Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

nancy likes to read the thread with the newest posts first

it's like reading manga

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Hi guys, I’m glad I got into to this game, thanks to Tora agreeing to hydra with me. He hasn’t caught me up yet, so I’ll have to figure out what’s been going on. Anyone care to catch me up? That would definitely speed things up. Thanks.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

should I stay, then?

drixx, I self voted cause that game was affecting my real life lol. getting rofl tunneled by town when I had done so much started to weigh on me emotionally and I didn't want to continue playing. and at no point did you give me any signs that you'd read my interpretation of the mechanics. you and almost everyone else there decided everyone who was supposed to vote for nero cain needed to die, which included the entire towncore we had. it ended up killing scum nancy for it, but it was wrong and you were supposed to know you can't read into mechanics the way you did because you didn't know the mechanics fully.

and tah-dah, scum had leader mechanics used that day

Of course. And if you look at the post game you'll see that I was intentionally trying to convince Math that I was pocketed. If I could give you one piece of advice for forum mafia it would be not to take everything at face value. Many players (including Cerb and I individually and in hydra) will do something that at first glance seems like one thing, but we're really doing it for some other reason.

I mean ... I dropped you a couple of low key hints that you shouldn't give up but I think you were just enough emotionally compromised to miss them.

Anyway ... the point of the exercise for me was to see how you reacted.

~D

well you convinced me you were pocketed by math. I took you at face value. I saw the posts where you were giving me space, but ultimately I had to read from you that you were swinged by anything I argued. you never did it. I self voted cause I didn't think you'd change your mind, I said it so then. your scumread on me was crucial for me to have any chance to get out of that.

I'll think of what you're trying to do in the future; for instance, I don't think any of your votes on me are serious and you're just trying to gauge my reactions from being wagoned. that post you made for people to not be dumb and vote me was fake as all hell, but then I managed to read it as a reaction test of sorts. you digging the pit for my body in heroes wanted was a much more difficult reaction test to read into

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

You should know me better than this RC. And your vote on me is bad. If you're so sure Elsa and Tor are scum, why vote me? You haven't even mentioned me much.

has chickadee been dayvigged yet? asking for a friend

lmao

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

omg that's literally a duck shrugging

cute

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Also as I pointed out Toranaga the last time he played with a survivor was insistient that the proper approach to survivor was to PL them because you can't trust anyone without a town role PM.

Since you're both still going to be here - I'd like a link to this please.

I'd also like to remind you that I asked how Elsa/Thor made sense to you - still curious.

I don't particularly want to agree with RC, but I think the "proscum" Toranaga comment does look like a legit slip.

Do you believe scum RC would play dirty by using a rep out as scum to save any integrity on a scum slot? Do you believe that scum RC would've given up?

Do you think RC would replace out as town to save the integrity of a town slot?

Hi guys, I’m glad I got into to this game, thanks to Tora agreeing to hydra with me. He hasn’t caught me up yet, so I’ll have to figure out what’s been going on. Anyone care to catch me up? That would definitely speed things up. Thanks.

With an awareness that I skipped 20 pages;

RC did a derpy mason claim apparently.
Elsa was caught out crumbing by Tor and has claimed to be, functionally, a Survivor with a Doc power.
Beyond that it's mostly spew trash posting that if you want real reads from you need to scan some spew and apply your own opinions about what constitutes scummy or pro town play.

Current;y I'd be pretty happy lynching yours or Rational's slot, Mala also.

I'd generally rather not lynch Elsa, the worst, Bujabber, and Stargazer.

I'd be content to lynch about the rest of the game.

You should blind sheep me.

Still not caught up but my opinion is that, you try to lynch scum before you worry about 3Ps - unless of course, you really don’t have any viable scumreads.

Wrt RC/Tora, I’m glad I don’t have to get put into the middle of that. I’m on reasonably good terms with both and I’d like to keep it that way.

I’m not very familiar with anyone’s play here but the worst and he seems like town from what I’ve seen so far.

I have played with RR before, so perhaps ISOing them, would be a good place to start?

Lololol, I’m not ever going to sheep a vote on me.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

P.edit. Forgot the mason thing. Do you believe it? Why or why not? @Thor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

people keep telling me firefly is awesome but I never got around to it

if only I find someone nerdy enough to watch with me on rabbit

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

people keep telling me firefly is awesome but I never got around to it

if only I find someone nerdy enough to watch with me on rabbit

-tor

wing = raised
timezones tho

we'll get around to it I'm sure

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: malakittens

if I roll with your RC read, cheeky

this will be scum

what? i don't logically follow. i'm pretty sure that cheeky is townreading RC, so why does town RC imply scum malakittens? my thinking was the exact opposite - rc and malakittens seem to have some history together and it seems like he's able to read her pretty well, so i've put her down as town for now.

that's you giving weight to RC's read on malakittens, which is fine but my read on mala is that her posting is scummy and her tvt read on me/rc, when mala is scum, makes RC slot town a lot. I explained this already.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

flicker seems town to me fwiw

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

that's you giving weight to RC's read on malakittens, which is fine but my read on mala is that her posting is scummy and her tvt read on me/rc, when mala is scum, makes RC slot town a lot. I explained this already.

her town v town read "when" she's scum? it sounds to me like you're either just assuming mala is scum or are committing some kind of logical fallacy.

are you just saying that in a vacuum you think mala's tvt read on you and RC makes her scum?

I think not taking a stance either way was scummy of mala, yes.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

"looks tvt" is a way to appease both parties and something I expect to come more from scum than town, relatively speaking

it doesn't "make her scum", but I think it's scummy

I don't think my argument with RC was alignment indicative in any parts where it was heated. it was purely personal trash from both sides.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

NSG naturally posting in the thread makes her town. it's not a hard read cause her town/scum ranges are imbalanced.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

"looks tvt" is a way to appease both parties and something I expect to come more from scum than town,

Why would mala need to appease you both?

she doesn't need to, but she might instinctively do it because scum doesn't want to be noticed and targeted. I see a lot on MS the scum calling shti tvt instead of making an actual stance. the people getting on with the dirt and drawing leans from it (e.g. you) are almost always town.

it's not a rule, just a tendency. she can be town doing it.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I kinda townread Tora switching to a hydra account.

So that plus my earlier thoughts on RC and him.. let's please lynch scum RC slot.

Damn it whatever.. you all can wait 4 day phases to reevaluate chara.

VOTE: flicker

Just checking in.

Still not changing my vote unless I'm required to break a tie.

I do have the reverse opinion of BuJaber and suspect that the Tor replacement into a Hydra might have been tactical. Skimmed most the rest of the game since my last post and don't have anything else significant to add.

Well, game was full and I already had a hydra with Tora, so I think you guys are reading into things.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

P.edit. This was my idea btw. I asked mod if he’d allow a single player to switch to a hydra. I only mentioned it to Tora after I got confirmation, then I badgered him nonstop until he said yes.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Lololol, I’m not ever going to sheep a vote on me.

I'm not voting you.
So sheep me.

P.edit. Forgot the mason thing. Do you believe it? Why or why not? @Thor

I don't see a lot of value in debating whether I believe it or not.
I don't have any interest in using it as a scum or town case.

Thor, you trying to pocket me? I haven't seen anything from me that I'd describe as town on this site tbh

How does me listing you as a town read translate to trying to pocket you exactly?

That's not what pocketing is.

NSG naturally posting in the thread makes her town. it's not a hard read cause her town/scum ranges are imbalanced.

What's her scum range?

I can only respond to the first quote since Tora made the other posts. I don’t “blindly” sheep anyone ever. I always make my own decisions and I can’t speak for Tora but I don’t even have a read on you yet.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I don’t “blindly” sheep anyone ever. I always make my own decisions

Okay.
Visually and as your decision - sheep me?

Why RR over mala - whom my partner is currently voting?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I think Mala is a fine vote, but RR is spending a lot of effort to say nothing while Mala is using minor effort to say nothing - I consider the former more scummy.
Why Mala (whom your partner is currently voting) over RR?

I’d rather not answer for him but he thinks RR is town and a good player. You will have to ask him why he thinks that.

I’m still getting caught up. I think that EJ is the towniest 3P ever. lol

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

@Tor thoughts on RR and Thor?

I didn't work on either ISO and didn't re-read anything so these are my impressions from just reading the thread in real time.

the way drixx and cerb are playing remind me a lot of their play as town in heroes wanted, which is the only experience I have with either. they're both analytical, cerb is more inquisite and drixx is more introspective. I remember townreading the slot emotionally as it was getting wagoned, but I don't remember why. they are both more or less exactly what I expect of them, so I have no reason to doubt they're town here. this isn't a null read btw, this is a townread. they're playing a version of their town games and are fine in my book. I also think the hydra is the strongest slot in the game and it should never be touched d1 because scum will want to SPK it.

Thor is curious. I've played with town!thor twice when I was also town, once in that game we met as you remember, and in another game I subbed out d1 when you were scum. a lot of what I see here is how thor phrases/questions people, but there's something he is doing here that's different from his other games, and it's both a difference in his personality and a difference in how he pushes people. I think it's really curious that he asked nancy to sheep him, as I don't expect him to, not when he is scumreading our slot, and not to anyone that just replaced in on d1. I expect town!thor to poke nancy to get a read off of her, question her on things, anything like that. I don't think thor believes asking nancy to sheep him will give him a reasonable read on nancy. and I don't think he is doing so because he strongly believes whoever he is voting is scum (I don't even know who he was voting then, it's how superficial he was about it). I also don't really expect thor to call my play "trash" in this game. I don't think I'm behaving any differently than the other games I had with thor, and even if I was, I expect him to act smarter when trying to parse me out. I don't remember us interacting on many things, if anything at all. I expect him to question me a whole lot here if he thinks I'm scum, and he is not doing that.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

that was tor, not nancy

but <3 to you too

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I was looking at it more as giving someone night immunity then stopping an actual kill. Now I have to be sneaky with my heals. Or are we going back to plan A?

there's the one that helps you the most, and the one that helps town the most. I'm fine with either. if you wanna achieve your wincon, don't be enough in the way of scum that they'll eventually want you dead because you can stop their kills. if you just wanna help town, be tricky and don't say who you're healing.

cerb's plan doesn't "control the heals" though. it controls nothing. it gives scum the person who is getting doc'ed, so that person will never die at night or they'll know when to use their 1-shot strongman and whatnot. it's turning the neutral doc into vanilla because "what if scum", which doesn't matter at all for so many reasons that I don't wanna start explaining.

my 2c

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

The fact that their initial proposal was being leashed...bothers me. I don't know them well enough to know if scum them would realize that being leashed would be the best way to avoid questions about their doctor choices in the future, as well as minimize the chances that any other scum, if such exists, would shoot at them, since they wouldn't actually be stopping kills.

I was hoping someone wouldn't bring this up, now they're alert to the fact that noone is giving them a heal target for a reason and they'll likely be more careful about their selection. I guess it's easy enough just to heal a credible villa either way. I have been keeping my opinion on Elsa pretty close to my chest. I particularly dislike the "pocketed" thing going on between Elsa/Tor but don't know what to make of it yet.

it just benefits elsa the most to give the target. he becomes someone no one will want dead for the rest of the game. it's of little utility for us, it doesn't trouble scum, and elsa isn't town numbers so he will never be a problem as long as he is faithful to his heal.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

having a doctor on someone the entire game hardly seems like it doesn't trouble scum to me

knowing where the doctor will go so it never stops a kill, though. and if scum has a single roleblock, a single redirect, a single strongman, they can get around it anytime they want. elsa being useless is good for elsa, and neutral to the rest of us. I'm fine with him playing that way, but let's not pretend he'll be as useful for town as if he acted like a real doc at night.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I'm not saying elsa thought those things either, which is why I'm telling him how to best play his role now. what elsa initially proposed is, accidentally or not, the best way to play his role.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

A note again, I cant be roleblocked. Just making sure we know that part.

Pedit: clearly ive been hinting my modifier for awhile, but no, I'm not compulsive.

If it helps, I'm Ascetic with a single BP.

I still 100% believe you but it's funny how you randed a role that benefits from d1 full claiming and then coasting to win with whatever side

neutral bp ascetic doctor survivor is mad

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

ascetic bulletproof third party...

note he doesn't have to be truthful about all of it

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

having a doctor on someone the entire game hardly seems like it doesn't trouble scum to me

knowing where the doctor will go so it never stops a kill, though. and if scum has a single roleblock, a single redirect, a single strongman, they can get around it anytime they want. elsa being useless is good for elsa, and neutral to the rest of us. I'm fine with him playing that way, but let's not pretend he'll be as useful for town as if he acted like a real doc at night.

