Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[unwnd]

Wall > Gate > Keep is my preference

[unwnd]

On Day 1, there is no elimination. Instead, at any time a player may sign up to guard the Gate, the Wall, or the Keep. You may sign up for a location by voting for it (ie VOTE: Gate). Each player may only sign up to guard one location, and players may not change their chosen location. The locations are first come,

Alright

Voting - Votes must be in bold in the format VOTE: Marashu or Vote: Marashu. Strong preference for using vote tags instead of bold tags. Unvotes are nice but not required. If I think it’s a vote, it’s a vote, no tricks. Type VOTE: Marashu to vote and UNVOTE: Marashu to unvote. Votes in spoiler tags will not be counted. On D1, you may assign yourself to a location by voting for it (ie VOTE: Gate).

So you'll count votes so we can RVS @Mod?

[unwnd]

Hello!

Wall > Gate > Keep is my preference

Keep > Gate > Wall for me

You're confident you can towntell? Or that you don't want to be in a 3-way with me

Either one is cool

[unwnd]

Pretending I didn't see that

[unwnd]

I'm not sure who you are but I agree with your own assumption and felt that you have a strong capability to be town!

I am also now 10-15% more excited to play this game for some reason

To answer your question though I think I'm quite good at articulating my thoughts and being understood, however I have a disdain for leadership roles and enjoy being an observer. I want to take in my surroundings and then come to my own conclusions, while building off other perspectives

[unwnd]

I think with the Wall I'll feel more loose? I wanted to avoid Keep specifically because I'd feel some allotted pressure There has been a few recent towngames where some people get this perception of me that I personally disagree with and don't like upholding. Keep is the most traditional and that's what I work best with

[unwnd]

Yeah that's why I want it lol

I missed a period there so it probably sounded run-off

[unwnd]

Might not be a good idea for me to go to the same location as Unwnd, realistically

I want you to know I had the same exact thought, seems like we're either opposite alignment or incompatible

[unwnd]

Actually I'm gonna pull the trigger early

VOTE: Wall

[unwnd]

On Day 1, there is no elimination. Instead, at any time a player may sign up to guard the Gate, the Wall, or the Keep. You may sign up for a location by voting for it (ie VOTE: Gate). Each player may only sign up to guard one location, and players may not change their chosen location. The locations are first come, first served. At most three players can be signed up at any one location. Day 1 ends when all players except one have signed up for a location. The last player will be forced to the last location without three people at it. Then, if all three mafia members are at the same location, the town wins immediately.

Yeah I've been reading some tidbits myself, do we want to have the last person chosen the person we scumread the most?

[unwnd]

I'm feeling super refreshed and ready to play hard so pardon the glowiness from my posts

[unwnd]

I want to go to the wall since that's the only place my scumreads will matter unless I obvtown, which I probably won't cause I don't have super high motivation for mafia atm. Otherwise, I'd rather go to the wall (again, cause I probably won't obvtown)

Having a UTR decide who goes where should increase our odds of winning (of forcing someone to scumclaim by not following the plan) right?

I'm a bit confused on your preference here, I think obvtowning is way more important in the Wall than the others

[unwnd]

I'm probably not setting a great example by impulse because I think votes are locked. We could just hash things out and play D1 traditional if someone wants to keep track of votes (e.g not me)

[unwnd]

After some careful thought I think using Gate is the best null/trashpile, mostly because if we're wrong on a base assumption we can clear a wrong read or confirm an unknown

[unwnd]

It especially puts the onus on scum because they're the ones who have to decide as well

Look at me using mechanics, dread the thought

[unwnd]

Seeing as they are probably not so stupid as to do that, perhaps we should try quickly putting all the good people into two locations and then the bad people will be stuck going to the last location?

Using the the locations as a one-shot scumteam guess is... a thing we could do, but probably not the most efficient use of it given that the odds of actually getting it right are so low.

the slightest shades of Tenet.

That plan was poor because it became the focus in a game that had a proper votecount, and also it was co-opted by scum lol

[unwnd]

I think your activity is decently pure absin but I'm well aware of your capability as scum, so I'd like to extend a mutual agreement and assume you're not holding a knife behind your back

[unwnd]

When I impulse voted I didn't mean to start a movement, that seems a bit inadvisible

[unwnd]

You're my idol, Unwnd. I wanted to be just like you growing up.

Should I know who this is and should I feel uncomfortable by this statement

[unwnd]

No, you should feel VERY comfortable with it.

Spoiler:

Maybe if I typed in lowercase it'd seem cuter. :>

I don't know how to response to this so all I'm just going to sheepishly nod and assume that's what you want

[unwnd]

I have no further comment on the dealings of love, l-let's have a good game all

[unwnd]

Unwnd are you writing what you think or thinking about what to write?

I'm trying not to apply a filter this game, I think activity/social ability is really crucial this game because each minigame is pretty much a XYLO where you need to be cognizant of the people you're with

[unwnd]

Briar I think Unwnd has given us the cold shoulder because his heart may not be pure

this is tragic and I'm starting to cry a little inside.

I don't understand what I've done to garner attention besides post a lot

But that's against the point

[unwnd]

Unwnd are you writing what you think or thinking about what to write?

I'm trying not to apply a filter this game, I think activity/social ability is really crucial this game because each minigame is pretty much a XYLO where you need to be cognizant of the people you're with

Will we not get to decide collectively at each mini game?

I did not read the rules that carefully.

Personally I took it as standard voting (meaning majority vote) with just an added benefit if you're Keep/Gate

[unwnd]

I don't really mind but game-wise I don't feel it's readable, Briar

If this is how you have fun though then I won't stop you, I think I'd prefer if your comfortable regardless because nothing suggests to me you won't have reads eventually

[unwnd]

Briar I think Unwnd has given us the cold shoulder because his heart may not be pure

this is tragic and I'm starting to cry a little inside.

Unwnd are you writing what you think or thinking about what to write?

Assuming this is why you're thinking that? Explain please.

It feels like he's thinking of what to say instead of just reacting in the moment and I feel a shadow there.

Your assumption isn't wrong, but that is far more telling in the opposite direction of how you're preemptively reading me, in terms of self-bias

[unwnd]

I am very much town this game, I've left paper trails on how I behave as scum in the games I've been scum in. You can go look at them if you like

I assume right now you/Briar are townreading each other due to fondness?

[unwnd]

She seemed warm to you, mentioning that you seem to understand her. I felt a lot of emotional resonance between you two

[unwnd]

I think what's going on right now (despite being apart of it) is that you have different players who appreciate different things. When it came to absin, I gave her a loaded question because I wanted to engage an unknown. To my surprise, absin was actually quite known and perked me up a bit. My question to you Ana is why the means of which me/absin had conversation vastly telling to how you/Briar did?

[unwnd]

I caution that you don't instantly lock, I'm starting regret that choice a bit in hindsight

[unwnd]

I think that I personally would prefer the Gate. But there appears to be a discussion on the best way to assign people to groups, so I can wait for that conversation to happen before I lock in my choice

What drives that preference?

Because so far, I do not think that I have had a single correct scum read in any completed game I have played in, and at the gate there is a 66% chance that I will automatically know the alignment of every player in my group

Spoiler:

I believe unwnd, catboi, and you can all attest to the level at which my scum reading ability is lacking

You shouldn't think harshly of yourself, my post-game thoughts were genuine

Moreover, I don't want to feel like you'd just be making excuses for a bad read due to incompetence

[unwnd]

So, the thing is with my response to Anastasia is that there's basically a certain ~type~ of personality that I tend to mesh easily and well with whether or not I know them, and I trust that to a degree they're fine with me displaying a sort of friendly warmth/playfulness and will reciprocate in kind or at the very least not find it weird, and given that Ana did more than that I was fine going along with it.

It's harder to have that sort of connection with like, absinthe/unwnd this game (even if I know the latter) just because of who they are as people. Which isn't a bad thing by any means because I like both of them! But it's just easier for me to get comfortable with someone like Ana at least more openly.

As for my actual read on her, it's townread right now. It's not so much for content but like... in my head, there's two paths, and the one where she's town currently involves her like... being able to read these things from me as a person and then take the /further/ step from that where she assume that "If I buddy up to Briar, she will be less willing to kill me, because Briar doesn't like killing her friends" (which is an unfortunate flaw of my game), and then goes to hype me up/etc. Which is a really big fucking stretch (UNLESS she is an alt, who has played with me and then read me as my main which is another big stretch I have to make to get to her being scum IMO) compared to her just being town and she's vibing with me right now, so that's that.

Maybe I'm being too kind because I do like her posts from a strictly non-game perspective and don't want her to be scum but regardless of that I see town. Even her opening posts (which I think absinthe/unwnd?) said pinged them read as... awkward more than scummy. SO, yeah.

If what you're implying in the bold is true then why was your first gut reaction to kiss up to me? Was your intent to get a reaction out of me and turn it into a read, or was it similar to Ana in some regard where you saw someone familiar and felt like starting there?

