Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Nauci]

Sup y'all

Stacked roster ♪┏(°.°)┛┗(°.°)┓┗(°.°)┛┏(°.°)┓ ♪

Since I'm still recovering from pollution induced bronchitis and general burn out, don't expect me to be at my 110% wall posting mode for a bit

I'll aim for like 40% capacity and if town is lucky I'll get all the way up to half assed

But I do intend to come out of this with a 12-1 town record...

[Nauci]

Quickly skimmed

Survey says...

Paranoid gut off feelings here VOTE: skitter30

Here we go again ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[Nauci]

Krazy, I would be thoroughly disappointed if you didn't fill a spectator thread with at least as much sass as I did (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

[Nauci]

I don't like when RVS ends in fewer than 4 pages

[Nauci]

I'm not ready to be tryhard lol I just wanted to banter a tad

I thought skitter30 would be more bantery like tw me and rel

[Nauci]

I'm kinda being lazy this game (aka I just woke up from a loooong jetlag nap)

I know several people here are muuuuch better/different as town versus scum. Irrelephant is very good as scum. Who else is, since I don't quite recognize everyone?

Also, is there a VOTE: Not_Mafia in the house?

My trip was half great fun, half pollution induced bronchitis (I coughed up a rose shaped piece of mucus the size of a small strawberry AMA), half weight gain from ultra delicious Chinese food being shoved down my gullet by my whole family.

[Nauci]

Keyser you never picked an avatar for me

[Nauci]

Yeah I live in the immediate bay area so I'd been in 200+ aqi (348 the day I left!) before heading off into Chinese pollution lol

Idk how people live in Mumbai where it has gotten up to 1000. 250 feels like simultaneously smoking 3 cigarettes.

I will check on this performer hunch

[Nauci]

Now that everybody but NM has joined us

VOTE: varsoon

39 this is the closest I've seen TW ever get to having a natural flow and carefree attitude. I feel like I'm pretty confident at reading scum worst at this point and there's no hint of the nervous YOLOing and showboating I've seen (unfortunately for our poor ducky) too many times. Town lean.

we can sniff out scum together buddeh

90 I'm also fairly confident in my ability to read irrelephant and while it's too early to go into details, I disagree with your assessment in this post. However, thank you for 104 because I need to go read up on that scumrelephant game.

106 I have very WIFOM thoughts about this post and the use of "same team" instead of "both town." I would think scum faking this banter would take care to say "town" instead of "same team"? But then again, if this was a casual thought typed directly into the box without too much thought for manipulation, it felt quite scummy.

I'm voting Varsoon for now because that entrance left a lot to be desired.

[Nauci]

I've got no read at all on Keyser since I'm recalibrating on him haha

[Nauci]

Thoughts otherwise:
Nauci keeps using their vote as pressure on players that aren't here rather than sticking to a wagon and dealing with the possible interactions that come from it. I don't like this.
Mitilos and Skitter are parsing out their thoughts plenty and I like that, though I'm still trying to make heads or tails of them.
The Worst truly is The Worst but at the very least their play IS consistent and reminds me of their town play, so I don't feel horrible about their slot.

What's up you cool babies?

Confirming that I'm doing this

But also that I always do this

You know how often day 1 lurkers turn out to be scum while the whole town is busy FOSing each other?

[Nauci]

ye ok AlmostNancy can be town for now

wow I cant believe I'm playing a game with Nauci

cat's probably scum too

how so?

male intuition

You didn't even bother answering any of the points I raised, you just went straight for the vote.
Shoshin, I thought you were better.

Man I have a really hard time sorting people with this sort of ego and bravado

[Nauci]

Edit: Explain the new vote, please.

His aggression feels over-the-top. His "disgust" towards townreads doesn't feel town at all, especially when comparing Varsoon's town game to his scum game. As town, he himself tends to townread certain players for seemingly nothing (e.g. his townread on Reck in TAZ Mafia), whereas as scum he does everything in his power to prevent lots of townreads from forming (can't reference a specific game yet but will eventually). His vote on me feels thoughtless, like he's just trying to go make an against-the-grain vote instead of having actual reasons to suspect me as scum (there's none, since I'm town and when I'm town it's fairly obvious to anyone who has played wiht me before, and that includes Varsoon). And finally, his commentary on Nauci and others feels overly descriptive; as town he was more analytical and tended to make more concrete interpretations of alignment based on what players are doing, instead of just describing their behavivors and then saying he doesn't know what it means.

Having experience with both town Varsoon and scum Varsoon, I'm confident this is his scum game. His response to my vote is also pretty damning imo, since he's not even trying to sort me but instead just wants to start a pointless back-and-forth between us when he should know better - it'll just clog the game with stuff that isn't relevant, since we just disagree about how to play the game on a very fundamental level.

Personally, I thought his reasons made sense from his perspective to dislike us, even if I happen to disagree since I know more about both of our styles.

[Nauci]

@Irrelephant: You jumped votes between your first two posts (which were within a page of each other) as mafia in micro 824.2 (and I note that on that one your jump was away from the wagon on your scumbuddy).
By comparison you took longer to switch votes in mini normal 2042 as town, and even when you did switch, you almost immediately unvoted.
You also took your time to switch votes in mini 2018 again as town.
I'm having trouble finding the third one again, so maybe I was wrong about that. But hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

So the scum game you found, I started the game as a lone Mafioso. I was later recruited by RCEnigma, so my unvote of him at the start of the game was uninformed (as uninformed as I am here) and not partner-indicative. Regardless, this is literally "I am cherry picking three of your games (excluding a bunch of them for no discernible reason - why would I play significantly different as IC, for example?) and you did this one thing as scum one time and you're doing it here; therefore, scum." Oh wait, also "an OMGUS vote". Do you believe in this read? You haven't tried to sell anyone on it. Are you just happy to feel like you can justify voting me, or?

I think if you examined more of my games/examined specifically games where I am familiar with most of the playerlist/extended your examination of this wagonhopping to include more of D1 (I'm not even always present for RVS, for example), you'd find this is literally the crappiest meta scumread anyone has ever had - especially since others who are familiar with me have already told you I'm town.

Someone stop me - I feel like mitillos' scumread of me is agenda-y, and I would not like to tunnel on town if I am wrong.

the worst "agreeing to disagree" with shoshin was towny

As in scum-TW wouldn’t want town-Shoshin on his back? So TW doing the opposite of this is “towny”?

Yes, as well as his insistence on having a scumread (on his scumpartner? unlikely. On a random townie, when he's scum? Not if it'll make him unpopular. As a townie who thinks he maybe found scum early? Much more likely.)

I'm kinda being lazy this game (aka I just woke up from a loooong jetlag nap)

I know several people here are muuuuch better/different as town versus scum. Irrelephant is very good as scum. Who else is, since I don't quite recognize everyone?

Also, is there a VOTE: Not_Mafia in the house?

My trip was half great fun, half pollution induced bronchitis (I coughed up a rose shaped piece of mucus the size of a small strawberry AMA), half weight gain from ultra delicious Chinese food being shoved down my gullet by my whole family.

I'll note here that my towngame has improved and it is as yet unclear if my scumgame has improved to match. I think you'll be able to read me this game.

I've got no read at all on Keyser since I'm recalibrating on him haha

+town for Nauci, unless they're partners

I actually want to look at Relly

Hi!

It's kind of baffling that you propose a policy lynch on me and when Irrel + The Worst deny it outright and ask you why
You hard dodge
Then post this sort of thing:

I think I should be higher on the town list, the worst.

For what reason even?

Because she's obvtown

VOTE: Skitter

I had similar feelings.

This is spineless.
You asked Nauci for a read just to sheep it.
I see no trajectory that'd lead you to have this opinion on skitter, even.

She doesn't need to provide trajectory if she's right or if the results of not providing trajectory are helpfully AI from skitter

^ Like you say you 'had similar feelings' but you haven't mentioned skitter once before in your ISO.

Towny for Shoshin

VOTE: Varsoon

I think Varsoon might be town, but I haven't decided yet

You didn't even bother answering any of the points I raised, you just went straight for the vote.

Shoshin, I thought you were better.

No you didn't

Here's me stopping you from tunneling

It seemed like a reasonable read to make during the stage where we only have like 4 pages of posts and we have to make somethings out of nothings to get the game going, and it was as good as any narrative to work up. I thought he picked most recent games versus deliberate cherry picking

Also

For clarity

I disagreed with his assessment of your meta but do not declare you a town read yet (but you're used to me refusing to town read you for a long time)

[Nauci]

It'd be a different story if your votes weren't everywhere and baseless,
If your rationale for voting wasn't flimsy and subject to change at a whim,
If you weren't propping up bald votes on someone you're clamoring for a policy lynch on,
and if you'd actually engaged with any of my points raised against you.

You seem to be scum reading her for very good first-10-pages strategies, which involve going off of very little data to provoke sortable responses and frequently engaging in vote wagons even if blankly to provoke posts precisely like the ones you've made in order to sort you

Operation successful for both shoshin and I, tbh

@shoshin, I hope this doesn't play out like varsoon = Gustavo 2.0

[Nauci]

Varsoon, why do you treat early, 2-3 votewagons as if they must be accurate reads, or require extensive justification, or are in danger of leading to your lynch?

The fact that you're already talking about how you'd flip from having 2 page <10 votes on you gives me bad vibes, but maybe we just have wildly different early game philosophy. What's yours?

[Nauci]

It's like people are actively making it hard for me to keep up in this game...sigh

I am not an alt. I just haven't played in a very long time. Also worst posted before irrelephant.

Ah ok, it's because you're the only person I haven't played with or even heard of.
the posting - I checked again and it was because of my pg dn key, it scrolled past the mod's wall posts all the way into Irrel's post so I thought that was his confirm itt.

