Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[bob3141]

Always beware those that speak to animals.

VOTE: DrD

[bob3141]

Always beware those that speak to animals.

VOTE: DrD

How much have you read

Nothing, just found the game had started

[bob3141]

Holy fuckballs, Titus is town, and right.

Someone please tell me why we shouldn’t mass claim everything?

Massclaiming leaves us with dr vs mafia roleblocker, and phone operator.

That’s a 50% chance of lynching right and leaving us with a town confirm. I feel like that’s pretty good.

So you are in favour of everyone outting in effect the doc.

As others have pointed out the doc isnt in hood.

So reduce the hiding space for our doc from 7 to none.


There could be something that could be said for mass claim as teh days go on. But now it only favours scum.


Although no one should lol hammer and give every player enough time to let everyoen know their hood at l-1



when we lynch scum. We get confirmed townie. This leaves scum with out the ability to kill them before the doc. Until a second is lynched and even then, scum need to feel lucky.

However, if we in effect out the doc.

The doc dies and every time we get a confirmed townie. we risk losing him that night of the scum lynch

[bob3141]

I'm back. Not sure if I should say this, but someone broke into my house and apprehended Thilbert; they said they were throwing him into mafiascum jail. He said he'd caught up and meta analysed every player in the thread. He was in the middle of telling me his solve for the mafia team when they got him, the bastards.

But I did hear him shriek "nan" on the way out. So he was either screaming for his nan, the poor thing, or telling me Nancy Drew 39 is scum.

VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

-Hectic

but why do you think nancy is scum?

[bob3141]

did i finally make a posts with no typos in

[bob3141]

I don't, I've only read the first two pages because I've been out with friends. Her name fit my purposes for the joke.

I've been staring at your post for quite a while now, Bob. You know how you know something's off, but you can't put your finger on what that is? Well, your post had that kind of uncanny valley feeling to it, but an hour into my scrutiny, I got it.
There's no typos in that post.

VOTE: Bob

Why is Bob scum? I liked his doc theory.

Do you mean what i was talking about.

It was about how mass claiming day one is bad.

As it narrows down hiding room for doc. as scum have a lists of 7 people who could be the doc. would have been 9 if titus hadnt claimed. And if hectic or titus are scum. Then its still 9


if the lynchie claims his hood before hammer. Also that players neigbhour should also claim.

That way scum cant gambit


Any lolhammer should be taken as scum claim. give atleast a day or until every alive player has read.


once hammer is announced every player should posts if they are that players neighbour. and i mean every player


before any hammer.

[bob3141]

that way if they flip scum. Scum cant kill their neighbour during the night. And they cant lie.

As that would create a 1v1. AS you would have to players claiming to be that players neigbhour

[bob3141]

two not to

[bob3141]

once hammer is announced every player should posts if they are that players neighbour. and i mean every player


before any hammer.

Well I mean or that player can claim their neighbor and the neighbor can just confirm it.

scum know their neigbhours

We also know scum is paired with one town.


Its a simple way to stop scum trying any funny business.

If get a situation were scum holds the hammer. Scum claim to be each others neigbhour. And scum hammers.

They then kill their neighbour in the night. Even if it does leave question why no one claims to be that dead players neighbour. That winof is unnecessary.


That way scum cant gambit a fake claim. I dont want to be going through the game again wrong taking a player as confirmed.

[bob3141]

Every player checking in cuts off that gambit space or any others they could find.

[bob3141]

amrun when did you redact your beleif it was bad idea.

[bob3141]

That isnt a clear redaction. It 3 words placed in middle of sentance. When quoting another persons post.


You were best of quoting your original offending posts with disregard entirely.

Otherwise no one but smart would notice

[bob3141]

above at armum

[bob3141]

I don't think scum-bob would have any difficulty making that post?

I find this a little weird. From its chronology I can only assuem you were responding to nan posts. Where she questiosn hectic vote. A posts that does not imply she a town read on me but that a it stands she couldnt see anything scum indicative so far. Which is far cry from some thinkign that post looks towny. What she said is she liked my doc comments. Which is different from town reading those comments. But instead reading them as value to town

But you first response is to shout (paraphrased)" oh but scum bob could make that post"

I could understand this if it was accompanied by something you claimed to have seen that resulted in you scum reading. But there is no comment on my alignment in your post.

So im trying it hard to see the purpose of your post


I just cant see you making that post if you didnt already have scum read one me. Unless you were scum trying to shade what i said.

[bob3141]

ss ur not even voting anyone just give me your vote

With the stated purpose of pushing through a lynch already? No thanks.

But i see you have not even made a rvs vote


If you had to pick some to vote as they are teh player you think is most likely scum. Who woudl it be? It does need to be a strong vote but a vote atleast


As i find it is scum most of all who prefer to not vote nor more it

A vote leaves a solid marker in the game that players vote was there. Even rvs vote.

[bob3141]

From its chronology I can only assuem you were responding to nan posts. Where she questiosn hectic vote.

That post was in response to 254, sorry if that wasn't clear.

But what was its purpose.

As it feels odd that you first instinct was to push "oh that could be scum him"

Its not like there was even attempt by you to try to discern if it was town me or scum me. But you just dismiss it.


Since you raised it. You must have seen something in my posts that lead you to vehemently disagree with nancy early light town read. Enough to make a post about it. Otherwise I would thought you would of simply ignor it. And privatly conclude you cant get a read of it, yourself.

But instead you make a hollow posts. Its not that you even say that post could be NIA. But you specifically oh it could be scum. And with no verdict but teh sentance itself being baised. You must ahve thought you saw somethign enough to make you choose to make that post.

[bob3141]

although there's smarter people than me in the lobby so i want to defer the thinking to them

So does this imply then that you simply intend to sheep player reads in this game if there in a select lists.

Also what makes you agree with the others that elsa is scum or are you reconsidering that vote. As athough that vote was made in rvs stage. That wagon is building

Do you now consider you vote on elsa to now be serous

[bob3141]

If you had to pick some to vote as they are teh player you think is most likely scum. Who woudl it be?

I don't think this question is helpful, because I don't have anyone I think is significantly more likely to be scum than random.

If I were to pick a scumread or a vote based off of very little things, that will have the effect of amplifying the read, probably causing people to believe it's stronger than it is and ask me to explain it and then be confused when my reasons aren't strong, and it may cause me to confbias on it.

Whereas, there's no benefit from doing so. I can be read just fine (in fact, probably better) without it.

So what your saying is that you can read fine without votes. But dont want yourself be read in turn. As i see you say that there is no benifit. As you say you dont want to have to defend any said read.

[bob3141]

Its not like there was even attempt by you to try to discern if it was town me or scum me. But you just dismiss it.

Of course not, my point was that it can't be discerned from that post, because you'd be able to make it as either alignment.

So are you saying you could of made that posts as scum then.


As you dont say that post could be made by a player regardless of alignment. But specifically that scum bob could make that post.

A posts that realy hadnt been taken notice by many players apart from nancy but you make a specific post to a a specific player. In tending to push that player can make a post that she perceives as towny as scum. But not once saying why you migth think a scum me could make that post. Or even why I would still make that post if i wasnt scum.

You must of seen something wrongly if you are infact town to have decided to have commented on it in such a way.

I don't see a townie mindset there. As it stands.



Other have said things along the lines of oh its noethign new ect. But not in reply to someones read on it nor raised that line you did that it could be scum. At most they said in effect its NIA or its not original to be town indicative. Or like most simply ignored it.

[bob3141]

I don't see a townie mindset there. As it stands.

You don't see a townie mindset in trying to prevent people from having spurious reads?

Let me ask you do you think i am scum or town in those posts.

You must have seen something you thought was scum indictive. Or townie would of made such a posts.


A townie would then say instead. hey look here and here this could mean he is infact scum.

In fact you have not once said how that could me being scum. If you were genuine i woudl have thought you would have atleast tried. Instead you just dismiss it even though you cant see anything scum indicative



Instead you push a narrative that anything that could be perceived as townie could simply be scum. Without you even seeing anything. So you first response was simpy to shade.

As you even know make no attempt to explain how that could of come from scum or how it would benifit scum.

If it had come from townie mindset you would simply directly have Commented on the posts. and maybe even concluded its NIA but you would not of said that post could have been made by scum

[bob3141]

in direct response to someones day one read. On a posts of not much significance.

[bob3141]

I mean caring about being right and being recognized as being right and in the right. It's not actually important but scum care about it more than town. There's no sorting to do but there's plenty of people making right and wrong statements.
I think it's surprising past what should be plausible that you don't see why Bob has this scumread and I generally think of you as a player who can empathize with the reasons behind inaccurate scumreads so this is indeed very different from what I expect from town-you which is a recurring pattern this game

So are you saying you dont town read smart for the fact he cant in your opinion empathize with the line of questioning. As his intial responses must of convinced you that he was looking scummy. Since it motivated you to make a vote on him.

Before any line of enquiry had been completed. Is there anything else you have seen from smart that contributed to your scum read of him. That was strong enough to result in a vote



I also find peculiare that you would start mentioning me having a scum read on smart. Even though I never actualy mentioned that i concluded a scum read on him. With me only questioning him on a few of his actions to try and determine his alignment. The bit i find peculiare is not that you think i scum read him but that you would use it to push a scum read on him. based on empathy on scum read you couldnt be entirly sure that i do have

[bob3141]

VOTE: Hectic

I literally have never read a post of Hectic’s, ever, that I don’t find to be scummy.

I find him scummy here too. Just not sure that stops him from being town??? Still probably higher than rand scum so completely fine with a lynch on that slot.

Ok so ... skitter and I just had some serious conversation and we’re coming in hot with the spice vote.

VOTE: popsofctown

Your vote on Something_Smart and the timing of it and reasoning behind it is bad.


NaCl is on the short list too for a bad Eddie vote.

I see that you voted just before nancy voted. And with the vote on hectic beign pushed up to l-2 you unvoted.

So how did nancy vote affect your conviction that voting for hectic was the best cause of action.

[bob3141]

I’m not pisskop but I’ll take that offer anyway.

VOTE: Elsa

Easily the most vote worthy so far

Here you vote for elsa. And later you ask nancy why she thought elsa was town.


But you never said why you no longer wanted to vote for elsa. What changed your mind on elsa given nancy choose not to give her reasons for town reading her.

And it was nancy vote for hectic that closely proceed you switching you vote yet again

[bob3141]

Not at all really.

So what convinced you that hectic was no longer a worthy wagon.

As to vote a player up to even l-3 you must have had some sort of conviction that players was scum.


What was your original reasonign for hectic. As from what i read you just said you generaly scum read hectic all the time. And you say that from what you see of him this game he looks scummy too.

[bob3141]

Nancy has played with Elsa before. I haven’t. I HAVE played with Nancy before. It was an attempt to help me sort them both.

Nothing caused me to unvote Elsa. I just found a better home for my vote. I didn’t retract anything I said previously. My feelings about it weren’t overly strong, but it was the strongest feeling I had in that moment. I have stronger feelings about pops now.

P-edit: I changed my vote because skitter and I got on discord and talked extensively about this game. She has more experience with most of these players than me, including Hectic and Pops. I’ve never played with pops before IIRC. She said that what was bothering me about Hectic was more likely to be NAI, and more importantly, she firmed up a background feeling I was having about pops. I was pretty explicit about this already. I don’t know why I have to rehash it.

I’m still fine with pressuring Hectic. I just also want to pressure pops.

So what did you see that after talking with skitter that you now consider to be NIA

[bob3141]

@Hectic

If you had to pick some to vote as they are teh player you think is most likely scum. Who woudl it be?

I don't think this question is helpful, because I don't have anyone I think is significantly more likely to be scum than random.

If I were to pick a scumread or a vote based off of very little things, that will have the effect of amplifying the read, probably causing people to believe it's stronger than it is and ask me to explain it and then be confused when my reasons aren't strong, and it may cause me to confbias on it.

