Mini 2273: Science Diagrams That Look Like Shitposts 2 [END]

[Crescent]

Going to get caught up, sorry for lack of postings in last few days
Gut has been going more towards an Owen vote tbh but I'll take a look at this case on Corwin. Have been feeling like he's town though.

This is what happens when I put a

real

vote down <3

[Crescent]

Like there are so many easier targets to dump a vote on if Corwin is scum. Unless he's hoping people ignore it and eliminate someone else and he can coast by without being on a miselim? Idk

quote="In post 671, Alexcellent"]

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

Alright I'm just not feeling this. It feels like a weird team to push as scum though?? At this instant (still catching up), Corwin feels like tunnel vision town.[/quote]
He directly countervoted the first two people who voted him, and refuses to participate in game sorting arguments. Very very much dislike the "easier targets" line as an excuse, given his votes were specifically on people for voting him, rather than feeling like genuine attempts to solve the game.

He had never mentioned Vivax's existence once. The scum read is made up on the spot, then retroactively justified by one of the weakest reasons/votes I've seen in recent memory.

I'd only buy a tunnel vision argument if Vivax didn't come as a direct response to a vote. If the Jester comment was really that bad, we'd have heard about it sooner. The timing reeks of Corwin pausing to look back and trying to figure out something, anything to use to claim Vivax was scum. It's inorganic. I don't see any natural town thought process in the entire progression from 480 to 613. Posts 594 and 595 are horrifyingly contradictory on their own.

And what's the only thing he does now? A one post now calling me scum for calling him scum. He had plenty of chances to react to my growing concerns he was scum last night. Apparently, the entire scumteam all decided to vote Corwin together for shits and giggles 'This is now the narrative he's pushing. What he's not doing is any legitimate scumhunting. He has yet to do this all game. He refuses to even answer basic questions like when asked to him in 510.

Also his response to Elsa suggests Elsa is town. Do not believe I brought this up last night.

[Crescent]

How would mafia know whether or not a Jester exists?

How would they even know a third party exists, barring simply having too few numbers for the game?
Like, my last scumgame we we 3/14. We knew for dead certain there was a third party because 4 in 14 is standard where I come from.

The point is that Mafia wouldn't care which roles they're hunting because they're informed. Not knowing Jester isn't a prohibited role in Normal games from an experienced player comes off as very much not caring about needing to solve.

Ok Corwin's first line is logical here and wholly adresses Crescent's point.

The second sentence..... sure, Vivax said they've played since 2008. So check for experience. But Corwin, as this is Vivax's first game on this particular platform, don't you think a modicum of ignorance is warranted from their side?

He acknowledges his reason may be faulty in 594, because Vivax may be less experienced than he thought, one post before he votes him anyway.

That vote is probably what I most can't let go.

[Crescent]

George doing nothing for an entire new day does not give me any good feelings about George.

I've just yet to see anything remotely resembling a convincing argument about Corwin being a bad vote.

[Crescent]

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

And you choose the one without a wagon and not targeting you all game? Why get off of Owen?

Because I don't understand what you and Eira were playing at earlier. I'll go for either one if you want to make a case for which one you think is better for me when I get back.

It is based on post #611 specifically. It reeks of scum knowing their vote is bad and latching onto town to potentially sheep. It's another display that he's not attempting to solve, and it is when I voted him.

I actually could see 613 being S/S In a "cut it out already idiot" sense, but the raw pandering to Elsa and completely undermining his own vote in #611 in the process just doesn't vibe that way. It's hard to imagine scum positing this response to another scum in this situation.

[Crescent]

George doing nothing for an entire new day does not give me any good feelings about George.

I've just yet to see anything remotely resembling a convincing argument about Corwin being a bad vote.

well gibus and goldfish and owen were also kinda mute these past days, as Geraintm did mention it's weekend so some folk do stuff. My shtick with George is way more the... non-contributive, under-the-radar thing along with behavior I've detailed in earlier posts.

Goldfish also under the radar atm, haven't given them much attention but from feels alone so far no alarm bells have rung.

quote="In post 684, Eiralox"]

George doing nothing for an entire new day does not give me any good feelings about George.

I've just yet to see anything remotely resembling a convincing argument about Corwin being a bad vote.

well gibus and goldfish and owen were also kinda mute these past days, as Geraintm did mention it's weekend so some folk do stuff. My shtick with George is way more the... non-contributive, under-the-radar thing along with behavior I've detailed in earlier posts.

Goldfish also under the radar atm, haven't given them much attention but from feels alone so far no alarm bells have rung.[/quote]
I mentioned this last night, but Goldfish has been so obvious in doing nothing that it gives me pause on whether or not scum would be so obvious in doing nothing.

I feel like scum in her position would've felt compelled to do *something* by now.

Will say doing nothing last night but hedging on the Corwin argument, then never coming up with a dedicated response to it like Alex did, does not feel great at all.

[Crescent]

Tbh, between Corwin and Uno, I'd probably vote Corwin due to the info his flip gives. But also I'm uncomfortable with the Uno wagon now. Elsa/Clidd makes me uncomfortable. Skimming their ISOs, neither have really directly interacted with each other. Elsa sheeped Clidd's Owen vote like a minute after. Clidd came in with this wishwashy non-committal agreement to Elsa's policy elimination stuff a few minutes after she posted it. Elsa listed Clidd as a town read, Clidd lists Elsa as a null. Idk, uncomfortable with the whole thing there.

P-Edit: actually yeah, tunnel vision is the wrong phrasing there

Clidd and Elsa both voting Owen, then immediately trying to coax me onto it weirded me the hell out. I'm not sure I can quite put into words how awkward this all felt. It does further my belief that Elsa is probably as ADHD as I am, at least.

But this is another problem with Corwin: He was on Owen with these people. He never even acknowledges Owen now has a train in his entire "progression" to voting Vivax. He never acknowledges any of the reasons these people voted him, or my response to it. It's only when Elsa specifically points it out after he changes votes that he makes that pandering post to her.

He directly mentions Owen exactly twice: In 477 when he originally shades Vivax, and in 510 when he flat out refuses to answer Vivax's question. He has zero response, ever, to two people voting a guy he's already on.

[Crescent]

We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

The timing is very interesting, actually.

Corwin's return to attack Vivax over the Jester post is at #542. This is when he really committed to going after Vivax.

The votes on Owen come at #544 and #545. Vivax is not here at this time.

Corwin does not post again until after Vivax returns to respond to the Jester post, but makes no mention of Owen again until the very post he votes Vivax. If he were genuinely solving the game, how does he have no reaction to two Owen votes that drop right in his face as he's waiting for Vivax to respond?

[Crescent]

I definitely do not read George more green than Gibus at this time, for the record.

[Crescent]

We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

Do agree with this. Which is what I mean. Don't see why scum!Corwin votes town!Vivax there when scum can do literally anything else. Could have kept his vote on NM or on Unowen with no probs. Feels more likely town with bad argument than scum pushing something.

Why does town have no reaction whatsoever to two people voting for the same person they're voting for?

[Crescent]

Speaking of Gibus, I do find it interesting that Gibus' only chiming in on this was a vote ok Corwin with no words.

Would like to see something of his own argument instead of just plopping down vote #4 silently.

[Crescent]

There are definitely more people who think George is scummy than people who think Gera is scummy, that much is true. Acting otherwise is just not being based in fact.

[Crescent]

How in the hell do you go from me asking someone to make a plain point so we're on the same page and now things, to me suggest we "keep knowing nothing"?

Because you still didn't post a read on GeorgeBayley.

Your main goal seems to dismiss arguments, not build them.

If you are town and the wagon next to you is GeorgeBayley, and you don't know the alignment of GeorgeBayley, you can save yourself by getting him voted, which is the correct play 100% of the time.

And this is the biggest issue I have from him. Right there.

Oh and don't get me wrong. It's not all about that progression. It's been a sweeping problem all game.

This is ultimately where my scum vibes from Corwin were originally coming from, and nothing has changed. Yet again his only response was weak shade on someone who called him scum. I mentioned a while before this that Corwin had some scum equity. I've waited for a single genuine attempt at game solving, and it just never happened. All we got instead was countershade.

[Crescent]

Corwin has some scum motive to bail off of town Owen, too, if he notices those votes, though it would require a bit of forethought in the moment.

A. Those votes were arguably bad, and would reflect poorly on them later, meanwhile his unvote could be taken as disagreeing with the turn the train made, thus looking better. Corwin only had 2 votes himself at this time.
B. Newbie scum is often shy about leading actual train on town rather than just a "vote".
C. Newbie scum is often nervous about being on an early town voteoff because they are afraid it will blow back on them.

I have seen end of day vote spreads a few times where two town were tied, and a newbie scum was hiding as a splinter vote because they were afraid to be on either one and get caught in a green flip.

[Crescent]

Oh I forgot D. He already felt committed to pushing Vivax and felt dropping it would make him look worse than pursuing it.

[Crescent]

Elsa is fascinating to me right now. I can see the arguments and I can see her seeming to avoid half of them. The attempts to get me to vote Owen and their reaction to the Corwin train certainly didn't town vibe me.

I can see independent reasons for both Elsa and Corwin being scum, but based on their interactions, I don't feel it's both. An exchange like 611 especially only happens if scum plans it out beforehand. At the moment, I think Vivax is town regardless.

I won't say no to killing George, though. Almost every point I've made about him in this game has ultimately stood. I was briefly distracted by his vote and that's really about it.

[Crescent]

Corwin has some scum motive to bail off of town Owen, too, if he notices those votes, though it would require a bit of forethought in the moment.

A. Those votes were arguably bad, and would reflect poorly on them later, meanwhile his unvote could be taken as disagreeing with the turn the train made, thus looking better. Corwin only had 2 votes himself at this time.
B. Newbie scum is often shy about leading actual train on town rather than just a "vote".
C. Newbie scum is often nervous about being on an early town voteoff because they are afraid it will blow back on them.

