Open 561: Farmer's Market (Game Over)

[neil1113]

I replaced into a game where I'm town and I'm a leading wagon... yay.

#gottalovemeta

#whydoesthisalwayshappentome

#whyamiusinghashtags

#thisisnttwitter

[neil1113]

Ohhh but let me UNVOTE: until I read and figure out why my predecessor was voting Mathgeek.

[neil1113]

Anyone home?

*whispers*

I'm scared... and lonely.

[neil1113]

Still haven't gotten around to reading this unfortunately. I really want to read up on Math. And D_J, I plan on looking into that as well when I read up.

Fitz: Lol you're awesome. Best scum hunter on this site. Haven't we gone through this before? Just curious by the way, do you plan on actually making a case for your vote or did you just want to use that fluff as your excuse for if I get mislynched, so you have a way out of it tomorrow after my flip?

BTW's, if the plan is to send fruit to the person below you, I'm totally down with that.

[neil1113]

Neil...the game is not that long. You should have been able to read it by now and form opinions vice coming in almost a day after joining and posting an "I'm lonely" post.

I prefer Siv...but if I'm off the mark enough to be the lone vote on him...I'm going to switch to option B. You.

How do you feel about Aronis and Fish's reasons for voting you?

Sigh... I guess I'll read the game. Tonight it should be complete and I guess I can look at Fishface and Adonai's reasonings.

I don't think I even know who either of them are to be honest. :/

P.S. I'll do a recap of my read through every couple of pages, so you know where I am in my read through and my opinions of it.

[neil1113]

Neil on a scale of 1-10 how good are you as town and as scum? (separate answers please)

As town? Eh... 5. As scum? I'd say 8 or 9. I don't normally lose scum games.

Neil should know who I am. We just played a newbie game together where I spearheaded his lynch after he shittily tunneled me.

Ah yes, where you spearheaded a mislynch. It was great. I also had no time what-so-ever to put into that game unfortunately. I'd rather not remember that. But to be fair, it's not difficult to "spearhead" a mislynch with a hundred newbies... it's like bragging because you successfully convinced a group of 3 year olds that Santa exists. Weren't you town that game? I don't think bragging about spearheading a mislynch with a terrible crappy case that only went through because I wasn't around to stop it, is something to boast about personally. But whatever floats your boat, cutie.

[neil1113]

People I'm fine with lynching are don, math and... that's kindof it.

I feel like the only reason you'd come up with this is because frankly, they are the only two actually talking... :/ (This is not an accusation of any sorts)

I am curious, if you're top suspects are the two that are currently dominating the thread arguing... do you really think it's a major buss? Or are you just being opportunistic here? (This is an accusation, somewhat.)

Alright, going to page one, and reading through now. Sorry Fitz, I knew you were waiting for me. <3

P.S. That was a great catch on that call out to "hurry the game up." So far from what I've read, that's the scummiest thing. (P.S.S. This doesn't say too much, I haven't read anything except for the posts after I replaced in.)

[neil1113]

I've been doing well in recent times (ib4 Neil bitches about that newbie game)

You really think I would've done that? :/

I'm not a bitch, seriously. I don't have any harsh feelings towards you, at all. Honestly, the whole "I don't know fish" at the beginning was a lapse of looking at the player list. All I knew was a player named fish, I didn't really even think of you when I said I didn't recognize fish. I literally had not even really looked at the game. Even now, I haven't read much. The apathy of this game is honestly getting to me. I've read the first page, that's it. I admit, you're the only one who's even tried to make a case against my slot (not me in particular, but that's because you can't. I haven't given any information to analyze because I haven't read the game...) yet you have people like Fitz with that terrible reasoning, and horrible attempt at sheeping a wagon, and then the other dude (Aronis?) who, I'm not even sure is in this game anymore...

Honestly from my wagon, I wouldn't presuppose you or even Aronis is scum. Fitz on the other hand, that should bother you seeing that blatant sheep and disregard to the town portion of the game. Town would want to lynch scum, what part of Fitz's posting even remotely looks like town trying to lynch scum when he put his vote on me? Can you honestly see that coming from town? And if not, why are you okay with that sheeping vote? Either I assume you think he's bussing his scum partner, or scum is jumping on the biggest wagon opportunity (and probably what Fitz considers his biggest threat to eliminate, considering I personally hand delivered a lynch on him in a previous game when nobody really suspected him to start, I was town that game too), which should give you your own pause at who you think you're lynching. Either way, I don't see how YOU can be confident with this wagon, considering the wagoners...

I think I've also caught another scum red handed, but I'd like to read through the entire game before I post my case to make sure it fits their motivation. If I can find any point to show them as town throughout this game, I'll probably disregard it for now. However as of their latest postings, I seriously doubt I'll find anything but scum motivation behind their posts...

[neil1113]

I tried. And failed. You look it up and tell me how assuming he has reasons makes sense.

I've looked it up to. He doesn't have points. *sigh* He's not scum hunting, he's trying to pull off a lynch on somebody who personally led his ass to the slaughter in another game.

Poor kid. I admit, I've not done much and haven't read the game. I'm still around and I've been reading since I replaced in. Does that make me worthless? Hell I've posted more than some people in this game already... and I've been actively posting (in the past week) more than half the people in this game! So L O FUCKING L to the idea that I'm useless. Lazy? Yes. Busy? Yep. But what's everyone elses excuse?

And as you've already pointed out, we have failed to see how that in any way points more to me being scum, then it does to me being lazy town. We've failed to see it because that logic doesn't exist. Fitz isn't actually looking to lynch scum. Fitz is looking to lynch SOMEONE (me), regardless of alignment. You can see that in his postings. There's literally no town motivation in that. You're not looking to lynch lazy town. You're looking to lynch scum. Unless you're scum, in which case it doesn't matter who you lynch, which is exactly the vibe I get from reading his posts, and is exactly why I'm voting him.

[neil1113]

Neil. As you said, fitz is just looking to lynch you. But there is town reasoning for that. He's conf-biasing you as scum to some extent. It happens. Town does it. Scum ends up stuck in it sometimes. It doesn't mean crap as to his alignment. And I do think it's to some extent a fitz-tell.

Anti-town =/= scum but it's really, really, really hard to remember that when you think someone is scum. And that goes both ways here.

Damnitt. You're right, it's not exactly a scum tell.

UNVOTE:

I must have missed something. Is neil actually claiming that it's reasonable to both trust him and be okay with the fact that he hasn't read the damn game?

The one guy who isn't reading the thread defends the other guy not reading the thread. I'm shocked.

If this is the level of activity I can expect in this game, Mod, you'll have to replace me soon too. This isn't a game if no one is playing or reading.

Don't worry about replacing out, you'll be lynched soon enough I'm guessing.

You're right my apathy toward this game is frustrating, and while I was considering myself to replace out, the mod took time to make this game and host it for us, the least we can do is play it. I'm going to read through it, starting right now. And I'm going to put time and effort in, the way the mod did to design this. I apologize for my apathy.

I will say this, if I put all this time into it, and get killed Night One because I'm the "most-town" (or well, the only town that's talking), I'm gonna be pissed.

Alright, well here goes nothing.

[neil1113]

I apologize for my apathy.

I will say this, if I put all this time into it, and get killed Night One because I'm the "most-town" (or well, the only town that's talking), I'm gonna be pissed.

