Micro 75: Bureaucracy Mafia (Game Over)

[Maestro]

Two pieces of paper of paper have fallen to the floor. Now don't rush there's enough for everyone, well not really, so form an orderly queue and wait till we're at least at post 26 and post "Pick up paper" if there's a remaining one you would like to pick.

I claim one.

[Maestro]

Also, VOTE: pirate mollie for reasons.

[Maestro]

Oppressively bureaucratic, outwardly fascist, dictatorial, tyrannically-governed country.

FTFY

[Maestro]

"Diapers do not a nation make."

~mith

In EmpKING We Trust.

[Maestro]

*Covers it in red tape (literally and figuratively) until other players arrive.*

[Maestro]

^ Lack of input on the ongoing discussion is scummy.

[Maestro]

What.

[Maestro]

Yup. Now either RV or post nonsencial content.

[Maestro]

"

Pick up paper

"

To confirm, I just like goodies.
Let's see where this goes...

[Maestro]

Also, I've been making sense?!

MADNESS, HYPOCRISY, LIES.

A.J.'s 22 hurts my head to try to read again...don't do it guys, don't do it.
Joe's 23 is silly - I was asking for content, pure and simple.

Also I think everybody who wants the paper but was "sad they were too slow" should've read the first post better. I'm betting nobody had actually obtained a paper until Jake's 27, and I grabbed the second one by posting as directed in-thread...at least I hope that's how this went down. We shall see, we shall see.

[Maestro]

VOTE: Jake from State Farm for stepping in to the game merely to grab a paper without offering other useful content.
His two posts so far have offered no content and were clearly placed just so he could gain an unknown advantage over his fellow players.

Yes, many of us wanted the papers, but others of us have stayed with the game to contribute from the beginning and since the papers were nabbed.

He has not.



P-Edit @Robert: What does that matter?
Town doesn't worry about being in the spotlight.

[Maestro]

Hmmm...interesting...it seems I was most definitely successful in grabbing the paper.
@Jake: I'm asking the Mod a question, if I get the answer I want I will then ask you a question, then depending on your answer I will remove my vote.

P-Edit @pirate: Yup. Text games are much easier on everyone involved - no offense to Majiffy.
Think 1286 mollie, just remember 1286. Also this is fun right now. When it becomes not-fun most likely my activity will go down.

*shrug* I'm nothing if not honest.

[Maestro]

VOTE: JFSF

Did I really convince you that fast or are there other reasons?

[Maestro]

Hmmm...interesting...it seems I was most definitely successful in grabbing the paper.
@Jake: I'm asking the Mod a question, if I get the answer I want I will then ask you a question, then depending on your answer I will remove my vote.

P-Edit @pirate: Yup. Text games are much easier on everyone involved - no offense to Majiffy.
Think 1286 mollie, just remember 1286. Also this is fun right now. When it becomes not-fun most likely my activity will go down.

*shrug* I'm nothing if not honest.

are you saying 1286 was not fun? then maybe you should follow up with that in your full IC feedback to players disclosure!!!

you are looking scummy to me but I cannot tell if I am just getting all paranoid about you (again) or if you are actually scum.

I'm not so it's fine if you're paranoid. Some people are still under the delusion we're in RVs so *shrug*
I'm saying 1286 was fun but that it was more emotionally straining than this currently is and I kept forgetting about it...

[Maestro]

^ This guy is fun now, but I do hope he'll grow more serious when he needs to. E.g. now.

[Maestro]

^ That is silly. Everything I stated on Page 1 was RVS and was not meant to be taken seriously at all (except my desire for a paper, which has been fulfilled).
You continuing to take some off-hand comment about not making sense and blow it out of proportion to make me look Scummy is absurd.

[Maestro]

Come back to Jake. I want pressure so he doesn't worm his way out of answering the question I hope to ask.

[Maestro]

I'm responding what looks like an accusation of Scumminess. Nothing more. If you're not suspicious, say so. If you are, bloody say so. Don't beat around the bush with pointless posts discussing the "motive" I might've had for making Post X or Post Z on Day 1, Page 1. It's not helpful to the gamestate. That was/is my only point...


I do not feel I overreacted. I feel it may have been perceived as such.
I'm pushing forward for pressure on the other paper-holder, Jake from State Farm.

Hop on, the wagon's fine.

[Maestro]

Instead I got a headache.

My reaction to most of his posts. No offense, A.J.
Reads Newb-something, but not helpful, amIright Shamrock?

P-Edit @Joe: So far, we're barely out of RVS, but we've got an adequate reason for putting down some votes and getting some pressure Day 1, Page 2. What's your oh-so-good reason for witholding your vote and not doing much of anything so far? Formulate your own opinions on the game before asking other people theirs. It makes you look like you're trying to follow, which is Scummy.

[Maestro]

Holy crap...that wall of text...