Whereas, there's no benefit from doing so. I can be read just fine (in fact, probably better) without it.

This is one of S_S's posts that is one of his goodpostings

and its logic applies to how I am not eager to justify a read for the 999th time that I'm not sure about

With some effort I could articulate some elements of what's a mismatch, some of it is harder to articulate

I can tell you virtually none of the patterns were present in Crown, I don't know if that's incidental or if S_S tends to play IC differently.

VOTE: Krazy

Bad vote

Do you think its a bad vote because you think the reasoning is bad. Or just based on your read of krazy

Also were do you think that players vote comes from. Whether a town just having bad reads or scummy.

[bob3141]

Ask your teammates if they think you are being obvtown and why

I know I’m obvtown and you’re being a woat. Ask me questions like Eddie asked. I’m not wasting their time with idiotic questions.

So if you were to look back through the game. Where do you think you have been obvous towning .

[bob3141]

Ask your teammates if they think you are being obvtown and why

I know I’m obvtown and you’re being a woat. Ask me questions like Eddie asked. I’m not wasting their time with idiotic questions.

So if you were to look back through the game. Where do you think you have been obvous towning .

Because I never play like this as scum. And DDL is apparently one of the few who is seeing that.

Can you give reasonign beyond a naturaly baised perspective. A reply that is immediately undermined by its own nature. As if you are scum could easily reply in the same way.

So what examples of your usual scum play do you think havent shown up. And what have you doen do you feel that you woudl do as town but not scum.


Also are you claiming that you should be taken as obvtown based on your meta and not your actual play. How do you think a player thats has never played with you would perceive you this game

[bob3141]

Hi, Nancy, are you related to Doctor Drew?

I'm V/LA until Monday in case you missed that; I was being serious when I said I've only read the first two pages.
I'll come and obvtown my slot real quick when I'm back so you don't need to worry.

Oh

whoops

, I just dropped my

stethoscope

, how clumsy of me! I guess I'll retreat into my

consulting room

, and consult my

Drew

.
(hint hint)

I was obviously trying to keep my being in a hood a secret but scum can clearly obviously tell by my sudden unvote that I thought Hectic was doc. Now he continues to push this, maybe to sort me as he claims but I can also see the possibility that he’s also trying to out the PO as well.

Why do you feel teh need to out yourself being in a hood. Based on unvoting a player that had clearly could not be the doc. With him being outed as being in hood at teh start of the game. Clearly he could be doc who isnt in a hood. And why do you think scum would know your in hood by unvoting.


Also how do you think hectic is trying to out the PO

[bob3141]

Well I'm not voting Nancy today.

I'll do Eddie Cane, pops, DrDoolittle, Krazy, Hectic, bob3141 or NaCl.

Pretty much everyone else on this list is town or town enough for today (Amrun). Can we lynch today please?

So is your list there is just based on poe. But of those players you have not yet decided on for now do you feel are actualy scummy. And which 3 players do you think have teh greatest likelyhood of beign scum.

[bob3141]

I know at least one person who won’t be getting a paragon nom next year. Did you guess you? And you will always be the very LAST person on this site, I will ever be accepting criticisms wrt to my behaviour.

Can we not

No, Pine seems to feel he has some God given right to pass moral judgement on me and lecture me all over this goddamned forum and I’m frankly sick of it.

This vendetta you think I have against you does not exist. I’m getting a little tired of it. This is a game of social deduction, positioning, and assessment. Game-related posts are not universally condemnations of your ability or intelligence, and I would please like you to stop misconstruing them that way.

or rather, why so many people are townreading nacl

I'm not lately.

So does that mean you were town reading him earlier. If so what has he done for you to change your read on him.

Also are you scum read nacl or simply not town reading him at teh moment

[bob3141]

I will be on the road most of the day tomorrow. If I still have energy when I get home I'll try to catch up then, otherwise Tuesday. I'm still kinda dealing with holiday travels.

My team got back to me a little which made me think about a few slots more.

Pops you are amai townie kawaii ko-chan. Someone wanted you to know this, you can guess who

Bob, for reference I am also det. Pikachu. I was in a game with you a bit back and you feel kinda diff here than you did there. Is there any mitigating factor that would explain that (pressure from your team etc.?)

Salt I was in a game with you, either on weiss or dva, and you feel a little more passive here than you did there. Kinda same question, has your playstyle changed much in last two or three months?

**

oka, maria has played with you but she has no useful metric for reading your alignment. I know there's more you've said but I will have to save that for tomorrow

**

Hectic, srs bsns questions. Mad Max: Fury Road or Road Warrior? Fallout or Last of Us? Imagine Dragons or Iron Maiden? These are essential to me understanding your alignment

More when I'm not mobile posting

I think that was the first game of mafia i had on this site. When you replaced in day 2 or 3 i think. Cant realy say why i would feel different but it could either be that its just early day one.

[bob3141]

Does that mean you don't want to be in a hood with me

Does that mean you don't want to be in a hood with me

I like my neighbour, they’re really cool. Perhaps a future game?

If you're town, you realize posts like these help mafia PR hunt the doc and contribute nothing to solving the game, right?

You say posts liek that dont help but what do you think her motivation was.

[bob3141]

VOTE: pops

I see you voted pops without giving any reasonign for your vote on him. Although you have mentioned a scum read on him several times. I cant actualy see your reasoning behind the vote and the proceeding scum read in your iso. So what in teh game have you seen that has made you come to the conclusion that pops is scum

In fact all i can find is you pushing the fact that you liked the hectic vs pops wagons idea. What in your words makes you think that their was a potential Vs in their wagons. Since you think pops is scum how do you think this hectic vs pops wagon pays out on hectics alignment.

[bob3141]

All 3 of these people have votes, but I would like to propose a town bloc of Titus, Oka, SS.

Maybe Amrun too?

What is you reasoning behind a town block of these 4. As i cant realy see why you in your opinion would town read these players enough to form them into town block.

For instance with look at your iso i cant see in your iso once interacting with titus

With oka you simply say he feels townier than another game. But neither what his alignment was that game or how much townier he feels. And how you came to that conclusion.

On smart all i can see before then realy is askign nancy what her teams read on him was. A player you had earlier voted for. oh and a greeting to him. And after all you do is him for read list and what his teams raeds are.

And even armum you only ask what his teams reads are.


And for every question there is no follow up by you on what you thought of any answers they may have given. Only a simply list of 4 players you say should be town block but not why, you think that.

I could undestand you maybe null reading a group of players or even privatly concider soem of tehm town based on what youve seen. But to form a town block with player you have barley interacted with no real sign of you really trying to sort them.

[bob3141]

{Nancy, bob}
{pisskop, Titus, Hectic, Oka}
{Pine}
{Eddie, Elsa, Amrun, NaCl, Krazy} - null
{pops, DDL}

Town to scum or scum to town?

Labels, people, ffs

You ask for clarification on teh order of his read list. But what do you think of his reads and if you disagree on the placement of players. And why do you feel that way?

[bob3141]

Nancy, I have been a little unhappy irl recently. I try not to let real life affect my emotions here, but maybe it leaked into my interaction with you? I'm not sure how though because I was just trying to stay level headed and reasonable. My lack of engagement before was because I hadn't read the game until yesterday.
But since you've somehow gauged that and are scumreading me for it, please don't. I'm not asking you to townread me for this, I just want you to consider it NAI. Also, vote Pine with me if you scumread him too.

I've realised I shouldn't force myself to play if I'm feeling down so I'll be back tomorrow after hopefully a good night of sleep.

Why did you make that fake doc post? And yeah, I am definitely considering that as a possibility because it seems like Pine isn’t reading my posts or anything anyone is saying about me. Here’s the thing, both DDL and Pine were in Marked for Death. Pine was my buddy in that and DDL tr me here while Pine is locksr me, so something isn’t adding up.

I'm reading everything you post, and I don't lockscum you. There are shades of gray in the world. I don't respond to you because I'm trying to keep my head in the game.

As a matter of fact, I'm coming around to a Hectic + {NaCL, Krazy, Bob} solve right now.

So whats you reasoning behind these scum reads. As for soem of them i actualy cant find any progression

I do get the feeling that the scum could be trying to scum read their neighbours so they can get rid of them before they flip.

[bob3141]

This is a bad wagon with a bad comp. it stinks.

Hmm

Pine why does two votes on me suggest hectic scum?

It doesn’t on its own. It’s evidence of counterwagoning.

VOTE: NaCl

VOTE: nacl

VOTE: nacl

I don't think heck survives the game, tbfrank.

Ok with NaCl wagon too.

I don't think Amrun is town in this game of mafia

Pops what do you think of the nacl wagon and the wagon that armum has started to push, pine.


Also to armum. Why are you ok with nacl wagon even though 3 of the players from a wagon you said had bad composition are on it. Plus one you are currently voting for.

Apart from pine who on that hectic wagon in your view was the bad comp.

[bob3141]

I mean, look at that scummy as fuck wagon on OkaPoka. I maintain that {Krazy, NaCl, Hectic} is an entirely plausible team

Isn't that a little too transparent for a day 1 counterwagon if we were all scum? Also, why would my hypothetical partners push OkaPoka who's been generally town imo and is push harder to actually push?

I could see Hectic and NaCl but not all three. The wagon would be overloaded.

I'd change to Hectic, Dr. D, and NaCl.

Seems your very eager to go with the flow. The hectic wagon breaks up and two of them move to nacl. And all of sudden nacl is in your scum list.

Seems you start scum reading a player as soon as 2-3 other players start doing so and not before

[bob3141]

I like the idea of Hectic v pops wagons.

titus and see you still have not answer my question related to this.


Also an additional point. Why would you push a theory of 2 counter wagons. Hectic and pops when pops at the timr only had single vote. I wouldnt call one person a wagon. With that same logic you coudl push teh idea of hectic beign counter by maybe half dozne different wagons. Or how you define a wagon as it looks, single votes.

VOTE: titus

[bob3141]

I do get the feeling that the scum could be trying to scum read their neighbours so they can get rid of them before they flip.

Then how to we have such a large organic townblock?

L minus 1

VOTE: Hectic

Tomorrow, if I am alive, pops and I will have a chat.

This looks like your feeling very self conscious of your vote on hetic. Replying yo my posts about how scum migth be trying to scum read their neigbhours to get them lynched before there is any risk of them becoming confirmed town when their scum neighbour flips

[bob3141]

Amrum were those two sentances in fact made separately or did you type it out as you went

[bob3141]

Ank has said lots about you. So has Tom. So have I. I am choosing not to discuss that read at the moment, though.

I really liked 1013. Krazy nailed my thought process during my voting/unvoting Hectic wrt to that fake doc thing to a tee. He didn’t just say I’m town.

My neighbour also is convinced he’s town and I hard tr my neighbour.

Its interesting that you hard town read your neighbour. Do you think scum are more likely to try to scum read their neighbour or claim to town read them in the thread


As i think we have already seen a few neighbours claim a scum read on their neigbhour. One of the examples being titus scum read hectic

[bob3141]

i'd expect a lot of more mechanism play from town S_S that I'm not seeing here. He's playing a passive game but it's a scum passive play

So outside the lack mech play. Do you think he has done anything directly that makes you think he is scum as apposed to the simple lack of something

[bob3141]

S_S's approach to the setup is that last of my concerns about him because the setup is a powder keg of premature claiming behavior

pedit: I did think it was really weird that he was defending memeing
when I rolled scum with him in guns he wouldn't let me meme

I seriously doubt scum!SS hard defends town!Hectic. So unless Hectic flips scum, I’m not really interested in that wagon rn.

So why do you think a scum Smart would never defend you wagon. What precludes from being scum that simply wants to be on the opposite side of it. In your opinion?

What do you feel that quality of smarts defense of you has been. You say hard defends but im asking the actual quality of the defense as you perceive it

[bob3141]

I seriously doubt scum!SS hard defends town!Hectic.