Oh and we have a decent mod in this game.

oof burn

lol I somewhat agree with a50
though I would change "decent" to "superb"

Incidentally, I saw in post #1 a mention of "informed status" not being revealed on flip. I've never played in a game with informed players, so I was wondering if the information they have should be shared with the rest of the town. Thoughts?

Well, my first thought is I don't have any experience in ever seeing someone say something like this. But if someone is informed and wants to share it, I'd say it depends. I don't think it's a black and white one-size-fits-all solution.

Something about the way he has gone way out of his way to post an elaborate explanation for a quick missed post here pings me hard

VOTE: Performer

[Nauci]

@TW, performer

always feels wolfy to me too,

I don't remember us being even the same alignment in that one game...so I'm not sure where you're getting this from...

i actually live near some of the california wildfires from a couple of weeks back. it was awful trying to breathe outside here for a few days - i felt the ash stuck in my throat

and then i went to sf for a day and it was even worse there, i couldn't stay outside for longer than like five minutes without coughing

Yeah the air in CA is normally good . This is the first time ever in the bay area this year, that it's ever been terrible with the smoke. I say PGE mistakes and arsons. No way it's just "natural"

Wut

I don't know what you're talking about with PGE and arsons

It was all the result of the Camp Fire that completely disintegrated an entire town in under 24 hours

[Nauci]

@Irrelephant: Aww, you ruined it now.
UNVOTE: Irrelephant11 222 was 100% town, and the previous stuff wasn't bad either.
I will note that ignoring SI games is valid, because you have additional... responsibilities if you will, which could easily affect your playstyle. Also, games where you joined late wouldn't have told me if you wagonhop in RVS. However, you're right, what I did was definitely agenda-y:
worst probtown for posts 116 and 159 (amongst others). I'm ambivalent about Nauci for post 179. To those who play with her a lot: Is she always particularly careful and deliberating, or is she more like this as one alignment than others? I want to townread her for it, but I don't want to be biased just because I like her playstyle.
Shoshin is still town.

I'm particularly careful and deliberating if I'm posting from my laptop, where I can take notes and format stuff

And spammy when I post in real time (usually via mobile) but still try to be more strategic and reign in my hot takes at least a little

[Nauci]

It's kind of baffling that you propose a policy lynch on me and when Irrel + The Worst + Performer deny it outright

Fixed.

I dont like policy lynching (and for that matter I dont believe in the notion of "too scummy to be scum")

Further self conscious posting that makes me suspicious af

[Nauci]

VOTE: shosin

I was already getting scum vibes from calling a bunch of different people town for no reason and campaigning for a policy lynch is just a dick move

This is the least original post in the game

Varsoon are you going to call out this plagiarism

My naughty list is currently xtoxm, performer, and possibly Keyser but that's just for having been relatively quiet for keyser

[Nauci]

Bad vote from teacher.

Good votes on Varsoon.

Varsoon, I'm confident this is his scum game. His response to my vote is also pretty damning imo, since he's not even trying to sort me but instead just wants to start a pointless back-and-forth

I dont like the way shoshin voted skitter, later voted me, then when vars came back to talk about shosh, shes still on me while saying votes on vars is good (sounds like setting up) , soon after she flies straight from me onto scatman without addressing posts. Makes me think, "coasting mafia. "
And her confidence in scatman being scum and saying he's doing a pointless debate - the posts from vars dont look like pointless debate, it actually looks like shoshin is just writing vars off as scum.
VOTE: Shoshin

TW ever get to having a natural flow and carefree attitude. I feel like I'm pretty confident at reading scum worst at this point and there's no hint of the nervous YOLOing and showboating I've seen (unfortunately for our poor ducky) too many times. Town lean.

He seems to always have a carefree attitude between his scum and town play though .... I dont see how it's AI.

Anyway, I think the information I have is good for the town to have in advance, and unlikely to be something that scum don't already know (since they have daytalk per post 0), so I will go ahead and share it:
There are no roles with the ninja modifier.

@Shoshin: I would still like an explanation for your Performer vote, please.

I like mitil for town

-----------
People throwing up these "X is town" posts I think is NAI to me, partly because the game is moving so fast, partly because of so many people in this game.

Lynch this, TIA

Mmk that's all for now folks toodaloo

[Nauci]

Perhaps TW and Nauci could chip in here too...

I outright withhold judgement on Irrelephant11 for the time being

[Nauci]

the caveat on my reads is that I have townleaned friends who do not deserve it before because I like them

When you post stuff like this, Irrel, it feels like you're scum giving yourself wiggle room to later be okay with a lynch on your townreads, 'cus you were just 'friendreading' them and could be wrong.
:/

good thing I wrote other posts huh

I love this new sassy Irrelephant, regardless of alignment

[Nauci]

As a quick change of subject,

I claim paranoid gun owner

I went back and forth for 24 hours on whether or not I thought I'd be able to gambit scum into shooting me, but I couldn't think of a way to do it that wouldn't also get TPRs to accidentally target me, especially in this playerlist where I'm known to some as hard-to-read and my crumbs would never go unnoticed.
So, instead, here's my claim!

Keyser is not obvtown by any means
Actually the fact that I'm not quickly and easily townreading him should probably tell me he's scum, but maybe I just forget his posts, let me look

For the record I found this very slightly plausible just because I'd been tpr so many dang times and I almost invariably ended up checking Irrelephant, but also implausible because Irrelephant11 is usually a strong town read by people other than me

Also if I had a dollar for every time I said I was going to stop playing mafia but continued, I could afford groceries for another month

[Nauci]

gustavo

Irrelephant isn't Gustavo. Can't compare.

Understatement

[Nauci]

@Nauci: Baiting someone into exploding, especially when you know that player explodes and looks bad for it as town, is not great play and, is, in fact, really scummy play.

That's not what I did, nor is it what Nauci's talking about.

^

I thought the conversation was about shoshin blank voting and quick wagoning in the first 10 pages, not your back and forth

[Nauci]

Votecount 1.6

Shoshin(3)

~ teacher(1), Xtoxm(5), Performer(9)

Performer(3)

~ Shoshin(48), Irrelephant11(32), Nauci(17)

Xtoxm(1)

~ skitter30(18)

Varsoon(1)

~ the worst(48)


Not Voting (7): Creature(26), Keyser Söze(24), Not_Mafia(0), Mitillos(15), Saudade(15), Varsoon(35), AlmostNancy(38)

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-12-13 17:13:43)

MOD REMINDERS

I believe I have identified the issue I noticed with the last vote count; this one should have accurate post counts.

FLAVOR

Spoiler:

Since I feel strongly about performer and/or xtoxm, this temporarily clears teacher in my eyes

[Nauci]

Lol @ having 2 strong instant scum reads in a large game. Get ove4 yourself.

I'm glad you decided to respond to pressure with great contributions and sortable content that makes it easy to town read you

[Nauci]

Yeah, because anyone claiming strong reads this early in the game is more likely to just be

lying

.

Interesting you’d say “lying” as opposed to just wrong.

So, lemme get this straight. According to you, everyone who has claimed to have a strong read - either town or scum - is more likely to be straight-up lying than wrong.

Wow, this must be like the most scum sided game in the history of Mafia then.

Nice catch

[Nauci]

Lol @ having 2 strong instant scum reads in a large game. Get ove4 yourself.

I'm glad you decided to respond to pressure with great contributions and sortable content that makes it easy to town read you

Hey maybe don't be a prat like this.

Hey maybe I don't respond to condescension with acquiescence

[Nauci]

I think I've contributed plenty to be read thus far

Taking a break from this game because the rampant condescension and disdain is unproductive and infuriating and I'm just escalating into it

Pedit: Side note, I think I'll always be biased for skitter30 because it's so easy to understand and often mind meld her perspective

@mit: my "read" on teacher is wholly independent of his posts and rests on the idea that 3 scum wouldn't vote shoshin together and I don't scum read teacher as much as the others. My read on performer is for being extra self conscious about how others are reading him to the point of elaborate pg down explanations while ignoring the abundant other content that deserved commentary, and xtoxm for almost actively refusing to contribute much content. However, this is just on possible scenario and I don't have confident town reads anywhere near this early in the game

[Nauci]

xtoxm you should post more so that it is harder for nauci to mislynch you

Why are you so sure xtoxm is a mislynch? Is this based on meta?

I read this as Irrelephant's plea to xtoxm speaking from xtoxm's POV presuming that he's town and I'm "lying"

It's a very in character device for townrelephant and I'll have to read his more recent scum game(s) to determine if scumrelephant does it too

[Nauci]

Good point, I must @mit

But yeah, performer's posts all ping me

Like the "fixed" post where he wants to point out that people also wanted to policy him (? I don't know if that happened and no one else noticed or talked about it?). It's just hyper aware of what others have said about him when the rest of the posts make it clear that we weren't putting any weight into those posts. To me, this comes across as the actions of a guilty conscience/perspective at a much stronger degree than anything else I could consider alignment indicative this game, without tons of further research into various players' metas.

Also, while I haven't processed it into detailed explanation yet, I think of townrelephant as more like a bloodhound than an elephant. He checks under every rock and chases every possible lead and is never hesitant to get on wagons to pressure players in the interest of sortable content or chasing up a hunch. He's like the entire Mystery Van crew by himself, and exudes the town confidence of not feeling like he owes explanations of his actions until after his play is done.

P.S. I'm not sorry for the awful pun

[Nauci]

I spent 15 minutes looking for a gif like this last night before giving up

It's beautiful

[Nauci]

Oh I actually misread the performer "fixed" post (I thought he was saying there was a PL proposed on him instead of that he also denied a PL on varsoon)

It softens my stance a little but now I am more perplexed by the post than ever

[Nauci]

@Skitter: Doesn't matter what my thoughts are, I don't understand how other people play, and, therefore, can not come to an accurate read on them.
It's much better play for me to put my trust into Shoshin, who has never mislynched anyone before and who will lead us to certain victory.

ok i get what you're saying and where the frustration comes from (hi she wanted to mislynch in mylo there, remember?) but she's town so i'm just accepting it and moving on

i want to try to sort you tho so it would be helpful if you share your thoughts

I already shared a lot of my thoughts.
They were dumb and bad thoughts, but if you want to pick my brain, just ask me direct questions.

