Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835

[saberwolf]

wow, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to hate mastin for the same reasons. I'm interested to see if he can wall-post his way out of an already created BW

vote: mastin

[saberwolf]

thats so weird. I had my mind set on voting mastin for days now, while waiting for the game to start.

and yeah, mastin, please keep your posts to a small amount.

[saberwolf]

hohum, and DT. I think you should both just forget about it. Obv a misinterpretation occured on one/both of your parts, and I rather not see any tunneling going on which may be detrimental to the town.

[saberwolf]

DTM: I don't care about what you said in parentheses. I care about this:

Mastin still hasn't confirmed. What are the chances that he is reading the game so far.

That's defending.

@hohum: Why isn't your vote on DTM yet? You seem to agree with my post 20, so why are you still voting for Mastin?

you seem eager to derail a BW in progress and just as quickly start up a new one. Only difference is this one isn't RVS.

Not everyone plays the same. Some people will switch votes on the slightest whim, others need lots of hard evidence. There isn't enough yet for me to get out of RVS.

defending others does not [always] equal scummy.

[saberwolf]

my defending comment was a semi attack at nik, and was not used as a defence for hohum. take from it what you will though.

I agree with DT. Let's wait for more people to post before taking this bitchfest too far. We can look at this later if need be.

[saberwolf]

this is retarded guys. We have now effectively all pointed fingers at each other...so apparantly 4 of us are scum, and everyone else who is idling by is townie -_-

new topic: have any of you guys played with anyone else here in this game? any personal meta insight about them?[other than mastin]

[saberwolf]

you seem eager to derail a BW in progress and just as quickly start up a new one. Only difference is this one isn't RVS.

That was an attack? I think real reasons are much better for starting a BW over random reasons, thank you very much. Are you telling me you think the opposite?

to be honest, while our votes were in RVS, there was serious intent behind our votes. [actually, I'll just claim for me, and let the others claim that too if they want] I just don't want to see a lot of "mastiness" in this game, so I put my vote on him immediately, to either pressure an annoying player to dumb down his game [hopefully], or maybe get scum to slip up if we actually lucked out on the BW choice. However, I still agree with your overall statement, logical reasons make better reasons than random ones.

[saberwolf]

Ok, so if you guys are gonna do this, do it in an organized fashion so at least others can follow it.

those so far in this tunneling: In ONE post, can you please target each player [including myself] and analyze everything they have done, and why you think each one is scummy/not scummy in their own right?

[saberwolf]

Nikanor

Post 4: RVS vote, neutral.
Post 20: I'm a little suspicious of you commenting on kill kill's vote, It's RVS and even has an explanation with it, which is fine, but when I read the following:

@Kill-kill: Your random vote seems very out of place there. Where do you fall on the DTM-hohum debate?

I tend to read it as: I don't like where your current vote is, why not vote for DTM or hohum? I don't think this was intentional, I think it was just poor choice of how you lined up your sentences. When you attack's DT's post 11, I tend to disagree with what you think. I don't think the post was bitchy at all, it was a general comment saying that mastin hasn't shown up yet. However, I do agree that there is a slight defensive stance to the post, but defending other players is not [always] scummy.
Post 23 I don't like, for the pressuring on hohum. I didn't find your main argument for your vote that satisfactory for my tastes, and wasn't sure why you were trying to aggressively pull more votes on DT.

first real time of suspicion, scum points: 1

Post 24 is a valid claim on the OMGUS, and I agree.
Post 33 and 36 are neutral posts. Mainly opinion and logic reasoning.
Post 37 has me unsure of the contents..in a way, yes you are right, but in a way, you are also wrong. You WERE rather pushy with the vote switch request. Although rewording it like that makes it seem better than it was.
Post 45,48,49 nothing to read about.
Post 51, we are seeing you get aggressive again, but the points you raise are legit.

In summary, Nikanor for now seems legit, but just a tad bit pushy.

DTMaster

Post 5: RVS vote, neutral
Post 11: Gets a little defensive for Mastin, but nothing to arouse any of my suspicions.
Post 14: OMGUS post. Might be getting a little edgy in his defending
Post 16: Starting to get more defensive.

first real time of suspicion, scum points: 1

Post 19: DT makes a reasonable pro-town judgement call
Post 22: more defending, but at this point I can't blame him, as there is clearly a bit of tunneling going on now.
Post 26: goes from defensive to aggressive. I like that. It isn't too agressive, but enough to show that this is a man trying to show his innocence, and not trying to cover any tracks.
Post 30 can go both ways...on one hand, it is wise to wait for others to chip in [lurkers = bad] but it could also be an attempt to divert unwanted attention at scum.
I ignored posts 32,38,39. 41...sarcastic and rehashing is not worth my time.

In summary, DT gets edgy when pressured, and while I sympathise slightly for him being on the defending end, I also don't like how he handled some of the comments said against him. To his credit, he has made a decent effort with a couple of pro-town posts. Hope to see more of this later.

hohum

Post 6: I fully agree with this. Doesn't win any townie points from me, but I've warmed up to hohum here already.
Post 8,13,15: general comments, nothing special.
Post 21: showing signs of siding with nik
Post 28: misconstrued my efforts, but that's fine. Also your last comment is slightly anti-town sounding, although you are correct, your vote is your own.
Post 31, general comment/slight attack. To me, nothing too useful.
Post 35: surprises me by voting for who i thought was the guy he was siding with. Has legit reason though.
Post 42: LOVE this post, agree with him fully.
Post 47: nothing useful

In summary, hohum is my favourite of the three. He seems to keep his individuality, and doesnt let others speak for him. [ nik and myself] He plays his own game and seems to be playing with logic.

In conclusion

I would have to say its too early to place any of them in a role category. I'd say if anything though, I feel that

it is very unlikely that all three of them: DT, nik and hohum, are all mafia

. I would put nik on opposite sides of DT and hohum if any of them are scum. Other than that, got nothing else to contribute yet in analysis.

[saberwolf]

@hohum: So you're saying your random pressure vote on Mastin was more valuable than a vote with some (if little) basis on DT? That's the interpretation I'm pulling from your one answer that is anything close to acceptable.
hohum, some advice: Answer questions well, and your answers won't be questioned. You wonder why people keep asking you the same question? They're not stupid, you just haven't clearly laid out your answer to a degree they find acceptable. Instead of resorting to insult, perhaps you could clarify your original answer next time? It would save everyone quite a bit of trouble in the long run.

what I don't understand is why you haven't appealed to me then. I am in the same boat as hohum: I voted for mastin for the same reasons, and refused to switch my vote. Why haven't you tried to make me switch my vote? Why just focus on hohum? He may have agreed with you at one point [but then again, i partially did too], but you shouldn't target like that.

[saberwolf]

MOD: PLEASE PROD EVERYONE WHO HASN'T PARTICIPATED THUS FAR

Scott Brosius, Mastin, and Linkspartner have been prodded

I will begin looking for replacements for Mastin and Linkspartner if they don't post by tomorrow

-Fuzzy

[saberwolf]

/in before prod

Anyone want to hear my opinions on anything? Shoot away.

Do we really need to ask you? Just please post it anyways.

Just in case though:

Can you please post everything that you have gotten out of this game so far?

[saberwolf]

Post 9 –

Saberwolf

, how do you know Mastin? If you’ve played with him before or have seen him play in games, links?

