Mini Normal 1908 - In The Web (Game Over)

[MortFeld]

VOTE: Gamma

L-3

[MortFeld]

I doubt any of us have intentions of a quick-lynch.

Why not? He's at L-2, say someone puts him to L-1, do you unvote? Would you expect everyone else on the wagon to unvote?

[MortFeld]

So you are comfortable enough with him being at L-2 to put him there, but so uncomfortable with him being at L-1 that you'd want potentially multiple people to unvote were he at L-1.

That is odd.

[MortFeld]

I'm thinking all three of us are town.
UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald
VOTE: TwoFace

You arrived there quickly

and why tf?

[MortFeld]

Why tf not?

Doesn't feel like scum. Doesn't feel particularly like town either but.

[MortFeld]

Not liking his responses here. It looks like he's just looking for things to attack.

This would imply something I've said is invalid?

[MortFeld]

40 he means GE is a townread.

[MortFeld]

Not liking his responses here. It looks like he's just looking for things to attack.

This would imply something I've said is invalid?

Not quite. In this instance, fishing for something you can incriminate me with. I'm starting to feel it too.

I see. Well, I am doing that, sort of? But I have to be honest and say you do feel town.

[MortFeld]

cool seems like Transcend and I are both town again

[MortFeld]

Yoshi 45 town

GE 50 call it out for being scum indicative, or just call it out for being wrong?

Titus 68 icky pingy question mark

Mario 69 townish maybe?

GE 70 just OMGUS or?

GE 79 bad post

GE 82 why do you think he's faking?

Transcend 8789 Transcend what the f?

GE 95 coaching Transcend, discrediting Transcend's push, not giving own opinion on Hikari. not good

Transcend 96 what does wk mean

Transcend 97 Barleycorn is dead from shame. unless I want to play a shitposty game then he will ruin another game for town.

Transcend 99 agreeish

GE is better vote.

GE 107 why are you gladiating me and Yoshi?

[MortFeld]

Lol I'm not gladiating but I kinda thought about the role when I made the post so lol

Ok, how about

Why are you gladiating me and Yoshi, in a manner of speaking?

[MortFeld]

I was responding to Hikari/Transcend, and since I know I'm town I wrote it as BYF vs Mort

but why do you think the idea of like, '1 scum in {X, Y, Z}' at this stage is particularly valid, or worth responding to? especially since you're X.

[MortFeld]

I was just stating who I suspected more: not saying "one in this set is scum".

And I am still wondering why.

Like what scumhunting purpose does going "Eh between this person who's not being wagoned and this other person not being wagoned I'd rather vote the first one" serve?

[MortFeld]

I was just stating who I suspected more: not saying "one in this set is scum".

And I am still wondering why.

Like what scumhunting purpose does going "Eh between this person who's not being wagoned and this other person not being wagoned I'd rather vote the first one" serve?

It let's people know my reads and puts pressure on the one more scumread.

But it doesn't let people know your reads. Like do you scumread me and Yoshi? Just me? Neither of us but a weaker townread on me?

I know I'm going in hard on this it's because I'm very annoyed at your 110 masquerading as an actual response to my 109

[MortFeld]

Yoshi 45 town

Why does this make Yoshi town in any way?

Feels like real paranoia.

[MortFeld]

Paranoia is inherently town? If he was scum, he'd be worried about you wanting to incriminate him too, wouldn't he?

Yeah. He wouldn't be worried about me being scum, but that's not present in 45.

And maybe it's just my scumread on him, but I saw it more as him being "convinced" so that he would have a legitimate reason to call you scum at any point in the future.

I mean you acknowledge the confbias but it does make senseish from that viewpoint.

[MortFeld]

I don't think being worried about being incriminated by scum it inherently scummy, however page 2 is just way too early for that. "Coincidentally", Titus pointed out 7 posts earlier that Mort was also just looking for things to attack... I just wonder whether actually got two scum right there or it's actually too good to be true.

The two scum being me and Yoshi? That doesn't make sense. Actually this whole post doesn't make sense. What is the relevance of Titus' (correct) observation that I was just looking for things to attack?

[MortFeld]

I think Hikari is town, Transcend

Hikari you misunderstood the first part of my 132. There's a specific towntell that I was saying was not present.

Ah ty for explain MMM.

[MortFeld]

98 is missing Titus

[MortFeld]

I think Hikari is town, Transcend

Hikari you misunderstood the first part of my 132. There's a specific towntell that I was saying was not present.

Ah ty for explain MMM.

Wait, can we back up for a second. I'm not sure what towntell you are talking about. Really sorry, but could you please explain once more why you think Yoshi is town?

I thought he was town because his paranoia felt real. But you pointed out that scum can have genuine paranoia too. I don't completely agree, I think paranoia is different from just fear. But the type of paranoia that is hard for scum to replicate is absent from Yoshi's 45. So the townread is weak.

