Mini Normal 2304: Conway's Game Of Life [GAME OVER!]

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

projection. this guy is the real wolf among sheep.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Quiet Owl

[humaneatingmonkey]

Wow we really solved the game page 1, huh

[humaneatingmonkey]

soul reads mm tasty

can you expound dear espeonage sir

you had an entire story about this dude without even so much as having a conversation

[humaneatingmonkey]

I see a book I read the cover.

walk us through the thought process please good sir. i am too dense for these vague idioms and smart people talk

[humaneatingmonkey]

you are noted, acknowledged, and appreciated

[humaneatingmonkey]

you assume he believes he wont be townread by the post he made? he really seemed like he was GUARDING THE TOWN from STUPID EARLY WAGONS and SCUMHUNTING.

[humaneatingmonkey]

and yet no votes from you after the acknowledgement that I may be right and the heckling of Quiet Owl's posts.

Espeonage... you are not *gasp*... you are not partners with Quiet owl are you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bella, when you find the time, would you be able to share why owl is prob town

[humaneatingmonkey]

Im not sure scum would try to move the game so quickly. My gut is owl action far more likley come from town than scum

my idea is that scum would probably be eager to get towncred early game, and night owl seemed more like a performance of what town should be doing rather than an organic reaction to the situation.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes Espeonage what do you mean

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe I'm not seeing the overeager part because he turned real quiet since and have actively tried to be less aggressive when called out onto it. (the clown joke) Not consistent at all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What do you mean by eagerness to control the game?

It's like a pace setting thing. Especially like last night's posting. I touched on this with the going aggressive on reads early, especially when so little of the game has gotten to play yet as a potential pitfall, I believe I said that it can lead to TvTs bc we might all be arguing without a single mafia player around.

Add to that how they were posturing around the owl narrative and trying to coax votes out. I see that as trying to take a town leading stance which is a nice spot for experienced scum players.

wow this is a weird post buddy

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like they didn't really care who they were saying they were town reading.....just as long as they were town.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here. Chickenpox is a very stressful disease to manage.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I might be wrong but don't the two halves of espe's post contradict? Aggression is good but also bad? Leading town is town-y so scum want to do it?

You might be misunderstanding.
Espe's post describes me as a pacesetter, a narrative controller, and a boogeyman mastermind experienced scum trying to influence everyone to agree with my Night Owl observations so early in the game when we're still trying to have fun and be silly. Therefore scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

without the adhom

adhom reveal

[humaneatingmonkey]

reveal ad hominem, buddy. i feel like you were well represented there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

thanks for clarifying that i'm not a bogeyman. for a while there, i thought you were hyping me up as a major threat. i must have been imagining that!

[humaneatingmonkey]

and the distinction you make between idiotic aggression and scum aggression is...?

bumping this very good question

[humaneatingmonkey]

what do you mean there bob
when's the best time for it

[humaneatingmonkey]

At this stage Hu Tao, would you say Bob is more suspicious than Drew? Also, why do you think Drew is suspect and you seem to not agree with Espe that I'm scummy for lining up elims? Is it more suspect because Drew's reads particularly involves you and your townread?

[humaneatingmonkey]

basic, or wooden?? And I tend to assume the better of people's mafia play!! To my own detriment!!

He posted a lot better on his return. I'm not sure what to make of that. I would have given him the townread if he acted a bit more consistent, but I'm not even sure that's a realistic expectation to set for his slot. A big shrug is what I have with Quiet Owl.

I'm more interested in Espe now, but I've been in trapped in ego showdowns before because my N A T U R A L L E A D E R S H I P S K I L L S make people paranoid. I'm not sure I'll be very good at sorting Espe with his current angle, but I won't miss him if he's gone. Somehow an itch scratches behind my head: Could scum!Espe have targetted me because I'm the anti-low hanging fruit? Maybe scum!Espe would have framed scum attacking the low hanging fruit and cheekily do the opposite here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

man did i get pocketed or does peregrine look very town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I want to know which thought exactly it was

I'll help you with that bob. it was the lining up elims remark that Espe made in these two posts.

The lining up of lynches is also always something I am watchful of. In both cases, if owl is town, monkey is just being negligent if town, and if owl is scum it's a very aggressive theater strat. The common thread being that monkey lining up lynches is poo poo.

oh wait yeah meh I found it, HEM calls espeonage a potential partner to owl

I feel really good about Owl being town.

There is AT LEAST one scum in Esp/Hu

Bella is the wildcard, feel like they are informed.

This is also setting up elims as well by the way. Don't fuck everything up if this is just stubborn tvt.

Hu Tao thinks it's townie because he had the same idea in a previous game as town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

thats a very good point that i didnt even catch onto

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Espeonage
2 wacky 4 me

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you have other reads bob, on the other players, and would you respond to my question... you might have skipped that part.

[humaneatingmonkey]

in this case being informed is the scumtell because scum would be informed on who's town and who isn't. would you disagree?
is there anything you want dr drew to engage on that makes you feel like he's missing opportunities to give his thoughts on?

[humaneatingmonkey]

hu and bob seems like town vs town

would you elaborate?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi STD, great to hear from you.

