Kemusan - Game Over

[skitter30]

Hello hello

@pooky regular vla on friday + saturday

I'm gonna read up and be around a little later

[skitter30]

i'm at
ffery scum
fb might be scum
rh9 sounds like scum but probably isn't

spiffeh town
rce town
lld might be town but i wouldn't bet anything on that one
got the faintest townpings on enchant but again wouldn't bet on that

ton of people i probably can't/won't be able to read well

[skitter30]

hey ydra

[skitter30]

skitter :]
i am glad u signed up i was missing playing games w u the other day

:)

[skitter30]

i'm at
ffery scum
fb might be scum

this is some spice that i like.
skitter u think im bussing ffery?

i can see it,yes

[skitter30]

i just read the 25 page thread and started skimming at some point, fwiw

but fferry's first posts pinged a lot
and you did call that out but the way you did made me think: i can totally see you as her partner doing that

[skitter30]

i don't have a read on fire other than that fwiw

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

What's a good way for town to approach this phase? I read a couple of pairing phases of other dance games but I'm not sure what's optimal.

God damn Fferyllt r u scum

What's a good way for town to approach this phase? I read a couple of pairing phases of other dance games but I'm not sure what's optimal.

God damn Fferyllt r u scum

Nope! I saw my role PM and I started snapping my smug, smug fingers.

ur so failing the vibe checks

i can't be only one who can't see fferyllt is obvious scum

fferyllt entrance be like this in this game:

except replace kids with town.

i can't be only one who can't see fferyllt is obvious scum

I don't really care how you read me. There are players in this list who haven't lost their cards so far. So, I'll focus on players I can read, and/or who incite aforementioned paranoia.

iits okay fferyllt just because I know ur scum doesn't mean anything. No one will listen to me after pairing and im gone. U don't need to front with me about how u "don't care how i read you"

these are what made me think that

[skitter30]

enchant's probably ok

[skitter30]

enchant's probably ok

More null on him but leaning that way too

eh actually i'm upgrading (downgrading?) you to a scumread independent of ffery

[skitter30]

i've never played a dance game and i don't know who i'm supposed to be trying to pair with or what the optimal way is to form pairings

[skitter30]

why

[skitter30]

*her

[skitter30]

i don't think i'm deciding rn

[skitter30]

indeed, ty

fire you're being super scummy >.>

[skitter30]

Woof boy I wanted to note despite my bravado my plan is to pair with Ffery and then to make sure none of us sneaky fucks is a risk in endgame, we blow ourselves up after submitting our morph solve right before the intermission night kill.

And now she can't stop me~

accept fferylt proposal

i don't hate this so long as you two actually die by endgame

[skitter30]

sounds good to me

[skitter30]

Ladies
Gypyx

Cabd

Ydrasse
Lady Lambdadelta
SirCakez

skitter30

HolySpiritTurtle

fireisredsir

probably someone i can't read
incidentally i can't read many of these people

maybe gypyx or cakez
i don't know how i feel about you being with lld
i feel like you shouldn't be with fire

i don't think you should necessarily go and take this as an invitation to go propose to these people

i saw lld's idea to pair with ydra i think i actually don't hate that b/c if you are scum you'd have to suicide to kill her

[skitter30]

i feel like this is a bad idea

[skitter30]

i feel like this is a bad idea

Wait the potent mind altering drugs, or the proposal?

proposal

[skitter30]

well, hopefully they won't make it to the end anyways

[skitter30]

you're townreading both of them?

[skitter30]

that was to ffery, but thank you

which one is the .5?

[skitter30]

Well i like cakez for town rn

I feel like i no longer need fo sort lld b/c fire is likely to suicide at some point so eh

[skitter30]

Ok, cuz i was thinking about skitter's take that u and ff are partners playing the long game. I think my initial thought was that the possibility was pretty unlikely cuz i think it's weird to confidently bus ur partner right off the bat. But maybe u saw ff's opening posts as an opportunity and just decided to run with it? It's a p distant possibility, but maybe somewhat valid. skitter, i'm curious about how you'd view ff and fire's more recent interactions. Does it still looking like bussing?

fwiw fire, i feel p good about u rn and bad about ff. 765 pings of possible TMI


I'm also curious
Cabd, how much of u accepting ff's proposal is u actually townreading her compared to linking up w/ an old buddy in the hopes that she's also town and that yall could have fun solving together

I kinda feel like if scum!fire saw his partner making scummy posts, he 100% would call her out on them, esp in the beginning of the game

More recent posts don't especially feel svs to me, but don't really change my opinion either

[skitter30]

I just feel like

Sigh

At this

[skitter30]

Why did you pair with fire?

[skitter30]

Why did you pair with fire?

cause i genuinely thought he would do the thing i'm describing for me, he sees me as town, he knows i'm valuable, and he's never NOT going to be paranoid of me... but in the past HAS literally alloweed a game to go through because he said he was certain on me being town and would not vote me (Tenet where i was scum) so there WAS a world where if i played well enough i get shot in the night which is like, the best world.

if i could catch two scum in dance phase 1 and get shot that was like, my dream

Oooh i was in that one

I think u might actually be town here which is rather unfortunate as fire is prob scum

[skitter30]

No idea

[skitter30]

You understood it like 5 pages ago, no?

[skitter30]

That's what it initially was based on
I didn't like you townreading me for having that take

[skitter30]

enchant's probably ok

More null on him but leaning that way too

i've never played a dance game and i don't know who i'm supposed to be trying to pair with or what the optimal way is to form pairings

You and FF should dance and find out together.

No, skitter is town. We should have town player dance with skitter

STD/Skitter is a good pairing imo

I don't love it because no offense RH9 but while i think ur town here. I think mafia are going to go after u to make skitter elimmable by pressuring her to leave u or voting u 2 out.

I guess same will probably with STD

These and their timing felt weird and scummy to me

[skitter30]

I’m confused why they’d have that argument if FB is scum.
You see, if he was scum it would be bad for him to leave.

If she'a town he wants to leave, no? If anything agreeing to stay until second dance is townie

[skitter30]

okay but why

I don't know why you were townreading me, and so strongly, off of that take
It didnt feel like a natural reaction to me ig, to have that strong of a read on me that you'd say all of those things

[skitter30]

That's the exaxt kind of post i'm going to scumread >.>

Pedit @fire

[skitter30]

Fair enuf!

[skitter30]

I’m confused why they’d have that argument if FB is scum.
You see, if he was scum it would be bad for him to leave.

If she'a town he wants to leave, no? If anything agreeing to stay until second dance is townie

Huh? If they leave they die right? That’s bad for their win condition.

I'm kinda doubtful fire as either alignment lasts till endgame

[skitter30]

Y

I feel like he's likely to choose to leave at some point

Skitter you've seen parts of Firebringer's interactions with me as bussing. And you have said that he's scummy independent of me. Pretend it's second dance and I've flipped town and he hasn't flipped yet.

What does my green flip do to your thoughts about Firebringer?

It alleviates them a bit ig but i kinda think he's scummy independant of u now

[skitter30]

Because if you're town he isn't bussing you, and part of the present scumread is that his early interactions with you felt svs

And if ur town that isnt a thing so that reason for scumreading him isnt really there anymore

(I'm not sure what answer ur looking for from.this question)

[skitter30]

Ok, why are you unsure mine is genuine?
And what does the last sentance mean?

[skitter30]

Sure, kinda surprised nobody complained abt that yet
Still think you're scummy tho
I'm a little less imminently concerned abt you tho since you've paired with cabd and he's indicated he is planning on not surviving till endgame with you

Pedit can you elaborate more on that, namely:
* how do you think the strength of the scumteam affects how you would be read by them?

