SIR Disease Mafia - Game Over!

[davesaz]

Come on yall. I'm so scummy for asking a legit question? This is what mafia is all about. Bring it on, and then in a few days we can watch the actual scum fumble around for an explanation about it.

It is specifically

not

asking the question that is scummy. This is not even close to an accurate representation of my stance on you, and the fourth post you've made this game that reeks of dishonesty.

Can't believe I'm only on about page 2 of a catchup/read-in and need to look back. Spicy.

[davesaz]

Because the goddamn rules say don't ask questions about a myriad of things???

Another thing I need to read again slowly.

[davesaz]

It's probably been at least 3 or 4 years since I was playing consistently, but I've played at least 2 or 3 games a year since, on and off, all Newbies.

Pretty sure we've played together more recently than that, but confirm you've been largely dormant for quite a while.

[davesaz]

Bottom of 7. It's a work day and posting speed is exceeding reading speed.
I didn't notice the player list that much before. Hype.

VOTE: Hoctac
for making an alt/hydra that I'm going to confuse with too many people.

<in before someone says "ooh, delayed rvs after he had already posted!!!!">

[davesaz]

Oooo wait nix that thought, just iso the mod and he has a vote count inbetween post.
That's weird

Exactly.

Also maybe doesn't matter but the title for the most recent vote count is very different from the title for the last vote counts.

OK this one I caught the first time I read it. The auto VC and manual are formatted differently.

[davesaz]

i fel like if you're going to rvs someone for having a ridiculous acccount name it should be no lynch

that's just me

Yeah I finally reached the point where I actually noticed "squiggle in the name no ~lynch".
I mistakenly read the voting rule to say that we have to vote with the weird character to not vote anyone.
That kind of evasion is worthy of a site rule. Some people with borderline vision may not even see the squiggle.

[davesaz]

BTW the comment about bad vision wasn't an idle one. I ctrl-+ the font size up when reading. I probably wouldn't have seen the squiggle at all reading it on the phone.

[davesaz]

There is only one AP.

Not sure who you're referring to, too many with those initials.

[davesaz]

dunno why ppl join games to take them not seriously. It feels like it would be insulting to the mod/reviewers that put a decent amount of work in (and other players that are actually playing. It also breaks the spirit of the game rule, I think.

Agree. Dunno why people treat games like a chat room either. I do not object to reasonable amounts of conversation that has some hope of leading to alignment. There shouldn't be such a thing as a "meme game" imo.

[davesaz]

I feel like mastina's reads are mostly made up, and the stated level of seriousness is a lie.
I don't know yet if it's AI.

[davesaz]

I think "chat room posts" could be sortable in quite a few cases.

Not for someone whose "location" of "socially distant" is true both in normal times and in covid times. For me it's 100% noise.

[davesaz]

you realized it was something scum often do early, but then added some relativism by seeing how town would also do it.

Many people would see such behavior as "fence sitting".
I heartily approve of nuance in posting. "Scum would often do X but sometimes town does X too" is

not

fence sitting, it's giving useful nuance by shading it like 75% gray instead of black. Calling that fence sitting is lazy at least, and disingenuous scum at times.
Bottom line I think the quote is fine, and it's a good reason to give someone town points. (in this case Vecna giving Nero points IIRC)

[davesaz]

Dave, what do u think of Vecna?

I made a comment on one early post.
Was there anything in particular you're interested in?
Generally Vecna seems more reasonable than what I expect from the first 3-4 page-downs in iso, but I don't have any specific memories of scum/town differences so I can't say what that means.

[davesaz]

If you're interpreting my chat room comment to mean conversational tone in general, that's not what I mean.

[davesaz]

VOTE: mastina
Unlike FL, I like wagons.

I like {liking wagons}, but I like {liking wagons} better when accompanied by a reason the wagon is liked.
I don't have a mastina opinion yet. Mostly because I skimmed too fast. Seems a reasonable/important thing to develop at this juncture.

I don't remember FL being nervous about joining wagons before.

[davesaz]

So you use this broken technology for what reason?

[davesaz]

I feel like mastina's reads are mostly made up, and the stated level of seriousness is a lie.
I don't know yet if it's AI.

VOTE: mastina
Unlike FL, I like wagons.

I like {liking wagons}, but I like {liking wagons} better when accompanied by a reason the wagon is liked.
I don't have a mastina opinion yet. Mostly because I skimmed too fast. Seems a reasonable/important thing to develop at this juncture.

I don't remember FL being nervous about joining wagons before.

Can you tell me how you go from saying you feel mastina reads are made up to not having an oppinion on her?

And i find mysel disagreeing with her about EtL.
This is just par for the course.

Did you read the 2nd sentence of the 1st quoted post?
I meant exactly what I said. I don't have an opinion on mastina's alignment.

[davesaz]

There are reasons townies might do that.
It would be up to mastina to respond. Interjecting like this isn't helpful.

[davesaz]

I will say that "I've never been so obvtown" on page ~20 is not a confidence-inspiring type of comment.
A couple people tried that in the TM game I was in, and they were both scum.

[davesaz]

VOTE: mastina
Unlike FL, I like wagons.

I like {liking wagons}, but I like {liking wagons} better when accompanied by a reason the wagon is liked.

@No łynch : you can read this as a request for you to provide a reason.

[davesaz]

I feel like mastina's reads are mostly made up, and the stated level of seriousness is a lie.
I don't know yet if it's AI.

@mastina: you can treat this as a request to explain
1) how you can have that many reads so early if it's serious?
2) if it's not serious what were you expecting to get from it?

In both cases, details please.

[davesaz]

Pausing at the bottom of 24 to say that I got really confused for a bit there because I thought Miss Lynch is an Elements alt, and wondered what on earth was going on.
Then I realized ML is an Enter alt, not Elements. Makes a whole lot more sense that way lol.

Pedit: I know damn well it didn't take that long to write this. 5 new posts.

[davesaz]

I don't agree with mastina about townbinning people off just a couple posts. That's far too dangerous. Even 10-20 can be too few.

Being that willing to put that much detail out there for TRs could be coming from town. Scum would be going out on a limb in a normal game. In a basically cult game though, TRs aren't going to be static anyway so it would be less of a risk to do that.

I don't like the self meta. Admittedly I do tend to say that people who know me should town read me, but I don't try to raise it to near trust tell levels of confidence.

Actually I'm going to say it again. There is much less value in finding town reads this game. The goal has to be nailing scum and noticing the subtle changes that come from being infected.

[davesaz]

Actually I wonder if scum strategy would be to form a townblock and subvert it.
Being able to infect the universal TRs would be a great strategy.

[davesaz]

I don’t Know how to deal with alignment switches so I’m not gonna worry about it until tomorrow

I think it's critical to know whether infected become aware of who other infected and/or mafia are, or if they just know they're infected.
I don't remember if the 1st page said anything about this. I think it's too close to bedtime to try to grok it right now.

[davesaz]

Please infect Dave

Are you aware you're both implying you know I'm (currently) town?