Can you elaborate more on Espe being town? What I'm getting is your reads on Espe are all intuition... which is counter to my intuition.
Espe wasn't actually being scrappy early, and in fact was self-aware that being scrappy early leads to TvT. It's not even a misinterpretation of what I'm saying (which is: I wondered WHY he wasn't engaging even though he seemed as if he had a lot to say about Night Owl's performance, and we're still in early game), but the motivation he assigned to me around what I did and the exaggeration of me as "fighting for the leader spot" seems pretty malicious to me.

There is also weirdness around saying that I'm lining up elims with saying that both of them are partners -- but sheep has already called out that this is only a valid observation if he believes one of them is flipping scum.

I also haven't seen anything from Dunnstral that would make me think he's town, and already you're rating him so high. What am I missing about him?

And what do you think of sheep, Hu, Peregrine? You have them as yellows, and I have them as leaning green.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Espe - curious on your thoughts about Peregrine

[humaneatingmonkey]

espe

[humaneatingmonkey]

No real read of peregrine atm. They are in the town pile tho.

how come

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also I would ask that we not call other people’s play bad or poor!! There’s no need to do that even if it’s a strategy, and I think there are better ways to approach talking about someone!!!!!

I agree. I also read the situation as scum!Espe calling the players on his wagon bad as a strategy. Perhaps to discredit.

First, I'm not sure it's believable to be calling sheep bad town here. sheep should be suspicious in his eyes for his position in Espe's wagon -- sheep actually generates new ideas to fuel Espe's doom.

Heck, I feel suspicious about sheep's place in Espe's wagon. Scum has historically gathered behind me to push me into eliminating town. But I'm not sure that's what's happening here.

I also find his reframing of his push as unbelievable. He went from describing me as experienced scum pace setter and narrative controller... to a bad player that he doesn't want anyone to listen to because of ego? So does that mean he sees me - his primary vote and suspect - as town now? Help me here, as I'm not sure why he'd reframe his position otherwise. Does it mean he doesn't really see me as scum?

Nevertheless, I will not remove my vote. At this point, I heard enough. I will give the town a favor by not continuing to cross-examine Espe as that might be endless spam and will make an environment where scum can cover up easily. Although I hope those who disagree with me will try their best to dissuade me and those who agree with me to vote with me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

bob walk me through your wagon analysis and i'll walk you through mine.

let's say Espe is scum - do you think all three of them will combine into one wagon in case Espe flips scum?

for me, obviously not.. right? so of course, they'll probably scatter. in this situation, espe is still on me - so there are only two people making that effort into creating new wagons. now... how many counterwagons have been made in the past days, and how many of them make you think they're actually hitting scum?

So far, there's been you. Would you claim mafia?
Then there's Hu Tao. What's your read on Hu Tao?
Then there's a sheep counterwagon forming. What's your read on sheep?

So now it's your turn bob. Walk me through your wagonomics.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh! And there's Doctor Drew and Quiet Owl.

In fact, I'd say we're in a gamestate that I would expect if Espeonage was actually scum. There's a LOT of options you see. Players are still shopping. Nothing set in stone.

Lastly, can you give your thoughts on me, Peregrine, and Random Nurse? Do you think any of us are scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I haven't pushed you?
When has he said he's a self-proclaimed busser?

I just wanted to talk my man. Can we?

[humaneatingmonkey]

but doesnt chnage that you heavily responding to anything that runs counter to espe is scum.

Well that's kinda what the game's about, isn't it? You have your ideas. I have mine. We talk it out. Why does this bother you?

in and old game scum pt. his meta could of changed since was many years ago (2019) around the time i still played but pretty much says he has tendancy to bus day one

You played with him before?

Let's start over. Instead of you snapping at me, can we discuss our reads? Read #232 and #233 again and imagine I'm Mr. Rogers or something.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not scumreading any of sheep, peregrine, and random nurse. MAYBE if scum bussed, it's between sheepsaysmeep (weird interplay between him and Espe) or Peregrine (Peregrine was heavy on the pocketing language on me). so i'm looking for one or two scum struggling to build a counterwagon by taking potshots on the most vulnerable slots.

If StD is town, I can understand StD seeing it, agreeing with the "surface level contribution" of sheep, and voting that way because he's not sold on Espeonage as scum. Sure. I can see the POV. Heavily disagree with it all of it, but I can see it. On the other hand if I'm looking for partners, StD is doing precisely what I expect a partner to do. But he's not the only one.

But let's be clear. I'm not "pushing against ideas". I didn't just talk to StD because he disagrees with me. Most of the players do. I talked with him because I understand other people have other reads and I discuss my reads with other people - like what I'm doing now - because it gives me a 2-for-1 bang-for-buck return on my time: I get to hear more from someone's POV and I get better discussion out of the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Very defensive and discrediting.

Is it usually exclusively scum indicative?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I admit I expected Hu Tao's return to include more mentions of Espe and me, but it seems everybody's actively trying to avoid talking about us.
How about you, what were you expecting?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well, it's better than asking you in one post: What did you expect from Hu Tao's catch-up that pinged his defensiveness as scum? Were you expecting something else?
But now you also have my two cents.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I really don't like Hu's catch up here.