The point about scum not being paranoid that someone else is scum was like, a poorly fleshed out version of the above.

98 is missing Titus

That's because I don't feel like Titus was part of the interaction proper. The interaction was spawned by the comment Titus made, but she never actually participated in it, as near as I can tell.

Yeah I wasn't trying to shade you, just noticing.

[MortFeld]

Transcend you still think scum!Hikari?

[MortFeld]

Not any strong reason. It does feel like they're trying honestly to interact with me in a way that's not like, 'I need to convince this person of something' or 'I need to manipulate this person' but more 'I want to share my ideas with this person and learn about theirs.' I admit a few of their posts are like, very tryhardy and the Yoshi vote is bad. But it's just a feeling.

[MortFeld]

(not ignoring anyone, I try not to actually play the game when I'm at work even if I'm reading)

Hikari, do you like playing as town or scum more?

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Ircher, do you think Transcend is scum?

[MortFeld]

Got it

[MortFeld]

(not ignoring anyone, I try not to actually play the game when I'm at work even if I'm reading)

Hikari, do you like playing as town or scum more?

I'll field this quickly as I walk to class.

I love playing town and hate playing scum. I really don't enjoy deceiving people, but I've got no choice in that role. The fun for me is in trying to solve the mystery. That said, I think I play pretty good scum, based on my experience with it in Mafia and other deception games.

Ya based on what you've said I'd be very surprised if this were not the case.

[MortFeld]

GE is scum.

[MortFeld]

Reasons I've already said, and 235 is
1. Useless
2. Scummy

Scummy because it feels like the primacy of concepts:
town!TF
And
TF is a double voter

Is reversed.

[MortFeld]

Feels like you decided TF was town before you saw he was a doublevoter.

That is sort of what I mean in 238 but what I said in 238 is more accurate.

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Primacy was the wrong word idk what the right one is. Ordering I guess?

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Feels like you decided TF was town before you saw he was a doublevoter.

That is sort of what I mean in 238 but what I said in 238 is more accurate.

That's complete bullshit. What gives you that idea?

The tone of "ok doublevoter? he is town." It is very lazy. There is no curiosity, no skepticism, which is not mirroring my own thoughts? Like you're basically treating him as conftown which, if he's scum, and him being scum is theoretically possible, radically changes how he has to interact with you. It makes more sense for someone to have this viewpoint if they're scum. Earning potential town cred from TF (though knowing him this is unlikely) and it would be a very easy way to justify having the knowledge that TF is town, which is what I was getting at.

[MortFeld]

i already gave my reasons

Posting a lot but doing nothing?

Maybe I'm being duped. But I feel like Hikari is trying to solve this game. When I get off work I'll see if I can show places where this is the case and if I can't I'll cede that you have something.

[MortFeld]

Do you really think I'm such shitty scum to try to find a basic reason to townread someone?

I don't know how you are as scum. Do you tend to have elaborate justifications for your explicit townreads?

[MortFeld]

L-2 I believe.

[MortFeld]

Why tr gamma?

Btw hi Ircher it was fun replacing you in LN200

[MortFeld]

Hey transcend can you link me the game from your sig

[MortFeld]

From GE's sig

4) Barring cop-clears (maybe not even then if the game is not Normal), ANYONE can be scum.

I guess there are conflicting assertions as to whether a double voter can be scum or not?

[MortFeld]

I see. But it can be scum?

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I'm not sure how much that changes my GE read. It definitely changes it somewhat.

[MortFeld]

I was fishing. That's kind of just what I do in RVS.

[MortFeld]

You think I'm scum fishing for stuff to jump on?

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I disagree with like, almost the entirety of 276 for the record.

[MortFeld]

I'll expand later. But not a good post.

[MortFeld]

Having played with a version of town!Transcend somewhat similar to Transcend in this game (and been somewhat impressed with his reads too), I am not sure if anything in 153 is scum indicative rather than just Transcend idiosyncrasies.

Btw transcend did you miss my request for the link to the game in your sig

[MortFeld]

Oh right. The game with transcendscum and zach

[MortFeld]

Ty

[MortFeld]

Ok, is really no one seeing what I see in Mortfield?

MortFeld.

[MortFeld]

If you want to know why I've asked any specific questions, ask me?

[MortFeld]

I think Gamma is actual scum.

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Er, in game, I'm sure he's a swell person.

[MortFeld]

I've said why already but I'll put together something more cohesive/coherent in a bit.

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I've skimmed about 3 pages this game so I technically still need to catch up.

[MortFeld]

Tarkus - GE read please

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I guess "null" is like, not acceptable? Like 'not sure if scum or town because X posts make me lean scum but Y make me lean town,' for example, is different than, 'I have zero read on GE'.

This is not Tarkus' fault btw, I asked him to expand on his GE read. And then GE comes in and goes "He said null, dude." Like ffs

[MortFeld]

So you blame me? For what exactly?