[unwnd]

Unfortunately your response tells me this game is going to be more difficult than I want it to be, but I acknowledge the response regardless

[unwnd]

So, the thing is with my response to Anastasia is that there's basically a certain ~type~ of personality that I tend to mesh easily and well with whether or not I know them, and I trust that to a degree they're fine with me displaying a sort of friendly warmth/playfulness and will reciprocate in kind or at the very least not find it weird, and given that Ana did more than that I was fine going along with it.

It's harder to have that sort of connection with like, absinthe/unwnd this game (even if I know the latter) just because of who they are as people. Which isn't a bad thing by any means because I like both of them! But it's just easier for me to get comfortable with someone like Ana at least more openly.

As for my actual read on her, it's townread right now. It's not so much for content but like... in my head, there's two paths, and the one where she's town currently involves her like... being able to read these things from me as a person and then take the /further/ step from that where she assume that "If I buddy up to Briar, she will be less willing to kill me, because Briar doesn't like killing her friends" (which is an unfortunate flaw of my game), and then goes to hype me up/etc. Which is a really big fucking stretch (UNLESS she is an alt, who has played with me and then read me as my main which is another big stretch I have to make to get to her being scum IMO) compared to her just being town and she's vibing with me right now, so that's that.

Maybe I'm being too kind because I do like her posts from a strictly non-game perspective and don't want her to be scum but regardless of that I see town. Even her opening posts (which I think absinthe/unwnd?) said pinged them read as... awkward more than scummy. SO, yeah.

If what you're implying in the bold is true then why was your first gut reaction to kiss up to me? Was your intent to get a reaction out of me and turn it into a read, or was it similar to Ana in some regard where you saw someone familiar and felt like starting there?

The latter really, I just like you as a player and we've only ever had positive/fun times together that I can recall, so it was fun to post those sort of things jokingly at you. But you're not like, as much to reciprocate that same energy in general.

I should explain more: I've seen you rather recently not like the like, extent a social aspect has taken root of a game, so I came into it knowing that you wouldn't most likely post back in the same vein as I was but it wasn't a big deal to me that you wouldn't, if that makes sense?

Some recent games I have indeed been a bit of a prick. It wasn't intentional on my part but I get really tilted by some things. One of them is how I want the game to played, which usually contrasts with how it's played. My understanding of You/Ana right now is that you're social players and feed off the energy of the room, while not getting caught up in details. I think that behavior is the most easily faked and something that is harder to read because of it.

[unwnd]

I think what's going on right now (despite being apart of it) is that you have different players who appreciate different things. When it came to absin, I gave her a loaded question because I wanted to engage an unknown. To my surprise, absin was actually quite known and perked me up a bit. My question to you Ana is why the means of which me/absin had conversation vastly telling to how you/Briar did?

Your question confuses me.

You do understand I know I'm town right?

And you understand I am as well? My point was that we see the game differently and want different things out of it. If I'm being blunt I'm not further to determining your alignment after what happened with you/Briar.

[unwnd]

Some recent games I have indeed been a bit of a prick. It wasn't intentional on my part but I get really tilted by some things. One of them is how I want the game to played, which usually contrasts with how it's played. My understanding of You/Ana right now is that you're social players and feed off the energy of the room, while not getting caught up in details. I think that behavior is the most easily faked and something that is harder to read because of it.

Ok but do you think we are scum trying to pretend to be town?

Your explanation is pedantic without substance.

If you think our behavior is NAI I don't see the point of pretending you are very bothered by it.

I think that if you're scum you're going to play up your best traits in order to be townread

If you're town, those should come naturally?

[unwnd]

I think as it stands I think I'd like to see how the room feels about these interactions before I come to my own conclusion

Right now I would give you benefit of the doubt however Briar purely in terms of your openness. I don't know what Ana exactly wants from me but I'm sure we can figure it out.

[unwnd]

I think that if you're scum you're going to play up your best traits in order to be townread

If you're town, those should come naturally?

None of this explains why you don't want me and Briar to have fun vibing.

If you think what we are doing is fake-able, then it's NAI behavior and not really important to the game - your mood should be indifference.

If you think what we are doing is scum theater, your mood should be suspicion.

Instead I'd say your mood is that of being "annoyed" - which fits well into the mindset of a scum who is upset that town players are giving each other townreads off NAI content as it tips the balance of the setup.

I'm not annoyed though, I'm giving you an olive branch when it comes to this interpretation.

Let me try to rephrase what I wanted to say:

Me and absin value different things and look for different tells, and the way in which we decode information. I am much more familiar with her mindset.

However,

You and Briar seemed to have the same reaction to one another. Why is a different approach inherently scummy to you? I noted that you didn't really care for absin's scumread on you but I don't want to turn this into a Me/Absin vs. You/Briar because I don't think that's what is really happening.

[unwnd]

The approach isn't what is scummy to me - it's the emotional undertone I'm reading in the post and how it doesn't match up with the mindset.

I try really hard to not let my emotions guide my decisions. Do you think that's foolish of me?

[unwnd]

If I were undertaking everything going on right now with an unguarded mindset:

I liked Absin's mentality early and was willing to give it a pass.
I would think Briar is making me feel good about myself. I appreciate that to a sentimental degree.
I think you (Ana) are very sensitive to my alignment and want to figure out what it is, so you're picking through my logic and trying to find inconsistencies. I don't think the notion is scummy and I want to believe it's in best interest.

Now I'm gonna let you in on my problem with this-- There's 9 players in this game and maybe in some perfect world you all 3 can be town. Do I foolishly believe that? Do you think Me/Absin could be scum together, or was her scumreading you a kneejerk response?

[unwnd]

#176 should clarify my thoughts hopefully

[unwnd]

In general I think he has a dry sort of way in how he posts/presents himself comparatively to some people but I don't actually get the feeling that he's frustrated over what's happening so much as like... trying to get it since it doesn't make a lot of sense to him? That matches up with how I known unwnd as a player and when he's been around situations where people are basing things in social cues/reads versus gamestate, etc.

Though the caveat is that in recent memory I do remember him sort of flippantly going "meh, I'm not here for this sort of thing/don't like it" as previously mentioned so I don't know if I should be reading more into him trying to understand it all, like he's putting in more work here over it.

This is shockingly astute and I slightly fear you now

[unwnd]

I take back what I said about my scumreads mattering, I didn't realize we all got to vote on all the minigames. I still feel like the wall is the place where obvtowning is the least important (because if you're not conftown at the gate, you need to obvtown to not get limmed, and at the keep you need to obvtown to get voted). Unwnd why do you disagree?

@unwnd

It's a much better leverage to go into a XYLO with no clear with one person you slightly trust over two people you don't trust at all. You can use that to see how the individual feels about you townreading them or vice-versa.

[unwnd]

I think you (Ana) are very sensitive to my alignment and want to figure out what it is, so you're picking through my logic and trying to find inconsistencies. I don't think the notion is scummy and I want to believe it's in best interest.

I try to solve the important people first.

Do you think I'm faking my solving of your alignment?

I'm not sure yet, could you get back to me on the other stance I provided re: Absin/Me being scum together?

[unwnd]

It's a much better leverage to go into a XYLO with no clear with one person you slightly trust over two people you don't trust at all. You can use that to see how the individual feels about you townreading them or vice-versa.

Yeah but in the other minigames there's a much more direct mechanical incentive to be obvtown

Yes but you sort of said it yourself even if you don't realize

There's mechanical incentive, the XYLO has none. It's the most traditional form out of the other two.

[unwnd]

I'm not sure yet, could you get back to me on the other stance I provided re: Absin/Me being scum together?

I have more suspicion of your slot than her slot.

Maybe it's because you've done more things in general and I'm tunneled.

I struggle with that sometimes.

So the feeling you had previously to her scumreading you was fleeting then? It seems you dictate your thoughts based on how people treat you.

[unwnd]

I am very happy I opened my role PM and it is wonderfully green!

I scumread this post. :/

I am sad that you are either wrong or scum and I shall endeavor to figure out which.

Two scummy posts in a row. I'm not really anxious to wind up in a day 1 tunnel, but I suppose it could be worse.

I think your mindset might be wrong for how you are approaching this game.

Rather than finding those who you can trust, you are trying to spread suspicion.

I'm unsure if this is scum motivated for now.

These posts in particular, granted your backed off (maybe because I became priority), but I digress. Your response to her scumreading felt like you were a bit offended by the notion.

[unwnd]

I think I've been more irritable than unwnd has regarding the vibe stuff.

It's curious that he's gotten stick and I haven't.

I think it's a worldview that I'd like to anticipate better. Times have changed and my old ways aren't always the best. I have some gut feelings towards how they've both treated me but right now I don't think they're aligned

[unwnd]

I don't call her scum in either post...

I think maybe you misread a bit but it's fine, I don't wanna just keep addressing the point over and over.

[unwnd]

I don't think they're aligned

Does this mean "not scum together" or you think they're also unlikely to both be town?

Not scum together

[unwnd]

I liked her early impressions, wasn't specifically a statement. Hence I said 'mentality'

I wish to just let be things how they are for right now

[unwnd]

I liked her early impressions, wasn't specifically a statement. Hence I said 'mentality'

I wish to just let be things how they are for right now

It is rare for a scum to have the ability to be the most townread person in a game - most good scum excel at hiding or pushing through a mis-elim etc.

