open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[JupiterXV]

hello! just popping in to say that i'll be absent since i have a cello performance this sunday (will be in the car for a good majority of the day and what time i don't spend in the car i will spend practicing or, well... performing.) tomorrow i'm mostly gonna be too preoccupied to play mafia, but just figured i should let everyone know
quick things about me: i've played on this site once before (around two years ago?), i'm not new to mafia but i'm generally unfamiliar with mafiascum's sitemeta, and also hi t3! VOTE: t3
may i inquire why you scumread bella?

[JupiterXV]

ew why does that emoji look so weird
":P"

[JupiterXV]

there we go
see ya

[JupiterXV]

OH WAIT pagetop

[JupiterXV]

got some free time to hang out & unwind so i'll read through the thread will not be here much tomorrow though, just so you all know. stuff's going good though i'd say

[JupiterXV]

may i inquire why you scumread bella?

"Is it bad to already have a tr" indicates to me that Bella has a degree of self-consciousness and feels the need to ask permission from the thread to express her thoughts.

disagree! i haven't been able to fully play a game in a while so i might be wrong on this, but i don't think self-consciousness is inherently scummy but tbf i don't know what general scum meta on this site is & how bella plays in specific. i mean i tend to be pretty self-conscious regardless of my alignment due to overthinking a lot of things, and i know some other people who are more self-conscious as town and more confident as scum. i think people who are more unfamilliar with scum positions tend to be more self-conscious, and those who are more familiar tend to be less self-conscious, actually. and since bella's been on this site a while, i'd assume they've played scum roles a number of times.
this is actually rather anecdotal but i have fun in scum positions but i've only played a non-town role maybe... three times? and so i'm absolutely incredibly VERY self-conscious of what i'm posting and very aware of every minute detail, more than i would be as town
anyways, that being said, i'll pose a question. if bella was new to the site do you think this post of hers would be more or less scummy?

T3 is probably town.

Curious to hear why you think so

Trying to jumpstart discussion in RVS, even if on a fairly reachy basis, feels fairly townie to me. In general I think scum are more likely to wait for other people to start pushing wagons rather than try to jumpstart one themselves. I also think the reachiness of it is actually +town since I feel like scum would probably be angling for a good first impression here.

tbh i actually think whether people start wagons or not isn't inherently alignment indicative. i think what's AI is

why

they're starting a wagon, like trying to figure out the reason / motivation behind it. t3's read does seem a bit genuine to me, though i could be reading it wrong. obviously the reason doesn't stand for me (because i would personally not be making such a read) but i can see why they would think that. my standards are personally just different and bella's post does not ping me one way or another.
that being said it isn't a bad thing to have an early townread who is the townread tho

i think aisa is towny to me! out of all the players so far they seem the towniest
posts seem to have genuine thought behind them, they're putting out some original takes, but not trying too hard (trying hard is cool but i think i tend to generally associate that trait with scum)

kurtapika, out of curiosity, what was the mafia you played like? it seems to be of a different style

OK i gotta go now. bye gang i got some more stuff but business calls! see ya

[JupiterXV]

As I said before: In a vacuum that post is objectively more likely to come from scum than town, but there are factors such as personality and experience that may affect that vacuum. Also, I wanted to start discussion. If I go ahead and say that "this post from Bella is completely NAI" then there's nothing to discuss, is there!

ehh fair. willing to let it slide ig

If Bella was new to the site then that post would definitely be more scummy.

Why did you ask this question?

wondering if you would see it differently if the person posting it was different in some manner, i think, if that makes sense. kinda hard to explain but your take on bella seems more like of a... sort of, more theory-based scumread? like less on what bella did and more like "this post is traditionally very _ or _"
what do you feel about bella now? still scum? or nah

[JupiterXV]

hiya, i'm back
gonna read thread now

[JupiterXV]

sorry got distracted with food. not sure why it took me an hour to make and consume ramen but it was fire so idc
i'll come back later lol

[JupiterXV]

But I guess it's basically impossible to tell whether someone trying to start early discussion is doing it from a place to look town or scum, unless they're being super LAMIST. I don't know if I'm right. I don't think this matters anyways.

it doesn't, and what i said about motivations is more a general thing thati use to help with making reads, jsyk!

It was on night start with faster games and generally smaller table sizes, so it didn't have as heavy of a reliance on solely post analysis during D1. New territory for me.

oh, cool!

UNVOTE: Kurtapika

Im new to the game so struggling to get involved, but whilst weak my initial suspicions would be for T3.

I’ve found his posts to be the most defensive. Particularly 39.

I also don’t like 63. I don’t like that he answered for Asia, whilst saying not to answer for her. Asia has been prodding slightly at T3 and I’m conscious whether answering for her was almost doing her a favour to get her off his back. Almost a ‘look im on your side’.

This read could be completely off, but I’d be curious to know peoples thoughts.

(and also in response to aisa's following post about t3)
actually i can kinda see this. i initially put t3 higher up due to vibes and trying to start conversation, but i guess tone isn't something i really considered (as it's hard for me to tell tone through text). "am i supposed to know your meta" does seem a bit accusatory though since it's pretty clearly rhetorical

JupiterXV, do you have any previous experience playing mafia on a forum?

i do! though i played primarily on AoPS from 2021-2022 (and then I took a break in 2022) though i played one or two games during the summer. this is my first time playing serious mafia in quite a while, so i'm a little bit rusty. PLEASE excuse me if i have any bad takes LOL (and also tell me if i'm wrong about any terms or stuff bc this jargon is NOT sticking in my head). aops is actually where i knew t3 from and when i quit the site recently (userbase is too young, i really hate the general site culture there outside of mafia) i decided to come here so there's a bit of ~lore~ :3
tl;dr: i do have experience but i'm not good in the slightest

Jupiter's 64 feels very townie, good vibes there.

thank you!!!!

Just statistically.

what statistics lol? i'd say newbtown and newbscum would be just as likely to say that actually

oops all this talk about removing RVS and voting t3 reminds me that i should probably remove my vote on t3 for now. UNVOTE: T3 tbh i don't think there's anyone that's specifically raised my suspicions since there's just been a lot of t3-centric talk?
let me run through the players i swear there's more people but i can only remember like two
bella - person who went "is it okay to have a townread" at the beginning, i'd say more likely to be town due to vibes alone but just a gutread for now
t3 - person who scumread bella at the beginning, i'd say more null? not completely convinced he's scum though since i used to be a little bit mean as town
aisa - towny
uhhhhh
what was their username
right!
dannflor - kinda floating around, haven't seen much from them yet or if they have posted i'm sorry i can't remember anything from you... null?
kurtapika(?) - good vibes, i like them! sadly i don't think they've done much yet either i think they only have three or four posts? not sure what's going on there since ive seen them post and stuff and make commentary on content, but there's not much actual meat. might have to check since this judgement might be innaccurate but it's what i remember
project - kinda towny idk, they're chilling! i can't reemmber much asides from good stuff
yeah i can't remember anything this is kind of a pointless exercise

For those that don't know me I'm Black. It's a pleasure to meet you all

ooh we got a new player! hi black, welcome to the game!!
got a question though, if you're the scum queen doesn't that mean you doom the game?

OH LOL i didn't know "OWER" was referring to OutWorld
i kind of just associated ower with the cute little dog they have as a profile pictuyre

I would say it's more of a townlean than a full on townread, and yeah it's definitely weak. My reads generally are early on. There's not much more to my read other than thinking

T3 doesn't have to be doing this if he's scum here

. And thinking about his mocking of bella a little more I feel like that's more likely to come from town.

I don't think scum would want to make enemies on page 1

was reading this post and i went. wow :O this is exactly what i THOUGHT but i couldn't put it into words and here it is!!! i don't townread t3 much but this is kind of what i meant by talking about motivation and whatnot earlier. t3 wants to start talking because they: (choose one or the other) feel pressure to solve as town / feel pressure to be townread as scum. they push bella because they: think this post from bella is a bit off / want to make an opportunistic push
okay this doesn't make sense but i guess what the slashes indicate are that these are different motivations for town/scum respectively. i guess what i'm trying to articulate that there's two different worlds (and while there may be many more reasons!) and to me i think both make sense! it's just that i think i sliightly? favor the town world over the scum world in likeliness.
i don't think the push is articulated well. i now understand that maybe bella's "oh i have a townread!" post doesn't do much to start discussion and can thus be seen as scummy, but t3's push at the time seemed a tad bit reachy even if they seemed genuine about it. i think that scum t3 is likely, but town t3 is more likely because imho scum has no reason to be going around and picking fights, especially not when the game has just started. if i were in t3's position (assuming town bella scum t3) i would've just not posted that at all LOL. sure, t3 could've done all of that just to get a roundabout town read but honestly wifom is lame occam's razor for the win and what is simplest is that (at least in theory) scum wants to be present but not contentious, they want to be townread and i don't think scum t3 goes into this knowing it will get them widely scumread.
sorry this is a bit sheepy i think but wow reading that post was kind of like. in the nicest way possible it's kinda like a gateway drug i read it and i was like. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IVE BEEN THHINKING. gently mindmelds(correct word??? idk) at you

That said, getting a ping here:
VOTE: Jupiter

It feel like they saw some reason to vote T3 and have been hanging on to it. 70 sounds like they're starting to form a reason to back out of their vote, without having to look anywhere else just yet.

pal it was an rvs vote i know them from other places...