[davesaz]

Does that apply to bastard games the same way, though?

why did u feel like this was an important question?

b/c I think scum like to debate about things that have nothing to do with the game. so the look busy while adding nothing and I sorta feel like that's what you were doing.

Also not a fan of you answering my q with another q.

This seems weird. I looked at the page containing 443 and there was a discussion on the topic of that post.
It's like by 456 that you forgot the conversation you just had.

[davesaz]

I'm seeing a lot of nonsense that I can't relate anything too.

Are you getting / seeing any replies to the things that you do question?

[davesaz]

Seems pretty easy to read.
How much of the game have you paid attention to?

[davesaz]

@nero would you consider my early game actual scum hunting opposed to farside's?

I liked farside mainly due to the questions early game. If farside thinks they were hollow im not sure if I should have liked farside that much for them.

This was a fat juicy pitch over the plate and it wasn't swung on. I'm disappointed.

Has there been followup on those questions, or even any evidence in being interested in the answers?

[davesaz]

OK there how is Elements solidly town?

I don't see it for certain. Not sure who you're asking.

[davesaz]

Element is solidly town here

@Dave: 2 posts above that

Oh duh.
I concur with the question if that wasn't clear.

[davesaz]

I think the lack of follow through and acting lost is good enough reason to wagon.

VOTE: farside22

[davesaz]

Oh look, voted voted.
I don't approve of how voted voted. Care to explain more?

[davesaz]

Vecna is obvious scum. He scumsliped in 774.

Sorry, no one here knows the 5G conspiracy. I have already tested it.

Is it just me or do the attempts at humor/semi-trolling from this account feel forced and not very natural? Or is it just because its nowhere near funny?

?

[davesaz]

Okay. I feel like an honest answer would be something like, "I was getting a lot of pressure and decided to get off my ass and do something about it." but you do you I guess.

The only difference between this and what farside said was you mentioning the pressure.
I don't think mentioning or not mentioning it has any bearing on honesty, and furthermore it's possible that farside doesn't feel pressure at this point anyway.

[davesaz]

I think farside had more followup than it appeared.

UNVOTE:

5G and Jake bother me. Creature replaced in and didn't post which is quite unusual.

[davesaz]

Uh oh, I'm suddenly on page 39 of 60. I hope this doesn't include 10+ pages of creature spamming a one line at a time catchup.

[davesaz]

On page 40 we have Quick talking to ETL about two completely different things like they are connected.

I agree that Quick's "ooh my meta has changed did anyone notice" post was rather self centered. I don't even know who Quick is, might as well be a completely new player as far as I'm concerned. So no, I didn't notice a change.

Pedit: I don't know if creature's one line posting is AI. Gimme another 20 pages and I might have an idea.

[davesaz]

Stop it. Stop saying “ISO me”. I’ve done that already. You didn’t explain anything. If you were suspicious of tchill why did you wait until other people voted him for you?

Because no one wanted to vote for worthless spots...

And worthless spots are bad in this game because there are not many NKs.

Ah, this is probably the key to ETL v Quick. Be interesting to see if/when/how it's resolved.

Here's what I'm seeing on this page. Quick wants to get rid of slots doing nothing, like 5G, Voted, Jake. Nobody else is really going there right now, so Quick moved back to Tchill who was an existing scumread. ETL is viewing this as opportunistic, and the reason it seems opportunistic to her is the brevity and timing of Quick's posting.

Tentatively tvt. Though the over-reactions from ETL could be important.

[davesaz]

Ok but “not many” implies “less than expected”, and it seems to me this game actually gets 2 MORE nightkills than expected. Just trying to understand.

The way I read it, scum get the same number of NK's. On all but 2 nights they are restricted to killing someone they had already infected. So if infections fail for some reason this could result in no-kills eventually. Helps a lot to very closely read the mechanics section.

[davesaz]

Bottom of 45. Couple people finally started thinking about setup which is good.

[davesaz]

Page 50. Making a note that Quick started vote hopping after being accused of being an opportunistic vote follower. Not claiming this as a causal relationship but it is an important observation.

[davesaz]

daves unvoted and doesn't vote anyone he is suspicious of???? Why no pressure on any of the spots your suspect dave?

I watched episodes of 4 different Star Trek series last night. Today there were 20+ pages to read. Answer: because I've been absent.
Self meta: If you bother to read any of my games you may find

entire days

that I don't vote anyone. Granted those are often days that are quick lynches, but in any case it's not hard to find at all.

[davesaz]

Oh btw, bottom of 52 and I kinda agree with Alchemist votes. Another 9 pages to catch up before I decide what to do.

[davesaz]

These can go at this point:
Jake
5G
Hactoc
Creature
Ari

Okay, that's not a bad list rn.

Interesting your list doesn't include the player you just voted.

[davesaz]

@Vecna: Also, as scum the whole "be nice and rational" strategy doesn't really work here because being widely townread makes it harder to justify not being infected.

If infected don't know each other or the mafia then that blows this whole idea out of the water.

[davesaz]

There's only one pro here and I dont see you having the mark of brilliance above your profile picture

I can do without arrogance in the thread quite nicely.
One moment of brilliance does not a great player make.

[davesaz]

Not Voting (8): Creature, 5G Tower, Jake the Wolfie, Aristophanes

Making a note that the absence of numbers in parenthesis means the slot has

not voted in the game at all

, if the count is working correctly.

[davesaz]

What content from A50 is decent?

I'll get back to you on that. IIRC I've been scum with him (and FL) pretty recently and should be able to tell what was different in that scumgame from a towngame. Haven't looked yet this game for scumtells. Now on my to do's, sometime after finishing this interminable catchup.

[davesaz]

Oh damn, what did I sign up for? Idk how to play setups like this

Could've fooled us.

-All 3 if us

Is this a hydra?

BTW, I have not actually seen Almost50 post this game, but that is an assumption.

50JP is an alt where A50 "role-plays as a hydra of himself". Others in that family are Almost50, Austin Powers, Judge Joseph Dredd (going from memory those may not be exact names other than Almost50). I think A50 came first.

[davesaz]

I have a few player i think need prodding like wolfe, dave, voted, nl, fl, creature, and mastina

Wtf I don't need prodding

This screams active lurking. Creature, you're reading the thread but you're not posting unless someone directs something at you?

IMO that's scum Creature. Town Creature hyperposts but at the same time acts lost or disinterested.

[davesaz]

While I work on other things this is acceptable.
VOTE: Creature
Reason previously given.

[davesaz]

I would like to clearly state that I disapprove of 5G and Voted's approach to the game.
On top of that I explicitly scumread them for it. A vote there would not be policy.

[davesaz]

Remembered between hitting submit and the page refreshing that Hoctac is probably on that same list.
They can't all be scum because it would be too many. And whomever said that eliminating the good scum first is better was right.

Pedit: I agree in principle with Alchemist as a wagon but would need to re-read to find out if I've missed something or if the memory is correct.

[davesaz]

ETL is tentatively a TR. Her thoughts seem town motivated. It's only tentative because I vaguely remember her being very reactive as scum and I can't say I equally remember her being reactive as town.

[davesaz]

On top of that I explicitly scumread them for it

For the approach? Don't you think it was decided pregame, at least in 5G's case?

