Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Thestatusquo]

In that post he's literally saying that he thinks that the vig should come from within this group because of consensus but that he would hero vig me instead?

[Thestatusquo]

Sigh, ok.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really agree but this is distracting anyway because if we lim the last scum and the game is still going and titus is still alive this resolves itself.

[Thestatusquo]

true yea if he was SK he would be more likely to shoot you if anything

What, no way? I was huge lim bait that whole day and enchant replaced in and most people had declared them as "doing something" which was "townie." I remember this because I was suspicious of them because the "something" they were doing didnt seem like much to me.

What is this revisionist history?

[Thestatusquo]

Is that L-1?

[Thestatusquo]

Frogsterking (3): guiltylion, fireisredsir, dannflor
fireisredsir (1): Ausuka
DeasVail (1): Frogsterking
Dannflor (1): Titus
Not voting (3): Datisi, DeasVail, thestatusquo

Looks like this is where we're at right now. I would like frogster to come in and respond to the various things I asked him to do before we lim, obviously.

[Thestatusquo]

Didnt even notice.

[Thestatusquo]

It happened right after I accused him of coasting and no longer being provocative.

[Thestatusquo]

The other thing that I find striking is there seems to me to be a marked difference in how frogster has approached today compared to other days in tone and substance. Previous days there were a lot of loud proclamations about who was scum and a lot of antagonism towards scum reads as well as sort of a brash confidence which seems to be completely gone today. He is definitely coasting. Unlike the other players who seem to have hesitation based off of being genuinely unsure of who could be scum out of the options frogster just doesn't seem to be thinking about it all that much.

I am kind of taken with that post that dannflor called town from frogster because something I try to do a lot is listen to people when they talk about things that they think about wrt others alignment because frequently they take those observations with their self as a baseline. Frogster said he thought I might be town because I haven't "burned out." But it seems like he himself has burned out a bit here.

This is probably mid tier because it's a really weird tinfoil that jumped off from something I said in a very wrong direction, divorced from all context in the game.

what context in this game applies to you but not me outside of possibly alignment?

Also you spent like 10 posts talking about how bad the cases on you are but you didn't actually give reasons why they're bad. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Tell me why the cases against you are bad if you don't want me to put stock in them, don't just dismiss them with ad homs. If you're town and you don't want me to vote for you, you need to recognize that I find some of it pretty convincing and respond to it substantively. Just dismissing things angrily isn't going to work.

@frogsterking

[Thestatusquo]

I mean I didnt even think it was possible for you to roll town so that only makes sense.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm familiar with this game where it was joked about a lot.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think Guilty Lion's reasons to town read Fire are very good because I don't understand what GL actually expects scum!fire to do differently in this situation. Hard push both Frogster and GL as scum after CSF flips scum? That doesn't really make sense. Fire just needs to leave the door open to go back to suspecting GL later and all he has to do is town flip Frogster to do that. There's only one scum left (or at least there better be), so pushing two people when you want one person to help you this phase seems counterintuitive for scum.

I guess it's less that fireisred reversed tack once CSF was outed and more that he wrote an enormous case on me that he would know has an expiry date in the first place. Like CSF was in full anti-spew mode from the get, why go through the effort of pretending (or actually) rereading the entire game and write an enormous narrative for a fabricated scumread that you're willing to drop at a moment's notice. it's just not intuitive to me as what scum would do

it's possible that you're right. but on an instinctual level it just doesn't align with how I feel scum would play. I think scum would be generally more prone to enacting their long term agenda contingent on CSF going down, not setting up a gameplan that they'd then immediately have to scrap

I think it's not out of the question for scum to do that sort of thing. It has the advantage of looking like townie effort (plus there was already some amount of suspicion around fire's reread not being townie enough), plus I don't think it's so much of a stretch for fire-scum to think "what would I do if I didn't know that CSF was scum?"

As much as frog is frog, I think that his talk of how he wouldn't be this creative as scum is... probably true?

To the last part: why?

[Thestatusquo]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

Ok I'm gunna need way more explanation on this one.

In what way is gamma similar to GL?

Also, if I recall correctly you defended gamma and then only moved onto her when she became MT. Is this wrong? If so can you give me posts where you suspected Gamma and then tell me how those posts are similar to how you feel about GL?

[Thestatusquo]

I've reported that post. Please feel free to play the game and attack arguments, but stop insulting me personally.

[Thestatusquo]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

Ok I'm gunna need way more explanation on this one.

In what way is gamma similar to GL?

Also, if I recall correctly you defended gamma and then only moved onto her when she became MT. Is this wrong? If so can you give me posts where you suspected Gamma and then tell me how those posts are similar to how you feel about GL?

It sounds like you should reread my trajectory on Gamma because your selective memory is skipping a lot of important events so that you can rationalize your shitty frog tunnel.

So you're not going to answer the questions at all then? Feels like if you were town and really thought GL might be scum and that its in your trajectory you'd really want to help me see it.

But you're still arguing with me as if you're trying to argue with scum when you need to convince me that someone else is scum. Which is just like...a vibe I guess.

[Thestatusquo]

Anyway VOTE: Frogsterking

L-1 I believe.

[Thestatusquo]

Like none of this feels like a genuine attempt to solve the game. If I'm wrong, show me. I'll unvote you immediately if you can adequately answer the questions in that post. I don't think you can because I think its nonsense.

[Thestatusquo]

Stop personally insulting me.

[Thestatusquo]

Also so we're just admitting you can't answer the questions because none of that was real, right? Got it.

[Thestatusquo]

Should be trivial to show me with posts and then explain why those posts are similar to things guiltylion is doing then, right?

[Thestatusquo]

If you really had a read on guiltylion that was similar to your trajectory to gamma should be pretty simple to just show that trajectory and then explain the similarities.

[Thestatusquo]

So thats a no, then? On doing the thing that you said is obvious and easy?

[Thestatusquo]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

Ok I'm gunna need way more explanation on this one.

In what way is gamma similar to GL?

Also, if I recall correctly you defended gamma and then only moved onto her when she became MT. Is this wrong? If so can you give me posts where you suspected Gamma and then tell me how those posts are similar to how you feel about GL?

pretty simple questions to be honest.

