Mini Normal 2252 | W;ildlife amd strange critters | Over!!

[Dwlee99]

Hey all, I'm the new JV

[Dwlee99]

Yo t3 is here let's goooo

[Dwlee99]

Yo t3 is here let's goooo

This is specifically so we don't look partnered when he flips scum btw

[Dwlee99]

Votecount 1.5

Scorpious(4)

~ Natalya(32), Azaariah(17), Egix96(6), fua(41)

JacksonVirgo(2)

~ Oman(7), the worst(28)

UglyDuck(1)

~ Andresvmb(3)

the worst(1)

~ Retti(30)

Andresvmb(1)

~ UglyDuck(3)

Andante(1)

~ JacksonVirgo(5)


Not Voting (3): Scorpious(49), Andante(70), T3(22)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

MOD REMINDERS

Multi-mod ISO: viewtopic.php?t=88352&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

FLAVOR

bird????
?????

JacksonVirgo has requested replacement

Btw does anyone know what the (#) means? Not to be like disruptive or anything oops

[Dwlee99]

That was @andante btw

Yo t3 is here let's goooo

This is specifically so we don't look partnered when he flips scum btw

Hey I started pocketing t3 first find your own pocket

He's supposed to pocket me though...

[Dwlee99]

That's what I thought til I actually clicked them :I

[Dwlee99]

Also not the case

Okay time to actually hop in let's go

[Dwlee99]

I’m back tonight btw.

Waiting for this before I continue

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Uglyduck
To up the pressure

Also realized JV was voting Andante which I don't want to do rn

[Dwlee99]

I’m back tonight btw.

Wya

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Scorp
claim please

[Dwlee99]

Yo t3 is here let's goooo

Tic
Tac
Toe

message received!

[Dwlee99]

Yea

[Dwlee99]

dwlee, do you have an actual read on scorp or are you just voting there because it's the only wagon, what's the deal?

I liked t3's point but that's about it

[Dwlee99]

Get Scorp off E-1 right now.
You don’t put someone on E-1 unless you want them to go over.

Scorp isn't on E-1 anymore

[Dwlee99]

Look if someone hammered there without claim that's basically a scum claim so I'm really not pressed about it, no matter how you feel about putting someone at e-1

[Dwlee99]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

[Dwlee99]

Look if someone hammered there without claim that's basically a scum claim so I'm really not pressed about it, no matter how you feel about putting someone at e-1

I mean you've played in games where people have hammered e-1s early and then repeatedly so I don't really think town!you is this cavalier about it.

Yea I mean a50 literally just threw a game quickhammering day before ELO

But it's D1

[Dwlee99]

There's also a cop getting hammered in a scum game I played recently but apparently we think Scorpius is claiming VT so why do we care

[Dwlee99]

I still don’t see Natalya as scum. It would take a lot to convince me differently.

As I said I’m a sucker for activity and both her and Andante satisfy me there.

If this is town I actually want to inverse this read

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Scorp
claim please

Hot take; I actually don’t think this is alignment indicative for Dwlee. From my experience with Scum Dwlee he tends to be a lot more self-aware and composed, and putting someone up to E-1 halfway through D1 with the intent of making them claim is kind of a normal Dwlee thing to do. Not saying he’s town— just that this doesn’t say a lot about his alignment at all.

Personally, I actually think that T3 comes off looking worse for his Scorpious vote since it’s just echoing what’s been said multiple times before and is kind of just… basic surface level commentary? I wanna hear some other opinions on this take first, though.

I'm so far in your pocket rn holy crap
VOTE: T3

[Dwlee99]

Natalya is saying I'm obvious as scum

That's meta

It's also not true but that's cause meta bad

[Dwlee99]

or it's how the english language works ?

[Dwlee99]

Look if someone hammered there without claim that's basically a scum claim so I'm really not pressed about it, no matter how you feel about putting someone at e-1

It’s weird though that your first real anything is to put someone on e-1.

But, I don’t think scum would be so obvious.

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

"I don't think scum would be obvious"

"dwlee-scum" (aka dwlee as scum, cause hyphen) "really is that obvious"

Dwlee as scum is obvious

how else do you read this

[Dwlee99]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

I am replying to Scorp saying that he is townreading you for being "too obvious"

My point is that it is a bad reason to townread you because I've seen you be extremely obvious scum in the past.

Do you disagree on that being a bad reason to townread you?

It'd be a worse reason if it was 2016

Now it's like maybe fine

Actually two months ago it'd be fine but I kinda openwolfed at the end of PYP so who knows

TLDR: meta bad

[Dwlee99]

I'm forever JV

[Dwlee99]

I always want to kill t3

[Dwlee99]

I think t3 will do alignment indicative things if we wagon him, but also, I think he is mildly scummy

[Dwlee99]

Spoiler: t3 don't open this

I have no idea how to read t3. He actually reminds me a lot of how I played back in the day, and my radar is not well-tuned to figuring out the alignment of people who play like that

[Dwlee99]

Kinda how he pushed Scorpius maybe

[Dwlee99]

If I had to say who I think is most likely scum rn I don't think I'd pick t3 though. I'm not a fan of azaariah for omgus reasons

[Dwlee99]

Kinda how he pushed Scorpius maybe

what did you not like about it?

What other people said - kinda just generic point and t3 has kinda a tone incongruency maybe?

I think t3 will do alignment indicative things if we wagon him, but also, I think he is mildly scummy

I think t3 will do alignment indicative things if we wagon him, but also, I think he is mildly scummy

Spoiler: t3 don't open this

I have no idea how to read t3. He actually reminds me a lot of how I played back in the day, and my radar is not well-tuned to figuring out the alignment of people who play like that

How can you say they will do AI things then literally say in the next post you don’t know how to read them?

My brain works in mysterious ways...

[Dwlee99]

You need to type out [quote], [q] doesn't exist

[Dwlee99]

Kinda how he pushed Scorpius maybe

I have trouble with your thoughts on why you voted for T3 because approx 5 minutes after T3 push-voted Scorp to E-2, you followed up and put Scorp on E-1 so it's kind of weird that you would sheep T3 on Scorp and then turn around and vote T3 for how he pushed Scorp. It feels like your progression is not well thought out and you are kind of opportunistic in how you vote for players you think are easier to elim.

I didn't think too hard about sheeping t3 there and only really thought about his post more later

I just want t3 to do more things rn

[Dwlee99]

UglyDuck just spent like 9 days preparing completely lukewarm recycled reads and I'm kind of surprised that's not getting as much attention as I'd hoped?

VOTE: UglyDuck this isn't for pressure I think he's fairly likely to actually flip red

VOTE: Uglyduck

Actually yea

This is a good point

[Dwlee99]

I have a weird feeling t3 is town this game but if he isn't he is in my head get out of my head get out of my head get out of my head

[Dwlee99]

so you think scum me would lie about something like a rvs vote? i did have thoughts on the game but everything about every thought was solely about andante basically and i didn't want to talk about that yet. that first post with the vote was the equivalent of a prodge post for me.

someone said i might be scum for the bad vote on you. im not sure why you seem to think scum me would be so nervous about this one scum read on me that i could've easily fixed with a little extra content in my posts.

I really don’t think that you’re scummy for that post in particular anymore— it was probably just a miscommunication of intent given the context and I don’t want you limmed today. I think Scorp was calling out Duck’s read of me as fabricated and hedging. Basically all of Duck’s reads boil down to “I think this person is one alignment,

but

because of (X), they could also be the other alignment!” Which makes me think he isn’t really trying to hunt for scum at all.

Switch to the duck from t3?

[Dwlee99]

[Dwlee99]

T3 why haven't you said I'm town by meta yet, kinda weird

[Dwlee99]

So ugly why do you scumread me

Saying I'm your counterwagon is a cheating answer btw

[Dwlee99]

I'm not sure I really understand why people are townreading dwlee. Since replacing in they've essentially made a few naked bandwagon votes and that's it. Not seeing anything in the way of trying to actually solve people? I didn't really like the response to Natalya in 500 either, just felt overly defensive. Leaning scum.

Bandwagoning isn't a scum tell and I expect you to know that

[Dwlee99]

Oh wait your join date is 2021, not 2011

[Dwlee99]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

And you didn't post link

Yea this isn't defensive, this is calling Natalya out on using meta on an alt

If it was a meta townread I'd say the same thing

If Natalya is scum they literally can claim a meta read in any direction on absolutely nothing, which is what they're doing right now so...

