open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[Titus]

VOTE: ProjEctRy

Don't mind me holding the newbie hostage but that's just my role.

[Titus]

Hey y'all. Not used to having daystart on these things; I'm guessing the protocol's randlim.

VOTE: Aisa

Did you play Blood on the Clocktower?

[Titus]

Interesting; so it's more of a rxn-based meta?

My feeling is that Bella's lack of disclosure on the tr itself after being challenged reads as scum. Initial post could be an attempt on getting a foot in first with an easy read to present with towny appearance, coupled with the openness of Bella's #41 leaving ambiguity in the conversation from T3's #26.

Not a strong presentation per se but it's notable imo. Dannflor reads as town to me as of this vote. I'm mainly in agreement with shaddowez on Aisa, no comment on the others for now.

VOTE: Kurtapika

Gut

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Kurtapika

Im new to the game so struggling to get involved, but whilst weak my initial suspicions would be for T3.

I’ve found his posts to be the most defensive. Particularly 39.

I also don’t like 63. I don’t like that he answered for Asia, whilst saying not to answer for her. Asia has been prodding slightly at T3 and I’m conscious whether answering for her was almost doing her a favour to get her off his back. Almost a ‘look im on your side’.

This read could be completely off, but I’d be curious to know peoples thoughts.

I feel Kurtapika is awkward and distant.

[Titus]

Fear not, for the Scum Queen has arrived to save this tortured town

I dispute this claim.

[Titus]

You can be the princess to inherit when I retire.

[Titus]

Fear not, for the Scum Queen has arrived to save this tortured town

I dispute this claim.

You can be the princess to inherit when I retire.

When I take my first loss as scum then I will consider relinquishing my title

I won my first 6. How many are you at?

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Kurtapika

Im new to the game so struggling to get involved, but whilst weak my initial suspicions would be for T3.

I’ve found his posts to be the most defensive. Particularly 39.

I also don’t like 63. I don’t like that he answered for Asia, whilst saying not to answer for her. Asia has been prodding slightly at T3 and I’m conscious whether answering for her was almost doing her a favour to get her off his back. Almost a ‘look im on your side’.

This read could be completely off, but I’d be curious to know peoples thoughts.

I feel Kurtapika is awkward and distant.

Why do think this is a scummy trait rather than a symptom of being new to the site?

It fully could be. But it's a fair gut thing.

[Titus]

the other actual reason I'm asking so many questions is because I watched a shitton of Columbo recently and am adamant to turn this game into my secret Columbo RP session.

Ok. I have just one more thing...

[Titus]

I won my first 6. How many are you at?

5. I guess I need one more to get on your level but unfortunately this game won't be it

If you do, I'll pass the torch. Might retire soon anyway.

[Titus]

159

God, paragraphs and line spaces need reinventing.

[Titus]

44 Outworld pushing a TR on T3 based on the premise that trying to jump start discussion is more a town thing to do. But couldn’t the same be said for scum, especially a player who knows how to play scum? Not sure we should take that as a way to read people. And T3 backs that up in 48.

Awkward.

[Titus]

SHADOWEZ

why are you ignoring the t3 wagon huh

Because he's my scumbuddy and I'm not bussing, obvs

Only scum with T3. The sass is convincing.

[Titus]

Black's probably town, I'm a bit concerned about aisa, one of the three people I don't know with really long names feels scummier than the others.

Titus isn't someone I'd lim today.
P-edit it feels like something I would feel worried about as scum, that's all.

How am I so townread? Not complaining but still

[Titus]

I won my first 6. How many are you at?

5. I guess I need one more to get on your level but unfortunately this game won't be it

If you do, I'll pass the torch. Might retire soon anyway.

Don't you start with that crap

I've made mistakes recently. Very big ones. Plus reality ain't slowing down.

[Titus]

@Project is this your first mafia game ever?

Yes. Is it that obvious? haha.

No. I think you're playing really good, especially considering how new you are

You're probably my top townread tbh. I don't really see newscum being this competent at radiating towniness

...you and me?

[Titus]

The gut feeling has to come from something

No. Gut feelings can be hunches or biases.

[Titus]

@Jupiter, Do you have an issue with gut reads? I'm not sure what you want me to say. I'm not the type to use words to say nothing. If it's a gut read, I don't have a logical explanation.

I'm struggling right now due to the lack of efficiency with words. I may not contribute many walls anymore but every word has a purpose.

[Titus]

Everyone, please try to use proper grammar. It's very hard to understand posts that don't have it.

[Titus]

sorry for the vague and unhelpful answer

Town

[Titus]

Spoiler:

Zoey Tung by Kuo Huan Kao for Bella Taiwan November 2023

vote count 1.5 !

Bellaphant (2):

T3, Black

T3 (2):

Nono, Aisa

Kurtapika (2):

Titus, Dannflor

Dannflor (1):

Skygazer

JupiterXV (2):

shaddowez

shaddowez (1):

OutWorldER

Titus (1):

JupiterXV

Skygazer (1):

Kurtapika

Black (1):

Afrayed Knott

not voting (2):

ProjEctRy, Bellaphant

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to over-represent someone's malice. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-12-06 13:48:14)

moderateur notes

• t3 is VLA for a short while
  
• burger

@ Mod

can you check the game countdown please. it seems to be stuck. and is it 12 days or 7?

thanks

it was 12 days from the start of the game day, which was november 24th. so slightly less than seven days now. i don't see it stuck, the number accurately reflects the amount of time left for me.

@Mod - Is Shadow a double voter?

[Titus]

kurtapika's 335 is good

no it's really not

Why?

[Titus]

Kurta is definitely going least resistance route.

[Titus]

To add to this I think fading low information slots is probably a lot worse than someone who's flip could give us some insight into the rest of the playerlist

Following up on the above, Kurtapika is recommending a policy lim on low info players in 335, so why the TR and no questioning of this play if you don't like it?

i didn't really read it like a policy lim, more like a PoE?

Are you reading the same post?

[Titus]

i mean they're voting skygazer for a similar reason to me voting titus right? i'm voting titus to get her reaction, and prompt her to be more active
voting lowposters -> get a reaction from the lowposter -> make them no longer a lowposter?

A low poster is a low poster. I've been prepping for a trial that started all week. No amount of pressure is going to change that. Pressure can generate posts. It's okay ish at the start if you're looking for a specific thing.

Voting a lurker for lurking generally gets nowhere in games with substantial content to get reads from. It's okay ish if hard townreading all actives but we aren't at that point yet.

[Titus]

Everyone, please try to use proper grammar. It's very hard to understand posts that don't have it.

is it okay if i type like this (without capital letters?)

I am not a grammar jerk but extensive errors like run ons without spaces between paragraphs are hard. I don't use perfect grammar but incoherent posts get ignored as if they were never made.

[Titus]

I have a pocket scumread if K is scum. Reading for the third.

[Titus]

I think it's k plus t3 plus my pocket read.

[Titus]

If you do a find on t3 in k's ISO you find zero substantial comments there. A bit of preflip but yeah.

[Titus]

JupiterXV I'm here now...

[Titus]

one quick question before i go to sleep: kurtapika, since you've never actually expressed scumreads (you've just been talking about who's best to eliminate), what are they and why? you can just drop a username and a sentence or two of reasoning. i just wanna know

Hi....

[Titus]

Ok gut t3 + k, no reasons just impulse

[Titus]

I guess my spaceship ran out of fuel before I could get hugs.

[Titus]

I don't think Titus is super town but I don't really think she's scummy either. Her tone/demeanor feels pretty relaxed in a good way imo. Her gut reactions/takes have seems pretty genuine and it seems like her posting hasn't really been geared towards trying to get town read, so I guess I slightly lean town on her?

I'm not saying don't vote her Jupiter but of your two scum reads I view shaddowez less favorably personally

I'm currently waiting for shadow to show up before I vote them- my vote on Titus mostly acts as a sort of pressure vote, I guess? to try and pressure her to be more active, if that makes more sense. Tbh that's kind of fair (Titus did ask why everyone was townreading them) but I still maintain that it's kind of hard to townread someone who's been consistenly posting but not doing much to add to gamestate.

