Mafia 101 - Mafia Dodgeball: GAME OVER

[RayFrost]

/confirm

[RayFrost]

I'm in a game with...

dram, dry-fit, and deathnote.

I recognize manho, snowbunny, imaginality, and hayker.

I guess activity does allow me to get to know people

[RayFrost]

Yay, now we can start!

and I now get to be in a game with the V

i

[RayFrost]

Now remember the 5 D's of dodgeball. Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

/confirm

That was an epically hilarious movie.

[RayFrost]

vote: CooLDoG

pure OMGUS, not really buying the KMD case.

I don't see how not answering in just one post is "not defending oneself," mind explaining how it is bad when one could answer it a couple posts down the line anyway?

[RayFrost]

Oh, on the experience question...

I've only got two completed games under my belt, but I'm in ~12 games and active in all of them but one (which I recently replaced into... been procrastinating on that and should post e.e). I could get names & links and stuff, but I'm too lazy to do that.

re Kmd: yup. not buying the case, but that hardly prevents me from keeping a remnant of the RVS in the OMGUS. Of course, I just remembered tubby also voted for me

unvote, Vote: Tubby

cuz he noted that I noted that we are in multiple ongoing games together (and cuz I luvs me the OMGUSoup).

[RayFrost]

BTW kmd, you've got a weird avvie.

He lost an avatar bet this one time...

though I think this is the one ether gave him.

[RayFrost]

Kmd:

I got in late, so I wanted to get the RVS out of my system, plus... I haven't really had time to gather my thoughts. Too busy in another game.

[RayFrost]

bub made an illogical counter to a valid point.

Also, his actions toward Kmd could be considered a chainsaw defense of cool, I think...

Got no better candidates, so:

unvote, Vote: Bub Bidderskins

[RayFrost]

Why do people feel they need to be "convinced" by the colddog case in order to vote him?

Would you vote for somebody if you didn't believe they were scummy?

Why? Why not?

[RayFrost]

I really dislike RayFrost throwing his vote around, especially considering two of his three votes up to this point were late on wagons that were going places.

I believe I said this before:

I was late for the RVS. I got my personal RVS out, and I moved on.

I didn't buy the CDG case, and i said that straight out.

I

do

find the Bub case compelling, especially with his recent reactions.

[RayFrost]

Well...

Another possibility for CDG's attack:

he's the other bandwagon.

He wants to save his hide.

Thus, go for the other popular choice.

[RayFrost]

Trying to decide if Bub or CDG is scummier...

As it is, I don't want the lynch happening too quickly, so...

unvote

until I decide.

[RayFrost]

I'm heading off to sleep. bye peeps

[RayFrost]

The scummiest scum:
RayFrost - "Random" voted on a player who already had a real case on him. Switched to another random vote when called on that. Bad vote on Bub. Sets himself up to vote either of the two leading wagons with his unvote and "can't decide" comment.

My reaction to seeing this and the vote:

"I was wondering when something like this was going to happen..."

I know my starting-the-game playstyle is terrible, which is why I usually stick to replacing in.

As it is, the case is accurate of what I've been doing up until now, even if the alignment perceived from it isn't.

This is actually one of the first times I've been called out on something that I can follow the logic on =/ much harder to defend myself when I can see the validity...

I could post a list of my own suspicions, but I doubt that'd help. I guess I'll just leave you both on me and as is until I'm feeling better.

[RayFrost]

vote RayFRist

Feel free to explain that vote and how what I said was scummy any time, Jordan.

Or is that not possible because you are just following Vi & Kmd?

[RayFrost]

I'm sorry, I thought the qyote was my explanation...
I don't blindly bandwagon.

In my expirience as mafia, covering up for my mistakes by calling myself a bad player was one of my (poor) strategies.

Eh. I am not you.

I wasn't defending myself because he has a valid case.

From my understanding, you are under the belief that I would go for the "oh, I'm such a terrible player" strategy?

For one, the quote only states that I'm bad at start up once.

For two, I said the case on me was valid, thus I was not covering up what I had done that was scummy.

For three, this really seems like you are trying to avoid Kmd's suspicion since you were also on his scummy list.

[RayFrost]

I was on a scummy list? I really need to re-read better.

Nonetheless, its not just that one quote, but ofc the others' suspiciouns as well. I would never base a vote on simply 1 post.

And furthermore. What does being on a scummy list have to do with my suspicions against you? Is that just basic OMGUS?

"~Jordan` - You say you love an active game, yet you only have one post-RVS post. And it's one of the worst posts in the game." - Kmd

If you knew his suspicions, you knew you were on the list... so either you didn't know others' suspicions, or you did and are feigning ignorance here.

I have no real suspicion of you, personally. I will point out that which is out of sorts to me, scummy or otherwise.

Not sure how it is omgus if I'm not voting for you or retaliating.

Pointing something out =/= calling it/the person scummy.

[RayFrost]

I similarly disagree with your SSK read, because I think he actually

would

follow his buddies blatantly tbh.

Meta examples?

im sorry, im a little unfulfilled in the mafiascum lingo.

meta examples?

meta as in metagaming

as in viewing the playstyle of somebody from a bunch of games they played in the past and using that as a basis for opinions.

[RayFrost]

I similarly disagree with your SSK read, because I think he actually

would

follow his buddies blatantly tbh.

Meta examples?

im sorry, im a little unfulfilled in the mafiascum lingo.

meta examples?

meta as in metagaming

as in viewing the playstyle of somebody from a bunch of games they played in the past and using that as a basis for opinions.

opinions and alignments and reads in general

[RayFrost]

So you are conceding to everything in the case except being scum. That's like being on trial and saying that the DNA evidence presented against you is correct, but you still didn't do it.

Unvote, Vote: RayFrost

Can't exactly say "no, I didn't vote for these people" when I have, now can I?

I'm not one for lying. In this situation, there are a few things to note:

the case on me is my voting pattern

I can't deny what my voting pattern is because I have voted for these people at these times

Saying it is a valid case is saying "the case states the facts." Whether they display scummy or non-scummy behavior depends on your perspective

As it is, I'm too tired to do much in the way of self-defense.

[RayFrost]

Sigh RayFrost. That's philosophy you speak of now.

We don't know what you are thinking. You hvae to tell us and hope we blieve you (the more valid the defense, the better) or we have to make predictions.

confirm vote: RayFrost

I suggest you get some energy.

Pressure causes the reaction of me getting energy and becoming more aggressive for some reason. As it is, I probably shouldn't even be online right now, since it's mentally draining. I'm gonna move my computer into my room, which will take about 15 minutes. After that, I'll try working out my mental block.

[RayFrost]

See something that doesn't match there?

He spends most of his ingame posts until that last post

saying that he doesn't buy the CD case, and then suddenly he's having troubles deciding who's scummier between Bub and CD? What made that change of mind, RayFrost?

Emphasis mine...

I don't think 3 or so posts out of 21 is "most" of my posts...

Also, I wasn't justifying it so much as giving the (terrible) reasons that would go into him voting for BB. All of those reasons are basically... "I don't want to die" at the heart, making CDG's actions scummy.

I've figured out what my mental block is and why replacing is easier for me =/

I do a LoS every time I replace in, and it focuses my mind, leading to me being a rather active scum hunter. It's like an anchor to my otherwise drifting mind.

That being said, I think I'll cut my LoS to just my three scummiest reads.

p.s.: main problem with the health is it in conjunction with it being ~10 AM when I started posting. if I'm still feeling as bad as I do currently tomorrow, I'm taking a day off to rest.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP:

haven't actually done the LoS yet.

will get to it after I deal with some stuff in my other game(s)

[RayFrost]

See something that doesn't match there?

He spends most of his ingame posts

until that last post

saying that he doesn't buy the CD case, and then suddenly he's having troubles deciding who's scummier between Bub and CD? What made that change of mind, RayFrost?

Emphasis mine...

I don't think 3 or so posts out of 21 is "most" of my posts...

If you read well, I specified that it was until that post, which was your post number 12 or 13. Half of the posts were random, and the half of the remaining were those where you said you didn't buy CD case.

Then you'd have to take into account there were 5 posts of mine in between, as well as ~14-15 hours, before I did the unvote. That is plenty of time for people on MS to make a lot of posts.

[RayFrost]

Oh, noticed something.

Second quote: used past tense, didn't state my current thoughts on the case, though I did state my feeling toward the bub case

Well...

Another possibility for CDG's attack:

he's the other bandwagon.

He wants to save his hide.

Thus, go for the other popular choice.

Also, this quote (especially since CDG agreed these were his reasons) is a rather major sign of scum points for CDG.

And then another thing, I was heading off to sleep, and I usually end up thinking about stuff like this while in bed. Thus, I was actually considering it.

Would it have been better if I didn't state my intentions and just (possibly) did a seemingly sudden 180 and started agreeing with the CDG case?

I was pretty sure that making sure people knew what I was thinking was important...

[RayFrost]

So Ray's defense is "uh-huh, good case"? Ok...

More of a "uh-huh, I do have that vote history" without calling it a good or bad case, but eh.

A thing about the case on me:

I believe it is based upon my vote history...

My vote history is three votes, two random, one serious.

I gave my reasoning for the serious vote, even if you didn't actually like it.

Also, to blame me for living in Japan (which is why I was late on the RVS) is kinda... a bad case.

[RayFrost]

You didn't call it good or bad, but you called it valid, which is similar to "good".

Actually, the main thing I didn't like was what Snow pointed out. You didn't suspect CooL at first, but then said you couldn't decide which of CooL and Bub (leading wagons) was scummier. You basically set yourself up for either of the two lynches (assumes both CooL/Bub town) or let yourself say you suspected your scumbuddy, but thought the other player was scummier (assumes one of CooL/Bub scum and the other town).

Being late on the RVS wasn't a point against you. It was the fact that your supposedly random vote was placed on a player who was already being wagoned.

eh, it was a random vote.

Also, I pointed out that he had made a vote for bub that was scummy, which caught my attention, since it was something that was rather blatantly desperate & scummy.