I have seen end of day vote spreads a few times where two town were tied, and a newbie scum was hiding as a splinter vote because they were afraid to be on either one and get caught in a green flip.

I mean I guess these are all possible.

Maybe worth noting Corwin's initial post about the jester thing towards Vivax 542 does come before Elsa and Clidd jumped onto the Owen wagon (literally like 2 mins after he posted). But he doesn't actually move his vote to Vivax til a little while after.

Yep. I went over this. Jester post is 542. Owen votes are 544 and 545.
Corwin does not respond to the Owen votes or to anything happening in the game at this time.

When Vivax returns, he quickly responds to Vivax.

[Crescent]

Anyways I'm off to Synagogue. This feels like by far the most constructive banter we've had in the game so far, but again I feel like half the game is missing from it.

[Crescent]

The corwind scumcase looks good, I'll have to read over his ISO but I'm considering putting a vote there.

Goldfish, have you come to a conclusion re Corwin yet??

I would sure like if Goldfish came to a conclusion on

anything

.

[Crescent]

@alex
Not planning on changing my vote. I said it was locked and I am not going to break that (I hate liars in mafia games, people who lie about roles are thr worst)

I don't like this, I think this is bad, but I respect it

It's probably just lazy scumplay. Scum has far more motive to act like he has on the last page than town does.

A. Find excuse to vote on someone who isn't getting voted out and do so under false pretenses.

B. Claim he'd vote an unreadable person who isn't getting voted out to effectively ignore all the leading trains, so nothing can blow back on him one way or the other.

C. Coast

[Crescent]

Honestly, GB is more of an.. "acceptable compromise" to me. Too many players have scum equity for them to all be scum. He's a low-risk candidate with decently high equity.

I will say if Corwin lives the day and I don't live the night, put him on a leash tomorrow and give him a timer to produce results. He has yet to give any indication he is trying to solve the game, yet he's called everyone who's voted him scum.

[Crescent]

Also Alex strikes me as someone who thinks I'm town but is going bonkers with paranoia because the way I play is borderline certifiable at times.

This I find is a thought process that typically comes from town, because it's hard to fake consistently.

Healthy paranoia towards me is a good thing, honestly.

[Crescent]

669 being Owen's only post in the last 24 hours looks *bad*. He's dine virtually nothing for two days.

Elsa did touch on the one argument swimming in my head that could make Corwin town - Just how dumb that entire exchange looks.

Though his only contribution since returning being to call me scum for voting him does him no favors either.

Honestly though, the argument that Corwin isn't showing any genuine effort to solve the game can directly be applied to Owen's recent play.

Chances of scum/scum are low, but there's no reason to think either one has any real town equity at this point. I do usually like to resolve things like this sooner rather than later, but it's hard with how little we are currently getting from either player. Owen is both the train leader of Corwin and the biggest argument against killing him.

[Crescent]

Corwin if your anything but a VT let us know now. We're nearly out of time.

Uh.

Corwin is -4 and tied for the vote lead with GB with 20 hours left in the day. There is quite a bit of obvious resistance to voting him from some players I townread.

Why is he being singled out in this post?

[Crescent]

Actually no, Corwin and OWEN are tied. GB I think is one behind.

But the point stands, why single out Corwin?

Why does your post absolutely reek of

knowing Corwin is town

?

[Crescent]

I dislike the post for singling out one of two tied players that you seem keen on going after. The best town angle there is to ask both to claim.

But that post presupposes Corwin is town. That post reads like scum asking "Hey are you a vanilla I can try to vote off, or are you power and do I have to go elsewhere?"

[Crescent]

The paranoia I feel towards that one post is off the charts like wow

And I feel like this paranoia is actually reasonable but I want to wait for more people to chime in on it.

[Crescent]

Actually Corwin is -3 I totally forgot about Gibus popping in out of nowhere.

So he is ahead by.. 1. But there seems to be more resistance to him than there is to Owen.

[Crescent]

We don't need multiple people claiming at once. One is good enough. If Owen claims too, fine.

How is only one claiming good enough if you're set on killing one or the other?
How could you possibly make an informed decision this way?

[Crescent]

The progression of posts 705, 759, 762, and 767 is bad and makes me question if Elsa is scum and both Corwin and Owen are town, since she apparently has little concern over which of the two get voted off so long as it's one of them.

[Crescent]

People seem more likely to vote Corwin now, me and maybe Clidd included. I just picked the one I can switch my vote too.

Honestly Elsa's recent behavior definitely increases the value in a GB vote today. She does not seem to care at all who we vote off Corwin or Owen, but she's dead set against GB.

[Crescent]

To put it further, I think at this point a GB scum flip at this point makes Elsa's scum equity rocket very very much higher than anyone else's.

[Crescent]

UNVOTE: Corwin
VOTE: GB
I legitimately hate changing votes, but I feel like all I'm doing is putting it off otherwise. I'm suddenly feeling very much against either a Corwin or Owen claim today. "I wonder why".

Not even because he did anything to decrease his scum equity, but because someone else did something that dramatically raised the scum equity of themselves and the third player up for vote.

If you're town Corwin, shape the hell up tomorrow. We are going to need more than what you have given us. Your scum equity is still very high and your play has been nonsensical at best from a town perspective.

[Crescent]

I got a preference and because of that George is scum? Wut?

Your preference is "anyone so long as it isn't GB."
This is not a town mindset. You do not care who dies so long as it's one of Owen or Corwin. You vibe like you're trying to kill one today and the other tomorrow and the order doesn't matter.

[Crescent]

VOTE: GeorgeBailey

...


Yeah, whatever. I guess I get to double vote right now.

[Crescent]

Anyways, I was already alright on compromising on GB, but the information potential is now quite a bit higher than it was this morning. Low risk, good albeit not spectacular scum equity, and a trove of potential information.

The string of spew he posted while I was out did exactly nothing for me in any case.

[Crescent]

George I'm sorry you appear to be dying for my sins. I won't vote you to honor you.

I'm torn between how obvious it felt that GB was going to be voted off at day's end and the speed at which those two votes followed mine.

The only reason I'm not immediately unvoting to give some more breathing space is we're already in the last 18 or so hours, but I do want to hear from Vivax why he switched sooner rather than later.

[Crescent]

George I'm sorry you appear to be dying for my sins. I won't vote you to honor you.

If GB flips scum, look at that train on Owen. Yikes

[Crescent]

The hell I wasn't quoting a post that time

[Crescent]

Also if GB flips scum there is a fairly good chance his current train of 6 is pure.

[Crescent]

George I'm sorry you appear to be dying for my sins. I won't vote you to honor you.

If GB flips scum, look at that train on Owen. Yikes

i theorized clidd/elsa/george way back. we'll see how it plays out.

Clidd probably ends up being town unless scum decided to all jump on the same guy at the same time.

[Crescent]

It's actually directly relevant to 2272. The same town ended up being with two scum on two different trains.

Going kekeke Zerg rush on one guy does sound fun in concept though.

[Crescent]

And personally I'd go Gera before Clidd, especially if we get scum GB and town Corwin/Owen. It makes everything he's done on recent pages look even worse.

Keep a useless vote on me. Refuse to engage in the town/town feud of Owen and Corwin to avoid said potential blowback I mentioned earlier, with instances of GB defense sprinkled in from the start of the game.

[Crescent]

Cres your paranoia will be the death of us.

I was already quite confident GB was going to end up being voted off today. I had made it personally clear I was willing to vote him.

The only thing that changed recently is I now think you're scum if he flips scum.

And now you just seem like you're flailing.

[Crescent]

Well I can't just claim masons with him to prove you wrong, but frankly I'm like 95 percent sure if we don't solve the Owen Corwin thing now it'll be an issue for even longer. Plus we still got NotMaf.

What will you do if/when George flips town? Just says "oops" and go back to Corwin?

If I'm alive in this situation, I give Corwin 4 days to convince me he's actually trying to solve the game. If he passes, I reevaluate who to vote for based on the new information of the day. If he fails, I murder him.

I am hoping town holds him to this if I am not alive to do it myself.

[Crescent]

Bro you literally just decided because I said something that bothered you and set off your radar you're gonna kill someone that isn't me for it. How elsa am I supposed to react here?

You seem to be ignoring that I clearly said I was not opposed to a GB vote earlier today. My vote was likely always going to end up there, just maybe not as soon. I don't think Corwin or Owen would've had the momentum required to reach majority.

[Crescent]

Clidd is yet to answer me on my many points(or offer any feedback on this really, chances are they're offline today)

Gera... no. Gera needs time, they stated their dislike of D1's and they've been consistent in that at least. If their D2 looks like their D1, yeah something's up, but right now I remain null. Their interaction with you I read as genuine frustration. Yes, such emotions can be faked, but overall I haven't found anything to peg Gera on. It's the whole meta regarding the attacks on gera which made me decide to vote for GB after all, as well as Not_MAfia's nudge.

I don't really remember much of what Clidd has done other than seemingly contradict himself on Gera before retroactively justifying it.

I actually did those ISOs, and he did have an actual point, albeit not a game breaking one. I'm just not enthused with the roundabout way he went about it.

[Crescent]

And frankly, even with a green flip, I think there is *at most* one scum currently on GB. The way the game has progressed has made me consistently gut read NM as town, and Eira/Alex have townvibed me. Vivax's behavior with Corwin has also townvibed me.

Unless I'm getting townvibes from all the wrong people I think this vote is almost entirely town driven regardless.

[Crescent]

I am a bit worried about one thing here.

There's a truckload of people I think are probably town with a red flip here (though some would require a red flip from Elsa to solidify). It always makes me a little paranoid when it feels like so much can get put together all at once because it generally isn't that easy to solve a massive chunk of the game all at once.

It actually happened last game though. The day 2 red flip obliterated the scumteam.

[Crescent]

I'm a PR

If you're town and wanted to vaguely say you were a PR, the time was when you had 3 votes and several people indicated they were willing to vote you. The writing has been on the wall all day.

