TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[NorwegianboyEE]

Game solved. Pine -> FL.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't see the point in arguing with FL anymore so i will be mostly arguing with my townreads as i believe there is not much constructive to be gained from future interactions with scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

When are y'all going to place your votes btw? Theres only like 2 slots voting.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I just wanted to say that being called "my arch-nemesis" by Flavour gave me a bit tingly feelings.

[NorwegianboyEE]

We need 5 votes to get rid of Pine
With +1 from me that requires 4 votes from the gang im presuming as the town here.

Mistyx
Nancy Drew 39
thestatusquo
Akarin
Ramcius

I think Misty is willing but maybe not? Nancy likely yes, TSQ i'm assuming yes, Akarin yes, Ramcius idk.
That makes 3 votes and 2 i think are unsure.

So Misty / Ramcius, may i interest you in a Pine elimination today?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yes, i am FL's scum teammate.

[NorwegianboyEE]

GOTTEM

[NorwegianboyEE]

Shirou raised these points.

FL/Pine pairing:

1) Pine/FL have flavour claims coming from animes that FL watches as indicated on post 1666, what a coincidence.

2) Pine/FL have the same post time stamp entering the thread on D3, right in the massclaim day, where scum would be coordinating in scum PT what to fakeclaim, the flavors, etc, what a coincidence x 2

3) Pine derailed the claim on himself because he was "confirmable" even though JK isn't confirmable at all, exactly what scum would like to do to not risk getting CC'd in the massclaim. what a coincidence x 3

4) FL has the "same role" as one of the already flipped JOATs, it's very likely there's a scum JOAT in this setup and very unlikely that there's 3 Town JOATs, especially 2 equal ones. what a coincidence x 4

5) Pine tries to prove his claim crumb based on an exchange with FL, what a coincidence x 5.

6) Pine/FL have the same pools for today, and had roughly similar voting pools during the entire game, not to mention they have been proven wrong again and again but the confidence on Norwe keeps intact, what a coincidence x6.

7) FL/Pine claims contradict each other because it would mean town had 2x 1-shot docs + 2x 1-shot Commuters + unlimited Jailkeeper. All of that only giving scum a 1-shot Strongman. Mafia could literally never get a NK in this setup in this scenario with a strongman elimination D1. There's no way those claims make sense together but they do town read each other magically, what a goddamn coincidence x7

[NorwegianboyEE]

I have intent to vote pine. I just don't see a lot of reason to do it right now. Are we trying to speed through the day for some reason?

I feel like we've caught scum so i don't see the issue in just voting said scum and calling it a day.
That doesn't mean you can't take your sweet time getting there as long as it's the right conclusion.

Don't get me wrong, i love nothing more than savouring the flavour of scum squirming.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My true spirit animal is myself from Newbie 1994.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82538
Just vote both scum and end the game in 16 pages.
That's how every game should go. Everyone just believes me and we speed up the process of killing scum!FL and scum!Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian is clearly fucking scum here but i already knew i was that much of a superior player, so it really shouldnt surprise me at all

You're clearly not the superior player if you self-vote.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Well FL clearly wants off the game so maybe i should help him.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Honestly i'd have more respect for you if you're scum. If you're town then this was just really bad playing from you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't want to play another game with FL in it for as long as i live as soon as this is over.
Every day becomes this drama of endless posting and shitty takes that get forced down ones throat.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't want to play another game with FL in it for as long as i live as soon as this is over.
Every day becomes this drama of endless posting and shitty takes that get forced down ones throat.

Didn’t I tell you to shut the actual fuck up? You’ve been the primary driver of toxicity in this game. Bemoaning it now can’t possibly be anything but disingenuous.

Oh no, i'm defending myself and pushing scum using logical arguments. How

toxic

.

[NorwegianboyEE]

if we were scum together, he'd say it in the PT

What i don't like about FL is that he doesn't make short and concise points, but he's like a machine gun shooting out so many bad arguments it will be too much of a waste of time to debunk them all.
Such as this one.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh look, i'm being voted by my PoE Ramcius/Pine/FL again.
What a huge surprise that is.

[NorwegianboyEE]

In before Flavour: "Actually i was townreading Ramcius all along, and them voting Norwee finally made me see the light."

[NorwegianboyEE]

That makes 2 scum in Pine/Flavour/Ramcius. So 1 town is voting me. My guess would be Ramcius, i don't have much hope in convincing him. And i don't trust FL.

That requires all of these people to correctly vote against scum. It needs to be 5/5.
- Norwee
- Akarin
- MistyX
- Nancy Drew 39
- TheStatusQuo

[NorwegianboyEE]

Btw JJh's opinion is that FL needs to be ignored here
If he's self destructing as scum it's a distraction, and if he's self destructing as town then it's an even worse distraction
The important thing is that Pine has lied about his role PM and is therefore scum regardless of everything else

[NorwegianboyEE]

I do strongly believe Pine is scum despite what FL's allignment is here. So while i could see both a FL/Pine and a Pine/Ramcius team. I have a hard time seeing any team without Pine in it. He is the key that solves this game and makes town win.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Honestly i think whoever in FL/Ramcius that's town is just triggered by the way i tell things as it is and don't care about niceties. FL is either scum or town that just can't handle being told he isn't the most amazing player, with the best solves, and is sadly and irrevocably wrong.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's honestly pro-town if FL was eliminated here no matter his allignment.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I could spice things up and make it pretty for y'all. But if anyone can't see Pine as scum here then they're honestly just bad. Or severely tunneled to the point where you can't interchange between left and right.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I like your attempt to turn me against FL, but nah, I'm good with my vote on you

I mean i already assumed you could be scum so it's not a big deal. It's more troubling for you if you're town, cus FL already turned on you and if i'm flipped you can bet he will turn on you again assuming the team is FL/Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So there are big associations between Ramcius/Pine/FL
And what do i got? Not many slots that could be my teammates left here. If you believe i'm scum there's no-one that could even feasibly be allied with me at this point. FL has tried everything, "Norwee is with Akarin" <- Proved wrong
"Norwee is with Ramcius" <- Proved wrong
"Norwee is with Iconeum" <- Proved wrong

Just take a second to use your brain bro. Why the fuck would i kill Iconeum tonight when the slots that don't hate me are quickly dwindling while the slots that find me sus stay alive. There is no way i'd do this for WIFOM. If i were scum here i would kill FL 100%. It's always worth it. The fact that FL lives is proof enough in itself that i am a miselimination that scum wants so hard they have fought for it for days.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh and you've also tried to associate me with TSQ Ramcius. You don't care about being wrong on that?