I feel Kurtapika is awkward and distant.

would you be willing to explain? i can see the "distant" part but i dont see awkwardness. they just kind of talk a bit formally (which is actually a bit reminiscent of how i speak off the interwebs). what i see more is them not doing much

How many scum games have you had? My issue was about a year ago I hadn't rolled scum in a year and then got four In a row!

I'm 5-0

WOAHHH that's super impressive! good job

I am voting T3 because aside from their initial light push on Bellaphant, there isn't much content in his 24 or so posts.

I feel that T3's primary motivation in this game thus far has been to get people to town read him rather than to find scum or even genuinely push the game forward.
I dislike that T3 immediately undercuts the strength of his push on Bellaphant with 38 and calling it "weakly scummy" in 45.
Aside from that one read, T3 hasn't put forth a single other stance or thought about the game in terms of people's alignments.
Instead, his posts consist entirely of questions (that haven't gone anywhere yet) or explain-y self-defense posts.
For these reasons it feels like T3's start to the game has been more performative than not and I would think town!T3 would have outed some more reads by this point in the game with how clearly active he's been.

oh, these are interesting fresh new reasons! that kind of makes sense. i think i might have to reevaluate t3. honestly it's pretty interesting considering how you view them as performative- could you explain more on that point? i think their straightforwardness reads as a bit more genuine to me imo. the lack of content is actually a bit of a red flag that i hadn't exactly noticed, though i suppose it could be excused by the fact that people have generally been pushing them for a handful of pages and maybe this is to be expected?
idk. t3 is kind of a funky slot i'll figure it out later
got an exam tmrw so i'll probably just multitask, later posts will CERTAINLY NOT be as long as this ive spent like 30 minutes typing this up. too much time used *dies*

[JupiterXV]

I'm not really sure what the point of typing this out was? This definitely is performative while we're on the subject.

I don't understand what you're saying with your read on kurtapika. Why do they have good vibes / why do you like them despite them not doing anything

trying to figure out who i remember and what my reads are on them, i was just typing my thoughts down lol

idk kurtapika literally has not done anything they just seem chill. it's not a mafia read it's just like an "oh this person seems fascinating" thing

[JupiterXV]

honestly it's pretty interesting considering how you view them as performative- could you explain more on that point? i think their straightforwardness reads as a bit more genuine to me imo. the lack of content is actually a bit of a red flag that i hadn't exactly noticed, though i suppose it could be excused by the fact that people have generally been pushing them for a handful of pages and maybe this is to be expected?

it can mostly be distilled to the fact that T3's espoused motivation for his opening posts was to "spark discussion," presumably to get the game going and find scum

basically all of his posts after that point was focused on self defense or other contentless questioning

I think T3 is capable of sparking discussion much more concretely and usefully as town which is why his claim of wanting to spark discussion reads as performative to me

okay, this makes sense. i'm a little busy now so when i have more time i might return to this but i think i'm willing to trust your judgement since i haven't actually played w him

[JupiterXV]

wow, Jupiter, I missed your wall, which in itself is hard to believe, but I did. and I thought I was top of the content dumps list.

but there's not much content really... A little less conversation, a little more action, please.

not vibing with me

VOTE: Jupiter

i'm pretty sure i've been getting in the action i've been sharing my reads, questioning people, and providing my own takes on things
sorry if this style of play is bad but what i try to do is air my thoughts out as i think them. this means i don't have to dwell too long on thoughts and gaslight myself into not thinking them anymore (it's actually an issue i have, as a chronic overthinker) so when it comes to games like this i tend to just trust my gut and go along with the flow.

in a less nice way: no. i will post how i want. if you feel that i'm not contributing enough you can always point it out, but i'm not just gonna change the way i type and how i play this game just to please others. it's not antitown so i will continue as i wish. thank you for your time

[JupiterXV]

by the way, Black, could you send me the links to some of your past scumgames? you dont have to but i'd greatly appreciate it, even one is fine

[JupiterXV]

OK i gotta go now. bye gang i got some more stuff but business calls! see ya

What more did you have from stuff up to this point? Future posts only respond to posts after yours, not any thoughts prior to that.

I didn't actually plan on posting this, but I was actually starting to paranoia myself out of my hesitant Black townread. Better sooner than later, I guess.
Previously I had just considered her generally towny but I did some thinking on it and while I haven't seen her scumrange I was worried that I could just be getting played. i mean she kind of did pull up to the thread and declare herself the scum queen- it's an interesting approach with no direct reason for it beyond flexing. but it started to set off my internal alarm bells, because if she's so good at playing scum it means that it's harder for me to believe she's as likely to be town as i initially thought she was, if that makes sense.

alsoo what does the last sentence of this post mean?

[JupiterXV]

I am talking about post 69, yes. I also think post 159 is quite towny. Despite the fact we now know JupiterXV has previous experience, I am inclined to read them as town so far, partly because of the effort that went into post 159 and the fact it seems towny to me generally.

why do you read effort as towny?

[JupiterXV]

wait that's a stupid question LOL
feel free to answer anyways though

[JupiterXV]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.3 !

T3 (4):

JupiterXV, Nono, Dannflor, Aisa

Bellaphant (2):

OutWorldER, T3

Dannflor (2):

Skygazer, Bellaphant

JupiterXV (2):

shaddowez, Afrayed Knott

Kurtapika (2):

Titus, Black

Aisa (1):

Kurtapika

not voting (1):

ProjEctRy

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to over-represent someone's malice. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-12-06 13:48:14)

moderateur notes

• e

wait, i'm pretty sure i unvoted T3?

[JupiterXV]

As a real answer, I don't see this as a worthwhile wagon.

HHUUUH

[JupiterXV]

explain please? all wagons are worthwhile unless the player you're on is obvtown

[JupiterXV]

(elaboration) like we're early d1, wagons help to gauge how players respond to it, and who's on/off the wagon tends to determine interactions and how players work together
i'd argue all wagons are important, and even if you're not on them you should at least talk about it (because iirc you didn't? and t3 is the biggest wagon)

[JupiterXV]

Why do you think scum would say that out loud like that? Or do you just think he was trying to be open/honest and slipped?

The latter. Lying is a very mentally strenuous task, so telling a half-truth is easier than making up a reason as to why he's ignoring the T3 wagon. I think this is further supported by the fact that shaddowez has so far declined to actually give a read of T3. Every reason he gave for it "not being a worthwhile wagon" has to do with the people who are on the wagon. It reads like scum trying to avoid faking a read.

i find i agree with this actually
while we're on the topic of voting/wagons:
shadow, why did you initially vote me? can you explain that? just curious.

[JupiterXV]

Better sooner than later, I guess.

for clarification this sentence refers to posting the read and not paranoia but honestly early game paranoia > elo paranoia

[JupiterXV]

oh wait that's in reponse to #64 LMAO i am blind
sorry shadow i thought you were asking me for stuff that happened after my more recent wallpost since iirc i made a similar ending? those thoughts i didn't have time to express were articulated in my more recent post

[JupiterXV]

wait, i'm pretty sure i unvoted T3?

i see, it's easier for me to find votes if they're at the beginning of a line and not placed in a longer post

sorry! i'll do my votes in fresh posts from now on

[JupiterXV]

by the way, Black, could you send me the links to some of your past scumgames? you dont have to but i'd greatly appreciate it, even one is fine

Open 885

Newbie 2116

These are my two most recently completed scum games. There's one in between these but I had to replace out halfway through due to some unfortunate IRL stuffs

thank you

[JupiterXV]

just throwing this out there- what's everyone's opinions on dannflor? i don't really know how to approach his slot. he seems incredibly competent and i think his case on t3 is convincing enough to have my read on t3 going from townlean to scumlean constantly (which is to say it's incredibly inconsistent because of how weird the t3 slot is)... obviously they've been pretty active but idk if they've done anything concretely towny/scummy yet

The Scum Queen thing is sort of a tongue-in-cheek joke that has been going on for months now, but I've definitely embraced it (if you couldn't tell )

oh yeah, i know it was probably a joke. you dropping down in my readlist is probably less based on you doing anything scummy and more out of unsureness- you're towny of course but there's no way for me to be confident that you're town since you seem to have a very high caliber of play when you're scum. hopefully when i read through your scumgames we can resolve this since i kind of hate not having a concrete read on you

[JupiterXV]

what's everyone's opinions on dannflor? i don't really know how to approach his slot. he seems incredibly competent and i think his case on t3 is convincing enough to have my read on t3 going from townlean to scumlean constantly

what is *your* opinion on dannflor

okay that's actually a fair question LOL
to be fully honest i'm not sure. my gut says you're towny but i don't think you've done much to warrant that townread so you're just kind of hanging out in my head

[JupiterXV]

oops i pressed submit. here's the rest of my sentence:
which is why i asked that question in the first place, to see if there was anyone who could help sell me on the idea since i like to trust my gut but not when there's a lack of a reason

[JupiterXV]

my gut says you're towny but i don't think you've done much to warrant that townread so you're just kind of hanging out in my head

If your gut is telling you he's town how could you not think he's done anything to warrant a townread?

i don't know
his vibes are like good but slightly weirdish. it's always this thing i have going on with experienced players (especially so those who *feel* experienced) where i cannot trust them at all. if they're towny it ticks off my alarm bells because as scum they'd know enough to act towny and since i'm not particularly good with assigning reads it's easy enough for them to just slip past me. but then they could also literally just be town, and then i'm stuck paranoia'ing everyone i townread for the pure reason that they're better at mafia than me. it's also one of the exact reasons why i've been unable to lock a specific read on t3 (and it's pissing me off btw): because dannflor says town t3 knows better, he's experienced enough to do this right as town, and i buy that, but at the same time why would scum t3 do this so wrong???