What? Ok. Why not just vote Shaddow? And what I know of Titus is that you aren’t pressuring her at all

because titus is someone who i scumread, and i wanted to see how shadow would respond to me first... depending on that response it could make shadow more or less scummy. the reason why i vote titus is also to gauge her response, to see if she'll be more active, contribute more, etc.

how are reading Titus at all, there is not much content to go on and now she is upset because people are not using English grammar in a correct manner. So she's down to one word responses.

I have a theory that's open for comment but you're thinking only one word responses...

*sigh*

[Titus]

Also, Skygazer needs to post something game relevant. I don't think they're scum but that's not based on their content.

[Titus]

566 - Not every push by every scum is approved by a scumteam. I'm also not writing fan fiction of what might happen between scum members.

[Titus]

Also, you straight up recycled my 247 without attribution.

[Titus]

Lastly, you stopped right before my theory? Possible but...

[Titus]

thank you all for defending me from kurtapika

this, allows Sky to avoid a Mod prod and worse, so he can post this

i decided i want my iso to mostly look like an oblivion live blog

just finished all of those mages guild recommendation quests finally. time for some stupid custom spells!

A player of your standing doing this is rather infuriating and I would say insulting to the rest of us. If you want to play Oblivion go play it, or please play the game, or sub out.

It's not enough imo. It does not say who is town or scum or lay out any thought process.

[Titus]

Sky, I get what you're doing and knock it off. We have scum wagoned. Don't like my approach?

Here's a gift of perfectly fine carrots.

[Titus]

Black, thoughts on my theory? If you suppose K is scum, does t3 look like a partner? If we suppose t3 is scum, does k look like a partner?

[Titus]

Black, is my theory valid? Yes or no.

[Titus]

VOTE: project

*sigh* bad vote

[Titus]

Ok gut t3 + k, no reasons just impulse

do you have any townreads?

Yes. Everyone but k, t3 and my pocket read.

[Titus]

I must do work things.

[Titus]

Dannflor can you get back on K?

[Titus]

Titus I'm kind of uneasy that your reads are so static this game

Who is your mysterious third to the kurta/T3 team

Not you.

Idgaf you feel uneasy. I'll case the third if I need to in order to lim k or t3 in a close call. I'd rather have that slot think I think they're town. If I call them out, they won't bus ever.

I'd rather flip k, get them to bus t3 and lim them day three.

[Titus]

Idgaf you feel uneasy. I'll case the third if I need to in order to lim k or t3 in a close call. I'd rather have that slot think I think they're town. If I call them out, they won't bus ever.

I'd rather flip k, get them to bus t3 and lim them day three.

ok

im not opposed to flipping k still but there's a lot of time left in the day

Time to do what? I have a theory. I want to test it.

[Titus]

Like right now you're picking a fight with town Dann. I don't feel like we have to use time just because we have it. When we get cohesion, flip scum, next day. Chop chop chop.

[Titus]

Like right now you're picking a fight with town Dann. I don't feel like we have to use time just because we have it. When we get cohesion, flip scum, next day. Chop chop chop.

can you explain why projectry is town

Transparent town thought process. Stands up for what they believe in. Tonally good. Reads noob good town.

[Titus]

hey i'm back for like 10 mins before i gotta get back to work
titus, if t3 or kurtapika flipped town, what would you feel about the other?

I'd reassess tomorrow with new data and flips. I would likely still feel they were scummy and I was only off by one.

[Titus]

hey i'm back for like 10 mins before i gotta get back to work
titus, if t3 or kurtapika flipped town, what would you feel about the other?

I'd reassess tomorrow with new data and flips. I would likely still feel they were scummy and I was only off by one.

so independently scummy but likely to be partnered?

Yes

[Titus]

Yes...?

[Titus]

Yeah my pocket read is still

[Titus]

If you look at K's posting, K still won't call anyone scum. People could be scum. He'd want a flip on AK but yet doesn't vote.

K completely deflects the fact that there's no follow up on T3.

[Titus]

For the note, my pocket SR has used a rhetorical device I commonly use as scum and done at least one blatant pocket attempt

[Titus]

For the note, my pocket SR has used a rhetorical device I commonly use as scum and done at least one blatant pocket attempt

What's the point of posting this? Are you trying to give your SR hints that it could be them? Keep it to yourself and make your case when you reveal who it is

Crumbing a read is fine. I want the papertrail for when I drop the read.

What do you think of K's response?

[Titus]

Why are you so anxious?

[Titus]

That's fine. I'm not God. But instead I force them into an untenable position. No one should be annoyed at someone who isn't bothering them. I kinda get the feeling they won't bus by their posting anyway.

[Titus]

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

Kinda just tired of this dude and I think there's a decent chance he flips scum

Someone wagon this with me

No.

[Titus]

I'm not anxious I'm annoyed

Kurta is still town

That's fine. I'm not God. But instead I force them into an untenable position. No one should be annoyed at someone who isn't bothering them. I kinda get the feeling they won't bus by their posting anyway.

I'm not annoyed at you

What?

[Titus]

Can't see why anyone would worry about an unannounced scumread

[Titus]

Because you care who it is.

[Titus]

Titus seems town

What makes you think this? I felt that earlier but it has kinda weakened lately. Her last 40 posts have been about K + T3 + mystery partner and she townreads the other 10 players which kinda seems like a town tunnel but I can see a world where Titus is just using this theory as a way to seem busy. It doesn't really feel like she's trying to solve anyone. I would expect her to engage with Kurtapika at some point considering he's her biggest SR but she doesn't seem to have any interest in doing that

My biggest SR is the last person I want to engage with. It gives them the opportunity to look town. Doubly so when it's the absence of things that's scummy.

[Titus]

K also has a wagon.

What is K at?

[Titus]

I haven't read the substance on your post but I saw this. I am an American lawyer and it very much fuels my thinking.

I was prepping my close. Jury will have the case soon.

VLA until Monday

I will make an effort to reply to the substance though.

[Titus]

There are two major assumptions in your thinking.

1) All people are convinced in the same way. Maybe a case convinces you but others like to find the answers themselves. There is no universal convincing case.

2) Lawyers making a case is different here. However, I play more like a judge rather than a lawyer. I listen for the facts and make a ruling. Either a mod pronouncement or something radical is needed once a read is hard.

I used to play more like a stubborn advocate but that made me more heated and less effective. Sometimes I fall but I try not to.

[Titus]

As for my read on K, it would not be more substantial with more words. You could write a wall on my posts allegedly having no depth but the more words you use, the more you undermine.

My case on K is the same. It's about awkward speech and the absence of logical follow through with T3. I'll spoiler a longer case tmo for you.

As for T3 you will get more comfortable about reading teams when you play more. K is treating T3 like a partner and my secret read is treating K like I would if I was scum with K.

[Titus]

Can you rephrase everything from Mainly onward? I read that 3 times and was huh?

[Titus]

Project, I said that I would spoiler a case today so of course my response wasn't a case.

My initial read was weak, however I played in the background just listening. My ruling is K + T3 plus a third. Could it be wrong? Of course, but I'd need a flip to change my mind. I'll deliberately be holding back by analysis on the third, even in my thinking.

[Titus]

Things on K.

60 "My feeling is that Bella's lack of disclosure on the tr itself after being challenged reads as scum." This is overly formal and reads like a lawyer writing it. If it read naturally, then it would say something like "Bella not disclosing the TR is scummy.". The rest of the post is particularly hard to understand but largely states that Bella's postings are ambiguous which is not the gist I see at all.162 Copies defense from Black. 335 Lim the no posters = avoid conflict 339 All votes are random. Town should post content. Many words. Pointless message. 566 "Curious if you'd be able to walk me through the thought process in scum chat that you would guess as theoretically having happened for me to suggest this move." - Guessing the thought process is something easily handwaved. IT's what could happen and it's why proof beyond a reasonable doubt isn't really a thing in mafia.

Also the feeling of being

forced

to find a read outside of current TRs is bad. If his scumreads were genuinely townread, he should say so. However his goal is to survive, so he can't go there.

My largest reservation is that perhaps English isn't K's first language.

[Titus]

VOTE: T3

Titus would you be able to agree to this?

I would but I'm not going to dismantle the K wagon for it.