That made me go back over your case on him and his posts (mentally, not in actual reading) and see if I find him scummy. I did, and so I unvoted. It was late, so I decided to make the decision on who I found scummier after I had slept.

[RayFrost]

Vi, I assume (by your lack of voting & response to my defense) that you still find me scummier than all other alternatives?

If so, would you mind, y'know, deflating my admittedly mediocre defense?

[RayFrost]

RF, when you're done with the AtEs give me a cue XS

Hmmmmm...?

I'm getting to work on a LoS (list of suspicion), so no worries.

[RayFrost]

@snow- no, I dont'

know

tubby isn't scum. vote away, whatever. I just don't see it, and

as I knew would happen

it's already devolved into a "have a look at my meta!" fight. pointless.

So... did you vote me purely to prevent the bandwagon on tubby from picking up steam, or do you find me scummier than all other alternatives?

[RayFrost]

I've been procrastinating, sorry about that. I'll do it tomorrow, J-time.

If I don't, then feel free to lynch me (self-pressuring >.>).

[RayFrost]

RayFrost is joining other games but isn't posting here. More votes for RayFrost, please.

I'm working on my LoS, thank you very much >.>

[RayFrost]

RayFrost is joining other games but isn't posting here. More votes for RayFrost, please.

I'm working on my LoS, thank you very much >.>

said the lurker

mhmm...

gimme ~30 minutes to an hour.

[RayFrost]

That most be the longest and most detailed LoS in history, if it took you so much to get it done.

not really.

As I said, I was procrastinating.

I say ~30 minutes to an hour because I'm reading players in iso, and I don't actually know how long it will take me. Thus, I'm giving myself more time than I think I will actually need... something I learned from trips: plan to have delays and thus give yourself extra time.

[RayFrost]

♣

scummy

♣

alvinz - hasn't posted content, only quotes and then votes with no explanation or reasoning. active lurking, voting without reasons, and no content to help scum hunt = scummy

CDG - he voted bub to save his own hide. scum & third party roles will want to survive, but town will not try to lynch town in order to survive. In addition, he didn't even state his real points when he voted for bub. ++ scum points. he also kinda misrepresents me... I didn't jump on Vi at all. not to mention he says we should

not

go after somebody we read as scummy (bub) and instead go after me for lurking and a poor vote history... wait, wait... how does that make sense? go for the wishy washy lurker over the scum read... hmmm... that makes complete sense [/sarcasm]

~Jordan` - caims to want to help town and ikes activity, yet is inactive, posts litte content, and seems to jump on any wagon that a person gives even subpar reasoning for. his votes have only come onto people

after

other people vote. by voting, he must find these peope scummy, yet he doesn't unti somebody brings it up. This shows a willingness to jump onto any wagon without considering whether the player is really scummy... scum points for jordan

Hayker - calls CDG out for being scummy ("you're triggering my scumdar like no tomorrow") yet doesn't change his earlier vote from bub.

Bub - he didn't respond well to the case made against him, he attacked Kmd with points that didn't really make any sense... 1st vote != bandwagon vote, nor is it asking for a quick lynch. he blames people of trying to continue the rvs until about page six, I think... which is totally confusing.

lowell - low post count & content. kmd himself conceded the random vote points, and lowell pointed that out as his main reason for the vote on me later says he "largely agrees" after earlier saying he finds some of the points questionable contradiction is scummy

♣

neutral

♣

sajin - asks valid questions of people in an attempt to get reads, though I am confused by the choice to try and pressure vote tubby into posting content when there are cases made by other players, towards which he has not given a stance or expanded upon at all

manho - doesn't take much of a stance toward bub/Me while saying he doesn't really see the cases as all that valid. votes tubby over CDG for not defending himself, but doesn't give his reasoning for finding both to be equally scummy. leaning scum read

tubby - provides very little content and doesn't weigh in on quite a bit of the town's stuff (CDG, BB, etc)

deathnote - says he doesn't like the CD/BB scenario, yet he does nothing to attempt to change it. he keeps his vote on CD and stays out of it until the sit. with me and keeps his vote until changing to alvinz, which is rather sudden, as he seemed to believe that a CD, BB, or RF lynch was the best town choice for the day.

MafiaSSK - not really any posts, no read.

vaya - two posts. confirm and respond to prod post. nothing else.

can we get a prod/replacement here?

imaginality - not enough posts to get any read on him. completely neutral

milkshake - has a case of TV on bub, as far as I can tell, doesn't weigh in on the RF case, rambles slightly in posts, has a few late-game ones with no value... other than that, his case on bub is decent enough

♣

townish

♣

snow bunny - consistent opinions, continues to post her thoughts about ongoing interactions, asks questions, <insert generic stuff here> and that's it.

Dry-fit - has very few posts, but succinctly states his opinions and reasoning. has logical points.

dramonic - seems to be searching for scum, gives his opinions and viewpoints on the players and sticks by them.

V

i

- active scum hunting, doesn't just go along with other people in the town, sticks by the cases made, applies pressure where needed, blah <enter all the stuff that will be considered generic and just filler here>

Kmd - actively scum hunting, though a little on the aggressive side. avoids TV and makes moderate but sound cases on people and sticks by his reads also asks questions of other players when he disagrees with / doesn't understand their reasoning.

In result:

vote: Alvinz95

[RayFrost]

Not impressed with Ray's LoS. Anyone wanna guess why?

I haven't defended myself from your case? You are part of the "town" section? You disagree with my reads?

[RayFrost]

I want anther vote count plz...

RF looks scummy to me more and more... He seems not to want to defend himself, and thus lurked for a while. The he saw that people were getting on to him so he posted his LoS. I want more votes on RF (again not for a quick lynch, the next dude who tells me I want a quick lynch I will try to hammer to the best of my ability.). I think most of his clams are bogus. Look at AL, he accuses him of lurking when he himself was/is lurking also.

Also to defend my self (ray I un-like you will do so) I jummped on bub's wagon because how else could I contribute to the game? Voting for myself might be a start from what you are saying, and just an FYI ray was the one who did a double omgus vote for almost no reason whatsoever.

And he also labels other people as scum for their voting methods, whn he has yet to defend himself, Ray you have a little defending to do. While he lurks keep the votes coming!

I said I'd post a LoS before people bothered me, so...

Also, I don't really think I'm in the same level of lurking as Alvinz.

Excluding his most recent post he has not really provided

any

content. Just votes.

And I already explained the OMGUS votes were random votes, thank you very much.

How about you detail

your

individual case on me, hmmm?

It's obvious that my explanation of why I shifted in my read of you was insufficient in answering the suspicion of me that it caused. *shrugs* I explained it. Thus, I have defended myself, even if I haven't

avidly

tried to make the town believe me in

every

single post.

[RayFrost]

Rayfrost's player by player analysis looks like he's trying to prove his worth. And it looks a bit bitter.

Sometimes in mafia a mediocre early case actually hits scum. I believe that's what has happened here.

It's how I do my LoSes. You can meta me if you want

Also, how does it look bitter? O.o"

[RayFrost]

You commented on Bub, but didn't really say anything about the wagon on him.

Your comment there was just stating dramonic's point was still valid regardless of how long ago the post was, not stating that you found the point valid enough to be vote/suspicion worthy. Wagon comments =/= your comment there. That was also your only one towards him.

Also, though you have made a few comments on others, you actually haven't said your take on them

ie: you haven't said if you find the cases valid, if you disagree with them, etc.

[RayFrost]

Fine. I pointed out why I thought both CD and Bub were scummy. I agree with the wagons as the points behind those wagons are both valid. I still prefer tubby's completely antitown stance for a wagon. Who would you rather be in a endgame with?

Personally?

If I had to choose one, I'd choose... Bub, I guess.

Why do you ask?

[RayFrost]

wow....

I dont like your LoS at all. It seems all you did was tell us what our opinions are at the moment. For instance, you put me a Neutral and said that I feel we should lynch BB, CD, or RF. Yeah that's true but this is suppose to be your opinion on me, not quoting what my opinion is.

I don't like the CD or BB thing because I am not a very trusting person. The two have fairly similar styles of writing and although they are claimed brothers and it would make some sense for them to write alike, I just overall don't trust it. There is nothing I can do to change it which is why I haven't said anything until now, but this fact does have some influence over why I voted CD.

.-. I put each person in a position and then use the space next to it to detail what I see that explain put them there.

Of course, as soon as I come in with the LoS... I'm called scummy for it, when I was scummy for not doing it...

could this be called a situation of...

damned if I do and damned if I don't

[RayFrost]

No, I think some of the people voting damned you before you even considered the LoS. I was just pointing out what I disliked about you LoS... if you had posted one that satisfied me, then I wouldn't be suspicious of you.

I suppose some people did suspect me before the 19th, true enough.

[RayFrost]

I'd also like to question the list, but in a different way.

Why are tubby and DeathNote neutral on your list, as opposed to scummy?
If Bub and CooLDoG are both on your scumlist, why is Hayker scummy for not being able to decide between the two?

I'm uncertain about tubby's play. >.> I don't exactly have meta on him, and it'd be rather hypocritical of me to call him out for not defending himself when I haven't done so, as far as town consensus in regards to me is concerned.

For DN, is there any reason I should find him to be scummy over neutral?

Hayker keeps a vote on Bub despite stating that he finds CDG to be extremely scummy (see "setting scumdar like no tomorrow" thing). If he sincerely believes that, why would he not change his vote? From what I could tell, he found CDG to be scummier than bub (which was part pressure and part case), yet didn't change his vote to represent that.


re kmd:

Would you have preferred I went through, saw what everybody said, and just said something completely different, rather than what I honestly thought?

[RayFrost]

re kmd:

Would you have preferred I went through, saw what everybody said, and just said something completely different, rather than what I honestly thought?

No, if you're town, I'd rather you think for yourself instead of summarizing what everyone has said all game.

I made my LoS by reading each person in Iso and typing up my reads from there. Care to explain how I would have been summarizing what others said if I was typing my thoughts directly from reading?