Alright, well here goes nothing.

^ bullshit

You the "most town" is hilarious. Most worthless yah. You have yet to contribute anything. Even your posts that appear wordy say nothing.

Let's save scum from ""having"" to kill you tonight by just getting rid of you today.

I think I'm going to just stop responding to you because it's obvious you didn't actually read my post. Hell, the post you quoted me on voided your own accusations. It's becoming pointless and distracting responding to you, which is exactly what scum want, rather you're scum or not.

[neil1113]

I'm on page 9. My notes are getting kind of ridiculous... should I post everything now, or wait until I'm done? I'm going to try and start going quicker, I realize I may be putting too much detail into my notes lol.

[neil1113]

I would be fine with a page by page.

I didn't exactly... do it that way. :/ You'll see. I'm on page 13 right now. Almost done!

[neil1113]

Spoiler: Here's My Entire Notes

First to start, I'm giving everyone points to access my reads. Positive points is towniness, negative is scumminess. Knowing what we know now, as I'm rereading Page 1, I'm curious. Everybody was so quick to sheep the idea of passing fruit to the person below them, I'm bound to think scum is in there. Especially before Hayato said anything.

Don_Johnson begins the post by saying basically "there must be a good idea somewhere, I just need to step back and see if I can figure it out." I don't get the benefit of posting that, and if Don_Johnson turns out to be scum, and this was a fluff / filler post, I wouldn't be surprised to see an interesting team between TSO and him. Especially with TSO's joke post of "fruit, what fruit?" Post 5 and Post 7 respectively.

Math comes up with the plan to send the fruit to the person below them. I'm basically WIFOMing here, but as scum I can see Math doing this if they speculated on the fact that two mafia were next to each other on the list. What's more likely though, is Math as town thought this would be the perfect way to break this system and find out who scum is.

So far we have TSO and Don_Johnson with -1 points. Math with 1. Everyone else 0.

The Bulge has nothing to add, but it's RVS so that's suspected. I don't like InnocentVillager adding townie points to that post, as I can't see how you can possibly attribute town or scum tells to RVS posts with no actual content. Sounds like opportunistic scum, trying to buddy by giving away free townie points. Along with InnocentVillagers town slip that I feel was faked, the idea of mafia sending fruit and killing, makes me believe that Math isn't mafia, and that the idea of being able to break the system scared scum InnocentVillager. He now has -2 points for both of the points against him. Post 9 is the post I was referring to.

Math's response to IV's attempt at discrediting the case is townie as well, stopping others form speculating on false reasoning. That's a point for Math. TSO sheeping in Post 11 is nerve-racking, but is null in general. I wouldn't attribute scum points to that. In fact I'd probably attribute town to it, because of TSO's lack of fear with that idea. Siv's following post however, makes my ears pop up. In Post 12 Siv points out that it "only gets rid of a nightkill" as if it wasn't good enough? Then he "still thinks" doing the fruit-circle on two nights is the optimal strategy. He's discussing this, like he's ALREADY discussed it before. He then sheeps a TSO vote (I'm sure for RVS reasons) which further confirms my idea that TSO could be town. The only way Siv could have talked about this before, is during the pre-game confirmation period... which would make him scum. Slip?

TSO and Don_Johnson continuing talking to each other, semi-ignoring everyone else (noted for buddying up, potential partners depending on the flip of one or the other. See posts 13-15). The Bulge again provides needless content, pointing out the over-obvious. Now I'm taking note that The Bulge is actively not contributing, while appearing to be.

In this post, Siv looks to attribute dispair to the idea of preventing two night kills at night (why is Siv actively trying to down that idea, like it's a bad thing?) and then talks about "shutting up about it" because it's "taking up space needlessly." Normally that would be a town thing to do, if there are several pages just regarding beating the set-up and it's stopping or detracting from normal town conversation. However, being as it's been less than 24 hours, and you're only on page 1, while most people haven't even contributed yet... this seems opportunistic, or almost faking it to appear town. He wasn't stopping a distraction from becoming bigger, he was appearing to. Then the whole "I have no idea how to win in the day" thing freaks me out. Isn't that the point of Mafia? Figuring out who's scum, actively pushing people during the day phases and lynching scum? If you can't win in the day, you must win at night... which at night, in this game, that'd be the scum that would be prominent. Not town. Another slip?

Don posts with a vote on InnocentVillager, but then Siveure sheeps the vote. With my primary suspicions on Siveure, it makes it clear one or the other is scum, not both. Either IV is, or Siv is. The sheep vote for RVS is starting a wagon, and I don't like it.

Here's where Hayato finally enters the game! I don't like the sheep vote on IV either, but then Hayato makes probably the most town post of Page 1. Hayato is the only person to have brought up the idea of breaking the system actually backfiring if scum are together here. I like how Hayato doesn't shut down the idea but rather states we should "think about this some more" which is obviously referring to the obvious sheepers of the plan.

The Bulge's response to it in post 25 is townie. He explains even if that does happen, we expose that someone is lying. If they get lynched, and flip scum, we've successfully found the other scum partner by association. It's basically a 2 for 1.

I really disliked Hayato's idea (which makes me wonder if Hayato is posting without actually thinking about what Hayato was saying, which is a town-tell IMO, scum would be more careful), but although I think Hayato spoke without thinking, what I dislike more is the quick sheeping by TSO and the Bulge.

Aronis finally makes his first appearance all game, sheeping the obvious wagon from the last two posts before his, Hayato. However instead of actually addressing what Hayato said, Aronis sums up the case in a completely misrepresenting way, and justifies his vote there with the misrepped case. Look at post 35 for more information.

I'm stopping real quick at Post 36 (Bulge's post) to say an idea. What if we had opposite days? Where like Day 1 it's give a fruit to the person below you, and Day 2 it's give fruit to the person above you? Nevermind, now that I think about it the concept would be pointless because the other mafia member would do the killing and the person above them would fake claim that they received the fruit from their partner. Continuing...

I don't get the back and forth between Hayato and Aronis. I'm not sure Hayato's point there, nor am I clear why Aronis is assuming everyone would be dead after two nights of no killing. However Aronis' confusion in post 39 reads genuine to me. Townie points awarded for that.

Siv, as scum, would make a good point to try and stop this idea of breaking the setup and stopping their team two nights in a row from killing. And there it is, hidden under the blanket of "uncertainty" and random questions that really don't support anything... post 43.

I also noticed the sort of buddying that Siv is doing with Hayato (and appears to be working) while voting on the Bulge, the easiest to wagon (in my opinion) of the people that voted on Hayato.

Hayato and TSO are bouncing back opinions on strategy, which makes sense. TSO is the type of person from my Meta with him and the games I've played, TSO will vote someone out of pure frustration. Happens often actually. What's interesting to note though, is that while this is happening, Siv again buddies up to Hayate by defending Hayate. What's interesting, and I hope someone addresses this, is that Siv says the Bulge's vote was "most suspicious." Why? I wonder if Siv will go on to address this or not, or if anyone calls him out on it. (Check out post 51, just scroll up from the link below this.)

Post 53 is the first place where Siv took on the idea that the plan was his too, (the entire towns) and not just a few select others in the town. Yet earlier, he pushes that Hayato's plan was good too, and voted others who didn't like that opinion (Bulge). The Bulge makes an excellent point in proving Siv's own bias and hypocriticalness in post 54, right below Siv's.

