Newbie 1828: Utopia! - Game Over!

[Porkens]

Good morning everyone! I see you have already started RVS, so please don't let me stop you.
Please let me know if you have any questions.

vote: inferno390

[Porkens]

Someone throw another vote on inferno for me please.

[Porkens]

Someone throw another vote on inferno for me please.

So you want to bring the pressure on me, eh? Cool. Just go ahead and start firing off your questions. If someone thinks you've got a case, I'm sure they'll throw a vote on the pile.

Are you trying to act casual?

[Porkens]

Oh hey inferno and acid... funny seeing the two of you here lol.

Oh are you three buddies?

[Porkens]

Just an FYI, if you are in ongoing games with anyone in this game, it's best not to refer to it. The rules are very strict on this point. Even "fancy seeing you here" is probably too much.

[Porkens]

Porkens!!!
You and I are the only pre-2017ers here! :O

Hey Acid!
Why vote me instead of starting your own wagon?

DW, what is the point of voting the person who has not yet confirmed? I see none.

Hi! Good to see you here, it should be an interesting game

nein

What's that supposed to mean?

No, in German.

How do you read question interception?

Someone throw another vote on inferno for me please.

So you want to bring the pressure on me, eh? Cool. Just go ahead and start firing off your questions. If someone thinks you've got a case, I'm sure they'll throw a vote on the pile.

This comes across as a bit too defensive to me

What does this level of defensiveness tell you?

DW, what is the point of voting the person who has not yet confirmed? I see none.

Because we're in RVS, also because it'll hopefully get them to start posting sooner.

Why do you want them to post sooner?

DW, what is the point of voting the person who has not yet confirmed? I see none.

Because we're in RVS, also because it'll hopefully get them to start posting sooner.

Riiiiight.
Because voting the giy who isnt here and has not even confirmed thay they will be here is toooootally going to respond sooooo much quicker because they have been voted...

Why are you using sarcasm here?

[Porkens]

Oh sure. Could you get us started?

[Porkens]

What do you think?

[Porkens]

so what do you guys think about doing the 1 shot bulletproof strategy?

I'm not sure what strategy you are talking about. Could you help me out?

[Porkens]

@ Porkens I can't help it... every time I see your name I think..

Spoiler: Porkins!

that's my meta

i wasn't arguing about gambits and fallacies just asking you to spew your alignment

which just means make it apparent and obvious in a way that makes it relatively easy to tell whether you're faking townspew or not

Are we done playing already?

[Porkens]

1s bp strat is where we have the bp claim if there is one

and if none claims, the tracker claims since we have a doc

based on stats and experience this will have minimal positive effect and any it does have will be outweighted by the time taken by implementation

Huh. Well, I have an opinion but I'd like to hear what a couple specific people have to say about it first.

[Porkens]

no ofc not :<

the spew alignment game doesn't have a playercap though! the more the merrier!

Ok good It's your turn, then.

[Porkens]

RVS is over for me.

[Porkens]

but that doesn't mean y'all can't keep going. I don't want to derail the fun, but I'm not going to be able to stop myself from grilling people

[Porkens]

UHHHHHH my page 4 scumereads are <redacted>

[Porkens]

Beep boop

[Porkens]

1 and 2 are fine

for 3. what effect were you going for?

[Porkens]

The maf are the ones who need to guess which setup we have. Town shouldn't worry about it and focus on scumhunting imo

[Porkens]

Caught up now!
Didn't miss anything.

1 and 2 are fine

for 3. what effect were you going for?

I was showcasing how this was a throw away vote and literally as effective (if not less so) than mine! And mine was on someone literally banned from the site! It is important that this is pointed out! Also, scum often do this to appear as though they are progressing content when really they are doing nothing!

I see, thanks

One more question:

Why did you cast a throwaway vote?

[Porkens]

I had an idea on the way to work. I would like to play a minigame. It has nothing to do with our roles in this newbie game. This is a game for 4-8 players, and its just a silly little teambuilding/get-to-know-you kinda thing. I will not play, but will run the game.

We need at least 4 to start, so let me know if you are interested.

[Porkens]

It shouldn't take too long, nor do we have to stop the normal course of this mafia game to play it.

[Porkens]

No worries, it isn't super fast paced. Just need 3 more

[Porkens]

2 more and ill post the instructions

[Porkens]

1 more then

[Porkens]

I can get you started soon, but we should get one more to have 4 players to start.

[Porkens]

Ok here it is:

In this game, there are 4 sides: North, South, East, and West.
This is a game of negotiation.
Each side should play to their win conditions.
Each side may, at any time, decide to ATTACK any other side.
Once attacked, a side may COUNTERATTACK (but is not required to).
The game ends when a win condition is fulfilled.

Here are you "roles" It's the honor system, so don't look at the spoilers for the roles other than your own. If more players want to join, they can join another player.

North - DarrenWoodWard

Spoiler:

You are aligned with the East.
You win if you are alive when any other side achieves their win condition.

South - Gorny

Spoiler:

You are aligned with the West.
You are one-way lovers with the North. (You die if the North dies).
You win if you are alive when any other side achieves their win condition.

East - Northsideegal

Spoiler:

You are aligned with the North.
You win when all threats to you are eliminated.

West - Aristophanes

Spoiler:

You are aligned with the South.
The West will automatically counterattack any other group that attacks it. This cannot be prevented.
You win when all threats to you are eliminated.

Have fun!

[Porkens]

Do the gambit if you want. I was expressing my opinion, which was asked for.

Nai means "not alignment indicative"

I don't know what rtv means

[Porkens]

Doesn't sound fun.

[Porkens]

The game-in-a-game was to help people get to know eachother. Its totally up to the table if you want to play it. It's already going, so...

Here, I'll give you a realist to talk about....Just a sec.

[Porkens]

I got nothing.

unbote

[Porkens]

I love jokes!

Here's a readslist:

Inferno390

Aristophanes1 (SE)
Gorny (SE)

northsidegal
darrenwoodward10

Noodle
Nauci

acidphoenix (SE)

Vote: acidphoenix

[Porkens]

I'm trying as hard as I can not to be toxic and paranoid for the newbs.

[Porkens]

When a vote is stated as a pressure vote the pressure that vote creates is lessened.

Porkins, das cool. I'll keep in mind that tone reading you will be skewed this game!