Very defensive and discrediting.

What's the point of saying this then?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Doctor Drew, this is the first time we're speaking together. I do not want you do anything. I want to know more about you to understand where your head is so I can read your slot.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You are doing that in a very strange, and suspicious way.

Enlighten me

[humaneatingmonkey]

I know this wasn't directed to me but why expect this? Cause you're both the top scumreads?

Do you feel I'm the top scumread? Espe is the top wagon, I don't feel like I'm the top scumread.
Why do you scumread me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't dispute it. I'm asking for a demonstration.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sure. Lots of huff and puff about me controlling the narrative. Control it yourself then. Show us why I'm scum. It's been days of you on the back foot and not much interaction with the other slots. Show me why I'm wrong.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I find it particularly odd for Drew to be coming in here saying Hu Tao is scummy for his catch-up and then immediately saying he didn't say he was scum.
What's wrong with asking for clarification?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I did say I have been sick as all hell.

Welcome back. I hope you're well now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And egregious why? Because I want some clarification?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I just don't think it's true. It's all there is.
You even added Owl there as an afterthought, but Hu Tao believes it's between the two of us. You didn't even give him the chance to show his cards.

Listen, I'm a very reasonable person. Mafia is fact-based.
If Hu Tao can point me to all the people who think I'm scum, and indeed show me that it's between humaneatingmonkey and Espe then I'll see it.
It's not like I wash over all the posts that are in this game. It's a question. Anyone can answer it. That's what this game is about.

[humaneatingmonkey]

for being absent

no one is saying this

[humaneatingmonkey]

I will vote between {Espeonage, Doctor Drew, Hu Tao, and Night Owl}. My priority is Espe, a tie between Drew and Hu Tao, and Night Owl only if no one has the appetite for the three.

I'll be waiting for Bella's replacement, StD's return, and Dunnstral's input. I want to know where they are in this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Then it's good we agree on Espe.
I will stay out for now until the three things I'm waiting for happen, or if someone wants to ask me anything.

[humaneatingmonkey]

StD, I would also like to see the busy work.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you're town, you might be tunneled. Imagine I'm town and re-read the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I understand you scumread me. But just imagine the two worlds beside each other co-existing. Like Schrodinger's humaneatingmonkey. If you're town, that's what you're supposed to be doing anyway.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like the chance that one or more scum are literally unreadable because of how fresh the game is and the number of disengaged slots is so high that not going after you monkey is the bit that wouldn't doing my job as town.

The first part of your sentence is why you should be reconsidering if you have the right perspective. You've been going after me. You scumread me. Fine. Go after the other slots as well because they're disengaged and unreadable.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We're the top two posters by far, we can chill for a bit as well.

Agree. I've been doing this. You have no idea how chill I am by the standard of how pushy I really am.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I feel like you didn't even read my post. Nowhere did I say I scumread you. I already said esp in the original post and you because you both had the top votes at the time

Looking back at it now, I misunderstood. It was because I wasn't even the top vote at the time we spoke about it, so I thought it meant that I was among your top scumread and the sudden change in stance pinged me.

I expected for you to talk about us because Espeonage suspects me, and Espeonage is the top wagon.

This is where we are.

Espeonage

(4): Peregrine, humaneatingmonkey, sheepsaysmeep, Random Nurse

Hu Tao

(2): Dunnstral, Quiet Owl

Quiet Owl

(2): bob3141, Hu Tao

humaneatingmonkey

(1): Espeonage

bob3141

(1): Doctor Drew

Not_Mafia

(1): Not_Mafia

sheepsaysmeep

(1): Save The Dragons

This is where we are.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh, and StD is supposed to be Not Voting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bellaphant is also in Not Voting.

I wish our mod didn't abandon us.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Would you mind if we speak in a more civil manner from now on? I feel like the frustration isn't even warranted when I'm extending a lot of goodwill toward you. If I am not clear in my speech, ask for a clarification.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay then, sir. Post-game, please enlighten me on how that's "textbook narcissistic gaslighting". Maybe if you really feel that I harmed you in anyway, you should report me to the mods. I mean it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

To be clear, I'm describing his behavior in the past days - only coming up to address me and defend himself. It was not what was scummy about him.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I maintain that I do not believe that I ever escalated my language to verbal abuse or anything that might be described as "going at someone's throat". Suspicion, interrogation, and pressure are a natural part of this game. I'm willing for an outside arbiter to judge the situation accordingly and make their sanctions, but otherwise, I suggest we move on from this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

go quiet owl show us the push

[humaneatingmonkey]

correct me, but i don't think i'm exaggerating things here

that's a hilarious side comment

[humaneatingmonkey]

at least Quiet Owl believes me to be sane, of all things

[humaneatingmonkey]

Surprise surprise!

I have not backed us up into anything. You chose that dichotomy yourself, and even added yourself because you are an amazing hero.

This day can still go either way - the replacement isn't replacing into a doomed slot. I have an elimination pool (although I think I jumped the gun on Hu Tao, since I misunderstood them). But I am waiting for Dunn and Bella's replacement... and now Espeonage's replacement.