Hayate's vote on the Bulge here kind of shows Hayate getting played by Siv, and Siv's buddying is working. Meanwhile, I have no idea why scum would ever admit to a terrible play like TSO did here, so that's more townie points from my POV.

The Bulge points out the language in post 59, "furthering my plan" as for a reason for voting him, yet doesn't realize that language came from Siv. Bulge doesn't realize Siv is playing Hayate like a violin right now, neither does Hayate. However in post 60, Bulge makes an appeal to the inactive in the game, to get conversation going. Sounds like an actual town motivated post to me. You can click here to see the posts in question.

Everything about Siv's post 62 screams fake. The case on Bulge is off centered, and stretching, and the post to Hayate that he quoted is ridiculously fake. "I can't see what's wrong right now, dangitt!!!!! I totes need to go more in depth and take some more time to realize what's going on,

because I'm not actually reading.... just posting to make myself look active, while buddying up to you.

" (Emphasis and exaggeration mine.)

Siv and Bulge take time bickering between Siv's hypocriticalness and Bulge's confusion for why he's being voted in the first place. Aronis unvotes in the meantime. Aronis' playstyle reminds me of lazy town, who's looking to sheep the best made case. Not really like scum, trying to mislynch.

Math comes out and nails it perfectly, stupidity does not equal scum. While I think stupid was a harsh word to use for speaking before you think, it gets the point across. Check it: here. I'm not going to lie though, reading through all of this and seeing Bulge's conclusion here made me face palm.

Don_Johnson does nothing to help him appear town with this post. Voting math for no reason, yet makes it appear like the wagon is a thing. Hayato during the mean time, proves my point of Hayato sheeping Siv, and Siv actually leading the case against Bulge here.

Siv's post 80 is again buddying up to Hayato, while turning around and making a pretty pathetic case to sheep the other votes on Math. My guess is Siv saw the Don_Johnson post voting Math, and decided to go with it, in the back of Siv's mind seeing Math as the next leading wagon. And of course if you scroll down slightly, in post 82, there goes Hayato wagging his tail and following Siv.

Watch Siv's response to Hayato asking his master why Bulge is no longer scum: here. confbias? Really? There didn't appear to be any confbias there, but rather an OMGUS vote off of somebody he was buddying. In fact, an ADMITTED OMGUS vote off of somebody else.

Aronis also is confirming my point with post 86, that Aronis isn't really reading the thread. It had already been decided that we were going with the fruit plan #1 proposed by Math. Math's post on InnocentVillager at this point would be the best vote I would have agreed with. Comparitively, no other person was nearly as scummy next to Siv than Innocent Villager. Don quickly invalidates Math's post, for no reason (literally, says nothing) but to invalidate Math's opinion. (Where's the town motivation in that post, found here?

Don's scummy level is increasing rapidly. Aeronaut has still not posted and is replaced with Bins at this point. Bins makes a good post here while catching up. Hayato's sheeping is weird, but is not unprecendented when you realize Siv's manipulation and buddying up to Hayato.

Innocentvillager did a good job of explaining himself and posting back here which made me lose a lot of my suspicion on him. At this point, Marcrell and Ashura have both been replaced by Fitz and FormerFish respectively. Neither has posted, so neither really have much opinions on them.

Notice here, the distancing between Siv and "the plan" which a few posts before this Siv was all about claiming was "our plan"... here. Siv jumps back on the Bulge for no reason more than he looks weird / scummy to him, with no real reasoning.

I'm not going to lie, when Fitz came in and placed a vote on Siv, and Siv's casual "why me?" response.. I got excited. You can check that out here. My townie sense is tingling with Fitz.

Siv starts pushing TSO to wagon with him for Bulge, and when asked by Aronis why, Siv gives the most WIFOM filled answer possible. "Everything looks like it could come from scum" while not including the obvious, "everything ALSO looks like it could come from town-Bulge."

Bulge makes an OMGUS vote, though it's understandable when Siv is able to manipulate and buddy up to enough people, that they start sheeping his vote. Bulge makes a vote here, probably (my speculation) to push the gravity of the bad case against him. TSO seems genuinely interested in a case against Siv, which shows thought and consideration. That's town points for me, since I have a good understanding of Scum-TSO and that's not him.

Make note here, that Don still is doing nothing during post 122, and is the first time Don is really adressing Siv, or the idea of Siv being scum. This post screams "I don't want to buss, but I will if I have to." It's interesting that he immediately buddies up to Fitz, which if I'm correct, is the person that just called his potential scum partner out for being scummy. Good idea to get the new replacement on your side. If they think you're town and read your posts with confbias, you might get away from any suspicions.

Siv's response to Bulge's case (which was fairly good IMO based on the information revealed) is to invalidate the Bulge, and to redirect the questioning to Hayate. "Hey Bulge, is Hayate still scum?" Look Here. I bet if Bulge would have pushed Hayate as scum, Siv would have been there to back him up ASAP.

Fish's second post is on the theory of the game. First was that Fish didn't read the game yet. Fish is null at this point (Post 127). What's interesting is Siv's fake response to it. Siv pushes the idea of "woah there's another one?!?!?!" here and then

5 minutes later...

comes back and talks about it. So Siv was able to search for the game, find the game, read through the game, makes his assessment, then post it here all in... 5 minnutes? I find that rather hard to believe. Then the following post to that one, Siv again tries to invalidate Bulge by using confbias as an excuse to why his posts look scummy. Probably to Fish, who hasn't read the game yet by his own admission... another manipulation technique? (Buddying)

Bins post about her experience with the other game reading through it looks much more legit. And seeing her give that time dedication to making that assumption earned townie points for me. Also, compare her post here to Siv's "wonderful recap" of the game a few posts before it. See a difference? Perhaps one person giving more attentiveness to it? Yeah, me too...

Speaking of Siv, here Siv is trying really hard to invalidate Bulge falsly, pushing the fact that Bulge is scum... perhaps to try and invalidate the nicely made case Bulge made against Siv earlier? Then Siv completely shuts down conversation with Bulge trying to actually inquire about his case here.

The Fitz and Bins discussion on town Bulge seems genuine, they both have townie points from me. I especially liked Fish's entrance after the discussion, it looked like Fish genuinely was reading through the game. Aronis' hesitation to jump on the Siv wagon is something definitely to take notice of, here.

Bins isn't nearly as townie as Fitz is in my book yet, mostly due to a lack of posting. But she's definitely getting there, though I don't know how to view her vote on Siv here. It could easily read as bussing, should suspicion come onto Bins later. I'll definitely keep this for notes.

Siv's posts a few before this one and especially including that one, screams deflection to me. Also, Fitz, I hope you didn't forget about this post. I am not sure if Don ever answered you, but if not, this is something we definitely need to follow up on. Especially with Don's post here, screams scum trying NOT to buss their buddy. It's funny how Don asks what the case is, yet Bulge made a case that Don addressed earlier as interesting if it's true, yet never commented on it up until this point. Then asked what the case is on Siv... really Don? I can't help but think you're trying really hard not to buss your partner here.