I disagree with that, btw.

If you are town but were scum instead. What do you feel you would do in relation of nancys wagon

[bob3141]

I feel like if somebody coded a robot to play mafia it would sound like Bob

So what makes you think it sounds like a robot.

[bob3141]

Twice in a row I've pushed Pine and then been immediately counter-pushed is interesting tho

So do you think thats a sure sign that pine is scum. You say you think your being counter pushed but how many of those involved do you think are scum.

[bob3141]

Pine was pushing way too hard: first Krazy/me, then Hectic and when Piss and me jumped off, Pine wanted to ram through which is obviously now a Hectic mislynch.

And the jump to NaCi is hella gross. I believe there’s one scum on that wagon and I don’t think it’s you.

I object to this narrative. Pine hasn't been pushing anything too hard. He was the only one who pressured my reaction on the best plan being rejected, which suggested an attempt to sort me. He didn't push me too hard.

Krazy might be scum.
You think a feather pushes you too hard.
Hectic is scum, more likely than not.

NaCl is highly likely scum with Hectic.

Hectic DDL NaCl contains at least 2 scum, if not all three. If I am wrong on one, it's pops most likely.

How long have you had your nacl scum read

[bob3141]

I had a big long thing written up but I don't actually want to start walling, so I'm going to put it like this.

Spoiler: The bottom half of Ank's reads list

Pops
Nacl / Bob / Krazy

Spoiler: The bottom half of Tom's reads list

Pops
Krazy

Spoiler: The people I personally would like to kill today

Pops > Krazy

Spoiler: All of Dann's contribution to the game in order from oldest to most recent

Oka town
Piss town
Pops scum
Krazy scum
Amrun town
Piss actually scum but not with Pops
our entire team thinks pops is scum
the post where she decided i was scum is enough to case her on its own

It is a little off that nobody in the game is really aligning with our reads. Especially since all 4 of us are, like, super synced. I don't know if I really believe Krazy and Pops is S/S but I'm supremely confident there's at least 1 there, and the fact nobody is aligning is worrying.

So whats the reasoning behind your teams different scum reads. What do they think they have seen that makes them think the different players are scum. And why do they think those are so

[bob3141]

Thats the vote history as of now.

Elsa Jay (4) - NaCl, popsofctown, DrDoolittle, Amrun
Hectic (5) - Pine, OkaPoka, pisskop, armum, Nancy Drew 39
Hectic (7) - Pine, pisskop, Nancy Drew 39, DrDolittle, OkaPoka, titus, elsa
Pine (4) - Hectic, Amrun, Nancy Drew 39, krzay

I think elsa jay wagon was once that happened in rvs. They can tend to be more likely on the all town end but can still contain scum at teh start. But dont think ive seen scum join late on sizeable rvs vote wagon

The first hectic wagon was before teh first collapse and teh second was teh wagon that formed by the time of l-1

And i think pine is the current leading wagon

[bob3141]

Yep that first wagon was the one that formed during and right after rvs. With 4th vote landing at the very start of day 2.

[bob3141]

Now we have the hectic wagon. His alignment isnt known yet but we have 2 conditions. One he is scum and one he is town.

Now what woudl teh comp of both wagons be in each condition

If he is town one of:

Pine, pisskop, Nancy Drew 39, DrDolittle, OkaPoka, titus, elsa

is almost certianly scum.

But if he is scum would a wagon of that size really be all town this early. So just as likely that atleast one is scum

But would more be one one or the other and more importantly which one.

[bob3141]

Please don't call me "kid" or any other noun that doesn't describe me.

I think my vote is on Amrun right now, it'd be about the same as if it was on Eddie. Moving it doesn't matter, people changing their minds would matter more than the integers next to the names.

Why is Amrun scum?

Amrun is willing to lynch basically anybody. I can't remember a time she's come to this thread and said anything in the vein of "X seems like the hot wagon right now, but Y has higher probability to flip scum and serves my wincon and we should move to it".

I've seen players like Titus have that attitude as town and that's probably the kind of Titus we have here, but my interpretation of her timings and justifications leans towards this being the scummy wine-in-front interest in wagons that well slide into hammer quickly and get the first mislynch before this game gets re-paradigmed to have some scum in the consensus scumreads.

Just something about this feels forced. Feels more like your trying to float ideas to see if there are any takers for them. Rather than you actually genuinely pushing a read. More feels you trying to feel for the more effective counter wagon to yourself.

I see your pushing how armum said he was ok for nacl lynch. Yet armum never actual even voted him to 4 votes. He could have but he didn't. Also missing the fact that we all know there are 3 mafia in this game. Thus that there are 3 players that can be scum. Therefore, a person can be happy to lynch from a list of 3 scum reads.

You also imply that armum is just going to whichever wagon is going. Yet you fail to mention that he wasn't on hectic second time round. Why do you think he did not rejoin the hectic wagon as it regrew?


You vote for armun after the nacl thing but you don't actually pressure and question. You don't try and narrow down his reads. Try to determine other than pine who he is scum reading. As he could very easily be town scum reading nacl and pine. But have a preference for pine.


You don't try to determine before voting why he would be ok joining nacl wagon. You just call him out for it because he is already voting another player. Yet as we know a player can have more than one scum read.

You even jump on something that could genuinely be mistake. Who hasn't written a sentence only to find it no longer matches the one next to it. For something that is so easy to do you jump on with surprising conviction. You later even say it can Nai but at the same time it can't be for armum as he must be scum.

---

on titus you first say oh it could be town her. But then you start floating the idea that it could be scum her. If you were scum reading her for it I would've expected the first sentence to be missing. Even then your details are light. In the post you say the timing are off but dont actual explain why.

[bob3141]

Guys.
I really do thing SS is scum this game

I'm unsure on pops right now, but I think krazy and pine are both town

Drd what do you think you have seen that leaves to the conclusion that smart is infact scum. As i infact cant see any details in your entire iso. Although there are mentions its always vague.

Like he shoudl be speaking out more or mention he doesn't look as good as prior game. NOthing that can really be quantified or nailed down.

What do you think of every read he has given. And what do you think his scum motivation would be for giving such a read. Aswell as well as what he used as reasoning

[bob3141]

I am scum for being too sure if Amrun's alignment but also I am scum for not knowing Titus's alignment?

Who was this @

[bob3141]

what's the probability we'd put on pops+eddie hoods having one scum?

i might be slowly warming up pops scum, but i think i need the bread to stayed in the oven a bit longer first.

rn im not convinced.

If one of pop and eddie is town and the otehr scum. Who would you think is the most likely to eb scum and why?

And if you had to vote for one over the other who would it be

[bob3141]

VOTE: pops

l1

hmm

i dont like it

Oh and only a little earlier you said you didnt like this yet you say you are warmign up to scum pops. What about that vote dont you like. What do you feels oka motivation for the vote is aswell as the very nature of the vote it self.

[bob3141]

It bothers me that 1966 has this teabagging assumption of reading everything I do as scum but doesn't actually canvas for votes, that might be what Ali means by saying it's a post like he's ahead.

It has been really interesting to see how Ali's approach to town (oh wait I don't have to backspace VT thanks Ed) VT is different and makes me wish maybe I hydra'ed more, though I'm pretty firmly against the unfair advantage element and want pure-hydra-games to come up

I think you got the post number wrong again. 1966 was a post asking you who your statement was directed at.


And all these posts any you have no yet answered one of my questions.

[bob3141]

So what does you bases does your read on me have. As all of a sudden i make it quite clear im scum reading and behold you claim to have started scum reading. Yet you cant come up with any baises for teh read. In fact all you can come up with is tht bob must be deep wolfing but even then you cant come up with any substance.

Yet again you just dodged the questions i put to you.


VOTE: pops

[bob3141]

That post number is correct. 19

9

6 asked who a statement was directed at (and it was kind of you kind of no one in particular).

1966 has a singular question mark in it, for "why do you think Amrun didn't rejoin the Hectic wagon when it regrew?" which looks like a rhetorical question, and on the offchance it wasn't I wasn't aware of Hectic's wagon having more than one phase so I don't have anything for you. Posting a long shade post characterizing everything I do in the worst light, inserting a single rhetorical question into it, and then responding to getting ignored with "all these posts any you have no yet answered one of my questions" is a disingenuous way to act like you're sorting me when you're not.

There was more than just the question with the actual question mark. In fact there quite a few implied questions. Just because they're not directly written does not mean that there there. There was quite a few points i wanted you to respond too in it.


The fact you didnt come up with anything makes me think you just want to dismiss the post.

[bob3141]

I pointed out that it didn't make sense for you to criticize me both for a high confidence level on Amrun and a low confidence level on Titus. You asked who I was talking to when it was rather obvious it was you, which is a blunt way of dismissing someone as "you're so wrong you must be talking to a different audience", so no, I didn't come back to get repeatedly dismissed, I spent more time with people who were going to talk to me like a person.

see this is the problem, at every turn your misrepping my post and ignoring what im say and asking.

You say its certainty on armum and uncertainty on titus, when its not. Its about diving into your reads and actions so i can get hints of your alignment. Rather responding to the post you simply dismiss it.

The points as shoudl of been clear. I didnt think i need to put in lots of ? to be clear.


First point resolves around your progression of armum and how you scum read him. Starting in 1156. You have few interactions before that but not much. What i thought was clear that i was pushing to know more about the read starting from there.

You never at that point explicitly say what the reason for you read is but the only info is that he offered to vote for nacl. Implied question, explain your progression on armum and reason for scum reading.

Also i point out that a player can have several scum reads and be ok voting for either. As after all there are 3 scum. Implied question how much does armum voting pine and offering a nacl Vote affect your read on him when he coudl simply think both are scum and be happy with either. Thus what about armum offer on nacl do you find scummy.



Then i ask you how does armum not returning to hectic wagon when it reforms. It doesnt matter that as you claim you were not aware of the 2 stages as 1. im informing you and 2. I posted about ealier. If you weren't aware then the implied question is what do you think of armum progression on hectic. Fact he voted first time round and not second when hectic reached l-1 or l-2. And what what are you reading into that.

Then i say what it appear to me. Implied question/reaction. Im trying to determine what you think of my very read to help judge you. as well showing what it looks like to me.


4th I point out you never realy pressure nor question armum. As thats the natural thing to do as you want to be sure you read is right. implied question what have you done to be sure on your read. What would you want him to answer to confirm yourself either wrong or right on him.

5th about armum post mistake. I ask why you think for some it coudl be nai but not armum. Why does it mean armum must be scum and not town. Or even why for armum its a sign of eitehr alignment rather than just an honest editing mistake that could of been done town or scum.


Conclusion i want to know your reasoning on your armum read so i can determine if it comes from town or scum.


-----


On titus im asking you to explain why. Whats off about the timings.

[bob3141]

but dont actual explain why.

Thought that woudl be clear. you say x but never say why. Im pointing that out and implied question is "why then?" "whats off" " how is it off" " what do you think the motivation was?"

[bob3141]

My VCA with wagons is prety much this.

Statistically each player on a wagon has a raw chance of 23% of being scum. Thus a wagon of 4 statistically is likely to have one scum on it.

Now some wagons will not and some will. As thats stats. red can come up 50 times a row even when its odds of landing on red is 48%

My VCA works by trying to understand the wagons. As the later part works along working out who could be the scum or on flip side determining if its all town and why scum woudl stay away. On the all town side it then goes to looking at those who had no reason not be on it.

[bob3141]

But also agree with I think it was SS saying Bob is actually interrogating and solving. I'll find the VCA in the large game later.

That large game was just to much for it. AS it works by tracking every vote


still i got titus and arron with it. Even if i did miss rick but that was because i believed his doc claim and never factored him in. I hate red herrings, i fall for them to often.