I mean ... using up scum resources isn't nothing. And if they don't have a way around it, then if we leave Elsa to be sorted along the way, then we have a situation where we can protect strong town players and either force scum to shoot elsewhere or waste what are usually limited resources.

In a game where there is a cap on how many can die due to killing power, it's actually possible that forcing scum to shoot "not player x" could result in at least one less kill. And in a game where we have only so many mislynches and KPN we can absorb ... that's maybe considerably better than not nothing.

~D

P-Edit: Why the role spew? How does that help at all?

that's all true but not d1. we'll waste elsa tonight if he claims his target. elsa can be open about their targets whenever your second paragraph actually holds true. that's not tonight, is it drixx?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

having a predeclared target is actually better the earlier in the game it is, as that's when the chance of randomly selecting the same person that scum selects is at its lowest, as compared to later in the game.

I agree with you, because I don't think what drixx said will ever make a declared doc better than a doc scum doesn't know where is going to. I disagree with drixx that what he said can ever be applied to n1.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: nicorobin

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I really dislike the treatment elsa jay has been given. he is one of the most active players in the game and has scumhunt through and through. has been open and clear about his thought processes and role. has never been obtuse, or rude, to anyone in this game. and he is a neutral. he is not even town. and people act around elsa like they get to control his night actions, like he owes town anything. elsa owes nothing to town and we're a stupid collective if we decide to lynch elsa for not "cooperating". I'm in favour of treating neutral claims at gunpoint, but we don't even know what we want elsa to be doing in the first place, he has never disagreed on any use of his NA as of yet and has been completely willing to go with whatever town wants, and still has to be annoyed by cerb asking him to "scumhunt like the rest of us", as if elsa isn't doing that already, and as if cerb has any control over what happens to elsa if he doesn't.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Oh, and this too:

VOTE: Nicorobin

I'd give reasons, but apparently we don't need those anymore.

-Cerb

why are you being like that man?

mala has just declared a secret reason to townread RC slot, and RC has declared mala to be 100% town, so my vote on mala looks like I'm voting a mason softclaim and that'd be poor form, wouldn't it. so, I decided to go elsewhere and mala voted nico, I ISO'd it and it was empty. those are my reasons for voting nico.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

elsa jay is awesome

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I really dislike the treatment elsa jay has been given. he is one of the most active players in the game and has scumhunt through and through. has been open and clear about his thought processes and role. has never been obtuse, or rude, to anyone in this game. and he is a neutral. he is not even town. and people act around elsa like they get to control his night actions, like he owes town anything. elsa owes nothing to town and we're a stupid collective if we decide to lynch elsa for not "cooperating". I'm in favour of treating neutral claims at gunpoint, but we don't even know what we want elsa to be doing in the first place, he has never disagreed on any use of his NA as of yet and has been completely willing to go with whatever town wants, and still has to be annoyed by cerb asking him to "scumhunt like the rest of us", as if elsa isn't doing that already, and as if cerb has any control over what happens to elsa if he doesn't.

-tor

Sometimes it's rough when you roll not town in a mafia game and you have to get bossed around or lynched. That's just the way things are.

Meh. Seems to me like you're trying to pocket elsa (which might be consistent with declaring such a strong townread on him from right out of the gate).

yes, my plan was to always try to pocket this complete stranger since page 1

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Are you saying that like it's supposed to be unlikely or impossible or something?

yes I am. that's not a thought that occurs to any rational player. "I'm gonna try to pocket this person I don't know at all from pg1 forward". this is you doing a posteriori read because elsa happens to be a doc. but I couldn't know this before he claimed, so your read into it doesn't work. I'm increasingly annoyed with people pushing elsa because there's absolutely no reason to. I want elsa on our side, so there you go, maybe I am pocketing him now. but I'm right. cerb asking elsa to "scumhunt" is ridiculous. have you read elsa's ISO? I didn't, but I remember much of his posting and he is here solving.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

bujaber isn't being scummy and I really like his read onto the me/rc thing and his progression on RC mirrors my thoughts about the slot.

-tor

this is all tor, nancy is gonna be here later.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

don't love flicker's last post and I'm curious to read her respond to NSG pushing her

it troubles me that she ignored it.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Tor you're being dumb about RC.

look, I'm not tunneling the slot. I'll roll with yours and NSG read on the replace out anyway. I find half his posting towny, and then it got really bad before we started 1v1'ing. but the way I read the whole thing mirrors bujaber's read. it doesn't mean we're right, but when I see people thinking how I'm thinking, to me it's a good indicator they're town.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

It's even weirder that Cerb asks Elsa to scumhunt and makes threats after telling me to eff off when I asked them to coordinate and do the same. Le sigh.

Chara I need your reads. Please come soon.

do you think cerb is being scummy? or just weird?

I'm not sure now if I believe that cerb believes in his push on elsa, but even that might not be scummy cause he could be just trying to force the neutral's hand to do what "town wants", which is a towny attitude to have and only a handful of scum players would go for that angle as brazenly as cerb has.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I like flicker's post

gives absolutely 0 fucks, towny

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

cerb are you even town rn

oops

yeah I'll go do other stuff and I'm here tomorrow. better let the thread breathe.

I don't know about RR now. it's a collection of

wrong

that cerb shouldn't be thinking in the last few posts.

pedit: then stop bugging elsa lmao. he is being fine. let's worry about other slots.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I am considering it

our differences might be more on a fundamental level

why are you voting nico?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

cerb are you even town rn

oops

yeah I'll go do other stuff and I'm here tomorrow. better let the thread breathe.

I don't know about RR now. it's a collection of

wrong

that cerb shouldn't be thinking in the last few posts.

pedit: then stop bugging elsa lmao. he is being fine. let's worry about other slots.

Hey Tora, Being townie isn’t necessarily what you agree/disagree with, it’s about the thought process. And while I don’t agree with the push on EJ, I think that thinking is more likely to come from town. My take, is that EJ, should not receive any special treatment due to claiming neutral doc but shouldn’t be singled out in lieu of other slots, pretty much doing freaking nothing. IOW, if you’re helping town - I want you to live and if you’re either not or even worse - being some sort of distraction, then I want you dead basically and IMO, EJ is doing enough atm to earn his his life wrt to town. Do you agree or disagree with this?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

cerb are you even town rn

oops

yeah I'll go do other stuff and I'm here tomorrow. better let the thread breathe.

I don't know about RR now. it's a collection of

wrong

that cerb shouldn't be thinking in the last few posts.

pedit: then stop bugging elsa lmao. he is being fine. let's worry about other slots.

Hey Tora, Being townie isn’t necessarily what you agree/disagree with, it’s about the thought process. And while I don’t agree with the push on EJ, I think that thinking is more likely to come from town. My take, is that EJ, should not receive any special treatment due to claiming neutral doc but shouldn’t be singled out in lieu of other slots, pretty much doing freaking nothing. IOW, if you’re helping town - I want you to live and if you’re either not or even worse - being some sort of distraction, then I want you dead basically and IMO, EJ is doing enough atm to earn his his life wrt to town. Do you agree or disagree with this?

I don't disagree with anything you said

you're doing the same thing I didn't like from cerb which is taking this stance of "elsa better be protown

or else

" when elsa is being pro town all game.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

cerb are you even town rn

oops

yeah I'll go do other stuff and I'm here tomorrow. better let the thread breathe.

I don't know about RR now. it's a collection of

wrong

that cerb shouldn't be thinking in the last few posts.

pedit: then stop bugging elsa lmao. he is being fine. let's worry about other slots.

Hey Tora, Being townie isn’t necessarily what you agree/disagree with, it’s about the thought process. And while I don’t agree with the push on EJ, I think that thinking is more likely to come from town. My take, is that EJ, should not receive any special treatment due to claiming neutral doc but shouldn’t be singled out in lieu of other slots, pretty much doing freaking nothing. IOW, if you’re helping town - I want you to live and if you’re either not or even worse - being some sort of distraction, then I want you dead basically and IMO, EJ is doing enough atm to earn his his life wrt to town. Do you agree or disagree with this?

I don't disagree with anything you said

you're doing the same thing I didn't like from cerb which is taking this stance of "elsa better be protown

or else

" when elsa is being pro town all game.

-tor

What? How am I doing any such thing? I very clearly stated that he has done enough to not be pushed atm IOW, I think I’m actually AGREEING with you here and pointing out the flaws in your logic. I am also not necessarily agreeing with Cerb, what I am saying is treat him like any other player and evaluate him based on pro-town behaviour. In order for us to win, we need to evaluate slots based on how useful/useful they’re being to town. So, what I’m saying basically is that EJ has done more that is helpful to town than some unclaimed players in the game, thus far.

So, if you’re seriously disputing this, then you may possibly be allowing your emotions to blind you to what’s ultimately in our best interest.

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

anyway let me explain the things I disagree with cerb, then:

he is saying nothing elsa jay did in this game is worth to town because elsa said he can't see things from a towny perspective, and that means everything elsa did was fake. that's not true. even scum analyzes things from an honest standpoint at times, and we know what's the agenda behind elsa's posting, which is simply to survive. he may and will do things that are important for his wincon over town's wincon, but we know what that wincon is and we can predict when he is gonna act like that. being protective and townreading me, for instance, is something elsa can and will do as a result of wanting to have allies, as he keeps putting. that doesn't mean everything he does is fake and worthless. when elsa says he is not seeing things from a town perspective at times, that's just because he is honest. no one else in his shoes would, either. there's no need to pile on the player for stating the obvious that their wincon matters more to them than town's wincon.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

and yeah I think RR is town a whole lot here but lemme stop monologuing with the hydra partner

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

@Tor thoughts on RR and Thor?

I didn't work on either ISO and didn't re-read anything so these are my impressions from just reading the thread in real time.

the way drixx and cerb are playing remind me a lot of their play as town in heroes wanted, which is the only experience I have with either. they're both analytical, cerb is more inquisite and drixx is more introspective. I remember townreading the slot emotionally as it was getting wagoned, but I don't remember why. they are both more or less exactly what I expect of them, so I have no reason to doubt they're town here. this isn't a null read btw, this is a townread. they're playing a version of their town games and are fine in my book. I also think the hydra is the strongest slot in the game and it should never be touched d1 because scum will want to SPK it.

Thor is curious. I've played with town!thor twice when I was also town, once in that game we met as you remember, and in another game I subbed out d1 when you were scum. a lot of what I see here is how thor phrases/questions people, but there's something he is doing here that's different from his other games, and it's both a difference in his personality and a difference in how he pushes people. I think it's really curious that he asked nancy to sheep him, as I don't expect him to, not when he is scumreading our slot, and not to anyone that just replaced in on d1. I expect town!thor to poke nancy to get a read off of her, question her on things, anything like that. I don't think thor believes asking nancy to sheep him will give him a reasonable read on nancy. and I don't think he is doing so because he strongly believes whoever he is voting is scum (I don't even know who he was voting then, it's how superficial he was about it). I also don't really expect thor to call my play "trash" in this game. I don't think I'm behaving any differently than the other games I had with thor, and even if I was, I expect him to act smarter when trying to parse me out. I don't remember us interacting on many things, if anything at all. I expect him to question me a whole lot here if he thinks I'm scum, and he is not doing that.

+1

Catching up on your posts first, I ISO’d RR earlier and 100% agree with this.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

anyway let me explain the things I disagree with cerb, then:

he is saying nothing elsa jay did in this game is worth to town because elsa said he can't see things from a towny perspective, and that means everything elsa did was fake. that's not true. even scum analyzes things from an honest standpoint at times, and we know what's the agenda behind elsa's posting, which is simply to survive. he may and will do things that are important for his wincon over town's wincon, but we know what that wincon is and we can predict when he is gonna act like that. being protective and townreading me, for instance, is something elsa can and will do as a result of wanting to have allies, as he keeps putting. that doesn't mean everything he does is fake and worthless. when elsa says he is not seeing things from a town perspective at times, that's just because he is honest. no one else in his shoes would, either. there's no need to pile on the player for stating the obvious that their wincon matters more to them than town's wincon.