At -1, this doesnt fly.

[Crescent]

We just had a game where town soft PR claimed at E-3 on day 1, and you were in it.

And frankly doing it that early is the only reason he survived the day.


Also, wrong.

Corwin had 4, Owen had 3, and you had 3.

And I had made it very clear I was willing to vote you and essentially take the Corwin train down with it. That train was dead without me.

[Crescent]

Of course Cres decided to ignore the crumbs from our PR and made him reveal. Great going there.

It's interesting how GB has 6 votes on him, yet Elsa is consistently blaming me and only me for him having a train.

[Crescent]

are people really asking me to case here

i'm going to get fucking nightkilled

just unvote and pick someone else

How about you give us any indication of who that someone else should be?

[Crescent]

Actually, Elsa's last 5 posts are essentially just blaming me for the train on GB while refusing to engage anyone else on the train or the game in any other way.

[Crescent]

idk

i'm on owen

go owen

or anyone else

Why are you on Owen?

[Crescent]

Of course Cres decided to ignore the crumbs from our PR and made him reveal. Great going there.

It's interesting how GB has 6 votes on him, yet Elsa is consistently blaming me and only me for him having a train.

Because you just made the entire town flip on a dime to a guy you admitted had less scum equity then Corwin or Owen. And as someone who rolls scum more often then most, I've picked up noticing PRs pretty well. That's why I was against this to start with.

I'm fairly sure this was going to happen without or without my help.

You

still

don't seem to care which of the two we actually vote.

[Crescent]

...With or without, nice one brain.

[Crescent]

So.. Did a lot happen while I was gone?

GB is predictably faking being a PR at -1 and refuses to do anything to try to solve the game, meanwhile Elsa is hellbent on doing absolutely nothing but yelling at me because she doesn't actually care who we vote off out of Corwin or Owen.

So basically neither player is even trying to be pro-town at the moment.

[Crescent]

That player not hammering you?

very sharp

Aren't most hammers flat?

[Crescent]

You've yet to actually point out where these crumbs were, you've just mentioned their existence repeatedly.

[Crescent]

Also sidebar is it just me or is Elsa kinda treating me like she knows I'm town? For all the blaming she's giving me she's giving me absolutely no shade for it.

[Crescent]

GB is predictably faking being a PR at -1 and refuses to do anything to try to solve the game,

crescent

me claiming PR should be enough for you to unvote.

If I don't get nightkilled, then I'm up for elim tomorrow.

Sacrificing yourself to probably live 1 more day ISN'T A GOOD DEAL FOR SCUM.

I already made it clear last game I never would've shot Scorpious as scum night 1 last game. I never would've considered it for a second.

Even if you're town here: I would never, for any reason whatsoever, consider killing you tonight if I was scum. Not with the way you have played.

[Crescent]

Good scumteams don't fear town power. They fear the best town players. Scum has a virtual coinflip on whether to kill Eiralox or myself tonight - There are no other good kills, unless they are DAMN sure a 2nd-tier player is power.

Scum tried this with that Roden kill last game and boy did it backfire.

[Crescent]

I told you this in 2272:

In my last scumgame, I had the cop pegged on night 1. I casually roleblocked said unclaimed cop and banked on being able to keep my roleblocker alive to continue to do so. I instead knocked off the only town players capable of leading a train against me to vote me off. My night 3 kill was on a known town vanilla, and I didn't care. There were 2 claimed power roles and said unclaimed cop, but he was the one who needed to die.

I turned him into the game-winning scumhammer on day 5. I received 0 votes all game.

[Crescent]

Also the best role in the game always is and always has been town vanilla, except for that one time I got "town vanilla that can keep posting after it dies".

That was sweet~

[Crescent]

if George flips town i'm still not discounting Elsa/Clidd. The water will me muddied though.

Hard to fake a mason claim.
If Elsa was serious.

If they were actually masons there is 0 reason not to hardclaim that well before it got to this.

[Crescent]

there was 0 reason not to fucking unvote jesus christ

I do dislike Owen hammering so quickly.

But there was 0 reason to unvote without an actual reason to unvote. Am unspecified power claim at -1 is not a reason to unvote. Any member of any scumteam can do that.

[Crescent]

I will say though that claims are always best made when -2 or -3.

The concept that people should always wait until they're -1 feels insanely anti-town to me by every metric.

[Crescent]

sad that we can't eliminate Gibus,

I wanted a Gibus myself.

Yet you..

Didn't say this at all. You just said vote Owen? Why? No one knows.


I mean if you flip Green you've just completely failed to present an actual case for you being town. You were asked to give a viable alternative and you refused. I will never care about someone claiming "PR" at -1,

ever

.

There wasn't a single thing that happened between your claim and the hammer that made me think you were town.

[Crescent]

Well ok, I might care if I actually thought they were town to begin with. I can't say "ever".

[Crescent]

So Elsa, when did he apparently breadcrumb detective, since you seem to be the only one in the game who thinks he did?

[Crescent]

I mean if you flip Green you've just completely failed to present an actual case for you being town.

being townie is discovered, not announced.

You were asked to give a reason to vote for someone who wasn't you and you

refused

.

[Crescent]

How is posting 20 times and almost nothing of substance playing like standard investigator PR?

He was effectively neighbor last game and had a very similar postcount.. Just a lot more content.

[Crescent]

Vanilla neighbor*

[Crescent]

What's kind of insane is through 5 1/2 days, this game had half the posts of 2272, but in the last day, it's actually gone above it in posts. We've had a crazy burst of activity at the end of the day.

[Crescent]

The role sounds like an uber-gimped cop that has a low chance of doing anything meaningful unless it's alive with exactly 1 scum left.

[Crescent]

Also

I can feel myself starting to get trucked over by a building migraine. I need to vegetate in darkness for a bit. Will see if the day is still up.

[Crescent]

Vanilla neighbor*

Is this a claim?

That's what his role was last game.

He was just way more proactive/aggressive than he was in this one. Virtually identical post counts, too.

Why on Earth would I have been claiming anything?

[Crescent]

Just looking at those flips Corwin is probably town. It makes me feel pain that the timeline leading to that Vivax vote yesterday probably came from town. Votes that bad are not supposed to come from town. Harassing scum all day with a role like Owen's is a good way to accidentally bus and/or to just get shot by your own team. The wiki is very loose on what Owen's role actually means. though. Are there 2 scum left or are there 3? I'm guessing traitor is supposed to make it like... 3 1/2 scum? I haven't played with an "aligned" role in a game in years.

Fun story: Long before I started playing, there was a power-crazy game with a mafia-aligned vigilante.

He mowed down almost his entire scumteam

.


Clidd kill feels like Roden kill did last game - Scum aiming for a lower poster and trying to hit town power. Outside of his sus on Gera for half the day, I barely remember anything he championed yesterday.



Also I'm still not clear to return to work and I might not be for another 3 weeks soooo good luck to everyone who was hoping it would help distract my OCD. I am still not cleared to wear the kind of footwear required for my job.

And now with initial impressions out of the way I'm going to read the actual posts since the day started.

[Crescent]

I am.. Really surprised that I'm almost a full day late yet apparently the first to mention Owen's behavior making him a risk to get shot by his own team if Corwin is scum.

If they think he's low-posting power and he's all over Corwin like a dog, there's a decent chance they just shoot him. It's very risky to draw that much attention from the scumteam that early with no apparent hints in the ISO as to being traitor. It's just bad play unless he was always intending to look that bad at the end of the day. Corwin being scum only makes sense if Owen was planning to effectively outright claim scum at the end of the day from the beginning, given he was on him all day.

....Which is "possible", given how obviously he did it.. But it would have still been very dangerous to draw that kind of aggro from scum because there was no guarantee he'd get such a setup to happen at the end of the day.

[Crescent]

It almost sounds as if he wanted to give credit to elsa for scaring him off Owen, but doesn't read them as town. Eira on the other hand gets that credit and a townread. Then I realize it's not credit but a blame shift.
If he was thinking about his townreads, why is the next thing Corwin thought about the reason he voted away from Owen (and then posting an apologetic reason)? Feeling guilty, that's why.

Guilty about what, exactly? I have no idea what this post is actually saying.

No one actually knew Owen was scum, the scumteam included. He was effectively a third party. Corwin has no reason to think retroactively justifying getting off of Owen would help him, and thus his words are just null and can be taken at face value. Both town and scum Corwin would be telling the truth in this situation.

[Crescent]

To put it simply:

The votes in question come in while Corwin is already questioning Vivax. Town Corwin gets spooked by these votes and it influences his vote on Vivax. It's weak, but the Vivax vote itself was weak. Corwin's play in general has been weak.

Scum Corwin sees the votes come in while questioning Vivax. The votes spook him into thinking Owen's vote might be gaining momentum, and he thinks Owen is town. He wants to get off of this vote and uses Vivax as an excuse to do it. See post #707 where I detailed reasons why scum Corwin might get off of town Owen.

Regardless of his alignment, Corwin's given reasons for getting off of Owen were true. Acting like it was some measure of guilt seems like a bizarre interpretation.

[Crescent]

Goldfish's 3 posts today are awful and she said we'd get reads "in the morning" 17 1/2 hours ago by the way.

Kiiiiinda think that morning's already come and gone...

[Crescent]

Corwin why do you wanna get into a second fight to be eliminated again so soon? Please at least find another person who could be scum. Don't be like Owen and tunnel Vivax all day. We saw how that turned out.

Also this.

I still want to see something that resembles a legitimate attempt at game solving from Corwin today.

[Crescent]

Elsa is presupposing I would have somehow figured out Owen is traitor in that little speech there. I would like an explanation of *how* I would somehow magically figure that out if I was scum with Corwin.

This seems like an argument for me to possibly be scum with anyone

but

Corwin.


Yesterday I accused Elsa of not caring which of Corwin/Owen died. Now one's flipped scum, and she's still immediately going after the other. It could conceivably still be possible she thought GB was traitor and thought Owen/Corwin was T/T, which actually perfectly explains her behavior from yesterday going into today.