[Thestatusquo]

the dastardly scum strategy of asking you to explain something and then provide examples and talk about them.

How stupid and devious of me.

[Thestatusquo]

At this point I think I'd rather lim frogster even if he is town because none of this even remotely feels like an attempt at figuring out who scum is.

[Thestatusquo]

So, thats a no again on the extremely unreasonable request of *checks notes*

Explaining why you think something, providing examples, and then explaining why they made you think the thing you thought? Just checking one last time.

[Thestatusquo]

and yet you keep posting.

[Thestatusquo]

the fun thing is you likely can't self hammer as scum since directly leading to a loss for your faction by hammering yourself would definitely being against the rules of playing to your win condition.

[Thestatusquo]

You realize thats hella ablelist right? In a completely out of game sense as a human being with no role card to another human being with no role card, please stop.

[Thestatusquo]

That is not what the traditional use or impact of terms like "hurr durrrrrrrr" is and you damn well know it. Please stop.

[Thestatusquo]

Well, ok, then I'll take the time to educate you hoping you are in good faith. That specific affectation is frequently used to make fun of and mockingly mimic those with developmental disabilities. It is extremely hurtful language in this sense and I think that if you are seriously doing it with no knowledge of that and do it in other contexts I would sincerely ask you reconsider because of the impact.

[Thestatusquo]

You're analysis of my read trajectory on Gamma is wrong by the way because you're ignoring my D1 play.

@Shea,

Not you, fire.

I didn't make an analysis of your read trajectory. I said what I vaguely remembered and then asked you if it was wrong, and that's not even the important part of my question which was me asking you how that related to GL with examples from said trajectory.

[Thestatusquo]

that said, nothing he's done on the last few pages feels remotely believable to me, so

This is a scum line FYI

everything you post is just extremely hollow

there's nothing behind it, you're just posting conclusions and then refusing to show any of the thought process that led you to those conclusions

[Thestatusquo]

I'm happy to vote fire today if you can just answer the questions I've been asking for about 3 pages now adequately. Can you do that?

[Thestatusquo]

seems pretty trivial to hit the ol' back button and pull up the post in the time it took you to type that out.

[Thestatusquo]

But fine, I'll restate:

You said GL was starting to remind you of how gamma made you feel and that is why you suspected him.



My question was 1) explain what about GL reminds you of gamma, 2) that I remember you not really scum reading gamma that much until he became morningtweet. Is that correct, if not can you show me some posts of said trajectory and then 3) can you relate those posts about how you were "feeling" about gamma that guiltylion is reminding you of.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok, now do the next step.

[Thestatusquo]

This projection is roughly what I remember by the way. You briefly pushed at gamma for about one total page in a very distance-y sort of way and then immediately moved off of her at the very first chance you got and then didnt really significantly push gamma again.

[Thestatusquo]

Uhh Gamma traitor maybe? Or Town on tilt? Or scum playing better than they have in the past? My instincts are both to Town and scum read Gamma and that's the best I can rationalize that. I feel like Gamma is working within the PoE laid out by the Town core but in the worst way possible. I've seen Gamma make three tells now which I can link directly to their scum meta.

This is the feeling I was referring to when I said that GL is reminding me of Gamma's slot. Looking at this post, the main difference is that GL's play just makes me confused and agitated, and I haven't seen the concrete identical scum posts which I was also seeing from Gamma.

Please break this down further.

Which of the following statements is correct:
1) You think GL might be a traitor
2) You think GL is town on tilt
3) You think GL is scum playing better than they have in the past
4) Your instincts are that its best to both TR or SR guiltylion
5) You think GL is working within the PoE laid out by the town core but in the worst way possible
6) You have seen GL make three tells now that you can link directly to their scum meta.

Please tell me which numbers and explain how GL is making you feel that way.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean its pretty clear to me that you went back into your meta, desperately tried to find a post that was vague enough that you could sort of half link it to your nonsense GL point and then posted it.

The problem is that it doesn't make sense, even by the standards of some of your other pushes.

GL is on tilt? How? Why would he be town who is tilted in this scenario? How is thinking someone is town on tilt a basis for scum reading them?

4) is nothing. That's just how mafia works.

5 is word salad that doesn't mean anything. What is "the town core" in this scenario? Is the PoE just me you and fire? Is 'working in it in the worst possible way' just code for "voting you?" if not, how is GL in particular making you feel different from any of the other people voting you.

This is just utter nonsense, mate. I'm sorry, this is just some of the worst rationalized justification for a fake read I've ever read in my entire life.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea do you think this is going to get productive at any point

I think it already has been. I think its incredibly productive for deas and ausuka and whomever else is not voting frogster to see this utter sham of a fake scum read that he is ex post facto and hilariously trying to justify by digging in his iso and looking for any post that he can try to stretch to be similar to something he might be "feeling" about GL right now.

[Thestatusquo]

If fire is scum town is going to win this game very easily so I don't know why you think I would be upset in this scenario.

[Thestatusquo]

Nah because I think if you're town here you're actively hampering the towns win condition right now so I think its the right move to lim you either way.

[Thestatusquo]

Did the "keep me logged in" function get unchecked? That happened to me.

[Thestatusquo]

Tilted town frogster definitely would have self hammered. Tilted scum frogster can't because it would be throwing. I legitimately believe this with all my heart.

[Thestatusquo]

I just very strongly feel that frogster is the last scum here. It doesn't particularly matter if we go frog into fire or fire into frog but the thread would be a lot less chaotic if we do the former with the bonus point that I think that will also end the game a whole day sooner.

[Thestatusquo]

Game day, my friend. I was jokingly saying I think we will not need to lim fire if we lim you because the game will end before we go to day 6.

[Thestatusquo]

I had a brief moment before twilight where I was wondering if Shea was trying to goad Frogster into cluttering up the thread and making his elimination happen

but when I read back I decided that's a pretty uncharitable interpretation

I don't super like fire having some vague doubts about Frog being town at EoD yesterday but not so much as hinting at another suspect. It felt more like posting doubt just to post doubt when I think it is natural to have paranoia about at least one other person in this game state?

I mean, I was trying to do this, because I thought he was scum and was trying to end the day.

[Thestatusquo]

Is there anything to talk about here really?