Truth be told, I was warming up to the idea of taking Espeonage and I into day 2 if only I could take Espeonage out of his tunnel and discuss *other* reads in language that is less hostile. I was thinking that the most logical choice is eliminating Not_Mafia. It will save us the headache of having to sort him later. That's what it was all about establishing a dialogue with him. Maybe I was also in that tunnel, but it's hard if your top scumread is also scumreading you. It becomes a deathmatch at that point - I was avoiding that.

Now that a replacement is coming, I'm even more considering a Not_Mafia elimination.

But I'm still gonna be waiting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

p-edit: Hey, you're here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not sold on the reasons for Espe being mafia.

What do you think are the reasons for Espe being mafia, and why are you not sold on it?

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's... no.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I see that it's necessary to make a case then.

@MOD Are we allowed an extension for the replacement of Bellaphant and Espeonage? Thank you very much.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

We should do this. Why haven't we done this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Through what way? I admit I do not know how to play with his slot, yet alone read him.

[humaneatingmonkey]

is that alignment indicative?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Gotcha

UNVOTE:

I don't want to go back to Espe's slot before the replacement arrives or I make a readslist case. I also need to sleep and go to work the next day. See you all soon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

The deadline has been extrended 48 hours.

Thanks mod

[humaneatingmonkey]

Uh oh. Looks like we're gonna have to replace N_M.

[humaneatingmonkey]

*Prod

[humaneatingmonkey]

Invisibility and T3

[humaneatingmonkey]

hmm

[humaneatingmonkey]

the game stalled yes. it tried to be espeonage vs hem but it really isnt

[humaneatingmonkey]

i am willing to elim quiet owl

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Quiet Owl
Let's not torture the poor replacement

[humaneatingmonkey]

this game is probably Quiet Owl, T3, and Doctor Drew/Invisibility - gun to head

Town!T3 just votes and sees what happens, imo

If quiet owl flips scum then we're in a reality where the scum team is absolutely shit at controlling the narrative.

[humaneatingmonkey]

alterantively, if Quiet Owl flips town then the gamestate is scum sheeping or hiding behind my dumbass to carry a goat to endgame for them to slaughter. immediately eliminate or investigate me night 1 or day 2 to confirm this and avoid this situation.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it makes a lot of sense. we've been voting together for a while now. it's either we are a super townblock or something's wrong.

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

he's in hammer range without a claim. this is kinda stupid. i got excited. will hammer when the replacement claims.

[humaneatingmonkey]

there's an advantage to having his claim - regardless of alignment. i got sober and realized how stupid the rush was.

[humaneatingmonkey]

me too, hu tao. but we must exercise patience.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi so uh am I at E-1??

why do you have that impression buddy boy

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM is trying to establish control over the thread

T3, we've had games. Do you think this is scum-indicative?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also Espeon is being described as "uncivil" when I think it's more like "peeved" which makes 375 scummy cuz HEM is painting themself as the rational party while Espeon is being coocoo for cocoa puffs

It's frustrating being treated like that when you're trying to have a sincere conversation and you get things like "What?!?"

I never described anyone as "uncivil" and "coocoo". Stop this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's cool buddy. Just don't put words in my mouth that makes me sound like an abusive jerk. That's beyond this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not "comparing" my "mannerly ways" with Espeon's frustration. I was asking Espeon to speak with less attitude. If Espeon is frustrated, then so am I.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay nice dude, your portrayal is definitely fair and not a total misrepresentation of me. I know because your quotes include "hoohoo" in them, which usually found when you're portraying someone fairly.

[humaneatingmonkey]

my intent wasn't to make you sound like a jerk

we're cool. don't do it again. i know what you're doing, but sometimes lines can be crossed.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i get it. you need to undermine me. have at it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think one of you is about to be eliminated, and you're in a bad spot so you're extra desperate to regain control of the narrative - which starts by undermining me. so desperate that you're willing to paint me as a huge jerk because... what other alternatives do you have?

[humaneatingmonkey]

good night.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM, how do you read Invisibility currently?

The obvious agenda to undermine me was enough to call them scum. There was no inch of fair assessment of my alignment - he immediately went after me to discredit me.

He doesnt even bother doing anything else. It's a 13-p he just replaced into. Where are his other reads?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Scumteam is EXACTLY Owl, T3, and Invisibility.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: T3

[humaneatingmonkey]

if it is not obvious, i am willing to elim anyone from my scumlist. everyone else: who do you want to vote out today or is it just anyone?

[humaneatingmonkey]

humaneatingmonkey: Owl, T3, Invisibility
bob: Owl, T3
Invisibility: T3, humaneatingmonkey?
T3: humaneatingmonkey, Owl
Dunn: Owl?
Random Nurse: T3
sheepsaysmeep: T3, Owl
Peregrine: Owl
Hu Tao: Owl
STD: Owl

Owl: To be replaced
Dr Drew: To be replaced

Not_Mafia: Hammers anyone at E-1

We need six votes to consolidate and have N_M auto-hammer. So another one needs to be willing to elim T3 if it's to be possible. Otherwise, Owl already has votes for elimination.