[Maestro]

That last part is a very bad argument, IMO.
And bandwagoning is not bad. It's quite common.

[Maestro]

Not only is it not-bad and common, it's a natural (some might say "necessary") part of Mafia games, at least on this site.
Depending on what you mean by the term bandwagoning, that is...if you mean just blindly following a lynch?

That's called "sheeping", and yes Shamrock did that too, but he acknowledged his own "sheeping" and it is my opinion that his acknowledgment of the fact that we are on Page 3 and my reasoning seemed sound enough for a vote was good enough reasoning for him to follow me in putting pressure on Jake.

[Maestro]

Stuff

Is that really all you have to say?

1-SHOT NEIGHBORIZER WOULD BE SO HELPFUL RIGHT NOW.

Jake, will you tell me if you saw a symbol you couldn't read? Tell me that much.

[Maestro]

More anything would help a lot.
He's posted 17 words.

We're not allowed to quote it because it's Mod correspondence, etc. but I was trying to figure out if Jake's said the same type of thing that mine did and he's being a bullheaded nerfherder about it.

[Maestro]

Why are you refusing to answer Maestro's question?

This. Also Happy Scumday Shamrock!

[Maestro]

1. Because its none of his business, if he is scum it's better if he doesn't know the answer

2. Because I don't respond to bullies.

1. It's Town's business, and I'm asking to see if you're Town. If I'm Town, as I am, it's better if I do know that answer because then I can trust you. Right now, I don't. In fact, few of us do. You Scum, Jake?

2. How am I bullying you? I'm requesting answers and applying pressure to someone I think is as Scummy as you can get on Page 4.
If you think this is bullying you should probably not play Mafia, my friend.

[Maestro]

I'm requesting answers and applying pressure to someone I think is as

antiTown

as you can get on Page 4.

EBWODP, since there is a difference.
You're being exceedingly antiTown.

[Maestro]

I voted you before I asked you anything about the paper because you were refusing to contribute past rushing in to the thread at the perfect moment to actually grab the paper, which I found antiTown because you refused to contribute to discussion while serving an ulterior motive (e.g. "getting the paper") and are still doing so in actively not contributing to conversation when several of us have asked you to do so. What seemed like your tactical move to make a completely useless post just so you could grab the paper put me off, and since that point you haven't done anything to contribute to the Town or to help us understand why you're playing the way you are.

We're not asking for you to change the normal way you play (checking you for meta right now, by the way) but we

are

asking you to do shit in this game. You haven't so far. If you're saying you're not going to do shit this game and that that behavior is normal for you, I want you gone, yes. But I refuse to be labelled as a bully for wanting you gone if you're not going to do shit in this game when you should want to do shit in this game

AND

I refuse to be labelled as a bully when many people would say you're the one being stubborn, unhelpful, and petty - among other things.

Again I say that everything you've called bullying so far is a normal part of all Mafia games (e.g. applying pressure outside of RVS) so I think you should revisit how you play this game.

[Maestro]

Anybody need meta on Jake from State Farm?

Go check out Micro 33. One of his 2 or 3 currently completed games on-site, where he refuses to give his past alts (even though he admits being "on and off site for the past few years") and where he is just as unhelpful as he is being here. He flipped Scum. Also check out Disney Villains in the Theme Park, where he was Doctor Facilier (a Town Cop) and at least seemed like he was trying to contribute and Scumhunt - he makes similar comments about "having his own standards" etc. but I think I see a definite difference in play between the two situations. His stubbornness definitely does not seem to be a tell, but overall his unwillingness to contribute is.

Can you give us a good reason why you're refusing to contribute other than you don't have much to say?
At this point you're taking up the day and if you don't want to be lynched I suggest you tell us why so we can move on if we have to.

In the meantime where is my breakfast?
...and where is that lurker Breakfast?

[Maestro]

Again I say that everything you've called bullying so far is a normal part of all Mafia games (e.g. applying pressure outside of RVS) so I think you should revisit how you play this game.

[Maestro]

^ This is the kind of contribution I was looking, at minimum.
Just be clearer next time, rather than saying "stuff", Jake.

Jesus...

Also, you should give me your paper tonight if you're Town.
I'll give it back, I just want to know what it says.

P-Edit @AJ: I was going to say something about that.
@Joe: Contribute real content or don't gripe about the path the game takes.

[Maestro]

Because I have a paper and I was told I could give it to somebody during the Night.

[Maestro]

^ That was to Joe, and I find it very interesting that you're only now appearing while you were quick to wait out the little discussion we were having earlier.
Try to stay by the sidelines until we called you out, eh?

[Maestro]

All I see is two people whose paper's contents are not being revealed; that goes for both Jake AND Maestro; and Jake's recent activity's being explanations that are only natural because of being questioned apparently because of being more EXPLICIT about not revealing stuff than Maestro.