Because I have a fairly decent track record of identifying the instances where "not appearing to scumhunt" ends up being scum, and they most certainly don't appear to be scumhunting.

[davesaz]

Oh, I might have missed something about that question.
Meme / gimmick alts might be decided pregame but inevitably they find the need to actually contribute when they're town.

[davesaz]

It's interesting that you feel mid D1 is that point though. I feel like it's too early to expect most gimmick/meme alts to shed it and start playing.

Wagoning them is a great way to find out. Sometimes just scumreading them is enough.

[davesaz]

how does a50 know that all the mafia can recruit? Does it say that in the op?

It says the infection is a

factional

ability, so all original Mafia members have access to it.

kinda an odd way to put it no?

No it's not odd.
In a cult game if you eliminate the cult leader the immediate danger is gone.
In this game you have to eliminate all the mafia.
I didn't have any problem understanding what 50JP meant by that post.

[davesaz]

Or Mafia infects one person and the Town person spreads it someone.

Again: NO. Only the

original

3 members of Mafia can infect people. The infected are like "Traitors" who do not know their main team, but the main team knows them. They also can be killed by the main team, and they lose if the main team is eliminated.

This does follow from a strict reading of the mechanics section, but it's viable to think that infected

could

spread it with actions because that would fit with flavor. We won't know unless it happens.

That speculation doesn't diminish the thought that it is best to aim for mafia and that we have to catch 'em all -- which goes without saying anyway.

[davesaz]

BTW 50's posts that are happening now are town-indicative.

[davesaz]

Nero questioning them seems town-indicative as well.

[davesaz]

BTW 50's posts that are happening now are town-indicative.

not. at. all.

Seriously, yes they are.
He gets very uppity about mechanics as town, where as scum he feigns ignorance. This isn't the only way to sort him but I feel pretty confident about it.

[davesaz]

Wait, Ari and Alch are both in this game. Gonna have to look more closely because I sometimes mix them up despite the usually obvious differences.

[davesaz]

Auro not being Calvin is going to mess me up a bit too.
<hopefully that avatar memory is correct at least>

[davesaz]

Ari's posting is sociable, but no real content. I too am working and my availability will be highly variable. Today has been an unusually good day for posting.

[davesaz]

ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.

Do you have a proactive > reactive bias in how your read people in general?

[davesaz]

ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.

Do you have a proactive > reactive bias in how your read people in general?

In case you missed the question.

[davesaz]

VOTE: mastina

[davesaz]

VOTE: mastina

No. There are far more people you can point to that have had a committed opinion of me to make lynching me more beneficial than lynching mastina.

I expect people to answer direct questions.

[davesaz]

Yeah that’s fine and all but do you understand what I’m doing rn?

There are multiple possible answers. Despite what you may thing I'm not settled on which.

[davesaz]

Are you going to answer my question mastina?

[davesaz]

ETL, two of the possible answers are town trying to get out of the game quickly and scum trying to AtE themselves out of lynch contention.
There are plenty more, but those are the big ones.
I strongly disagree with martyrdom. We lynch scum if possible.

[davesaz]

ETL, two of the possible answers are town trying to get out of the game quickly and scum trying to AtE themselves out of lynch contention.
There are plenty more, but those are the big ones.
I strongly disagree with martyrdom. We lynch scum if possible.

With the way this game is currently going, the high number of lurkers, the high number of non-serious players and the very low ratio of scum to town, scum lynch ain’t happening today. That’s pretty much a given. So if we are going to lynch town anyway we should be going for the highest info lynch we can and you cannot argue that mine doesn’t fit the bill.

Even if that is what you're trying to do, what's the hurry?

[davesaz]

ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.

Do you have a proactive > reactive bias in how your read people in general?

Nope, never even remotely. Never been something that has ever factored in, ever.

The only thing proactive/reactive has ever meant in a game is in relevance to me, specifically, if I was in a proactive or reactive mindset. It is utterly irrelevant to other players and how I gauge them.

Hmm, that's interesting. I kinda thought you might be the type of player who expects more proactive in order to be town, based on your ETL push. Because the only thing I can see to question there is high levels of reactivity. A case based on "without actually doing" is easily disproven by examples of her doing. What's up with the house of cards approach? And why push it on someone who evidently takes it badly?

Pedit: when you reply to later stuff it makes it appear as though your cursor is beyond the question. Do you mean reverse linear?

[davesaz]

Re 819 that Quick just pointed out, I thought there was a dangling antecedent in that post. In the sentence "farside thinks it's hollow" <it's> could refer to <farside's own questions> being hollow or it could refer to <Tchill's thinking the questions are fine> being hollow.

I did ask about farside's apparent lack of followup. She asserted that her questions had been answered, and I did find some evidence to back that up.
While I consider that topic answered I'm not sure I can remember what has come since.

[davesaz]

I was mistaken about there being replies to later posts.

A case based on "without actually doing" is easily disproven by examples of her doing. What's up with the house of cards approach? And why push it on someone who evidently takes it badly?

I recognize you are saying words here that you presumably want a response to but I have no comprehension of these words.

The original sentence from you is missing. I copy/pasted it as follows:

In post 1694, mastina wrote:
ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.

You are asserting ETL hasn't actually done anything town.
This can easily be disproven by examples of things she is doing that are obviously town.
What's up with the house of cards approach? Why are you trying to make a case that is patently false?
I thought it was possible it was because you perceived her actions as reactive and had a bias against that.

If your case is something different than that, then please enlighten us.

[davesaz]

I actually don't want to be infected. Especially if getting infected and then killed potentially results in a "scum loss". So the really effusive town reads aren't needed.

[davesaz]

Oh good, I'm up earlier than normal for weekend, and there is less than normal to catch up.

[davesaz]

Everyone has a +

Some have ^ and * too.

Yeah because it's copy/pasted from the player list which has those symbols. I haven't looked to see how much it varies from the original order.

[davesaz]

The fact that the ETL wagon is stalled and ppl are voting elsewhere is exactly why scum use ATE even if its some well-intended gambit to force ppl to take a stance and do things or some misguided attempt @ outting scum...the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And honestly, I'm just having a hard time looking past it a bit.

Part of the reason that I questioned mastina on her ETL read was that "not doing anything" is a horrible read on someone with ~200 posts.
Show me something bad from ETL that isn't AtE and I'll be on board. The self vote thing bugs me badly because it would be a good wiggle tactic.
There are better ways for town to remove themselves from an intolerable solution, but rules prohibit going further on that tack.

"Lynch me and you'll have great evidence" wouldn't be totally wrong in a non-cultish game. I would still disapprove but a high information lynch does have value. In a cult game an intentional mislynch gives scum a head start. It is mitigated slightly by the lower odds of hitting scum in the first place, but lynching scum is more important in this game than normal.

[davesaz]

Re 819 that Quick just pointed out, I thought there was a dangling antecedent in that post. In the sentence "farside thinks it's hollow" <it's> could refer to <farside's own questions> being hollow or it could refer to <Tchill's thinking the questions are fine> being hollow.