[bob3141]

we just never got them lynched

but i did get 2/3 of the right solve even if we did lose

[bob3141]

popsofctown (4) - Amrun, Something_Smart, bob3141, Eddie Cane
Eddie Cane (5) - popsofctown, unwnd, pisskop, Elsa Jay, [Titus]

we might have to competing wagons but that doesnt mean that they are SvT.

It could be SvT or TvT.

As based on just competing wagons we could easily have situation were scum are either split or just sitting back.

[bob3141]

Nacl were do you feel your vote is best placed. We have 3 going wagons. 2 with 4 votes and one with 3 votes.

Out of them if you had to pick who would it be and why. Even if you feel you dont want to pick either of them as you think they are all town. And will not vote for either.

So you are faced with the deciding vote and you had 3 options. Pine, pop and eddie or no lynch. Who would you pick and why?

And if there 3 optiosn you dont want who do you want to be one. And why not cast you vote tehre to show it in the VC. So far I cant see a vote you have been involved in thats got over 2 votes apart from your rvs vote on elsa that got caught in wagon.

[bob3141]

the game started on teh 3rd and the days are 14 days long.

So 17th ish is where teh deadline is I think

[bob3141]

But also agree with I think it was SS saying Bob is actually interrogating and solving. I'll find the VCA in the large game later.

That large game was just to much for it. AS it works by tracking every vote


still i got titus and arron with it. Even if i did miss rick but that was because i believed his doc claim and never factored him in. I hate red herrings, i fall for them to often.

Do you normally do this VCA on day 1 before there's any flips? Thinking back, you did it in the large game several days in iirc.

varries. That game i had no easy vc to go through to analysis. It wasnt till day 3 that i was prepared to collect the data myself and it was draining.

Just depends when im looking at teh vote counts allot. I tend to bounce around the different VCa looking at all the comments and votes around it.

Lookign for both those on teh wagon and those that have no reason not to be on it. in earlier game then first scum i found with it was because he wasnt on the main lynch.

[bob3141]

varries. That game i had no easy vc to go through to analysis. It wasnt till day 3 that i was prepared to collect the data myself and it was draining.

Just depends when im looking at teh vote counts allot. I tend to bounce around the different VCa looking at all the comments and votes around it.

Lookign for both those on teh wagon and those that have no reason not to be on it. in earlier game then first scum i found with it was because he wasnt on the main lynch.

You made those intermediary VCs yourself for that analysis? That's some dedication right there. Can we have a shotgun reads list from you btw? Don't think I recall seeing one from you.

yep. I recorded every vote cast with its post number. And every time it hit 12:00 Am gmt i copied the list below a divider for the next day and continued. When the day was done i deleted all the duplicate votes by deleting the oldest ones per day.

It took quite bit of time that was taken away from reading the game but it what i use to navigate the game. So much so I only did the raw data on the last one and never realy cleaned it up.


-----

Yep not somethign i realy do as my reads tend to be in constant flux but a snap shot of now.

Im thinking smart, oka and armum are town.

Quite allot of players are still rather null to me

currently deliberating on eddie vs pops and leaning slightly to it being TvT

Krazy did feel off to me.


Got no real strong scum reads at the moment.

My gut feeling is that scum I think would be trying to get their naigbhour lynched. So am suspicious of any neighbour focusing on their neighbour for scum reads. As it would make sense if they could. But are they?

----

[bob3141]

There are 7 neighbourhoods and 3 of which have scum in them. So if you're town, your neighbour has a 3/7 chance of being scum.

That isn't how math works. If you were to label the players like:

Scum 1 - Town 1
Scum 2 - Town 2
Scum 3 - Town 3
Town 4 - Town 5
Town 6 - Town 7
Town 8 - Town 9
Town 10 - Town 11

A townie has an equal chance of being in any of those 11 town slots. If they happen to be in Town 1, Town 2 or Town 3 (3/11 chance), their neighbor is scum; otherwise, their neighbor is town.

Yeah, you're right.

smart i was about to say that

this was mine

to any townie neigbhour the odds your scum partner is scum is 3/13 23%

you have pool of 13 players of which 3 are scum. such a townie has the odds of 3/7 of being in scum town parring. Which is 42%. But there are pleanty of parrings

You have 10/13 chance of being partnered with a townie 77%. As you dont know where the all town hoods are. Scum do.

[bob3141]

smarts one was clearer though.

[bob3141]

Why are you focusing on defending yourself on that aspect, Eddie?

What aspect should I be defending? Those are the only reasons I've seen given. Pops was the only vote on me until Krazy.

-snip-

its actually uh, 3/11 I think which is ~.27%.

They've essentially ghosted me haha

I think this game is actually very content-rich and solvable. I see you unvoted me, why? Have you worked on catching up yet?

My one was right. 3/13 your partner is scum. Thats a percentage of the raw pool

11 combination of the neighbour pairings of which 3 are scum. 42% your placed in one of the 3 scum parrings but sverval town pairings making it 3/11

10/13 being town. raw pool being town



Pointing out the different stats.

[bob3141]

looking through krazy iso it does look natural in relation to eddie. Now the question is was he right


I cant quite put the finger on why he feels odd. I think it might actualy be lack of a pikachu avatar lol

[bob3141]

pine was my neighbour

[bob3141]

Nancy if you think hectic is town can you talk us though your read on him at start o f day 1, middle of day oen and at teh end of day one. as well as how it changed though out day one and why?

[bob3141]

Are you scum here, Pine?

Swear to me mums, mate; this line right here is said between TvS more than TvT.

What do you think of this read now that we know pine is infact town

[bob3141]

because the core town here is

- ND
- oka
- piss
- amrun
- unwnd
- SS

- eddie


leaving

- hecktic
- bob
- nacl
- elsa
- doodles
- titus

pisskop can you talk us through the reads on the different players in your town block. As looking through your iso i can't really see any reason for why you personally town read some of them.

In particular can you talk us through your town read on nancy. Why you town read her? What she has done in your eyes to be town read and how that has progressed through out day 1.

[bob3141]

Pine (4) - Hectic, Amrun, Nancy Drew 39, krzay

This was pines wagon from yesterday. Can everyone on it explain there pine read from day one. and how it progressed though out that day?

[bob3141]

Votecount 1.31

popsofctown (5) -

Amrun, Something_Smart, bob3141, Eddie Cane, Titus

NaCl (3) -

Pine, pisskop, popsofctown

unwnd (2) -

OkaPoka, DrDolittle

Eddie Cane (1) -

Elsa Jay

Pine (1) -

Hectic

Not Voting (3) -

NaCl, unwnd, Nancy Drew 39

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Lookign through the VC i saw this. Could scum have been trying to create a counter wagon to pops at this point. on nacl we only have one unkown townie. That being pisskop with one scum pops and one town pine. Was pisskop scum trying to help push a counter wagon to pops own. Or simply town caught up

[bob3141]

Would be funny if they thought pine was teh doc as he claimed neighbour and no one said they were his

[bob3141]

In particular can you talk us through your town read on nancy. Why you town read her?

have you read her?

I want you to explain your town read on her. In your own words

[bob3141]

in my own words:

have
you
read
her

What do you read in her. Im asking for your progression on her

[bob3141]

bob, youre like the one slot i have no read on.


its you who should be providing reads, not me.

So you have no progression on Nancy then? It seems liek your trying to dismiss a reasonable question. If you were town then you would be able to provide a reasonable explanation as to how you came to the conclusion that nancy is town. As it is very easy for scum to say they town read x. But much hard to back it up regardless if x is town or scum.

[bob3141]

Nancy if you think hectic is town can you talk us though your read on him at start o f day 1, middle of day oen and at teh end of day one. as well as how it changed though out day one and why?

He realized that I had townslipped, when I and no one else had, so why would scum!Hectic point that out? And based on final VC, his is the only vote on Pine, so he’d have to be an idiot to kill Pine due to that. Is it possible? yes. likely? no.

So you reasoning for hectic being town was that he thought you were town. Is that so? What else otther than him saying you town slipped somethign he said to few players. Changed your mind on him

Why do you think a scum hectic would never say that as scum. And isnt it convenient you stop scum reading a play as soon as you find out they town read you. What from his play do you find marks him as town.


Also what do you think of pops saying that scum wouldnt want to be on that wagon. As town would not be happy the next day.

[bob3141]

bob, youre like the one slot i have no read on.


its you who should be providing reads, not me.

So you have no progression on Nancy then? It seems liek your trying to dismiss a reasonable question. If you were town then you would be able to provide a reasonable explanation as to how you came to the conclusion that nancy is town. As it is very easy for scum to say they town read x. But much hard to back it up regardless if x is town or scum.

wow.

this is incredibly rich. does anyone actually have a read on bob? his activity today has been nothing but posturing for a vote and his stuff yesterday is so inconsequential i cannot remember a single post.

So you dont want to explain your progression on nancy?

If you were town wouldnt it be easy. So if your are dont you think you shoudl explain your reasoning on your town read on nancy. That way everyone can determine if it comes from town or scum

[bob3141]

was just writeing a posts then teh page changed and i lost it all

[bob3141]

Nancy, wont you vote bob?

As for my tr on nancy, the time to ask about that was d1. how awkward to push that when he has no real content and its been implied by . . . a few weeks? . . . of realtime cooperation between the two of us?

So you don't want to answer my question on your progression on nancy. As you say you worked with her but at no point in your iso there is no real reason given why you town read her. Which makes me think you already knew her alignment. I'm simply asking you to explain. Which is something I would expect would be easy for town. If you are town.


As you town read her enough to be in your town block. I could understand if you had her at null or slightly town but no yet in your townblock.

This something that menal too thinks needs to be explained. What is your reasoning. And what in the thread have you seen? What do you think nancy actions indicate alignment wise?

So again menal would like you pisskop to explain what Nancy is doing in your townbloc


and dont just trty to dismiss me again, just like pops kept trying to do

[bob3141]

Also pk menal wants me to tell you pk that he has also also read her in ISO and we agree she's the most likely scum and looks awful from the pops flip.

[bob3141]

Smart have you not read the thread. He already claimed

[bob3141]

pine was my neighbour

[bob3141]

what is with the site that 50% of my posts fail

im going back to making them in word so that i have back up

[bob3141]

What was he saying overnight?

He said that he had his catchup post half written and that he would drop it in there when its done in case he died. But by the looks of it night ended before it was finished.

[bob3141]

He thought it was tvt.

[bob3141]

armum what does skitter think of my slot

Also what do you think of nancy slot

[bob3141]

Memals top two scum reads are piskop and nancy

[bob3141]

@nancy. From menal

Trying to self meta yourself does fuck all for me, as does trying to make me think I’m bad when I’m demonstrably not

Your progression was shit on pops, considering how much you went on about how she was town only to flip onto her once it looked like she was going through, and looks like a badly executed bus

I know because I read your ISO, all over 500 posts of it, which is another reason why you need to die today; so you stop breathing all the oxygen in the thread. In the case that I’m wrong, then it means that scum stop getting to hide behind your drowning out of other voices, which is still a win. However, I think you’re probably just flipping scum

[bob3141]

Armum the question is why did scum lynch him when a pine was possibility the next day.

That was the height of his wagon yesterday

Pine (4) - Hectic, Amrun, Nancy Drew 39, krzay

only 3 other wagons outside of rvs were lynched pops, confirmed eddie and hectic

[bob3141]

These are the wagosn so far

Elsa Jay (4) - NaCl, popsofctown (s), DrDoolittle, Amrun
Hectic (5) - Pine (t), OkaPoka, pisskop, armum, Nancy Drew 39
Hectic (7) - Pine (t), pisskop, Nancy Drew 39, DrDolittle, OkaPoka, titus, elsa
Pine (4) - Hectic, Amrun, Nancy Drew 39, krzay

popsofctown (5) - Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, pisskop, Elsa Jay, titus, oka
eddie - popsofctown, krazy, pisskop. oka

______

popsofctown (5) - Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, Elsa Jay, titus
eddie - popsofctown, krazy, pisskop. oka
__________

eddie - popsofctown, unwnd, pisskop, Elsa Jay, titus


---------

popsofctown (8) - Something_Smart, (b), Eddie Cane (t), Titus, pisskop, Amrun, Elsa Jay, Nancy Drew 39

[bob3141]

Hectic that would work with any player in the game taht didnt know who pines neighbour was. If they thought that pines claim was a fake neighbour claim.