-tor

I don’t disagree with this. However, I also kind of think it’s irrelevant. It really doesn’t matter to me what perspective EJ is coming from, all I care about is his actions and how they affect town and that was my point.

and yeah I think RR is town a whole lot here but lemme stop monologuing with the hydra partner

-tor

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I like jingle and I especially like jingle's push on thor.

thor's case against porkens seems like stretching things to fit a read instead of thor genuinely reading porkens' behaviour as scummy. porkens' lurking is straight up NAI and he didn't display any confusion about multiball, he just apparently didn't know who was talking about it first. his posting feels natural to me and I agree with jingle that his casual mention of no flavour is a towntell, and if it isn't it's definitely not scummy. his entrance scumreading 3 players and making a team feels like town!porkens and I see nothing otherwise that makes me doubt he is town here.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I still think Flicker is town NSG.

flicker is very towny in recent posts

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: thor

I dig it

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

1. he doesn't feel like he is active lurking at all.
2. you're still using the word "confusion" to give porkens' posting some characteristic that isn't there. not knowing who talked about multiball first isn't being confused by it. it's not like porkens suggested someone else did it first, is it?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

who started talking about multiball?

VOTE: elsa jay

how is that faking confusion about anything? I don't see it.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Why would ducky replace?? The faq.

it seems to be site wide and i would guess it's really not something you should factor into your read on the slot

I am friends with tw, so I agree that his replace out is NAi.

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Did we confirm that slot is definitely porkens

I can 100% confirm this, as this was confirmed in Labrynth.

~Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Hi Chara, it’s been awhile.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

1. he doesn't feel like he is active lurking at all.
2. you're still using the word "confusion" to give porkens' posting some characteristic that isn't there. not knowing who talked about multiball first isn't being confused by it. it's not like porkens suggested someone else did it first, is it?

1. So he doesn't feel like he's showing up and posting nothing? Even though anyone can look at his ISO, see at most 3 scumhunting posts, and blatantly be able to recognize that he never follows up on anything? How would you like to describe his posting if not active lurk? I'kk use other words - but it has to be clear to you he's not actually advancing the game, yeah?

2. What word would you like me to use? Unawareness? Lack of understanding? Proof/faking of not reading and then acting like it is a scumtell which is nonsensical? I feel like these are all valid and hold to my point?

You didn't explain why you made up meta about me yet either.

who started talking about multiball?

VOTE: elsa jay

how is that faking confusion about anything? I don't see it.

-tor

As I said to your other head - change it to whatever you like, it's proof he either does (or is faking) lack or awareness/lack of reading/lack of jbowing what's going on even though he's clearly actively following the game but Flicker was backed into a corner by me about that and then fled and everyone is still wasting time on me and will probably town read Flicker, RR, and everyone else about this because as far as I can tell everyone is now using a different rulebook for what qualifies as being "helpful to town in any way at all" and I never got the memo.



Like, does this post highlight TPFKAP knowing...anything? Scumhunting anything? What the hell about this pleases you at all? Describe the pro-town plan to me and I'll happily go away, but why are you trying to definition debate me and then acting surprised I find your play trash this game?

I can’t speak for Tor but A) you first tell me that you’re scumreading our slot, then demand I “blindly sheep” you on a slot I think could be town. B) I’m not tr Porkens/TPFKAP but as scum, she usually tries to derail in some way, so no blatantly obvious scumtells from her slot yet. You’d be making a mistake, if you think I’m locked in on your wagon. Convince me I’m wrong here. What am I not seeing?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

yo

Who do you think is scum here and why? Your RR vote was fine for RVS, not so much now.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I can also confirm it’s porkens. It stands for The Player Formerly Known As Porkens

Thanks, this is very helpful. I never could remember that in Labrynth.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

My mental notes escape me atm, but I think I had...
Elsa Kay
Nancy Drew Toranaganate
BoogerJabber
...as scum reads.

I'm struggling to keep up with the pace since I'm on business in DC right now (and another week more). Hopefully I'll be dead after Night 1 though, so it wont be much an issue.

Reasons?

BuJabber ought to be especially offended by you calling him “BoogerJabber”.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I think someone asked what info can be gained from lynching Elsa.

People can still have stances on other reads and lynch the claimed scum, plus night brings in a lot of information as well which almost always substantiates previous positions or opens new avenues of discussion.

The game is designed to try and prevent swing, but that doesnt mean it isnt possible, and if town loses too many members before scum loses even one, Elsa automatically becomes a non facto member of the scum team. Lynching her later in the game is still a mislynch in the eyes of the mafia team.

So, we don’t try to find hidden scum on D1 and try to discern possible associatives? In what world does that remotely make sense?

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I think someone asked what info can be gained from lynching Elsa.

People can still have stances on other reads and lynch the claimed scum, plus night brings in a lot of information as well which almost always substantiates previous positions or opens new avenues of discussion.

The game is designed to try and prevent swing, but that doesnt mean it isnt possible, and if town loses too many members before scum loses even one, Elsa automatically becomes a non facto member of the scum team. Lynching her later in the game is still a mislynch in the eyes of the mafia team.

Sure we'd have his reads. But they wouldn't mean anything. It would be the same information wise as knowingly mislynching townie. We wouldn't get any associative reads to work with.

I agree Elsa does not make it to end game, but now is not the time to kill him.

+1

Chick, very likely town here.

Toog, probably unintentional scumsiding town. Lol

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Mod responded to my request for flavor.

I'm a Reaver

. That's a good guy, right?

Also...

Vote: Reasonably Rational

Serious vote as my tryhard alarm is pinging.

Wait, I haven’t fully read the game. Isn’t Reavers supposed to be scum?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Why did you feel the need to reiterate this?

Because apparently people took me seriously when I claimed to be a Reaver.

I've seen the series in full probably a dozen times, and the movie even more times. I thought it would be an apparent attempt at jest.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

randomidget

failed to pick up his prod

Replacement

Replacement Announcement

randomidget

is replaced with

Gamma Emerald

effective immediately.

DIE DIE DIE

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

where are my manners

welcome gamma!

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Tor what happened to your scumread on Mala?

Did you answer this?

Tora said he thinks Mala might be masons with RC/Chara because he thinks they or RC softclaimed it or something.

Hopefully he will elaborate further on this.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Elsa does not share the same wincon, and even though it's a bit drastic of a comparison, you wouldn't leash a serial killer just to get them to maybe shoot some mafia.

This, btw, is provably false wrt me at least. I recently finished a game where town won because a leashed sk shot 3/4 of the scumteam.

If a 3rd party is going to work with town, I'm all for letting them be another town voice for as long as possible. The only caveat is that they have an expiration date. Either way, there's not enough support to get that lynch today, so it might be worth your time to work on your other suspects or convince people on your townreads.

+1

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I think someone asked what info can be gained from lynching Elsa.

People can still have stances on other reads and lynch the claimed scum, plus night brings in a lot of information as well which almost always substantiates previous positions or opens new avenues of discussion.

The game is designed to try and prevent swing, but that doesnt mean it isnt possible, and if town loses too many members before scum loses even one, Elsa automatically becomes a non facto member of the scum team. Lynching her later in the game is still a mislynch in the eyes of the mafia team.

Sure we'd have his reads. But they wouldn't mean anything. It would be the same information wise as knowingly mislynching townie. We wouldn't get any associative reads to work with.

I agree Elsa does not make it to end game, but now is not the time to kill him.

+1

Chick, very likely town here.

Toog, probably unintentional scumsiding town. Lol

Why? Why not just straight up scum? Why go for the complicated answer instead of the simple one?

Oh because of meta. He got mislynched in Heroes for similar anti-town behaviour but sure, he could still possibly be scum here. I think that keeping EJ alive rn is good for town, because she has bp and is unlikely to be NKed, unlike say a town doc, so town has potentially a unique weapon in Elsa, to influence the NK.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Tor what happened to your scumread on Mala?

Did you answer this?

no

both mala and RC are talking about each other as if they know the other is town. I think mala said RC was town for ~reasons the last time she spoke about him, and RC had mala as top town for no reason. so there's a mason softclaim there between the two and it's not something I wanna poke today.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I think I can read RC fairly well.
I can probably read RC better.
I don't think their argument was TvT. I think your slot is scum and Tora's is town.

I dunno, ISOing RC/Tora interactions makes me think it’s just too hostile not to be. Tell me why you disagree?

~Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

And fuck you if you think I'd do this as scum cheeky

Would scum!RC really make this kind of post? I somehow doubt it.

~N

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

@Thor
@Chara
@Tor

Thoughts on Flicker?

probably town, some very genuine sounding posting and nothing to scumread her for

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

elsa jay playing for her wincon is nothing to be read into

this is flipping town almost everytime though

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Starting to think you're scum again my bro.

was that to me?

you're good cheeky

you just need so much more mafia playing

but you're good

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Not sure if Tor or NSG is scummier should Flicker flip town.

I think she is towny :shrug:

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Not sure if Tor or NSG is scummier should Flicker flip town.

I think she is towny :shrug:

I felt that too, but are you certain? Could you please relook?

sure np

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I read 1 post by flicker and it's towny af

why is this the wagon

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Which post? The first one?

the last one actually

the one where she votes chara

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I see flicker talking about herself a lot and reacting to things naturally which I assume is someone's town game. she could be scum and just playing really well, but I don't see it and I don't think nsg's case on her was compelling.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Flicker is obviously wrong about me but not sure if that's AI. However her early reads are kinda weird to me. But she used the cop out of saying it's anywhere from 1-100% strength which makes it nice and non-commital. Like what are you townreading Chick for already? Tw? Toogle?

- I liked Chick's question for me and her response, as well as her read on the RR wagon.
- TW's in my null/conflicted pile (I want him to be town, I like his defense of me/push on NSG, but could it be pocketing?).
- Toogle I already talked about, in 95 and 179, and nothing after that has made me question that read.

Pedit:

- NSG's scumread on me in 247 felt like self-conscious/overly analyzing town, rather than scum. The character of it felt pretty different from everyone else's reads at the time, when I feel like scum would be more likely to go with the casual flow that was already happening. I could see this as possibly scummy if she felt backed into a corner, but she volunteered the info in response to a relatively neutral comment, which seems way too awkward to be scum, even if she's bad at/doesn't like playing as scum.

What do you think about TPFKAP's presence?

TPFKAP's (lack of presence) wasn't great, either, but I'll give her a pass for now and assume she's being genuine in having shown up late.

By contrast, Nico's posting bothers me because she was clearly present at the start of the game, had at least a little sense of what was going on, and then disappeared. Honestly, I half-hoped adding my vote to the pile would Beetlejuice her and reveal that she's been lurking and deliberately holding back (in a way that would definitely be scummy). I guess it's possible she's busy or overwhelmed with the volume of the game so far, but right now her ISO just seems really off. I'd also support a policy lynch for lurking, no matter what reasons she may have.

Did you catch up on the whole thread?

Was this directed at me? If so, yes - I only post when I'm completely caught up.

I'm okay with hearing your self meta(not even utilized as a defense mechanism, but in general), because I don't know you and how you perceive your town/scum behavior is helpful to me in setting expectations.

-Cerb

I'll quote from my most recent Newbie game, where the IC asked a question that dovetails with this:

3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why?

I've only rolled scum once (in Micro 805.1), but I wouldn't say I really got the opportunity to

play

as scum, so I don't know which I prefer. Playing as town for me is as exciting as it is stressful, but the excitement tends to peak early (like, day 1) and the stress tends to just build after that. Sometimes, that stress sort of paralyzes me and blocks me from posting (I'm very conflict-averse, which is a trait I'm hoping Mafia can help me overcome), and theoretically playing as scum would be easier in that respect.

To expand on that, I've been thinking about why I seem to be so consistently scum read, and I think it's because my neuroticism bleeds through everything I post, and people pick up on that as "overly careful = scummy." I don't know if I'd be even more careful/neurotic as scum, or if I'd swing toward the opposite direction and be more relaxed, but hopefully eventually I'll find out. I know in the game I played off-site where I was recruited as scum, I basically dumped all my anxiety in the scum PT, which definitely changed my attitude in-thread (I got quieter and quieter as that game went on, too, IIRC).

Another thing that I think is making my meta different this game, is that playing off-site, where people were more friendly with each other, made me sort of look at the game and playerlist differently, from a collection of potential suspects (which I think is why I came in hotter my previous games, and what I think NSG has seen I'm lacking and dubbed a "minor scumtell") to a group of potential allies. This is also the first game where I'm really familiar with anyone, much less multiple people, which has also shifted my approach this game. And modding has shifted my perspective, too.

Considering that TPFKAP *literally Beetlejuiced* and also looks like an actual active lurk why are you not voting him and instead voting a slot you appear to agree looks like a likely flake out?

1) Where did TFPKAP Beetlejuice into the thread? I haven't interpreted any of her appearances like that.
2) I also wouldn't characterize her as an active lurker, at least not yet. Even if it was a case of active lurker vs non-active lurker, there's still slightly more in TFPKAP's ISO I like (post 738 and a general gut feeling).
3) I don't agree Nico's a likely flake out, just that it's a possibility.