I have played with him before, as well as have him replace into a game of mine. He tends to post super long walls of posts, and I hate it, hence my policy vote on him at the beginning.

[saberwolf]

Post 18 – Trying to keep the attention on Mastin. This could also be a defence for one of them (As he asks both of them to forget about it), more likely to be DT as he got the most heat.
Short stated, trying to keep us away from discussion.

I didn't do anything here related to mastin. I didn't say "HEY, shut up and just vote mastin", I simply tried to prevent the two of them from bickering over stupid stuff, especially as not everyone had been posting yet. If the posting were allowed to continue, we were bound to have two or three guys targetted with all the lurkers jumping on the BWs, which allows scum to blend in perfectly...oh wait, it's already happened.... You guys have all did exactly what I feared...the first three or four to start fighting are all targets, including myself.

[saberwolf]

Post 25 –

Saberwolf

, can you elaborate why DT’s defence of Mastin isn’t scummy to you?

Sure, it's because DT did have a valid point. Once again, it's all about the fact that only four of us had been talking the whole time, and that the others hadn't even posted yet. I don't think scum would worry about defending a scumbuddy when they are only at L-4, especially when the votes weren't even about current gameplay. I also wanted to throw out the point that defending somebody does not always equal scumslips, so I wanted to encourage defending others on all levels, so that we could gain information better. If everyone is too scared to speak up in another person's defence, well, that only helps scum.

[saberwolf]

Post 34 –

Saberwolf

, elaborate on the ‘semi attack’.
Also, why did you want to wait till the rest of the players checked in?

I simply wanted to show that I was putting a little pressure on nik. Why not full on attack? Because I wanted to wait until more people got involved. I don't want to give lurkers a free pass while only a handful of people start tunnelling on each other, for the reason of there's nobody else to target. I personally wanted to wait until just about everybody else got involved before allowing personal attacks to happen. If I were to just sit back and watch DT, nik and hohum post to each other, it is a guarantee that one of them will end up lynched first, and they may not even be anti-town.

[saberwolf]

Post 40 – 4 scum and the rest townies? What happened to the fifth? Also, what’s wrong with commenting on posts?

a bit of a sarcastic comment. I was saying we fail because since we were the only ones talking, we were all pointing fingers at each other and yelling scum. I wasn't trying to be mathematically correct, simply said four cause it was only four of us active.

[saberwolf]

Post 52 – Speaking for multiple players. Scummy.

Did and did not. Following my own views on defending players not being scummy, I refered to others having the same views as me, so in that sense I spoke for them, yes. However, I did write in parenthesis that I decided to let others speak for themselves if they wanted, and that I'll claim that part for myself, so in that sense, you are wrong. The only person I really defended was hohum, because we had the same reason for voting, so that is NOT multiple people.

Post 54 – Asking all the other players who are so far active for their thoughts, yet not doing it himself. Scummy.

I really don't like you at this point, not to mention this post is really incorrect. I posted my own analysis later on. I helped organize the chaos...what have you really done so far? Spamming and throwing dirt at everyone does not help us at all.

Post 67 –

Saberwolf

, why are you already looking for connections when you don’t think any of the three is scummy?

I never said that. Quit putting words in my mouth. For all I know, those three could be all werewolves and/or mafia, but I didn't want to see tunneling occur when we still had so many people left to post in the game. I did a reasonable analysis of what had occured so far, and I think the few connections I made are very valid. If you wish to attempt to tear them apart, be my guest.

(All posts from Saberwolf)

[saberwolf]

As of now, the following look scummy:
-Hohum
-DT
-Saber
-Kill
-Toro
-ThAd
-Scott

The above 3 are more scummier than the latter 4.

This is not helpful at ALL. This is virtually a list of those who have posted so far, other than you. Try to narrow it down more, even though you did say the top three are scummiest. I notice how cain managed to evade your scumlist...why is that? Others thought his vote was suspicious, why not you?

[saberwolf]

and with that, in conclusion:

unvote; vote: ZazieR

I know others have tried to make me look bad, but you tried the hardest, and I don't like it, especially as I haven't really done anything anti-town. You put words in my mouth, misrepped me, and have not really done any effective scumhunting with that spam of yours.

[saberwolf]

and with that, in conclusion:

unvote; vote: ZazieR

I know others have tried to make me look bad, but you tried the hardest, and I don't like it, especially as I haven't really done anything anti-town. You put words in my mouth, misrepped me, and have not really done any effective scumhunting with that spam of yours.

OMGUS much?

not often, only on weekends and every other thursday

[saberwolf]

You know what, this is giving me a real bad feeling from you now.

So,

Unvote

Vote: saberwolf

is this to make it look like you're not tunneling?

Whatever, I just don't like the way ZazieR's throwing dirt around, and is def trying to twist things into an unpleasant spotlight.

also, please elaborate on why my post gave you a bad feeling, cause I already suspected you having connections to ZazieR before, but this def helps reinforce it.

[saberwolf]

ZazieR has tried to make me look scummy the best he can, and has put words in my mouth and misrepped me, which is what earned my vote.

the,whatever, part hascow, refered to the speculation of toro voting for me to look like he wasn't tunneling.

as for connections, Zazier tries to undo everything I've done. I've tried to stop the fight at the beginning so that tunneling wouldnt occur, and now ZazieR is undoing that by only ripping at the original talkers. Toro was mildly involved in the spam and was not as aggressively attacked. I thought it might have been a slight attempt at bussing. I also thought it could be a future setup to get cain off the hook for his BW vote. The rest that happened afterwards has convinced me enough that there is at least one connection between the three.

[saberwolf]

I just noticed...nik isnt on your scumlist either ZazieR...why?

[saberwolf]

toro, you're now parroting what I've already said with last couple of posts -_-

[saberwolf]

toro, you're now parroting what I've already said with last couple of posts -_-

Well squawkity squawk squawk then.

not gonna lie, this made me laugh really hard

*gives toro a cracker*

[saberwolf]

ZazieR: Def suspicious of why nik didn't make your list. I would of though that if anything he'd be up there at the top, given the basis of why your list was made. [but then again that's just me] So why isn't he on it? Actually after you answer that, please tell me why everyone else who isn't on your list is not on the list.

[saberwolf]

ZazieR: Def suspicious of why nik didn't make your list.

I would of though that if anything he'd be up there at the top, given the basis of why your list was made. [but then again that's just me]

So why isn't he on it? Actually after you answer that, please tell me why everyone else who isn't on your list is not on the list.

Bolded is the part I find peculiar.

ok, will explain:

notice that the three at the top of the list are three of the four that originally were doing all of the talking. [personally to me that makes no sense] So following that pattern, Nik should at least be number four on that list. I actually found nik to be the scummiest out of the three of them, mainly for his aggressive play and trying to force others to join him in his BW attempt. Mind you, by scummiest, I mean rubbed me the wrong way more than the others. I was too busy focusing on ending the squabbling to really consider anything they did as real scumtells.

[saberwolf]

possible toro/zazier/nik as werewolves?

either that, or I'd put zazier/nik as possible mafia

[saberwolf]

Why I think ZazieR twisted my words and such:

Post 18 –

Trying to keep the attention on Mastin.

This could also be a defence for one of them (As he asks both of them to forget about it), more likely to be DT as he got the most heat.
Short stated, trying to keep us away from discussion.