[bob3141]

Nancy that message was from menal.

And that misrep saying i scum read you for post count

[bob3141]

He stopped posting right around when his wagon formed. Now it's completely disintegrated with no further posts from him, I don't think that's normal.

I don't think there's any three person scumteam where I get to feel like I played this game well.

I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to find the three person scumteam on day 1?

Can confirm, he is definitely avoiding this game but that’s NAI for him but we have 6 days, so no harm in pressure voting this.

VOTE: Pine

i vote pops upto l-2 and your ever so eager to jump back on to pines wagon as soon as it gets another vote.

Then your votes only reappear on pops when it pushs him to l-2 again. Prime bussing spot.

Then you unvote before revoting him. Makes me think you hoped teh pops wagon would collapse. But when you saw the unvoting had no effect you hammered him for damage control.

As you dont vote with conviction.

You say should i revote as its gettign really confusing

"Should I revote? This is getting really confusing." exact words

[bob3141]

I think pops might be town tbh. Theyre reads are consistent.

I dont recall pops' scumgame. Anyone have an insight?

Do you think pops would be incapable of faking consistent reads as scum? I don’t.

@Nancy: I’d feel dirty killing that slot today after the emotional replace out, but I’m not really inclined to delay progressing a 100page game for unwind when he doesn’t believe in catch up reading. What are we waiting for, in that instance? It would be easier to get him into the game with a flip or two he can actually discuss.

I just think in a couple of days, we’ll have a much better read on him. Like I’m legit torn, if Krazy was town. I will feel like shit if we mislynch him but if he flips scum. I’m going to be pissed. we allowed him to manipulate us like that. So if we wait two days, we can actually get a clue to his alignment.

The only slots I can see voting rn are Pine/Pops but I would hate to miss out on his Mastina read, should he provide it. I’m null on Pops but if I can’t convince you guys to wait a couple of days to sort unwind, I dunno. :/

here you say your read on pops is null. Exactly when he is getting wagoned. Which makes me beleive you only switched your tune as you didnt want to be on the wrong side of a scum lynch. and we had 4 days to deadlien so town you would have pushed there scum read more or tried to sort pops more

[bob3141]

Nancy that message was from menal.

And that misrep saying i scum read you for post count

Its not, you literally said I need to die for taking up oxygen because of my postcount. I didn’t misrep shit.

You are misrepping as you are saying mine and menal scum read is based on your post count. which it isnt.


But menal does think your post to much. If your town you best of sitting back a bit or its just goign allow scum to hide under teh radar. I think thats what he was tryign to get across.

That and he just thinks your scum

[bob3141]

@armum

Menal has asked me to point out that in the daed thread of tris mini normal game the two of you agreed that my nk were very good. So he asks why do you think i would start making poor choices here?

[bob3141]

One thing apparently no one is considering is that Pops has to know, almost no chance of either Eddie or Amrun being wagoned today, so to the people voting her, consider this. Pops is either town pushing vanity wagons or she’s scum falling on her sword for a teammate. In either case, she probably isn’t the best lynch today.

here you push pops inst teh best wagon

[bob3141]

what do you see nancy?

Well, it looks like Pine was the lead wagon and it suddenly flipped to Pops. And Pops is a smart player, so that’s why I’m saying she’s either town pushing her own sr out of conviction or she’s scum trying to save her buddy, because her play makes really no sense here if neither.

here again your against teh pops wagon

[bob3141]

what do you see nancy?

Well, it looks like Pine was the lead wagon and it suddenly flipped to Pops. And Pops is a smart player, so that’s why I’m saying she’s either town pushing her own sr out of conviction or she’s scum trying to save her buddy, because her play makes really no sense here if neither.

There is of course an outside possibility that she’s scum trying to set Pine up as her buddy but I think that is unlikely. Most scum don’t tend to sacrifice themselves just to get a frame.

here you say pine pops team is unlikely

Yet you still push pine. Thus sayign you dont think pops is scum

[bob3141]

Nancy what if my mystifying play all makes sense if I am seeing a player I think is very likely to be scum getting perceived as very unlikely to be by the town and I think that's so important I'm willing to risk my neck over it? I don't think that's actually confusing.

Well I did say if you were town, it was a conviction read and your wagon seemed to form with lightning speed. Well, that’s why I didn’t jump on it.

here you sayign how you dont liek how fast her wagon formed. You didnt want to eb aprt of pops wagon then

[bob3141]

And also to be perfectly clear, most of Nancy’s interactions with pops were awkward, so bob isn’t factually wrong.

I’m not convinced that makes Nancy scum, though. I think most scum of a certain caliber would avoid such an obvious thing. I want to re-read that.

but certainly means there is case to be answered. When i questioned pops she first tried to just dismiss my line of questioning before she had to answer it. and she flipped scum


All were getting from nancy is ate. She isnt trying to talk us through her action as i expect a towny would do. scum dont like it as when pops finaly answered it showed sure signs she was scum.

[bob3141]

It bothers me that 1966 has this teabagging assumption of reading everything I do as scum but doesn't actually canvas for votes, that might be what Ali means by saying it's a post like he's ahead.

It has been really interesting to see how Ali's approach to town (oh wait I don't have to backspace VT thanks Ed) VT is different and makes me wish maybe I hydra'ed more, though I'm pretty firmly against the unfair advantage element and want pure-hydra-games to come up

@Pops, any idea why this particular post comes across as super awkward?

VOTE: Pops

This is teh first post you mention a scum read of pops nancy. At this point what made you start scum reading pops

[bob3141]

He stopped posting right around when his wagon formed. Now it's completely disintegrated with no further posts from him, I don't think that's normal.

I don't think there's any three person scumteam where I get to feel like I played this game well.

I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to find the three person scumteam on day 1?

Can confirm, he is definitely avoiding this game but that’s NAI for him but we have 6 days, so no harm in pressure voting this.

VOTE: Pine

but you quickly switch back to pine. Can you explain at this point why you didnt stay on pops. Had you stopped scum reading her at this point

[bob3141]

I’m thinking Pops may be town now.

shortly later you say she is town

[bob3141]

Chennis says the NaCl wagon is all town. He said it's a natural response to a long languishing wrongwagon. Idk if I agree with the whole macro view but when I found out he was reading the get again I was gonna ask him who to vote so it saved me a couple keystrokes.

So why are you on it then?

what about her response to this post suddenly made you scum read her again. As

[bob3141]

Fine.

VOTE: Pops

Btw, if Pops flips scum and unwind doesn’t obvtown it, that doesn’t rule out the possibility of scum distancing.

L-2

not long later when pops wagon keeps goign your back on her. what made you switch back to scum reading her from ealier town reading her

[bob3141]

they are L-1 now

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pops

then we had what i talked about earlier. Cant you undersatnd why i woudl want you to explain your progression.

[bob3141]

originally i was going to go through every detail on why nancy thought elsa was town through pt but thats not allowed

but if I were to do that I'd line up hypothetical pt posts and its content and see if Nancy made posts indicating a certain points of views expressed in the pt. I'd mark down in a spreadsheet if Elsa made posts in the pt that expressed points of views Nancy shared before or after Nancy's public posts.

If after = signs of buddying

If before = signs of being townie

Just a hypothetical for anyone with access to the Nancy - Elsa pt :devilface:

I’ve experienced being buddied by scum in a PT and it definitely didn’t feel like this. She hasn’t trying to influence my reads/votes on anything.

How would you say your reads are effecting her reads. When i was scum in pt i used it to pretend my reads were changing due to my neighbour pushing that he was scum in our pt.

Or is the pt look like neither is trying to or appearing to be influenced by the other

[bob3141]

Anyone down for hood claims now? We're talking about PoE soooo

Why do you want more hoods outed so soon?

4 hoods are already out. One had scum in it.

So atleast one hood is unknown to scum.

[bob3141]

I see what you mean, Eddie. But on the other hand, the doc is someone scum have to kill sooner rather than later as it's really bad for an IC to be alive close to endgame. So while doc hunting, which is a 1/2 to a 1/4 for them depending on whether scum are in any of the outed hoods, they could make in-optimal kills if they read a neutral/scummy player as the doc. We shouldn't give them the easy route of killing doc tonight and then killing whoever they please (towniest towns probably) in future nights.

But they aren’t doc hunting because they killed Pine.
Pants on head.

Maybe we should all do a spartacus

[bob3141]

@bob did pine post anything overnight?

Note much. Weve not realy been talking much in it
Just the bit about him being half way through his ctachup post and he was wrong on popsvs eddie. He thought it was tvt

[bob3141]

[

My team has basically cleared Nancy as town, specifically Dann, and I largely agree.

Do you think NaCl is scummy for not voting? That is the read I'm more open to being wrong on.

1.18
My concern is the way the wagon flips. We know Pine and Amrun are town. Most of the non-participants in the top two wagons are town. I also know I'm town. The Pine death was unlikely a doc hunt given his early replies.

1.19
The same names from NaCl form the pops wagon, minus Pine but a bit slower. The first two are locktown. Elsa probably isn't scum due to earlier wagons (which I can elaborate on if needed). So if pops was a bus it would have to be SS or pisskop.

1.20

The NaCl wagon stays static, along with the Pine wagon. We know Pine is town. The question is why wouldn't scum collapse on Pine or NaCl? The best answers seem to be the wagons are overloaded or hard bus.

Given how contentions the Eddie lynch was, I struggle to believe a hard bus happened.

1.22

Eddie wagon springs up instead of scum coalescing on Pine or NaCl. This likely rules out a hard bus. If you disagree, the hard busser has to be SS. However, it seems more likely scum would jump on his neighbor because pops flipping scum would conftown Eddie. Having a dead Eddie first is a huge boon.

The big thought is why not jump on Pine or NaCl. My guess is Nancy did but no town followed. Given scum saw the stall, they jumped on Eddie instead.

1.25

OkaPoka jumps off Eddie to join me on Dr.Doolittle. This may be wrong but Oka is jumping off the best mislynch to join me. That strongly suggests he's town.

1.End

Nancy votes various wagons as they form, including unwind as his wagon forms. She winds up on Pops after his lynch is inevitable. The only wagon she doesn't really vote NaCl. Nancy's been really sheepy though.



I am thinking Nancy + NaCl OR pisskop and ?.

VOTE: Nancy

Titus what do you think of nancy responses to my questions on the progression of her pops read. I wanted to see what responses she would come back with on why and how she choose to town read or scum read pops

[bob3141]

Titus, i really think it's elsa over Nancy

You think its elsa over nancy but how like do you think it is that elsa is infact scum. and its simply a town hood as nancy being town doesnt require elsa to be scum.

[bob3141]

Votecount 1.02

Elsa Jay (3) -

NaCl, popsofctown, DrDoolittle

Titus (1) -

Elsa Jay

Nancy Drew 30 (1) -

OkaPoka

Hectic (1) -

Krazy

DrDolittle (1) -

Nancy Drew 39

Not Voting (8) -

Eddie Cane, Titus, Something_Smart, Pine, Hectic, pisskop, Amrun, bob3141

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Votecount 1.15

Pine (3) -

Hectic, Amrun, Krazy

NaCl (3) -

Pine, pisskop, Titus

Hectic (2) -

Elsa Jay, Nancy Drew 39

OkaPoka (1) -

NaCl

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Amrun (1) -

popsofctown

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Krazy (1) -

Eddie Cane

DrDolittle (1) -

OkaPoka

Not Voting (1) -

Something_Smart

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Here's two reasons why I disagree.