[skitter30]

Sure, kinda surprised nobody complained abt that yet
Still think you're scummy tho
I'm a little less imminently concerned abt you tho since you've paired with cabd and he's indicated he is planning on not surviving till endgame with you

Pedit can you elaborate more on that, namely:
* how do you think the strength of the scumteam affects how you would be read by them?

It affects how they position around me. That's the data channel I'm looking for atm.

One mastermind on the team can go a long way and can build a lot of esprit de corps. Two or three strong players can make the approach much more multifaceted and above all natural looking.

Do u think anyone other than fire has a genuine read on you?

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

fferylit, Bell Town
Gypyx, Firebringer probably Town

(But I do this thing with Firebringer where I townread him early based off a couple posts and then fail to reevaluate so I'm not gonna do that this time)

RH9's entrance was pretty bad imo but then he had one post that was fine so who knows? I also like that ffery had this exact same thought process and it makes me feel good about myself (and her).

scum!Cabd knows that he has to come into this thread talking a big game about pairing up with/reading ffery so nothing alignment indicative for him so far. I am happy for them to pair up so they can hold each other accountable and maybe I don't have to try to read Cabd because ffery will catch him first if he's bad.

I want someone to pair up with LLD who will not be easily manipulated by her if she happens to be scum and will be willing to leave the dance if she hasn't caught at least two scum by the final phase. I get that these are high standards and open for reevaluation as the game progresses but I can just see scum!LLD being able to dominate this setup if a few key players are removed and with Cabd/fferylit likely pairing up I'm already paranoid of that. For the record, I currently have a town lean on her.

I don't particularly like fireisredsir's posts and would probably be voting there if this were a standard game but I don't have words for this read rn

I am excited to be playing with you all again/for the first time!

Spiffeh that is a surprising amount of sync. Reminds me of WH13.

At this table who among the gents do you think aren't easily manipulable by a hypothetical scum LLD?

So I am easily manipulated by scum LLD but I think my constant paranoia and fear of her scum game would outweigh anything she could do to me so I am willing to pair with her. I selfishly kind of don't want to because I don't want to be in a position where I end up taking us both out as town due to said paranoia and ruin the game for everyone. But I am good with pairing with her if people think it could be optimal, and she accepts of course.

Take all of this with a grain of salt as I have never played this setup before and I'm trash at mechanic-talk, AND I want to ensure everyone's posted and weighed in before making decisions like these, but these are the pairings I've been thinking up in my head:

fferylit/Cabd
Spiffeh/LLD
Ydrasse/someone scummy
Bell/anyone

Assuming all of us were town (statistically unlikely), scum would have some pretty powerhouse pairs to decide on killing and it would ensure at least some people I work well with/trust would be in the game by the last two phases which is what I care about.

@fire
You asked why i was townreading spiffeh, was for these posts, they feel very townie to me
In particular, the approach to lld in the first one and his thoughts on how people should be pairing feel like they're coming from a town .mindset

[skitter30]

Can someone explain their fferylit scum read? I’m seeing it so much but still not getting it, what am I missing?

A lot of her posts have a sense of being ~constructed to me, like she's trying to make herself sound like her town self but something feels kinda subtly off when she's trying to do that. Her entrance in particular feels like she's trying to hit the points her town-self would, but misses somehow

Also a lot of her later posts are kinda opaque and like she's trying to make a big deal abt Having Reads and Sorting but i don't feel like there's actually substance behind a lot of her posts and lines of questioning


An example would be 915 - i feel like we already established that i thought she/fire could be svs. She's asking why her townflip would/might change my read on fire/alleviate the sr. To me this seems kind of obvious - if i'm reading them as svs, and one half flips t, i'd need ro re-evaluate, because the reason for scumreading tbe other wouldnt be there as much anymore, which is what i said. But the line of quesrioning to me seems kind of lacking substance because i feel like this shouod be an obvious thought process

Also in that convo, the throwaway lines abt 'what would a weak scumteam be doing here, etc' feel like saying things to look like she's having Complicated Thoughts abt the game. Despite asking a couple of times, I wasn't able to get her to flesh this thought out in any way that is meaningful, or elicidates why this would be important to her. This is the kind of thing where I feel like she's trying to have deep thoughts without the substance being there

[skitter30]

i probably want to pair with like spiffeh, rce, or maybe std

[skitter30]

eh i'm less confident on cakez-town

[skitter30]

Sure, sorry if someone asked you this already, but what do you think of Skitter and FireisRed?
They seem like the most readable people right now from the simple angle of posting density, but I'm bouncing off their posts when I try to read them.

this is kinda what i feel like abt ur posts

[skitter30]

maybe bell can be town

[skitter30]

ffery do you have any comment on 1006

while i don't really like the approach, hst is town for that question

[skitter30]

ffery do you have any comment on 1006

while i don't really like the approach, hst is town for that question

Spiffeh asked you the question you're answering in 1006. What HST question are you asking about?

As for your answer, I mostly ignored it for now because I don't want to polarize my read of you any more than it's polarized already. my thoughts are that you are trying to bury me when I'm already six feet under. Or you have no idea how to read me in this kind of situation and you have extended not one iota of wait and see.

Do you want a point by point? Because the answer just boils down to none of that is scummy because town-me wrote those posts.

I don't want to spend my time defending myself to the detriment of doing other things that I hope help town going forward.

ok fair enuf
i'm going to drop it and move on for now
(but i don't want your pairing to be alive in endgame)

~hst's question wrt the role pm

[skitter30]

ffery do you have any comment on 1006

while i don't really like the approach, hst is town for that question

Spiffeh asked you the question you're answering in 1006. What HST question are you asking about?

As for your answer, I mostly ignored it for now because I don't want to polarize my read of you any more than it's polarized already. my thoughts are that you are trying to bury me when I'm already six feet under. Or you have no idea how to read me in this kind of situation and you have extended not one iota of wait and see.

Do you want a point by point? Because the answer just boils down to none of that is scummy because town-me wrote those posts.

I don't want to spend my time defending myself to the detriment of doing other things that I hope help town going forward.

ok fair enuf
i'm going to drop it and move on for now
(but i don't want your pairing to be alive in endgame)

~hst's question wrt the role pm

His question to Bell? I'm impressed actually, though it has no effect on my HST read, itself. I assumed Bell was joking. Someone made a similar comment early on in the Holiday Dance game in 2021(?). My homework for reading this game was reading the pairing phases of a couple dance games, including that one. Bell was in that game, so I figured saying that here was a random homage to the other game.

Bell forgetting that is meh, but there's no way he'd forget it as scum. And HST poking at it is very HST. Not sure poking it is alignment indicative, but it certainly doesn't hurt my read.

It's more just i think it's a really, really weird question for scum to ask at that time

Bell's response i think is nai

[skitter30]

Do scum ever try to form svs pairs in this setup?

[skitter30]

Uh we're getting to the point where i'm like: who should ydra be pairing with ...?

[skitter30]

skitter, would you like this dance?

fireisredsir, would you like this dance?

Maybe! I'm inclined to yes but also thinking abt it!

[skitter30]

Uh we're getting to the point where i'm like: who should ydra be pairing with ...?

If i were scum i don't think i'd be killing her here unless all of the 'power pairs' had scum in it, which seems unlikely

@ydra who do you want to pair with?

I guess the two approaches i see are:
* pair her with the scummiest/most likely to be scum gent as then if they are indeed scum they'd have to kill one of their own to kill her (again not sure they'd be killing her here anyways)
* pair her with the person most likely to be town so that we don't need to kill off this pair

I'm probably inclined towards the latter given how much she's playing

Pedit in a vaccuum yeah but are they gonna be killing her here is my question

[skitter30]

Eh actually they might given that it would resolve like none of the main conflicts
Ig that's fine

[skitter30]

I’m honestly also fine with Ydrasse pairing with someone like Enchant because if scum wants to shoot the IC it forces them to remove Enchant who I am finding difficult to read

Ig my issue with this is that if enchant is scum i think scum just don't kill the pair and then leave it alive and if it later looks like we need to kill enchant it'll have to be with ydra

[skitter30]

Also if he's scum isnt he likely to just lolsuicide?