[Thestatusquo]

I agree that Titus shooting is bad.

[Thestatusquo]

No reason to not give time.

Also I agreed with you on frog very strongly at the end, so I don't really blame you for that.

[Thestatusquo]

I need to catch up on today.

[Thestatusquo]

Honestly the only person I really think is scum is titus and that's literal crazy talk so...

[Thestatusquo]

Do you think fireisred was playing this way yesterday too, dann?

[Thestatusquo]

I think Fire pushed for a frogster lim decently hard yesterday.

I guess he's kind of doing the same with DV here.

I guess I'm just noting a difference in rhetoric and action here which is familiar to me because its very much what I was doing earlier in this game when I self voted myself to try to demonstrate how I was willing to lim myself to get out of the way.

I was performatively trying to look townie while trying to push the town towards limming the people I thought were scum if we didnt end up going for me.

It feels like maybe fireisred is being performative in the same way to me here. I'm not saying I'm town reading them but I think that difference in rhetoric and action is important and I know for a fact that perfomatively LAMISTing as town is something town sometimes do because I did it myself this game.

IDK.

[Thestatusquo]

That being said there feels like an...idk it feels like fire is pushing people because he knows he'd be expected to push people but it feels like theres not that much actual attempt to solve the game in the sense that there seems like there's very little curiosity about people's alignment outside of DVs just like yesterday there seemed like very little curiosity in peoples alignment outside of frogster.

Like its simultaneously projecting confidence and lack of confidence and that's what's really bugging me about it.

Like it looks like fireisred cased DV because he knew he had to push someone and went back and found a bunch of stuff that look bad for DV and it feels like thats the kind of same thing he did yesterday with frogster, but why arent we considering other options outside of just casing one person?

[Thestatusquo]

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are good

i didn't revisit my reasons to townread dv yesterday bc i was focused on frog and that was a mistake

So you decided to follow that up by making the same mistake today on the rest of the game?

[Thestatusquo]

Like how is your play today wrt DV different substantively from your play yesterday with frogster? Are you saying you went back and looked at everyone else and found lots of reasons to town read them and then didn't feel the need to share that? Would that not be part of why you would think DV was scum?

[Thestatusquo]

but ig its true that (maybe cocky) i do believe that if i were scum in this position i would win

This feels a little bit like a lie to me, or at the very least is incongruous with every other way you've presented yourself in terms of your confidence and mindset and worldview this game.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean simply put I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be feeling very good about my position here if I were scum and I feel like fireisred would be in an even worse position than scum!me hypothetically so I find that statement a little hard to believe.

[Thestatusquo]

Cocky me thinks theres a chance I could win this game as scum. Cocky me wouldn't "believe that I would win" in this position.

[Thestatusquo]

but ig its true that (maybe cocky) i do believe that if i were scum in this position i would win

This feels a little bit like a lie to me, or at the very least is incongruous with every other way you've presented yourself in terms of your confidence and mindset and worldview this game.

i think i am better at scum than at town idk how my confidence in my scumplay is related to my confidence in my townplay in this game

this gamestate is winnable by literally anyone as scum who chooses to put the requisite effort into doing so and is good at convincing people not to want to lim them

I like don't know how to make a big deal of this but do you really not see why its relevant when you were using it as an argument for how you would approach the game differently as scum than you are right now?

[Thestatusquo]

hey everyone, I'm here and gonna start doing some reading, but around for real time interfacing if anyone wants that too.

can I get your take on last page plus the beginning of this one.

[Thestatusquo]

i do still feel like a lot of the stuff with GL is kinda sus, but a big part of it also was how he handled HEM vs obscure, and that just reads as a lot more uninformed knowing that both were actually scum rather than just obscure. he'd probably be my second choice tho

shea i just don't think is scum. i don't really want to get into it. ik he's next in the poe but i don't think my reasons will convince anyone not to flip him anyway so whatever

ok

can you actually get into your read on shea? I feel like it's important if you're town

also like saying GL is kinda sus and he's your second choice doesn't seem congruent with how you're behaving this phase

yea i can talk about some stuff. probably tomorrow idk if i feel like digging tonight

But I thought you already did it? Enough to not need to worry about me being scum over DV? Why would you need to dig?

[Thestatusquo]

but ig its true that (maybe cocky) i do believe that if i were scum in this position i would win

This feels a little bit like a lie to me, or at the very least is incongruous with every other way you've presented yourself in terms of your confidence and mindset and worldview this game.

i think i am better at scum than at town idk how my confidence in my scumplay is related to my confidence in my townplay in this game

this gamestate is winnable by literally anyone as scum who chooses to put the requisite effort into doing so and is good at convincing people not to want to lim them

I like don't know how to make a big deal of this but do you really not see why its relevant when you were using it as an argument for how you would approach the game differently as scum than you are right now?

*how much to make a big deal of this

[Thestatusquo]

I like don't know how to make a big deal of this but do you really not see why its relevant when you were using it as an argument for how you would approach the game differently as scum than you are right now?

i wasn't using it as an argument for how i would approach it differently

i was using it to reason my way into thinking that maybe dann is right and i should try harder to survive as town here

I think you're probably smart enough to know that no one accidentally talks about the difference in their scum and town play in a situation where they're being pressured for not playing in a certain way.

Like sure, surface level you were agreeing with dannflor that maybe you should town case.

But underneath that there was the logic "i am playing differently from how scum me would play."

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like a really legitimate consideration for me right now is figuring out who I would be least mad about losing to if they're scum.

[Thestatusquo]

But I thought you already did it? Enough to not need to worry about me being scum over DV? Why would you need to dig?

i would be pulling quotes or posts probably if i wanted it to convince anyone?

OK but give us the broad strokes? It's a strong enough reason to you that you are comfortable pushing dv specifically in the same manner that you pushed frogster yesterday so surely you should be able to just give a birds eye view and give us the quotes to back that up tomorrow.

So can we get that now?