True. But The Noodle is an odd sort of creature. Not to be confused with Creature. I know how The Noodle thinks too. He could be watching from the shadows as any alignment. That's Noodle in a nutshell. It's forcing him into the light that's the tricky part.

Forcing or inviting?

[Porkens]

Ok, this is a real vote then.

vote: noodle

[Porkens]

Ok, this is a real vote then.

vote: noodle

was your vote on acidphoenix a real vote? and why switch it so soon?

or is this in response to the "pressure vote" and aristo's response?

Yeah I am scumreading acid. Was a real vote.

Nothing feels right about this noodle/gory thing so I'm gunna poke it. Wanna help?

[Porkens]

I'm just gonna let this simmer for a while.

[Porkens]

Defend myself from what, exactly?

[Porkens]

vote: gory

That omgus bruh

[Porkens]

Porkens, the majority of your posts are questions and it doesn't seem like you want to find scum, but rather post the odd question that might get a response from scum. I was hoping you'd prove me wrong but then you just replied with another question.

Interesting post.

Anyway, please ask me anything you'd like and I will respond directly.

[Porkens]

[quote="In post 190, Inferno390[/quote]

What's with all of the questions here? They seem to be unconnected and kind of random, like you're trying to latch onto something to scum read from.[/quote]

You are correct; I am asking these questions to probe for scum.

I love jokes!

Here's a readslist:

Inferno390

Aristophanes1 (SE)
Gorny (SE)

northsidegal
darrenwoodward10

Noodle
Nauci

acidphoenix (SE)

Vote: acidphoenix

Why am I so town to you? You haven't even really tried scumreading me yet.[/quote]

As I read the thread, I have a text document open. I skim, and let my mind wander over the posts. When something scummy or towny jumps out at me, I move names around. You ended up at the top. I don't remember why exactly, but I'll go back and try to reconstruct my thought process if you'd like.

Well Inferno just asked the main thing I wanted to ask you.
It is possible that Porkens is PR just trying to get a good idea of everyone's roles, but PRs should be just as focused on scumhunting. So he (or she) has got my vote for now.

I really don't know what you are saying here. First of all, it feels like you are trying to figure out whether I am a PR or not - and I don't know why town would be doing that.

Second, scumhunting is exactly what I'm doing.

This comes across as a bit too defensive to me

What does this level of defensiveness tell you?

DW, what is the point of voting the person who has not yet confirmed? I see none.

Because we're in RVS, also because it'll hopefully get them to start posting sooner.

Why do you want them to post sooner?

1) Well, scum are more likely to be defensive when someone puts a vote on them in an effort to look townie I guess. This feels more like an experienced player trying to test a newbie tbh. If that was the intention, you don't have to test me.

2) It benefits everyone if they post sooner, they can add their reads and their insight, and adding a new player into the mix can change other peoples' reads.

1) Does being defensive make someone look town?

2) Do you believe Noodle is reading the thread and not posting?

[Porkens]

1. Well, in general, casting many lines and watching for nibbles seems like a fine strategy to me. In addition, all those questions were directed at two people who were having a conversation together. My questions were in response to their conversation.

2. ok, itll have to be later.

3.1. "defensive" to me means only defending one's self rather than also attempting offense.
3.2. How can you possibly have such a fleshed out opinion about Noodle at this point?

[Porkens]

3.1: But there's more than one kind of defensive.
3.2: You asked if Darren thought he was reading the posts. I think he is. That would be lurking. There's only a few reasons he would be lurking: To avoid suspicion, to try and get reads on everybody, or to try and find a reason to jump on somebody for a mislynch.

3.1: accepted.
3.2: Is lurking scummy, Towny, or Not Alignment Indicative?

@Porkens: I don't think you're PR and I don't care because it's distracting me from scumhunting. I said it's possible but PRs should be more focused on scumhunting, it was my argument for why you're not a PR for those who thought otherwise.

I don't think it's pro-town to speculate who the town PRs are.

Grr, I hate mobile formatting. I'll just try and answer your questions without quoting them, Porkens.
1) Do I think being defensive makes someone look town?
Not really, because town don't have as much to worry about. The town aren't trying to act town because they are the town so they're not likely to be as defensive. Also if someone suspects someone from town they have a good justification for it because they're not scum.
2) Do I think Noodle is reading the posts?
Yes I do and it's really annoying. I like it when everyone gets in on the whole conversation.

that's totally fine.

1) If being defensive is scummy, then why would scum "be defensive in an effort to look towny"?
2) Why do you think he is reading the posts?

[Porkens]

I think we should shake this tree a bit.

vote: acid

[Porkens]

Why is acid so scummy to you?

[Porkens]

Could you explain your town read on the pig and cats please

[Porkens]

Just in case it's not clear, I am your IC and here to help any player that needs it. I will not hold your questions against you.

[Porkens]

Here's a fun game, popcorn your guess for scumteam. Popcorn means I'll start and then pick someone to go next. It stops whenever someone chickens out

unvote

I'm guessing it's gorny and northsidegal

Acid you go next.

[Porkens]

Huh. Never seen that before.

[Porkens]

1. Ok, but this isn't live mafia, you can wait a while to post. Everyone has a life. It's not weird to only post a couple times a day. So, you have time to purge those emotions, and post calmly and without "panic". So assume scum know this. And they will not be overly defensive. That's just my advice

2. This is a good analysis. Does that seam scummy to you? Just curious I haven't formed an opinion yet.

[Porkens]

VOTE: gorny

noodle you should at least have something

I'm conflicted on whether to vote for Noodle or Acid. At this point I'm thinking Acid mostly because of the points have been made by Gorny. I just wanted to add my own reason, if you look in the quote, the way Acid is talking to Noodle in a very weird way makes me think he's trying to talk to his scum partner. I know it's early in the game and it's probably not a good idea to be making partners. But out of all of Acid's posts, this one definitely stands out. I also find it weird how we votes for Gorny but then goes on a weird ramble against Acid, it kinda looks like his way of saying "psst, Noodle, vote for this guy". Also convenient how Noodle left this bit out whilst quoting top.
VOTE: Acidphoenix

What points did Gary make that stood out to you?

What do you think acid is talking to his scum partner about?

I agree with the Gordy/acid thing, but maybe not on the messaging. Could be though.

I really don't understand the post edit at all.

[Porkens]

Ok here it is:

In this game, there are 4 sides: North, South, East, and West.
This is a game of negotiation.
Each side should play to their win conditions.
Each side may, at any time, decide to ATTACK any other side.
Once attacked, a side may COUNTERATTACK (but is not required to).
The game ends when a win condition is fulfilled.