Also rephrase this, it's practically gobbledyguk.

[Maestro]

I'm not complaining so much about him not disclosing the paper's contents,
for a while I was against him because he was actively refusing to contribute.

When he FINALLY clarified that this was because he did not have any idea where to start contributing (lack or reads/investment/time, etc.), I accepted that answer.

IN FACT, your extreme defense of him is raising more eyebrows of mine than Jake himself even did.

Also, why NOT jump on somebody for doing something so blatantly antiTown early in the game? Nothing anybody did was going to get us out of RVS, Joe. It wasn't like we had much else to go on at the time - and don't come in here with "He said he did not get reads so far. Sounds genuine to me." and act all defensive when the obvious fact is that until the last page (IIRC) Jake had said nothing about "Oh, I don't really know what to contribute so I haven't been, blahblahblah". That looks like you blatantly turning later information against past actions, e.g. you're using later information to make it look like my past actions were wrongfull. This is circular/incorrect logic and it looks bad.

P-Edit @AJ: Good question AJ! Anybody else find it interesting that Joe only came in after Jake looked like he was being seriously pressured?

[Maestro]

No, I asked if his paper said anything about a weird symbol. There is no weird symbol on the papers, mine just references a weird symbol, which I cannot read. While I'm at it, why not tell y'all the rest. Maybe then Jake will trust me enough to contribute a little about what his says, since it won't be the other way around.

I will post a full reveal of my paper when I get home in a few minutes.
Till then, UNVOTE:

[Maestro]

Ok, sorry, couldn't get back to this briefly.
RL bullshit...don't really wanna deal with this right now, no offense.

But anyway. My paper said that maverick_alpha is something. The something is a weird symbol or a gibberish phrase that I cannot read. It is implied that I need to be of higher rank etc. to understand what the symbol is and therein ascertain what exactly maverick_alpha is. In addition to this "paper thing", I am assuming another mechanic which will come into play is promotions, within our "company", of course. I was also told that tonight (or I assume any other night) I could give my paper to somebody else, but that alternatively, if I died holding the paper, it would be lost forever.

So there. That's what it said. Pretty sure none of that is quoted; I shouldn't be Modkilled. If I am NKed at this point, lynch maverick_alpha within the next couple of days unless he does some damn good stuff for this Town.

But either way, for now: VOTE: maverick_alpha

[Maestro]

It's possible the papers were designated with player information before they were given out.
It's also possible that there's no reason to assume the first or last sentences of that post are in any true at all.

Like your quick response time after a vote...

Can you explain what might be meant by the paper?
Are you some kind of power role?

[Maestro]

It's also possible that there's no reason to assume the first or last sentences of that post are in any true at all.

FTFY if you couldn't tell...that's sarcasm.

There is indeed no reason to assume that any of your post is actually valid.
We have no idea how the papers information works.

[Maestro]

I can't imagine this one sheet of paper being able to claim Maverick is mafia. Let's be honest, if it meant he was mafia, it'd be way too easy for the town. If he is mafia, it probably would be revealed in many papers. My idea is that the papers were basically assigned to a random person to have an even chance of showing up with anyone, as to not make it unfair to any one person.

This is true, but it also could be for WIFOM's sake with Empking assuming we won't believe the information we're given...even if it isn't much information.
At this point though, I was in a bad place yesterday and I was basically reaction-testing. maverick looks Town after my vote, so UNVOTE: .

Not sure what it means yet, and not sure why you're setup speculating, m_a.

[Maestro]

m_a = maverick_alpha
bad place = RL shit I said made me not want to deal with Mafia

[Maestro]

@ maestro - why do you think maverick's reaction was pro-town? if anything his reaction was null.

If this makes any sense...the reaction being null is a Towntell to me. A very slight one, but enough of one to make me back off for now, especially when we wasted a lot of the day hashing out our own little argument. If his reaction had been overblown to either direction I would've taken a closer look at why, etc. but it wasn't. It just kindof came off as him just seeing a vote and taking in what it could mean, which, as I said, is a slight Towntell.

[Maestro]

Goody, an alt-slip. Brb, checking meta for NJ/Taz.

In the meantime, pirate, I don't really think your vote is justified given the level of explanation you gave.
@Shamrock/Jake: your votes are good. I want your thoughts: AJ/Robert Scumteam possible or no?

P-Edit @Shamrock: ^ Read above.
I think the whole team is definitely in [Robert2424, Aj The Epic, Breakfast,

one other person

]

[Maestro]

@Emp: I believe I unvoted again.

[Maestro]

Spoiler: Here it is.

I can't imagine this one sheet of paper being able to claim Maverick is mafia. Let's be honest, if it meant he was mafia, it'd be way too easy for the town. If he is mafia, it probably would be revealed in many papers. My idea is that the papers were basically assigned to a random person to have an even chance of showing up with anyone, as to not make it unfair to any one person.

