Newbie 1779 | Spring | Endgame

[DogWatch]

VOTE: JustDanceWorld

because you're probably a better dancer than me

[DogWatch]

And back at you.

VOTE: aa-dono

why do you feel the need to return fire immediately on an RVS?

[DogWatch]

I am not bp

[DogWatch]

trying to gauge how overly defensive you were being

[DogWatch]

This push on me feels really fake tbh.

it does feel like a mountain made out of a molehill, but what do you think scum!grey benefits from doing it? discrediting your influence maybe?

[DogWatch]

(I mean, I realize this advice is less-than helpful for nearly half the playerlist: mhsmith has been here almost a full year, and is wise beyond said year; he was acclimated to the site in less than three months if I recall correctly, so he could very easily do my job as an IC. RC has been here for literally years and I basically consider his home site to be mafiascum, so he is no newbie. Grey is ALSO an SE this game, and he's been here a while himself. But half the game is still newbies and I wrote those posts for them.)

thank you, I'm sorta a newbie... I used to play mafia quite a bit, but it's been about a decade. Just started back up a few weeks ago. So i'm in the weird position of being a semi-veteran and a noob all at once. the game is very different now than what I'm used to. If we have specific questions or need advice, do we ask right out in the open?

[DogWatch]

@mastina
are you suggesting oldwino's vote was merely an OMGUS? and if so, is that necessarily a scum read?

[DogWatch]

@mastina you're scum reading me but you're not saying why. Throw me a bone here?

[DogWatch]

Why is everyone's role displayed below their name? Doesn't that make this game really easy for town to win?

Those are just forum user ranks based on post count, not our roles.

[DogWatch]

Why is everyone's role displayed below their name? Doesn't that make this game really easy for town to win?

Those are just forum user ranks based on post count, not our roles.

Spoilsport.

Why needlessly confuse a new player?

[DogWatch]

ok, because you thought that might give us some info about how he views mafia strategy? Or because you thought it was humorous?

[DogWatch]

lol true, fair enough
sorry to rain on your partay

[DogWatch]

oldwino feels genuine to me, and I don't really understand mastina's vote on him any more than her vote on me

maaaaaybe she thinks my brief interaction with wino on page 1 was a case of noob scum distancing but that isn't the case, I was putting a little pressure on him to gauge reactions

[DogWatch]

Also not understanding how two people with zero posts could look more town to her than a player she reads as null. She says they have a higher chance of being town, but how? Is that just a cheeky comment?

[DogWatch]

I joined this game to take advantage of the coaching help, but so far (and I know it's super early) I'm baffled by the IC's posts. Unless this is her ploy to make us think on our feet, but I don't know if that's how she coaches. Either way I'm not very confident in her ability to help so far.

VOTE: mastina

[DogWatch]

oldwino feels genuine to me, and I don't really understand mastina's vote on him any more than her vote on me

maaaaaybe she thinks my brief interaction with wino on page 1 was a case of noob scum distancing but that isn't the case, I was putting a little pressure on him to gauge reactions

And by 'vote on me' I mean her scum read of me, sorry for typo

[DogWatch]

What is lynch bait?

A player who plays in a way that makes everyone (or at least a bunch of people) want to lynch him/her.

I always took "lynchbait" to mean a scapegoat the mafia is trying to push everyone else to lynch, or at least a lesser skilled player that is often known for being in such a position. Is that not necessarily accurate?

[DogWatch]

And in that fight, I like your responses; I don't hate Grey's responses; I do have a distaste for oldwino and DogWatch's responses.

Agreed on RC's responses, I'm much less certain on Grey, and you're really gonna have to explain what in particular OW/DW are doing to ping you there. I can maybe see the idea that OW was sitting out the fight as scum (though I don't especially see how you distinguish that from newb town who doesn't know what to do in that kind of situation), but you haven't discussed your DW read at all other than stating that it exists, and nothing in her responses seems to ping me.

I also thought it was odd that mastina acknowledges the RC/Grey battle as the main attraction of the thread so far, yet she chooses to scum read two people on the sidelines of that battle instead. Now, that's not necessarily contradictory; she could be viewing RC vs Grey as town vs town, but how she's gleaming scum reads from the sidelines I don't know. She seems to be working off pure hunch, which again doesn't seem like she's setting a great example.