Here are you "roles" It's the honor system, so don't look at the spoilers for the roles other than your own. If more players want to join, they can join another player.

North - DarrenWoodWard

Spoiler:

You are aligned with the East.
You win if you are alive when any other side achieves their win condition.

South - Gorny

Spoiler:

You are aligned with the West.
You are one-way lovers with the North. (You die if the North dies).
You win if you are alive when any other side achieves their win condition.

East - Northsideegal

Spoiler:

You are aligned with the North.
You win when all threats to you are eliminated.

West - Aristophanes

Spoiler:

You are aligned with the South.
The West will automatically counterattack any other group that attacks it. This cannot be prevented.
You win when all threats to you are eliminated.

Have fun!

Wait, did this freak someone out? Who peaked and got scared?

[Porkens]

Oh shit, are you guys playing this?

[Porkens]

Sorry, sorry, IC mode reengaging.

[Porkens]

hi

[Porkens]

IC MODE REENGAGING

[Porkens]

oh, fine.

[Porkens]

1) what kind of response to being voted would make you think someone was probably town?
2) if you were scum, would you try to signal your partner like that during day 1?

[Porkens]

Apologies in advance if I mess up your pronouns, if I do don't take it personally. Just let me know if it's wrong.

That's very polite of you.

[Porkens]

vote: darrenwoodward10

[Porkens]

1) what kind of response to being voted would make you think someone was probably town?
2) if you were scum, would you try to signal your partner like that during day 1?

1) Like I said, immediately defending themselves or voting against them.
2) I don't know, maybe if it's essential

vote: darrenwoodward10

I feel like this is just another test to see if everything I said was true. So I'm not going to take it seriously for now.

[Porkens]

It's a good vote right now IMO.

[Porkens]

I think my readslist has gone through a shuffle.

Are you really begging off the popcorn game northsidegal?

[Porkens]

But you think I'm scrum, right?

[Porkens]

Hah, you will know I'm posting from my phone when that one sneaks out.

Seriously, though, why does northsidegal hate all my mini games so much? Is she afraid I'm trying to maker her scumslip or something?

[Porkens]

Ok, well popcorn officially ended when northsidegal chickened out.

Now, NORMALLY, I would try to run her up to L-1 and see what kinda play came out, but i'm gunna go a little slower and reread first.

[Porkens]

ummm, wait a minute

[Porkens]

Talk to me if ur there, whoever. I have ideas

[Porkens]

ISO Aristophanes

See if you see something

Don't tell me what it is, though, just read it and tell me if you see something.

[Porkens]

Ok lemme try and show

[Porkens]

He never scumhunts once.

[Porkens]

Here is the only post that was actually scumhunting:

[Porkens]

vote: aristophanes

Serious.

[Porkens]

No offense, but that's scummy as hell.

[Porkens]

To be frank, noodle isn't on my radar at all. I can not figure out why you can't get him off of yours.

[Porkens]

that should be enough to stir the pot

[Porkens]

K gnight

[Porkens]

Thx

[Porkens]

Inferno, i am going to try and help you build your case.
Porkens is scrum because...
1. He is trying to get aph lynched.
2. His documenting isn't over realistic.

Anything else?

[Porkens]

*scumhunting isn't realistic

[Porkens]

Aristophanes did say yesterday to wait until tomorrow and has not not even posted. Really the only scumhunting he tried to do was when he was asking me why I voted for someone even though it was literally RVS. At least Acid has done more scumhunting.
VOTE: Aristophanes

He also criticized you for having a more meaningless vote than himself.

[Porkens]

Which is still his vote, by the way

[Porkens]

Northsidegal, I will sheep you. Show me how to play mafia your way please.

unvote

[Porkens]

VOTE: darrenwoodward10

Because voting for unconfirmed feels like scum wanting to look useful :thinking_face:

Also see turbo-the-yuro post.

Why is Inferno in the clear?

Why so many excuses for Noodle?

Hmmmmmm

I don't have beef with inferno. I just want to know why he's at the top of porkens' list.

You just post twice excusing noodle for lurking. ?

This isn't an excuse for lurking. Lurking in itself is NAI.

VOTE: Gorny

I agree

VOTE: acidphoenix

Rather convenient to just pop back in and jump on the Gorny bandwagon!

Gorny:

I'm on mobile so I'm not going to try to quote that giant post. If I forget to address anything let me know

1: I enjoy being generally trolly and announcing all sorts of claims. VT, arson, jailer, etc. Am actually town aligned witch!
2: I said "am not scum" because someone had just asked me if I'm scum. I am not scum.
3: Lurking is definitely a scummy thing to do, not NAI. Defending lurking is also scummy.
4: You've post multiple times saying Noodles weird behavior is actually normal, giving him excuses to hide scumminess behind. Smells like scum teaming!
5: I don't really know how to explain why I think your posts are overly defensive without writing out a psychology essay so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For now my reads are on the quiet people, so Noodle and... Hmm. I'll have to take another look in the morning.

Also lol @ the bus joke. Where I'm from, bussing means one scum throwing another under the bus!

VOTE: Noodle

I think you are probably right that there is scum on the wagon.

"confident that he is scum" is not what I am. However, I am 100% confident that he has not been scumhunting at all, and that's scummy, and either that needs to change or we string him up.

Gorny let me bully him onto the wagon without ever stating why he himself thought of Aristo. Scummy.

Darren gave a reason, added his own spin, and I think that reason was good enough to vote on. Null.

Nauci never mentioned Aris before his vote. His ISO is mixed. I want him to lean town because he likes to agree with me, but that makes me biased, too.

[Porkens]

I unvoted because I don't want the day to end right now (and, as I said, you are probably right about their being scum on the wagon)

[Porkens]

I hear you.

Are you willing to let Aristo sit there at L-1 right now? Having said there are scum on the wagon?

[Porkens]

porkens do you think there's a >9/14 chance of 1+ scum on w£
agon innately or do you just mean that you think that in context there's scum in (nauci, gorny, darren), and partially due to the wagon

Sorry, what is the 9/14 coming from?

I think based on how fast the wagon filled up, at least 1 scum probably hopped on.

I almost called one player out for it, but...decided not to and to talk with northsidegal.

[Porkens]

so why unvote?