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL's crew has been proven wrong, wrong and wrong yet again. And i haven't even gotten a chance to prove i'm right by having Pine eliminated when that's the elimination i wanted the hardest yesterday. Like i said, i will fight with absolutely all of my power for Pine today and if he's town then fuck it. This game can go to the dogs.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Whichever of FL/Ramcius is Pine’s teammate here will fight very hard for my elimination. As they know that if their scum teammate Pine is eliminated today it will give town room to miseliminate in one of -> Ramcius/FL which most certainly will be the conondrum after Pine flips scum. But if the elimination is Norwee (town) -> Pine (scum) -> Pine/FL it will give whichever of the two are scum leverage to betray the other and endgame in Elo.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Whichever of FL/Ramcius is Pine’s teammate here will fight very hard for my elimination. As they know that if their scum teammate Pine is eliminated today it will give town room to miseliminate in one of -> Ramcius/FL which most certainly will be the conondrum after Pine flips scum. But if the elimination is Norwee (town) -> Pine (scum) -> Ramcius/FL it will give whichever of the two are scum leverage to betray the other and endgame in Elo.

Fixed*

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine's is an extremely obvious fakeclaim in this setup

1. There have been exactly 0 other roles in this and the previous game that are not limited by number of shots. An ungated jailkeeper claim does not match the design ethos for the setup.

2. His claim says "Aside from FL's 1-shot doc, I am the only protective role in this game." Pine is trying to assign additional value to his claim. Note that FL is A. claiming exactly the same role as someone else, and B. Not necessarily telling the truth.
But if Pine is assuming he is telling the truth there, which is inherently strange, this is definitely phrasing to enhance self-importance and disregard that there has already been a significant degree of town protective when scum only has a 1-shot strongman

3. This is absolutely not a conftown claim; rather it is one that MUST claim last for scum to have any chance of faking results without being called out by PRs. Pine knows goddamn well that an unconfirmed and unconfirmable jailkeeper claim is as far from being confirmed town as anything else he could claim.
He hasn't spoken at all about his N1 jailkeep which is the only thing that would actually matter for when his claim occurred if he was town. Insisting on claiming last can only be to ensure he is not himself caught in a lie.

VOTE: Pine

[NorwegianboyEE]

The first point is honestly damning, and JJH puts his entire reputation on the line that this flips scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Jjh927, reader of role PMs and detector of fakeclaims, state with certainty that Pine has lied about his role PM.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not voting Pine for last year setup speculation

What about this year's setup speculation?

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's also this year's game in which Pine's claim clearly does not fit

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ramcius i don’t understand. I’f you want bad takes and AtE then FL is worse. Pine hasn’t changed his reads since day 1. And is not even solving the game. I find it strange that you describe Pine’s playstyle and yet find me as scum when you’re clearly referring to someone else. I’ve explained my position all the way and underlined it with clear reasoning.

[NorwegianboyEE]

TSQ has not really been scummy either. And unless you think the team is exactly me/him i don’t get your PoE in me/him when Pine/FL is a lot more blatant.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL’s argument is:
I get that i look like scum, but if i were scum i wouldn’t!
Which shouldn’t be convincing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not saying this to convince you by the way. I can see you’re clearly incapable of that.
But food for though when you realize you’ve been likely hard defending scum and found yourself incapable of changing your mind because you see any attempts at trying to make you see the truth as an attempt to fool you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why TSQ is town? Not scummy or towny, but what makes him town in this game?

Literally nothing he’s said makes me think he could be scum. And add on to the fact that there are a lot scummier slots than him. I’d rather respect the fact that his playstyle is very townie and not looking faked than assume some extremely scummy slots are town for their shitty claims.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yes, indeed.
So i'm still going to vote in my scumreads because i do not scumread TSQ.
Him being null doesn't change anything.

[NorwegianboyEE]

God i wish Iconeum was here so bad.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why TSQ is town? Not scummy or towny, but what makes him town in this game?

I literally explained that I want keep Pine and FL around for their claims, even if they scum, they have to pretend and they are protective and can't kill their targets of protection, that's the whole point of my plan that I explained several times already. We still have 1 miselim left, so I'd rather use it to reduce pool of nulish slots while I still can rather than take hail Marry gamble and wake up to ExLo with no real idea who is scum like it was for all 3 day phases so far

Well FL agreed to protect Misty but Pine refused to jk Akarin.

I'm really reaching my limits with this game

We’re all frustrated. I wish Ico could be here instead of me. :/

Just stop overthinking this and vote Pine.
Both of you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine claimed he was going to pop in and solve or something, he has not posted since.

[NorwegianboyEE]

We have almost 12 days.

What do we need 12 days for?
If you believe it's not Pine we can discuss things, but i'm really sick of this game and want it to end soon.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And this just gives FL more time to spam 50 pages of garbage.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like just make a choice, vote someone and get this day over with. Discussion is pointless for the likes such as Ramcius. Only flips have meaning.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't mean to sound like a completely unsympathetic ass, but this is a competitive game and it's sort of expected that you can focus on the issue at hand. Which is eliminating scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

But if you feel like you can't think clearly you should definitely take a break and come back fresh tommorow.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Shirou is politely asking if we could just flip another one of their D1 bottom reads rather than spend one or two weeks overthinking "teams". DEB already flipped scum and they are equally confident that at the very least there's one scum in Pine/FL and delaying this is pro-scum.