Siv's push here screams nothing more than "hey I did a town slip! Wait no, hey wait, it's a town slip, let's not let this go! I'm going to post it again to make sure everyone sees it!" Fitz and everyone else should read this post and the following few while Siv takes personal offense to Fitz calling out Hayate for sheeping Siv everywhere. Why would this take place? Unless Siv was purposefully manipulating and buddying up to Hayate and didn't want that called out and Siv exposed. If Hayate turns on Siv, Siv could be left alone without anyone to defend him and with his partner (probably Don_Johnson) already looking like he's willing to buss him if absolutely necessary, Siv wants whatever partners he could get to defend him.

I hate the Math suspicion starting to grow on Page 10. It's off of faulty logic coming from a guy (Math) who had a different view of game theory than us. It sounds more like a new mistake than it does a purposeful scum plan. Also notice on page 11, the absolutely lack of talk concerning Siv from Don here after his repetative talk of "good case Bulge" and "what's the case on Siv" then it becomes.. nothing. No mention of Siv. In fact, it becomes a counter wagon case on Math who everyone already is starting to look at. How is this not perfect scum deflection from his partner?

Siv's "come back to life" drama that was played near the end of Page 11 does not fool me one bit. More manipulation to start Page 12 with this crap while Siv is trying to use reverse psychology on those in the game. I see during Page 12, Bins has successfully been manipulated and buddied up to enough by Siv that she's now sheeping him as well. There it is! The manipulation from Siv toward Hayato, I told you it'd happen soon enough where Siv would turn against Hayato. But remember, Hayato turned against Siv first and doubted Siv, so now Siv is trying to cast suspicions on Hayato here. Rather faulty too.

Alright after 13 pages and seeing the inactivity / lack of effort shown by the few in this game who didn't care to give it the attention it deserved, I can completely see Fitz' town frustation here.. Although I will admit, the Bulge's post here caught me completely off guard. Where the hell did TSO come from to become your vote?

Page 14 comes along... and you have a pointless discussion about Sundays and (ironically, we're back to the same game theory discussion that Siv was so adamant against during Page 1) it's between Siv and Math! The irony! (This is not really role-related, though it is quite the coincidence... and kinda confirms that perhaps Siv said that for townie points, not actually because that was his motivation.)

Fitz, you asked how I felt about Aronis and Fish's reasonings against me here yet did not give a reason yourself for voting me. You basically said "if I can't get this lynch off, so be it. I'll go after you just because!" And that's how I took it. So maybe you can understand where I was coming from, I didn't honestly realize the game state during that moment. As far as Aronis and Fish's reasonings, Aronis hasn't been giving really any reasons to vote anyone other than lazy town answers. Sheeping people, seeing where the best direction is, etc. Fish's reasons were fighting between myself and Siv, because the way the sheeping was working, the way I see it, there has to be scum between one of us. And I agree with it to be honest. I just think because of Siv's masterful manipulation and the luck of the draw with inactivity and replacements, I think Siv has been able to wiggle out of the spot light. At least, before this post.

Now I'm at the point where Iceguy replaces innocentvillager. Iceguy has quite the task on his hands. If it wasn't for the associative pair of Don_Johnson and Siv, I'd be voting him. And damnitt, Ice did the opposite here. He provoked more suspicion in my eyes, should Siv flip town, onto himself. I hated the whole "this day needs to end right now", however true it is, expressing the apathy toward this game. While my wagon was weak, I disagree that I'd call it bullshit and dismiss it the way he did without prior knowledge of my alignment. In fact, I'd be somewhat suspicious of Hayate, depending on Siv's flip to be frank. But the thing that killed me, was the overly opportunistic vote on Math, which kinda proved to me he didn't really read the game as well as he did. Well that and the Siv accusation.

Ice picked the worst example to explain Siv being scum, out of everything Siv did, to cling to. I wonder if Ice read the game closely, or if he skimmed... I actually liked Bins here as she makes a point that no one has actually made any valid points or cases against Math. Don's back and forth with Math looks terrible for Don, because Don is trying so hard to grasp at straws. Siv also finally has a reason after that to cast suspicion on his partner, Don here. And then? This gem comes out... how do you forget Bulge when he literally pushed you for 2 weeks about how scummy you are and wanted your lynch? And in 2-3 days you suddenly forget?

Fish is looking better and better as I read through Page 16. Meanwhile Siv looks worse and worse. Here Siv states he's being opportunistic with his vote on Math (why? And what town-motivation is in that?) and then when voting for Don, clings to the fact that Don is lazy? What a terrible case, but it would make complete sense that he has to come up with something in case Don's wagon takes off and he has to buss his partner... Math points this out actually later on through this page, and exposes Siv also. Also: this post doesn't shock me at all Bins...

Here is Siv's answer when asked his opinion on me or Ice (remember, I took over the Hayate slot, that Siv tried really hard to cast suspicion on earlier)... Click Me!!! Fitz asked for suspicions on me, Siv's response "Not. At. All." Literally. What a big jump. Also take a look through Page 17... once again, Don is there, Siv is there, and not a SINGLE COMMUNICATION is made between the two. Over and over and over again, throughout this entire game, there's been distancing between Don and Siv. Except for the "my top suspects are X, Y, and Don/Siv." Yet they don't talk to each other? How the hell is this possible?

Look back through it and tell me, can you find an actual conversation between the two? Anywhere?!?!?!? Bueller? BUELLER?! Wait maybe it changes...

*reads through Page 18 where both Don and Siv are posting*

Nope!

*reads what page of 19 we have currently*

Wait! Siv made a comment to Don about no kills! Finally Siv actually addressed Don without calling him one of his top suspects. Can we end this game now?

First to be lynched: Siveure DtTrikyp

Next in line to be lynched: Don_Johnson.

If for some reason I'm wrong: IceGuy. (But doubt it.)

My full reads list since I'm probably not going to die tonight anyway... (From towniest to Scum)

Math - 2
The Bulge - 2
HavingFitz - 2
Aronis - 1
Bins - 1
TSO - 1 - Buddied by Don Johnson
Everyone Else - 0
InnocentVillager -1
Don_Johnson -2 Buddied the hell out of TSO, is not talking to Siv at all, and is not actively hunting scum.
Siveure - 5

Ignore the numbers and notes next to the names, it was for my own record.

And then:

VOTE: Siveure DtTrikyp

[neil1113]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ice

I felt a LOT better with my vote here. It's staying here.

I'm going to trust my gut.

I think this is a bad spot to be in right now, voting Ice. I don't believe Ice will (or should be) our lynch for today, given the information. If Ice does flip scum, we won't have much information to work off of in regards to team, etc. However if I'm correct and Siv flips scum, we have a fairly certain idea where to go next. If Siv flips town, we have a lot of information to work off of then, to figure out the next best path. Either way, we'll get more information in regards to Siv flipping then Ice.

Also, consider this Bins: Who's pushing the Ice wagon right now? (Answer: Siv.) It's scum trying to play the "appeal to emotions" and the "defeatist" card again. Why? Because it worked for him last time. And you're letting him manipulate you... again. Siv is deflecting his lynch to the easiest target (and the only person I made a case on, besides his partner Don) that others have slightly expressed concern with. Siv thinks Ice would be the best lynch right now, and Siv won't have to buss his partner to do it. Until a Siv or Don flip, I do not feel comfortable with Ice and will read Ice as town in comparison to my desire for lynching Siv.