Absinthe is one of the few scum who are good at being townread while scum.

She is absolutely the most dangerous person to put in the Keep.

I think you know this, so that's why your reaction to her statement just doesn't make sense for me.

My last thought on this topic is that

I don't think it's right to tinfoil a competent player early. All you're doing is making them less approachable to others and in turn maybe even irritated. That seems especially true for absin right now, as the conversation has been more about her instead of you know, towards her. Does that make sense? I'm going to believe that if absin is doing things I agree with then well, they're just that. At least for now.

[unwnd]

I don't think this PList is one that is full of numbskulls. I am enjoying the nuance of the conversations but don't want to just make this about winning arguments. Catboi came in and felt very polarized by the thread, and I imagine that behavior will be similar to any potential scum who are just idly sitting by. Infinity also proclaimed that catboi had an awkwardness to him and if I'm not wrong she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

[unwnd]

I don't think this PList is one that is full of numbskulls. I am enjoying the nuance of the conversations but don't want to just make this about winning arguments. Catboi came in and felt very polarized by the thread, and I imagine that behavior will be similar to any potential scum who are just idly sitting by. Infinity also proclaimed that catboi had an awkwardness to him and if I'm not wrong she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

I don't understand what "polarized" is supposed to mean

Your comments to me implied you weren't going to involve yourself with what was going on prior and instead talk around it, as suggested by you feeling it was a headache lol

[unwnd]

I don't think this PList is one that is full of numbskulls. I am enjoying the nuance of the conversations but don't want to just make this about winning arguments. Catboi came in and felt very polarized by the thread, and I imagine that behavior will be similar to any potential scum who are just idly sitting by. Infinity also proclaimed that catboi had an awkwardness to him and if I'm not wrong she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

I don't understand what "polarized" is supposed to mean

Your comments to me implied you weren't going to involve yourself with what was going on prior and instead talk around it, as suggested by you feeling it was a headache lol

I wasn't trying to stay out of it, it was merely that I had a hard time grasping what the substance of the argument was actually about in my initial reading. The words seemed to quickly lose meaning. Anastasia's post about your response to absinthe brought some clarity in that regard, and I felt like it was notable your response to absinthe early was fairly casual - not to suggest that you should be inherently distrustful of her, but there seemed to be something of a lack of inquisitiveness into what she was saying.

As strange as it sounds I actually had a pretty hard time grasping it myself. I feel my behavior is becoming a bit exhaustive. I wouldn't lie that it's not making me a bit self-conscious but I'm powering through that feeling because I do still have a lot of energy. Breaks and not just exasperating yourself with constant mafia games can do that, I guess. It's aside the point. I noted that you were TRing Infinity despite her own disapproval of your posts. Do you still hold to that despite her lack of presence?

[unwnd]

I don't think this PList is one that is full of numbskulls. I am enjoying the nuance of the conversations but don't want to just make this about winning arguments. Catboi came in and felt very polarized by the thread, and I imagine that behavior will be similar to any potential scum who are just idly sitting by. Infinity also proclaimed that catboi had an awkwardness to him and if I'm not wrong she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

I don't understand what "polarized" is supposed to mean

Your comments to me implied you weren't going to involve yourself with what was going on prior and instead talk around it, as suggested by you feeling it was a headache lol

I wasn't trying to stay out of it, it was merely that I had a hard time grasping what the substance of the argument was actually about in my initial reading. The words seemed to quickly lose meaning. Anastasia's post about your response to absinthe brought some clarity in that regard, and I felt like it was notable your response to absinthe early was fairly casual - not to suggest that you should be inherently distrustful of her, but there seemed to be something of a lack of inquisitiveness into what she was saying.

As strange as it sounds I actually had a pretty hard time grasping it myself. I feel my behavior is becoming a bit exhaustive. I wouldn't lie that it's not making me a bit self-conscious but I'm powering through that feeling because I do still have a lot of energy. Breaks and not just exasperating yourself with constant mafia games can do that, I guess. It's aside the point. I noted that you were TRing Infinity despite her own disapproval of your posts. Do you still hold to that despite her lack of presence?

I had mostly felt the attitude in the post I highlighted was a towny one. Granted, the one game I played with her she was scum and my reading of her posts was "fine" for the most part and I only really caught her in connection with her partners, so I plan to be judicious with that read rather than taking it for granted, but for early in the game it's a start.

Why would you expect me to retract a read just because she disliked some of my posts? I don't townread people based on reciprocity.

You also seem to have sidestepped the point from Anastasia I was reiterating. Why did you take absinthe's confidence in "being transparent" at face value? It felt a bit too trusting.

For me her behavior feels more telling the more it goes on. Her posts were very tangible but I don't know if there was much to process. Now is this an effect because of the..other stuff going on? I don't know. Point is you're here and responding and infinity has proclaimed even from the first post that's she's a bit burnt out. I'm not going to prod at her in the same way I would you.

For me (outside of yourself) I think scum commonly in-thread don't really want to engage an argument if they don't have to. They want to slip a 'oh well I'm not a bad guy' and be all silver tongued. The action of just going 'well meh you're still town' just felt off to me.

As for why I ignored your comment on Absin-- It's because I talked enough about it. You have 50 something posts to go through if you want.

[unwnd]

I would be fine with Briar being treated as IC, her thoughts are very potent and I'm greatly enjoying her presence this game.

Maybe I am smitten, who the fuck knows

[unwnd]

My jealousy is like a stormy sea as I had joined this game with hopes of seducing unwnd but it seems his heart has been taken by another.

You tried to kill me! Or suggesting you'd be fine with killing me

You both seem like good people and I'm enjoying myself, though I didn't expect to garner this type of attention

[unwnd]

My jealousy is like a stormy sea as I had joined this game with hopes of seducing unwnd but it seems his heart has been taken by another.

You tried to kill me! Or suggesting you'd be fine with killing me

You both seem like good people and I'm enjoying myself, though I didn't expect to garner this type of attention

We're not really at the killing part of the game yet, I just wanted to figure out if I could trust you with my heart <3

When it comes down to it my true feelings are with the game of Mafia itself

If your heart is one that is the same as mine (in terms of alignment) then my answer is yes

[unwnd]

I don't have anything solid but if you wanted my GTH guess it'd be something like unwnd ss infinity

Against my best judgment I must insist upon this

Could you condense your argument as to why you think I'm scum, and as an added bonus, where Infinity/SS fit in there? Just give me something I can stare at and let your thoughts run

[unwnd]

I think it's fine if you scumread me, but regardless of that feeling you'd be doing me a service by considering my perspectives.

I'm gonna try and condense my thoughts onto you because I was the one who initiated. I want to preface this that I'm not really fond of (in particular) being held to some kind of standard because that makes me boxed in. A lot of my past games were actually a cause of that effect, feeling like I had something I needed to live up to. When it came to how I interpreted Absin, I very much her enjoy her no-nonsense and getting right down to business. That's the type of mentality I can work with as I want all the pieces in front of me. I'm very obsessive in that manner and a lot of what you're seeing right now is me not being afraid of divulging on my methods. Being more open because it's something I haven't done in a good while.

I was dreading coming to my read on you however because I think your behavior is dictated to how people represent you in the thread. You came to me and said 'unwnd I really hope you're town' and I took that as a slight gesture. Then that gesture turned into..3 or 4 pages of back and forth. You didn't like my methods when it came to how I concluded on Absin and that's fine. Disagreements aren't something I'm gonna scumread someone for. Let me also further state that my read on you is not related to what I think of you. I think the way you talk about players is very dignified and I don't get the impression you enjoy slapfighting. You just go off what you believe in and then figure it out afterwards. This makes sense to me when it comes to your initial scumread on Absin, but I can't shake the feeling that you relented only because of your stated fear. It seemed like a moment where you realized your read on Absin wasn't very planned. I feel like you still hold me at this strange standard where you scumread me but still want to send me hearts and say you're upset that I liked Briar's content or whatever. How am I supposed to feel about that in terms of the game?

[unwnd]

I don't think I've ever scumread Absinthe.

Maybe not overtly? But I've held a different interpretation. From what I gather you don't seem like a player who can't comprehend that you can dislike someone and still not claim a scumread. I got that impression from your posts, where you exercised caution. Then that turned into where we are now. I think I've right about said all I wanted to but I am generally confused by the variation between how you treated Absin and how you treated me

[unwnd]

When I talk about dislike I mean it strictly in a mafia sense?

It's alright if you adore absin, but absin can still be scum. I feel like the way you reached conclusions on her alignment simply for baring fangs is a bit unfair, and your logic that 'she wouldn't get that mad' is foolhardy. There's no doubt in my mind that absin wouldn't claw and take every advantage possible she could in order to win the game. Mind you there is nothing I would take from her as truly mean-spirited but her intentions will always remain in the game. Your read and conclusion on her did not follow, personally

[unwnd]

I have a lot of frustratingly null players I want to figure out however. I think the pairing of (You/Absin/Briar) definitely has one scum but that being said one of you has partners. I'd like to see what catboi has to say to my retort and go from there

[unwnd]

Yes please assume all confrontation is strictly in the mafia sense unless stated otherwise when it comes from me

[unwnd]

Did something change your read on me unwnd?