Shirou/Nibbui/Volpe14/Bunno whatever you want to call them replaced into my team and caught up to this game and wanted me to share their reads:

Ico is very likely town

Nancy is likely town

TGP is probably town?

Status is above null but I don't think he can't fake his ISO so far

BBMolla is a tid bit above null

Zoraster is slightly above null for the Ceph posting

Mystix is kinda neutral to me (good and bad)

Ramcius confuses me at the moment

Akarin is a bit worse than null

Dr Easy Bake is unimpressive but it's expected

Flavor is unimpressive
Pine is unimpressive

[NorwegianboyEE]

And this just gives FL more time to spam 50 pages of garbage.

You're not far off from him yourself in spamming and making several posts in a row, so from all the people, you have least right to complain

My posts are of much better quality.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And this just gives FL more time to spam 50 pages of garbage.

You're not far off from him yourself in spamming and making several posts in a row, so from all the people, you have least right to complain

My posts are of much better quality.

Nah, both of you suck at posting

Ok, and your point is? That we should all act emo and say as little as possible in this game of social deduction?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Point is, i've brought up decent points for why my position is correct. While FL is spamming and nitpicking to tire the game out and make them vote town. Because that's his modus operandi as scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I will never understand this weird obsessive desire to spend so much time analyzing every single possibility, all possible teams. Every syllable of an post using ALL hours of the remaining 12 days.
And in reality absolutely nothing is going to happen in these 12 days and then people will just vote whoever they already wanted to vote
But because they spent 12 days i guess it's ok now.

Lol.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You think so? I feel like we will have TSQ as consensus flip

Yeah and that's precisely the point. We could have eliminated Pine yesterday, but because we spent hours arguing it ended up with a TSQ flip.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Wait i thought you said TGP. My bad.

Why TSQ?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why not? You have him as null, I don't think others have strong feelings towards him either, so perfect consensus flip

I can guarantee you that my vote won't be put on any slot other than Pine or Flavour today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL’s confidence on me feels fake, just as Pine.
I don’t think it’s likely that FL/Ramcius is a team getting ready to discredit me for a wrong Pine push tommorow. It’s likely just that i’m correct and FL is trying to stop the Pine elimination by any means possible because that would be game for him now that their backup option of DEB is dead.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mark my words that with a Pine elimination comes FL. Ramcius is townier than FL and is actually putting some logic behind his push. Such as speculating on a TSQ team. Unlike FL/Pine that literally just scumread me and nobody else, in a game with 2 scum left.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I wonder if Pine will ever post that thing he was going to paraphraze from Dannflor.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mark my words that with a Pine elimination comes FL. Ramcius is townier than FL and is actually putting some logic behind his push. Such as speculating on a TSQ team. Unlike FL/Pine that literally just scumread me and nobody else, in a game with 2 scum left.

Ram doesn’t look to be aligned with anyone.

You know i think i agree with you on that. Ramcius seems to have managed to antagonize pretty much everyone so given this i’m banking on the scum being literally just Pine/FL.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why are you more confident on Pine than FL? I never never played a game with Pine where he didn’t seem scummy.

JJH told me he is completely certain Pine faked their claim here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’d vote for FL as well. But i don’t see much reason to switch my vote.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also can’t understand why FL thinks Ico would push you.

What FL should be arguing is that an nightkill on him would prove scum!me. Because that's probably what scum!me would do if FL was town in this game.
There's like no reason for me to nightkill Iconeum if i'm mafia here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Unless it's specifically to argue that "i wouldn't do that". But the gain is much less there than just getting rid of slots that are hard pushing me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And yeah, i don't get why Iconeum would be pushing me if he was alive either, last time i checked he townread me pretty hard.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL literally killed the guy that townreads me and is trying to explain their death is scum indicative for me.
If he is town here then his level of delusion is quite insane. But yeah, he's scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@MistyX
@Nancy
JJH wants you both to know that he is considerably more confident on Pine mechanically than he was about Twins in pokemon battles. There is no ungated role in this setup such as the one pine claims to have.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL literally killed the guy that townreads me and is trying to explain their death is scum indicative for me.
If he is town here then his level of delusion is quite insane. But yeah, he's scum.

I actively took this back, don’t try and act like i was using that as a case

And yet that doesn't change your read on me at all. You're not trying to solve me, you're just trying to come up with anything that sticks. That's not solving, that's you attempting to force through an elimination.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'll be back if anything of importance happens.

[NorwegianboyEE]

How does setting up FL work exactly? I mean if we assume FL thinks Pine is town. How will Pine flipping town "set him up" tommorow?
The only way i can set FL up for elimination tommorow is if Pine does in fact flip scum. And even then, it's not exactly setting up unless Pine is my teammate and it was the plan to buss him and then blame FL tommorow. Which i doubt he believes is likely for even a second with how hard he's been defending Pine and attacking me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

No, if Pine flips town, you’re just gonna misfade me tomorrow.

And why is that? I've never given any indication that i would vote you if Pine flips town. My entire reasoning so far has been based on Pine being scum that fake claimed and finding you suspicious because of the way you've been defending the slot i read as scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t see why every role has to be 1-shot.

Misty isn’t.

I just think that’s a really naive take

JJH is experienced in the game and i highly doubt it's an naive take coming from him.
I'd assume you would respect him too if you were actually town and consider why a Pine elimination is ultimately superior to pushing me when there is nothing i've done that's explicitly scummy as compared to Pine that's literally been caught in a lie.

[NorwegianboyEE]

No, if Pine flips town, you’re just gonna misfade me tomorrow.