I have generally liked and agreed with smith's posts so far. Townreading him. I see him making fair and pro-town observations.

[DogWatch]

With respect, I prefer to wait until everyone has weighed in with opinions. And even then, to wait until everyone has weighed in to a satisfactory amount, as deemed so by me.
There's multiple reasons for this. Care to guess them?
And for that matter, care to guess

why

I am scumreading you?

Shot in the dark here. If you're town you don't want to gift possible firepower to potential scum who haven't contributed yet. You want to gauge their reads and playstyle first.

As for why you're scumreading me, you think my interactions with oldwino indicate some kind of "busy work" or have a LAMIST flavor. I can't think of anything else that could be the case.

Normally, I would respond to this with a heavy dosage of snark.
You're young to the site though, so I don't want to scare you away with that level of obstructionism (even though this is a fair warning, you're gonna need to get used to that), so instead I'll respond sincerely:

Was this necessary? "I would normally be mean to you, but I'll have pity on you this time" is how this comes across. I don't think this quote has anything to do with your alignment, but it doesn't really make you a pleasant player to be around. Really not trying to make enemies with you here, but I WILL be blunt with you about what I think. Anyway, back to gameplay:

It would be helpful for you if you are town to reread my IC post, along with my answers.

Actually, I DID read your answer post (I even visited your blog), but I will admit I had skimmed the first post and missed the part where you actually wanted us to answer them ourselves. That's my own oversight, I apologize. Here are my answers:

1. Overall experience: I played on a small site about a decade ago, roughly.
2. How past games played out: Fast paced, focused more on power roles and night decisions/analysis, less endless daytime squabbling, more quirky gimmicks and themes, most games are finished within two weeks. Felt more like text-based video games than constant arguing over minute details.
3. Personal quirks: I see the conspiracy before I see occam's razor. I wrestle with WIFOM too much. I'm rarely the first to spot scum behavior, so often I look like a wagon hopper.
4. How I see mafia: Dunno really, it's a little more psychological here; I'm used to an almost RPG-like feel. Not entirely sure how to answer this at the moment (it's late, I'm tired.)
5. How I approach the game: I'm not typically a strong town leader making big plays and constructing castles of logic. I'm more of a supporting player. Weakness would be sheeping votes at times. It's like I need other's approval before I attack someone and I want to fix this, be more bold, etc.
6. Expecting from this game: Really just wanted a casual game to practice in and be able to ask questions and be honest about my mistakes without necessarily being lynched right away for them.
7. Expecting from the site: I'd like to find games that are more along the lines of what I'm used to.

As for what you're wanting me to notice in your answers, I'll need to go back and scrutinize again; not sure exactly what I missed in relation to what's happened in this game. Will do so in the morning.

[DogWatch]

(may I call you 'Dog,' I like dogs).

Haha, sure

Keeping my vote on Mastina, of course. And that's not UMGUS. That would be too naive. It's because she's voted me for two very weak, I think contrived, reasons, 1) I voted AA after AA voted me, as a fun RVS vote, maybe OMGUS but so what, and 2) I asked if RC and Grey's back and forth was from a previous game, if they had history, because it seemed odd, out of proportion, to the context of this game when the banter started. Two very simple, null posts on my part. So I think maybe she's trying to lynch bait me (a term I didn't hear in my first game).

Her vote on you quoted your RVS vote post. What I wonder is whether or not THAT was the sole post that made her vote you, or if it was some combination of your other posts after. I can't imagine that your RVS was the only reason, but she claims her scum read of you had nothing to do with your interaction with the Grey vs Radiant thing. My best guess is that she's reading something out of post #21. She thinks you're trying too hard to make the vote look random, thereby disguising any OMGUS'ing. I wouldn't agree with that; I think you're genuine (or a great actor if you're scum).

It's that cocktail, dinner and TV time (and I'm cooking tonight).

lol, is this a character you're playing? Serious question, not a game thing. I'm entertained by the image of an elderly drunk playing mafia.

