Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 27, Zar wrote:Gotta keep in character, I guess? ##Vote: tammy.
btw, mycirclejerkteam thinks espy is the most likely player to have waged scum tokens into this setup... regfan met him irl and apparently he couldn't stop talking about how much he loves being scum and all these evil mustache twirling plans he had in mind for future scum games, so...
The money is not in your mouth!I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 48, Untrod Tripod wrote:In post 46, ActionDan wrote:Although
@Mod: When you say "protection from 2 kills", is that protection spread over 2 or more people or the same person?
how about you figure out the specifics of what the fuck you're talking about before you start talking down to people
see you in 30 pages
I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 61, vezokpiraka wrote:Imagine how unlikely are scum to use a kill on the same person with the same sign match.
With that clarification choice one seems better, yes.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 162, Shadoweh wrote:Like how I spent 5 tokens to be town!
I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Did you ever say why you thought UT was scum? (I also suppose this is an independent read from Ceph.)
Shadoweh wrote:It's really simple, protection doesn't work very accurately. It's better to have less effective protection that gives information then it is to have more effective protection that might not do anything at all.
And mineI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 485, vezokpiraka wrote:In post 480, Gammagooey wrote:hihi
marquis baneing me I think is a little mediocre but considering that I baned him for literally no reason (not even gut this time, I just wanted to bane someone for something that would look like not-RVS to get people out of that mindset even though it basically still was) I can't reaaally hate on him for it
Thinking UT is scum for being generally aggressive and catty is super dumb because that is just UT as a person
I will actually read things and maaaybe even have opinions tonight
definitely maybe
How can you read this and not immediately want to burn this at the stake? Seriously.
I do. more now than before!
Oh Shadoweh, be a dear and please remind Greyice of his performance in Hourai's game (years ago). If he wants a policy lynch that should point him in the right directionI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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30 to 47 pages in a day. Why.
my observations in those 30 pages have been limited to scum reading gamma and thinking that shadoweh has produced just enough town vibes to make her likely town if the fact that it is likely she spent a token or two to be town is taken into account.
I don't think UT is scummy (yet not exactly bursting with toown flavor) though i can understand how other people arrived at that conclusion.
I don't have townreads / scummreads on anyone else reallyI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Since lm behind on this game due to my hiatus Im going to try a simple approach that doesn't possibly feel like I'm a wet log
There are two major wagons on TTH and espionage atm. I haven't a clue on either. So for of you who think you do, please give concise reasons why or why not I should vote either or none of them.
ThanksI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 1653, Shadoweh wrote:I'm really insulted you put me in the same category as TTH and ActionDan.
One of us...? One of us!
There's nothing wrong with TTH detecting TSO. Even if he didn't have a particular role he was planning to use associated with it, detecting any one person yields as much information as any other, that is to say, little, so it doesn't matter much and you might even come out with some niche information that no one else has.
Is there a particular reason antihero replacing out matters?I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 1659, TellTaleHeart wrote:In post 1646, Marquis wrote:In post 1595, Titus wrote:@Singer,
I started that wagon on TTH with the intent of dragging him back into the game and getting involved. I'm not a big fan of actually lynching him. I'd rather focus on getting stable townreads and lynch whoever isn't actually in said group. Then we can take what we learned. I don't think much would be learned from lynching TTH. Lynching someone people are actually pushing as scum seems to be a better idea.
We also have two lynches today if we fit them both in by the day deadline.
oh
so you're one of those people too
before we potentially get into a discussion i don't want to make last any more than 1 post
please tell me why tth is not someone who "people are actually pushing as scum"
because this is a very clearcut statement and i want to know how far i can try and think about titus things before i get any repeats
also fun fact i just found out it's double day? i get townpoints for that right
No, no townpoints for you. And the bluster doesn't get you any either.