Because now she's painting an outlandish scenario that calls two people scum who don't make any sense as scum together. This reeks of trying to vote him off and just shooting me after he flips town.

Also Ger, nothing jumped out to me from your previous posts, did you want a response on something?

[Crescent]

Well I can't just claim masons with him to prove you wrong, but frankly I'm like 95 percent sure if we don't solve the Owen Corwin thing now it'll be an issue for even longer. Plus we still got NotMaf.

What will you do if/when George flips town? Just says "oops" and go back to Corwin?

Anyways I'm the person who championed against Corwin yesterday and have made by far the best argument against him, but even to this I said I would at least give him 4 days to show me he's trying to solve and reevaluate from there whether he did or not. This is obviously before Owen's flip.

...But I also think Owen's flip demanded we take a step back and reevaluate anyway. Vivax and Elsa feel like they're clinging to the dying embers of yesterday's train. Elsa didn't even vote the guy yesterday and was only going to do it halfassedly late in the day. She sure takes a lot of jabs at specifically me at the end of the day.

I think there's a pretty high chance Corwin is town, and scum was hoping I'd go after him. This exact scenario is what happened involving Ger in 2272 - Scum wanted to use my voice to push him out.

The fact that it's only after I didn't that Elsa suddenly voted him and manufactured a scenario that made us both scum is.. "interesting".


I would vote Elsa before Corwin at the moment and it is not particularly close. We do still really need more from him though. The longer he goes without a significant contribution the worse I'm going to feel.

[Crescent]

....When have I ever voted Vivax?

[Crescent]

Um... No. The only time I've ever placed an early day vote in recent memory was in a game with 1 scum left on day 4, I was 99% sure who it was, and I just wanted to nuke said scum out of the game before they knew what hit them.

Like what have I even done to give any indication I would loosely vote on a guy I've barely even talked about all game at the start of day 2?

[Crescent]

Oh I will say I'm not a fan of like, any of Vivax's posts today, and #977 in particular is bad. Honestly, Corwin has given us more content today than Vivax has, given he's at least provided reads on people who aren't Vivax.

His entire day can be summed up with "Tunnel Corwin and hope Crescent follows."

[Crescent]

Wanting to lynch Corwin yesterday but being widely townread, then having to compromise on George only to find that today we've somehow regressed to discussing me is mildly disappointing.
A reason for someone to be mafia shouldn't become better just because you add more content.

Daily challenge: Find the player who attempts AtE on D2.

Nothing good comes out of me playing mafia emotionally.

Anyways, this post has two flaws.

A. You have yet to even

comment

on Owen's flip. I feel like you've just completely ignored it to continue to push the Corwin narrative. There's a stark difference between the approach you and Elsa have had to Corwin today, even though you're both on him. I haven't particularly liked much of what I've seen out of her theorycrafting, but at least she's doing

something

.

B. I wouldn't say you were being widely townread at all. I feel like most people who commented had you in their neutral range, and I only had you townlisted if Corwin was scum.


Vivax's 7 posts today:

#953: Joke sus on Alex. Says kill Corwin. Doesn't actually vote (?). Hopes I join.

#954: Fluff or Rolefishing at Eira. Choose one.

#956: More joke sus on Alex. Threatens Corwin.

#976: "Meh" response... To Corwin in a "meh" post. I'd actually have found it awkward if he townread me because it would go against his behavior yesterday. Not sure why Elsa would get a town read for scaring him off a vote either.

#977: Awkward, bad shade on Corwin.

#998: Rolefishes at Eira again, then says "kill Corwin it's a slam dunk" (yet his vote still is not on him)

#1018: Complainy, inaccurate post about the state of the game day 1. We had a 3-way vote going and there was some resistance to voting off Corwin. Vivax was also not "widely townread".


There is

nothing

of substance here.

[Crescent]

Probably the biggest reason it's hard to read me is I play mafia based on my mood and not on my role. I'm so easily affected by outside influences that my entire game can change on a dime.

You actually saw it yourself last game - I basically disappeared for the back half of day 2 after my emergency room situation. I made the right vote in the end, but it turned me into a virtual non-factor in comparison to my earlier play.

And this is relevant, because if Eiralox is anything like me, something may have happened to just completely throw them off from actually being able to focus on the game. I wouldn't read a lot into it yet after ~36 hours of the day being up.

[Crescent]

Sorry for the L-word again. It's really hard to adapt when playing on this site and printing your thoughts quickly. 10 years of using it leaves a mark.
I think if you put the first post from Corwin I pinged into a Quiz, most players would think it's a mafia writing it.

I'm here, I'm keeping up on things but I've been busy lately also. I'm consciously trying to observe more and drive a little less this game than I have in previous ones while I shake the rust off.

Oh I agree that post was bad. One of the many reasons he had early scum equity.

But what I really want from you is one post of substance that actually has nothing to do with Corwin.

[Crescent]

Fine, if you insist that I find someone outside of Corwin I will. Just don't expect me to be quick.
I was thinking of clidd as wildcard before he got shot. Considering he had quite the pokerface on him, he probably had a right hunch somewhere.
Or does he have a reputation of being consistently good?

No L-word, nice.

UNVOTE: Corwinoid

Your vote wasn't even on him to begin with, given how sure you seemed. I already pointed this out.

[Crescent]

You can't do any worser then NotMaf and the now non-existent fish.

Did fish ever... Truly... Exist?

[Crescent]

Honestly though, I never even told Vivax to stop pursuing Corwin, which makes the unvote of a vote he never placed kind of even more bizarre. I just told him to stop *only* pursuing Corwin and to talk about something else for a change.

One thing though... If Goldfish is scum, she at least has someone to like, handfeed her an argument in private. I mentioned yesterday that as bad as her nothingness looks, I felt like scum wouldn't allow itself to be so flagrantly useless - Even NM has more content. The posts today just... Show a total lack of any sort of preparation. For her to be scum means her team was doing absolutely nothing to help her out at all, even over the night phase. Those 3 posts were all horrid.

Also. Can we just.. Replace NM out, too?

[Crescent]

Why is that the only thing you have to comment on zzzz

[Crescent]

Because it's the only thing today that hasn't been exceptionally boring.

@NM, can you please shit post again for

our

my amusement? TIA.

Town like you only make it more work for the people who are actually trying. Your presence is offensive to me and you have no business being in a game if you think your play has been acceptable You're almost as useless as NM is.

Where I come from NM is force replaced long ago for refusing to actually play the game. Any half-decent host should force him to actually play or to throw him out.

[Crescent]

Oh and scum rarely acknowledges not actually caring about playing to win like he did just there.

[Crescent]

11 posts in 10 days, if you count the twilight. No discernable content.

It's a joke that he's somehow gotten through this game without even a prod. Koba hosted last game and would prod you even if you posted if you had no game advancing content.

Do your damned job, host.

[Crescent]

Anyways Vivax... Why Clidd? You shaded him a little very early day 1 and haven't mentioned him since post #182.

[Crescent]

Insulting the mod doesn't help the game Cres. And that's more a private message issue if you legit have issues there.

Oh I've seen it help games before...

[Crescent]

Anyways Corwin being a nearly worthless player defending NM being a worthless player and actively asking him to continue to be worthless may have gotten me a bit mad.

Let's rolllll it back.

[Crescent]

If you don't find 11 posts in 10 days with 0 content useless... Why even play? What is even the point?

[Crescent]

On that note I still have 0 objection to removing him from the game purely on policy. It's mandatory we do it at some point.

[Crescent]

Kind of funny that Vivax and I said the same thing within seconds of each other...

[Crescent]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

Tomorrow, maybe. I think you're early by at least a day.

Also, since it might not be clear from the last few posts,

this

is not a shit post. (Neither was finding NM useful).

This feels like a really weird comment towards Vivax given he's currently voting Vivax..

[Crescent]

The fact that you seriously humored the idea that scum would ever kill NM is mind-blowing.

Like. I cannot even comprehend that statement being made as anything other than a shitpost.

[Crescent]

Spending an early elim to hard filter a slot you can treat with hard probability right now is distinctly anti-town though.

I think likelihood is NM is "town" and I'd still be on board with killing him. If town can't come to any serious consensus of who to remove on basis of play, NM becomes the consensus by default. He must be removed from the game eventually, and scum sure as hell isn't going to do it regardless of his alignment.

[Crescent]

If you spent 5 minutes looking at his game history, it has happened. They don't know if he's a PR or not also.

Based on my two games here, people seem to drastically overvalue PRs. PRs are only as good as the players who wield them.

[Crescent]

I've gotten rid of players like him before when thinking they're town.

We have like 5 people who are actually trying. If we can come to a consensus on someone, good. If we can't, we throw NM away like the refuse he is and take the night to re-gather our thoughts.

Look at you though, actually making an argument that looks like it's coming from town for the first time all game~

[Crescent]

(I admit have been wondering all this time if you've been defending him solely based on the fact that he's voting Vivax with you, though.)

[Crescent]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

I asked you earlier why you would've gone for Clidd given you last mentioned him all the way back in #182.

You should at least have an answer to back that up?

[Crescent]

Uh

We are not policy voting NM out with over 5 days left in day 2. Trust me I want to do just that, but that's *bad* form. We still have to hear from both the replacement and Eiralox. Who knows, maybe we'll get another player who actually tries.

This kind of just feels like a convenient excuse for a guy who was tunneling all over someone while apparently not realizing he never voted him in the first place to just... Tunnel over the useless player instead.

[Crescent]

When I looked up vigilante on the wiki it suggested they're generally X shot here. There's no guarantee they can shoot again.

NM is only killed today if we end up in a situation with no better options, as much as I want to just murder him immediately. He's a solid vig shot though, as he needs to be removed from the game and doing it via a vigshot doesn't potentially cost us a day. We're on an even number right now.