I did ask about farside's apparent lack of followup. She asserted that her questions had been answered, and I did find some evidence to back that up.
While I consider that topic answered I'm not sure I can remember what has come since.

I forgot to @Tchill on this. Please clarify which thing you were saying farside thought was hollow in 819 if you haven't already.

[davesaz]

There is a math reason for it being unlikely, which is counterbalanced by a social dynamics reason that makes it more likely than the math would suggest.
Not especially fruitful in either case.

[davesaz]

Actually, @Alchemist21, I have a question for you...

Do you actually think you caught 2/3 of the Scum on D1?

Idk. My reads there would change if they can come in and turn it around, but I do still think scum were in the slots that had to be replaced and Creature replaced Momo.

Can you be a bit more precise about what you mean by "scum were in the slots that had to be replaced"?
Two completely different ways of reading that are possible and it's important to know which way you mean it.

[davesaz]

It means there’s a good chance scum is somewhere in that group. When someone says “scum is in this group” it’s commonly understood on this site to mean “at least 1 scum is here.”

Some people say scum are in {list} meaning they think all of the scum remaining are found within that list.
Of course that usage is more common when the list has more players than the number of scum.
I wanted to be sure you meant the one you clarified it to.
I would say something more like "the lurkers have scum" or "there are scum in the lurkers" rather than saying "scum are in the lurkers".
I don't have a feel for how many do it each way. There may be a language element to what I've observed.

[davesaz]

Creature and Ari are both likely scum.

I can see there is a grammar war brewing.
There is no "together" in this sentence.

Spoiler: funny true story

I got into a huge argument with my elementary school teacher, either 2nd or 3rd grade, about the correct way to punctuate frogs legs.
The teacher insisted that the only correct answer is frogs' legs, meaning multiple legs from multiple frogs.
I fought her for what seemed like hours, asserting that frog's legs is also correct. Multiple legs belonging to one frog.
I didn't care that the lesson was about plural possessive. I knew at that early age that there was an ambiguity in the spoken version.

Ambiguities like this are almost never scumtells in their own right.
End of lesson.

[davesaz]

What do you mean by steelman?

AFAIK your case hinges on the word "both" in the sentence I quoted? Which doesn't change the meaning if you remove it.

[davesaz]

btw i didnt read the game/setup details, is this a scum vs town or scum vs town vs zombies(infected) or something?

Knew it! I actually thought about PMing the mod when I saw you sign in, but the jerk in me thought I shouldn't be a jerk about it (talk about oxymorons)

VOTE: Saudade

You can walk back to Vienna for all I care.

How is that wagon on me coming? Good or naw?

Comment and quoted post have no apparent relationship, what's up with that?

[davesaz]

Okay, break time. Who wants to chat?

This is probably hours after the fact (have not looked at post times) but wtf are you doing and how is it productive?

[davesaz]

Maybe I should actually read about what these infect mechanics are people keep mentioning

Attempted fake townslip noted.

[davesaz]

So why not give him more time?

@Alch

I’ve seen him rep in and start the kind of posts I’m looking for within 24 hours rather than stalling.

Seconded. It's why I cringed when the replacement notification came across during my catchup.

[davesaz]

You are asserting ETL hasn't actually done anything town. This can easily be disproven by examples of things she is doing that are obviously town.

And what would those things be? Things which didn't just look town but were

actually

town?

Objection, I can't know if they're

actually

town. I'd have to look, it's a case of seeing stuff, thinking it's town motivated, and increasing a mental counter. That mental counter is pretty high.

If your case is something different than that, then please enlighten us.

My case is more or less that what ETL has done is incredibly fake across the board; the only things not faked are things that are obviously nai, e.g. her AtE, her mechanics posting. Her posts are "easy" to make, for lack of a better word.

Some of the mechanics posting being wrong is part of the reason for the TR. I think more care would be taken if she were scum. Though I do have to admit that in my case pinpoint accuracy (or shouting at people to say nothing at all in some cases) is a towntell so mileage may vary depending on player.

I'd be happy to find some that I thought were town motivated. But I do feel the need to point out that traditionally it's up to the prosecution to prove your case, and all you're doing is hand waving. Show us some posts that you feel are too easy, if they're so easy to see.

[davesaz]

Show me something bad from ETL that isn't AtE and I'll be on board.

Everything?

Quote a post and explain why it's scum motivated.
A player of your caliber should have no difficulty doing this. You avoid doing anything like that, to the extent that I remember.

[davesaz]

How much are Mastinas reads publically acknowledged?

What's the point of this question? And what does it mean?

[davesaz]

Reserved - tonight

Impersonating the mod is against the rules.
<I'm socially distant and don't care if it's a joke>

[davesaz]

Okay, break time. Who wants to chat?

This is probably hours after the fact (have not looked at post times) but wtf are you doing and how is it productive?

Interacting produces content.

At the point I replied it was a monologue. Consider this an interaction.

[davesaz]

I absolutely believe mastina is scum.

Have you given any reason more than omgus? I don't remember.
Same thing to you about mastina that I've been saying to her about you.
I see her posting as town motivated, and would need to be shown examples of scum motivated posts to shake this.
This despite me voting her a ways back, when I thought incorrectly that she was deliberately ducking my questions.

[davesaz]

The special font effect in 2325 is kinda neat.
Someone else has used it before. Confirm either there is a site that generates that stuff or Hoctac is an alt.

[davesaz]

31% is way more than normal Oxygen level. That high and stuff would be spontaneously combusting. Not to mention it adds up to 109% already without the other components.

[davesaz]

The special font effect in 2325 is kinda neat.
Someone else has used it before. Confirm either there is a site that generates that stuff or Hoctac is an alt.

Spoiler:

I don't watch random videos. What was the point of this?

[davesaz]

איךךךךךךךךךךך אפשר שלא להתאהב בךךךךךךךךךךךךךך

האאאאאאאאא

coded message?

[davesaz]

My vote isn't doing anything. Thought for sure I had posted more recently in this game.
VOTE: Aristophanes
Nonsensical vote hop onto MissLynch.

[davesaz]

My vote isn't doing anything. Thought for sure I had posted more recently in this game.
VOTE: Aristophanes
Nonsensical vote hop onto MissLynch.

Why are you voting for Ari?

Because he made a nonsensical vote hop onto MissLynch.
I'm surprised that isn't clear.

[davesaz]

Wait for the replacement and when (s)he posts for the first time THEN hammer it!

Strange thing to say. Either we wait for content or we don't wait. I'm on the wait for content side, and one post ain't gonna cut it.
Of course I'd have a hard time remembering anything you've posted that wasn't strange.

[davesaz]

I could totally see Mastina going "I'm going to profess my self as town so much that ppl will actually town read me for it." *manical laughter*

Oh, that's definitely inside her range. It's inside FL's range too -- not his play this game but possible.

[davesaz]

I think Voted just wants to troll

the replacement.

This seems more accurate.

[davesaz]

Everyone on the ETL wagon is conftown.

EspeciallyTheLies,

Town Email Spammer

, was executed Day 1.

??

[davesaz]

Why is no one at L-1 yet?

Everyone on the ETL wagon is conftown.