It's just how the game has developed. I think the 3 of you are in a position where you can't really say no to what's going on anymore. I still think out of the 3 I would place you as least likely, but I've made poor early judgments before

[unwnd]

It's just my gut when it comes to the situation. We could be playing a game where something like S_S/Infinity/Dunn could simply be overwhelmed by townies but I don't see the evidence in that world. I think the most likely answer is that scum is fully committed in you 3. Do you disagree?

[unwnd]

If ana is scum she has already decided how she's going to treat you two.

If she's town, she's letting one of you get a free point and dies for no reason.

I'm not really a fan of either scenario.

[unwnd]

It's just my gut when it comes to the situation. We could be playing a game where something like S_S/Infinity/Dunn could simply be overwhelmed by townies but I don't see the evidence in that world. I think the most likely answer is that scum is fully committed in you 3. Do you disagree?

Mmm. Maybe?

I honestly think that if there's scum in the more ~active~ people it's catboi, who made at least some posts early and attempted to have a presence. Though how it panned out is... meh, IMO.

Or S_S trying now, but I'm still working out where he's going with what he's talking about right now. It doesn't make sense to discredit Ana of all the people though, given what she's done, so it's a big ol' shrug.

You think catboi is scum? Is this a read you were holding onto?

[unwnd]

It's just my gut when it comes to the situation. We could be playing a game where something like S_S/Infinity/Dunn could simply be overwhelmed by townies but I don't see the evidence in that world. I think the most likely answer is that scum is fully committed in you 3. Do you disagree?

Mmm. Maybe?

I honestly think that if there's scum in the more ~active~ people it's catboi, who made at least some posts early and attempted to have a presence. Though how it panned out is... meh, IMO.

Or S_S trying now, but I'm still working out where he's going with what he's talking about right now. It doesn't make sense to discredit Ana of all the people though, given what she's done, so it's a big ol' shrug.

You think catboi is scum? Is this a read you were holding onto?

No? He's in the lower half of my reads, I wasn't a fan of how he approached me early on with his questioning because it seemed at odds with the tools he had to like, deal with me, I guess?

Your read is a bit parallel to mine, but again I'm awaiting input from him before discussing further

[unwnd]

Question for the thread. Should I vote myself into the keep? Like can I get a count on who is on board with that?

I think that that is the best place to put me, and Briar made a decent case for me going there as well. But now that 2 of the slots are locked in, I am worried that if I wait, I will end up somewhere else.

Are you not paying attention to what's being said right now when it comes to the swap mechanic?

[unwnd]

Question for the thread. Should I vote myself into the keep? Like can I get a count on who is on board with that?

I think that that is the best place to put me, and Briar made a decent case for me going there as well. But now that 2 of the slots are locked in, I am worried that if I wait, I will end up somewhere else.

Are you not paying attention to what's being said right now when it comes to the swap mechanic?

I know the swap mechanic exists, however, the majority of town players are going to end up where they vote today. Mafia can swap either 1 or 2 town players, dependent on if they manage to get an even spread today. So 66-83% of all town players are going to end up where they vote today.

I'm not sure where this ties in with why you wanted to move to the Keep

[unwnd]

Question for the thread. Should I vote myself into the keep? Like can I get a count on who is on board with that?

I think that that is the best place to put me, and Briar made a decent case for me going there as well. But now that 2 of the slots are locked in, I am worried that if I wait, I will end up somewhere else.

Are you not paying attention to what's being said right now when it comes to the swap mechanic?

I know the swap mechanic exists, however, the majority of town players are going to end up where they vote today. Mafia can swap either 1 or 2 town players, dependent on if they manage to get an even spread today. So 66-83% of all town players are going to end up where they vote today.

I'm not sure where this ties in with why you wanted to move to the Keep

Then maybe I am missing something from the discussion about the swap mechanic. I have said I wanted to end up in the keep since like page 6 of the thread. I thought you were saying "you know, you might be swapped out even if you go there." and my response was "I know that that is a possibility, but I am most likely to end up there if I start there.

Yeah I didn't register that initial need, and instead took you as wanting to move into Keep due to Ana's behavior towards you

I need to give this thread some needed breathing room and not completely burn out on D1, so stepping away for now

[unwnd]

I have a lot of frustratingly null players I want to figure out however. I think the pairing of (You/Absin/Briar) definitely has one scum but that being said one of you has partners. I'd like to see what catboi has to say to my retort and go from there

It's just my gut when it comes to the situation. We could be playing a game where something like S_S/Infinity/Dunn could simply be overwhelmed by townies but I don't see the evidence in that world. I think the most likely answer is that scum is fully committed in you 3. Do you disagree?

Who's the fully committed scum?

Can I get a raincheck on this?

[unwnd]

I wanted a player list I don't know super well since I wanted to play it on this account. unwnd joined after me, but I don't think we particularly vibe in games

I think that issue more comes with our circumstances. Last time we played I was trying to appeal to your sensibilities by undoing Bell's replacement. The other time (from memory) we were in separate threads and I eventually tilt-replaced out. I suppose there's that other game you won where I got limmed as your partner, but I digress.

[unwnd]

I've held my tongue a bit when it comes to coordination around who chooses what. I briefly touched upon my own ideals and why I chose my decision, but there a few things that ping me when it comes to everyone's assumptions.

For one, S_S earlier said something along the lines of 'giving reads are bad/help scum' and I never got the chance to understand why he felt that way. I think mechanical talk turns more into an obligation instead of something we can potentially use, so I'm not really getting a good read on the people who are focusing their attention on it (S_S/Lukewarm)

[unwnd]

I've held my tongue a bit when it comes to coordination around who chooses what. I briefly touched upon my own ideals and why I chose my decision, but there a few things that ping me when it comes to everyone's assumptions.

For one, S_S earlier said something along the lines of 'giving reads are bad/help scum' and I never got the chance to understand why he felt that way. I think mechanical talk turns more into an obligation instead of something we can potentially use, so I'm not really getting a good read on the people who are focusing their attention on it (S_S/Lukewarm)

Just in case you missed it S_S

[unwnd]

I like your heady analysis in trying to make the setup more approachable for town, but I do have questions myself. Don't you think that giving scum a blueprint of our plans is a bit unwise? I think you agree with that in some regard, just differently. You think giving them information in terms of reads will make it so they can manipulate the mini-games more favorly, and see it as 1's and 0's.

the more unpredictable the townies can be going into D2, the more likely it is that scum will miss a potentially winning swap and execute a losing one instead.

This is where our ideals are parallel but not touching.

[unwnd]

I also felt a bit of frustration from you? I don't really take you as someone who gets that way, but something didn't compute with how Ana is approaching the setup. You tried to rebuke her and present your own technicalities and she mostly seemed to ignore them. I'm not going to treat you as if you're just some programming robot without your own emotions, but why was it so important to you to continue to argue with her despite claiming a townread?

[unwnd]

Well actually, I guess it depends what you meant. If you meant like saying exactly who we would be voting out in different scenarios, then yeah that's unwise. But if you're just talking about general things like "we want 2 townreads at the Keep" and "we don't want any obvtown at the Gate" I think they're definitely an overall plus.

Yeah I think quoted opinions are very universal, but to get there we would probably have to discuss who is obvtown and who isn't

[unwnd]

why was it so important to you to continue to argue with her despite claiming a townread?

well if she's an influential player and likely town, then it matters more that she not be wrong, no?

I get this and tried to be a bit subtle about it earlier. I don't wanna dicuss anything further until a later point in time if that's alright with you

[unwnd]

From observation absin is very sweet but just wants to win, which doesn't interfere with how she treats people outside of the game. I think as time goes on that attitude has become more detrimental because people expect you to have an emotional response at the ready. I have to admit that way of playing in my opinion isn't very thrilling. I'm not going to say something so stark like 'I don't play this game to make friends' because that's probably impossible. There are a lot of people I end up liking both for game and personal reasons, but the personal reasons feel much more trivial. This plays in part in how I've been handling some other issues. In laymen's terms, I expect something out of my teammates and I don't want friendship to come before the objectives. I've genuinely refused to do that for a long time.

[unwnd]

I realize I wasn't invited to your conversation and that I'm holding a raincheck but

What's your read on me right now absin? You mentioned that you're not sure if this is the game where we mindmeld, but I can't see that being totally untrue

[unwnd]

It was purely for monologue sake, likely from a cause of really poor sleep. That's an unfortunate trait I've taken on this game where I'm running on 3 hours with a head full of thoughts

I wasn't trying to compare/contrast though, rather I impulsively just started to dump my thoughts. It's a behavior I wanted to correct earlier but instead am just falling deeper into it, and I apologize

[unwnd]

I find that response funny given that in my mind I've been too fucking open lol

I stand firm however that my intent was to never compare/contrast as alluded to in my previous post

[unwnd]

That's rainchecked for now

It felt a bit (without offending) like an excited child. I don't think he really thought through what it would mean to either of us and just sort of threw it out there. Do you think that lack of consideration is more telling of him as scum?

