Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: jmo16mla
Your username gives me bad memories

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Creature
Good vote, hasn't posted, is scum

[Gamma Emerald]

incidentally i also forgot this setup so i'm checking that now

and no, i did not forget my alignment, i wouldn't be able to forget a scumteam

mutant plsss stop gambiting and get targeted reactions instead of "OMG HE SELF VOTED WHAT DO WE DO" reactions

y
I think those reactions are fine to get

[Gamma Emerald]

Setup has a vig, so that's cool. I have a working theory on how to best use it (especially given that we're in evens) but it's gonna require activity and not running things right up to the deadline.

Luckily games with playerlists that all know each other are mad townsided so we should probably be able to lock a lynch much sooner than that.

Don't really see any good strategies other than secret vig plan (I'm interested in discussing this later in the day with mutant actually).

VOTE: Aneninen

Just because you know everyone, doesn't mean everyone else does

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean that secret stuff is aside from obvious shit, like "if anyone fakeclaims vig, just shoot them instead of counterclaiming". I have other plans to deal with fakeclaimers but we'll get to that when

we run up scum

.

And also "don't fakeclaim just to not get lynched".

Oh and also "if you're a PR who's literally about to get lynched within 30 minutes, don't self-hammer".

._.

How would you know?

[Gamma Emerald]

Setup has a vig, so that's cool. I have a working theory on how to best use it (especially given that we're in evens) but it's gonna require activity and not running things right up to the deadline.

Luckily games with playerlists that all know each other are mad townsided so we should probably be able to lock a lynch much sooner than that.

Don't really see any good strategies other than secret vig plan (I'm interested in discussing this later in the day with mutant actually).

VOTE: Aneninen

Just because you know everyone, doesn't mean everyone else does

Also dino talk to me about this

[Gamma Emerald]

@RedFlavor can you please reduce the empty lines in the VC?

In other news thinking Mathdino is town for now



--

sure

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, Welcome Almost! Your just in time for the fuckery that will be page 3!

Oh, love that the Moderator literally links the post in which the person voted. Makes it much easier to fact check.

Fact check what?

[Gamma Emerald]

top tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Well there can be cases where someone votes two people between VCs

[Gamma Emerald]

for me I look at "what's the point of them imitating their play?". I ended up scumrerading someone for making a play town did in another game because it looked like they were trying to act towny. I ended up force replaced cos they thought I was scumreading them for playing like they were in the other game.

[Gamma Emerald]

lolwut
that was in the past dude

[Gamma Emerald]

This has been underwhelming.

@Gamma: I responded to some things you wanted to talk about in 41. Did you... care?

@jmo: I think Jay's vote makes perfect sense from Jay's perspective. I think you're getting caught up in semantics.
Like, if Jay's scum, it's not because of this. If Jay is scum, it's because Jay can almost perfectly replicate his towngame.

More people need to be voting.

Specifically, if you're
1. Still on a random vote
2. Not voting anyone

I would like to know why you're not helping me wagon NSG or Aneninen.

You want more to happen, help me move the game forward.

Thought I responded

1. How would I know what?
I more broadly mean that I expect scum to claim a power role so as to dodge the lynch. So we'll deal with the claim situation when it comes.

2. I already did, see my edit above. I think Aneninen is the only player that I personally remember that idk if anyone else does, but it'd be pretty unlikely he literally knows no one else in this list.

Aneni I have only seen in ongoing, no experience with jmo, Luca might be an alt but if not no experience
And the point was to ask what you think of town's chances with that in mind but you still seem pretty optimistic

[Gamma Emerald]

More people need to be voting.

Specifically, if you're
1. Still on a random vote
2. Not voting anyone

I would like to know why you're not helping me wagon NSG or Aneninen.

You want more to happen, help me move the game forward.

Also why NSG or Aneni? What makes them good early-game wagons?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: luca blight

I want to get this to L-1.

y
also Jay's theory started out good but the conclusion isn't the best, I can see mafia having their Rc fakeclaim backup Rc, think that happened in a past game I played

[Gamma Emerald]

We're talking about mutantdevle. No one else comment on this convo, thanks.

why?

[Gamma Emerald]

Can I ask you what you would do/talk about in the scum PT in the situation that you rolled scum with mutant, knowing he got vigged last game?

I'd do what I tried to do with Hellfire Missile: tutor him.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have not read a newbie game since my own, so no.

And the worst (hah) part about this is I legit have confused names and events before in-game. I really thought it was Mutant who was the guy who we did all that shit too. Man I'm forgetful.

For context: I had claimed watcher and I SOMEHOW saw a NINJA commit a murder, but I also accidentally confused who the mafia and the vigilante killed that game and said the wrong name, in which I was promptly kicked in the ass and the scumteam won by (suprise suprise) taking me to LyLo.

So every point I made about Mutant was actually me talking about Worst, I'm just realizing. Shit.

Officially apologies from Elsa Jay, folks. I will now have to literally correct my entire read because I based this one off the entirety wrong person.

I lynched a conftown in LyLo, as town, because I made a faulty assumption. Happens to the best of us.

[Gamma Emerald]

HOT TAKE: NSG is locktown. Good to know, moving on then.

Jay isn't scum with mutant. Nice to know I guess.

First line I can agree with. Second not sure what informs it?

[Gamma Emerald]

top tho

GDI, Gamma! STOP with that. Suffice it to say it's confusing the hell out of me!

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: luca blight

I want to get this to L-1.

This stinks.

VOTE: jmo

Luca can be scum, yeah.

Based on what, exactly?

OMGUS detected, unless you can rationalize your read fairly

[Gamma Emerald]

As for the game, I only have a townread on Mathdino for now. I think his question about mafia having daytalk was genuine.

What the fuck? That was fake, lol, of course I checked to see if mafia had daytalk before asking other players about what scum would daytalk about

I asked Jay about that newbie game because I forced a mislynchable player to townslip by asking them what mafia would be daytalking about in a setup without daytalk (at the time). I was hoping Jay would fall for the same trick here. He didn't, so all I have is that he's not scum with mutant.

I find it absolutely hilarious that one of the few insincere things in my ISO is the thing you're townreading me for

Wow, I feel dumb now then haha. Well, you telling me that was fake gives me a good feeling about you. If I were scum and someone gave me credit for something I faked, I wouldn't take the time to reply that (taking the possible WIFOM of the situation, of course). How did you make the conclusion they are not partners in crime?

It's actually not that uncommon for scum to challenge townreads on themselves. I will accept this if you can make a specific explanation for this case otherwise you should drop the read.
Thinking you're town tho

[Gamma Emerald]

For anyone confused about the past games thing:

Jay-scum played a game I modded, against A50, NSG, and mutant, along with this guy named the worst. mutant got D1 mislynched, and the worst got mafia'd, vigged, and bodyguarded all on the same night.

Jay repeatedly mixed up mutant with the worst, arguing that mutant was a standout enough player to get the mafia AND town's attention, along with saying mutant is mislynchbait (which is true).

Because pregame lasted 4 goddamn days, we can reasonably assume Jay doesn't literally think mutant is the worst at this point, and that slip was genuine. They're not scum together.

The entirety of that conversation was me trying to pull that out of him. The rest is basically useless IMO.

This is why they aren't scum together.

So it's because Jay forgot mutant was the person in question.
...I'm not entirely convinced. In one of my first games a scum forgot he was scum and pushed his buddy because of that. With Jay's documented memory problems that's possible imo. I'm open to convincing otherwise though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well at least I'm trying to start up a conversation here about topics that are game related.

And for the question about Mutant, I do the same exact thing as scum that I did once as town. I have no doubt in my mind he would do the same.

Right, you voting him has no basis then.

You look like you're trying to play the same way you did last game as town, so that means you've got to be scum... what?

Since when did votes need a solid basis? Your vote on me had literally none, and yet you wanted to get me to L-1.

What is the basis behind your Creature vote?

I feel like I've already explained this:(

Vote on creature and your vote is explained above.

I was kind of pointing out the contradiction/hypocrisy - you slate Jay for not having a basis behind his vote yet you have none for your own votes.

There may be no basis but intent is clear

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

VOTE: jmo

Feel better about my vote being here.

Woo!

For pressuring Jays motives and reasonings? :/

VOTE: luca blight

I want to get this to L-1.

This stinks.

VOTE: jmo

Luca can be scum, yeah.

Based on what, exactly?

Hey, at least we are getting someone to L-1 and we aren't stagnant anymore!

These reactions to being voted ping me a bit as well - it feels unnatural.

I don't like this, feels deliberately obtuse

FOS: Luca Blight

Would vote but not sure of wagon status

[Gamma Emerald]

Fairy-style...?

[Gamma Emerald]

#Important Announcement:

I see you're all making a damn good circus show without me. I'll only intervene when I'm needed, so carry on. (That's me being

very truthful

, in fact)

Why are you "only intervening when needed"? seems like an excuse to lurk until your buddy is wagoned and then protect them
I expect fair activity from you buddy

[Gamma Emerald]

@Aneni (I can still call you this right) I answered 77 cos I didn't realize it was meant for one person
Also why is my suspicion of LB poop? I'm suspecting them (Luca what's your pronoun?) because I don't like how they're treating jmo's attempts to advance the gamestate

[Gamma Emerald]

It's actually not that uncommon for scum to challenge townreads on themselves. I will accept this if you can make a specific explanation for this case otherwise you should drop the read.
Thinking you're town tho

If he doesn't have a good explanation, will you be thinking he is likely scum then?

No
I think he's town either way cos he's townhunting

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't like this, feels deliberately obtuse
FOS: Luca Blight
Would vote but not sure of wagon status

What's the wagon status have to do with him being scum or not?

Are you scared to jump on a fresh wagon?

I'm concerned about accidentally hammering
but since you say it's fresh
VOTE: Luca Blight

[Gamma Emerald]

I skipped a few pages cos I was taking a break
Jeezus chill the fuck out you two, I guess I'll just not try to engage in real time when catching because that's such a fucking crime

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca do me a favour and stop interrogating jmo for now, talk about something else

Do you give a shit that I responded to you above lol

I disagree voting me makes sense based on my RVS post. I can't understand that mindset at all.

I agree with this
but LB's jmo push was still fake as fuck and quite scummy imo

[Gamma Emerald]

It's actually not that uncommon for scum to challenge townreads on themselves. I will accept this if you can make a specific explanation for this case otherwise you should drop the read.
Thinking you're town tho

I get your point: challenging townreads would be NAI then? I mean, in the context he (Dino) challenged my townread on him it really looked unnecessary to do it, so I felt it was coming from town. Even if this was NAI, Dino as a whole has been showing his alignment, so this only adds up to everything else.

Now, why would scum challenge a townread besides WIFOM?

Not really any reason besides WIFOM
Guess your reasoning is fair though
back to catch-up so the catch-up police don't get on me more

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Creature

I do declare that this is legit his only post. And Almost popped in and sang some lyrics for some reason and yelled at Gamma like a grouchy old man. Almost is stubborn enough to do his own shit to his grave, and unless any of you know Aneninen, then he seems like a good starting place right now for my vote.

VOTE: Aneninen

How are either of those remotely scummy...

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is there

almost definitely

scum in me and jmo, and why are you favouring me as scum?

I'm with this first question, but on a different leaning. Why is jmo possibly scum to you dino?

[Gamma Emerald]

Interesting how you choose to interpret it as

predatory

instead of genuinely trying to create information and attain a read on someone.

Perhaps you can detail why it's the former instead of the latter?

Because you're not trying to obtain a fair read?

[Gamma Emerald]

ok i guess we're doin this

VOTE: Luca

you wanna go after me in a playerlist with a proven track record of correctly reading me (minus jay and paradox who were bad that one time), be my guest

i'm not gonna continue this 1v1 unless you start doing the "every single post mathdino makes is proof he's scum" thing, let's leave it at this page and see what people think

there's always that one player...

Um sorry I got duped by you in the RC UPick so...
but in other news top tier case on LB

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't understand why Gamma brought that replacement up in 58, especially if he added two posts later:

"lolwut that was in the past dude"

How can I say, he was posting without producing real content.

WOOOOOW destruction of context much?
I was trying to give advice as to what to make of someone's play seeming like their past town play, and when jmo said to not bring it up again I figured he thought there was something going on there so I was like "whoa it's not what you think"
Like this feels

really fucking disingenuous

.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually Aneni's post I just referring to has a lot of discrediting it seems

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

VOTE: jmo

Feel better about my vote being here.

Woo!

For pressuring Jays motives and reasonings? :/

VOTE: luca blight

I want to get this to L-1.

This stinks.

VOTE: jmo

Luca can be scum, yeah.

Based on what, exactly?

Hey, at least we are getting someone to L-1 and we aren't stagnant anymore!

These reactions to being voted ping me a bit as well - it feels unnatural.

I don't like this, feels deliberately obtuse

FOS: Luca Blight

Would vote but not sure of wagon status

How in the fuck is that being

deliberately obtuse

?

You weren't looking into the actual motive and were pressing him on the basis of his vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Always appreciated your playstyle, but GOD do I hope you're not vig this time

Obviously, I'm not answering this. But you must admit that my Vig-play makes the game more exciting. I mean, if the town's winning I make the game more balanced...

Hope you don't mind if I jailkeep you then

[Gamma Emerald]

Read carefully what you quoted, I'm not sure if you misunderstand or if you are the one being

obtuse

here.