How even do you figure!? XD

I have a wagon-cop-check. The ETL wagon returned and innocent.

VOTE: hoctac
fake claim

[davesaz]

ETL's role was the equivalent of an innocent child.
Congratulations on lynching him!

Ummmm how do you figure they were IC?

Sounds like a fruit vendor to me!

Yes. Fruit vendor is weak, so it likely isn't a part of the mafia team, and infection changes alignment. Making Fruit vendor an almost friendly neighbor.
Lets not spam pages with this discussion which is useless now, please.

Given the entire discussion is loaded with flat out wrong information, I agree it's useless.

[davesaz]

Whatever. Just don't lynch before claims. Shall we?
VOTE: 5G

They had many chances to claim and didn't. What has you so riled up about this point?

He was obviously game throwing. There was a replacement on the way.

Hammering when there is a replacement on the way is more game throwing than a 1st on the wagon self vote.
Perhaps I should look at the last 2-3 on the wagon.

[davesaz]

fake claim

It's an obvious fake, therefore a meme.

Pretty sure I don't care about that.

[davesaz]

We could policy lynch you before you fuck up your role?

[davesaz]

Pretty sure I don't care about that.

So is your reasoning "meme, memers are scummy"
Or "Scum are faking with plausible scum motivation that puts them >rand scum"?

I see something that looks like a fake claim from someone I have thought was scum.

The meme if it even is one (not something I'm qualified to judge) is something I flat out don't recognize or care about. People who want to screw with things for lols shouldn't play mafia. Though we do need enough warm bodies to actually fill games.

[davesaz]

dave has pretty much step by step been on the same lvl as me.

If you mean we have similar reads, I think you should be careful about agreement bias.
It should be pretty obvious I'm town anyway but the reason here isn't the best.

[davesaz]

dave has pretty much step by step been on the same lvl as me.

If you mean we have similar reads, I think you should be careful about agreement bias.
It should be pretty obvious I'm town anyway but the reason here isn't the best.

I will say that I find this to be scummy more times than not.

Going out of your way to tell someone that TR's you theyre wrong in how theyre going about it gives the appearance you dont care so much if youre TR'd.

Which is good for scum.

I havent 100 percent decided how I feel about this post yet.

This makes it less likely that you're trying to pocket.
The post you're worried about is just advice, but it had a nice side effect.

[davesaz]

I'm not that interested in your self meta. Showing you have had a lackluster game does nothing to prove that you're not scum posting up a storm in this game.

[davesaz]

Does Cult kill or only convert?

You could read posts 0 and 1 to get an idea of the setup.

[davesaz]

dave, I really want to ask you how your solve is coming. Do you have any serious reads at this point?

I will notice this and then keep reading the rest of the pages that popped up in the last couple hours.

[davesaz]

like i just told you that guessing wrong means i INFECT rather than cure the infection

being explicit is a lot cooler

First we don't know if being cured is actually possible other than what you're saying. Sure it makes sense but not confirmed.
Second, since wincon changes upon being infected, I don't know if it's possible for infected to claim.
Third, don't know what happens if you target scum.
Fourth I can't remember offhand who you replaced so don't know whether to believe the claim anyway.

Responding to something else -- scum know who they infected (tried to infect), given infecting someone is a factional ability.

[davesaz]

Numbered lists are a pain in the ass to work with. I guess I'll leave the numbers.
I'm just going to spew what my running take is without trying to go back and research.

1. Creature - meta says scum, can't remember a single useful post
2. Auro - occasional townish behavior but I've seen that recently where he flipped scum. null and not a priority
3. Hoctac - can't remember anything that is explicitly useful to town
4. 5G Tower - scum tinted hammer, yet another slot with no explicitly town behavior
5. Jake the Wolfie - only on number 5 and this is the 4th slot with no useful posts
6. Aristophanes - fits in the category with Auro where there are some townish things but I'd be hard pressed to remember a stance from him
7. Quick - all over the fucking place, probably town because scum would have to be more careful, but without coherent progression it doesn't help me solve much
8. TrueSoulEnergy - don't remember who this replaced, maybe this will be a game where he's trustworthy but will need to see it
9. Voted - has said a few things
10. Alchemist21 - another in the Auro/Ari category where occasionally a post will look vaguely town but darned if I can remember them
11. Nahdia - catch up looked town motivated, don't know who she replaced so will require a review
12. Flavor Leaf - I'm getting a strong "buried in RL stuff" vibe. Lacks any purpose which could mean town given that he tends to actively drive chaos when scum
13. gobbledygook - replaced who? Has he posted?
14. davesaz - I'm town and I'm going to trigger a bunch of people by not removing myself from the list.
16. 50 Judge Powers - feels town by meta. I feel confident I'd recognize scum 50
17. mastina - Seriously gets on my nerves but the style / read clash probably means she's town
18. Miss Lynch - Feels scummy but I think it's probably a playstyle driven thought
19. Nero Cain - Seems town but seems very wrong in his reads, or at least selected ones
20. Tchill13 - Strongest TR, though I'm susceptible to the same agreement bias that I was so kind to point out earlier
21. Saudade - Feels antitown as fuck but I believe I have a major playstyle clash with him. So it's more of a null than scum thing

I would not be the slightest bit surprised if at least 2 scum are in the A's plus the lurkers.
{Auro, Alchemist, Aristophanes, 5G, Creature, Hoctac, Jake, gobbledygook} are the slots I most want to sort.
The A's probably have enough content but require me to do work to sort. Auro is least likely in that list but most dangerous.
The lurkers need to post

useful stuff

or perish. That means taking stances on reads and backing those stances up with evidence.

[davesaz]

It's a sad situation when more than half the game is actively refusing to be useful.

[davesaz]

Quick talks like we've played together. Has to be an alt (or we've played on an alt of his), I checked my topics list and couldn't find anything.

[davesaz]

@nero: here's a link. Don't know why it's so long.
viewtopic.php?t=81703&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

[davesaz]

I figured it was easier to show you you’re wrong than it is to tell you.

[davesaz]

but throwing out an ISO is ambigious and leaving it up to players to make up their own interpretations seems kinda It feels half-assed.

It's a town game where I'm active and post reads lists. Direct refutation of what you were saying about how I play.

[davesaz]

11. Nahdia - catch up looked town motivated

She literally called the gamesolving towny slots (even if you disagree on Mastina) scum and peaced out after 3 posts. What town motivation?

Is your question because of her reads you disagree with?

The answer is pretty straightforward. I saw stuff, thought that's someone talking their way through getting into the game, and instinctively pegged it as town-sided. It's not a strong read, just an impression. Though I will say those few posts gave me 10x as much AI information as I have on 5G for example. I haven't even oriented which replacement is which slot yet. That list was a dump of what I could remember during that ~5 min of writing.

[davesaz]

Same thing for Tchill that I said about ETL. His thought process bleeds town and I find it impossible to understand why anyone would scumread it. Show me something specifically scummy and explain why.

Pedit: 5 minutes or less, impressions on every player, go!

[davesaz]

And you have to type the list in one go, no opening other tabs or windows.