I don't know if you're keeping up the self deprecation because it's your thing or you're still using it to lash out about criticism

The non snarky/lashing out posts were pretty good and I agreed with the sentiments of questioning the number of strong town reads

[Nauci]

I don't know what you're talking about with PGE and arsons

It was all the result of the Camp Fire

I’m talking about it on a wider scale than just that Camp Fire in Butte County – in terms of the fires in CA. with so many wildfires even happening in cold weather, I , friends, and others, refuse to believe it's just "natural" - that's nonsense.
there was news about PGE messing things up too.

Is it really that hard to work out a system of having people monitoring and taking care of those areas , right? So poor management from PGE is 1 of the issues . They need to be held accountable (with actionable repercussions), JUST like the san bruno explosion . people's pets lost , lives lost , property lost, and so on. Imagine if your or my s.o. were lost due to the fire. It's outrageous for sources to say they're just natural causes.

-------
And uh - that was an actual mistake I made during rvs , which mitil made me aware of since I wasnt aware of.

Also FoS on tw, I don’t even understand his vote on me .

It's kind of baffling that you propose a policy lynch on me and when Irrel + The Worst + Performer deny it outright

Fixed.

I dont like policy lynching (and for that matter I dont believe in the notion of "too scummy to be scum")

Further self conscious posting that makes me suspicious af

What in the?? Self conscious, what are you talking about!???

sr added : nauci

Let's not talk get into a conversation about how federal/private forest land management or climate change works (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

[Nauci]

@Relly, I think I owe you this. Gonna dump it all down in one post on why I'm having bad feels with you:-

Expressing early/easy town reads (pocketing):

Creature is town

the worst is town, shoshin is town
skitter is more likely town than not
creature is probtown unless his claim is real, in which case lol

Because she's obvtown

Sheeping a vote/wagon (buddying):

Wanna wagon VOTE: mitillos with me though?

shoshin your point is fair but now who do I wagon

Too defensive of his own meta:

mitillos if you haven't figured it out I like wagons

So the scum game you found, I started the game as a lone Mafioso. I was later recruited by RCEnigma, so my unvote of him at the start of the game was uninformed (as uninformed as I am here) and not partner-indicative. Regardless, this is literally "I am cherry picking three of your games (excluding a bunch of them for no discernible reason - why would I play significantly different as IC, for example?) and you did this one thing as scum one time and you're doing it here; therefore, scum." Oh wait, also "an OMGUS vote". Do you believe in this read? You haven't tried to sell anyone on it. Are you just happy to feel like you can justify voting me, or?

Hard-defending 'town' - potential TMI'ing - pocketing attempt:

but I am here to say that Shoshin is scum .01% of the time here and you should find someone else to wagon

Vote me before shoshin, please - at least my role is negative utility

honestly I think the moral of the story is shoshin/almostnancy/theworst should be the unbreakable townblock for the entire game

{shoshin, the worst, almost nancy} always town

Keyser which of those three reads shouldn't be in the townblock?

the caveat on my reads is that I have townleaned friends who do not deserve it before because I like them

-if you're still talking about scumreading shoshin, lynch me. When I flip town, you are not allowed to place another vote on shoshin. This is @ the entire playerlist.

{shoshin, the worst, almost nancy} always town

This is my tin-foil hat suspicion:

oh nvm he's town
I super like 109, 150, 175 for town!him, though his paranoia of me is interesting and I'm curious to see where it will go

What's the best way to pocket someone suspicious of you...? Town read them.


Thoughts?

I've seen townrelephant exhibit these behaviors in every game I've seen townrelephant

He's infectiously cheerful to the point of paranoia driving pocketing as a personality

[Nauci]

I'm town reading mitillos and Nancy

And I think that the less active players need a chance to catch up so maybe Irrelephant and your town block can slow down a little so saudade/teacher/etc. can't just cry "too much to read I give up" and continue lurking maybe? I'm going to actually stop now for said reason.

[Nauci]

I've seen townrelephant exhibit these behaviors in every game I've seen townrelephant

He's infectiously cheerful to the point of paranoia driving pocketing as a personality

So you're sold he's outside his scum range here?

No. As I always say, his scum range is huge and he's good at it.

I'm just saying that all of those behaviors are within his town range.

Which his scum range largely encompasses.

Irrelephant requires far more observation to sort than that.

[Nauci]

gustavo

Irrelephant isn't Gustavo. Can't compare.

No one is like Gustavo except his other accounts

Saudade is like if Gustavo was finally driven off the brink and decided to become a supervillain

[Nauci]

Varsoon, why do you treat the game as if fighting the town read on shoshin or sarcastic shitposting about townreading shoshin are your only options?

Both are unproductive, and there are countless other ways to engage. Ignoring shoshin and her reads, what do you think of other players?

What are your thoughts on AlmostNancy? Specifically, on the Almost50 half, actually.

[Nauci]

Come on, Shoshin. You played both me and my naughty twin brother (AP).

Can you remind me when we played together?

First game: The one you were an Even Night Cop and got Vigged N1 and Flavor Leaf faked Masons with Scum Creature. I was the Town RB.

Second game: I was using my alt (AP) and I fake claimed Vengeful. (And now I'm second guessing myself if you really were in that game. It was modded by Skygazer)

If you're talking about the game I modded for that first one, you're confusing Sashaddin with Shoshin. Hilarious cluster of a game though.

[Nauci]

Performer wagon has played out

Why do you think this?

[Nauci]

@Varsoon

My experience with Shoshin is that she is always rather aggressive and asks very, very good questions of people which really press them to explain their line of thinking in a sortable way. She's like a math teacher constantly demanding every student show their work so even if they're wrong we can see how they got there or if they're right we know they weren't cheating off of someone else's post. I frequently disagree with her conclusions but her method has proven very valuable but also frequently lynchbaity because there's a stubbornness and frequent empty voting employed. You don't have to follow her conclusions but you should investigate her meta to see that this is in line with her town game.

[Nauci]

Nauci's posts actually ping me really hard as scum and I don't have much reason besides 'gut'.
I'm sure a better player can make a better case there if Nauci is actually scum, though.

I've been amused that while I've been more hesitant to hand out hard reads (which is my style but can look like scum keeping options open) and not even explaining the ones I've given, you were FOSing elsewhere.

The game I modded had like >600 Saudade posts so I see no reason to form strong cases for anything yet, with probably 50+ pages left to go on Day 1. My stance on performer and xtoxm is based on a very strong reaction to the few posts they have but I just don't have enough information this game to form strong opinions.

Keyser, Skitter30, and AlmostNancy—what are your thoughts on Performer's reaction to the scumreads on him? Or on Shoshin moving off the wagon?

@shoshin how have you only rolled scum once? Please tell TW and I of your secrets. Do you sacrifice virgins to RNGesus?

@varsoon I thought I was explicitly explaining that A: this behavior is within town-shoshin bounds even if it could be scum it shouldn't be the basis for a case, and B: we (the players I'm familiar with here) appreciate her for turning up evidence but do not sheep her reads

Everyone else: what are your thoughts on Mit's informed claim? Is it genuine? Could it have been faked? Would it be useful for scum to fake something like that?

[Nauci]

@Nauci: Yeah, dude, Shoshin's town, you don't have to convince me of that.
You can talk long and hard about the existence of your own spine this game, but until you prove it, I'm going to doubt you.

I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm even specifically saying that I've not been the towniest town who ever did town

But I'll get there

[Nauci]

Irrelephant and I manipulated teacher a lot when we rolled scum together in his first game on the site

Sorry bud

He was very calm, analytical, and effortful that game (again, apologies for framing you up as an IIOA patsy or something), and I expect him to do the same here when he finally gets in here. I don't have the same hopes for xtoxm who's been reading but not contributing, but I don't know him at all. Performer I've seen try hard but not sure what to make of his reactions here.

I'm admittedly hopeless at reading creature or NM, and likely Saudade, whose style amuses and perplexes me.

I'm fairly committed to my read that Mit isn't scum, but not crossing out the possibility that he's 3p of some sort.

[Nauci]

Ducky you're one of the most fun players on the site

You're excellent at combatting cynicism and fatigue and an expert at defusing tense situations by just being you

[Nauci]

Performer

Talk me through this one ducky

[Nauci]

VOTE: Keyser Söze

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[Nauci]

Doooo eeeet

[Nauci]

Hey that's not a theory

Tricksy keyser

[Nauci]

I missed the proper time for a reaction test lol

By the time I woke up from jetlag napping most of the game was asleep!

[Nauci]

700 seems towny to me but I don't know if I'll ever trust my read on Keyser again lol

Keyser xtoxm only has like 8-10 posts please check because it's the other prominent wagon

Okie I'm going back to sleep until my hives go away

Yes, yes I do have the worst medical luck

[Nauci]

Is NM alive it's been 2 days

I miss that quirky miltank

[Nauci]

700 seems towny to me but I don't know if I'll ever trust my read on Keyser again lol

Keyser xtoxm only has like 8-10 posts please check because it's the other prominent wagon

Okie I'm going back to sleep until my hives go away

Yes, yes I do have the worst medical luck

why do you think 700 is townie for him? did he recently fool you as scum or something?

No, I recently tunneled him while he was actually town

I need to reread xtox for why he's being voted.

I find this sort of post very scummy. I haven't looked into it before but I have a sense that scum talk about needing to "reread" a major wagon without weighing in a lot more often than town, and it's especially common when the scum is posting about a whole bunch of stuff yet avoiding the main wagon he should be focusing on.

But I'll meta Performer before coming back to him.