[Dwlee99]

Natalya will probably say "I played with you x months ago, it was different"

Yea, my playstyle is always changing based on energy level and commitment to a game and enjoyment and playerlist and the amount of chicken I ate this month

But Natalya can make this argument with zero risk because there's no one to check they've even had experience with me as both alignments in the first place

They can just wave their hands in the air on my flip and be all Pikachu face like oh nooo how could I see this coming

[Dwlee99]

Sometimes the Level 0 read works because everyone assumes scum wouldn't do the cliche scummy thing so scum do it because it benefits them and they get a pass. This is 4th dimensional chess.

Okay, but I don't think you'd catch me on level zero stuff except by coincidence

[Dwlee99]

I think dueling wagons on UD/Dwlee are fine imo.

I vastly prefer Dwlee at this point, I can't really see them as town currently.

Based on you being wrong on me. And me really not finding DWLee scum,I’m kinda looking at you being 0 for 2 here..

If you had to decide on a hammer.. which of the two would it be?

This is a useless question and shows you're not really reading hmm

[Dwlee99]

Literally read the second line that you quoted...

[Dwlee99]

But your question was answered right there

She'd prefer me over UD

I don't understand

[Dwlee99]

Bro are you mad I replaced in

[Dwlee99]

xd okay we taking a break from this line of interaction

[Dwlee99]

Too bad

[Dwlee99]

Your question makes no sense reading the second line unless you mean something other than what I thought, that's why

[Dwlee99]

We save time this way :^)

[Dwlee99]

... okay

[Dwlee99]

Me still trying to figure out what your question actually meant like

Also, not sure how I blew the question up if I didn't even answer the one you were supposed to be asking but good talk !

[Dwlee99]

I literally don't care

[Dwlee99]

I held my phone a weird way and it typed poop poop and how accurate

[Dwlee99]

Thank you

[Dwlee99]

I'm having fun if you're having fun

[Dwlee99]

Well that's not nice

[Dwlee99]

I'd presume that would out your alt but feel free if you want to

[Dwlee99]

I'm not playing dumb. I assumed you wouldn't cite anything to avoid outing your alt

[Dwlee99]

T3 wtf

That's e-1 btw

[Dwlee99]

Most people do?

[Dwlee99]

Why is this what you want to talk about

[Dwlee99]

Yea math checks out okay

[Dwlee99]

I think they make sense

[Dwlee99]

Ok, so I will say that I wanted to explain more on that cause I was mobile, and mobile is a pain, I didn't realize Natalya unvoted, and I was like "I KNOW NATALYA IS VOTING, WHY IS SHE NOT TAKING HER VOTE OFF???" I don't think maf would be bold enough to put on e-1 and go "claim" that early, so I'm pretty sure dwlee town, but T-3 there, I SR T3 a lot. like "oh hey im putting you e-2 lol" immediately after egix stuff.

I hate this so much because you just finished a game with scum!dwlee where scum!dwlee puts a town player at e-1 for a weird/bad reason on d1.

also similarly dwlee is not solving and barely playing after repping in.

viewtopic.php?t=88203&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This is the iso for reference ^ the 14th post in this ISO is Dwlee putting Gamma at E-1 on D1 when Gamma is town. Look at the posts before Post 14, very little solving intent.

"Similarly dwlee is not solving"

Except I am solving this game ?

[Dwlee99]

I mean I express an implied townread on andante when I switch my vote off of her

[Dwlee99]

You're also like... cherry picking one scum game to make a meta case from. You might as well say I posted with a frog hat profile picture so I'm scum cause I had a frog hat profile picture in that game too

[Dwlee99]

I'm scared if you can feel that confident townreading me here.

[Dwlee99]

Natalya quoted for you where I did the exact same thing as scum in a game you were in

[Dwlee99]

Well maybe not exact same, but E-1ing someone like that

[Dwlee99]

Gonna assume that means you were here and ignoring 684 and 685

[Dwlee99]

Your case on me is "you E-1'd someone as scum shortly after replace in" like that is a case at all

Meta is bad, especially if you aren't even going to look at any town games

[Dwlee99]

viewtopic.php?t=88034&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[Dwlee99]

viewtopic.php?t=87275&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[Dwlee99]

You played with me in MBOS

[Dwlee99]

Your case on me is "you E-1'd someone as scum shortly after replace in" like that is a case at all

Meta is bad, especially if you aren't even going to look at any town games

This is just a strawman.

I have already addressed this before.

You repeating this means you are doing this performatively to try to spam the thread.

Or I think your case is shit

cause it is

[Dwlee99]

viewtopic.php?t=88034&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This is a trust fall game that was already solved before you replaced into it

Like I read it enough to know that

I solved ydrasse town

[Dwlee99]

Actually that's not even anywhere close to a strawman, you're full of shit

I say you are citing meta to scumread as an alt, and you say oh no I have meta and you quote a game saying I didn't solve on replace in and E-1'd someone. That's not a strawman, that's literally your case.

You cited ONE scum game, NO town games, to say something I do is scum-indicative. That's bad, even for how bad meta already is by default.

But anyway, that's your case, and when I challenge it you just ignore me and claim I'm spamming and have "already addressed" it. No you haven't, your meta argument is dog water

[Dwlee99]

They are not actively solving, they seem to be moving their vote from wagon to wagon based on who is easiest to kill/where the momentum is moving.

the progression from sheeping T3 by putting Scorp at E-1 and then voting T3 for T3's vote/push on Scorp is particularly egregious in terms of not making any sense.

They then moved off T3 before T3 even responded to vote for UglyDuck.

Just because I don't make sense to

you

doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to

me

[Dwlee99]

You cited ONE scum game, NO town games, to say something I do is scum-indicative. That's bad, even for how bad meta already is by default.

This is literally not what I did.

Someone said they townread you for something you did this game.

I disagreed with that townread and cited a case when you did it as scum as a counterexample.

So at best the thing they are townreading you for is NAI as you have exhibited this behavior in the past.

this was AFTER I said you couldn't cite your meta on me

And then you cited that and said "oh why would you think I wouldn't cite my meta !!"

Okay so did you cite your meta or did you not?

[Dwlee99]

When confronted with this, they are defending by strawmanning the case against them by reducing it to "meta bad" when they know there's more to it then this.

Their defensive responses feel pointless except to thread-spam and make things look unreadable.

There's no real curiosity behind their questions, most of them seem designed to combat/fight off the push.

They have not expressed strong preference for UD or made a strong case for elimming UD because I don't think they are actually that interested in anything other than survival.

I don't have a strong preference for UD because THEY'VE MADE LIKE TEN POSTS THIS GAME

[Dwlee99]

okay I don't want to speak to you either

[Dwlee99]

Natalya's argument (third person so you don't respond to me) is basically that I'm flailing and that makes me scum

also bullshit

[Dwlee99]

goodnight

[Dwlee99]

full of shit is emotionally charged I suppose

mm

I'm going to flail at your case if I interact with it

This is NAI

It's very frustrating when you say I'm scummy for it

I know your case is bad and wrong

I feel kinda like I'm being gish galloped which just makes the flail worse if I try to interact with it

[Dwlee99]

5 people think it's me. A different 5 think it's UD

[Dwlee99]

Part of me thinks it's Natalya

[Dwlee99]

Also yeah I was going more for like a sassy thing than smug. I don't like smug except ironically.

[Dwlee99]

I thought t3 was town but his vote on me was bad and he just... hasn't elaborated. It's like the *refuses to elaborate* meme

[Dwlee99]

It was day 1 in that one. But yea my reasoning was the self-vote in that one

[Dwlee99]

5 people think it's me. A different 5 think it's UD

Well, you’re good Scum so if you’re getting wagoned D1, it’s probably incorrect.

Andres can I get a timeframe for when you're going to find scum

[Dwlee99]

Want to let you read but I'm feeling hyperactive today

[Dwlee99]

5 people think it's me. A different 5 think it's UD

Well, you’re good Scum so if you’re getting wagoned D1, it’s probably incorrect.

Andres can I get a timeframe for when you're going to find scum

If I identify one Scum today do I get a cookie?

I'll give you ONE cookie

[Dwlee99]

I thought t3 was town but his vote on me was bad and he just... hasn't elaborated. It's like the *refuses to elaborate* meme

I don't have anything to elaborate on.
You're null in my reads. I think pressuring you will help me get a better read.

Hmm touché lol

What have you learned

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee what’s the logic behind all your votes thus far?

The votes on me or the ones I've placed?