There's two ways you can interpret vezok's results on me. You can either think I'm a town special that wants to use my role on DV or you can think I'm scum gathering intel for a kill / some other nefarious purpose. You have a distinct and very clearly stated "not town" read on DeasVail himself, so the former conclusion should come much more naturally to you. Yet, you don't unvote and you actually go so far as to subtly push me to claim more information. Both these are scum motivated and completely inconsistent with your read on DV.
You are scum, sir.
Wouldn't a vote on you depend more on your read on DV and Marquis' read on you, than on his read on DV? If you can show evidence that the first two were not present in the vote I would agree with youI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 1668, TellTaleHeart wrote:No, I'm talking just about vezok's result here and the implications of it.
A "I don't know" read on DV doesn't translate into "anyone targeting him is clearly obvscum, let's lynch her." Heck, even a really strong townread doesn't necessarily translate to "anyone targeting him is obvscum" though it gets you closer and makes the jump feasible.
I understand the argument you are using. I agree with it. But I was asking if there was anymore to marquis' vote than that. I have since read his iso from day 2 and there is, though not actually connected to the point you're pushing. I also don't think your characterisation of Marquis 'damning' you over it is correct as it's an afterthought mentioned after antihero switching out and something about meta. However I think marquis's reasons on the whole are weak. That is my conclusionI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 1678, Titus wrote:AD, are you an incredibly smart person who has english as a second language or an aspie? That language is stilted and awkward.
I sometimes assume an affected persona when posting. It's a mechanism that serves me wellI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 1686, Titus wrote:In post 1685, ActionDan wrote:In post 1678, Titus wrote:AD, are you an incredibly smart person who has english as a second language or an aspie? That language is stilted and awkward.
I sometimes assume an affected persona when posting. It's a mechanism that serves me well
When? Because it just makes me want to lynch you.
Whenever it suits me, it can be in one post, and not in another from the same gameI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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Has marquis explained his tth read properly yet?
Thats about were i was last. been a couple of shitty days hence so pardon me etc.
Also the chance shadoweh used town tokens on this game is like 100 percent so again shes probably town. I only say this because suspicion her way i see is cropping upI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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@titus/singer : i have no compunctions about working with you persay. This game is incredibly long both in wall posts and page numbers so I'll be able to give you a read/analysis of any one or two particular players at a time. Make a suggestion and ill go from thereI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2207, fferyllt wrote:In post 2204, ActionDan wrote:@titus/singer : i have no compunctions about working with you persay. This game is incredibly long both in wall posts and page numbers so I'll be able to give you a read/analysis of any one or two particular players at a time. Make a suggestion and ill go from there
I really don't like seeing you take a consulting stance like this.
I'll be forming my own opinions with the advantage that they will be relevant to other's interests. For now ill look at esp and CDB.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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I come with analysis!
Specifically on Espeonage.
In post 503, Espeonage wrote:nah I'm not and I can even proves it like right now.
1. If I was scum I'm fairly sure I would have noticed the game had started.
2. I actually spent token(s) on making myself town because I want to win TM.
3. The only time I don't choose scum when given a choice is when I really want to win or need to do it to eradicate choice meta. Both of those need me to be town.
I'm baning with OMGUS as soon as I find out who it was.
None of this proves anything. Even taking it at face value, how would "eradicating choice meta" be a priority in a game Espe "really wants to win"? For that matter, why would really wanting to win be something that varies significantly across games. We all play to win regardless anyway, so in that endeavor, choosing town would be the right thing to do anyway. I realize this is mostly tongue in cheek but it factors in to responses/posts later in the game and I feel compelled to gut it.
In post 506, Espeonage wrote:In post 502, Titus wrote:TSO, I asked you to read my posts because I felt you were misunderstanding me and I was repeating myself.
You think I lie for no reason???
The booze is for me tonight to try to make sense of this.
@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.
That sounds like null bulba. Pls don't declare things that aren't true.
hella yeah this game is gonna be easy.