While I definitely think Flicker’s vote on Chara and especially the reasoning for it is bad, I have to agree with my partner. I honestly think this slot’s flipping town.

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

If flicker is town, then who is scum on this wagon?

I don’t know. My strongest scumreads are offwagon. *shrug*

~N

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

good to know you expect me to assertively push people all the time when I'm being diplomatic about my scumreads because

"RC isn't a big enough asshole to do x as scum"

. I would let you mislynch flicker if I was scum, cheeky teeky.

at any rate I 100% believe flicker's claim too.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: nicorobin

porkens is still on his town meta even if he is not playing

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

she is of course telling the truth about her role ability

this won't prove her alignment either way

and no, I'd rather not waste everyone's time on this.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

1 day and 20 pages?

Yeah - I'm skipping all of that.
Off of Page 1 I liked Elsa and Toranaga.

Is anyone in quickMjolnir range yet?

That and your second post made me slightly cautious. Just saying.

So your saying Tora is scum defending town here? Nani?!

Yeah, that's absolutely a claim that I will hammer randomly

Yes, I am saying exactly that - why is it confusing to you as an idea?

Flicker's claim is early enough to be 'meh' but since it got me a TPFKAP vote as well I'll admit to just deciding 'town enough' and riding this rampage train a bit further.
I'd also do Toranaga. The absolute avoidance of me is triggering me to high heaven, and I'm going to keep mentioning it until other people notice and wagon him up.

we talked, your opinions are shit, IDK how to parse you out and you're confusing me with my hydra partner and not making sense

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke

pedit: do you think she is lying about her ability ever? why would she even do that? the hammer won't "confirm" her as town, elsa.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

let's make sure we all understand flicker's ability is straight up NAI and she would never lie about not being able to self hammer cause she'd be lynched for it with 0 compensation for claiming this. I'm townreading her posting around the claim cause it feels pure.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

she won't be confirmed town, elsa. this ability is NAI, she can be anything for it.

I'm not voting people I'm townreading to test things that don't matter.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

you're being a lot more forceful and a very shit which is different than the towngames you played with me. IDK if that makes you scum and I said a couple of times I'm not in position to parse you out because my experience with you is limited. this is the first time you make me cringe in a game though, and you're doing it a lot.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke

Fascinating.
Why?

just how is it "meh"?

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

elsa, remember how annoyed you were at people debating you over and over and going nowhere? this flicker discussion is the same thing. you're not right and I'm not voting flicker, sorry dear.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

you're being a lot more forceful and a very Smurf which is different than the towngames you played with me. IDK if that makes you scum and I said a couple of times I'm not in position to parse you out because my experience with you is limited. this is the first time you make me cringe in a game though, and you're doing it a lot.

-tor

I'm being more forceful than my town play?
How do you define forceful?

"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke

Fascinating.
Why?

just how is it "meh"?

-tor

Because it robbed town of getting complete wagon info and hammer intent to mine.
How is my opinion "puke"?
You ducked that question really hard.

you don't push any of these things as hard when town from what I remember of your d1s. your strong statements on players aren't good IMO. saying porkens is "active lurking" instead of just not being around is made up. it's changing what "active lurking" means. I'm the towniest slot in the game and you're pushing me cause, afaict, I'm ignoring you and I'm right about stuff, which is nitpicky and playing to cheeky's paranoia if nothing else.

"it robbed town of getting complete wagon info" so what you're calling "meh" isn't shading flicker's action. I can see how it did rob town of getting wagon info. I thought you were shading flicker.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

for a fun read, check me getting mislynched d1 of a game for absolutely no reason

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=77158

-tor

pedit: puke

VOTE: chara

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

you don't push any of these things as hard when town from what I remember of your d1s.

You either remember wrong or are using really dated references.

saying porkens is "active lurking" instead of just not being around is made up. it's changing what "active lurking" means. I'm the towniest slot in the game and you're pushing me cause, afaict, I'm ignoring you and I'm right about stuff, which is nitpicky and playing to cheeky's paranoia if nothing else.

1. It's not changing the definition, and he is doing it.
2. I disagree that you're the towniest slot, and even if everyone else agrees with you it is still important I point out issues with that read if I have them.

"it robbed town of getting complete wagon info" so what you're calling "meh" isn't shading flicker's action. I can see how it did rob town of getting wagon info. I thought you were shading flicker.

-tor

So it was "puke" because you assumed I was attacking someone I'd already indicated I didn't want to lynch.
Wouldn't that just be scummy?

@RR -

puke is scummy

you are changing the definition. active lurking means porkens clicks the thread, reads, and doesn't post. there's nothing in his posting that points to it, other than you trying to interpret that elsa vote as something that's actually not there.

I'm using that game with mulch, which is an year ago so it is dated, but also some stupid game I had to replace out d1 cause everyone was aids.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

My flavor's redacted, of course. But seriously, who else could I be? Maybe I'm too confident in who I am, but nobody's lining up to prove me wrong yet, either.

Pedit: Yes Chara, it looks scummy, I know, whatever.

it doesn't look scummy and I don't like her soft pushing you with it

it is a very bad idea though

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Not interested in a Flicker lynch anymore.

I don't think it's vital to test it, because it doesn't give us anything alignment wise, but I won't unvote before I know who I want to vote next, just in case ya'll reach a consensus on this.

I wouldn't mind a Porkens lynch.

I'm off for now. I'll be around later though.

it's not only not vital to test it, but once you get there that it gives us nothing alignment wise, it's completely unnecessary to do so. only elsa wants it and your opinion seems like mirroring everyone that thinks we don't need to bother.

you don't know who to vote instead but you'd lynch porkens, so maybe switch to porkens?

-tor

pedit: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

1. I'm not saying I can sort you. I'm using the games I played with you to say this is different cause your posting here sucks.
2. porkens isn't appearing active at all. and yes I checked his ISO.
3. viewtopic.php?t=73273&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go read your own d1 here.

pedit: IDK you're making a joke. it looks like you're shading flicker. @chara

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

you are changing the definition. active lurking means porkens clicks the thread, reads, and doesn't post. there's nothing in his posting that points to it, other than you trying to interpret that elsa vote as something that's actually not there.

that's actually lurking.
active lurking involves posting.

well he isn't posting. he is not around at all.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

to make it clear, porkens isn't posting and when he does, it doesn't look like he was lurking

it's not like people vote him and he beetlejuices onto the thread or anything.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Wrong account Tora.

And are you scum reading me now because I disagreed with you? Sad face.

I don't mean your placement in it, just the entire reads list would look better upside down

although you're confirmed not town so being on the top of the reads list is accidentally a good tell on how bad it (probably) is

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Toogeloo
Chara
Chickadee
Skygazer

none of these people are towny

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

cheeky is ~always town. I don't think RR is scum. I like bujaber a lot this game. I had reasons to townread NSG earlier and I'm not throwing them away just because she isn't obsessively solving, although it is getting thinner as she approaches her lurk-ish scum meta.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Jingle you don't expect me to respond to your posts right? Coz I won't.

You do you. If I need clarification/have a pointed question for you that must have a response I'll definitely do an @CT tho.

@Tora: Sell me literally any of those stances.

ok

cheeky is emotionally impure scum because she didn't completely turn into a sociopath like the rest of us. so when she is pure sounding, even if you think her stances are not good, she is town.

I'm waiting for chara to get towny and haven't seen it yet. RC's posting was up and down and there's a whole lot I don't like before we started fighting. I explained those at the time and they're in my ISO so I'm not repeating myself too much, but he allowed himself to make associative reads that either went unexplained or made no sense to me, and a lot of his scumreads were bad pushes from my point of view. he tunneled elsa all game and when elsa finally claimed 3p, he switches to me because I was defending elsa and so "death to greg haggar" or whatever charming thing he says. in what circumstance would me townreading a lone 3p scummy? I'm not gonna bother talking about those posts anymore but I found them very scummy.

chara has a strong scumgame anyway. until it becomes something blatant I'm not gonna townread this slot.

I know toogeloo from a game he replaced in and played wonderfully towny the whole time he was there. his posting here is bad. lacks content and passion. this is a slot that's active lurking btw, for those of you who like reading into shit like this.

I could go on but like, who'd read anyway?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I know a few bedtime stories too

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

beautiful post jingle, and still I disagree with all of it.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

what sounds pure in cheeky? to me, her entire game so far. I can point to specific places but you can see e.g. her reactions as me and RC were pushing each other, how her read progressed on me, on RC, thor, even nsg now. it's all towny with no exception but sure, you win the argument on whether cheeky should be townread while being wrong that she is scum cause she is not scum.

1575 from chara is good, I agree. I'll skip the RC part cause zzzz.

I don't think your reads list is fabricated, I think it just sucks cause it's wrong. you're convincing and loud and smart, but you're very likely wrong on your townreads and scumreads this game.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

toogeloo's posting is fine. I like the reaver joke and the PM talk at the beginning. the struggle to keep up seems real too.

so, alright, maybe toogeloo is town.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I haven't read this game in ages

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Yeah I'm vibing pretty hard with Jingle's reads. Him scum reading me is usually indicative of town for players who aren't familiar with me.

this doesnt ring pure to you jingle?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: malakittens

ok

pedit: that's still me elsa

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I haven't read this game in ages

The mythical Nancy reammerges! I think...

Nancy, save your other Hydra. He's picking fights he might not win.

you crack me up elsa

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

pls do a captain's log

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I know toogeloo from a game he replaced in and played wonderfully towny the whole time he was there. his posting here is bad. lacks content and passion. this is a slot that's active lurking btw, for those of you who like reading into shit like this.

Are you referring to Heroes Wanted, where I replaced in Day 3, literally read 1 player's ISO, and then told everyone I needed to be lynched Day 4 because I town read scum?

well I was defending you there, you didn't need to roll over like you did but your posting was towny

I read your ISO and changed my mind and think you're town now. it's happening to me a lot nowadays that I simply forget why I was townreading certain slots. I've agreed your early posting was towny, or at least I remember I was townreading it in my head, but then forgot it happened cause it's been days and you're never around. I'm burnt out but I'm trying.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Thor wants to hammer.

When did I say that?

If flicker is town, then who is scum on this wagon?

I don’t know. My strongest scumreads are offwagon. *shrug*

~N

It's like there was the possibility of insight, and then it was stamped upon brutally.
Tor continues to be trash and continues to avoid me.
Him white knighting this wagon makes me think he's statistically more likely to be right about the potential alignment flip. This is based on me thinking he's primary groupscum, natch.

Flicker’s posts show clear town thought process to me. This sort of thing is not easily fakable.

~Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I keep misreading Thor's aggressive tone as scummy I think. Rereading his ISO, his aggression seems directed towards genuine sorting, and it's done in such a way that it's likely to ruffle too many feathers if he were scum.

I did agree with Jingle on the point that Thor does like his vanity wagons as scum, however ime he tends to tunnel hard when doing so. Here he's provided pretty fluid reads (e.g. his progression on Tor going from liking to "trash"), along with a number of scum/town reads, which makes me feel this style is quite different from what I remember of his scum game.

I'm really vibing with his read on Toranaga. I know Chara is pretty iffy about the NDS slot too so I wouldn't be sad if someone shot it :/ ok maybe a little sad but that's what you get for being scum.

I’s be sad too, since we’re not.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I'm a Town Priest (probably Shepard Book). At least if I die first, it sort of fits narratively, plus my role's "power" is slightly burdensome for town. I was trying to breadcrumb with my emoji choice, but I guess nerd to books to Book isn't that straight-forward.

If you'd like, I can prove my role by trying (and failing) to hammer myself? Normally I wouldn't even gesture toward a self-voting because it's so anti-town, but it genuinely won't do a thing in this case. I checked with the mod, there's no repercussions for trying, either.

I knew my read on you was correct.

\o/

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

As far as my vote on Chara, it was getting a little boring trying to pressure someone who seems immune to it, and that series of posts really did ping me as off. Was it a reach to scumread Chara for it? Maybe.

I definitely still think either Nico or TPFKAP would be a decent lynch today. I also wasn't defending TPFKAP, FTR, I was just objecting to Thor trying to steer me away from voting Nico using what I saw as an unfair characterization of TPFKAP's actions, that's all.

UNVOTE: until I check the votes to see which of Nico/TPFKAP is ahead.

I don’t know how to read Nico here but she placed an RSV vote on RR based on being salty about a past game. She has neither unvoted that slot nor offered a current game-related reason for why she has not unvoted it yet.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

Seriously, who makes up priest? I hadn’t even heard of that role before her claim?

Not opposed but doubt she’s lying about that.