Just think about it Bins.

(Also, Hi Xayzeck! It's been a while lol.)

[neil1113]

A math lynch is as terrible as an Ice lynch right now, in regards to you and Don out there. >:(

What the hell people? Why is Siv not dead? Don't tell me the defeatest attitude is manipulating you AGAIN.... Siv is trying desperately to appear town, don't let it fool you.

[neil1113]

Hi Bins! Let me ask you, why is Ice scummier than Siv, with all the points brought out in a case against Siv and the only real case I've seen against Ice right now is the one I produced? Hell if I'm the leader of both wagons (case wise), don't you think it's pretty telling I'd rather lynch Siv or Don right now over Ice, especially being the one that made the Ice case?

[neil1113]

VOTE: Iceguy

Stop this. Vote Siv, or sit down. Siv has 4 votes, he's at L-2. We need to get him to L-1, and then hammer him. We have literally less than 24 hours left, and I've explained multiple times why a Don or Siv lynch would be more fulfilling with information than an Ice lynch. If you wanted to counter wagon Siv, Don would give more information. Ice is 3rd on the list. Stop being anti-town, and vote for scum please? Thanks.

I know Siv has addressed me a couple times. Unfortunately I don't have the patience or time to go toe to toe with scum right now, seeing as we have less than a day left until deadline.

NOBODY VOTE ICE. NOBODY VOTE DON. NOBODY VOTE ANYONE, OTHER THAN SIV.

If we freaking go to a "no lynch" because of your dumb ass, I'm going to be pissed.

Be actually pro-town, and vote scum (Siv).

This also goes out to Xayzeck, Bins, and FormerFish, Aronis, and Bulge. But with Aronis and Bulge out, that leaves 2 of the necessary votes needed to come from Xay, Bins, Fitz, and Fish. (Btw, I seriously doubt Siv has any real desire to hammer himself. Think about his recent posts, and his out that he gave himself when he said "yeah someone else might need to hammer me, because I might not be around..." yet the whole time before this he was like "don't worry guys, i'm so town and have the town's best interest at heart, so i'll hammer myself to make sure we don't no lynch! You can count on me!!!!"

Bull #*(@#. Siv is scum. Hammer time.

(Siv, since you're the lynch for today, a claim would be nice now. I'm expecting a power role claim, since that'd be the best claim scum can do. If you say VT, I'm going to be seriously disappointed in you when you flip scum.)

[neil1113]

Siv, since you're the lynch for today, a claim would be nice now. I'm expecting a power role claim

Why don't you familiarize yourself with the game's set up

*sigh* Nobody understood my joke. The claiming part was not a real request.

[neil1113]

(Siv, since you're the lynch for today, a claim would be nice now. I'm expecting a power role claim, since that'd be the best claim scum can do. If you say VT, I'm going to be seriously disappointed in you when you flip scum.)

Yup I got a power role.

I'm a

Mafia 3-shot fruit vendor.

Ah, just saw it!

[neil1113]

I received fruit. Me and Math both can clarify we've both gotten fruit from each other.

Bins dying was, in my opinion, a really bad call from scum. I'm really sorry how off I was on my reads. I wonder if that's why I'm left alive. It appeared I was leading the town with that wagon, which means people will / would listen to my reads. If I'm calling scum town, I'd leave me alive too. I'm going to have to reevaluate where I stand.

As for Aronis, likely to have forgotten / likely to be scum... whatever. The fact that Aronis did not send fruit and everyone else did, means there is only one explanation.

Aronis is scum.

VOTE: Aronis

This is the (second? third?) game I've been in where I didn't want to push Aronis like that, because I hate the LAL philosophy (Lynch All Lurkers) seeing as I can see reasons why people just wouldn't be around to play much. I've been there myself. However, there's literally no other possibility here. I will say, I'd like to hear from Aronis and I will say it's a dangerous gambit for scum, if Ice fake claimed not receiving fruit.

[neil1113]

Bins dying was, in my opinion, a really bad call from scum.

By Bins, I clearly meant Bulge....

[neil1113]

Is there a reason Aronis is purposefully avoiding this thread?

To be fair, I don't think we can request the mod to force Aronis to do post before the alotted time, considering it's kind of the perfect scum plan. If Aronis is scum, to delay any information from the town as long as possible...

So we just have to wait for Aronis to do whatever Aronis wants to do. We're stuck...

[neil1113]

someone died. unless the scum are paired, whoever didn't give fruit is scum. right? if aronis flips town, then we know a)dj is not scum b)ice is not scum(unless aronis accuses him of lying) and c) scum is in a pair. right? I don't know. this is gonna make my head hurt, but let me know if I'm wrong. what are the possibilities here?

If Adonis is scum what will his response be? Ice guy is lying, I totes sent fruit! If he is town and did send fruit then he is going yo say he did send it and we are back at square one with him pointing a finger at Ice and Ice pointing one back.

The lynch today is Adonis, Ice, or Don.

Have to put him on the list as a suspect though, not doing so is stupid play.also, notice I have him last.

If Aronis forgot about this game, and honestly isn't even realizing he's still in this game (his inactivity shows his lack of interest the past week or so now...)

Hmm. It makes sense. Perhaps Aronis forgot to send fruit, but received Ice's. Then it comes to debating: Trust Aronis' lack of interest in this game or not? If we do, that leaves us with one suspect.

Read the first quote. I've played with Don multiple times. He's not this dumb, to be playing that way and asking those questions. "Someones died" yet doesn't clarify it's HIS partner? Notice how several options seem to be clearing him... with no common sense? He's confirmed town if Aronis flips town? How? Why would you even draw that conclusion? And if scum is in a pair, that clears Don as town, so Don is trying to push that idea too... trying to push our attention anywhere except himself.

While I may be off about Don and Siv's team (considering Siv flipped town, which I'm honestly still shocked by)... then Don would have to be scum. Don killed Bulge to escape giving fruit.

(Obviously this is all dependent on Aronis coming back and giving us some type of response.)

[neil1113]

I'd lynch you if we didn't have to deal with this damn fruit.

I don't believe Don is scum. And I don't believe Aronis would not pass and kill.

You keep saying things like "I'd lynch you" and "I bet Neil and Math are a scum team." Yet you've given nothing to attribute to this wonderful read of yours and hell... you haven't even been bothered to make a case (or attempt to)...

I can see if you're half-assing this game, how easy it'd be to say "Neil and Math are a scum team because Neil freed Math when Math was the leading wagon, and single handedly led the wagon on another townie saving his partner!"

Except for a couple things. 1. The Math wagon was terrible, and everybody knew it. Nobody could make a case on Math with a straight face. There was nothing scummy about him. The only difference? I pointed it out with facts and evidence. 2. When I first replaced in, I anticipated my vote going on Math like my predecessor's was (you really think my pred was bussing his partner hardcore for... no reason? Even when Math was the leading wagon?) which if you do a quick ISO, you can see my intentions in my first few posts. 3. I am as responsible for Siv's lynch as everyone's vote on him was... and that includes you, Ms. Sunshine.

I'd love to see you try and actually make a case on me, or that me and Math are a scum team. If you look at my predecessors play against Math, it's pretty easy to see, unless you think we were trying some elaborate gambit that I somehow decided to completely DESTROY with my actual cases, that the scumteam between us is highly unlikely. In fact, I can think of a couple that are more likely... like every other group. Tell me also, how you can objectively look at the pairs, and clear any of them?