Precisely because I want him to talk before he is hammered.

is it just to try to avoid the heat and reduce suspicion on yourself?

No, I'm not averse to heat and suspicion.

is it because i called out the scummy creation of the wagon?

I think there are scum on the wagon, yes.

finally, before i questioned you on it, it seemed like your justification for unvoting was sheeping me. it's only after i asked you directly why you unvoted that you give the reason of not wanting the day to end early.

I am trying to encourage questioning

it seems like you're overly concerned with appearances, especially in my eyes - trying to appeal to me by unvoting after i called out a wagon and saying that you're going to sheep me.

I want your trust. I care about how you see me, especially YOU. I am trying to appeal to you and work with you to find scum today.

You have repeatedly complained that this game isn't moving along. I should be your hero. I am trying to please you. I want you on my side.

Ok?

[Porkens]

Inferno, i am going to try and help you build your case.
Porkens is scrum because...
1. He is trying to get aph lynched.
2. His documenting isn't over realistic.

Anything else?

1. You're trying to get aph lynched

really fast, as evident by page 12

.
2. Your "minigames," while interesting, seem to be an attempt to take focus away from scum hunting.
3. Looking through your ISO, other than a few posts, there doesn't seem to be very much scumhunting on your part.
4. Those that do have scumhunting seem to be vague and unconnected.

My gut says that with all of this, you're scum.

Who's my partner if I'm scum?

[Porkens]

THAT DOES IT.

VOTE: INFERNO

[Porkens]

Is there any reason you chose Him in particular?
What reactions were you expecting?

Also, I just noticed your shiny Azumarill and love it!!!

Thank you!

No, there wasn't a real reason. Just that no one had thrown a vote acid's way yet.

This vote on someone who had no votes on them is the antithesis of scumhunting.

Man, you leave for 18 hours and a whole lot of stuff goes on!

@inferno, why are you trying to act casual? is there a reason you have to act and you're not actually casual? what's got you concerned?

NOTHING's got me concerned. That's why I'm acting so casual. Because I'm am feeling casual, because I'm not concerned.

Nothing has Inferno concerned. Perfectly fine still voting for acid, who was a random vote.

Man, I've been busy!
As for now, my vote is staying where it is, but I am also leaning toward Porkens being scum.

I love jokes!

Here's a readslist:

Inferno390

Aristophanes1 (SE)
Gorny (SE)

northsidegal
darrenwoodward10

Noodle
Nauci

acidphoenix (SE)

Vote: acidphoenix

I like this, so I'm going to follow it up with one of my own.

color=#0000FF]Aristophanes1 (SE)[/color]

darrenwoodward10
Gorny (SE)

northsidegal
Noodle
Nauci

acidphoenix (SE)
Porkens

I am lower on the readslist, but he is still voting for acid. Why?

1. Well, in general, casting many lines and watching for nibbles seems like a fine strategy to me. In addition, all those questions were directed at two people who were having a conversation together. My questions were in response to their conversation.

2. ok, itll have to be later.

3.1. "defensive" to me means only defending one's self rather than also attempting offense.
3.2. How can you possibly have such a fleshed out opinion about Noodle at this point?

3.1: But there's more than one kind of defensive.
3.2: You asked if Darren thought he was reading the posts. I think he is. That would be lurking. There's only a few reasons he would be lurking: To avoid suspicion, to try and get reads on everybody, or to try and find a reason to jump on somebody for a mislynch.

Why would you think Noodles was reading the posts? It doesn't make any sense. What is the point of this speculation?

No, see, this looks like an attempt from Porkens to get a quick lynch on Aristophanes.
I still feel like your "scumhunting" wasn't very realistic.
VOTE: Porkens

SO, you agree with me that Acid was scummy, even as far as keeping your vote on him over me.
then, you give Aris a PASS on not scumhunting AT ALL while you vote for me for "unrealistic" scumhunting.

Inferno, what is your definition of scumhunting, and how does one do it?

(PS, someone else will have to put Aris at L-1, I'm busy now.)

I did just read through Aph's posts again, and I will agree, he has not done much scum hunting, but it definitely doesn't look like he's been actively

not

scumhunting either. I feel like the claim that he's been not scumhunting at all is pretty weak.

Also, once again, I make a move to the BP strategy.

I'll start:

Not BP

[Porkens]

I want your trust. I care about how you see me, especially YOU. I am trying to appeal to you and work with you to find scum today.

You have repeatedly complained that this game isn't moving along. I should be your hero. I am trying to please you. I want you on my side.

Ok?

Now

this

seems like an AtE attempt.

It IS! You are correct. I am appealing to her emotions. I am also trying to appeal to her logic.

Inferno, i am going to try and help you build your case.
Porkens is scrum because...
1. He is trying to get aph lynched.
2. His documenting isn't over realistic.

Anything else?

1. You're trying to get aph lynched

really fast, as evident by page 12

.
2. Your "minigames," while interesting, seem to be an attempt to take focus away from scum hunting.
3. Looking through your ISO, other than a few posts, there doesn't seem to be very much scumhunting on your part.
4. Those that do have scumhunting seem to be vague and unconnected.

My gut says that with all of this, you're scum.

Who's my partner if I'm scum?

Not sure. I think it's probably a little too early to start trying to pair off scum, and I want to keep my options open. I am thinking about Noodle, Darren, and Nauci on that account though.

NOT SURE? NOT SURE? You have had ACID and PORKENS as your scum ALL GAME. Why are you suddenly NOT SURE?

THAT DOES IT.

VOTE: INFERNO

What's up with the OMGUS vote?

OH MY GOD YOU ARE SCUM.

[Porkens]

PORK: Who's my partner if I'm scum?

INFERNO: Not sure. I think it's probably a little too early to start trying to pair off scum, and I want to keep my options open. I am thinking about Noodle, Darren, and Nauci on that account though.

PORK: NOT SURE? NOT SURE? You have had ACID and PORKENS as your scum ALL GAME. Why are you suddenly NOT SURE?

[Porkens]

I dunno, vote him and lets find out.

[Porkens]

Or, I guess he could just hop on the Aris wagon and hope for a lolhammer...

[Porkens]

what the fuck are the words coming out of infernos mouth right now

like I have no clue what the fuck he is thinking regardless of his alignment

Do you think Gorny is scummier than Aris?

[Porkens]

porkens I think I butchered the math but it was supposed to be given a completely random scumteam and given one person(you) was town

Ohhh, I see. Yes. I think there is a better-than-statistical probablility that there is 1 scum on the wagon currently.