[Thestatusquo]

But underneath that there was the logic "i am playing differently from how scum me would play."

yeah, I think this is right. I think mafia in general are more likely to get pulled into these somewhat abstract arguments about how they would or wouldn't play, whereas town tends to stay a little more focused on the ground level explaining why they acted how they did and/or who they think is scummy. a lot of fire's recent posts I'm not really intuitively understanding why he's engaging with these tangential arguments so much when to me they feel detached from Things That Are Useful

I mean, I think on some level there is the instinct of town to defend themselves which muddles this take a little but, but also fireisred is projecting as much as possible that he doesn't feel the need to defend himself, so that is disjointed as well.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think town is necessarily laser focused on The Things That Matter when they're being pressured.

[Thestatusquo]

It's also cool that whomever wins this game gets an invitation to GLs wedding. That's nice of him.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think we've been playing the same game if you think I haven't been paying attention but a little antagonism thrown in there to make it seem more carefree and less pockety is a nice touch.

[Thestatusquo]

It's an incredibly funny reason to find me townie while ostensibly pushing DV though, I'll give you that.

[Thestatusquo]

you havent talked about your town reads I don't think, you just asserted that you had them.

Like you make this post

i think i feel least good about my reasons for townreading DV. i sort of preflip cleared him earlier due to his pushes on GL and frog, but they can't be scum together, so

i do still feel like a lot of the stuff with GL is kinda sus, but a big part of it also was how he handled HEM vs obscure, and that just reads as a lot more uninformed knowing that both were actually scum rather than just obscure. he'd probably be my second choice tho

ausuka i actually have had some creeping doubts about a few various points gut feeling like tmi due to a seemingly unsupported confidence but her reads are probably just a lot better than mine lol. if she's scum she has gotten way better than her previous scum game in terms of sounding believable which idk if i would really expect after not playing scum for 2 years

shea i just don't think is scum. i don't really want to get into it. ik he's next in the poe but i don't think my reasons will convince anyone not to flip him anyway so whatever

dann feels pure like all game to me now. just feels like he's constantly trying to find scum. very well played if scum

i kinda doubt it's titus bc wtf is an even night serial killer

Which is just like here is some surface level stuff, but in response to me you said

i did already talk about how i revisited everyone else and reaffirmed my reasons to townread them, yes

idk but that post doesn't really feel like you did the work to reaffirm your reads as justifications for singularly pushing dv the way you're claiming you did. Like you're making it sound like you did some work looking at everyone in order to avoid the mistake you said you would be making here.

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are good

i didn't revisit my reasons to townread dv yesterday bc i was focused on frog and that was a mistake

So I guess I should be clear here with my actual question. What are you claiming to have done to "revisit your town reads?"

[Thestatusquo]

I am also not sure I find dann as pure as everyone else does, and part of it is actually in what fire said about me:

and you're probably not going to like me saying this but tbh it just seems like you've barely been paying attention to the game for like weeks and i just kinda doubt thats how you play this as scum. i think you would be motivated to win and stay engaged and not just let yourself get poe'd

and

it's also not really relevant but I think Dann is radiating towniness on these past couple of pages. past couple of day phases really, feels like he's trying the hardest out of all of us

Which is why its then weird to see fire post

it's also not really relevant but I think Dann is radiating towniness on these past couple of pages. past couple of day phases really, feels like he's trying the hardest out of all of us

strong agree

Like I get that me and dann are not in quite the same spot in the PoE, but town reading effort in one place and then saying the lack of effort in the other is townie is just a weird way to approach sorting.

[Thestatusquo]

Can we take an approach of:

Fire is okay with getting eliminated
I am not

And eliminate fire?

Do you think that approach is more likely to find scum in a vacuum? I kind of doubt it.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess part of why I'm paranoid of Dann is that the way he approached frogster yesterday, he made really strong points about how frogsters posts felt super townie with how he and I were real timing and how he felt it was a proactive reason to town read frogster and then that kind of just went away when the frogster push started happening. The reason I don't know if that's a super strong reason to be suspicious is that obviously I was strongly convinced frogster was scum at the end of day yesterday too, so idk.

But its not the first time this game where I've felt like dann was very fixated on a point where it supported a narrative that would be beneficial to him but it completely went away never to be mentioned again later. The best example of this was at the end of day with me forgetting CSFs claim he seemed very interested in saying I was scum based off of me forgetting that CSF had claimed but that hasn't seemed to play into his analysis of my slot at all now that less people seem interested in flipping me.

Basically I kind of feel like asking the question "who is trying to end game the hardest" that dannflor himself asked, the answer to that question is dannflor.

So my paranoia does not want him excluded from the PoE at all.

I'm still parsing how I feel about fire though.

[Thestatusquo]

(In the first paragraph there I mean "strong" in the sense of how strongly he seemed to believe them, not strong in the "objectively true" sense.)

[Thestatusquo]

hi

[Thestatusquo]

am I tinfoil hatting too much on dannflor

[Thestatusquo]

How was his play re:defeatism that we see here?

[Thestatusquo]

ive also decided i take back my townread on shea lol

i want the last 3 lims to be me, dv, shea. in a perfect world, just in case im wrong, id want GL as a backup option instead of me, but i really don't feel that one rn

It's cool to see how you keep managing to come back to the miselims you need.

Yesterday it was you and frog. Then it was you and deas. Now I'm involved to. Despite your having like 4 reasons for town reading me not 20 hours ago.

VOTE: fire

Let's end this game.

[Thestatusquo]

Lol

[Thestatusquo]

Honestly i hope you're scum because if you're town I'd lose a lot of respect for how you're playing right now.

[Thestatusquo]

caring.

[Thestatusquo]

fundamentally I just don't think you care about finding the last scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I want you to hammer. People had plenty of time to do things and if they game doesnt end they can do them over night.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok uh that isn't really what I expected?

Titus why is it GL and why are you still here

Because I was expected to shoot wrong. Then it wouldn't matter who they shot if wrong.

VOTE: unvote

Utterly detest shea rushing the hammer.

You've put roughly 0 effort into this game so don't talk to me about what you like and don't like.

[Thestatusquo]

Is there any way at all that is normal for scum to get a second kill?

Like the person who is the scummiest here is by far titus.