The votes on me are either Natalya who I think has the sPooks after seeing me as scum a bunch and is associating playstyle with me being scum, and other people who just keep saying they kinda vaguely maybe think it's me for voting a bunch. If you're t3 you'll think this was supposedly a meta town tell at least at one point (the logic broke in two of my scum games and maybe a town game, so he stopped mentioning it)

The votes I placed have been mostly to try to apply pressure places, which I think is pretty self-explanatory. My Uglyduck vote rn though is just pretty much like... they're not doing anything. 797 is admitting as much imo, and that Natalya is pushing me in part for not being like "more convinced" about their slot being scum is pretty frustrating. If they don't have a lot of posts, the read can't be THAT confident. But it feels enough to me for day one. Reminds me of a game (uRoll specifically) where I thought someone was scum day one, Loftwing hard pushed me cause my justification was "too weak" and then I got the lim and they flipped mafia

[Dwlee99]

Also I think UD just conveniently skipped the post I swear I remember making asking why he is voting me

[Dwlee99]

So ugly why do you scumread me

Saying I'm your counterwagon is a cheating answer btw

[Dwlee99]

I thought t3 was town but his vote on me was bad and he just... hasn't elaborated. It's like the *refuses to elaborate* meme

Why did you even think he was town in the first place

Vibes

[Dwlee99]

I'm pretty frustrated with 782 if oman is town, which is where I was leaning before it was made. Has no reason to townread Uglyduck, and in fact has reasons to scumread him. Has reasons to townread me (I mean I'm assuming that's why you'd mention a mini mindmeld?)

Places UD vote on me as has feelings depending on my flip.

I see he wants to switch UD if we are still in this position but like... all signs point that he should be switching now, not later, right? If UD's vote is scum-indicative on my town flip, and I'm just probabilistically more likey to be town than scum AND there are reasons to townread me / scumread Uglyduck it just doesn't make sense for him to position like this imo

[Dwlee99]

Like I just get this overwhelming vibe of incongruency between thought and action, ESPECIALLY on a Uglyduck red flip, and this is where I'd go tomorrow if UD is red

[Dwlee99]

JV/Dwelee - JV did essentially what I have done to this point, so not reading into that. DW I do not like the E-1, or more specifically I do not like asking for the claim. I agree with their logic that a hammer that early on would be pretttttyyyyy skummy... but then run that all back... why ask for the claim? That general logic does not seem to add up to me. That being said, I generally hate meta cases because they are an easy avenue for skum to push when they need something, so pushing against it is worth something.

And this is what we have from UD on the topic of why I'm scum, but it's like all waffle

[Dwlee99]

Votecount 1.9

UglyDuck(5)

~ Andresvmb(10), the worst(74), Dwlee99(100), fua(66), Scorpious(86)

Dwlee99(5)

~ Natalya(85), Oman(19), Azaariah(27), UglyDuck(11), T3(45)

T3(2)

~ Andante(138), Retti(79)

Scorpious(1)

~ Egix96(9)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

I hate my wagon right now. Normally I feel like I would have a townread on someone voting me but I just... don't beyond kind of feeling like Natalya and t3 are like probably town but I'm not feeling GREAT about it cause yea. My natalya read kinda just hard biased by their push on me. Uglyduck wagon looks pure actually. Hero solve: Oman/Azaariah/Uglyduck?

[Dwlee99]

My reads on my wagon expanded edition:

Natalya: I feel like you're pushing me for pattern recognition without considering playstyle, but the fact that the pattern recognition occurred makes me think you're thinking critically and town?

Oman: see my post on their post. Keeping the vote on me makes no sense with that post, and yes this is partly preflip with Uglyduck but that post was bad bad bad.

Azaariah: voted me for thinking Natalya was using meta, when Natalya for sure was using meta. Has dipped. Nothing here impresses me, and just felt like a scum hop on. Also this is part poe cause I townread people off my wagon and I can explain those if people want but I'm focusing on my wagon right now.

Uglyduck: ISO kinda empty. Read on me is waffle -> top scumread -> ignoring request for explanation on why they scum read me. Feels like they're blatantly voting the counterwagon to them and frozen to come up with an actual justification to it.

T3: Saying he is voting me to put pressure on me to read me is a total touché moment I want to townread him. I had some vibe he was town but fuck if I know most of the time with t3. A slot is >rand to roll town by default, so let's leave him there lol

[Dwlee99]

Oh before someone asks: yes

[Dwlee99]

i have a hard time believing dwlee actually scumreads uglyducks. the wagon analysis is not my favorite either. i feel like there's just a bit too much focus on how much they are frustrated as opposed to content. in general, the reasons to vote people aren't going to be that good. votes are just ways to express that we agree with a certain thought. nothing more nothing less.

dwlee seems to flip between frustrated/ateing and extremely towny solving from these last couple posts and i feel like it's sort of the panic of a player who is struggling to figure out which scum tactic they should use. i might be thinking too much but im willing to mislim town on day one because i think this flip gives good information anyways. the worse case scenario is just a pr out and that sucks but we'll still be fine honestly.

Extremely towny solving and you want to flip me

And a touch of Beetlejuice

Yea you're scum

[Dwlee99]

And too much frustrated to content ratio

Seriously

I have over 100 posts in a game I replaced into 5 days ago

[Dwlee99]

And the "wagon analysis" is just my reads on the people on my wagon, which makes me think you just didn't bother reading that post

[Dwlee99]

it's not towny at all to be flipping between the two. feel free to explain your scum read on me later but wording is not a scum tell.

Expressing frustration at certain things isn't scummy either. My read on you is explained, doesn't need more

[Dwlee99]

i did read the "wagon analysis"
scum hop on is a really lazy way to sum up my posts in this game. i did not read the other reads because i didn't feel inclined to. in general, it feels like you are ateing but trying to cover it up with "solvy" posts. i find the solvy posts on their own pretty towny but with the ate, i don't feel good about either.

Read my posts if you're town

Your vote on me was just a shitty hop on and you never followed up on your thing about me interpreting it as meta and why that was scummy. If you're town I'd expect you to follow up on tools to read people, not just show up when mentioned

[Dwlee99]

Votecount 1.9

UglyDuck(5)

~ Andresvmb(10), the worst(74), Dwlee99(100), fua(66), Scorpious(86)

Dwlee99(5)

~ Natalya(85), Oman(19), Azaariah(27), UglyDuck(11), T3(45)

T3(2)

~ Andante(138), Retti(79)

Scorpious(1)

~ Egix96(9)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

I hate my wagon right now. Normally I feel like I would have a townread on someone voting me but I just... don't beyond kind of feeling like Natalya and t3 are like probably town but I'm not feeling GREAT about it cause yea. My natalya read kinda just hard biased by their push on me. Uglyduck wagon looks pure actually. Hero solve: Oman/Azaariah/Uglyduck?

How do you feel about the makeup of the UD wagon right now?

I said I think it's pure (town)

I can go through these but like tldr is that worst, fua, and you seem townie. Andres I feel least confident on being town on this wagon but I think scum!Andres has means and motive to push me through here which he hasn't done (in fact he's done the opposite)

[Dwlee99]

What is the other interpretation you think I should have had?

[Dwlee99]

I don't see any other interpretation or why that would even be alignment indicative

[Dwlee99]

i have a hard time believing dwlee actually scumreads uglyducks. the wagon analysis is not my favorite either. i feel like there's just a bit too much focus on how much they are frustrated as opposed to content. in general, the reasons to vote people aren't going to be that good. votes are just ways to express that we agree with a certain thought. nothing more nothing less.

dwlee seems to flip between frustrated/ateing and extremely towny solving from these last couple posts and i feel like it's sort of the panic of a player who is struggling to figure out which scum tactic they should use. i might be thinking too much but im willing to mislim town on day one because i think this flip gives good information anyways. the worse case scenario is just a pr out and that sucks but we'll still be fine honestly.

I also think this post makes no sense coming from a town!azaariah perspective where uglyduck is an option and hasn't been mentioned as a townread. No one on my wagon can justify an uglyduck townread, and no one on my wagon can justify a higher scumread on me than on Uglyduck except maybe Natalya but I've been over that

[Dwlee99]

"hard time believing I scumread duck" -> why? Uglyduck has 13 posts, none of which have been townie

"Wagon analysis not my favorite either" -> admitted to only reading the section on themself, so this was a lie

"Too much focus on frustration over content" -> again, didn't actually read the content I've generated, just saw me use the word frustrated a couple of times

Thinking I'm panicking so scum -> Panicking isn't a scum tell when pressured, it's literally why people apply pressure - to make them feel like they have to make content

"Willing to mislim town etc. etc." -> no justification for why they feel comfortable doing this with me but not uglyduck. Notice a complete lack of direct mention to uglyduck except they don't think I actually scumread him, and it's all an implicit defense

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Scorp
claim please

Hot take; I actually don’t think this is alignment indicative for Dwlee. From my experience with Scum Dwlee he tends to be a lot more self-aware and composed, and putting someone up to E-1 halfway through D1 with the intent of making them claim is kind of a normal Dwlee thing to do. Not saying he’s town— just that this doesn’t say a lot about his alignment at all.