[JupiterXV]

Or from looking at Jupiter's avatar

i did not actually realize how strange my avatar must've been to look at until now LMAO sorry gang
i'll find a better science diagram soon

[JupiterXV]

Why can't you just have a Pokemon or anime character or cool movie star like the rest of us

OH POKEMON? BET

[JupiterXV]

feast my eyes upon this little guy!!!

[JupiterXV]

feast your eyes*

excuse me while i drown in my embarrassment.

[JupiterXV]

I can definitely relate to this. You just described me as town

yeah. i know reasonably the gutread has to come from /somewhere/ but even though i usually trust my gut it doesn't stop me from being paranoid. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
i'll look through dannflor's posts later after i get some more responses

[JupiterXV]

if they're towny it ticks off my alarm bells because as scum they'd know enough to act towny and since i'm not particularly good with assigning reads it's easy enough for them to just slip past me. but then they could also literally just be town, and then i'm stuck paranoia'ing everyone i townread

Like this in particular just speaks to my soul

glad i could write something that resonates with you lol

[JupiterXV]

feast my eyes upon this little guy!!!

nom nom nom

feast your eyes*

excuse me while i drown in my embarrassment.

IT'S SO CUTE THANK YOU

scarlet and violet has some interesting designs (i say this while adoring the entire roster) but how could you not love pawmi... what a sweet little critter

[JupiterXV]

Jupiter what is your read on shaddow?

blehh i forgot to respond to this sorry give me a sec

[JupiterXV]

absolutely not a townread, probably leaning a bit into null/scumlean territory. their push on me comes off as reachy and lowkey i've been itching to call them out on it. like my vote in t3 was pretty clearly an RVS vote (literally on page one) and never did i express a scumread on t3 in the posts they're claiming i do. tbh i might know better than this but it feels a bit like a chainsaw, actually?
also, how they've addressed the t3 wagon makes me much more skeptical of them. completely ignoring a relevant wagon because it's not "worthwhile" is a little bit quirky and while it may not be scummy it's just something that stands out to me. i also generally agree with OWER's reasoning in #211 and his following posts.
confused as to why bella townreads him because she's never stated a reason
if t3 flips scum i'd say shadow is almost certainly scum

[JupiterXV]

OutWorld is currently one of the towniest players atm to me. I think their initial posts were a good way of getting content out and while their reads weren't especially substantial at first— since they

were

vibereads— I would say they were attempting to spark discussion in a manner that reads as town-aligned . On top of that, they seem to have been generally consistent with their thought progression. It feels very natural and their reads seem genuine. I also like their push on shadow, and I find myself mindmelding with them. All of their posts seem to have a decent amoutn of thought put into them as well, and that is why I strongly townread OutWorld.

The player I scumread the most at the moment is a tie between Titus and Shadow. I talked about Shadow earlier so I'll talk about Titus now. I read through their posts and they haven't done much at all. I think the only thing that's substantial about anything they've said is that one vote on Kurtapika. I think I also questioned them about this vote and they didn't actually answer so idk if it got lost in the wall or not but generally I would like to see more stuff from this slot. It's just generally inactive, not doing much. And there's a lot to be talking about so this much idle activity is a little bit disconcerting to me. Only thing holding me back from being confident on this read, though, is the fact that Titus said she was "planning to retire soon" meaning that maybe this inactivity comes from reasons unrelated to the game. Still, though:

[JupiterXV]

VOTE: Titus

[JupiterXV]

Oh I forgot those two even existed

[JupiterXV]

i mean i guess my issue is that titus is posting but not doing anything i guess? (this also applies to skygazer, i did see them post about gaming) obviously she's posted more than either of the other two but most of her posts are fluff. nono posted like once and disappeared off the face of the earth iirc

[JupiterXV]

Oh I forgot those two even existed

Seems pretty NAI for sky at least. I've never played with nono before so idk if this is normal for them and I'm too lazy to look atm

oh I see
i might check nono's games out later then and/or when i have time. i still have to read yours lol

[JupiterXV]

ooh wait a second

[JupiterXV]

YOU STOLE MY PAGETOP

[JupiterXV]

[JupiterXV]

I don't think Titus is super town but I don't really think she's scummy either. Her tone/demeanor feels pretty relaxed in a good way imo. Her gut reactions/takes have seems pretty genuine and it seems like her posting hasn't really been geared towards trying to get town read, so I guess I slightly lean town on her?

I'm not saying don't vote her Jupiter but of your two scum reads I view shaddowez less favorably personally

I'm currently waiting for shadow to show up before I vote them- my vote on Titus mostly acts as a sort of pressure vote, I guess? to try and pressure her to be more active, if that makes more sense. Tbh that's kind of fair (Titus did ask why everyone was townreading them) but I still maintain that it's kind of hard to townread someone who's been consistenly posting but not doing much to add to gamestate.

[JupiterXV]

it's fine because I kinda goaded it out of you but usually you don't want to say a vote is a pressure vote

kinda loses its power then

[JupiterXV]

Generally I think if it comes down to nothing else Titus is probably more likely to be scum than town because there's been nothing else to give me the impression that she's towny ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

I think my scumlean on shadow's grown a bit into a scumread mostly just cause I've gotten more suspicious of them btu also they're not here to defend themself

I also think I'm gonna gently let go of my null-scum read on Black. I think that reaction she made to one of my posts (#282 iirc) was pretty towny and I skimmed a bit through her scumgame (Newbie 2116) and there seems to be this very distinct tonal difference? Obviously the posts are same but I'm getting different vibes from Black in her scumgame and black here. Like it's same kind of content being pushed out but this Black seems more contributive and generally more towny while that Black is a bit more argumentative and blunt.

[JupiterXV]

Kind of hard to explain but there's kind of a difference between the posts if that makes sense

[JupiterXV]

do you have a read on bella?

null, leaning scum

[JupiterXV]

Meta this, meta that, have you ever meta girl before?

This is still one of the best posts on the site

I will take that part about your tone and meta into account. I think that just makes you slightly less towny
But I really don't see why you as scum would point that out...? Free towncred is free towncred

[JupiterXV]

@ Jupiter in reply to your 222 , its more to do with the jumbled application of your thoughts. It is just so hard to read. I would say that in my humble opinion a little more effort is probably going to help. Just a thought.

So it's just an issue with organization in your book? I'll take that into account

[JupiterXV]

just throwing this out there- what's everyone's opinions on dannflor?

see my 174 but right now I’m getting town vibes, but as Black says in 267 I’ve learned recently not to totally lock him in

thx for responding

[JupiterXV]

Jupiter you can come out of scum isolation, I like your recent interactions

UNVOTE:

yippee i guess

[JupiterXV]

I don't think Titus is super town but I don't really think she's scummy either. Her tone/demeanor feels pretty relaxed in a good way imo. Her gut reactions/takes have seems pretty genuine and it seems like her posting hasn't really been geared towards trying to get town read, so I guess I slightly lean town on her?

I'm not saying don't vote her Jupiter but of your two scum reads I view shaddowez less favorably personally

I'm currently waiting for shadow to show up before I vote them- my vote on Titus mostly acts as a sort of pressure vote, I guess? to try and pressure her to be more active, if that makes more sense. Tbh that's kind of fair (Titus did ask why everyone was townreading them) but I still maintain that it's kind of hard to townread someone who's been consistenly posting but not doing much to add to gamestate.

What? Ok. Why not just vote Shaddow? And what I know of Titus is that you aren’t pressuring her at all

because titus is someone who i scumread, and i wanted to see how shadow would respond to me first... depending on that response it could make shadow more or less scummy. the reason why i vote titus is also to gauge her response, to see if she'll be more active, contribute more, etc.