[unwnd]

I mean, I am slightly offended by that tbh. I did think about it, like I considered my how I would feel if neither of you were swapped out, and I also thought about what it would mean for me if one of you were - I just did not voice those thoughts because I was told that having that information out in the thread would be detrimental to town.

Regardless, I am reconsidering my suggestion.

Is your reconsideration only because of what I said just now?

[unwnd]

That's rainchecked for now

It felt a bit (without offending) like an excited child. I don't think he really thought through what it would mean to either of us and just sort of threw it out there. Do you think that lack of consideration is more telling of him as scum?

It fits with his personality/playstyle, imo. I think it comes from the same place that his decision to vote me before egix had a chance to vote him in the newbie game came from.

I assume that his personality would lean more towards town then in your book, given that's what he was in our last game lol

[unwnd]

I think the best for me to determine your alignment is to understand what you feel most strongly about, Luke. You've been one of my nulls for a good while because I think you're just a blip right now. Again, not trying to offend. It's just clear to me there are bigger people talking bigger things and then you're trying to get your two cents in. Maybe your averse reaction to me is a sign that you took offense because that

is

what you felt most strongly about

[unwnd]

Basing the sample size of how people are talking about the others

Official Vote Count 1.04

---

Preparation

Gate

(0): Nobody

Wall

(1): unwnd

Keep

(2): Briar, Anastasia

Unassigned

(6): Dunnstral, Infinity 324, catboi, absinthe, Lukewarm, Something_Smart

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-18 18:31:49).

Mod notes:

Only votes for the Gate, Wall, or Keep will be counted.

S_S/catboi/infinity/Dunn would be the ones as candidates for Gate? At least how I would like to use it. I'm seeing a lot of people townreading Ana which is something scum has already accepted as truth or is well, just truth.

[unwnd]

I think the best for me to determine your alignment is to understand what you feel most strongly about, Luke. You've been one of my nulls for a good while because I think you're just a blip right now. Again, not trying to offend. It's just clear to me there are bigger people talking bigger things and then you're trying to get your two cents in. Maybe your averse reaction to me is a sign that you took offense because that

is

what you felt most strongly about

Honestly, I feel like a lot of the back and forth in this thread has been around meta commentary on other players and self-meta analysis, and I am personally not a big fan of those discussions. Both because I have the least experience with other players in this lobby, and because I prefer to focus on the the game we are actually in. So there is a whole lot of content being put out there that I am both unequipped and uninterested in grappling with ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have come to realize that meta analysis is pretty big on this site tho, like people are regularly playing in alt accounts to avoid it because it is so prevalent. And like I have found it off-putting that in every game I have played in so far, has end up with people posting links to other completed games, like I have the time to read through every player in every lobby's back log

So, if it feels like there are "bigger people talking bigger things" that I am breezing past, it is because they are conversations that I don't particularly enjoy parsing through.

Despite what it seems I agree with you. I don't know where this accounts for how you'd like to read the room however. You've spent your time staying within the boundaries of discussion when it comes to the minigames (Wall, Gate, Keep) which I think is...fine. I think your content is fine despite my seeming roughness with you a bit earlier. I'm at a point where I would put you at 'wouldn't lim' if this were a traditional voting game.

Maybe your averse reaction to me is a sign that you took offense because that is what you felt most strongly about

Also, do you feel like I had a particularly adverse reaction to you?

You said you did not think that I thought about my suggestion, And I responded with a post to trying to state that I did think about my suggestion.

If anything, I was hopping that would make you more likely to engage with my suggestions, then if you were left to believe that my suggestions are made without thought behind them.

I did. I felt your decision was impulsive and the last time we talked I didn't have a true grasp of why you wanted the pairings you did. Or why you wanted to jump in. My understanding is that you're mostly using the minigames as a way of sorting who you like and don't like, and that you'd prefer to be with people that you do? Like in the sense of 'i townread them'.

[unwnd]

Maybe your averse reaction to me is a sign that you took offense because that is what you felt most strongly about

Also, do you feel like I had a particularly adverse reaction to you?

You said you did not think that I thought about my suggestion, And I responded with a post to trying to state that I did think about my suggestion.

If anything, I was hopping that would make you more likely to engage with my suggestions, then if you were left to believe that my suggestions are made without thought behind them.

I did. I felt your decision was impulsive and the last time we talked I didn't have a true grasp of why you wanted the pairings you did. Or why you wanted to jump in. My understanding is that you're mostly using the minigames as a way of sorting who you like and don't like, and that you'd prefer to be with people that you do? Like in the sense of 'i townread them'.

And that is because I was told not to explain everything too much in advance

I thought through it, and placed people based on which combinations I thought would either give us the most information from the mafia swam or from the IC choice, and leave each minigame most likely to be won by town.

I was quite honestly surprised when it ended up with the three of us together, because I definitely did not go into sorting with that in mind.

I am of the same opinion of absin that I would very much dread a 3-way there

[unwnd]

So.

What I said about 'there has to be scum in Briar/Absin/Ana' didn't really get as much attention as I'd thought. Sure Absin talked about it with me but that's because she's apart of it. It's just more likely you respond to someone calling your name out regardless of alignment. I finally got a decent nap in so I just want to say I feel a bit more prepared. I'm not willing to call all 3 town but do I agree with the majority on Ana. The initial interaction with her was my own impetus. I don't really think Ana comes in ready to die as scum and hopes the gambit just works out. She basically would have to assume Absin/Briar would feel bad for her and tinfoil the other. I also think everyone's response to her claims makes me believe she doesn't really have partners to go along with the "Plan" either. I don't really know where she sees me/s_s/infinity and my biggest guess would be that she thinks S_S is frustrated that Briar/Absin/Ana all happened to find each other as town. Placing those 3 in 'have to have scum together' was more of a comfort to me as I didn't want to believe S_S/Infinity/Lukewarm/Catboi/Dunn comprised a whole scumteam. Mind you there's more than 3 there. I still don't really feel that way, even if the person I suspect the most out of there is catboi.

[unwnd]

I think right now where I am with Briar/Absin/Ana just to tie up loose ends is that it resolves itself. Whether it be mechanically or some any other way. I would however like to still caution Ana despite her own read on me is that what she thinks is going to happen? Is probably isn't what is going to happen. And that's what S_S is trying to say too.

[unwnd]

That sounds to me like you don't think Briar/Ana are both town

[unwnd]

You've been sitting null for me though so I don't get the interjection then

[unwnd]

If I were scum and Briar/Ana were both town, I'd already be in the Keep

I'd treat this as a scumclaim

Go on

It's not town-motivated at all to lock in a vote without discussing here, especially since it encourages scum to do the same.

And if I do scum claim, what are you going to do about it?

What the hell is this bravado man

[unwnd]

If I were scum and Briar/Ana were both town, I'd already be in the Keep

I'd treat this as a scumclaim

Go on

It's not town-motivated at all to lock in a vote without discussing here, especially since it encourages scum to do the same.

And if I do scum claim, what are you going to do about it?

What the hell is this bravado man

It's not bravado, this is a continuation of me saying what I'd do if I were scum here, and why I sort of doubt briar + ana as town

So you agree with my own assumption earlier?

[unwnd]

Apologies, I'll be around more tomorrow. Tonight isn't very good.

Giving IOU to questions, I had some thoughts about the nature of the Keep-group because that's where my personal focus is but I don't want to explain them when I feel like this. So, tomorrow, hopefully.

Hope you're feeling better with whatever is ailing you.

[unwnd]

I feel like the chances are low, even though I think your solve is probably close.

I can't believe I need to suggest both of you that it isn't lol

[unwnd]

I would even go so far to say I like S_S's input

I'm not paying attention too hard to Infinity on the flipside

[unwnd]

I think you're town here but I am very against D1 solves regardless of what setup we're in. Even worse if I'm apart of the solve

[unwnd]

Spoiler:

Right now I'm sort of locked into the wall and the more shade you throw at me, the less likely you see any sort of movement

[unwnd]

Spoiler:

Right now I'm sort of locked into the wall and the more shade you throw at me, the less likely you see any sort of movement

Well let's start with the basics

Would you agree that ana/absin/briar is likely an all town keep group?

My head says no but my heart could possibly say yes

[unwnd]

I would even go so far to say I like S_S's input

what do you like about it?

And how experienced are you with S_S?

Decently? I've never been scum against him or even the opposite way. Somehow we end up being the same alignment. To me his advice/frustrations towards Ana wanting to do what she's doing is genuine, and I think the way he's talked about the setup again is more 'heady analysis' I don't really feel like scum would bother with at this point

[unwnd]

Spoiler:

Right now I'm sort of locked into the wall and the more shade you throw at me, the less likely you see any sort of movement

Well let's start with the basics

Would you agree that ana/absin/briar is likely an all town keep group?

My head says no but my heart could possibly say yes

If you think SS is town why don't you want him to join you at the Wall?

Because it probably doesn't happen? Scum can't be in the same minigame and if they are they have to switch them around....

[unwnd]

Spoiler:

Right now I'm sort of locked into the wall and the more shade you throw at me, the less likely you see any sort of movement

Well let's start with the basics

Would you agree that ana/absin/briar is likely an all town keep group?

