Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[Ausuka]

I'm a miller >.>

VOTE: Datisi

[Ausuka]

"bruh" is how I feel and will leave it there

[Ausuka]

hi Ari! I would ask if you rolled lovers with dats but that's not normal unfortunately

[Ausuka]

I mean, I knew the miller claim would look suspicious and I'm willing to take some flak for it but

I know we probably won't vote the miller claim day 1 but I do think Ausuka's reaction to rolling miller seems a tad overblown here.

How is it overblown lmfao I literally just said 'I'm a miller'

VOTE: Xayah

[Ausuka]

I have an idea, hear me out. The thing is, scamper's avatar is too cute. It's too powerful. If he's scum, we're literally never going to catch him because people will be about to vote and then they'll look at that cute little cat and go "aww" and then not have the heart to go through with it. So what I propose is that we eliminate him now before he has a chance to post again. I've run the numbers on expected win percentages and there's no time to explain it in detail, but trust me, it's the mechanically optimal play.

this is a VERY convincing argument but unfortunately I scumread Xayah here. However I am willing to policy lim scamper on d2. Unless I get compromised by the cat's cuteness

[Ausuka]

Phoenix, didn't you say my claim was NAI? That doesn't sound like you get where she's coming from.

[Ausuka]

the 3 posts talking about it as if it's the worst role in the world

This literally never happened

[Ausuka]

I guess I also don't think Ausuka claims miller in the manner she does - I have a different mental model in my head about how she would claim miller if she were a miller.

??????

[Ausuka]

i am!

i kinda think phoenix is townie

Disagree so far
38 struck me as a little lamist.

I think meg is town, I thought phoenix's 40 was fairly town sounding but agree about 38 so I like meg seeing that too

[Ausuka]

What about my post do you think needs elaboration? I thought I explained myself fine. Meg is seeing what I'm seeing, I think that makes them more likely to be approaching the game with an uninformed mindset.

[Ausuka]

I guess I also don't think Ausuka claims miller in the manner she does - I have a different mental model in my head about how she would claim miller if she were a miller.

??????

I think if you were a miller you would've had a different opening.

It feels like a gambit.

I'm trying to ask why you don't think I would open with "I'm miller" as miller

[Ausuka]

Do you think questioning me about whether mindmelding is a good towntell is going to help solve my alignment?

[Ausuka]

I feel like it shouldn't be difficult to believe that a townie might townread someone who shares their perspective and says what they're thinking before they say it. This line of questioning feels like busywork to me, honestly.

[Ausuka]

but datisi is my bff

[Ausuka]

also my two scumreads are on that wagon

[Ausuka]

I don't think claiming miller would be funny and I'm not going to retract my claim.

I was perplexed why you were asking the question because I think the question sounded like busywork, given that my read wasn't even naked and the question didn't dig any deeper into it or respond to what I wrote. I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with my read on Meg, but again I didn't get the vibes you were approaching the conversation with the mentality you were trying to catch scum which I didn't like.

Again, I've already explained the read on Xayah. If you think the explanation is somehow inefficient that's fine, but it seems like what you're actually doing is asking questions to look protown without really caring about what you're asking about.

[Ausuka]

i think xayah is town because i struggle seeing scum have the 45 into 48 progression that she did. like, if she was gonna try to claim ausuka is scummy for making 3 posts about miller being the worst role in the world, which is false, i feel like she doesn't then immediately back down from it once she's questioned on it. if she's scum, she knew she was talking bullshit with the claim in 45; and if she knew that, i don't think she backs down from it at first sign of struggle.

I don't think she knew she was talking bullshit with the claim in 45, even if she's scum. I think her making that mistake makes it more likely she's scum because it indicates she isn't really trying to read my posts and sort me.

[Ausuka]

datisi feels town i guess

[Ausuka]

idk maybe i'm just salty about being pushed for something that didn't happen and her calling me overbearing for pointing it out

VOTE: Phoenix

[Ausuka]

I mean, I knew the miller claim would look suspicious and I'm willing to take some flak for it but

I know we probably won't vote the miller claim day 1 but I do think Ausuka's reaction to rolling miller seems a tad overblown here.

How is it overblown lmfao I literally just said 'I'm a miller'

VOTE: Xayah

the 3 posts talking about it as if it's the worst role in the world

This literally never happened

I think this makes it pretty clear why I scumread Xayah???

To clarify - she pushed me for something that didn't happen and I thought that showed she didn't care to sort me properly and that's scum indicative.

[Ausuka]

someone who got huffy and upset over being called out in a game of mafia for their posting.

This never happened either?

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't say 'maybe I'm just salty' is the same as being 'huffy and upset' but like whatever.

I wouldn't say I have a read on Aristeia? I don't think her push on me is fully unreasonable but I haven't seen anything town indicative for her.

[Ausuka]

To clarify - she pushed me for something that didn't happen and I thought that showed she didn't care to sort me properly and that's scum indicative.

I don't think you can call 2 posts in which she explains how you're overreacting pushing. Sure, she implied voting you in the first post, but I think that's overwritten by the fact that at the end of the day she didn't vote you, or SR you, for that matter (at least she didn't state it explicitly).

The next question is if that wasn't a push, why point this out in the first place? I don't have an answer to that, though.

If she didn't care to sort you, I don't think she would have backed down as easily as she did, that's my problem with that reasoning.

I don't really understand your points here - she didn't vote me but I definitely feel it was a push anyway and I feel like it was heavily implied she was scumreading me. I think there's nothing stopping mafia from backing down there? I don't think the backing down is actively scummy either I think it could come from either alignment.

[Ausuka]

Phoenix's persistence is slightly towny, I think. As scum he would probably recognize that he isn't really getting townread for his approach and may change tactics. I do agree that he sounds a little stiff, but that may just be a personality or writing style trait.

persistence in doing what, exactly?

He's moving things forward but only along one path. If he were trying to look towny by having a lot of content, I'd expect him to be tackling different subjects and angles. His continued arguing what is basically the same point with Ausuka isn't really doing anything to make him look better on a surface level. To me it comes across as a tunneled townie.

I understand where you're coming from but not sure I agree - I think Phoenix hasn't played the game in a while and as a result it's possible that he wouldn't manufacture content in the best way to be townread? Like, I think he could just be scum making a mistake, and I find it harder to read town motivation into his posting. I'm not sure what he could be tunneled about in this stage of the game.

[Ausuka]

Also, what I'm saying

did

happen you can legit read the first few posts in the game for yourself. I'm not backing down from the statements I've said either, I still think it's quite a wolfy opening but I don't feel like getting into a battle of words with someone who got

huffy and upset over being called out in a game of mafia for their posting

. It's a waste of my time so I moved onto something I found more pressing. Did the anger make me weaken the scumread? Yeah, because it starts to seem a bit personality based, but I think Datisi's angle on Ausuka isn't W/W and I think it felt like a TMI sort of angle. AKA: If there's a wolf in Ausuka and Datisi's prob prob Datisi atm.

I also don't think Meg/Other anime A name are W/W don't have much stock in their statements alone though besides "vibes"

i greatly disagree with both your earlier characterizion of ausuka and this one - she made 2 very short posts that didn't say much at all and you called it "overblown", now you accuse her of being "huffy and upset" because she (rightly imo) pushed back against you for saying that, but again the scale of the response is really not at all what you're describing here...

it just feels incredibly misrep-y

I agree with this but not sure how to read it? I feel like there's not much point in specifically trying to misrep me like that as mafia when it's so obviously wrong so like it's probably NAI and she genuinely believes it?