In post 508, Espeonage wrote:Ok well I don't get an easy bane vote then.
But you're lies about bulba stand.
In post 512, Espeonage wrote:The point is that he can(TM).
And you gonna tell me that someone with established tonal tells that drew scum in TM isn't going to fabricate posts carefully? That's just not respecting Team Mafia.
Anyone can fabricate anything if they put their mind to it. But, Titus listed traits that I would presuppose would be more likely to be associated with Bulba town as opposed to her other experience of him as a scum lurker. Thus it becomes more probable that he's town (at least to her [it is far wiser to examine the content of someone's arguments/posts in any case whether carefully constructed or disjointed however]).
In post 513, Espeonage wrote:In post 511, Titus wrote:It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.
Ok see, that is much better, well done.
For example, in a game where I have read half a page, you're the closest thing to a scum read.
In post 517, Espeonage wrote:I didn't call you scum, you need reading comprehension.
The point I was trying to make is that you can spout a read but that doesn't mean it's right.
I'm going to give this the benefit of the doubt and assume this isn't an outright slip, but there's no point that's being made here. people can spout reads with or without the added bonus of reasons - which titus gave - to add and progress the gamestate (which means people being able to read them or adding to the volume of posts to discuss or what have you), you just happen to disagree with it. Also later on you question Tammy about having a problem with Mastin "voicing a town read" on TTH and believe me the strength of that read is stronger than here so this lesson is rather hypocritical.In post 1973, Espeonage wrote:Tammy what part of voicing a townread is ever bad for town?
---
In post 523, Espeonage wrote:Hey Titus. Quick question.
Why is buddying of any importance when there has been no flip yet?
In post 532, Espeonage wrote:In post 528, Titus wrote:In post 523, Espeonage wrote:Hey Titus. Quick question.
Why is buddying of any importance when there has been no flip yet?
Because we like people who like us. So scum can buddy by being likable.
@DV, What am I ingoring?
Town can also buddy so shit gets done. Come back after a flip.
pedit: LOL
This dialogue with Titus is quickly becoming needless pestering. It stops here but it's absolutely bereft of purpose. This exchange feels more like a fabrication of developing a scumread than a conversation.
In post 659, Espeonage wrote:Ok so at the end of page 23, I feel that Tammy is getting a bit agitated where she doesn't need to be. I mainly think her arguments are barking up the wrong tree and the excepts (I have yet to follow up on reading then in context) seem to be more of deflection over anything, which seems weird and Zar appears to be arguing the tree rather than the forest which is usually a sign of scum so I'm leaning towards voting.
@Red Wine Talk: That is the most fun game I have even played in and I was one of the first people dead. Anyone looking to learn how to do scum theater needs to read that game. I doubt there will be another example of how to both flail, and clear yourself from that.
In post 664, Espeonage wrote:
If it makes you feel better I am cautiously nullscum on Tammy. She is playing how I have seen her play as non hydra scum but I don't want to push it off such a small sample size as I have.
I will say that I am not ok with Tammy boon for the moment.
In post 667, Espeonage wrote:And now I want to ignore TamPire.
In post 673, Espeonage wrote:I already covered the your slot. Mostly deflection and I Tammy's wall felt very similar to the way she went about attacking me in Red Wine which means that she is probably either right or scum with you.
I will not clarify the Tammy pings.
If I'm getting this right suspicion is accruing due to a perceived similarity between tammy's scum theater in one game and play/walls in this one. And in that event, and considering the statement that tammy is either scum or "right", why would Espe choose to ignore the Empire part of "TamPire". That should be the person he should be looking into the hardest. Instead we're going to see an obsession with Tammy.
In post 697, Espeonage wrote:Hey Tammy, you know how you were during like the mid part of Unbalanced 2.
This is me telling you, you need to breathe.
Also btw, your explanation of why you attacked me in Red Wine is equatable to why I think you're attacking here as was picked up by Empire.