[DogWatch]

Tangent: "hunch" is, when refined, better than all the analysis in the world. I could go on all day about the theory behind this, but it wouldn't exactly be productive in the game proper. (I'm also considering writing an article about it. I've

sort-of

done so before, but a more updated version would be useful to have as a reference.) Suffice to say, however--yes, I do work a lot off of hunches.

The game of mafia is a game of socializing. A social game involves psychology. Psychology involves educated guesses: "hunches", as it were. So the game of mafia is essentially, hunches layered on top of hunches. Assumptions on assumptions, guesses on guesses. You'll quickly find there is no objective standard for finding scum; there is no 'tell' that works, there is no strategy which works. It's mostly subjective.

I'm usually reprimanded when I FOS or vote based on my hunches. If I don't give an original, groundbreaking, graduate-level thesis on my suspicions, it seems the players on this site immediately view me as sheepy or scummy or whatever else. I'm exaggerating of course, but I have problems attacking based on hunches. When the attack is questioned and I don't have a satisfying answer, it kills my credibility. Yet you seem to be championing the whole concept here and that's interesting.

I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, but it's late here and I need to get some sleep. Will try to address the rest soon as I can.

[DogWatch]

Dogwatch changed her avatar to look more innocent.

Such a scum tactic.

surely you jest

I'm surprised you didn't say "THAT'S A PICTURE OF A CAT. HER NAME IS DOG. LYNCH HER."

[DogWatch]

Gut (there's that word again) tells me there's little chance Mastina and Ulti are scumbuddies. If Mastina is scum, then she's coaching behind the scenes, and there's no way Ulti would come up with such a terrible vote (on his own scumbuddy no less) if they're conversing outside this thread.

That leaves the possibilities that Mastina is actually town and Ulti is scum, or they're both town and Ulti is barking up the wrong tree.

Gut insists Ulti just doesn't know what he's doing yet (says a lot coming from me) and sheeped a bit on those of us who did vote Mastina.

I still need to sort through the novels Mastina has posted in this thread (busy weekend, haven't been keeping up) but for right now, my vote stays on her. Not joining the Ulti wagon yet.

[DogWatch]

I've never heard of scum not being able to chat during day phases. Nevermind on that point then.

[DogWatch]

I'm telling you to read my opening two posts with a critical eye. While they were typed before I had received an alignment, they are not null. That might seem like an impossibility to you--how can a post typed before I received an alignment possibly be an indicator of my alignment? But that's why I'm asking you to view my posts and really, really

think

about them. There's not a contradiction between my statements of it being alignment-indicative and being typed before I got an alignment. Both halves are relevant to the game, containing an answer you're seeking in my posting.

My best guess is that it's something to do with this in relation to the Grey/Radiant spat earlier:

As town, I'll try to defuse heated debates I feel are counterproductive, but if I feel they could be useful, I'll let them continue and weigh in only when I feel it gives something useful. (Often, one leads to another.)

As scum, I'll direct the spotlight so that town are fighting town. I'll still give commentary on it, just like as town, but I won't try to defuse town-town debates, because I need town to lynch town.

[DogWatch]

If not, then I give up on this goose chase you've sent me on.

[DogWatch]

And if so, I really don't see you trying to diffuse anything. You largely didn't enter that argument at all, preferring to talk about your reads and other odds and ends. So, unless I'm missing something big (and it's always possible that I am), that points to your scum self.

[DogWatch]

I feel like this is my opportunity to utilize what mastina told us about discerning town-town arguments from town-scum arguments, but I'm blowing that opportunity because I can't even follow the damn argument.

[DogWatch]

So far I do think smith simply made an honest mistake when reviewing grey's meta. I don't see it as a misrep, or at least an intentional one.

Grey's weird "reason it's wrong and reason it's right" thing felt off to me. Overall his responses sound more manufactured to me, but I think that's kind of his grandiose style of posting, for lack of a better word.

[DogWatch]

You type like a Bond villain.

[DogWatch]

There's a certain pompous precision to it.

Anyway, in post 158 you state smith seems town to you. But after a supposed misrep about your meta, you vote him. Was this your first suspicion of him all game? Was there any progress to it or just a sudden jump?

[DogWatch]

Are you just as detail-oriented? You've been in two big spats already which both went on for a while. Are you naturally argumentative about details?

[DogWatch]

That wasn't an accusatory tone, just a curiosity.