Never made the slightest indication of nudging the votes or attention onto Mastin. After my vote for mastin and small talk with hohum, made NO MORE MENTION of mastin.

Post 52 – Speaking for multiple players. Scummy.

I didn't speak for multiple players. First of all, I made a point of putting in paranthesis that I'd only be talking on my behalf, as I realised I sorta was defending hohum, but I figured it'd be a good assumption to make though, considering hohum and I had the exact same reasons. Hohum is NOT multiple people

Post 54 – Asking all the other players who are so far active for their thoughts, yet not doing it himself. Scummy.

Not true, painting a bad picture of me right here. I DID post an analysis.

Post 67 –

Saberwolf

, why are you already looking for connections when you don’t think any of the three is scummy?

I never said they weren't scummy, but how am I supposed to actively scumhunt if the three of them only tunnel each other and point fingers at each other the entire time? None of them have made my town list, and I have my eye on everyone. Only person I trust is myself. I don't even trust DT, even though he IS buddying up to me.

(All posts from Saberwolf)

[saberwolf]

Mind you, by scummiest, I mean rubbed me the wrong way more than the others.

So for people to be scummy, they have to rub you the wrong way? This is what prompted me to vote for you when you said this about ZazieR.

The two situations are different. In the first situation, we have almost nobody talking at all, and out of the four active people, three were fighting each other in a OMGUS battle. I tried not to take any sides, cause to me it was clear that they were tunneling, and that I'd get almost no useful information out of the fight. There was not enough information and the timelength was too short [considering we were still in the RVS] to be able to claim any of the activity was scummy. In the second situation, I felt that ZazieR had made an inappropriate attack on me, and seemed to be trying hard to discredit me. Looking at it from a scum perspective it would make sense: I was the only one not involved in the fight, so I was the only one who didn't make myself look bad. Also, I had already gained the respect and title of pro-town from one player, so it'd be best to try to take that away from me and make me look as bad as possible to make the odds better in favour of scum.

Hope that helps. Although, no doubt, you'll do your best to rip this to shreds too, or else claim ignorance.

[saberwolf]

Hope that helps. Although, no doubt, you'll do your best to rip this to shreds too,

or else claim ignorance

.

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!

And I haven't been 'ripping' your statement to shreds saber, why so defensive?

the "ripping" part was ZazieR directed, the ignorance part was directed at you.

I have to be defensive. If I wasn't defensive, ZazieR would walk all over me, and I will not let that happen. I'm trying my best to answer every question, but I seem to get more and more discredited every time I do.

[saberwolf]

ok, glad that's cleared up

[saberwolf]

This game is turning into newb central. -_-;

FoS: Everyone who is lurking

Lurking is more of a scumtell in this game. Mafia-tell, specifically. If the mafia can lay low enough to not get lynched or nk'd by the werewolves, they win automatically after three days of continual lynched/nk'd townies. I tell this to the werewolves as well. It's in both the town's and werewolves' best interest for nk's to be directed at mafia.

Aim for the lurkers, and you will be more likely to hit mafia, werewolves.

while this post does make sense, it gives me the slightest feeling of mafia redirecting the gun onto someone else.

FoS Nik

[saberwolf]

Why do you choose the person with the

shortest

attention span to respond to the

longest

post?

Saberwolf

-Post 182: No links of your games with Mastin?

I don't know how to find them. I deleted them from my watched topics. But I did have Mastin replace AnkleLock in a newbie game, and I'm sure I played him a second time somewhere. If you could help me find them, that'd be swell.

-Post 183: Have you done this somewhere before? If so, show me links. I’ll comment later fully on this part when you have given me links if there are ones. But what you are saying is incorrect. Let’s look at the VC.

I was talking about this game, so no links to provide. The votes may not all be there, but the mudslinging is mainly at the four horsemen [i'm giving us a name now ]

Post 133 shows that of the four who started talking, 2 have votes. Of which one has a vote of another starter. Yep, they are really targets .
Also, this gives me the impression you don’t want to get attention.
-184 and 185. You state again that you wanted to wait till everybody has chimed in. So I’d like to know why you haven’t questioned them or anything at all. Some examples include Kill, Cain and ThAd.

I have a very short attention span, and can really only focus on a couple of things at a time. Trying to sort out the chaos allowed me to forget about the others. It is also happening now...it's taking all my effort and time just to reply to you, so I can't focus on anyone else....I'm gonna come back to this point in my conclusion.

-Post 186.

A bit

of sarcasm?

A bit, a piece, synonymous words there

I also want you to respond to my second question regarding Post 40. There was once again discussion, and you asked a question suitable for the RVS.

nothing wrong with commenting on posts, but when it leads to tunneling, I try to discourage it. Tunneling is anti-town.

-Post 187. Regarding Post 52: By saying that there were real reasons, you are trying to state that the Mastin wagon is a good wagon, defending those who are on it. Add that as you already said, Hohum had the same reasons. Defending yourself and another player (Two players) is still defending multiple players.

touche, I'll concede to that point I suppose, although as long as its clear, I only partially defended hohum other than myself

Also, by stating this, you give Cain a possible reason behind his vote. Making it technically three players you are defending.

nope, don't like cain, never vouched for him

Regarding Post 54: Yes, you did post your own list later on. After you were asked to do so.

I was already in the process of typing it before I was even asked. It took me a while to type it, so it showed up much later.

This is fake scumhunting. You’re trying to appear active by posting a question to let other scum hunt, while you aren’t doing it yourself. This also gives you at the same time the thoughts from the other players.

Why would it be any different had I posted first or in the middle?

Regarding Post 67: What do we have in this post. Saber’s list with his thoughts of the active players. What did he state:
-Nik seems legit, but a tad bit pushy (In other words, not scummy)
-DT has made some pro-town looking posts, though he had done some scummy things. You want to hear more (In other words, neutral)
-Hohum is your favorite of the three (In other words, not scummy)
At the end of this post, he does look at connections between them, while not being suspicious of any of them. You’re saying you haven’t done this,

Saber

. Show that.

The only thing I did was make possible seperations between them. I never made any scum connections between any of them.

-Post 188. First of all, that was only to page 5. I’m pretty sure that Cow, Cain and Nik had posted as well back then. Cain you realised later. Nice case of overreacting.

Wasnt overreacting, everyone else concured to my thoughts on the issue

Also, the part about Cain is scummy. You state that ‘others’ thought his vote was scummy. Meaning that you didn’t.

because I hadn't publicly posted about it, otherwise you'd attack me about why I hadn't posted earlier about it then etc. I'm catching on to your head games, ZazieR, don't try to BS me.

Yet, you’re basing an attack against me for it. Why is that?

Cause you're a heavy mudslinger, who is also just like mastin in posting except you cut it up in chunks to make it look nicer, and because I think you're scum. Right now I put you at werewolf.

Also, as answer, I asked him a question about it. If he’s scummy shouldn’t be based upon the vote, but the reason behind it. Now that I have it, his vote is scummy.

No shit it's scummy to you, you're the one I targeted.

-Post 189. Responded to your responses. I’ve seen no misrep or the other things you’re accusing me off from my side. If you see so, show me.

Already did, please reread through the last couple of pages

Also, you are scummy. Your reason for your vote seems to be that I think you are scummy.

Nope, it was mainly for the mudslinging and the fact that as I was apparantly the most town until you showed up and tried to rip my credibility apart.