[Porkens]

1. That was RVS. Nice try.

It was RVS until a few posts later where you said you liked your vote and were keeping it there.

2. Yeah, I'm not concerned about your questions because I've got nothing to hide. And I saw no reason to move my vote at that time, nothing had jumped out at me.

So no one was scummier than your RVS vote?

3. That was just sorting my reads according to type. Neither you or Acid were lower or higher than each other at this point.

Fair enough - that's how I do it too. But both Acid and I were bright red scum on your list. So first Acid is RVS, then he is just the best choice out of the entire game, and now he is BRIGHT RED SCUM next to me.

4. YOU ASKED whether darren thought Noodle was reading the posts. I threw my two cents into the pot there.

I don't care who I asked. I'm focusing on YOUR answer. Why would you feel the need to throw your two cents in at all? How could you have had a read on Noodle one way or the other?

5. I think that Aris is doing a mix of reading the postas and forming his own opinions and staying active. I think that you're right, he hasn't scumhunted much. But what he HAS done seems more genuine than you're scumhunting. Aris has been around this community too long for me to think that he would just lurk because he's scum. I think that an older player would know better than that.

"He hasn't scumhunted much"? Point to the scumhunting you see.

I don't know what you are trying to get at with the "age" point.

Scumhunting for me is looking for flaws or logical errors in another's arguments, while putting pressure on a player and asking a series of relevant questions to get as many posts out of them to get a feel for the way they see the game and how they're playing.

OK, show me this in Aris' ISO.

1. AtE is a logical fallacy that you should not use to try and get a vote on your wagon, or get on the good side of another player to lower their suspicion of you. That's scummy behavior.

AtE is "Appeal to Emotion". And it is a perfectly legit way to try and convince someone to do what you want. Right now what I want is for Northsidegal to feel better about me so that she can stop tunneling and help me root out scum.

2. Um, it's a legit question.

I don't remember what you are talking about with this one.

Considering how hard it has been to understand some of your posts and how all over the place your votes have been, I think that that's an odd statement coming from you.

If you have a case on Acid, make it please.

Now I'm considering Acid AND Porkens as scumbuddies. Just another thing to throw around in my head, I guess.

Now you are considering it? Not when we were both at the bottom of your readslist? You sound full of crap.

[Porkens]

i think i get what inferno's saying - you can independently have two different people as your top scumreads and yet based on associatives not read them as buddies.

True, but I didn't think that's what he meant, and it seems like I was right considering he recent post.

[Porkens]

Therrs not going to be a lol hammer porky, well at least nit on Aristo. On you, possibly.

UNVOTE: Aristophanes
VOTE: porkens

Try.

[Porkens]

Northsidegal is not on the list for me today, acid. Neither are you.

I predict aris will make good in his next post. If it's more fluff and bullshit then lol, but right now I'm leaning more towards...

Inferno, Gorny

[Porkens]

1. That was RVS. Nice try.

It was RVS until a few posts later where you said you liked your vote and were keeping it there.

2. Yeah, I'm not concerned about your questions because I've got nothing to hide. And I saw no reason to move my vote at that time, nothing had jumped out at me.

So no one was scummier than your RVS vote?

3. That was just sorting my reads according to type. Neither you or Acid were lower or higher than each other at this point.

Fair enough - that's how I do it too. But both Acid and I were bright red scum on your list. So first Acid is RVS, then he is just the best choice out of the entire game, and now he is BRIGHT RED SCUM next to me.

4. YOU ASKED whether darren thought Noodle was reading the posts. I threw my two cents into the pot there.

I don't care who I asked. I'm focusing on YOUR answer. Why would you feel the need to throw your two cents in at all? How could you have had a read on Noodle one way or the other?

5. I think that Aris is doing a mix of reading the postas and forming his own opinions and staying active. I think that you're right, he hasn't scumhunted much. But what he HAS done seems more genuine than you're scumhunting. Aris has been around this community too long for me to think that he would just lurk because he's scum. I think that an older player would know better than that.

"He hasn't scumhunted much"? Point to the scumhunting you see.

I don't know what you are trying to get at with the "age" point.

Scumhunting for me is looking for flaws or logical errors in another's arguments, while putting pressure on a player and asking a series of relevant questions to get as many posts out of them to get a feel for the way they see the game and how they're playing.

OK, show me this in Aris' ISO.

1. AtE is a logical fallacy that you should not use to try and get a vote on your wagon, or get on the good side of another player to lower their suspicion of you. That's scummy behavior.

AtE is "Appeal to Emotion". And it is a perfectly legit way to try and convince someone to do what you want. Right now what I want is for Northsidegal to feel better about me so that she can stop tunneling and help me root out scum.

2. Um, it's a legit question.

I don't remember what you are talking about with this one.

Considering how hard it has been to understand some of your posts and how all over the place your votes have been, I think that that's an odd statement coming from you.

If you have a case on Acid, make it please.

Now I'm considering Acid AND Porkens as scumbuddies. Just another thing to throw around in my head, I guess.

Now you are considering it? Not when we were both at the bottom of your readslist? You sound full of crap.

1. Doesn't make it any less RVS.
2. NO, just that nothing had stood out as scummy for me yet. So I didn't want to move my vote around yet. I was comfortable where it was.
3. Because as the game went on, I felt like Acid's been all over the place and hasn't given that much in terms of scumreading.
4. I didn't have a read. That was just my opinion on if he was reading or not, and tossing around some ideas about what he might have been doing at that point.
5. I think he's old enough to this site that he's not going to lurk and not scumread because he's scum. He knows he would get called out on that. I'll get to his reading in a bit, but I'm a little busy.
6. Again, give me a bit.
7. It's also a logical fallacy that makes it look like you're saying, "I'm doing what you want, so don't think I'm scum!"
8. I asked why the OMGUS vote.
9. Once again, give me a bit.
10. I think this issue has already been resolved, so I'm not going to dive into it again.

Scum.

[Porkens]

Therrs not going to be a lol hammer porky, well at least nit on Aristo. On you, possibly.

UNVOTE: Aristophanes
VOTE: porkens

Partner.

[Porkens]

I'm out.

[Porkens]

What's ISO and also I am a woman

post more after I get home

ISO refers to "reading in isolation". You can filter posts in the thread to any one player.

If I referred to you as "he" I'm sorry.