[Ausuka]

This post is important

I would probably be switching my vote to Don here but I think they're at E-2 already and it seems a little twisted to put them at E-1 for suggesting that we put someone else at E-1. It does feel like they're kind of all over the place and I struggle to see a consistent town mindset. That makes me think they could be intentionally trying to look like the town they describe as "playing however they want". The issue is that I don't understand the motivations behind anything they're doing, so it just feels random for the sake of chaos.

Here is an attempt to soft buddy me. Coral knows i am under fire, and by saying they wont vote for me theres an attempt here. Of course by saying they're still suspicious of me there is no concrete stance taken here. What they are doing is to signal to me "everyone suspects you, but i can be open minded". And as scum, they know i'm town, and would want to leave a positive impression on me without going too hard on buddying.

Ok, but why is this possibility probable compared to Coral just not wanting to put you at L1 so early? I don't think you not liking her refusing to L1 you was unpredictable and I think if you're trying to buddy someone falling them 'all over the place' is likely to be counterproductive. Basically I don't understand your thought process here

Coral

I see her point for not wanting to put Don at E-1 but I do think it's also an easy excuse for not wanting to take a stance, as Don implied. I really don't like the reasoning behind the 180 on Aristeia. The tone in her posts seems genuine, though, and I don't thing she's faking it. Still, I tend to read people by their actions more than by their tone, so:

Coral - scumlean

Xayah

I didn't think much of the accusation against Ausuka early in the game, but given that Xayah later admitted herself that she SR-ed Ausuka for that and that she stands by it, it rubs me the wrong way. I'm tempted to believe that Xayah doubling down on her SR on Ausuka based on Ausuka's first posts is town-indicative because it could be easier from a scum!Xayah POV to just say that it wasn't a push. Though as I mentioned in a previous post, that begs the question if it wasn't meant to be a push, why bother in the first place? So Xayah backing down here wouldn't raise less questions that her doubling down on her Ausuka SR, IMO, so I still think scum!Xayah is a definite possibility. I also echo what Scamper said in 130. The vote on Meg is strange as well.

Xayah - scumlean

I think I'm more confident in my Xayah scumlean as of now.

VOTE: Xayah

I think I understand your townreads but both of the scumreads confuse me.

If you can see her point for not wanting to E-1 Done, why do you scumread it? Like, you bring up the possibility that she could just be using it to shirk responsibility but never explain why that's likely when you acknowledge a very reasonable town motivation. The rest of the read is fine although I'd like an explanation as to why her 180 on Ari was bad, I thought it was mildly town.

The read on Xayah feels scummy because I think the uncertainty feels kind of excessive and performative. Like, you spend most of this post talking about something which seems to be NAI at worst for Xayah by your own account, and I think it's still not super clear why you're scumreading Xayah here. I'll be the first to say all of Xayah's interactions with me are baffling but I'd like to hear why you think it's scum motivated?

[Ausuka]

reading along the first half of page 6, i am not sure i get either coral or xayah votes.

it's like. i think coral's reason for switching off aristeia is *fine*, and i understand what she was trying to say when she said "tunnelled". maybe it's not the traditional use of that word, but it seemed obvious to me it was meant as "pho is only focusing here" rather than "pho is trying to fuckign murder ausuka". i don't really agree that that's townie, but. the "i changed my mind and ari is town!" did feel a bit ~performative~ to me, but i think performative-scum would've put more effort in than just saying "ye lol idk gut".

also yes i hate xayah misreps of ausuka. but i also don't think they're scummy because i struggle to see what is scum!xayah trying to achieve there. like, she's not pushing ausuka. she keeps insisting ausuka had an overblown reaction despite the entire game telling her otherwise. the only scum motivation i see here is wifom trying to purposefully go against the thread and like idk.

I agree with this I think

I like datisi and coral, Xayah is more around the nullish area for me rn

[Ausuka]

Who are we killing?

You

[Ausuka]

Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run

You want an e-1 wagon on scamper because you want to analyze the wagon even though you can make a case? That doesn't sound pro town.

I mean, even if you think it's anti town does that make Done mafia?

[Ausuka]

Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run

You want an e-1 wagon on scamper because you want to analyze the wagon even though you can make a case? That doesn't sound pro town.

I mean, even if you think it's anti town does that make Done mafia?

[Ausuka]

and of course people are calling that entrance fine when i dont really agree...

I agree with this? Like maybe I'm biased because phoenix was already my biggest scumread but Galron feels a bit artificial to me.

[Ausuka]

Dats i don't really understand your read progression on coral?

[Ausuka]

Megs do you have scumreads other than Ari right now (if no has your Ari read developed)

I like scamper I think

[Ausuka]

Dats i don't really understand your read progression on coral?

yes

thank you datisi

[Ausuka]

people don't answer my questions anymore or respond to me. it makes me sad

I think I need a more intimidating avatar. Sara Chidouin is too nice

[Ausuka]

Dats i don't really understand your read progression on coral?

yes

can you elaborate?

[Ausuka]

lol

[Ausuka]

why are you townreading me

[Ausuka]

oh hi done, did you ever answer that question I asked you? I can't remember you doing so but I guess I could have missed it

The heatwave got to 40 degrees here, I survived by camping by the fan. It's like 15 degrees here now which is optimal temperature imo

[Ausuka]

ok that's fair, I didn't really have much reason to ask the question honestly I just feel kind of disengaged

[Ausuka]

I townlean datisi, coral, scamper, done and meg roughly in that order. mostly these are just vibes based but I can try and iso people and elaborate on what I'm feeling if people want that

Ari and Xayah are both meh

Galron is scummy

[Ausuka]

ari is also lowkey townie. the agruing with xayah doesn't do much for her position in game which like. idk why scum!her would care kinda. yes this is directly going against what i said earlier about their convo, fight me

this is interesting because I got the opposite vibe kinda. I didn't feel like the conversation about read rate was particularly interesting or advancing to the gamestate and felt fillery. But also I don't really have meta with her so like, is she just not like that as scum?

Pedit: bless the weather gods

[Ausuka]

Dats i don't really understand your read progression on coral?

yes

thank you datisi

also to circle back to this
there was no progression
i realized coral is doing A Thing that i often do as scum
her reply is *fine* i guess, i don't get much from it which is meh

this is still kinda vagueposting but it's the sort of vagueposting I could see coming from town datisi who doesn't want to like reveal his reads? like I feel like scum datisi would probably be more focused on providing a very reasonable sounding progression for me to nod my head at

That being said I won't townread you for doing this any more dats you should stop being vague

[Ausuka]

that would be so cool

[Ausuka]

also Ari you have been vagueposting pushing me since page 1. can you be less vague please. thanks

[Ausuka]

That's because it kind of was! I felt a town vibe first and then tried to figure out where it was coming from after. I'm not terribly convinced it was a great reason, but it was fun to explore!

As town my mind is often a jumble of mixed-up thoughts and feelings. As scum I take care to express my thoughts clearly, which is easy to do because they're fake, and have clean and planned-out progressions. I wouldn't ever have reason to express a thought that I wasn't already confident I could state in a cohesive way and back up later, unless maybe put on the spot by pressure and I need to come up with a read on a partner. I think that's one of my weaknesses.

ok....i'm not really sure this changes my view, though

Okay. What about 123? What do you think is my mindset or motivation behind making that post as scum? Can you explain more where the feeling of "off" is coming from, and why that's more likely to come from scum?