And why is that? I've never given any indication that i would vote you if Pine flips town. My entire reasoning so far has been based on Pine being scum that fake claimed and finding you suspicious because of the way you've been defending the slot i read as scum.

Dude, we’ve already been through this shit.

I have absolutely no interest in talking with scum here

Stop stealing my lines mate.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nah, I think if he’s town, that’s his exact role and you’re just being naive.

Flavours role is supposedly 1-shot doctor. we already have a flipped 1-shot doctor.
And he believes an ungated jailkeeper is in this game.

Enough said.

@Misty
@Nancy
@Akarin

You three are the last votes we need.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like there’s absolutely no way I don’t get misfaded tomorrow here.

This fear of yours doesn't make any sense unless you know Pine is scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian-Ramcius i already made my case on earlier

Ramcius is probably the least believable partner you could have found for me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

MT read up to the game and he too wants a Pine flip.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Or is it she. I don't remember.

[NorwegianboyEE]

*She

[NorwegianboyEE]

Now if you argued me/TSQ maybe it'd be somewhat believable. Because i've just townbinned the slot and haven't been pushing them. But then again, it's not like that proves we have to be a team just because it's an possibility.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Your AtE isn't impressing anyone.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t give a fuck, Norwegian.

Don’t talk to me again this game.

Aww, big baby got a boo boo.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's finally happening.

FL needs to doc Akarin rather than Mistyx here to prove his role if he's town.

Misty it's just your vote now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I know it doesn't prove anything. But if Akarin dies and FL claims he didn't protect them that is an definite scum claim.
We should do what we can to defend our only 100% conf!town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dannflors read on me is not real. Tell him i know him better than that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dann's in my ear saying this points to Ramcius scum, which I'm still hesitant about, because that implies Norwegian Town. And for that to be true, Norwegian would have to be the hands-down most counter-productive and destructive Town player I've seen in years.

Disgusting.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL/TSQ
FL/Ram
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram

I doubt a Pine/TSQ team because of how TSQ is responding to Pine’s claim that me/TSQ is the team.
Rest might theoretically be possible, but i don’t see strong indications of any world where it’s not Pine being scum that faked their claim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine and FL have given up on logical arguments and are continuing this disgusting shaming and treating me like i don’t have feelings or am insensitive to their blatant insults and attack on my personality. It’s sad how far people will go in order to win.
Misty/Nancy please just vote.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Letting FL constantly talk about the same things is only going to make the game more demotivated. There's something named morale, and it's important.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nancy Misty are partly to blame for the toxicity in this game right now because they are enabling FL and Pine’s behaviour by not voting.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If it’s revealed that Dannflor legit looked at the game NOT from the POV of defending scum!Pine. I will eat my own shoe on camera. Livestreamed on Twitch.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine and FL has been having me as scum all game but apparently i’m the one that’s "too confident in my reads"
That’s what Dann is claiming is scummy hahaha.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok Pine. But my teams conclusion about your claim being a lie is correct regardless of how you think of my slot. And no matter what ends up happening today you will always be the elimination at some point in the game because that shit's fake.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And i hope to god people will have the sense to vote FL when Pine flips scum too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I've been to the most possible extent been trying to argue real logic and derail the BS arguments, but Pine+FL is still acting pee wee level in this very open and visible game by arguing that because i'm toxic i'm scum rather than addressing the actual points in our case.
Toxicity or confidence proves nothing about alignment. And if you are actually town and find yourself arguing on that level then you as a player always lose, deservedly.

[NorwegianboyEE]

she's working off the base assumptions of nancy/akarin town in that vca, which i agree with

VOTE: Ramicus

she and I both think that the gamestate needs shaking up here and want to do this

You're not going to sway either side to vote Ramcius when the game is this strongly divided. You know that right?

[NorwegianboyEE]

So there is no use in trying to be the big damn hero taking the third option.

Why are you not voting in either me or Pine?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Titus also has this big issue of always trusting PR claims. It's the biggest flaw of their VCA. When scum makes the most obvious fake claim Titus just assume it's real and comes up with game losing VCA solves that makes fake claiming scum endgame.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee, simple question - why scum have 1-shot strongman, if town has only 1 JOAT with doc and commute?

It doesn’t matter if scum has 1-shot strongman. I care about how the setup only includes roles that are gated by number of shots.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee I still want your take on Ram

Town until both scum not being in Pine/FL is disproven.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can't see a team not being Pine/FL at this point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And lololol Ram gets “grownup” props for agreeing with Pine. Shocker.

Pine logic is that if you disagree with me you are a mature grownup and if you agree you are a manchild.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The fact that Pine/FL is playing this way just to win is ridiculous. It's like they can't beat me so they resort to this endless whining screaming to discredit me so hard that even when i flip town they can argue that i'm just a stupid know-nothing and that my solve of FL/Pine is not correct.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Strongman is not a role that requires ANY healing roles in a setup
This is a theme game
A strongman allows scum to make a kill without worrying about whether it will be protected
Scum do not know what roles town have
therefore a strongman in a game with no protectives is still a benefit to a scumteam
We do not know what any of the scumteam's roles besides DEB's actually are; making guesses about the power level of the setup with 1 scumflip is not a good call
Whereas what we can do at this point is say that there is no role in this setup which does not have a limited number of shots, just as this was the case last time. Pine is lying. Pine has doubled down on this, which I do not believe he would not have done if he was town making a gambit. He is lying, and he is scum for lying
but basically, we seem to be encountering a lot of arguments that the game must have enough protectives to justify the strongman, when this is false

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee I still want your take on Ram

Town until both scum not being in Pine/FL is disproven.