1. Answering a question not directed toward you
2. Being incorrect that the thing quoted answers the question

And also the fact that the question was about his read of you, and that you interject there is icky.

[MortFeld]

(82, 95, 118, 235+259)

Hm? 95 is towny because? And 235? These are posts that make me scumread him ftr.

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Yoshi are you a good player? Like do others tend to consider you skilled as town?

[MortFeld]

Ok ty.

How do you usually try to scumhunt, Yoshi?

Transcend I'll look at your wagon later. As for convincing people to get off? Uh, stop voting Transcend, he is town!

I'm not even super confident in that read. I need scum!Transcend to compare to. But I would definitely bet that people are voting you for being Transcend, not for being scum.

[MortFeld]

MMM - maybe take an honest look at how much of 388 is scum indicative, and how much is a playstyle issue?

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Who would you say is good at reading you? Certainly I wouldn't be in that category since I've never read you as scum.

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Wait, Yoshi why Transcend vote? Transcend is right, nether MMM nor Yoshi are even sheeping TF

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Titus how is 388 scum indicative

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Uhh ok MMM lol

Combatting anti-town play with anti-town play. That's what I find love to see

[MortFeld]

Fkn*

[MortFeld]

Transcend if you're scum I'm very unhappy with you.

[MortFeld]

Replacing out does become a trust tell. But allowing this to happen (i.e. only replacing out as town and never as scum on purpose) is morally suspect, in my opinion. In general I agree with Yoshi's stance for people who have a sense of the game's honor.

Either way I think that even if Transcend is scum only TF got anywhere close to a coherent justification for his vote. Bad wagon.

[MortFeld]

Wait I contradicted myself re: trust tells.

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@Mort
Titus or MMM?

Titus. But I acknowledge that a lot of that is being very annoyed with how she was like, limply pushing me earlier.

[MortFeld]

MMM anger at Transcend is definitely fakeable but does a lot to help my MMM read along with their Transcend push since it's MMM actually interacting with the game.

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Actually, I think I changed my mind on MMM because it was moreso a perceived lack of any progression in reads, but relooking through the ISO, I've realized I kinda "misattributed" (for lack of better word--more as to just didn't pay attn to post authors) a few posts and didn't realize those posts were his.

Changed your mind from a SR to less of one, or what?

[MortFeld]

People admonishing TF is gunking up the thread, this is a formal request that you either keep it game related or take it outside the thread.

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Hey GE, who do you scumread? 275, 118, 107 these are implications of scumreads, maybe? But that's all I can find.

[MortFeld]

I do catchup posts when I feel like I wasn't around while stuff happened.

i.e. gonna do one for the three pages I skimmed and pretty much the last 5 pages total.

[MortFeld]

Not associating anyone that's just who I think is scummiest atm

Titus for reactions on me
Mort/BYF gives me TvS vibes
GE just feels scummy to me

Who would you say is the town and the scum in BYF/Mort then?

Mort feels more town to me rn tbh

Mort... always seems town to me when I'm reading games he's in. :/

I've never been scum in a game we've been in IIRC.

[MortFeld]

I disagree with like, almost the entirety of 276 for the record.

Do you think it was scum motivated?

Nope I think Yoshi is town.

[MortFeld]

Feels like you decided TF was town before you saw he was a doublevoter.

That is sort of what I mean in 238 but what I said in 238 is more accurate.

I did. What of it?

I mean, there are multiple ways someone can in reality come to an explicit TR of someone else. Pretty sure you know what I mean? The feeling that he had an unstated belief that TF was town prior to stating that his TR was primarily based on the double vote.

[MortFeld]

If we're not lynching Transcend, can we lynch Mort and BYF?

Hey Titus are you ever going to support this push with anything other than 'he was fishing in RVS and his ISO looks like potshots'?

[MortFeld]

Frankly, ignore everything I said about Transcend after he basically insulted me. At that point I snapped and wanted him dead for whatever shit reasoning I could come up with.
I'm just happy he's replacing out and I can play somewhat normally now.

Is the post where he insulted you the one where he called everyone on his wagon idiots?

I think you might benefit from thicker skin.

[MortFeld]

Fourth work day in a row, will again be posting only on mobile.

[MortFeld]

Transcend is town because if he's scum I respect him less

Tarkus feels town

Mario maybe scum but I do agree with 696

[MortFeld]

Transcend is town because if he's scum I respect him less

So it's acceptable to take your ball and go home when things don't go your way only as town?

I wouldn't say so but I would never believe his explicit reason was genuine if he's scum and that's not acceptable to me.

[MortFeld]

Transcend is town because if he's scum I respect him less

So it's acceptable to take your ball and go home when things don't go your way only as town?

I wouldn't say so but I would never believe his explicit reason was genuine if he's scum and that's not acceptable to me.