Dramonic:

What exactly about my response is suspicious/scummy/etc?

[RayFrost]

it's an echo of other players, from one end to the other.

orly?

Okay, point out who stated the reads I did for dry-fit, lowell, DN, and also the positions on the scumminess level for everybody on the scum list (in case you don't know what the order means: top to bottom, scummiest to towniest).


Vi:

what is making you have cold feet?

[RayFrost]

Also to defend my self (ray I un-like you will do so) I jummped on bub's wagon because how else could I contribute to the game?

Um, how about actually scumhunting and bringing a case against someone? Jumping on wagons for the sake of creating content is not a pro-town way to play.

I still think CooLDoG is scummiest, but I am not opposed to a RayFrost lynch.

Without adding really any more reasons to the case?

I'd like to see some addition to a case from you please.

If we go down the case additives route... why don't you add to my case, if you have support for it?

Also, didn't you have your vote on bub? What made you change your mind about 'im?

[RayFrost]

nevermind, iso'ed and found the change.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP: the bub question still stands though... what changed your mind about 'im?

[RayFrost]

I'm not exactly planning on doing that. It'd be long, tedious and a serious waste of time. You say that as if I'm the first one to call you out on your LoS (which can hardly be called a LoS)

the point is you aren't the first, and you actually haven't done anything but echo the others' suspicion of me, which is exactly what you are saying I did... except on a larger scale on my part.

Hypocrisy.

[RayFrost]

After amassing a certain amount of accusation, the cases on you are bound to be redundant. However, it's less than credible that your LoS mirrors the general consensus almost to a tee.

So everybody finds these people to be scummy in the same rankings as I put them?

So Kmd is more townish than Vi in everybody's opinion, Hayker is scummier than Bub, and alvinz is scummier than CDG... all in the opinon of the general consensus? Damn, I didn't know I could exactly state the very ranking of suspicions from scummiest to most town from iso reads...

The order in which I put the names has an actual meaning, so, unless the general consensus is that order, I'm not exactly seeing the general consensus argument. you having that be the only thing you say about it was kinda the last straw for me =/

Hell, let me extend this argument to Kmd as well:

how about your response to my defense for this part of the case, kmd?

Would general consensus put almost all of these players in their exact positions of scumminess?

[RayFrost]

There's a somewhat clear difference between a general consensus and unanimity that you seem to have missed.

So... replace "Everybody" with "general consensus" and then reply to it...

[RayFrost]

Vi:

what is making you have cold feet?

It's mostly to do with that sudden three-person jump onto your wagon.
I'm not quite sure what to make of your fervent defense of your LoSing at the moment, although I think you can see where I'm leaning.

That I'm scum, but there are better scum possibilities out there?

[RayFrost]

Vi:

what is making you have cold feet?

It's mostly to do with that sudden three-person jump onto your wagon.
I'm not quite sure what to make of your fervent defense of your LoSing at the moment, although I think you can see where I'm leaning.

That I'm scum, but there are better scum possibilities out there?

That's not where I was going with that...

I'm not exactly good at reading minds, Vi. I'm a VI in that department, so yeah. My next guess is... you find the people jumping on my wagon late to be scummy?

[RayFrost]

I don't think anyone will be jumping on your wagon any more until more evidence is shown. The reason being is that people will fear being accused scum for wagoning this late,

as you just did

. I would have voted you, but my issue is still with alvin/CD/BB.

As I just did what? O.o

[RayFrost]

Oh, I am just guessing, cuz I don't know.

[RayFrost]

Ray, "general consensus" is NOT an exact measurement and you know it. What I'm saying is that most of who everyone finds scummy, you find scummy. Most of the players who haven't really been called scummy, you list as town. Just because a few names (Lowell, Dry-fit) are moved around doesn't mean the rest isn't just a scummary of what everyone else has said.

You ignored the bit about the order of my list.

Even if "general consensus" puts people as scummy, that does not dictate how scummy "general consensus" finds each person individually, so to say I match the "general consensus" would require you to explain how I match "general consensus" on how scummy each player is, or your case on my matching "general consensus" is rather weak and reaching.

Tubby: better I be trying my best to convince town not to lynch me regardless of alignment than doing virtually nothing regardless of the pressure others apply to me or the cases they make

Oh, and something I just thought of:

Alvinz, you either admitted to being an active lurker (Scummy) or are suspicious of me due to OMGUS (scummy). Either way, thank you for displaying your scumminess

[RayFrost]

RayFrost 456 is unappealing on at least three different levels.

How about you explain what you are talking about instead of being vague? It might help when I try, y'know,

learning

from my games.

[RayFrost]

RayFrost 456 is unappealing on at least three different levels.

How about you explain what you are talking about instead of being vague? It might help when I try, y'know,

learning

from my games.

This post makes me think.

ugh... you are deliberately being vague to annoy me, aren't you >.<

[RayFrost]

@RayFrost: Yes!

1.
You: You can has list
Kmd: This list looks like what everyone else has been saying.
You: NUH-UH not everyone has said it
Kmd: Fine, this list looks like what everyone who's anyone has been saying.
You: NUH-UH it has a slightly different order
Kmd: So what?
You: SO YOU HAVE NO POINT

...seriously? The major reason I'm leaning toward you-Town is because you-scum would have more sense than to cling to this kind of terrible argument.

2. "Hey tubby - at least I'm not

you

OHHHHHH"
Is that some kind of attack?

3. I'm hoping your points vs. alvinz are a joke a some level. Yes, he's acting suspiciously (or in his case reasonably normal tbh). Everyone knows it. There's not a huge point in emphasizing it unless you're pushing for his lynch, which this tagline on your last post isn't doing.

-----

Cut by alvinz: On second thought alvinz is being awesome.

1. >.>

2. <.<

3. he wasn't posting much to explain anything. now he has. =/

[RayFrost]

So...

am I just an idiot, or am I an idiotic scum?

[RayFrost]

oh, ur scum, RayFrost. Just look at that little pm there.

Odd, it says town.

Besides, I was asking Alvinz about his read on me.

[RayFrost]

I think you're the third scum of Alvinz theory, so...

You're idiotic scum *pat pat*

Ah, okay. wasn't sure on that.

Oh well, I'm probably the best lynch for the day, then, since I'm so completely useless.

[RayFrost]

poor thing, ask jordan to hug you

... no comment.

[RayFrost]

yayz, alvinz is posting.

unvote

re cooldog:

I have not denied that I did OMGUS votes. I'm denying (and have continually done so) that the votes were

serious

. They were OMGUS Random Votes. If you can't tell from the fact I

blatantly

said as much, then you really should pay more attention. So...

Q1 : which change are you asking about? the one from (OMGUS) on tubby to bub or from you to tubby?

Q2 : I said they were OMGUS cuz they were Random Votes.

Q3 : I do admit it. That's just not what people are asking about. Misrep noted.

re kmd: so... I'm suspecting the suspicious people. Gee, that makes me obv. scum doesn't it.

If you go down that route (of finding suspecting the wagoned people scummy), CDG is doing the same (suspecting bub & me and just now starting to suspect milkshake

after Vi shows suspicions

), but his is just not as obvious is it?

Note: I bet you are going to say that's deflecting. Me saying it's not is probably just going to lead you to saying it is, and this note will make the repercussions worse, but I'm still putting it here.

[RayFrost]

and FTR at hardee's we diud the ice cream+milk+banana=milkshake

Ah yes, I remember that now.
It's a shame Hardees doesn't use real ice cream any more IIRC.

yayz, alvinz is posting.

unvote

That was easy
Why not vote someone else, then?

voting somebody else would be a bother, and I'm weighing (well, trying to) the pros/cons of the cases put forth by alvinz/kmd/you.

as it is, I have a dentist appointment today, so yeah.

[RayFrost]

@alvin, stop quoting posts without explaining it. i can see the post when i was reading the game. if i didn't spot anything scummy in my own reading, i can't find it when you are quoting it again. so, put your own explaination after you have quote something.

SB's case on alvin may not be good enough, but it is still valid. so, alvin's case on SB is not valid.

Manho, do you have any support for your reasoning on the SB case being invalid? What is your support of the alvinz case being valid?

[RayFrost]

Tubby is still my main suspect and nothing has disuaded me from that. The fact that he has supported both the rayfrost and the snowbunny cases makes them read town to me currently.

The post walls are getting annoying to me.

So... the cases on me/CDG/bub/snowb/alvinz/etc have all been of little worth in comparison to the one you have for tubs?

Also, how does tubs supporting a case on me/snowb become indicative of townishness when he could easily be distancing/etc? Please explain your logic here.

[RayFrost]

Why is it that I have the same feeling toward this topic as Vi?

Also... Bub saying that Alvinz's

entire

case is invalid due to a

single

point seems really bad...

[RayFrost]

*sigh* alvinz you toped the "All time most fucking stupid post of this game!" no really that was very very stupid. made me crack up and roll on the ground. I don't see a reason to vote on him, I will keep my vote on ray for now, whom has fallen into lurking, again.

MOD: I want a closer deadline to get this game moving!

I prefer lurking over posting "I'm still here but don't have much to say because everybody else is saying what I would say while I'm busy sleeping" fluff posts.

Not to mention the following:

1. I've made my defense, nobody buys it... so I'll probably be teh lynch of teh day

2. nobody is asking for my opinion on stuff cuz who would ask "scum" their opinion?

3. I've posted all I think needs to be posted so far.

[RayFrost]

milkshake has acknowledged the points brought against him on many occasions, but has for the most part ignored them and in some cases mocked them. I would like to see more votes in his direction.

CooLDoG seems very eager to end the day. I know this game has reached a "wall" and not much is happening, but you're way too eager for deadline. Do you think a deadline lynch is the best outcome for the town?

Well, considering a deadline lynch would be of

me

, he would be overjoyed, ecstatic, and leaping in the streets throwing confetti into the air in his exuberant delight...

[RayFrost]

Ray, I just think you are the best option for a d-1 lynch, next to alvinz whom comes sorta close. Also I dislike milk. I want to keep my vote on you for now.