[Titus]

I also believe kurtapika is largely a town driven wagon

Which makes the non existence of a counter wagon pretty weird

The nearest we’ve come is skygazer

T3 has been vla and the third won't use their limited cache to create a counter. They've played passively with their vote to try and get a counter going to no avail.

[Titus]

Why?

[Titus]

It is relevant because people speaking second languages tend to use more formal language (not idioms) which can come across as stilted and artificial which is a major complaint I have about you.

[Titus]

@Aisa, why aren't you voting anyone?

[Titus]

Given the consensus, it's probably best to outright state. Black's the third in my theory.

[Titus]

VOTE: T3

[Titus]

Hi camel

[Titus]

T3, why are you scumreading me?

[Titus]

Just going to highlight Black's shift on me happens when I out she's my scumread. T3 votes me when Skygazer won't go.

The random suggestion that me and OutWorldER are scum is weird.

[Titus]

Wasn't the shift all the way back at post 800???

Well before. Black's been the mystery player. I think the two of you are in panic.

[Titus]

The fact that neither of you asked me to justify the mystery player suggests you believed I was genuine all along (which I was).

[Titus]

Black, it did make sense to crumb my read. I wanted to be trackable without alerting you of my read. You seemed oblivious which partially worked and now you are desperately shading me.

@outworlder, what is a ham sandwhich?

@Alfred, I don't disagree with you but T3 has more traction. What's your read there?

[Titus]

Titus being stubborn feels exactly like how it was when I played with her the two other times I did so. Granted both of those times were 3 years ago, so perhaps my meta is a bit out of date. But Titus's post ring to me more like tunneled/confident town rather than agenda-pushing maf.

Why did you wait until she was being pushed to share this read?

This reads like flail.

[Titus]

The fact that neither of you asked me to justify the mystery player suggests you believed I was genuine all along (which I was).

I wanted you to stop crumbing about the mystery player because it didn't make sense for you to do that according to your plan in 723

And yeah I townread your preflip stuff at first but I assumed you would start solving outside of that at some point. When you said you townread everyone except for your solve that's when I started to think you could be scum

This is definitely flail and definitely nonresponsive.

[Titus]

We have a little more than 1 day left. T3 is at L minus 2.

[Titus]

I don't see you voting T3 according to the last vc camel. Is it wrong? If it is, can you revote?

[Titus]

That's L minus 1. T3 should claim.

[Titus]

Jesus Christ, do we have time to swap Dann?

[Titus]

VOTE: Black

[Titus]

This is an interesting setup given Black got counters and T3 largely didn't.

[Titus]

I will note however that T3 and Black largely haven't voted next to each other which is consistent with my usual VCA theory.

[Titus]

That's very interesting. I must reconsider Skygazer but my solve is likely right.

[Titus]

VOTE: T3

[Titus]

I'd bet my bottom dollar on T3 or Kurtapika being scum.

Sure, it's possible that scum got unlucky with an attack but there's several people who just aren't scum. The doctor can't heal Dann, AF, and Bella, not to mention myself but maybe I'm not that obvtown.

Scum wouldn't send their lurky member, K, to handle the kill as he'd be more likely to be jailed.

It's peeking through wifom a bit but I'd bet it's T3 and K here.

[Titus]

I would vote kurtapika before T3

We can eliminate both of them but I feel much stronger on T3. The difference is like night and day.

[Titus]

I feel good about Aisa so far. It feels like she's engaging with people in a cooperative and amicable way and it feels like she's trying to genuinely figure them out

I like T3 here too. 15 feels like he's mocking bella considering his read in 26 which is kinda mean but not necessarily scum indicative. I like Project's read on T3 in 91 and I had similar thoughts when reading through, so I like Project so far as well

I agree with OWER's read on Jupiter in 86 and I like how inquisitive and engaged OWER feels

Nothing is really pinging me as scummy yet

Straight up rule of 3.

[Titus]

I like T3 here too. 15 feels like he's mocking bella considering his read in 26 which is kinda mean but not necessarily scum indicative. I like Project's read on T3 in 91 and I had similar thoughts when reading through, so I like Project so far as well

Black - I’m taking ‘like’ to equate to leaning town but is there more to what is making you lean town for T3?

I found the reasons in your post to be fairly weak to form a town read, even though part of it is based off of shared thoughts with me. Whilst I gave thoughts in 91 as to what I found to be town leaning about T3, I though those thoughts were very basic and could easily be inapplicable to a more experienced player. Presumably you don’t agree? (Or agree basic but still applicable ha)

The other part of your comments regarding him point out that him being mean is not necessarily scum indicative, but it wouldn’t make me lean Town either.

I’m just curious if there is more that I’m missing as to why you (or anyone else) think T3 is leaning town.

I would say it's more of a townlean than a full on townread, and yeah it's definitely weak. My reads generally are early on. There's not much more to my read other than thinking T3 doesn't have to be doing this if he's scum here. And thinking about his mocking of bella a little more I feel like that's more likely to come from town. I don't think scum would want to make enemies on page 1

More from Black, just leaving it here.

[Titus]

@Project is this your first mafia game ever?

Yes. Is it that obvious? haha.

No. I think you're playing really good, especially considering how new you are

You're probably my top townread tbh. I don't really see newscum being this competent at radiating towniness

This is not likely S v S. This is the thing Black would put into a scum PT with a partner if she plays scum like I do.

Second, ProjEctRy was throwing a lot of shade at the time.

[Titus]

well i feel night and day stronger on kurtapika

I hear you but you aren't getting it. I'll find a way to persuade you.

[Titus]

Skygazer is not scum by vca.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.9 !

Kurtapika (5):

Titus, Bellaphant, Aisa, Dannflor, JupiterXV

Skygazer (2):

ProjEctRy, OutWorldER

ProjEctRy (1):

Skygazer

Bellaphant (1):

T3

T3 (1):

Nono

Black (1):

Afrayed Knott

Afrayed Knott (1):

Black

not voting (2):

Kurtapika, shaddowez

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to over-represent someone's malice. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-12-06 13:48:14)

moderateur notes

• i have T3 v/la for another short while
  
• i have Afrayed Knott v/la for a slightly longer while
  
• i have Black v/la for the same while length as Afrayed Knott
  
• burger

Spoiler:

vote count 1.b !

T3 (5):

Dannflor, OutWorldER, Titus, Aisa, Black

Kurtapika (2):

Bellaphant, JupiterXV

Skygazer (1):

ProjEctRy

ProjEctRy (1):

Skygazer

Black (1):

Afrayed Knott

Aisa (1):

T3

Skygazer (1):

camelCasedSnivy

not voting (2):

Kurtapika, shaddowez

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to over-represent someone's malice. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-12-06 13:48:14)

moderateur notes

• prodding afrayed knott whose vla is over
  
• burger

Spoiler:

W. Ming

: Lingering Garden 流园 No.2 (2015)

vote count 1.c !

T3 (5):

OutWorldER, Titus, Aisa, JupiterXV, Skygazer

Skygazer (2):

ProjEctRy, T3

Kurtapika (1):

Bellaphant

Black (1):

Afrayed Knott

Skygazer (1):

camelCasedSnivy

Titus (1):

Black

not voting (3):

Kurtapika, shaddowez, Dannflor

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to over-represent someone's malice. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-12-06 13:48:14)

moderateur notes

• burger

Spoiler:

Kelly Sinnapah Mary - The Fables of Sanbras, 2023

vote count 1.d !

Black (5):

Afrayed Knott, Dannflor, Titus, Skygazer, OutWorldER

Skygazer (4):

ProjEctRy, T3, camelCasedSnivy, Black

T3 (2):

Aisa, JupiterXV

Kurtapika (1):

Bellaphant

not voting (2):

Kurtapika, shaddowez

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to over-represent someone's malice. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-12-06 13:48:14)

moderateur notes

• i just accidentally had two separate blocs of skygazer votes before
  
• burger

Spoiler:

vote count 1.final !

Black (8):

Afrayed Knott, Dannflor, Titus, Skygazer, OutWorldER, shaddowez, JupiterXV, Bellaphant

Skygazer (4):

ProjEctRy, T3, camelCasedSnivy, Black

T3 (1):

Aisa

not voting (1):

Kurtapika

with 14 alive, it took 8 to over-represent someone's malice.

moderateur notes

• ah, yes, hm. Burger

Aside from Afrayed Knott, the wagons on T3, Black and K all overlap which suggests Black is not being bussed. Black's selfhammer was a ploy to get us to turn on each other.