My head says no but my heart could possibly say yes

If you think SS is town why don't you want him to join you at the Wall?

Because it probably doesn't happen? Scum can't be in the same minigame and if they are they have to switch them around....

OK I'm starting to get what you want to do but it falls completely apart knowing that I'm town lol

Like if that's what you want to happen? I'm not entirely opposed to it

I'm talking about my push to have SS/Infinity join you at the wall, you seem to be opposed to it.

I'm asking you why you would be opposed to SS joining you at the wall if you think he's town?

[unwnd]

Spoiler:

Right now I'm sort of locked into the wall and the more shade you throw at me, the less likely you see any sort of movement

Well let's start with the basics

Would you agree that ana/absin/briar is likely an all town keep group?

My head says no but my heart could possibly say yes

If you think SS is town why don't you want him to join you at the Wall?

Because it probably doesn't happen? Scum can't be in the same minigame and if they are they have to switch them around....

I'm talking about my push to have SS/Infinity join you at the wall, you seem to be opposed to it.

I'm asking you why you would be opposed to SS joining you at the wall if you think he's town?

OK I'm starting to get what you want to do but it falls completely apart knowing that I'm town lol

Like if that's what you want to happen? I'm not entirely opposed to it

Fucked that up somehow

[unwnd]

Am I allowed to choose then who I'd want in the wall with me then?

[unwnd]

For me her behavior feels more telling the more it goes on. Her posts were very tangible but I don't know if there was much to process. Now is this an effect because of the..other stuff going on? I don't know. Point is you're here and responding and infinity has proclaimed even from the first post that's she's a bit burnt out. I'm not going to prod at her in the same way I would you.

For me (outside of yourself) I think scum commonly in-thread don't really want to engage an argument if they don't have to. They want to slip a 'oh well I'm not a bad guy' and be all silver tongued. The action of just going 'well meh you're still town' just felt off to me.

As for why I ignored your comment on Absin-- It's because I talked enough about it. You have 50 something posts to go through if you want.

This seems almost totally disconnected from what I was actually saying and I'm not sure how to respond to it. I wasn't asking about you not prodding at infinity so I'm not sure why you volunteered that information. You seem to be vaguely suggesting some disagreement with my gutread but not in a particularly coherent way.

I asked Infinity why she had scumpings on me, I explained myself, I moved on. I don't have any interset in drawing out that interaction because she said the read wasn't strong and I don't feel like arguing endlessly with someone that I am town (some people in this game clearly feel different). Why would you expect me to continue to dig in there? Why would you expect it to affect my read? This doesn't make sense.

This is very strange to me - I came in, said your interactions with Anastasia were a headache, and you seemed to shade me on this, and then when I questioned you about this and actually asked something about it, you run away and say you don't want to talk about it. What's up with that? You can't give me flak for ignoring something then say you don't want to talk about it.

Re: Infinity, It became what I disliked about you and I turned the conversation on it's head. You seem to be against that however. My point was that I don't the way you resolved it by just going 'yeah you're town' bothered me. I think this about 2(?) games we've played together by now and I'd expect to have more curiosity instead of just calling it right there. You had Infinity's attention and you just..dropped it. Why? From my own end I shut down the talk about Ana because it's been talked about enough. I assume you have a decent amount of catchup to go through so I'll try not to stifle you before I combat you further

[unwnd]

Unwnd, who do you want at the wall with you?

I would take infinity honestly just to prove ana being ridiculous because I'm petty

[unwnd]

I don't like thinking about making that decision, because I truly want to believe it won't happen. I want to think that if my townread on S_S is correct right now that Infinity (even as scum) wouldn't just take that lying down or accept being in a 3-way of that caliber

[unwnd]

From my own end I shut down the talk about Ana because it's been talked about enough.

sigh.

I'm not sure what this is for

[unwnd]

#736 was my turn-in, did you miss it?

[unwnd]

The expectations are staggering of me, both in terms of my potential love interests and mafia game

[unwnd]

In my heart I think it was a good post and that's what matters, even if you found it 'underwhelming'

Love yourself before you can love others

[unwnd]

Her response didn't give me anything to work with. I'm not sure why you would have this expectation of me after a couple of games when as best as I can recall there is no reason you should have that impression, when if anything my play with you when I was town was decidedly lazy and as scum I was a bit tryhard - it doesn't make sense to me.

You feel like you're being evasive in response to questioning and trying to cut discussion off. I don't like it.

Where does the distinction lie then? I don't think it's impossible for you to be "lazy" scum, especially when the output is so frequent as it is. I'm not going to assume that is entirely what is happening however

[unwnd]

In my heart I think it was a good post and that's what matters, even if you found it 'underwhelming'

Love yourself before you can love others

assuming you've met your basic maslow hibachi of needs and can love yourself, then what are your thoughts on the rest of this knot?

I'm going to swallow my pride and say I'm willing to accept all 3 of you being town, but for my own sake I really hope it's not that easy.

[unwnd]

I think he has my best interest, or at least is very good at faking he does. GTH I would put him below Briar/S_S who are my main townreads.

[unwnd]

His abacus and numbers is appealing to me

[unwnd]

I feel like the chances are low, even though I think your solve is probably close.

I can't believe I need to suggest both of you that it isn't lol

This stance is balanced on your S_S read. :/

It..does?

[unwnd]

I feel like the chances are low, even though I think your solve is probably close.

I can't believe I need to suggest both of you that it isn't lol

This stance is balanced on your S_S read. :/

It..does?

I don't think my comment was earthshaking. more like, so trivial why did I even post it?

"close" implies at most 1 bad read in the 3p solve.

You say anastasia's solve isn't close.

From your perspective, if you're town, the solve not being close means you're townreading at least one other person in the solve.

You've expressed a townread of S_S.

My response was more selfish actually

I looked at like 'well I'm town' so there's no way it could possibly exist lol

[unwnd]

My response to Ana was very literal. I've felt for a good while she's only insistent upon this to see if she's right and nothing else

All I can continue to do is take a firm stance and say no, it wasn't related to how I read you

[unwnd]

In fact, I feel like I should live my own words - after spending several hours reading and catching up, I felt a significant part of the discussion had devolved into strategic minutiae and awkward jockeying for position and I feel the productiveness of such discussion is limited. It's very easy to get lost in the weeds of such arguments and they cease to be particularly illuminating. I think actions speak louder and I want less idle shuffling of the feet.


VOTE: Gate

I'm a little annoyed by this post, because it seems like I'm not being heard despite being dangerously close to the one of the top posters

[unwnd]

When I said 'I impulsively voted on the wall and don't want others doing it' I meant it. I can't really get a read out of you deciding why you wanted to be at the Gate. I would say Ana probably had the most natural conclusion as to why she chose the people she wanted, what she felt about that pairing, and then acted on her decisions. It's why I relented my own read and I'm an asshat. I don't want to become the standard of selfishness

[unwnd]

I genuinely don't blame you and felt prior that I didn't really have a direction myself

I just didn't have the nerve to admit it

[unwnd]

If I had to summarize myself up until this point however it'd be something like

1) Impulse voting is bad, Briar following my lead struck me but her posting has been townie
2) Ana trying to build a case on me based on expectation annoyed me, and I got obsessed with trying to explain why it was wrong
3) S_S's more grounded approach to using the setup to our benefit left me with good impressions, and his need to explain why Ana just for lack of a better term yolo'ing it is a bad idea even more so

[unwnd]

I think right now I should stop trying to force an outcome. My direction is basically just respond naturally to things instead of proving points and getting into 10 page arguments over expectation

I'm turning a new leaf, my reads haven't changed regardless

[unwnd]

When I speak about outcomes it's definitely more on the side of the argumentative process? I put a lot of thought into what I want to say and even so far as Briar described it earlier as 'Diplomatic.' I don't think you're the only one who isn't understanding me so my own admitting of defeat is just

Resetting and see what comes of it. When it comes to the other aspect of 'responding to things naturally' that's just me saying I exaggerate sometimes. I wasn't being entirely genuine when it came to Ana for example because I thought maybe I could illcit a response out of her that would give me a better read. My initial dislike was absolutely true, but I should've just backed away and let the thread progress

I wanted to clarify this because I think the basis of catboi's read on me (from what I can determine) is this action and previous ones, so we're just not understanding each other, I'd like to fix that. The same goes with you

[unwnd]

I'm actually a bit surprised you have some trouble with me, given you've seen me from a mod perspective I think twice now? Maybe once

[unwnd]

I get that sometimes a reply just uses a post as a jumping off place into what you actually want to say. It feels like a high proportion of your posts are of that nature, though, and I wonder if that's the disconnect -- that you are actually making a straightforward reply and I'm just failing at seeing it that way.