Personally, I actually think that T3 comes off looking worse for his Scorpious vote since it’s just echoing what’s been said multiple times before and is kind of just… basic surface level commentary? I wanna hear some other opinions on this take first, though.

I'm so far in your pocket rn holy crap
VOTE: T3

did you vote T3 because you thought fua had a point here?

Sorta yea, not a strong one but something

[Dwlee99]

Reminds me of a game (uRoll specifically) where I thought someone was scum day one, Loftwing hard pushed me cause my justification was "too weak" and then I got the lim and they flipped mafia

could you be more specific about this chain of events you're describing

Spoiler:

VOTE: Regrider
Why would "waste your fudge roll" even be a reason to scumread someone

He said something that made no sense now I vote

Okay now you seem caught so I'm staying with you

Regrider EVIL

Please elaborate on this.

What is there to elaborate on

Why do you think they are evil? Please provide evidence as well.

VOTE: Regrider
Why would "waste your fudge roll" even be a reason to scumread someone

He said something that made no sense now I vote

Okay now you seem caught so I'm staying with you

Why do they seem caught to you? Why can't this be more Wrong-Town behaviour?
C'mon Dweelee, don't make me pull the answers out of you.

He said something that made no sense now I vote

I'm confused with your grievance.

Like, please tell me what I said doesn't make sense, I'm serious. Enchant just straight up said he walked into the game wanting to be scum.

Caught

He said something that made no sense now I vote

I'm confused with your grievance.

Like, please tell me what I said doesn't make sense, I'm serious. Enchant just straight up said he walked into the game wanting to be scum.

Caught

I don't see it. Can you explain how this is caught scum?

He said something that made no sense now I vote

I'm confused with your grievance.

Like, please tell me what I said doesn't make sense, I'm serious. Enchant just straight up said he walked into the game wanting to be scum.

Caught

I don't see it. Can you explain how this is caught scum?

His reaction indicates to me he thinks he doesn't deserve to be caught yet did anyway

He said something that made no sense now I vote

I'm confused with your grievance.

Like, please tell me what I said doesn't make sense, I'm serious. Enchant just straight up said he walked into the game wanting to be scum.

Caught

I don't see it. Can you explain how this is caught scum?

His reaction indicates to me he thinks he doesn't deserve to be caught yet did anyway

To me, it seems more like someone who's trying to understand why they are being scumread. I can get behind that, it's always a good idea to learn why players scumread other players, and other players include yourself. It's not some sort of ploy to try changing their actions to be less scumread, it's genuinely trying to understand why you think the way you do. If they did want to shift their actions to be more townread as scum, they would either ask you point blank (like they are doing here), or get someone else on their team to ask on their behalf.

In short, I don't see why you see them as any more caught than someone asking another why they scumread a particular player.

Not at all. I thought the reader would understand that the last part assumes that they are scum, because otherwise they would be Town wanting to be Townread, which I've been told is a naughty no-no thing for town to want.

It's the tone my guy

Also we have nothing else to go off of rn

I don't think that they are tonally scummy there. It just seems like a frustrated townie being scumread for bad reasons.

We will see when someone hammers

Cool.

Meh, if anyone deserves to be at E-1, it should be Dweelee. That might put a flame under their ass to participate more. Seriously, look at their ISO and tell me that you think that player isn't hiding something.

I hide nothing except for the things I hide

In the very last game I was in with you, you were way more active than this on Day 1. Why aren't you doing anything?

Seriously, compare Town Dweelee to Dweelee here.
Sure, Dweelee ended the game as scum here, but they started out as Town, and were far more active than they are now.

Playerlist affects this

Also meta bad

I was also less active in the neighborhood so

You can't meta your way out of being inactive and evasive. And you were still much more active in that game than in this one.

Also, how is the playerlist affecting your ability to interact with the game? Are you not having fun? Are you secretly on V/LA but don't want to say it? Why are you being so quiet and disconnected?

I'm not having fun no

Loft I wouldn't push dw he could hammer you.

I don't care. If anything, that would just it more obvious that Dweelee is probably scum.

VOTE: Dwlee99

Yeah, wagon that I agree with!

It's the tone my guy

Also we have nothing else to go off of rn

This feels like an excuse rather than a reason tbh
What about VOTE: Dwlee
Getting big vibes here

How is "it's the tone" an excuse

Reg's posts were icky in response to my push. There's hardly any content from most people. It's the best reason I have right now. You should know better than this BS Kyo

Now i want vote Loftwing instead. Why you didn't vote early if you disagree?

I always did want to vote Dweelee for coasting this game, but I wanted to confirm my suspicions by waiting to see if Dweelee would do anything. Unfortunately, I am not good at wagon building when there are already 2 major wagons present in the game, so I decided to abandon that and vote RegRider instead, lending support for that one.

I disagree completely with reading into Dwlee's activity as AI and meta'ing them across games is nearly worthless. Actually I'd expect probably more game driving from scum!Dwlee

Game driving is

quite literally

what town!Dweelee does.

Telling you to vote Regrider

is

game driving

Can I still hammer you

I can't, disappointing

(I also don't always game drive as town but)

Telling you to vote Regrider

is

game driving

(I also don't always game drive as town but)

This seems like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Are you game driving as town, or are you not game driving as town?

Telling you to vote Regrider

is

game driving

(I also don't always game drive as town but)

This seems like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Are you game driving as town, or are you not game driving as town?

I do both. I don't have a static meta as either alignment. It completely depends on playerlist, my role, the vibes in the game, what has happened, etc

And I don't get why you can't tell that distinction

As in, between me saying I'm doing light game driving here but that I also don't always do that

Here's a question for @Loftwing. What are you reads right now, and can you please explain them?

Besides Dweelee (who it should be clear why I scumread), here are my current reads:

Bingle is probably town here, mainly considering their response to us claiming dice rolls. In retrospect, their gamebreaking strategy would probably come from a town player, and I was just angry at them for coming up with an unfun strat.

Cyrus seems to have the feeling of being generally incorrect but sincere. I think they go into the townbin.

Mama Ru seems generally absent and isn't hitting most of the town marks I would expect from a player. scumlean there.

Mostly everyone else goes in the nullbin. They haven't shown up on my radar yet.

Telling you to vote Regrider

is

game driving

(I also don't always game drive as town but)

This seems like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Are you game driving as town, or are you not game driving as town?

I do both. I don't have a static meta as either alignment. It completely depends on playerlist, my role, the vibes in the game, what has happened, etc

Well no shit meta isn't static. Of course it's impacted by outside influences. But that doesn't mean that your play dramatically changes between games, as if your account trades hands every time you sign up for a new game. There is some invariance there, and that is what meta captures. What is invariant between games?

You're not just scum because lolmeta, you're scum because you are being absent from the game, something which not only would benefit a scum player, but also doesn't fit into your meta.

I have more posts than 9/12 of the other players. How tf am I absent here

But yea my playstyle changes on a lot of things and sometimes even just my mood when I first post that sets the tone for the rest of the game. You don't know me, I have tons of games with different posting and activity styles and levels of engagement.

Like here game is totally dead, I want a Regrider flip, we go into night and then come back tomorrow. That's what's going to help us here the most

I have more posts than 9/12 of the other players. How tf am I absent here

You haven't intentionally gotten into the thick of an argument, you haven't been calling out things that you disagree with, you haven't tried playing the game until I dragged your unwilling ass into it.

Also, you like to airate your posts, shooting out short disconnected ideas, which would boost up your post count without actually having more substance than most players.

What arguments? All I've seen is boring mech discussion and Cyrus being Cyrus. Closest thing otherwise to an argument is explaining why a low poster who reacted badly to a simple push is likely to be scum and you thinking I'm scum for not having an essay level read on someone with 13 posts

And funny enough, you gave me the same crap last time we played

.

Secondly, VOTE: Dwlee
I'm sure you're a perfectly healthy and mentally stable player, so why are you seemingly unwilling to give a reasonable response to Wake, rather than playing this weird "I'm not touching you" style game?

That I'm not being reasonable enough or giving enough reasons. And I was town and we ended up hard stomping scum in that game with my help.

So maybe this method of reading me based on me not having super deep reasons to scumread someone (with 13 posts btw) isn't effective?