Ok got some pedits.
In post 705, Espeonage wrote:In post 698, Tammy wrote:Why are you trying to calm me down if you think I'm scum? Wouldn't I be faking my agitation in that case?
I have no idea what you mean by "as picked up by empire".
Dude, I don't know if you are scum. If you are town then there is no way I want to sever ties with you. This is going to be a long game, and we're going to need to be working together at some point over the course of this.
In post 967, Espeonage wrote:On that note, it's one of the reasons I was being iffy about my nullscum read on Tammy. I don't actually think I can read Tammy except in cases where she is being very town in her own way which isn't happening here.
It should be noted that by his own admission he can't definitely read Tammy on meta and tone alone except to conclude he can't townread her. Which is fine, that kind of distinction via meta and tone is something I do and most people do regularly.
In post 1409, Espeonage wrote:In post 1405, Tammy wrote:In post 1397, Espeonage wrote:Hey Bulba. Can you ask mollie if she thinks that Tammy's tone is town frustrated or scum default? She's seen both recently, they are both similar.
Why don't yu ask the confirmed fucking town that is actually playing in this game, has played more games with me, and can read me better.
See Tammy, the thing is that mollie has played with scum you very recently, I have a rapport with mollie as of recent and I don't have a good rapport with the confirmed town.
Now with that out of the way.
I'm getting more and more happy in my read that you're scum. Truth be told I found myself unapproving of the tth wagon simply because you were on it which took me by surprise tbh. Your tone here doesn't read to me like the frustrated got irl stuff tone as far as I can tell, which is about the only explanation I have for the amount of scumminess I am feeling from your posts. And even if that is the reasoning for your tone it still doesn't mean you're town, it takes it to null, at most. I don't have the most experience with you but I'm going off what I do have. And your responses to people here for the most part aren't looking town.
I'm pretty sure you're scum.
Vote: Tammy
gots a preedit come up
Logically, everything about this post is alarming. That same meta that was used before in Espe's Tammy read is employed here. Nothing has been added besides conviction; there is no attempt to get past tonality to figure out why tammy's responses to people don't look town for example (which remains vague as is anyway). I'd have expected even tidbits from a weighty vote like this one to include content. That said I find this post of his the towniest of them all. For some reason. But I'm going to ignore that. I almost feel like I made a Mastin-like assessment.
In post 972, Espeonage wrote:You self voting is a really bad sign though.
In post 988, Espeonage wrote:Current List of people ok with being Booned: Marquis
:does not compute:
I also don't understand why there was resistance to explaining why wagoning TTH wasn't a prospect beyond tammy's participation in that wagon
In post 1702, Espeonage wrote:In post 1698, Cheetory6 wrote:
Why did you spend your first ten posts chiding Titus instead of scumhunting?
Because I hadn't read. If I'm behind in games I will usually get in an argument with someone. It's the best way to get people chatting, good for getting fast reads. See Capcom for me trying to do the same kind of thing. Other examples are [REDACTED]
So you can't read him, but you're throwing a townread at him because ???????Espeonage wrote:I think Bulba might be town.
I've never been able to read him but just from a couple of posts and the things people are saying I'm going to go town.
Reasons. Yes I have a terrible time trying to read bulba. But I'm noticing some things that haven't come up in his play before and those make me lean town.
How did you start confidently scumreading her later this cycle then?Espeonage wrote:I don't actually think I can read Tammy except in cases where she is being very town in her own way which isn't happening here.
Thinking
Can you pull specific examples of that you're finding scummy about her responses/tone?Espeonage wrote:I'm getting more and more happy in my read that you're scum. Truth be told I found myself unapproving of the tth wagon simply because you were on it which took me by surprise tbh. Your tone here doesn't read to me like the frustrated got irl stuff tone as far as I can tell, which is about the only explanation I have for the amount of scumminess I am feeling from your posts. And even if that is the reasoning for your tone it still doesn't mean you're town, it takes it to null, at most. I don't have the most experience with you but I'm going off what I do have. And your responses to people here for the most part aren't looking town.