[neil1113]

Your first two posts entering today have been nothing but scummy.

This is not a case. Come on, I know you can do it....

Continue. Why are my posts "nothing but scummy"? What makes them more scum motivated than town motivated? What makes them scum-tells instead of null-tells? What about them are so damn convincing, that it completely wipes out every other post and read my slot has made / given, the entire 27 pages of this game? I'm more than interested in hearing this.

[neil1113]

The possibility is there, that Ice or Aronis killed Bulge to frame Don_Johnson. But Aronis just not playing the game... is either a ridiculous cheap plan as scum (Aronis using his lurking ability to literally screw us over), or a black-list worthy lack of attention / care for the town playing against his win condition as town. Seeing how quickly Ice was to jump on Aronis when he found out he didn't get a fruit was a bit opportunistic. I can see Aronis being... for lack of a better term, VI, and Ice killing Bulge to frame Don. Think about it, Ice and Don were both the main suspects coming into Day 2, so chances are they would continue to be the greatest suspect. Ice wanted to have something to push over Don, so he framed him. Luckily for Ice however, Aronis was durp town and forgot to fruit. So he can pull off a mislynch on Aronis now, by saying he didn't get fruit, then push a lynch on Don off as well the next day, by using Bulge dying as framework for another mislynch when Aronis inevitably flipped town.

But I could also see Aronis being cheap and with the help of whoever his partner is, using his lurking as an excuse to not submit fruit, but instead kill. It shocks me though, that Aronis didn't come on and go straight for Don, if that's what they were hoping to do with the set up. In fact, it's kind of shocking nobody is really gunning for Don after that kill. Which makes me wonder if the set up (if that's what it was) backfired? If so, that would point to Ice/Aronis scum.

Bins trying to force a case out of a bunch of logical fallacies between myself and Math is terrible play, and would make a philosophy major cringe, but is not a tell of scum by itself. Bins is just off her rocker it appears. I think we should stick to what the evidence supplies us, and not go on our own path trying to make sense of information we haven't been given yet (like scum is in pairs.) Bulge is dead, which means either Don killed Bulge to clear himself of not fruiting, Aronis killed Bulge and is using lurking as an excuse to clear himself of not fruiting, or Ice killed Bulge and thought he'd be able to out-fight Aronis with a push-comes-to-shove battle over not fruiting / thought Aronis would lurk his way through and Ice would get away with not fruiting, by then framing Don.

Either way, the lynch pool today is between Aronis, Ice, and Don. To consider anyone else lynchable today is anti-town, and ridiculous play.

[neil1113]

You wasted your time typing that up. I know it's between Don, Ice, Aronis.

You realize not everything is about you... right? *facepalm*

I typed that up so that everyone has an idea of what the cases are against Don, Ice, and Aronis.

By the way, since you "know" it's between Don, Ice, and Aronis so well... how come you're so adamant about Don being town? I'm curious because you didn't have such a thorough town read on him yesterday, and there's no cops in this game so it's not like you could have a power role with your view (otherwise I wouldn't have asked)...

Your Don town read is rather sudden actually, and seemingly purpose-less.

If Don is lynched and flips scum, Bins is going to look really bad, FYI. I'm posting this as a note for future reference, if either of you are dead and flip scum.

As for who to vote, I feel like it's pretty simple. Aronis is either town, lying about Ice not giving him fruit and should be lynched, or Aronis is scum and is lying about Ice not giving him fruit, and should be lynched. If Aronis is lynched and flips town, then there's no reason for him to lie about Ice not giving him fruit. Which means Ice should be lynched tomorrow if Aronis flips town.

What do you think of this plan, IceGuy?

Confirming Vote: Aronis

VOTE: Aronis

[neil1113]

Scum's gotta flail...

[neil1113]

So Aronis is scum indeed. Spamming the thread and planting a wrong plan to screw the town over. Myself and Fish are here to help repost the plan if necessary.

Aronis - why'd you kill Bulge?

[neil1113]

I ain't even mad if we mislynch.-

You do realize at this point, that's not an option? If Aronis is town, he'll be modkilled for spamming and playing against his win condition. Especially after the hammer vote. He is definitely scum, there's no doubt about it.

P.Edit: Nice try implementing me Aronis. It's definitely believable. We're lynching me promptly tomorrow.

[neil1113]

Bah who am I even asking.

Neil, do you have any problems passing?

Nope, not a problem. You want me to pass it to you since it was originally you passing it to me?

[neil1113]

Bah who am I even asking.

Neil, do you have any problems passing?

Nope, not a problem. You want me to pass it to you since it was originally you passing it to me?

Actually... let me pass it to someone that can confirm it, but don't make me tell you who. That way scum can't frame me by killing whoever I'm passing to.

[neil1113]

So...

FINAL

IF ARONIS FLIPS TOWN

...
DO NOT PASS. LYNCH ICE TOMORROW.
-

IF ARONIS FLIPS SCUM

Players in ON TOP (in bold) pass to your partner, listed in groups below. Players BELOW do nothing.

don_johnson

Xayzeck

Bins

havingfitz

mathbandit

Formerfish

Neil_1113

??? (Mystery, but someone who isn't receiving fruit.)

Also I took Ice out and paired Bins with Fitz, because Ice is pretty much confirmed town for the moment, with the Aronis thing.

[neil1113]

ppl buss

Yeah but not with a post like this: (Bolded for Emphasis)

I ain't even mad if we mislynch.-

You do realize at this point, that's not an option? If Aronis is town, he'll be modkilled for spamming and playing against his win condition. Especially after the hammer vote. He is definitely scum, there's no doubt about it.

P.Edit: Nice try implementing me Aronis. It's definitely believable. We're lynching me promptly tomorrow.

Isnt my alignment really obv? Like I was gonna die anyways. Just wanted a few fireworks before I did.

And you should think about who gets towncred from this, bc I really dont want him to win.

[neil1113]

Definitely consider it but there are a lot of other possibilities

In my mind there's a greater chance he was framed and the other partner did nothing/passed normally to avoid suspicion of themself

My problem with ice scum is that Aronis claimed Ice didn't pass to him
I don't think he would out his partner like that
He was probably trying to take ice down

With Aronis flipping scum, I'm pretty sure in my eyes that would clear my slot, Ice's slot, Don's slot, and there was someone else that pushed the hell out of Aronis but I don't remember who. I'll have to check. I'm pretty sure his partner Day 1 tried to distance themselves by either not mentioning Aronis altogether, or by mentioning Aronis is scummy for pretty much no reason (or a crappy reason) but not really pushing the case. After all, whoever is Aronis' partner is pretty much guaranteed to be the one that came up with the gambit toward Ice. And it made since because Ice was already looking scummy as hell after Day 1 with our town flip from the lynch.

Also, I hate to say it, but... the fruiting idea left us with nothing but WIFOM. Yeah we stopped a kill last night, but now we have to wonder. Is is the other group trying to frame someone in the passing lane, or is it truly someone in the passing lane afraid to get caught?