[Thestatusquo]

And I don't think scum would keep titus alive to wifom if shes town because she's confirmed to have killed so there isn't like a lot of upside there.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think this is that weird though, he didn't actually claim even night vig, modified vig is a pretty vague claim to make

I guess let me be clearer on my thinking

1) we know Titus is not groupscum because multiple kills on N2
2) if Titus is SK, that means mafia team was exactly 4 goons and could not have had information on town PRs
3) after n1, mafia would know of the existence of another killing role due to multiple kills
4) HEM claimed modified vig on D2... why? At this point there'd be no reason to suspect a town vig is gated, it doesn't work as a fakeclaim to draw out a full vig, why claim vig at all? Why not claim something like an investigative or other form of PR? I guess I just don't see what HEM hopes to gain here if he had no knowledge of the set up whatsoever

However, typing this out made me realize that if it's 4 mafia goons in a 21 player set up, they probably have to think there's a third party or something helping them out? Cause otherwise that's pretty stacked against them lol. So maybe scum was already suspecting presence of a SK from the beginning if we're in that world?

I also haven't thought much about Enchant being universal back up. Is two modified vigs + three masons + universal backup against 5 scum a balanced setup? What could the 5th mafia role be to help them, and what are the odds that's the last person we'd flip before going through all 4 goons first?

Maybe I should be more suspicious of Titus. It sucks that Nero replaced out cause not shooting HEM on N2 is still overall pretty bizarre

I pointed this out yesterday (I think?) and I believe ausuka said they think its balanced relatively?

[Thestatusquo]

Shrug, I think I'm pretty obviously town so I'm not going to fight too hard. There's a reason that I started as number one in the PoE and it kept flipping over to me.

I'm not really sure who I think is scum and honestly it feels like a coin flip to me anyway. I think any of the remaining player list could be scum given that I don't think any of them are from an objective reading them as scum standard.

I'm not sure how much effort I'm going to give her because I don't really feel confident on figuring out who it is and I also don't even really think limming me is that bad necessarily from a game state perspective because I'll probably be the easiest miselim at limlo anyway tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

I will say dannflor being killed is probably because he was the person strongly town reading me the most and scum knows I need to be in the lim pool.

But that's wifom and he was widely town read anyway so not that strong a point.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think anyone is obviously town anymore at this stage, whoever is last mafia remaining already survived two miselims and is playing a strong game (unless we're in the world where SK!Titus is coasting off of fortunate coincidences and faulty mech-spec by the town)

Ausuka's my strongest TR but that's primarily off of interactions with VPB on D1, and even that I am going to have to revisit and re-examine, so idk. if you have a reason why you think you're "obvious" town I'd like to hear it but it feels like not really a meaningful or genuine assertion here. I'm town but I can totally understand people finding reasons to be suspicious of me now that we're in 5p and the prior suspects flipped green

Was just me emoting in frustration because I prefer to die rather than live to this stage of the game.

[Thestatusquo]

I think six aligned scum would be absolutely wild in this setup.

[Thestatusquo]

not that my opinion matters but I'm pretty sure I would never think to say "this point only makes sense if we're buddies" to a buddy.

maybe I will now that I see it can get late game town cred but I don't think I would ever make that play expecting to get town read for it naturally?

[Thestatusquo]

What was not good about them

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think its possible to see how I pushed obscure constantly to the front out of the shadows and come to the conclusion I was buddies with them. Like yeah bussing exists but why in the world would I make completely novel attacks on the newness of a player being faked as an attempt to bus my buddy who was under zero pressure?

[Thestatusquo]

I think its actually kind of weird and pockety for gl to include "assuming you are town" there and I don't know how much town GL would make the claim that scum would openly coordinate with each other in the thread when they have a pt to do that in?

Like it feels incredibly weird that town!GL would pick at that. Like if I'm bussing obscure why he respond by going buddy buddy with me in thread? It seems like deliberately taking a point that should imply obscure and I are not partnered and trying to find any reason to scum read it.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think its possible to see how I pushed obscure constantly to the front out of the shadows and come to the conclusion I was buddies with them. Like yeah bussing exists but why in the world would I make completely novel attacks on the newness of a player being faked as an attempt to bus my buddy who was under zero pressure?

I think there are lots of things about your play that I have trouble seeing from scum, but this is not really one of them. It's the sort of attack that at worst makes you look better if Obscure is flipped, and most likely causes town to adopt a "protect the newbie" mindset.

PEdit: I found it weird as well, but why as scum do you think GL is trying to convince me that you're town?

I misread and thought GL was making a point as to me being scum.

This is much more in line with what I would expect townGL to say.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think its possible to see how I pushed obscure constantly to the front out of the shadows and come to the conclusion I was buddies with them. Like yeah bussing exists but why in the world would I make completely novel attacks on the newness of a player being faked as an attempt to bus my buddy who was under zero pressure?

I think there are lots of things about your play that I have trouble seeing from scum, but this is not really one of them. It's the sort of attack that at worst makes you look better if Obscure is flipped, and most likely causes town to adopt a "protect the newbie" mindset.

PEdit: I found it weird as well, but why as scum do you think GL is trying to convince me that you're town?

I just don't think I would ever attack a buddy in that way so maybe I just have a tough time seeing it that way. In my mind the main currencies in mafia are pressure and attention. I don't know why I would ever heavily dump both on a buddy for no reason who I think was doing a decent job of using the exact thing I was calling out to avoid said pressure and attention.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah this progression doesn't feel remotely real.

[Thestatusquo]

Glad you were able to come to the conclusion that you were always going to though.

[Thestatusquo]

ok I know no one wants to talk about it but I'm gonna talk about it

Why didn't nero either cc kitty scratch or like shoot her

I think the enchant shot there is massively odd

I know he's not here to talk about it and that's frustrating and replacements suck as a mechanic but like. Does anyone have an explanation that makes sense

I tried to talk about this multiple times and got shouted at that the enchant shot was not odd at all.

[Thestatusquo]

Titus why is your only contribution to this game shouting out extremely unlikely scenarios with no rationale behind them at all?

Like I am sorry if you are having medical issues but even aside from that it seems to me like you've basically not played this game at all so why do we care about your random theory crafting about 6 scum?

What good could it possibly do town to focus on that? Even if we're in a world where there's two scum left how does that change how town approaches their play today?