Why were you focused on the

basis

so much, rather than looking into the

motive

?

[Gamma Emerald]

Quick Readlist.

town

Luca (explained above)
Pinturicchio (new-player town vibes, explained above)

lean town

Mathdino (his late-questions made him look better)

null or unsorted

(These don't mean the same!)
Creature (no content)
GoldenParadox (is he in the game?)
Mutantdevle (According to Mathdino my scumread on him may be wrong)

lean scum

JayDragonKing (too much fluff, too little content)
Almost50 (too little content but that doesn't match the town-meta I know.)
Gamma (little content but see what I brought up)
Jmo16Mla (see my posts, nothing big but plenty of concerning bits.)

scum

Northsidegal (explained above.)

________

I know I have too many scumreads and too few townreads. For your information, these lists are sort of self-reminders.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Northsidegal

________

Post-edit.

I've read your latest, Mathdino. See your point as for your early-townreads.
I'll think about that later. I mean, your Luca-read. Your NSG-read haven't been explained yet.

While some of the townreads are okay the scumreads are not right in any capacity

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, wrong topic
For that one it should have been clear he was glad RVS was over

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, wrong topic
For that one it should have been clear he was glad RVS was over

@Luca

[Gamma Emerald]

Sure let's try this:

VOTE: northsidegal

You've seen nsg I don't like this

[Gamma Emerald]

what a meme it is to have jay, aneninen, paradox, and almost50 all in the same game

jay lemme tell you about the time paradox claimed babysitter and unironically calmly self-hammered, thinking it was the town thing to do

Edit: I in no way advocate for townreading Jay, lol.

Why all of them

[Gamma Emerald]

All meta should be taken with a pinch of salt, at best.

There are some exceptions to the rule, as I stated with my example of UCV.

I disagree. My pal Mulch says MU has higher town winrates because of meta being used more, and I agree. I recall being caught out once or twice there on meta
And as MD says Creature is meta-able even though he's hyper-aware. I think I could be meta'd as well if you knew my underlying tendencies, but I try to eliminate more glaring differences in town and scum meta.

[Gamma Emerald]

jay fakeclaimed vig as VT in a semi-open to save himself from a lynch (there was a 55% chance there was another vig to counterclaim, IIRC)

aneninen once vigged me after i was cop cleared because aneninen couldn't handle the idea that i knew what his role was (i'm good at PR hunting when i need to be)

paradox once self deadline-hammered as the town's only remaining power role legitimately thinking it was the pro-town move

a50 is just a crazy person

I neighborized scum and tried to mason gambit with them, and later that same game lynched a confirmed miller as town because I thought millers could be scum in normal

Also I know about Jay, I read that whole game in a night phase yaknow

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma: I already answered that, keep reading.

I'm sorry I don't see anything to the sort.

[Gamma Emerald]

instead of actually asking where i got my read from (which is what you would ask if, you know, trying to sort me), he asks leading questions trying to highlight some perceived inconsistency
"WHY ARE YOU A HYPOCRITE"
"Well I mean I'm really no-"
"OKAY WHY ARE YOU NOW BEING INCONSISTENT"
"Well I think your lines of questioning are a little predato-"
"NO YOU'RE BEING PREDATORY, I'M TRYING TO CREATE INFORMATION"
^Luca in a nutshell

Your attempted parody of my posting style is embarrassingly distorted, btw. You're trying to paint me as thought I'm AtE'ing all over the place, which isn't the case.

Don't want to add fuel to the fire, but I felt exactly how Mathdino depicted you in his parody while reading your posts. Maybe you should take a step back and see the whole situation on cold? I'm townleaning you because I got your point and I believe your playstyle is indeed looking for scum, but I understand why someone (like Math, for example) could be scumreading you. I don't want that, I want town townreading town, and I'm feeling this 1v1 was TvT.

I'm kind of scumreading this. It's something about the wording - awkward and a bit LAMIST, while trying to appease both parties. It doesn't really contribute anything, either,

He's not trying to appease imo, that would imply giving both sides something, he's trying to get both sides to concede as I see it. And in his eyes it contributes an attempt to stop a T v T argument. Also what's up with that comma at the end?

[Gamma Emerald]

You've gotten "pinged" by all 3 of the players who've stood against you in some way.

Also, question to the audience, did Gamma just fall for my daytalk trap by reading chronologically? I feel like Gamma would have strong reason to believe there's actually daytalk in this setup...

Edit: Creature, that's literally the point I've been making to Luca. What are you arguing with me about?
How closely have you been reading?

Wait where? I know mafia don't have daychat, my first game of this setup I was scum. I was referring to a past game where I was also scum with pregame and nightchat only, and my buddy was very awkward scum. I tried to give him advice on how to be less awkward. Long story short: HE FAILED, MISERABLY. With the long pregame I would have been able to tutor mutant a bit. So no, it doesn't do the thing you said.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, the reason it pinged me is because he didn't take any meaningful stand - it was worthless appeasement to both parties, and awkwardly worded to boot.

Let's note, pin's new

[Gamma Emerald]

How is something that gains scum towncred an 'anti-scum move'?

I don't believe a town 1v1 battle is quite so harmful as you make out - a lot of the time during such duels both players end up being townread for it anyway.

I see it as a player who is cautious about dipping his toe in the water so plays the peace-keeper role, so as to not make too many enemies while still being active in the game.

I'd think newbscum would try to pick a side
I recall doing that myself in my early scumgames, but that will have to wait til tomorrow cos it's almost bedtiem

[Gamma Emerald]

oops that first one got snared up

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm townhunting first; that way I can do a better PoE. But if you pressure me, I'm scumleaning jmo16mla and scumreading Mutant, mostly because of this:

I wouldn't say my playstyle is scummy, just that I don't conform to site (or mafia in general) meta. I usually look more and more townie the further into a game I live.

I remember reading this a couple of times before. From scum.

That post didn't ping me until Aneninen pointed it out. It seems a really awkward explanation of why we could scumread him.

The scumlean on jmo16mla is because his first interactions with you, but it was just a gut read; I'll read that again if you want a better explanation!

Yeaah I'm gonna have to stop you on that jmo read

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Aneninen
I'm feeling this one

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, the reason it pinged me is because he didn't take any meaningful stand - it was worthless appeasement to both parties, and awkwardly worded to boot.

Let's note, pin's new

I know I'm propense to make mistakes because of being new, but there's no need to babysit me. Are you townreading me that hard to stand up for me? Why?

Luca didn't seem to understand that, so I was making it clear.

I'm townhunting first; that way I can do a better PoE. But if you pressure me, I'm scumleaning jmo16mla and scumreading Mutant, mostly because of this:

I wouldn't say my playstyle is scummy, just that I don't conform to site (or mafia in general) meta. I usually look more and more townie the further into a game I live.

I remember reading this a couple of times before. From scum.

That post didn't ping me until Aneninen pointed it out. It seems a really awkward explanation of why we could scumread him.

The scumlean on jmo16mla is because his first interactions with you, but it was just a gut read; I'll read that again if you want a better explanation!

Yeaah I'm gonna have to stop you on that jmo read

Again, why? If you have no problems defending me, why don't you stand up for him too? I'm feeling pocketed by you

Just because I'm defending you doesn't mean I think you're right

[Gamma Emerald]

In response to Dino asking me my lynchool, I'll separate it into piles depending on which will be for different reasons.

Gut Lynches (The ones I think are the most scummy IMO):

Almost50: Of all my games with him this is him at his most passive. Maybe trying

too hard

in wanting to not die Night one in an Open AGAIN, but I know it contradicts everything he's done that I've seen from him.

Gamma Emerald: I only played on other game with him, but I also remember him being so much more nonchalant about being accused as scum when he was town, yet he's very defensive.

Copout Lynches (one out of fustration or compromise):

Mutantdevle: I did make an entire case against him despite half of it being directed towards a different individuals, but it still stands that it's a possibility should the town be divided.

TheGoldenParadox: looking back made me realize he's only casted what is basically a single post and a "lmao" reaction afterwards. I cannot see him as a power role at this point, so a good middle ground.

JaydragonKing: You can put myself in this catagory as well, really, but that's for you guys to explain and think about, not me.

Informative Lynches (one made out of trying to find a scumteam then for only their own scummy nature):

Luca Blight: The one I want to be hung the least of the group but there's a reason if he is lynched. Should he flip town, I know one of the others who started the push for him is scum.

Aneninen or jmo16mla: I can't see these two being on separate teams atm. I feel like if one flips, we'll know the other's alignment thereafter.

How am I being defensive here? I want to know what you're calling defensive so I can determine what I was actually meaning with it

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Aneninen
I'm feeling this one

Because he voted you or?

Because he's looking like he's trying to discredit

[Gamma Emerald]

pagetop
My reads more often than not suck.
*cough*Greatest Idea Mafia*cough*
and then I realise that North is the only frickin' scum

That game was

weird

. Don't blame yourself.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not so sure Gamma is town tbh, but I'm not sure if it's just his posting style that's triggering me. But let's be honest, several consecutive posts consisting of a single sentence that contains little to no meaningful content is inherently scummy. It clutters the thread and makes people reluctant to re-read.

Also, @Gamma, can you not use the name abbreviation MD when myself and math are in a game together? kek.


I'm liking Golden's catchup though. I disagree that he is not readable and I presently think he is town.

oops
just assume it's Mathdino

Also the thread's short enough where I'm not shifting gears into my actual catch-up mode

[Gamma Emerald]

HOT TAKE: NSG is locktown. Good to know, moving on then.

Jay isn't scum with mutant. Nice to know I guess.

northsidegal is actually scum.

DOUBLY so if Creature turns out to be town through the day. Creature's read was right on point. I'll give NSG a couple chances to explain to me why exactly I think that.
And yes, this is a test, the response may very well affect this read. Please do actually explain why I, personally, Mathdino, am scumreading you. I wanna see if you're seeing the same things.

VOTE: northsidegal

FoS Mathdino

flip floppy as hell. Tell me the previous post was a joke and I'll get off your back.
VOTE: northsidegal
Actual vote.
Also feel like Jay is town for taking the effort to separate informative lynches from gut lynches, looks towny in my opinion.
Also, I feel like a possible motive for Almost being so passive that if he was active in this scenario, people would become suspicious that he wasn't NKed(since he can't NK himself).
Thoughts?
Pedit - Gamma, how is Aneinen trying to discredit here? Who/what is he trying to discredit?

I think your reads are okay besides A50 seeming a bit closedminded of a read
also it has to do with Aneni's earlier posting

[Gamma Emerald]

Never fakeclaimed pr as town, have faked innos as cop when I was sure of my read tho

[Gamma Emerald]

JMO: I don't like this. Scumlean because it looks like he has a lot of fluff not trying to move the game forward.

Like why does everyone suspect jmo for this? Did no one read his posts ever?

[Gamma Emerald]

Can someone speak with me?

Sure. What are your reads? What do you think of the pushes so far?

[Gamma Emerald]

{Jay, Anen, Pin}{math, Gamma, Creature}{mutant, NSG}{Luca, JMO, Almost}

Too many scum are gonna spoil the stew
Too many nullss are gonna spoil the stew

I CHANNEL THE POWER OF RANMARU AND CALL THIS A SCUM POST
VOTE: Creature

[Gamma Emerald]

pinturicchio feels fake.

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

In case you're wondering what's up with me voting Creature
It looks like he is attacking the idea of that many nulls and scumreads without actually engaging with the read list

[Gamma Emerald]

Creature-scum bounces up his activity once people start getting all riled up over trying to activity-tell him.

In Stack the Deck, no one seriously did that, which is why he was able to flake out in peace.

In JK9++, no one did that until Jay deflected the wagon onto Creats, at which point Creature choked (having not contributed for dozens of pages).

Anything uPick was just too long for Creature to actually catch up in and deliver something resembling goodposting.

He hasn't cleared himself, but NSG should still be the primary wagon here.

mutant, hop on if you haven't already?

Sidenote: Pintu blew all his towncred from me after that vote tbh.

Can re-affirm this with the fact he did what Mathdino said in Mini 1985 as well (the popping up when people activity read him)

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are you voting with me if you scum read me...........................................................................

[Gamma Emerald]

Ask A50

about what
also why do you trust me reaffirming it if I'm scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

It's gonna be harder to clear myself if we settle that the lynch should be either NSG or me.

What

[Gamma Emerald]

...I still don't have the most posts
I never have the most posts

[Gamma Emerald]

It's gonna be harder to clear myself if we settle that the lynch should be either NSG or me.

What

I won't be able to sort anyone else.

How?

[Gamma Emerald]

It's gonna be harder to clear myself if we settle that the lynch should be either NSG or me.

What

I won't be able to sort anyone else.

How?

Non-NSG scum: Cool we can lay back
Non-NSG scum #2: Oh look, Creature thinks we're scum
Non-NSG scum: Still gonna lay back, no one will take him seriously anyway

Math take it away

[Gamma Emerald]

Pinturicchio
Gamma Emerald
TheGoldenParadox
jmo16mla
mutantdevle

Okay, some of these are meh and need to do more.

some...which?

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think i pocket the same player twice in a row lol

I'll explain the gambit before I even start gearing up for the lynch, 100% Mathdino guarantee

Also people tend to auto scumread people after getting duped by their scumgame, it's natural and is honestly a pretty townish if irrational thing to do

This makes sense

[Gamma Emerald]

WOOOOOW destruction of context much?