It's most of it. She usually respects and embraces reachouts in my experience. She even scumread mollie after she didn't react to a reachout from her. There's a disjoint and that usually means scum.
Responses in bold.
In post 1706, Espeonage wrote:In post 1703, Cheetory6 wrote:
Can you talk about these? Or is it just gut?Espeonage wrote:But I'm noticing some things that haven't come up in his play before and those make me lean town.
There are actual reasons. But if I say stuff he'll modulate play and I'm not solid on the read. I'd rather keep it close to chest for the moment.
If Espe "really wants to win" why not disclose these reasons that he thinks makes Bulba town. The claim that the reasons are reasons for bulba town are undermined by the fact that he hasn't seen this play before... so how would he know if it's town or not? As for the other bolded stuff I found of interest: The dialogue with Titus didn't go anywhere. There wasn't a quick read. Titus is apparently a townread now but certainly not because of what happened on page 23. I still find it hard to believe that in liu of inspecting the content of Tammy's posts, the response to a reachout (which was almost patronizing) would have skewed him to move to vote.
In post 2123, Espeonage wrote:If people want to the main reason as to why I cant let Tammy scumread go is because she is incredibly interested in pointing out how wrong the person who has the absolute least influential voice in the game is. Pick your battles and play the game.
This is not true at all. I haven't read most of them, but tammy's walls are organized enough that it's obvious she's talking about more than one person, even in different capacities, to warrant this denouncement.
In post 2141, Espeonage wrote:Ok what are people's opinions on TTh's case on Marq? Considering how solid it looked to me, I'm surprised that we're the only two votes on him.
As someone who actually read through that (being like, the one thing I did so far this game), I'm going to go ahead and state that TTh's Marquis case is nowhere close to ironclad. It's a good point but it has plenty of flaws if taken alone. If this "looks solid" to Espe it's clear to me it's a tacit admission he didn't read anything beyond TTh's post... nor quite obviously, my caveats directly following which might have helped him avoid this question.
All other posts made by Espe I either find alignment neutral or repetitive with the ones presented here.
My conclusion is that he's scummy. The most egregious thing being focusing on Tammy, regardless of reading solely into her meta/tone or whatever, and dropping attempting to read Empire during this period. It was a simple thing to answer his request to review his reads even (detailed and long as they were).
VOTE: Espe
I'll do CDB later today so sit tightI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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In post 2765, fferyllt wrote:This looked like a huge effortful post, but there's actually very little meat to it.
I'm going to ask the folks who have pledged their swords, bows, axes, etc to me for the day to move their votes to Action Dan. please and thank you.
Also, Cheetory - you're invited too!
It took 5 hours you knowI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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ActionDan He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Ffery....
I don't understand, how could you even think to type something like this:
this feels like you're calling a personality thing scummy.
I have maybe said one thing relating to Espe's personality including both his tone of posting and his personal relations with other players... and that was calling his reachout to tammy patronizing.
As for your other criticisms I really don't appreciate them frankly.
Like this 1 out of the 2:
You agreed with espe's point that titus' reasons for townreading bulba were weak, but you turned it into an "espe is likelier scum" point.
The lesson was bad. So?
Actually I didn't agree with him. I stated as an aside that in general titus' stated reasons for townreading bulba would be weak for me: Replace Titus and Bulba with 2 people of your choice and the result would hold. But the finer point here is what he made of those reasons coming from titus' unique POV. They were used as an attack on Titus much more so than anything else, which is what I found scummy.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2780, Cheetory6 wrote:I think the fact that he's saying that she's lying about Bulba's meta is wayyyyyyyy too strong
BASICALLY THIS.
THANKS GUY WHO'S VOTING FOR ME!