[Thestatusquo]

On the other hand universal backup doesn't make a ton of sense in the setup without the two vigs? Maybe it does? Does universal backup copy masons? I assume so?

it does copy masons too, yeah

and i don't think gated serial killer makes any sense because that role would just be an incredible "fuck you" to whoever randed it (sk is already shit to play, imagine being gated)

the only way an sk makes sense (imho) is if the sk was shooting every night and doubled up on kills with scum at points

I guess I feel pretty strongly that town nero probably would have shot me instead of enchant if he wasn't going to shoot the claim?

I didn't think about this at all but I guess I kind of feel strongly that Nero's actions make NO sense as town.

[Thestatusquo]

Also, you directly rushed Ausuka to hammer when she volunteered to color VCs for me. So forgive me if I feel your comments now are disingenuous.

lmao.

[Thestatusquo]

Have you read any of the thread? Is every single opinion you have on the game based on vcs and vibes?

[Thestatusquo]

1) So the case against me basically boils down to the fact that I have uncertainty on gamma and obscure, which is uhhh, maybe because I was uncertain? Because I don't know their alignment. If anything these are points for me being town rather than scum. As scum I would almost certainly have a much cleaner progression on my buddies than this, and the fact that I don't is just not an argument for scum motivation. If the claim is that I was bussing my buddies then why would I have not just bussed my buddies and got the town credit for it? There's no reason for me as scum to play the game like this.

2) Saying that I'm willing to go for anyone but scum is a bit rich here considering your claim is that I transitioned off my one buddy (obscure) to vote for my other buddy (HEM) in your world view. So your claiming that I was not willing to bus my buddy so I joined a counter wagon on a different buddy? I would almost certainly not deliberately play this way as scum and I doubt you would either. This point doesn't seem genuine.

3) I think your case includes a lot of very selective reading of context. I.E. both Obscure and Gamma were extreme lurkers who eventually got replaced. To say that I went away from them to focus on other things actually happening in the thread is true, and that's because by and large I just don't like limming lurkers and get distracted by the game that is actually happening. Is that a flaw in my play? Maybe? Does that mean I sometimes get snowed by N_M when he rolls scum? Absolutely. But its just primarily not where my focus ever is and I think if you read some town games of mine you'd find that this is pretty consistent. In fact, and now I'm going to have to stop doing this because I'm demonstrating awareness of it, but I think that me continuing to pressure scum slots that are actively lurking is way more likely to come from scum me than town me.

@Ausuka. I don't know. I think Deas kind of is the most obvious scum candidate but I keep getting distracted by the n_m weirdness. I think any of the three of you are capable of playing this game as scum and I feel pretty useless because I'm not particularly good at combing through past interactions with a comb in order to tease out possible informed comments and I've now been wrong two days in a row so I don't really have a good sense of where I'm at because since I think everyone else is town (though Deas' case on me makes me think he's likely scum who is forced to make this play) the poe from my pov is by necessity everyone.

If I were forced to kingmake this day I'd pick deas but I do not have any high level of confidence in that.

[Thestatusquo]

Like there seems to be a sense in the case that I am simultaneously the intended deep wolf but not willing to actually go through with limming scum in order to accomplish that and I just don't know how you square those two worlds.

Combine that with the fact that I think its been very clear this whole game that I have not been playing to end game and the whole thing falls apart. In order for me to be scum for the points raised I would have to simultaneously be trying to deep wolf and not deep wolf and I just don't think that makes any sense at all. I'm a better scum player than that.

[Thestatusquo]

In a world where my buddies were obscure gamma and doomed hem slot to claim that my inclination would be to hang back and try to delay ALL of their eliminations is just kind of nonsense.

I'm not a super bussy player by nature but like...come on. In that game state it would be the fucking only play?

[Thestatusquo]

Especially after MT comes in and does actual fuck all you think I would hold back as scum? I don't believe that you believe that to be quite honest and if you scoured my iso and this is the best you came up with I'm kind of not sure why we haven't seen you do a similar thing for GL and Ausuka.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not getting in a 1v1 arguing with you.

[Thestatusquo]

Also “scoured the game and this is the best I came up with”, as much as Shea is saying it to make me sound bad, is actually an accurate description. Like, we’re at the point where everyone we thought was the last scum was actually town, and so scouring and coming up with whatever we can that might point to the last scum is exactly what needs to be done here

@Ausuka. I don't know. I think Deas kind of is the most obvious scum candidate but I keep getting distracted by the n_m weirdness. I think any of the three of you are capable of playing this game as scum and I feel pretty useless because I'm not particularly good at combing through past interactions with a comb in order to tease out possible informed comments and I've now been wrong two days in a row so I don't really have a good sense of where I'm at because since I think everyone else is town (though Deas' case on me makes me think he's likely scum who is forced to make this play) the poe from my pov is by necessity everyone.

I am sort of confused by the idea that all of us are capable of playing this game as scum

Like to be fair I haven't played with GL recently but I find it sorta hard to believe he could play like this as scum, I mean I'm sure he's good at the alignment but I think this is more likely to be a town gl world

And I don't think I can play like this as scum at all. And while I don't expect you to just take me at my word that I'm town or whatever confidently asserting that you think GL and I can play like this as scum seems just odd? Like, where does that come from?

I think it's more likely to be a town gl world too. I also think it's more likely to be a town ausuka world. I also think it's more likely to be a town deas world.

The only slot i actively feel like they've played scummily is Nero/Titus and they're off the table.

[Thestatusquo]

Re: the deas quote. Responding to this because i think it's a fascinating response. It's attempting psychologically to try to seem reasonable by intentionally granting my point and then saying but yeah this is a town thing actually. But it's ignoring what I'm actually saying.

If you scoured my iso and found basically crumbs I'd expect you to move on to the other players in the game and scour their isos to also try to find similar crumbs. I promise you they're there or at the very least you'd have a similar in depth town case on them. But deas didn't do that. He found very meager crumbs that he admits aren't very much in the quoted post and said well there it is, time to make my scum case.

I wonder why that is. Could it be because I'm the only viable miselim?

[Thestatusquo]

Especially after MT comes in and does actual fuck all you think I would hold back as scum? I don't believe that you believe that to be quite honest and if you scoured my iso and this is the best you came up with I'm kind of not sure why we haven't seen you do a similar thing for GL and Ausuka.