[skitter30]

Right
So i'm saying

If he's scum and paired with ydra
Don't we need ro vote out that pair to remove him if he's scum if they don't kill that pair?

Or am i missing something abt the setup

Pedit fair enuf

[skitter30]

Yeah
Either way don't love that pairing

[skitter30]

I'd rather like rh9 who i think might actually be town

Pedit don't hate that either

[skitter30]

The remaining options for ydra are:
Std
Rh9
Enchant
Rce
Lavarmanos

Rh9 or std are probably the best options for her imo

[skitter30]

ATM I'm totally ok with RCE not being paired.

It's just strange that although he's expressed preferences he hasn't acted on anything. He's on a path to an early out and it doesn't feel like he's trying to course correct.

eh kinda feel the same

[skitter30]

skitter, would you like this dance?

fireisredsir, would you like this dance?

i would probably accept this although i don't want to cut in front of skitter here

I wanna give ydra a little time (i.e. like till tomorrow morning) to have an opinion on who she wants to pair this, otherwise i'm taking this

[skitter30]

skitter, would you like this dance?

fireisredsir, would you like this dance?

i accept

[skitter30]

So spicy

[skitter30]

Aw Tenet was a fun one right guys?!

>.>
i do not have fond memories of that one

[skitter30]

Fire why did ur read change on me again?

[skitter30]

I have to say I’m pretty underwhelmed with my current solve of RCEnigma/SirCakez/Fireisredsir/someone else so I probably need to stop writing people off so early!

I don'f think it's going to be this easy, i'm p sure there's scum in the pairs already

Pedit i don't really remember the details anymore tbh but fair enuf

[skitter30]

I kinda vaguely think Spiffeh is town, no read on gypyx. Wouldnt bet the game on them

[skitter30]

Cabd why are u so confident on gypyx-town?

[skitter30]

*i would hate rolling scum in this pl

[skitter30]

I'm concerned abt both of them

[skitter30]

I'm not anywhere close to obv-town on gypyx rn

I don't think that post is so townie, or even so memorable tbh, i think you're giving it more townpoints than it deserves

[skitter30]

I'm not anywhere close to obv-town on gypyx rn

I don't think that post is so townie, or even so memorable tbh, i think you're giving it more townpoints than it deserves

I.e. you're saying she's townie for 'putting herself in the forefront in a conversation' abr you and ffery, who if town are gonna have their reads listened to forever etc etc etc - i don't think anyone remembers her as being that pivotal to that conversation, so it negates a lot of the townpoints ur awarding

[skitter30]

I kinda think that scum is in many of the pairs already

The only pairing i'm somewhat confident is tvt is hst/bell, although i will say i am maybe coming around on my fire sr

[skitter30]

I wouldnt be surprised if there's scum in spiffeh/gypyx/cabd

[skitter30]

I am actually v interested in ur reads

[skitter30]

I am actually v interested in ur reads

awful readlist incoming

town, probably:
[bell]

towny but im not sure i know how to read them:
[rh9, std, HST]

towny??:
[ffery]

not nearly enough data but slightly lean towny:
[skitter]

functionally null but little whiffs of towniness:
[cakez, enchant, lavar]

nullish maybe a little lingering scumlean:
[spiffeh]

not nearly enough data but slightly lean scummy:
[LLD, cabd, gypyx, rce]

kinda scummy:
[firebringer]

i don't think i would necessarily say that firebringer is my strongest scumread but that may be because im not sure that i have a solid scumread anywhere. previously it was spiffeh for a while but now im less sure on that

Spicy
Can u talk more abt the lld/cabd/gypyx/rce row?

[skitter30]

I kinda feel like fireisredsir is town

[skitter30]

I kinda like that pairing, yeah

[skitter30]

I kinda feel like spiffeh might be scum

[skitter30]

Kinda bummed that Cabd keeps touting this hero-solve before intermission but has yet to really weigh in on who should be left behind this phase when I'd think that would something he'd want some input in and would lay a good foundation for said hero-solve?

Unless I missed a post from him or something

Do u think cabd should be townreading you and gypyx so strongly?

[skitter30]

For me the spiffeh thing has less to do with how i think he'd behave as scum, and more to do with some of his recent posting, namely:

- kinda don't understand his gypyx trajectory, or how he became that confident in town-her
- cabd declaring them a high confidence tvt pair made me go ... huh?
- ffery townread almost feels white-knight-y
-

[skitter30]

what if i danced with enchant

I feel like not the best idea b/c i think it's going to be hard to resolve the slot later if u aren't killed

[skitter30]

Despite my paranoia reads list (which you don't get to see atm), I like some recent Skitter posts.

I'm curious, can you share more abt this?

[skitter30]

Kinda meh but i feel like:
* it's a very popular sr
* if he were actually scum he'd exhibit more urgency in trying to get into a pairing (this goes for all of the unpaired gents, honestly)

Not really convinced he's scum rn

[skitter30]

Kinda bummed that Cabd keeps touting this hero-solve before intermission but has yet to really weigh in on who should be left behind this phase when I'd think that would something he'd want some input in and would lay a good foundation for said hero-solve?

Unless I missed a post from him or something

Do u think cabd should be townreading you and gypyx so strongly?

Nope, not to the level of calling us both locktown and calling for us to last until endgame so early.

However, I can see town!Cabd strongly townreading both myself and Gypyx INITIALLY based on what we have presented to the thread so far. Gypyx specifically is like night and day from her scum game in Tenet, where scum buddies Cabd and LLD and sometimes the rest of us had to coach her through many of her posts to avoid getting her eliminated and clearing half of the game (lol Tenet game mechanics).

But that was over two years ago and I think Cabd should be able to recognize that people can improve meta changes.

Ok so:
* given that cabd is townreading her so strongly, what does that say to you abt his alignment
* why are *you* townreading her ao strongly

[skitter30]

Kinda meh but i feel like:
* it's a very popular sr
* if he were actually scum he'd exhibit more urgency in trying to get into a pairing (this goes for all of the unpaired gents, honestly)

Not really convinced he's scum rn

I dub this a hipster read.

This is one of the reasons why i think scum is already paired, basically
Nobody feels worried abt not getting in

[skitter30]

I very much disagree with that, there'll usually be some sort of indication in thread as well imo

[skitter30]

Can't say for sure but wouldnt be surprised

This sort of read will also be more accurate in ~three days from now when there's more pressure to pair up before deadline

[skitter30]

Ikr

[skitter30]

Nulltown

[skitter30]

Kinda bummed that Cabd keeps touting this hero-solve before intermission but has yet to really weigh in on who should be left behind this phase when I'd think that would something he'd want some input in and would lay a good foundation for said hero-solve?

Unless I missed a post from him or something

Do u think cabd should be townreading you and gypyx so strongly?

Nope, not to the level of calling us both locktown and calling for us to last until endgame so early.

However, I can see town!Cabd strongly townreading both myself and Gypyx INITIALLY based on what we have presented to the thread so far. Gypyx specifically is like night and day from her scum game in Tenet, where scum buddies Cabd and LLD and sometimes the rest of us had to coach her through many of her posts to avoid getting her eliminated and clearing half of the game (lol Tenet game mechanics).

But that was over two years ago and I think Cabd should be able to recognize that people can improve meta changes.

Ok so:
* given that cabd is townreading her so strongly, what does that say to you abt his alignment
* why are *you* townreading her ao strongly

Cabd is always overdramatic and I feel his declaration that our pair should be locktown for the rest of the game is NAI.