Ahahaha I love it! What a wagon! This is the kind of shit I needed =D
I'll do a wagon assessment for those who jumped on and off in odd or opportunistic ways and we'll get us some D1 scum!

I'm out to D&D but I'll be back guns blazing soon!

From a cursory read I'm pretty sure Porkens is scum but I want to get a far better look at all of this!

And yes, I've been able to post today. I decided to finish Archer instead though.

Ahhh, UHHHHHHHHH. WELL THEN.

that's, not at all what I was expecting. Interesting.

IM NOT BP.

[Porkens]

Sorry nauci. I thought inferno was obvscum. Aris's commitment to fluff and buckshot blew my reads out of the water.

[Porkens]

Acid is town imo

[Porkens]

Sorry nauci. I thought inferno was obvscum. Aris's commitment to fluff and buckshot blew my reads out of the water.

Laughable!

I was metlrely updating the thread of my whereabouts.

I could have simply not posted until O had a chamce to do my propee posts, but I chose to make an update post and will be here later.

If that is scummy you have weird standard for it!

I'll talk to yout again after you post something protown.

[Porkens]

vote: aristoph

Lynch him or me please.

[Porkens]

Disagree.

[Porkens]

THEN HELP ME FIND SCUM.

[Porkens]

You don't seem to think forum's hop on was scummy. You think inferno is saying "idiotic" things, but you don't think he is scummy.

You give aris a free pass to lurk and buckshot through 12 pages, but you call me out when I am trying hard to shake people's mouths open. You wanted spew, this is spew.

Lynch
Lynch
Lynch
BLOOD FOR THE BLOODGOD.

[Porkens]

You've been looking? I don't need more people looking. I need more people to stop worrying about who is spreading them and start going after buckshot like we have been having. I tried 3 different ways to get th e game moving while everyone else is pussyfooting around trying to teach each other how to read the nine flavors of defensiveness.

I'm done with this day one.

Pick a throat and slit it.

[Porkens]

Gorny

[Porkens]

Good, good. More play like this from everyone

[Porkens]

There is at least one scrum in gorny, aris, and inferno.

Inferno, what was the last straw for your vote on me?

[Porkens]

Lunch time. I like you.

[Porkens]

[quote="In post 421, Gorny"]Porkens, if you think I'm scum, go ahead and give your reasons why you think I am scum and I'll go over it and give my reasons why you're wrong.

I thought you were scummy to hop on to the aris wagon without commenting on it.

Oh yeah and what's up with your earlier votes on:

Noodle 165 (You said it's a "real" vote but did not bother to say why or give any reason.)

I

don't remember exactly, but I think noodle popped in, said nothing, and left again. I was trying to get him to post more.

You said we should shake this tree. Why?

He said he was ignoring me, and it passed me off.

Aristophanes I get, as you pointed out he was not scum hunting when you asked last to ISO him.
-I pointed out he wasn't posting much (as is Noodle), then you jumped on me right away for defending Noodle. My point was in a way, neither of them were posting much, and based on that, not scum hunting.

Noodle is not playing. Aris is active but still somehow not contributing.

Your vote on Inferno 344 "That does it." What does it? What was the straw there that made you vote him? Was it what he said in the post before or something else?

Inferno is hard to talk to. I feel like I've been reasonable? And he just keeps handwaving me away. Also, that first "act casual" th ing was nonsense.

In your error post 404 You come out and say that it's either him or you. Something is odd there. Maybe not scummy but anti town, and not playing to your wincon for sure.

That's your opinion. Maybe acid is right, i don't need to argue about it.

My point is that if you believe someone to be scum, why are you offering yourself up to be lynched vs them at all?

If this playlist is going to town read him and actually bend over backwards to defend him, and actually scumread him over me WHILE HE IS CALLINGG ME SCUM then I'm done.

I don't want to get lynched. But he is scrum. And I'm trying to impress that upon y'all.

[Porkens]

Phone format

[Porkens]

Who is guiding him?

[Porkens]

Oh god, gorny can you start storytelling right now plz tia

[Porkens]

"Towntelling"

[Porkens]

He will probably come back with some story about his bike or phone or not reading for this or that reason. But yeah I could eat now.

[Porkens]

Sure Porky...

...Once Upon a Time, there were 13 Dwarves and one Hobbit and one Wizard........

I'm listening...

[Porkens]

Unannounced? Lol

I'm agreeing with Porkens

But still suspicious of Gorny and Darren

But it's perfectly plausible this is a scum driven train. Hmmm. Ari get in here Andrew defend yourself.

That feel when I finally discover I typo'ed "Andrew" instead of "and" on mobile.

P.S. I demand this forum add a emote.

P.S.S. at least maybe Porkens knows why those votes were obvious, lol.

I didn't even question it, i speak phone.

[Porkens]

Is this where the doc outs then?

I'm not doc.

[Porkens]

Well I guess Ari is never coming back. Is it lunch time yet?

D&D takes hours yo!
I was on my phone on the way there with my last post. I am now doing the same going home!

Also, shocker, I'm hardclaiming BP!
I crumbed it a while back and will quote that for you.

Wait wait wait, instead of doing any scumhunting at all, you pop back in, and claim bp? Nonono. This stops now.

[Porkens]

Now we lynch him. There is no ducking way he is bp.

[Porkens]

Where did you soft?

[Porkens]

Oh, well that makes more sense.

Scumhunt, please, start.

[Porkens]

unvote

[Porkens]

To be fair, what is the best scrum strategy to counter this?

Ccing seems pretty bad for scum here.

[Porkens]

Ahem.

Anyway, when the game gets too settled, I find it helpful to stir the pot.

im no murder she wrote but I get the job done

[Porkens]

Say hi when you are done

[Porkens]

I suspected you wouldn't

[Porkens]

Or did I already earlier?

I don't remember

[Porkens]

unvote

My turn to ask a question to you, Porkens:
Why the sudden unvote?
Seriously, that wall of text that Aristo posted is nothing new and doesn't make him look any less scummy. He just pokes at people with questions and weird reactions like "BaRf EmOji" and "I lOl'D aT tHiS XXXDDDDDDD"
Not to put any pressure on you, Aristo, but can you outright say who you actually think is the scummiest rather than do this?