This is true, but it also could be for WIFOM's sake with Empking assuming we won't believe the information we're given...even if it isn't much information.
At this point though, I was in a bad place yesterday and I was basically reaction-testing. maverick looks Town after my vote, so UNVOTE: .

Not sure what it means yet, and not sure why you're setup speculating, m_a.

[Maestro]

Maestro, you admit you can't read your paper, so why on earth would you want mine? This is the one thing I can't wrap my head around.

I wanted to know if you could read yours.

[Maestro]

I don't know if it would be different, but I wondered if you would be able to read yours.
What's wrong with wondering something when we have so little information already?

[Maestro]

Notifying the Mods of my ongoing games about an emergency V/LA until this Sunday, November 18th.
If this amount of time warrants force-replacement I completely understand and I apologize for the inconvenience.

I will also be posting this in-thread.
~Maestro

[Maestro]

P_M, my vote would've been a hammer for Breakfast. As can be seen, no one wanted a hammer. If you want me to place a vote on my 'second' most scummy, I'd probably have my vote on Nj, but that's not who I feel needs to be lynched.

Since, of course, we have space on the BW for Breakfast, I'll vote to keep it at L-1, but I was asked not to hammer, and thus I didn't.

VOTE: Breakfast

This is pretty good reasoning. Also, I'm back guys. Sorry about that absence.
I've read what's going on and not much of my opinion has changed.

mollie needs to post moar stuff though, I think I'm having a hard time reading her this game.

[Maestro]

maestro you can never read me.

This is quite true, actually. I'm not very good at reading many people...
Honestly, I think I'm a much better Scum player than Town but whatever. Irrelevant here.

[Maestro]

I know I can't get a wagon going on you today.

Fundamentally untrue. I'm still willing to gambit on the paper and lynch him, especially given his play today.

[Maestro]

^ Obvious quotefail is obvious.

[Maestro]

Why?

[Maestro]

@Jake/everybody on the wagon: Breakfast tomorrow.

VOTE: maverick_alpha

[Maestro]

- Not unless something happens to me (either I rise up in the world or I give the paper away). Do you expect that to happen?
- Explain why or we're sticking with one of these two.

[Maestro]

Ohohoho...Shamrock, that was good. That was

VERY

good.
I'll yield to giving up the paper, but I'll WIFOM it between a few choices. Fuck you Scum.

@Jake: Thoughts on Robert.

[Maestro]

Any other explanation for your vote, Joe?

[Maestro]

...and before I reappeared, Breakfast was the one you are all had a hankering to lynch.
The person currently on-wagon means nothing, Aj. Start a wagon if you tihnk somebody is Scummy, and make a good case if you want that person lynched.

Don't just say "I'm gonna not vote my top Scumread because I'm sad he won't be lynched even if I do".

You want it?
Make it happen, cap'n.

[Maestro]

Fair enough. Breakfast's little entrance up there was terrible either way.

I am hereby stating intent to hammer Breakfast

, especially since half of us will be V/La for days anyway.

[Maestro]

VOTE: Breakfast

[Maestro]

Goddamnit Jake. If he gave his paper to anyone, claim now.

[Maestro]

I think they're just bantering, Robert. mollie I can't read very well right now but I'm thinking null-lean-Town for the moment since her tone isn't like a recent Scum game where she was Scum...but that game had certain caveats that make it difficult to use for meta.

I'm currently trying to figure out if Tazaro is completely trolling or not, since his posts (including his recently ridiculous voting patterns) are looking almost...

too

Scummy to come from a Scum player. That and his relative experience (given his main account is based from 2010) would usually indicate that he's...(I hesitate to possibly offend)...a little more

competent

than his recent posts show.

I'm guessing since almost everybody has checked in, IIRC, nobody got a paper from Jake last night...?

Yes, mollie, I'm fishing. I admit it. You know why? Because I revealed who was on my paper and I'm not dead, which could be WIFOM. Either way, IMO, Scum probably killed Jake for one of three reasons:

1) They picked up on who he hinted would be on his paper, and they killed him because they don't want us to know who that person is for whatever reason - whereas I had already divulged who was on my paper, and the information was already public.
2) They didn't pick up on who he hinted would be on his paper, and they killed him because the uncertainty of knowing/not knowing who was on his paper seemed more dangerous to them - for whatever reason - then the public information of the name that is on my paper.
3) General WIFOM directed to cut off discussion about the papers that might linger on after yesterday, with the (antiTown, proScum) side effect of silencing one of the more discussion-provoking Townies from Day 1.

Don't know what any of this means yet, but so far most of Day 2 has been drivel, so I thought I'd post some general thoughts to get discussion flowing again.