I like this and it's part of why I have bad feelings about Keyser (but also, there's a lack of real time interaction on that slot)

Still leaning scum on teacher and Performer

You know, I used to think creat was virtually auto town due to activity but that empty vote is alarming, and after that game where he was active in portions of it but slid by on a fake claim, I began realizing creat was developing his scum meta.

@shos xtox has been forgettable, so have others, so I've had to reread his iso. Can go with an xtox vote.
VOTE: xtoxm



--------

- town-Performer’s tone is just scummy (he’s never gonna be a mass town read player)
- ‘opportunistic’ jumping on wagons (here on the early wagons on Mitillos and Shoshin)
- is not methodical (he asks questions, but does he follow up with chasing answers, and do they help him?)
- lacks charisma (his drive and ‘energy’ is low this game)

I want to say I disagree with all of these

This post makes me super suspicious

VOTE: Performer

That unannounced L-1 is troubling to say the least.

^

This isn't LYLO, shoshin.
It doesn't work that way.

I'm talking about the player Not_Mafia, not some abstract notion about how mafia is supposed to work.

@tw: the way a50 is playing rn is actually reminding me of jungle republic

idk if that's because he isn't really into it yet or if he's using memes to appear active

I am actually letting Nancy play the leading role here and confining myself to culinary services and strategic support. She deserves to actually PLAY the game while feeling a bit more secure than she does on her own, don't you think?

Once I've got her to beat that insecurity I will play as an equal.

The way you talk about her is kind of bizarrely patronizing

---

Towny:

The worst
Mitillos

Town lean:

Irrelephant
Shoshin

Null:

Nancy
Skitter
NM
Xtoxm

Bad juju:

Keyser
Performer
The slot formerly known as teacher
Saudade

Keyser, buddy, come at me bro I want to see content from you

Case us already! (I assume Irrelephant11 is on board with this sentiment regardless of alignment)

I might move my vote to performer after a VC but for now I'm on mobile and haven't kept track

[Nauci]

I think I believe Irrelephant's claim

As scum he'd have been hard pressed to claim early because his instinct would be to keep all options open as long as possible, and probably get some idea of the claim space before doing anything. Townrelephant would definitely worry about tpr checking him

[Nauci]

I knew I forgot some people while haphazardly making that list at my ophthalmologist appointment lol

Varsoon is lean town

Creature is as utterly unreadable as ever to me, so null

Irrelephant's claim I was skeptical of so I had as lean town until the flavor claim had me thinking about it some more I am now more confident in it

I wonder if SKrelephant would do something like this though

Also if he is town I hope scum don't have a shot of bp and murder him anyway because I'd be a sad panda!

I need to case mitillos's scum games but the way he's been approaching this game just feels town to the core

[Nauci]

The bad juju for saudade is because he post >600 times in the game I modded where he was town and he's only popped in here once!

[Nauci]

I would like Nancy to stop towncasing herself now (if A50 is also doing that I would like that to stop as well)
Please and thank you <3

VOTE: Keyser

All of my thoughts on Keyser are based on his lack of posting—the grandstanding about having a wacky theory and never getting around to posting it.

I think that his alignment is only determinable with posts so I'm just throwing this one on the back burner for now.

What do you think of xtoxm's somewhat meatier new posts?

[Nauci]

@mewtaph it was as I had mentioned: a gut feeling from early pages because she wasn't as casual as I expected

I previously have mind melded with skitter's views and reactions to the point of creepiness so I just assume that if she's town I will do so again. Until then, she remains in my null group (the implication being that I've not had tons of mind melding thus far).

How far are you caught up?

[Nauci]

I would suggest you look elsewhere for today’s lynch Nauci x

That's quite literally what my post said I was doing

[Nauci]

I'm seriously starting to think creat is third party or scum.

That's an awfully specific conclusion.

How did you arrive there?

[Nauci]

Tw have you provided a read on Keyser? I forget if you did
I’m very curious what you think

I don't think so?
My read on him has nulled out quite a lot. I'm kinda waiting for him to follow through on stuff and I'm thinking maybe scum!Keyser's play is to throw shade in a roundabout way the way he has wrt you/Nauci and that his silence might be scum indicative but then the other part of me is also really wary that he kinda does what he wants when he wants so I might be barking up the wrong tree

The fact he looks wolfy as town doesn't exempt him from being scum obviously, I'm just like
╮(╯▽╰)╭

Thing is though

What I've read of scum Keyser is far from quiet. It's quite specifically loud with an agenda. So I believe the busy irl thing for now regardless of his alignment.

The thing that gave me pause was his focus on Irrelephant11 and I in a sea of interesting things to comment on.

[Nauci]

also I feel bad because I'm starting to get into this habit of clumsily tunnelling Nauci every time she doesn't Heavily Effortpost as town but my read there is indeed a lot weaker than I want it to be, and I'm curious if he's getting pinged by a couple of things in her posting which have given me pause

it's probably kinda stupid to say but I don't actually read you/Nauci as aligned at all so also very interested in where that's meant to be going

I don't think I ever go into effortposting early on when there aren't enough posts from anyone to form a fluid case and mindset and narrative to me

Also I've been interacting more live from mobile thus far and thought the more real time posting versus walls would be easier to read if anything

[Nauci]

I mentally recategorized your slot from one that needed pressure and was struggling to fake town to one that might do better to generate actual content if given room to breathe

[Nauci]

which posts do you classify as 'meatier'?

also i'm not entirely sure how to read you tbh

a lot of the things you say i just don't feel like are hard to fake, if that makes sense? like you make sense and have decent arguments and opinions but i don't know if that makes you *townie*

i only got over this last game when you pr-claimed so idk how to sort you here really

I consider posts that are more mindset revealing or contain more content/viewpoints about the game on a relative basis "meatier." I thought his early posts gave me next to no insight while the subsequent few caused my views to shift as previously mentioned.

I'm not super concerned with being town read by people (in early days) so long as you all interact with me to solve the game, tbh. I think some players here will have an easier time reading me but so long as my contributions produce useful content from and to me, I think I can inch the game towards victory and I'll get enough content to put up high analysis posts and even paranoia driven big cases like I did to blackvoid and Keyser (but really, those 2 games taught me that scum are perfectly capable of high effort but will fall into the middle of the pack when it comes to passion and WIM if they make it towards the end and it's increasingly hard to fake game solving)

[Nauci]

I'm waiting for a VC to move my vote just in case performer is in -2 territory (or for posts from him to change my mind)

But his posts feel the most feigned to me out of everyone's and have consistently stayed in that spot

Side note: every time ducky has been easy to read was a result of him being pressured somewhat so I'm feeling a little paranoid about having thrown him the early town read

Irrelephant, how are you reading skitter? I think I need help on this one.

[Nauci]

One's gameplay can vary from game to game for different reasons though, so do keep that in mind

VOTE: Performer

[Nauci]

Huh? Come again? Us or Nauci - re: the bolded.

That's absolutely hilarious. I bold-faced read his post as talking about you, never even crossed my mind he'd said Nauci instead.

Nauci is my REAL hydra partner - hard claim. A50 just hacked into my account.

I forgot the account password and asked a50 for help

[Nauci]

I keep reading this a50 thing as an entertaining point that's holding her focus at an off proportion

I'm used to skitter30 reacting to little things all over the place so it almost felt like this struggle was an excuse to not look at all those little things that usually help me sort her mindset

[Nauci]

That's one committed hacking

[Nauci]

5 AM paranoia comin' in hot

Irrelephant could have been another informed player that there isn't a PGO

Though that'd be very specific and overly advantageous information I don't think Krazy would throw out

I don't know how well others' flavors and roles match but Rory swan ought to have been a gunsmith instead of pho is why I'm paranoid

[Nauci]

Right now, I'm willing to town read {the worst, Shoshin, Varsoon, Nauci, skitter30, AlmostNancy} with reservations. Not completely settled on other reads - I will say I'm reading Varsoon v Shoshin as TvT and I am inclined to believe Irrelphant11's claim.

How come you don't have Irrelephant in the town group if you're inclined to believe his claim??

[Nauci]

5 AM paranoia comin' in hot

Irrelephant could have been another informed player that there isn't a PGO

Though that'd be very specific and overly advantageous information I don't think Krazy would throw out

I don't know how well others' flavors and roles match but Rory swan ought to have been a gunsmith instead of pho is why I'm paranoid

Scratch this, the sample PM wasn't flavor/role matched. I'm silly.

It's just that I don't think I should have as many town leans as I do so I keep raking back over them for who doesn't belong in the picture...

But then again some games have taught me that it can be just that easy

[Nauci]

Mew deviated from hivemind by explicitly throwing me in a town bucket but without providing any specifics as to why

Mew, can you list at least a couple of concrete and specific reasons for town reading everyone in that list? And explain why irrelephant isn't when you believe his claim?

Also, do you have any scum reads? Or analysis of the xtoxm or performer wagons forming?

[Nauci]

I'm on board with this pressure VOTE: mewtaph

[Nauci]

I think there would have to be a big reason for her being scum for me to consider her as a contender for being scum at the moment and I don't think that really exists atm.

Like what does this sentence even say about Nauci
“There would have to be a big reason for her to be scum for me to consider her scum at the moment, and I don’t think that exists at the moment”
Say it out loud and you’ll have like the definition of a tautology, and you’ll also really find yourself living *at the moment*
I don’t disagree that Nauci is townish but it’s not because *theres not a big reason to call her scum at the moment*

Nothing mewtaph has posted reads

real

so far
VOTE: mewtaph prove me wrong

Man if you really are a town pgo then we really lucked out

[Nauci]

I found Mew's catch up posts to be nice but much more hollow tbh, so I'm more inclined to go there

Shoshin do you have a different reaction to those posts? What about performer?

[Nauci]

I think Mew's town.

Why?

[Nauci]

Who are his buddies?