I also think you are overestimating how strongly I'm townreading Gypyx. I have indeed provided my reasons for town reading her overall, but the fact that she's been AWOL ever since I stated my intention to dance with her is not lost on me. That's what our neighborhood is for.

Fair enuf

[skitter30]

Ffery how are u reading spiffeh?

[skitter30]

Kinda meh but i feel like:
* it's a very popular sr
* if he were actually scum he'd exhibit more urgency in trying to get into a pairing (this goes for all of the unpaired gents, honestly)

Not really convinced he's scum rn

I dub this a hipster read.

This is one of the reasons why i think scum is already paired, basically
Nobody feels worried abt not getting in

To some extent that depends on the distribution of scum between genders. Every Lady scum means another town Gent. Of the early pairers, one or two scum gents max is where I'm currently at.

Dunno abt the genders of the scum, i don't know how mucu it matters to my point honestly

Pedit somehow i know ur main, idk why I know that. Doesnt help me read u at all because i think i only have incidental games with your main, if any, and if there were they were a long time ago

[skitter30]

Do u think i can read you / identify scum-you?

[skitter30]

Kinda meh but i feel like:
* it's a very popular sr
* if he were actually scum he'd exhibit more urgency in trying to get into a pairing (this goes for all of the unpaired gents, honestly)

Not really convinced he's scum rn

I dub this a hipster read.

This is one of the reasons why i think scum is already paired, basically
Nobody feels worried abt not getting in

To some extent that depends on the distribution of scum between genders. Every Lady scum means another town Gent. Of the early pairers, one or two scum gents max is where I'm currently at.

Dunno abt the genders of the scum, i don't know how mucu it matters to my point honestly

Pedit somehow i know ur main, idk why I know that. Doesnt help me read u at all because i think i only have incidental games with your main, if any, and if there were they were a long time ago

I think it's unlikely that any ladies wind up unpaired. Possible, but unlikely. Unpaired ladies probably aren't sweating much.

Ah i see the confusion - i'm only applying this read to the unpaired gents, like u say, ladies are unlikely to wind up unpaired

[skitter30]

Do u think i can read you / identify scum-you?

If you're town, apparently not. As well as this game, you read bork instead of me in the game I won't mention by name again.

I've basically expunged that from my memory, and hadnt thought abt it in like years lol till like two nights ago

(I did get ur slot right tho iirc!)

My pov rn is basically that ur scum but can't do anything abt it at this stage so don't really feel the need to belabor the point till we get to dancing

[skitter30]

Because it's annoying, and feels like scum (LavarManos) are perpetuating the idea to make me look bad.

How are u reading me now?

[skitter30]

No, but it does make me think that if she's mafia, her support staff is also the kind that went silent recently, which is pretty much exactly one of {LLD, STD}.

The hurry up and pair then peace out thing seems a little too on the nose to be a scum response to gaining a pairing, but I don't know how many other people subscribe to my state decay theory of the game.

Honestly i can see it,kinda matches with my theory that all the scumz are paired already

[skitter30]

I don't know how many other people subscribe to my state decay theory of the game.

Nobody wanted to hear about this but heck I don't care, you get to read it anyways.

In a dance setup, the start is chaos and the end is arranged pairs.

The real way to catch people is to see who is working on getting to arrangements (without being desperate) and who is trying to slow that natural process down.

In a game with this many "known strong" players, knocking people known to be emotionally easy to "get" is the easiest way to achieve that sort of decay from the norm. And it's a major factor in my ffery town read. Not to say that all of, or even the majority of, the people scum reading her aggressively are scum in and of themselves, but just one or two of them can cause a pile-on like we're seeing now.

I don't recall ever seeing mafia at risk of being unpaired QUITE so detached as these gentlemen, which also points towards "we're stuck leaving out a townie" as a possibility here?

So i very much agree with the bolded but i'm having a hard time following the jump to where you start talking abt the implications for ffery's alignment

[skitter30]

No, but it does make me think that if she's mafia, her support staff is also the kind that went silent recently, which is pretty much exactly one of {LLD, STD}.

The hurry up and pair then peace out thing seems a little too on the nose to be a scum response to gaining a pairing, but I don't know how many other people subscribe to my state decay theory of the game.

Honestly i can see it,kinda matches with my theory that all the scumz are paired already

Am I invisible?

What?
Talking abt gypyx here, this post from me didn't have anything to do with you

[skitter30]

My bad then - i'm phone posting so it's easiest to just quote the whole post. Was referring to the scumread on gypyx and how it aligned with my theory on how the scumz are paired already

Less to do with the coaching or commenting on your activity levels, i think you've been fairly active

Pedit @std

[skitter30]

I don't know how many other people subscribe to my state decay theory of the game.

Nobody wanted to hear about this but heck I don't care, you get to read it anyways.

In a dance setup, the start is chaos and the end is arranged pairs.

The real way to catch people is to see who is working on getting to arrangements (without being desperate) and who is trying to slow that natural process down.

In a game with this many "known strong" players, knocking people known to be emotionally easy to "get" is the easiest way to achieve that sort of decay from the norm. And it's a major factor in my ffery town read. Not to say that all of, or even the majority of, the people scum reading her aggressively are scum in and of themselves, but just one or two of them can cause a pile-on like we're seeing now.

I don't recall ever seeing mafia at risk of being unpaired QUITE so detached as these gentlemen, which also points towards "we're stuck leaving out a townie" as a possibility here?

So i very much agree with the bolded but i'm having a hard time following the jump to where you start talking abt the implications for ffery's alignment

Ffery is exactly the kind of player whose town game is so self-confident of being able to bleed town that when it fails to occur and she's under the water like this, it's like a big hornet's nest of prickly snark and derailing.

It's sort of an unpatched flaw in that when she's mafia and being suspected, the barbs aren't nearly as sharp.

Like you're saying: focusing on who's trying to get paird/is worried abt being unpaired is a good eay to find mafia

But town-ffery being tilted can cause enuf ~chaos overall to detract from that and mask these leads, so scum is motivates to continue pushing her

Is that what ur saying?

[skitter30]

Hmmm i'll need to sit on that theory and process it a bit, not sure how it aligns with how i'm viewing the game

[skitter30]

I know i'm not scum doing that tho, and i'm one of the main proponents of scum-ffery

The other loud people pushing that that come to mind are cakez, fire (in the beginning) and idk if they would approach the game with the pov of: i need to tilt town-ffery

Like ig who do you think is scum who is doing this?

Like sure i can see you doing this, but i don't think you're pushing ffery as scum particularly loudly

@cabd

[skitter30]

I know i'm not scum doing that tho, and i'm one of the main proponents of scum-ffery

The other loud people pushing that that come to mind are cakez, fire (in the beginning) and idk if they would approach the game with the pov of: i need to tilt town-ffery

Like ig who do you think is scum who is doing this?

Like sure i can see you doing this, but i don't think you're pushing ffery as scum particularly loudly

@cabd

Wow, my posts really do bounce off of you.

Sorry, they really do for some reason >.>
I literally can't think of most of ur reads offhand

[skitter30]

I know i'm not scum doing that tho, and i'm one of the main proponents of scum-ffery

The other loud people pushing that that come to mind are cakez, fire (in the beginning) and idk if they would approach the game with the pov of: i need to tilt town-ffery

Like ig who do you think is scum who is doing this?

Like sure i can see you doing this, but i don't think you're pushing ffery as scum particularly loudly

@cabd

The tilt was already rolling when you were able to start posting. I feel like you took advantage of this.

Firebringer knocked me sideways to start with. And unless he's scum WITH someone who knows how to tilt me, I feel like his push has been authentic.