I am interested though, Don, you stated my play all game has been "pretty scummy"... I'd like to hear your case. Why has my play been classified as pretty scummy, rather than null or town motivated? I asked Bins to do this earlier and she couldn't come up with anything either. I feel like that is a classic OMGUS accusation, and Bins just doesn't like my play style for whatever reason. Probably because I exposed her for the sheep she was. Oh well.

I'm going to read through again and see what I can find. To clarify:

Town is: Don, Neil, Ice

We're not lynching from these three today, unless you can provide one hell of a case to prove against the pretty glaring obviousness (from their interactions, flip, and play today) that these are town. That leaves the possible suspect pool of:

Xayzeck, fitz, math, fish, bins.

Although I will say, Fitz made an excellent push Day 1 against what looked like an obvious team (Don and Siv), and seemed pretty interested in the game. Day 2 Fitz was around, but didn't do much pushing (though clearly, no one really did. We had an obv scum so that could be an excuse.) I honestly like Fitz as town right now (without my read through again.)

Math's most recent post here kinda rubs me the wrong way... I'm more willing to look into a possible Math scum scenario. I just didn't like the crap pushes against Math Day 1, which made me believe it was scum motivated. Honestly, while I don't like Math's most recent post, I can still see his wagon and push being scum motivated so the people behind that, I'd like to look at too. But first I'll have to re-evaluate my read on Math.

Xayzeck, I really don't have much of an opinion on. Seems to be under the radar in my reads, as I don't have many notes on them in general. I'm going to have to change that.

Fish is in a similar situation as Xayzeck. I think somebody pushed Fish earlier as scum, and Fish responded rather... fishy (bum dum.. DUM!) and I have that recorded down as a red flag, but besides that not much really pinged my scum-dar with Fish. I'll have to again, re-evaluate.

Bins I don't have a clear, unbiased opinion on. I think she's just sheeping town right now, though I'm not really sure where my town read comes from. The way she bounced around Day 1, throwing her vote around like 1 water bottle split between 56 sweaty, thirsty football players. Day 2, she seemed kind of set on Aronis but in my notes, I feel like she gave herself a way out if the town wanted to push Ice or Don. Especially the way she kept clarifying she wanted to "wait for Aronis." As if she expected something specific. I can also kind of see a little bit of coaching going on as Bins kept saying "I want Aronis to claim Ice didn't give him fruit" or something along those lines, and she said it repetitively over and over again. As if, Bins and Aronis didn't expect Ice to come out on the offensive like that. Bins was trying to feed Aronis an idea to get out of the lynch, and ironically Aronis took it. So Bins "waited" and pondered, and then eventually realized there was no way Aronis was getting out of it, and voted him.

In fact, after typing out my opinion and rereading my notes on Bins from the last day phase, that really, REALLY does look like coaching and distancing practice. In fact, so much, that I'm comfortable doing this:

VOTE: Bins

I'll look back and reread through the others as well to make sure I'm not just biased, but I strongly recommend everyone read the interactions between Bins and Aronis from Day 2, and tell me how she DOESN'T look scummy from it. I'm pretty sure we just caught Aronis' teammate.

[neil1113]

Fitz, I completely agree with your plan. What confuses me the most, is that out of the 4, myself, Math, DJ, and Bins, you'd pursue one of the arguably most helpful person in that group?

Bins sheeps the hell out of anyone who listens.
DJ has contributed pretty much nothing to this game except for a scum read on Math he received on page 4 of this game...
Math is becoming more and more useless (though that's not necessarily a scum tell)
And I'm actively coming up with ideas, trying to do NK Analysis, VC analysis, theories, testing and trying them, questioning people, active....

It's kinda worrying you'd pursue the most active (contributor not just poster) scum hunter in that group.

Anyways since I do agree with the plan, I'd be more comfortable with a VOTE: Mathbandit death over a Don death right now. I can't see Aronis screwing his partner over like that, killing someone to frame his partner and then going toe-to-toe with Ice. I feel like if Don is scum, it'll be revealed throughout the game. Bins I just think is too trusting right now at Mafia, and so sheeps uncontrollably and doesn't really know how scum-tells work, which is not a scum-tell in and of itself. So Math would be my most comfortable choice of the three.

[neil1113]

you're killin me. I thought I'd have another day phase yet. if I'm the lynch then get it over with.

While I don't like this at all..

VOTE: ice

I think your case has more significance in my mind than the case on DJ. Honestly, if you're right about Ice, then I owe you an apology and you definitely have game MVP in my opinion.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ice

[neil1113]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Don_Johnson

Xayzeck [ 0 ]
havingfitz [ 0 ]
IceGuy [ 3 ] Don_Johnson, Bins, Xayzeck
don_johnson [ 4 ] Xayzeck, Formerfish, havingfitz, neil1113
neil1113 [ 1 ] IceGuy
mathbandit [ 0 ]
Formerfish [ 0 ]
Bins [ 0 ]
Not Voting: mathbandit

Amount To Lynch: With 8 alive it is 5 to lynch
Deadline: None.

This is

L-1

guys.

[neil1113]

no one ever confirmed giving me fruit. you may want to make sure xay still has some.

I gave you the fruit...

[neil1113]

If I was the last scum, honestly I'd just admit it at this point and end the game out of apathy. This wouldn't be a fun scum win at all... :'(

Even as town, this still isn't much fun either. Hopefully Ice is the last scum, so this game can be finished.

[neil1113]

I haven't posted in nearly 6 days, and didn't get a prod... :/

Um, forgetting about this game, I apologize. I did receive fruit.

[neil1113]

I'm here, I'd like to hear FF's question to Xay answered. As for me, I'm not entirely sure where I stand right now. I feel pretty apathetic concerning this game to be honest. We have 5 people left, myself, Xay, Bins, FF, and Math (aka Young Edgey).

Young hasn't done much to redeem Math's spot in my position, so right now, I'd have to say that would be my most comfortable place to vote if I absolutely had to lynch someone today.

My slot has tried numerous times to help investigate, and have provided plenty of clues and done plenty of scum hunting, I don't really understand how you could, without confbias of "Neil must be scum, so I'm going to read what he says in that light", how you could actually provide a case on me having more scum-motivation in my posts than town. The only points Bins has made previously, are null points at best. There are no points factually made, that would constitute as scum-motivated.

Bins on the other hand, has jumped from case to case, willing to listen to whoever leads and agrees with her, and without a proper ISO, I would be more than willing to say, she is far from confirmed town in my opinion.

Xay, has he even done anything in this game? I'm confused why anyone really is conf towning this slot, at all. TSO was almost as useless as Xay has been. I've seen Xay before in other games, and I don't remember Xay being this useless.

FF, as town, can benefit the town a LOT with his play style. I don't like the idea of lynching him today. As scum, from the games I've seen and read, he's not manipulative enough to necessarily be too afraid of. I'd feel better going to LyLo with this version of FF that I've seen here, if I had to. Depending on what we get from here on out, will be quite telling though.

I'm not voting anyone though, until we talk about this. There must be 1 scum left, and there's 5 people here. If we eliminate someone, scum kills someone tonight... then we're left with 3 people. 2 town and 1 scum. However, if we no kill today, scum kills tonight, we're left with 4 people. 3 town and 1 scum. While it's not opportune, I feel more comfortable with this option, because it limits the pool for me. Right now, I don't see anyone here that reads so townie, I'd be willing to listen / follow their position. Although it bothers me a hell of a lot, that TSO/Xay and Bins have been able to slide under this proverbial town aligned assumption, while doing little to literally NOTHING to deserve it.