I’m also curious to hear from you why you think my ‘spam’ has done no scumhunting. With that said, do you think I’m the only one who hasn’t done any scumhunting? If not, why did you only call me out when you think it’s scummy?

I will get to this in my conclusion

(And it’s quite ironic to complain about my ‘spam’ and for you to respond to each of my posts with one post at a time)

Actually I was mocking you, and also my attention span doesn't always allow for such continous thought

[saberwolf]

CONCLUSION

ZazieR has been extremely distracting with his posts. Not only is it tedious to read and sort through, but the attacks made on most of the players [some more harshly than others] is causing everyone to have to spend their time replying to all of the questions and comments from ZazieR and defending themselves. What this has done is effectively prevent the rest of us from effectively scumhunting, and ZazieR has done no real scumhunting, because it's mainly all questions and no real accusations towards anyone, with a slight exception on my part...it is very clear we don't like each other right now. ZazieR stop posting these giant pieces of crap, focus on one or two people, and allow the rest of us to do the same. Because I have to keep defending myself and responding to multiple posts, I have not had the time to focus on those lurking by [cain just to name one]. If you are going to keep hounding me ZazieR, please a little less posting or condense it more. Less questions, more statements, more followthrough. Thanks.

[saberwolf]

hey saber, while I appreciate you responding to zazier, could you please not answer inside the quote?

I have loads of trouble figuring out what someone's saying if they do that.

sorry buddy, but I don't really know how else to do it. Dissecting a large chunk of post like that is pretty hard. I did bold my stuff though, so it's easy to tell who wrote what IMO

[saberwolf]

*Facepalm*.
Zazie is doing a good job of scumhunting. Asking questions IS scumhunting, so long as the questions are followed up on, etc. which I believe Zazie has done. You are calling his scumhunting crap because it is directed at you. This post of yours is so scummy it's ridiculous.

Unvote. Vote: saberwolf.

Also, I'm curious about why you think Zazie is werewolf and not mafia. Any specific reason for thinking that?

while this post does make sense, it gives me the slightest feeling of mafia redirecting the gun onto someone else.

I like how you simultaneously agree with my post and say I'm scummy for it.

theres a difference between asking questions to get answers, and then overloading the game with questions so that we're too busy answering questions to ask any of our own.

[saberwolf]

I'm clearly losing this battle.

Guys, when I flip townie, it is my wish that you go after ZazieR. If flips anti-town, nik next.

This is fucking stupid.

Btw, hope you guys realise that because I'm losing the battle, it makes me more likely to be town. Mafia at least know who they are, same with werewolves, therefore they can gang up on an issue and make the other guy look bad. If a non mafia starts a case on me, the mafia arent gonna step in, and same if it were werewolves. All I can hope for are town support, which isn't gonna happen much.

[saberwolf]

ok guys, I'm back. I had to take a couple hours off to cool down.

First of all, I would like to apologize to ZazieR. I normally get lynched day 1, and every time have turned up townie. For once I was happy, because initially in this game I had appeared as a good townie, and figured for once I'd make it to day 2. Then you came along and started ruining it for me. I will admit I started to OMGUS you and tunnel as well. I was probably too defensive, which lead to my own destruction. I still claim townie, and I almost was at the point where I was so pissed I was just gonna claim werewolf with two other random names and autowin it for the werewolves. Anyways, looking over it all, I think that in this case, I did not represent the towns as well as I should of, and for that, I probably don't deserve to be here.

unvote

I will now do an analysis of the whole game the best I can. Next post will be within an hour I hope.

[saberwolf]

EBWOP: oops, thought werewolves were 3 ppl and mafia are 2. would of claimed mafia and won it for mafia for above post ^^. In that case anywhere where I have mentioned werewolves or mafia, i mean the other one instead.

[saberwolf]

Player Analysis PBP

I just noticed this function

Cain

Has only done three posts the whole game. The first post was BWing on mastin/cow with hohum and myself. The second post was him chipping in saying he was basically useless at helping us scumhunt. The third was him giving a very lousy reply to the question: "Why did you want a BW?" His response: "I didnt ask for a bandwagon, i was joining it. i had no reasons."

overall, is an active lurker with virtually no input. Hard to say if his vote actually means anything. Because his vote has not moved around at all, even though others in the game have thrown around points as to why others should be voted for, he has not budged his vote, which makes me assume it's scum placing his vote out of harms way and doing best to seem invisible. Whether or not his vote is a bussing vote is hard to say, but I'm leaning towards not [more gut than anything].

DTMaster

The biggest issue for most of the beginning of the game, post 2:

Mastin still hasn't confirmed (as of this post). What are the chances that he is reading the game so far. (And L-3, while I don't think is scummy for the RVS, is odd to look at on

just page 1

)

Now some of you thought this was scummy, some of you didn't. I for one, did not find this scummy. Let's break it down:

Mastin still hasn't confirmed (as of this post).

FACT

What are the chances that he is reading the game so far.

Seems like a rhetorical question, due to lack of question mark. Chances are, he probably isn't reading. Either that, or he's waiting until he had enough substance to make one of his annoying wall posts. [later replacement of him confirms it was the former]

(And L-3, while I don't think is scummy for the RVS, is odd to look at on

just page 1

)

I see his point, the fact that a player has a BW before even posting once is weird, BUT still doesn't mean anything. Probably the only part of his post I have a problem with, but overall don't find the post scummy.

DTMaster starts to bitch about being confronted over his post, then denies bitching about it. When hohum keeps pressing the issue, DTMaster decides to go from FoSing to voting for him in an OMGUS manner. Nik joins in the fray, and soon it's DTMaster against Nik and hohum. For the next few posts, DTMaster defends himself, but in a somewhat redundant manner, using the same points over and over again. Eventually he starts to agree with me about waiting for others to show up before a tunnel war starts, but also wants to keep the confrontation fresh enough to whip back to the forefront in case it works out to his advantage. Later he admits to OMGUSing, and then goes back to defending himself with the same material, nothing new. It is hard for me to derive anything out of it so far, but if I were to make a guess, I'd say DTMaster's defence is townie, because it has remained consistant, and has refused to alter so far. In his summary post, states that all lurkers are neutral to him, and despite the big conflict with nik and hohum, decides to regard them both as neutral as well. Finally, he decides that I'm townie, showing first signs of buddying. For a little bit, he decides to take it upon himself to defend me, and calling me pro-town repeatedly. [I personally like this, but it could be a buddy-up attempt, ya never know] He then starts to really lay his life on the line for me, defending me every turn he can. I admire the loyalty. If this was simply town/mafia setup, I'd be more suspicious, but because there is the possibility of him supporting another anti-town faction and looking bad if I flipped as one, I'd say that he is simply placing his faith in me, and would put him as town, but not fully dismissing him as scum. Of course, there is the argument that he's the same alignment as me as scum, but when I flip townie, you will see it is not the case. I feel that DTMaster did a good job of responding to ZazieR's questions, and did not seem overdefensive either. [wish I was as capable >.>] By now it's safe to say that DTMaster and I have hugely buddied up, and I am hoping he is town. I read him as town, and is doing a good job so far.

hasdgfas

Replaces Mastin [thank god] and does a catch up analysis. His initial thoughts are that he doesn't like DTMaster, Hohum, and myself. He also briefly mentions kill kill and toro but seems to ignore them after that. Seems to like nik however...not sure why. I personally don't like nik, but that could be me tunneling again...one view's don't necessarily reflect all. For the next while Cow attacks DTMaster, claiming that earlier spats between nik and DTMaster, that Nik was right and had done his part in the spat. Did he now? Guess I'll have to see for myself when I get to Nik's part...
The rest of his posts mainly involve addressing me for my OMGUSness against ZazieR, and then attacking toro for defending ZazieR. Legit point by Cow, because I was tunneling myself
Only problem I have with you is you agreed that yes, I did do something pro-town by trying to prevent a calamity from happening early on so that scum couldnt fan the flames, but immediately after decredit me and say I was not doing town any favours.