[JupiterXV]

kurtapika's 335 is good

[JupiterXV]

They seem more filler than content, overly nice and not really taking stances? People like Titus are getting sussed for it but aisa isn't. Plus, I didn't like their vote, it felt very temperature check rather than a read

Actually this is a good take and I'm rather fond of it

[JupiterXV]

Also, the wall of text didn't have an agenda, which is often towny

I also don't have agenda

[JupiterXV]

kurtapika's 335 is good

no it's really not

okay wait sorry for the lack of elaboration
I like the vibes: it doesn't feel like it has any specific agenda. Just thoughts and content, and it makes Kurtapika less scummy than a lot of the other lowposters

[JupiterXV]

jupiter’s new pfp xD so cute

thank you!!!

“would scum make enemies so early?” as reason for t3 town, seen it a lot
asking me: don’t see why not!
can see it done without meaning to, scum can’t see into the future kek
at least intended purpose seems to be: “good early game push, moving the game forward, seems town” w/e etc

i mean idk this is pretty fair. though i mean i'm decently familiar with t3 and i know he's a competent player so at the time it didn't make much sense to me

162: reading plainly, seems to me, scum soft defend/explain potential playstyle on buddy Jupiter, backs to neutral, in attempt to not defend too much?!

out of curiosity, if me or kurtapika flipped town, what would the other person look like?

reading more, unfortunately cannot save super scum vibes,159… tragic…

what does this mean.... cant understand sorry

[JupiterXV]

To add to this I think fading low information slots is probably a lot worse than someone who's flip could give us some insight into the rest of the playerlist

Following up on the above, Kurtapika is recommending a policy lim on low info players in 335, so why the TR and no questioning of this play if you don't like it?

i didn't really read it like a policy lim, more like a PoE?

[JupiterXV]

kurtapika's 335 is good

no it's really not

okay wait sorry for the lack of elaboration
I like the vibes: it doesn't feel like it has any specific agenda. Just thoughts and content, and it makes Kurtapika less scummy than a lot of the other lowposters

I don't follow this take at all. My gut reaction to that post was that it was the most agenda'd post made in the entire game so far.

The two paragraphs at the end justifying a vote on Skygazer especially feel like a very specific agenda and not one that I think comes naturally out of a townie trying to find scum/town in this game

i mean, i'm not talking about the skygazer part. that one's weird, but i mean like the general vibe about it
..fuck this is hard to explain. i generally skimmed the post but the manner in which the content came out felt better to me than it was before, if that makes sense???

[JupiterXV]

i mean they're voting skygazer for a similar reason to me voting titus right? i'm voting titus to get her reaction, and prompt her to be more active
voting lowposters -> get a reaction from the lowposter -> make them no longer a lowposter?

[JupiterXV]

i mean i would've probably voted sky if i hadn't forgotten that they didn't exist
i think titus has posted so for now UNVOTE:

[JupiterXV]

@Jupiter, Do you have an issue with gut reads? I'm not sure what you want me to say. I'm not the type to use words to say nothing. If it's a gut read, I don't have a logical explanation.

I'm struggling right now due to the lack of efficiency with words. I may not contribute many walls anymore but every word has a purpose.

no, i don't actually have an issue with gutreads. usually they help me solidify my reads on other players
i just think that you've been here a bit, but haven't done that much. none of your posts come off as particularly memorable and despite the fact that i remeber you've been here, i don't remember anything about what you've done. which is why this read on you exists because it pinged a little spot in my head.
i'll reread through your posts in a bit, if you want (on "every word has a purpose")

[JupiterXV]

Everyone, please try to use proper grammar. It's very hard to understand posts that don't have it.

is it okay if i type like this (without capital letters?)

[JupiterXV]

i mean i would've probably voted sky if i hadn't forgotten that they didn't exist
i think titus has posted so for now UNVOTE:

what did you get from titus that made you town read her now

why aren't you now voting sky if that's someone you would vote

i didn't actually see the content of titus' post, i just decided to unvote since the goal of getting her to post was achieved. after reading her post i acknowledge that i may have been wrong to scumread her so quickly and i should reevaluate her slot since her defense makes sense to me. i also recalled what you said about the general vibe about her posts

and actually i dunno why not LOL. sure let's have a go at it! VOTE: Skygazer

[JupiterXV]

is it too late to say I didn't actually read Kurtapika's post lmfao
sorry gang I'm a liar I read the first two paragraphs and promptly dipped2

[JupiterXV]

I understand the scum reads on Jupiter

I think they have a posting style that is very stream of consciousness and somewhat performative and I tend to scum read that type of posting style a lot. But idk currently I feel that is more a sign of personality than a sign of alignment in this game

But like I *get* it

true and real of you to say

[JupiterXV]

never did i express a scumread on t3 in the posts they're claiming i do

Where do I say you expressed a scumread? In 119 I mention that it feels like you found a reason to vote him, but part of your SR on me is based on explicit wording that didn't happen.

i was never voting t3 because i scumread t3. it was an RVS vote and it remained there for several pages before i removed it. in fact, i never had a confident sr on t3 at all. i wasn't "backing off" of anything because it was an RVS vote and i was engaging in conversation with him.

It feel like they saw some reason to vote T3 and have been hanging on to it. 70 sounds like they're starting to form a reason to back out of their vote, without having to look anywhere else just yet.

[JupiterXV]

jupiter where are your scum reads at

im pretty sure i talked about some of them yesterday

lowkey im not vibing w this so VOTE: shaddowez

[JupiterXV]

To add to this I think fading low information slots is probably a lot worse than someone who's flip could give us some insight into the rest of the playerlist

Following up on the above, Kurtapika is recommending a policy lim on low info players in 335, so why the TR and no questioning of this play if you don't like it?

i didn't really read it like a policy lim, more like a PoE?

also just to clarify this wasn't a defense i just saw people talking about PoE in reference to kurtapika's post so that's what i assumed it was about. LOL

[JupiterXV]

i think kurtapika could either be LHF town or scum but honestly i havent actually read 335 cause idont have the patience. but i will now

[JupiterXV]

While you're claiming your initial post was RVS, in that same post you voted T3 you also asked him about his SR, which to me felt as if you were looking to make a case from the get go. Your responses to T3 in 70 were very nonchalant, and felt as if you didn't really care about his answers.

no... why in the world would i start a serious wagon on page one... it was literally an RVS vote, i knew him from somewhere else before. this is actually wild
i talk nonchalant? i've been described as overly casual, overzealous, hyperbolic, etc. all the reasons people are townreading me AND scumreading me for just come down to my personality and how i present myself

[JupiterXV]

i think kurtapika could either be LHF town or scum but honestly i havent actually read 335 cause idont have the patience. but i will now

kurtapika's 335 is good

is it too late to say I didn't actually read Kurtapika's post lmfao
sorry gang I'm a liar I read the first two paragraphs and promptly dipped2

[JupiterXV]

hence why my response to you was absolute dogshit because i had no idea what i was talking about

[JupiterXV]

Speaking of appeasing. Jupiter feels that way these last several posts. Are you scumreading that too Dann?

i am not appeasing anyone

[JupiterXV]

all the reasons people are townreading me AND scumreading me for just come down to my personality and how i present myself

In a text game that's based on reading into how and what is said? Absolutely

yes, but i do this shit as scum also so it means nothing

[JupiterXV]

actually i wouldn't write walls as scum but yeah generally i would do all of this as scum

[JupiterXV]

i am still wondering why you can't quickly recap your scum reads rather than vaguely saying you talked about them yesterday

you weren't asking me to...?

[JupiterXV]

i can do them now

[JupiterXV]

ig can you resummarize them, jupiter?

oops you did say that. my bad

[JupiterXV]

hey sorry i'm back, had to go. i have another person i'm quietly suspecting but i don't want to talk about it yet since i'm not completely sure on it

titus' moved back to null. as i said: i'd reevaluate

shaddow's push on me is still incredibly weird. maybe i'm biased but i think my vote on t3 was pretty obviously a RVS vote and no one at all at the time was voting t3 seriously? it's not like opportunism or whatever, ive never actually scumread t3 (because as I said, t3's been hovering around null range for a while and going up and down) and i've made this pretty abundantly clear. not quite sure how to read them doubling down on this (because i'm pretty sure scum would pursue an easier vote? me personally i would go for path of least resistance as scum and iirc i'm commonly townread)

NEW:

aisa's dropped down in my readlist, a bit more close to scumlean. i initially townread them due to vibes and contribution but i've seen a lot of IIoA. the early posts were good but they've just been dropping in substance. their posts seem more homogenous than they used to be, more like they're just sort of just hanging around. like i said with shadow i think i'd expect scum to take the path of least resistance and that's kind of what aisa seems to be doing. also where the scumreads at... there's only T3. i think there's kind of the same issue i had with titus here except it's a bit worse because aisa is

more

active and

more

present than titus and now they're just defending themself from bella

[JupiterXV]

Speaking of appeasing. Jupiter feels that way these last several posts. Are you scumreading that too Dann?

i am not appeasing anyone

You seem to be intimidated by Dann or something and it feels like you're trying to appease him by putting your vote where he thinks you should have it. I don't think this makes you scum but I want to hear Dann's opinion on it

i am intimidated by dannflor but i voted sky because it had not crossed my mind in the slightest that that was a thing i should do instead of unvoting

[JupiterXV]

but i voted sky because it had not crossed my mind in the slightest that that was a thing i should do instead of unvoting

this makes no sense

[JupiterXV]

titus was already posting i would think town would place more emphasis on the actual content

i didnt remember any content from titus though lol
that was kind of the point of my push: i remembered they existed and that they were posting but i could not remember anything they had done at all. when i looked through their posts a lot of it was fluff about scumplay and everything else didn't do much, at least fmpov. thus i voted titus and posted that scumread to see how they woudl react? did i not literally say it was a pressure vote?