Well, I thought Aris was scummy for the reasons I have mentioned. I asked if anyone was in-thread, and Gorny answered. I asked him to read Aris before I told him why. He did and said he saw "something". So I explained what I had seen, and voted. He argued for maybe 2 posts, and then crumbled and hopped his vote onto Aris. Then a couple more people did. And then Northsidegal said "That wagon was too fast" and I thought "Ah! She's right!" So I went bravado and voted for Gorny to see if he would crumble again. Unfortunately, I was scumread for that by at least one person who had thought I was town before that. I should have kept my vote on Aris.

Later, as the hours went by and people kept talking, I thought maybe I was now the easy mislynch, and tried to see who was pushing me. Then, Aris shows back up, says NOTHING meaningful other than "Yeah Porkens is probably scum" and leaves again.

He has a zillion reasons not to contribute, and he looks like fucking scum. So now I think it's him and Gorny or maybe even him and Northsidegal.

Then I realize that in order to get the focus off of myself and back onto scum, I needed to accept the claim strategy. I wanted NSG to be town because that's how I read her. So I just decided to go with that. I shit on her claim idea, and she was offended. Then I tried to force her to play my way, and that pissed her off. I'm assuming all of this and I'm sorry whether I'm wrong or not. I don't know the BP strat.

But then I misread and thought "oh, this is insane, the doc claims? wtf" But claimed "not doctor" because I was committed to following what I thought I was supposed to do. It was also around this time that Aris came back with a good post. Actually I think Acid did too, but I was already townreading him. So now I have a pretty strong townread on:

Aristoph
NorthSideGal
Acidpheonix


I really want to scumread Inferno and Gorny, but I also feel like only 1 might be scum in there.

Outside of those I feel pretty iffy about Nauci, I'm getting OK with Darren, and who am I forgetting?

whoever I'm forgetting is scummy.

[Porkens]

NOODLE

[Porkens]

Ok, I'll let him answer for himself.

unvote

for now, I don't know where the coutn is and I'm too lazy to look

[Porkens]

I could be wrong but I think gorny is better. But let's finish the BP thing.

[Porkens]

Ohhh I misunderstood.

Scum should hardclaim BP if town decides to do this.

[Porkens]

Am I going crazy, or did someone mention jailkeeper earlier?

[Porkens]

im crazy. as you were

[Porkens]

To me, this is what "over defensive" looks like.

[Porkens]

8f you all want to do the BP thing, it's fine by me

How could I already know anything, btw?

[Porkens]

To me, this is what "over defensive" looks like.

8f you all want to do the BP thing, it's fine by me

Sure it does.

How could I already know anything, btw?

Why the misquote?

Answer: We all know as soon as one town claims, scum know the setup based on what roles they were assigned and you have been doing a lot of fishing this game both by way of your mini games (tbh, this is the first time I've seen anything like that, no other IC has done anything like it), and also by way of your poking people by voting them and seeing what might happen if other people also vote.

All in all it seems like you're looking for something, doesn't it?

Yes, I am looking...

Spoiler:

for scum

[Porkens]

To me, this is what "over defensive" looks like.

8f you all want to do the BP thing, it's fine by me

Sure it does.

How could I already know anything, btw?

Why the misquote?

Answer: We all know as soon as one town claims, scum know the setup based on what roles they were assigned and you have been doing a lot of fishing this game both by way of your mini games (tbh, this is the first time I've seen anything like that, no other IC has done anything like it), and also by way of your poking people by voting them and seeing what might happen if other people also vote.

All in all it seems like you're looking for something, doesn't it?

You don't consider the possibility that town would fake claim BP?

[Porkens]

Here's another game:

Assuming I'm town, why do I do the things I do?

Assuming I'm scum, why do I do the things I do?

[Porkens]

I believe his claim. Do you?

[Porkens]

Not a game thread tho, correct?

[Porkens]

ill pm the mod in the future.

Now let's get back into the fun.

WHO SHOULD WE KILL TODAY?

[Porkens]

I appreciate the effort that went into this post.

Can you quote the posts of aris that you feel have helped sort scum from town?

[Porkens]

Actually don't, it's a waste of time.

I'll help you shake acid if you like.

vote: acidpheonix

[Porkens]

That's fine for now, can you make your case on acid, then?

[Porkens]

I thought Aristo had a change of heart after I said I'm keeping my vote on him but he's literally done absolutely zero scumhunting since then. Everyone else keeps changing my reads list and I'm trying to get my reads straight.

Aristo claimed BP.

[Porkens]

Ok! I'll lynch acid with you.

[Porkens]

Well, if you aren't willing to vote for the guy you just made a case on then…

vote: inferno

[Porkens]

Well, if you aren't willing to vote for the guy you just made a case on then…

vote: inferno

I am willing Just not at this point when your previous post looks like an attempt to draw me into a wagon. It makes me feel like you know that Acid's not scum. I don't like that. Even if I think she is scum, you seem too eager to get someone lynched to make me trust just jumping on the wagon with you. So I'm not voting for her... yet. That is subject to change as our lynch deadline draws closer.

am I scummier than acid to you?

[Porkens]

Just because I'm IC doesn't mean I'm not going to lolhammer

vote: gorny

[Porkens]

If he flips town I'll be taking a hard look at acid, nsg, and porky

Scumpost depending on flip.

[Porkens]

it really should

You might be right

[Porkens]

WOW what a great night kill!

[Porkens]

Not BP.

Read most of the thread overnight, thinking darrenwoodward10 is the last scum. In brief:

Scum knew with the BP claim that they were in the tracker set-up, which means there's a strong incentive not to lose your partner Day One, as that makes the tracker function as a cop. It's not inconceivable, but it's highly unlikely that scum bussed. Given the wagon configuration, you have:

Gorny (5): acidphoenix, Aristophanes, northsidegal, Nauci, Porkens

In order, that's acidphoenix with an early vote who could have hopped off easily during the run up.

Aristophanes the BP.

northsidegal who declined to push an L-1 wagon on town here:

Aristophanes (4): Porkens, Gorny, darrenwoodward10, Nauci

Nauci, whose vote put the wagon at L-1 and whose motives looked pretty organic.

Porkens who's pretty wacky, but probably not wacky enough to put himself in the danger zone as the IC by getting his buddy lynched with him the most likely subsequent tracker target as the IC.

That just leaves me and darren as the unknowns off the wagon.

More specific thoughts on darren incoming.

Other than the vague analysis of Nauci, this looks right.

BUT, we need to hear more from this Noodle/Penguin slot before we go nuts on Darren.

[Porkens]

State your case.