I don't think he's scum
But if you do
That's for you to figure out.
I think we're much more likely to hit scum if we focus on people who'd have a lot to gain from an Xtoxm lynch.
Folks that haven't had much interactions so far and are being generally mid-range townread.

What's your lynchpool right now?

Mine, for day 1, is within: performer, mewtaph, creature, not_mafia, xtoxm

I think that Keyser, AN, and skitter30's alignments will become much clearer over time (this also applies to xtoxm but less so because I don't have a grasp on reading him)

[Nauci]

Xtoxm's posts on Shoshin felt scummy to me in an instinctive way but then I thought: would scum here barely backed off the precipice of being lynched stir up drama by trying to pick a fight with Shoshin (with almost invariably turns up alignment indicative posting)? I'm more inclined to agree with varsoon that it's town xtoxm misreading a Shoshinism

Varsoon: why not mewtaph? Why get on Keyser now, instead of when Irrelephant and I tried to pressure there, even though nothing has really changed about the slot and he continues to say he'll engage Soon™?

[Nauci]

I'm feeling the same paranoia about skitter30 that she felt about me in AP haha

Are we mind melding because I agree with so much of what she said in that post, or did she pick up Irrelephant and I's existing sentiments and push it further on a mislynch agenda? Hhhhhmmmmmm

I do think that skitter30/mew wouldn't be scum together (but skitter30/xtoxm or skitter30/performer isn't ruled out yet)

I hope mew makes some serious contributions because the existing set of posts are all the precise sort of wishy washy hand wringing that feels like scum struggling to overcome existing knowledge to case people

[Nauci]

Does anyone know what Irrel's history of fake-claiming is?

When Irrelephant and I rolled scum together his first game here in a newbie, he definitely considered fake claiming

But we knew the setup and claim space and he agonized over whether or not he should do it for a long time and mapped out all the possibilities and consequences and never ended up doing it

Also, whenever we've been in a game together since, my paranoia about him resulted in me checking him as tpr or someone else checking him since

That's the context I have for believing his claim

[Nauci]

Right, I forgot about safeclaims.

Oh shit

I read the rules thinking scum got fake flavors provided, not full roles AND flavors

Shiiiiiiiit

[Nauci]

mewtaph replaced saude

Mewtaph replaced teacher

Saudade hasn't been replaced yet

[Nauci]

How am I meant to not scum read shoshin here. Going into this game all I see I about her are people worshipping her town game, and herself boasting about the perfection of her town game.

And then she death tunnels me.

So given the knowledge of my own alignment.

Do I respect her reputation, therefore indicating she's tunnelling me for a mislynch.

Or disregard her reputation and call her a townbeard.

Please explain how I not scum read shosin here.

Shoshin's town play is excellent because it forces people to post alignment indicative stuff with really good questioning and pressure

I don't know if I'd consider her actual reads super stellar (and she's normally rather stubborn about them, right or wrong)

Sorry shoshin

[Nauci]

mewtaph replaced saude

Mewtaph replaced teacher

Saudade hasn't been replaced yet

Then who did NM replace?

...Nobody

He signed up for the game but didn't post in the first 2.5 days

It's too early in the game for us to be this lost!

[Nauci]

i mean she can be obvtown, doesn't mean i think her read accuracy is particularly great or that she should be lolsheeped or anything

Her reads are a helluva a lot better than yours this game.

I can barely remember what they are

@skitter can you post a reads list?

[Nauci]

I'm considering bumping mitillos down a little for taking his universal town read and bouncing for almost 2 days now

[Nauci]

not_mafia, creature} - weakest tier of townreads, least confident in these
{you, keyser} = null/idk

I think this might be town skitter30 just because town skitter30 refuses to ever town read town me

[Nauci]

Shoshin's drive to prod and engage with other players

I feel like most of us who have praised her were specific about these qualities so xtoxm's angle made me bristle a lot

[Nauci]

i mean he said he'd be busy irl, it's not like he just straight up and disappeared

and he also gave a timeframe for when he should return - monday iirc

Oops I missed that post

[Nauci]

And varsoon has steeped your every vote this game and says you never mislynch. And others have steeped you too

So one of your strongest townreads is the player who sheeps scum's every move and props up scum as worthy of sheeping?

A+

My record speaks for itself and it's not just Labyrinth. In my initial newbie game, I called scumteam on D1 and was named MVP. In American Presidents, I called scumteam on D2 after which I was nightkilled. Town went on to win. I played a key role in winning Supp Mafia, pushing lynches on scum from D2 to the last day phase, when we won. I lynched scum in the recent Epic game, after which scum used their sole kill in the whole game on me. I've won all my town games on this site except the one that you were in, where again I told you not to mislynch Irrelephant (you did), told town not to mislynch Reck (they did), and then got screwed by Nos trolling.

You really need to get over yourself.

This is the definition of boasting

That's not this game. WTF?

You’re right, I just ISO’d you and couldn’t find this quote anywhere in this game.

Click the post number to see the origin thread

Side note: quoting that one has to be rather deliberately done and not an oops moment so make of that what you will

She often makes unreadable players readable, too, in unique ways.

I was feeling weird about Shoshin because I thought she hadn't done that as much as I expected (whereas I previously would read her posts in games as frequently causing lots of players to re-evaluate and answer difficult questions) but the interaction with xtoxm is a pretty good example of what we all mean. Shoshin puts the screws to people in ways that make their alignment blatantly clear, even if she's wrong with her initial assessment of their alignment, and even though it frequently gets her scum read by her target. I think this pressure has made xtoxm answer to far more telling questions than a scum xtoxm would have liked. Not sure what to make of the responses yet.

and her moving elsewhere im happy to UNVOTE: .

It's true that I should be putting more stock in my top town reads all townreading shosin.

Hhhhhmmmmmm

This post feels bad to me. Like an after-the-fact forced recalculation of disingenuous positions. Not to mention Irrelephant was in the bottom 3.

VOTE: xtoxm

[Nauci]

Xtom's a bullshitter.

Xtom's a bullshitter.

Yep, and he all of a sudden, conveniently unvotes you and to add a meaglol to that, he thanks one of his apparently strongest scumreads for providing “perspective”.

All (back) aboard the xtoxm train?

[Nauci]

I shifted my view of Keyser like 20 pages ago and wanted to scrutinize mewtaph until Keyser returned

But the xtoxm interactions have, to me, revealed a very shaky ground for all of the reads he presented that makes his reads list seem like it was completely bullshitted. He was given space to interact like I promised, and the result is this read. I'm not even close to alone in calling out the inconsistency here, so why focus on me for this switch?

In addition, your change of heart was accompanied by a lot of posts that showed your thinking and followed the advice of many of your town reads as well as direct interactions and your own experience, while xtoxm called out the cue of someone he thought was scum with shoshin...

[Nauci]

Actually, the entire re-focus to Xtoxm over Key makes me very uncomfortable about Nauci.

I'm confident Nauci's town, but I would like to see a wagon build on Key. I think competing wagons on any of my bottom three scumreads would benefit this game a lot.

I'd be happy to go there if he was actually actively posting

Or are you saying that it'll take a real wagon to get him to even post?

I'm used to Keyser being a force of nature in games regardless of alignment so I just assume he's actually busy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Nauci]

creature, not_mafia,

Refresh my memory, why are they in your lynch pool?

POE (I can't read them, so I can't town read them, and my read is unlikely to improve later in the game)

[Nauci]

I feel like there are a several misunderstandings in your posts, performer (e.g. varsoon has only ever sarcastically said shoshin is 100% accurate)

Also I don't remember Irrelephant saying what Rory Swann's job was? (Fwiw, he was an engineer who created all of the weaponry for the protagonist, hence why I thought gunsmith would have been appropriate)

I'm having a hard time parsing some of what you said

[Nauci]

Yeah I gave up on it pretty quickly but I was really paranoid that one time I woke up at 5 am

[Nauci]

I think there would have to be a big reason for her being scum for me to consider her as a contender for being scum at the moment and I don't think that really exists atm.

Like what does this sentence even say about Nauci
“There would have to be a big reason for her to be scum for me to consider her scum at the moment, and I don’t think that exists at the moment”
Say it out loud and you’ll have like the definition of a tautology, and you’ll also really find yourself living *at the moment*
I don’t disagree that Nauci is townish but it’s not because *theres not a big reason to call her scum at the moment*

Nothing mewtaph has posted reads

real

so far
VOTE: mewtaph prove me wrong

Man if you really are a town pgo then we really lucked out

how did we luck out if we have a town pgo?
this is like saying we lucked out if there was a claimed gunsmith.

Irrelephant is a great player and this would mean he's not getting NKed which to me is a boon

[Nauci]

Is Key a force of nature as scum? I feel like he's much more aggressive as town, in a way that he hasn't been in this game, even when he's been here.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=70754&user_select[]=25845

This is the Keyser scum game I'm most familiar with, and my impression of him was that he practically played puppeteer on both town and his teammates, swooping them out from dangerous positions into a scum flawless sweep

I did a good bit of Keyser game skimming for my last game and I don't remember any case of him being just absent

[Nauci]

Mew, I realize your style is against posting specifics, but in all the time you spent catching up, were there any moments where you read a post or move from someone that stood out to you? From anybody of any alignment indication. What posts did you think highlighted someone's motivations that made them strong town?

What do you think of xtoxm's read list vs reaction to shoshin/Irrelephant? Do you think it makes sense that varsoon could have made him change his mind when both shoshin/Irrelephant were in his scummiest reads?

Can you link me a scum and a town game that you think best represents your playstyle?

[Nauci]

I saw this as scum-Relly connecting me to his scum-partner (i.e pre-flip association theory he can return to later).