[JupiterXV]

like i want skygazer to play the game as much as the next person but jupiter voting skygazer when jupiter has made it clear the bar for unvoting is simple *posting* means that their vote is as good as useless

I'd much rather jupiter pursued a wagon on aisa or shaddowez who are already active and jupiter has expressed actual suspicions of

and I'm frustrated I can't figure out whether jupiter doing that is an intentional move to not make waves or if they actually think they are being pro town

i'm literally voting shadow right now
i wanted to see his response before i officially voted him and it wasnt a response i liked so i voted him???

[JupiterXV]

that's not what I'm saying.

You unvoted her simply because she had posted more, not because she posted better content.

no...? i unvoted her because i saw her post meaning that there was something to respond to, and i ended up buying her response because so there was no reason to revote her???

[JupiterXV]

i didn't actually see the content of titus' post, i just decided to unvote since the goal of getting her to post was achieved.

like

your goal was getting her to post

which i don't really get because she was already posting if that is all you wanted from her

my vote on her wasn't achieving anything so it was better to unvote anyways and get rid of it. idk if expressing that sentiment is scummy or not especially since i didn't want to say it before, or whether it'll get me flashwagoned but tbh i don't care anymore. titus's tone came off as tired and a bit frustrated so i decided to jsut let her have some room, and i had better things to do so i didn't vote her again. i wasn't doing anything with it anyways so it really just doesn't matter to me in the slightest

[JupiterXV]

I can't work out if Jupiter admitting to lying twice in like five pages is as scummy as it seems....

But Dan is right: you did unvote because she....posted..you didn't revote her because you didn't find what she posted scummy?

okay, let's go through the stages.
1. i notice titus nto doing much
2. i vote titus
3. i admit that my vote is primarily a pressure vote. it doesn't go anywhere.
4. titus responds
5. without having read it, i give a sigh of relief and remove my vote.
6. i read it and respond. i acknowledge that maybe there was stuff i missed and that i should probably reevaluate, thinking back to what dann said about his townread on titus.
7. and i think to myself that continuing to pressure someone who doesn't seem to be enjoying the game very much is pretty scummy. not in the mafia kind of scummy way, but i don't want to ruin someone else's game experience.
8. i move titus up to around the null section, and i tell myself i will revisit and reevaluate later.
9. all of this is happening now

i don't think omitting part of my motive is the same as lying.

[JupiterXV]

shaddow's push on me is still incredibly weird. maybe i'm biased but i think my vote on t3 was pretty obviously a RVS vote and no one at all at the time was voting t3 seriously? it's not like opportunism or whatever, ive never actually scumread t3 (because as I said, t3's been hovering around null range for a while and going up and down) and i've made this pretty abundantly clear. not quite sure how to read them doubling down on this (because i'm pretty sure scum would pursue an easier vote? me personally i would go for path of least resistance as scum and iirc i'm commonly townread)

can we please talk about this more? am i the only one noticing this???

[JupiterXV]

Jupiter's 476 is extremely confusing, what does this mean? Why lie? What thought process did you have behind that sequence of statements?

I skimmed your post and didn't finish it. Thus I declared it as generally towny without having fully read it. Acting like I had was going to dig me into a deeper hole, so I decided against it and told everyone that I hadn't read it in full.

[JupiterXV]

Are you reading the same post?

i did go on to say that i did not actually read it

[JupiterXV]

A low poster is a low poster. I've been prepping for a trial that started all week. No amount of pressure is going to change that. Pressure can generate posts. It's okay ish at the start if you're looking for a specific thing.

Voting a lurker for lurking generally gets nowhere in games with substantial content to get reads from. It's okay ish if hard townreading all actives but we aren't at that point yet.

hard-townreading everyone who's active is not a good idea i think

[JupiterXV]

I am not a grammar jerk but extensive errors like run ons without spaces between paragraphs are hard. I don't use perfect grammar but incoherent posts get ignored as if they were never made.

ok cool ty

[JupiterXV]

one quick question before i go to sleep: kurtapika, since you've never actually expressed scumreads (you've just been talking about who's best to eliminate), what are they and why? you can just drop a username and a sentence or two of reasoning. i just wanna know

[JupiterXV]

JupiterXV I'm here now...

im sleepy

[JupiterXV]

ok i went to sleep im alive now

[JupiterXV]

Ok gut t3 + k, no reasons just impulse

do you have any townreads?

[JupiterXV]

Low key annoyed at having to defend myself against a meta read for like the 20th game this year

The posts she makes in that game and their content are very similar to her play in early in this game.

Go on

It is a feel, they feel the same, not sure what more you want me to say. Your posts in that previous game come across the same as here. That's why I asked the question at the time I did, call it Deja vu if you like. Your own response to the question hasn't been ignored by the way. But I feel you are a good vote at this time. although I am now reading through the thread and that may we change, but I'm not thinking it will. Although there is a thought at the back of my head that the Dann and Bella might actually be working together in their responses to my questions, but its not one that is causing too much doubt or concern as I am null reading both atm.

i don't have the ability to read through yet another one of black's scumgames since i already read through one, but could you find quotes pls like comparisons?

[JupiterXV]

In a nutshell Jupiter is scum and was conscious his posts were bad, thus all the back wheeling and and apologising for lying and not reading. He then took a break from the thread. Possibly to collect his thoughts, rethink his approach maybe, this is all supposition, but possible. Then he came back into the thread and posted in a way to try and quell suspicion.

this is a dogshit take
yesterday i was

absent

. i was outside of my house after 5:45 (and thus away from my computer which i usually do my work on) and i was taking part in a workshop for an extracurricular i'm in. i may not have been posting but i don't have mafia on the brain all of the time- it's why i'm only present in the afternoon and sometimes in the evenings because i have work to do and i have a life outside of mafia.
and idk i'm not trying to "quell suspicion", i'm explaining my thought process because no one understands it. i want to at least be taken seriously in the game bc early on i was kind of posting less seriously and in more of a friendly manner. at that point people were just generally ignoring me or, as you did, push me for my posting style. in between the time i was gone no one engaged me and since no one was talking to me about my shadow scumread i wanted to bring it up again.
also like yea i didn't read kurtapika's post. so what. i backwheeled because i had no idea what i was talking about and i didn't wanna seem stupid.

quoting, to note,, checked jupiter's iso after this post, which has no evidence of reading scum games,, at least pretend xD
posts read fake paranoia, all telling no showing kek!!

didn't i literally have a conversation with black about meta reading her? what are you on about

[JupiterXV]

I haven't liked Jupiter's responses the past few pages. Can you tell me what about Dannflor's push was becoming threatening if you townlean him in 264?

being intimidated =/= feeling threatened ?
i've talked about this before. dannflor seems experienced. dannflor vibes with me. dann seems incredibly cool and very competent of this game. thus i am intimidated.

[JupiterXV]

not contributing can certainly appear to be not townie, sure. but if i were scum, don't you think i'd be more worried about optics? how do you think i would stand to benefit from what i'm doing if i were scum?

this was honestly exactly what i was thinking- went in adhd, noted sky seemed incredibly unconcerned and then now that sky has used this exact defense it's a little bit less credible in my mind, especially since they currently seem to be arguing with black(?)

[JupiterXV]

Sky, I get what you're doing and knock it off.

the only thing i'm doing is letting my adhd run rampant

i also have adhd and i'm letting it run rampant right here in this thread

[JupiterXV]

Black, thoughts on my theory? If you suppose K is scum, does t3 look like a partner? If we suppose t3 is scum, does k look like a partner?

i actually think this theory makes sense- kurtapika and t3 seem like a plausible duo
though i can't say much about how t3's talked about kurtapika since i don't think he has? and he's still on v/la iirc

[JupiterXV]

jupiter called me incredibly cool so jupiter can be town

zoinks

[JupiterXV]

I don't like Dannflor's vote but I only think it makes him scum if Kurtapika flips scum

Could you explain this logic more? I'm not sure it tracks. Kurtapika is voting Skygazer here, while Dann's voting a person pushing Skygazer. If anything I think Dann only flips scum here if Skygazer does.