You're very correct here, at least for this game

As another topic, this is why I'm against the idea of how Ana was treating me. I don't really know how I'm going to act? I don't go into my towngames thinking 'yes, this is how I will play and it should match up to my last town game' because it never fucking does. At least not 1:1. That's where my frustration was

[unwnd]

It's fine

I hope to still meet them in different ways

[unwnd]

I don't townread her right now but I'm weighing how I feel about Infinity/catboi's early interaction especially

[unwnd]

Other points of interest is what Lukewarm does about Dunn because it seemed like he was keen on something Dunn did? But he never got around to it

[unwnd]

You didn't have to make that post Briar but I'm still pocketed by it nonetheless

[unwnd]

I want both of you to live

[unwnd]

Killing is necessary and I am willing to make the hard decisions

That influenced my choice to go the Wall

[unwnd]

I don't consider what my choice meant in terms of what people thought of me, I just chose something that I felt played to my strengths

[unwnd]

I see two alts talking about things that I don't comprehend

[unwnd]

I think the way you pocketed him during that dance was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.

I wish somebody could break my heart that way but I am so jaded inside.

Could I get a further clarification about this

Unless it outs either of your identities

One of you I'm certain of, the other not so much

[unwnd]

Yeah but it was me who was pocketed? Or someone else

[unwnd]

I'm going to assume that means it was me

I am way less hesitant to accept your love now

[unwnd]

I meant more

More hesitant

Hugely so

[unwnd]

Luke would be my choice of the uncommitted players.

I'm going to give it a few hours for serious objections and then vote keep unless convinced it's super suboptimal of me. I guess the main objection would be that I wouldn't be around very long to weigh in on the rest of the mini-games.

I assume by this choice you don't townread him as much?

[unwnd]

In fact, I feel like I should live my own words - after spending several hours reading and catching up, I felt a significant part of the discussion had devolved into strategic minutiae and awkward jockeying for position and I feel the productiveness of such discussion is limited. It's very easy to get lost in the weeds of such arguments and they cease to be particularly illuminating. I think actions speak louder and I want less idle shuffling of the feet.


VOTE: Gate

I'm a little annoyed by this post, because it seems like I'm not being heard despite being dangerously close to the one of the top posters

Why would I care what you have to say?

Because I am not infallible, I can be wrong and my read on you is largely established for gut reasons and the fact other players are more prominent in my mind

[unwnd]

Don't tell me what to do

[unwnd]

That switch confuses me a little bit, but it's good that my initial gut on absin was right

[unwnd]

I was ready to flare up my confbias on catboi but over the night my thought on S_S has diminished a little bit

[unwnd]

I was going to type up some curated analysis about the switches but I genuinely just believe infinity got caught out

[unwnd]

I'd rather not just lose you two so don't rush a hammer thanks

[unwnd]

Unwnd who do you want to eliminate from the Wall?

I did some impulsive reading last night and right now I would probably hammer dunn

[unwnd]

Spoiler:

It's because him/infinity got fucked and didn't wanna make any forced movements as the onus is on scum if there's two in a minigame

[unwnd]

Scum were afraid of moving but had to

[unwnd]

Actually that thought is slightly incorrect

Scum were

afraid

of needing to move, but because Infinity was the least, they had to dump her somewhere. It was a lose/lose situation where I think Dunn cut his losses

[unwnd]

if Unwnd/Luke are both town then he needs to jump on the wall to prevent an auto-lose

Thank you for writing that more succinctly than my dumbass could

[unwnd]

I don't expect Infinity to post at all at this point for anti-spew purposes

[unwnd]

Catboi what's your read on me now?

[unwnd]

Slightly lamenting the setup because all S_S/Catboi have to do is point the finger at the other now

[unwnd]

@Mod

Does the thread lock if a minigame is hammered? Or do we just keep going

[unwnd]

@Mod

Does the thread lock if a minigame is hammered? Or do we just keep going

I'll lock the thread very briefly to resolve the hammer, then discussion can continue.

Alright so popcorn

I want to hear people which group should be flipped first

[unwnd]

Dunn I have an itch that's it you based on the way the night went down but I'm willing to be reasonable

Did you go to the wall with me because you thought Luke was scum and you could convince me? I don't remember if you answered your intent yet

[unwnd]

I think this table is pretty much filled with good players so while I'm excited I don't want to be overly lol

[unwnd]

Dunn I have an itch that's it you based on the way the night went down but I'm willing to be reasonable

Did you go to the wall with me because you thought Luke was scum and you could convince me? I don't remember if you answered your intent yet

No, I didn't have that level of confidence on you being town over Luke, and wasn't really thinking about that. It was in my mind that we could win without dealing with my own group, if necessary

So your preference assuming is Keep > Gate > Wall then for flip order? Unless you'd rather solve in catboi/S_S first which is pretty much where I am too

[unwnd]

Okay, Ana, hear me out...

I think that S_S might be town for how Infinity was pushing him versus catboi.

(I'm treating Infinity like she's flipped scum currently which, maybe is not the best method but it's the likely outcome here.)

Re: S_S town, I was recently there with you but not anymore

[unwnd]

@Mod

What happens if deadline is met and no decision is made for any minigame?

[unwnd]

Infinity literally had to go somewhere and scum can't be in the same minigame so I'm not sure where that resolves

[unwnd]

Okay, so, for me I scumread that frustration; my assumption was that it was more the sort of frustration that comes from scum who's pissed off frankly that town has jumped the gun and has suddenly limited the options for scum to weasel in. This also compounded with the fact that I believe you were later to get into things, even just by a little bit, and lost an important moment that comes with the very beginning of games.

I wasn't upset by it and I don't think I'm hung up; frankly it was the scummiest thing that I could recall from D1. I was townreading Ana/absinthe hard, Luke/Unwnd/S_S to varying degrees, leaving you/Dunn/Infinity as the three and with you having the singular Thing that was like, the worst to me. Maybe I was being too harsh on that when it was happening because it was easy to latch onto, but I dunno. I want to believe that maybe somehow I am a good player and can get things right with my reads sometimes.

S_S was rather active mechanically, and I remembered that. Like, it made an impact on me. Maybe it was being recent that sort of... blurred my memory of you, but right now I'm trying to figure out between you two and I'm willing to take a step away from my read from yesterday.

What do you think about the Wall right now? Who would you vote out?

(And hehe.)

I mean the thing is I'm way more likely to have a restrained reaction in that situation as scum, I don't let my real feelings leak out into the game because that gets me judged. Flipping out at a townie establishing themselves as town only ends up reflecting poorly on me. Like if I were scum I'd probably come in, question you coolly, and then just gradually turn up the heat and start undermining you. But my goal isn't to do that, it's to solve whether you are town and I feel like that was reflected in my approach, I wasn't coming at you with a predetermined conclusion. In general I have a harder time keeping my emotions in check as town, it's not good thing but it just tends to happen with me.

From everything I understand of something_smart, him being active mechanically is completely and utterly NAI. Why would you treat it as a towntell?

Right now as a GTH answer I'd say unwnd at the wall based on my gut feelings from day 1 but that's not a super confident read.

You're wrong about me and a lot of things between us feel unresolved in general

[unwnd]

I mean both of the two people who has to contain scum are both scumreading me so like am I just chopped liver lol

[unwnd]

I've gotten so much attention this game from wanting to be killed and loved at the same

[unwnd]

time

[unwnd]

You're wrong about me and a lot of things between us feel unresolved in general

That feels like your fault tbh

Is it? I gave you two direct responses to try and start conversation prior to you saying 'why should you care what I think' or something like that

[unwnd]

In fact, I feel like I should live my own words - after spending several hours reading and catching up, I felt a significant part of the discussion had devolved into strategic minutiae and awkward jockeying for position and I feel the productiveness of such discussion is limited. It's very easy to get lost in the weeds of such arguments and they cease to be particularly illuminating. I think actions speak louder and I want less idle shuffling of the feet.


VOTE: Gate

I'm a little annoyed by this post, because it seems like I'm not being heard despite being dangerously close to the one of the top posters

Why would I care what you have to say?

Because I am not infallible, I can be wrong and my read on you is largely established for gut reasons and the fact other players are more prominent in my mind

"

Here

[unwnd]

So Catboi and S_S both think Unwnd at the wall... why?

I did not like 755 as it felt like playing up outrage instead of actually engaging with your (valid) point
I did not at all like unwnd's townread of me. I thought catboi's point that unwnd was trying to tie themself to me was reasonable. I don't think it's any less reasonable now that I know catboi is scum.
Their opening post today is also really weird and feels hollow considering making absinthe IC makes a lot of sense from a lot of perspectives and 1/2/0 in Wall/Gate/Keep was kinda what everyone thought anyway
I thought Lukewarm had several genuine posts that would be surprising to come from new-ish scum
I would also be surprised to see scum-you talk about how you would scumclaim by instant jumping into the 2-town Keep followed by jumping into the 2-town Wall (which your team would REALLY need to win).

Dunn reacts more strongly to direct call-outs. I've contested Dunn multiple times with both of us clashing on different ideals. I don't have an absolute tell on when he's doing it as scum, but I typically like to read him based on reactivity instead of letting him idle throughout the game

[unwnd]

So your post about the bravado was a reaction test? What reactions were you expecting as scum vs town?

pedit: @unwnd

I find when Dunn is town the ends justify the means. When he's scum, he spends a lot of time in this mode of fake thinking. There's a more general vagueness and I feel like he's less battered because he doesn't want to risk the attention. This plays in part of him idling at times. Dunn isn't a hyperposter and keeps to himself, and I don't think he's the scum to make big moves. He waits for people to make mistakes and then capitalizes on them.