The reason I want T3 over Owl is I want Owl-slot to at least claim, but he isn't here and he can't.
So let's do T3 instead because he's here and he can.
Otherwise, I'm quite happy with any of the three.

[humaneatingmonkey]

alright! critical mass indeed. std, make the switch!

t3, claim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Great!

T3 is all that remains

[humaneatingmonkey]

thanks bob

N_M can hammer, or he can wait before T3 claims. I don't think he cares.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah i guess. maybe tomorrow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's safe then. You can self-hammer now, Mr. T3.

[humaneatingmonkey]

without a claim, suboptimal.
owl's replacement will spew, if scum. or antispew, which will be obvious.
t3's flip is valuable still, plus he still has scum equity. it will be sobering for me.
but it begs the question why scum!t3 won't claim bodyguard.

in any case, people are asleep. I'm not sure we can hustle an owl switch the last minute.
we have no guarantee of n_m's hammer because it's 3 hours left.

t3, hem, sheep + n_m's hammer?
if std comes in, that's 6 votes. (+hu tao and peregrine).
we still need a guaranteed hammer.

so maybe our cue would be std coming in to switch votes.

[humaneatingmonkey]

there you go, you hammered him.

[humaneatingmonkey]

When's the hammer when you need it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Flavor 1.8

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-07-06 10:00:00).

Hammer time.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Peregrine, give me last minute reads before Kitty locks the thread if you can please

[humaneatingmonkey]

kick that corpse, dunn!

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am willing to explore other people's POVs because mine is obviously flawed.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have no problem Norwegian speaking what he thinks the narrative should be.
If you do not want Norwee to dominate the conversation, you need to speak more often and tell us what the narrative should be.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I really thought you'd be more upset to me than you were coming in here, Norwee. You typically hate it when I throw my weight around and it ends up flipping town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have not re-read. I plan to distance from the game and read it again, empty cup style. I also think N_M could be scum. Would you be open to eliminating him?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't know. Maybe he is. Really have no way of saying. He doesn't look like he's town, either. Think I'll park my vote here. VOTE: Not_Mafia

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm thinking a wagon on him will make the slot more readable.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm thinking a solid stack of votes and the movement around solid stack of votes will make the slot more readable. i don't buy that we won't have any information.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM why did you think there was potential for sheep or Peregrine to be bussing at that point but not nurse?

Nurse didn't feel pocket-y and was working on Espe from a different angle that I didn't think it was riding me. Of course, hindsight's 20/20.

Also since you though scum would try to build a counter wagon, what did you think when the alternative wagon became owl. And what lead you to believe that these wagons were svs rather than a scum espe/t3 and a town owl day one?

I thought scum would try to build a counterwagon if Espe was scum. Around that time, it wasn't Quiet Owl's name that was being pushed as "the counterwagon" but my name. Quiet Owl was an accidental top wagon after the unvotes on Espe's slot. I was willing to entertain Quiet Owl as town until the replace out - thinking Quiet Owl didn't appreciate the game state as scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Did everybody read Nurse's iso? Did anyone else have thoughts about it? Mine is mostly how he avoided Owl's elimination the entire time.

[humaneatingmonkey]

what are your thoughts on norwee's posting

it's not unfakeable. i do want to give him a chance and maybe we can eliminate a common scumread.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's mostly your predecessor, yes, unfortunately. i do expect you to be very good at either alignment so I'm willing to work with you. i want to believe in something.

i mostly think that people who were not egging on our 1v1 could be town. so I'm interested in trying to understand what save the dragon, bob, and hu tao has to say

[humaneatingmonkey]

{Norwee, Bl00dB0t, N_M, Peregrine}

imo N_M is best dealt with today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So how has your read on invisibility slot changed. What order would you rank the 4 players in your poe from scummiest to least scummy.

This series of posts, while trying to navigate out of an Owl wagon and into T3. Random Nurse felt like Invisibility was also a valid target? If both Owl and T3 was town, bussing Invisibility might be suboptimal.

HEM, how do you read Invisibility currently?

Hm..

VOTE: Invisibility

[humaneatingmonkey]

If i knew HEM’s PoE would be me/N_M i wouldn’t have given him any agency at all today and just pretend i scumread them.

It also is Bl00dbot and Peregrine and I thought you might like that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Multiple games where town are 1v1’ing and scum is trying to seem "reasonable" on the sidelines.

Can you see it happening in this game? What would that picture look like?

[humaneatingmonkey]

agree

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's nothing personal. it's just PoE. if the slot starts acting townie when replaced, I'll reconsider. we need more flips. i still think n_m is the best for gamestate.

[humaneatingmonkey]

After all looking back ive counted atleast 5 slips from nurse.

well that's too interesting not to elaborate now

[humaneatingmonkey]

let's start having discussions on what will happen after my slot flips town

[humaneatingmonkey]

i just want to ask how your reads will change after I flip town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

wild

[humaneatingmonkey]

im a town bodyguard finder. i visited someone but they're not a bodyguard. unfortunately it's not peregrine.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i really think this game is solved. everyone else is townie except Roden's slot probably and Norwee. i don't want post mortem reads but I think last scum is in {n_m, Roden, Norwee}.

thing is, you really can't rule out half of scenarios in this game without flipping n_m. it's the hardest thing to do yet it's supposed to be easy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bodyguard finder?
What would be the purpose of this role for town as opposed to scum?