[DogWatch]

And hard to sort in a game of mafia.

[DogWatch]

You can remove your spite vote, Dr. No.

[DogWatch]

Grey, for those of us having a hard time following this, how does your admission to bussing relate to 332 where you say you don't bus? I know you were trying to make a point but it doesn't look like either smith or myself are getting it.

[DogWatch]

Grey, for those of us having a hard time following this, how does your admission to bussing relate to 332 where you say you don't bus? I know you were trying to make a point but it doesn't look like either smith or myself are getting it.

As a general rule, I don't bus.

However, in that game, I was pretty much boxed into bussing because of reads I formulated as town that I was locked into once I became scum.

So while it was technically a bus, it didn't start out as the intention to sacrifice my team when I developed the scumread.

Clear as mud?

Oh, so the Judas role created that situation? I missed that.

[DogWatch]

I find myself mostly getting what Grey is trying to do here (I think) but I don't see smith as instant scum for disagreeing with him or misinterpreting.

[DogWatch]

No, my beef with you, Smith, is that you make assumptions about my meta with no actual knowledge of it.

As I have amply demonstrated.

Is that necessarily scummy?

[DogWatch]

Basically: Grey was pushing points with the attempt to do something with them and was visibly unsettled at the strong resistance to these points. That's something I typically think of as town since it's hard to fake as scum. mhsmith was bringing up points and not doing much with them aside from using them to counter Grey's points. This is an attitude I tend to associate more with scum.

That's interesting, because my initial read gave me the opposite impression. I sympathized with smith's side of the argument because he'd made what I interpreted as an honest mistake, and neither of us really grasped what Grey was trying to do with his past game example. It's true smith was mostly countering, but I could see town doing that if they felt they were being antagonized. And because I saw the argument about meta as largely unhelpful to the game, I felt Grey's push to use the argument to vote smith was just that: antagonistic.

[DogWatch]

@oldwino If you think Mastina and ulti are a scumteam, why do you think Mastina has barely mentioned the ulti wagon? She DID ask you what you thought of smith's vote on ulti, but the focus there was more on smith than who he voted for. Do you think she attempted to sway the wagon away from ulti in a case of mama-bearing him? And how does ulti's vote on mastina play into this?

[DogWatch]

I think the whole concept of an IC is awkward. How am I supposed to confidently learn from someone who might be actively working against me?

This doesn't even feel like a newbie game anyway. Half the players are experienced and only two newbies are trying to contribute, oldwino and myself. Not very fun, not very helpful.

[DogWatch]

And if so, I really don't see you trying to diffuse anything. You largely didn't enter that argument at all, preferring to talk about your reads and other odds and ends. So, unless I'm missing something big (and it's always possible that I am), that points to your scum self.

@mastina Are you going to address this?

[DogWatch]

@mastina Are you going to address this?

I did.

No, you skipped the part where I read all that and STILL called you scum.

[DogWatch]

Here are my current reads.

Icy: I believe the BP claim, so I'm 99% on him being town.

Smith: I can't take credit for this observation, but pieg brought up something that caught my eye. Smith's 195 seems like a perspective slip, as if he KNOWS Grey is town and wants to subtly hint that their argument was town vs town all along.

Grey: Hard to sort, but I think he has a slightly better chance at being town than smith, given what I wrote above.

Mastina: Although she has been my biggest scum read so far, I'm trying to make sense of her interactions with smith. She seems to scrutinize him quite a bit, so IF smith is scum, my gut says they aren't scum together.

Radiant: Town due to post 12.

oldwino: I still lean town. He sits on fences a lot, but much like myself, I think that stems more from being a little unsure of his reads and not as confident about his own gameplay as he would like. I'm toying with the idea that he's being a really good actor though.

Others: Null

I'm going to shake this up a bit. VOTE: mhsmith0

[DogWatch]

I was referring to the argument on March 1.

[DogWatch]

sorry all, had some personal stuff going on the past couple days... my head's not really in the game right now but I'm going to try to see it through.

give me a bit to try and catch up

[DogWatch]

The only people who haven't had the opportunity to cc are me and mastina (because we haven't posted since he claimed) so unless SHE is the cc, then I think Darklyn is telling the truth. If she doesn't cc in her first post back, Dark is cleared.