[Crescent]

11 posts in 10 days, if you count the twilight. No discernable content.

It's a joke that he's somehow gotten through this game without even a prod. Koba hosted last game and would prod you even if you posted if you had no game advancing content.

Do your damned job, host.

Okay boomer

Don't worry, I'm already going to make sure I'm never trapped in a game with you again.

[Crescent]

Alright, will read up when I can. Glanced over the last few pages and saw a policy elim for NM being talked about? Some things never change.

We have a vigilante who can hopefully take out the trash for us, at least.

I'm kind of just waiting for the explanation of why Eira has really done nothing today that we'll probably get later.

Half the game is inactive so it won't take much to do better than what we've already got. The bar is set super low for you already ~

[Crescent]

To expand: You can't possibly think I look bad for wanting to launch NM today when he's still alive and you don't know his alignment.

*Raises hand*

The NM vote was legitimately bad because a vote on him that early in the day achieves absolutely nothing. It's the ultimate sinkhole. I've made it no secret I find him insufferable and want him out of this game, but rushing him out is not pro-town.

I'm only on phone at the moment so tabbing all over the place isn't an option but next up I'm taking a peek at Gera's day 2 ISO.

[Crescent]

The "gut feeling" I had right away was this isn't T/T. Time for some research~

Gera does have more of a consistent (albeit disjointed) pattern towards Vivax than I remembered -- Though most of this was only after Vivax had 3 votes. There are also some things I want to work out here.

Post #980 though, is before Eiralox and NM vote for him. It calls Vivax "reachy" for one of his joke sus posts on Alex, and says he plans to look into Vivax and Corwin.

In #1000 he talks about ignoring Corwin claiming. Corwin capped at -3 and was never claimed. It may be an awkward reference to that, but I don't "get" the mention here.

In #1021 he says he also thinks Corwin is town when responding to me, but he never gave his own reasons for this change in stance, nor does he seem to notice in #1088 that Vivax never actually voted Corwin to begin with despite it being pointed out 3 times. It's sloppy work, at best.


I actually think the NM vote, which is apparently what drew Gera's vote onto Vivax, was more "bad" than "scummy" . It was the act of doing nothing but tunneling Corwin and then turning to NM under pressure to do anything but tunnel Corwin that looked scummy. Gera's arguments on both Corwin and Vivax today feel incomplete.


As for your responses.. #1093 is irrelevant. Owen flipped Red, sure, but the scumteam didn't know his alignment. There are no town points to be gotten for having voted him.

In #1098, I don't really like anything in this post. The point about #1091 is weak because Alex did not vote for NM - Only you did. That he would react to you differently at a result is natural. You also shade him for presupposing your alignment based on someone else's. I personally presupposed your alignment based on someone else's alignment yesterday.

#1100 makes no sense, as you weren't tunneling Corwin for nearly the "entire day" yesterday. It reminds me of #1018... It's just an inaccurate representation of how the game has played out.


Speaking of Clidd... As the only person in the entire game who actually researched Clidd's argument, I did confirm he was acting closer to the scum game in question than the town games in question. The way Clidd argued it was so retroactive that I think people were just lazy and ignored it.

I'm not enthused by either side of this right now.

[Crescent]

I was kind of drawing up a massive for almost an hour post when I started out wanting to make a simple flowchart in response to crescent.
But the end result is that crescent is likely mafia.

Uh.

So where is said flow chat? The scumteam of Corwin/Gera/Me you're now proposing makes very little sense in a vacuum, partially based on my behavior and partially based on Owen's. You have a lot of work to show and only the promise of "just trust me bro" to show for it.

Oh my first Pedit of the game: There we go, some actual reasoning~

[Crescent]

That post was remarkably weak for a change of vote. Disappointing. I do enjoy a good dance sometimes, but it's just rehashing posts from the first 50 posts of the game and making points that were already made long ago.

My town vibe on Gibus thinking it was serious directly parallels my suspicion of Gamma for randomly townreading me very early in day 1 without giving a reason in the very last game. This is all already asked and answered stuff.

[Crescent]

Now let's review some places where it failed:

A. Rehashing posts that other players scrutinized long ago that I also responded to long ago is not making an actual case. Quoting the same post multiple times in different spots makes it feel worse. I spent the next 100-200 posts getting occasional flak for the very posts you quoted.

B. It didn't explain how a scum combination of Corwin/Owen/Myself makes

any sense whatsoever

. It ignores Owen's existence (as you have done all day except the one moment you tried to use his red flip to say you looked good), and that I'm the only person in the entire game that took Clidd's argument against Gera seriously. Elsa only said Corwin and I would be scum together based on thinking I had voted you when I never did. Both myself and Alex have pointed out how nonsensical Corwin/Myself being scum together would be.

I and Owen would both have to be spending this game bussing like crazy, but here's the rub.

Scum is not going to leave a high volume poster like me alive if I'm mowing down scum. To play this game the way I have if I'm scum with Corwin and Gera is

suicide

. It's actively throwing the game so badly that it's arguably not even playing to win.

[Crescent]

Please, for the love of god play this game and not the last one. I literally don't care what happened in every other game you've played, and I can't be fucked to go read through every one that you reference to care.

This is directly relevant to the situation at hand. Just because you're an embarrassment to the game of mafia doesn't make it an invalid point. It IS playing this game to reference that one because the situations are directly comparable.

It also doesn't make Clidd's argument against Gera invalid, when most of his argument was based loosely on past games.

[Crescent]

You don't need to find more than one mistake to realize someone is a liar who pretends to tell the truth while telling the truth.

I think I have three questions Crescent can't possibly answer:

Why did geraintm say that Corwin claimed and I ignored it?

If you don't know, why aren't you interested in it?

If you are interested in it, why didn't you ask about it and pretended not to notice #1101?

I only noticed it when you brought it up in #1098. I even said I have no idea where it's coming from.

Because I find it more awkward than scummy. It had already been brought up by you, and all there was to dowas to wait for the response. The way you jumped immediately to "Gera told Corwin to fakeclaim vig" in #1101 is actually

significantly scummier

than Gera thinking Corwin had claimed when he didn't.

"I only noticed it when you brought it up in #1098."


It's no secret I haven't been sharp this game. I missed a few things day 1 that I should've caught immediately, such as Elsa putting the host in her readslist.

Your arguments are again bad, but I also feel like scum probably doesn't kamikaze into me like this.

I would like to note though that he's apparently calling me scum in this post based on calling Gera scum, which is the same kind of WIFOM he just shaded Gera for.

[Crescent]

I'm torn because Vivax's last 3 votes come off like flailing scum, but it's hard to see that actually coming after me of all people, especially with an argument so weak I can hit it down with a flyswatter. The other issue is I don't trust the 4th vote on him, but it's specifically that 4th vote that's made him turn super flaily in the past half day or so.

The votes on Vivax are Corwin (probably town), Eira (probably town but inactive today), NM (please vig), and Gera (Who I don't trust at all).

Meanwhile Elsa is kinda wasting her vote on Corwin for... I'm not sure what reason anymore. Some of her arguments seemed to be based around me voting Vivax which never happened, yet I don't feel like pointing out that never happened actually changed anything. I would like an update from her.

[Crescent]

The situations are only comparable in your hyper-self-aware attention whoring self important flood posting world where you think you are a goddamn paragon of Mafia brilliance and everyone who doesn't grovel at your feet for the crumbs of your reads and play THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO is "bad at the game".

Seriously, fuck off.

VOTE: Crescent
Policy vote for fucking off unfun players. Go away.

Says the person who tolerates NM.

zzzzz.

[Crescent]

The situations are directly, absolutely comparable. It is DIRECTLY RELEVANT to this game to bring it up. I don't actually understand how someone could be so dense to not see that arguments like this are legitimately important. I have exactly one way of defending myself for the early Gibus townread. Why am I not supposed to talk about it?

[Crescent]

The situations are only comparable in your hyper-self-aware attention whoring self important flood posting world where you think you are a goddamn paragon of Mafia brilliance and everyone who doesn't grovel at your feet for the crumbs of your reads and play THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO is "bad at the game".

Seriously, fuck off.

VOTE: Crescent
Policy vote for fucking off unfun players. Go away.

Says the person who tolerates NM.

zzzzz.

Maybe you need to learn how to be a better team player. This isn't a word count contest

If we had less players like you and more players that were actually active, my post count would be

much

lower. When barely anyone in the game is trying, I do one of two things:

I get ridiculously active to try to fill in the gap, or I just outright quit the game once I feel the town is no longer worth trying to save.

I'm not this active because I

want

to be. I'm this active because I feel like I

need

to be.

[Crescent]

And if you think I'm actually in any way enjoying having to have a post count this high to save this town from itself, you don't understand me at all. I feel like I'm one of the only people in the game actually playing to win. Sometimes it annoys me, and other times it infuriates me.

If I turn the OCD off, I believe I am stepping back and letting town die. The only thing to me that's actually important in mafia is winning the game. I don't care what I have to do and I don't care if I make the entire game hate me to do it. Outside of mafia games, I'm actually amicable. In them? Don't care. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

[Crescent]

Maybe other people would be more active if you weren't so overactive

Actually I think my surge yesterday drastically improved the activity of a few other players, it's just the inactives stayed inactive.

Eiralox was especially responsive to it yesterday. I do really worry something happened with her during the night phase and it's taken her head out of the game.

[Crescent]

We still have this one core issue:

You never acknowledged Owen's flip when pursuing Corwin. You completely ignored it.

You have yet to explain how Corwin and I being scum with Owen could conceivably make any sense whatsoever. This assumes a ton of early bussing, but doesn't actually explain any reasons why. There is no counter to the arguments that scum-aligned Owen that could've been shot for scum voting for scum Corwin the entire day wouldn't have made any sense. I also think Corwin is a virtual lock for town now after that vote he just placed on me.