@ausuka, this

when someone is correctly scumreading me, the thing i love to do is just continuously ask them what feels off and what do they not like about it and etc etc, and when they give a response continue arguing why they're Wrong, Actually

I mean this is fair and makes sense

Although I feel like that is also how I tend to handle incorrect scumreads on me as town tbh

Pedit: I mean you just pushed me as part of a ~reasons~ team I feel like you have done the ~reasons~ thing before but sorry if I'm wrong

[Ausuka]

I mean having just checked your ISO you're saying I'm scum because my energy felt off on page 1 and there's nothing else?

[Ausuka]

I lowkey think maybe the scum team is just Ausuka/Datisi for ~reasons~ but I want Dats to roll town with me finally so I am going to hope it's just no true ^^

You hit the nail on the head. What would the reasons you mentioned be? Gut, any posts? Because you're correct, but i wanna see you solve this yourself first.

This feels so outrageously confident for absolutely no reason that it is probably town

[Ausuka]

If she didnt want to put me on L-1 or pressure me in general, why make a post saying she was suspicious of me? And her calling me all over the place is better than calling me nefarious, it implies shes unsure even though everything else in that post screamed "yeah dong is most likely scum"

I mean, you realise some people are just ideologically opposed to putting people at L1 yes

Regardless this response is satisfactory re: your alignment I suppose

Pedit :<

[Ausuka]

Spoiler: super secret reason I am comfortable talking with datisi!!!

we are friends

[Ausuka]

current vibes are that galron and aristeia are wolves

would wagon either, not particularly interested in any other wagons

[Ausuka]

it's fine I'm a N2 combined bodyguard vigilante

[Ausuka]

I'm willing to give you/ausuka 1 shot to push anywhere today to hit a scum, myself included but you both have to get yeeted d2 if you miss

I think this is a reasonable compromise.

VOTE: Aristeia

[Ausuka]

Last game I played with Aristeia I was impressed by her play as town

I'm not quite sure what this is but I think at the very least she's played with me enough to realise I'm not good enough for BoP

It's a relatively risk free proposal for her because Datisi decided she's town for Meta

[Ausuka]

Maybe I just rolled miller


Like as scum I literally never claim miller, not for strategic reasons but because I would never involve myself in all this claim speculation BS voluntarily

[Ausuka]

Come on you know what I meant lol...

[Ausuka]

And I don't believe you genuinely thought "maybe I just rolled miller" meant I was unsure about whether I rolled miller, so I guess we're even

[Ausuka]

I obviously was saying that Done's suggestion that me and Datisi were the scumteam were based on the premise that I was scum and did not actually roll miller and this premise was unjustified...

[Ausuka]

Like town you can't actually genuinely believe that's a scumslip

[Ausuka]

Datisi are you seeing this shit

[Ausuka]

I agree! Blindly trusting a miller claim is a bad idea

Calling me scum and justifying it with nothing but the miller claim is an equally bad idea

[Ausuka]

Like literally just ignore the miller claim unless you're a Rolecop that is all I am asking

[Ausuka]

Because I'm not convinced you're scum? It's day 1 everyone is like 50% scum at most

[Ausuka]

I am incredulous at this push you're making, certainly

[Ausuka]

I lowkey think maybe the scum team is just Ausuka/Datisi for ~reasons~ but I want Dats to roll town with me finally so I am going to hope it's just no true ^^

I don't understand how you got from this level of confidence to basically being willing to bet the game on it if you're town

[Ausuka]

I'm not even pushing for you to get flipped today.

I am offering you/dats a bop shot.

it's not the same thing

You are pushing that if we miselim on day 1, which is something happens most of the time, me and my top townread should be eliminated

Why would I ever be okay with that

[Ausuka]

You are pushing that if we miselim on day 1, which is something happens most of the time, me and my top townread should be eliminated

so decline if you don't feel comfortable with your accuracy?

or take a shot on me!scum if you feel confident in it.

it doesn't matter to me.

It didn't really sound like something optional but like
Yes I decline obviously

[Ausuka]

The first post is obviously hyperbolic because what you said made exactly zero sense in any way

I am indeed not sure why Dats is townreading you here but that doesn't mean I am especially certain you are scum because that's just not how day 1 reads work

[Ausuka]

Like I'm not deluded enough to think if I scumread someone or day 1 they're guaranteed to flip scum or something??

[Ausuka]

If so, yeah basically? Why would I ever want to die especially when town only has two miselims

If datisi still thinks you're town I could be convinced to go after Galron

It would take a lot of convincing for me to want to Lim anyone else

[Ausuka]

I think you are a good player and that your read on me is incredibly strange. You've acted convinced that I'm scum the entire game for vibes or reasons that make no sense to me at all, and it feels like you're not really even considering town!ausuka and just trying to push me

I think you acting so incredibly sure of a scumteam proposal that was originally worded uncertainly, in the middle of day 1, is a very strange progression especially based on something like "these two people who are friends are comfortable talking to each other"

[Ausuka]

I would probably have a hard time posting at this level of content and energy as scum

Regardless I wouldn't scumread you for Nullreading me or scumreading me for reasons that made sense - it's the way you push without showing genuine doubt or consideration and the points that you make while doing so that make me think this is a bad faith push.

pedit: But like. Most elims on day 1 are town. You're very generous and all but in practice that is going to lead to town losing most of the time

[Ausuka]

If you're town you don't seem to understand that like

I can scumread you by thinking that you are more likely to flip mafia than anyone else in this list

And also acknowledge I am operating on limited information and every player in this game is more likely to be town than mafia regardless of my reasoning.

[Ausuka]

Regardless I wouldn't scumread you for Nullreading me or scumreading me for reasons that made sense - it's the way you push without showing genuine doubt or consideration and the points that you make while doing so that make me think this is a bad faith push.

I don't think this is accurate in any way.

Well having just been accused for scumslipping just because I responded "maybe I just rolled miller" to wild speculation about how I planned a miller claim with datisi in the scumchat pregame, I think it is accurate in every way.

[Ausuka]

Regardless I wouldn't scumread you for Nullreading me or scumreading me for reasons that made sense - it's the way you push without showing genuine doubt or consideration and the points that you make while doing so that make me think this is a bad faith push.

I don't think this is accurate in any way.

Well having just been accused for scumslipping just because I responded "maybe I just rolled miller" to wild speculation about how I planned a miller claim with datisi in the scumchat pregame, I think it is accurate in every way.

if I wanted to express 0 doubt in your guilt and yeet you today, I would simply do that.

I am giving you an opportunity for bop because I am uncertain.

for you to turn around and claim that I am scum for "not showing doubt or consideration" is laughably wrong.

Is it though? Because as much as you claim to be considering it, I don't think your actions show it. You push me on anything no matter how little sense it makes, I don't think you're really listening to my explanations at all. Maybe I should stop posting for a while since we've been going around in circles.

I think there is a fair chance you are giving the opportunity for BoP because you are convinced Datisi is going to lim someone other than you and this will lead to a chain of miseliminations.