[DogWatch]

well unless he's RB but that would be quite a gamble

[DogWatch]

When you say Smith hasn't been influencing the lynch, what exactly do you mean? I feel like it's something I subconsciously picked up on, but couldn't put into words.

[DogWatch]

mhsmith
DogWatch
oldwino.

I really think scum are in here and we should lynch within here.

If I had to put money on it, my gut says it's a smith/wino team. I ISO'd smith and ctrl-F'd "oldwino" and many of their interactions feel like a mama bear/baby relationship to me. Smith never pokes too hard at wino, and on a few occasions early on, he seems to subtly deflect attention from wino, reinforcing the posts where other players make town reads of wino. It's just a general vibe I got, hard to explain. I'm sure smith will come along shortly to call me crazy and unreasonable.

So I know I'm going out on a limb here, and I could very well be wrong, but with ~20 hours for us to make a lynch and no real wagon at the moment, I would invite all to lynch either smith or wino. We do need a lynch today.

[DogWatch]

No time to respond entirely (I play on breaks at work) but I will say that my last post had nothing to do with my name being on mastina's short list. I know it looks like me trying to deflect attention, but I believe I'm widely town read here and I'm not worried about being lynched. We're running out of time so I tried to find a point of agreement with mastina, and when I looked at the rest of her short list, it dawned on me there might be a possible connection between you two. I wouldn't typically try to find scum buddies before at least one flip but a)time's running out, and b)I'm in this newbie game to make new plays and learn from the consequences. So, it's just what I saw.

Wino, would you rather no lynch than pick a side?

[DogWatch]

Mastina, why is it that I can only be scum if Alisae is scum? If you explained that already, kindly quote it because I've only been able to briefly skim the past couple pages. Also not understanding how all your assumptions hinge on Grey!town.

[DogWatch]

VOTE: lemonater

- scummy slot (ulti)
- 948 feels fake
- mastina's latest walls have swayed me in believing it's likely alisae/lemonater

[DogWatch]

If you believe that scum team then why not vote with Dark/Mastina?

Slightly more confident in the lemon slot being scum than alisae.

There's also something to be said for the ulti/pieg/lemon slot being replaced AGAIN.

[DogWatch]

alright, i'll switch it... i do think we learn more from an alisae flip

VOTE: alisae

[DogWatch]

That last sentence makes it sound like you know Ali is going to be the lynch.

[DogWatch]

do we actually know icy was attacked? could there have been no night action at all?

[DogWatch]

what is the vote count? alisae at L-1 and mastina at L-2?

so lost in this game dammit

[DogWatch]

UNVOTE: alisae

removing pressure because i'm starting to view mastina as scummy like i did before

[DogWatch]

unsure what to do with chris.... i like his posts so far, but he's in my biggest scum slot.

[DogWatch]

whatever

VOTE: mastina

best wishes to kitty though

[DogWatch]

let's see a mastina claim before anyone hammers

[DogWatch]

sorry, completely forgot what game i was in, I have too much going on

cant keep up anymore

thinking of replacing out

[DogWatch]

actually considering quitting mafia period, all it does is add stress to my life. It's not fun anymore.

and most of this community is completely toxic anyway... seriously some of the worst human beings ive ever interacted with

[DogWatch]

make one mistake and you're treated like a retard
in a newbie game of all things

a newbie game FILLED WITH EXPERIENCED PLAYERS

[DogWatch]

i managed to forget we're in a game in which the roles are known, i'd say that's a mistake

[DogWatch]

UNVOTE: mastina
until I can sort through these last couple pages

[DogWatch]

A few scattered thoughts. Sorry I don't have much of a clear narrative in this game, which is what Chris is asking me for.

- I cautiously liked mastina's 1246 when I read it, although I was also making the assumption here that Mastina NEVER buses despite teaching others it's a bad thing to do. It wouldn't be the first time mastina has instructed someone (me in this game actually) to do as she SAYS, not as she DOES. So there's that.

- She also says it's not POSSIBLE for her to be on a scumteam in this game. But that's an exaggeration. She COULD be scum with ThinkBig based on her earlier logic. So, that's shaky, but hang on..