GEE WHIZ!I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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I mean I don't want to get sassy.
But you're arguing my own point that Ffery is voting me for and that you're sheeping.
@pedit:
I don't ever do associations before flips. So if you want to ask me "Do you think Titus is scum?" (because I gave my 2 cents on Espe) my answer would be that I haven't read her beyond the interaction with Espe... and from that alone I'd say it's possible, but I'm not feeling anything scummy from it.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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Also when you see something like
"Titus is probs town"
it's burden of alignment is on the one who posted it. Drawing associations here prematurely is unwise.
I've read your wall now and I'm just commenting on what you're saying connects Titus/Espeonage. individual points against them have either already been covered by me in the case of Espeonage or are points you'd have to press me to verify in the case of Titus.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2792, fferyllt wrote:In post 2783, ActionDan wrote:Ffery....
I don't understand, how could you even think to type something like this:
this feels like you're calling a personality thing scummy.
I have maybe said one thing relating to Espe's personality including both his tone of posting and his personal relations with other players... and that was calling his reachout to tammy patronizing.
As for your other criticisms I really don't appreciate them frankly.
Like this 1 out of the 2:
You agreed with espe's point that titus' reasons for townreading bulba were weak, but you turned it into an "espe is likelier scum" point.
The lesson was bad. So?
Actually I didn't agree with him. I stated as an aside that in general titus' stated reasons for townreading bulba would be weak for me: Replace Titus and Bulba with 2 people of your choice and the result would hold. But the finer point here is what he made of those reasons coming from titus' unique POV. They were used as an attack on Titus much more so than anything else, which is what I found scummy.
Oh the horror! and I was paraphrasing Nacho, how could it be?
I think even a deep and enlightening post about espe would ring a little hollow at this point. one case, on the player with the largest wagon, and then a fade with promises still on the table.
Oh come on. Why the mockery? If you're going to engage me, I expect you to do so with a little competence, especially with the call to rally the troops. I know this sounds stupid coming from me, but I think I deserve more than this.
@Shadoweh:
My memories of that game specifically of his slot were the VT claim and nothing more of consequence from his slot. I don't remember his lynch or the circumstances surrounding it. Regardless, I've decided to approach reads in ways that sap emotion and "feelings" from them (granted, I've got the one only; If you [or anyone else] have noticed I decided that my gamma scum read is stale)... This also would ignore meta. But, I guess for you I'll take a look-see at that gameI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2791, Cheetory6 wrote:Do you think I care?
You've made one significant post about one person. I have no idea what you think about anyone right now other than Esp. I'm down to sheep ffery on this vote for pressure alone if it means for you to start playing the game and start taking more actual stances.
Pitch three people you think might be scum and name two people you're townreading and why.
It's unconscionable, if I had the reads you had, to not care that my vote was on someone for pure sheep reasons instead of the person I thought was scum, to say nothing of the congruent opinions that we share.
I don't have 3 people I'm scumreading excluding Espe. And the only person that I have decided that I think is town is Shadoweh. The why part of that involves tokens and play that I thought was town enough to make it probable that she is town.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2800, fferyllt wrote:I dunno it seemed a fitting response to "I don't know how you could even think to type something like that".
forgive me for being incensed over seeing a huge wagon form on the basis of something that I literally could not make sense of.
pedit: I understand what you mean, but I guess that a better way to approach this would be to look through the scum games of his and see if something like this exists in any of them. Otherwise, it's meta that can't be relied on over play.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2807, fferyllt wrote:In post 2805, ActionDan wrote:fferyllt wrote:yes...seeing the wagon form. :/
no one likes getting lynched. (Unless you're Espeonage apparently)
point being, you haven't posted a damn thing after that wall, until a short while after my call for votes.
Well that's not really a point against me. I mean. honestly.