In other words, I'll become scum, when Pine flips green

Bit of a silly logic when Pine isn't even flipping green.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't personally dislike you Ramcius. I know that admitting you're wrong is one of the hardest things one can do. So when you started the game on the wrong foot by putting your trust in the wrong slots that's how things end up. And i respect that, if only you agree with me that on a flip of me you do all you can to eliminate Pine and FL, and don't go off on this "TSQ is scum" shit. Because if i flip town there is literally nobody TSQ could be allied to. He is clean.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ok then you are blatantly not attempting to reevaluate and are therefore a liability

Don't give me that nonsense. I've evaluated more than you can believe, and now that i've got the solve in the bag i'm done. If you don't want to finish this game then don't, i was right and was targeted by two strong players since day 1 so it's not easy to convince at least 5 out of 6 town. Although consider that 5 out of 5 because Ramcius is just a lost cause.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nancy Misty are partly to blame for the toxicity in this game right now because they are enabling FL and Pine’s behaviour by not voting.

Are you fucking kidding me with this?

I apologize.
But consider this, FL and Pine is being toxic. And by not voting them out the gamestate is being switched in their favour because they are getting free range to keep being toxic and warp the gamestate in their favour.
You are currently stating that it's hard to keep up because of the constant toxicity, have you ever considered that might be exactly what they want?

[NorwegianboyEE]

That goes for MistyX too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Great, now Pine can act like the rational one.
Can we just agree to vote me if it ends the day faster and then town collectively decides to eliminate Pine/FL once it's proven i'm town? I don't give a fuck about this game anymore.

[NorwegianboyEE]

TSQ doesn’t make sense as team with anyone from my POV. Definitely not with either of Pine/FL/Ramcius.
MistyX is town for their claim and generally indecisive behaviour. Which is annoying but town.
Ramcius doesn’t make sense with anyone because of the way he keeps flipping on all slots.
Nancy is obvtown.

Pine is scum that fakeclaimed and makes sense to be allied with FL. Their claims are designed as complimentary to each other and to make sense as endgaming together.
FL is scum that fakeclaimef and makes sense to be allied with Pine. Their claims are designed as complimentary to each other and to make sense as endgaming together.

General advice:
Nancy: just keep voting Pine/FL all game. FL is basically scum!Bunno 2.0 from Dung Beetle and is obviously allied with Pine.
Ramcius: stop voting TSQ and realize that scum are in PR claims.
MistyX: Stop listening to bad VCA, grow a backbone, and vote Pine/FL.
TSQ: Don’t buy into nonsense from FL and think Ramcius is scum, he’s boneheaded as fuck. But eliminating him is a mislim. Don’t lose focus.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Akarin i don’t have anything to say to. They’ve played perfectly and should definitely ve considered MVP.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ram why are you set on eliming in me/tsq if you can only see two possibilities and one of them is Pine/FL.
If it comes down to that kind of process of elimination, why take the path that is currently harder.
Why favour any path at all?

JJH would like to state that he is very much of the opinion that this is a pine/ram scumteam right now. He thinks it makes sense that ram is now pushing TSQ rather than me, norwe, since he's assuming i will go hard on Pine/FL
Also, all this focus on pairs is distracting from how Pine has lied about his role PM and is objectively scum no matter who else is.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not going to consider even voting TSQ until Pine is dead.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If Ramcius really sees TSQ/Norwe and Pine/FL as the only possible teams at this point I really don't see why he'd care which one got voted first

[NorwegianboyEE]

If Ramcius is scum here then him going after TSQ with the intention of switching straight over to a pine/FL scumteam when TSQ flips town is exactly the optimal scum strat.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If TSQ flips green, flip Pine, where's the problem?

The problem is that flipping Pine after TSQ gives more room for error to make the wrong choice in you/FL whom are the most likely Pine scum teammates.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you think the team with a Pine townflip is exactly me/TSQ then go ahead and vote Pine. If they flip town FL can prove we are indeed the scum and have us eliminated. Easy peasy. All i'm asking is for an vote on Pine to flip scum so it's proved that TSQ/me are town and should never be considered for an elimination again.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Where is Ram's confidence that it's one of those two possible pairings going now? Wouldn't i lose a whole lot of credibility with a pine townflip?

[NorwegianboyEE]

DGB having that read on me is also sounding pretty fake. I refuse to believe he seriously thinks i should go first here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's sounding more like Ramcius has some kind of ulterior motive in not voting Pine, with how they act like Pine could very well be scum but absolutely refusing to go there.

Specifically referring to 3872 and 3876, in which Ram makes a weak counter to the reasoning of why Pine is fakeclaiming, which is immediately refuted, after which he falls back to arguing that the fakeclaim doesn't make Pine scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm also finding it interesting that Ramcius is yet again doing this thing where he argues me/X is allied and therefore he could vote there, and doing so.

At first it was "Norwegian - TGP are scum" and voting TGP.
Now it's "Norwegian - TSQ are scum" and voting TSQ.

[NorwegianboyEE]

DGB having that read on me is also sounding pretty fake. I refuse to believe he seriously thinks i should go first here.

How does a read based solely off of VCA read “fake” to you rather than just plain wrong? I know for me and extremely likely Misty, it’s useless but I don’t know why you’d consider it to be “fake”?

Oh sorry, i didn't consider it was VCA. I just think that if DGB scumreads me when he has played games with me and knows my playstyle he shouldn't scumread me here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VCA is usually a bunch of shaite anyways. And i've never seen him solve using that metric before. Only Titus.