What context? You brought up something than you said it had been the past. What did that

with that comment included

have to do with this game?

The context that I was talking about meta theory, I brought up a past incident, and jmo didn't realize how old it was. I mean

for fuck's sake

Did you not see jmo's 61?

Actually Aneni's post I just referring to has a lot of discrediting it seems

What discrediting?

Maybe it's closer to shading but it seems you're pointing out a lot more scummy things than towny things. I guess it's an inversion of the "scum don't need to townhunt" idea.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not gonna accept being vigged.

Then accept being lynched

[Gamma Emerald]

We lynch NSG, I don't get vigged and then I see what we can do tomorrow.

oh hell no

[Gamma Emerald]

A50 vote Aneni with me

[Gamma Emerald]

A50 vote Aneni with me

I'll vote somewhere when NSG comes online.

WAIT A SECOND!! Gamma asking ME to work with him?? Is it judgement day already???

I figured it was a fair idea because we had similar thoughts on him
I will admit it's probably a first though

[Gamma Emerald]

So really everybody's gonna be like "lynch or vig creature" regardless of what I say?

idk just sheeping onto NSG doesn't help

[Gamma Emerald]

Cool! Aneninen's reads are scummy.

Vote him with me then.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay then
Creature what makes you scumread NSG

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright I'm comfortable townreading Creature

[Gamma Emerald]

I still feel more confident on Aneni but I guess I can understand this

[Gamma Emerald]

Beginning my catch-up (I'm looking after my son all day so this will take a while until I'm back to the present chat)

@Aneni (I can still call you this right) I answered 77 cos I didn't realize it was meant for one person
Also why is my suspicion of LB poop? I'm suspecting them (Luca what's your pronoun?) because I don't like how they're treating jmo's attempts to advance the gamestate

What's to say my push on jmo wasn't similarly intended to advance the gamestate?

Why wouldn't you say that at all before being pressed on it?

It's actually not that uncommon for scum to challenge townreads on themselves. I will accept this if you can make a specific explanation for this case otherwise you should drop the read.
Thinking you're town tho

If he doesn't have a good explanation, will you be thinking he is likely scum then?

No
I think he's town either way cos he's townhunting

Just one of Gamma's many lazy reads.

In case it wasn't clear, I'm scumreading Gamma at this point.

And what exactly is triggering that read? As for the read, how is it lazy? He's new and I think it's a fair read for a newbie.

I don't like this, feels deliberately obtuse
FOS: Luca Blight
Would vote but not sure of wagon status

What's the wagon status have to do with him being scum or not?

Are you scared to jump on a fresh wagon?

I'm concerned about accidentally hammering
but since you say it's fresh
VOTE: Luca Blight

Is he that out of touch with the game to think he would even be close to hammering me at this point?

I want to note I'm a bit skeptical of Anen's townread of me that seems to be based on meta, when not only I've said meta is not reliable in reading me but the meta in question is from years ago. Despite seemingly coming across as defensive thus far, I'm only challenging the completely nonsensical points against me; I would expect some suspicion on me based on how I've played so far.

Similarly I think Gamma's trying to pocket jmo.

Not out of touch, just a bit wary.
Also why did you bring up being defensive?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, addressing the idea that I'm never getting lynched unless it's policy- Dino, I'm charismatic but I'm not sure my scum game is so good yet that I can convince an entire town I'm actually good without more then half the people still suspecting me.

How hard is it to admit I'm actually town this game? Too the point where you asked like three times for me to be the Vig target?

Elsa Jay isn't going anywhere unless the Mafia decides to kill me, and even then, they still gotta deal with the enevitible Jailkeeper or Vigilante on me.

I can really see either going for me, but not both at once. Heck, they may even be checking either my role or Dino's role, I'm 95% sure of that.

wtf does this mean?

[Gamma Emerald]

Interesting how you choose to interpret it as

predatory

instead of genuinely trying to create information and attain a read on someone.

Perhaps you can detail why it's the former instead of the latter?

Because you're not trying to obtain a fair read?

You're quite clearly biased here as you're not even trying to consider my point of view. This comment is basically just echoing what Math has already said without adding anything new.

Btw, this is the sort of '

predatory'

question Math scumread me for - there is no good way to answer it.

No? You can describe how what you're doing is fair. And I tried to rephrase because predatory was a pretty charged word and I felt it was clouding your opinion.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, wrong topic
For that one it should have been clear he was glad RVS was over

This is such bollocks that it seems like you're deliberately missing the point.

jmo's reaction of feeling alternately happy and sad at being voted seemed fake.

Alright that seems sensible, but I can see the reasoning and I think it was genuine.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, the reason it pinged me is because he didn't take any meaningful stand - it was worthless appeasement to both parties, and awkwardly worded to boot.

Let's note, pin's new

New players can be scum as well.

You're not even considering the fact he could be scum, which in turn increases my suspicion of you.

I like Pin's suspicion of Gamma - light townread for that.

Paradox seems Townie based on tone.

Maths' 338 - Has NSG as scum when he previously had her as locktown. This can't really be passed off as a valid gambit because she has barely posted in between these changes. The fact he then discloses at the end that it's a reaction test not only defeats the point of said reaction test, it also seems like a cowardly cop-out - as though he can't be held accountable for that view because it was for reasons other than the ones given. Math is hiding this whole game behind these so-called gambits. Scumread re-affirmed.

He also mentions I have enough good town points, but never mentions what they were - this is significant because he later returns to his scumread on me without any specific reason for doing so.

Well I don't see reason to scumread him. I townread that early post and 172 I felt was actually quite fair.

[Gamma Emerald]

First line I can agree with. Second not sure what informs it?

what? why do

you

agree with that? since when were you aware of my meta?

I was aware of it since Gest idea

[Gamma Emerald]

513 Gamma -

1) Why should I have to say it? I think it goes without saying that early reads are exaggerated for the purposes of game advancement.

2) The read is lazy because you're just writing him off as Town based on his join date. I'm aware he's new, and the inital post that pinged me is one I could see coming from scum of any experience. Btw - experienced doesn't = good and inexperienced doesn't = bad.

3) The defensive part was referring to myself. You seem to misread/misconstrue a lot in this game.

1) It seems like a cop out given that it took so much pressing to get you to give that reasoning.
2) Maybe, but I think I'm still okay with keeping him as a townread given his overall content
3) I got that. Why did you start talking about it after giving that other thought is my question. And I'd like to know where you say I've been "misconstrueing" things.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma:

1) not really - the only reason I said it is because you used that reason to defend jmo without considering I might have been doing the same thing.
2) I am also townreading him, but I remain suspicious over how quick you were to.
3) I was talking about Anen and it was related to that. I've already mentioned a few times where you've misunderstood something I've posted.

1) Understandable, you were counterpointing me with my wording. I'll drop it for now but I'm not sure you're being perfectly honest about your intent.
2) I think I was quick to because I feel like I have a natural affinity for getting certain players I've known since their start of playing here right wrt townreading them. This has happened in the past with Ramcius and I can provide links if you'd like.
3) Idk how it's related but I'll check it maybe. And you say you've provided examples of how I've done it to you, can you provide them for others?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma:

I don't feel the need to link the examples of your misunderstanding things as I'm not even sure it's AI - it was more just an expression of annoyance on my part.

Why have you been continuously defending jmo this game? What is your actual read on him?

I just wanted to see if you thought anything else was and determine if it was fair or not.
As for jmo I've been defending him because I felt his goals should have been very clear. I'm kinda feeling I should reconsider at this point because I'm like "he's not new he could very likely be faking". Town until further notice though.

[Gamma Emerald]

i don't actually feel like creature has obvtowned yet but that would mean that he's putting in far more effort than usual as scum, i think. if he is scum, i'd think that almost certainly points to a scumteam that's aware of his meta and talked pregame specifically making a specific effort for him to try to subvert it.

@A50 – the timing of my posts is really as meaningful as you're making it out to be.

*raises hand*

[Gamma Emerald]

Votecount 1.2

northsidegal(2)

~ Creature(50), Mathdino(115)

Mathdino(2)

~ Luca Blight(64), TheGoldenParadox(23)

Creature(2)

~ Gamma Emerald(97), JaydragonKing(46)

jmo16mla(1)

~ northsidegal(29)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ jmo16mla(44)

Not Voting (4): Almost50(20), Pinturicchio(15), Aneninen(16), mutantdevle(28)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-03-13 13:20:00)

This is a very bad votecount. Seems entirely plausible that all 3 top wagons are on town.

I also overestimated the number of people actually pushing me because Luca decided to spend an entire page or two nitpicking my posts.

Creature vote was fine, his and my read of early NSG was aligned, I can plausibly see Creature with that read.
Luca push on me is still bad, Paradox townread holds.
Gamma continuing to vote Creature despite townreading him is probably a fluke. Jay hopping on Creature seems weird, idk how to read that.

VOTE: Luca
While I debate what to do with NSG in my head/with Creats.

!
Yeah I thought I was voting Aneninen
VOTE: Aneninen

[Gamma Emerald]

I replied to your case point for point and you dropped it. If you genuinely want to get me lynched perhaps it would be in your interest to try and show why my questions are of a predatory nature, because only Gamma vaguely seems to agree with that and he's in his own world.

I just find it strange how you scumread me based on 1 main thing, yet accept it from others as being town. Like, you're just undermining your own point against me as it's obviously not very AI if people you think are town are doing the same thing.

Scum are wary of 1v1's in general - I'm Town and don't give a f*ck basically. I think you've been all over the place this game and I'm holding you to account for it. As scum I probably wouldn't want this because even if I succeeded in getting you lynched, I wouldn't exactly look good from it.

Excuse me what about me being in my own world? What makes you say that?

[Gamma Emerald]

@1. Mathdino: Can you find it in your heart to have some faith in the PRs doing the right thing w/o you directing them?

Uh.
No.
Not really at all, no, sorry.

To reiterate my last experiences with vigs:
- Anything uPick: Vig shoots a suicide bomber N1 (and then scum-me on like N4 but that was just obv at that point).
- Switch: Vig shoots doctor N1, and shoots nothing but town as the game progresses.
- Winter Wonderland (NSG's game): Vig shoots cop and then gets shot.
- Pick Your Power X/Y: Aneninen shoots me after I was copcleared because of paranoia and "oh wow Mathdino seems domineering and manipulative, must know too much".

I have 0 confidence in vigs to the point that I literally think the presence of a vig in a setup is anti-town because of MS towns. I have a plan to account for this but it fundamentally revolves around:

Vigs need to stop trying to play hero.

Policy-shots, people that mafia will never shoot, and people that are likely to get lynched the next day are the only people that should be vigged. Not your vanity wagon.

Like, straight up, if I'm vig, I would not be vigging NSG or Luca as of now unless it was clear town was likely to lynch one of them. I'd just case them myself. But vigs get drunk on power and think they'll be the one that catches scum alone because town

just wouldn't understand, maaan.

It's stupid and it needs to stop site-wide. Vigs are responsible for too many losses.

I've played vig a couple times by now, I've had decent luck with both methods (playing hero and following the wisdom of the crowd) but I think if I had to rate one over the other I'd pick the second option because I feel like my more notable successes have been by doing that
In fact I might break down my vig games throughout my history (thankfully there's only 3 iirc) and see which shots were which and their success rate.

[Gamma Emerald]

I replied to your case point for point and you dropped it. If you genuinely want to get me lynched perhaps it would be in your interest to try and show why my questions are of a predatory nature, because only Gamma vaguely seems to agree with that and he's in his own world.

I just find it strange how you scumread me based on 1 main thing, yet accept it from others as being town. Like, you're just undermining your own point against me as it's obviously not very AI if people you think are town are doing the same thing.

Scum are wary of 1v1's in general - I'm Town and don't give a f*ck basically. I think you've been all over the place this game and I'm holding you to account for it. As scum I probably wouldn't want this because even if I succeeded in getting you lynched, I wouldn't exactly look good from it.

1. Does it look like I'm pushing you right now? When my vote was on you earlier, my primary project was waiting to get NSG/Creature sorted. I didn't

care

about you, the vote was more symbolic than a "LET'S GET THIS GUY".
and lol I can agree on Gamma being in his own world

2. It's a D1 point and it's what I have to work off of. Others have already dropped other towntells. I can give you some kind of nebulous "yeah but it was the way you did it" or "this just feels like what you'd do as scum" but that wouldn't be very satisfying, right? You haven't dropped any towntells in my book.

3. That doesn't seem right. Lazy-scum are wary of 1v1s. I'm fully aware that 1v1s are detrimental to the gamestate and will at least make a token effort to avoid them as town (or when trying to appear town). Correct scumplay here is to fill up 3 more pages with a back-and-forth and watch your case on me go nowhere (and hell, my case on you might go nowhere too). Increase town apathy, incentivise everyone to just not read it.
I consider your points against me bad, but I also don't consider them threatening enough to actually go and explain things to you, because I think town-you is just being irrational about this. There's always that one player who scumreads me for basically everything I do.

i guess it's luca
jay should just be vigged, we're never getting a wagon on him unless it's policy
and doing that will just fuck up the VCA

tbh i dropped luca into town to try to distance my brain from the "SCREW YOU FOR 1V1ING ME" mindset

and because PoE created a scumpool of {NSG, Creature, Anen, mutant}
but yeah that no longer works

This is just a lie - he said earlier I had enough

'good town points'

. Now it's convenient to scumread me again (perhaps because I'm not active at this point or on his case) he slots straight back into scumreading me again.