~N

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

she is of course telling the truth about her role ability

this won't prove her alignment either way

and no, I'd rather not waste everyone's time on this.

-tor

Scummy in the sense that your not letting a townie confirm herself, Tora.

Thor, help Flicker prove her claim. Vote to let her try to self-Hammer.

The link she posted said that either or vote wouldn’t count or she could get modkilled - I have no idea why but I’d absolutely insist on us getting mod confirmation of that - that she is at 0 risk for being modkilled.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

we talked, your opinions are Smurf, IDK how to parse you out and you're confusing me with my hydra partner and not making sense

So now you claim you don't know how to read me when before you were claiming my comments proved I was scum?
Magical.
And I'm sorry for "confusing" you with your hydra partner who made up meta on me and you apparently are down with her ducking explaining that while letting her advance that little gem into the discussion
Also, we didn't talk. i talked, you loudly proclaimed me as scum and then started running silent. Even your answer here shows an awareness that you're lying because now you're coming up with this "IDK how to parse Thor" spiel to justify how you weren't interacting with me. Don't spit on my head and tell me it's raining.

Thor, help Flicker prove her claim. Vote to let her try to self-Hammer.

Let's say we 100% prove Flicker is a Priest?
What does that get us exactly alignment wise?
PEDIT - apparently your goal is to create an IC. Having lack of ability to hammer oneself doesn't make one an IC - but if you feel this way feel free to protect Flicker. I decided not to vote him prior to the claim, and I don't vote town reads because that's not how the game is played.

"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke

Fascinating.
Why?

Why do you continue to perpetuate this nonsence - that I made up some meta nonsense on you or whatever? How is that even possible? I know for a fact that we’ve. ever even played together before - unless you’re some alt that I’m not recognizing for some reason?

~N

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

you're being a lot more forceful and a very Smurf which is different than the towngames you played with me. IDK if that makes you scum and I said a couple of times I'm not in position to parse you out because my experience with you is limited. this is the first time you make me cringe in a game though, and you're doing it a lot.

-tor

I'm being more forceful than my town play?
How do you define forceful?

"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke

Fascinating.
Why?

just how is it "meh"?

-tor

Because it robbed town of getting complete wagon info and hammer intent to mine.
How is my opinion "puke"?
You ducked that question really hard.

Thor, unfortunately every wagon this game while you're alive is going to be robbed of that info, because you entered the game seemingly eager to quickhammer someone. I will *never* put someone at L-1 without being okay with them getting lynched without even getting to claim because of that. There will always be similar concern that we not only have to worry about scum lolhammering and trying to get away with it, but also someone of unknown alignnment who has publicly expressed an interest in doing that.

-Cerb

I’d seriously nominate you for admin on MU. I recrently got mislynched on there for losing a tied 3 vote rand, where a player put on me about less than a minute before EOD.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Not interested in a Flicker lynch anymore.

I don't think it's vital to test it, because it doesn't give us anything alignment wise, but I won't unvote before I know who I want to vote next, just in case ya'll reach a consensus on this.

I wouldn't mind a Porkens lynch.

I'm off for now. I'll be around later though.

it's not only not vital to test it, but once you get there that it gives us nothing alignment wise, it's completely unnecessary to do so. only elsa wants it and your opinion seems like mirroring everyone that thinks we don't need to bother.

you don't know who to vote instead but you'd lynch porkens, so maybe switch to porkens?

-tor

pedit: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

1. I'm not saying I can sort you. I'm using the games I played with you to say this is different cause your posting here sucks.
2. porkens isn't appearing active at all. and yes I checked his ISO.
3. viewtopic.php?t=73273&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go read your own d1 here.

pedit: IDK you're making a joke. it looks like you're shading flicker. @chara

I hate to contradict my hydra partner on this but I disagree.

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Chara and flicker scum team and their Gambit failed?

What? Nah, I think they’re both town.

~Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Evening.

Are you ever planning to give an in-game reason for you not yet unchanged RR RVS vote?

~N

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Wrong account Tora.

And are you scum reading me now because I disagreed with you? Sad face.

I don't mean your placement in it, just the entire reads list would look better upside down

although you're confirmed not town so being on the top of the reads list is accidentally a good tell on how bad it (probably) is

I agree with the top 5 and Flicker anyway.

How we fall below Pork and Nico is very amusing.

~N

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Toogeloo
Chara
Chickadee
Skygazer

none of these people are towny

~ Nancy

Sky and especially Chick are townie. Probably Chara too. I thought we were in sync here. :/

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I haven't read this game in ages

The mythical Nancy reammerges! I think...

Nancy, save your other Hydra. He's picking fights he might not win.

EJ, that’s Tora. He keeps forgetting to sign his damn posts. :/

I’m not sure what you mean here?

I obviously don’t agree with Jingle list either but Chick is blatantly obvtown, so no clue what Tora is thinking. \_0_/

~Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: malakittens

ok

pedit: that's still me elsa

Tora, talk to me. Kthanx.

~N

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I miss RC :/
I mean I love Chara too but both would've been nice.

Sad to say, I'd probably not be here either. I don't play nicely with RC, so I find it's best I avoid games he's in. I was following along with the intention of offering to replace in when/if he was nightkilled.

Poor RC.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Sorry, correction:

votecount

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

BuJaber (4):	McMenno (881),	Jingle (1594),	Toogeloo (1598),	Chickadee (1607),
Flicker (3):	northsidegal (153),	Reasonably Rational (1459),	BuJaber (1489),
TPFKAP (3):	Thor665 (1275),	Flicker (1502),	Gamma Emerald (1595),
NicoRobin (2):	Malakittens (1191),	TPFKAP (1274),
Reasonably Rational (1):	NicoRobin (473),
northsidegal (1):	CheekyTeeky (1631),
Malakittens (1):	Nancy Drew Shogunate (1651),
Not voting (2):	Chara (1616),	Elsa Jay (1623),

(expired on 2018-10-16 02:00:00) remain.

Tora, why are we voting Mala over Nico?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Which leads me to expand on why Tor townreading you (Elsa) early was scummy.

From a scum POV as far as he's concerned you're not on his team so the first assumption is that you're town. I already laid out my reasons early game about why it was difficult to see you as towny. In Be Yourself Mafia I was scum and NSG was 3p so although people who read her consistently well were scumreading her, I was biased to see her as townie because I knew she wasn't scum. I feel like that's pretty much exactly what happened to produce Tor's early townread on you.

Cheeky, when did our slot change from obvtown to nullsscum/scumlean for you?

You are now sr us for pretty much the same reasons that you tr us earlier.

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

we're voting mala over nico because nico has done nothing while mala's posting has been scummy

since chara is now scumreading/suspecting mala, I'm throwing out the idea they could be masons or whatever I was thinking

@nancy

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Which leads me to expand on why Tor townreading you (Elsa) early was scummy.

From a scum POV as far as he's concerned you're not on his team so the first assumption is that you're town. I already laid out my reasons early game about why it was difficult to see you as towny. In Be Yourself Mafia I was scum and NSG was 3p so although people who read her consistently well were scumreading her, I was biased to see her as townie because I knew she wasn't scum. I feel like that's pretty much exactly what happened to produce Tor's early townread on you.

which leads to me reading the game differently from you and everyone else and finding towny things on posting that I'm the only one that can see it

it's not cause you TMI read people as town when you're scum that, whenever people townread anyone and you can't figure out why, they're scum.

and yeah, I'd scumread that post of yours if I didn't know you better.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

"tor is scum because I was once scum and townread a 3p"

:thonking:

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

3p's posts aren't naturally scummy. they're clueless like town is clueless. NSG was being townread as 3p cause it's easy to appear towny as 3p. you don't have the weight of knowing pack of scum and agenda behind your interactions with scum. you can't really catch 3p over stuff like that. you catch 3p on thinner reads on them not caring who gets lynched etc. none of the shit anyone said was scummy of elsa was actually scummy of elsa apart from the 3p slips which IIRC I was (also) the only one reading it correctly. so bless me and sucks to be not me.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: malakittens

ok

pedit: that's still me elsa

Tora, talk to me. Kthanx.

~N

I should hire you as a personal ombudsman

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

well I'm out all day so here is another love song

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Nancy, Tor, do you two have a hydra PT? i'd rather you two played like one slot instead of like masons without a PT.

also, i'd like to hear more about my good scumgame. this has nothing to do with my ego, probably.

we are constantly talking about the game, we're just having time differences so when she is reading the thread I'm often not around and vice versa

your good scum game being the one you fooled me with, of course. you don't remember that?

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I'm not using it for anything other than I'm not necessarily going to townread you for much of what you did so far

although I like this approach to me and I like that post jingle mentioned as both towny

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

3p slips which IIRC I was (also) the only one reading it correctly. so bless me and sucks to be not me.

You said she was the towniest player here. Seeing her as town is not the same as seeing her as 3p, in fact seeing her as scum is probably closer to a 3p role as they do not share the same wincon as town. If you're talking about noticing her crumbing, you weren't the only one to notice.

lone 3p behaves like town. that's why everyone was townreading NSG. even a lone wolf sounds towny. if you're scumreading lone 3p, unless they're slipping, you're reading into things that aren't different to how people behave as town pr. these things depend a little on community and setting etc but you can't really catch 3p by anything that makes people objectively scummy in a game, at least until scum is reduced to the point of 3p hunting being relevant, and the 3p can no longer genuinely hunt.

I was the only one saying she was crumbling 3p or the first to suggest it. other people were scumreading elsa for talking about multiball, which I didn't think was AI at the time because of his explanation, but later when he used the word "Neutral" and win with majority etc it became a real softclaim.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

"tor is scum because I was once scum and townread a 3p"

:thonking:

-tor

Yeah ok reduce my reasoning down to this.

Which leads me to expand on why Tor townreading you (Elsa) early was scummy.

From a scum POV as far as he's concerned you're not on his team so the first assumption is that you're town. I already laid out my reasons early game about why it was difficult to see you as towny. In Be Yourself Mafia I was scum and NSG was 3p so although people who read her consistently well were scumreading her, I was biased to see her as townie because I knew she wasn't scum. I feel like that's pretty much exactly what happened to produce Tor's early townread on you.

am I wrong though? I read it 2 other times now and it's exactly what you're saying.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

oh so people were NOT townreading nsg as 3p in a game. alright. my experience with lone 3p is that they're mostly unparseable from town until late in the game, but I guess NSG is not like that.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Cheeky, when did our slot change from obvtown to nullsscum/scumlean for you?

You are now sr us for pretty much the same reasons that you tr us earlier.

~ Nancy

What reasons do you think I'm scumreading/townreading you for?

After Tora changed to our hydra, you were hardtown reading us, so I’m a little bit confused how you’re viewing Tora’s initial EJ defense as suddenly scummy or at least that’s how it read to me?

My interpretation is that he stuck up for EJ. because he felt that he was being unfairly pushed and I can 100% vouch that Tora genuinely did feel that way and complained about that to in our private chat. He is a very emotional player, who frequently goes with his gut. He was also not happy with what in his opinion, looked like a ganging up on Flicker wagon. That’s why I’ve been trying to get him to view the game mote logically. As you know, we both mindmelded on EJ, Thor and Flicker but not necessarily for the same reasons. I am an extremely logical player and I care far more about what makes sense and whzt does and doesn’t add up. Not that I don’t also have strong emotional reactions - I do but they don’t influence my reads as much.

~Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

After Tora changed to our hydra, you were hardtown reading us, so I’m a little bit confused how you’re viewing Tora’s initial EJ defense as suddenly scummy or at least that’s how it read to me?

I keep flip flopping on the slot. I explained why I thought Tor was scummy early along the lines of "noway anyone townreads Elsa, it's weird that your talking to RC and I like you know we're both town" early game - I just elaborated on that early suspicion with the help of meta when looking at Be Yourself Mafia. I, like Chara, found his posting got better and when he was bragging about reading Elsa correctly after he claimed, I thought this seems outside of Tor's scumrange. Then after RC left he started lurking again which is very much his scum meta, he finds it hard to be motivated as scum and has to be pulled into playing. So although there are aspects of good posting and stances that I thought come outside of his scumrange, overall the town effort and love for solving are missing which outweigh my hesitation to scumread you. That's why I said I wouldn't mind if someone vigged you because I can't sort you which is very frustrating as working with Tor has been very effective for winning in the past.

Okay, fair enough but anyone familiar with MY meta, will tell you I’ll eventually become obvtown, if I haven’t already. Tora has also been going through some rl stuff.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I got distracted by PORKENS and Thor just now. Let me reread that...

Yeah, all excellent points for BuJabers demise. I'll vote later as like the hammer or something if it gets to that. But can you get everyone to click that spoiler tag and actually read it? Convincing all these personalities to agree with each other when most of them want each other dead will be hard.