Scum are unlikely to bus early in RVS, as the attention to the slot is bad in a game like this. Second, most everyone was against outing the hoods. Putting pressure on Elsa indirectly supports my idea.

Second is Nancy's movement. Nancy hard townreads Elsa. So her vote makes sense in thread context. Yet the NaCl wagon is a thing. Nancy sheeps a lot if wagons on the back end but avoids the NaCl one.

You think scum are unlikely to bus early. But why do you think that also. And how do you think it effects your read on your two players your pushing in this post. elsa and nancy. Also are you dismissing any pairings because they voted for each otehr early?

so what about nancy vote movements makes you think she is scum and why only come out with it now?

Why do you think a player hard town reading another means they must be scum. As cant a player see something that changes there mind as the game goes on. And what leaves you to teh conclusion that nancy read switch must mean she is scum rather than town changing her mind?


But what do you think of the nacl wagon? Tell us what you think of very player that voted for nacl and what you think of their reads?

[bob3141]

our hood is short but content full

You say content full. Where you sharing reads and who was pushign their reads teh most

[bob3141]

VOTE: Piskop

At the moment im thinking this are best bet at catching scum today. Of the two players i questioned in weekend i didnt like his responses. While nancy actual leave me thinking she is more likely town than scum.

[bob3141]

Votecount 1.02

Elsa Jay (3) -

NaCl, popsofctown, DrDoolittle

Titus (1) -

Elsa Jay

Nancy Drew 30 (1) -

OkaPoka

Hectic (1) -

Krazy

DrDolittle (1) -

Nancy Drew 39

Not Voting (8) -

Eddie Cane, Titus, Something_Smart, Pine, Hectic, pisskop, Amrun, bob3141

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Votecount 1.15

Pine (3) -

Hectic, Amrun, Krazy

NaCl (3) -

Pine, pisskop, Titus

Hectic (2) -

Elsa Jay, Nancy Drew 39

OkaPoka (1) -

NaCl

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Amrun (1) -

popsofctown

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Krazy (1) -

Eddie Cane

DrDolittle (1) -

OkaPoka

Not Voting (1) -

Something_Smart

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Here's two reasons why I disagree.

Scum are unlikely to bus early in RVS, as the attention to the slot is bad in a game like this. Second, most everyone was against outing the hoods. Putting pressure on Elsa indirectly supports my idea.

Second is Nancy's movement. Nancy hard townreads Elsa. So her vote makes sense in thread context. Yet the NaCl wagon is a thing. Nancy sheeps a lot if wagons on the back end but avoids the NaCl one.

You think scum are unlikely to bus early. But why do you think that also. And how do you think it effects your read on your two players your pushing in this post. elsa and nancy. Also are you dismissing any pairings because they voted for each otehr early?

so what about nancy vote movements makes you think she is scum and why only come out with it now?

Why do you think a player hard town reading another means they must be scum. As cant a player see something that changes there mind as the game goes on. And what leaves you to teh conclusion that nancy read switch must mean she is scum rather than town changing her mind?


But what do you think of the nacl wagon? Tell us what you think of very player that voted for nacl and what you think of their reads?

I am NOT pushing Elsa, I am suggesting elsa is town.

As for why Nancy, I can't do any VCA without a flip. It feels like you're suggesting my push is somehow disingenuous because of that.

I don't think a player hard townreading another player has to be scum. I don't know where you got that.

It's the players who Nancy didn't vote that give rise to my suspicion, not who she did.

So which wagons did as you nancy not got for and why do you find that suspicous.

[bob3141]

Votecount 1.02

Elsa Jay (3) -

NaCl, popsofctown, DrDoolittle

Titus (1) -

Elsa Jay

Nancy Drew 30 (1) -

OkaPoka

Hectic (1) -

Krazy

DrDolittle (1) -

Nancy Drew 39

Not Voting (8) -

Eddie Cane, Titus, Something_Smart, Pine, Hectic, pisskop, Amrun, bob3141

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Votecount 1.15

Pine (3) -

Hectic, Amrun, Krazy

NaCl (3) -

Pine, pisskop, Titus

Hectic (2) -

Elsa Jay, Nancy Drew 39

OkaPoka (1) -

NaCl

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Amrun (1) -

popsofctown

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Krazy (1) -

Eddie Cane

DrDolittle (1) -

OkaPoka

Not Voting (1) -

Something_Smart

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Here's two reasons why I disagree.

Scum are unlikely to bus early in RVS, as the attention to the slot is bad in a game like this. Second, most everyone was against outing the hoods. Putting pressure on Elsa indirectly supports my idea.

Second is Nancy's movement. Nancy hard townreads Elsa. So her vote makes sense in thread context. Yet the NaCl wagon is a thing. Nancy sheeps a lot if wagons on the back end but avoids the NaCl one.

You think scum are unlikely to bus early. But why do you think that also. And how do you think it effects your read on your two players your pushing in this post. elsa and nancy. Also are you dismissing any pairings because they voted for each otehr early?

so what about nancy vote movements makes you think she is scum and why only come out with it now?

Why do you think a player hard town reading another means they must be scum. As cant a player see something that changes there mind as the game goes on. And what leaves you to teh conclusion that nancy read switch must mean she is scum rather than town changing her mind?


But what do you think of the nacl wagon? Tell us what you think of very player that voted for nacl and what you think of their reads?

I am NOT pushing Elsa, I am suggesting elsa is town.

As for why Nancy, I can't do any VCA without a flip. It feels like you're suggesting my push is somehow disingenuous because of that.

I don't think a player hard townreading another player has to be scum. I don't know where you got that.

It's the players who Nancy didn't vote that give rise to my suspicion, not who she did.

So which wagons did as you nancy not got for and why do you find that suspicous.

Nancy, I can't factor in OOG influences. That'll get you banned.

Nancy got on Hectic, Pine, and almost every other wagon but NaCl that went to 3+.

But what leads you to the conclusion based of that nancy is scum. Are you saying nacl is scum as your saying the fact nancy didnt vote for him marks her for scum. So is that the reason you think nancy is scum.

What do you think of her votes on hetic, pine and the oterhs as you put it.

thats the nacl wagon. I see your on it but why do you think now nacl is scum and how has that progressed through out teh game.

[bob3141]

Titus whats your read on me?

[bob3141]

titus how did you pops read progress through out day one and what was your own reason you came to the conclusion she was scum. I onyl ever see you mnetion that you scum read her or possibile teams with her in. But never how you came to concusionn that she was in fact scum.

As we now know from day ones flip

[bob3141]

mm for now UNVOTE:

not liking taht most of teh players i town read are on piskop counter wagon. Will have to see why the late joiners joined

[bob3141]

what with teh talk of deadline. This day phase has only been going on for 5-6 days and as nancy has pinted out we still have 8 and half days

[bob3141]

You sure? My counting could be off. Is it bad if I don't care anyway?

piskop was the 6th vote. He just revoted so your still on 6

[bob3141]

popsofctown (5) - Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, Elsa Jay, titus
eddie - popsofctown (s), krazy (s), pisskop. oka

these were two wagons when eddie and pops awere goign head to head.

Could we have had a full scum team pushign pops over eddie during that first pops wagon.

[bob3141]

What makes unwind, “core town”?

I think theyre highly unlikely to be scum.

krazy was pretty town, imo. i think theyre less likely scum than hectic.

[bob3141]

So piskop what was the reason you scum read unwind

on unwind thats the only post where he is directly mentioned (via search of unwind)

ill have to check for krazy but during unwind the last real read you gave was saying unwind was unlikely scum because krazy was very townie

[bob3141]

OK, could you ISO Eddie and look at his interactions with you and Pops (he hard scumreads you both), and tell us what you think of his alignment?

Do you think Eddie / Me is SvT?

I think Pops/Eddie was TvS

Youre town who got into fisticuffs

Based on?

Which one?

Eddie v pops is because they share a hood, eddie is trolling, and pops is admittedly acting funny.

Krazy is town because they feel and contribuite like it. I have no meta on Krazy, but like their play. Their early game was weak, but the stuff from before he voted eddie is gold.

what do you think on this now that krazy/unwind infact flipped scum?

[bob3141]

Did you search for "unwnd" as well?

that migth be it i can see more. will have to read

[bob3141]

swap tirus and ss around
put piss up with oka
move unwnd down one tier

okapoka, eddie, ddl, pisskop, nancy
s_s, amrun
titus, unwnd, bob
nacl, elsa, hectic

unwnd is justa shitty comprise

@Piss and @ anybody else who has unwnd as townish

I felt krazy was townspewing. Once i decided he was a townlean it kind of snowballed. I think unwnd has a lot of that charisma

unwnd is in any case a counter to a counter wagon at this point. I think Ive underestimated the methodology oka has employed here and he's gathering reads, but the wagon itself is a compromise.

okapoka, eddie, ddl, pisskop, nancy
s_s, amrun
titus, unwnd, bob
nacl, elsa, hectic

Why am I higher than SS and Amrun?

I think you're most likely out of your scum range.

Spoiler: .

Okay, let's look at it a different way I suppose.

12 of us have neighborhoods, so 6 in total. 3 scum, 1 in each neighborhood. 3/6.

I've been informed math is scummy VOTE: Elsa Jay

A little late for what feels like an RVS vote? Maybe this was an attempt to progress the game?

I see no harm in making my tardy RVS vote during my catchup.

fair.

Not how buddies interact.

Pops gimme an eddie case

Again, pushing other peoples agenda is not how somebody interacts with a buddy.

I said he would endgame me, and he quoted me saying he would endgame me and said "get fucked kid"

that is bragging about endgaming me

But i mean, saying that to a not dead player is tantamount to suicide?

My interactions with pops are not ones designed to save pops, nor push another agenda. This is where I point how pops' claim to be trolled is inconsistent with how scum play.

Spoiler: .

that weird interaction wrt the boasting in the hood and pops not vioting eddie until now tho. whats up pops? y no vote b4?

VOTE: eddie

ill revote to flip pops, but I think this is the new flavor of the week.

My reasons for going after eddie here are for his

self-admitted

scummy play d1. Pops being eddies neighbour precludes pops and eddie being scum. either or.

OK, could you ISO Eddie and look at his interactions with you and Pops (he hard scumreads you both), and tell us what you think of his alignment?

Do you think Eddie / Me is SvT?

I think Pops/Eddie was TvS

Youre town who got into fisticuffs

Here Im clearly indicting that im sorting both players.

OK, could you ISO Eddie and look at his interactions with you and Pops (he hard scumreads you both), and tell us what you think of his alignment?

Do you think Eddie / Me is SvT?

I think Pops/Eddie was TvS

Youre town who got into fisticuffs

Based on?

Which one?

Eddie v pops is because they share a hood, eddie is trolling, and pops is admittedly acting funny.

Krazy is town because they feel and contribuite like it. I have no meta on Krazy, but like their play. Their early game was weak, but the stuff from before he voted eddie is gold.

And i share my views on eddie pops, continuing to focus on the pair. I may not have a definite side chosen here, but unless youre claiming i bussed pops

indirectly

theres no scum value in trying to ML eddy when pops looks like shit for it and i cant maneuver out of a pops lynch. In which case why be so indirect about pops?

Spoiler: .

I think pops might be town tbh. Theyre reads are consistent.

I dont recall pops' scumgame. Anyone have an insight?

Pops Piss Pine would be a wild solve

but not a

Krazy

solve . . .

And here I doend up siding with pops. Theyre pocketing me fairly hard, btw, and you can see it, especially at the EoD here:

VOTE: salt because I liked pisskop's meme.

lets be perfectly clear that any potential associations and buddying is all one sided, EDDIE AND POLKA

Ive already promised a certain lady id vote pops to flip them and move this train along.

Well the question is is pops antispewing

no the question is: are they scum?

And finally, this is where I reiterate, as in have multiple times, that I am willing to take pops. And Im willing to engage over them.

Krazy Pops has a nice ring to it tho!