But even still you are always welcome to bash me for my content, if you so deign, on the condition that we simply stick to that instead whatever this is.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2801, Shadoweh wrote:I'm just under the impression the general haplessness he's played this game with is similar to how I felt about him in that game. I mean he wanted to out his Sign in one of his first posts.
So I skimmed his iso that game. hapless at his lynch? sure I guess, no resistance (~4 short posts around it plus he was ok with dying as long as his scumread died after). He claimed VT to stir things up though, meaning he had a bit of purpose, I don't think claiming sign here is in the same vein but I think the comparison between this game and that one is inconclusive anywayI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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Alright I looked through Singer's iso and I'd like preface this by saying the level of engagement with the rest of the playerlist is pretty amazing.
Also I think she's town. With a few ceveats.
It was often a bit difficult to follow reads because of the contributions by regfan were not overlapping with her own. However, Singer has managed not only to keep her reads intact and separated, but has managed to do so while developing them. The only one of importance that has remained untouched has been shadoweh's, but I'm pretty sure most everything else has had alterations whether small or big. That show's town motivation to constantly refresh reads and it's a feat that I think would be harder for scum to fabricate.
That said while I like this pattern in general, the most significant (and important to the gamestate) changes occur later and some of the reasons for them seem flippant to me. First and foremost my own; It's really upsetting to see a read flipflop (and very strongly) on me asking for some direction after being explicitly asked to work with others. Sure I've been in this game since the start but on the average past the first 30ish pages from which I didn't exactly have my head far into the game and which was dominated by a few far more vocal players, I might as well have been a replacee. 2ndly and lastly, The change of heart wrt Espeonage for a flurry of posts with Titus underwhelms me as does the stance that he's trying not to limit town's options when he was one of the main wagon anyway, which gives him an impetus to do that (not that he didn't resign himself to voting me anyway after and now is not around, after saying his own wagon was town driven).
I do like the change of heart wrt to TTH though. That looks a lot better than ^.
Besides this, the only thing Singer could have done better would have been to expand on her own reads a bit more timely. The TTH scum read was early, in fact the earliest, but there wasn't an explanation for it until a lot later. It would have been better than say, sparring with Titus about the wagon and her opinion of it for what seems like more than half of singer's ISO (at least the implications). I don't actually care much about this alignment wise besides an aside that Shadoweh's commentary on it was a bit over hostile but VERY understandable back god knows when.
So Yeah, I MUCH perfer Espe getting lynched over this slot.
Speaking of which.
@Ffery: Excuse me, if I fizzled out as you claim. I went to bed. Please tell me where Espe has been since he voted me? IT IS A MYSTERYI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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Has Nacho addressed me in the form of a question? I only know of his opinion through you.
I trust his ability to read AD because of our experience together playing games with AD. I think if AD is town he would/will pretty quickly convince Nacho of it.
Like if there's something more tangible than this that you feel l should talk about that I haven't covered in other posts (whether I've conflated your own words/posting with his paraphrased is irrelevant to me) I'm open to it, especially if it relates to the content of my previous reads/posts.
I'll take a look at this emotional response meta thing that apparently Nacho says CDB is peddling.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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After reading, I don't think that the comparison should have any stock put in it. Ignoring my self-vote (which I remember was intentionally hugely overblown because that was desparation [unless this is the particular post that CDB is using to compare to this game, which would be inexplicable because of the obvious differences), I can see myself writing my posts in a tone that I could, and indeed have, written as town. So not only is it not an apt comparison to compare that to one post here, but this isn't that different to when I am post as town.
I can sort of understand CDB using this form memory because I was going after him there, so maybe it left an impression.
If you really want to see an emotional me look no further than the wire large theme from which I replaced out due to rage, the only time ever.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4705348
This is almost uncannily similar to the offending post in this threadI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2953, hitogoroshi wrote:VC 70 (Major Day 1, VC 32)
(8)ActionDan:DeasVail, singersigner,T S O, Espeonage, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird, Titus [L-2]
(4)singersigner:Bulbazak, mastin2, Shadoweh, Untrod Tripod(Gammagooey)
(3)Espeonage:vezokpiraka, ActionDan, Cheetory6
I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 2964, fferyllt wrote:The wire game was an emotional game. I dunno. different sources maybe.