- I liked the end of that post. It really does look as though scum is driving the wagon. But Icy brings up a good point in 1261. Two of the votes are clearly town. The other two are possible scum, but do we really think Alisae would make it so obvious he jumped his scumbuddy's wagon? I dunno.


So, it's sounding like the two most likely scum pairings are:

Mastina/ThinkBig
Alisae/Chris

I'm a painfully indecisive player, as you might have noticed, and I flip back and forth a lot. I started this game scumreading mastina, and was later swayed by her lengthy explanations which at least SEEMED legit to a newbie like me who has little time to investigate just how true they really are.

And I can say I'm still not convinced either way. I need to break down Chris's 1255.

[DogWatch]

I know town players don't do NKA.

Why?

[DogWatch]

Eh, just tried going through Chris's recent posts. To be honest, I had a hard time really following all of it but I'm getting a gut feeling that mastina is using lots of weaselly words and reasoning to make herself sound correct, and that seems to be Chris's main point. I like Chris's tone more, but I'm not SOLD either way still.

I can picture both of them being town and scum at the same time.

Unless one of them makes a spectacular mistake (unlikely), I feel like I'm just going to keep going back and forth on this.

@mastina, can you walk me through again why a scum team with you on it wouldn't kill Darklyn?

[DogWatch]

Why do you see a mastina/wino team over mastina/TB?

[DogWatch]

I'm close to voting mastina again but wanted to at least hear her next batch of responses.

[DogWatch]

I still think TB is mostly lurking, keeping his head down, and is now trying to turn the tables on me. But, I won't stay on his wagon for much longer if I don't get any more support. Is there any support out there for a Grey/TB wagon?

I don't see all the TB content mastina is referring to either. But who do you think we learn more from? A TB flip or a mastina flip?

[DogWatch]

Would Alisae pull Blawb off of me and onto TB if he (alisae) was scum? Hunch says no, unless he thinks TB is the easier mislynch.

VOTE: TB

Very interested to see mastina's response to a TB wagon with real momentum. If they are in fact scum together, will she bus? Doubt it. She wrote the book on that.

[DogWatch]

I'm not moving off DogWatch. Bad vibes on bad vibes.

no one's going to join you on this

vote someone instead who might actually be scum

[DogWatch]

@ Mod/PP

- I can't tell from the D1 opening if there was any opportunity for pregame chatting between scum. Looks to me like the you didn't allow time for that, but I don't know if scum can chat while you were waiting for the required number of players to confirm. Can and will you clarify if scum had an opportunity for pregame chat and coaching? Thanks.

Town slip.

Though in my experience, there is usually a small window of time to chat pre game. Not sure if they did have a chance or not in this game.

This isn't necessarily a town slip at all. Oldwino!scum could very well be copying my own town slip from Day 1, hoping to gain similar town reads from everyone else.

I'm not saying I think that's actually what's happening, but you can't confidently call this a town slip in my opinion.

[DogWatch]

Still staying on DogWatch, sorry guys. We all mostly agree that DW is scummy; the only argument here is that we might be mistaking scuminess for newb-ness. I don't like that argument, because I still think that DW's main focus is appearing town - more so than helping the town. Even newer players would have the tone of wanting to Lynch someone / help the town, but I'm really not seeing that in DW.

You are almost certainly tonight's kill. Do you think this is the best use of your time?

Flip me and lose a townie. And you'll learn almost nothing from it.

[DogWatch]

I really don't see a strong case on TB/Grey, can one or all of you state you case, please.

I'm not even 90% sure Grey/TB is scum, but I've been highly suspicious of the slot from early in the game and TB hasn't done anything to lessen that suspicion. His lack of meaningful posts seems like hiding to me.

Personally, I wasn't scum-reading the slot when Grey had it (I find him extremely difficult to read period), but I get the same vibe from TB as you do.

If not at least one of TB and mastina are scum, I'll eat my socks. They may not necessarily be scum together, but I feel strongly that at least one of them is.

[DogWatch]

We need two of Chris, Icy, or Blawb. Come on.

Seriously doubt you'll see mastina vote TB, and my hunch is because she'd have to bus.

[DogWatch]

TB simply posting "town slip" beneath it just looks fake to me somehow, like something that would come from a scum perspective. Which brings me to a question for the more experienced: are town slips more commonly noticed by town or by scum?