[NorwegianboyEE]

MT wants to ask why the first thing on Ramicus's mind is who i'm gonna push after a town!Pine flip. Ramicus isn't even sure TSQ flips town, he's framing TSQ as more of a consensus null here.
Shouldn't Ramcius be interested in flipping scum or something.
There is no way Ramicus is genuinely afraid to vote Pine cause he's scared i would be coming after him/FL with a town!pine flip (4372)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, I like how you bring up TGP, when you did 180 on him and hammered

His last post was scummy A F and even Nancy agrees on that. Also there is no way any other elimination than TGP was happening that day so my "180" as you call it didn't change much in the grand scale of things. In fact, you'd probably still argue i'm scummy if i insisted on TGP being town to the end.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I like how you try to blame me like the TGP elimination was my sole responsibility when i didn't even argue in favour of it from the start, i've always wanted Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I plan for more than just elim, I try to see what would be outcome of different flips thus trying to determine which flip would benefit town most with clearing people, associations, etc

If you want to clear people and check associations you either vote Pine or me. According to like everyone opposing me here, a town!Pine flip would be damning for me and TSQ so i don't get the issue you have with voting there if it's apparently going to seal our fate.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Speaking of no other elim happening, we are in the same position where neither you or Pine is happening, so what you suggest?

I suggest you go to a hibernation with me until the day ends with a no elimination because my vote isn't changing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I plan for more than just elim, I try to see what would be outcome of different flips thus trying to determine which flip would benefit town most with clearing people, associations, etc

If you want to clear people and check associations you either vote Pine or me. According to like everyone opposing me here, a town!Pine flip would be damning for me and TSQ so i don't get the issue you have with voting there if it's apparently going to seal our fate.

Convince people to vote you and I will change back, i promise.

I have no idea what you mean.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, I like how you bring up TGP, when you did 180 on him and hammered

His last post was scummy A F and even Nancy agrees on that. Also there is no way any other elimination than TGP was happening that day so my "180" as you call it didn't change much in the grand scale of things. In fact, you'd probably still argue i'm scummy if i insisted on TGP being town to the end.

I still wish you had waited for me to weigh in because you specifically said you would. so why didn’t you?

Because i'm impatient and believe in the power of flips. That's the reason why i've been waiting for a Pine flip and saying that i would even agree to a flip on me if it get's Pine eliminated tommorow. Because at least that might get some momentum going on my solve once it's proven correct. And it's impossible to convince Misty and that frustrates me, i find it incredibly demoralizing that they votes TSQ here, a slot i do not have in my PoE and that would not get us closer at all to the correct solve unless everyone somehow agrees that Pine is indeed the scum tommorow if they flip town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This game has just always been going in the wrong direction and the only way to turn it around is if people can finally just vote out Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Asking for someone to prove they are town is stupid.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So was there ever a convincing reason anyone has for why scum would want to use strongman last night to kill Ico, and not target Ram or FL?

I certainly don’t see it.
No matter which way you look at it, that kill points to Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's really simple but Pine wants you to overthink this.

Iconeum dying points to scum being slots that don't want me to be townread. "Sure" Pine will say, "That means you killed Iconeum for WIFOM", but consider it from my POV. If i'm scum i would have been in a really bad position since day 2 so why in the actual fuck would i kill a slot that i have a high chance of convincing to vote with me in favour of leaving slots that absolutely hate me such as FL/Pine/Ramcius alive. It makes no sense whatsoever and the only reason i'm even in this situation is because scum are in those slots and they want me dead.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm of the strong opinion that scum extremely rarely will kill slots that aren't a threat to them. Iconeum was a threat to Pine and townread me, that is why he is dead.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Me or FL can be miselim targets, you can clearly see it as both of us are targeted for elim today

Where? Last i checked Pine was always the number #1 elimination.
You speak almost as if an attack on Pine is an attack on you and FL. But it only is if Pine is scum. And that is because you and FL have been hard defending him for some inexplicable reason.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I agree to the fact that i find both you (Ramcius) and FL suspicious, but as far as i can see that has not derailed from the main target that lied about their role.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The hard proof is Pine’s flip.
In the meantime however.

1. Theme games are very frequently designed with a consistent theme around their design
2. Every other role claimed or flipped in this game has a limited number of shots.
3. Design themes are traditionally consistent across multiple theme games in a series. This is why they are considered a series rather than unlinked games.
4. Every role in the previous game in this series has a limited number of shots.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I mean, Ico's kill doesn't make sense at all no matter how I look at it, so only thing that I can think is scum thought Ico softed some PR and they killed him for it

Ok. Where is this PR softing?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine’s claim is about as hard as evidence gets for a fakeclaim. It doesn't mesh with the rest of the setup at all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let me point out too, that not only is there no proof that Pine IS a jailkeeper, but there's even soft evidence against it in that one must assume that DEB strongman killed in order to believe the claim

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, why did Pine jailkeep FL N1? He softed PR

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pretty convenient that scum went for a kill on one while the other got roleblocked.

[NorwegianboyEE]

At least one player is an honourary scum team member in all but name, that is for sure.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pretty convenient that scum went for a kill on one while the other got roleblocked.

Are you saying that FL is town?

JJ has been having a lot of influence on me lately, and he thinks it’s just you/Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Which does make FL town if so.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Misty are you reading the game? Or any of your team members? Tell Misty to read my team’s case on Pine over again and vote him.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The hard proof is Pine’s flip.
In the meantime however.

1. Theme games are very frequently designed with a consistent theme around their design
2. Every other role claimed or flipped in this game has a limited number of shots.
3. Design themes are traditionally consistent across multiple theme games in a series. This is why they are considered a series rather than unlinked games.
4. Every role in the previous game in this series has a limited number of shots.

Can you link that game for me please? I don’t want to have to look it up.

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81719

[NorwegianboyEE]

Misty’s 3479 contains a full list of the setup, except mistakenly thinking the doc was a full doc when it was 2 shot.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not ISO diving Ico and I'm not going to guess what scum could consider PR soft

Well it’s your funeral. I’ve stated that Ico was killed because Pine is scum. You have no counterargument.

[NorwegianboyEE]

All the town too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

All the town and scum in previous game of this theme had X-shot roles.
All hard confirmed flips in this game so far have X-shot roles.

But apparently Pine is a full jailkeeper.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's not setup spec saying that an ungated role must be scum, it is that an ungated role must be a lie.
And that a liar in this situation is scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

thoughts about my other posts?

Yes actually.