I don't know, it's the role I have. I'm guessing only town has bodyguards and so it's like a green check.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's everyone's turn. the apology i can accept is for us to discuss what this game looks like after i flip town. i want to be part of that conversation at the very least.

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh wait

it's not a finder of town bodyguards right

it's just a finder of bodyguards

yes. it's just a finder of bodyguards. your guess is as good as mine.

[humaneatingmonkey]

unfortunately im town. so, that can't be it

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think only town have bodyguards and it's like a green check

[humaneatingmonkey]

The elimination we need is N_M.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's absolutely hilarious that you guys would rather keep the slot who anti-spews than me

[humaneatingmonkey]

Who anti-spews?

N_M. There's no event in the game where he'll ever be readable. It's so easy to just flip him and make the game easier. And there's a lot to be gained with that wagon. If it flips scum, it's gonna reveal I'm town... first of all. And if it flips town, there's a wagon everyone can see and read.

Just keep me for a day more. I like playing the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Does this mean we should make all bodyguards claim early or something.

wtf why

[humaneatingmonkey]

Excellent~! That's all I ever wanted.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think separate from claim I do find hem's recent self-defense wolfy I guess. I think their perspective on the game is hard for me to buy into. it's like oddly stagnant along with too confident

doesnt seem to evolve with this push on him which he thinks is bad - I feel like he should have more interest in evaluating people based on that? seems still quite extremely confident (poe'ing down to 2) despite d1 flips being off and unexpected. I now see it being sorta off

noting there are some pages I have not rly read. in the region of like 30-32

You might not like it but it's what i have. i don't think i ever really missed out on elaborating on my reads?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am unpassionate about HEM lim I think if it happened and flipped villa I would be kinda tilted and regret lots of things

it will flip villa, and it will feel awful

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah, but im not mafia. you also have to think about that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes, but it also makes sense that i don't want to be eliminated and want to be given another day?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont want you to consider my reads. it's incomplete and probably wrong. i want you to engage with me now because I'm alive. tell me how you think this game is going to go after I'm gone and i flip town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You can start by elaborating more on your read on me. Why do you think i am more likely scum than town in this game HEM?

I'm not sold on you being clear with Nurse's interaction. The fact that you've been mentioned and were "focused on" shouldn't be considered as clearing because it's just as easy to say that it was distancing. I remember as scum, a nerd had a scumtell on me about how much more often i say my partner's name than other players. Random Nurse never voted your slot despite throwing shades there and forgot about developing a read on the slot midway into the game. A lot of your content today also isn't that complicated to pull off if scum. And now you ran me up E-1, so that's a point against you.

I'm looking for slots who were enabling a hem vs espionage dichotomy yesterday and i think those who exercised distance from it are towny more than scummy. and i remember those who i felt as if distancing from that. because i was there. with nurse being a constant presence in that fight, it's a sign to look who's also around that. Sadly your slot was one of them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

wow great argument There are 10 players alive in this games that would all say the same thing and 2 of them are not going to be telling the truth.

yes but people can be confbiased into thinking they caught scum when they're absolutely wrong.

in this case, you're absolutely wrong

[humaneatingmonkey]

i want an extra day because if we flip n_m and he flips mafia, I'm spewed town. i can also do norwee's test and confirm my role.

hey, I'm goners anyway if I'm scum. and you're all gonna need to flip n_m anyway.

[humaneatingmonkey]

He still only wants to flip the same slots he scum read on Day 1.

this isn't true

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm waiting for everyboy's input before giving my results.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Or does this not count since you were wrong about Espeon instead? If so, what's the difference here?

it can still be true

come on guys. give me n_m, the chance to confirm my role, and then you can have my head.

[humaneatingmonkey]

there's a rush to fulfill my elimination.

i would like to remind everyone that my role is pro-town and confirmable

do not pee your pants in the excitement that you have caught scum. I'm still town. and i will flip town. the narrative against me is completely warped to have a one-sided interpretation where I'm only scum and there's not world where i am town. that's a case made by scum who just wishes to eliminate me and not sort my slot.

so if you're town. chill and really assess if the things i claim, the actions i make, are really gonna come from scum exclusively. and if it even make sense for scum!me to be saying it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's just a couple of slots that i suss asking me to share my results now. I'll be more open to people i actually townread

[humaneatingmonkey]

my own scumplay? i am very good. I'm charismatic, reasonable, and fun. it's hard to eliminate me, and it's hard to catch me make unsound/unoptimal plays.

but i am also very bad. i have obvious tells like incongruence in emotions because i can overact, slipping because I'm informed, and my tunnels are different - they're meant to perform rather than sort.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you are a cow

[humaneatingmonkey]

even more egregiously you aren't analyzing Day 1's wagons even though you believe scum hyped you up into voting townies.

my iso is very clear on what i think about day 1 and what i want to do in this game, thank you very much

[humaneatingmonkey]

I visited Save The Dragon and he's not a bodyguard

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is still pretty much my solve

Spoiler:

i really think this game is solved. everyone else is townie except Roden's slot probably and Norwee. i don't want post mortem reads but I think last scum is in {n_m, Roden, Norwee}.

thing is, you really can't rule out half of scenarios in this game without flipping n_m. it's the hardest thing to do yet it's supposed to be easy.