Another point Math ignored.

You said I had 'good town points' earlier but never elaborated on them, and apparently you've forgotten that was the reason you stopped scumreading me.

Explain.

When I'm trying to read players I'm in a 1v1 with, I recognise that I'm often flawed and so I end up defaulting to what others that I trust think. I didn't say you had "good town points", I said others had good points on you being potentially town. Specifically Aneninen. Forgot who was the other one.

Creature backing up this read gives me more confidence on the original scumread I had. It has nothing to do with your activity, your activity's fine.

Yeah at this point Math is definitely coming out on top theory-wise, but I'm actually kinda townreading Luca's responses, like I kinda understand how he feels Math is only pressing the one point of "predatory questions"

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok guys, I've tried to be as fast as I can, but this game is much more fast paced that I thought it was. I've been reading though, and I have some thoughts I want to share. I think the best way I can do this post without using a whole page is doing a summary of my reads and then a spoiler with bigger and better explanations.

First of all, my townreads (in this order): Luca, GoldenParadox and Mathdino.

Spoiler: Townreads

I'm now very sure Luca and Mathdino are just obsessed with each other and their 1v1 is more like egos fighting than scumhunting (or townhunting, whatever you like more). Luca is my most townread now because he could have backed off when the 1v1 was over, but he went for it again. Why doing that when there's much more easier targets to mislynch than Dino? And from Dino's perspective, 1v1ing Luca is a bad idea too; Luca's like a bulldog, he bites and doesn't release his prey no matter what. Getting in an argument with him, with how agressive and persuasive he is, is certainly a bad idea as scum, unless he really loves smelling his own farts and think he can get towncred by "winning" the 1v1, which is a possibility, but when Luca flips green (if), that towncred would do a 180 turn. I'm only giving less towncred to Dino because of the possibility of trying to be the townleader as scum, something I try to do when I play IRL, but he's nowhere near in my suspects radar. PARANOIA MODE ON: if Luca and Dino are both scum and they are trying to put themselves against each other as antagonists, I already lost this game. PARANOIA MODE OFF.
tl;dr: this 1v1 reminds me a lot of Death Note; you just want to be right for the sake of it. The difference is that this is not a Light Yagami vs L, but an L vs L, which would be an interesting anime if you ask me.

About GoldenParadox: something I noted from our last game where he was scum is that he reacts very poorly to pressure and being scumread, and he also tried to mislead town with a lot of going all over the place. Here's different: much more measured reads, and he's criticizing Dino for something he did a lot in that game (Newbie 1849). "Hey, I do tend to be flip floppy when I'm scum, and Dino is being flip floppy... Maybe he's scum!". It's not uncommon to do that reasoning, even if it's bad reasoning. Also, Golden is the only player I have read in many other games, and if I remember correctly, I always got his alignment right except for one time where he fakeclaimed being VT. He's not a good scumplayer; at this point of the game I would already noticed something weird, but there's nothing I find scummy in him. He's behind Luca only because I need more posting from him to be completely sure.

Townleans: NSG, Jay and Creature (in this order, too).

Spoiler: Townleans

I need more content from NSG to sort her out, but I'm giving her towncred for her reaction to her wagon, specifically to her confrontation with Dino. NSG not posting doesn't tell me anything bad about her; on the contrary, if she was scum, she would be worried being in the same game with Dino, knowing that he would possibly go over her to sort her at the beginning of the game. Between "I don't want to be sorted by Dino, I will just lay down and wait to see what happens" and "I'm busy", I'm inclined to believe the latter than the former.

My townlean on Jay is abstolutely a gut read and because of the reads on her of more experienced players than me. I think she hasn't contributed a lot, BUT her lynchpool post in 312 seems thoughtful and real.

I have two main reasons to believe Creature is town, but both aren't good enough to townread him and I'm not trusting myself in this: first, a lot of players have said he is a bad scum player, so the louder players (like Dino) would have sorted him out at this point of the game or at least begin pushing him. I know Dino wanted to do a NSG vs Creature wagons, but he pushed NSG instead of Creature and he hasn't gone over Creature even when he came back with a lot of content; the second reason is a longshot and I preffer not to discuss it for now.

Nulls: jmo, Almost50 and Aneninen (again, in that order).

Spoiler: Nulls

I had to ISO jmo to remember why I gutread him as scum, and he got out of that read with two posts: 240 and 253. I can't see scum motivation to explain why two players can't be on the same team, and his push on Gamma seemed real. The problem is, he hasn't given much more content, and he could be fencing now that "loud" players are townreading him, but he's closer to a townlean right now. Almost too troll to read, I don't know his meta so there isn't much content to know what he's going for. Aneninen, on the other hand: I really don't like his playstyle; I've seen other players doing what he's doing and I always gutfeel they're scum. He makes long posts with a lot of doubt of everyone else's posts, but doesn't really engage with anyone, even when he has a lot of scumleans and scumreads. Feel like he makes a lot of content but not trying to solve the game. BUT, as I said, I always think this is scummy, and I've read games where I was really wrong about this type of players, so I think I'm a little biased.

Scumlean: mutant.

Spoiler: mutant

His "I don't conform to site meta. I usually look more an more townie" still seems scummy to me. I agree with Creature saying he seems fence sitting, his posts aren't that thoughtful, and saying he's interested in jumping on NSG wagon without really doing it was weird as hell. There's only one reason I'm not scumreading him: I feel like his reads are outdated, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until I see where is he now.

Scumread: Gamma.

Spoiler: Gamma

I have to talk about myself first to explain this: If I were someone else, I would be at least nullreading myself for how I have played at this point. I'm lurking a lot, have some awkward posts, tend to post only if I'm being alluded, and this is completely different to my playstyle in Newbie 1849: there, I was giving thoughtful reads, catching up every time I could, going all over the place and, in summary, helping to solve the game. Because of this, I expected at least a call for attention from Gamma, but he instead went to defend me telling everyone I'm new to the site and shouldn't be pushed if I'm inconsistent or not being gamesolvey. I felt pocketed, as he pocketing the newbie who said some posts ago that was having trouble with his reads and would "follow the leader" if necessary. Pocketing a newbie seems an easy task, and implies having two votes instead of one when an important decision must be done.

I'm doing this long post mostly because I fell behind this game as there has been a lot of meta readings and strategy aroun this kind of reads, so there's nothing much I could talk about during those conversations. With this, I'm expecting to be engaged so I can contribute with more content and help everyone sort me and help me sorting everyone.

I can understand these. I don't recall saying "don't push pin if he's not consistent" or w/e. But otherwise the thoughts on me seem fair. However, I've not been reading him on pure meta but mostly on intent. It feels like his intent is towny. As such I haven't been paying attention to meta.
Is this clear as to what determined my Pin read?

[Gamma Emerald]

Because he's looking like he's trying to discredit

Although my scumread on went away yesterday, I'm still asking it: where?

I answered this already. The same post by you where I took issue with your analysis of my 58+60 I felt had too little town-tells spotted, I felt like you were not really trying to townhunt which felt scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

I dislike disagreeing with Creature but the only towntell I have from Gamma this whole game was that he went after Creature at a point where I don't think scum would or should.

Going over his ISO, I'm seeing a lot of posting that feels like busywork, and I'm also seeing the patterns pintu is suggesting.

Hate to sheep the guy Creats is voting, but this feels right:
VOTE: Gamma

Does anyone think pintu and Luca are scum together?

If not, and if pintu is scum, he's alignment informed and Luca is town (hence pushing me/Luca apart for the towncred).

@pintu: Counterpoint to your Math/Luca reads: If I were scum, filling up pages of 1v1 with Luca benefits me in this situation, because I would win the 1v1 and it would make everyone else apathetic and unwilling to read it. I don't think that logic really works.
And the ironic thing is that you're townreading me for engaging Luca while Luca is scumreading me for repeatedly trying to disengage from him

Wait what the fuck? Why the read change? This feels strange

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait what the fuck? Why the read change? This feels strange

It feels strange cuz it's on you.

Read change was predicated by:

- I'm running out of scumreads; if Creature and NSG are both town (not sure on NSG but I'm waiting on some meta for her), and if Luca is town as everyone seems to think, fuck all my scumreads, I'm not scumreading Aneninen or pintu, so I was looking at the options at hand.

- I never ISO'd you before. Just did, am scumreading the content.

- I was only townreading you for the Creature votes, which seemed genuine.

Like I can go through your 100 post ISO but then this is gonna be a repeat of me vs Luca.

Okay there was a process and you didn't state it, makes sense now

[Gamma Emerald]

Is a math/luca/gamma scumteam possible?

If you have your head up your ass, yes. Math+Luca along with Me+Luca have been fighting it out for quite some time. Do you really think that's all theatre?

[Gamma Emerald]

@A50 Excuse me you didn't seem to want to vote me in certain other games (Death Note, GIFPick, could be others), why do you say I'm one your favorite voting targets?

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh.. GIF U-Pick? Is that the one when the 16-headed hydra got Vigged on D1?

Yup
And yeah you were scum in Death Note, but I felt poking that might get something out of you

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so I'm basically like, the most lynchable player for you. Alright. I'm sure there've been people I've felt that way about too. But honestly I think the key to that thought is "do I feel like I can push this player if I'm scum". If I feel that way then I'd say they're one of my most lynchable because it's just a tendency to find reason to lynch them.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why would we though
I have recently shaped my stances on bussing to "don't do it if it doesn't help you mislynch more people". I only consider a bus good if I can make a faulty association occur with it. What do you think my plan is with bussing Luca, especially this early, where there hasn't been that much interaction?

[Gamma Emerald]

What inclines you to say we haven't been intent on fulfilling our pushes?

[Gamma Emerald]

I have some good news for you. (And a piece of bad for myself.)

Now I can explain my Creature and Gamma reads.

This one was my game at Team Mafia. Creature was there too, and this has been my only experience with him. Here, in the early days I couldn't see the Creature I had seen in Team Mafia. Even if everyone said he is ridiculously easy to read, I saw him lurking and posting no content. However, a couple of days ago the familiar Creature "kicked in" with the same posting sytle I know. (Although before the game ended there was a small logical chance that Creature was scum there, he hadn't been on my scum-list when I'd been alive.)

Mod

, I don't think it's a problem to link the game since it's over. I actually waited for a while to see whether the thread would be re-opened but it seems it won't happen until Team Mafia ends. If it's

still

against the rules to mention the game here, I'm sorry and delete this part of the post.

I had an ongoing one with Gamma too, but it has been abandoned for a reason I don't know yet. In this game he replaced in, got lynched on Day1, and he flipped scum. At the beginning his gameplay here was similar to the one I'd seen there. Especially that "I don't know the size of the Luca-wagon" part reminded me to something just as silly as he'd done there. (I don't remember what was it.) But suddenly, he started to be ridiculously nitpicky, which I couldn't see there. Then, checking his ISO I saw a different gameplay.
I must admit, my earlier read on him may have been a bit biased. It was easier for me to find scummy things in his posts: in the other game I knew he was scum from the beginning, so I saw all the scumtells clearly. I was scum with him.

--It should be fine since it's not an ongoing game.

Honestly I'm not sure how much of that game is impacting my read here but I think your play is worse than there tbh (this is before checking that post again as directed)

[Gamma Emerald]

First line I can agree with. Second not sure what informs it?

what? why do

you

agree with that? since when were you aware of my meta?

I was aware of it since Gest idea

@Gamma: You blatantly ignore NSG's second question here. You never justified WHY you agree with Math's notion that NSG was lock town at that point in time. Sure, you say you're familiar with her meta. But what specifically about it lead you to lock town NSG at the time? This is especially relevant since math has said this opinion was a gambit. So basically, you're agreeing with math over something he didn't genuinely believe.

From what I'd seen so far it felt more like her inquisitive town self than her more shy scum self

[Gamma Emerald]

So I'm going to go ahead and

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Why? Well, first of all, he has the 2nd most posts in the game (by quite a long way) yet not a lot of substance. Most of his posts are a simple sentence or two, typically only 1 line of text, which gives me the impression he is trying to look busy without actually being so. If you were to ISO him you'd see that not a lot of his posts are meaningful. His posts are either mostly fluff or asking questions he rarely ever pursues the answers for. It's like he doesn't actually care for the answers (my accusation being that he knows their alignment anyway so doesn't actually need to sort people with his questions). Seriously though, check his ISO, he NEVER replies to any of the responses to his questions unless they ask a question back to their response. He really doesn't care about the answers. So that and the uselessness of a lot of what he posts makes me think he's just posting a lot of what he does to give the impression he is scum hunting without properly doing so.