[Ausuka]

What am I even supposed to do with that. You scumread me for reasons that don't make sense and when I point that out you say you don't care that it doesn't make sense because you care about being right.

It's like circular logic. You're right because you're right. Reasoning doesn't matter.

[Ausuka]

Whatever. I think I accidentally started caring about mafia too much. It doesn't matter who wins really so I'm just going to dip for a bit because I'm not enjoying this and i'll come back later when other people are around.

[Ausuka]

ok then Yeet me. I'm unsure why you expect me to not think the bop could just be an opportunity to chain eliminate three townies rather than the alternative of hardpushing me which has a lot of uncertainty and is fairly likely to result in you dying d2.

[Ausuka]

if I am scum, I am perfectly capable of yeeting you and getting away with it.

I do not need to do some convoluted bop offer.

In that case if you're scum you're perfectly capable of doing the bop thing and winning since you can never be caught. Maybe you're doing this for style points, I don't know

[Ausuka]

not properly caught up w the last few pages but the reason i'm not too sure this comes from scum!ari is because town!her often does thinks that i think are scummy. like i was thinking her play way incredibly scum indicative when we were in a town hydra together. i do not trust myself to read her properly

what am i even doing this game that you think is scum!indicative?

coming specifically from you, nothing

in general, a lot of things

i'd be calling for your head if you proposed a bop like that and had the scumteam you have with the flimsy reasoning you do if you were anyone else

I mean maybe I'm missing something then

Aristeia if anything I would expect to have less flimsy reasoning than other people? I know you know her better than I do but can you explain it for me please

[Ausuka]

I honestly have no clue how anything Ari has been doing in the last few pages could come from a town mindset. It's vague, weak, circular arguements for a read that hasn't been fleshed out since day 2.

i don't see how any of that matters

weak arguments != scum

i think the way she's handling her scumreads and her approach to them is generally very likely to be town, she doesnt need to put herself out in front so much as mafia and the way she is treating her reads makse me think she really believes in them

i don't think ausuka's response to ari is scummy and i'm leaning on it being +town for her too

i'm not scumreading datisi in this exchange, but i am also explicitly *not* townreading him

I feel like aristeia trying to just lurk as scum probably gets caught by Datisi? From my experience with her as town she tends to put herself in front which probably necessitates doing the same as mafia to some degree?

Idk if I really believe that she believes some of the stuff she was saying tbh

[Ausuka]

I mean, now that Don's had his moderator confirmation I'd like him to elaborate on why he sounded so sure the team is me and datisi

[Ausuka]

I don't think ari is obfuscating their involvement or whatever but I think most of the other things meg said is correct - Ari is trying to push absolute nonsense and circular logic here imo and I would just expect better from town her

Like surely almost everyone can agree that the "I don't care about making sense I care about being right" line was terrible

[Ausuka]

i mean maybe I'm biased or something but what am I supposed to do with that? Ari is convinced I'm scum no matter what and it doesn't matter how bad the reasons are she's right because she's right? I feel like Ari is just too good at town to push me in such a bad faith way?

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't expect her to be right 100% of the time; scumreading me alone is ok. I thought her original push on me was fine. But like, I think this latest push she's been making seems less likely to be a genuine thought process? As I've already said I think Ari is town here at least half the time because d1 reads are just like that, and I've had people like vedith push me this way before, but I wouldn't really expect it to come from town ari and I don't think this kind of playstyle is something scum Ari would necessarily shy away from? Like I know you said she wouldn't want to draw attention to her but she's admitted that she does draw attention to herself as scum, which to me makes sense because otherwise her scumgame would be pretty easy to tell apart from her town game and she claims to be a god-tier scum player

If it was a newer player doing this I would be more inclined to agree that it's tunneled town but idk

I know you've already spent a lot of time talking to me about this but if it's ok, why exactly do you think this approach is more likely to come from tunneled town? Like I think it's reasonably likely to come from scum Ari mostly because she would probably have confidence she wouldn't be eliminated?

[Ausuka]

you are definitely pushing me

[Ausuka]

I mean I don't know.

If other people really think what Ari is doing doesn't count as a push I am willing to listen.

I think she is trying to make me look like mafia and get me eliminated, if not today then tomorrow. That is a push to me. I think that is rather obvious.

[Ausuka]

Don't think I elaborated on my Galron thoughts so;

Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run

You want an e-1 wagon on scamper because you want to analyze the wagon even though you can make a case? That doesn't sound pro town.

This push on done feels kind of surface level? Like it seems pretty fabricated and like an easy push to make here, because although I don't think there's much scum motivation for what Done is doing it is weird.

The treatment of the Miller claim by xayah and auska sounds townie. I don't see an issue

can you elaborate on this?

xayah's reaction to the claim wasn't over the top and they rightfully questioned it. Other than the thing about ausuka overreacting to it they did fine and even that seemed to be a failure of memory. ausuka's push back was warranted and sounded genuine.

I don't really know how to explain why this pings me? I guess it feels a bit TMI. Like, it feels like he's writing it off as TvT without digging into it that much, if that makes sense.

[Ausuka]

No downsides to this, so it is a net positive play.

downsides include that non cop investigative PRs can catch you out, there could be a real miller in the game, and the fact that if you claim miller as scum you are voluntarily subjecting yourself to miller speculation

[Ausuka]

Now, if you rolled miller, would your main concern be a cop, or a rolecop? Rolecop already gives miller result, so the only confusion would arise if a cop tried to investigate you.
Thats not all, however. Rolecop is predominantly a mafia role, though rarely it is aligned with town as well. So why would she concerned about a role that is not only rare, but also most of the time not even aligned with town?

Because a cop has no reason to target me and that would be stupid

A Rolecop could confirm me as town

[Ausuka]

and being a miller exponentially increases the chance of a town Rolecop existing btw since it gives it utility.

[Ausuka]

I think done is just town tbh

[Ausuka]

I'm not talking about tracker

Rolecop catches me, if I'm a goon vanilla cop or simple or complex does too, there might be more I'm missing. More likely than not those roles do not exist but if they do they have a big incentive to target you. It's a needless risk.

Two millers is very unlikely because Relly isn't a troll mod

It's not catastrophic but somewhat annoying and I'd rather do without it

[Ausuka]

I think that the theory and mechanical speculation is NAI because they would have no difficulty faking that as it has nothing to do with this game, but I do think that setting it up like you are very confident in a Datisi/Ausuka team and that you are going to prove it and then just backing off Datisi for no real reason would be a surprising choice for them to make as scum

Yeah, I agree w/ that

[Ausuka]

No, because I want a Rolecop to investigate me to clear me, I'm not 'worried' about it and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion

[Ausuka]

If you're drawing conclusions from unsupported assumptions, then those conclusions are unlikely to be meaningful. It benefits town if people in this game are rational and draw rational conclusions. The only way it wouldn't achieve anything is if you are convinced that your mind won't change.

Actually, I don't know why you wouldn't want to change my mind here, if you're so confident that you have the correct view of things? Isn't that something to achieve?

I agree with this. I think it's fairly obvious why I would bring up a Rolecop; a Rolecop is the only role that has a reason to do anything about my claim. A cop can just ignore me and move on.