[davesaz]

For those who don't follow me closely, I never ever lie about RL, which includes how I do things. I typed my list flat out from a copy/paste of the player list and memory, not a single thing more. I'm not sure about the 5 minute part, have to admit it could have been slightly more or less. I'd strongly doubt it took less than 3 or more than 10.

[davesaz]

BTW upon further review I have noticed the living players list wasn't updated for Miss Lynch->OkaPoka. First impression of OkaPoka is that signal to noise ratio for the slot is improved and I think I liked what I saw enough for a weak TR.

[davesaz]

I do not possess those abilities.

But ask a question, and you will get an answer.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

This part

Pedit: 5 minutes or less, impressions on every player, go!

was actually a challenge to Nero who said this:

idk, that reads list is really wishy-washy and I dislike it immensely.

[davesaz]

TSE, got any reads yet?

Please give some reads and reasons for them. The reasons are the important part.

[davesaz]

I've no thoughts about this game otherwise, I think FL was here, is he still not posting?

Scum?

[davesaz]

TSE, got any reads yet? And don't you dare get the WHEEL in

I haven’t been paying much attention to this so no.
I don’t got any.

But I’ll tell you something.
If your town, I will know. I will know your Misguided about reading my slot scum when I’m Town.
If your Scum, I will know. And I’ll make sure everyone else knows it to.
But as for right now.
I’m going to head to sleep.
Good Night!

U scum lol

If you would only add a "because clause" to this you might achieve having a useful thought in the game.

[davesaz]

We are assuming players know they are infected on the night they get the virus.

I asked the mod. He said so.

This may or may not be helpful information depending on the question you asked.

I would expect being infected to resolve as an end of night thing so you'd find out at beginning of day. This is not "the night they are infected" but it is "the day after they're infected". Timing matters and because of that the wording of the question may matter.

If they really don't find out that same morning then I would expect that cures must occur before they are notified. That would imply that getting cured is ineffective on people who have changed wincon to infected, which might imply that true infected do gain knowledge of who their wincon includes. This should manifest as delayed unwillingness to lynch people who were on the table earlier, not accompanied by noticeable changes in the target player's content.

[davesaz]

I actually misread that post, seeing "no" instead of "so". Must be because I haven't had coffee yet. You may interpret it as thoughts on how it would work if there were delayed notification.

[davesaz]

Split decision on what Auro said.
Setup spec can inform town on how to approach the game. It is situation dependent on whether it helps town more than it helps scum.
Scumhunting is never scummy. I have no idea where that thought came from.

[davesaz]

Discussion of whether infected can / should claim is fruitless. I would like to see that angle dropped entirely.
Only the mod can actually answer whether they can claim within the rules, and it's pointless to speculate on something we can't know the answer to.
I'd prefer we play the game the way it's meant to be played and not attempt to break it by testing boundaries. What fun is breaking it?
That said I'm not in love with the idea of potentially changing wincon given how well it went for me in the cult game earlier this year, but I'll take my chances.

[davesaz]

I think Nahdia's position is generally the correct position for town, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's AI to take that position.

[davesaz]

@Nadhia: Look at the d1 player list before replacements. Just the list in a vacuum, without considering actual contributions.
If scum wanted to mislynch potential power town as defined by reputation alone, who are the top 3 candidates for potential power town?
Others may answer if they like.
There is a reason for the question, that I'll keep to myself for now.

[davesaz]

50JP townread is increasing. There are very few people I would TR for that reason, in fact for many I would SR them making the exact same posts. This is a fairly accurate sorting method for 50.

[davesaz]

@Nadhia: Look at the d1 player list before replacements. Just the list in a vacuum, without considering actual contributions.
If scum wanted to mislynch potential power town as defined by reputation alone, who are the top 3 candidates for potential power town?
Others may answer if they like.
There is a reason for the question, that I'll keep to myself for now.

I pretty much never look at PRs. Don't need to as Town.

That is a misinterpretation, but I understand the reason for it.

Not power roles.
Power town. The kind of people who can drive a solve. Paragon candidates.

[davesaz]

Is that effort from

Creature

? I know how to deal with interested and disinterested, but I'd have to work hard to remember

effort

.

[davesaz]

Please don't spam 10 pages of 1 liners.
Surely you can consolidate info at least a little.

[davesaz]

Catch up with spam posts (1) - Voted
No spam posts and no catch up (1) - davesaz

Wrong, that's not my position. Catch up, with posts, with perhaps a bit more organization or something.

[davesaz]

No lynch/Voted is literally an innocent child and thus cannot be scum.

I haven't seen any posts from the mod saying this.

[davesaz]

obbles' absence sucks. His posts while here weren't at all impressive. I'm surprised Mastina's the only one noting this?

Nah, mastina's just the one who happened to be here during this posting storm.

[davesaz]

I mentioned this earlier, but the game has ended now so I can post about it. Ari’s play here so far reminds me of his play in Ginngie Pick 4 U. Ari’s play was lackluster there and it seems lackluster here but he has been putting in a modicum of effort similar to that game.

You didn't mention what Ari's alignment was in that game, so this isn't as useful a post as it could be.

[davesaz]

I'm still here but not all that interested in this game. Still feel Dave and tchill should die. And a50.

You certainly like controversial stances this game. I don't see scum trying to take this particular hill. Or at least not at this time.

[davesaz]

I think Tchill's approach to mastina is town motivated. The things he's pointing out like inconsistencies in mastina's ETL positions are good things to catch. I think doubting self meta, especially when it's being offered as a defense under practically no pressure, is something town should doubt. I think it would be risky for scum to push against those walls, and against the majority opinion.

I have those reservations about mastina too. I see enough town in her posting that it now outweighs the scum points. Her answer to the question I asked also tilts the scale toward town, though it is possible that she anticipated what I was really asking and avoided it.

[davesaz]

Creature has zero "bite" in any of his posts so he is probably Scum here.

Not like I actually expect this comment to generate any reactions or anything, just stating a fact.

You'll get a reaction anyway.

Unfortunately my experience with Creature is that lacking bite is a universal thing with him.
I used to try to pound on him to get some kind of actual stance on things, without any effect.

The really sad thing is that most people just ignore that his posting totally lacks useful content, and read him based on posting anything->town, not posting->scum.

[davesaz]

Tchill, do you have scumreads that you aren't pushing? You commented but I wasn't sure if that comment meant they were scumreads or not.

Nero, do you really think scum would chill out pushing an impossible target?

[davesaz]

Wow, that blew up big time.
The exact wording of the question to the mod probably matters, and the exact wording of the mod's answer matters too. And getting too close to either one in your posting will fall afoul of the rules.

I have not asked yet, but I suppose I'll need to in order to get a handle on this pile of stuff.
<self censoring there, stronger words in the ole noggin>

Pedit. please hold!!! let someone with a better command of English handle this.

[davesaz]

i might order from grubhub tonight

My daughter ordered sushi using a 3rd party app. 3rd party said it was going to cost about $17. Actual cost >$60. Menu price $42. Perplexed to say the least. On an app which had been offering free delivery. Bottom line, be careful.