I had presented some initial reasons why I thought Ausuka and GL were town and asked what you thought of those reasons but you didn’t respond so I haven’t said more but I can elaborate more if it would be of interest to you. I haven’t so far had any reason to believe it would be though

Ok but initial reasons why you think someone is town is not what you would be looking for if you were actually town digging to find the scum though. There's plenty of 'initial reasons to think I'm town' too and you've even admitted that you don't understand why i would do the things you're saying make me scum as scum so i would expect you to dig deeper than 'initial reasons' if you were genuine here.

[Thestatusquo]

It's like you looked at just enough of gl and ausukas iso to be able to say 'here's some cursory reasons to town read them' and then iso dove me to make a case' which is like... You know exactly how scum would approach today.

[Thestatusquo]

We're in really rough shape if deas is genuine and town here.

[Thestatusquo]

I very clearly didnt say I was evenly suspicious of everyone?

And I'm sorry, I do think GL and you are capable of playing this game as scum.

If you disagree with that its fine but I'm not going to like apologize?

I don't think I've read any of your games before but I've read a bunch of GL games.

[Thestatusquo]

my read on you is you're a good player who has played and read a ton of games of mafia. I assume you're a pretty capable scum player. If you'd like to make arguments as to why you can't possibly play this game as scum I'm willing to hear them obviously but I'm generally pretty skeptical of such arguments because I think self meta is inherently flawed.

But again I have to emphasize that "capable of playing this scum game" != "equally likely to have played this scum game." and its weird to me that you're reacting this way to the mere suggestion that you would be capable of playing this way as scum when like...that should be your goal?

[Thestatusquo]

I think the balance of probabilities before Deas' play today from my PoV was pretty even slightly tilted towards DV and not its much more heavily tilted towards DV because scum DV needs to go hard at me today and I think his play matches exactly how scum needs to play today. If we lim me today that's fine in a world where DV is scum because I don't see a world where DV isn't limmed tomorrow but I am worried about the case where DV is town because in that world I lose this game.

And I don't really think I have a way to play around that, tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

So like, I think what you're picking up on is I have a lot of uncertainty here and I'm trying to think if there is any way I can not lose this game to scum!you or scum!gl in the event that DV is town. Because similarly to not seeing a world where DV lives tomorrow if I'm limmed today I don't see a world where I live tomorrow if DV is town and limmed today and I know that in that world town loses.

[Thestatusquo]

That's the extent of it, though?

I don't think any of the three of you are likely to be scum. DV is more likely given play today but like I don't understand why you think its unreasonable for me to be worried about a world where DV is town too because I know I will be limmed tomorrow in that world

[Thestatusquo]

You seem to be conflating "Any of you could be scum because I don't think any of you are scum" with "I think you are scum."

Those are not the same statement and it feels like you seem to think I'm saying the second thing when I'm pretty explicitly not?

[Thestatusquo]

nah, I think what you're picking up on is I'm not very good at mafia and am especially bad at the act of going through an entire game and weighting things that happened a month ago.

I play off of current events and gut and reaction generally so this part of the game is really hard for me.

I can't talk about doubts because my doubts are "gun to my head I don't think DV is scum except in the context of finding everyone else town or technically mech cleared so I have a PoE of one."

And in that circumstance I am worried about being wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess if I have a specific doubt about you its that you don't seem to be doing the same level of digging into the game that GL and deas are doing but I'm also not doing that because I'm pretty bad at it so I'm not like going to push on it or anything.

[Thestatusquo]

I also feel kind of like you've been coasting for most of the game and I in particular today found your comment about not wanting to go against the reads of dead players because you would feel bad if they got it right and you didn't listen to be a pretty weird thing for town to say or think especially since you seemed pretty skeptical of relying on the reads of dead players wrt Ari's reads earlier in the game.

Like if you want me to shout out all the weird tin foil stuff thats been kicking around my head today that I haven't been posting because I don't think its very useful I can do that but there's a reason I haven't been talking about it?

[Thestatusquo]

I dont think playing to survive accurately describes any of my play this whole game. I also think playing to survive would certainly not look like antagonizing you and GL by talking about how you could be scum. But also yes I don't really know what you want me to say.

[Thestatusquo]

I see no reason why scum would be doing that today.

[Thestatusquo]

Much easier to play to survive the day, get the easy lim and then try to figure out the second lim tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

Much in the same way that deas was town reading me for lots of reasons but now they've been completely forgotten because he needs to get a lim on me for a case which I can only describe as "this progression is more likely to come from town, actually."

[Thestatusquo]

So like, I think what you're picking up on is I have a lot of uncertainty here and I'm trying to think if there is any way I can not lose this game to scum!you or scum!gl in the event that DV is town. Because similarly to not seeing a world where DV lives tomorrow if I'm limmed today I don't see a world where I live tomorrow if DV is town and limmed today and I know that in that world town loses.

I can sympathize with your feeling here, but given your overall view of the gamestate, shouldn't the main concern be losing to scum!Titus? or are you assuming she still dies tonight?

I feel like i have been extremely worried about Titus?

[Thestatusquo]

I always have limited brain capacity.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes my brain is basically a small metal marble.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: DV

[Thestatusquo]

is that not a hammer?

[Thestatusquo]

We should have simply asked that before the vote.

[Thestatusquo]

fun, on some level I'm disappointed we weren't left with titus wifom.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah ngl I'm feeling pretty defeated rn but i guess i would be feeling that way as either alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like ausuka's reaction to me yesterday even saying I think there was a possibility it was them or gl is cringe tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

Is there some problem with that word in particular?

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Ausuka

If GL is scum he can hammer here and put me out of my misery and if Ausuka is scum she can cross vote me and then GL can play a fun little mini game.

I just urge GL if they're town to go back and read the last few days and ask yourself what Ausuka has actually done to try to find scum. They've been skating based off of the 'vig VP' comment for basically the whole game now.

I don't expect to win here but I also am not going to post defending myself or anything because I think there isn't really a world where I don't get limmed today.

[Thestatusquo]

Good luck to both our contestants.

[Thestatusquo]

Because I'm so fucking over this game and I decided that I think ausuka has been riding an early town read the whole game while basically doing nothing to actually hunt whereas you have seemed genuinely interested in solving the alignments in the game.