Who anti-spews?

N_M. There's no event in the game where he'll ever be readable. It's so easy to just flip him and make the game easier. And there's a lot to be gained with that wagon. If it flips scum, it's gonna reveal I'm town... first of all. And if it flips town, there's a wagon everyone can see and read.

Just keep me for a day more. I like playing the game.

You can start by elaborating more on your read on me. Why do you think i am more likely scum than town in this game HEM?

I'm not sold on you being clear with Nurse's interaction. The fact that you've been mentioned and were "focused on" shouldn't be considered as clearing because it's just as easy to say that it was distancing. I remember as scum, a nerd had a scumtell on me about how much more often i say my partner's name than other players. Random Nurse never voted your slot despite throwing shades there and forgot about developing a read on the slot midway into the game. A lot of your content today also isn't that complicated to pull off if scum. And now you ran me up E-1, so that's a point against you.

I'm looking for slots who were enabling a hem vs espionage dichotomy yesterday and i think those who exercised distance from it are towny more than scummy. and i remember those who i felt as if distancing from that. because i was there. with nurse being a constant presence in that fight, it's a sign to look who's also around that. Sadly your slot was one of them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i thought he was most likely bodyguard. i thought if he was a bodyguard, it would be the same as a green check.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i felt as if std was reading the game from a place of distance. so i thought the distance meant he could be a pr - and i imagine - a bodyguard

[humaneatingmonkey]

let's see if i'm right on n_m first. then you can kick me off tomorrow. give me the shot to possibly spew my slot town.

if you really think I'm scum, I'll spew as much as i possibly can. I'll talk my ass off. answer any questions. sing and dance.

and you can still elim me day 3! I'm not asking to never be eliminated. I'm just asking to participate tomorrow, after an n_m flip and a night kill.

what's there to lose? we need to flip n_m anyway, in any day. while i agree my flip is important for gamestate, I'll be much useful to the town as any alignment if left alive.

night 2 i can target norwee and get confirmed -twice-. then you don't need to be worried about me finding pr for scum because norwee consents to being targeted tonight.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hey hey hey im here

[humaneatingmonkey]

guysss it's not that hard. vote me later once you vote out n_m. it's nooooot thaaaaat haaaaard

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sure my flip will be informative but this isn't really the only day to do it. Flip me once you flip n_m.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Still the fact that HEM can't concretely justify

I can concretely justify it. STD has been lurking in and out, not adding fire to Espe vs Monkey when he could have. He was trying to cool it down. With Random Nurse's involvement in that whole thing, this makes him likely town. His playstyle makes him feel like PR. This game has bodyguards on it. It's not a hard thought process.

[humaneatingmonkey]

An N_M flip is NOT a waste. An N_M flip is NECESSARY to continue this game. It's a slot that puts us at a disadvantage. It promises to auto-hammer. AND IT GIVES US NOTHING.

WHY would you not want to keep a potential pro-town role/loud spewing scum for A DAY MORE to see what other information you might be missing? Like an N_M flip and a night kill?

Reminder that N_M can ALSO be scum who is lurking and there can potentially be only ONE active scum playing among us and the best way to know that is eliminate him right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Since you got to e-1 the first time you have hard spewed as scum.

The last line couldnt be more of hard scum claim. The fact your trying to pass your self as confirmed couldnt be more scummy. It doesnt even confirm your role let alone your alignment. What you claimed is even easier to fake than a vannila cop fake claim

Suuuure, if I'm scum then I'm hard spewing. Make this even EASIER to solve Day 4. Eliminate N_M on Day 2 and eliminate "spewing scum" on Day 3. I'll spew even harder by then.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM did you say why you have Peregrine in your solve? i kind of want to know this.

I'm looking for slots who were fuelling HEM vs Espeonage and Peregrine being flaky towards the end and still hammering T3 might have been a sign he was scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And if I'm sounding like I'm desperately defending myself to avoid elimination, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M DOING.

I have no idea how "low info" N_M's flip is going to be once we put votes in it and HAVE IT FLIPPED. That's like full info. No major backsies. We will know everything we need about this slot.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll do a magic trick. I'll target someone who volunteers and I'll tell the result here. I thought we already had that covered by me targeting Norwee? It doesn't have to be Norwee. Someone else can volunteer.

If I'm scum, it's in my best interest to stick to this assignment because I will probably die if I lie and get found.

I already demonstrated that I am a bodyguard finder by saying that STD is not a bodyguard. If scum, that was a gamble (or I spewed my partner by involving him into this mess). Let me demonstrate it again.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't think the arguments for doing it right now in lieu of you are very compelling

why is it not very compelling? what have i said about eliminating N_M first before me isn't true?