Idk, I'd be surprised if datisi flipped scum here tbh? I wish I could substantiate it more but I tend to vibe with his takes a lot and like his vibes probably more than anyone else

[Ausuka]

me, pocketed? preposterous. I'm so good at mafia that's impossible

Yeah I guess it's possible but like idk I don't think it's particularly likely, there are ~reasons~ I'm townreading him that I can't talk about yet? So I would struggle to engage in a debate about it right now, sorry

[Ausuka]

VOTE: galron

I overreacted yesterday probably. still don't like Ari's push on me and don't want to rule her out as scum but I'm not sure she has that much reason to take this angle as scum rn when it feels like she would be going to extremes of anger and effort for not a massive amount of benefit? and even though I disagree I guess her blowing up at meg feels sort of towny

i don't really have any wagons I'd be interested in other than this, I think galron slot has been pretty consistently wolfy. I thought I've explained the why of it already but I'd be happy to elaborate

[Ausuka]

I think meg is a stronger townread for me now

[Ausuka]

yeah, datisi saying this is probably town ari influenced my read on it as well i guess. I wanted to say she wouldn't but like am not nearly so familiar w/ her so

[Ausuka]

I agree Galron is the only person who really feels like a wolf right now

It's possible that it is literally just galron and Xayah but it's probably more likely that one of the many players in this game who are significantly more talented than me have snowed me

That's a problem for future ausuka though

[Ausuka]

If Done is a wolf I'd be really impressed tbh, he sounds like when he goes on a tangent about stuff like me being scum for the Rolecop thing he genuinely believes what he's saying?

The same goes for Datisi but I know Datisi is good at scum whereas I'm not as familiar with Done, so like, yeah idk. I think there's a contingent of players, like {scamper, you, datisi, Aristeia} where I don't think I could catch you on d1 anyway. I think of those players datisi is probably the least likely to be a wolf as I've said. I hope that doesn't come off as total nonsense, it makes sense in my brain. Aristeia is like, I wanted to think she's a wolf but am now not sure because her play doesn't make that much sense and a lot of people who know her say she's basically locktown so...

You and scamper both come across as good and reasonable so I don't exactly have a reason to suspect you guys

[Ausuka]

It's possible that it's just Galron and Datisi and he has me pocketed, hopefully I'll be able to share more about why I don't really think he's a wolf here soon so other people can evaluate the reasoning? But at the very least I like his vibes in the same way I like you and scamper - yeah all of you are good at the game and probably capable of giving off good vibes to me as scum but if I like all your posts I'm not going to suspect you anyway. If that makes sense.

[Ausuka]

huh

[Ausuka]

i feel kind of the opposite way tbh, it feels like a lot of what he says is so underhanded like he's just trying to keep options open

I mean, maybe? Idk he just feels like he's really feeling that he's connecting the dots and solving the mystery even when I don't think he's making any sense. If that makes sense. Idk it's late.

Pedit: ok I guess I could see that?

[Ausuka]

Done what was the wrap up the day thing about

[Ausuka]

How exactly is that supposed to wrap up the day

Pedit: lol

[Ausuka]

Aristeia if anything I would expect to have less flimsy reasoning than other people? I know you know her better than I do but can you explain it for me please

i cant explain it perfectrly

its just i know i cant really head her well because most of the things she does seem scummy to me so i susualyl plan to leave her to do her thing and then judge results

it's like, yes i know she has flims y reasoning and i am scumreading her for it BUT ive scumread her for it so many times before and i was wrong so lol

idk what to tell you other than she did similar stuf in other towngames

ok I believe u

[Ausuka]

I felt like meg was towny but idk how to justify it

Maybe I just felt Ari was making a nonsense push and it felt like meg was the one to really understand that to me

Although other people said they were townreading me so maybe that isn't totally fair I don't know

Pedit: do you fuck

[Ausuka]

Fight me Done I'll bury you under this mill

[Ausuka]

Done your claim theory is shitttt

Like it's atrocious

If you're town you need to like take a deep deep hard look on how the hell you got to the point where it's nearing the end of the day and your main push is based on a miller claim

Maybe I wouldn't say this if I say fully awake but whatever

[Ausuka]

OK yeah that was rude sorry

I vehemently disagree with your arguments

I really don't know what you've been talking about with Ari and why you said that post would end the day

I still think we lim galron here and he's probably wanting us all to get distracted if I had to guess

[Ausuka]

Oh come on

You were asked to explain why I'm scum and went on a ted talk about millers

The read is based on a miller claim

[Ausuka]

Townread in done rapidly evaporating

[Ausuka]

I think your active players theory is also just completely wrong

Like I would argue against it but having read that post I'm not really sure what I'm meant to be arguing against? Like I just don't understand the point you were trying to make

Pedit: Are you saying that you lied when you were talking about how the miller claim was so suspicious when explaining your read on me? Like that is the only explanation for what you're saying here

[Ausuka]

hopefully I'll be able to share more about why I don't really think he's a wolf here soon so other people can evaluate the reasoning?

i would like this to happen when its possible please

I'm sure you would

[Ausuka]

Ok reading Done's post again I feel like the only point I can get out of it is

The gamestate is stagnant so the people who are posting and trying to change that are wolves

How is this reading incorrect because that's all I can get out of it

[Ausuka]

Like if you think the gamestate is stagnant and people aren't doing shit and that's because wolves want it that way

Wouldn't you suspect wolves are maybe just maybe the people not doing shit?????

Like idk dude maybe I'm an idiot but that's what I would think

[Ausuka]

Ok so like

You say I'm scum, with dstisi

Scamper pressures you on why this is

You talk about why the miller claim is suspicious? And now you're apparently deathtunneling me

If I'm wrong about the miller claim being the reasoning, why is it because that's all I have to work with

Pedit: okay except like, if you read my posts I was very much not acting to stagnate discussion, I was pushing phoenix galron slot and I really don't feel like dstisi was either so like I don't get why you're being so rigid about this

Like. At the time you were saying this I am pretty sure Aristeia was directing the discussion to how good she is at catching scum. If you want a culprit to pin that on read the actual posts instead of generalizing and it's there. Except like, we've already discussed this and I voiced my suspicion of this exact thing. And came to the conclusion it could be town Ari doing that because Datisi said it's within her town meta.

Like I don't understand why you're not looking at the actual posts here

[Ausuka]

Ok whatever I think I'm doing the thing again where I post in response to someone pushing me too quickly and it creates a balloon of posts

The idea that I am sidetracking questions is absurd. like just by questioning this weird logic I'm mafia because how could anyone doubt the almighty gamestate read.