All whom have yet to vote: ZazieR, DeathNote, RayFrost, MafiaSSK , and ~jorden
need to tell us why they are not voteing. And also when did I ever say I wanted a no-lynch???? I want a lynch because it is best for the town, but not a d-1 no lynch

Eh, deadline lynch as in somebody lynched at deadline... I assumed that (since dry-fit said there would be one) it would b the person with the most votes.

I'm not voting because...

wait for it...

I'm uncertain between options.

Also, you didn't. You seem to have misunderstood what was said... nervous, much?

[RayFrost]

@KMD Because I saw that we only needed one more vote to deadline lynch, so We could get some real press on ray and them push the case while he is under press.

So... I wasn't under pressure when Kmd was pushing the "LYNCH RAY FROST" crusade with all his attention? I think you've pressured me about as much as possible. =/

As it is, I am inclined to believe nobody will further the case and people will just hop on without really any reasoning other than little "I agree with the case" stuff... =| Jordan is a pretty good example, atm.

[RayFrost]

Ray, you make it sound like I don't want to lynch you anymore.

You aren't pushing as strongly for it, anymore. Probably cuz I'm gonna get lynched, so yeah... =/

[RayFrost]

Vi, fair point.

Ray, what more can I do? I layed out my case already.

Do you think I

want

you to be doing more to get me lynched?

Anyway... =/ I dunno what to say, as I've said my stuff already. I'm guessing you feel the same way.

[RayFrost]

meh lets just lynch snow bunny and be done with it

So... you are just spouting that out? No reasoning? Nothing?

Also, weren't you pushing for my lynch (without voting) earlier?

[RayFrost]

Tubby explain, "let's lynch her!" for some weird reason does not cut it for me. Also to note ray has the votes for a deadline lynch so you, should be pushing that more. Like I will. I am pressed on time right now. But later today I will have a full two hours to work on it.

wait, wait, wait!! Hold up.

You are telling tubby to be pushing a deadline lynch of me

because

I'm the deadline lynch?

w...t...f... that doesn't make any sense, and it's scummy.

Explain.

[RayFrost]

wait... ZaZ is in the game? O.o

[RayFrost]

after rereading ray, milkshake and SB, i found the 3 of them all quite scummy, and i'll support all 3 lynches if needed.

unvote, vote: milkshake

as he is the 2nd in the vote count.

wait, wait, wait...

you are voting him over me/SB

purely

because he is 2nd in the VC?

[RayFrost]

Mod:

find fixing my tag?

Tag fixing is my pleasure any time.

[RayFrost]

wait, wait, wait...

you are voting him over me/SB

purely

because he is 2nd in the VC?

Considering the no.1 wagon is you, why are you complaining. Unless you'Re bussing of course...

I wanted to know his reasoning for voting one person out of three

equally

scummy people (in his opinion). If it was purely because of the VC, I would've found it scummy. As it is, manho's thought process is scummy, and the below will explain why


re manho:

That makes no sense at all!

You'll vote milkshake in order to try and get him lynched but if he gets close to my number of votes, you'll unvote, meaning you don't actually want him lynched.

You'd vote SB if SB had more votes, but you'd again unvote if it would lead to SB having more votes to me, so you don't actually want her lynched either.

your entire thought process makes now sense, manho.

Not to mention you say we are all "

quite

scummy" but "

not very

scummy" in the same sentence. This, again, makes no sense, but it is a direct and obvious contradiction, and you shouldn't be trying to get a "not very scummy" player lynched, or, if you are, you should be building a case to show that they are not the slightly scummy player, but, rather, the "quite scummy" player.

[RayFrost]

ray next posts this:

Well...

Another possibility for CDG's attack:

he's the other bandwagon.

He wants to save his hide.

Thus, go for the other popular choice.

try to make my ass look less scumy, but still keeps his wish-wash vote on me (this is looking worse for me every second!)

That's hardly going to make you "less scummy" in anybody's eyes, and it wasn't trying to make you less scummy. I said that already.

In fact, I do remember that I didn't actually have my vote on you at the time, so... =/

How is you wanting to save your hide (and thus going for the largest wagon other than your own... which you are still doing, pretty much, btw) making you less scummy? That's a blatant scum move.

[RayFrost]

Deadline is a little bit less than 24 hours from now... great.

Well, I'll just put out the people I'm currently going to be unhappy seeing alive:

manho - his recent stuff makes me twitch...

CDG - pretty sure I said why somewhere... *shuffles notes around) ah, right... he misrepresented what I said rather blatantly in his quote on page #28 and is what I quoted and replied to in #29 not to mention the stuff Kmd pointed out

[RayFrost]

EBWOP: forgot to add that manho hasn't really contributed much either (except "will reread players" and only recently found me scummy after finding me town which is really odd considering how little content manho has managed to post anyway)

[RayFrost]

At the very least you ought to put your vote where your mouth is.

thanks for reminding me

vote: manho

feel more solid towards manho's scumminess than CDG's.

[RayFrost]

Ray, how can I miss represent you if I used your own words??? I almost quoted every post between page 1-8! Now say that when you said " I did not have my vote on you at the time." is my point! After votes started piling on me you hopped an (in your own words...) OMGUSed tubby. So why did you hop after a case was made, and after a wagon got started? Those are the real questions that you need to answer to. So then you must admit that you were trying to set me up for a d-1 or d-2 lynch, since you un-voted during the first wagon.

So you are using my Random Votes... as proof that I'm somehow trying to get you lynched?

Also, if you note, I show how you misrep me, but I'll say it directly:

You say I was trying to "Defend/explain" your vote for bub... I just said a bunch of reasons for a player to do it. ALL of them were scummy reasons. To say it was trying to defend you would be blatant misrepresentation...

you are arguing about that which I'm not arguing about, so... yeah.

[RayFrost]

There's a chance the scum are voting me over Ray because Ray is scum, although personally I am neutral on Ray.

hold up... you don't think I'm scum, but I have to be scum due to the vote change to you? O.o wtf?


re CDG:

random votes need some reason for it, and OMGUS is a rather standard RVS reason... I've gone over this with Kmd already.

re Vi:

manho is scummy. thus, I'm voting him. he's contradicting himself rather consistently and the like, and is willing to lynch people he doesn't (but does, but doesn't, but does...) think are scum (instead of searching for the people he would think are scum and pushing for their lynch).

If you can't see that, then I'm only mildly surprised.

[RayFrost]

after rereading ray, milkshake and SB, i found the 3 of them all quite scummy, and i'll support all 3 lynches if needed.

unvote, vote: milkshake

as he is the 2nd in the vote count.

tbh, i still think ray is not that scummy, but it is still better than a no-lynch.

Um, what?

yes, ray is quite scummy, but not that scummy.

you can't be "quite scummy" and "not very scummy"

those are two very different things.

this is hedging your bets, which I find scummy... and is a pretty good reason to suspect you, not to mention the fact you didn't reply to my suspicions of you.

[RayFrost]

Contributing to a lynch is the ultimate judge of a vig? I didn't think so. But since you seem so sure of it, I will

unvote, vote: RayFrost

, for the reason that I mentioned recently: scum may definitely have been speaking with their vote by trying to lynch me, of all people, instead of RayFrost, possibly indicating scum-buddiness.

And of course I'm vig... I breadcrumbed it! Why else would I breadcrumb it? Fake scum vig breadcrumb (instead of doc or cop) "just in case?" Unlikely... vig has to prove themselves by killing somone who they think is scum!

lulwut?

You think I'm scum because of the bandwagon switch to you from me?

Then that would also make CDG scum for the bandwagon switch from him to me!

Your logic is fail. Your breadcrumb is just rather... bad.

And trying to save your hide a null tell depending upon how desperate you are to do it (the more you are, the greater it's a scum tell, imo).

Also, the sudden switch to you could just as easily be scum going along with town flow instead of scum trying to save their buddies.

Further proof of fail logic. Despite that, I'm sticking with the more suspect person: manho.

[RayFrost]

What, what's wrong with my breadcrumb?

You think I'm scum because of the bandwagon switch to you from me?

I think that since I'm town, scum may be betraying that you are their buddy by switching to me at this moment when it counts even though the only reasons people seem to think I'm scum is that I "tunneled" Bub (I did, so what?) and that (this one was new) I'm "lurking."

breadcrumb could easily be contrived.

and... umm... so basically what I said. You find me suspicious cuz you think the majority of your bandwagon is made up of scum, and you thus think that scum was bussing me hardcore earlier and are suddenly jumping onto you to avoid the earlier bus?

so... more fail logic.

[RayFrost]

oh... my super sense is tingling!!!

Milkshake will claim that tubby and I are scum buddies together and that tubby switching to a milkshake wagon from mine is proof!

[RayFrost]

you think the majority of your bandwagon is made up of scum

Obviously I can't be certain, but since I know that I am town, it seems logical that scum would dedicate a few of their number getting me up to lynch-world on not a lot of data.

I know that you are as eager to save your hide as I am to save mine. Surely you understand though that I know 100% that I am town and am (as I said earlier) uncertain about you. You're the only other viable vote at this point and even if only two scum thought it was safe to go for me over you, they are making a big difference at this point!

breadcrumb could easily be contrived.

This is the part I really don't understand. Contrived as in... I went back in my posts and found a breadcrumb?? That seems very unlikely. Or contrived as in... I made a just-in-case scum breadcrumb? In which case I refer back to confirming the vig claim with a vig kill.

it could be contrived just as easily as not. Despite this, I don't want you lynched... which is why I'm voting manho.

hey imaginality!!!

Have you read the thread?

From what I can tell, all you are doing is saying "lynch Ray!!!" without any reasoning behind it, and you aren't even considering other players

Perhaps there is a hint of desperation there?

[RayFrost]

Well, even if not interested in bribery/confirming me, you can still help the town.

I don't want to be lynched please I'm only playing in two games as it is!

I'm in ~14. You don't hear me complaining.