Hohum

Starts off by voting mastin [like him already ], but then gets annoyed when DTMaster supposedly steps in and tries to take away from the BW. [I'm going to make an assumption right here and say that Hohum and Mastin/Cow are not in the same faction] The Tunnel war then begins, and first Hohum starts off attacking DTMaster, but than switches gears and attacks Nik when Nik becomes too aggressive towards Hohum. Something I didn't realise until just now, but right after the tunnel war was over,

Hohum stopped posting altogether

, almost as if he doesn't want anymore unwelcome attention....Also, I don't like how he never did an analysis post like I asked.

Kill-Kill

Has very little to bring to the game. Has Voted in RVS, rehashes a scene that already has been rehashed and raged over and discussed many times, and then starts attacking three of the four horsemen. Seems so sure that one of them is scum, yet apparently does not want to move his vote off of cain.

Lumi

Hasn't been around too long, it's true, but has not offered anything to the table in terms of scum hunting. She has been more of the cheerleader by the sidelines than anything. The one good thing running for her is she is one of the few who didn't jump on the horsemen, with the exception of me. Also doesn't like toro or cain either. At this point, I'd like to ask a question:

As scum, what do I gain from stopping a conversation between three other people? [anyone can answer this]

Scott Brosius

I actually have a good town read after viewing his posts.
All his posts are mainly reflecting on past issues and giving his viewpoint on them, but he seems to pick and choose his sides to issues rather well, and briefly describes why for all of them too. Only problem I can address is that he is kind of defending multiple players himself.

ZazieR, care to ISO him and tell me your views?

So far seems to be suspicious of me, but agrees with some of my views. Doesn't like Cain, and is suspicious of Lumi.

ThAdmiral

Posted virtually NOTHING. Nothing to comment on

Toro

Spends the first few posts tunneling Cain. Say's he doesn't like Cain's vote and how there is no basis behind it. Later on toro buddies up with ZazieR, denying Saberwolf's and DTMaster's claims that ZazieR is mudslinging and twisting posts. Then there was a slight confrontation between Saberwolf and Toro, but everything worked out. Seems to like Zazier, dislikes Cain and Saberwolf.

Nikanor

Nikanor starts off to me as aggressive. Starts challenging others even though we are barely started in the RVS. Makes a good call on DTMaster about bitching and OMGUS though. Starts to backtrack and play on words when Hohum retaliates to Nikanor's aggressive play when Hohum becomes the target. Reading through the beginning, I have determined that Nikanor

DID NOT explain anywhere why the post by DTMaster was defending.

All he simply did was keep stating either: "It's Defending, simple as that", or "If you can't see why it's defending, then I can't help you".

@hohum: So you're saying your random pressure vote on Mastin was more valuable than a vote with some (if little) basis on DT? That's the interpretation I'm pulling from your one answer that is anything close to acceptable.
hohum, some advice: Answer questions well, and your answers won't be questioned. You wonder why people keep asking you the same question? They're not stupid, you just haven't clearly laid out your answer to a degree they find acceptable. Instead of resorting to insult, perhaps you could clarify your original answer next time? It would save everyone quite a bit of trouble in the long run.

oh the irony. You should follow your own advice, especially with DTMaster.

Nikanor makes a good post about Kill-kill posting for the sake of posting. The post about mafia laying low was good, but i still feel it was a mafia redirection post by him.

There's more I can say, but to be honest I think it's wild theory by myself, so I'm done with him for now. Seems to dislike Saberwolf, DTMaster, Hohum. Likes ZazieR.

ZazieR

oh god...I hope I can finish this, or else make it blissfully short...

Question: why didn't you ask Hohum the same question you asked me, asking to provide links to games with Mastin and such?

I still feel like you were mudslinging. Just about everyone got a face full of it.

wow, so it turns out I got nothing to write here, other than that you post a lot of questions, and give me quite a headache. seem to not like Saberwolf, DTMaster, and Hohum, out of the whole lot. HoHum could be to throw us off, I feel more comfortable saying you just don't like Saberwolf and DTMaster.

The list

As of now, the following look scummy:
-Hohum
-DT
-Saber
-Kill
-Toro
-ThAd
-Scott

The above 3 are more scummier than the latter 4.
Cain, Lumi, Nikanor, Cow and ZazieR did not make the list.

Zazier can be ignored for obvious reasons.

ZazieR: Please tell me why the other three did not make your list?
I'm most interested in why ThAd makes the list, but Cain does not.
Is the list random, or in order of scumminess?

Vote patterns

ZazieR: votes for Saberwolf
Toro: Votes Cain, then Saberwolf
Scott Brosius: Votes Cain
Nikanor: Votes Cow, then DTMaster, then Toro, then Saberwolf
Lumi: Votes Saberwolf
Kill-Kill: Votes Cain
Hohum: Votes Cow, then Nikanor
Cow: Votes DTMaster, then Saberwolf
DTMaster: Votes Kill-kill, then Hohum, then Kill-kill again
Cain: Votes Cow
Saberwolf: Votes Cow, then ZazieR

Conclusions, Seperations

Note: When I say Faction, I mean Faction as if one of them is anti-town. It is possible for them to both be scum and not on the same faction, but I doubt that they are of the same scum type. It is also possible for them to both be town.

DTMaster and Nikanor are definitely not on the same faction.
DTMaster and Cow are definitely not on the same faction.
Hohum and Cow are most likely not in the same faction.
Hohum and Nikanor are most likely not in the same faction.
Saberwolf and ZazieR are definitely not on the same faction.
DTMaster and ZazieR are definitely not on the same faction.
Nikanor and Saberwolf are most likely not in the same faction.

Scott doesnt like Cain or Lumi
Kill-kill doesnt like Cain
DTMaster likes Saberwolf
Saberwolf likes DTMaster
Toro likes ZazieR
Cow likes ZazieR
Nikanor likes ZazieR

And that concludes it I hope.

Fixed tags to make it easier to read

-Fuzzy

[saberwolf]

EBWOP:

It should also be noted that I think it is unlikely that DTMaster and Kill-kill are in the same faction.

I also don't like Nikanor's vote hopping. Seems to be just trying to find a BW that sticks.

I will stick with a

vote: Nikanor

and conclude there

[saberwolf]

So, I appreciate you cooling down a bit here saber. I'm not sure whether or not it makes me feel better about you though, I have to do some thinking about that. Anyway, a couple questions for you:

Nikanor and Saberwolf are most likely not in the same faction.

I thought you were saying you're town. In that case, shouldn't there be no chance of you two being in the same anti-town faction?

Could you also go a little more in-depth about each of your "X likes/dislikes Y"? I'm not sure I understand why each of them are there.