What does this mean

Whose scum partner

[Nauci]

Somehow Nauci was now above me in his reads list - how did Nauci get here? You still didn't sound that confident previously (unless you can show me in your posts). Wasn't I supposed to be the townie between me and Nauci..? Now I'm relegated alongside Creature I don't think the way Nauci magically moved up your readslist was genuine.

I post a lot while you were more absent

Seemed pretty clear to me

The rest I'll let him respond to or get to from a laptop

[Nauci]

1313 is fine, potentially towny
I’m sad Keyser isn’t really here though
It’s probably NAI I guess. I hope he catches up and/or real-times soon

What are the odds of Varsoon/xtoxm team? Low? Or are they jsut forgoing using daychat?

It always bugs me when I don't recall Daychat being in game from the OP and someone mentions it like this.

Irrelephant mentioning daychat in this way is towny for reasons I'll explain from laptop

[Nauci]

i mean like five different people told him about her, including me, you, tw, and varsoon; iirc he's town reading all three of us to some extent or another; it's not like it was *only* his scumread who gave this opinion and he was listening to him exclusively or anything

like changing his mind after like five people tell him why he's wrong makes sense; that in particular doesn't feel forced to me

He didn't thank the rest of you by name

[Nauci]

Not_Mafia is also scum

I actually agree here and would be fine voting there today

But yes, performer did do many things

How do you feel about his self meta

[Nauci]

I saw this as scum-Relly connecting me to his scum-partner (i.e pre-flip association theory he can return to later).

What does this mean

Whose scum partner

You and Relly

That is a far enough out theory that I'm having a really hard time grasping any of the how or the why

[Nauci]

Mewtaph only had 1 predecessor and he only made 1 post

[Nauci]

Ohhhhh

Wow I read that note as in the mods are in the midst of replacing saudade

Lmao

[Nauci]

Relly, stop name dropping me please.

Are you trying to sort me or put unnecessary empty pressure on me? You’re not helping me re-evaluate your slot either.

Let me read and post in the next 4 days. I won’t force out content for the sake of it. Then you can decide whether to lynch me. I’m already the lead wagon (I’m not hiding or avoiding the game) you don’t need to keep pushing me as ‘Keyer is scum lurking’, that just makes me turn off.

Surely there must be an active player to look at right now.

Thanks.

This is such a weird post

Thus far your small collection of posts have been so weird I can't figure out what mindset would have come up with them

Inb4 3p

[Nauci]

Lerf/AlmostNancy/Nauci I think you need to scumcase Xtoxm or move your votes

I don't understand this request

Xtoxm and mew are the two players I have scum cased while waiting for Keyser and saudade-slot to make content

Where are you lynching today when you just eliminated all of the current people wagons and have your vote on a basically empty just replaced in slot!?!

Like you're not showing signs of scum worst but this almost feels like classic scum signs to not be able to scum case anybody O_o

And I don't understand how you're so sure xtoxm is town that you'd sooner go after varsoon!?!

[Nauci]

Creature, this applies to you too. Too close to deadline to be making fun of existing wagons or joking about being wagoned or self voting. Who are you scum reading?

Also

Scum on this site self votes a lot

[Nauci]

so I also think you’re a little overdefensive here

I feel like my main lesson last game was that over defensiveness is an NAI emblem of normal Keyser posting

[Nauci]

VOTE: Kokichi

What's the point of this?

[Nauci]

What's the point of this?

I don't want to lynch Key today.

So that ruled out everything but the freshly replaced slot?

[Nauci]

kinda reminds me of myself.

:3

I've not really felt like being on my PC for most of this game (like I previously said, I've been super burned out) so I haven't been doing my pedantic wall posts at all

I had actually actively decided to play a more shoshin style with asking questions when I see inconsistencies or opportunities to make someone explain their way of thinking, instead of just big walls of my personal reactions to what other people are doing

This actually feels like the same amount of effort but it is more fun and accomplishes more while looking like less effort I think

So I take that as a compliment!

[Nauci]

again, i'm not getting scum!creature here and i don't think scum!creature really votes himself like that like ever? so i'm not really following the bolded; it feels like shade to me

Idk if it applies here at all

Just, in the game I modded which was totally nuts, I think all 3 scum at some point self voted. Can't remember if creature did; I think the predecessor for his slot did

But I was so sure that scum would lose that game because it was so obvious early on that all scum were frustrated with trying to fake reads and kinda self voted flippantly while basically lurking as well

Like the game taught me that sometimes scum aren't so devious and cunning as we think they can be (obviously this is a person by person thing) and sometimes they're just blatantly scumming

Also wrt the "classic" scum signs, I guess all of my games on this site taught me that scum very frequently struggle to scum read players they know are town. This is also biased by the fact that this is my main struggle when I most unfortunately roll scum.

[Nauci]

I'm just gonna come out and say it because the more I think about this the more silly it feels: Shoshin how sure are you feeling about Varsoon being town? his early blowup at you felt like a caricature of his ragetowngame which I'm pretty sure he could emulate as scum, and it seems like a really intuitive way to pocket you and work his way into the townblock.

It's all of the posts he has done outside of the shoshinteractions that have him in my town pile

Despite the angry reaction he was still managing to output well thought out game analysis pretty frequently

[Nauci]

If any of my top townreads (Irrelpehant, the worst, or Nauci) strongly townread any of the playeres in my poe (Kokichi, Xtom, Performer, Key, Not_Mafia, Mew, Skitter, Mitillos), then I'd remove them from the poe. I think if we work collectively, we should be able to narrow this down for a very high probability lynch.

I thought that Mitillos's posts had a clarity of thought that was very blatantly town to me. I felt as sure about that town read when he was active as I did about reundo in watchmen wanted.

[Nauci]

At least I can say I was the first to put it down in writing

Pretty sure TW has been expressing said sentiment for a lot longer, actually

[Nauci]

@Skitter: Hahaha, I learned my lesson about dropping hints and crumbs. Just gonna be forthright with info from now on in games and see how that goes.
Real talk though he would have had to confirm via PM before mod confirmed him in-thread, so I'm curious what the delays were but yeah the obvious explain is that he was just not around until now.

Yeah but unless the mod confirmed his confirmation immediately why wouldn't he be afk in the interim?

[Nauci]

like i guess what's bothering me is that these feel like very general scumtells that don't really feel to me like they apply to these specific situations

Which is precisely why I said I wasn't seeing scum worst at all, just generic scum signs (which is why I still town read him)

[Nauci]

I had the same sentiment as Irrelephant about the amount of time we have left so I spent a few pages trying to herd people onto viable wagons or to begin being decisive about their reads

But I do understand that this game has had a paranoia-inducing number of towny players and a dearth of scummy posting (shoutouts to lurking into replacing out or just not posting at all \o/)

Like I legit scum read NM right now but for some reason every time I've ever tried to lynch there on day 1 people mock the idea/me and dismiss it entirely (and he's been scum more often than not in my games with him)

[Nauci]

Sorry, I need to jump back into your ISO asap because I'm clearly misremembering some stuff. Can you quote your NM scumcase?

I hadn't cased him yet

I voted him at some point and creature was dismissive of the idea of lynching there d1

But NM has barely post at all and while he's not frequently quiet, an afk NM has equated to a scum NM allowing town to destroy each other in the past

[Nauci]

Not_Mafia feels town to me. I'd rather lynch Performer.

Why to both of those things

Performer got quiet again

P.S. can we all take a moment to appreciate how great it's been to have this many players in a game interacting in real time

[Nauci]

It's okay almost Nancy isn't a slot that needs to read a towncase on me

Also Irrelephant that was a good post and not just in a pocketing manner

I think you've got a pretty good read on me!

Yeah I silently die of awkwardness as scum and have to put in major hours to sound as nonchalant as I do as town. Rolling scum absolutely devastates my WIM and I literally cannot interact in real time like this

[Nauci]

his posts, when he made them, felt kinda good. but he isn't really around and this is never a read i'm confident on; so like slight townlean all around and like i don't want to settle for him day1, but i always want him resolved before lylo

When I said I'd half ass this game I meant I'm not going to grab a laptop and open 21 pages of tabs looking to find all the times that I've seen people have these vague town reads on NM's 43 words contributed to a game

But I swear I've seen it happen several times

[Nauci]

ellitell

A wot

[Nauci]

Cracking wallpost from Relly that makes me feel 60% better about Relly and 10% better about Nauci

It'd be awfully easier to sort you if you had more interactions with somebody other than Irrelephant and I, buddeh

[Nauci]

Do you want me to towncase Xtoxm?

I do

[Nauci]

Do you want me to towncase Xtoxm?

I do

After Mewtaph has a go scumcasing him I'll consider it

Deal

[Nauci]

Side note, performer's due for a proddin'

[Nauci]

That kerfuffle got me to re skim xtoxm's ISO. Before the Irrelephant bit I was null reading him and scum reading mewtaph. I'm not super happy with either but actually not opposed to pressuring mewtaph to give more specific and less "holistic" reads. I'm also surprised mewtaph didn't comment on Irrelephant's post about me after all that talk about hollistically tosnreading me.

VOTE: mewtaph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Nauci]

What a productive page we have here, my contributions excepted

[Nauci]

Well I guess my comment is now hopefully a prophecy

[Nauci]

I dunno, I’m not really seeing how Mewtaph is scum here.

Usually when someone posts as many words as he has, I'm able to practically see the gears and wheels going inside their head

But instead it's largely murky despite the number of words

It's almost the opposite of my feelings on Mitillos's posts

[Nauci]

I foind the move on xtoxm to be 50/50 likelihood of opportunistic scum vs town trying to pressure a main wagon though

[Nauci]

he's doing the exact same thing as Xtoxm

What thing is that?