Right now, where I'm most comfortable at is,

VOTE: No Vote

[neil1113]

Also, Fitz was the kill, correct?

Who was afraid (or would be) of Fitz being alive today? I feel like we could accurately discuss this, because nobody was really Fitz' main target so it's not like anyone could have been framed. Also considering, it's been like... multiple, multiple days and nobody has brought this up and voted as a reason for it, so if this is a frame job on somebody in particular, it's a terrible one.

P.Edit: Bins, I have no idea what the point of your post was? But if you're around, I'd love to actually discuss this game out with you.

[neil1113]

You don't like the idea of gathering your thoughts into one post, instead of 3 equally irrelevant posts?

I don't think anyone was afraid of Fitz. It's more that every single other person had someone suspecting them and Xay had done less than Fitz.

You think Fitz was cleared? I disagree, in my notes Fitz wasn't cleared by any measures.

right, this is really piss-boring.

Vote: Aronis

You're an idiot and you're scum, shut it.

What about this?

TSO has bussed before, and I'm sure would buss again. What makes this buss more a town-motivated push than a scum-motivated buss?

It's interesting you bring that up though, because the one person that definitely shouldn't be afraid of Fitz is you.

Why wouldn't I be afraid of Fitz? When I replaced in, he pushed my lynch. It wasn't until I started actually being town, that he loosened his grips. By no means, is there any proof that I was confirmed town (or even close to it) in his postings. In fact, going through his ISO, he still had somewhat of suspicions before he died of me. So you're not only mis-representing Fitz, but you've got to be doing it purposefully to try and make me look bad. Why would you lie? You can't look at his ISO, even quickly, and come out with that conclusion? Explain to me, what town-motivation is there to lie and try and frame someone to look worse than they are, when the evidence clearly does not support you?

[neil1113]

You did it again.... :/

I fail to see again how that quote, in any way, solidifies any town read on me that would be strong enough to say "He definitely town read you, you had nothing to fear with him trying to push a lynch on you."

Remember, he pushed a lynch on me, AFTER I replaced in, which means AFTER Hayato replaced out. If he did it once before, how the hell would it make any sense that I would suddenly not be afraid that he'd do it again?

That's false context. You're stretching and making something that is not there, seem like it is... why? That's not scum hunting, that's fabricating / lying to further your own agenda. That's not town-motivated. Period.

[neil1113]

Okay, he denied the fact that you were most likely scum.

And that was when he didn't know that Aronis was scum. HE READS CHANGED, DUDE. The townread on you was based on context.
I honestly don't know how to feel about arguing the fact that someone was townreading you, but it feels silly.

Don't misrep our argument as well. It's not the fact that Fitz town read or did not town read me. It's the fact that you claimed Fitz town read me so obviously, that I had "nothing to worry about" with him coming after me. That's a bold statement, especially in lieu of my idea concerning looking at Fitz's ISO to find out why he died... You tried to frame me, and accuse me, of something that is not true, that you stretched to try and make some type of case on. The only reason I'm not voting you, is that I could be over-reacting because you didn't actually place a vote on me, which makes no sense if you were trying to get me lynched. Then again, you do seem very set on voting where others vote, not necessarily where your case (or lack of) leads you...

Which makes me wonder, if others had jumped on me, if you would have? And if you would have, like I think you would have, if it's a town or scum tell. I'm thinking the latter, currently.

[neil1113]

Xay who do you have as town, and who could be scum?

Bins is one of those "I forgot why but town"

You are town

I'm leaning Niel over Young for scum

Are you fucking kidding me?

VOTE: Neil_1113

Get me out of this fucking game. I can't work with incompetent town. We deserve to fucking lose. And scum, don't deserve to fucking win. But with how we've gone so far, they will, and it's because we are so god damned pathetic.

I'm trying, I've been trying, and you would say that shit? I'm scum over Young? Fuck you.

[neil1113]

Neil, did you self vote in the newbie game where I misread you? Phone posting and lazy ATM.

I had to think about which game that was to be honest, but no. Would you like a link?

And for the rest of you, entertain me. Blah blah blah, scum flailing, etc. etc.

My question is, since you guys are so certain on not scum hunting and you'd rather just lynch between two candidates for no fucking reason, and not actually want to lynch scum (unless somehow you get lucky with the other candidate after me), how come you're not fucking voting me? Get to it, town, we're so awesome.

[neil1113]

I want Young dead before we do anything. He says he is going to read yesterday, never comes in thread to show he actually did, we go to night phase and when day breaks the only thing he has to say is that I am scum for clowning yesterday when

no one

was posting in thread at all. Hell, did he ever answer my question about who his slot sent fruit to the nights that they said they did? And where is the read through he was doing? We are only at 44 pages, that is a light bedtime read for most of us here.

tl;dr- We lynch Young today.

And people STILL FUCKING CALLED FOR MY HEAD.

Over THAT.

Are you fucking kidding me? Regardless of alignment, I'd be pissed. However, being town, it fucking pisses me off all the more. Stupid people.

Neil, a no lynch is not going to happen. I am not going into endgame with 4 people when it could have been 3.

I didn't actually think about the fact that we'd be in Ly-Lo with 4 people. But yeah if we mislynch, then scum kills and theres two people left.

Or what if we no lynch tomorrow too? That forces scum to get rid of two potential suspects. Which would leave us in Ly-Lo with 3.

Or.... we could try to lynch someone our selves and be at Ly-Lo tomorrow. Yeah I guess either way...

[neil1113]

Man, I'm not even sad if I lose this anymore. I kind of just want it out of my bookmarks section.

VOTE: Neil

UNVOTE:


cause edgey

Got her.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bins

Was wondering when scum would take my bait...

[neil1113]

I have no desire to ever play with neil1113 again, but unfortunately, he must be Town in this game.

Wait what? We've never played before and everyone is halfassing this game, so it's hardly a game to draw a consensus from... this seems very out of place.

[neil1113]

Neil, is that the only issue you have with his "analysis" of the game state and his "case" on me?

On my phone at the moment, so that's the only thing I'm going to comment on till tonight, yes. I didn't actually read thoroughly the case on you yet.

[neil1113]

@Mod

- Maybe we could get vote counts when you post so I don't have to hunt and peck to see where we are at?

This. Consider my vote with Young until we get an official vote count.

Got the poke by the way, sorry, a lot has been happening IRL and it's 4:30am here, I'm exhausted. Goodnight.

[neil1113]

VOTE: Young

....

Now we wait for Robo. I'd ask Young to spare us the wait, but I doubt he'll come on first.

Yeah we'll have to wait a bit for this I suppose. If Young is town, I have no idea where to go tomorrow to be honest. If Young is scum, oddly enough, I don't think I'd feel satisfied at all. Especially considering most of the wagon (including my vote) if not everyone who wanted to vote Young, was out of apathy and just wanting to move on, not out of actually scum hunting.

But, a win is a win I suppose.

[neil1113]

My vote on him is scum hunting. His case on me is so bad he has to be scum.

Or... Bad town?

[neil1113]

hey DJ was right c:

its funny cause its true.

Good job DJ!