[Maestro]

I don't know how intrinsically important they are, but they're part of the extra mechanic of this game which means they provide some aspect of gameplay that we might as well utilize in winning. Do you honestly think that is a bad idea? Just wondering here, gauging reaction to my previous statement.

@mollie: I kept my paper, thank you very much. Since the information is public and/or everybody disregarded it, I saw no point in giving it to any of you. I almost gave it to Jake but I'm glad I didn't.

[Maestro]

I kept it because no matter what, you all knew who the paper "pointed to". maverick_alpha's name is on the paper. I claimed this yesterday and it was subsequently ignored. Would it have done any good to give it to somebody else when from my PoV it's better in the hands of a confTown player? (e.g. me, again from my PoV)

[Maestro]

.....please don't make me yell at you to go read Day 1. Again.

[Maestro]

I believe I stated after seeing maverick's reaction Day 1 that I had no idea...but now that I think about it, given that he is still alive, he's probScum today.
At least in my eyes... VOTE: maverick_alpha

[Maestro]

No, I'm not Scum. I voted Breakfast because he (?) was lurking majorly and was an extremely viable lynch given Day 1, while my suspicions of maverick_alpha wavered at the end of the day because of (non)reaction to my calling out his nane being on my paper.

I am voting maverick_alpha again because his last post was almost a week ago, when he said he should be posting daily given increased internet/access. Before that, he had randomly appeared out of nowhere to post

AS SOON AS I VOTED HIM

, then disappeared while my vote moved off and my suspicions went elsewhere. Wondering if this will drag him out of the woodwork again, since he was kindof enough to leave me a little clue that he was online less than 4 days ago but decided not to post here.

LurkingScum is lurking.

Also, I didn't give up my paper because 1) that was the best WIFOM I could of, 2) the information was public, and as I've already stated it was better IMO to keep the information with somebody I knew to be confTown - mainly me, and 3) I found this post while doing my readthrough. I want everybody's thoughts on this, because it's now obvious to me that Scum killed Jake because of the name on his paper:

@Jake/everybody on the wagon: Breakfast tomorrow.

VOTE: maverick_alpha

If maverick flips scum than the other person on the paper tomorrow

@ shamrock - he called out AJ's fishing, which actually happened. That's pro-town IMO.

[Maestro]

Jake didn't have time/didn't want to tell us who that person was, and now he's dead. Why would he be dead unless Scum saw this and panicked, in some way, killing him to prevent a lynch on one or both Scum? This's the only thing makes sense to me, and while we don't know who else was on Jake's paper, we do know who is on mine. Lynch maverick_alpha please.

[Maestro]

@mollie: I already made a post saying how unsure I was about Tazaro. His time/experience would indicated he's not as incompetent as his posts here show, which is just me being honest, I'm not trying to insult. I don't have a good read on him.

@Shamrock: I don't know what assumptions to make about the papers, but I have reached a conclusion based on Jake's posting from yesterday and his death last night that it is very possible that the Scumteam is connected to the papers. In my mind the evidence is sufficient to prove that the null hypothesis "the papers have nothing to do with Scum" is false, since to me the evidence suggests that if the null hypothesis were true, the events we've witnessed so far would be unlikely. Conversely, the alternate hypothesis "the papers are connected to who is Scum" has not been disproven at all, since the evidence is not only possible but likely given that the null hypothesis is false and therefore supports the alternate hypothesis since the two events are the only outcomes of the hypothetical situation and are mutually exclusive.

If anybody here hasn't taken a statistics class or would like me to explain my reasoning in different terms, just ask.

[Maestro]

Hopefully this will help.

[Maestro]

Statistical reasoning is also fundamentally provable or unprovable, so you can tell my thought process is genuine/true and you should all sheep me on it.
Any thoughts at all besides defending past opinions of "who is Scum" which are only relatively relevant a Day later? Or are you scum, Tazaro?

[Maestro]

Yes, it should. mollie, I'm not voting Tazaro for now because "probScum/badTown I have no read on" is trumped by "probScum/sureScum who's lurking his ass off".

[Maestro]

He played quietly and without much important said yesterday, and now he's playing pretty hard for an M_A lynch.

This...is actually bullshit. Go read the thread, Aj, I had a huge argument with Jake, am one of the most prolific posters even considering the inactive time I suffered during a family emergency, and I briefly pushed for maverick_alpha yesterday as well. My wanting his lynch does not come out of the blue in any way, shape, or form. Also, I tihnk most of the thread would agree that those who're "playing it safe" most definitely does not include me. It includes you and mollie though, and maverick, who has once again reappeared from Lurkcity right after being voted. I changed my vote from maverick to Breakfast yesterday because it was the best choice, especially given you all still don't believe me when I say I'm positive his name being on the paper means something. Even Jake agreed with me! And now he's dead!

@Shamrock: Speaking of which, discounting the little amount of information we have (e.g. the nightkill) is terribad, IMO. Stop this foolishness.