It's not acceptable regardless of Transcend's alignment. It's no more acceptable to subout because a player won't townread you when you're wagoned than it is to tell someone how to play.

Transcend started off townie but I frankly do not care for being bullied.

Like I get what you're saying but I don't think you get what I'm saying.

I don't like that he subbed out. But if he's town, I would definitely believe it's because of a personal dislike for TF. Acceptable? Prob not. But if he's scum, I would find it hard to believe it's not because he was getting wagoned. Which is much less acceptable.

[MortFeld]

The point being, I have a certain view of Transcend as a person, and him lying about why he replaced out because he's scum feels very off. I do acknowledge that he could be telling the truth and still be scum (i.e. he believes that he replaced out because of a personal dislike for TF whether or not this is actually true).

[MortFeld]

I understand getting frustrated with Transcend but that slot was town af. I'm not voting it or Titus today.
MMM has been getting progressively townier and I'm not comfortable voting there anymore.
I actually can't see it. Someone needs to make a good case. :p

UNVOTE:

Maybe someone should make a case on you

[MortFeld]

Titus want to talk about 731? Who is condoning the replace out?

[MortFeld]

You are one of the most petulant players I've seen, so talking about whether someone would have the character to leave like that as scum with you is a bit silly since you take offense rather easily.

I've played with TF before in a game where he was very nearly PLd as town. I think he is incredibly stubborn but not unreasonable so when he asks me about my reasoning I see no reason not to present it.

[MortFeld]

Also knowing SC is Grey makes me mad because SC lied to me in a newbie game.

[MortFeld]

Also knowing SC is Grey makes me mad because SC lied to me in a newbie game.

Who's SC?

Stone Cold.

[MortFeld]

MN 1848. I think one or two scum were on the wagon but a lot of town were too obviously.

I'm SRing Titus because her push on me is very bad and she has continually avoided my prods to expand on it. Similar situation for her Yoshi push.

[MortFeld]

SC didn't exactly lie. But I asked if I had played with his main and he said "maybe." Lol.

[MortFeld]

Wait LOL I am mistaken maybe, technically I never played with him.

[MortFeld]

Titus did explain her read on me as "his ISO looks like potshots" I believe.

I have a very poor handle on this game compared to the usual and I'm bad at catching up when behind.

[MortFeld]

@TwoFace
She left without explaining her read on me (and Mort, as he claims). I don't think a Town Titus would leave without explaining.

Agree with MMM re: this. The replace itself is NAI.

[MortFeld]

@Mod: Replace me since apparently it's acceptable gor slots to bully other players and cry when they don't get what they want, I want no part in this game. I cannot play in a player list that endorses such behavior.

The idea that someone is endorsing Transcend's replace out? That might be AI. I don't know who is doing this. It feels like an accusation levied toward me? But I have not done this.

[MortFeld]

MortFeld- scumhunting a lot and putting effort into it, don't see scum here

I am town but I've been incredibly lazy this game, though not by choice.

[MortFeld]

I guess I'm not convincing anyone with this, so I'll just shut up.

Like I think Titus could be scum. But the argument you're making is not scum indicative.

[MortFeld]

MortFeld- scumhunting a lot and putting effort into it, don't see scum here

I am town but I've been incredibly lazy this game, though not by choice.

well in that case I've basically been in a coma the whole time

You've definitely been quiet

[MortFeld]

I literally didn't realize Titus was at L-2. I need to read.

[MortFeld]

@TwoFace:

MN 1848. I think one or two scum were on the wagon but a lot of town were too obviously.

I'm SRing Titus because her push on me is very bad and she has continually avoided my prods to expand on it. Similar situation for her Yoshi push.

On top of the push being bad and her never answering for it (or other things), she was pretty much doing exactly what she accused TwoFace of doing: taking "potshots."

when did she accuse TF of taking potshots

[MortFeld]

I want to lynch GE.

[MortFeld]

79 bad post

107 jumps into a discussion from 98 and contextualizes it as figuratively gladiating me and Yoshi. 1. completely unnecessary 2. the discussion was about who in {Gamma, me, Yoshi} is most likely to be scum so I'm not sure why Gamma would give his input there anyway

121 says he's letting people know his reads by gladiating us in this way which is bullshit (122)

235 see 238, 242, 243, 246. The fact that double voter is very close to IC because of setup history doesn't change what I was saying a whole lot. It's not that I don't think he should be TRing TwoFace there, it's that it feels like he got there so easily. Like the doublevote is a convenient way to justify prior knowledge that TF is town. 250 never answered, I think 248 was trolling but still avoidant.

That's the early stuff. I have to admit I've barely read anything since Transcend replaced out. I usually read sections of the game multiple times but can't really be assed this game. If GE has done anything relevant since then, lmk, but I seriously doubt it.