Regrider please instead

What arguments? All I've seen is boring mech discussion and Cyrus being Cyrus. Closest thing otherwise to an argument is explaining why a low poster who reacted badly to a simple push is likely to be scum and you thinking I'm scum for not having an essay level read on someone with 13 posts

I'm not expecting you to have omniscience of the game. I'm expecting you to put your thoughts out there into the game more than you have been. You've basically said nothing this entire game, and are now getting defensive that you've said nothing this entire game.

And funny enough, you gave me the same crap last time we played

.

Secondly, VOTE: Dwlee
I'm sure you're a perfectly healthy and mentally stable player, so why are you seemingly unwilling to give a reasonable response to Wake, rather than playing this weird "I'm not touching you" style game?

That I'm not being reasonable enough or giving enough reasons. And I was town and we ended up hard stomping scum in that game with my help.

So maybe this method of reading me based on me not having super deep reasons to scumread someone (with 13 posts btw) isn't effective?

As above, I'm not expecting you to have a deep read on someone. However, I would expect you to have it if you wanted them dead (which you very clearly seem to do). It is not my fault that you've shown that you want a player with 13 posts dead despite not having many good reasons for wanting them dead.

Loftwing I've explained the reasons. Idk what more you expect from me on a player with that little content

Also you're scumreading me for the exact same reason you scumread me last time and you just completely ignored that

Spoiler:

644 isn't a question my guy

On the contrary, it doesn't have to be.

It's an observation: something pointed out.

I would appreciate your feedback.

Dwlee, why are you being so cagey?

Almost all your posts are one-liners and you're barely playing the game.

Where are you

in this game right now?

VOTE: Dwlee99

Wake if you clicked the ISO button you would have seen that I've given a poe. If you wanna ask about that, go for it, but I'm not answering to give "insight on how it's going over there" when I already gave a poe I'm working from

Wake if you clicked the ISO button you would have seen that I've given a poe. If you wanna ask about that, go for it, but I'm not answering to give "insight on how it's going over there" when I already gave a poe I'm working from

Dude, all you did was list right players and then post "poe."

Okay, do you have a problem with a certain player on/off my list? What do you want to know?

I want to know why you're being so cagey, ignoring my questions and observations, and making it feel like you're sparing no excuse to not engage with anyone.

I feel like you're holding back and to be frank with you it's a red flag to me.

What questions haven't I answered? I don't think there are any

Oh, and before you say it: idc is an answer to a question

Your posts are only bare-bone to me. WHERE is your reasons for having them there? WHY do you keep just posting real brief sentences? I want to know why YOU are keeping it so brief and cagey. I feel like you're holding back, and it's tripping my gut.

To your other stuff: Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick

Oh, and before you say it: idc is an answer to a question

Bullshit.

You can't just say "idc" whenever people are asking you questions, bucko.

Oh, and before you say it: idc is an answer to a question

Bullshit.

You can't just say "idc" whenever people are asking you questions, bucko.

This post is bait

Wake I've given you very clear terms for how you can learn more about my reads. I'm pretty much a permamobile poster so I'm not going to go through every thought I've had that game because 1. I'm lazy 2. That's boring and 3. It's unhelpful. I do respond to almost everything at me and sometimes to things that just have my name in there.

Secondly, VOTE: Dwlee
I'm sure you're a perfectly healthy and mentally stable player, so why are you seemingly unwilling to give a reasonable response to Wake, rather than playing this weird "I'm not touching you" style game?

Wake is asking that you interact with him while you're here and ready to give responses, but instead of doing that, you instead say something like "What? No! I did do stuffs, like this poe! You have a problem with it?" And then when questioned about why the players who are there are, well, there, you say "You got a problem with any specific player m8?" which is irrelevant to what he was asking you.

Read this sequence and tell me it's not the exact same thing again

Also you're scumreading me for the exact same reason you scumread me last time and you just completely ignored that

No, it is not the same reason.

Firstly, sorry for misgendering you in one of my last posts, Dwlee.

Secondly, VOTE: Dwlee
I'm sure you're a perfectly healthy and mentally stable player, so why are you seemingly unwilling to give a reasonable response to Wake, rather than playing this weird "I'm not touching you" style game?

Wake is asking that you interact with him while you're here and ready to give responses, but instead of doing that, you instead say something like "What? No! I did do stuffs, like this poe! You have a problem with it?" And then when questioned about why the players who are there are, well, there, you say "You got a problem with any specific player m8?" which is irrelevant to what he was asking you.

If you brought up the full post, it would be clear that it is not the same reason. You're doing a Bait and switch with "You aren't playing the game unless people force you to" and "You refuse to answer questions about your play", which are clearly not the same argument.

[Man, this post is far to long to quote]
Read this sequence and tell me it's not the exact same thing again

This is irrelevant. I wasn't scumreading you for that. Maybe re-read the very post that you quoted as an example.

Your reasoning here is that I am not giving enough reasons for stuff and you want me to dump my entire brain

That's the same exact thing wake was saying and that you latched onto

Reasonable response. To his questions going "Give me reasons for all of your reads!!" to which I said "ask me about a specific one." And now you're pushing me because you had to ask for me to explain my reads. Literally the same

That game:

Wake: dwlee explain your reads
Me: which one
Wake: the reads
Me: no

Loftwing: scum detected!

This game:
Loftwing: why won't you explain your read on Regrider
Me: here's my reasoning
Loftwing: need more reasoning
Me: no

Loftwing: scum caught!!

Dude if you're town your sorting method is awful

If you want to read more of this then just multi-iso Loftwing and I

Tldr: I scumread regrider on a couple of posts, loftwing said I didn't have enough ~reasoning~ so I was scum, loftwing big egg on face cause regrider WAS scum and I was town and also solved correctly for the last scum later

[Dwlee99]

Ah spoiler broke somewhere in there, unlucky

Luckily it wasn't earlier cause there's a LOT of quotes in there

[Dwlee99]

"hard time believing I scumread duck" -> why? Uglyduck has 13 posts, none of which have been townie

Also: there are 4 other people voting Uglyduck too, and we can't all be scum? Hello?

[Dwlee99]

I think scum!Andres has means and motive to push me through here which he hasn't done

why

I have played with him many times

[Dwlee99]

You know how I feel about the m word

But seriously not meta, Andres hasn't rolled scum against the me before unless here, but I just think he knows I'm capable and would want me dead if given the opportunity

[Dwlee99]

Reading someone based on their similarities to their past games as certain alignments

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Aza
Well this is interesting

[Dwlee99]

I'm still pro-Dwlee.

[Dwlee99]

I'm actually starting to consider the possibility of scum doctor hmm

[Dwlee99]

Anyway, Oman be mighty suspicious

[Dwlee99]

It's also that there was no reason to have your vote on me over uglyduck there according to the way you posted. And I think it is scummy to scumread me right now, yea

[Dwlee99]

Omgus, entirely. Unless you've got reasons to be suspicious of me besides "you agreed with me once and won't unvote me!"

Spoiler: Omgus, entirely

I'm pretty frustrated with 782 if oman is town, which is where I was leaning before it was made. Has no reason to townread Uglyduck, and in fact has reasons to scumread him. Has reasons to townread me (I mean I'm assuming that's why you'd mention a mini mindmeld?)

Places UD vote on me as has feelings depending on my flip.

I see he wants to switch UD if we are still in this position but like... all signs point that he should be switching now, not later, right? If UD's vote is scum-indicative on my town flip, and I'm just probabilistically more likey to be town than scum AND there are reasons to townread me / scumread Uglyduck it just doesn't make sense for him to position like this imo

Like I just get this overwhelming vibe of incongruency between thought and action, ESPECIALLY on a Uglyduck red flip, and this is where I'd go tomorrow if UD is red

Oman: see my post on their post. Keeping the vote on me makes no sense with that post, and yes this is partly preflip with Uglyduck but that post was bad bad bad.

[Dwlee99]

I'm not on UD either yknow

[Dwlee99]

782 contains no reasons to scumread me. Actually, now that I'm looking for it, you haven't expressed any reason to scumread me. Your entire progression is voting me as a counter to scorp and what seems like a "generate pressure" kinda reason, then it's you saying you still are happy with your vote, then the next thing is 782 where you're suddenly saying you were happy to see my wagon through to an elimination (as a juxtaposition to something that you thought was slightly townie)

[Dwlee99]

Spoiler: Oman progression

Like, at D1 let's not be scared of -1/-2. Its a tool that generates responses and we've seen some. It's good. Natalya walking away from the ledge is a solid town play if Scorp is (per my belief) town. That's really valuable to me and to the team as a whole.

Is a good place to be. I'm heading to sleep but hopefully we point this in an actual good direction before I wake up and hold this momentum.