Shirou told me that he disagrees with your read on FL and Pine because you shouldn't disregard a hypotethical Pine/FL scum team so easily.
In the last TM scum!FL + scum!Kuribo gave easy town reads to each other and defended themselves together.
FL/Pine aren't typical scum afraid to give town reads to partners.

Can you also link this game for me? Thanks.

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81773

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are you comparing 13p setup with 17p setup?

What does that have to do with the point i was making in my initial post?

[NorwegianboyEE]

All this scummy backtracking and crazy logic from Ramcius is really making me consider FL being town here, and that's an accomplishment.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That's for "obv towns" towns, who want to take their sweet time and wait for deadline

I'm not going to take part in your endeavor of miseliminating TSQ when Pine is obvscum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

*Ramcius loses an argument and is looking really bad*

Ramcius: "I'm going to ignore you now!"

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Nancy Drew
@TheStatusQuo
@Akarin

Can you all help me convince MistyX to vote Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

we've got time

i'm strongly leaning that way but i want to think this out more okay

Alright. At least i now know you are keeping up to the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

An elimination order of Pine -> FL/Ramcius wins this game. I'm certain of it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This game’s a scum victory.

Congrats

Who do you think the scum team is?

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Flavour
And why do you think the game is lost? If Pine flips town i’m basically the elimination right away.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Followed by probably TSQ.
I don’t see why. If you believe me/TSQ are scum.
The game would be "lost" after a Pine flip.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJH wants to offer you a special deal Flavour.

If you vote Pine while complaining about it, you can still be right regardless of the outcome.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What if we get other people to agree on voting us if Pine is town?

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJH really wants to work with you.
You saw Pine pocketing you through the game. If it would help you get the information to get to the correct conclusion JJ will even offer to say you were smart for noticing that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And if Pine is town i will gladly accept the fade.
Seriously, a town JK isn’t a big deal for me as scum. But a scum fake claiming is a big deal for me as town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You better be happy JJ is buddies with you because i would never even consider trying to reason with you otherwise.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And if Pine is town i will gladly accept the fade.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING TOWN SAYS

tomorrow would be endgame if Norwegian was town here

PINE ISN’T FUCKING TOWN YOU MORON

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJ is 100% sure on scum!Pine
We can say whatever we like about that hypothetical where he flips town because it won't happen

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL, the claimed action on you is a roleblock and you softed PR

[NorwegianboyEE]

i think fl has a good point in that pine is a mechanically incorrect kill today

fl, why do you have norwee/ram ruled out but not status/ram?

There is probably not a "mechanically correct" play here; we do not know what roles the scumteam has. JJ would give very good odds on the scumteam for this game having a roleblocker of some kind even if we weren’t certain that Pine was that

[NorwegianboyEE]

This is where we should be making the correct elim rather than trying to make an optimal mechanical play when scum are able to fakeclaim to manipulate that optimal mechanical play

[NorwegianboyEE]

For what it’s worth. I find FL’s claim of a clone role more believable than Pine’s jailkeeper claim. So a Pune/Ramcius team is on the table.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i think fl has a good point in that pine is a mechanically incorrect kill today

fl, why do you have norwee/ram ruled out but not status/ram?

There is probably not a "mechanically correct" play here; we do not know what roles the scumteam has. JJ would give very good odds on the scumteam for this game having a roleblocker of some kind even if we weren’t certain that Pine was that

well by logic wouldn't the roleblocker probably also be gated?

last year's was 2-shot so i'd guess the same here

It probably would be gated too, but it doesn't have to have been used yet. If anyone in the town still has a shot of anything then scum can too. And scum are more likely to not use a shot since they aren't at risk of being NKed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Though JJ notes that no flips in this game have actually had more than a single shot of an ability, unlike the previous game

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah well Pine is still scum even outside of mech.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think theres some chance its real, I think there's a very good chance in that case that it isn't town.

This.

[NorwegianboyEE]

For all this talk of setup, Pine’s play has just been really scummy.
The setup spec is just the icing on the cake on top of all the reasons why Pine is mafia here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, specially for Norwee, jk can protect too, not just rb, I mean, you could learn how roles from reading wiki, but for sake of this game, I'm willing to help you out this time

I’m pretty sure my team is well aware how a JK works, but thanks for this useless information.

[NorwegianboyEE]

setupspec is below other forms of scum hunting for a reason, that's just all mech stuff. Mech is the lazy way to play Mafia unless you're all in on mech. If you are excellent at mech, and use that supplementally, then yes, but I'd even say I'm the strongest at mech in this game

They using 17p rolelist to compare it to 13p, I just can't argue them, it's simply beyond any logic at this point, like strongman is just for giving scum confidence and not to directly counter something on town's side. Could you explain them why there can't be same amount identical/similar PRs in 13p game as it is in 17p, cause I don't know how I should explain this to them for this to sink in their thick skulls

I find it funny you call me thick when you’re comparing an meta example Shirou brought up that has nothing to do with JJ’s analyzis of Pine’s claim and how it doesn’t add up to flipped roles so far in this game. And pst, the last anime theme had 13 players too. The 17 player game you’re talking about is the TM Large Theme from 2020 and has nothing to do with the point we’ve been trying to make.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The 17 Player game was brought up as an example to show how FL is not afraid to openly townread his scum partners when it was questioned whether scum!FL would do such a thing. The relevance with JJ’s claim is nothing, and i only brought it up because Nancy specifically told me she wanted a link to that game.
This is really simple stuff, a child could figure this out.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It is a well evidenced argument that there is no role in this game that isn't X-shot. Yet this is being dismissed for being "setup spec". Meanwhile, the same people dismissing that argument are saying that Pine must be a jailkeeper in order to justify the scum having a 1-shot strongman. That is entirely setup spec and has no basis. Our argument is logical and based on evidence. Based on the information we have, a role that is not x-shot should not exist in this setup, as otherwise it would be the only one and would violate the aesthetic of the setup design.
The other argument is entirely speculative and does not take the whole setup into account. It relies on the assumption that town must have a significant number of protectives in order to justify a 1-shot strongman.
JJ and me criticise this assumption on a number of levels.
The strongman's power level varies depending on the setup. You do not need to justify its existence. It's the overall setup balance that is crucial, and it is a mistake to try to match up individual roles. We do not know how much power the rest of the scumteam has.
At any rate, We have been leaning on the mechanical reasoning for evidencing Pine's fakeclaim because for normal people this is one of the strongest types of argument. If it's still being dismissed as mere setup spec JJ did also provide reasoning around Pine's behaviour around his claim that also indicate deception that he will happily return to if needed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, specially for Norwee, jk can protect too, not just rb, I mean, you could learn how roles from reading wiki, but for sake of this game, I'm willing to help you out this time