SCUM SCUM SCUM

Scum is the combined anti town element.
Mafia is a team.

That's one way to say it, but I meant the team's actual name in the flavor. And aren't Scum/Mafia/Werewolf usually used interchangeably when they apply?

Does anyone know the name of the flavor of 'Mafia' we're dealing with?

SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM

WHY? WHY? WHY?
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

You haven't yet Nancy. Hopefully you will.

Usually happens later in the game.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I got distracted by PORKENS and Thor just now. Let me reread that...

Yeah, all excellent points for BuJabers demise. I'll vote later as like the hammer or something if it gets to that. But can you get everyone to click that spoiler tag and actually read it? Convincing all these personalities to agree with each other when most of them want each other dead will be hard.

SCUM SCUM SCUM

Scum is the combined anti town element.
Mafia is a team.

That's one way to say it, but I meant the team's actual name in the flavor. And aren't Scum/Mafia/Werewolf usually used interchangeably when they apply?

Does anyone know the name of the flavor of 'Mafia' we're dealing with?

SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM

WHY? WHY? WHY?
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFpx0vxkn8s

Okay, I approve of your political views and . . . ?



He already claimed neutral doc. Are you accusing him of lying about that?

~Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Given the two wagon options i would always vote tpfkap over bujaber here, given a slight townread on bujaber and a slight scumread on tpfkap (i think even if she was still messing around a lot she would still make some attempt at being useful or gamesolving if town here)

on a separate note, having reviewed flicker's iso since my last real time to sit down and read the thread i'm still unconvinced that she's town and her role does nothing to change my opinion on that front. apart from that i'm somewhat lost when it comes to scumreads. looking through my notes and my existing townreads, although i don't have it all organized preliminarily if i were to assume i was right on all of them i would end up with mostly lurkers and oft-mislynched players in my PoE. that's not necessarily impossible, although it might be cause for alarm.

I think i was townreading skygazer before and i think that was a mistake. That's not any sort of comment on McMenno's play, just some self-reflection which should hopefully be useful to look back on.

oh

i think nancy drew / tor are probably scum.

that's a bridge that i'll cross when i get there, i guess (which is to say, probably not today).

anyways
VOTE: tpfkap

oops, meant to do this in one of my earlier posts. just bookmarking this quote, quite mysteriously.

Spoiler:

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

Seriously, who makes up priest? I hadn’t even heard of that role before her claim?

Not opposed but doubt she’s lying about that.

~N

I dislike your reads on both Skygazer but especially Flicker and it seems your sr us for our hard Flicker defense. I’m currently nullreading TPKAF but I think I need to sort you before I reconsider my vote. I know I don’t want to vote Bujabber today.

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Since TPFKAP is getting close to L-1, and I can't prove my role if I'm on the wagon before the hammer, I'll unvote for now.

UNVOTE:

I'm willing to switch votes with someone else to get the lynch through after that, though, so consider TPFKAP to functionally still be at L-2.

NSG , why are you still scumreading this slot?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

When the RR votes were piling on I was flip flopping on RR, townreading him for reasons, scumreading him for others, trying to sort him through other ways like watching their interactions with others and engaging him myself. I was considering lynching them for the flip and to have a wagon we can lynch one of in d2 as votes piling on that quickly indicated scum on the wagon. Whether it was for bussing or to lynch a townie. But I wasn't sure if I really scumread them.

Except he wasn't. He was scumreading RR. Or rather, he expressed no townread or reasoning for a townread of RR prior to 605, where he has a read full of Nothing. 488 is when he expresses tacit approval of the wagon while not voting it.

1. Okay that point is clearer now. The difference being I was strongly suspecting the fight was TvS even before they started fighting. So the fight inflating the thread would by definition be caused by scum. Which is my original point about the inflation. Inflation doesn't happen because scum post nonsense by themselves. Inflation happens because scum continue or start converations about things that are not game-related.

Things like whether to policy lynch or how Tora vs RC you're an asshole rabble rabble rabble. Which, again, Buj was more than happy to let continue.

I didn't pick the names randomly.. I picked the names based on the fact that I find it extremely unlikely that 4 townies had the same read on a player being wagoned, then had the same change of heart, then had the same read on another player being wagoned, then had the same change of heart.

It is unlikely that 4 townies read RR as scummy and backed down and then later read Flicker as scummy and then backed down. Coincidentally, Buj thought RR's behavior was scummy, but decided he was town. And also Buj thought Flicker's behavior was scummy, but decided she was town.

And I'm curious.. if I had voted both of them.. do you honestly expect me to put myself in my own scum pool?

Nope no problems here. "Just because I match the profile of my scumpool, doesn't mean I should be in my scum pool." Is totally the issue. It's not "I match the profile of my scumpool, and thus there's something seriously wrong with my train of thought." You know, the town reaction to have to the realization that your scumpool is literally players behaving very similarly to yourself. The reaction Buj totally didn't have.

Hmmm . . . I liked his “intersect” post though. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Votes on RR right now page 20:

Toogeloo, Tora, Cheeky, tw, Nico, Elsa -- L-3
RC voted and unvoted.

Pedit : add Thor to that

Set of people who joined RR wagon: {Toog, Tora, Cheeky, TW, Nico, Elsa, RC, Thor}

Set of people who joined flicker wagon: {nsg, Chick, RR, cheeky, Chara, Elsa, me, Toog}

Intersect: {Toog, Cheeky, RC/Chara, Elsa}

Definitely scum among the intersect.
Doesn't mean everyone else on the wagons is town but there's scum here for sure.
Besides this list will be helpful again with RR/Flicker flips.


And there's still the issue of TFP and Nico not really doing anything.

Toog answer this simple question: do you think Elsa will endgame as scum?

For those paying attention Toog has had one really solid stance: that we need to lynch Elsa. EVERY SINGLE OTHER VOTE of his was on the popular wagon of the time. We talked a lot about the definitions of lurking when it comes to TFP and Nico but nobody seems to put Toog in that list. Has anyone actually read his ISO? You can do it while sipping your morning cup of coffee.. it's that short.

If you guys still refuse to see how RC/Chara slot is questionable at best, let's lynch Toog instead.


Consider my vote on both

VOTE: Chara

Also I'm going to forego my ego this time and say I probably can't read gamma very well.. or more accurately, I need a LOT of posts from gamma to be able to sort him, so it might come too late in the game.
So for the time being can I get a list of people who have experienced BOTH his town game and scum game?

Spoiler: I remembered to spoiler something for once

Snipped for readability.

The problem with the bolded isn't that you took either stance, but that you took both. Simultaneously. RC and Tora are fighting over nothing, so they are inflating the thread, but ALSO you are happy with letting them fight.

The underlined: No it isn't. It's easier to sort some people when they get to a certain level of angry. In this case, the argument had devolved to "You always scumread me and are an asshole." vs "You won't stop replacing into my games and are an asshole." Both players were arguing from a position of "I don't care about his alignment, lynch him". The only outcomes there are being able to read the fight as not SvS (Already obvious at that point) and the fight making so much noise the thread got choked with it causing apathy. People are easier to read when they're off balance, not when they're raging at each other to the point where the argument isn't about the game. Then it's just noise that people have to wade through to find tiny grains of real content.

Boiling down the rest of my case to the italicized is a major misrep as well. For example "Passively supporting a lynch while simultaneously distancing yourself from it" is by no means a "playstyle difference". It's a scum motivated tool for a lack of accountability. Why?

Well lets look at your current line of argument. The intersect between the two wagons probably has scum. Surprisingly, you're not in that intersect, because despite the fact that you supported the RR lynch, you never placed a vote there. If you'd like, I can go dig up supporting evidence.

Also not mentioned: the mental gymnastics required to somehow paint putting RR at L-1 as towny for baiting a scum quicklynch and scummy for... Baiting a scumquicklynch? And then not doing that.

1. Okay that point is clearer now. The difference being I was strongly suspecting the fight was TvS even before they started fighting. So the fight inflating the thread would by definition be caused by scum. Which is my original point about the inflation. Inflation doesn't happen because scum post nonsense by themselves. Inflation happens because scum continue or start converations about things that are not game-related.

2. The underlined. If you want to argue that real life facts are not true then that is a conversation to be had outside of the game. Angry people are easier to read. That's why there are emotional aspects of interrogations. That's why poker players target people on tilt.
As for this game and this particular fight... there would not be a fight if they didn't scumread each other. So I disagree with your conclusion that they wanted the other lynched no matter what their alignment is. Sure they might get on each others nerves no matter what but they don't start randomly fighting like that if each of them townread the other. A scumread is the spark.

3. You seem to think that I deliberately did not vote for RR so that I later when I make this case can conveniently not include myself in the list.
When the RR votes were piling on I was flip flopping on RR, townreading him for reasons, scumreading him for others, trying to sort him through other ways like watching their interactions with others and engaging him myself. I was considering lynching them for the flip and to have a wagon we can lynch one of in d2 as votes piling on that quickly indicated scum on the wagon. Whether it was for bussing or to lynch a townie. But I wasn't sure if I really scumread them.

When the flicker votes were piling on I was scumreading flicker. That's the difference.

And then the intersect thing is a way for me to focus my scumhunting on a small group of players instead of all 16. All I said about it was that there is scum in the intersect. I didn't say everyone in the intersect is scum. Why do I believe there is scum in the interest? Because there are more scum reasons to join both wagons and unvote than there are town reasons to join both wagons and then unvote both, as I explained to cheeky a few posts back. Mcmenno was saying it was meaningless because any group of 4 could easily contain 1 scum. But the thing is I believe that group definitely contains scum, so it's far more probable than a random pick of 4.
I didn't pick the names randomly.. I picked the names based on the fact that I find it extremely unlikely that 4 townies had the same read on a player being wagoned, then had the same change of heart, then had the same read on another player being wagoned, then had the same change of heart.

And it might just be Elsa being a 3p messing with the odds of this whole thing.. but to equate it to a random pick of 4 was wrong of Mcmenno.

And I'm curious.. if I had voted both of them.. do you honestly expect me to put myself in my own scum pool?
Probably not.. no you're saying I'm scum because I'm scumreadimg people based on something I didn't do.

But I went through like the most diffcult and roundabout way of doing so. Why wouldn't I pick literally anything else that some people did that some didn't?

Let me explain how much effort that was from my pov. 99% of the time I go on MS it's on the phone.. so on phone I had to go back to the first wagon, take the names from the VC, go through the thread counting any additional votes that may have been missed, then do the same thing again for the 2nd wagon, then write up a few posts that actually explain what I'm doing because like I can't just fling a bunch of naked names around, JUST so I can have an additional reason to start a vanity wagon on someone I already had several reasons to scumread which is way more than enough to start a vanity wagon.

I wanted to help people to see why RC/Chara is scum. They don't see it.

I wanted to point out that Toog's lurkiness is on par with TFP and nico and that he has voted only on popular wagons, but that got ignored.

So it's like not even the scum pool thing that I do that most players don't do that people are ignoring of mine, but pretty much every thing I bring forward is being ignored.

So you know what playing my way is not going to work with this playerlist.
So if you're town help me appeal to the status quo better. What should I do?
And if you're scum you should lynch me now because I guarantee you I get harder to lynch as town with time not easier. My cases become much more aligned with what people are used to seeing and I know how to argue them better because I have more information behind the reasoning for them.

And if I end up being right about Chara being scum then this site is in serious need of new blood because people are like letting their friendships mess with their reads.

Here.. you did make one point I agree with.. these solo wagons are going no where.
I think if we're going to vote for an active lurker we should vote for Toogeloo instead for the record.. if people are willing to switch..
VOTE: TFPKAP

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I COACH MY DAUGHTERS SOCCER TEAM AND IVE NEVER BEEN TO ONE GAME DRUNK YOU DONT KNOW HOW HARD THAT WOULD BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE

THIS IS A WITCH-HUNT

BEEREEEEEEEEEEEEEEER

You only say that as scum.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

oops, meant to do this in one of my earlier posts. just bookmarking this quote, quite mysteriously.

Spoiler:

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

Seriously, who makes up priest? I hadn’t even heard of that role before her claim?

Not opposed but doubt she’s lying about that.

~N

NSG, you clearly misunderstood my post. What I was “not opposed” to was having Flicker PROVE her claim. I was however adamantly opposed to lynching her. I agreed with Tora and others that doing so was more likely than not, was a waste of time, she I was and am still convinced she’s probably town here.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Hell no
I want this dead 10000x faster than before just for how annoying this is

Are you convinced she’s scum though? I don’t want a policy lynch.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I dislike your reads on both Skygazer

what do you dislike / disagree with exactly?

but especially Flicker and it seems your sr us for our hard Flicker defense.

can you quote what i said that gave you this idea?