[RayFrost]

I'm liking a RayFrost lynch more from KMD death, but Snow_bunny is still just as scummy. I'll take RayFrost for now as night results are generally more reliable.

Suspicions:
-RayFrost
-Snow_bunny
-Bub
-tubby
-CooLDog

Vote: RayFrost

Once we're done with Ray, Snow_bunny is dead.

Ummm... how does Kmd dying make me more likely to be scum? Kmd was actively scumhunting and out spoken. After I was out of his line of sight (dead or alive), he'd move on with his scum hunting. He was a threat to scum

regardless

of if his suspicions D1 were right. You seem to think that

only

a me-scum would go for a Kmd NK.

[RayFrost]

I'm liking a RayFrost lynch more from KMD death, but Snow_bunny is still just as scummy. I'll take RayFrost for now as night results are generally more reliable.

Suspicions:
-RayFrost
-Snow_bunny
-Bub
-tubby
-CooLDog

Vote: RayFrost

Once we're done with Ray, Snow_bunny is dead.

why did a KMD death make ray more likely to be scum?

why did you only repeat the question I just asked? speaking of which, you never defended yourself against my accusations/reasons for voting you... nobody has done anything to exceed you, sooooo...

vote: Manho

[RayFrost]

I also don't think alvinz is scum, I just want him to post why he afidly voted fro one person d-1, and now goes the other way on d-2. I wish he would do this in one post instead of 2-3. I am still not liking ray, tubbers, or SB whom was my second pick on d-1 other then ray, but I never got a vote on here because I wanted ray more.

If you are still certain I'm scum, why are you not voting for me?

[RayFrost]

I am going to go-ahead and vote for

vote: rayfrost

because I am not liking his posts, and I still think he is scum. I just hopped milk because I wanted to have a lynch, nothing much else to post. I want every one to pick up and get the game going again!

[cue=two word answer]

explain more. [/cue]

[RayFrost]

i've defended myself:

let me say in the other way. the 3 of you are the scummiest, and all the 3 lynches are good to me, and better than a no lynch. so i'll do what i can do to get one of you lynched. if i voted ray, he will have 3 votes more than milkshake and make him the obvious lynch, but the difference is now one vote and others can easily get milkshake lynched instead of ray. i just want to give the others more choices of who to lynched.

tbh, i still think ray is not that scummy, but it is still better than a no-lynch. that may be the reason why i vote milkshake instead of ray, but i'm happy with a ray-lynch. i'll check again before the deadline and vote milkshake if neccesary.

and I responded, IIRC:

I'm not scummy but I'm the scummiest - contradiction

Voting milkshake "to give the others more choices" - empty vote excuse

Happy with a lynch of town read - scummy

Vote stays.

[RayFrost]

Apologies all. I have definitely been less active in this game than I usually aim to be. This is not specific to this particular game, the other games I've been in at the moment have also suffered.

I recognise that my lack of participation is anti-town. I am going to make every effort to be much more active from now forward. A post a day, at least.

Right now I want to vote tubby for how hard he pushed to get the vig lynched.

Vote: tubby

I approve of the pressure on MafiaSSK also.

Where did all your confidence that I was scum, go? It's not like I've suddenly become an obv uber townie.

[RayFrost]

SSK is a chronic lurker, thats the explanation. Solution: REPLACE HIM! DON'T WASTE TIME ON A LYNCH ON SOMEBODY THAT DOES THIS EVERY GAME! Any one who is jumping on the wagon is opportunistic I would say; anybody who is serious about lynching him is more likely scum. The fact of the matter is that SSK hasn't done anything, like literally, nothing scummy I would say, and SSK always does this anyway.

There's people that have done absolutely nothing and have posted scummy stuff, and those people are the ones that are for a SSK lynch, which includes: Snow_bunny, tubby, CooLDog, and others.

SSK is NOT the best lynch for today, we are not using any information from Day 1. REPLACE HIM!

I have a few questions...

1. what made you have the change of thinking me as likely scum as snowb to not-so-scummy?

2. do you think that

only

the people on this wagon are scummy?

3. if you think that

only

they are scummy, would you care to explain how I'm no longer a scummy read?

[RayFrost]

SSK is a chronic lurker, thats the explanation. Solution: REPLACE HIM! DON'T WASTE TIME ON A LYNCH ON SOMEBODY THAT DOES THIS EVERY GAME! Any one who is jumping on the wagon is opportunistic I would say; anybody who is serious about lynching him is more likely scum. The fact of the matter is that SSK hasn't done anything, like literally, nothing scummy I would say, and SSK always does this anyway.

There's people that have done absolutely nothing and have posted scummy stuff, and those people are the ones that are for a SSK lynch, which includes: Snow_bunny, tubby, CooLDog, and others.

SSK is NOT the best lynch for today, we are not using any information from Day 1. REPLACE HIM!

I have a few questions...

1. what made you have the change of thinking me as likely scum as snowb to not-so-scummy?

2. do you think that

only

the people on this wagon are scummy?

3. if you think that

only

they are scummy, would you care to explain how I'm no longer a scummy read?

I lol'ed. You didn't read anything I said didn't you?

1. I did not say SB was not-so-scummy EVER. EVER. EVER. Read it! I said she is just as scummy as you. You are scum from your poor play yesterday, KMD was killed and he was attacking you, and I find it weird that everyone shied off you and jumped on milkshake. My case really isn't complete yet, and some of my vote is gut feeling, I'll come up with a case on why later. You were on my scum list yesterday. Actually I'm really not too sure if your case is the best, my thoughts are jumbled up from the weird events that took place before yesterdays lynch, I'll reread the thread once I get the time.

what made you have the change of thinking me as likely scum to not-so-scummy was the question, perhaps you should read what I said?

2. Already posted my scum list! RayFrost, Snow_bunny, CooLDog, tubby, and Bub. What does this question accomplish?

it clarifies, since there are other people on the MafiaSSK wagon, yet you implied you thought they were all scummy... apparantly, you don't.

3. Wow, trying to avoid being called scummy? Me calling them scummy does not make you not scummy! where did you get that dumb idea.

"have posted scummy stuff" implies they were the only ones that did so. the fact I'm even bugging you about this (asking for clarification, etc) would show that I'm not trying to avoid it at all, now wouldn't it?

replies in bold.

[RayFrost]

Sorry I have been gone sooo long...

I don't think ssk is the best lynch for the day ether, I think ray is. But since we ned to build up press and he was lurking he was the best vote at this time. I will however not push for a quick lynch on him and will unvote if too much prees gets piled on him. I just want to get a wagon going, yet I still want ray lynched.

sooooo... you want a ray lynch but you don't want to be on the wagon when the lynch happens because it's not good but you still want it?

[RayFrost]

...

Just no.

Unvote
Vote: CoolDoG

reson pl0x

[RayFrost]

Did you read 851?

yea, but that's not voteworthy in of itself.

What did you take away from it? What other factors pool into voting CDG?

[RayFrost]

It's not even remotely clear and my perception is something along the line of "I think we should lynch Ray, but I'm voting SSK, but I don't want to hammer him or get on a Ray wagon."

Also, his play so far isn't what I'd call town <<

oh, I missed the mafiassk vote and only saw the FoS >.>

that makes sense to me still prefer a manho lynch.

[RayFrost]

Ok I seriously want to know how SSK's contributions are worse than Tubby's. Both are bad sure, but why could I not get the majority on board Tubby's lynch for pratically the same reasons as those on SSK's wagon are on there. I posit this is because Tubby is likely scum and SSK is likely town. So which of the fish on SSKs wagon do I have to shoot down with tubby?

If this is not the case, explain to me why SSK's case D2 is better than Tubby D1.

I'm not on either one why aren't you bugging me about my reasons for voting manho?

[RayFrost]

So which of the fish on SSKs wagon do I have to shoot down with tubby?

dramonic, maybe Hayker

RayFrost is much more likely than not Town.

what does this statement even mean?

[RayFrost]

Ray's curiosity about why people are putting him on the backburner bolsters my increasing sense that i might have been wrong about him D1.

who all have I bothered other than alvinz & CDG? How does this affect your read of me?

On D1 play I'd've thought if manho is scum so is Ray but that seems less likely with Ray going hard on him today.

would this be due to the fact I found him scummy late in the day and had my vote on him while he preached finding me scummy but not scummy but scummy but he'll vote somebody else? that seems more based off his scummy play than mine

I'm gonna get in the habit of making responses to stuff in the quote... in bold.

[RayFrost]

It is my opinion that you are statistically more probable to not be the opposite of the anti-Mafia factional alignment,

gramtically awckward, just say "more probable to be the anti-mafia factional alignment"

noting a possible exception in regards to the lingering extension that you may indeed be scum based on certain conditions which are not yet revealed and may possibly be indeterminate in fact; therefore my current conclusion is that your alignment is as if the caveat was immaterial and the normal case is indeed applicable in this scenario with such sufficient significance that the results are worth publishing.

could just say... "any reservations had would be based off of pointless speculation, leading back to the higher likelihood of you being town"

...I think that means

I'm pretty sure you're Town

did I properly summarize what you said?

[RayFrost]

i still don't understand the ssk wagon. can anyone tell me the reasons behind the wagon?

@ray, have you read my defense at the top of the page?

defense? oh, that?

you said the lynch is about who is scummiest, not who "must be scum"

if they must be scum, then they are obviously the scummiest... =/

what scummy points did I gather, then?

You didn't push for a milkshake lynch, nor did you really do much for any of the lynches. you just voted and didn't make a case / give reasoning.

I think that's called piggy backing... (when you follow others' reasoning with none of your own as the reason of doing something)

[RayFrost]

gah, responding to the prod. Sorry for not posting

I see Sajin's point against Bub.

Surely better to lynch tubby today though, Sajin? You're effectively assuming that tubby is scum in your case on Bub, so it's better to lynch tubby first to confirm that he's scum before lynching Bub tomorrow, rather than vice versa.

Why not lynch the one taking hypocritical stances first in case there is some bussing going on?

you can always lynch bub tomorrow whether he is hypocritical or bussing or whatever. you just need to gather the reason.