@maverick_alpha: No, I was given no information Night 1 about my paper. Nothing has changed.

[Maestro]

@Shamrock

Who do you think is scum and why?

[Maestro]

Actually, everybody

EXCEPT

Tazaro can answer that question.

[Maestro]

Cool, so you think I'm Scum.

@Empking: am I allowed to send my paper to another player during the day?

[Maestro]

mollie, I love you, but post moar content plz.
Also, Empking said no - Night Action only.

[Maestro]

I don't think it looks terrible at all - and apparently Shamrock agrees that Jake was so likely to be killed that I should not have worried about being NKed. Either way, I'm not lying about the paper, and what would it matter if I gave it away? If I gave it to Scum they would either deny receiving it or deny maverick's name, especially if he is actually Scum - as I believe he is.

[Maestro]

Because (like I just said) I didn't have amazing reads on any of you and I was relatively confident that I would not be NKed.

[Maestro]

Don't single me out as the only one who thinks that. Ask Shamrock, he also apparently thought Jake was obvTown.
I found Jake to be very Town after the argument I got into with him - reactions, you could say. I'm sure Scum saw the same things we did.

[Maestro]

I am aware.

[Maestro]

Okay, so a few questions for Maestro.

1. Is there any other reason aside from lurking that made you want to vote for me?
2. Did the info on the paper get changed somehow? Maybe the images became readable?

1. Lurking + magically reappearing when you become at-risk + uncontributory play when not lurking and reappearing + understandably random suspicion that the names on the paper mean shit, a suspicion is only accentuated by the fact that everybody else thinks otherwise.
2. No, nothing has changed. I already said that. The only communication I have had with the Mod RE: my paper since I got it was today, when I asked if I could send it to somebody else during the Day and was told that I could not.

One of them had to die if they're both

scum

town

:/

Mind explaining this? I mean, the fact that you just admitted one HAD to die is really suspicious. This your own agenda?

Agreed, but he's been making little sense to being with.
I'm not willing to automatically chalk it up to a slip...

[Maestro]

Vote me if you think I'm the scummiest, mollie, but i'm just a Bureaucrat and I usually don't play this..."ostentatiously" as Scum.

Last words (heed them when I flip Town):

Standard stuff goes here. No reads in case of WIFOM.

Don't allow maverick_alpha or Robert2424 to coast through this game like they seem to be doing.
Try and get njoseph and Robert2424 to start being coherent and cohesive soon - if they're Town they're being a little ridiculous.

I will stand on this point until I am lynched: the names on the papers do not mean nothing. This is evidenced by the Nightkill, yes, but it's simple to think about the fact that Empking would not have put something in the game if it had no purpose. A special mechanic (even one this trivial, as some of you consider the papers to be) effects the interactions between players in a game, the psychological state of the game, and everything else about the game. It is not added lightly nor is it added without purpose. I seriously advise you all to look more closely at maverick_alpha and to look back at Day to see if you can figure out (as I could not) whose name was on Jake's paper before he died.

Maestro out...

[Maestro]

...I was under the impression you were practically claiming intent to hammer.

[Maestro]

But was one of the paper-gatherers scum?

No, we weren't.

Also, I'm not being dramatic. I'm dramatic for a living, not when I play Mafia. And if you haven't noticed, I'm Town.
I can't imagine you being dramatic Tazaro...I can't imagine you being anything other than obtuse and unhelpful.

[Maestro]

^ What the actual fuck. We're lynching this guy today, Shamrock.
I will hammer if his Scumbuddy doesn't bus him soon...

Also to Shamrock, my previous avatar had animation as well.

And it's Ramin Karimloo, the fucking Phantom of the Opera...you can deal with it.

[Maestro]

No, no, no. The correct response is that Town should never fucking self-vote ever, in any universe, at all.
He's Scum or he's terribad Town and either way he needs to be gone.

P-Edit: Wow...thanks.

[Maestro]

Doesn't matter. He self-voted.
I never said he self-hammered.

[Maestro]

Rule number 2: The objective is to NOT die.

Interesting...mine just says when the bad guys have been eliminated, or some such. [/inb4 avoiding Modkill]

njoseph is officially trolling, and I am not taking Shamrock's word on this. Give me links of this happening to this degree before, and I will blacklist Tazaro and his painful alt and be done with it. Otherwise, and possibly even then, I say we lynch him for our own sake.

@Aj: I've given my "last words", the only thing that I'd add is to ask why you think maverick_alpha's flip will in any way reveal what alignment I am. I can give the paper to somebody else, and when I do I imagine it will say the exact same thing it does now. They will draw their own conclusions from maverick_alpha's name being on the paper, as I've said, but also as I've said, I believe it means he might be Scum. Jake obviously did too. Now he's dead. I don't expect to be alive tomorrow at this point, but WIFOM etc.

