lynch over you day 3.

[Garmr]

4 votes on nos one more.

[Garmr]

Dammit PP I was hoping there would be a misguided quickhammer attempt so we could read into the motives. You ruin everything

I'm willing to put my foot down on bbt being town. I'd say it's necessarily a nos/Ari/teacher team

VOTE: Nos

I'm curious how I would be on a scumteam with Nos after this. Enlighten me?

Wifom nos is making Wifom

[Garmr]

You misunderstand. I didn't realize we has masons, but that's awesome. They often replace tosn investigatives and this strengthens my belief that Nos is Scum Invest. I am merely saying they should not be coloured in!

Also they usually replace Cop specifically so Oddnight Cop and Masons is odd.

no, YOU misunderstand. for you, ari, to consider a scenario where the masons are scum and nos is also scum, you are NECESSARILY considering a scenario where town's only power is odd-night cop and jailkeeper, minus the negative utility of an ascetic who can't be protected or investigated. in your opinion is that balanced?

im so confused by what you just said here

Nos, who do you believe is the scumteam

it would pretty necessarily be some combination of {aristo,

garmr,

bbt/teacher}

I'm town but

VOTE: nos

I was juggling between You and BBT and was hesitant to place a vote on either slot. But this helps make up my mind.

If you're town and scum quick lynch you, next time you'll have to learn to read me properly and hopefully change your meta so it more informative because you really contributed nothing this game, which I consider detrimental to town.

If you are scum then you should of left things how they were. leaving me with the unease between you and bbt. Also I think You should of been lynched day 2 and it was my fault for tchill lynch over you day 3.

Wow that's broken English shouldn't type when i'm tired.

[Garmr]

ok It's prob teacher and ari but I want to through vote counts and interactions.

[Garmr]

Intending to vote teacher

That's the safest option in my mind.

[Garmr]

Teacher or Ari for me.

Ari would be preference.

I am a bit paranoid about you at the moment, maybe you can clarify some things. Will post after I Surmise the issues I'm having.

[Garmr]

Actually scratch that BBT After reading your day 2 again I can see how you perceived Tommy and why you pushed back against the nos lynch.

[Garmr]

Intending to vote teacher

That's the safest option in my mind.

Seriously, why? Ive been a wagon D1 and D2, and each time asked for a reason only not to get one.

Process of elimination I'm town, we have 2 confirmed town in masons. I'm pretty sure BBT is town becuase nos's 1502 implies he thinks

BBT is the mason

and I don't think his that good at setting up wifom. If I was in nos shoes and bbt was a scum buddy I would do this to but nos isn't me. The intention seems to be rolefishing. Also nos's fake tracker claim was pretty awful and unbelievable so This clears doubts up a bit for me.

Nos's 314 is defending you. Your 635 seems to be treading lightly with nos so he doesn't incriminate himself. Also nos tried to put you in a solid town block in post 1477

{aristo,

garmr,

bbt

/teacher}

This was final scum team list I know i'm town and BBT probally town and with so many confirmed town there's no one else he could scum read. Him putting you at the back was him subconsciously protecting you as well.


VOTE: Teacher

[Garmr]

Votecount 1.13 - FINAL

Invisibility

(7): Garmr,

Performer

,

Tchill13

,

Tommy Egan

, Gustavo,

Gosrir Elmer Odels

, BlueBloodedToffee

Gosrir Elmer Odels

(2):

Invisibility

,

Nosferatu

Performer

(1):

wavemode

Gustavo

(1): teacher

ByronVilla

(1):

Lefty

Votecount 2.09 - FINAL

Tommy Egan

(7): BlueBloodedToffee,

wavemode

,

Nosferatu

, teacher,

Performer

,

Tchill13

,

Ircher

Nosferatu

(3):

Tommy Egan

,

Gosrir Elmer Odels

, Aristophanes

Performer

(2): Garmr,

Not_Mafia

Votecount 3.05 - FINAL

Tchill13

(6): Garmr,

Nosferatu

,

Not_Mafia

,

Gosrir Elmer Odels

,

wavemode

, teacher

Nosferatu

(2): BlueBloodedToffee,

Performer

Not Voting

(2):

Tchill13

, Aristophanes

Garmr, I appreciate the reasoning and get why Im PoE suspect, but Im missing a pretty key step -- How are the masons conf town? Have they shown buried hints in posts? Have they ever voted together to magnify the voting power of supposed known!town? Did Nos flip scum!PR, as one would expect to counterbalance masons+protective+cop?

Set up sounds balanced to me.

Jail keeper could fuck up cop while leaving masons untouched,cop was limited and we had no even night cop claim, Everyone else is VT except the ascetic which would fuck town over even more. tbh town did not need a testicle in this set up.

[Garmr]

Wasn't teacher a counter wagon to Nos at some point?

I'll be getting to this as soon as I can - Teacher is a good lynch but I think Aristo is even better.

Looking through it.

Votecount 2.04

teacher

(4):

wavemode, Gosrir Elmer Odels, Tchill13,

BlueBloodedToffee

Nosferatu

(3):

Garmr, Tommy Egan, Performer

Aristophanes

(1): teacher

wavemode

(1):

Nosferatu

BlueBloodedToffee

(1): ByronVilla

ByronVilla

(1):

Not_Mafia

Not Voting

(1): Aristophanes

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-07-05 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

I think this where both wagons were pushing against each other. If you are town and you town read me That would mean that both wagons were full of town at this point.

[Garmr]

We're happy with Performer/NM as Masons yeah?

Just worth giving that a final thought.

Yep quite happy. If they're scum lefty deserves a medal. But I doubt that's the case with a jailkeeper, limited cop and ascetic. Mason's aren't out of place.