Also, remember 260? - he says the reason he didn't vote Luca at the time of FoS-ing him was because he didn't know Luca's wagon status and was scared of accidentally hammering. I call BS on that. You think someone posting as often as Gamma is would really think that Luca could possibly be at L-1? Furthermore, why would he think Luca could potentially be at L-1 in the first place? The only way he'd get the impression is if he read the argument between math and Luca - it would be a reasonable assumption that perhaps either one of them could have been voted for over that. But his excuse for not knowing the wagon status of Luca was:

I skipped a few pages cos I was taking a break

I call BS. If he had done that then he wouldn't have known Luca could potentially have been voted for. Saying he didn't want to vote Luca because he wasn't aware of his wagon status is such BS. The town justification for why he didn't vote Luca with the FoS would simply be that he straight up didn't want to vote. You don't HAVE to vote your scummier reads, but scum Gamma would have felt pressured to. Additionally, if he truly did want to vote Luca, he would have checked to see if there was a wagon. But he didn't care for actually voting, he just felt pressured to.

In general, I think pretty much all of Gamma's votes have been bad:

Spoiler: Wall of vote analysis

VOTE: jmo16mla
Your username gives me bad memories

RVS - this is fine.

VOTE: Creature
Good vote, hasn't posted, is scum

If this is another RVS vote (which I assume it is) then this is also fine. However, if it isn't, then it is obviously quite a shit vote. My main issue with this vote though is that it doesn't change for the next 242 posts in the thread. He just completely vote parks creature. His next vote is this:

I'm concerned about accidentally hammering
but since you say it's fresh
VOTE: Luca Blight

Which, like I say, he was hesitant to actually do and only did out of pressure. So to me, this gives the impression that he had full intention to vote park Creature here.

He then makes this vote:

VOTE: Aneninen
I'm feeling this one

with no justification whatsoever.

His next vote is this:

{Jay, Anen, Pin}{math, Gamma, Creature}{mutant, NSG}{Luca, JMO, Almost}

Too many scum are gonna spoil the stew
Too many nullss are gonna spoil the stew

I CHANNEL THE POWER OF RANMARU AND CALL THIS A SCUM POST
VOTE: Creature

which he later justifies with:

In case you're wondering what's up with me voting Creature
It looks like he is attacking the idea of that many nulls and scumreads without actually engaging with the read list

Refering to this post:

{Jay, Anen, Pin}{math, Gamma, Creature}{mutant, NSG}{Luca, JMO, Almost}

Too many scum are gonna spoil the stew
Too many nullss are gonna spoil the stew

So... Creature is scum because of 1 single post? He has no other reason to vote Creature here and if this is the only one then this vote is bad. It feels like an under the radar attempt to get back on Creature.

And now his most recent vote is this:

...
Gamma continuing to vote Creature despite townreading him is probably a fluke.
...

!
Yeah I thought I was voting Aneninen
VOTE: Aneninen

Again, no justification on why he returns here. I don't think Gamma ever mentions why he scum reads Anen, just that he does. And I really don't think at this point that the continued vote on Creature was an accident.

So TLDR for that spoiler: Gamma's votes suck and have little justification and it doesn't feel like he truly believes in his votes at all.

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
I think you're scumreading me partially for playstyle (the one-liners are NAI and I can prove it). Besides that there's the "he doesn't care for answers" poke which I've been accused of in the past several times so what I'd like you to do is find the responses I haven't engaged with so I can look at them at a glance and see what I make/made of them. As for not voting Luca I've been kinda on edge wrt accidental hammers as of late. In a past game I was hammered because no one was keeping track of votes, and in the game Aneni referenced for my meta I was thinking I was hammered at one point and I was like "shit I didn't get to do anything to stop this". Also what's wrong with vote parking in the early game? Along with that, if I didn't have any other suspicions why should I be moving my vote? The Aneninen vote, I've explained it a couple time and I call bullshit on you not seeing it because you say you read my ISO. I'm not explaining it for you again btw, go find it yourself. As for the Creature vote I felt like that was enough along with his lack of activity so far. As for the issue with my vote sticking on Creature I was still scumreading that one post but his activity had improved so I felt it was 1) better to give him some time and 2) I felt comfortable giving up the point there. Also if I wanted to vote park Creature why not explain why it wasn't a fluke and keep voting? If you think that one post was enough why would something else change that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also the point of "I skipped I few pages" making my resistance of voting LB invalid:" unless a votecount was posted at the time no, that's wrong. In fact it would likely make me less willing to vote since I still haven't seen the procession of votes fully.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually the raging is NAI, can provide examples of me raging as town. In fact, the only reason I considered self-hammering that game was because I knew I had to do it

once

as scum to offset all the time I would self-vote as town to avoid becoming like Boonskiies.
also UNVOTE: because I'm liking Aneni's solviness currently

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually the raging is NAI, can provide examples of me raging as town. In fact, the only reason I considered self-hammering that game was because I knew I had to do it

once

as scum to offset all the time I would self-vote as town to avoid becoming like Boonskiies.
also UNVOTE: because I'm liking Aneni's solviness currently

I was thinking Aneninen's point was really valid until this post. Could you explain what made you think Aneninen's has more solviness now? Or are you just dragging a town to your hole?

The fact they're starting to reconsider their read on me and it displays a lot of thought on the matter.

[Gamma Emerald]

So I was making a big review of that Aneninen post but I lost it to my computer crashing.The overview is while it's close to what I thought some of it I feel is justified.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is Pintu being scumread? I'm not necessarily arguing against it yet I just want to see what the reasoning is.

[Gamma Emerald]

why would he claim prematurely without intent

Have you honestly never seen this happen?

I have claimed without intent I think once at least, it was due to there being a wagon on me I did not see being removed without a claim and I wanted to progress things quickly so no deadline rush happened. It was ok because we lynched scum that day but I got NKed that night.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh wait, it's L-1.

UNVOTE:

Could you explain me why putting him on L-1 was a bad decision, even if you thought Mutant's case on Gamma was good? Are you not entirely convinced? If not, what's the difference between putting him on L-2 and L-1?

1) Accidental hammerings can happen
2) Indeed I'm not convinced; I've not even had the chance to ISO Gamma yet.
3) L-2 is decent pressure while L-1, as I mentioned, runs the risk of accidental/lolhammering and also draws out a claim.

1) With you saying it was L-2, yes, plausible.
2) Could you ISO him and give us your thoughts about him?
3) Didn't think about claiming; I really don't see Gamma as anything else than scum and a fakeclaim from him would expose the real PR. But I get your point, you are not as convinced as me, so of course you thought about that.

Why can't you see me as town? Do none of my posts townping you?

[Gamma Emerald]

Holy hell

I also found these 2 posts quite interesting:

A50 vote Aneni with me

A50 vote Aneni with me

I'll vote somewhere when NSG comes online.

WAIT A SECOND!! Gamma asking ME to work with him?? Is it judgement day already???

I figured it was a fair idea because we had similar thoughts on him
I will admit it's probably a first though

Since the only post A50 had made that had anything to do with Anen was this:

...
Yeah, trying my hardest not to get NK'd on N1 by getting myself lynched on D1. GENIUS!

Also, getting lynched? You weren't wagoned at all!

This was literally taken out of context. Jay was saying my play was nothing like he has ever seen me before (and he only saw me as Town) as an alternative to the "trying too hard not to get NK'd" option.

Can someone please explain to me how anything A50 said her was even remotely similar to what Gamma has been saying? Because I don't see any similarities. Gamma had never criticised Anen for taking things out of context and A50 wasn't even criticising Anen.

BULLSHIT! You're lying out of your teeth here! Again you miss critical information in my ISO, and you quoted the fucking post so this is

inexcusable

! I sated earlier that Aneninen destroyed to context of my 58+60, and A50 complain about something of his being taken out of context so I asked him to vote with me since we agreed on that point.

And now you've unvoted him now that real pressure has come to you other it.

also UNVOTE: because I'm liking Aneni's solviness currently

What a cop out.

You don't believe this read; you never have.

What, so I can't reconsider a read ever? This is a bullshit push, and the fact he's pressing me on my unvote makes me think he's gonna keep "scumreading" me on this topic. I see Aneninen has already called Mutantdevle on the Regardless Of Card, and I'm in agreement. Esketit.

VOTE: mutantdevle
Auf Weiderschen, baby!

[Gamma Emerald]

Besides that there's the "he doesn't care for answers" poke which I've been accused of in the past several times so what I'd like you to do is find the responses I haven't engaged with so I can look at them at a glance and see what I make/made of them.

Certainly.

Spoiler: Another wall :/

Your questions:

I mean that secret stuff is aside from obvious shit, like "if anyone fakeclaims vig, just shoot them instead of counterclaiming". I have other plans to deal with fakeclaimers but we'll get to that when

we run up scum

.

And also "don't fakeclaim just to not get lynched".

Oh and also "if you're a PR who's literally about to get lynched within 30 minutes, don't self-hammer".

._.

How would you know?

Setup has a vig, so that's cool. I have a working theory on how to best use it (especially given that we're in evens) but it's gonna require activity and not running things right up to the deadline.

Luckily games with playerlists that all know each other are mad townsided so we should probably be able to lock a lynch much sooner than that.

Don't really see any good strategies other than secret vig plan (I'm interested in discussing this later in the day with mutant actually).

VOTE: Aneninen

Just because you know everyone, doesn't mean everyone else does

Also dino talk to me about this

Math's response:

1. How would I know what?
I more broadly mean that I expect scum to claim a power role so as to dodge the lynch. So we'll deal with the claim situation when it comes.

2. I already did, see my edit above. I think Aneninen is the only player that I personally remember that idk if anyone else does, but it'd be pretty unlikely he literally knows no one else in this list.

Your original acknowledgement of this was only claiming Math is town. You don't actually reply until math calls you out for not caring:

@Gamma: I responded to some things you wanted to talk about in 41. Did you... care?

Clearly, you did not care and thought only to respond when it had been pointed out that you hadn't.

Next:

More people need to be voting.

Specifically, if you're
1. Still on a random vote
2. Not voting anyone

I would like to know why you're not helping me wagon NSG or Aneninen.

You want more to happen, help me move the game forward.

Also why NSG or Aneni? What makes them good early-game wagons?

Response:

@Gamma: I already answered that, keep reading.

You don't respond to this indicating you don't care about why NSG or Anen would be good early game wagons and have no desire to discuss it.


Jmo also never answered this question:

VOTE: luca blight

I want to get this to L-1.

y

You did not pursue the answer because you don't care about it.

HOT TAKE: NSG is locktown. Good to know, moving on then.

Jay isn't scum with mutant. Nice to know I guess.

First line I can agree with. Second not sure what informs it?

Again, this question goes unanswered yet you do not pursue it.

#Important Announcement:

I see you're all making a damn good circus show without me. I'll only intervene when I'm needed, so carry on. (That's me being

very truthful

, in fact)

Why are you "only intervening when needed"? seems like an excuse to lurk until your buddy is wagoned and then protect them
I expect fair activity from you buddy

Fun fact: this question also goes unanswered yet you don't try to pursue it. Is this a pattern I'm noticing here?

But then this question:

@Aneni (I can still call you this right) I answered 77 cos I didn't realize it was meant for one person
Also why is my suspicion of LB poop? I'm suspecting them (Luca what's your pronoun?) because I don't like how they're treating jmo's attempts to advance the gamestate

does get answered:

Why did you answer 250 first, 242 next and finally 245?

While replying to your post saying that I didn't contribute anything, I remembered a few posts that I wanted to bring to light. So I brought them to light.

Okay. This may or may not be true, but it may be totally irrelevant too.

@Aneni (I can still call you this right) I answered 77 cos I didn't realize it was meant for one person

According to your speed how you caught up I doubt that you had missed the context.

Also why is my suspicion of LB poop? I'm suspecting them (Luca what's your pronoun?) because I don't like how they're treating jmo's attempts to advance the gamestate

Again, according to your catch-up you must have had a brief idea about the wagon size.
Besides, there was a Vote Count on Page8. You could have checked the votes.
Posting a FoS is an auto pigeon poop for me.
Also, Luca has had interactions with quite a few other players too. It's strange that you pointed out only Jmo.

I forgot I had a vote on someone tbh. I'm not voting the other guy because I can't remember his name right now and I'm on my phone on a hurry. I'll catch up as soon as possible.

What other guy? You have a scumread and you don't remember his

name

(yet you know it's a guy)?! If you meant Mutant, you actually posted his name earlier.
This doesn't add up at all.

I'm concerned about accidentally hammering
but since you say it's fresh
VOTE: Luca Blight

NoNoNoNoNONONO!
We know that you'd been reading the game before this and your FoS-post.
Even if someone doesn't know whether a wagon consists of 3 or 4 people, they MUST know whether it's fresh or close to hammer.
Your whole catch-up was about producing content-looking posts without any scumhunting behind. You picked a couple of things, and made up a couple of reads.
Scum do such posts.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

But then that's the end of the conversation...

I'd just like to point out that there have been multiple questions you have asked and have been answered that you didn't respond to but I'm not including those since they were looking for a simple answer and needed no discussion. However, questions like this have no reason to be asked if you don't actually want to talk about them unless you are simply trying to just look like you're trying to gamesolve.

You ask this:

VOTE: Creature

I do declare that this is legit his only post. And Almost popped in and sang some lyrics for some reason and yelled at Gamma like a grouchy old man. Almost is stubborn enough to do his own shit to his grave, and unless any of you know Aneninen, then he seems like a good starting place right now for my vote.

VOTE: Aneninen

How are either of those remotely scummy...

With no response. You did not pursue.

Why is there

almost definitely

scum in me and jmo, and why are you favouring me as scum?

I'm with this first question, but on a different leaning. Why is jmo possibly scum to you dino?

No answer. Did not pursue.