[DogWatch]

OK, whatever.

Chris and Icy, can we count on your votes?

[DogWatch]

well I'm definitely not against a mastina lynch

talk to me more about mastina/oldwino.... i have been quietly toying with that idea but couldn't articulate it

[DogWatch]

On the other hand, if oldwino is scum with mastina, he's been bussing her pretty hard since the beginning of the game, often listing her as his biggest scum read. I think he had her voted most of Day 1 too. I don't really see this as something scum would do, even newb scum.

On the third hand, maybe newb scum WOULD do that, and during the night phase mastina told him to knock it off, and therefore he starts reading TB as scum.

I dunno, it's all pretty wifom.

[DogWatch]

Town Mastina has sure been quiet while one of her strongest town leads walks the Mafia green mile.

Mastina explicitly stated she wouldn't help OR hinder the TB wagon. If TB is her strongest town read, I wouldn't expect this kind of apathy.

[DogWatch]

Going back to my original vote. Oldwino, jump back on with me.

VOTE: mastina

[DogWatch]

@ Mastina, Your past few posts have been some of your best. But your style of not posting for long periods of time, then posting walls, often using complex logic that I cannot follow, that I'm sure others cannot follow, doesn't help town.

Tend to agree. Due to my general lack of time to play, I can't follow these extraordinarily long posts very well, and I fear I'm missing valuable nuggets of info by skimming them. That's mostly my own fault, but my constructive criticism to mastina would be to work on becoming more concise. I'm naturally a verbose rambler myself, but I don't do it in mafia.

[DogWatch]

TB/Wino/Dog for me tomorrow right now, but out of the three I'd rather have TB. Have to see if TB actually posts anything good, or the flip/nk tells us anything fun, before I know where I'm going to push the most tomorrow.

Like.

I can't describe how obviously this is scum who fucking KNOWS I'm flipping town.

Look at him.
He's literally assuming I am flipping town here.
If he were thinking I were actually scum, then he would need to find my scumbuddy. But here, he is indicating we need to find two scum, we need to find a scumteam, because he fucking knows I'm flipping town.

How do you read this as him looking for two scum? I interpreted it as he thinks your scum buddy is one of the three.

[DogWatch]

I think scum divided their votes between Mastina and ThinkBig yesterday to ensure at least one of them would be off the wagon.

Here are the possible scum teams, removing the confirmed Icy and myself from the equation:

Chris - oldwino
Chris - ThinkBig
Chris - Alisae
ThinkBig - Alisae
ThinkBig - oldwino
Alisae - oldwino

I no longer feel confident that ThinkBig is scum. He seemed to be the favorite fall-back lynch of pretty much everyone yesterday. So I will cross out the teams that include him.

Chris - oldwino
Chris - Alisae
Alisae - oldwino

I have been strongly town reading oldwino all game. I reserve the idea that he might be a very good actor, but he's also a newbie and I just don't see that to be the case. That leaves one team.

Chris - Alisae

[DogWatch]

In light of mastina's flip, many of Chris's posts look like serious attempts to discredit her. I also think he was reluctant to read me as obvtown early on because he wanted to set me up as lynchbait later.

I see that Icy and oldwino are preferring an Alisae lynch at this point. I'll go either way. Talk to me.

[DogWatch]

TB, which would you rather lynch right now?

Icy, are you saying you're 80% on Chris being scum?

[DogWatch]

OK, that means everyone remaining except Chris has been openly willing to vote Alisae.

I'm going to go ahead and cast my vote, since I have some RL things going on later today and may not be able to sign in again for a while. If this is truly the scum team, then it will take all four of us to vote in sync and I do NOT want a no-lynch.

VOTE: Alisae

[DogWatch]

@oldwino Think about it this way.

We were all pretty sure the Day 2 lynch would be either mastina or ThinkBig. No one else was in any real danger. Scum knew that. As the day progressed they were able to split up and anchor both wagons. Chris parked on mastina and continued attacking her, hoping the wagon would build. Meanwhile, Alisae remained mostly on the ThinkBig wagon (they were briefly together on mastina) but never hammered. This way, they were able to maintain pressure on both wagons, and when the victim flipped, at least one of their names would be in the clear. Simple, but effective in such a small game.