So I'm looking at players who have taken advantage more closely. And your approach is the one that bothers me most. Cakez, too, but he really hasn't been much of a presence in my mindscape, anyway.

So like i know this is wrong, but from your pov fair enuf.

Ok so if i'm scum i'm trying to create chaos around your slot to make it hard for everyone else to sort the game?

(Although i will say i don't think i would come into a game with the purpose of trying to tilt someone in particular, feels a little ~not great to me in a general sense. Capitalizing on the swirl of chaos around someone fair game tho)

[skitter30]

my scumteam looks something like one of Cabd/Ffery (I don't care to sort which it is but their interactions are poodo) Enchant, Rh9 and (someone who is somewhat townread and coasting to the end) because there is a lack of urgency in this thread for fighting over reads that scum would need to have to win this game. FireRed? HST? STD? Somewhere in there.

Leave RH9 and Enchant out as well as one Lady (FireRed), then kill Ffery/Cabd and see where we stand, is my current solve. I don't wanna go too deep into it, but if I can kill 5 players and see where we stand after that I'd be very confident in winning from there I think.

Uhhhhhh
I'm dubious

[skitter30]

You're still my preferred lim but i'm fine giving you a few days to get your solves - if i'm wrong i'd much rather have a full-fledged readslist than not

I won't rush it through for the sake of rushing it through
(But like the pass doesn't last till endgame, if we get to a point where there's only a few pairs left and i still think you're scum i'll probably start calling for you to leave/be limmed a lot more vocally, regardless of the state of your reads)

But i don't really have any intention of just pushing through your lim to the point where yoi can't give reads

[skitter30]

I agree that cabd/ffery is not tvt

I really don't like the idea of limming through enchant/rh9 and forcing a lady to go unpaired (esp. Fire???) - my confidence level that we'll hit even one scum in these is not high and feels like we'd just be chaining a lot of 'town but hard to read' people here

[skitter30]

I agree that cabd/ffery is not tvt

I really don't like the idea of limming through enchant/rh9 and forcing a lady to go unpaired (esp. Fire???) - my confidence level that we'll hit even one scum in these is not high and feels like we'd just be chaining a lot of 'town but hard to read' people here

I feel VERY confident that we find 1 scum in Enchant/Rh9/FireRed. But if you want to swap to another of the ??? Ladies who aren't paired I'll do anywhich one you want, because I'm more confident in Enchant/Rh9 than I am about any of the ladies tbh? I do think FireRed is my most suspicious of the ones I listed, though.

I guess i'm really just not that confident we'll find scum in enchant/rh9
Like is it impossible? No
But also like do i have high enuf confidence that i want to make a gameplan on this? Also no

(I will say that the first thought that popped into my head upon reading this is that you might be scum functionally chaining mislims on easy / non-controversial targets ....)

[skitter30]

I don't like your pick of people to flip, it goes counter ro my view of the game and i'm not confident we should just 'kill people and let'a see where we are' or that this is a game plan that will lead to success

Pedit interesting thought, elaborate?

[skitter30]

I don't really follow how i'm doing thr same thing as you, at all

You're also stating a much higher confidence on scum in enchant/rh9 than i am (which is why i don't especially think we should be limming through them)

I'm finishing up my workday but happy to discuss more in a few hours

[skitter30]

I don't like your pick of people to flip, it goes counter ro my view of the game and i'm not confident we should just 'kill people and let'a see where we are' or that this is a game plan that will lead to success

Pedit interesting thought, elaborate?

How would you like us to proceed? A no elimination?

No but 'there's probably scum in one of rh9/enchant and some unpaired lady so let's just do all of them' isnt the way we should go either

[skitter30]

I don't really follow how i'm doing thr same thing as you, at all

You're also stating a much higher confidence on scum in enchant/rh9 than i am (which is why i don't especially think we should be limming through them)

I'm finishing up my workday but happy to discuss more in a few hours

I'm saying you're using words that don't describe my play, and if anything those words are more indicative of how you are playing (though not really accurate either)

I respect that you don't have as high scumreads on those slots, so let me ask you point blank, beyond Ffery/Cabd, who ARE you scumreading at this point Skitter?

Firebringer
Rce
Spiffeh
Maybe gypyx
Maybe lavar

Like id you wanted to go thru rce/lavar probably woulent object as much

[skitter30]

I don't really follow how i'm doing thr same thing as you, at all

You're also stating a much higher confidence on scum in enchant/rh9 than i am (which is why i don't especially think we should be limming through them)

I'm finishing up my workday but happy to discuss more in a few hours

I'm saying you're using words that don't describe my play, and if anything those words are more indicative of how you are playing (though not really accurate either)

I respect that you don't have as high scumreads on those slots, so let me ask you point blank, beyond Ffery/Cabd, who ARE you scumreading at this point Skitter?

Firebringer
Rce
Spiffeh
Maybe gypyx
Maybe lavar

Like id you wanted to go thru rce/lavar probably woulent object as much

Firebringer is going to be handled, he and I are leaving mid second dance so I can have solving ability.

Sell me on RCE and Spiffeh, please

I will in a few hours, gotta bounce for a bit now

[skitter30]

like you're both hedging on enchant and rh9 like "oh they COULD flip scum but i'm not sure" and then accusing me of possibly being scum chaining miselims.

when in reality the way to setup for what you're describing is to slot a bunch of slots into the "could flip scum but i'm not sold on it yet" slot, go after your "TOP SCUM READS" and then weed your way down to sorting the people who "might be scum if i'm wrong here" "oh no i was wrong here, it has to be this slot i thought was scummy the whole time i just got it wrong"

like, it's weird that you're doing what you're accusing me of doing, in a way.

let me just kind of reiterate/rephrase my point because i'm not sure i got it across:
* i agree with cabd/ffery having scum, probably ffery
* i don't know if enchant/rh9 are town or scum, my guess is town but like i'm not confident
* at the same time, i don't think that just killing them and seeing where we're at is the right move either, because i think that there's a decent enuf chance that they're town
* just being like: let's kill all these people and reassess! makes me feel a little wary because i don't really scumread those people and i think the odds of there being like max scum in those 5 people is somewhat high, and that leaves us at 3:9 and i'm less confident that we'll get it right at that point - i think the scum is in the people that have already paired already, and other than cabd/ffery i'm not sure how much this, like, helps us find those scum
* if all of rh9/enchant/fireisred is town this makes me feel doubtful of your alignment

[skitter30]

I don't like your pick of people to flip, it goes counter ro my view of the game and i'm not confident we should just 'kill people and let'a see where we are' or that this is a game plan that will lead to success

Pedit interesting thought, elaborate?

i don't think she as scum would gain that much for insisting that there's scum in there and we have to lim them. especially when people bop her so often, she's just kind of burning cred for not much reason

if she were trying to save a scum lavar/rce, again i don't think that's a super likely track because her saying this is pretty unlikely to do that much to influence the people who actually have a choice in who lives and dies (me, cakez, ydra)

honestly, fair point

Skitter’s been kind of out of step with foundational knowledge in game. I’m not sure what, if anything, to make of it.

Randomly accusing people of bussing is a time honored tradition.

could be, i don't really feel like i ~understand how we're supposed to be approaching the game like mechanically so like very fair

[skitter30]

I think you’re focusing too much on their exact wording and not enough with the sentiment, you don’t actually have to take what they’re saying literally,

You can dismantle it and say that LLD finds this group of people scummy and we should kill here first.