I don't know if this E-1 or 2 or whatever it was vote leads to Dwleescum but it's a) a better wagon than Scorp, and b) I'm here to find out.

VOTE: Dwlee99

In terms of vote, I'm happy to leave it on Dwlee for now as 2nd biggest wagon. I don't have a read on T3 yet, so I'm not happy to switch over to the highest rn. I'll prioritise reading T3 if I get a chance.

UglyDuck just spent like 9 days preparing completely lukewarm recycled reads and I'm kind of surprised that's not getting as much attention as I'd hoped?

VOTE: UglyDuck this isn't for pressure I think he's fairly likely to actually flip red

This was actually a bit eye-opening for me. I didn't see it the first time, but after this priming I actually don't love UglyDuck's "lukewarm recycled reads" at all. V big flag for me. I don't think that sells the worst as town for me (bussing exists), but it's a good one.

UglyDuck just spent like 9 days preparing completely lukewarm recycled reads and I'm kind of surprised that's not getting as much attention as I'd hoped?

VOTE: UglyDuck this isn't for pressure I think he's fairly likely to actually flip red

VOTE: Uglyduck

Actually yea

This is a good point

This was almost entirely my reaction, in tone and vibe. Which frustrates me as someone who has been happy to vote Dwlee and explicitly see it through to elim.

@UglyDuck:

I looked over your reads list, who do you actually suspect right now?

DW is my top at this point. forgot to...

VOTE: DW

Flagging this as my feelings on it depend almost entirely on Dwlee's flip.

I feel like my suspicion of fua this game has been because every reason they've jumped on for voting people has been so

basic

but I recognze that not everyone thinks the same way I do, probably a big difference in playstyles here?

I don't like this because of how noncomittally it splits the difference. I have *such* a nullread on Retti coming into this post, and it's the kind of post where I can see scum using this to sprinkle a post that they can point back to later, without actually committing to anything.

...this game is going to give me a migraine

Mood.

For example...

I tr you off the vote thing, idk what any of the recent stuff is about

didn't read it

lol

lol indeed :/

They are not actively solving, they seem to be moving their vote from wagon to wagon based on who is easiest to kill/where the momentum is moving.

the progression from sheeping T3 by putting Scorp at E-1 and then voting T3 for T3's vote/push on Scorp is particularly egregious in terms of not making any sense.

They then moved off T3 before T3 even responded to vote for UglyDuck.

I don't hate a T3/Dwlee scumpair right now!

I am in the game!

For real though?

Egix96 is being replaced due to inactivity.

Ugh. D1 is gonna be a bit of a mess. Hopefully we got enough from egix and hoooopefully we get enough from Gamme to work something after the two flips between here and D2.

Let me check the current votecount and then put myself somewhere effective/stay here. I'm pretty sure Dwlee is e-2. Didn't claim when they said they were at e-1 (mistakenly), so I don't expect to hear a claim that moves my vote. But I just want to check where Ugly is.

[Dwlee99]

If ugly is scum (I know, I know) then the bottom of 782 feels like a telegraphed "I'll have uglyduck claim, then when they say doctor I guess I'll have no choice but to vote dwlee"

[Dwlee99]

You still have no stated reason to scumread me. This seems extremely fake

[Dwlee99]

We also have two days left in the deadline and you're acting like there's no time to eliminate anyone but me

[Dwlee99]

If ugly is scum (I know, I know) then the bottom of 782 feels like a telegraphed "I'll have uglyduck claim, then when they say doctor I guess I'll have no choice but to vote dwlee"

I mean that's usually how it goes when people claim doctor Claims are claims D1, that's just basic game play.

But I actually have given options other than you to which I'd happily and not-so-happily commit. I just think you're the best option rn.

WHY

[Dwlee99]

You still have no stated reason to scumread me. This seems extremely fake

UUUUUGH. Fine. I'm not taking the bait any more. I've put my thoughts out, I've put my votes down. I've made my moves. You don't like them, you think it's fake, whatever mate. I've tried. You don't wanna believe me, you don't gotta.

No you haven't??? Wtf

[Dwlee99]

The bait to explain your scumread? LOL

[Dwlee99]

Also holy perspective slip, batman

[Dwlee99]

I just obvtowned for multiple pages, yea I'm gonna be pissed if people think I'm still scum after that

[Dwlee99]

Yea I'm volatile, yea I'm OMGUSy, these are literally just how I play. Gamma will recall me reacting like this to her randomly calling me scum late in Slaughter House (oh and he was scum there!) so it's not like I have no basis for this. If I think your reasons are bullshit, I will think you're scum. It's pretty simple. I think you're either scum or being extremely selective in what you're reading and thinking about to think I'm scum here, and I want your read on Aza ASAP

[Dwlee99]

And you simultaneously acknowledge that it's valid for me to react like this when YOU HADN'T STATED REASONS but then saying that me reacting like this is scummy. Which is it?

[Dwlee99]

Gamma will recall me reacting like this to her

Spoiler: if anyone wants to read this

Strong TRs: (GE, peta, Taly)
Weak TRs: (skitter, Ggy)
In flux: (ydrasse, ulyana)
Weak SRs: (cakez, HQ)
Strong SRs: (dwlee, gypyx, toog)

This is where my reads are basically at atp. Up until just recently cakez and gypyx were switched, but I'm heeding peta a little bit on cakez and I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

if we wanna do most to least towny for the crossing, basically just flip this order

there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers

go into it?

I don't like how he went through events 3 and 4 pretty much at all
I'm also worried about how his reads sound, it's a case of "seems logical but not in a definitively town sense", which I had towards cephrir in Radio Buzz
there's another slot I'm of that opinion towards in this game as well somewhat, but I'm more willing to trust that person than I am cakez

Yea gamma you're gonna have to explain how I'm evil here, especially with fucking toog

I rushed through the Dunn Toog duel and you think I'm scum with them okay. And that I left Harley in the bottom four until ydrasse really wanted them up cause ???

Wow I'm actually reconsidering my townread of gamma. Thought I'd Dave the paranoia for later but that list is awful

Yea gamma you're gonna have to explain how I'm evil here, especially with fucking toog

You consistently had Toog+Cakez in your lower tiers until you reconsidered post-infinity flip, after which they seem to be middle of the pack, and interestingly you’re more okay with leaving out peta who ranks more towny for you than either of those two than you are with leaving one of those two out.
I looked over those scumgames and it seems you have a bit of a history of half-hearted or late-stage bussing. That tracks with your supposed progression on Toog+Cakez.

ulyana
Ydrasse
SirCakez
Infinity 324
Toogeloo
Dunnstral

Here's a list of people I'd be cool shooting each other today. I vaguely remember townreading the other people the last time I was actually thinking about the game, but I don't feel super confident in this poe.

Or here where I'd be putting toog/Dunn/Cakez in here

Yea gamma you're gonna have to explain how I'm evil here, especially with fucking toog

You consistently had Toog+Cakez in your lower tiers until you reconsidered post-infinity flip, after which they seem to be middle of the pack, and interestingly you’re more okay with leaving out peta who ranks more towny for you than either of those two than you are with leaving one of those two out.
I looked over those scumgames and it seems you have a bit of a history of half-hearted or late-stage bussing. That tracks with your supposed progression on Toog+Cakez.

Cakez has been high up since the Dunn flip wtf

That doesn’t track with him being higher on your crossing list then

Yeah it's called I reevaluated after Dunn flip so I have had cakez higher since then

I initially was thinking the team was explicitly you/Cakez/Toog but there’s still room for either of those to be town, meanwhile you’re definitely scum because your list for this event is straight up wack

Oh you mean how he is lower in the 8? That's cause it was based entirely on this day phase

I initially was thinking the team was explicitly you/Cakez/Toog but there’s still room for either of those to be town, meanwhile you’re definitely scum because your list for this event is straight up wack

Choke on my town flip

I'll be okay being left out of the crossing only if gamma is with me so I can tell at him in dead thread for this BS

I get mindfucked so hard everytime someone suggests that they get left behind.

Only if gamma is. I'm not watching from dead thread without him there

Oh you mean how he is lower in the 8? That's cause it was based entirely on this day phase

Yeah, this is bullshit
You didn’t actually “reconsider” shit

I'll be okay being left out of the crossing only if gamma is with me so I can tell at him in dead thread for this BS

That sort of thing is very common of them in most games
And I very much don’t believe it was a real thought you had

Oh you mean how he is lower in the 8? That's cause it was based entirely on this day phase

Yeah, this is bullshit
You didn’t actually “reconsider” shit

What do you call rereading the start of this day phase? You want me to quote the posts that made me townbin people when I was reading to prove I actually read or something? You think I just randomly spat out a list with my scum buddies crossing and town at the bottom? You think I'm shit enough at scum I wouldn't even fake having reasons for any of my reads?