I am going to take my leave from this thread for now

My instinct is still that done is town playing town weirdly but not sure

[Ausuka]

Gamma I think it would be really funny if you posted that image of the pizza delivery man walking into a room on fire

[Ausuka]

I'm not going to closely read the last 13 pages unless there's somehting I need to see. I did a skim through and I'm okay with limming donempire at this point. His whole e-1 thing doesn't read as genuine and his reliance on mech is easy to fake. I don't know who his buddies are but more votes on done please.

can you pick out specific posts from done you don't like? The e1 thing is the same read you had early so like you don't really appear to be sorting here

Also do you like, have any townreads

[Ausuka]

meg v scamper seems to like leak heavily into playstyle issues. i think i get the vibes they genuinely believe what they're saying and are frustrated at the other which is probably+town for both, I was townreading meg anyway

this is probably more likely to be town scamper on balance, they're a difficult read but them getting scrappy seems like it would be more likely to be town them Vs them putting on a clean performance for the town, if that makes sense

[Ausuka]

tbh still think we should just Lim galron lole

If that slot is scum I think done is spewed town

[Ausuka]

Not sure why Xayah thinks I haven't been solving

Gamma seems towny so far I guess

[Ausuka]

Still don't really understand why people are scumreading Datisi

[Ausuka]

Thank you Dstisi

Spoiler:

[Ausuka]

Yeah oops you might want to rub your mind of that

I should have labelled the spoiler, relly can you do that sorry

[Ausuka]

It's not like a major spoiler I think dw

[Ausuka]

Mood

[Ausuka]

You have to call them done or they won't answer you

[Ausuka]

I mostly agree with 779 except for their descriptions of scamper and Meg's play

Scamper I guess it's fair to say they're not playing the most aggressively but I'm not sure there's much merit in the push that they're obstructing the flow of information of the town, that seems bogus and if GE is town as seems likely scamper was actively helpful in defusing the conflict

On the other hand I think Meg's play around Ari really wasn't that bad tbh. I mean ari literally said she didn't care about logic and only cared about being right, showing no interest in the obvious link between reasoning and being right, but Meg is in the wrong for not responding immediately to the logical argument Ari made when she was going like aggressive mode against Meg? Maybe I'm just biased against Ari in the context of this game but still. I think saying meg doesn't push anyone especially hard is just wrong, arguably they got here by pushing people too hard.

Idk if this post is helpful and maybe I'm misunderstanding some things but hopefully it helps to show my thought process or something at least. I hope so otherwise the time I spent writing it was pointless

[Ausuka]

Done I'm not sure why it doesn't give you pause that the people who know Ari the best say she wouldn't behave that way

Like I was suspicious of her too but like I think it's fairly clear some people have deeper knowledge of her play than others? Idk

[Ausuka]

I equally feel that the point about active players or whatever is a misdirection

I already had this discussion with datisi earlier - I said I thought Ari was scum because she dragged the thread in a stagnant direction by pushing the comparison of her play to Xayah's. Datisi agreed this was not productive but said that with knowledge of Ari this is something she could do as town. Like, as far as I'm concerned this is based on a discussion that was already resolved. I think if you look at my posts and Datisi's it is hard to argue we haven't been trying to drag the game forward. If I had it my way we would've been pushing galron to e 1 from the start.

Pedit: I think it's the third actually

[Ausuka]

Done I'm not sure why it doesn't give you pause that the people who know Ari the best say she wouldn't behave that way

Like I was suspicious of her too but like I think it's fairly clear some people have deeper knowledge of her play than others? Idk

It does give me a pause, but i am skeptical of meta reads, because theres nothing that says meta is concrete, maybe she decided to change it for this game, even if it didnt maybe she was pissed of because of something outside of the game, basically something happened that made her go outside her meta. Why should i trust someone who i dont know the alignment of to determine my read on someone i think was extremely suspicious the whole game, because they are saying that this is par for the course for her. That is what is wrong with meta reading, even if she consistently gets pissed in town games and keeps her cool in scum games, why would this game not be an outlier?

Because in general outliers are much rarer than non outliers? Nothing is impossible but this is a game of probability

At the very least I think it shows her behaviour isn't actively scum indicative

[Ausuka]

Also was your push on me just the miller claim and the Poe or is there something else? I'm sort of confused by you saying you townread me, I thought you were the most enthusiastic captain of HMS Lim Ausuka

[Ausuka]

If it was just the miller claim and you are town last night was potentially one of the most lolzy conversations I've ever had in a mafia game

[Ausuka]

Galron/Xayah are the two slots that I find suspicious to some degree and I don't have much reason to townread coral beyond good vibes which isn't especially reliable for a player of her calibre

So I don't hate that poe

I think those reads would require a non mobile write-up but I think I've already given my thoughts on Galron; both occupants of the slot felt inauthentic, Phoenix was very busyworky and trying to look town more than Lim scum I felt, Galron has been exceptionally meh and all of his posts are incredibly easy to fake. Not a massive fan of his push on you and the bit where he called me and Xayah tvt could be TMI

[Ausuka]

TMI means too much information

The treatment of the Miller claim by xayah and auska sounds townie. I don't see an issue

The treatment of the Miller claim by xayah and auska sounds townie. I don't see an issue

can you elaborate on this?

xayah's reaction to the claim wasn't over the top and they rightfully questioned it. Other than the thing about ausuka overreacting to it they did fine and even that seemed to be a failure of memory. ausuka's push back was warranted and sounded genuine.

This post feels, I don't know the perfect word for how to describe it but it feels overly vague and fake. Like, I don't believe he actually tried to sort these posts with an uninformed mindset.

[Ausuka]

Warranted, sounds genuine, rightfully questioned, wasn't over the top, idk do you see what I mean here? It's handing out townreads too easily and I don't feel he's digging into the meat of the issue. I feel like he decided that he was going to call this TvT and made the rest of the post just to justify that afterwards.

[Ausuka]

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said I wasn't a fan of his push on you, it looks more like he wanted to find something easy to push and wasn't really sorting you

[Ausuka]

I think Ausuka's Miller claim is NAI in and of itself and while it presents the possibility that she's fakeclaiming, I believe it's too early in the day to be talking about "yeeting" anybody, given that we're only 30-ish posts in. If there's no better option by the end of the day, for example, then sure, but I think we should see how the game plays out for now.

Eh

[Ausuka]

I don't buy it

[Ausuka]

I think rolecop phoenix responds to my claim like that 0% of the time tbh

[Ausuka]

I think it's fairly likely he's scum and they have some sort of role that makes a rolecop likely and he wants to draw a CC

Like ninja or smth

[Ausuka]

Rolecop could be town because of my role

I just think he's not a rolecop

Probably a pointless argument to be having, we agree on the important part

[Ausuka]

Spicy claim, this is me saying go along with the hammer so if it's wrong I can wagon Ausuka tomorrow ez

why ausuka scum of galron town?

I still will be very surprised if one of Ausuka and Datisi aren't a wolf.
If the fact town PR's are like rolecop miller vs 1 scum role that can be played off with a rolecop and a goon that's hella townsided so I doubt it from a setup pov that both of those are real.

That sounds more scumsided imo??

[Ausuka]

oh yay we probably get a flip before I go to sleep

[Ausuka]

maybe he is a wolfron

[Ausuka]

that was terrible I'm sorry

[Ausuka]

I disagree because if that were the case done would have agreed with what Ari said which did not happen

[Ausuka]

I mean there's no way for you to know that at this point in your catchup but like, I'm answering your post

[Ausuka]

Also while I'm usually reluctant to do preflip associations I *really* think Galron is scum and I think his push on done spews done as town pretty hard?

[Ausuka]

Ok new plan I'm going to Lim my strongest townreads until we win the game

VOTE: Datisi

[Ausuka]

Strategy has higher EV than limming my scumreads, sorry but you have to die

[Ausuka]

now the game is over I can talk about why I think dats is town here

I can elaborate more I guess but basically it's that I really thought he might be pocketing me even though I liked his posts in that game

Because he townread my miller claim kinda point blank and he agreed with my pushes and was townreading me from the start. I think other people said he might be pocketing me a few times as well

But he was town in that game, so like idk I think we might just be similar players on a vibes level and that's why he can read me and we often have similar views? Does that make sense?