I think Skygazer's case against Project is reasonable but I'm not liking how Skygazer is actually defending themselves here. A lot of "Well this is a bad play for scum to do so clearly I wouldn't be doing it" type arguments.

I think there's one Maf in this argument but I'm not super confident on which one it is.

posts like this are why i townread outworld

[JupiterXV]

I’m still looking at Jupiter and Shaddow. Trouble is you and Jupiter are camped on Shaddow.

am i not allowed to be voting shaddow? you haven't actually spoken much about shadow in your prior posts so this feels a bit out of the blue

[JupiterXV]

Using meta in some capacity is fine. Using it as the sole reason for a vote, and only comparing two games, is what annoys me. People don't use meta correctly. I could link to all the times people have used meta incorrectly on me in my signature and people would still be like "oh Black's playing like her scum game!!!"

as that one person you quoted said: "meta this, meta that, have you ever meta girl"

tbh black's frustration here reads townie

[JupiterXV]

Jupiter is doing nothing whatsoever to make himself look less like scum FMPOV. The only reason to manufacture a read on someone is if you already know their alignment. If he's town, there's no good defense for not reading a post and claiming it's AI (either way), then digging his heels in and finally saying he lied about reading it doesn't help at all. His vote on me and his reason for trying to get people to vote me also feels very OMGUSy, as it's "his push on me sucks, therefore he's scum"

and yeah there's no good defense, i'm not even trying to? as i said i skimmed it and moved on since the beginning of it seemed fine. that's how that whole debacle happened. i was just trying to read through everything so i could actively be a part of conversation, because i'm gone during the day
in fact i'd argue that as scum i would have zero reason to do that and put such a big target on my back? like what do i gain from "not reading" a post and slapping a random alignment on it when i read everything after it and saw that it was a rather contentious post (e.g with kurtapika the rest of the posts in the page were talking abotu PoE or the vote they placed on sky)
honestly i do not give a crap about this whole "not reading a post" thing, it's really just NAI. getting real sick and tired of continually getting accused of being scum about it?

also you haven't pushed anyone besides me. if you were pushing someone else i would still be scumreading you. i've been asking you about your reasoning and you've just let those responses drop. there's no reason for me to rescind my scumread when your responses on me are still scummy

[JupiterXV]

not contributing can certainly appear to be not townie, sure. but if i were scum, don't you think i'd be more worried about optics? how do you think i would stand to benefit from what i'm doing if i were scum?

this was honestly exactly what i was thinking- went in adhd, noted sky seemed incredibly unconcerned and then now that sky has used this exact defense it's a little bit less credible in my mind, especially since they currently seem to be arguing with black(?)

defending myself is scummy now? ppl are sus at me for not caring about the game and then get sus for me caring about the game? there's no winning huh

i didn't say that defending yourself was scummy. it's just that a lot of your early defense posts are just about what you have to benefit from this and while it's a valid argument you've just been repeating it a lot! i can't force you to be active but i appreciate your activity a lot

[JupiterXV]

Why would it not? It’s rather immaterial to be honest in my opinion. But if you really need an answer Then it did, but only for a moment.

Because your whole read is based on Open 888 and I didn't get defensive at all when being pushed as scum in that game. It doesn't feel like you are putting much thought into this read at all

I am putting into it all I can based on experience.

Are you now trying to cast doubt on my ability to play the game?

The more you try to push me away from my read the more I will stay firm on it.

where in the world did this come out of

[JupiterXV]

I don’t like this idea. To me that is not the best move for town, just a random lim on a low contributor. I appreciate there is likely scum essentially hiding in the shadows but it’s a complete shot in the dark.

Surely it’s better to lim someone specific we have some suspicion over rather than just a complete random lim?

this feels at odds with his vote on me

VOTE: proj

i think his vote on you is because you pulled up and declared you wouldn't be doing much at all- while you were just inactive before now you're here but just saying you won't be contributing much

[JupiterXV]

there are other parts of his iso i dont like too fwiw

Care to share?

it feels like you're playing to get townread instead of playing to solve. can't find the words beyond that at the moment.
[/quote]

are you willing to find quotes? ive always found project's posts to be generally towny if not a bit hollow

[JupiterXV]

i mean sure on the surface level it seems solvey but i feel like his posts have a lot of fluff to them in a way that reads to me as more worried about optics/

putting on the appearance of solving

. i feel like his vote on me indicates that he's not actually putting that much thought into solving the game.

and immediately assuming its a pressure vote is certainly scummy. it's a weird conclusion to jump to off of a naked vote, kind of like those moments where scum assumes a guilty against them is a fake guilty rather than calling the guiltying part scum. it reads like someone who is too self-aware of their own optics and has been actively evaluating how people are reading them. i don't see how the prior post ties into anything other than both posts involve naked votes.

but i think project is more than capable of defending himself and i'd rather see him do that than someone else, thanks.

it clicks with me, then

[JupiterXV]

but i think project is more than capable of defending himself and i'd rather see him do that than someone else, thanks.

I mean Project is my top townread so I'm going to raise my eyebrows when someone pushes that for reasons I don't think are valid. But ok I'll take a step back for now

tbh while the burden of proof is on sky, i'd argue this feels like a genuine push? particularly the tidbit about commenting on dann's vote and labelling it a "pressure vote"

[JupiterXV]

mmm but i don't understand what difference that makes. shitposting aside, i've very clearly indicated i want to start contributing at some point. idk

oh yeah i know, i'm just trying to express what i understood about his vote, i guess? the thought progression from "don't vote lowposters" -> "let's vote sky" makes sense to me.
though i guess this vote on you did get you to be a bit more active in terms of gamestate so W for the thread i guess

[JupiterXV]

i dont wanna play mafia anymore im gonna play papa's pizzeria bye gang

[JupiterXV]

hey i'm back for like 10 mins before i gotta get back to work
titus, if t3 or kurtapika flipped town, what would you feel about the other?

[JupiterXV]

Also the ‘focused on winning the argument’ point. I think that would just show my inexperience rather than indicative of scum behaviour.

i think this is a really bad take on dann's argument
i think actually that what dann is implying that town... shouldn't have to try to win the argument, if that makes sense? like you, to me at least, seem zoomed in on just simply beating sky. town wants to be able to gauge the reactions of the person they're pushing (as well as the other people interacting with the aforementioned push) to help see interactions between players, and help town/scumhunt.that sort of scumhunting thing feels like it's been seriously pushed away 
bleh my take is hard to explain ask me if you need any clarification, willing to type it up again
for what it's worth, i don't think that's attributed to experience either

[JupiterXV]

lmao dann why are you my strongest townread now

[JupiterXV]

i have to go in like three minutes, i'll talk about my opinion on the project v sky thing later, if you all have any questions it'd be sick you asked them now so i don't have to return to them in around an hour

[JupiterXV]

hey i'm back for like 10 mins before i gotta get back to work
titus, if t3 or kurtapika flipped town, what would you feel about the other?

I'd reassess tomorrow with new data and flips. I would likely still feel they were scummy and I was only off by one.

so independently scummy but likely to be partnered?

[JupiterXV]

i thought your theory was based on the fact that they were scum bc likely to be paired

also where's aisa at? lol

[JupiterXV]

there are other parts of his iso i dont like too fwiw

Care to share?

it feels like you're playing to get townread instead of playing to solve. can't find the words beyond that at the moment.

are you willing to find quotes? I've always found project's posts to be generally towny if not a bit hollow

you ask this a lot, but you have also said

honestly i do not give a crap about this whole "not reading a post" thing, it's really just NAI. getting real sick and tired of continually getting accused of being scum about it?

so if we are finding quotes for you, will you read them?

or is it just a function you are going through to appear townie and actually interested?
[/quote]
oh my

fucking

god
it was a one-time thing that occurred due to my own laziness, it doesnt mean i'm not reading the rest of the fucking thread as a whole?

[JupiterXV]

cant be bothered to fix that quote as im on mobile

[JupiterXV]

In a nutshell Jupiter is scum and was conscious his posts were bad, thus all the back wheeling and and apologising for lying and not reading. He then took a break from the thread. Possibly to collect his thoughts, rethink his approach maybe,

this is all supposition, but possible

. Then he came back into the thread and posted in a way to try and quell suspicion.

this is a dogshit take
yesterday i was

absent

. i was outside of my house after 5:45 (and thus away from my computer which i usually do my work on) and i was taking part in a workshop for an extracurricular i'm in. i may not have been posting but i don't have mafia on the brain all of the time- it's why i'm only present in the afternoon and sometimes in the evenings because i have work to do and i have a life outside of mafia.
and idk i'm not trying to "quell suspicion", i'm explaining my thought process because no one understands it. i want to at least be taken seriously in the game bc early on i was kind of posting less seriously and in more of a friendly manner. at that point people were just generally ignoring me or, as you did, push me for my posting style. in between the time i was gone no one engaged me and since no one was talking to me about my shadow scumread i wanted to bring it up again.
also like yea i didn't read kurtapika's post. so what. i backwheeled because i had no idea what i was talking about and i didn't wanna seem stupid.

quoting, to note,, checked jupiter's iso after this post, which has no evidence of reading scum games,, at least pretend xD
posts read fake paranoia, all telling no showing kek!!

didn't i literally have a conversation with black about meta reading her? what are you on about

you really don't read things do you, check the bolded part. basically yes its just guess work based on what I knew at the time, and pretty much me thinking out loud.. like you say you are doing here. Do I believe what you say here, I have no idea what to believe you are doing outside IRL,

you could be sitting in a toilet having fun with yourself for all I know

. Do I like what your saying now in thread, meh, you have a lot to say I will grant you that.