I also would love some citations in your last sentence about me, as in where I said you did a good thing, and where I discredited it.

Ok, I'll start with question one. I originally decided to leave myself out of the analysis, but I figured that for your sake, I might as well pretend that I'm one of you guys viewing my analysis and that my alignment is not for certain.

As for question two, I am pretty sure I posted reasons for most, if not all of them in my PbPA. Most of them tend to just be players who buddy up with other players or defend them for likes, and for those under dislikes its usually those who are either voting for each other, attacking each other in the posts, or something else along those lines. For example, DTMaster likes Saberwolf to me, because he has been defending me loyally this whole time and been calling me pro-town. Nikanor doesn't like DTMaster because of bitchiness and OMGUSness in Nikanors opinion, plus suppossed attempt of Mastin/Cow BW derailment. Hope the rest are explained above or are easy enough to determine. If not, just ask me again and I'll go through them all.

As for part three: If you were to isolate your posts, its post number 10. I'm not gonna bother looking for it in the game:

@Has

If I had done it then it would warrant a case on me, if I didn't then it doesn't mean anything. >>;; A bit premature to jump on me for this now.

I hate people being wishy-washy, because it makes it so easy for them to jump on either side. That's what I'm saying, not that you might change your mind at one point. Plus, it's not a huge point right now. I was just stating something that I saw.

Plus, saber might've tried to stop the "tunneling"(which I don't think it was at all, tbh. It was jumping on stuff that needed to be jumped on. There's no tunneling when others haven't posted),

but he didn't comment on the things that needed to be commented on. It looked to me like he was trying to stifle discussion, which is scummy.

This is the pro-saber part. Admitting that I was still doing something pro-town. Whether you wanna call it tunnel-stopping, or jumping on things that need to be jumped on, it's still saying I did the right thing

This part is where you decredit me.

[saberwolf]

COW: [to avoid wall posts]

Anyone who I said likes ZazieR are the ones who have agreed with just about everything he has said, and/or oppose the same people.

As for my misunderstanding....well damn
I considered it tunneling because they didnt want to wait for others to show up to start accusing. They were perfectly content to accuse anyone who was in that room...which unfortunately was only the three of them.

[saberwolf]

DTMaster: do you mean the role PMs from previous games? Nope, delete them as well as any other trace of the game when it's over with.

[saberwolf]

I <3 Toro

*gives toro a hug and a cookie*

I'm actually at a loss on where to go from here

[saberwolf]

4. Kill-Kill: You are keeping your vote on Cain but you mentioned that his meta involved some odd mistakes (ie town claiming scum, etc). Why did you keep your vote if you knew Cain's town meta was poor and you outlined he was looked like he was acting noobish in your ISO 3?

First of all, being noobish as a townie in no way helps the town. However, the main reason is his willingness to jump on the Mastin bandwagon. If he had been trying to use the bandwagon to scum hunt, he would have followed up with questions, suspicions, something. I think his inexperience led him to believe that he could lynch someone who wasn't in his faction early, when an experienced player would know that the wagon would never get a lynch without evidence.

For the most part this is all true, but you gotta remember a BW has to start

somehow

. It isn't about the validity of the BW for the first two or three votes...it's about backing it up when the final vote or two is put on it for the lynch.

[saberwolf]

responding to prod.

having troubles getting internet time. will post come monday.

[saberwolf]

hi guys, yes I'm alive. I simply don't have the time I wish I had to post in all my games.

Let me explain: I'm a university student getting ready to head back. I said V/LA until monday because I knew I wouldn't have internet access [or much of it] for the weekend while i packed and shipped my stuff to my dads, where I'm chilling for a week before heading to uni. I figured that when I got to my dads on monday I'd have regular internet again. Turns out I was wrong. I had to beg him to give me an hour just to catch up on some of my more important games. My dad leaves for work in 2 hours, so by then my internet time will very much improve, and i will catch up. Once again, sorry for the absence, I did not deliberately intend to hide.

[saberwolf]

Doing some more thinking on this...I'm not so sure about Saber being scum now as I was before. Seeing the vote count I can't see Saber not wagon voting for me (Cain) if he isn't anti-town. Could be a ploy but I'm gonna re-think my vote for a bit.

unvote

I don't like this. Even with an unvote on me, to me it comes across as "I will spare you, in an attempt to scare you away from voting on me, otherwise I'll come back and vote for you".

unvote; vote: peacesells

[saberwolf]

as for toro, I am still suspicious of nik. He promised to make this big post, complained about catching up, does small comments for a bit...and then goes on about me OMGUS ZazieR...but still no large post.

Hohum is making me wonder too....no responses at all...is he posting in other games anyone?

FoS: nikanor, hohum

[saberwolf]

Hey, sorry I haven't posted recently, my other games picked up.
I'll catch up tomorrow or the next day.

Don't worry folks, I'm still here, I just died for a couple days.
Anyway, I'm reading up tonight. I'll post my thoughts tomorrow night.

Okaaaay, reading from page 12.
...
This is going to take a while.

Agh!
Lost my post.
Expect me to post again soon, as I am unofficially caught up (the paperwork hasn't gone through yet to make it official).

gives me the notion you got this medium to big catch up post coming. I haven't seen anything catch up worthy.

[saberwolf]

fair enough, but care to post your thoughts?

[saberwolf]

nik, can i have your opinion of peacesells?

[saberwolf]

lol

[saberwolf]

toro: is it my thoughts of what it meant that is suspicious, or that you think that the way i put it makes peacesells suspicious?

[saberwolf]

\o/

what the hell is this?

[saberwolf]

unvote; vote: hohum

the hell with this, if he isn't scum, he's a liability.

[saberwolf]

Nik, peace, I'll offer my opinion on this after you two do, but do either of you want to respond to Saber's 444?

quit asking others to do stuff for you then follow on the coattails. If you have a problem with 444, address it yourself,then let others follow suit.

[saberwolf]

that pretty much sums it up.

1. He has done NOTHING to assist town. No scumhunting done at all
2. He is obviously around,and if was really unable to play, would at least post a V/LA bit.
3. If we keep him around, it's gonna fuck us over in the future, cause he's such an unclear we won't know what to do with him

I think we need to get rid of him unless he steps it up.

[saberwolf]

what do you plan to achieve by delaying it? are you hoping that peace or myself gets lynched before we can get around to it?

FoS: Toro

[saberwolf]

I say we put pressure on him then. At least make the lynch a possibility. He isn't going to post so long as he is in no immediate danger.

[saberwolf]

good news ppl, I'm now at university! which means I'll be able to play and post more

just later though...right now I'm partying with friends, be back soon enough.

[saberwolf]

would like to say for the record i was the one who initially thought ZazieR's wall splices were scummy.

[saberwolf]

would like to say for the record i was the one who initially thought ZazieR's wall splices were scummy.

This reeks of "look guys I was first and may have done something that is pro-town!"

close, I just felt that when I attacked ZazieR for it, everyone was against me. Now that the attack on ZazieR is kosher all of a sudden, I'd just like to remind people who thought of it first, just to see if the attack suddenly stops or actually sticks.

[saberwolf]

I kind of agree with scott.

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

[saberwolf]

have to say i agree with nikanor with this. It is a benefit for town if any false claims happen.

but what IF hohum IS seer? That would suck.