Jjh is pretty much the expert role claims. That’s how we won Pokemon Battles.

JJ and Jingle are the best mechanical players in TM according to him.
He is also curious why Jingle has had no comment on his teammate's ungated claim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What does Jingle think specifically about Pine being the only ungated role in the setup?
And whether there are any implications of this.
And why Jingle hasn't acknowledged this as a weakness of the claim himself

JJH doesn't really see Jingle coming up with that bad point about the strongman referencing roleblocking when that's what the normal strongman role PM looks like.
It's phrased exactly the same way in the previous untrod tripod vs anime game. That's literally just how strongman role PMs look; it doesn't imply anything about the setup.
and Pine should know that and Jingle definitely knows that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine, telling me to shut the fuck up here is absolutely uncalled for and you can do better than that as a person and as a forum moderator. I am asking that you answer those questions because I do not believe you have answered them, and shutting down discussion in one of the rudest ways possible is just not on. Please answer the questions and do not tell mee to shut the fuck up again. If you feel you have answered the questions, then please quote where you have answered them and I will explain why those answers are not satisfactory, because I have read all your posts and those questions are not answered.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJ is pretty much coaching me through this part of the conversation because of how it makes me feel when you tell me to shut the fuck up.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine is the only ungated role in the setup, this is specifically around how that doesn't seem to fit.
Does this imply that this assumption is false and that scum might have ungated roles, perhaps? Something like that. Because Pine, and from what we can see through Pine, Jingle, is avoiding what we consider to be an absolutely damning point about ungated roles not fitting in the setup. And he was in the previous untrod tripod v anime game, and was the living player who noticed the aesthetic of the setup. It seems really strange that Jingle wouldn't get Pine to acknowledge that being the only ungated role in the setup might make people doubt the claim.
It's a pretty common thing when making a claim that you know is unusual for any reason to preface that. To say, as FL did when claiming a role that had already flipped, "I acknowledge that this might be hard to believe for X reasons BUT this is the role PM that I got". Are we to believe that Jingle not only missed an absolute standout feature of the setup like this but also is refusing to recognise it after we've been repeating it?

[NorwegianboyEE]

But basically, JJ doesn't care so much about the jailkeeper bit of the claim. That setup spec can go anywhere. Pine could have claimed ungated anything and it would still be fake.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I will not claim i've been perfect this game. Not by far, but yes i agree with everything TSQ is saying about FL/Pine. It's really sad and annoying the game had to become like this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJ thinks i didn't paraphrase 4565 too well but the meaning should be there- that post is at Pine in relation to what he would expect Jingle to be thinking about.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I should not have brought up the notion that Pine didn't take his medication in pagea earlier, but i think that speaks more to my lack of self-control when i feel unfairly treated since i thought i brought up many good points in favour of my solve and then the response i get is quote: "Can you shut the fuck up".

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why the hell would I claim something incongruous like that when I claimed last and could easily have faked that it was X-shot?

Answer: It’s the truth

It would be a lot easier to believe it was the truth if the incongruous nature of the role had been identified with the claim.
Except it wasn't- you even went as far as arguing the claim made you conftown.
If it had been noted at the time of the claim, then it would rule out the scenario where it was a mistake made by scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, specially for Norwee, jk can protect too, not just rb, I mean, you could learn how roles from reading wiki, but for sake of this game, I'm willing to help you out this time

I’m pretty sure my team is well aware how a JK works, but thanks for this useless information.

Really? Then why you fail to consider Pine protecting FL N1? Oh, right, it doesn't fit your agenda that says Pine is scum And really bad at it too, he made terrible claim having full knowledge of setup and then he claim to block his PR read N1

Would scum!Pine not target a PR read if he has blocking utility according to you?

[NorwegianboyEE]

And yes, he can explain it away as "protecting FL". That's precisely why it's a safe claim for scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, specially for Norwee, jk can protect too, not just rb, I mean, you could learn how roles from reading wiki, but for sake of this game, I'm willing to help you out this time

I’m pretty sure my team is well aware how a JK works, but thanks for this useless information.

Really? Then why you fail to consider Pine protecting FL N1? Oh, right, it doesn't fit your agenda that says Pine is scum

Really? Then why you fail to consider Pine roleblocking FL N1? Oh right, it doesn't fit your agenda that says Pine is town

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, specially for Norwee, jk can protect too, not just rb, I mean, you could learn how roles from reading wiki, but for sake of this game, I'm willing to help you out this time

I’m pretty sure my team is well aware how a JK works, but thanks for this useless information.

Really? Then why you fail to consider Pine protecting FL N1? Oh, right, it doesn't fit your agenda that says Pine is scum

Really? Then why you fail to consider Pine roleblocking FL N1? Oh right, it doesn't fit your agenda that says Pine is town

I'm not, but if he did, he wouldn't claimed it, it's not a rocket science

Why not? He claims to be JK so he has safe refuge in stating that he only did it to "protect" FL.
Your line of thought here does not prove that Pine's claim is legit.