A lot of players (ad populim I know),
Would say that grouping and eliminating for a list is scummy and a scum tell,
But like, I dislike that scum tell and think it’s silly.

if this is to me - honestly it's less abt the fact that she's grouping and eliminating a list, and more that i don't think the names on the list are particularly likely to be scum

[skitter30]

I don't really follow how i'm doing thr same thing as you, at all

You're also stating a much higher confidence on scum in enchant/rh9 than i am (which is why i don't especially think we should be limming through them)

I'm finishing up my workday but happy to discuss more in a few hours

I'm saying you're using words that don't describe my play, and if anything those words are more indicative of how you are playing (though not really accurate either)

I respect that you don't have as high scumreads on those slots, so let me ask you point blank, beyond Ffery/Cabd, who ARE you scumreading at this point Skitter?

Firebringer
Rce
Spiffeh
Maybe gypyx
Maybe lavar

Like id you wanted to go thru rce/lavar probably woulent object as much

Firebringer is going to be handled, he and I are leaving mid second dance so I can have solving ability.

Sell me on RCE and Spiffeh, please

fire - yes, i'm aware, i'm not especially pushing him rn (but just like cabd/ffery i'd want you two to actually, like, leave)


spiffeh - see 1443
rce - i don't feel like he's solving at all, just kinda of being here and being present (and before someone says: why am i not applying this to enchant or rh9 - i'm not sure i expect more solving than we're getting from either of them), and a lot of his thoughts are rather surface-level. i would expect him to have more of a sense of urgency wrt pairing if he were scum tho

[skitter30]

Yes i think we should be wrapping up the pairings

[skitter30]

O.o

[skitter30]

I just iso'd lavar, and i feel like his content is better than i remember it being

[skitter30]

There's more depth of thought and nuanced thinking than i remember there being; office day so i'll be around (and can quote examples) later

[skitter30]

Actually the game is point you to for my town game with wim is probably Control.

Can you share a towngamd without wim?

[skitter30]

If it helps ur scumread strengthen at all, I have suicided in dance games as scum before

For the love of god, why, lol.

(Didn't we have a disagreement abt whether or not fire would suicide as scum, and you townreading him b/c what scum would do that?)

[skitter30]

That was like, several years ago i think, right?

[skitter30]

I mean 100% but that doesnt change my opinion that he could/would suicide as scum and therefore we shouldnt give him townpoints for stating that he is willing to

Pedit @bell

[skitter30]

Ok i'm not really sure how i feel abt that justification ....

We're down to fire
And of lavar/enchant i think

Honestly don't havs super high confidence that any of these are scum
Probably slightly prefer enchant to be out but yeah

[skitter30]

*and one of

[skitter30]

i'm not convinced that's a slip
in other news i'm low-key scumreading cabd

[skitter30]

Eh I’m still good with leaving Lavar behind, although I agree that that wasn’t a scum slip.

Cabd pointing it out and dipping with no further commentary makes me feel a little icky though?

Yeah i think that was Not Great from cabd

[skitter30]

I'd rank
Lavar
Enchant
Rce

In terms of most likely to be town to scum but i'm not especially confident that any are scum

[skitter30]

i'm not convinced that's a slip
in other news i'm low-key scumreading cabd

so is fferryllt town for u now

No, i don't think they're svs, i'm just not confient in which one the scum is

I still think probably ffery but cabd is making me question that

[skitter30]

Skitter can you go over your rh9 read? Idk if you already have or not.

Sorry i missed this

I feel like he's looking into things / calling out things he thinks are important to solving, and is trying to be helpful towards the broader solving/pairing effort

[skitter30]

yeah i meant people caring in the sense that they have information that one of the flips would be a different color than the others

i agree people have expressed opinions but none of those really give me that vibe

This is kinda why i think everyone involved is town
I don't think this decision, like, matters, at the end of the day, or that anyone is pushing for it one way or the other. I don't think scum care

[skitter30]

Fire i think you're town, in your shoes i would probably just make the decisuon on who you'd rather be in a hood with and/or who you think is most likely town

[skitter30]

I don't think this decision matters as much if he's scum unless it's with, like, both of them

I think 2084 is approaching this from a townie mindset, with a lot of sincere worrying abt getting this right. It doesnt seem like he's posturing or making it up for townpoints

[skitter30]

Ok but i don't think the difference between last night and this morning is such an increased level of apathy that it's worth dragging out just to drag it out as scum

I find it more believable that he's town trying to make the right choice than scum trying to induce apathy

Pedit @fire there's very little pressure from the thread at large for you to pick one or the other. If one is scum, i think you'd be having more ~engagment on this, and there would be more campaigning for one or the other. And if they're both scum i still think the othwr scum would care which it is unless the whole scumteam is people with low thread impact

Like from my pov either all the people involved are town, or both enchant/lavar are scum and the rest of the team doesn't care to, or can't, do anything abt where the last few pairs were trending

All of fire/enchant/lavar being scum seems improbable to me

[skitter30]

I'm so beyond confident that we're on a good path here

/s if that wasn't clear

I'll be around later, gl fire

[skitter30]

Ok but i don't think the difference between last night and this morning is such an increased level of apathy that it's worth dragging out just to drag it out as scum

I find it more believable that he's town trying to make the right choice than scum trying to induce apathy

Pedit @fire there's very little pressure from the thread at large for you to pick one or the other. If one is scum, i think you'd be having more ~engagment on this, and there would be more campaigning for one or the other. And if they're both scum i still think the othwr scum would care which it is unless the whole scumteam is people with low thread impact

Like from my pov either all the people involved are town, or both enchant/lavar are scum and the rest of the team doesn't care to, or can't, do anything abt where the last few pairs were trending

All of fire/enchant/lavar being scum seems improbable to me

if fireisred is town, can we burn this?

Elaborate please

[skitter30]

This is a mess and i'm annoyed abt the present state of this game

[skitter30]

I think scum has to be in someone cabd thinks can/will carry this, so either someone like lld or someone who is ridiculously townread

Pedit yeah so did i

[skitter30]

VOTE: lld/fire

I will be around marginally today/tomorrow, will actually be around tomorrow night

[skitter30]

I think scum has to be in someone cabd thinks can/will carry this, so either someone like lld or someone who is ridiculously townread

Pedit yeah so did i

Thats ur pair

Which way

[skitter30]

This is a mess and i'm annoyed abt the present state of this game

I’m not. Enchant really should not have killed themselves there, they’re going for soft advantages in exchange for hard ones.
Then again, I’m bad scum and Cabd is not, so.

I'm kinda assuminv that was planned by the team overall, no?

Likw i don't think that was lol-leaving from enchant

[skitter30]

VOTE: lld/fire

I will be around marginally today/tomorrow, will actually be around tomorrow night

This is pointless and u know it. Me and LLD aren't going to be around for endgame.

Because you're going to leave? If you give a firm deadline of like: we will leave by X pair i don't have to vote you now, otherwise i will

[skitter30]

I think scum has to be in someone cabd thinks can/will carry this, so either someone like lld or someone who is ridiculously townread

Pedit yeah so did i

Thats ur pair

Which way

well right now i think STD paired with u because thinks ur less likely to get scrutiny and im assuming ur town even though ur defense of FIR did look informed to me.

You think std is the scum in my pair ... ok interesting, i was assuming you thought i was. I think i'm kinda likely to get scrutiny so this is a take

And wrt fire: i mean i can see that argument but i think i was basically right: scum literally didnt care, either enchant would be out, or he would leave. It didn't matter what fire did

[skitter30]

I think from like mid-pairing stage that was a plan

Cabd/ffery would leave
Enchant if possible would take out another pair to force night
Where the ic/town pair would die

Putting us in second dance without the ic's thoughts
And i'm assuming someone who can carry is scum
I am looking at like fire/lld and bizarrwly hst b/c idk who else cabd thinks carries

Sadly bell is town

[skitter30]

*that was scum's plan

Like to me both leaving was p obviously coordinated, idk how else to interpret how this game has gone

[skitter30]

VOTE: lld/fire

I will be around marginally today/tomorrow, will actually be around tomorrow night

This is pointless and u know it. Me and LLD aren't going to be around for endgame.