I like how you respond to Sajin but not me how about you do so?

re Sajin:

Think about it like this (assuming tubby-scum and possible bub-scum):

Tubby is confirmed scum, while bub is a coin toss.

it's better to go for tubs (100% scum) before going for bub (30~50% scum). The flip from tubs will give information regarding other players.

Admittedly, I find my read of tubs neutralish, so I don't back a tubs lynch. Despite this, you should be pushing for the more likely scum lynch than the lynch of the less likely, sajin.

[RayFrost]

Dryfit is kinda tunnelled on Cooldog. I think Dryfit could be scum, Cooldog could/would/will be an easy mislynch target for scum to push.

So you don't find CoolDoG scummy?

Tubby's play has not been like what I have seen from him as town. He has failed to give any reasons for his bad alvinz vote and has been generally unhelpful. I can only conclude that he is being purposefully antagonistic to try to throw us off.

unvote. Vote: tubby216

does this make him more or less likely to be scum, and why would it be indicative either way?

[RayFrost]

you said the lynch is about who is scummiest, not who "must be scum"

if they must be scum, then they are obviously the scummiest... =/

yes, but the inverse does not hold.

what scummy points did I gather, then?

i admit it is mainly based on gut feeling

You didn't push for a milkshake lynch, nor did you really do much for any of the lynches. you just voted and didn't make a case / give reasoning.

as i didn't have enough reason for the lynch.

You said lynch is about who is scummiest, not who must be scum. The inverse, truly, doesn't hold, meaning you are quite likely lynching who is not the "must be scum" category, meaning you are not lynching logically.

Scum points.

You say I gather scum points but it is based on gut, thus has no backing, and, thus, means you are almost certainly just following the trends.

Scum points.

you didn't have enough reason for the lynch, yet you were voting for him and thus showed your support of the lynch. more evidence of following common trends.

Scum points.

[RayFrost]

so why is following the trend scummy? you need to get someone lynch at deadline, or there will be a no-lynch, which is bad for the town. i really didn't know who must be scum then, so i went for the most scummy one base on my gut and the trend. there must be reasons behind the trend.

Well, the fact you don't have

any

reasoning for finding me scummy despite the rather extensive case(s) made against me says you were following the trend without knowing why the trend existed.

Blindly following is scummy.

If you didn't know who the scum were, and somebody was already guaranteed to be lynched (me), then your vote should've been left nowhere.

Merely voting to vote is scummy as it avoids having to defend yourself and the like.

Even if there are "Reason" behind the trend, if you don't know the reasons, you can't assess the value of the reasons and determine yourself if the person in question is scummy. The fact you were willing to follow so easily is the suspicious bit.

You say that you were voting for the people you found scummiest based off your gut and the trend. From what I can tell, you have no posts that set off a gut reaction of scummy, which means you were

purely

following the trend.

Following that, if you were truly just following the trend, you'd have voted me to "ensure" a lynch on me. The fact you didn't shows you weren't really following the trend, considering milkshake wasn't the largest wagon and was, thus, not the trend.

[RayFrost]

no, i follow the trend to look at you, milkshake and SB. and after rereading your posts, my gut said milkshake is the most scummy one.

is/was your "gut" actually set off by any post, or is this just a way of saying "I just played along"

[RayFrost]

i don't think so.

that doesn't answer what I asked.

[RayFrost]

no, i follow the trend to look at you, milkshake and SB. and after rereading your posts, my gut said milkshake is the most scummy one.

Sooooo... you voted him based not off gut which is what made you find milkshake scummy.

Am I the only one seeing the obvious backtracking/contradictions here?

[RayFrost]

no, i follow the trend to look at you, milkshake and SB. and after rereading your posts, my gut said milkshake is the most scummy one.

Sooooo... you voted him based not off gut which is what made you find milkshake scummy.

Am I the only one seeing the obvious backtracking/contradictions here?

Why do you find backtracking scummy?

Well, in this case, manho is saying that the vote on milkshake was just following the trends and that it's based off of gut, yet later says it's not based off of gut This is scummy, especially considering that it is actually a rather large part of manho's content (discussing the scummiest players at the time). With the backtracking with no real reason to do so, manho is showing:

1. a lack of any real conviction with his position

2. willingness to change his position just to

appease the person pressuring him

.

The first shows that he didn't really believe it in the first place, yet he contributed to a lynch. The second shows that he is attempting to seem more town by trying to "fit" a mold that the person (me) pressuring him has.

[RayFrost]

Yo Chamber, if you are scum, by all means

don't

make a case on somebody... oh wait...

[RayFrost]

I gotta ask:

Are

any

of you even considering my case on manho, or are you all just ignoring me, here?

[RayFrost]

Vote: tubby216

have no time to justify now im a bit short of time

FoS: Malpascp

have no time to justify now im a bit short on time

[RayFrost]

Hold up...

I'm the scummiest, but you vote mafiassk

because he is the biggest wagon

?

Explain how, if you are so utterly and completely 100% convinced I am scum, it makes sense to not push for my lynch (after all, I'm just uberly obvious scum, aren't I? ) and instead back the bigger wagon.

1. If I'm basically confirmed scum, iyo, then I should be lynched, meaning you should vote me

2. wagons can be shifted, so that's a rather fail reason

3. you seem to lack quite a bit of reasoning for the majority of your reads in that list.

Also, if I'm so completely scum, then manho should be basically confirmed town in your eyes, since I've been pushing for his lynch since near the end of D1 and haven't stopped doing so.

Explain, also, how the two people who would be town if I'm scum (and you consider me to be scum) are in the scum reads zone. (by the two people, I mean bub and CDG)

Your entry, however nice it is to see activity, is wanting. Lists should have reasoning (that'd be aimed at Vi, but I already got most of those reasons before... though I

do want some for those that haven't been actively stated

)

[RayFrost]

Anyway, I'll give my list a bit later, have other places I need to post, need to do a quick read of everybody to make sure of things, etc, etc. (obv procrastination, but I really do have other things to do... >.>)

[RayFrost]

Your entry, however nice it is to see activity, is wanting. Lists should have reasoning (that'd be aimed at Vi, but I already got most of those reasons before... though I

do want some for those that haven't been actively stated

)

I can read; you don't need bold.

You could make my life easier and tell me which ones you want clarification on, since I'm pretty sure I've given my opinion on about 16 out of the 18 players.

I put the bold to make sure it caught your attention (some people don't read fully, etc, etc).

Hayker (you were suspicious of him before)

Chamber/lowell

Imaginality

those are my main ones.

[RayFrost]

I'm also curious as to why dramonic didn't do much to dissuade the wagon, but I have my own theory about that.

If you look at who was present between the claim and the lynch you'll notice four players. Rayfrost, Tubby, Imaginality and I. The latter two weren't voting Milk and the former two are the ones you're accusing of "lynching the claim." The only one remotely receptive would have been rayfrost, but he was the backup lynch, how the hell am I to convince him?

Also, if your theory is more elaborate than "you are scum" I'd be interested in hearing it if you don't mind Vi.

oi, I wasn't voting for milkshake either.

I was just leery of the claim and applied pressure to determine if my vote should go on him. My vote remained on manho the

entire

time.

[RayFrost]

here's a little:

Scum:
Ray_frost
Snow_bunny
CooLDog
Bub
Tubby
SSK
blah blah blah the rest
roflcopter
Vi
Town

A few questions:

1. where did your lack of certainty of my scumminess go? It seems to have flown out the window as soon as roflcopter joined the game.

2. how is roflcopter town from the

very

few posts made in the game by that slot in general?

[RayFrost]

Rereading imaginality I think I put him so low because of

roflcopter's endorsement

. I think I'll reserve judgment on him until he shows up again and gets chunky with it. I wouldn't rate him as high as I would have at the beginning of the Day though.

Is it just me, or is roflcopter's entrance affecting a lot of people's reads?

[RayFrost]

Yeah lets kill the new guy cause he is studing
my justification isnt that convincent after all

unvote

1. I didn't vote you

2. unvoting after an FoS without giving any reasons is noted (saying your unstated justifications aren't convincing is the reason for your unvote hardly counts)

3. lack of content is also noted.

[RayFrost]

Well, nice to see somebody took Kmd's spot for leading the "kill ray, he's obv scum" torch.

point #1 by you ITT:

already had the shit discussed out of it. I explained my reason for unvoting, defended myself ro sme time on it, and then you ignore all that to bring it back up.

I'm not saying the fact I wasn't voting milkshake clears me. I felt dram's post

implied

that I was in fact voting for milkshake.

And why, pray tell, would I smear a claim from a guy that was doomed to be lynched?

Oh golly gosh darn, this guy has me all figured out! I'm just so obviously not pointing out that he, upon replacing in, took basically complete control over the town-attention and directed it toward whoever he wished (leading the town is something that's a null tell, but people following without really considering any chance of you being scum... suspicious to me).

Anyway, if I'll post my own list at some point (fully expecting roflcopter to say it's all bs, buddying, etc ofc )

[RayFrost]

(look at ray squirm and whine about how he only wants to post his top three. told you scum hate to post scumlists. they're never sure where to put all their scumpartners.)

1. I didn't do so in response to you, and the fact I actually posted one that, thanks to the fact I gave the

reasons

for all my reads, I got shot down for earlier just soooo shows how I'm scum not wanting to post it.

2. You've obviously never seen me play as scum... I always have a mental slot for whatever partners I have to call upon in case a LoS is demanded of me (I'm more prepared as scum for everything).

3. I've been told in other games that a LoS isn't a good thing and that only posting the top three is better since it doesn't give scum hints as to who your pro-town reads are, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. I'm finding the contrasting opinions difficult.

[RayFrost]

game theory-esque question...

what is appealing to sarcasm?

[RayFrost]

my scumlist:

Scum read:
CooLDoG
malpascp
Snow_Bunny
tubby216
RayFrost

Neutral read:
Sajin
Bub Bidderskins
MafiaSSK
Hayker
Vi
DeathNote

Town read:
imaginality
chamber
dramonic
roflcopter
alvinz95
Dry-fit

will explain the list if needed.