What is your Shadoweh read?
Btw fun fact; there are two wire games, both of which I was in.
My shadoweh read (one of like 2 at that time) has been a town one since 30 pages or so, but after looking over singer's iso and researching their back and forth, it's grown stronger.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 3015, Aronis wrote:In post 3013, vezokpiraka wrote:Cab we get back to the espe wagon? It's the only wagon I kinda like right now and this game is fucking dragging. We need to do two lynches in 5 days and we don't even have wagons.
How about we compromise? You vote AD and we lynch him, then immediately after that we can lynch esp.
Is there a better reason than pure numbers to demand a compromise via voting me when you have no particular lynch perference and could instead vote espe?I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 3024, Aronis wrote:In post 3021, ActionDan wrote:In post 3015, Aronis wrote:In post 3013, vezokpiraka wrote:Cab we get back to the espe wagon? It's the only wagon I kinda like right now and this game is fucking dragging. We need to do two lynches in 5 days and we don't even have wagons.
How about we compromise? You vote AD and we lynch him, then immediately after that we can lynch esp.
Is there a better reason than pure numbers to demand a compromise via voting me when you have no particular lynch perference and could instead vote espe?
Nope.
While I appreciate the honesty this is not a good reason for the demand from someone who actually has a perference.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 3062, T S O wrote:Singer's jump on me is fucking terrible, by the way, she doesn't even have a read on me.
Excuse me but do you have a read on me?I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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I read Tsos iso
My thought summing it up is basically:
It could be worse.
That describes his posting pre-page 55 or whenever he went vla.
There are 2 separate distinct interactions with Titus and 3 scum reads of import. Other stuff isn't really critical
The first interaction with Titus is about the open games and their relative townsideness post she made. Tso gets this wrong, flatly, and subsquently forms a nullscumread on titus due to percieved lying. This didn't get resolved and imo there was ample opportunity for TSO to rectify this read by careful reconsideration of the post and posts following it. That's a point against him. However in the 2nd interaction which is about boons and hotheadness Titus does herself no favors by accusing Tso of attacking people who are alternative boon votes etc. He carries himself well here. Taken together it's inconclusive. The scumread on titus does gain justification, but it's largely colored by how it was conceived.
Ut and vezok reads are whatever/fine I guess but underdeveloped/shallow, though considering the nature and frequency of their posts compared to Titus', that's to be expected. Null point
The bulb scumread though is a bit different. At one point Tso says he has more than one reason to bane Bulb, though there's only one specific post about him that was ever talked about that would allow tso to do that (About bulb losing a post he didnt really care about). This is actually an ok starting point, and is even followed through on after bulbs response, but whatever other reasons there were for majorly scumreading the slot are absent. I don't know why they would be. (Also they're not going to be those reasons he never thought he had to state that he may have attributed to UT)
So... Meh? The recent posts I think are worse than any of this. Especially the hipocracy of claiming singers vote was awful for following ffery when he did the exact same thing when voting me for the same reasonI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 3138, Gammagooey wrote:hey dan you're the only one left on espeonage's wagon
how does that make youfeel?
Sad and alone in the world. And not that it should, but increased confidence I'm voting scum
Pedit: it does doesn't it.I'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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In post 3106, Espeonage wrote:AD is wonky. He's either wrong about stuff or scum.
I had 3 reads at this point:
Shadoweh: town
Singer: town
Espe: scum
Your reads
Shadoweh: N/A
Singer: town
Espe: presumably, town
Since stuff = reads I'd like to know where simply the pluralization came fromI'll give you a moment to let that sink in-
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