NSG , why are you still scumreading this slot?

i've made my reasoning pretty clear. is there something about the post you quoted that shows that i shouldn't be?

oops, meant to do this in one of my earlier posts. just bookmarking this quote, quite mysteriously.

Spoiler:

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

Seriously, who makes up priest? I hadn’t even heard of that role before her claim?

Not opposed but doubt she’s lying about that.

~N

NSG, you clearly misunderstood my post. What I was “not opposed” to was having Flicker PROVE her claim. I was however adamantly opposed to lynching her. I agreed with Tora and others that doing so was more likely than not, was a waste of time, she I was and am still convinced she’s probably town here.

okay, stop.

how can you

posssibly,

possibly

say that i "misunderstood" your post

when i didn't even say anything about it?

I’m assuming based on me both defending Flicker slot and then saying I wasn’t opposed to her wagon. I wanted to clarify exactly what I meant by that, because without taking into account the whole proving of her claim thing, it looks like I was contradicting myself when I wasn’t. So, if my assumption was in error and you did actually understand what I meant, then that’s my mistake.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Hell no
I want this dead 10000x faster than before just for how annoying this is

Are you convinced she’s scum though? I don’t want a policy lynch.

Yes
I said this when I voted I’m pretty sure

I COACH MY DAUGHTERS SOCCER TEAM AND IVE NEVER BEEN TO ONE GAME DRUNK YOU DONT KNOW HOW HARD THAT WOULD BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE

THIS IS A WITCH-HUNT

BEEREEEEEEEEEEEEEEER

You only say that as scum.

She says while still sitting on the incredibly meaningful Mala wagon...

I was just waiting for Gamma to clarify. I think these recent series of posts from TPFKAF seems scummy to me as well.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: TPFKAP

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

The TPFKAP lynch will basically be a policy lynch considering his flip will be almost entirely informationless.

...and people gave me a hard time for saying we should lynch the third party player.

Yes, the reason you’ve been getting a hard time is because unlike TPFKAP, EJ is actually doing something useful. You’ve essentially got a myopic tunnel blindness when it comes to that slot. It’s only D1, what good does it do us to lynch the hard claimed neutral doc, who is actually trying to help town?

I wouldn’t vote TPFKAP, if I really thought she was just a policy lynch. I have only seen her use that “witchhunt” comment when she’s scum. I’ve been in games where people tr Porkens and wanted to policy lynch her for being annoying and I objected to that. Her most recent posts makes me think, she likely isn’t town here.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Wow, no kills. So Toog as LR may explain it. However if EJ was on Cheeky, that probably points to more than one protective in the game. Since Toog had to have been doc’d since he clearly didn’t claim bp.

Lightning Rod
Lightning Rod
Alias:
Magnet
Alignment:
Pro-Town
Role type:
Manipulative
Passive
Negative Utility
Choice:
Night

The Lightning Rod passively redirects every Night Action to itself. This includes the Mafia's kill as well as all investigations, protections, and so forth.

In games with at least one protective role, this essentially makes the game Nightless until the Lightning Rod dies for whichever reason. Otherwise, this functionally makes the Lightning Rod the designated Night 1 Mafia kill while rendering all other power roles worthless during Night 1.

Lightning Rods are most often, but not necessarily, pro-Town. Perhaps also see Suicidal.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

The RR/BuJaber debate is going nowhere *really* fast.

Nancy Drew came in and gave a beautiful picture perfect example of IIoA by literally saying nothing other than theorizing town has a protective role other than the claimed 3rd party role - whoop-dee-insight.

Do you honestly think this was going to be my only post on D2?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I mean ... that spew of crap could be give up posting I suppose. That's some consolation.

There is a VERY strong reason to believe that NicoRobin is scum in this game. Like bordering on logical certainty reasoning. Just trying to get this in before threadlock.

~D

A LYNCH has been achieved

VC#0

TPFKAP (9): Thor665, Gamma Emerald, Elsa Jay, CheekyTeeky, BuJaber, Jingle, Nancy Drew Shogunate, Chara, Toogeloo

BuJaber (2): McMenno, Chickadee
Flicker (2): Reasonably Rational, northsidegal

NicoRobin (2): Malakittens TPFKAP

Reasonably Rational (1): NicoRobin


Not Voting: Flicker

Deadline suspended

Interesting. Was TPFKAP possibly distancing here?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Interesting. Was TPFKAP possibly distancing here?

Like, just look at this, let's even accept that Nancy honestly thought TPFKAP knew exactly who their teammates were.
Is she *agreeing* that this is distancing?
Is she *disagreeing*?
Is she discussing her personal thoughts on anything?
Or is she making noise and hoping someone else will attack a slot for something?

Pedit: I am fine with you not wanting to mine. But at that stage YOU'VE ALREADY TAKEN THE DEBATE AS FAR AS IT CAN GO BECAUSE BUJABER ISN'T GOING TO CLAIM SCUM IF HE'S FAKING HIS THEORY.

I agree you can decided this for yourself and get back to us - I fail to see the point of the debate in helping you, he stated his theory, you noted your hole - thus endeth the excitement.

Sheep me on Nancy Drew?

She’s a Martyr. Isn’t that the definition of a martyr? They know who their teammates are but not the other way around? I know that was the case for scum!Wisdom in Labrynth.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

let's make sure we all understand flicker's ability is straight up NAI and she would never lie about not being able to self hammer cause she'd be lynched for it with 0 compensation for claiming this. I'm townreading her posting around the claim cause it feels pure.

-tor

Thor wants to hammer.

When did I say that?

If flicker is town, then who is scum on this wagon?

I don’t know. My strongest scumreads are offwagon. *shrug*

~N

It's like there was the possibility of insight, and then it was stamped upon brutally.
Tor continues to be trash and continues to avoid me.
Him white knighting this wagon makes me think he's statistically more likely to be right about the potential alignment flip. This is based on me thinking he's primary groupscum, natch.

Flicker’s posts show clear town thought process to me. This sort of thing is not easily fakable.

~Nancy

I'm a Town Priest (probably Shepard Book). At least if I die first, it sort of fits narratively, plus my role's "power" is slightly burdensome for town. I was trying to breadcrumb with my emoji choice, but I guess nerd to books to Book isn't that straight-forward.

If you'd like, I can prove my role by trying (and failing) to hammer myself? Normally I wouldn't even gesture toward a self-voting because it's so anti-town, but it genuinely won't do a thing in this case. I checked with the mod, there's no repercussions for trying, either.

I knew my read on you was correct.

\o/

~ Nancy

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

Seriously, who makes up priest? I hadn’t even heard of that role before her claim?

Not opposed but doubt she’s lying about that.

~N

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

she is of course telling the truth about her role ability

this won't prove her alignment either way

and no, I'd rather not waste everyone's time on this.

-tor

Scummy in the sense that your not letting a townie confirm herself, Tora.

Thor, help Flicker prove her claim. Vote to let her try to self-Hammer.

The link she posted said that either or vote wouldn’t count or she could get modkilled - I have no idea why but I’d absolutely insist on us getting mod confirmation of that - that she is at 0 risk for being modkilled.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

@Flicker: Please ask the moderator if you can hammer in mylo/lylo.

Okay, I just did. I'll let you know when I get the answer.

Pedit: Since I'm already being so accommodating, sure, I'll sheep Thor for now.

VOTE: Nancy Drew Shogunate

Thor is pushing us for made up reasons. First some meta nonsense I still don’t understand, now he’s sr me for understanding the role of martyr. Of course I understand that role because there was one in Labrynth.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: Thor

He has been targeting us from the getgo, unlike say Cheeky, Elsa, Chara and Bujabar, who have actually been trying to sort us.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

TPFKAP was ...

Spoiler:

Hello

TPFKAP

You are Lawrence Dobson, an undercover Union of Allied Planets agent in pursuit of Simon and River Tam.

You know that mysterious pair going by “Hands of Blue” are also in pursuit of the Tam siblings on behalf of the Union, but they are not notified of your identity.

You are immune to

your own faction's kill

. If both HoB players die you inherit their kill.

You win when the Serenity crew are eliminated or nothing can stop that from happening.

To make it simple: You are a Traitor aligned with the HoB.

Important: To avoid flavour gaming; Town players have NOT been given their flavour.

"Simon Tam, you are ordered by law to stand down."

Thread is now locked and it's Night 1

Please send in you night action before the deadline expires

Night Deadline (expired on 2018-10-15 22:00:00)

Aha! Proof that I was right and that Thor is pushing a lynch on me for scummy reasons. It says right in the fucking role flip that LD/TPFKAP knows exactly who her teammates “Hands of Blue” are but not the other way around. So since HoB don’t know about LD (TPFKAP), LD certainly knows about them. So therefore

any vote that TPFKAP made is possibly an associative read that can possibility help town discern who HoB are.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Traitor is a role with many variants.

The standard version knows their teams identity, isn't known, and loses if they are the last member of their faction.

This one, as per the flip, did not now their teams identity, presumably wasn't known, and inherited the kill of their faction if they were the last member.

I just read it. Read the role flip. It confirms what I’m saying.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Interesting. Was TPFKAP possibly distancing here?

Like, just look at this, let's even accept that Nancy honestly thought TPFKAP knew exactly who their teammates were.
Is she *agreeing* that this is distancing?
Is she *disagreeing*?
Is she discussing her personal thoughts on anything?
Or is she making noise and hoping someone else will attack a slot for something?

Pedit: I am fine with you not wanting to mine. But at that stage YOU'VE ALREADY TAKEN THE DEBATE AS FAR AS IT CAN GO BECAUSE BUJABER ISN'T GOING TO CLAIM SCUM IF HE'S FAKING HIS THEORY.

I agree you can decided this for yourself and get back to us - I fail to see the point of the debate in helping you, he stated his theory, you noted your hole - thus endeth the excitement.

Sheep me on Nancy Drew?

I suppose it's possible I had it backwards with RC v Tora.
But I still feel that the manner in which Tora declared his 3p read on Elsa, and then bragging about it was over-the-top and unlikely to come from scum.

Thanks for reminding me of this. You all get to be asked the question that I would normally keep to my chats with Drixx in private:

Tora+Elsa scum team, setting up a play as a mafia doctor? Thoughts?

-Cerb

Thor sr me for making logical assumptions based on what was explicitly stated in TPFKAP isn’t?

I don’t even understand what you’re talking about here. EJ claimed to have been on Cheeky, correct? Well, if Toog is LR, then how could he still be alive unless there’s another protective in the game?

???

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

But the role PM doesn't mention names of players like [redacted] & [redacted] which is what is the usual mod standard around here.

No, and why would it? When does the mod ever reveal the entire scumteam in a flip? Can you point to a single game, where this has happened. Necromancer obviously excluded - since that was a mod error.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

It confirms the FLAVOR of the scumteam. It is arguably possible that the mod removed the section on whom the HoB are, but unlikely.

Anyway, there's a solution:

@A50: Was the HoB traitor informed of their scummates identities?

You know that mysterious pair going by “Hands of Blue” are also in pursuit of the Tam siblings on behalf of the Union, but they are not notified of your identity.

Oh.

UNVOTE:

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Wisdom has been lynched! He was

Hoggle, Mafia Investigation-Immune Traitor

.

Spoiler: Role PM

Damn you Jareth... and damn me too.

Welcome! You are

Hoggle, Mafia Investigation-Immune Traitor

.

Scared of Jareth (Mafia): You are too scared of Jareth to side with the town.
Traitor! (Traitor):

You are a traitor and are not part of the main mafia faction and are endgamed if they are all removed. They do not know your identity.

Sweet (Investigation-Immune): Anyone trying to determine your alignment would believe that you are aligned with the town.

You win when the Goblins have sent all of the Town to the oubliette or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Your fakeclaim is, well, Hoggle. You don't get a different one.

Your scumteam consists of [redacted].

Night has begun and will end about 6:00 PM EDT on the 21st.

I’m officially stupid.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Wisdom has been lynched! He was

Hoggle, Mafia Investigation-Immune Traitor

.

Spoiler: Role PM

Damn you Jareth... and damn me too.

Welcome! You are

Hoggle, Mafia Investigation-Immune Traitor

.

Scared of Jareth (Mafia): You are too scared of Jareth to side with the town.
Traitor! (Traitor):

You are a traitor and are not part of the main mafia faction and are endgamed if they are all removed. They do not know your identity.