I'll be okay being left out of the crossing only if gamma is with me so I can tell at him in dead thread for this BS

That sort of thing is very common of them in most games
And I very much don’t believe it was a real thought you had

Idek what you're even talking about here

Only rereading this one half-done phase is not “reconsidering”
And you made this big stink about “oh I need to clear these pre-conceived notions”, normally that’s tied to a full re-read of the game, not “I just wanna think about this phase with a fresh mind”.

I have never reread a whole game lmao

[Dwlee99]

I was a bit unfair to Natalya, I'll say that. I realized something that makes me understand where they were coming from more, even though they're still wrong. For you and Aza, I'm extremely justified in reacting like this because you had no reasons and same for Aza. Aza is still talking about me interpreting Natalya the one way I think it's possible to do so, and I just don't think that's still a legit read. After how much content I posted, too, I just don't buy it. Your pattern then is two justified and one misunderstanding between Natalya and I, so no it isn't scummy

[Dwlee99]

RE: you. Didn't you yell at Nat for doing meta reads and now you're defending yourself by saying 'that's just how I play'?

Playstyle isn't meta ffs

[Dwlee99]

you also never obvtowned. You really need to be more realistic with yourself here. If you're scum and you think you are so squeaky clean, or you're town and you think you're above reproach: You're wrong. Again, alignment aside, you really have to come to terms with how this game works, and the fact that *someone somwhere* is going to think you're scum and you can't just chuck a fit about that. To be clear: I think you're scum here. But to be also clear: I think it's a really shitty way to scumhunt if you are town.

This is extremely condescending. I think I know how the game works. I have over 100 games on site and many off. I am a double survivor at this point. My reads rate isn't 100%, and sometimes it takes me a while to come to the right conclusion, but there's clearly method to what I do cause I've caught scum with it. Have I tunneled town? Yea, but sometimes even that has helped me in the long run to figure out the game

[Dwlee99]

I legit hope you're scum. If after as much mafia as you've played you honestly believe yourself to be beyond any suspicion I'm fuckin' FLABBERGASTED.

This just isn't a good faith interpretation of what I said. AZA STILL THINKS I'M SCUM FOR CORRECTLY INTERPRETING A POST LIKE 15 PAGES AGO

My point there is that I have PLENTY of content for Aza to make a read off of. They don't have to grasp at straws to form an opinion on me, and yet they still are. Why do you think that is?

[Dwlee99]

I disagree entirely, and I think you know that. I think you're grasping here.

You can find me saying this across any game it comes up this year. Fine, you want to call it meta? Whatever, not the meta I take issue with then. I don't think it is meta to know to ignore Not mafia posting that clod pod jester post, if you think it is have fun with that

[Dwlee99]

Goodnight

I'm gonna take a break from posting unless people ask me questions. I'll be around to answer stuff for around two hours and then I'll be busy for a bunch of the day, but then probably around more nighttime of EST

[Dwlee99]

Sorry this is too funny

Spoiler: me when anyone scumreads me

[Dwlee99]

I can't help myself

Last time this conversation happened I said this

Look if someone hammered there without claim that's basically a scum claim so I'm really not pressed about it, no matter how you feel about putting someone at e-1

It’s weird though that your first real anything is to put someone on e-1.

But, I don’t think scum would be so obvious.

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

"I don't think scum would be obvious"

"dwlee-scum" (aka dwlee as scum, cause hyphen) "really is that obvious"

Dwlee as scum is obvious

how else do you read this

I don't think you responded to it. The context behind what Natalya was saying was a response to Scorpious. It's right there. I again don't think you're reading because you are still pushing this as a thing that can have multiple interpretations when as a response to Scorpious it has a clear and obvious meaning, and you're also still basing your read on me off this and not any of the actual content I've made. I would have interpreted the post the same way if I were scum because it's the way the post was intended

[Dwlee99]

in general, the reasons to vote people aren't going to be that good. votes are just ways to express that we agree with a certain thought. nothing more nothing less.

i want to say the emotion is getting to me because i feel for it very much but i dont want to let go of another read that im confident in. i will read up i swear. just not right now.

I think this is incongruent

[Dwlee99]

Retti is ultra mega town right now.

I can't say I agree on getting t3 over aza first though. I will also say that I had the same thought about gamma but didn't out it and am very glad because it means I now feel super sure of town!retti

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: T3

I wonder if we’ll actually get some traction on this or if it’ll magically disappear again.

catching up

Eh this was 4 hours ago now maybe t3 is a good flip

[Dwlee99]

fua/DW - lots of games together, yes?

Uhh two?

I will not be having a 40 post conversation back and forth with you, so please just answer (no offense intended, love playing with you)
I think you are town. If I am right, this is good info.
How do you feel about the make up of this wagon as of now?

If I assume you're town your wagon probably isn't pure but like... Idk who I scumread on it. Andres could be if you're town cause my townread on him was kinda based on him not pushing me through as counter to scum. Maybe I gave worstie too much town cred?

Also I'm not going to need to have a back and forth with you to answer a simple question

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: t3
"I don't think doctor exists" isn't a catch-up

[Dwlee99]

Intent to hammer aza

[Dwlee99]

This is turning out to be harder than I expected.

@DW, what do you make of theworst in this game? And if you’ve already commented there, just point me to the post.

I had town pings but I forget why

[Dwlee99]

I’m almost completely certain that the T3 wagon is pure, and that’s where I’d prefer to go right now, but I’m willing to hold off on that and trust Andante and UD’s read on Azaariah since I agree with most of the case on them.

Also ftr aza being scum was my read first

[Dwlee99]

Like okay they're FOSing 3 people who are all on their wagon which is never actually true but I feel like that's more likely to come from town with bruised ego than anything else

Oh before someone asks: yes

(The question I answered was: "would all scum be on the same wagon?")

[Dwlee99]

Natalya can totes be scum now I think. Came back just to be like "dwlee is mafia" and nothing else?

[Dwlee99]

New hero solve: t3, Natalya, azaariah

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: azaariah

[Dwlee99]

We get it you think I'm scum still

[Dwlee99]

And "scummy hammer" nope

[Dwlee99]

I am

[Dwlee99]

We get it you think I'm scum still

this is a weird thought from you if you think I am mafia.

I don't think it is a weird post but okay

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: t3
I hammered cause I didn't want a repeat of last mini normal where we hopped around like hell before deadline on a VT claim I think is scum

[Dwlee99]

If I were a vig I would vig you tonight

[Dwlee99]

Unless I'm partnered with t3 there isn't scum motivation in hammering there so f off

[Dwlee99]

The votes weren't moving to me. I'm not that idiotic about game state

[Dwlee99]

If I were a vig I would vig you tonight

If I was a vig I would've vig'd you last night

Good thing you aren't one : )

[Dwlee99]

Btw t3 is actually probably just scum here given the disappearance and lack of catch-up so if you're town and want to actually kill scum get t3

[Dwlee99]

That'd be more fun for the both of us for sure

[Dwlee99]

I think an argument against Dwlee scum is that scum wouldn’t openly brag about starting a wagon on someone that they know for sure is town? That’s only one point, though, so I’m not sure.

Dwlee— why would hammering instead of letting people react benefit town at all? I feel like scum motivation behind that would be trying to stop further discussion and prevent votes from moving off of the mislim.

If it wasn't aza it would go to t3. If t3 is town then I wouldn't as scum because I'd get a claim out of t3. If t3 is scum the scum motivation would prevent the wagon moving from there

[Dwlee99]

That'd be more fun for the both of us for sure

this is tmi-ing me as town

i don't know how much more obvious it can be that dwlee is mafia

also I'm pretty sure andante is also mafia

That isn't TMIing you town

[Dwlee99]

Andante still town because scum doesn't go that hard burying a LHF when they don't need to

Still think dwlee is prob town but slightly more annoyed there so am on edge

<3

[Dwlee99]

Retti why is scorp low

[Dwlee99]

I think an argument against Dwlee scum is that scum wouldn’t openly brag about starting a wagon on someone that they know for sure is town? That’s only one point, though, so I’m not sure.

Dwlee— why would hammering instead of letting people react benefit town at all? I feel like scum motivation behind that would be trying to stop further discussion and prevent votes from moving off of the mislim.

If it wasn't aza it would go to t3. If t3 is town then I wouldn't as scum because I'd get a claim out of t3. If t3 is scum the scum motivation would prevent the wagon moving from there

That’s a fallacious argument. If T3 is town it would still be a motivation for a scum to hammer Azaria before the votes can move off of them. If Azaria survives and becomes townread, that would narrow down the limpool and create a more difficult path towards the scum win condition.