HUH?

[JupiterXV]

i don't have the ability to read through yet another one of black's scumgames since i already read through one, but could you find quotes pls like comparisons?

why not? if you have read so many then why do you need another. If you want to look go look, but then you don't read things anyway do you.

can you please stop with the fucking shade about me skimming ONE POST. its not even scum indivative my god
im saying that because i barely have time to play now so im asking if someone can do it??? you're the one pushing her, the burden of proof lies on YOU
i was honestly considering black earlier but out of sheer spite im just not gonna

[JupiterXV]

The frustration in 667 reads town to me

YES becausr everyone scumreading me is now pushing me for something thats fucking nai and its the ONLY THING people have been saying about me at all when theyve been pushing me
like fuck off, find a better reason to scumread me and stop quibbling at me im pretty sick of it
i gotta go now, more about skygazer when i get home in the afternoon

[JupiterXV]

Sup I’m back, using a phone to write this so formatting/everything else might be weird. I’m gonna get a read on the thread rq

[JupiterXV]

If you look at K's posting, K still won't call anyone scum. People could be scum. He'd want a flip on AK but yet doesn't vote.

K completely deflects the fact that there's no follow up on T3.

Yup, I actually asked Kurtapika if they had any scumreads and they didn’t even answer (I think you were actually there for that)

[JupiterXV]

I'm not anxious I'm annoyed

Kurta is still town

Why do you townread Kurtapika again???

[JupiterXV]

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

Kinda just tired of this dude and I think there's a decent chance he flips scum

Someone wagon this with me

I’m also tired of him but I’m still a little bit sure he’s town. Can you explain your scumread

[JupiterXV]

Girl posting on phone is so hard
How do you guys even do this

[JupiterXV]

also you haven't pushed anyone besides me. if you were pushing someone else i would still be scumreading you. i've been asking you about your reasoning and you've just let those responses drop. there's no reason for me to rescind my scumread when your responses on me are still scummy

1) Your main reason for SRing me that you've stated is because of my push on you. If I was pushing someone else, interactions would be completely different - how can you say that you'd be SRing me even if I was pushing someone else without knowing how those interactions would go?

2) So am I letting my responses drop, or are they scummy? You may not like them and SR them, but saying I'm not responding is disingenuous at best. In 420 I respond to your 288, in 470 I respond to your 233.

1. Iirc, you called my push on you OMGUS or something along those lines. What I’m trying to say is if you made that push on literally anyone else for the same reason I’d also find it absurd.
2. I’m pretty sure I made more than just two posts about you? There’s certainly been more responses than that what

Tbh I’m willing to re evaluate you but you usually just come into the thread argue with me and disappear, so honestly it’d be nice to see more action from you since you’re borderline tunneling on me

[JupiterXV]

@Titus

- Do both of your other reads change if the first of any of them to flip are town?

There seem to be a lot of associative reads in this game, which is great until they're not.

Already asked this question, Titus said she thought they’re independently scummy as well and would continue to push them

[JupiterXV]

I swear I saw another post about me but I cant find it lmao

[JupiterXV]

I am not sure about Jupiter's outbursts, are they genuine or an act

I've been asking myself the same question - they could be AtE, but more of them do feel genuine than not. My problem is they have two votes on them, and seem to be lashing out about one particular item that only the two people currently voting them have even really brought up.

People who aren’t voting me have also talked about it and I think Afrayed has been a bit shitty to me so I don’t know how you expect me to react to this in a winning fashion

[JupiterXV]

I’d find quotes but it’s too hard on mobile

[JupiterXV]

I still don't like project repeatedly using lack of experience or newb status as a defense

That's something I see from new scum a lot of the time

I don't really feel as good about it at the moment though and I can't really explain why

^ what i was saying

personally i want to move my vote to project but i'm also pretty convinced on kurtapika, especially considering the blatant lack of solving and scumreads coming from kurta (e.g i literally asked them hey what're your scumreads" and they didnt answer)

[JupiterXV]

Yeah I think I'm also losing my sr on you lmao VOTE: Kurtapika

1) I did call it an OMGUS at one point, because that's what it felt like. However, you seem to be thinking about it backwards because my vote on you was prior to that, the push wasn't because I saw your vote that way. That said, clearing up that the same argument on someone else would have led to the same conclusion makes more sense than the original phrasing.

No, sorry- what I'm saying is that my push on you isn't OMGUS because I'm not voting you just because you're voting me- it's an issue I had with your initial post and tbh it comes off as a weird, reachy vote to make. If you had made that same vote with someone else, I also would've pushed you for it. Just clarifying.

2) I wasn't going to write an entire post with all of our interactions, I just brought up a few as examples to disprove what you said.

I mean idk I'm going off of memory here, but I do feel there's a few things you might've dropped. Dont' know how factually correct it is but maybe it's just your general inactivity

I may have missed them, but didn't recall seeing many (if any) others pushing based on that specific post. I did notice Afrayed's interactions with you, but again they seemed based on other things.

I think generally a lot of the recent posts that have mentioned me have discussed me lying, though
Afrayed came back around to scumread me due to that post series though, just so you know

[JupiterXV]

Why disregard 566?

okay i know this isn't gonna sound good considering my previous track record with skimming posts but i literally fixated only on this line ("I haven't liked Jupiter's responses the past few pages. Can you tell me what about Dannflor's push was becoming threatening if you townlean him in 264?") of the post and moved on i did not read anything else i am so fucking sorry kurta. bro adhd brains are fucked up how did i miss a post clearly adressed to me

[JupiterXV]

how did this happen again and why is it always you

[JupiterXV]

prodge, will be a bit busy, hot take it's kurta/t3/black
maybe? idk, not too sure on the latter

[JupiterXV]

latter two*
they just seem asociatied

[JupiterXV]

It’s also nono’s solve iirc?

i think nono's solve includes me over black (though i'm frankly really unsure why nono scumreads me since there's never been a clear reason as to why)

[JupiterXV]

T3's posting so far, on the other hand, actively feels like something that could come from scum

..didn't t3 literally just come back from v/la??? what posting are you talking about? there was one (more recent) post that t3 had made as of this post i don't think that catchup post in itself is scummy enough to get you to completely change your mind

T3 is not a bad vote based on his content so far. Obviously the glaring thing is there has not been much content so far

I promise I will be useful again tomorrow

yeah you say it yourself, there's no content
while i do think t3 is randscum(correct word?) like this is just not right

also i figured i shoudl elaborate on my hot take: kurta seems scummy to me, t3 and kurta seem partnered (titus talked about this), kurta and black are VERY clearly partnered

[JupiterXV]

I changed my mind when I saw a post from someone else (you?) calling out the "just statistically" post.

i wasn't calling it out, it just startled me because it was like. yeah sure just statistically but it's theory there's alway sa reason

[JupiterXV]

camelCasedSnivy replaces Nono

welcome!

[JupiterXV]

also i figured i shoudl elaborate on my hot take: kurta seems scummy to me, t3 and kurta seem partnered (titus talked about this), kurta and black are VERY clearly partnered

I don't understand this...didn't you have me as a townread? Why am I linked to Kurta fypov?

I did townread you before, but as shadow shifted up I felt I wasn't getting those distinct town vibes from you anymore so I found I was more unsure about you.
I don't think you're neccesarily scum, but I think that if Kurta flips scum, you will almost certainly also flip scum. You've basiclaly been townreading and defending Kurta the entire game, and since I've never seen Kurta in such a towny light I just don't buy what you say.

[JupiterXV]

i will have it be known that i don't really wanna vote sky today unless someone manages to convince me

[JupiterXV]

i will have it be known that i don't really wanna vote sky today unless someone manages to convince me

Why?

just don't think she's scum

[JupiterXV]

PAGETOP

[JupiterXV]

i'll respond to stuff in a second i was just waiting for someone to push it up to post #999 lmao

[JupiterXV]

thanks black i just sat there reloading the thread for like three minutes

[JupiterXV]

i will have it be known that i don't really wanna vote sky today unless someone manages to convince me

Why?

just don't think she's scum

Vibes? Gut? What?

a bit of both actually
i can't say much about his meta since i've literally never seen it before and i haven't read any of their scum/towngames, so i'm a little less willing to believe this meta read, but sky's frustration reads as incredibly genuine. i think it's exactly how i would react were i in their situation, and i think while the counterwagon on project occured ages ago i thought it was also pretty reasonable. so while sky hasn't done anything concretely towny, i don't think they're a person i'd be willing to vote. at least, not unless someone manages to convince me otherwise.