[Maestro]

Jesus...alright fine. So he could be Town. Doesn't mean he is. Love the irony of the fact that Tazaro is linking it to us himself, while simultaneously seemingly accepting his own terrible play and consequently not doing a goddamned thing about it. Classy, dude, classy.

@Shamrock: I'm assuming it's the former and not the latter because the latter is more likely/accurate-until-proven-otherwise in most cases, and mainly because I doubt Empking would insert a special mechanic just to tell two people from the beginning that two people are Town.

@Aj: No, that's not correct. I have always felt, especially as Town, that the goal is to forward the Town's chances of winning. Sometimes that requires stepping down and allowing one's own lynch while giving good input before death so it's taken seriously post-flip; sometimes it means claiming early as a Town PR to get one or two Scum sure-fire lynched...conversely, as Scum, if I allow myself to be bussed when under light or heavy suspicion and my partner gains footing because of it (or vice versa WRT busser/bussee), I consider that beneficial to my win condition - which in neither case says anything surviving. (Unless, of course, you're a Survivor or a Jester or a Lover or a Serial Killer or something.)

P-Edit: No, I don't believe it. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around a player as terrible as you in this game...first time for everything though.
P-Edit: Cool, ok. Whatever. You are nothing to this game at this point.

[Maestro]

I did find it beneficial as scum though in this format but that was a self-hammer and I quoted shakespeare.

This is the accurate way of thinking, but as you yourself stipulate, it only applies to Scum.
[non-sequitur]

I remember that self-hammer: it was a fantastic self-hammer and you should feel fantastic.

[/non-sequitur]

[Maestro]

*sigh* I'm done with you Tazaro.
@Shamrock: avatar changed.

[Maestro]

No. Are you?

[Maestro]

What the actual fuck, Tazaro.

[Maestro]

Would you prefer that I replace out?

I hate to be a dick and say this...but if you're Town, I actually would prefer you replace out.
But many others seem to agree that you are trolling, so if you acknowledge as much and are willing to replace out because of it, why not stop trolling?

[Maestro]

If he's actually willing to replace out, I want that.
Just because it might allow us to get a better read on his slot and because this day is pretty shot if we don't.

[Maestro]

@Empking: Could we get a deadline reminder?

[Maestro]

Thank you.

...more than enough time for njoseph to replace out, if he's going to play like this.
Or he coudl self-vote, if he's actually Scum, but this is getting ridiculous either way.

[Maestro]

pondscum

Explain.

[Maestro]

aj is the other name on the paper. jake gave it to me.

The fuck didn't you claim this early on. Will no longer accept any other lynch but Aj or maverick_alpha.
Will check interactions from Day 1 but from what I remember they could easily be our Scumteam.

[Maestro]

I acknowledge that it's possible but I don't think it at all likely.
Did you even read my last words post?

Also, it's called tunneling.

[Maestro]

Oh God.

[Maestro]

Why?

Also, my "reaction", as you call it, to Nacho replacing in (which he hasn't really even done yet, IMO) was two words.
There's not much telling in me reacting to a player I've played with before like that.

[Maestro]

there is zero town motivation to hang on to it unless you can use it

Just because I can read between the lines here, what do you think is the Scum motivation for holding onto it?

[Maestro]

How am I fishing, mollie?

[Maestro]

Of course I am. I'd rather find that person, then give it to them so they can use it. I'd rather do that then give it to a random person who may be Scum who'll hold onto it after getting it. That leaves 0% chance of hitting somebody with whom it would be useful for Town.

[Maestro]

I already said that I agreed with what Shamrock said earlier: Jake was the obvious NK and I'm glad he gave his paper away.
You admitting that you have it semi-confs you, I'm glad for that as well.

[Maestro]

My almost non-existent reaction? Also, I find it interesting you've yet to comment on maverick's reappearance.

[Maestro]

Hah no, mollie, no no no...my argument with you in 1286 was me getting genuinely upset and/or "panicking". My "reaction" to Nacho replacing in was what it was.
It was a "reaction" based in fun and spawned from the fact that I know how Nacho plays and the foreknowledge that this game should be getting interesting because of that.

I've said why I did what I did, if you would've done differently and you think that's scummy, then vote me. If not? Shush please.
Was my course of action the best of ideas? Nope, sorry 'bout that. Was it the worst thing that's happened in this game so far? Not by a long-shot.

I must say though, you are absolutely terrible at reading me so far...I'm inclined to think you're Town because of that lack-of-being-able-to-read-me thing and because this looks like the almost antagonistic mollie I saw in 1286...no offense. Then again I can't really use Audio Mafia for meta so I can't be sure.

[Maestro]

Then again I can't really use Audio Mafia for meta so I can't be sure.

This just meaning that I have no viable Scum meta on you. You get zhe Townread from me. Now stop fighting, hon.