[MortFeld]

Ok I am checking this out I think there is a logicy thing I can do and I am GOOD at those

[MortFeld]

That's a good post.

You requested that post all the way back in 350.

[MortFeld]

@tarkus; To be honest MMM pretty much cleared my concerns with 699 and I wasn't really scumreading his more recent posts at all.

OK

I take this to mean:

Mario had an MMM case. 699 made that case no longer scum indicative.

So here's Mario's specific MMM case that 699 addresses:

I'm not seeing either of these two wagons here. Still comfortable with my MMM vote because his explanation on his Transcend mini-tunnel just doesn't make sense to me.

But that's a stupid reason to want to lynch somebody. Just cause it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make it wrong/scummy/ or even alignment indicative.

What else do you have in mmm?

that was probably bad wording
like the reasoning behind all of the emotion related to transcend is basically non-existent, like he tunnelled transcend and I'm not really buying that this was because transcend called him an idiot backhandedly. I feel like he may have been seeking a way out of a Transcend wagon he didn't want to stay on.
as I have also stated earlier, he is posting a lot but I'm not sure all of the posting is catching scum, delivering reads etc.
I feel like the scum are either a) lurking or b) duping me because I'm only seeing MMM and even that is weak.

The implication is that Mario thinks that Transcend calling MMM an idiot (which didn't happen exactly like that but whatever) was MMM's reason for voting Transcend. What I'm curious about is what Mario thinks MMM's reason is now. Because that is not contained within 699, and the post that does contain it has a few issues that I think Mario should go into.

Also, how does MMM's explicit offense at being called an idiot imply that he was looking for a way out of the Transcend vote?

[MortFeld]

I think nearly every point from my Gamma "case" is a point I've already made.

[MortFeld]

i thought that he was claiming that his emotion was a major factor in his transcend voting
it feels more genuine now that I know that isn't the case

And how does him claiming that his emotion was a major factor in his Transcend voting help him get off a Transcend wagon he doesn't want to be on? And where did you get the idea that he didn't want to be on the Transcend wagon?

[MortFeld]

And can you answer the other question from 835 too please?

[MortFeld]

Why, TF?

[MortFeld]

Are you trying to pocket me wheme

[MortFeld]

Yep

Darn. This might be easier than I thought for scum to do. Good thing they never do it to me (unless I'm on an alt xD)

[MortFeld]

Hey TF just out of curiosity, why don't you replace out of games with Titus? Just lesser degree?

[MortFeld]

It's not a Fitz PL. Why are you saying that? People scumread Titus

[MortFeld]

I'm pretty sure the person with the primary meta issue with Fitz has explicitly said he does not want a PL

[MortFeld]

Sure, but he's given us the options of forcing a replace or lynching fitz, and said he'll L1 him tonight. Sounds like a PL to me? I get that there are people on the wagon who scumread titus, but it seems like this fitz lynch is looming for the wrong reason

But do you think Titus slot is scum?

[MortFeld]

Gross answer. Whatever.

[MortFeld]

Yeah why Gamma?

[MortFeld]

His first vote on gamma is something I think he would do as scum, and then after his push on gamma was weak

Just to confirm - this is not a meta argument right?

[MortFeld]

Maybe Titus/MMM

I love playing with you dude but stop fucking ignoring questions

[MortFeld]

Been leaning town on Mort but not caring for his multiple excuse posts the last page or two.

Go f**k yourself

[MortFeld]

Been leaning town on Mort but not caring for his multiple excuse posts the last page or two.

Go f**k yourself

Beyond being annoyed by this it's terrible. You're shading a townread for no reason. Do you think my excuse posts are scum indicative? Then why are you townreading me? And if not, why are you shading me?

I'm getting used to playing while working a new job and I'm in 3 games at once. Lay off.

Pedit: I have posted a couple times about work I think? Idk. I can't devote as much time to Mafia as I need to but I'm doing my best.

[MortFeld]

My activity is sometimes correlated with my alignment but not in the way it's happened this game.

[MortFeld]

My activity is sometimes correlated with my alignment

If you even acknowledge this why the crude response to legitimate observations?

Because you have absolutely no idea what my meta is like so you're effectively going "MORT IS BEING QUIET GUYZZ MAYBE HE'S NOT SUPER TOWN!!!" which I actually believe is only valid if you have specific reason to believe that's scum motivated. As I already said, otherwise it's just shade and that is very annoying when I have literally zero motivation for this game or any of the other two games I'm in right now.

[MortFeld]

Like getting shaded for my actual play? Sure. Getting shaded for "multiple excuse posts?" Again, gtfo.

[MortFeld]

My activity is sometimes correlated with my alignment

If you even acknowledge this why the crude response to legitimate observations?

I am acknowledging that I know a specific pattern of activity is correlated with me being scum. You do not know what this is and even if you did it would not apply to this game.