[davesaz]

The answers I got from the mod were very straightforward, no attempt to evade. I'm going to respect the spirit of the rules and leave it at that for now.
I don't know yet whether that means other players' questions were bad or if they're trying to get cute with "paraphrasing" the answers.

I will say, without any intent to fish, that there are times to be coy such as when you want to hold back role info etc. If it's not one of those special cases, an honest townie is a good townie. Jokes that aren't about alignment indicative stuff are fine, jokes that do touch on AI information/behavior are harmful to our cause.

[davesaz]

Up to my last post, this is current...

dave, Jake, Tchill
Gobble, Oka, Auro, Alchemist
TSE, mastina, Ari, Voted, Nero
Hactoc, FL
Nhadia
A50
Saudade, Creature
5G

What exactly is this?

Surely you can guess?

[davesaz]

I kinda want to SR everyone who is nagging Jake about the "no comment" post.
Seriously folks, it's easy to mess up a question in such a way that the mod can't answer without spilling the key details of a setup.
There are cases where almost any reaction by the mod to a question, including no reaction at all, could spoil the setup.

There are better reasons to SR the slot. I propose we look at people who look like they are genuinely uninformed and want to learn alignments vs people who look like they don't care about that or want to fit actions into a read. That is to say, play mafia. What a concept!

[davesaz]

Jake is maintaining that him and Voted are in contradiction. He hasn't taken his Voted vote back this entire time.

What stake do you have in a vote on Voted?

[davesaz]

But that's twice you've dodged my question and tried to answer a question with a question.

Oooh, thrice. Still have yet to see engagement with the actual question.

Are you saying here that 3708 wasn't an answer? The 2nd sentence looks like a pedit.
If it wasn't the answer then what's the question?

[davesaz]

I've repeatedly given him chances to change his vote and he hasn't, its a shitty response but whatever.

So you care more about the vote than the discussion. Chainsaw perhaps?

[davesaz]

reserve the cool kids town block for not only people you townread, but people who are efforting as well. jake isn't there and he is antialigned with quick so its unresolved for now, but there is room for him

Why do you think they're opposite alignments?

[davesaz]

The relentless hammering on the "contradiction" that wasn't one was hiding the real reason that Jake is Wolfie.
I wonder if Nero is seeing what I am.
I think that maybe OkaPoka was seeing it but had been (probably unintentionally) obfuscating it by pushing the wrong reason.

In separate thoughts, I wonder if FL's sudden appearance is a distraction. Or maybe he's just distracting as a general playstyle.

Pedit: Fence sitting my ass, where did you get that bullshit from?

[davesaz]

If I come right out and say that

Spoiler: shh

Jake is being very cautious and self-conscious about how he looks which means he's scum

Then it will spoil the effect of implying I see something to get other people to blurt it out and prove it's a genuine read from them too.

[davesaz]

If Jake’s Town I can’t imagine how he phrased the question to get a different answer from everyone else who asked.

Maybe everyone should ask if players know if they become immune like I did and see if they get the same non-response. I can’t really see the difference in how I asked the two questions making a difference in getting an actual answer but maybe it does.

This is old news and no longer worth effort. I asked two straightforward questions and got specific answers. I can predict what questions might generate no comment type answers and I specifically don't want people to go try to game the setup by asking tons of questions. Let's just play the game.

[davesaz]

VOTE: Jake

I've thought he was scum pretty much from the beginning, first for not trying to scumhunt at all which has been pretty high accuracy for me, and now also for the reasons inside the spoiler. I don't think it's too low information at this point to make it worthless.

[davesaz]

I don't often see scum as the highest #posts in a game by a 2:1 margin (Quick that is, if you haven't checked the scoreboard lately), but if there were a game I'd be willing to believe it this would be one. Wanted to get that out there before going to eat dinner.

[davesaz]

first for not trying to scumhunt at all which has been pretty high accuracy for me, and now also for the reasons inside the spoiler

hows this went in terms of troll players?

Typically they stop trolling.

[davesaz]

first for not trying to scumhunt at all which has been pretty high accuracy for me, and now also for the reasons inside the spoiler

hows this went in terms of troll players?

Typically they stop trolling.

Dave, are you seriously considering me for Scum of the year this game or what?

I think you quoted the wrong post, or at least the new post doesn't go with the quoted one given that's about Jake.
But you did see correctly that I haven't ruled out the possibility you could be scum leading the game in posting.
<self meta blurb: suspecting everyone who hasn't had a mod-confirmation is trademark me /self>

[davesaz]

1. Creature
4. 5G Tower
5. Jake the Wolfie
6. Aristophanes
11. Nahdia
13. gobbledygook
20. Tchill13

Scum should be be completely within this unordered-by-confidence list. I have reasons for townreading everyone else.
I won't be providing them in one place; if you disagree about a townread, I'll give you the reason.
Many slots are solidly town, but I won't be establishing the strength of my townreads - just the reasoning.

Do you have reasons for scumreading within the list, or is this merely a PoE based on townreading everyone else?

[davesaz]

Gobble's line of questioning is somewhat good.

[davesaz]

This game has a tendency to burst updates when I'm not available. Marking my place at the bottom of page 159.

[davesaz]

Quick is pushing in every direction, paying minimal heed to his earlier thoughts.
What scum motivation do you see in that play?
Do you find any individual instances of him doing that that seem awkward? There's that A50 thing, but meh

That's kinda the definition of how scum have to play if they're going the hyper posting route.
Flop around so much that it takes away any accountability for their previous actions.
I'm unsure about it, but it's enough to make me concerned.

[davesaz]

my understanding of your reads though is that you're tending to see the high-activity players as towny.

At a trend level perhaps, but with notable exceptions where high activity players are on the scum candidate list.

i can see the temptation in a game like this where we have a lot of lurkers holding us back, but i think it's likely one of multiple scum managed to say something you felt was a towntell in the course of their being active.

Agree in principle that we should continue looking at people on the town side of the line to see if they still belong. Currently most important to do that on towntells that showed up during d1, and growing in importance as the days pass.

[davesaz]

alright im gonna post just a bit

{OkaPoka}
{Auro, davezac}
=smol gap=
{Alchemist}
{Ari}
{TSE, 50}
{Creature, Hoctac, gobbledygook, Voted}
{Tchill, Jake, Flavor Leaf}
{mastina, 5G, Quick}
=gap=
{Saudade, Nero Cain}

auro gains a lot of points for his PoEing approach. it feels genuine, like he's actually trying to solve. i think the way he's reading is naive and he's likely townreading at least one scum, but still.

oka continues to be obvtown, as was their predecessor, and the way Nero is just tossing shade his way is scummy. feeling reasonably confident there, when combined with other stuff ive said about him. i also don't like the way he's singling me out when the things he's accusing me of are half the playerbase rn.
Quick... i saw something yesterday when reading up that made me think he's scum, but now idr what that was, and i feel far less certain on him that i do on Saudade and Nero. ill ISO Quick later and see if im still comfy with my vote there. but if im being super honest, im not picky with my push right now. still think we just need more info here more than anything.