Read carefully what you quoted, I'm not sure if you misunderstand or if you are the one being

obtuse

here.

Why were you focused on the

basis

so much, rather than looking into the

motive

?

Did not pursue.

what a meme it is to have jay, aneninen, paradox, and almost50 all in the same game

jay lemme tell you about the time paradox claimed babysitter and unironically calmly self-hammered, thinking it was the town thing to do

Edit: I in no way advocate for townreading Jay, lol.

Why all of them

Did not pursue.

How am I being defensive here? I want to know what you're calling defensive so I can determine what I was actually meaning with it

Did not pursue.

JMO: I don't like this. Scumlean because it looks like he has a lot of fluff not trying to move the game forward.

Like why does everyone suspect jmo for this? Did no one read his posts ever?

No one answered this and you didn't seem to care. I'm under the impression this question wasn't supposed to be rhetorical.

Can someone speak with me?

Sure. What are your reads? What do you think of the pushes so far?

Did not pursue.

Pinturicchio
Gamma Emerald
TheGoldenParadox
jmo16mla
mutantdevle

Okay, some of these are meh and need to do more.

some...which?

Did not pursue.

I replied to your case point for point and you dropped it. If you genuinely want to get me lynched perhaps it would be in your interest to try and show why my questions are of a predatory nature, because only Gamma vaguely seems to agree with that and he's in his own world.

I just find it strange how you scumread me based on 1 main thing, yet accept it from others as being town. Like, you're just undermining your own point against me as it's obviously not very AI if people you think are town are doing the same thing.

Scum are wary of 1v1's in general - I'm Town and don't give a f*ck basically. I think you've been all over the place this game and I'm holding you to account for it. As scum I probably wouldn't want this because even if I succeeded in getting you lynched, I wouldn't exactly look good from it.

Excuse me what about me being in my own world? What makes you say that?

Did not pursue.

reads

I can understand these. I don't recall saying "don't push pin if he's not consistent" or w/e. But otherwise the thoughts on me seem fair. However, I've not been reading him on pure meta but mostly on intent. It feels like his intent is towny. As such I haven't been paying attention to meta.
Is this clear as to what determined my Pin read?

Did not pursue.

And that's it I think. Though I did start to skim read a little more towards the end because I got bored and I felt too repetitive.

TLDR: You don't pursue your questions that go unanswered and don't seem to care about the answers once they are given (with a few exceptions where you do actually continue a conversation afterwards). This just gives the impression you don't care about the answers and are just asking questions to make it seem like you are scum hunting.

Just from looking at the beginning I think it's also bullshit. I'm pretty sure I responded to those first few questions. Might go over that later but currently I don't think it's worth my time.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Anen: is that a fancy way of saying mutant is tunneling you

Kinda (also he's tunneling me). The key point of that read is him calling my read change on Aneninen a cop-out. I'm certain he would have continued to badger me if I'd kept the scumread, so he's basically scumreading me no matter what I do with my Aneninen read at this point.

[Gamma Emerald]

I left this out:

also UNVOTE: because I'm liking Aneni's solviness currently

Solviness? Whutlol. Right now I think I'm one of the least useful players here.

Also you're doing fairly well imo, you're active and engaging others, and you're actually trying to sort people.

[Gamma Emerald]

[quote="In post 665, "Gamma Emerald"]Also if I wanted to vote park Creature why not explain why it wasn't a fluke and keep voting? If you think that one post was enough why would something else change that?

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to ask me here.[/quote]
Basically why would I change back to Aneninen if I wanted to park on Creature? You seemed to be saying that one post was my whole logic but if that's the case why would I not continue to badger that point?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm assuming everyone has read 657 because I have several points in there but 683 is really just 1 point that's stretched out and backup up a lot.

The TLDR for that is that Gamma's lack of justification of his Anen read and inability to properly explain what Anen was discrediting in a post he made makes me believe that Gamma's read on Anen is completely fabricated and not genuine. 683 outlines all the times he mentions his read on Anen and every criticism of him and I point out why it's shit or not a good enough explanation.

Well I tried to detail my thoughts but my computer ate it and I lost interest

[Gamma Emerald]

Hot Take (1):

Gamma's is very likely TOWN in this game. Let him be, and vote your strongest SR

on his wagon

Hot Take (2):

Scum are likely Anen+Pintu+(one of) TGP/mutant/Jay > Luca (Luca is a tier higher than the other three)

Readlist:


Mathdino
Gamma/Creature/jmo16mla
NSG
Luca
TGP/mutant/Jay
Anen/Pintu

Sorry Aneninen is town. Vote mutant.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry Aneninen is town. Vote mutant.

Why is Anen Town (aside from activity)? And what about Luca?

Anen is town because they're actually showing consideration of things rather than just bullrushing his scumreads. Luca is also town cos I can agree with how he's been feeling at times.

[Gamma Emerald]

you're lying about having actually tried to ISO me fully.
As for the process from "destruction of context" to "looks like discrediting", I had skimmed and noted the egregiousness of the response to my post, then I went back to look closer and felt the amount of negative points was oddly high. So both of those were true at the same time. As for the quick read change is it something you'd say town never does? And I'm not "basing my reads on whether you give me shit for them"; that very conceited and misrepresentative in a way that tries to paint me as caring what you think about me.
And honestly I didn't say this yet but I think part of my read (like 20%) on Anen was OMGUS because of voting me for not catching up before interacting in real time.

[Gamma Emerald]

How do I use Mathdinoo's tool he posted?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay well you're not paying attention at all then because you're constantly making mistakes when ISOing me.
Alright you seem to be fine on the read change thing but you've already been called out for the tell so I can't go "oh he's improving he might be town" because you're very likely to have noticed that and to have attempted to cut it out of your posting.And sure everyone cares about how they're read but you make it sound like I'm tailoring them to you, which is very much not the case.
My read on you is 0% OMGUS. I wasn't really scumreading you until I started getting into your points and noticing errors that I felt were more likely to be scum bullshitting rather than honest town mistakes, along with the Regardless Of Card thing.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay well you're not paying attention at all then because you're constantly making mistakes when ISOing me.
Alright you seem to be fine on the read change thing but you've already been called out for the tell so I can't go "oh he's improving he might be town" because you're very likely to have noticed that and to have attempted to cut it out of your posting.And sure everyone cares about how they're read but you make it sound like I'm tailoring them to you, which is very much not the case.
My read on you is 0% OMGUS. I wasn't really scumreading you until I started getting into your points and noticing errors that I felt were more likely to be scum bullshitting rather than honest town mistakes, along with the Regardless Of Card thing.

I am paying attention, I just failed to memorise 1 sentence that was kinda crucial to explaining your motivation. And what do you mean by I've been called out for 'the tell'? You mean the regardless of card thing? I disagree that I'm doing that since I'm not criticising literally everything you do and I'm still open to the possibility you are town. I'm just not praising you for your town tells as I obviously scum read you. After all, tunnelling people isn't just about getting people lynched, it's also about seeing how they react under pressure so that you can sort them. And I haven't cut anything out of my posting; I'm still posting normally. I'm also not trying to make it sound like you're tailoring your reads towards me specifically, my point was that you came across as though you backed down on a read based on pressure due to the sudden nature of the read change (which I'm now assuming is not AI for you but I'll make sure to check your meta at some point since both you and math have stated that part of my points against you are over your playstyle). Finally, I think my mistakes are neither scum bs nor honest town mistakes. They are simple human error.

You've made

multiple

errors analysing my posts. You may not be scumreading all that I'm doing but the fact you went after me for changing my read tells me you didn't care what I did, you were just going to hound me on it. As for changing reads based on being pressured on them, I am actually against that since I have a bad memory of one time I did that and the person I let go, went to 4p mylo as scum and won. As such I'm rather disinclined to drop a read just because someone says "that's wrong". fyi the quick read change is a thing that has only happened in select few games iirc so if you need those I'll point you to them. How are your mistakes simpple human error? I'd think you'd try to improve if you actually cared to sort me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also @Anen do you mean me when you say brass

[Gamma Emerald]

top tho

[Gamma Emerald]

You've made multiple errors analysing my posts. You may not be scumreading all that I'm doing but the fact you went after me for changing my read tells me you didn't care what I did, you were just going to hound me on it. As for changing reads based on being pressured on them, I am actually against that since I have a bad memory of one time I did that and the person I let go, went to 4p mylo as scum and won. As such I'm rather disinclined to drop a read just because someone says "that's wrong". fyi the quick read change is a thing that has only happened in select few games iirc so if you need those I'll point you to them. How are your mistakes simpple human error? I'd think you'd try to improve if you actually cared to sort me.

What are my other errors? I'm only aware of the context and A50 mistake. And I don't 'go after you' for simply changing your vote; I was tunnelling you long before that. But obviously I'm going to pull you up on any additional things you do that I view as scummy. I'm not too sure what you're trying to argue with your anecdote but eh. And you say that quick read changes only happen in a few games for you? So why has it happened 3 times in this game? And my mistakes are simple human error because the only mistake you have shown me thus far is me simply not registering that your read on Anen was to do with how he neglected context. And what do you consider an improvement? What are you trying to get me to improve? I'd argue that I can't improve anything until I know your alignment. Also, I am trying to sort you, that's a given when it comes to pushing someone.

Your errors were that you consistently were missing things. I'll reference all the time I spotted them in another post. I get that you were pushing me before the vote change but the treatment of it triggers the tell. And how long have you been tunneling me? The anecdote is basically meant to ask "do you think I'd let other people get in the way of my attempts to sort people?". What are the other two times I had sudden read shifts? The last bit circles back to what I said at the beginning of this post which is "you keep missing things". An improvement would be me not having to constantly tell you that by you actual looking for things before slinging mud around. And why can't you improve anything until you know my alignment?

[Gamma Emerald]

i don't actually feel like creature has obvtowned yet but that would mean that he's putting in far more effort than usual as scum, i think. if he is scum, i'd think that almost certainly points to a scumteam that's aware of his meta and talked pregame specifically making a specific effort for him to try to subvert it.

@A50 – the timing of my posts is really as meaningful as you're making it out to be.

*raises hand*

not sure what this is supposed to mean.


i've seen newbie scum do exactly what pintu did in 591 and some of the justifications for his reads makes me think that it's a similar situation to then. scumleaning there for that, seeing how things play out should help solidify this read.

It means I'm one who would try to fix Creature's scum meta
Also it seems you're scumreading Pintu via Ms Marpleing? Alright, can't really follow that myself but I can understand it

[Gamma Emerald]

scum never actually rolefishes, that's just a dumb tell and is part of why i stopped listening to luca's points there
i have literally not once ever seen scum openly rolefish in a situation where people claiming actually benefited scum
i have seen scum rolefish to try to look town but it usually just helps town in the end

anyway mutant/gamma/anen makes me not want to read the thread anymore tbh
one of them is almost definitely scum for carrying this shit on

Well it ain't me and I don't think Anen is even responsible

[Gamma Emerald]

pls don't rvs on page 30

[Gamma Emerald]

It means I'm one who would try to fix Creature's scum meta
Also it seems you're scumreading Pintu via Ms Marpleing? Alright, can't really follow that myself but I can understand it

okay – why admit to saying that you'd do that, as scum?

what is "ms marpleing"?

Because I'm interested in full disclosure?

Ms. Marpleing is a form of meta tell where if you see a newbie acting like someone did as a specific alignment there's a decent chance they're the same alignment. Check Anen's wiki for a better description.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hasn't seemed to have done anything for the entire second half of the game, and so my early gut townlean holds. Bunch of posts that it doesn't feel scum would make. Obviously through the lens of "jmo is an experienced 2012er" you can read a lot of his posts as cheeky scum, but that's making assumptions.

Really I just haven't seen any good reason to start scumreading him. Annoyed that he hasn't done shit half the week but real life, etc etc.

That should be more scum indicative, establishing an early presence and then lurking out
btw yeah currently I have jmo in my scum pile

[Gamma Emerald]

VC 1.07

jmo16mla(1):

northsidegal 94

Gamma Emerald(4):

jmo16mla 262, Pinturicchio 593, Mathdino 598, mutantdevle 657

Aneninen(3):

Gamma Emerald 590, Creature 594, Almost50 616

mutantdevle(1):

Aneninen 689

Mathdino(2):

JaydragonKing 738, TheGoldenParadox 743

Not Voting:

Luca Blight 662

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Tuesday, March 13th at 1.20pm UTC or in (expired on 2018-03-13 16:20:00)

Mod Notes: Good Luck! Thanks for understanding my lateness for VC, I have just escaped from prison.

what the fuck

@MOD you missed my mutantdevle vote

-- Thanks for letting me know. It should be fixed now.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm pondering certain things right now

[Gamma Emerald]

Why shouldn't I defend you as town? I think the accusations against you were baseless, so I fought against them. Honestly it might have been a stretch to call you a townread then but w/e

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I've determined a good method to sift out Mutant's wall of my questions so response to that eitehr today or tomorrow

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorta read Anen's "rage post" almost entirely.

Gonna see where I can follow.

Why "where" and not "if"

[Gamma Emerald]

anyway do you not feel the same way about gamma?

I guess I'm townreading Gamma most because of his activity rn.

Why my activity specifically?

[Gamma Emerald]

Not sure if he hates scum.