[Nauci]

VOTE: performer for now

[Nauci]

I was giving performer a lot of room just because I completely do not understand his sense of logic and reason and assumed it'd bias me against him but even with that, I've seen Town performer play with far more will

[Nauci]

I’m not willing to fight to lynch xtoxm right now

I feel like every time I scum read some posts, someone has prostrated themselves in front of that wagon, begging us to stop

So like

Where the hell is scum lol

Do I need to exhaustively go through my town reads or are we going to get somewhere day 1 and see what the flip brings us

[Nauci]

At some point I'm going to stop listening to my town reads' town reads

[Nauci]

As an aside if I’m bored enough later I’ll maybe try to make a chart of everyone we’ve collectively considered lynching and who defended each of them (whether subtly or loudly)

I like this; I was trying to mentally keep track but it was becoming a mess

Shoshin and tw don't want to lynch NM

Varsoon and tw doesn't want to lynch xtoxm

Shoshin townreads mew I think?

Lots of people don't want to lynch Keyser today, myself included

Kokichi was given tons of "just replaced in" room even with the impending deadline

I wish I were home right now to case people but I'm in for a 3 hour dentist session \o/

Irrelephant, what are your thoughts on Keyser focusing on us so much of day 1? It feels so weird to me but obviously I no longer have confidence in my Keyser reads

[Nauci]

Going through performer's ISO but soon the dental work begins

[Nauci]

I can't shake the discomfort of making it this far without having really town read skitter30 yet so I'll review that slot next

I read performer and xtoxm and realized that I misinterpreted a few things while interacting live; I'm not as totally lost about their trains of thought as I previously thought and will have to look at this game with really fresh eyes as I'm feeling a bit puzzled

[Nauci]

In Heroes, Kokichi had no clue what was going on in that game and hadn’t been paying attention but despite that, he still nevertheless managed to get a couple of reads in. So, dunno about Performer, don’t really want to vote Mewtaph. Probably between Xtoxm and Kokichi rn but I’ll vote Performer to avoid a no lynch.

Can you link me that game?

[Nauci]

The "Rory Swann is an engineer" thing could easily have come from a scumchat as others have mentioned.

Would that imply he's in scum chat with Irrelephant and thought Irrelephant said it in here

[Nauci]

You're essentially telling me to do the scumhunting for you.

this is the most ridiculous attempt at shade thus far in the game

Assuming skitter30 and mitillos didn't say anything dumber in the walls I skipped for now

[Nauci]

TWTBAW

You've surpassed me at buzzwords

[Nauci]

Xtoxm(2) ~ Performer(68)

Performer why is your vote still here

Can't you articulate it

[Nauci]

OMGUS again, this time on Relly.

Calling this one a misrep because he specifically said it was for naked voting, where the behavior is more important than the target

Not necessarily a malicious one though

[Nauci]

i didn't super like that people were voting you for disappearing or whatever when you said you were going to be gone for the weekend

I keep forgetting people's away claims but I think it's because of the much shorter game days + random bouts of 7 hour "naps" from still struggling with jetlag that's compressing or stretching my perception of irl time and understanding of weekdays vs weekends

[Nauci]

Honestly don't understand how tw or nauci are voting me - was it tone & poe ?

POE mostly for me

[Nauci]

VOTE: kokichi

I'm rather unsatisfied with the new posts but would collapse back into a different wagon if necessary for EOD

[Nauci]

perhaps not as active as this game is actually going but i'm not sure that's a reasonable expectation in the first place

My perception of this game is so distorted

Like AN has 348 posts but I've little very little insight into their thoughts somehow

Creature has over 100 posts yet I can barely remember him in the game

Jetlag in the winter from NA-Asia is awful; I've felt like the Before in an anti depressant commercial

[Nauci]

@Kokichi: Nice misrep there. I am doing my own scumhunting already, and I will be looking into them, as I mentioned in my wallpost. I am more likely to townread someone if they scumhunt (without fallacies). As for the whole "I joke as everything" and "everything is NAI from me", those are not NAI thoughts or posts. They are scummy, because they read like preemptive attempts to deflect scumreads on you. Speaking of misrepresentations, I just remembered another reason for scumreading you: post 1511. Shoshin is saying that she is townreading everyone not mentioned in that partial quote you made of post 1505 and that *all* scum are in those 8 players, yet you turned it to there being *some* scum in there.

How is it a misrep? You said that you were suspect of AlNan but said that I should keep it up, instead of you prying into them more yourself.

Seemed blatantly obvious to me that he was saying you need to scum hunt more in order to be sorted/town read. Why do you interpret scum hunting as zero sum, like asking you to do it implies he won't?

VOTE: kokichi

I'm rather unsatisfied with the new posts but would collapse back into a different wagon if necessary for EOD

That's nice. So who do you actually scumread? Top 3. Because it sounds like you're just voting me for weak reasonings based on your post, and your willingness to swing elsewhere.

My willingness to swing elsewhere means I will compromise to achieve a lynch but you're my top scum read that I'd like to eat rope today

That's so self evident that I can't tell if this is deliberate misrepresentation or bizarre mindset

[Nauci]

Mitilos, shos, irre, an

I thought that NM votes were on sensible wagons for pressure at the time so I upgraded him, I may be over thinking that one

Can you give at least 1 sentence on each scum read as to what you think they did was scummy and why scum motivations make sense for it

Also, NM plays like tea leaves and hopes everyone interprets it with wishful thinking; I've never found it possible to discern if he was voting to contribute to a wagon for pressure or gunning for a mislynch, and I don't see an alignment correlation for when he votes early versus when he lolhammers

[Nauci]

Top 3.

To answer this request though

You're my top scum read and the rest is a pool of people from Poe + reads that haven't eliminated themselves from being scum read but require further analysis of associations to determine which would be scum together, within

Performer
Xtoxm
Keyser
NM
Creature

AN, skitter30, and maybe others are not in my never-scum pile

[Nauci]

Are you implying that you were expecting me to say something dumb in my wall?

Lmao no

I just couldn't be 100% certain that was the shadiest thing in the thread because I hadn't read those parts yet

[Nauci]

Happy cakeday creature

Who's scum

[Nauci]

We've been playing musical wagons with the same POE pool for a week and I don't know if anyone truly feels like it's gotten much of anywhere

Time to reassess new things and places

[Nauci]

Also Nauci why haven't you commented on the miscommunication I posted about my vote that you didnt like

The Mitillos one? I'm lost

[Nauci]

Regarding who Rory is , I did a wiki lookup on Rory & that's how I found out.

We're not questioning how you know what Rory did.

It's about the fact that you said Irrelephant said it, when he hadn't.

[Nauci]

tw

hey that's a new one

explain por favor

[Nauci]

Spoiler: For Irrelephant's Eyes Only!

Skim Open 732 and tell me if you see what I see?

[Nauci]

Skitter, what are your thoughts on the wagons and their momentum this game?

[Nauci]

If you're suggesting I'm scum with skitter and we're playing this way to distance

Is this related to my post or a separate tangent o_o

[Nauci]

I dunno how good I feel about lynching Kokichi

Well you've got 2 days to figure it out

[Nauci]

Also Nauci why haven't you commented on the miscommunication I posted about my vote that you didnt like

The Mitillos one? I'm lost

Yep. That was the basis of your read on me right?

It was a part of it

I'm not super unhappy or super happy with going with anybody in my POE pool so I'm very much in the midst of chasing down new leads but pessimistic about whether or not there's enough time left today to do much with anything I find

[Nauci]

I'm not super unhappy or super happy with going with anybody in my POE pool so I'm very much in the midst of chasing down new leads but pessimistic about whether or not there's enough time left today to do much with anything I find

To quote you. "You have two whole days to figure it out"

The pessimism isn't about whether or not I can chase things down. It's just too late to start a new wagon, I'm pretty sure.

I guess that means I should throw my efforts entirely on the existing set of lynchable players. Doh

[Nauci]

It's just too late to start a new wagon, I'm pretty sure.

How is 2 days too late? Are you new here?

If I were I'd try it

But I've tried several times before and always was told it was crazy to try so close to deadline and deemed vanity wagons

I probably was a solo vote at the end of day 1 more often than not but I'm not sure if we can afford that here with how disparate town has been

Irrelephant, how's the list tracking who townreads who (within the Poe pool) coming along?

[Nauci]

it's hovering at 4 votes, what lack of resistance do you think is happening here?

Yeah I also wondered about that one

Every wagon has had resistance

[Nauci]

i mean the first time around it was built

Pretty sure the first time around Varsoon lept in front of the wagon to push him out of the way soooooo

[Nauci]

Can we lynch Irrelephant pls?

Did he say the w word

[Nauci]

Now you've done it

VOTE: buzzwordephant[/]

Gosh darn it

But seriously

I'm going to need someone to write up a guide on how to read NM someday because I'm not seeing anything out of nm's scum range

[Nauci]

i still support a mew wagon btw

Because of that post or because of other ones?

[Nauci]

And if so, which?

[Nauci]

Hmm, tough decision between them.

I'd say exclude Mew. Lynch between the other three.

It would definitely be helpful to know how everyone sorts between these three, from most scummy to least.

NM
Kokichi

Performer
Mewtaph

But I always get told d1 nm lynches are really bad or something even when he's scum read

But I think he's been scummy and town is particularly stumped today otherwise

[Nauci]

he didn't just pop in to agree with someone else's

Can you quote me a couple examples of this from his recent posting

[Nauci]

uh the quote i quoted when i said i supported his lynch

So you're saying that he only made those long posts when being voted and otherwise only these small quips?

(I'm currently too busy to confirm this so I'll let mew defend himself if it's inaccurate; I'm just trying to nail down your sentiment here)

[Nauci]

I have a question for mewtaph: What do you think of your predecessors? Had you been playing as a different slot, how would you have read them?

Spoiler:

Ho Lee Crud, this is definitely going to be a mistake if we are on page 8 already. But its such a good list.

@Nauci, nice to see you again and welcome back from your trip. Just the last game Elephant was making a joke about how weird it was to be in a game without you screaming about how good he is as scum.

@TW, performer always feels wolfy to me too, but I did not get any real vibes from the entrance here.