[Porkens]

Are you suggesting that I pushed on and lynched my partner day 1?

[Porkens]

I told you he was scum all day.

If you somehow turn this around on me and lynch me today, then I hope you pay careful attention to each nudge in that direction.

[Porkens]

I'm not scumreading you for it, that's th e point.

[Porkens]

What are you implying?

[Porkens]

Thanks for replacing in Una.

Seems like a pretty healthy hop-on you just did there.

I'll wait for your proper catchup.

[Porkens]

Acid, are you scum?

[Porkens]

Fine.

vote: darren

[Porkens]

Fine.

vote: darren

Whooooo!

Unannounced L-1!

Don’t make me draw you.

[Porkens]

Guys, nobody plays with these strats out there. You have to get more creative. You should be trying to fakeclaim cop and bp and all sorts of stuff. Town isn’t your friend. That’s where the scum are.

[Porkens]

Was there a rest of the strat btw?

[Porkens]

I mean once we out that there is a tracker? Who gets hit night 1?
What’s the next step after that?

[Porkens]

Get to it

[Porkens]

Please

[Porkens]

unvote

I’m not scum, I am not convinced Darren is, either.

[Porkens]

the bulletproof strat only advances to the next stage if there isn't a bulletproof claim. besides, what would make you think that there's a "rest of the strategy" now that the tracker is

dead

?

I was implying that the scum will love to take a shot at a tracker rather than risk hitting bp. Scum should ask for that every game.

That’s a scum strat.

[Porkens]

Oh, yeah, remind me what happens if the bp doesn’t out?

[Porkens]

Tempting.

[Porkens]

Can you show me the relevant data?

[Porkens]

vote: darren

[Porkens]

Paranoid theory that gets the game moving.

[Porkens]

[bo]unvote[/b]

How did Darren find the tracker?

[Porkens]

unvote

[Porkens]

We need Darren to post

[Porkens]

I'm just so lynchable I guess

[Porkens]

agreeing with penguin and acid here - next lynches are likely the noodle slot and darren in some order. if that doesn't win the game i would probably say porkens, although i would take another look at acid as well. for now it's waiting on darren's big post and noodle's replacement's replacement. a bit unfortunate penguin's replacing out, i really liked her analysis. town points to that slot for it.

i suppose while we're here we should discuss the nightkill. main questions to ask: who inferno did inferno suspect the most, who foresaw that inferno was the tracker and who would have wanted to silence him the most. personally it seems to me like the answer to questions one and three is porkens - i'll have to reread isos to see if there's any hint that porkens read inferno as the tracker, but in terms of wanting silence porkens would be the one to kill inferno. now that he was functionally a cop, inferno would want to investigate one of his major scumreads to either confirm his suspicions or allow him to shift his focus elsewhere. a scum porkens couldn't allow that.

if inferno left a crumb i couldn't find it. interested to hear post game if there actually was one or not, looking for crumbs is one aspect of the game i feel i have too little experience or skill in.

Why did you kill inferno?

[Porkens]

Why would town look for tracker crumbs?

[Porkens]

Why would town look for tracker crumbs?

the logic of 695 is not difficult to follow. i believe it makes a difference whether or not scum knew he was the tracker. to that end, it'd be useful to figure out if there are any clues that scum could've picked up on. this might be a misunderstanding here - i wasn't looking for crumbs before i made those posts, only once the thought occurred to me.

Yeah, you said "I didn't find any crumbs"

why did you look?

[Porkens]

I’m just poking around waiting for Darren.

Nsg is casting a lot of shade.

[Porkens]

Ehhhhhhhh feels wrong to lynch someone who isn’t here since this is a newbie game.

[Porkens]

hey everyone!

I'm going to try to read up tonight and post reads, questions, & my best bet for scum when I get back from pub quiz, probably in about 5 or 6 hours or so. In the meantime, feel free to call out any particular things that you want me to focus on or comment about.

vote: guiltylion

Welcome!

[Porkens]

unvote

I’m gunna reread, too. So fire off a couple of those questions at me.

[Porkens]

More serious:

I'm Gorny, one of your SE Players. While I'm not the IC, I want to offer up a few points for newer people here:

Some common mistakes and pitfalls to avoid (Like fell into early on)...Don't PM other players in the game(s) you are playing, even if it's innocent. It very well could cause both your slot and the slot of the player you sent a PM to to be compromised, causing both of you to be force replaced. Yes, I did this one time and learned my lesson. Secondly, once dead you will have access to the dead thread. We all watch the games as they are in progress. If someone posts something

in game

that you want to react to or comment on or laugh at for whatever reason...Don't hit the reply button so that you can copy and paste whatever it is and then paste it in the dead thread, there's too much of a chance that you will accidentally post in the game after you are dead...causing a problem. Yes, I did this one time as well and learned from it.

instead do this:

Click the PM button on the left there, right under the person's avatar. This will generate a quote of the post in PM format. Cut and paste that into the dead thread instead with whatever comment you have in mind.

Good luck to all.

P Edit @Aristophanes, yes. I know Noodle. He's from my home site. He is his own character, has played mafia before (never here so he's new to the way things work here). I'll let him speak for himself but I will say that regardless of if he's Scum!Noodle or Town!Noodle... Noodle is Noodle. His mind works in his own way.

This is a great scum IC post. Beautiful opener.

[Porkens]

Cool, thanks Gorny!

I also am an SE, so ask me things (inthread) if you need any help! I won't lit about theory to advance my own wincon, I promise!

While this looks like a scum post.

[Porkens]

i dunno i haven't read any of your posts except the last two

and i don't remember the one two back at all

This was scummy.

[Porkens]

hey everyone! there's a few faces i recognize in here from games i've read or played in, but there's also some people i don't really know.

VOTE: aristophanes for a joke the rest of us don't get!

Teehee I probably deserve that

I've seen you around I think. amirite?
I remember the kitty!

Why flirt here?

[Porkens]

Can someone help me out? I want to put a bunch of text in the spoiler tag but the last bit of text shows outside of the spoiler tag. I deleted the last bit and now the bit before appears outside the spoiler tag. The last bit of text is definitely before the "[/spoiler]" tag.

Shit, i should have explained that to him. My bad Darren.

[Porkens]

hey everyone! there's a few faces i recognize in here from games i've read or played in, but there's also some people i don't really know.

VOTE: aristophanes for a joke the rest of us don't get!

Why flirt here?