[unwnd]

I find when Dunn is town the ends justify the means. When he's scum, he spends a lot of time in this mode of fake thinking. There's a more general vagueness and I feel like he's less battered because he doesn't want to risk the attention. This plays in part of him idling at times. Dunn isn't a hyperposter and keeps to himself, and I don't think he's the scum to make big moves. He waits for people to make mistakes and then capitalizes on them.

Okay so... does that explain 755? Did you know it wasn't really bravado?

It seemed pretty fake honestly yeah

[unwnd]

I've called out Dunn in games and he immediately retorts back, but I've felt uncomfortable with his maybe-townread of me given that other circumstances make me think he'd be less reluctant

[unwnd]

I find when Dunn is town the ends justify the means. When he's scum, he spends a lot of time in this mode of fake thinking. There's a more general vagueness and I feel like he's less battered because he doesn't want to risk the attention. This plays in part of him idling at times. Dunn isn't a hyperposter and keeps to himself, and I don't think he's the scum to make big moves. He waits for people to make mistakes and then capitalizes on them.

Okay so... does that explain 755? Did you know it wasn't really bravado?

It seemed pretty fake honestly yeah

Was I right or not?

Are you saying that you're not partnered with Infinity because of that post?

[unwnd]

It seemed pretty fake honestly yeah

It's... it wasn't fake though. It was a legitimate question. And it wasn't bravado because he was specifically pointing out that he wasn't scumclaiming because scumclaiming would have been a reasonable play as scum.

...No it wouldn't? This is why I shouldn't just assume your abacus always have best intentions you've lost me

[unwnd]

I find when Dunn is town the ends justify the means. When he's scum, he spends a lot of time in this mode of fake thinking. There's a more general vagueness and I feel like he's less battered because he doesn't want to risk the attention. This plays in part of him idling at times. Dunn isn't a hyperposter and keeps to himself, and I don't think he's the scum to make big moves. He waits for people to make mistakes and then capitalizes on them.

Okay so... does that explain 755? Did you know it wasn't really bravado?

It seemed pretty fake honestly yeah

Was I right or not?

Are you saying that you're not partnered with Infinity because of that post?

Not exactly

I'm saying I'm not scum because scum sat back and waited for absinthe to finally jump into the keep, whereas if I were scum either I or my team (but probably me) would have simply went into the keep before that rather than all get poe'd down at the end.

In my mind, if I'm scum, the keep is already lost if 3 town are in it, and we would have to toss 1 person in anyway. Having 1 person scum claim to join it and mess with the other 2 groups is worth it.

The current group of scum did not agree, and that became apparent when multiple people latched onto me by saying I was shading briar/ana instead of actually engaging with my points

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you voted Wall before S_S voted Gate right?

[unwnd]

Official Vote Count 1.05

---

Preparation

Gate

(1): catboi

Wall

(1): unwnd

Keep

(2): Briar, Anastasia

Unassigned

(5): Dunnstral, Infinity 324, absinthe, Lukewarm, Something_Smart

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-18 18:31:49).

Mod notes:

Only votes for the Gate, Wall, or Keep will be counted.

Official Vote Count 1.06

---

Preparation

Gate

(2): catboi, Something_Smart

Wall

(3): unwnd, Lukewarm, Dunnstral

<-- FULL

Keep

(3): Briar, Anastasia, absinthe

<-- FULL

Unassigned

(1): Infinity 324

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-18 18:31:49).

Mod notes:

Day ends when all but one player have voted.

With your theory in mind dunn Re: scum waited for absin to jump to keep that makes Infinity left out scum, one of catboi/S_S, and then Me/You/Luke having the last?

[unwnd]

I think I can see your worldview but I'm going to be honest

Thinking about mech in less conventional ways usually fucks with my head. I can work with reasoning being applied to mech but the reason I've retracted my read on S_S is that his content is almost all mech and I shouldn't just give it a pass because it sounds interesting

[unwnd]

Absin do you really think I'm just being double-bussed lol

[unwnd]

Would this game have been harder if scum had scumclaimed and locked themself in the keep day 1, yes or no?

I don't see anyone here who would kamikaze as scum

That includes ana

[unwnd]

Absin do you really think I'm just being double-bussed lol

Double?

You and catboi both think I'm scum

[unwnd]

Would this game have been harder if scum had scumclaimed and locked themself in the keep day 1, yes or no?

I don't see anyone here who would kamikaze as scum

That includes ana

I would. I would have locked myself into the keep. It's not like I was particularly townread.

That's also not what I asked, I asked if it would be harder, not if scum would actually do it

So what, like a feint? Scumclaim just to prove a point?

[unwnd]

You and catboi both think I'm scum

Well that's only a single bus

You're both scum then even if the setup literally doesn't allow that

I'm just a bit frustrated with the one of you that is town

[unwnd]

You and catboi both think I'm scum

Well that's only a single bus

You're both scum then even if the setup literally doesn't allow that

I'm just a bit frustrated with the one of you that is town

What are the reasons I should be seeing you as town?

I'm just a bit frustrated with the one of you that is town

Why? Our reads are the least relevant ones in the whole game, and it should make you look more town if it's guaranteed that scum is pushing you, no?

I don't like reading the game merely reacting to people based on my content, I'd rather come in with some choice words and try to subtly lead somewhere, hoping that my logic wins out. For both of you to think I'm scum it basically becomes 'oh great, I have to appeal to someone who is just trying to get me killed and someone who just misunderstands me' lol

[unwnd]

Not true because I literally have to read both of you, and the act of thinking I'm scum is something I'm going to ignore. I have to determine which of you is coming at me with bad intentions

[unwnd]

Yes the vote isn't particularly on me, but I want to help absin and generally I enjoy being right

[unwnd]

Not true because I literally have to read both of you

Well you don't

have

to but sure, it's a worthy goal. Is it really harder for you to wrap your head around a scumread on you than it would be for a different scumread?

My heightened feeling probably has to deal with the circumstances instead of a natural cause of things

I don't mind when people scumread me, but it's not that simple this time

[unwnd]

Is us both scumreading you going to make reading us harder somehow? IDGI

Yes because you're both going to be cagey with me given that you believe I'm scum

[unwnd]

I think I can see your worldview but I'm going to be honest

Thinking about mech in less conventional ways usually fucks with my head. I can work with reasoning being applied to mech but the reason I've retracted my read on S_S is that his content is almost all mech and I shouldn't just give it a pass because it sounds interesting

So you need to explain how you're ruling out Luke here

I read Luke's mech as in over his head instead of carefully placed like S_S would do it

[unwnd]

Scum doesn't need to work with people, they just need to pretend their arguments and convictions are town-motivated. You both don't really gain anything from being considerate of my slot, therefore I'm going to give less valuable information compared to someone you had to at least fake townread

[unwnd]

Scum doesn't need to work with people, they just need to pretend their arguments and convictions are town-motivated. You both don't really gain anything from being considerate of my slot, therefore I'm going to give less valuable information compared to someone you had to at least fake townread

Therefore I'm going to get* less valuable information

[unwnd]

Scum doesn't need to work with people, they just need to pretend their arguments and convictions are town-motivated. You both don't really gain anything from being considerate of my slot, therefore I'm going to give less valuable information compared to someone you had to at least fake townread

Therefore I'm going to get* less valuable information

But town should have a genuine interest in sorting you, right? Can you not try to distinguish that? You're confusing me here

I'd like to believe that yes? I've felt very detached from both of you however, even when I was townreading S_S

[unwnd]

I'd like some time to think even though I'm probably not the one who has to make any harsh decisions yet

[unwnd]

Please stop talking about the stupid fucking mechanics

[unwnd]

Both of your arguments are just hearsay and me needing to believe what you would do in accordance to how the night played out

Not what you've organically gained from it

[unwnd]

I just want to state that my initial TR of S_S is exclusive to what I think of him as a person. I townread his efforts thinking he was tinkering in his head to try and make a favorable outcome for town. I changed my mind on this however because I'm just going to assume the same thing I always do about mechanics: They're really fucking easy to talk about and require zero commitment. Dunn, you yourself admitted this and made the basis of your argument against Lukewarm based on (Mechanics). Okay? So why are you two going rounds about postulating theories and how the mechanics should work in your town!favor instead of the opposite. I'm not going to pay attention to it much further and I hope to god that is not what becomes the majority of conversation you will absolutely lose me if it is.

Let me state that I don't think all mechanic talk is bad. It's protown to consider how to use the setup to your advantage and line up potential good moves in accordance to it. However? I think that's passed.

[unwnd]

I think what makes this situation worse is that I know you (Dunn) would absolutely have a plan set up in your head to wriggle your way out of a lim. I mean, I was your partner in that one game where you made town believe you were a friendly neighbor or something. You would absolutely manipulate the way you are right now, but I'll give you slight credit in that I agree with ana. You probably do believe how you feel about what happened and what you did. That hwoever doesn't make it so you can't believe those feelings as scum.