I have no issues "admitting" this because you don't even know what I'm admitting.

IMO though you've tailed off a bit and I'd noticed comments supporting that. Town!Mort has perfectly valid reasons that he and only he can attest to. Scum!Mort could be making shit up.

If I'm making shit up, what is the actual motivation for less activity if I'm scum? Like what am I hiding?

[MortFeld]

1059 contains a misrep

[MortFeld]

1059 contains a misrep

Lol.....ok. What? Considering I meant everything I said.

I'll go into it later. Might not have been intentional but it's a misrep

[MortFeld]

Gamma

[MortFeld]

Wheme could be scum Yoshi is town

[MortFeld]

I don't think Wheme is scum.

I kinda agree.

[MortFeld]

I don't think Wheme is scum.

I kinda agree.

Actually I agree.

[MortFeld]

why? other than the self vote thing which i already agree with I see no reasons as to why he is town.

Yeah I'm definitely not going to be able to convince you. He just feels town.

[MortFeld]

Hey, Mort. Will you sum up your reads for me?

Titus havingfitz - likely scum
Ircher - nullscumish
Transcend WhemeStar - town
TwoFace - town
MarioManiac4 - idk, nullscumish
BigYoshiFan - town
Gamma Emerald - scum
Tarkus - maybe town but I want them to DO more
NotTheRealPaul -Grey- RayFrost - grey was very effortful but said some things I didn't like
ChannelDelibird PenguinPower - null
MMM - town
Hikari Link - town

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Why is Wheme scum? It's like the same reason Transcend is scum. They play like scum according to you - which honestly might be true (for Wheme moreso than Transcend I'd say). But like, I played a game with town!Wheme where honestly he played awful. Like I don't even know what his reads were but it was like he was asking to be lynched and he was lynched and he was town, and it did nothing to help find scum and I was pissed. But that's just Wheme. So unless he's done something actually scummy other than explain himself poorly and be enigmatic n shit, I'm not voting him.

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ehhh
whemestar is townposting all over the thread and I would rather lynch ircher
can we lynch ircher

!!!! Ok Mario can be town

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ehhh
whemestar is townposting all over the thread and I would rather lynch ircher
can we lynch ircher

!!!! Ok Mario can be town

Wait he has lots of reasons to do this as scum too nvm. But this makes me more sure of town!Wheme.

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jesus Wheme's ISO is a trainwreck

Wheme do you purposefully try to get lynched and base your strategy around that?

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!!!! Ok Mario can be town

from that one post?

Read the next post :/

TF man...

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naked votes aren't scummy.

what else you have other than omgus?

What has PPslot even done other than vote GE, and call Transcend/Wheme town?

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Having differing reads is grounds for a scumread?

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UNVOTE:

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Because that's what I said.....

Hm. But having similar reads is grounds for a townread?

How am I posting differently?

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Ok, so lack of analysis. Yeah I'm pretty done with this particular game and possibly mafia in general. It's not AI.

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Ok, so lack of analysis. Yeah I'm pretty done with this particular game and possibly mafia in general. It's not AI.

Playing outside a typical playstyle can absolutely be AI. But, whatevs.

No I'm not saying the pattern isn't AI, I'm saying it's not AI for me.

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K.

Is this "TF your playstyle annoys me so I'm not going to respond to your posts" or "Your points are invalid for ___ reason" or what?

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But, really, what would you want me to say to that? "Nuh-uh, I'm completely genuine, you just don't see it." That's how he feels....can't change that.

But he's saying you don't seem genuine for a specific reason that you could refute

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I'd vote PP. BYF is likely town, Wheme is... always lynchbait. Apparently on purpose. I've never seen scum!Wheme so like Transcend I have no basis for scientific comparison but this feels like the town!Wheme I played with.

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NVM I don't think I want to vote Penguin

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I'd rather end it by lynching scum, not lynchbait

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That said if wheme doesn't cut this shit out I'm probably blacklisting him.

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Actually idk. This wheme ISO is particularly bad. Still feels like town, maybe having a bad game. Replaced into a pressured slot so maybe that's why?

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I'd rather end it by lynching scum, not lynchbait

So why aren't you voting wheme?

If he's scum you're not going to prove it using the argument you've presented because town!Wheme would absolutely do that.

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Sorry everyone for dropping in activity hope I didn't contribute to game's boringness. Actually maybe said boringness contributed to my drop in activity.

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mis

Did you ever explain this?

No, ty for reminding. I'll explain after my shift

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VOTE: Me

Alright twoface let's do this

Oh I love when scum give up. Thanks.

No problem bud, how much will you yell at me when I flip town tho

If I flip town*

This also reads as town based on my experience w/ this stuff.

At the very least it's not a slip.

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GUYS STOP PENGUIN IS TOWN I KNOW IT UNVOTE

?

Explain?