Because you're going to leave? If you give a firm deadline of like: we will leave by X pair i don't have to vote you now, otherwise i will

If game isn't over and theres 4 pairs alive, i am leaving

Fine
But i am holding you to it

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

Cabd's read on spiffeh/gypyx is bizarre and i can't tell if it's meant to be clearing, or to make them look associated with him, or what

[skitter30]

does anyone disagree with me that Bell/HST is town pair

Bell is town idk abt hst
Idk if i bet the game on it

[skitter30]

It's entirely about how i'm suspicious of you now

[skitter30]

Fire/lld - actually kind of think fire is town based on this phase, but lld needs to die by endgame

Bell/hst - bell is town, idk abt hst

Spiffeh/gypyx - no idea

Rce/cakez - gun to head town but i'm not betting the game on it

Std - i guess town

At least one of the scum is someone cabd thinks can carry, either because of skill, or because they're basically universally townread, and i don't think that's a lot of names on this list

I think the last scum is very heavily dependant on who that first scum is

[skitter30]

Ok i gotta bounce
Lld i am very happy to discuss tomorrow night, won't be around till then

Pedit my list is you, hst and like maybe (?) bell or fire (maybe me from your pov)

I don't think he entrusts the game to anyone else
But the same thought process is encouraging!

[skitter30]

Ok i gotta bounce
Lld i am very happy to discuss tomorrow night, won't be around till then

Pedit my list is you, hst and like maybe (?) bell or fire (maybe me from your pov)

I don't think he entrusts the game to anyone else
But the same thought process is encouraging!

Nah Cabd wouldn't trust the game to me or Fire given the outcome kf things.

He would trust STD, You, Gypyx, Spiffeh, Cakez, HST.

Those are the people he would trust.

Unless you are looking for a player who has experience to guide a super townie to the end. Then he could trust me. He could trust you. He could trust Fire. He could trust Bell.

But if you are looking for Cabd's wincon it's in that list above.

Ok so the way i'm viewing this is:
* i kinda feel like you're good enuf to talk your way out of the doomed pairing. The fact that you're accpeting it alleviates my thoughts abf you, like, a lot actually (but again if you don't walk the walk when it's time the good vibes go right out the window)
* i don't know cabd as well as you, i'm kinda basing this on who i woukd imagine entrusting the game to in his shoes. I would not entrust the game to a combo of cakez/gypyx (no offense) after that stunt, for example, so that doesnt make sense to me as a scumteam. To me the list is who i listed and is a lot smaller. Like you think it's all comibations of that as being possible? Or like he picked one of those people as the 'carrier'

But yeah agreed it seems obvious to me that this is a con
The hw i need to do is try to identify when the ~complacency set in vis a vis when the pairinga happened -> i think thay will give some insight to when/how the plan formed

[skitter30]

i think all this talk of cabd "entrusting" the game to someone is pretty weird when in reality it's not like he sacrificed an advantageous position to do what he did, like most people viewed his pair as having 1 scum anyways

enchant meanwhile was maybe somewhat deeper but also not the kind of player who's gonna *do* a lot of stuff

You are WILD if you think this hasn't been Cabd's plan since fucking page 10 when he was getting mostly townreads and Ffery was being crucified.

Cabd would have avoided a Ffery pairing by calling her Scum and buried her in the fucking dirt if he wantes to try and play for long game. This was a Con.

i mean, wild is maybe a bit of an exagerration but i don't see how this necessarily indicates he was instaleaving? like, as some people said (and i'm mostly reffering to other people's arguments here) he was very much expected to pair up with ffery, and even if he could go on someone else, i might be misundersteanding, but why not take the best out of both worlds and badmouth ffery into being left alone (so that he may try to pair up with someone who would be more interesting to force to leave) / pairing with a scum who is fine dying and executing his double leaving maneuver with him

The fact rhat he had no content for like 5 irl days beyond gems like 'spiffeh and gypyx are the towniest pair in the game' and 'lavar manos scumslipped' also make me think this was planned ...

[skitter30]

Right and i'm saying i'm probably willing to accept that tradeoff but will kick up a fuss if you miss and don't die, basically

Like i know you're competant enuf to do that, the pass is if you continue to find scum until the game is over, otherwise you're my number 1 suspect

@lld

[skitter30]

Yeah i'm not gonna blind sheep
(And like if you go after my pairing first was the obvious exclusion)

If i feel like you're obviously wrong (like the conclusion is someone i very strongly townread) i'll also object

But i'm fine with *one* chance basically before i go all in on you

Pedit honestly i think your conclusion waa cabd/ffery
And rh9/enchant/fire all dying iirc

Which isnt awful

[skitter30]

Rce/cakez - gun to head town but i'm not betting the game on it

Std - i guess town

Can you go into more detail on each of these?

So i am viewing the game in the - who would cabd want the remaining scum to be lens and that's coloring a lot of my thought process

I think there can be like max one scum in those three names b/c i don't think he leaves the game with 2/3 of those people

1683 and the ensuing argument with std feel very unaligned, particularly on the std side (which is better than feeling unaligned from cabd)

Rce really didn't seem to care abt who he was going to pair with, which doesn't vibe with scum knowing what cabd/enchant were going to do

Cakez honestly i'm not sure, it's more vibes and i need to review this read

[skitter30]

skitter, what's your read on LLD?
Like, none of this "idk she's too good of a player so needs to die :^)"

Idk but if i had to pick, scum
Functionally doesn't matter because she's not making endgame

[skitter30]

Why

[skitter30]

She's basically said she would suicide as soon as shs gets a wrong pairing, and so has fire

So functionally ... doesn't matter

[skitter30]

I'm fine picking that fight
And i will pick it if she's wrong

Pedit right so not suiciding would be a bad indicator here

Pedit2 it's a large reason why i'm townreading you tbh, your stance is wild if that was the plan

[skitter30]

Lld killing a tvt pairing
And then suicidng as scum

Leaving a 4th scum

I guess i can actually see it if the 4th scum is ridiculously well set up but like idk who that would be and it's very dependant on the 4th scum

[skitter30]

It's not even abt embarrassing yourself
It's abt

How likely is scum-you to make an entire argument abt how scum would never suicide, knowing your partners are planning to suicide

I don't think very likely
(Although as i write rhat out i realize this read is continent on the plan existing already and idk if it did that early)

[skitter30]

The fact that I, as a player, pushed EXTENSIVELY and LOUDLY for Enchant to be LEFT OUT PRE-DANCE.

Would make CABD'S PLAN UNDOABLE. THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TWO SCUM TO LEAVE TO END THE DANCE AND KILL YDRA.

I would have had to have been playing ANTI MY ALIGNMENT'S WINCON.

Fwiw i agree

Can bell be scum here?

[skitter30]

Sorry skitter :(

Indeed
Can i have a little more time to like ~solve first please?

Fwiw he did tell me overnight he was likely leaving at some point

[skitter30]

Hi std how did neighborhood chat go?

Fine

I threatened to leave

Didn't love skitters reaction

Tempted to sheep fferys read on skitter

We will see

spicy that skitter didn’t mention this

He wants to leave and i said i wanted to solve first and then was probably ok with it, that was how we left it i think

[skitter30]

I’m unhappy that Skitter didn’t bring up the STD pressure in their neighborhood.

Likewise I would appreciate if STD would explain what they do not like about Skitter.

Firebringer, did you try to do any solving with LLD or was it just LLD throwing a frisbee and you fetching the whole time.

I mean, ok? Why does it matter?