VOTE: Shoshin

The first sentence suggests he's going to have a hard time keeping up with the game.
Seems like a natural entrance might ask the worst or Nauci for how natural it seems to them if I'm feeling desperate enough for prelim reads. Observation of Performer seems like a mildly town intent in this post.
Pops in after people are paying attention to Performer - imperfect timing in terms of being noticed, but I don't think they aren't playing to be invisible so checks out for now.
Given the opening comment, I would keep an eye on how their activity shapes out in their ISO, but otherwise, I'm not compelled to think about this post twice.
Closer (and biased) examination shows that enthusiasm conflicting with not being able to keep up is a pretty decent combination hard to maintain as scum. I would probably start by giving a slight town lean for this if I analysed this super deeply for some reason outside of this slot. There are some scummy points to it as well - main one is that Performer comment is kinda slowing the game down but not really, and also the timing of the post. I would look to seeing if it all checks out in the end.

this was the last post that he made before that one and this was part of a spurt of posts he made in reaction to being wagoned

Oh man when I read 1680 I found it so extremely weird but I just couldn't process into words how I felt about it

[Nauci]

Can we lynch Irrelephant pls?

Did he say the w word

No but he said TWTBAW

How is that scummy?

Scum NM spent like half of the game trollingly demanding the lynch of a player for having said wagonomics

I don't remember the last time I saw NM explain a vote of his with more depth than that

[Nauci]

pedit at Nauci: tw's tone sounds off in here.

Can you be more specific

[Nauci]

Can we lynch Irrelephant pls?

Did he say the w word

No but he said TWTBAW

How is that scummy?

Scum NM spent like half of the game trollingly demanding the lynch of a player for having said wagonomics

I don't remember the last time I saw NM explain a vote of his with more depth than that

Oops I accidentally wrote "the game" when I meant the game Irrelephant mentioned that I had modded

Mini normal 2030 to be specific

[Nauci]

I think mewtaph's posts read to me like someone who acquiesces to requests really easily but struggles to satisfyingly do so, whether that's a matter of playstyle or inability to fake town reasoning (e.g. when he wasn't able to explain specifics)

So I think 1680 was weird to me because it felt very acquiescent to a demand to evaluate his predecessor in order to seem town? Like he tried way too hard to read teacher's one post from a 3rd party perspective, which is probably something every other player in the game would have been dismissive about?

Which makes me wonder if he's struggling to post thoughts without prompting which I suppose was your original point

I've felt like every time I scum read someone this game it's when they've not kept up with the frenzied pace of the game in a while and contribute a bunch of posts and self defense in a row and it sways me a little, but in a circle between performer, xtoxm, and mewtaph. Because of this, I'm hesitant to agree with any read of them without reviewing their ISO

While kokichi has never quite hit the "hmm this slot could be town" reaction from me when he did participate when he got wagoned, so my vote is between him and NM right now

[Nauci]

I think NM is town. This is how he always acts

Therefore NM is always town?

[Nauci]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Nauci]

Looking into anyone not in the general POE list means making a srs bsns case though, which would stir up all sorts of debate and take a long time to resolve (and resolving is necessary!). It's not just about rallying votes, it'd be about trying to change a lot of minds in a dramatic way, starting with my own.

[Nauci]

There’s a lot there
Something about PGO?

Look again.

[Nauci]

TW, Shoshin, Varsoon, Mitillos, Keyser, Irrelephant, Nancy: can y'all post up-to-date full read lists?

[Nauci]

I've seen him as scum once it was on another site. He tried more than he has here.

I feel like very many of us have seen both town and scum NM 3-10 times; factor this into how you weigh our opinions of him.

[Nauci]

Spoiler: For Irrelephant's Eyes Only!

Skim Open 732 and tell me if you see what I see?

Wait am I supposed to read the actual game or follow this link and read scumchat?

Dangit I was hoping only the people who clicked would realize that I linked scumchat instead of the actual game (ಥ_ಥ)

[Nauci]

i think i would recognize where i said it

Said what?

[Nauci]

... wrote the whole pt?

But that's why I said only people who clicked on the link would know it was the scum pt and not the game thread (I assumed that most people wouldn't click it)

It was a somewhat elaborate and overly ambitious reaction test

But I think I got more from the reactions than, say, anyone has ever gotten from NM

Admittedly a low bar

[Nauci]

I'm not going to be able to finish this investigation in time so I'm just going to post what has made me question skitter (well, I've kinda not felt great about the slot since the beginning, but never looked into why or tried to articulate it since that's an impossible day 1 lynch anyway).

I don't have a formed opinion by any means yet because I've not had time to sit down and reread her ISO, so this is all, like, my-case-on-blackvoid levels of paranoia/loose thoughts. But because skitter proved so formidable at sounding town on more than even a surface level in her scum game, I feel like I need to drop this here. Since she and I are both very townread, I'd be sad if I was NKed and no one ever looked at this as a possibility at all. With that said, this case wasn't even enough to convince me skitter isn't town, so she sits right in my r/therewasanattempt-null pile.

Skitter don't hate me forever ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Spoiler: skitter feels, mang

Subject: OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y : SCUMZ PT

lol

kinda wondering if she's going to be paranoid and wonder why people aren't reading her as lynchbait, and that scum don't really feel the need to fight this fight given that we know she's lying and that she just screamed in rainbow colors for town prs not to be on her, and whether if she'll come to the conclusion that *we* have pgo.

it's kinda an interestng set of logical hoops required to come to the right conclusion and i wonder if she'll manage to do so

Based on her scum PT reactions to ruru fake claiming PGO here, and all of the speculation she did wrt PGO claiming in general, I feel like she has undercommented on Irrelephant's claim

Subject: OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y : SCUMZ PT

i'm actually kinda surprised i got townread this fast and/or easily? i feel like i'm just bullshitting a bunch of words that i would probably talk about as town cept i just made all of it up and like half of it is fluff that i added to make it seem more 'nuanced'

This is what my gut has been feeling about skitter's posting this entire game

Subject: OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y : SCUMZ PT

yeah, i try, i just have a really hard time pushing people based on things i don't believe and/or know aren't true. like i can make up fake analysis without that much difficulty; i just have a lot of trouble pushing 'scumreads' that i don't actually believe in

yeah that game was fun and i remember getting super annoyed at the roleplay lolz

Scum skitter is great at self-casing lol

Side note, skitter is not shy about bussing but also not about potentially defending teammates (and also contemplated fake claiming)

With these (and other bits I didn't explicitly note), I got on a path of re-evaluating my feels about skitter's play this game and some interactions. My first game with skitter, I mind melded hard enough that she spent the whole game thinking I was trying to pocket her because I kept talking about how I was hard townreading her because she was practically in my head with the reactions she had.

I specifically asked Irrelephant to look at the thread because, as previously mentioned, he takes leads and chases them up a lot. And he has the sort of mind that chases down bits and leads like this with some degree of paranoia like I was, and I could count on it as a second opinion. (@irrelephant, pause reading here and consider the above before you continue; TIA!) And also because I had gut feels of associations between skitter and irrelephant IF skitter is scum

So I've got a pet theory that skitter could be scum and that if so, irrelephant potentially is a scum partner there.

Reasons I think I can articulate:

-Skitter has said lots of analysis and true things, but not pushed anyone much except mewtaph (and has been ultra conservative with throwing out votes)
-Skitter would have articulated much more on why she'd prefer to lynch kokichi in a way I would have grokked easily
-all of the analysis about the pgo claim was with the idea that the alternative is irrelephant being a scum pgo instead of town pgo, with a quick dismissal of the idea that he's a scum not-pgo
-skitter has solo scummed to victory as one of the town's strongest town reads for the whole game despite never being NKed (town lynched the other scum on d1 and d2)
-irrelephant town read her below the never-scum tier but threw AN into the town block based on her read?
-irrelephant otherwise hasn't interacted a lot with skitter, which is possible-partner levels for Irrelephant

~*~*~feels and paranoia~*~*~

-I just kept getting the feeling that her posts have been under-confident or feigning confidence
-Everything has drifted right in that fake-town zone she herself described
-if mitillos was informed there are no ninjas, would scum be informed there isn't a pgo?
-very loose idea that both skitter and irrelephant under-reacted to the link. For skitter, I felt a "I need to know where this is going so I don't respond in the wrong way" hesitation, and for irrelephant, I really thought he'd pick up on the same parts I saw or at least would take more time to try to see what I was trying to show, since it's not even a very long PT. I expected a bit more than just a few words before moving on?
-the number of posts on AN felt so excessive I wondered if it was fluff
-when would I ever not be paranoid about irrelephant playing a glorious scum game? I mean who would I even be? I always thought that if irrelephant rolled scum against me, he'd work to have me on his side because I'm the most likely person to dismantle his act, and nothing like a big ol' town case on me to really dig in on that

reasons to town read skitter and/or irrelephant

-the pressure on mewtaph was pretty good and I agree with several of the conclusions there
-inconvenient-for-scum number of town reads formed from both
-townrelephant claiming pgo like that is perfectly plausible
-that town case on me was actually really great work and pro-town
-he has been voting all over the place and chasing up leads left and right within a POE pile like townrelephant usually does

This isn't a remotely good use of the rest of day 1 so I'm tabling this pursuit and looking up Performer meta when I wake up

[Nauci]

Where I'm currently at

• Nauci
  
  
• the worst
  
  
• Shoshin
  
  
• Mitillos
  *
  
• Irrelephant11
  
  
• Varsoon
  
  
• Xtoxm

Null - Conflicted

• skitter30
  
  
• AlmostNancy {Almost50 & Nancy Hydra}

Null - I Just Got Nothin'

• Creature
  
  
• Keyser Söze

• Performer
  
  
• Mewtaph teacher
  
  
• Kokichi Oma Saudade
  
  
• Not_Mafia*