If t3 is town and people move and hammer him over aza, then aza would for sure remain in the lim pool

[Dwlee99]

Tbh natalya I'm confused why more people aren't pushing me. Like, maybe you're scum and your buddies don't want to align with you too hard like that?

[Dwlee99]

Spoiler: vote counts

Votecount 1.7

T3(4)

~ Andante(119), fua(51), Dwlee99(31), the worst(66)

Dwlee99(3)

~ Natalya(55), Oman(17), Azaariah(23)

Scorpious(2)

~ Egix96(9), T3(37)

UglyDuck(1)

~ Andresvmb(5)

the worst(1)

~ Retti(53)

Egix96(1)

~ Scorpious(65)

Andresvmb(1)

~ UglyDuck(6)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

MOD REMINDERS

Multi-mod ISO: viewtopic.php?t=88352&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

FLAVOR

muffindoggo

Votecount 1.8

UglyDuck(5)

~ Andresvmb(5), the worst(69), Dwlee99(43), fua(60), Scorpious(72)

Dwlee99(3)

~ Natalya(60), Oman(19), Azaariah(27)

Scorpious(2)

~ Egix96(9), T3(38)

T3(1)

~ Andante(119)

Andresvmb(1)

~ UglyDuck(6)


Not Voting (1): Retti(57)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

MOD REMINDERS

Multi-mod ISO: viewtopic.php?t=88352&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

FLAVOR

Erwin

Votecount 1.9

UglyDuck(5)

~ Andresvmb(10), the worst(74), Dwlee99(100), fua(66), Scorpious(86)

Dwlee99(5)

~ Natalya(85), Oman(19), Azaariah(27), UglyDuck(11), T3(45)

T3(2)

~ Andante(138), Retti(79)

Scorpious(1)

~ Egix96(9)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

MOD REMINDERS

Multi-mod ISO: viewtopic.php?t=88352&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

FLAVOR

Frank

Votecount 1.10

Dwlee99(4)

~ Oman(39), Natalya(85), Azaariah(38), T3(45)

UglyDuck(3)

~ Andresvmb(10), Scorpious(88), Gamma Emerald(18)

T3(3)

~ Andante(138), Retti(97), the worst(79)

Azaariah(2)

~ UglyDuck(18), Dwlee99(158)


Not Voting (1): fua(76)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

MOD REMINDERS

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FLAVOR

Durger

Votecount 1.11

T3(4)

~ Retti(101), the worst(81), fua(80), Dwlee99(162)

Dwlee99(4)

~ Oman(39), Natalya(88), Azaariah(38), T3(47)

Azaariah(4)

~ UglyDuck(31), Gamma Emerald(23), Andresvmb(18), Andante(142)

UglyDuck(1)

~ Scorpious(89)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

MOD REMINDERS

Multi-mod ISO: viewtopic.php?t=88352&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

FLAVOR

Foxger

Votecount 1.Eliminate

Azaariah(7)

~ UglyDuck(31), Gamma Emerald(23), Andresvmb(18), Andante(142), Scorpious(91), fua(83), Dwlee99(168) -- HAMMER

Dwlee99(4)

~ Oman(39), Natalya(93), Azaariah(39), T3(47)

T3(2)

~ Retti(101), the worst(81)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-21 15:28:22)

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Multi-mod ISO: viewtopic.php?t=88352&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

FLAVOR

Delilah

Looking at these vote counts... some people just hella sticky to me. Only uglyduck moved off of me in this entire sequence which spanned 4 days. I'm also pretty sure no one else in the game voted and unvoted me in between vote counts. That feels weird to me

[Dwlee99]

okay t3 scum claim let's go

[Dwlee99]

i want dwlee dead
i think they're scum
i think natalya is town

the way they keep brushing off my slot seems like scum trying to act too natural

You ever do that catchup?

[Dwlee99]

Look if someone hammered there without claim that's basically a scum claim so I'm really not pressed about it, no matter how you feel about putting someone at e-1

This is interesting..

Azaariah did claim though.

Did, but no claim was ever going to stop it.

I mean if aza claimed pr I would have stopped to consider it... but it was literally "I'm vt and will self-hammer if everyone is okay with that : ("

My mind immediately went to this:

-snip-

I don’t understand your case or why people like it

first part looks like a literal summary of my play okay it’s just an entrance you said nothing AI about it

the time thing wasn’t based on my post, it’s based on datisi’s post and the posts after that, so it WAS less than 24 hours after my entrance that I came in

I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to understand that I forgot about this game and I literally JUST started playing so at that point I just gave initial impressions for like 20 min?

Then the rest of the “case” just looks like narrative “oh lol iv is defending himself and doesn’t give reads”

of course I am defending myself I just got flashwagoned ?

whatever honestly I don’t really care about this game rn VOTE: innocentvillager goodbye

i am vanilla townie btw so just hammer away whatever.

VOTE: innocentvillager

Fine?

innocentvillager has been executed ! he was...

Spoiler:

Mafia Innocent Child Finder Vigilante Finder

Welcome ! You are a

Mafia Innocent Child Finder Vigilante Finder

You are a member of the Mafia, along with [PEOPLES], you may discuss at any time in your private topic here, you may also choose to be the one performing the factional kill each night, you may also perform only 1 action per night

Each night, you may choose to check if someone is an Innocent Child

Each night, you may choose to check if someone is a Viglante

You win if the Mafia survives to see all threats to them, the game thread is here

Night 1 starts now and ends in (expired on 2021-10-02 10:00:43)

and I thought ok bye aza

[Dwlee99]

i literally did not read aza's flip until now

also I'm pretty sure this is literally just a scum claim

I mean I always open the flip regardless of my alignment but when I'm town I am glued to that shit waiting to open it. I was sitting there like "georgebailey please" to do so

[Dwlee99]

you are not enchant, you play nothing like enchant... using enchant quickhammering as an excuse is just ???

can you even show me a game where you quickhammer on day 1 minutes after a claim where you are town? you have plenty of completed games on this site right?

we had an entire day+ before deadline

you hammered aza MINUTES after aza claimed, giving nobody a chance to even react to aza's claim/ate.

and also

when did you even begin to suspect aza of being mafia ? That's not clear at all from your iso, walk me through your mindset and why you decided you needed to kill aza right there and then.

I mean I've probably done it before? Maybe? As I said, I thought aza was doing the exact thing that iv did and went okay hammer button time.

I thought aza was scum when they just kept repeating that shit about how me correctly interpreting your post was scum-indicative and had no thoughts on any of the new stuff and ignored me responding to their point about it

[Dwlee99]

Yo t3 is here let's goooo

Tic
Tac
Toe

Can either of you explain this?

In this one game I said

Tic
Tac
Toe

To t3 because haha three ts, t3, haha, funny joke

He was mafia and thought I was claiming to be his traitor (iirc)

I was town lol

[Dwlee99]

i literally did not read aza's flip until now

also I'm pretty sure this is literally just a scum claim

I mean I always open the flip regardless of my alignment but when I'm town I am glued to that shit waiting to open it. I was sitting there like "georgebailey please" to do so

We also got a pm with the flip soooo???

[Dwlee99]

Okay but I was inspired by enchant (which you can see from my reaction to his hammer there and the flip)

[Dwlee99]

If you want me to I can look at times I've hammered people but typically I'm on the wagon like way before hammer I think

I've begged for people to hammer quickly though (like the game I referenced where holiday was a VT claim and then I begged for people to hammer it and then a wagon formed on someone else who claimed PR and then blablabla etc.)

[Dwlee99]

It's probably not an effective way cause I feel like the past week of content has just been me focused on responding to whatever people are posting about me rather than me being able to observe at all

[Dwlee99]

You know who the fuck else is in this game

and dipped

andres

Wasn't he supposed to catch us a scum

[Dwlee99]

If y'all agree to not lim me for like 48 hours I want to stop posting in this game cause I think I'm just making it impossible for half the game to read and letting scum hide behind stupid shit

cya

[Dwlee99]

1-shot vig, I shot andante

[Dwlee99]

Thought that was flipping scum with the repeated "haha how was that scum?!" and the "wouldn't it be so quirky if t3 flipped town"

[Dwlee99]

Gonna be going to see a movie but voting me is a scum claim anyway so whatever

[Dwlee99]

Also yea maybe bad shot but she was so scummy okay

[Dwlee99]

Natalya I'm conftown stop

[Dwlee99]

I changed my mind cause I think you're town maybe now

Idk, t3 flip or something