[Titus]

well i feel night and day stronger on kurtapika

You sweet summer child. Come to my house. Eat cookies. I love cleaning up cookies.

[Titus]

well after review, i'm fully convinced that T3 is scum now, so i don't think my vote will change today

ebwop

every time i fuck up i feel like the edit button is taunting me

Good. You like a star chart? You can see the constellations.

[Titus]

ok.... so my thoughts are T3/shaddow or project....

just not liking what I saw from T 3, and to be frank an outside edge to Sky...

but ok there is the whole town inter fighting, first things first, I've been calling Black all day 1. that is a deep deep bus if I even had the notion to do it. So I think we need to look at T3, Shaddow, Project and to a lesser extent Sky.

Hell yes, hell no, ProjEctRy needs to shave but that'll come with time probably

[Titus]

Dann, Titus, Ower

everyone else is scum or leaning scum right now

Ok. Let's talk. Why won't you vote T3?

[Titus]

I will vote, but we have time, we need to be definitive on who is not complicit

Nah. This game is near mathematically over. If we hit scum today, and it's a high liklihood we will, then scum will struggle mightly to win.

[Titus]

We have 13 alive. Twelve if we flip a scum.

If scum kill anyone but the doctor, (jailkeeper misfires on not doctor), then that person is clear.

Game becomes follow the jailkeeper.

[Titus]

You, Titus, dann, aisa, Jupiter, shadow. At least one is wrong!

Nope. Sounds good to me.

[Titus]

why are you pushing this?

Because it's much more likely the jk has a guilty than a doctor heal.

[Titus]

why are you pushing this?

Because it's much more likely the jk has a guilty than a doctor heal.

but what if the Doc protected the JK and the JK stopped the hit?

That's what I am saying...so we only vote wagons from yesterday that aren't Skygazer...

[Titus]

why are you pushing this?

Because it's much more likely the jk has a guilty than a doctor heal.

but what if the Doc protected the JK and the JK stopped the hit?

That's what I am saying...so we only vote wagons from yesterday that aren't Skygazer...

so where do we go, considering we have a day in hand, T3?

Yes.

[Titus]

That or K based on a no kill but T3 preferred unless a jk says otherwise. (Won't happen).

[Titus]

got you. funny though that you think the JK will not say otherwise, please tell me why?

Because a jk wouldn't jail to protect here with a doctor and this many obvtown. A jk and a doc cannot protect them all. If scum fake a jk, then they just create follow the jailkeeper.

[Titus]

T3 is also hardclaimed VT so he can't.

[Titus]

There is technically justification for a K wagon but I find it much more likely T3 given he was more townread.

[Titus]

I have not read anything yet but I pre-typed some thoughts during the night. Will properly catch up later as currently I'm occupied today.

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

Spoiler: Wall - cut to relevant, brackets mine

Current Townblock: Myself, Titus, Dann, Skygazer, Project, ¿¿Bellaphant??

Kurta also heavily pushed by Dann but wagon fizzled out, townread by Black, but gamestate theory presented by Dann beforehand still holds weight. Probably town? [Postulate the K wagon fizzled due to early in the day and Black defense]

Afrayed Knott pushed by Black in a really soft way, and Black never really tried to get anybody on the wagon. Seems very much like distancing. Most confident in this partner equity. [Postulate: Black needed a town to join before pushing as Black's push was shopping for anything but T3.]

T3 was on the chopping block and both him and Black tried to setup a counter-wagon on Titus. Don't see a reason for Black to get off T3 if he's a mislim, and the sudden shift in reads suggest she was getting ready to bus but switched to try and counter momentum on the T3 wagon. Unless she was just trying to get Titus speed-limmed so she didn't have to deal with the NKA of night-killing her? "I'll deathtunnel Titus if T3 flips Town" feels like scum setting up a chain mislim. But why try to get Titus limmed off T3's case if you were setting up to lim Titus tommorow off a T3 mislim? Occam's Razor probably just says T3 is scum here. [Follow this. Why would I need to be nightkilled enough to try and fabricate suspicion where non existed?]

Biggest suspicions in T3/Afrayed Knott. Bellaphant and Skygazer least confident townreads. Self-hammer at 24 hours left in deadline feels strange, optimal play here is to hope Town's momentum fizzles out and they no lim, thinking Black tried to make it look like Bellaphant was bussing. Weak TR though. [Postulate: Black needs all the people who were on T3 and shifted to Black to turn on each other.]

Skygazer vote on Black seems too early to be a bus when she could've tried to continue pushing T3 or try to add credibility to the case against Titus. Skygazer probably only scum in a Black/Skygazer/T3 world and preferred bussing Black over bussing T3, but that seems unlikely for a multitude of reasons.[Postulate: Town weren't biting on limming me and there were town biting on Skygazer enough to make it viable if town split focus between T3 and Black.]

Please see above.

[Titus]

*sigh* i gtg reality.

[Titus]

In general need more info but it can.@Skygazer

[Titus]

Skygazer pm me.

[Titus]

T3, why can't you be scum with K? Is K town?

Am I town?

[Titus]

okay. i'm 1v1ing T3. pretend i have a cop guilty on him or something. if he flips town then we can kill me tomorrow. but he won't flip town, i'm like 99% confident at this point (and i'm usually right when i'm this confident)

I am in here. I'll have a second guilty.

[Titus]

T3, why can't you be scum with K? Is K town?

Am I town?

[Titus]

afrayed: what do you think about my points against T3?

you mean kill him today, and if he is not scum we kill you tomorrow?

ok.. let's lim T3

You need to revote. If I'm wrong, no harm.

[Titus]

I suspect you for entirely different reasons.

pray tell

I have not read anything yet but I pre-typed some thoughts during the night. Will properly catch up later as currently I'm occupied today.

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

Afrayed Knott pushed by Black in a really soft way, and Black never really tried to get anybody on the wagon. Seems very much like distancing. Most confident in this partner equity.

It was there in the post. Adding on, You say you were the biggest proponent of Black's lim, but outside of simply arguing with her you really didn't make any attempt to get anybody on her wagon before she got speed-limmed at EOD. I don't think any of your interactions there can't be theater, and Black's posts towards you give off major partner vibes.

If Black plays scum like I do, it's not theater.

[Titus]

I suspect you for entirely different reasons.

pray tell

I have not read anything yet but I pre-typed some thoughts during the night. Will properly catch up later as currently I'm occupied today.

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

Afrayed Knott pushed by Black in a really soft way, and Black never really tried to get anybody on the wagon. Seems very much like distancing. Most confident in this partner equity.

It was there in the post. Adding on, You say you were the biggest proponent of Black's lim, but outside of simply arguing with her you really didn't make any attempt to get anybody on her wagon before she got speed-limmed at EOD. I don't think any of your interactions there can't be theater, and Black's posts towards you give off major partner vibes.

If Black plays scum like I do, it's not theater.

OK, so does she play scum like you do?

In my opinion she does. Her conduct fueled my theory once I suspected her. I'm on the road, so I can't lay it out. I feel evil but a lot of moves were made to have Black accidently tell me I was on the right or wrong track.

[Titus]

T3, readslist?

[Titus]

No one has broached this yet, but why no night kill?

Think it through using likely assumptions

[Titus]

Which is more likely, a doc heal or a jk block given the gamestate?

[Titus]

or both?

Least likely. However if both happened, the jk caught a scum.

[Titus]

So suppose you, do you look for scum? Of course. Then who is the towniest scum?

[Titus]

So suppose you, do you look for scum? Of course. Then who is the towniest scum?

You are jk. Ebwop

[Titus]

The doctor can't heal Dann, AF, and Bella, not to mention myself but maybe I'm not that obvtown.

why can't they? dann seemed incredibly towny to me, i don't see a world where doctor isn't on dann n1

I meant the doc and the jk combined can't heal all of them. Poor wording.

[Titus]

then good game to the JK

Think it through. Who do you jail if you're looking for the towniest scum?

[Titus]

So suppose you, do you look for scum? Of course. Then who is the towniest scum?