Is this working well in hohum's favour though?...all he's gotta do is read the threads and act accordingly now that we prematurly set the stage up with this whole discussion. However it is almost a guarantee now that he won't live past night 1.

So what now? what works in our best interests as town? Guess we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves...I'll wait for hohum's claim.

[saberwolf]

Is this working well in hohum's favour though?...all he's gotta do is read the threads and act accordingly now that we prematurly set the stage up with this whole discussion. However it is almost a guarantee now that he won't live past night 1.

Way to try to discredit a potential seer claim by hohum.
And it's almost guaranteed he won't live through night one IF he claims seer.

I'm not discrediting anything. I actually feel bad for hohum, as he's stuck betwen a rock and a hard place. If Hohum does claim seer, I will gladly get off and put my vote on somebody else...particularly DTMaster for tactfully setting up this whole conversation.

[saberwolf]

I kind of agree with scott.

It's useless for the player claiming because, whether or not he's actually telling the truth, he'll get NKed anyways, as there is no doc or equivilent to prevent it. The only good part to the claim would be town would back off and increase their chances of a day 1 anti-town lynch

This is giving me a really bad vibe from both you and Scott now, sounds as if you two are werewolves and you'd want to make sure that Hohum (if he's the seer) doesn't speak to try and clear himself.

Unvote

Vote: Saberwolf

I personally would love for him to claim seer. It would make our job as town easier. BUT I'm hoping he really isn't seer. It would be in our best interests as town for a fake claim and create WIFOM for scum to debate on...

I just really hope hohum isn't seer, or we're screwed.

[saberwolf]

Why DTM? You say he started the conversation, but you and I are propagating it. If this conversation is so bad, why aren't you trying to stop it? You know what they say, 'if you're not part of the solution...'

it wasn't until the conversation developed [when I saw nik and scott talking] that I started giving my own input, but I fully realise what could go down.

Think about it...why NOW does DTMaster ask someone to claim at L-2?

1. He is in the same faction, an is desperately attempting to get his buddy out of a hard place. It would work for them both if they are both werewolves. Hohum claims seer, and they get away with it until seer actually gets lynched. Only problem with this:

a) seer gets lynched early, Hohum is taken out next [obviously] and we suspect DTMaster for his connections. We might not even have to lynch him, if they are werewolves, but I could be wrong about the connection as well, this is simply my viewpoint.

b) Seer stays alive for quite some time, gets the dirt on a couple of scum, and then claims and reveals what he/she's got. Hohum then gets lynched, and we are in a super good position.

So this would be a super gamble, hoping seer gets lynched midgame. They would have to be able to control the outcome, hence making them mafia, and not werewolves.

Or there is:

2. DTMaster is an anti-town faction, knows that hohum is not on his faction, and figures any non-alignment lynch is a good lynch. He has after all almost certainly fixed Hohum's death, whether it's by lynch or NK. Only problem with this theory is...why not do this for Cain or myself?


so that's my thoughts for now...gotta think about this and analyze it further...for now, I'll be back later...I'm going out with my buddy to pick up dinner. [im using his laptop at his place.]

[saberwolf]

DTMaster: I said if it was the real seer it would suck, but it would be in a VT's best interests as well as towns for a fake claim. Werewolves most likely wouldn't claim seer or they'd get NKed, but would claim VT, and mafia are free to claim seer. Therefore if Hohum claims, depending on what he claims, it for the most part based on odds is best for town. He could simply claim VT, but I don't think that would make us change our vote.

[saberwolf]

ThAdmiral: I'm glad you did. I had forgotten that myself.

[saberwolf]

peace: thats not a legit vote.

[saberwolf]

peace: thats not a legit vote.

Eager?

vote Hohum

How do you get eager out of that? I simply stated what was true. You stated that you put Hohum at L-1, and I simply told you you were incorrect.

[saberwolf]

simply eh?

Just hope that Hohum turns up scum..otherwise..........

Otherwise what? Are you threatening me, or attempting to set up future mislynches? Either way, it's not very town of you.

[saberwolf]

DTMaster: I said if it was the real seer it would suck, but it would be in a VT's best interests as well as towns for a fake claim. Werewolves most likely wouldn't claim seer or they'd get NKed, but would claim VT, and mafia are free to claim seer. Therefore if Hohum claims, depending on what he claims, it for the most part based on odds is best for town. He could simply claim VT, but I don't think that would make us change our vote.

This is incorrect. Werewolves have nothing to fear in claiming seer because they are the ones doing the NKing. Mafia would never fake-claim seer because they're avoiding the werewolves like the plague and don't want to get involved in any seer-werewolf duel.

yes you are right...ugh, i keep mixing the two up. switch mafia and werewolves in my quote, and thats what i meant.

[saberwolf]

simply eh?

Just hope that Hohum turns up scum..otherwise..........

Are you threatening me, or attempting to set up future mislynches? Either way, it's not very town of you.

Are you attempting to set up an argument against a future point I may make against you if Hohum comes up innocent? Is this town of you?

Nope, but I don't like the way you took an innocent remark and tried to turn it into some kind of scum tell. Truth is, your vote WAS wrong. PLUS, if you thought I was wrong, you wouldn't have posted a new vote afterwards. I also don't like how you started to threaten me. Granted, the sentence was left unending, but it is very easy to interpret as a threat. Why should I be the one worried if he doesn't flip scum. Why not anybody else? You are starting to throw some OMGUS posts around as well [ @ hascow, and sort of at me], although I'm sure that when others come to read this, they will support me as well.

also, arguing a question with another question is very untownlike.

[saberwolf]

I wasn't eager at all. I refreshed the page, saw you posted, checked it out, saw you made a mistake, and informed you, what's so wrong about that?

[saberwolf]

How come you ain't pouncing on toro peace? He's semi-defending me as well.

[saberwolf]

also, arguing a question with another question is very untownlike.

Do you really think I was arguing a question with another question or perhaps pointing out how you were just setting me up with your question. You were making a pre-emptive strike and I counter with your same methodolgy.

Here's a hint...my question wasn't really a question it was a statement about your game play.

Oh the irony. Who was doing the setup when they set up a sentence to imply that if hohum flipped town, I would be next.

[saberwolf]

kill kill: I saw that too, which is why I pointed it out

[saberwolf]

nik: something more than one liners please?

[saberwolf]

@Kill
To add.

I was the one who first voted with provided meta evidence.

Sabre and Has are both guilty on jumping on the Hohum wagon when they could not provide meta evidence to support Has' claim. How did I conviently jump on Hohum's bandwagon when I provided the means for the entire town to go and meta call Hohum?

Grasping for straws again.

i have no problem with your vote on hohum, but I think my vote is justified. Mine wasn't about evidence [there were no posts to use as evidence], I don't use meta as a strategy tool, as I myself do my best to avoid any game patterns. I went on the BW because I was annoyed with how he could do absolutely nothing in this game and just fly under the radar. I also believed carrying him into the next day(s) would result in him being a liability.

I am noting the manner of which his BW is being broken up btw...the chances of all of you being town here who just unvoted is highly unlikely.

If this wagon is going to be derailed, I want to see good reason to shift my vote, but we need to do something soon..I will not allow scum to force us into a no lynch, when that is not in town's best interests. To be real honest though, I'm finding that the whole lot of us are getting mighty paranoid...the slightest defence of somebody or the smallest comment gets us all worked up and making assumptions about each other. Granted, a few of these assumptions could be right, but I find that we aren't fully scumhunting as we are just pointing fingers at whoever talks back at us.