[Garmr]

Here's a crazy thought...

VOTE: NL

Wow nuts, eh?

If there are masons either Garmr and BBT are scum buddies forcing the lynch or one is with Teach and setting up some stupid gambit to get me lynched tomorrow rather than today. If they are town the masons have to be scum! I don't like to think this but I need one more flip in order to do anything here!

Guys, a lynch here is fucking wreckless!

A no lynch will make it easier for scum to quick hammer if a townie fucks up. With masons (which I believe) there is no point in delaying and everyone claimed roles. I'd rather scum not have the ability to lynch someone instantly if 1 townie makes a mistake. In this situation it's beneficial to lynch. A no lynch just gives scum more power over how the votes will go.

Garmr

and BBT are scum buddies forcing the lynch

This seems like a pretty weak last ditch effort from scum. So can I ask why you think how the scum team would be me,nos,bbt? Especially with me and nos. Also BBT could of ended the game by now if he was scum buddies with me. (In fact BBT could of ended the game if he was scum buddies with you) A town Ari should be able to read that.

You could eliminate me and bbt. Just like I can eliminate BBT ari scum team. Because the game would of ended by now. So if the mason are really masons which I'm praying they are that leaves confirms teacher as scum.

[Garmr]

I also can't be scum with the mason team or bbt or you. I can only be scum with teacher.

Teacher is scum or masons are scum. I think teacher is most likely to be scum.

[Garmr]

Garmr - why would I have towncleared you?

Im close to giving up given how many town are necessarily part of this wagon, but still......Look at D3, when I clear you and resist a quick lynch push from GEO, and tell me why I do that as scum?

Do you understand the situation. I'm not saying you cleared me I'm saying you eliminated these possible scum team combos.

Ari and I

bbt and ari

bbt and I

Since the game would of ended.




The only possible scum combo is

Mason team-They elinmate being scum with other people.

Teacher,me

Teacher,BBT

Teacher,ari

I can eliminate you and me and the town player out of bbt and ari can do the same from their perspective. So math says

Your 75% more likely to be scum at the moment from my perspective. From the masons perspective (if they are town) You are 100% confirmed.

With set up spec and early interactions with performer and lefty they are most likely town. (I can bet that not mafia didn't read his role pm and his performance this game is cringe worthy, Voting performer earlier on.)

[Garmr]

I also can't be scum with the mason team or bbt or you. I can only be scum with teacher.

Teacher is scum or masons are scum. I think teacher is most likely to be scum.

I agree, this just feels wrong.

BBT can hammer if he wants.

So who am I scum buddies with ari? Your post here just feels like a weak attempt at shade.

[Garmr]

im just trying to figure out

how the fuck would performer's claim get cc'd?

Say he's scum and there is no second mason

his scumbuddy claims mason at massclaim time

who the fuck cc's him?

Say he's town and there is a second mason

scum cc's the mason claim

Literally a cc confirms Performer's claim

Would like to mention scum did not want mason to claim. I think this is important. I think one would be if scum was in position to counterclaim a mason day 2 if they shot performer at night. Since the claim happened they could not touch performer. Scum fake claiming masons would only want one scum claim. The fact the other claimed the same day reduces the chance of them being scum together. Also scum would not shoot them to guarantee wifom.

[Garmr]

Given the clear majority requesting Performer claim and the lack of a response, I’m willing to threaten to accomplish the goal.

VOTE: tchill.

That’s L-1. I will rescind if the partner claims so that we can advance this game.

Would also like to add that he hammered tchill here.

[Garmr]

B . B B
A . A A
H . H H
..........
B B . B
A A . A
H H . H__ BAH

[Garmr]

@bbt:
"Secondly, town lost the game when TChill was lynched - we even said in our thread we're gonna have to kill him because he is never getting lynched. That was pretty nice play for teacher to get him out of the game."

Man. I never claimed like that ever, to save someone. I knew it was an impending doom once chill was lynched. Sigh.

"Would also like to know why Masons changed their minds, felt like I was fighting a lost cause."
It started to get to a terrible point of where aris looked like nos coasting , when garm called nos out. I remember scumreading nos, then townreading him, then we finally lynched nos, he flipped scum. I was just way too paranoid I was going to make the same mistake of giving aris a townread for WAY too long, and wave+

garm

+nm+chill kept saying yout (bbt) were null at worst or even town. I think from this point forward, I will play a little more like radiantcowbells, and not listen to others so much.
-------
@aris don't worry man...just learn and improve, that's all you should do when you sub in or join a new game as a new player, going forward. Huge thanks to you and Ircher and anyone else who subbed in.

That's true but I would of turned on BBT if ari declared intention to hammer teacher or pushed for a lynch on the masons at the end of the day. Because his actions in my mind registered to be protecting teacher like bbt.

Because BBT insistence to push ari over teacher was a scum claim in normal circumstances my eyes. Since he apparently town read the masons and town read me so it shouldn't matter which scum he lynches. Ari actions that followed BBT's left me confused so I disregarded what BBT did.


But all in all a great game was fun to read.

[Garmr]

Also my case on Nos was good

[Garmr]

@teacher: How did you notice I was a PR? o_O

Yeah I didn't notice that you were either. But Irchers was pretty easy to see from a mafia perspective since they have information town doesn't and ircher wasn't exactly discreet with the crumbs.

[Garmr]

Would like to read the mason thread.

[Garmr]

Also...Mason thread is in the previous page by the way

Yeah but none masons can't read it with out permission.

[Garmr]

Man. I think I'll lead the push on garm, it makes sense since people think I'm townier than garm and I've already exclaimed that I think he's scummy. I've got your's, likely nos's , possibly chill's support.

You under estimated me and over estimated your position I had the power of god and anime on my side.