VOTE: salt

elsa, titus, dolittle, nacl

^^

id like more out of these explicitly.

because the core town here is

- ND
- oka
- piss
- amrun
- unwnd
- SS

- eddie


leaving

- hecktic
- bob
- nacl
- elsa
- doodles
- titus

besides, I dont TR nacl, and would happily send him off.

he just isn really in the spotlight today

Can we not do the games? We outed, now Im thinking Bob/nacl/elsa/heck

okapoka, eddie, ddl, pisskop, nancy
s_s, amrun
titus, unwnd, bob
nacl, elsa, hectic

Same to the whole of the unwnd wagon.

Time to shore up those votes.

You know if it is nacl/unwnd id owe elsa a small apology.

SS do you TR Elsa?

Maybe a little?

id join unwnd

VOTE: unwnd

if bob is scummy, he is scummy of his own merit and deserves his own wagon. pairing my sr with me is garbo

Isn’t there 2 left now?

the implication is that unwnd is one of the two and the other is not on it.

VOTE: unwnd

Finally. That was gonna be an unwnd hammer but then I saw our doctor wanted to get some last words in. So.

unwnd has said all theyll say. their latest posts have all been about arguing with nancy, calling me town, and not too much else?

VOTE: unwnd

I think thats piskop posts relating to unwind during the wagon

[bob3141]

piskop can you talk us through these to tell us how you town read on unwind/krzay went from town to scum.

And what you meant by unwind being a bad compromise wagon. At that point what did you feel was the likely hood that uwind was scum

[bob3141]

elsa - unwnd, Hectic, OkaPoka (t), pisskop
piskop-DrDolittle, Nancy Drew 39, bob3141, NaCl

i think thats when elsa and piskop wagons were competing. With unwind involved in elsa and not piskop


piskop if you are town why would you think unwind would choose to push elsa lynch over your own.

[bob3141]

Bob, I dont have many rights to complain, but could you please spoiler tag the quote Well next time?

how do you do that

[bob3141]

Spoiler: Quote Wall

testing testing

[bob3141]

Eddie, Oka, NaCl are ICs.
Nancy's interactions with Krazy are not SvS.
Titus is not scum.
Amrun (probably) was not hard bussing.

You need to find another town in DDL and SS to have proper auto, but honestly, I think both are town and the game will not go that far. Dunno who I'd pick in a DDL SS + Amrun/Nancy/Titus f3, but that hypothetical world would not be my decision. The more I read, the more I think it just is not going to get there.

Piss has some individual townie posts but awful associations and game positioning.
Elsa is a nonfactor.
Hectic has more highs and more lows than Piss. But more independent posts that sound town I think.
Bob... still sounds like a script rather than a player. Still dunno if I agree he should die before the above 3.

what is with everyone saying i sound like a robot. Im not a robot

[bob3141]

yeah VOTE: bob

like rn we have 11 town and 1 scum. Plus your TM partners, that's 44 town players. I don't think there's a single person that thinks bob is town. Meanwhile, I have seen floating pisskop-town reads from amrun and some other teammates

bob's play is so robotic here, and the interaction w/ pops, unwnd is honestly not great either if you'd care to take a look.

what about my play and post makes you think im not town

how is my interaction with pops bad. How could my posts be any other way

[bob3141]

why is everyone in such a hurry to lynch people. Last day was barley two days in.

[bob3141]

titus -N- Hectic
eddie (t) -N- pops (s)
Pine (t) - N - bob (b)
elsa - N - Nancy
oka (t) - N- unwind (s)
amrun - N - piskop (t)
smart - N- drd

now minus the resolved neighbourhoods from scum lynches

titus -N- Hectic
Pine (t) - N - bob (b)
elsa - N - Nancy
amrun - N - piskop (t)
smart - N- drd


now i know im town

titus -N- Hectic
elsa - N - Nancy
amrun - N - piskop (t)
smart - N- drd

now as its stands nancy and armum are town reads. With smart bing a town read but not as strong

So

titus ? -N- Hectic ?
elsa ?- N - Nancy (t)
smart (t) - N- drd ?

[bob3141]

now neither flipped scum wee on any of the hectic wagons

Hectic (5) - Pine (t), OkaPoka (t), pisskop (t), armum, Nancy Drew 39 (x)
Hectic (7) - Pine (t), pisskop (t), Nancy Drew 39(x), DrDolittle (t), OkaPoka (t), titus, elsa

Does this mean hectic is scum, titus or elsa is scum. Or that all 3 scum were off it.

As when pops tried to back up her push on armum

"As for Amrun allowing Hectic to live, my read of the situation was that Amrun felt that Hectic wagon would be an unpopular event D2 and hopped off of it. I don't see the two as buddies."

was this her personal view?

[bob3141]

As in could pops have been projecting her teams view on hectic lynch in order to push armum.

[bob3141]

yep that was part of the case that pops tried to push against armum when backing up her ealier push. Its what convinced me for sure that pops was scum at that point.

now if armum and you nancy are both as currently think town.

That leaves the first wagon with 5 townies on and 5 in teh first 5 places on the second.

So was hectic actual scum and scum stayed away or does that comment hold some truth and scum simply stayed away.

[bob3141]

It was in jest, Eddie. I know it's completely unreasonable to think there's another layer to this doc gambit. I would never kill Oka there, it's a newbish kill that kinda rules out Titus and Amrun even more as scum, and points more towards me scum since I'm relatively new here. That's ignoring the fact you risk getting blocked and giving town an extra lynch.

Bob posting that VC reminded me both pops and Krazy were off my 7 wagon. I'd be surprised if all 3 stayed off it. But Bob, you're asking some open ended questions here but what's YOUR conclusion from that VCA?

its not vca. This one needs audience precipitation. I want to know what different players think on the hectic wagon. If they think one scum was on it, if your scum now or if scum were absent

that way i can get read of thier own views

[bob3141]

VOTE: pops

l1

hmm

what

i dont like it

saw this little extract. Im failing to see why a scum player would associate them selves both with l-1 vote on their partner. as well as that vote being made with another partners neighbout who could become confirmed town


so for that and other reads i think drd is a slight town read for me

[bob3141]

Can anyone voting me answer why on you think a scum me would allow a pine night kill. As far as i can tell the only case against me so far is simply poe lynch.

Before the end of day one i was talking about it being suspect should a players neighbour be killed. As i though pine at that time could be scum trying to get me lynched. So of all the players im teh only one at that time saying scum migth kill their neighbour before their own flip. So why would i even mention such stuff. When the very next day it could be used against me.

Not only that but I would know that since pine is my neighbour that pine wouldnt be the doc. So what reason left for scum team including me would their be to kill pine.

So why kill him over taking a pot shot looking to hit the doc. And player who's very death would make me look bad.

[bob3141]

no

[bob3141]

i dont know if i should feel insulted that 5 players would think a scum me would kill pine n1

[bob3141]

i would have gone after the doc.

[bob3141]

n1 i was thinking nacl is eitehr scum or the doc. So if I had been scum nacl would have died n1

[bob3141]

and a pien nk would of just made me look bad. when his scum read was weak and in teh night he had decided i was town

[bob3141]

Why were you docreading NaCl back then?

he played like doc in prior game. although more towny posts than him.

he showed up as player trying to avoid attention but not because he was scum. although drd claim did make me think he might be scum in the the last night.

[bob3141]

the fact it was known in the thread that we wernt talk much should be meta sign that no one would notice. but teh player on farks team. ( dont know if that team has player in this one)

I used teh neighbour thread to heavily pocket him with me only losing from mech solve

[bob3141]

not saying it was bad for unwind. As it was.

[bob3141]

drd i was already hammered

Nancy Drew 39, Amrun, DrDolittle, elsa , titus

[bob3141]

as it stand i think elsa is most likely scum candidate

[bob3141]

i think hectic is less like scum of any poe. As though the two confirmed scum never joined it. They were indirectly pushing it. They dont come out in support of lycnhign hectic but they to claim town reads on the pushers or saying well i guess that does support a hectic lynch.

No real sign of them trying to push away from lynching hectic. Yet neither a sign of them bussing.

[bob3141]

titus unvoted in 4326

titus vote was teh hammer

[bob3141]

lol wait drd you are right. I assumed its was 5 votes to lynch

[bob3141]

unwnd (7) - Amrun, Eddie Cane (t), Something_Smart, DrDolittle , Hectic, pisskop, OkaPoka (t)

that was the unwnd wagon.

players not on it titus, elsa and me

you have hectic and drd on it.


my gut is saying unwnd wagon is all town

[bob3141]

then you have wagon before it

pisskop (6) - DrDolittle , bob3141 (b), NaCl, Titus, Nancy Drew 39, Elsa Jay

now one of biggest reasons i unvoted is that i didnt like those later votes.

[bob3141]

VOTE: unwnd

this vote leaves me feeling drd is town. Although the wagon had already dropped to 4.

that was still ahead of unwnd by one vote and tied with elsa wagon.

If drd is scum i cant see why he would vote unwnd. Sure he could get town cred but concidering unwnd was on the tipping point. His vote pushed him over.

Were as he coudl of voted elsa and pushed her over teh edge and still of smelt of roses. After all hadnt he had claimed doc at that point. So no one would of suspected a thing.

And he could always of killed nacl and claimed it was a failed gambit

[bob3141]

If you look when piskop got to l-1 elsa was just lurking. Feels to me liek scum simply waiting and hoping it tips over without her needign to get his hands to dirty.


while you had titus actively trying to get nacl wagon going with his target piskop.


all in all i think elsa is last scum.


VOTE: elsa

[bob3141]

first i see we are already on l-1. i think we shoudl take atleast a few days at the min to discuss this. I find it odd hectic would push it to l-1 so soon into the day.

[bob3141]

we have that first hectic wagon that got to l-1 that so far has had zero flipped scum on it. with teh only players left on it being titus and nancy. both of which i feel are both town.

So either scum avoided that wagon or hectic is in fact scum.

[bob3141]

we have that first hectic wagon that got to l-1 that so far has had zero flipped scum on it. with teh only players left on it being titus and nancy. both of which i feel are both town.

So either scum avoided that wagon or hectic is in fact scum.

So which one are you leaning towards, Bob?

Hectic can you explain why no scum woudl be on your wagon. As if you beleive nacl is scum then you must have soem reasoning why scum woudl avoid your wagon.


As its clear that pops try to provide reasoning armum wouldnt be on it. In way its looking like that she could push mislynch of armum and at teh same time push you as town.


So if you are town why do you think scum didnt even vote you once past rvs. With teh only vote beign in rvs by krzay with his first post and that was gone before teh games second day

[bob3141]

Hectic can you explain why no scum woudl be on your wagon. As if you beleive nacl is scum then you must have soem reasoning why scum woudl avoid your wagon.


As its clear that pops try to provide reasoning armum wouldnt be on it. In way its looking like that she could push mislynch of armum and at teh same time push you as town.


So if you are town why do you think scum didnt even vote you once past rvs. With teh only vote beign in rvs by krzay with his first post and that was gone before teh games second day

I think I was being pushed for being inactive/joking around too much early, so scum didn't really need to do any pushing. I think Pops and Krazy both saw me as the likely mislynch for the day so stayed off while soft-defending me, but not actually trying to stop the wagon in any way.

So why do you think when unwnd scum read you at one point he never once voted for you

[bob3141]

if nacl was scum i would of thought smart would have died. If you think about it being drd neighbour he would know that smart was teh doc. And with smart being a general townread would we realy think it was nacl.

And even nacl didnt want to. wouldnt he of killed someone else inorder to try an dmake drd look bad

[bob3141]

If NaCl is scum and knows SS is the doc night 2, killing him kinda incriminate him. So maybe he goes for the IC Oka kill instead which gets blocked. And then targets him again for the guaranteed kill in night 3.

So why in your opinion wouldnt scum go for unconfirmed but roundly town read player then.

you had smart, nancy, armum.


at that point why risk a nk when he woudl have had atleast 5 nk to go.

with 2 confirmed and one doc. Thats one free nk that has chance of killing a named townie.