I mean I find town less stressful in certain scenarios, but scum can be more fun if the team or circumstances is right. Recall my slump at the beginning of Overwatch Mafia? I initially felt like my role + alignment kinda sucked, but by actually trying to make it work I made it enjoyable by getting to know my teammates and actually finding the good in my role.

[Gamma Emerald]

okay so i fully admit that i'm biased as fuck because i'm sheeping here

but here are updated reads (order doesn't matter within categories):

Town: {Paradox, Creature}
Probtown: {A50, jmo}
Null-town: {Gamma, NSG} (Gamma by shitty D1 wagonomics)

Working on sorting: {Gamma, NSG, Jay, mutant}

Null-scum: {Luca, pintu}
Probscum: {Aneninen}

Edit: Heard he hasn't played scum in a while.

Not really at this point? One got cancelled and I've played two scumgames in the past few months on MU.

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca put Gamma at L-1 before realising it was L-1 and jumping off.

Why is that scummy?
Honestly I feel like Luca is more likely town cos I feel like some of my reasons for sussing him are silly and I can understand some of his frustration with being pushed

[Gamma Emerald]

You ever heard of

Laissez-faire

, Mutant?

Don't give me history lesson flashbacks because that gives me Vietnam flashbacks which then gives me further history lesson flashbacks.

I mean, I got full marks on 2/3 of my history exams but god did I hate my history teacher.


Also, if you're not going to interact then don't expect my read on you to get any better. In fact, if you're going to insist on being here without doing anything then I'd consider you a good kill for a vig.

broh I love history

Also I feel like the actual content of this post is kinda inconsistent from other postings earlier on the page

[Gamma Emerald]

1. He said jmo is right about the mod's vc links not being important. How is that a useful thing to point out?

2. Game-relevant maybe, but I don't think he's doing a whole lot in that post.

3. I disagree; Gamma's vote on me is what prompted Anen's vote.


You accuse me of

'nit-picking'

but I feel you're doing the same to me here.

What's this about point 3 and my vote on Luca prompting something? pls quote what it prompted, that would prolly help most

[Gamma Emerald]

Anen admitted that was based on ongoing game meta I believe

[Gamma Emerald]

anyway do you not feel the same way about gamma?

I guess I'm townreading Gamma most because of his activity rn.

Why my activity specifically?

How does asking this question benefit town?

Because it was such a weird tell I wondered where it came from

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly I'm kinda tempted to do so myself
to hell with it
VOTE: Mathdino

[Gamma Emerald]

Meh while creature isn't obvtown the NSG push is a legit thing he did. What's this "VCA" you say you got Mathdino and can we see it or are you just making up bullshit?

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
Alright I think that's fair

[Gamma Emerald]

hai
I might overturn my reads and just look at the game with a few reads I feel comfortable keeping (Mathdino and Luca as town being two)

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyone who takes stock in metareading creature has him as locktown
Gamma I believe
A50 by virtue of sharing a wagon
NSG should be locktowning him if she isn't

Look ill somewhat consider A50 scum but I'm really not considering Creature scum at this point
It's just more helpful to have other discussions and sort other players

Also i have reason to believe that talking about creature actually hurts the prospect of reading him

Actually no, he vanished again, this could very likely be scum creature that just popped up once
like wasn't Creature active in the beginning of JK9++?

[Gamma Emerald]

Re: 5 slots: Dude, if everyone outside those 5 slots is town, I'm a damn scumhunting legend, because it means people inside those 5 slots each have a 60% chance of rolling scum. You just can't claim a 60% accuracy based on an ISO alone. Townhunting works wonders.
And even if I'm wrong and one scum is outside those 5 (which is likely, due to Jay, jmo, NSG), that's still a 40% accuracy rate within those 5 slots, which is significantly better than random.
I get the feeling you think this is unfair. And to be fair to you, you'd think that as either alignment.
To get out of a PoE scumread, you basically argue that I'm townreading scum, or that the other people in my lynchpool are scummier than you.

Re: Creature: Good catch.
You can't activity-tell Creature while complaining about his activity, or while calling him scum early on. You activity-tell him by leaving him to his own devices and seeing if he picks up interest in the game entirely on his own. I realised this about halfway through, and considered asking everyone to stop talking about Creature, but "WOW MATHDINO STOP CONTROLLING THE TOWN", so I didn't.
My thought process around that time was, if Creature is scum after all, he's 100% going to be today's lynch once people realise he's checked out of the game. But it takes a long time to realise he's checked out (usually results in him getting prodded), so I'm really just better off assuming he's town for now until proven otherwise.
Lo and behold, the very next page, he showed up despite being townread and started doing shit.
My read progression on Creature was more tactical than reads-based. Wanted to see what he'd do if people trusted him (which I do, if he's town).

Re: Walls: Ughh you actually want me to do that? That was a "might".

Ah so it's the timing of his appearance, idk about that but if Creature

does

end up flipping scum you're pretty locktown

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Luca Blight

Seems fine to me now, so this will be where I want the Lynch to happen for day 1.

badvote
would use one of giggles' memes but can't seem to find one

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's get spicy:

VOTE: jmo16mla

You know what I'm actually down with this; for all his early-game bluster about getting the game going jmo has been a complete non-entity
VOTE: jmo16mla

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait, Keysor Soze is playing?

nope

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah
I think we were all in Divergent Mafia (me creature and keyser)

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Luca Blight

Seems fine to me now, so this will be where I want the Lynch to happen for day 1.

This is worrying me!

1- Jay clearly does not SR Dino (or he would have voted him, or -at least- not voted the person going mostly against Dino)
2- However, Jay doesn't sheep Math when he acknowledges Town!Dino's good enough
3- Even further, Jay is trying to start a new wagon. This clearly an attempt to divide the Town and avoid being on the same wagon with certain people.

Conclusion: Jay is now IN my lynch/vig pool.

Wait what
how is this all scummy

[Gamma Emerald]

Why those 3
How long do we have again? I think anything can still be pushed

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm kinda concerned about you townreading me but considering me as a wagon option, not suspecting you off it but I don't want any suggestion of me as a wagon if someone is townreading me or I feel it could end up like what happened in Mini 1840 (will link if anyone wants it)

As for my picks
Lynching: probably jmo or mutant, but I might be swung to someone else if it's not Luca or Math
Vigging: if we don't lynch jmo he's my first pick, otherwise prolly mutant

[Gamma Emerald]

1054 is pretty convincing
VOTE: Jay

also are you guys dense
the fact that aneninen has been the top wagon for days on end now with literally no one picking up the bait almost ensures that he's scum

we're at the point where we need to double-deadline-lynch

i'm good with Jay-Aneninen

lol r u using his unexpected stall tell against him

[Gamma Emerald]

@jmo, when you can, could you give some reads on a few people with, at the very least, brief explanations? I skim read your iso and you seem a little like a closed book in that aspect.

Yeah, so I'm going to be honest, I really don't have any right now.

Ive liked math for town the entire game, hes posting a lot and contributing to the game. I would like to see him later on in the game to see if I can really trust him.

Gamma is meh.

golden paradox could be scum, who knows.

Gamma just made a good post about jay vote hopping and thats particularly what i look for when looking for scum, so im down with that vote for now. so.

How am I meh? Does my point on Jay have any impact on your read on me?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay guys this is really not okay
i want us to get one out of two of our lynches done within the next 36 hours

Votecount 1.5

Aneninen(4)

~ Almost50(51), JaydragonKing(80), Mathdino(218), Luca Blight(159)

jmo16mla(3)

~ northsidegal(53), Creature(80), Gamma Emerald(168)

mutantdevle(2)

~ Aneninen(41), Pinturicchio(48)

Mathdino(1)

~ TheGoldenParadox(38)

JaydragonKing(1)

~ jmo16mla(57)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ mutantdevle(71)


Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-03-13 13:20:00)

@Paradox:

A50 and I are never getting D1 lynched. You know better than to park a vote there with the deadline coming up. You've made your statement, you got your reactions. Move your vote.

@mutant:

bro unless you have a fantastic case on Gamma, that vote is really not useful

@Creats:

I feel like jmo is town. Did you feel differently from his ISO or are you voting for lurking?

@NSG:

are you really going to stick by your "never going to vote anyone unless i want to murder them on the spot" playstyle when we need 2 wagons for claims

@jmo:

NSG's right about Jay, regardless of her alignment. If you're having trouble getting reads, then just sheep your strongest townread.

I feel like this town is too resistant to sheeping, which is ironic considering most of them can't get any reads on half the playerlist.

Edit: thanks luca, updated VC to reflect vote

Why are you not firing anything off at me
I'm on the same wagon as nsg and creats

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, thank you. I was not ok voting for Aneninen if that implied risking Jay, as I'm not scumreading her.
VOTE: Aneninen

This pings me as well - not only is it strange logic to not vote Anen, but I don't feel he has a good enough reason to '

not scumread

' Jay to justify such a stance.

Honestly yeah his voting here is wacked but rn I'm townreading pin cos the type of paranoia he displayed on me is uber-towny

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I'm happy with my vote.

what suddenly made you happy with your vote there?

My vote was going to put Anen at L-2 which I was fine with but then I saw Pintu's vote and saw my vote would put him to L-1 which I was hesitant to do because of a potential hammer - but I decided to vote anyway since any premature hammers would basically be a scum claim. I then looked into Pintu's reason for voting and it just wasn't adding up to me. It felt scummy and I don't think Pintu has ever mentioned a desire to vote Anen and I don't think he's ever scum read him (I might be wrong on that though). At first, it felt like a reason to justify not voting for Anen which made me think Pintu was scum and hence I was further uncomfortable with my vote because scum on a wagon usually means a mislynch. But the more I thought about it the more it felt like a last minute attempt to get on the wagon to bus a declared doomed scum buddy.

I'm not really up for a Pintu wagon since my main basis for now suddenly being suspicious of him is that he's potential buddies with Anen. If Anen were to flip town, I could still consider this vote be due to Pintu's inexperience - An inexperience I can relate to because I remember wanting to be on every lynch that goes through regardless of my read as I thought it was the townie thing to do which I only started dropping on my first game on this site.

I already stated I'm voting Aneninen because I'm following Dino and I've declared myself unable to read Aneninen. I also liked the wagon's composition until you got in here, and thought exactly the same thing you are saying about me: bussing on a declared doomed scum buddy", are you projecting yourself on me for some towncred if Aneninen flips scum?

Why ask a pointless question like that? Obviously, my answer is no regardless of my alignment.

And I would have been voting before you had I not thrown shade at those who abandoned the Gamma wagon just because math left.

wait what
also response to your wall of "unanswered questions" coming. prepare to get torn apart, because I'm like halfway through and your points already seem to be in shambles.

[Gamma Emerald]

1121: The what now tell?

1123: I was trying to cull the bad votes off the vote count. From your POV, jmo was an acceptable and viable wagon. NSG's vote was RVS though and Creature was already scumreading Aneninen.

Also didn't say anything to Anen or Pintu because their votes seem fine from their POVs.

actually wait nevermind I was a dummy-dumb when I posted 1121
Also I see what you were doing in 1123 but honestly you should have addressed me as well cos if those two left I'd be left on a vanity vote

[Gamma Emerald]

You think A50 and I flashwagoned pintu after pushing Aneninen all day?

holy fuck dude

indeed
TGP please think through the scumteams you're proposing a bit more
Pedit: UNVOTE: but if he vanishes with no content again I want you to at the very least accept a jmo vig

[Gamma Emerald]

Finally getting around to mutant devle's wall of "unanswered questions"
38+39 I responded to Math in 202, ok
204 I'm pretty sure I responded to Math's response by telling him I still didn't see it?
209 that was clearly answered by jmo stating it was to get the game going. I should have stated that but I don't really think it's necessary to tie off loose questions.
236 also got answered, I think jmo pointed it out?
249 wasn't actually a question; it was a jab at A50 because I wanted him to not have an excuse to lurk away.
257's response kinda got lost in the wall. However my general response can be seen in how I reacted to the two votes on me from Anen and whoever else voted me that time frame.
270 I'm gonna address this later
271 honestly he already answered in 152, so eh. Didn't note it though so it's a fair cop
283 what the fuck? I'm fairly certain Luca responded. Infact I checked and it's

the next post

. I don't think you actually care about looking for the resolutions, you're just trying to sling mud at me any way you can.
292 wasn't exactly responding to a serious comment so why should I be hounding down an answer? This is a

very questionable

poke as it's not even caring about context of the question at all. And also Mathdino answered so

again

, not caring for the truth, just wants his lynch. Keep on going Manfred.
343 I forgot about that. This is the second question that Jay hasn't answered (270 was the first) and again I'm not finding any issues with your point here, but this also raises concerns about Jay.

@Jay:

why the fuck haven't you been answering my questions?
370 was rhetorical in a sense. The point was to get people to reconsider their reads on jmo, if they did so why should I care how they respond, they're fixing their reads.
378 was me poking Creature for content. If he doesn't respond it's not really my burden to drag him into the thread and beat the answers out of him.
434 I didn't pursue this because I realized my question was stupid, he was already pretty open about it
596 wasn't as much a sorting question as much as me being pissed someone said I was "in my own world". I'd already kinda made up my mind it looked like discrediting.
604 lmfao what a shitty way to end your wall bro. No one responded so I felt like it was clear and everyone was just not bothering to state it specifically.
And for the little closer about how you were "skimming": yeah fuck no, no way you miss a response on post afterward with the way you started this. You're fucking scum. Also I'm gonna do some historical reading cos I remember this same exact push being done on me before and idr which alignment it was. But until then bye bye.
VOTE: mutantdevle
I was having doubts about him but this made me not care about those doubts

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not okay with vigging pintu and I will hella oppose that action

[Gamma Emerald]

Please don't comment on the worth of vigging pintu vs Anen

Speaking as a PR hunter, any further commentary on that makes it more likely scum will figure out who the vig is. Avoid PR spew

Edit: Gamma then wtf do you suggest we do with vig

Vig someone who's not obvtown by reactions to other players?