[Maestro]

Now stop fighting, hon.

...and go back to hunting Scum.

Also, Nacho...you gonna come say hi?

[Maestro]

my response to nacho was a cry of ecstasy

This.....is actually pretty much true.

Not sure what you mean about "leaving the newbie game to die without [my] help" ...but no: relative investment/interest in a game is obviously not a tell either way for me since I am Town this game (as I was in 1286) and you seem to think I'm more interested here.

you do not think like I do and that is not necessarily scummy.

There ya go then.

I've said why I did what I did, if you would've done differently and you think that's scummy, then vote me. If not? Shush please.

waiting for nacho to post did I not make this clear.

.....

Was my course of action the best of ideas? Nope, sorry 'bout that. Was it the worst thing that's happened in this game so far? Not by a long-shot.

lol

Why lol?

I must say though, you are absolutely terrible at reading me so far...I'm inclined to think you're Town because of that lack-of-being-able-to-read-me thing and because this looks like the almost antagonistic mollie I saw in 1286...no offense. Then again I can't really use Audio Mafia for meta so I can't be sure.

^nice hedge

^nice try
I believe I clarified in my next post.

P-Edit: Senior Bureaucrat, eh? Fantastic, nice to have you with us Nacho. Where's the other claim, I wonder...?

I obviously agree that Red Herring is unlikely, but I'm more inclined to say both papers point to Scum just because I believe they add more to the game then just "blank is Town" and "blank is Scum". If your idea about the Seniors being able to read them is correct, Empking would be more than justified in assuming that Town would be arguing over what the papers mean before they got to the Seniors who would actually be able to make sense of them. This would detract from anybody believing ANY information they could hold, and I think that would more than balances them both pointing to Scum. Either way, the argument and suspicion/disbelief concerning the papers' contents is, of course, exactly what has happened, so I'm keeping my long-standing line of thought for now.

mollie, can we stop fighting now and follow Nacho's idea? It's the best thing to come out of that slot by far.
I knew Nacho would be good for this game.

[Maestro]

I'd like to say that you haven't played much better than Njoseph.

I probably shouldn't be playing because of the shitty mood I'm in right now, but seriously Aj?!
The only response I have to this comment is to say fuck you. That's fucking bullshit and anybody in this fucking game could tell you that.

[Maestro]

What I see as unfortunate is the fact that Maestro, who in this situation, is probably our best lynch, selfishly hung onto the paper.

Why is that unfortunate for your case if you think I'm the best lynch, you twit?

And you unvote in the same fucking post?! Fence-sit all you want, you shit, but I've explained the logic behind why I kept the paper and why I didn't give it to (for example) you. I'm not defending myself any longer and I'm not rehashing or regretting a thing I've done in this game so far. And incidentally, I'd love to find out if even a single person here agrees that I've played as badly as njoseph.

On another note: grow a pair and vote for who you think is Scum (looks like that'd be me) or shut the fuck up and stop griping about the possibility of No Lynch - which is, coincidentally, not a good thing. As you yourself pointed out. Why point that out and then blast off a post like that where you basically

DO NOTHING BUT SIT THERE ON YOUR FENCE

?!

Because at this moment, you're bullshitting through the nose.

Finally: don't think I haven't forgotten your name is on the other paper. pirate mollie is confirmed, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm more than happy with lynching either you

OR

maverick today, and given Nacho's thinking (which I agree with most out of all of you) there's a damn good chance at least one of the names on the paper is Scum. If my math is correct (7-Town, 2-Scum; as is usual for a Micro), we're still allowed another mislynch. I don't give a flying fuck at this point if one of you is a mislynch, but I'm telling you that

I'M 100% POSITIVE THAT ONE OF YOU WILL NOT BE

.

Either provide a viable counter-argument or shut the fuck up. Preferably the latter.

[Maestro]

I'd like to apologize for the tone of my previous posts. That is not my normal behavior in-game and I feel I was unjustly rude towards you, Aj.
I apologize. I should have most definitely stayed away from posting while in that kind of mood.

[Maestro]

I'm really sorry, and I am in a better mood now...but Aj:

tl;dr

[Maestro]

Or rather... tl;dkhtrt ("too long; don't know how to respond to")
Mainly because that's a big steaming pile of IIoA.

[Maestro]

Hmmm...thread still unlocked. Taking the time to say that if I told you so...I told you all so. In that case Aj goes tomorrow, agreed?
Also taking the time to say that if I end up not having told you so...Aj goes tomorrow, agreed?

[Maestro]

Also WTF Shamrock.

[Maestro]

Thanks qwints for replacing me - sorry about that Empking, I had to sortof go on V/LA for this week and I thought my other games would be closer to over than they are right now... *smacks forehead* but as it is the "commitment issue" is kind of null for now. GG Aj/Robert!