Take another look at how Alisae threatens the hammer but gives mastina last minute mercy. Do you think that's a little fishy in light of what we know now?

[DogWatch]

Chris's sudden progression from town!Ali to scum!Ali feels ungenuine, like it's a last ditch attempt to distance himself from a scum buddy who he knows is about to be lynched. That might seem too obvious, but what else is he plausibly going to do? Notice how he hints at the turn by asking Icy "you still think it's Alisae?" and soon after saying "I'm getting scared it's Ali." It's like he's planting little seeds to show that he really did have a legitimate progression in his change of opinion. But something about it feels fake to me.

It does look fishy that Chris and Ali have been fairly buddy-buddy ever since Chris replaced in, but have separated the moment I named them as the scum team.

We now have Chris intending to vote Alisae, and Alisae calling Chris out for scum-claiming.

But why doesn't Alisae vote Chris then?

Why stay on ThinkBig? He claims it "doesn't matter" but it does. If you're town, do you want to win this or not? It's just appeal to emotion. He's trying to look like defeated town who no longer cares in the hopes we'll move our attention elsewhere.

[DogWatch]

Hey Chris, why do you TR me?

RC day 1, your scumhunting of Grey, overall tone,

and your similar to the last game where you were town.

Ali was way more undecided and nervy in our last game (where he was town),

here he doesn't feel the same and his tone is way different.

He calls me scum, but no vote, and no appeals to others like I'd expect from a town slot. In fact the only "scumhunting" the slot has done was on Grey, despite Mastina and Icy (both confTown at this stage) reading that slot as town.

Explain this, because it looks like a blatant contradiction in your assessment of Alisae.

[DogWatch]

It looks to me like Chris is painting himself into a corner. If the Alisae lynch goes through and he flips scum, where does Chris realistically go from there? He town reads everyone else in the game.

He won't vote Icy obviously.

He feels confident that wino is town. Same with me.

The only other option is TB, but right now Chris' reasons for voting Alisae involve Icy's opinion of TB, as well as Alisae's push on TB. Kind of awkward to find Alisae's push on TB suspicious if they're scum together.

It's Chris and Alisae, folks.

[DogWatch]

Yep, it's gotta be. An Alisae scum flip won't change Chris's opinions about oldwino or myself in any realistic way, and his whole case against intending to vote Alisae right now centers around his assumption that TB is town.

Chris is in a VERY awkward spot. He will have to perform some incredible mental gymnastics tomorrow to convince anyone that TB is scum.

[DogWatch]

Well, I got one of you at least. I was DAMN SURE of my last few posts. Like, I'd never felt that level of clarity in a game. Oh well, this is my last game anyway.

For the record, my town slip early on was completely manufactured. I laughed every time someone brought it up, especially those who said I couldn't have come up with it on my own!

[DogWatch]

AND I WAS RIGHT! SCUM DIDN'T SUBMIT A NIGHT ACTION.

[DogWatch]

I was so happy I'd caught the scum team that I actually thought about entering some more games. But alas...

[DogWatch]

I was sure someone would have slowed down the wagon seeing as it was MYLO, but it jsut kept building for us. .

I was seriously considering switching my vote to you but then TB came along just at the right time.

[DogWatch]

I had a hard time following anything mastina was saying/teaching, and the whole time I thought it was because I just wasn't smart enough at mafia. It looks like none of you really understood her either.

[DogWatch]

In the event that I do play again, are there any obvious things I could do better? I played like complete shit early on in this game, and was never really correct about anything except Chris toward the end.

[DogWatch]

@oldwino Thanks for the kind words. I hope you continue to play here. Your personality is much needed on these boards; most people here can't be quite so calm and respectful, and I think you offer positivity and maturity most of these players sorely lack. Maybe you're a little TOO cautious and casual in your play, but I don't really blame you for that. I might end up playing a little more actually; maybe see you around.

@alisae Really sorry for reading you so badly.

@Grey You owe me a signature quote! I didn't forget!

@mastina I'd be happy to read your thoughts on the game. I tried to carry your torch after I helped mislynch you, but it just wasn't enough. Sorry for getting you so wrong.