[skitter30]

i still want to hear from skitter her thoughts on the threat from STD to leave

It just is, either he will or he won't
I don't think he should and i don't want him to but the fact that he's threatening also makes me lean towards town, and if it happens so be it

I want to try to get a solve first is basically what i told him

[skitter30]

The main reason I'm worried about skitter is she was kind of nonchalantly "I'd rather you didn't" more than once which kind of seems like it could be scum trying to be like "oh no don't but i don't want to appear like I'm fighting to survive"

I can't say it's a slam dunk but coupled with fferys suspicion I'm feeling like that's a good direction I want to go

I think my scum reads are somewhere in {skitter, cakez, fb}

I mean like ... if you do you do and i can't control that. I much rather if you didn't tho, an want ro try to solve first
So if you could give me like a couple irl days would appreciate it

Will also point out that we know ffery's solve of dcabd/lld/cakez/me was wrong

[skitter30]

Spiffeh Bell Firebringer SirCakez

So you see my dilemma

I feel like even Cakez I’m not all that confident about tbh but RCE is the bigger problem in that pairing imo

I mentioned this in the neighborhood but I am not a huge fan of skitter’s stated reason for town reading STD, especially at this point in the game where it’s time to be critical as fuck of your partner

I also just disagree with her reasoning? I don’t find Cabd mentioning STD as someone who could coach Gypyx all that alignment indicative and don’t understand why she thinks they are unaligned because of that

I do have to go back and reread the full exchange which I haven’t done yet, but I am interested in skitter’s promised return tonight so maybe we can hash that out (if I’m around and sober…)

It isnt because he mentioned him, it's because of the ensuing exchange which you havent read yet

Kinda sporadic tonight still will be aroubd more tomorrow

[skitter30]

Can everyone provide a list (top 4) strongest town reads. I want to use that list to try and focus down on who I want everyone to work together to try and sort.

You
Fire
Rce
Idk the fourth, probably spiffeh

Unfortunately that's a town in each pair and not helpful

[skitter30]

Sorry this weekend has been waaaaay busier than normal, i'm gonna try to iso cakez tonight but otherwise will be here tom

[skitter30]

Yes I want to mega yeet ffery very much still if that wasn't obvious lol

So i'm now kinda questioning if scum were trying to push ffery like cabd was saying

[skitter30]

I kinda like that cakez wanted to leave Enchant out

Weirdly i think rce/cakez might be my town pair rn

[skitter30]

I understand that your reads list is probably rightfully not really considering this, but how do you reconcile having Cabd and FB so low when they've both vocally and confidently claimed they will be leaving the dance at some point before endgame? This is something I'd really only expect from town as scum can easily be held accountable for statements like these. Is this something that's reflected in your read on them, or does this not really matter to you?

Not to step in for fire but.

I think you’re ignoring that slots like Cabd,FB,LLD, don’t have a high probability end game route as either alignment. If we can agree on that, an extra phase is a lot more valuable to any of those slots as scum than as town.

Just as a general hypothetical, if you were scum that knew you were exiting what would your play be?

If I were scum I would never actually exit the dance. I may talk a big game about it to look town, but I wouldn't ever actually leave because a one for one trade as scum (assuming I'm not in a dual-scum pair in your hypothetical) is never worth it from what I can tell.

So posts like these i think are kind of unlikely to come from scum

[skitter30]

HST's reaction to the "scum slip" is incredibly town, btw

Out of curiousity do you still think this?

[skitter30]

So i kinda think hst is scum here
I'm having a hard time parsing where remaining scum is and I feel like someone i'm townreading i shouldn't be

[skitter30]

Btw, the only reason I'm not drowning this game in an avalanche of posts is because I'm universally town read.
I read half the game again instead and am mulling over stuff, I got yelled at for quote walling By penguin 2 games ago, so I'm trying not to, but it's hard when I wanna discuss things.

Spiffeh has moved to top of "this can't possibly be scum" pile and they're a chronic worrier, so I desperately wanna spam worry together.

I was starting to quote wall and then thought better of it but i understand

[skitter30]

So i kinda think hst is scum here
I'm having a hard time parsing where remaining scum is and I feel like someone i'm townreading i shouldn't be

Lmk, when that kinda becomes more confident.

It makes the most sense to me rn

[skitter30]

Below is my elimination priority at this juncture. Obviously open to re-evaluating with good arguments against this or unexpected flips:

STD/skitter -> SirCakez/RCEnigma -> Firebringer/LLD

Happy to swap the last two pairs in the event STD/skitter is Town/Town

Uhhhh i'm really not confident this is gonna win, like at all

I know i'm town, probably std is (did you ever read the point that i brought up thay you said i didn't)

And i'm p sure rce is, and cakez probably is too

I do think hst is scum here and not having him.on the roadmap.is not great from my pov

[skitter30]

Uh i mean that helps.with the lld paranoia but doesnt make me more confidnt in winning this, no

Did you ever read the std bit?

Are you scumreading me or std?

[skitter30]

Skitter can you explain the HST scum read or point out some posts you’ve made previously where you’ve done so?

I think there's scum in the people who are largely universally townread
And there has to be scum in the people who cabd might be willing to leave the game to

Lld is accepting that she has a short life span, and there are not a lot of other names on the list. When i look at the game this way, hst is the name that pops out

Also don't think he's been trying to especially solve this second dance

[skitter30]

I read through your iso again and it was a combo of things:

- i do think you're actually trying to solve here
- you have a few posts indicating that you're not familiaf with the plan, like the one i quoted on the page before this one where you say you wouldnt leave as scum. I have a hard time wrapping my head around scum saying that in thread knowing their partners et al were planning on leaving. Your reaction to the double-leave is also kinda townie bit can be faked
- i think generally you're trying to solve, and have a mindset of trying to get it right
- i do put some stock into the 'spiffeh doesn't hate his existance'/'likes beinf kn thread'/'seems to be enjoying the game' take, and when i read your iso a lot of your posts are better than i remember

[skitter30]

i think LLD kinda can't afford to act more survivalistic if she was scum, like, idk about you but if LLD tried to steer things away from her i'm murdering her

i also think skitter's confidence in her STD townread is kinda weird? since there's like, not much

I'm not, what makes you think i am confident. The strongezt things i have are the fact that he wants to leave and the fact he had one unaligned-looking argument with cabd, i'm at like a 6/10

I am kinda wavering on the lld being town thing but i think enuf of you are willing to lim.her that i'm not too worried. I am kinda concerned that they're a tvt pair which js not great if you lim mine lol

[skitter30]

*if std is town

[skitter30]

Skitter can you explain the HST scum read or point out some posts you’ve made previously where you’ve done so?

I think there's scum in the people who are largely universally townread
And there has to be scum in the people who cabd might be willing to leave the game to

Lld is accepting that she has a short life span, and there are not a lot of other names on the list. When i look at the game this way, hst is the name that pops out

Also don't think he's been trying to especially solve this second dance

I thought this to start the day but do LLD and HST both just nope out of the thread when Cabd puts the game on either of their shoulders?

I don't know but it appears to be a valid tactic

Maybe it's gypyx and one of lld/hst

[skitter30]

Ok why are you two ending up at gypyx?

[skitter30]

Which of you initiated the gypyx sr?

[skitter30]

skitter why do u not seem concerned at all about STD at all

I am

[skitter30]

I don't really know how to reconcile: i am town and i don't want to be mislimmed
With
My partner might be scum and/or get voted out and/or threatens to leave

So i'm kind of just working with: i'll do what i can to solve until i'm not in the thread anymore, for whatever reasonn
And i'm kind of shoving the problem to one side because idk how to handle it really

[skitter30]

Well gl all

[skitter30]

I'd probably do like
Hst bell
Fire lld
Rce cakez
Gypyx spiffeh
In that order

But my reads are presently Not Great

[skitter30]

Gg all
Grats to bell/spiffeh/gypyx!

Hst i really hope you feel better soon >>

[skitter30]

I think i was p spot post Plan