[Ausuka]

yeah idk i wouldn't have much confidence in any of my reads anyway so like, it's whatever

[Ausuka]

VOTE: datisi

Reread the game and realised this is obvious scum

[Ausuka]

Phoenix's persistence is slightly towny, I think. As scum he would probably recognize that he isn't really getting townread for his approach and may change tactics. I do agree that he sounds a little stiff, but that may just be a personality or writing style trait.

My instinct was like, coral is unlikely to do this to a partner? Because it just seems like such an obvious partner read and although I don't actually know who coral is I definitely get the vibes she is a deeply competent player

[Ausuka]

VOTE: datisi

Reread the game and realised this is obvious scum

what's the matter, miss sara?

ur obvscum sadly

(I don't know who I scumread yet)

[Ausuka]

Meg is interesting? I got town vibes for them but have kind of forgot why I was thinking that? I will take another look

Why is scamper town

[Ausuka]

I got town vibes for them

me too, but my issue is that i can point out at least a few posts for every alive player and say why i found them somewhat townie

but obviously they can't all be right

If I just vote Datisi I don't have to think about all the contradictions in my thinking

[Ausuka]

see ausuka, your reads dont suck

You're just saying this to mitigate the massive wave of paranoia I am going to direct towards you

[Ausuka]

i'm the keymaster

I CC

[Ausuka]

GE and Datisi I think are partners with Galron very rarely

I don't think it's Coral here

Meg is like, uh, maybe. Same with scamper who I am probably never not going to be paranoid of they do feel a bit different here but I guess it's also a different environment?

Xayah is my prime suspect I think - Done is town, GE is town, I am unconvinced everyone pushing me yesterday was town and mafia didn't take advantage of that. Although I suppose Galron basically deciding to AWOL throws off such assumptions.

Pedit: I thought done was town

[Ausuka]

I don't think scum! scamper kills done.

Sorry could you elaborate here?

[Ausuka]

i don't think scum!her, upon seeing galron be about to go down, starts putting me and ausuka oin her most bottom tier, because, uh. i really don't think that we're viable executions here.

I disagree with this - I feel like she was pushing us two from basically the beginning and I can sort of see scum her not wanting to change course, even in the run-up to a scumflip, which I think would look more suspicious and she would see that. If that makes sense.

[Ausuka]

After rereading I don't think Meg's treatment of galron is super strange. Like okay I get the instinct to say scum probably bussed, and it's a possibility with nothing to rule it out, but Meg consistently shades Galron for being inactive and later jumps on him when it seems like that wagon's taking off, which like, I can see that coming from town I think?

[Ausuka]

i feel like this would be valid if she also hadn't gone from "i have a strong townread on galron" to "nvm he's like second from the bottom tier" in the similar span.

I don't see why scum xayah changing one read would mean she couldn't decide to keep another constant? I also think it's a fairly required progression for her to have as either alignment because it's super weird to townread Galron when he clearly wasn't doing anything. I don't think that discredits the idea that she was looking to generally speaking not change course in the direction she was pushing.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Coral
Not even a real plant.

i am!

i kinda think phoenix is townie

Disagree so far
38 struck me as a little lamist.

Meg why didn't you vote for phoenix here

[Ausuka]

The reason I was townreading meg is probably bad

At the time I was scumreading Ari and thought since meg was the only one who could see that her push on me was empty they were probably town. While I think it's more likely scum pushes on the Ausuka side of the equation, I can see why for scum Meg who had already pushed Ari, it would make sense to take advantage of our argument to continue doing so. I think this is a point I can't really achieve clarity about because my emotions and perspective cloud my perception of the argument I had with Ari and especially how people responded to it.

[Ausuka]

My instinct is to say that it wasn't super obvious Galron would die and that after Galron's flip Done was kind of like, heavily townspewed by the way Galron treated that slot. I pointed that out at the end of the day, which like obviously my reads aren't amazing but I think that would reinforce the view in mafia that Done wasn't a miselim option after Galron's flip. I think I could see scum scamper pushing Done there?

I think this is a bit towny of done to push though

[Ausuka]

Uh, that should say meg and not done >.>

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Xayah

I really don't like their posts yesterday, I think at times they felt somewhat artificial, and i know I'm biased but I think this is at least a good place to start the day

Not really feeling any other wagon, like I could be convinced on meg or scamper maybe but I'm not there right now

[Ausuka]

i have a vague feeling this game is fucked if galron flips town so i am ignoring that possibility for the time being

This feels like a town post

Not because it's particularly difficult to fake I just feel like it's a really pointless post for scum Datisi to make and on balance he is less likely to bother making it than town Datisi

[Ausuka]

Micro 1059 | Micro & Normal Stuff

this carrot has some vitamin C in it, and is single even though he doesn't want to be

Playerlist

1. Donempire
2. Datisi
3. Gamma Emerald

Aristeia

4. Ausuka
5. MegAzumarill
6. Xayah
7. Coral
8. Galron

Ph0enix

9. scamper

bold

are confirmed
* denotes prods

Spoiler: Living Players

Datisi
Gamma Emerald
Ausuka
MegAzumarill
Xayah
Coral
scamper

Spoiler: Eliminated Players

Galron (eliminated D1) was a

mafia goon

Donempire (eliminated N1) was a

town complex cop

Spoiler: Events

Start of D1
End of D1

wow GE you're obvious scum tbh you are definitely partnered with Galron

[Ausuka]

also it's probably not strictly necessary for me to interject here but to save time, Datisi is saying scamper is competent scum and he doesn't think scamper was behaving in the way competent scum would making scamper town

I don't know if I agree with the assessment competent scum always try to use that argument opportunistically and never try and play reasonable and defuse it - I think especially that is kind of what scamper did with me and Marci last game to an extent

[Ausuka]

i think the points against xayah are fair-ish im just not sure phoenix makes her his first real push

and i want to note that coral kind of similarly had phoe/galron in poe-ish position but always higher than other people

but maybe i am reading too much into things. i'll see what xayah says.

I see where you're coming from here and this is a point in her favour - tbh overnight I was thinking it was more likely you than Xayah because of that - but also like... I think scum voting each other particularly early game is just not that rare actually and although Phoenix seems like uh, quite a by the book player as you say I'm just not sure it's wise to rule it out

[Ausuka]

Xayah is my thought for partner atm. I feel like the 180 last minute feels like scum trying to catch the bus last minute.
The done kill is interesting, haven't considered the ramifications yet.

Is it overthinking to call this towny? I mean I'm not sure scum meg plays exactly this way. Like, definitely I can see them townreading scamper, but it feels like they're placing more of an emphasis on towncasing scamper vs scumcasimg xayah, whereas I feel like it's more intuitive for scum to do it in reverse. Does that make sense?

[Ausuka]

Phoenix's persistence is slightly towny, I think. As scum he would probably recognize that he isn't really getting townread for his approach and may change tactics. I do agree that he sounds a little stiff, but that may just be a personality or writing style trait.