You are jk. Ebwop

ok, I do need to read ahead... if I was JK last night I would have targeted T3 or Shaddow

Then your vote should be on T3 or Shadow logically. That's the no nightkill explanation.

[Titus]

my inclination is that black's teammates are well positioned off her flip

also revisiting this comment- this is what i'm thinking atm but i can't really think of any good potential partners beyond my previous scumreads and even then, aisa doesn't pair cleanly (since i also got the vibe that black is pocketing aisa)
speaking of pocketing, titus, you mentioned that your third scumread had been pocketing people. what people were black pocketing?

Aside from Afrayed Knott, the wagons on T3, Black and K all overlap which suggests Black is not being bussed. Black's selfhammer was a ploy to get us to turn on each other.

sorry about this but i feel particularly confused- how does this confirm sky as town? i don't understand the vca. could you explain it?

Bookmarking these to respond after I rest.

[Titus]

So suppose you, do you look for scum? Of course. Then who is the towniest scum?

You are jk. Ebwop

ok, I do need to read ahead... if I was JK last night I would have targeted T3 or Shaddow

Then your vote should be on T3 or Shadow logically. That's the no nightkill explanation.

logically speaking yes. but then there is gut, where is your gut telling you to go

T3 needs to be limmed. That's my gut. I see no world where T3 wasn't jailed because I expect the jailor went through the same process as it is clear and simple.

[Titus]

So suppose you, do you look for scum? Of course. Then who is the towniest scum?

You are jk. Ebwop

ok, I do need to read ahead... if I was JK last night I would have targeted T3 or Shaddow

Then your vote should be on T3 or Shadow logically. That's the no nightkill explanation.

but you're not jailkeeper, so why is your vote on t3 if you weren't the one targeting him?

I never said I wasn't the jailkeeper. The whole thing is a thought exercise. If I am the jailkeeper, you can bet your ass I jailed T3.

[Titus]

Why the hell would I submit the kill if I was scum

Who would you have jailed? Why? We know you aren't the jk but can't you see you're the universal jailkeep target?

[Titus]

@JupiterXV responding now. Will take a few.

[Titus]

@Jupiter 1349 I'm not quoting the entire post, but I think I can answer your questions by explaining our interactions.

We start with some witty banter that was fun.

When Black makes 256 at ProjEctRy, I started to suspect her. The early posts might have been disagreements, but Black knows what newbie scum can do. We've done it. This suggested a pocket of ProjEctRy. 258 suggested to look more at what ProjEctRy was pushing at the time.

If you look at posts 249 and 251, ProjEctRy was denying townreads on AK, Bellaphant and me. In 144 ProjEctRy wants to deny townreads on Dann. Altogether, ProjEctRy was scumhunting, but being wrong in his first game.

This promotion and buttering of wrong reads and chaos is exactly what I'd do as scum.

I know however, if you take a shot at the scumhead, you'd better not miss. So I had to get people to my cause while they think it's their idea. Evil and manipulative, sure but I also had reasons for staying in the back.

I kept watching.

In 260, Black talked about "town vibes" from K, which was the opposite I got but maybe it was the language barrier. Maybe Black was pocketing. So I checked her ISO more. This is more past reading than I ever do in a game, but Black is worth the challenge.

We'll address Black's interactions with K as we progress. For now, she's fine with having "vibes" on K but disapproves of gut hunches I had on K. She "can't argue" 131with vibes for townreading Aisa. 124 The implication is that Black would want to argue. She does want something different from Bella, which strongly suggest Bella is town and so is Aisa.

We then have a conversation about "gut" which is really synonymous with "vibes". I mention in 152 that my K scumread is gut. In 197, Black promotes ProjEctRy based on "gut". ProjEctRy is denying townreads in 144 like we established. At this point, Black is using ProjEctRy to throw out reasons to attack town, which is a common tactic I use. Promoting bad reads.

But I digress. Black in 269 is questioning JupiterXV townreading Dann because of gut and nothing Dann did. This is an implication that if JupiterXV stuck just to logic Dann would remain out of the townblock. This is also notably the first time Black straight up objects to gut. She only offered a different opinion on K. This suggests both Dann and JupiterXV are town. Her renewing the objection in 275 reinforces this. While it's not an issue being a hypocrit in a mafia game, the hypocrisy reveals alignment.

282 and the others in that section are a pocket attempt on JupiterXV. 313 Black is objecting to shaddow sticking up for Aisa's little evidence to TR me. This suggests Shaddowez is town along with Aisa.

348 Black reasonless townreading K. In 349 Black suggests that K's content is better than Sky and Nono. She accuses AK of shade. She takes the opposite position that we should eliminate in the active posters because 1) town wouldn't likely go for a no lim in a cohesive gamestate and 2) with T3 v/la and K being low content himself, an active lim is better as it had high odds of being town.

383 I am taking a back seat but watching. 419 Scum generally don't apologize for actually helpful posts.

463 Black walks back a townread on K. The backing off comes when K isn't a wagon. 477 more evidence JupiterXV is town.

543 is where I drop a hint I think Black is scum. If I shoot there, I cannot miss.

I'll include more solve tmo. But TLDR Project, AK, Dann, Aisa, JupiterXV, Bellaphant and shaddowez are all hinted clear from my pov from just the first 500 posts since Black does not treat K or T3 in anywhere the same manner. Black approaches like a chess match. I'll explain more manipulation tonight or tmo.

Sorry Jupiter, question required to much but explaining the early game is a start.

[Titus]

also it's ironic the scum queen got limmed day one

No. She didn't. The scum princess did.

[Titus]

So suppose you, do you look for scum? Of course. Then who is the towniest scum?

You are jk. Ebwop

ok, I do need to read ahead... if I was JK last night I would have targeted T3 or Shaddow

Then your vote should be on T3 or Shadow logically. That's the no nightkill explanation.

logically speaking yes. but then there is gut, where is your gut telling you to go

T3 needs to be limmed. That's my gut. I see no world where T3 wasn't jailed because I expect the jailor went through the same process as it is clear and simple.

Titus you fucking suck

We don't have to be mean...

[Titus]

Do you agree with the proposition that a jk is more likely than a doc save if we suppose I am not the jk? Not saying if I am or not.

[Titus]

yeah im not sold on t3. how is t3 scum exactly?

I'll finish more tmo but I laid out a huge poe already. Part 2 is T3 but I am driving.

[Titus]

Also T3, there's a mountain for you to pick through not about you.

[Titus]

I literally laid out my cards on a bunch of townreads that's not vibes, not you, and not theory. I have to be allowed to think you're scum. There's things for you to engage with.

I feel my reads are correct and reasoned. I'm not apologizing for it. I'm going line by line, premise by premise because I am not arrogant. Maybe I have blindspot's but Black's ISO combined with night actions make a hell of a circumstantial case.

That's why I am so strong.

You can check my first part. I can be wrong, but insults and flail are a waste. Call me an arrogant bitch of a robot if you want.


1400 begs for your reply. Am I wrong on it? Where?

[Titus]

@Other, In a vacuum, reading her as a buddy is plausible. However, Black doesn't promote ProjEctRy for skills but rather that they appear town. Black makes no effort to look persuaded. It's hollow, partially because Black doesn't want to be tied to a position but she doesn't want to be too tied to ProjEctRy as town while encouraging ProjEctRy to stick around. It's a fine line to walk, but it's the one I would walk if ProjEctRy was town with bad reads and I absolutely feel Black thinks like I would. That's not hard evidence but it's absolutely the lens I have viewed scum!Black through this game.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have an open letter to write to T3 that I think everyone should read.

[Titus]

T3,

I wanted to be wrong on you when I jailed you. Maybe I am. Even if I am, a town!you guarantees that the doctor got a successful save. That still makes you the best mechanical lim. We wouldn't have a slot in elo that had a staunchly similar wagon to the flipped scum and has bad associations with Black.

I selected you because I wanted to prove my theory wrong. It is still possible camel is scum instead of you as Black doesn't have enough interactions there. However, in this setup, I feel the towniest scum should go for the kill to avoid a jailkeeper.