But here's the fun fact: The

only time

you have made any reference to Owen being scum mattering is when you tried to cash in on his scum flip, disregarding that he was aligned and there was no credit for voting him. It appears it only matters when it's a moment of opportunity for you.

[Crescent]

I changed one of those sentences partially through and boy it was a mess.

There is no counter to the arguments that scum-aligned Owen voting scum Corwin the entire day wouldn't have made any sense, as he could've easily just been shot for doing it.


You haven't actually done any of the work required to build a legitimate case, yet you're acting like your case is already complete. This is essentially the exact same thing I said Gera did. I don't mind being called scum for a good reason, but the only one to actually do that so far was Eiralox back on day 1.

[Crescent]

And if you think I'm actually in any way enjoying having to have a post count this high to save this town from itself, you don't understand me at all. I feel like I'm one of the only people in the game actually playing to win. Sometimes it annoys me, and other times it infuriates me.

If I turn the OCD off, I believe I am stepping back and letting town die. The only thing to me that's actually important in mafia is winning the game. I don't care what I have to do and I don't care if I make the entire game hate me to do it. Outside of mafia games, I'm actually amicable. In them? Don't care. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

Your OCD isn't an excuse for personal attacks against players, asking people to replace, and asking the mod to force replace someone. If you don't understand why this behavior isn't appropriate then you seriously need to step back and think about it objectively for a minute, or 120.

If you think flooding out every body else's content, however slow it might be trickling in the first half of this day, is a "pro-town" activity: It's not. It's actively not pro town to draw so much attention to yourself and your personal needs that it hides the limited activity of every other play. It is, in fact, so anti-town as to legitimately justify voting you. When you couple that with your anti-town push to eliminate a random-draw slot at low equity it's doubly justified.

It's ironic as fuck for someone that thinks they're so self-aware to lack the self-awareness to know how anti-town they're acting. To the point it's likely deliberate.

NM being force replaced is a matter of course. It is the best thing for the game regardless of his alignment. My stance on this will never change.

And yeah Corwin is a virtual lock for town. This has "pissed off town who isn't playing to win" written all over it.

[Crescent]

So Elsa, again. I would like an update on your reads when you're next around. Corwin is virtually certain town now. Your vote there does not do us any good at all.

The question I'm asking myself now is if Vivax is also town. His arguments suck, but I feel like staying on Gera would've been a way more prudent course of action for scum Vivax.

If they're both town, I think we need to put Gera under more scrutiny and squeeze more out of him.

[Crescent]

Oh and for the record I'd let myself be voted off (this town will get dominated and never remove another scum from the game if that happens, but it also wouldn't be my problem anymore) before I let Corwin be voted off. I'm that sure he's town now.

If he's managed to pull off this kind of indignant town fury as scum, I can only tip my cap to him and praise him for a job well down. I can't see anything ever happening that would make me approve of voting him off.

[Crescent]

You never acknowledged Owen's flip when pursuing Corwin. You completely ignored it.

I pursued Corwin before Owen's flip, so it doesn't matter. Are you saying that Owens vote on Corwin makes him town?

You have yet to explain how Corwin and I being scum with Owen could conceivably make any sense whatsoever. This assumes a ton of early bussing, but doesn't actually explain any reasons why. There is no counter to the arguments that scum-aligned Owen that could've been shot for scum voting for scum Corwin the entire day wouldn't have made any sense. I also think Corwin is a virtual lock for town now after that vote he just placed on me.

No, I don't? Look at the thread lol. Corwin claimed scum to me on D1, there was this moment when I was talking to him like I knew 100% he was mafia and he kept replying to me as if he knew I knew. Of course I play along while he's incriminating himself while doing that.

But here's the fun fact: The only time you have made any reference to Owen being scum mattering is when you tried to cash in on his scum flip, disregarding that he was aligned and there was no credit for voting him. It appears it only matters when it's a moment of opportunity for you.

Yes it only matters when it's a moment of opportunity for me. I don't need to point out things when there is not an opportunity to point them out because..

As town I avoid to go looking for reasons to defend myself as my pressure to stay alive isn't as high. I'm better off proving why someone else is mafia.

Corwin is 99.9% likely to be town now. Any arguments based on him being scum are not arguments I will take seriously.

[Crescent]

And yes, Owen being on Corwin virtually all day significantly increased the likelihood that Corwin was town the moment Owen flipped. You're probably the only person in the entire game who just flat out ignored this outright.

[Crescent]

If every living player asks me to replace out twice each, I will do so

Not happening. But you can shitpost more and I'll be happy again.

Every time NM shitposts, it gives me a temporary burst of seething rage at his very existence.

At least his most recent posts were actually making a point, though. Those didn't bother me.

[Crescent]

Corwin claimed scum to me on D1

Uh, no I didn't? What post did you and/whoever else think I scum claimed?

Oh don't get me wrong. I had you at very high scum equity yesterday. Your vote on Vivax and subsequent reply to Elsa did not read as anything that would come from town.

But things change, and now I would be legitimately shocked if you were scum. The primary issue I have with him is he's trying to act like yesterday is the only thing that has value in reading you. He's completely ignoring the night phase and he's completely ignoring day 2.

I am curious as to the answer he's going to give though.

[Crescent]

Sorry I was ready for that one, I knew you wouldn't be able to help yourself~

[Crescent]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Here, the team play part is the scum claim. Because he could just have called us mafia.

That was based off these posts:

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?#
VOTE: UNOwen

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?

VOTE: UNOwen

Scummy post.

UNVOTE: GeorgeBailey
VOTE: Corwinoid

If I look at Owens ISO again, I don't think Corwin had to overreact in that way. Crescent was after all still skirting by and Owen not calling her mafia, though he pinged her once.
Best would have just been to ignore the posts and not get emotional.

There's actually a natural flow though. It was quickly after this post that he started pursuing you for the first time in the game. Owen was dogging him from almost the first post of the game. Him being mad about it makes sense.

He said it was "starting to feel" like it, which indicates he was starting to think that you and Owen were scum together. This does not imply he was sure at the time you were. As bad as his argument on you was, this part of it actually flows well. Of all the scummy looking things he did around that time of the game, these specific lines you're pointing out are not among them.

It even fits with him prioritizing emotion over logic in the way he votes, as he recently proved with his vote on me. The argument you just made is actually a good look on him.

[Crescent]

If you think the likelihood is that Corwin and Vivax are both town, why is your vote still on Corwin?

[Crescent]

It's lovely to be told by the replacement my response is awful but to be given absolutely no reason why. Fits right in with this game.

Elsa is posting like she's waiting for something to happen instead of actually pushing on people herself. I feel no drive to do anything there at all.

Eiralox, the one person I could rely on to actually be high activity day 1, has gone missing.

Corwin is town who plays on bias instead of playing to win.

Gibus barely exists. NM doesn't exist. Goldfish didn't exist.

This game isn't worth even 1% of the energy and especially time I've put into it. I miss 2272. Games like this one are what drive me to begrudgingly rejoin that group of sexists I hail from.

I almost decided to put myself on VLA this morning, and I'm doing it now. I'm shutting the OCD off. I almost did this night 1, and I regret not doing so. Town is very likely not going to win this game anyway, and I knew this on day 1.

VLA for an unspecified amount of time. I won't be reading a post in this game in the meantime.

[Crescent]

I was actually originally planning to take two nights off, then immediately hammer myself if I found I was -1 when I came back. Then I decided sometime today that if I was gone 36 hours and actually got prodded for it I would very much not take that well, so I decided to come back sooner. I did not so much as glance in this topic during the past 31 or so hours.

And it had.... Just 81 posts during that time... Which is kinda proving my point that the game goes nowhere unless I force it to... But frankly, I'm done doing that.

Anyways I took a peek at Gera's ISO on a whim. It actually amuses me that just looking at

Gera's

ISO, it looks like the replacement has already voted for at least 3 separate people during this time and looks like he's just voting at random.

It's still kind of hard to see scum in that slot. That slot has been intentionally playing bonkers all game if it's scum.

I don't really care enough to really read into the posts I missed, so if there's anything actually important in them, either point me to it or maybe I'll catch it in a random ISO.

[Crescent]

...And Gibus has been gone for longer than I was, and has one post in the last 92 hours.

"Neat."

What a great ISO that was to catch up on.

[Crescent]

thanks gibus ; ) i haven't walked yet fml so quick questions before i do: Thoughts on Crescent, Toffee, gera and Elsa? Toffee wants you dead, right now you're second on my list(sorta) so would appreciate feedback.

Crescent was almost confTown to me so I;m surprised her wagon got to e-3

Oh hey stuff actually happened imma take a look before Synagogue.

Let's see if BBT's vote moved again~

[Crescent]

..I did not tell it to quote a post. It keeps doing that.

[Crescent]

You really can't have players like Gibus and NM making D3 in a game.

Ok scratch that I like the new guy already

[Crescent]

Not at all.

Literally couldn't give a single fuck what my predecessor did.

Good!

Because they did

nothing

. Like, they did even less than NM has.

[Crescent]

Oh and torn on Vivax. On one hand he probably isn't the right vote. Clinging onto me after that bad of an argument is probably stubborn town more than scum., buuuut if I apparantly made it to -3, he could just be hoping the train balloons again like the way he was clinging onto Corwin I mean, it wouldn't be a surprise if it did!

On the other hand I think I saw him actually defend me to BBT when reading Gera's ISO last night and that makes like... No sense at all to do that but still be on me.

I think it's what is called..

Curious

.


Corwin's like, the only one of the 4 people on that vote I logically trust to be town.

[Crescent]

I have 180d on Vivax and could elim him. Consider my vote there if we can hammer.

I really, really, really think Gibus is the play though.

VOTE: Gibus

Oh look it's the guy who called me scum based on Vivax being

so obviously town

when he joined now saying Vivax might be scum that's cute~

Why Gibus now remind me like is it just policy orrrrr

[Crescent]

Oh and get used to the snark that's the version of me you're getting now. Waaaaay less tryhard. Lots more needling and side commentary~

[Crescent]

I have a similar scum strategy of making everyone ignore any scummy thing my predecessor did and not explain it. When I see others do it I get paranoid.