Uh just a gut feeling. I think if you were scum you would of subtly hopped on my wagon

"After a quick Iso of Wheme, it is really trash and blah blah blah... couple reasons. then a vote on me. "

You really need to stop doing this. You will do it as scum and you will never be able to do it as town again.

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Purposefully create a bad ISO so scum jump on it

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You seem eager to end the day

Whoa unique observation!!

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No I know and I did something I actually hate when people do so mb. Your play is annoying me lots even though I think you're town.

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Gamma seems to be egging on the titus/fitz lynch on the basis of having a tell that works if the slot flips scum, but his only reason for thinking it's scum is that Titus changed her transcend read. Like, I think the reason for the scumread is weak, and wanting a lynch to verify a tell that only works if the slot is scum is awfully convenient for scum trying to push this lynch.

He hasn't been exploring other options for a while now and I think tunneling on titus to this extent for the reasons he has given is scummy.

Plus after looking back on the earlier stuff I see what you're saying Mort. Makes more sense to me than most cases at this point.

Is this still the extent of your Gamma read, Tarkus?

This gamestate is awful. I'm not just complaining, I think it's this way for a reason and that reason is not just TF/Titus/Transcend/Fitz fighting. I don't know what the reason is but there is a large set {Tarkus, Ircher, GE, MM4} and you might throw me in there not counting the first few pages and maybe MMM, who are implicitly keeping the gamestate where it is by posting yet having very few game-related interactions. This is scummy and I think there is absolutely scum in this set.

Hikari Link/Kelvin is not scum. I do not like that people are shading them for trying to move the gamestate along. People who have done this are Wheme and Yoshi. Maybe Yoshi should be in the above set too.

I am very hesitant on PP. I think I am always suspicious of PP. PP replaced into a shitshow so I don't blame him for sheeping my reads. How he determined I am worth sheeping? I don't know. This is the main reason I was willing to vote him. But by my hidden metric (which I am working on game by game and which I can't reveal because it can be manipulated) he feels town. Again this is a metric for myself and myself alone and it's not the end all be all of how I read people but it has been very useful in the couple of games I've used it.

Wheme is Wheme. He's probably town.

I will vote anyone in that set above with the exception of Yoshi, MMM, and obviously myself. I don't think I want to vote anyone outside that set other than Fitz.

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Hikari Link/Kelvin is not scum. I do not like that people are shading them for trying to move the gamestate along. People who have done this are Wheme and Yoshi. Maybe Yoshi should be in the above set too.

Where did I do this?

Wasn't you, my bad. I forgot who the non-Wheme person was.

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Hikari Link/Kelvin is not scum. I do not like that people are shading them for trying to move the gamestate along. People who have done this are Wheme and Yoshi. Maybe Yoshi should be in the above set too.

Where did I do this?

Wasn't you, my bad. I forgot who the non-Wheme person was.

It was Penguin. But he didn't do it in a very scummy way so nvm.

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Wait is tarkus just scum?

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Hey so I'm here who wants to talk

Tarkus read

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3 Votes for Ray (no IDGAF because lynching lurkers Day 1 seems like a bad policy)

I disagree with tht greatly -- lurkers ar good lynches if there are no better alternatives in my opinin.

You're Mafia??

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Hey so I'm here who wants to talk

Tarkus read

Null - Scum, not enough activity IMO. Id be fine lynching but I really don't want to lynch someone inactive.

But if he's inactive because he's scum? I'll write more on this.

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1551 might be the most accurate picture of the game

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You're Mafia??

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That's not incompatible with him being inactive because he's scum. It would be incompatible with him being scum because he's inactive.

I'm not really asking if you're Mafia. Well I was the first time, not the second.

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VOTE: ircher

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Why don't you vote someone? @everyone not voting

Because it's either GE or a vanity wagon.

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The gamestate is shit because scum are okay with the prospective Lynch targets

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The gamestate is shit because scum are okay with the prospective Lynch targets

Or they are because they are fine with bussing here for towncred.
Or they aren't okay with them and that's why we can't achieve a lynch.
Or they are inactive and they have no opinion on the current wagons.
Or this has nothing to do with scum and everything to do with the town not being able to get its shit together and caring too much about an almost inevitable Day 1 mislynch.

See? I can make up potential scenarios too. At the end of the day, who cares? Let's just end this day and move on with our lives.

I care because I'm right and we're lynching town 90% of the time if we go by the average of people's lynch pools with this gamestate.

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Oh apparently I'm supposed to not care about whether we lynch scum or town day 1 oops

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Your strategy forces the lynch to be one of 2-3 targets. One of these is virtually guaranteed to be town. If the other 1-2 were scum, do you really think scum sits back here and tepidly votes the town option? Scum has no stake in the two "compromise" lynches (hint they're not compromises) so we are sitting here dicks in our hands until someone dies and we go "Darn why did we compromise!" You are letting scum HEAVILY influence who is pressured and who is not.