Maybe I was wrong to doubt Auro. This is looking pretty Towny from him.

hooray syncronicity. was getting a bit paranoid of ari and alchemist but alch moves back up a rung.

Also, this really deserves to be wagoned. Is anyone TRing this slot or is this slot just going to slide to Endgame?

What's your reason?

[davesaz]

What's your reason?

It's been stated. They've been SUPER opportunistic on my wagon. And then when I literally destroy the ever living shit of their case on me the end up wishy washy on me while still keeping their vote on me. They also said they were reading me based off tone and as far as I am aware that is the same reason FL is SRing me. It's too coincidental and it rubs me the wrong way considering how strongly Nero is TRing me.

So OMGUS then. Not something that I tend to pay much attention to.

[davesaz]

Apologies. Had internet issues until just now, but with it being 3 am, continued content will have to wait until tomorrow.

Elaborate.

Are you trying to cast shade on someone's RL situation?

[davesaz]

Basically, tone-wise Turkey's flat this game. He lacks the vibrant life I know from him and his posts this game are just dull and lifeless.

Tonally that maybe kinda matches him after he got culted in the recent giant cult game? Dunno I kinda purged that one from memory after I got culted.

[davesaz]

Unfortunately, my slot was dumb and its reads make no sense.

I saw this initially and noticed comments about it since but haven't been in a place where it was convenient for me to agree.
Scumtell IMO. Replaced who?

[davesaz]

Oh, Creature. Spicy.

Pedit, yeah the next thing I did was a mod iso lol.

[davesaz]

It's clear to me that some people are never going to give it up.

My prediction is that the question was along the lines of (underlined part is a pure guess) "do infected know they are infected

and who the mafia are

". And the no comment came from the added on part (whatever it was), and he was told not to reveal the extra part of the question. The extra part, whatever it is, should be viewed as NAI, and so should the mod's answer.

I'd lynch him anyway for the not-scumhunting part.

[davesaz]

It's one question from a mod point of view.
If I were modding this I would PM you to drop it or be force replaced. Consider yourself lucky.

[davesaz]

Bottom of page 183, mastina is assuming that infection can't be the middle role of a 3 role interaction where one type of role happens before infections and the other type happens after.

[davesaz]

That's a detail in my original role PM

Ah! So you were infected last night!

I caught the use of "original" too and agree it's somewhat odd.

[davesaz]

I don't want to know your role, but could it not be possible you -say- KILL the infected? If so, kills resole AFTER the infection, while Visiting resolves before the infection. Come on!

So, uh.

Almost50.

Where'd you get this information from? Because per NAR:

Copy
Hide
Bus Drive
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

Kills resolve before recruitments do--and recruitments would be the type of action I'd classify 'infection' as.

Yes, the mod did say they weren't using NAR specifically, so using NAR to say kills come before infection isn't reliable, but I'm using it to say that your information cannot come from NAR.

So where did you get that information? It wasn't from NAR.

I'll weigh in on this even though I don't know yet if 50JP already answered.

Put a big bold on "possible" and "-say-". It's a hypothetical post. Coming from 50JP this is not additional knowledge, it's how he posts a conditional. Not to mention, I came to the same hypothetical sans the specific role types during my catchup before seeing either 50's post or your reply.

Also see the mod's post which says that it's

NOT

the same thing as NAR.

[davesaz]

Question to everyone in this game:

Would you infect me Night 1?

Reasoning would be appreciated, but not necessary.

I’m just seeing if what Quick says actually holds up.

You fall in the group of people who can catch me as scum, therefore infect+kill would certainly be in the realm of possibility.
Don't know if N1 though.

[davesaz]

Other people in this game who know my meta (or should have some idea of it) are FL, Tchill, Nero, and dave.

My memory of the LQ days is pretty vague by now. Wanted to make that clear so you don't have an inflated view of what I'm likely to think.
I really should make dossiers of everyone to bolster memories, but I usually don't have time and it might be less fun.

[davesaz]

but it's still really weird though. Like, a simple "my role pm says...." would have been sufficient and made a ton more sense than "my original pm"

I don't think scum!Nero would choose this particular mountain to climb.

[davesaz]

I am like 100% sold on a mastina info lynch at this point. I still think mastina has a pretty good shot at being Infected, and I can clear a lot of people with some pretty high confidence if we lynch her.

"Clears"

only

come from mod posted information. And you don't lynch to get clears, you lynch to try to get scum.

[davesaz]

Wait why am I being voted?
I’m legit the only player in the game that can’t be converted.

Is this in a mod post somewhere?

[davesaz]

In other news, I got 2 bottles of Mnt Dew that were zero or some shit. It wouldn't be so bad except I got 2 and now I have to drink this poison. Corn syrup is better.

Strong not-diabetic tell.

[davesaz]

someone mentioned putting pressure on Hactoc today and today Hactoc has just been making fake wall posts. Still think that slot needs pressure D3.

I would not object to today.

[davesaz]

I'm also interested in the easy sheep.

VOTE: Hoctac

[davesaz]

Infected die start of the next night so we'd just be wasting our only ways of killing the original scum.

Quick, what does that even mean?

Never SvS

Almost never SvS

Very small chance of of SvS

Small chance of SvS

Low chance of being Not SvS

Better than average chance of being Not SvS

Better than average chance of being Not SvS D1 only

Low chance of being Not SvS D1 only

Small chance of SvS D1 only

Nvm should have read like 2 posts later...

That doesn't help me with understanding how it's a solve though.

[davesaz]

You fall in the group of people who can catch me as scum, therefore infect+kill would certainly be in the realm of possibility.

and this is

y does FL having the ability to catch

YOU

as scum matter whether or not he's going to be infected/killed? Are u part of the scum team or something?

He asked "would you infect me" to each player. Hypothetical answer to hypothetical question. You do know what hypothetical means, right?
Nope.

[davesaz]

I'm leaning on people who are openly not scumhunting.
Hoctac is the current wagon but unfortunately it's a very target rich environment.

[davesaz]

I'm leaning on people who are openly not scumhunting.
Hoctac is the current wagon but unfortunately it's a very target-rich environment.

dunno what the first sentence is.
2nd is just

IIOA

y or something.

Do you actually not understand my posts? I don't think it should be difficult.
I want to lynch people who are openly not scumhunting.
There are very many of them, which is bad.

[davesaz]

From this VC fragment the numbers in parenthesis should be post number where voted.

5G Tower (2): gobbledygook (4537), Almost50 (4889)
Quick (1): pisskop (2924)
TrueSoulEnergy (2): Blair (4543), Hoctac (4624)
Nahdia (1): Nero Cain (3667),
pisskop (2): Voted (3393), Nahdia (5014)
Not Voting (1): Aristophanes (5003)

Are pisskop's, voted's and Nero's votes really that old?
We're pretty far from a lynch for being less than 2 days from deadline. 9/20 scattered votes.

[davesaz]

Therefore (we assume), only one player has been infected so far.

Or we can read the day start post from the mod, which states there is one infected.
(Unless this is a false memory, I'm too lazy to go look rn. Post-Chipotle lazy.)

[davesaz]

Great another game where multiple town fail to play their roles correctly.