By all means: explain.

[RayFrost]

so many people listing rayfrost as top-tier scummy, so few willing to vote him

hey manho, why aren't you voting? why aren't you voting for rayfrost in particular?

Hi Rofl. I will follow you.

Unvote, vote rayfrost

I foresee rofl calling this obv bussing and buddying~

[RayFrost]

so many people listing rayfrost as top-tier scummy, so few willing to vote him

hey manho, why aren't you voting? why aren't you voting for rayfrost in particular?

Hi Rofl. I will follow you.

Unvote, vote rayfrost

I foresee rofl calling this obv bussing and buddying~

actually, that is called piggybacking

Then I foresee rofl calling it piggybacking

[RayFrost]

Dry-fit:

so far you've shown very little suspicion of me, and you haven't applied any kind of pressure or real notice either, yet you find me scummy. Reasoning please.

[RayFrost]

well at least ssk can be useful for something

So... the person you think is my most likely scum buddy is suddenly not worth bothering about? (honest question)

[RayFrost]

No you are not scum. You seriously want me to claim?

Vi was telling tubby to claim, not you.


rofl @ rofl: you don't think that the lack of bussing would be due to my not being a buss and, thus, they would be scummy for being on the lynch? Hmmmm? Why do I feel a case of rofl acting like charter-town in tunnel vision land? Also, what will be your plan after I flip town? I'm curious as to how you'll go from there.

[RayFrost]

The deadline is Friday. It's almost Tuesday. For the love of mod we need to get some bandwagons going. (Preferably the one I'm on)

I'd prefer a manho lynch. I've stated my case, now get on it! >:[

[RayFrost]

Chamber, why do you have a townish read on me? How is rofl's attack on ssk scummy/anti-town?

[RayFrost]

Hmmm... I have my vote where I think scum is most certain. Why should I move my vote from my largest suspect? Town will achieve a lynch even if I leave it.

My vote is not on manho just to have a vote on somebody. He's prob scum, he's been prob scum, and I don't think he'll stop being prob scum.

[RayFrost]

Hmmm... I have my vote where I think scum is most certain. Why should I move my vote from my largest suspect? Town will achieve a lynch even if I leave it.

My vote is not on manho just to have a vote on somebody. He's prob scum, he's been prob scum, and I don't think he'll stop being prob scum.

If we assume for a moment that he is scum, there are still a solid 3(need to check how many we started with but this number is probably at least 4) other players who are also scum. Your vote is doing nothing where it is atm. Try and find one of those other 3-4 scum(especially if you agree with one of the 2 non-you wagons). Town may achieve a lynch if you leave it, but they might achieve a lynch on someone else you find more scummy if you move it.

Okay, let's say I do change my vote.

If you were in my position, how would you go about deciding? Also, who would you choose right now?

[RayFrost]

Okay, let's say I do change my vote.

If you were in my position, how would you go about deciding? Also, who would you choose right now?

There is no right answer Ray. Just pick one of the two that actually has a chance of being lynched instead of trying to figure out who is the least likely to get you in trouble if lynched.

I was probin' chamber for a read. He's hard to get a read on until I do things like I did just now (feign ignorance and the like).

Chamber is prob town >.>

Anyway, lemme look through stuff and make my choice on who I think is manho's most likely scum buddy~

[RayFrost]

Of course Chamber is prob town, he's coached prob scum, and chainsawed for you and SSK by attacking ROFL and calling for his lynch.

1. has he voted for rofl?

2. has he even really payed attention to me until I started asking him direct questions?

3. has he said "lynch rofl" repeatedly yet?

If not, then chamber hasn't pushed for a rofl lynch.

Right now, I'm looking at a triad of scum in SSK, RF, and Chamber. CD possibly, though not as much.

Uh-huh.... Let's see your reasoning in one good post (I'll even do what I see for it right here to save you time):

1. ssk is useless and should be lynched, obv scum!

2. chamber is not liking rofl's attacks on ssk, obv scum!

3. ray, using his extensive meta on chamber, is calling chamber prob town, obv scum!

Really convincing case there, man. I'm almost tempted to just vote myself

unvote, vote: SSK

From your vote count, that would be L-1, right?

My, my... wanting the day to end early, bubers? L-1 and it isn't all that close to the DL...

[RayFrost]

I'd like to know how CDG's flip makes it more likely that I'm scum when he's been pushing for my lynch since... early D1, pretty much.

Unless you are saying that CDG and I came up with a seemingly ingenious plan to cross bus each other and failed to do so while both of us came up scummy (at once both uplifting and belittling our intelligence), I'm not sure how his flip would lead to me being more suspicious.

Also, what information do you hope to gain from my flipping? As far as I can tell, you'll (with 90% certainty) see me flip town and shrug it off and say I was failtown and ignore all my posts.

[RayFrost]

what's the other 10%?

They

might

not be that arrogant

[RayFrost]

Why are you voting snow bunny if you find bub "interesting" in a similar way?

[RayFrost]

Gotcha.

Just to make sure of something...

vote: manho

[RayFrost]

Possible doc protection and a paranoid gun owner/granny?

PGO would be dead too.

wrong,

the attacker/targetter would be dead.

vote ray

ITT tubs votes without reasoning... again.

Question:

what is a granny?

Question:

What ties me and CDG other than CDG finding me scummy from D1 (and me finding him scummy)? Unless one of you has a track or something, I'm not seeing any real connection.

[RayFrost]

Why has roflcopter disappeared?

Huh? I thought juls was rofl's replacement/alt...?

[RayFrost]

Nope.

Huh? I was making a pointed joke you didn't get...?

re the accusation of dodging:

I was not even here. I can't dodge what I don't know exist.. can I? O.o

re the question:

I think you are town.

[RayFrost]

lol.

I didn't dodge the question in that post. What I have to say about you: I think youa re town.

Also, the juls-rofl joke was cuz both of them are completely pushing my lynch and ignoring just about everybody else almost as if they turned on the T.V.

[RayFrost]

So, I see you are over coaching your scum buddy.

So, I see you are actually pointing things out.

[RayFrost]

so why is everyone voting without stating the reasons?

My reasons are zetta obvious from what I quoted.

At least applying pressure is better then sitting here saying nothing relevant.

I'm voting someone.
RayFrost is voting

manho, who is obvscum

.
You're voting someone.
chamber is voting someone.
manho is scum and thus I don't care if he's not voting.
dramonic is scum and thus I don't care if he's not voting.
malpascp looks like a n00b so w/ever.

Who am I missing?

Fixed.

[RayFrost]

bub and ray are both likely to be scum-buddy with cd, but i think ray is more scummy than bub, so,

vote: ray

Yeah... you've found me "more scummy" than everybody but the vig so far. Somehow, I still haven't stopped thinking you are scum. Maybe it's cuz you are.

[RayFrost]

What's a duff? arse?

Also, I dunno about dram being scum his play seems a bit consistent with town meta (though I lack scum meta, so... >.>)

[RayFrost]

What's a duff? arse?

Your British slang term matches my British slang term. Except I don't think either of us are British.

Could you point me to a Town game for dramonic?

Mafia 100 first game as vig, and I think I did decently on my choices. I replaced into that, town won, I shot dram on the day before lylo, scum shot somebody else and forgot to RB me, we lynched scum... ahh.... good times, good times.

[RayFrost]

Someone replaced out... as vig? I'm confused.

More like two people flaked out of being the vig and I replaced them. It wasn't a dayvig, btw.

[RayFrost]

And I had totally called the exact setup to you twat ;_;

Umm... you thought I was scum for bad reasoning and tried to defend hewitt, the rolecop claimed vig... I shot you cuz I didn't want to lose cuz I chose you over DN.

[RayFrost]

And I had totally called the exact setup to you twat ;_;

Umm... you thought I was scum for bad reasoning and tried to defend hewitt, the rolecop claimed vig... I shot you cuz I didn't want to lose cuz I chose you over DN.

Details details, just switch the two of you. In light of the rolecop flip I'd have expected you to shoot DN down

Whatever.

[RayFrost]

I think your strongly tied to rayfrost. Too tied for both of you to be town. Disagree?

Vi has modded a game I was in as town, so Vi has some meta on my town play. This might be how Vi is able to tell I'm obv town (it should be obv dammit).

I honestly find Vi to be a townier read cuz it'd be reeeeeaaaally easy to just push for my lynch rather than facing hyper-aggressive overconfident players like roflcopter~

[RayFrost]

Alright, lets go on and kill Snow_bunny and her pathetic defenses! Tomorrow Bub or RayFrost.

Reasoning for thinking I'm scum other than "roflcopter says so" in there?

[RayFrost]

You say I've been coached by a scum buddy (more experienced), but you think I'm scum buddies with people that are, quite frankly, not as experienced as I am?

Do explain how that makes sense.

Also, how is it wise to bus a scumbuddy that has had

NO

suspicion of him whatsoever (manho) for repeated days?

I lost in both my games as scum...

[RayFrost]

~Post 974: Remember that LOS? This is where it comes back into play. Look at this complete 180 on LOS. He suddenly thinks that LOS is a terrible idea! This feels like an experienced scummer has coached his/her little disciple in the night.

Or maybe I was doing this strange thing called "being honest" and also considering the fact everybody hated my previous LoS (and I've been given crap for them in more than half the times I've done them) as reasons to not do them.

[RayFrost]

Also, how is it wise to bus a scumbuddy that has had NO suspicion of him whatsoever (manho) for repeated days?

How is it wise to waste your vote on someone who isn't going to get lynched for repeated days?
Which one helps Town more?
Which one would scum therefore be more likely to do?

One thing I will note about RayofFrost, rereading, is that 92% of his activity D2 and D3 inevitably comes back to how whatever he's talking about ties into people suspecting him. His "objective" list of suspects is... manho. The RayFrost I see in the linked game is considerably more proactive.