Oh wait that reminds me I forgot to ask

Can one truly be scummy if one

never existed

?

[Crescent]

I like it already.

I'm almost completely useless this way but sure. Fits right in with this game <3

[Crescent]

Oh I know such a player!

Last time I replaced into a game I replaced him day 1 and immediately got attacked based on his tendency to replace out as scum. Guess what... He was~

Thanks for nothing!


But like a decent scum partner can just hand her an argument to use at... Some point. I dragged a first time newbie who was in way over his head over the finish line with me my last game and surely helping out Fish shouldn't be that hard.

[Crescent]

Oops I hit post too early but the point iiiissss if that slot is scum we should probably be looking at other low posters for the other.

[Crescent]

Last note before I go in:

In before Corwin gets triggered by my last two posts~

[Crescent]

Not_Mafia was prodded.

Ooooh yay

[Crescent]

You could see from thread flow that GB was about to be the guy coming under pressure from multiple directions and you jumped on that straight away with literally no reasoning.

Come to think of if, I feel like it wasn't the only time he did that.

Wait it isn't.

He popped in outta nowhere as a 4th vote on Corwin yesterday and then I *think* as a 4th vote on Vivax today. He's just been so inactive that with all the other inactives I've barely paid him any attention

I think he was 5 on GB though - I know I was 4.

[Crescent]

Wait Gibus didn't vote Vivax today who am I thinking of

Also

Corw v Vivax is 90% TvT.
I'm p sure scum picked sides somewhere in between.

Yep probably.

[Crescent]

Oooh wait now I remember, it was Gera.

And Vivax quickly countervoted.

[Crescent]

Ok Gibus I have a question. 10 posts after Vivax countervoted Gera, you voted Gera.

Are we ever going to like, learn why?

[Crescent]

Ok Gibus I have a question. 10 posts after Vivax countervoted Gera, you voted Gera.

Are we ever going to like, learn why?

Random from my poe pool lol.
I didn't want to get kicked due to inactivity.

...

Ok, whatever. Fits right in with this game.

What's interesting is what happened with the Elsa votes is it's actually more of a town tell for me (which will be learned whenever I die). I'm more likely to carelessly show my autism when I'm town.

I made 0 mental registry that all of those votes were on the same person because you didn't include the "Jay" that the other two did. Missing connections that obvious is right in my wheelhouse~


I do not remember Gibus questioning me at all on that read. A few other people did.

[Crescent]

Vivax is still scum

Ok boomer

[Crescent]

Do you really think it's not towny to doubt questionable reads and see what follows?

Nope. I'm saying it's

exactly

what town do and you haven't been questioning the right reads at all.

Are you saying Crescent's town read on you wasn't questionable? Because you didn't question it.

It's true that in hindsight his reaction was more of a "Huh. Neat."

Someone here gets that reference I think~

[Crescent]

Crescent, you have complained about votes being spread out in the game.

You seem to have an opportunity to create a second wagon. Why are you not taking it?

'Cause we have 2 1/2 days left, absolutely no one listened to my warnings about being so split yesterday, and I want Gibus to say more. I'm wondering if scum flat out admits to making a virtually random vote day 2. What I'd like for him is an explanation for all the votes he's made, as I do feel like there is a pattern of his votes feeling both opportunistic and underexplained.

I'm done shouting from the rooftops this game. You might be the first person to actually seriously indicate you were listening to it.

[Crescent]

How did this day suddenly turn to me being -3 and just as suddenly turn into two guys voting for each other and vying for my hand?

This entire progression feels unnatural.

Gibus why did you vote BBT? I think his inquiry was rational.

[Crescent]

Also why am I "near-conf" town to you because I don't believe anyone actually thinks I'm scum (emotion voting is the death of many a town), but there is nowhere near that level of confidence anywhere else.

[Crescent]

That reminds me I was consistently Clidd's #1 town on day 1 so that's not entirely true.

It certainly is today, though!

[Crescent]

Also I have decided that I will reply to all contentless NM posts by mocking him from now on.

Enjoy the show <3

[Crescent]

How did this day suddenly turn to me being -3 and just as suddenly turn into two guys voting for each other and vying for my hand?

This entire progression feels unnatural.

Gibus why did you vote BBT? I think his inquiry was rational.

I've definitely answered all of his queries sufficiently, but he makes no attempt to reconsider. Town is never that confident on scumreads.
It seems like he's doing everything in his power to throw hade at my iso (try hard entry for example, which obviously isn't genuine town thought process)

Oh I missed #1349. I was first post at top of this page and never thought to look back.

[Crescent]

Wait no I wasn't I was first post last page

[Crescent]

But why point to Owen questioning me on it (and he's not the only one) when asked to show yourself questioning it?

[Crescent]

But why point to Owen questioning me on it (and he's not the only one) when asked to show yourself questioning it?

I mean, there's no point is there. Clarifying my intent was enough in that scenario.

But... In no way did you clarify your "intent" to question me. All you clarified was Owen's intent to question me.

Also still waiting for what makes me "near-conf" town.


These questions are softballs~

[Crescent]

Alsooooo between me and Corwin now I'm wondering who Owen questioned 'cause I forgot about that and that makes two town he questioned early.

[Crescent]

If NM engagement level depends on his alignment then my own experience suggests he's mafia, but somehow I doubt that's the case.

Hm, Owen completely backed off of me in #161. Well played, Owen. Does little but make me look bad if you ever flip.

Also #306 is interesting and possibly the closest thing to "signaling" in this entire ISO.

Calls NM scun based on "experience", and just as quickly dismisses NM being scum for... No reason whatsoever. This post has no reason to exist.

[Crescent]

By intent, I mean clarify whether my vote was random or not.

Do you really think it's not towny to doubt questionable reads and see what follows?

Nope. I'm saying it's

exactly

what town do and you haven't been questioning the right reads at all.

Are you saying Crescent's town read on you wasn't questionable? Because you didn't question it.

quote="In post 1370, gibus"]By intent, I mean clarify whether my vote was random or not.[/quote]
That wasn't the question.

This

was the question

[Crescent]

To meow or not to meow..

That

... Is the question.

[Crescent]

Wait that's not a question at all

Meow.

[Crescent]

Also am I ever gonna get an answer to why I'm near-conf town because you kiiiiinda seem to be completely ignoring that.

[Crescent]

Eh. This seems more fun anyway.

VOTE: Gibus

Also we're gonna need better from you than "vote Gibus and watch BBT and Crescent grill him".

"More fun" is not a pro-town reason for voting. Especially when two players are already voting each other.

[Crescent]

And frankly I don't think Vivax or Corwin is good anymore, Toffee is being useful, NotMaf feels like a cop out, and the rest are townie enough.

Gibus is my main choice besides Gera.

Yep this is what was needed. NM is only ever a vote today if we just collectively have no idea who the hell to vote. Hopefully he just gets vigged tonight.

The problem is if he doesn't get vigged tonight, we basically have to decide when to policy him because he cannot be allowed to survive until endgame. He's either scum or he's just going to hand scum the game with his contentless posts.

[Crescent]

A 4th vote that comes out of nowhere has natural scum equity, though doesn't warrant a countervote on it's own. The biggest issue I had with Vivax's vote jumping is he was constructing a team that made absolutely no sense and refused to even try to make any sense of it.

[Crescent]

Vivax is still scum

I am assuming you must have something tucked up your sleeve to be like this. Because you are just being impossible.
This does fill me with some hope though

Well, at least he got prodded this time.

It's a start~

[Crescent]

I'd cut crescent some slack, but I had my hand forced and had to find someone not Corwin or not_mafia. Pun intended. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also I misread this post originally based on the first line.

This post is horrifyingly bad regardless of alignment wow.

"I was forced to actually be active and contribute to the game, so I'm voting the person who forced me to do it out of spite."

[Crescent]

A 4th vote that comes out of nowhere has natural scum equity, though doesn't warrant a countervote on it's own. The biggest issue I had with Vivax's vote jumping is he was constructing a team that made absolutely no sense and refused to even try to make any sense of it.

My vote did not come from nowhere, if you think that go back and look at my posts. Fromm post 45 onwards I am looking at vivax heavily before voting them

Oh yeah he's the guy you called "performative" like two seconds in the the game

[Crescent]

I will note that you barely even mention the guy again until #980. I wouldn't really say there's an established pattern until that sequence of posts leading up to the vote.

Though my memory partially me - I remembered your vote coming on him quicker than it did.

[Crescent]

...My memory partially failed me and my typing sure partially failed me there.

[Crescent]

That is...not a reason to town read someone.

What about his tone says town? And what about his entrance did you think was unlikely to come from scum?

Well that's an interesting first post to peek in at let's see what it's about~

[Crescent]

To speak my current peace:

I still think Vivax and Corwin are TvT, but I concede that if there's scum there it's Vivax.

I would be okay with a NotMaf Elim but it's not a priority.

I want more from Alex and Toffee or they'll go back into the scum pile.

My elims today besides NotMaf would be possibly Vixax (though the one I'd probably fight about), Gibus, or Gera. The other 5 I don't wanna launch today at all.

So basically if I have to vote today my vote will be on (maybe) Vivax, NotMaf, Gera, and Gibus wagons.

More from Toffee in what regard? He's already done more than half the game ever has.

[Crescent]

With 2 days left, I expect the same final crunch we had day 1 to happen again. Maybe even the 8 wagons too. Tho with only 10 alive that becomes significantly harder to do.

I think we can at least agree who we are NOT eliminating today?

Nobody's really going for Alex, Eira, or me today, so I think we can take those 3 out. Funnily enough the three of them are also the only ones not getting voted in the last VC either.

Corwin is more townread then Vivax who is more likely to get elimed between the two so he's safe too. Seems the Crescent stuff has also died now.