In my mind, you are universally townier than K. You'd go for the kill in a T3 and K scumteam. Is it a bit of wifom. Sure. But I was praying for evidence to be wrong. If a kill had gone through last night, it would be evidence to suggest my theory was wrong. Who'd send a lurker that was almost replaced to do a scum kill? That would be unlikely. So I'd tear apart the VCs looking for a difference.

When I saw that no kill, I tried to hurry people to make it as painless as possible while not leading people too harshly. Was I insane to jail you? The answers were a resounding no.

That leaves me backed into a corner. My deductions suggest you should flip, the VCs suggest you're scum, the PoE suggests you're one of the few viable suspects left.

I feel a certain amount of empathy for you being stacked with this much evidence against you. That's why I want you to challenge me. That's because, if you are town, you have no problem telling me precisely where I am wrong.

I didn't write that wall in post 1400 on the early Black posting for my own ego. I wrote it because I feel a kinship with Black. I see myself in her, which I am well aware it can lead to a blind spot.

The bad behaviors you see come from when I feel ignored. When the scum treat me like a human being and town don't, it's easy to get the two backwards and tunnel on town who think I'm an idiot for not seeing things their way.

I will likely be in this game for a long time, and that includes having better listening skills. If you are town, I want to hear from you as much as I can.

It would be disingenuous to say you weren't the best lim by VCA, by Black's flips and by strategy though.

[Titus]

It's not strategically wise to out I am the jailkeeper so early in the day, even if you are scum, as it cuts off some conversations. I've always like to drop mid day. Hell, K hasn't even posted.

Yet, dragging you along like a sick puppy to the vet isn't humane.

As long as we can keep the doctor hidden, then it's a strong move. If you are scum, it's 100% correct to happen today as every nightkill would clear someone.

I do have crumbs where I was trying to tell some but not others today.

You may be town. I feel for you if you are.

[Titus]

At least let's make it as painless as possible for T3. Give him what he needs to put a final guess, if he wants.

I'll look at ProjEctRy with fresh eyes tmo.

I'll be up for a bit as the incomptent front desk man checked in someone to my room. Quite the scare.

[Titus]

@Bella, yes.

Please do continue discussing ProjEctRy. I'm not going to contribute much tonight as I got a hell of a shock.

[Titus]

Yes. Hotel clerk fucked up a check in so a man accidentally barged into my room.

[Titus]

The only world in which Titus actually has a guilty on me is if I both somehow don’t know that she is Jailkeeper and my partner is exactly Kurta.

?? did you spot a crumb yesterday?

No, last night.

21 is indeed a crumb. I played back a bit because of IRL and being a PR. I was intending to leave it as very much a joke.

T3's frustration is genuine, both both town and scum T3 would be frustrated here. I am not sure if T3 knew that from a night read or post claim as he'd know I'd leave a crumb early. His posts at the start of the day don't look like he knows he was jailed, and there were plenty of crumbs that were more blatant today than yesterday.

[Titus]

Or there was a doc save and Titus doesn't matter?

That's the universe where T3 is town. That's why it's good to lim T3. Someone is confown. If it wasn't me, that's 3 conftown.

[Titus]

T3, why can't you be scum with K? Is K town?

Am I town?

I genuinely do not think I have said a word about Kurta the entire game so honestly I see why someone might think I'm scum with him. I'm leaning town on him, during the night when I went through and looked at the receipts in 4 or 5 of his posts (nearly) everything checked out and was logical. I normally have much greater success with reading players like him by tracking their reads over a long period of time. On the surface I thought that he could be scum with Black but then I looked at the actual reasons for why he townread Black and they were basically the exact same reasons why I townread Black, just with different posts as our receipts.

In post 166, Black wrote:
Ok. Any thoughts on my vote on you? Do you think there was a reason behind it or did you read 157 as me not having one?
I assumed to glean my reaction to it, to be blunt. More specifically, the reason it gave me the impression from town from you as opposed to scum was that you hadn't provided your reason upfront, and I doubt that scum calculating their actions would make the obviously contradicting move of switching to my wagon like that while giving a tentative sounding excuse, when it could easily be pointed at later as potential sheeping. It feels like there was a towny thought process behind it, like as if you reread my posts and felt something from them that made you change your mind, but hadn't been able to put into words yet. So essentially you were placing your vote on me to try and sense out further what could be causing that vibe.

Yesterday I was scumreading you a lot but if I'm being honest my scumread was a bit overblown and reactive to your vote. Gut says you're town but I dislike how yesterday you didn't aggressively push the solve you had, I would expect you to do more if you were town. I might review your meta later and how you read people because in every game I think your reads are completely disingenuous, but I have noticed differences in certain games. The actual content of your read on me/Black/Kurta is very similar to MBOS 13 but the way you're pushing your solve is completely different and yesterday it didn't feel to me like you actually believed it.

Take here. T3 understands why I might think he's scum with K. If he thought I was the jailkeeper from the start of the day, why does he post this? Why does he go from understanding why I think he might be scum to flipping out when I reveal every reason why.

[Titus]

Why doesn't T3 see how aggressive I am and go oh fuck Titus is pursuing a perceived guilty before I claimed if he knew?

[Titus]

I would vote kurtapika before T3

We can eliminate both of them but I feel much stronger on T3. The difference is like night and day.

Five crumbs on being the jk pursuing a guilty before his outburst. If T3 saw I was the jailkeeper from last night, he knows I'm not letting that go.

well i feel night and day stronger on kurtapika

You sweet summer child. Come to my house. Eat cookies. I love cleaning up cookies.

I will vote, but we have time, we need to be definitive on who is not complicit

Nah. This game is near mathematically over. If we hit scum today, and it's a high liklihood we will, then scum will struggle mightly to win.

why are you pushing this?

Because it's much more likely the jk has a guilty than a doctor heal.

That or K based on a no kill but T3 preferred unless a jk says otherwise. (Won't happen).

[Titus]

Now onto your regularly scheduled programming.

[Titus]

Black, is my theory valid? Yes or no.

Yeah I think there's some weight to it, but I also think Kurtapika is town so I'm not sure if it's the world we live in

This here is the sole Black related post that makes me think T3 might be town. Was Black wanting to focus on T3 because he was town and it would undermine my accurate read on K? Or was it that T3 is scum too and K being easier to defend?

[Titus]

Black part 2 - Post theory crumb

It includes my last post. I just felt that one of its own.

Anyway, Black launches into a 1 v 1 about why scum slip with AK. Skipping the detail on these as it's just AK town evidence.

616 and 617 are letting project push Skygazer and setting up to defend ProjEctRy. Black was doing that precrumb as well. K was a wagon at the time. This suggests that Skygazer was a preferable lim to both ProjEctRy and K. This is evidence

Skygazer

isn't scum. ProjEctRy was either a beard yesterday or is scum.

632 is attempting to dismantle the wagon on K and shade Dann if it fails. Black is subtly panicking here. K is almost certainly scum.

639 is not surprising given what I've said earlier.
723 is me blatantly manipulating Black into a position where she won't bus if scum. Thus confirming partners. She's been anti bus so far so...
754 doesn't seem to be true for Black. Who was she "bussing and then trying to back off before I run

my

her partner over"? Her earliest push was K, which she backs off of. She was technically at least a third. (Aisa voted in 137 which is not caught in the VC). She backs off based on vibes when the wagon dies. There hasn't been a strong push at all from Black. She jumps on Bella nakedly in 260 to get off K. Then it's a naked vote on shaddowez in 512. Not exactly hard bussing partners. More like wagon shopping.


755 is only true if Black coached it as it would be abnormal for Skygazer.


758 is an interesting take. What position would you take if a beard and a lurky partner was pushed? Favor the beard? Discredit the player? Black definitely discredits the player (Dann) but implies a preference ProjEctRy live. ProjEctRy is doing more for scum than K regardless of if ProjEctRy is a beard or scum.


777 Black starts to crack and get paranoid she's my SR openly.


781 Black admits she won't bus, which is precisely what I want.

---- End Part 2----

[Titus]

801 Calls my conviction on K unnatural and wants me to interact with K more.

901 - There is an argument here that T3 is town. However, my theory is Black was wanting to dismantle both wagons. If T3 is town, camel and K are scum by PoE.

935 goes along with this theory. Black is expressing doubt on T3.

957 - Black shopping other wagons.