As much as I can't believe I'm saying this, I'd like to see ZazieR pop up right about now with some more posts of his.

[saberwolf]

DTM: there was 2 minutes between cow and myself. I tend to leave my screen up in reply mode. I waited at first for a reply from hohum, and then realised i wasnt getting it, so i originally wrote a rant, thought better of it, deleted most of it, and then voted. I could of easily been the first one and then cow, but the order is not really relevent. However, I can see why you have the flag, and I acknowledge it. However, I don't see why I should change my vote as of right now. If we do keep hohum around, I demand either a replacement or a 150% better effort, or else I will do my hardest to make sure he goes day 2.

[saberwolf]

hohum has been on for the past hour or so...I've seen him browsing the forums. I can't prove it, but at least I know he is still not making an effort.

[saberwolf]

lol DTMaster, that's a lot of accusations...I'll check and see what questions I missed.

[saberwolf]

unvote; vote: hohum

the hell with this, if he isn't scum, he's a liability.

Why no vote earlier?
Also,

Zaz

, reminder to look back.

because I was waiting for more input from hohum, but when I realised that the \O/ was the best we were gonna get, I got fed up and voted for him.

[saberwolf]

apparantly thats all i missed, even though i did answer this to someone else.

[saberwolf]

@ dtm

i didnt realise i hadnt, lol, and in fact in a way...I kinda did, just not to ZazieR, so really, just 5

[saberwolf]

haha...


you want to see defensive? I'll show you defensive.....


YOU ARE WRONG AND I WILL LAUGH IN ALL YOUR FACES WHEN YOU ALL LYNCH ME AND I FLIP TOWN. I AM A TOWNIE AND THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY. I AM NOT MAFIA, I AM NOT A WEREWOLF, I AM A TOWNIE. YOU GOT NOTHING ON ME...


and with that:

unvote; vote: saberwolf

Let's see what little information this actually gives you. I OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCE THIS AS AN ANTI-TOWN MOVE, AS YOU WILL GET VIRTUALLY NO INFO FROM THIS LYNCH. i SUPPORT MY OWN LYNCH, SO LONG AS SOMEBODY IS LYNCHED BEFORE DAY 1, AND AS IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HOHUM, I WILL NOW TAKE THE STAND.

good luck town.

Edited for excessive profanity, please tone it down

-Fuzzy

[saberwolf]

thats the whole point. please read my one post again, especially the caps.

[saberwolf]

The funny part is, once again, I never make it past day one...and once again, I flip townie...

[saberwolf]

oh I'm definitely town, and the funny part is, I know that you know in your gut it's true.

just put a couple more votes on me, and we'll see what turns up.

oh, and don't worry, I'm not the seer either, I'm not that big of a douche

[saberwolf]

@Sabre

You just lied. You made it past day 1 in another game with me. Meta link is in my Wiki. Fail AtE right now.

doesnt count. i was a replacement

any game where im town and not a replacement i havent made it past day 1

[saberwolf]

The funny part is, once again, I never make it past day one...and once again, I flip townie...

So why explode? You were nowhere near lynch. I can understand that being voted D1 as town sucks, but that's not an argument. The game is not won or loss on your survival. Either you are scum (more likely), or a really selfish townie who is not playing for a team victory. You had many interactions with people, which will be telling regardless of what you flip. Blowing up like this is stupid.

haha greatest part is, i didnt really blow up LMAO

i had the biggest grin on my face when i posted previous. He wanted overreacting defense? ok, I'll give it to him...my fun at the expense of playing out the rest of the game...its all good.

[saberwolf]

oh, and yeah, im def a selfish townie. not a single game have i ever been pro-town

[saberwolf]

LYNCH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[saberwolf]

I dont have a meta


don't discuss, just lynch

also, dtm, the way you posted last made it sound like you arent town.

[saberwolf]

LYYYYYNCHHHHHHHH MEEEEEEEE


can you tell I am actually enjoying myself?

[saberwolf]

@Sabre

.... I would say more

but I'll let the town

make the meta judgment on this..

@Nik
I was a heavy defender of Sabre early game, why am I particularly scummy if Sabre flips town. Shouldn't it be the other way around or are you discounting my earlier posts.

bolded part is where I'm concerned

and yes, due to you defending me, it doesnt place you as top suspect when I flip town...but it doesn't clear you either.

[saberwolf]

unvote

cause I want to be the hammer

[saberwolf]

I like toast

I shall die soon

[saberwolf]

dying thoughts: I have gotten more info out of this than the entire rest of the time playing. I shall give input just before i die...or at least just before i go to bed.

screw it, i'm just gonna say nik is obvscum.

he's taking the all concerned of my innocence approach, the only one mind you, and I'm reading through it as the bullshit it is.

I dont think DTMaster is scum.

Scott is leaning scum to me, but its harder to say.

[saberwolf]

Alright, that's the pot stirred, now let's play.


This was a gambit on my part, and most likely will get lynched, but I think we have seen some interesting views from people as of late.

I am very much eager to keep playing, so my vote will now go to use.

vote: nikanor

cause I don't buy your concerned for townie ploy. I call BS.

[saberwolf]

cause I don't buy your concerned for townie ploy. I call BS.

Where is this 'concerned for townie ploy' about which you keep speaking?

the whole time you bring up AtE as your main attack against me. Planning on scenarios, and trying to cover your ass with options upon my lynch.

[saberwolf]

no, just using various tools to see who reacts to what. I bet if any of you used what just transpired, you'll see a lot of content to work with.

[saberwolf]

that's the L-1 vote BTW>

wrong. I am at L-2

Mod, ZazieR unvoted, so I have one less vote.

[saberwolf]

dying thoughts: I have gotten more info out of this than the entire rest of the time playing. I shall give input just before i die...or at least just before i go to bed.

screw it, i'm just gonna say nik is obvscum.

he's taking the all concerned of my innocence approach, the only one mind you, and I'm reading through it as the bullshit it is.

I dont think DTMaster is scum.

Scott is leaning scum to me, but its harder to say.

First of all, Saber's trolling posts. Scummy.
And in this post, I don't like how he calls Nik obvscum, but doesn't vote him.

i did vote for him. my current vote is nik,

[saberwolf]

you better find a sixth as well.

[saberwolf]

ok, well realistically, i can't get nik lynched day 1. That will have to be a day 2 or 3 job.

unvote; vote: hohum

I'll be watching you...even if I'm dead....my ghost will haunt you

[saberwolf]

i think the deadline is up?

[saberwolf]

*decides to use his bah post to mention that his ghose should not have the right to still vote. Also, he took a gambit and failed, but knows others are gambiting too*

Fixed

- Fuzzy

[saberwolf]

Dead people are dead

[saberwolf]

Hurray!

Finally I don't have to just watch and not talk and wish I wasn't lynched so early...

It's ok though, I finally learned how to not get lynched day 1

GG, and yay for town win.

[saberwolf]

I pegged Toro and Nik, totally wrong about ZazieR, but that was due to tunneling, and I had ThAd by the last day, but otherwise never suspected him.

[saberwolf]

I'm going to PM cow with a wall of text so long it'd make mastin jealous