So that leaves us with Gibus, Toffee, NotMaf, Vivax, and Gera. Minus Toffee so far it matches what I think we should be between.

If your vote isn't on one of those you should probably get moving soon.

The Crescent stuff was more a byproduct of people being pissed off at me than anything <3

Things have calmed down!

[Crescent]

My new theory was basically Crescent trying to save you guys as her possible traitor buddy, but then Owen decided he didn't want to live anymore anyway and quickhammered to not get any associations with people on or off the wagon. The only thing I'm positive on now is the only useful info he gave was that your town.

I'm gonna be honest I don't have a clue what this is actually saying.

[Crescent]

I read gibus cluelesness in 885 & 886 as townie. Overall it's not an easy read as he asks a lot and writes little, I just don't think the tone and his entrance are likely to be come from mafia.

I get 885, but I don't like 887 and I didn't like it at the time. There's a smugness to it that's very easy to manufacture.

Gibus has been... Pretty well inconsistent, but there's one thing I definitely liked from Gibus today. Post #1300. People were saying they might be town/town, but that post went an extra mile by pointing out scum was behind the scenes of it today - A sentiment I very much agree with. The flames of Vivax/Corwin were very much being fanned early in the day and it would have been easy for scum to jump in on it.

With the way this game has developed, I could very much see scum's initial gameplan today have been to knock out Corwin. This makes Vivax's non-vote on Corwin despite still pressuring him, and Elsa's insta-vote on Corwin... Interesting.

When Owen's flip made Corwin's vote taper off (as most people no longer wanted to vote Corwin), suddenly Vivax gets a bomb of votes (4 in a short span of time) as the next best target assuming Corwin is town - A very possible target of opportunity. Vivax's early day 2 does not look good at all.

If the assumption that both are town is true, there is virtually certainly at least one scum behind the dual trains. #1300 feels like Gibus making an astute observation that feels like a genuine "course correction" type post. It's easy to say, but he also didn't have to say it. I feel like the simplicity of the post alongside the point it makes is the best post he's made today and possibility the best looking post he's made all game.

[Crescent]

Did you really just pull the gender card on me.

Really

[Crescent]

Oh and if I get shot tonight if there's anyone who doesn't have a vote right now who might be scum it's Elsa by the way.

'Cause I can play the theory game too!


You thought George was your aligned partner, which is why you didn't seem to care even slightly which of Corwin or Owen was voted off - Just so long as it wasn't George. You even went as far as to say he "crumbed" PR, but only admitted you were lying after Owen hammered.

You were set on voting off Corwin before the day started, and didn't stop to factor in what Owen's flip meant. This is why you quick voted him so fast and had to be forced to acknowledge the vote wasn't happening. Vivax, who is town, was all over Corwin, but didn't feel the need to vote him immediately. He even thought he did when he didn't!

You feel like you can't join the vote on Vivax from Corwin, so you pull the "my vote my choice" cringe to stick lazily on Corwin. You wait for a safe place to put your vote that might actually take off.

The moment Gibus gets a sniff, you hop on because its "fun". You feel you established on him yesterday and did not need to explain yourself jumping on him today. You sit back and watch BBT and I grill him for you.


I think every single part of my theory is actually rather reasonable.

[Crescent]

Oh I've been sitting on my sus of Elsa since well before I even took that day off.

But the day is late, and I trust her even less than I did before. A lot of her "contributions" today are

watching other people

grill people.


If she wants to throw down, I'll throw down. This is the kinda stuff I actually enjoy~

[Crescent]

By the way that is I believe the third time she has leveled the accusation of being scum who thought Corwin or Owen was my aligned day 1 and has given zero in terms of actual evidence to back up her statement. It's tripe. If GB actually does anything or claims properly, I'm back on Corwin, and the only person Owen might've ever done anything to signal was NM of all people.

Damnit I was not planning on going into serious mode at all anymore this game. I actually think getting gender carded may have tirggered me.

[Crescent]

Elsa, do you feel Toffee is town?

P-edit: I’ve had the vibe she’s sitting back and waiting for other people to make wagons for her since very early and I haven’t forgotten her defensive OMGUS reaction to me voting her D1. But I’m still mixed there, think there are more suitable launches today.

Your vibe is correct.

And it's gotten worse on day 2 - Especially given she immediately tried to murder Corwin, and has basically sat back ever since.

[Crescent]

Elsa, do you feel Toffee is town?

P-edit: I’ve had the vibe she’s sitting back and waiting for other people to make wagons for her since very early and I haven’t forgotten her defensive OMGUS reaction to me voting her D1. But I’m still mixed there, think there are more suitable launches today.

Your vibe is correct.

And it's gotten worse on day 2 - Especially given she immediately tried to murder Corwin, and has basically sat back ever since.

[Crescent]

Elsa, do you feel Toffee is town?

P-edit: I’ve had the vibe she’s sitting back and waiting for other people to make wagons for her since very early and I haven’t forgotten her defensive OMGUS reaction to me voting her D1. But I’m still mixed there, think there are more suitable launches today.

I feel like Toffe's player slot is either town or has been just playing a completely bonkers scumgame that makes no sense.

I mean the latter

is

possible but I need to see more from that slot first.

[Crescent]

And you want

my

evidence?

Spoiler:

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Specifically with Elsa she wanted to know my opinion earlier and I told her I suspected Corwin without elaborating. Since she didn't press me further I'm wondering if she just accepted me saying that or if she's actually been following my posts and has an opinion on my opinion.

Which I'm still looking for btw

@Elsa

.

Re-reading your ISO again kinda had the opposite effect of what you wanted and now your on my lower end while reading Corwin moved him up. Like... Sometimes I get sticking to the first vote but tunneling so hard day 1? Nah.

From a cursory ISO:

I think Elsa fell off a cliff too much for my taste which is in contrast to earlier activity.
Picking gibus and N_M as scum also looks baddish, they are in my launch-bait category, and Elsa didn't really look like they were putting in much effort after that list.
The whole Corwin/GB notion seems to fly by Elsa.

I put those 2 in a separate category from the people I actually thought were scummy/needed more content for a reason. Those were the acceptable policy ones.

My activity fell off a cliff for OOG work reasons. I started the game on my vacation so now I'm back to a normal busy time. Will be at work again today like I said yesterday but I am paying attention still.

Remaking my list now.

Townist:
Eiralox (definitely way better the before)
Vivax (seems to care enough about town to look into everything)
Alex (felt townie when fighting me)
Clidd (most gut but I think I played with them 2 years ago? Just feels good)

Null:
Crescent (down from before but definitely not killing today)
Corwin (Middle of the pack now so way better)
George (townier then the 3 below)
Goldfish (feels just... Like I haven't actually noticed a game changing post and feels like a wallflower))

Scummy:
Gera (don't know but they haven't rung townie immediately to me either so I'll trust the majority.)
Owen (hasn't responded well to anything really. Too obsessed)

Wouldn't care if dead but not for being evil. Just apathetic to it:
NotMaf (he is who he is)
Gibus (the guy I feel we should compromise on if we don't have a conclusion like my original plan stated)

That's my list. The big 3 I wanna focus on day 2 will probably be what's up with Goldfish Alex or Cres. Getting the alignment of those 3 solved will definitely help us solve whatever partners we can find.

Town investigative would be good on one of those 3 or maybe me/Eira. Checking a lower tier slot feels like a waste so definitely one of us 5.

George is "neutral" here

Spoiler:

I mean. Have they both really done anything good? At least when I saw George interact with Alex earlier I got a good feeling. The most I remember from Gibus is a naked vote on me after copying my post, the VC, and now hopping onto Corwin.

It's not an important question to me since they're both low and can change spots. But sorry if me not responding makes it seem like I'm avoiding it cuz I don't wanna answer it.

"George interaction with Alex gave me a good feeling" George had NOT POSTED ONCE between these two posts.

Spoiler:

Rather solve Corwin or Owen by eliming one of them tbh. Owen for doing nothing besides focusing on Corwin or Corwin for that weird Vivax thing. The Corwin one tho has the benefit of maybe being too stupid to be scum?

I won't vote George today. Doesn't feel right.

"I want to kill Corwin or Owen today, I don't care which. Just not George.

George has 1 content post, a spew of fluff, and a vote on Owen between 726 and 759. No reason is given for this stance. This is after a series of posts shading Corwin and setting herself up to vote post. This was one of the group of posts I pointed out that made it feel clear at the time she did not care which of the two were voted.

Spoiler:

The progression of posts 705, 759, 762, and 767 is bad and makes me question if Elsa is scum and both Corwin and Owen are town, since she apparently has little concern over which of the two get voted off so long as it's one of them.

My post noting her posts. This doesn't even include #773, which fits in the same progression as not feeling like she cares who dies.

Of course Cres decided to ignore the crumbs from our PR and made him reveal. Great going there.

A flat out lie to protect George after he claims. She is questioned on this repeatedly.

Of course Cres decided to ignore the crumbs from our PR and made him reveal. Great going there.

It's interesting how GB has 6 votes on him, yet Elsa is consistently blaming me and only me for him having a train.

Because you just made the entire town flip on a dime to a guy you admitted had less scum equity then Corwin or Owen. And as someone who rolls scum more often then most, I've picked up noticing PRs pretty well. That's why I was against this to start with.

Doubles down on the lie.

Spoiler:

So Elsa, when did he apparently breadcrumb detective, since you seem to be the only one in the game who thinks he did?

Oh that was hogwash. I just wanted you to take like an hour to look for it or something so you wouldn't kill him.

He did play like a standard investigator PR tho. That was enough of a sign to me NOT to go there.

But yeah I'm getting Owen tomorrow. Nobody hammers there before we actually get to talk it out.

Admits it's a lie after he's hammered. Says she's killing Owen. Owen flips scum, and she guns Corwin? This doesn't flow at all.


During this later time are repeated posts that either shade me, demonize me, or both, for pushing the George vote.


I could probably do more, but I'm getting paranoid of somehow losing this page so...