[Gamma Emerald]

top tho

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm still saying Pin is obvtown imo. If you can demonstrate how his paranoia of me comes from scum I'll give in but on no other terms will I do so.

[Gamma Emerald]

Finally getting around to mutant devle's wall of "unanswered questions"
1) 38+39 I responded to Math in 202, ok |

I never said you didn't respond to this. I said you didn't respond until math called you out for not responding. Huge difference.

|
2) 204 I'm pretty sure I responded to Math's response by telling him I still didn't see it? |

Yes but you never pursued it which indicates a lack of care.

|
3) post=#9992930]209[/post] that was clearly answered by jmo stating it was to get the game going. I should have stated that but I don't really think it's necessary to tie off loose questions. |

Because you don't care. Besides, jmo never explicitly states this is the reason.

|
4) 236 also got answered, I think jmo pointed it out? |

Ahh yes fair enough.

|
5) 249 wasn't actually a question; it was a jab at A50 because I wanted him to not have an excuse to lurk away.
6) 257's response kinda got lost in the wall. However my general response can be seen in how I reacted to the two votes on me from Anen and whoever else voted me that time frame. |

Saying "chill the fuck out" is hardly engagement with a convertsation though IMO.

|
7) 270 I'm gonna address this later |

Umm okay... but my point will still stand that you didn't originally care about the answer.

|
8) 271 honestly he already answered in 152, so eh. Didn't note it though so it's a fair cop
9) 283 what the fuck? I'm fairly certain Luca responded. Infact I checked and it's

the next post

. I don't think you actually care about looking for the resolutions, you're just trying to sling mud at me any way you can. |

My bad, I appologise for that point.

|
10) 292 wasn't exactly responding to a serious comment so why should I be hounding down an answer? This is a

very questionable

poke as it's not even caring about context of the question at all. And also Mathdino answered so

again

, not caring for the truth, just wants his lynch. Keep on going Manfred. |

This one I missed because of the way I was checking if the questions were answered as I was using CTRL+F to search for the post numbers as a reponse. Since he did not quote your post, I missed his response. Though that's my fault for not reading the next few posts after your question to see if such situation had occured.

|
11) 343 I forgot about that. This is the second question that Jay hasn't answered (270 was the first) and again I'm not finding any issues with your point here, but this also raises concerns about Jay.

@Jay:

why the fuck haven't you been answering my questions? |

Why haven't you been pursuing them? Obviously Jay ins't any better for not answering but your lack of pursuing shows a lack of care.

|
12) 370 was rhetorical in a sense. The point was to get people to reconsider their reads on jmo, if they did so why should I care how they respond, they're fixing their reads. |

Fair enough - my bias against you made me assume it wasn't supposed to be rhetorical. That's actually kinda townie.

|
13) 378 was me poking Creature for content. If he doesn't respond it's not really my burden to drag him into the thread and beat the answers out of him. |

But why ask him for reads if you don't actually care? Whether not he is posting isn't your burden either. (Unless you are scum buddies and you are trying to encourage him to avoid falling into his scum meta).

|
14) 434 I didn't pursue this because I realized my question was stupid, he was already pretty open about it
15) 596 wasn't as much a sorting question as much as me being pissed someone said I was "in my own world". I'd already kinda made up my mind it looked like discrediting.
16) 604 lmfao what a shitty way to end your wall bro. No one responded so I felt like it was clear and everyone was just not bothering to state it specifically. |

That's a low effort assumption IMO (though it's clear I can hardly criticise for making assumptions).

|
17) And for the little closer about how you were "skimming": yeah fuck no, no way you miss a response on post afterward with the way you started this. |

I mean, did I not say I started skim-reading specifically at the end because I felt I was becoming repetitive?

| You're fucking scum. Also I'm gonna do some historical reading cos I remember this same exact push being done on me before and idr which alignment it was. But until then bye bye. |

Well if this kind of push has happened to you before then maybe the issue lies within your playstyle?

|
VOTE: mutantdevle
I was having doubts about him but this made me not care about those doubts

Obviously, my wall was overkill. But that's just how I tunnel (and kinda the point of doing so). My main point within all these points is that you don't fully care about responses to your questions which would suggest the answers don't matter to you too much because you don't need to sort people. Sure, you do pursue a few points here and there and sometimes your questions get answered so you don't need to but there are many examples where you have a lack of follow through and that's scummy.

First off what the fuck? You are

aware

you're tunneled but you don't care to fix that? That feels like you're just saying you're tunneled to look towny. Major league ew.
1) Well I wasn't really conscious of the response until then
2) Well I believe I got the answers anyway so why should I have?
3) what is because I don't care? And just because it wasn't explicitly stated doesn't make it not true.
5) no thoughts?
6) But it's still a response, so meh
7) ...
9) I'm sorry but I'm not going to forgive you just because you apologize. Since you were clearly paying attention to earlier things this one comes off as very inconsistent.
10) how about instead of ctrl-f'ing for those you read the thread?
11) Since I forgot I asked those questions.
12) Alright. Though again why are you so okay with having bias?
13) I wanted reads cos if he can't make reads then he very probscum. Whether he's posting isn't my burden after that poke because I'm trying to get content out of him politely. And my intent was to get him to town up if he was town.
15) No thoughts either?
16) eh okay then. And also I think I should have pushed it more cos if I did we wouldn't be in this idiotic gamestate
17) As I said, it's kinda a bad look when you miss a response one post after like you did. And yeah it's a playstyle issue but that doesn't mean something can't be a common scum push. The player Twoinamillion has a meta of being pushed by scum as town for his playstyle.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nope not giving this up until you can give a very good reason why that point is wrong
If he gets lynched tomorrow with no one ever having given a counter to my towncase on pintu that whole wagon should get nuked anyway
And no I don't want pintu eliminated by any town means

[Gamma Emerald]

Really? who all did you have to lynch him? How is leaving Pin to lylo a liability?
And the idea of Anen being vigged I'm mildly against but not as much as a pin lynch/vig

[Gamma Emerald]

No? Why are you asking that?

[Gamma Emerald]

No? Why are you asking that?

So you're not 100% on him (as you obviously should be on yourself), and thus you need to be a good team player and accept the fact nobody hard TRs pintu like you do.

Well they should if they're properly analyzing his play. Same question to you: how is Pin's paranoia of me not explicitly towny?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay mutant please try that again but don't respond in line, use the numbers I used and respond to each number in order. With the previous post it was okay cos there was other content to the post but that's just an empty quote when the in-line responses are removed.

[Gamma Emerald]

0) I think that definition of tunneling you had is called hard pushing. This explanation is acceptable though.
1) Well I did care it's just that when I was initially reading I kinda glossed over the response.
2) Because he later gave the explanation of the whole plan for NSG. Anen I don't recall if he stated anything on that afterward but I think I might have given it up because of his explanation of his past Anen history?
3) What I mean by not caring to tie off loose questions is I don't think I need to say "oh I already have the answer to this" if a question gets resolved in one way or another. And the way I could tell what jmo was trying to do was reading his posts for implicit intent. It's like hardclaiming versus softclaiming a role, where with hardclaiming you are giving a very concrete statement but with softclaiming you're letting others draw their own conclusions.
5) I felt like you'd have something to say about what I was thinking about A50 but ok
9) Practice what you preach my friend, you're literally casing me on me not being 100% attentive.
10) eh whatever, it's still strange you'd miss things so close to the responses they can be on the screen at the same time but I'll give you some botd (doesn't mean I'm gonna unvote you, I still feel somewhat confident in what caused my vote earlier and there's always the possibility you made that mistake as scum)
11) Well I did forget, because enough things happened to take my mind of them. I'll not say that it's always a thing because I've had times I have brought questions back up (though I can't recall one of the top of my head, it's in there somewhere), but I feel like it was acceptable to forget them because Jay was enough of a non-entity to not make me go "you've been posting and yet haven't answered this wtf"
12) ok then, thanks for being open about it. I also try to be mindful of that, see me mentioning that my Anen scumread was partially OMGUS
13) Addendum: if he gave reads I would have poked him on those (as I have done when he did but since he didn't when I asked I didn't see the benefit of poking at that again. Current read of Creature is nullscum cos his activity is questionable and I still feel the one post I called him on sucks ass.
15) Felt you'd want to comment on how I'd made up my mind on it being discrediting.
17) I think you could have made that mistake as scum or town and that's a more reasonable explanation than you intentionally missing things but again you should check your privilege cos you aren't really applying what you said in 9 to this, you're just assuming it's all scum-motivated

[Gamma Emerald]

Well they should if they're properly analyzing his play. Same question to you: how is Pin's paranoia of me not explicitly towny?

This is weird considering you automatically SCUM READ ME for my paranoia of you.

Quote the post where I specifically said that? I don't remember saying that specifically, I only recall being a bit confused at why you were shocked at me asking you to vote with me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, first of all: I am the better vig option. Sorry Gamma, but Dino is right: the stupid wagon on me was a death sentence as I'm not a PR. Town already made that mistake and there's no turning back. And yes, stupid wagon, fucking stupid wagon, because almost all the reads about me on this game were "that post from Pin looks like newb!town" or "I've seen "newb!scum playing like Pin". I subscribed to this game to play with experienced players to learn quickly and be contributive, but no matter how much effort I took (and yeah, a lot of effort using google translate almost the entire time to use the exact words I'm trying to say), no one really cared about what I had to say in this game. "You overexplain yourself" of fucking course I do, I don't speak fluent english, I'm here because of that. I really tried to be helpful, but it was impossible. Please, lynch or vig me this day, as I assume I will be more helpful being dead than alive in this game.

No, you're paranoia of me was very towny, you should not be folding to others suspicion of you like this
I'll ask one last time to everyone: why should I not be townreading Pin for the reasons I am? I need reasons why the specific thing is not town-indicative.

[Gamma Emerald]

When I joined I actually got a fair shake to do my thing, but maybe that's because I didn't play with any super-scary older payers until a few games in (the first game where I felt like my newness was pronounced was probably The Thing Mafia). It might have helped that I learned quickly though, and had a previous game offsite to help me get the awkwardness of being new out. But it's possible I got lucky since Mathdino faced the same issue apparently.

[Gamma Emerald]

I voted mutant PRECISELY to see how pintu will react when the wagon built on, and I wanted you to sheep me to build it up, only you beat me to it, and I assumed you were thinking the same thing I was thinking!

I'm considering this possibility actually but I still want that countercase

[Gamma Emerald]

@Dino: NO! We lynch Pintu in hopes we catch the RoleCop NOW! We vig mutant. Thank you.

Why would Pin be the rolecop in this situation? If he's trying to redirect off of mutant would mutant be the more likely RC?

[Gamma Emerald]

ok fine
mutant doesn't have enough scum meta for me to differentiate here

VOTE: Aneninen
we can do this

Read on mutant without meta? Cmon you should think it through more man

[Gamma Emerald]

why am I on math
VOTE: mutantdevle

[Gamma Emerald]

i didn't even notice pintu voting mutant lol

Honestly, I didn't either. I was confused at first as to why A50 suddenly pounced on Pintu but his logic does make sense by his assumption IMO.

A50, why do you want me vigged just because Pintu suddenly got off my wagon once it gained traction, has it not occurred to you that he might have jumped off because he didn't want to be part of a mislynch? Of course, from your perspective, you'd probably need my flip to confirm that. So, at the very least, my flip would incriminate Pintu fully. But honestly, I don't think we need my flip to see that Pintu is scum.


Btw @Gamma, would you reevaluate your town read on Pintu if I was to flip town?

I'm already re-evaluating, but I feel like your town flip would make me consider it less. What will make me reconsider it more is if someone can counter my argument for town!Pintu.

[Gamma Emerald]

This push against the mutant wagon feels sudden tbh

[Gamma Emerald]

This push against the mutant wagon feels sudden tbh

In what way? Sudden in that it came together quickly or sudden resistance to it?

Both honestly

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually you know what While I still dislike a Pin vig I'm on board with lynching Anen now

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd say if anything was a counter-wagon then it was Pin's, started by NSG based on little or nothing. Her reasons for not wanting an Anen lynch also weren't up to much.

I'm also lacking townreads; I feel Gamma, Creature and Paradox are Town, and that's all I'm comfortable with at the moment. I've also paranoid of a Math/Paradox scumteam, but I'll leave that theory until a later date.

What are you seeing between those two?

[Gamma Emerald]

I might have misunderstood you but if I answered your post about me which took place a couple of days ago, would it change anything?

Also, call me pelutant if you wish, but at least I had a CASE against Mutantdevle. (As for this, NSG and Gamma had cases against me. Don't you find it strange that neither Almost50 nor Mathdino referred to them? Nor those who were sheeping him?)

Where did I actually have a case against you?