I also don't think there's a lot of utility in waiting because either of you as scum are under no pressure to ever vote me until the very end of the day because I am just the obvious lim. So like this way either the game ends if I'm wrong or I get to know I'm right before you lim me and town loses. Which I now know I am so that's cool.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think I have a lot of agency here either way.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not gunna get into a back and forth here. You played a good game and you're gunna win but do you really need to call what I said bullshit even though you know I'm right?

[Thestatusquo]

Its so funny that you're accusing me of being the one being performative here, again, when you know that I'm actually correct and that my annoyance at having my thoughts called "bullshit" when they're right is actually real.

FFS.

[Thestatusquo]

The amusing thing also is that you've been setting up an eventual move over to me for several days in the way scum actually would which is by every so often feeding a post about how you have 'doubts' based off of one interaction that happened even though you've already ostensibly looked at those interactions tons of times and multiple times declared them to be townie for me. The scum way to move over to someone to push them wouldn't be to tell them that you feel really unsure about who the scum is and then only share those points when directly pushed to like you asked me to do yesterday.

Like ffs. The person setting up the shift onto someone you've been town reading all day here is you not me and all you have to say for yourself is "performative?"

As if townies can't be performative? As if you pretending to not see GuiltyLions posts wasn't the peak of performative? Come the fuck on.

[Thestatusquo]

There is literal 0 change you missed that guiltylion posted friendo.

So while you can mock my comment again despite the fact that you know its correct, that doesnt make it any less true.

I'm not going to get into a back and forth justifying myself but you called my comment performative which was just truly hilarious so I had to comment on it.

[Thestatusquo]

In the past page you've called my statement bullshit, accused me of being performative for saying I didn't like that and then mocked me for thinking there was little chance that you had missed the one of like 4 posts or so since the start of the day that wasn't yours.

But who is trying to rile up whom here?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't know why you think you need to prod me. There's literally nothing for me to say right now.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean, you're wrong, so I hope you learn from it at least after the game is over.

[Thestatusquo]

I've said my piece and I don't see any way I can convince you I'm town if my play so far hasn't already done so.

Which is kind of weak but it's what I've got.

[Thestatusquo]

I think ausuka played really well so I'm not sad losing to them, though I'm a little annoyed at losing to the rest of this scum team.

[Thestatusquo]

I think you need to drill down and ask yourself who has actually been concerned with finding scum this game, especially after day like 2 or 3, because I don't think ausuka has been at all.

[Thestatusquo]

That's the only way you're going to come to the right read here.

You're focusing on your re-read of the game and there's lots of associative stuff you're looking at and I've never been personally great at associative stuff so I am doubtful I can make compelling arguments about ausuka being associated with people more than me if you haven't already seen them, but I think you should go back to fundamentals and really look at my play and ausuka's play through the lens of "which one of us is trying to discern alignment and find scum."

And if you do that and determine its ausuka even though I think it's clear she hasn't been, I guess I'm at peace with that.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't have a lot of history of doing theatre like that with partners but I know thats not something you can weight very highly. As scum I'm much more likely to pick giant fights with town (see Anime vs Untrod Tripod in team mafia where I based my whole scum game around getting into 1v1s with ramcius)

[Thestatusquo]

I think its pretty unlikely given the relative positions of me slot and gammas slot at that time of the game that the scum team would decide that gamma was the one who should "go down" instead of me.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you disagree that you were doing that?

I got blinded by ausuka and didnt revisit the read like I should have. I think part of it is I've never felt a particularly high sense of agency in this game so I never really felt the need to do much to fact check myself. I expected to be limmed and then have my reads looked at as part of a pool of limmed player reads.

I felt like in particular the last few days of this game you've been putting in work to solve and it really felt like to me that you were actually interested in getting the lims right whereas ausuka felt really content to just let whatever town wagon was happening happen and didn't seem interested in taking part in any of the actual solving that went into them happening.

That's why I voted you. I'm a feel and motivation player and I just don't feel like Ausuka had any motivation to find scum the last 3 or so game days here at all, I was just too distracted by frog and fire to see it. Which is on me for sure.

tbh can you just hammer me now so we can all move on with our lives? Ausuka deserves the win and I want to stop paying attention to this thread.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok friendo.

[Thestatusquo]

GG Ausuka. None of the scum but you deserve this win.

[Thestatusquo]

feel pretty strongly that if I didn't have all the irrel nonsense hanging around my head this whole game this would have been a pretty easy dub, but I don't mean to take away from how well ausuka played. Truly a masterclass at the beginning, though I will say I was being genuine when I said your focus and care slipped at the end of the game, but clearly it was good enough.

[Thestatusquo]

yes you big goofball.

[Thestatusquo]

Also this game showcases why I hate replacing in to games, but on the other hand I still feel a weird sense of moral obligation to do it, but its like even though you can get all caught up (although I've noticed a lot of replacements these days don't even bother) you still don't have that same emotional connection to what happened in real time.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah also that thing where I missed guiltylion voting was 100% genuine

Have you guys never skimmed threads when you're sleepy and missed incredibly obvious things smh

I was grasping at straws. I just didn't see a path to not getting limmed today.

[Thestatusquo]

Also frogster I want to apologize. Now that I actually have the experience of playing with scum!you I don't think I would have ever eliminated you here.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: thestatusquo

whichever of you is scum please don't make me conftown in ELO again -.-

I'll be around to take all the Ls in postgame if this is wrong

Also this isn't my fault!! I was thinking of taking Titus to endgame but the mod said that if we eliminated Shea it would be everyone loses

I HATE endgame.

[Thestatusquo]

I lie as town all the fucking time.

[Thestatusquo]

I was lying pretty much the whole phase we eliminated fire because I was projecting like 20% confidence to 80% confidence

if I didn't lie as town I would never get anything done

Oh I wasn't even really considering projecting confidence as "lying" in this sense.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: thestatusquo

whichever of you is scum please don't make me conftown in ELO again -.-

I'll be around to take all the Ls in postgame if this is wrong

Also this isn't my fault!! I was thinking of taking Titus to endgame but the mod said that if we eliminated Shea it would be everyone loses

the more I think about it the more I think this would be an incredibly fitting end for many in this game.