Okay, mind changed. I would still rather lynch Snow_Bunny today on account of being insultingly obvious scum and already having a nice wagon, but if you put someone else I'm willing to vote for up to a larger wagon I'll switch.

Mind changed regarding...?

Point regarding manho is accepted, though I still want and will continue to want a manho lynch.

unvote

Also, more proactive when people weren't very proactive & when I had a lot of time on my hands to be frustrated and do stuff is different from right now when I'm in college and stuff.

I'm also trying to shape my playstyle to something I can keep up even during busy time to prevent having to replace out of games from being too busy.

[RayFrost]

chamber, a vote on Vi is a wasted vote for the day. The lynch will either be SB or Ray.

So SB and Ray are both running away from the attention and not posting in this game despite being around on the site.

@mod: Can we get prods of these two please...

Sorry, I have this bad habit of not paying attention for hours at a time to games where:

1. I feel I have nothing else to add and that anything I do add will likely be ignored or somehow be twisted as further reason to lynch me

2. I just don't feel like posting

3. 1 & 2

this game falls under #3

[RayFrost]

So SB and Ray are both running away from the attention and not posting in this game despite being around on the site.

@mod: Can we get prods of these two please...

Why do we need them prodded if we're already convinced that they're scum?

Good point. Just lynch us already.

In post-game, I'll have the right to say, in big red letters, "I TOLD YOU SO" in regards to me being town. I'll also have the right to say "I TOLD YOU SO" in regards to manho being scum if he is, in fact, scum.

[RayFrost]

In post-game, I'll have the right to say, in big red letters, "I TOLD YOU SO" in regards to me being town. I'll also have the right to say "I TOLD YOU SO" in regards to manho being scum if he is, in fact, scum.

Absolutely on both accounts.

Why are you against voting anyone except manho?

Manho is obv scum to me.

I don't have any solid scum read on others, so manho is the obv choice. (CDG died, bub is acting more townish as of late, imo, and SB just reeks of lazy town/scum that can be dealt with later, as interactions with SB are more revealing than the flip).

[RayFrost]

In post-game, I'll have the right to say, in big red letters, "I TOLD YOU SO" in regards to me being town. I'll also have the right to say "I TOLD YOU SO" in regards to manho being scum if he is, in fact, scum.

Absolutely on both accounts.

Why are you against voting anyone except manho?

Manho is obv scum to me.

I don't have any solid scum read on others

that are not already being pushed for and are aware of

, so manho is the obv choice. (CDG died, bub is acting more townish as of late, imo, and SB just reeks of lazy town/scum that can be dealt with later, as interactions with SB are more revealing than the flip).

fixed.

[RayFrost]

well, I'll go with a SB lynch and then y'all can lynch me tomorrow if I ain't dead yet.

Also, when I flip town, lynch manho!!!

vote: snow_bunny

[RayFrost]

eeeeehhhh... manho is still scum. it's very hard to resist the urge to bug the mod into making me a dayvig so I can shoot manho already...

[RayFrost]

Ray... plz stop tunneling. We are aware of your issue with Manho and I am sure it would be looked into eventually, especially if get lynched tomorrow and we learn your role.

SB plz claim so we can move on.

Deathnote... plz stop lurking. We are aware of your lack of time, and I am sure you will be available eventually, especially if you are at risk of getting lynched and us learning your role.

Deathnote plz provide content so we can make use of you.

[RayFrost]

The user you are trying to join is currently unavailable. If you want to know when they are free, press the star. 0,95$ fees are due.

No comment cuz I dunno what you are trying to say

[RayFrost]

I live in Japan. 'nuff said.

[RayFrost]

Japan is part of not-canada

No, Canada is part of not-Japan.

[RayFrost]

Yeah cause your giving so much info right now to help town.

Relative amount of posts...

you have 53

I have 174, including this post.

I believe it speaks for itself when there are more pages in the game than your total post count.

[RayFrost]

Considering half of your posts are probably not helpful just like your past few, I am not concerned with my count compared to yours.

Not to mention, I don't feel the need to have a high post count to prove I am town. Despite your rather lame accusations, I am going to stick with my vote on BB. I believe him scum and hope that others will join me on that.

You haven't read them, and that thus makes what you are saying there completely worthless as anything but speculatory stuff that could easily be proven/disproven.

I haven't said you are scum and nor have I said that my high post count proves I am town. Your misrepresentation have been noted for future reference for anybody that bothers to read my posts.

[RayFrost]

QFT.

What is this referencing?

[RayFrost]

Want me to claim? That wouldn't do anything. I'm not a pr, just a plain VT. Guess that doesn't help.

Any roads, go for Ray, Bub and tub.

Well, since you and I are already getting lynched (and, as far as I can tell, we can't do anything to convince anybody otherwise), it doesn't matter much what order we are lynched in. Ladies first.

re dram:

vi already said that.

[RayFrost]

re dram:

vi already said that.

say what?

Already demanded a claim.

[RayFrost]

The mafia should just do town a solid and kill me... too bad they aren't nice enough

[RayFrost]

ray stop playing the scape goat you suck at it. I have been doing it for a year now and i got it down.

I'm not

trying

to be the scapegoat. You can have that role for all I care, tubs. I just want town to win, and I don't mind dying if it means town can devote themselves to the task (btw, I will /facepalm if the scum team is Vi/Juls/Rofl together)

[RayFrost]

Vote: tubby216

Talking is tech.

[RayFrost]

And lastly.

I WAS SO F*3CKING RIGHT ABOUT SNOW_BUNNY

Yes you were, good job.

[RayFrost]

Tubby, why Alvinz exactly?

He doesn't like alvinz.

He made that clear before.

Read his posts.

[RayFrost]

I don't like Tubby, that doesn't make me want to molest him <_<

vote != molest

get yoh facts straight XD

[RayFrost]

Vote: Bub

Still thinking he is SK

scum dying be more important than SK dying.

[RayFrost]

I'm ignoring manho thanks to your previous statement that manho won't be lynched.

Finding other scum is important too, y'know.

Juls wasn't on my lynch as much as roflcopter, and scum NKs are WIFOM speculation at best.

[RayFrost]

Hmmmm...

Lynches I want (no particular order):

1. me - town is focusing on me to the point it's distracting from scum hunting for the real scum

2. manho - obv scum

3. tubs - hasn't done shit to help town, scummy fo' sho'

You all choose which one of these you want to do, and I'll support the decision.

[RayFrost]

Eh, "you guys" means the people I have town reads on (largest are Vi, rofl, and alvinz), and you all seem to disagree on who to lynch

[RayFrost]

But malpascp is scum though

As is tubs & manho.

I'm not scum, but enough of my town reads think I am that my death would, at minimum, decrease distraction for the town.

One question, though~~

What links do you see that would make it feasible for me to be a scum buddy for both SB & CDG?

[RayFrost]

or you could be scum with alvinz but i'd like to lynch alvinz first plz. ray makes me laugh and really happy when i have to read this thread in the morning

Hey! what's so funny?

Also, if alvinz flips scum (and you don't flip scum/cop)... I'll put in my sig "Tubby is god" deal?

Until then, teh vote ees on you

[RayFrost]

I remember seeing reasons to think tubby and SnowBunny could be scumbuddies. I can't recall what those reasons were exactly but I stand by them anyhow. Given the SnowBunny flip, it's tempting to add the vote to tubby already.

But it's hard to look past the fact that if chamber and Juls hadn't been NKed, Ray would be the guy being wagoned right now.

Chamber wasn't pushing for my lynch.

Roflcopter was the stronger advocate relative to Juls.

You not giving any conclusion past the information is noted, btw.

[RayFrost]

You saying you note everything that you don't like as it is negative to you is noted.

Soooooo... it's

not

scummy to post a bunch of already known and obvious information, fence sit, and not give any conclusions?

[RayFrost]

You saying you note everything that you don't like as it is negative to you is noted.

Soooooo... it's

not

scummy to post a bunch of already known and obvious information, fence sit, and not give any conclusions?

Sure that is scummy.... but your noting things all the time is also annoying.

It's the simplest way to point something out.

[RayFrost]

I

am

touchy when I feel that somebody isn't exactly contributing enough. Plus, your initial post either said something that others had said or stated the obvious. I dislike when people merely state the obvious... it is like the person is insulting my intelligence.

What do you mean by "Vi as dark horse?" seriously, I dun get it.

Anyway, how about this: (directed at the town in general)

we lynch me/tubby today

town lynches manho and tubby/me tomorrow and the day after (order of which is first in the pairings is not important)

I'll be cool with this chain of events. The flips will give info that'll be helpful in finding scum at minimum.

Also, why aren't you voting anybody, imaginality?

[RayFrost]

I suppose so (re obvious comment)

How do you think that I'm SK & Vi is SK?

That makes sense (re reason for not voting)

[RayFrost]

Does anybody disagree with what I said in post 1458? (ofc, that if void with manho flipping scum, as that changes buddy pairings and the like - same for tubs)

[RayFrost]

EBWOP: Actually, I would go ahead and put my

dinero

on roflcopter being scum right now. The SK would be well-advised to shoot him.

What's a dinero?

Also, if rofl is scum, doesn't that mean I'm town?

Also, if rofl is scum, so is alvinz. That's my take on it. (reference post 1471)

[RayFrost]

1. Mafia and SK, one of which no-killed until now (most probable)
2. Mafia and two vigs or mafia and vig/one-shot vig (still possible)
3. Two seperate scum factions (highly unlikely)
4. Some special double nightkill anti-town role/ability (also unlikely)

You are forgetting the flips of the jailkeeper and nurse, which would mean 2 possible roleblocks for both nights on a killing role.

Thus, there is also the possibility that one of the killers was roleblocked instead of no-killing.

[RayFrost]

Answering the question:

because manho is obv scum

also, I've started to remove myself from the dreaded T.V. into a less tunnelling game, but seriously... MANHO IS SCUM!!!!

Now, moving on...

my view of tubs as town is different from his current play, so my meta contradicts dram's. This is quite odd. (mafia #100, tubs was an active player and pressured instead of his current play and he was watcher, drammers)