My instinct was like, coral is unlikely to do this to a partner? Because it just seems like such an obvious partner read and although I don't actually know who coral is I definitely get the vibes she is a deeply competent player

the thing is i think a competent player is more likely to do that tbh

in a 9p especially, losing a partner day 1 can lead to a mech loss from power roles and even if that doesnt happen a bunch of people will be cleared off the fliped scum. a competent seeing their teammate getting pressure early is more likely to play boldly and try to defuse the wagon with some defense


i also think independent of that the read still doesnt make much sense


i also got the feeling day 1 thsi was a game where town scream at each other and try to tear each others heads off for 30 pages (sorry about that) and then we decided to lim the scum who arent doing muh. that was galron and i feel like coral fits that as well, she just hasnt had much actual presence

I felt like coral had a decent amount of presence, although I guess it's possible she was more so interacting with me?

Idk I don't know if I'm married to the argument I was making there I just don't feel like it's coral >.>
I guess like... I can buy that scum would townread phoenix there but I feel like coral would do something more like xayah, where they go for the hard townread, than do a waffly looking townlean which is like Classic Partner Read?

[Ausuka]

Ehh I guess so? It's easy to do but I feel like scum in Meg's position is probably feeling slightly trapped and wants to get miselims done more than anything? But I haven't been scum in like literally three years so maybe my reads just suck

[Ausuka]

see ausuka, your reads dont suck

You're just saying this to mitigate the massive wave of paranoia I am going to direct towards you

no i just felt bad cuz you were down on yourself after that game and i didnt think you were terrible, there was a lot of stuff outside your control and its not good to beat yourself up too much after a loss. and you really did have a good read on phoenix right away here!

paranoia away tho! i dont particularly think i should be cleared off anything i did toward phoenix/galron day 1, there are a lot of people who are significantly townier than me

i do have a reason im town but im not sure how convincing it will be, hopefully it doesnt matter

Hmm I would like to ask what stuff you felt was out of my control and what I should have done better because I'm interested in improving my game if I can but have no idea how to go about like evaluating what I did wrong and should do better?? But that's probably a topic for like... Outside this game thread

pedit: eh I guess maybe? I could argue why I feel like it makes sense for scum to do that here but the fact you think that way makes it possible meg would think that way, so

[Ausuka]

VOTE: datisi

i wanna try this out for a bit

okay

have you learned anything from this vote by the reactions of others and is there anything you want me to respond to / look at

no, i just wanted to get your attention

i'm not scumreading u per se but i'm not townreading u and was hoping that talking with you would help with actually sorting u

i'm rereading the game around this part and i get the vibe this is town!scamper. something feels counterintuitive to me about attacking me while both them and me are saying that ari is town for the meltdown and that ari/ausuka is t/t. bot not actually attacking me but ~pushing to sort me~. and then a few posts later (612) saying that they don't think me/galron makes and sense and that they don't even wanna kill me day 1.

this kind of "being all over the place" feels more likely to come from a town mindset rather than a scum one, i feel. because scum is obviously aware of who is town who is scum, and their informedness acts like a brake for making posts that jump all over the place like this, and lowkey act as shooting yourself in the foot on one front. and you could say "but scamper good at scum" yes i know. it still feels unlikely to do because this is not something that classically gets you towncred, but it does limit your future pushes. so.

lmk if i need to explain this better

I think this makes sense

Hopefully it's just xayah and we can all go home

[Ausuka]

Idk maybe? I feel like the way meg pushed those people doesn't really feel like creating distractions though. Like they're not easy pushes to make... They go after Aristeia and scamper which just leads to them getting into two scrapfights and getting ignored because like, obviously scum Meg wouldn't be able to push through a miselim on these people? Like, I just think it would be a kind of strange approach to take, and during their fight I kind of got the vibes Meg was genuinely frustrated. Again, I don't know how my viewpoint is impacted by being pushed by Aristeia

[Ausuka]

I think me, done and xayah definitely would classify as significantly easier to push

I wouldn't call you an easy push in general but I think you were attracting quite a bit of suspicion as well

[Ausuka]

That would make sense for scum Meg to some extent but I don't think so *specifically* if they are trying to manufacture alternatives to Galron like you're saying

[Ausuka]

im not sure that in and of itself makes sense necessarily, i think when youre down to being the last scum standing its always easier to clear people than make scumcases

Fair enough, I don't really remember what it was like to be in that position anymore, so

[Ausuka]

I think I could see xayah being like demotivated here as scum? Like especially d1 she goes for the hard tr on phoenix slot, he replaced out and the replacement kind of just does nothing and gets eliminated. I could see why it might be sorta difficult to bring yourself to effort in that situation?

[Ausuka]

Although I guess she might have just been busy when the thread blew up idk

I still don't townread anything in her iso and multiple things in there baffle me so I think this is a pretty good vote for today, I don't really have much deeper thoughts than that tbh

[Ausuka]

Fwiw I don't think Coral saying Phoenix looked 'slightly towny' in the early game really indicates confidence.

I have probably already said something along these lines, but while Meg's neutral line on Galron could potentially be partnered, I don't think it has to be. Given that Galron was basically away the entire time I could understand why town wouldn't develop a read there.

[Ausuka]

I think Aristeia's interactions with Phoenix slot was semi clearing both ways and I think GE has looked solidly town since replacing in. Additionally people familiar with her have called Ari town here.

I don't really think scum Datisi takes this angle with his partner and he has felt solidly town throughout to me as well.

[Ausuka]

I believe I explicitly stated we were friends, fwiw?

[Ausuka]

Coral all throughout the game has been very analytical, nuanced, and her thoughts feel really grounded within the game. It's evident that they are trying to solve the game beyond just a surface level to try and appear townie.

I agree with this and it makes me feel a little better about Meg I guess because I feel coral is being pushed by most people and scum Meg is kinda unlikely to take this angle. I know it could be wifom, but the end result is that they are put in a difficult position if they ever need to vote Coral which seems quite likely given their unfortunate position in the game. (Sorry dats if they're the last wolf LMAO)

[Ausuka]

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Of course I wouldn't necessarily expect Coral to hard townread their scumbuddy but the argument you were making was based on the premise that Coral had a high degree of confidence in this read and therefore it's strange that she changed it over time. Based on what she actually posted I think this interpretation is wrong. Given that I'm not Coral I'm not sure why you're speaking as if I have an ulterior motive in defending her here, unless you think there are three mafia in the game.

[Ausuka]

From my perspective, it looks like you're openly just having fun messing around as caught scum, because I don't think anything you're saying here makes sense from a town mindset.

thats not really the impression i get at all, and i dont think shed mess around as scum

Coral all throughout the game has been very analytical, nuanced, and her thoughts feel really grounded within the game. It's evident that they are trying to solve the game beyond just a surface level to try and appear townie.

i think shes going to post analytically regardless of alignment...

I mean probably but it seems like a towny thought for meg to have? idk

[Ausuka]

I mean probably but it seems like a towny thought for meg to have? idk

is the only reason that is a townie thought from meg "coral is overall low in poe so it would benefit scum to push there and meg isn't pushing there"?

:shrug: it felt genuine to me, i don't expect you to agree

[Ausuka]

i also think "I don't mind dying" is a pretty common and obvious approach for scum to take when they're in a pretty much impossible position

off the top of my head it's what wallflower did in pyp and i think hem did something similar

[Ausuka]

ok but i think town is very very very likely to call that bluff too and she would also know that

[Ausuka]

like if she comes in pushing datisi or something instead of meg and coral the widespread response will just be 'lol'

[Ausuka]

I mean she has a push pool of meg coral datisi

I don't really buy the argument that because she's unlikely to win with her current tactic she wouldn't choose it, because she's really unlikely to win with any tactic