[humaneatingmonkey]

No, that's a truism that doesn't make any sense. Where are these partners that we kill and how do we find them?

If N_M is scum, we switch from looking for partners to looking for a lone wolf. Do you THINK I'm N_M's partner? And if so, why not confirm that worldview by killing N_M?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Absolutely frustrating.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's nooooooot thaaaaaaat haaaaaaard.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If N_M is scum, what do you think that makes me?
If N_M is scum, who do you think is the sole scum trying to blend in right now?
If N_M is town, who do you think are partners?
If I share my results and my results can be confirmed, how likely is my role town or scum?
If I share my results and I check a bodyguard, how likely is that player town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you flip N_M and flip me later, what difference does it make?
If you flip me and flip N_M later, how is that better?

[humaneatingmonkey]

17 hours remain and I'm about to sleep after a long day. I might be hammered before I wake up.

I was gonna post some last thoughts, but I'm probably gonna be wrong in my reads. I don't want to be the cause of another miselim.

My elimination is wild. I can't believe how hard it is to push N_M. Even though it's literally the best mech thing to do. Something corrupted that conversation to make you guys shut me out. Scum's in there somewhere.

Maybe those that pushed me? Though I'm beginning to wonder if the POV that I'm scummy might be the obvious take an uninformed slot would make. If I'm right that Random Nurse's voting on Invisibility was more "attack" than "distance", he should be spewed town here. And Invisiblity was hardcore convinced that I'm scum at the end of day 2. As did T3.

If that's the case - I would probably look between sheep and Norwee - slots who may have feigned future regret on my flip but voting me nonetheless. I would also reconsider why people townread Norwee here. Random Nurse never voted the slot despite shading it. That's classic distancing.
STD is a tinfoil one: He might be just informed and he knows he's well-positioned, or he's town who reads very well. If he's still at ELO, I'll be very suspicious.

Hu Tao is probably just town. When HEM vs Espeonage was happening, he frankly didn't care. As did Dunn. And I think that might be the common uninformed town take.

If given another night, I would have probably targeted Peregrine to confirm if he's telling the truth. Just for the kicks. It's probably as good as a green check. It would make me feel better about sheep, because then I'll know that there's a soft-checked town who might share my POV organically even when uninformed.

If N_M flips scum, I'll probably go for candidates with non-zero equity for partners like {Roden, Norwee} first than who I might think would be deep scum like {bob, STD}.
If N_M flips town, then probably two partners may be less threatened and hectic to go all out when the two elimination options are town. I can still see Roden pulling a great move by casing me here and turning the tide from his elimination.

Anyway: N_M → Roden → Norwee → bob → STD
You'll probably hit scum following that trail.

I really think we still should be eliminating N_M instead of me, but I'm really tired of having to explain why. I think I've done my best. You can all apologize post-game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am flipping town.

What I'm seeing is that I am town and what I'm not seeing is why you guys would be scumreading me, if that make sense.

What I'm also seeing is a slot that everybody avoids even though it's very limmable.

I have no idea why flipping N_M would be scummy here, especially since the game is about having the maximum information to bring to a possible ELO.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay I'm hammered

I really did want to be eliminated today, and I also wanted N_M's slot to be more readable in the future. I think I accomplished what I want today.

I also think the run-up of my wagon will be very informative.

Good luck guys. Don't get tilted.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I would also recommend the vig to not take heed the directions of the other players. Instead go for who you think is scum. He seems to have the right idea in this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i disagree. and also, why you didn't let me flip him then? lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

When game ends those who died or spectated let me know how I could have convinced invis today differently. Also was my soft not good enough? I thought if I made it more obvious I would get night killed. I'd like to improve

nothing you could have done. this daw was invisibility's loss, more than std and sheep's win. i think by yesterday, mafia started playing sloppily. they got really lucky with invis not being open-minded on elo.

that said, i don't understand why day 2 needed my elimination. surprised it was town-driven, but was also warming up to the idea of a {sheep, std} because i was beginning to understand that the uninformed pov naturally scumreads what the hell i was trying to do.

[humaneatingmonkey]

congratulations to nurse, std, and sheep for the victory!

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's good advice. i also think that if you're not considering town and scum versions of a 5-player match-up with lots of backlog and history you can parse through, then it's on you for confbiasing.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i wanna hear invis' thoughts because it must be shocking to be scammed like that hahahaha

[humaneatingmonkey]

i thought hu tao did well

[humaneatingmonkey]

in other news, i thought i got played like a fiddle day 1 by scum which was unfortunate because by the time i was beginning to warm up to T3-slot being town, we needed an elimination that can counterclaim and fast so that there could be consensus.

i think in today's meta, it's more important to be likeable as town than playing optimally in groupthink. i have to up my likeability game i also have a blindspot in my town game where i ignore reading the room in favor of scumhunting, whereas as mafia i perform very well pandering to the playerlist once i got a vibecheck of who they are and how they will vote.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i maintain that eliminating n_m day 2 would have been optimal for town regardless of my alignment.