983 - Black and T3 jump on me together. Feels panicky on Black's part and an attempt to kill the T3 wagon.

1086 - Readwall is whack.

1094 Black is desperate to lim me and/or has no clue I am the jk.

That's the end of Black's posting.

I've detailed townreads on everyone but camel, T3 and K. I've detailed why.

[Titus]

[Spolier=Black posting a deep dive]

@Jupiter 1349 I'm not quoting the entire post, but I think I can answer your questions by explaining our interactions.

We start with some witty banter that was fun.

When Black makes 256 at ProjEctRy, I started to suspect her. The early posts might have been disagreements, but Black knows what newbie scum can do. We've done it. This suggested a pocket of ProjEctRy. 258 suggested to look more at what ProjEctRy was pushing at the time.

If you look at posts 249 and 251, ProjEctRy was denying townreads on AK, Bellaphant and me. In 144 ProjEctRy wants to deny townreads on Dann. Altogether, ProjEctRy was scumhunting, but being wrong in his first game.

This promotion and buttering of wrong reads and chaos is exactly what I'd do as scum.

I know however, if you take a shot at the scumhead, you'd better not miss. So I had to get people to my cause while they think it's their idea. Evil and manipulative, sure but I also had reasons for staying in the back.

I kept watching.

In 260, Black talked about "town vibes" from K, which was the opposite I got but maybe it was the language barrier. Maybe Black was pocketing. So I checked her ISO more. This is more past reading than I ever do in a game, but Black is worth the challenge.

We'll address Black's interactions with K as we progress. For now, she's fine with having "vibes" on K but disapproves of gut hunches I had on K. She "can't argue" 131with vibes for townreading Aisa. 124 The implication is that Black would want to argue. She does want something different from Bella, which strongly suggest Bella is town and so is Aisa.

We then have a conversation about "gut" which is really synonymous with "vibes". I mention in 152 that my K scumread is gut. In 197, Black promotes ProjEctRy based on "gut". ProjEctRy is denying townreads in 144 like we established. At this point, Black is using ProjEctRy to throw out reasons to attack town, which is a common tactic I use. Promoting bad reads.

But I digress. Black in 269 is questioning JupiterXV townreading Dann because of gut and nothing Dann did. This is an implication that if JupiterXV stuck just to logic Dann would remain out of the townblock. This is also notably the first time Black straight up objects to gut. She only offered a different opinion on K. This suggests both Dann and JupiterXV are town. Her renewing the objection in 275 reinforces this. While it's not an issue being a hypocrit in a mafia game, the hypocrisy reveals alignment.

282 and the others in that section are a pocket attempt on JupiterXV. 313 Black is objecting to shaddow sticking up for Aisa's little evidence to TR me. This suggests Shaddowez is town along with Aisa.

348 Black reasonless townreading K. In 349 Black suggests that K's content is better than Sky and Nono. She accuses AK of shade. She takes the opposite position that we should eliminate in the active posters because 1) town wouldn't likely go for a no lim in a cohesive gamestate and 2) with T3 v/la and K being low content himself, an active lim is better as it had high odds of being town.

383 I am taking a back seat but watching. 419 Scum generally don't apologize for actually helpful posts.

463 Black walks back a townread on K. The backing off comes when K isn't a wagon. 477 more evidence JupiterXV is town.

543 is where I drop a hint I think Black is scum. If I shoot there, I cannot miss.

I'll include more solve tmo. But TLDR Project, AK, Dann, Aisa, JupiterXV, Bellaphant and shaddowez are all hinted clear from my pov from just the first 500 posts since Black does not treat K or T3 in anywhere the same manner. Black approaches like a chess match. I'll explain more manipulation tonight or tmo.

Sorry Jupiter, question required to much but explaining the early game is a start.

Black part 2 - Post theory crumb

It includes my last post. I just felt that one of its own.

Anyway, Black launches into a 1 v 1 about why scum slip with AK. Skipping the detail on these as it's just AK town evidence.

616 and 617 are letting project push Skygazer and setting up to defend ProjEctRy. Black was doing that precrumb as well. K was a wagon at the time. This suggests that Skygazer was a preferable lim to both ProjEctRy and K. This is evidence

Skygazer

isn't scum. ProjEctRy was either a beard yesterday or is scum.

632 is attempting to dismantle the wagon on K and shade Dann if it fails. Black is subtly panicking here. K is almost certainly scum.

639 is not surprising given what I've said earlier.
723 is me blatantly manipulating Black into a position where she won't bus if scum. Thus confirming partners. She's been anti bus so far so...
754 doesn't seem to be true for Black. Who was she "bussing and then trying to back off before I run

my

her partner over"? Her earliest push was K, which she backs off of. She was technically at least a third. (Aisa voted in 137 which is not caught in the VC). She backs off based on vibes when the wagon dies. There hasn't been a strong push at all from Black. She jumps on Bella nakedly in 260 to get off K. Then it's a naked vote on shaddowez in 512. Not exactly hard bussing partners. More like wagon shopping.

755 is only true if Black coached it as it would be abnormal for Skygazer.

758 is an interesting take. What position would you take if a beard and a lurky partner was pushed? Favor the beard? Discredit the player? Black definitely discredits the player (Dann) but implies a preference ProjEctRy live. ProjEctRy is doing more for scum than K regardless of if ProjEctRy is a beard or scum.

777 Black starts to crack and get paranoid she's my SR openly.

781 Black admits she won't bus, which is precisely what I want.

---- End Part 2----

801 Calls my conviction on K unnatural and wants me to interact with K more.

901 - There is an argument here that T3 is town. However, my theory is Black was wanting to dismantle both wagons. If T3 is town, camel and K are scum by PoE.

935 goes along with this theory. Black is expressing doubt on T3.

957 - Black shopping other wagons.

983 - Black and T3 jump on me together. Feels panicky on Black's part and an attempt to kill the T3 wagon.

1086 - Readwall is whack.

1094 Black is desperate to lim me and/or has no clue I am the jk.

That's the end of Black's posting.

I've detailed townreads on everyone but camel, T3 and K. I've detailed why.

[/spoiler]

Scum are in camel, K and T3. Please review.

[Titus]

Ebwop

Spoiler: Black posting a deep dive

@Jupiter 1349 I'm not quoting the entire post, but I think I can answer your questions by explaining our interactions.

We start with some witty banter that was fun.

When Black makes 256 at ProjEctRy, I started to suspect her. The early posts might have been disagreements, but Black knows what newbie scum can do. We've done it. This suggested a pocket of ProjEctRy. 258 suggested to look more at what ProjEctRy was pushing at the time.

If you look at posts 249 and 251, ProjEctRy was denying townreads on AK, Bellaphant and me. In 144 ProjEctRy wants to deny townreads on Dann. Altogether, ProjEctRy was scumhunting, but being wrong in his first game.

This promotion and buttering of wrong reads and chaos is exactly what I'd do as scum.

I know however, if you take a shot at the scumhead, you'd better not miss. So I had to get people to my cause while they think it's their idea. Evil and manipulative, sure but I also had reasons for staying in the back.

I kept watching.

In 260, Black talked about "town vibes" from K, which was the opposite I got but maybe it was the language barrier. Maybe Black was pocketing. So I checked her ISO more. This is more past reading than I ever do in a game, but Black is worth the challenge.

We'll address Black's interactions with K as we progress. For now, she's fine with having "vibes" on K but disapproves of gut hunches I had on K. She "can't argue" 131with vibes for townreading Aisa. 124 The implication is that Black would want to argue. She does want something different from Bella, which strongly suggest Bella is town and so is Aisa.

We then have a conversation about "gut" which is really synonymous with "vibes". I mention in 152 that my K scumread is gut. In 197, Black promotes ProjEctRy based on "gut". ProjEctRy is denying townreads in 144 like we established. At this point, Black is using ProjEctRy to throw out reasons to attack town, which is a common tactic I use. Promoting bad reads.

But I digress. Black in 269 is questioning JupiterXV townreading Dann because of gut and nothing Dann did. This is an implication that if JupiterXV stuck just to logic Dann would remain out of the townblock. This is also notably the first time Black straight up objects to gut. She only offered a different opinion on K. This suggests both Dann and JupiterXV are town. Her renewing the objection in 275 reinforces this. While it's not an issue being a hypocrit in a mafia game, the hypocrisy reveals alignment.