Of course if town hadn't spent the majority of this DP twiddling its thumbs too (myself included) we wouldn't be in this place but you're acting like this DP is irredeemable and it's not.

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I never posted an Ircher case, how can anyone agree with it

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mmm the point is that he went from "I don't have strong reads so I have to compromise" to "PP and wheme are basically modconfirmedscum" within two pages
you don't get solid read structures that way. this is what Titus did x10,000 and everyone is just ignoring it

I've said I think Fitz is scum. People are just scared to lynch potential watcher

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3 Votes for Ray (no IDGAF because lynching lurkers Day 1 seems like a bad policy)

I disagree with tht greatly -- lurkers ar good lynches if there are no better alternatives in my opinin.

You're Mafia??

What's that have to do w/ nme being mafia?

I don't know who taught you that lynching lurkers D1 was bad because that is how lurkers slip through to LyLo.

I didn't say why I thought he was scum because of that post, but he assumed. I don't think that makes him scum. But I can't think of too many scenarios where a person's explicit and truthful opinion on theory is AI and I feel like that's not the right assumption? The issue for me was not that Ircher was saying that lynching lurkers is sometimes viable, nor even that he was potentially setting up for a Ray push.

3 Votes for Ray (no IDGAF because lynching lurkers Day 1 seems like a bad policy)

I disagree with tht greatly -- lurkers ar good lynches if there are no better alternatives in my opinin.

My lynch pool current is {Penguin, Tarkus, Rayfrost} for PoE related reasons.

Ircher's picture of the game is very weird. Actually I'd say it's kind of similar to MM4's. Basically there is a very large group of people in a town pool and the lynch pool is those who are not in the town pool.

But the latter group is pretty arbitrary if that is the criterion. I think in order to even consider lynching Rayfrost you'd need to explain why Greyposting was not town because Grey posted a lot of content. And there are some people missing (me, Wheme, GE, MMM(?)) where the onus is on Ircher to explain why.

So you have Ircher's lynch pool in which neither Wheme nor GE are included, and then this big post by Hikari where they go 'Ok so consensus says Wheme and GE are the lynches now vote one of them' and all Ircher says is 'well hey, lynching lurkers isn't all bad!'

I don't think he's on my team this game.

Originally I thought 1592 was very bad. But the first part is not bad at all. And the second only has one minor issue which I don't even blame town!MM4 for.

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I didn't really explain my issue with 1568 very well. I feel like it's a number of things.

Feeling that Ircher is just saying *something* to put words in the thread
Ircher not interacting with the entirety of the rest of Kelvin's post, yet he clearly read it

Also I was like, half shitposting half trying to stir the pot. The people under pressure at that point were like, GE Wheme PP. PP responded in a towny way, GE had been under pressure since fkn RVS and has responded literally the same since then, and Wheme is just a trainwreck regardless of alignment. So I just wanted to try something and I think it actually had good results.

Tarkus... again, is probably town but scum!Tarkus is very reasonable

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The idea from 1551 actually came from the other game we're in, Wheme

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I see progression, and I don't think his changes of mind come and go willy-nilly

I get that you're responding to MM4, but what is the progression?

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mmm the point is that he went from "I don't have strong reads so I have to compromise" to "PP and wheme are basically modconfirmedscum" within two pages
you don't get solid read structures that way. this is what Titus did x10,000 and everyone is just ignoring it

I've said I think Fitz is scum. People are just scared to lynch potential watcher

Ew

We because I'm wrong or?

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Ew*

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MM4 why do you think grey was scum

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MM4 said "this is worse than what Titus did by a lot"
Mort: "Titusslot is scumz"

No

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I think Titus was scum because the way she pushed me was very bad. That's about it. I have barely read fitz' posts.

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I think Titus was scum because the way she pushed me was very bad. That's about it. I have barely read fitz' posts.

cut the tunnel vision bro

It's not tunnel vision

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You barely said anything about me tunneling you since the start of the game, why is it suddenly an issue if I tunnel tituslot

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I haven't been replaced
read the replacement

The replacement posts garbage

See my few interactions with him

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Btw Ircher I saw your post I'll talk to you later

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then why say you haven't read him

I didn't. I said I've barely read his posts

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For context I usually read each post 2-3 times. I've only skimmed his once

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I will like him when he posts content

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Ray is town?

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Ray who else might be scum other than GE

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MM4 is scummy

Stipulating that I would prefer a quick explanation rather than a case right now, why?

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Also I now see why Kelvin wants to consolidate so badly.

Sorry for helping to derail.

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Rayfrost posting style makes me feel really bad for being lazy

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I'm at work right now and also in one of my spats where I lack any motivation for the game. But I'll definitely talk to you and also to Ircher well before Day end.

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And I'll also explain the Fitz misrep I keep forgetting to explain LOL

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1790 is a bad post