[bob3141]

Because the first nokill doesn't matter, Bob. We still have the same amount of lynches.
And the second time he targets Oka, there's no risk because he knows it's blocked the previous night.

So what your saying is that oka was kill during the night of the no kill. Why do you think nacl would nk oka before edie.

[bob3141]

Because the first nokill doesn't matter, Bob. We still have the same amount of lynches.
And the second time he targets Oka, there's no risk because he knows it's blocked the previous night.

So what your saying is that oka was kill during the night of the no kill. Why do you think nacl would nk oka before edie.

Don't know. They were both IC.

but in your opinion why one over the other. If as you say scum has to choices then in your opinion what would the tie break be

[bob3141]

Could you take a stance on me? You've kinda dodged my questions with more questions the last 3 times I've asked you.

isnt it obvous. i thnk your the last scum.

i cant see nancy or armum being scum

i think titus and drd are town.

leaving only you and nacl.

now im think why oka. who benifited the most. Your saying oka was targeted twice.

so why oka over eddie. There is teh issue of teh doc but assuming who ever the the scum was smelt something was off. Why do you think in your opinion nacl would kill oka before eddie

[bob3141]

We only have 3 lynches.

Yeah, which is why I said my 2 choices for who dies apart from me. The level of confidence on Bob isn't that much greater but it is greater. And I've changed my mind on Titus but I don't see the Okapoka kill coming from Bob, I don't see it coming from DDL, and if I'm wrong on Hectic I'm not really sure who it is. But Titus had been scumreading me all game and if she was scum she probably would have hammered me already.

I can't see NaCl scum and the shot on me whiffing

If NaCl is scum and knows SS is the doc night 2, killing him kinda incriminate him. So maybe he goes for the IC Oka kill instead which gets blocked. And then targets him again for the guaranteed kill in night 3.

Besides the fact that I'm not scum, I don't think S_S would have protected Oka over DDL in that situation. And S_S didn't no protect, as if that was the case he would have just revealed as the real doc and we'd have lynched DDL immediately on D3.

Wait, but why did you claim doc yesterday in the first place, NaCl?

I claimed it D3 in order to bait the kill or get protected again, whatever S_S decided.

as of now

i think the 3 kills are bob / hectic / nacl

if anybody has a strong preference to swap that pool, speak up. swapping yourself out is not an option.

I don't really think bob should be in there, but I'm still not sure who should go instead. I don't see bob scum for the reason that the Okapoka kill doesn't make sense, it's more likely to come from safe scum over cornered scum. I guess it's most likely DDL out of who remains but I feel much better about Hectic.

Also, I hope no one is buying this whole theory that I (or for that matter, any scum) targeted Okapoka N2. Because I don't think S_S is bad enough to do that protect in that situation over DDL, and I can see it happening that the following day after my townflip Hectic uses this to push on DDL.

nacl why do you think smart would not of protected oka

[bob3141]

i think hectic is less like scum of any poe. As though the two confirmed scum never joined it. They were indirectly pushing it. They dont come out in support of lycnhign hectic but they to claim town reads on the pushers or saying well i guess that does support a hectic lynch.

No real sign of them trying to push away from lynching hectic. Yet neither a sign of them bussing.

What changed from here, Bob?
Also, I don't understand why Oka over Eddie matters. I guess Eddie's a little more scary for catching 2 scum day 1, but it's basically a 50/50 on targeting one of the 2 ICs for scum!NaCl.

that poe was you and elsa.

Either way i cant see scum being outside of you and nacl. Trying to figure which one of you it is.

[bob3141]

nacl at teh time of pops lynch what was your view on her and why were you not interested in being on her lynch

[bob3141]

We only have 3 lynches.

Yeah, which is why I said my 2 choices for who dies apart from me. The level of confidence on Bob isn't that much greater but it is greater. And I've changed my mind on Titus but I don't see the Okapoka kill coming from Bob, I don't see it coming from DDL, and if I'm wrong on Hectic I'm not really sure who it is. But Titus had been scumreading me all game and if she was scum she probably would have hammered me already.

I can't see NaCl scum and the shot on me whiffing

If NaCl is scum and knows SS is the doc night 2, killing him kinda incriminate him. So maybe he goes for the IC Oka kill instead which gets blocked. And then targets him again for the guaranteed kill in night 3.

Besides the fact that I'm not scum, I don't think S_S would have protected Oka over DDL in that situation. And S_S didn't no protect, as if that was the case he would have just revealed as the real doc and we'd have lynched DDL immediately on D3.

Wait, but why did you claim doc yesterday in the first place, NaCl?

I claimed it D3 in order to bait the kill or get protected again, whatever S_S decided.

as of now

i think the 3 kills are bob / hectic / nacl

if anybody has a strong preference to swap that pool, speak up. swapping yourself out is not an option.

I don't really think bob should be in there, but I'm still not sure who should go instead. I don't see bob scum for the reason that the Okapoka kill doesn't make sense, it's more likely to come from safe scum over cornered scum. I guess it's most likely DDL out of who remains but I feel much better about Hectic.

Also, I hope no one is buying this whole theory that I (or for that matter, any scum) targeted Okapoka N2. Because I don't think S_S is bad enough to do that protect in that situation over DDL, and I can see it happening that the following day after my townflip Hectic uses this to push on DDL.

also the way i read this is that you want me in lylo.

you need to kill eddie, named townie.

That means nancy, armum will be in lylo.

thus how do we not know you simply want me out of any poe simply so that you have me as lylo mislynch.

[bob3141]

now since nancy and armum are widely town read. if one of those is named townie then you simply kill the person not interested in my lynch. or one of them

leaving it somathing liek nancy/arurm, nacl, bob, drd

[bob3141]

i think we should lynch one of hectic and nacl today. if we get it wrong although i know im town to be honest your best of lynching me lynch before lylo as i rather not be lylo mislynch.

[bob3141]

Votecount 2.10

Elsa Jay (4) -

unwnd, Hectic, OkaPoka, pisskop

pisskop (4) -

DrDolittle, Nancy Drew 39, bob3141, NaCl

NaCl (2) -

Titus, Elsa Jay

unwnd (1) -

Amrun

Not Voting (2) -

Something_Smart, Eddie Cane

With 13 players alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2020-01-28 02:10:00).

VOTE: NaCl

We know scum realistically shouldn't care because these are TvT wagons. Unwnd scum is already on Elsa, making it highly unlikely the partner is.

I'm supposing Amrun is not likely to bus, given the situation.

Everyone else off the two major wagon is high probably town or conftown.

That leaves DDL, Nancy, Bob and NaCl.

I don't care to vote Nancy or DDL.

4 players wagons have a high chance of having atleast one scum on them. esp in my opinion when the 2 opposing wagons are town town. You see one scum push one and another teh other.


Make sure you kill nacl before lylo.


hectics responses to questions today were good whiel nacl are just bad. and just look like positioning

VOTE: nacl

[bob3141]

you don't think hectic's most recent posts are shit?

I think Hectic's posts haven't been too great but there are times where I see a move that I think scum-Hectic would make but Hectic is specifically not making those actions. The wagon is generally pretty badly done. Although if he is scum then I think pops is more likely to be town due to 968.

Nancy you always have an expectation of people treating you as obvtown and I'm hoping that if even your teammates can't explain why you are obvtown you will stop beating our heads over not locking you town.

Idk what to say nacl if you don't like what I've had to say then unlucky

Fine. VOTE: Okapoka Farkran says your posting doesn't have any depth to it ( mostly agree) and whenever I try and get a better grip on your thought process you clearly don't want to help me with that.

@NACL why aren't you voting? Too salty? (Sorry couldn't resist the pun.)

See my previous response to Krazy, same thing.

this is very good actually

i want

<elsa,nacl,ddl,bob,amrun> to take sides and comment on this

Okay, so pops vs Eddie, I don't think outing the neighborhood makes Eddie scum. Like, I get that Eddie can do it if he's careless scum but pops' argument doesn't make sense since he can also do it if he's annoyed town and I don't see why pops is reading into it in that way. It feels forced.
I initially liked pops for her earlier play because it didn't feel like it was scum-her and I think I actually know how she is as scum, unlike most people here. But the vote on Eddie feels like a reach.


Regarding the Hectic wagon, I'm not super opposed to it, but I disagree with the reasoning behind it. Mostly for Nancy's issue. Because from what I'm reading from Hectic's posts, he doesn't seem to understand the issue with the question he was asking. Nancy, do you think he's faking that he doesn't understand? I think it would be easier for scum to just say, "oops, I didn't realize" and then stop pushing on it instead of continuing to try talking to you.

This whoooole post sets off alarms. Salt is undermining a near-universally Townread player while weakly affirming the wagon (that that player) is on. There's a whole lot of unnatural solviness (yes I just made up a word) there. "I don't disagree with your vote, but let me now try to build a case against one of the people on that wagon" is a classic scum misdirect-while-hedging play.

That's nice and all, but that doesn't refute what I'm saying. Like, I'm specifically saying that I don't see scum motivation in Hectic's actions. I don't think Hectic has done a single thing worth defending him for, I just think that the wagon is mixed full of people with bad reasons like you and ND, and scum who is going along for the ride (Okapoka, far less sure on Pisskop). If Hectic does flips scum, yeah, sure, I'll have to change. And my case on Okapoka has nothing to do with the Hectic wagon.

Like are you trying to ignore my point? Unless your reasons have changed on Hectic, I still don't think that most of the stuff people are talking about are scummy.

Nancy you always have an expectation of people treating you as obvtown and I'm hoping that if even your teammates can't explain why you are obvtown you will stop beating our heads over not locking you town.

Idk what to say nacl if you don't like what I've had to say then unlucky

Fine. VOTE: Okapoka Farkran says your posting doesn't have any depth to it ( mostly agree) and whenever I try and get a better grip on your thought process you clearly don't want to help me with that.

@NACL why aren't you voting? Too salty? (Sorry couldn't resist the pun.)

See my previous response to Krazy, same thing.

this is very good actually

i want

<elsa,nacl,ddl,bob,amrun> to take sides and comment on this

Okay, so pops vs Eddie, I don't think outing the neighborhood makes Eddie scum. Like, I get that Eddie can do it if he's careless scum but pops' argument doesn't make sense since he can also do it if he's annoyed town and I don't see why pops is reading into it in that way. It feels forced.
I initially liked pops for her earlier play because it didn't feel like it was scum-her and I think I actually know how she is as scum, unlike most people here. But the vote on Eddie feels like a reach.


Regarding the Hectic wagon, I'm not super opposed to it, but I disagree with the reasoning behind it. Mostly for Nancy's issue. Because from what I'm reading from Hectic's posts, he doesn't seem to understand the issue with the question he was asking. Nancy, do you think he's faking that he doesn't understand? I think it would be easier for scum to just say, "oops, I didn't realize" and then stop pushing on it instead of continuing to try talking to you.

It’s definitely possible but that isn’t why I’m voting him but when I tell someone that I’m concerned that answering something could be antitown, I don’t know why they don’t back off either. One thing is clear. Hectic and Pine are never buddies here.

However, why Oka? He is so obviously town. This vote may possibly be town indicative for you however, since there’s pretty much no chance we’re flipping Oka today.

1. I don't think that setup discussion is alignment indicative most of the time which is his oldest posts.
2. He's posting a lot of opinions but isn't really backing them up. Too many of his posts are like "I think X" and is missing the "I think X because _". He goes on about Krazy scum and when I try to push deeper on it, he abandons the read. And the entire time I've been trying to get a better understanding of his thoughts, he's been sidestepping my question. He was deliberately avoiding me advance my read on him.

notice the first bit. nacl is pushing a town pops due to her stance on hectic wagon. A player that later hinted scum did not want to be on hectics wagon. And he is using to push a town read on confirmed scum (after flip).