282 and the others in that section are a pocket attempt on JupiterXV. 313 Black is objecting to shaddow sticking up for Aisa's little evidence to TR me. This suggests Shaddowez is town along with Aisa.

348 Black reasonless townreading K. In 349 Black suggests that K's content is better than Sky and Nono. She accuses AK of shade. She takes the opposite position that we should eliminate in the active posters because 1) town wouldn't likely go for a no lim in a cohesive gamestate and 2) with T3 v/la and K being low content himself, an active lim is better as it had high odds of being town.

383 I am taking a back seat but watching. 419 Scum generally don't apologize for actually helpful posts.

463 Black walks back a townread on K. The backing off comes when K isn't a wagon. 477 more evidence JupiterXV is town.

543 is where I drop a hint I think Black is scum. If I shoot there, I cannot miss.

I'll include more solve tmo. But TLDR Project, AK, Dann, Aisa, JupiterXV, Bellaphant and shaddowez are all hinted clear from my pov from just the first 500 posts since Black does not treat K or T3 in anywhere the same manner. Black approaches like a chess match. I'll explain more manipulation tonight or tmo.

Sorry Jupiter, question required to much but explaining the early game is a start.

Black part 2 - Post theory crumb

It includes my last post. I just felt that one of its own.

Anyway, Black launches into a 1 v 1 about why scum slip with AK. Skipping the detail on these as it's just AK town evidence.

616 and 617 are letting project push Skygazer and setting up to defend ProjEctRy. Black was doing that precrumb as well. K was a wagon at the time. This suggests that Skygazer was a preferable lim to both ProjEctRy and K. This is evidence

Skygazer

isn't scum. ProjEctRy was either a beard yesterday or is scum.

632 is attempting to dismantle the wagon on K and shade Dann if it fails. Black is subtly panicking here. K is almost certainly scum.

639 is not surprising given what I've said earlier.
723 is me blatantly manipulating Black into a position where she won't bus if scum. Thus confirming partners. She's been anti bus so far so...
754 doesn't seem to be true for Black. Who was she "bussing and then trying to back off before I run

my

her partner over"? Her earliest push was K, which she backs off of. She was technically at least a third. (Aisa voted in 137 which is not caught in the VC). She backs off based on vibes when the wagon dies. There hasn't been a strong push at all from Black. She jumps on Bella nakedly in 260 to get off K. Then it's a naked vote on shaddowez in 512. Not exactly hard bussing partners. More like wagon shopping.

755 is only true if Black coached it as it would be abnormal for Skygazer.

758 is an interesting take. What position would you take if a beard and a lurky partner was pushed? Favor the beard? Discredit the player? Black definitely discredits the player (Dann) but implies a preference ProjEctRy live. ProjEctRy is doing more for scum than K regardless of if ProjEctRy is a beard or scum.

777 Black starts to crack and get paranoid she's my SR openly.

781 Black admits she won't bus, which is precisely what I want.

---- End Part 2----

801 Calls my conviction on K unnatural and wants me to interact with K more.

901 - There is an argument here that T3 is town. However, my theory is Black was wanting to dismantle both wagons. If T3 is town, camel and K are scum by PoE.

935 goes along with this theory. Black is expressing doubt on T3.

957 - Black shopping other wagons.

983 - Black and T3 jump on me together. Feels panicky on Black's part and an attempt to kill the T3 wagon.

1086 - Readwall is whack.

1094 Black is desperate to lim me and/or has no clue I am the jk.

That's the end of Black's posting.

I've detailed townreads on everyone but camel, T3 and K. I've detailed why.

Scum are in camel, K and T3. Please review.

[Titus]

While it's possible T3 is town, a doctor knows another player is town as there's no way scum kill T3.

[Titus]

I have a lot to learn about this game....

So do I. It constantly changes and evolves.

ProjEctRy and K I hope you stick around.

[Titus]

Day hasn't been open long enough for a prod.

[Titus]

While it's possible T3 is town, a doctor knows another player is town as there's no way scum kill T3.

i agree that flipping T3 is optimal because yeah that clears someone to the doctor if we're wrong, it'd be better to get that clear now than to wait (since waiting increases the chances of the doc dying)

So, what? We flip me, I flip town, and now the Doctor has a clear who they can't out?

Yes, but it would be clear from their reads.

[Titus]

T3 feels like I have an unconscious bias towards him. His reaction is not alignment indicative. It comes from the past, not his alignment or a view of the circumstances.

We should give T3 as much time as he wants. I'll largely not ask questions as my posting appears to bother him.

[Titus]

No. T3 is not obvscum Skygazer. It's mechanically the right lim. However on socials it's ccs and K

[Titus]

Sorry T3 if you're town. Was literally perfect circumstances.

[Titus]

I'm not a fan of an Aisa scumread but obviously if T3 is town, I'll need to revisit.

[Titus]

i'm going to feel like such an ass if T3 flips town lmao

I don't. I feel bad he feels bad regardless of his alignment.

[Titus]

I'll be doing a VC comparison on both.

[Titus]

and I just have the horrible disease of needing to catch the deepwolf

maybe I already caught the deepwolf of this game

I don't think there is one. I think it's just T3/camel and K but I need to reset.

[Titus]

I jailed K. It's not an auto guilty as scum could have faked a no kill, but it's likely just K.

VOTE: K

[Titus]

Scum got really unlucky as town found each other really fast.

[Titus]

When T3 flipped scum, I felt his rage was genuine but too specfic to have me jail anyone but K.

[Titus]

Feel better Aisa!

[Titus]

Possible. We'll find out in post game. I wasn't trying to make the game unfun for him.

[Titus]

That's L minus 1

[Titus]

Sorry E minus 1.

Let's just hammer. I recall that statement.

[Titus]

Or not lol why unvote Aisa?

[Titus]

Let's see.

[Titus]

town sided setup smh

I don't think it is. It's very night heavy but no unbalanced. We had a very very in sync town core.

[Titus]

The only world in which Titus actually has a guilty on me is if I both somehow don’t know that she is Jailkeeper and my partner is exactly Kurta.

Imagine if this is true
The gumption of this man lol

It's not like that wasn't my theory T3 was raging about.

[Titus]

Doctor do not claim in case of a saavy scum.

[Titus]

Fear not, for the Scum Queen has arrived to save this tortured town

I dispute this claim.

You can be the princess to inherit when I retire.

When I take my first loss as scum then I will consider relinquishing my title

Black saying this and then getting perfected would be intensely funny to me (also feels a little bad, sry Black)

Agreed, but I'll hand my crown to her someday.

[Titus]

The only world in which Titus actually has a guilty on me is if I both somehow don’t know that she is Jailkeeper and my partner is exactly Kurta.

Imagine if this is true
The gumption of this man lol

It's not like that wasn't my theory T3 was raging about.

You would have named the exact team day 1 - town queen.

I have theories all the time. Most of the time, they are wrong. T3 is correct there.

[Titus]

Knowing our luck, schadd won't be on for a bit. #impatient.

[Titus]

Now we know my jail targets mean nothing. Scum deliberately no killed. If we hadn't eliminated K yesterday, we wouldn't know that. In fact, if scum

ever

kill then there is a conftown afterwards. No killing scum are aware of that. In fact, scum would want as many wagons as possible to find the doctor.

We definitely should be cautious here about votes.

For the record, I jailed camel.

[Titus]

@AK, you trying to case me or what?

[Titus]

i think wagoning quickly was the right option tbh. i don't know what talking further could've accomplished aside from potentially revealing the doc.

This. We don't want a bunch of wagons. I see two wagons imo.

[Titus]

AK, I'd like to see a readwall from you. You're being weird as hell.

[Titus]

AK, you aren't even interested in hearing my logic or thoughts if you're outright misinterpreting them and saying I'm getting my ego stroked. Come talk to me when you want a conversation.

[Titus]

I'm out until Sunday.

X post all games

[Titus]

I want camel because I don't want to redo 1400 again.

Bbl

[Titus]

Sorry I'm likely delayed until tomorrow night. Tomorrow morning is devoted to interpersonal relationships that might be too late to save.

[Titus]

Can we just vote Camel?