Sweet (Investigation-Immune): Anyone trying to determine your alignment would believe that you are aligned with the town.

You win when the Goblins have sent all of the Town to the oubliette or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Your fakeclaim is, well, Hoggle. You don't get a different one.

Your scumteam consists of [redacted].

Night has begun and will end about 6:00 PM EDT on the 21st.

I’m officially stupid.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

given the cards i was dealt, I think i did the best i could
traitor sucks. I couldn't bus random, and i had no say in the nightkills. I wasn't lying that id never make those kills.
Even so, i think that was easily a win until tw gladiated me, so good job tw.
gg

ank i just felt both Chick and random were obvious scum and given they were neighbors one of them would be lynched sooner or later
So why not bus to get some cred
And if i wasnt a traitor id bus random too

I just realized he didn’t actually know. Is this usually true for martyrs?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Thor is pushing us for made up reasons. First some meta nonsense I still don’t understand, now he’s sr me for understanding the role of martyr. Of course I understand that role because there was one in Labrynth.

As long as we're pointing out issues with your play;

1. What is the meta nonsense you don't understand?
I'm guessing it;s from your weak attack that I asked you to back up, that all happened here;
viewtopic.php?p=10478530#p10478530
I've been mentioning it a LOT and this is the first time you've even admitted awareness of me mentioning it - which is exciting progress.

2. When did I say I was scum reading you for understanding the martyr role? I never did anything of the sort. Now, I *did* call you scummy for IIoA and said exactly that when I did. But now you're making up a ridiculous straw man to whine about instead.

In a fire scum, go die in it

I’m not and you’d know this if you were familiar with my meta. I read the flip wrong. Ask anyone who’s played with me ever. I do this all the time. I’m surprised RR don’t this. Maybe Chick and Gamma?

I’m not scum, I honestly misread the role flip. Fine, mislynch me then because I will flip town.

@Mod, am I allowed to ask people who are familiar with my meta, to prove I’m not lying here? Or only this playerbase?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

porkens' lurking is straight up NAI and he didn't display any confusion about multiball, he just apparently didn't know who was talking about it first.

1. I didn't call his lurking scummy in any way at all - so...redefine your case on me to what I actually said and did, yeah?
I called him as active lurking and faking not knowing what's going on in an attempt to avoid doing anything, and noted that he wasn't trying to game solve.
Why do you think i wouldn't find that scummy? It's not from anything I've ever said in any game ever, so...?

2. Are we playing word games? Okay, fine, I clarify my comment of "confused about multiball" to "confused about who instigated multiball discussion and deciding it was a valid scumtell to vote Elsa over" Feel free to explain how that changes anything now that I've used more words to make more specifically clear what he pretended to be confused about.

This isn’t even MY post. No wonder I had no clue what the hell you were talking about. Tora wrote that not me.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Thor is pushing us for made up reasons. First some meta nonsense I still don’t understand, now he’s sr me for understanding the role of martyr. Of course I understand that role because there was one in Labrynth.

As long as we're pointing out issues with your play;

1. What is the meta nonsense you don't understand?
I'm guessing it;s from your weak attack that I asked you to back up, that all happened here;
viewtopic.php?p=10478530#p10478530
I've been mentioning it a LOT and this is the first time you've even admitted awareness of me mentioning it - which is exciting progress.

2. When did I say I was scum reading you for understanding the martyr role? I never did anything of the sort. Now, I *did* call you scummy for IIoA and said exactly that when I did. But now you're making up a ridiculous straw man to whine about instead.

In a fire scum, go die in it

I’m not and you’d know this if you were familiar with my meta. I read the flip wrong. Ask anyone who’s played with me ever. I do this all the time. I’m surprised RR don’t this. Maybe Chick and Gamma?

I’m not scum, I honestly misread the role flip. Fine, mislynch me then because I will flip town.

@Mod, am I allowed to ask people who are familiar with my meta, to prove I’m not lying here? Or only this playerbase?

The problem is I don't know what head is speaking, so if we're BoP'ing or meta'ing you, I can't speak about anything.

I recommend signing everything for at least one head. ^^

-Cerb

Spoiler:

posting.php?mode=multi&f=3&m%5B%5D=10492935

#56 (ISO) » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:10 pm

In post 28, randomidget wrote:
how will we know if they did it?


Alisae said they stole this power from Micc, the ability to give a creature that could vote(that's the elemental that is currently in play) to someone, and gain a mana for doing so.
So if t hey do it, another elemental should come into play, under someone else's control. If Micc/Nancy is town, then they'll put it under the control of PH, and SS can lie detect them about doing so. It would require that just the right subset of people be scum for us to have to resort to waiting for one of their flips to know whether or not they targeted the individual they were supposed to.

-Cerb


———————————————-


really bad call there Cerb. I was really sick, clueless and practically a newbie to this site and most significantly

totally not caught up in the game

. You should have waited until N2. Until now, Ithought you were town in this game.

Lolme, I did correctly tr you. I got this mixed up with the scum PT. Sorry.

Still, I got replaced in close to the EOD 1 and was sick and lost in the game, so I was useless to town N1. :/

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I’m not and you’d know this if you were familiar with my meta. I read the flip wrong. Ask anyone who’s played with me ever. I do this all the time. I’m surprised RR don’t this. Maybe Chick and Gamma?

I’m not scum, I honestly misread the role flip. Fine, mislynch me then because I will flip town.

@Mod, am I allowed to ask people who are familiar with my meta, to prove I’m not lying here? Or only this playerbase?

FWIW, I completely believe you misread the flip, because I see no scum reason to try to argue that knowing the correct interpretation. I don't really think that you misreading the flip is AI though.

Thank you. <3. Yes it is Nancy and anyone can do a metacheck on me to confirm that I do this all the time, in Mafia as well as irl.

No it’s not AI. In my only scumgame on here, I derped as much as I have in every single towngame, I’ve ever played. It isn’t usually a problem for anyone who knows my meta. I was hoping to discern if any of TPFKAP’s reads or votes might lead us to HoB but I honestly thought she knew but HoB didn’t. And that “witchhunt” comment of hers was a dead giveaway that she was scum. She did that in Labrynth too.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

hey there fellas

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

votecount

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Nancy Drew Shogunate (6):	Thor665 (2092),	Flicker (2114),	Toogeloo (2175),	McMenno (2197),	Elsa Jay (2199),	CheekyTeeky (2221),
McMenno (1):	BuJaber (2082),
northsidegal (1):	Jingle (2223),
Not voting (8):	NicoRobin,	Chara,	Chickadee,	Reasonably Rational,	Malakittens,	Gamma Emerald,	northsidegal,	Nancy Drew Shogunate (2140),

(expired on 2018-10-29 22:00:00) remain.

Excellent timing, Tora. Your Currently 3 votes away from death.

Just letting you know.

nancy told me. she is not feeling too good about the game and I'm not in the mood to play mafia lately so we're in a spot.

just get good at mafia and read my d1 and then clear me for it cause it's a town d1.

oh btw cheeky are you defending me?

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

i wanted to vote chicka but i feel like 10 is town spewy

idk who I am

Important: To avoid flavour gaming; Town players have NOT been given their flavour.

How is this not enough? Am I the only person who had no idea who had been given flavour?

goat

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I'm kinda sold on mcmenno being scum based off sky's TMI, cause I agree with cheeky's interpretation of it, and I think the other posts cheeky quoted are scummy and I never liked how sky flip flopped on me cause it feels unnatural

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I'm kinda sold on mcmenno being scum based off sky's TMI, cause I agree with cheeky's interpretation of it, and I think the other posts cheeky quoted are scummy and I never liked how sky flip flopped on me cause it feels unnatural

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

really vibing with flicker this game

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

VOTE: mcmenno

alright

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Tora is right, I’ve lost interest in this game but I don’t think Sky/Meno is scum.

So, I will sheep Chara/Flicker on Mala.

We’re probably getting mislynched either way. :/

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Malakittens

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

My vote hasnt moved in awhile.

VOTE: Mala

I'll do this last favor for ya, Nancy. Hope you get your spirits back.

I’m overgamed and burnt out on Mafia but unfortunately possibly addicted, and some people on this site, don’t know how to play nice.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I just don't really see how a flavor day time cop is a town role.

I told Tora, I’m bored as f with this game and he said that it was still breakable by flavour, so I dunno. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Sorry mod.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

So I’m glad we are going to let Elsa live who is claimed 3rd party who I’m sure hasn’t said everything in the role PM but planning on saying fuck it lets lynch you. Yeah please explain to me how that’s fair because it’s not

EJ claimed doc and she was very specific and adamant, about being on Cheeky.

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Ahh .. so I was right about Mala crumbing but not right about the exact role / alignment.

@Toog - yes I'm suggesting you vote Menno, or at least asking if you would consider lynching Menno.

I mean if NDS is scum it gives townpoints to chara but don't expect me to throw away my entire read on the slot just like that. I don't think NDS flips scum.

So that's 3 claimed 3p... we can't keep all of them alive forever unless we lynch scum like every day because scum have a better chance of shooting down all the town now.

Does this has anything to do with RC replacing out? I think Chara is probably town by play but moreso because of RC AtE on subbing out. I disagree that there’s anything AI based on his arguing with Tora.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Claims this game so far-

Elsa: Neutral Doc (Ascetic BP)
Flicker: Priest
Toog: Lightning Rod
Chickadee: Day flavor cop (who says Robin is River/Simon)
Jingle: Mason

Mala: Lyncher who flavor target is "Mal"

I'm keeping this as a reminder for later.

I’m sorry I haven’t been following this game too closely. Where did Jingle claim mason?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Hi guys, here’s where I ‘m at. I apologize for not really being too aware of what has been happening in the game. Anyway, I was wondering why people thought the Sky/Menno slot were scummy and I’m embarassed to admit that I never bothered to ISO Menno’s posts. I thought Sky’s were fine but I wasn’t terribly impressed with any of Menno’s posts. So, maybe I misread Sky and probably would never have scumread them but I have not liked any of Menno’s posts for the most part.

I don’t have a problem with lynching Mala but I really think we first and foremost need to lynch HoB and if Mala’s claim is to be believed, she isn’t one of them. I really think Menno could possibly be scum here.

Thoughts?

~Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

when you say you weren't impressed with Menno's posts, do you mean you actively find any of them scummy, or you just don't find them particularly towny?

I thought they sounded scummy. Most of them were surface level in analysis and a lot of posts saying x players should die. It was weird to me that they seemed almost angry and kind of knee-jerky in their responses. I’m a huge believer in reading off of tone and obviously didn’t find any issue with Sky’s but Menno’s seemed kind of off to me. I’m still trying to reconcile why my Sky and Menno reads could be so different. Sky didn’t do too much but nothing was really off but I get a bad vibe off of Menno’s posts.

It’s confusing when you get different players with completely contrasting playstyles in slots, so I’m trying to figure out if I was wrong on Sky or letting my own personal playstyle bias affect my read on Menno. I’ll go find some of the posts that pnged me.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

@AP if you haven't found a replacement I can come back if you're willing to let me cancel my replacement. I approached my boss about my work schedule today and he's cutting me some slack going forward since it's my recital semester.

I have been tasked with replacing into this game. why I accepted? maybe because I'm a masochist. who are the scum?

... This is awkward.l

it's only awkward if you make it so!

well, I hope I'm not dead by the end of this game

Isn't Reavers from Mass Effect?

He picked the wrong Sci-fi series.

Also, my attempt at getting out of the early stages clearly gave us SOMETHING. Now what people make of it is up to them.

No there are reavers here too....and I do not believe them to be town.

have games changed to the point now that they are unbreakable by flavor?

this post pings me. I'm up to that page.

cheekyteeky and northsidegal are also not vibing well with me up to that point.

I will now head to bed and read up more tomorrow, since I was already doing that when almost sent me the pm

and I would request cheekyteeky to stop spreading fake news about me or have their team shoot me tonight

sorry I'm not really "in" to well like, life, right now

my reads are about as solid as a jelly pudding

I don't have any hard townreads

mala, nsg, cheeky, the other n shogunate??? are all like. bad. kill them

I dunno, just doesn’t seem to have a lot of thought processes into his reads. Maybe not townie over scummy?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

P.edit. He in esssence has strong reactions, is somewhat defensive and doesn’t really explain too much of his reasoning. Like saying, he doesn’t have strong reads but X players should die, is kind of ugh to me and why did Mala’s flavour post ping him? He never really explained that. It doesn’t read to me like he has any interest in solving the game and is perfectly fine with lynching whomever so long as it’s not him. He also shades a few players with either bad reasoning or none at all. So, is he scum? I have no clue but I see nothing townie in his ISO.