[JupiterXV]

also i’ll be multitasking (working on smth for an ap class) so responses & catchup will be fairly slow actually jsyk
black ill respond to you asap

[JupiterXV]

only able to be on for a bit but titus can you tell me who u thought black was pocketing & why?

[JupiterXV]

VOTE: t3
more later, busy rn

[JupiterXV]

here for a moment on mobile (on a ratty bus on the way home from school)
I’ve skimmed thread, generally agree with dann’s case but I think there’s something weird about Black’s intent to hammer post
does “I’ll deathtunnel Titus if t3 flips town” not feel weird in like, any way at all? there’s something wrong about that but I can’t explain this weird feeling I’m getting from it

[JupiterXV]

if black flips scum does this make Titus town? or is there a chance they’re bussing
also how many votes is black at? I wanna move my vote there but I don’t wanna accidentally hammer

[JupiterXV]

Pagetop
NOOO

[JupiterXV]

VOTE: Black, that's e-2

[JupiterXV]

Wait shit I just got here
That means Black is 100% confscum then

[JupiterXV]

Are we still allowed to talk?

[JupiterXV]

oh sick!! alright uh i'm gonan go back to that thign i mentioned earlier
let me find it

[JupiterXV]

What the fuck

don't like this reaction all that much

why not? i was reading and i scroleld down, saw her self-hammer and also said that out loud lol

[JupiterXV]

fair

[JupiterXV]

hey, prodge sorry im hyperfixating on minecraft ill get back to this game in a bit
no deaths is sick though

[JupiterXV]

skimming quickly through thread- bit busy and i have to take a shower in four minutes if i wanna keep my schedule tight & still have time for mafia so i'll point some few things out

It's the first night of Chanukkah lol

oh shit this reminds me i should probably tell my friend happy hanukkah

[JupiterXV]

kind of just want to town clear Jupiter and Bellaphant for not realizing they were putting Black at e-1 and e-0 respectively

but i was putting black at e-2...?

[JupiterXV]

i'm wavering on T3, i feel like this could be unpartnered? i feel like scum tend to try and ignore moments when their partner gets called out, so T3 addressing it directly gives townie vibes in hindsight. that being said, i rlly don't like T3's end of day yesterday

i think that one post from black about pushing titus if t3 flipped town might spew t3 as town? idk if that's how it works though. otherwise i'd say t3 is around a null, probably more likely to be scum
also i think his eod was fine, i was also pretty surprised by the self-hammer

[JupiterXV]

The doctor can't heal Dann, AF, and Bella, not to mention myself but maybe I'm not that obvtown.

why can't they? dann seemed incredibly towny to me, i don't see a world where doctor isn't on dann n1

[JupiterXV]

I would vote kurtapika before T3

We can eliminate both of them but I feel much stronger on T3. The difference is like night and day.

to add my own opinion on the matter: i don't have strong opinions on either. i used to hard scumread kurta but idk they haven't done anything at all i think it's kind of hard to scumread someone lurky

[JupiterXV]

like dann im more willing to vote kurtapika unless someone convinces me otherwise, but it's really hard to suspect a person who hasn't posted all because there's no way to pressure someone so detached from discussion

[JupiterXV]

my inclination is that black's teammates are well positioned off her flip

also revisiting this comment- this is what i'm thinking atm but i can't really think of any good potential partners beyond my previous scumreads and even then, aisa doesn't pair cleanly (since i also got the vibe that black is pocketing aisa)
speaking of pocketing, titus, you mentioned that your third scumread had been pocketing people. what people were black pocketing?

[JupiterXV]

i think i asked that question a while ago but i dont really remember so im asking it again

[JupiterXV]

VOTE: Skygazer

are you scumreading me now? your reasoning yesterday was just survivalism, so is that still the case? or did something change?

wait what
i didn't pay much attention to it but iirc t3's push on you was a meta read? am i wrong?

[JupiterXV]

Aside from Afrayed Knott, the wagons on T3, Black and K all overlap which suggests Black is not being bussed. Black's selfhammer was a ploy to get us to turn on each other.

sorry about this but i feel particularly confused- how does this confirm sky as town? i don't understand the vca. could you explain it?

[JupiterXV]

then good game to the JK

this to Titus... and ok Jupiter has risen

i have risen!!!

[JupiterXV]

btw i have to go now but i strong townread ower

[JupiterXV]

btw i have to go now but i strong townread ower

I'm sure you do.. but why?

i'm back now- their interactions with black make them look INCREDIBLY TOWNY including the flip, and their reads have been consistent in terms of development

[JupiterXV]

The doctor can't heal Dann, AF, and Bella, not to mention myself but maybe I'm not that obvtown.

why can't they? dann seemed incredibly towny to me, i don't see a world where doctor isn't on dann n1

I meant the doc and the jk combined can't heal all of them. Poor wording.

oops okay

[JupiterXV]

So suppose you, do you look for scum? Of course. Then who is the towniest scum?

You are jk. Ebwop

ok, I do need to read ahead... if I was JK last night I would have targeted T3 or Shaddow

Then your vote should be on T3 or Shadow logically. That's the no nightkill explanation.

but you're not jailkeeper, so why is your vote on t3 if you weren't the one targeting him?

[JupiterXV]

@titus yeah that makes sense, i can see where you're coming from. personally i really don't think t3 is as likely to be partnered with black as a lot of you do (and i also personally think that black's other partners are probably less obvious).
i also genuinely do not buy that, if t3 were scum, that he would've submitted the kill. like not for one second- he was the consensus wagon on d1 up until black fucked up

fair enough and a conclusive argument tbf, but what a bout a bus? Apparently Black and I could have set one up so early in D1 it is pure genius, in fact so strategically brilliant, we had the foresight to predict the out come of this game based on it..

i don't buy it's bussing because OWER's posts read as incredibly genuine to me and they've been generally towny all around
also that last sentence makes no sense, are you trying to contest ower's case on you by trying to talk to /me/ about it???

also, take all the time you need, titus! appreciate it

[JupiterXV]

My statement is all one sentence with punctuation, its a counter statement to the crap Ower is hypothesizing. I take pride in the fact I kept Black as a scum read and she was. and for me that's two games in a row I have called her out and was fucking right .

yeah but i'm not pushing you yet so how about you leave me out of this jfc

[JupiterXV]

i literally said i townread OWER why are you arguing with me about a scumread i dont have... i literally just was explaining why i townread them and you're going on tangent about the black wagon and ower's push on you????

[JupiterXV]

like send your counter-statement to OWER not me. smfh. you're like "what stops ower's interactions w/ black from being a bus? also ower's making this push on me where he says i [etc]"
like.... THATS SO UNRELATED what did i ever do to you bro

oops i got ninja'd but i'll post this anyways and then respond

[JupiterXV]

pagetop <3

[JupiterXV]

You keep bringing up this argument, but if you were a mislim then why does Black get off your wagon to vote Titus there? If you're town than Black didn't have to post a single thing, not put herself in any danger, to get a town elimination.

iirc people were shifting to her when she voted t3

[JupiterXV]

I think I could buy T3 submitting the kill if Titus is just correct and it's Black/T3/Kurta because at that point it just becomes a 50/50.

i mean it's hard to buy t3 submitting the kill if there's no proof of it lol
were i in t3's position i would have my partner submit it, regardless of how scummy they are

[JupiterXV]

This is incorrect. Dann shifted his vote and Titus followed (kickstarting the speed-lim) directly after I had the initial argument with Black after she voted Titus in 983. The momentum only really switches onto her at 1070.

oh, my bad. what i remembered was black put out intent to hammer and then people started to vote her, and the titus push was after that

[JupiterXV]

T3 maybe, but I'm town

So do you have any other reasons or...?

this post aged so badly lol

[JupiterXV]

OWER you might be right on that

[JupiterXV]

" Ower and Jupiter so you think Dann bussed?

DANN IS MY STRONGEST TOWNREAD? where is this COMING from

[JupiterXV]

also it's ironic the scum queen got limmed day one

[JupiterXV]

Right about what????

I feel like I'm having a stroke.

ah sorry for lack of specification- i'm referring to your 1363
though generally black hasn't seemed to be taking the path of least resistance (because she probably could've jumped on the Kurta wagon earlier to get towncred or pushed some LHF players) so i can see little tidbits of a world where that play comes from a nonpartnered perspective
though that's honestly very unlikely and i've overthinking it

[JupiterXV]

oh, my bad. what i remembered was black put out intent to hammer and then people started to vote her, and the titus push was after that

I had a feeling here,

starting to feel opportunistic If I give my honest take right now.

but said this

but then I am not reading any on the Black wagon as overtly scum right now. Slight feel of a lean on Sky, but for me Titus, Dann and Ower I'm reading as town or leaning town.

what does this have to do with what i said....