Song Contest U-Pick - GAME OVER

[pieceofpecanpie]

Howdy folks.

I've always wanted to play a game with Porkens, just for the name. Is that starwars related?

VOTE: Porkens

(I think I'll just loop that folk song every time I jump in this thread to post)

[pieceofpecanpie]

You're doing a lot of finger-pointing Parama. It seems mostly based on the arbitrary premise of whoever combo-breaks your Queen lyrics is scum.

Do you have any serious thoughts on Garruk, or am I to take it that two stupid things (combo breaking and RVS self-vote) somehow add up to scumminess?

[pieceofpecanpie]

VOTE: pieceofpecanpie

Are you implying that Friend

Computer

Parama has misidentified this Commie Mutant Traitor, Commie Mutant Traitor?

Are you implying that he hasn't? Explain why please.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@T-Bone

I am scum because I am what I am sincerely señor pie.

@Parama

I'm not defending per se, just questioning how you can open with scum finger pointing so early. Your jump to conclusions also includes assuming that I'm reading Garruk as town. I'm happy to conclude that you have no actual reasons for Garruk's scumminess.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Really? People always start with the scum finger pointing early; it's actually a really basic tactic. Why do you have such an issue with this?

I don't "have such an issue" with it, I began by wondering where Parama was coming from. If anyone has an issue it's Parama's at people who don't immediately by his scum finger pointing.

[pieceofpecanpie]

*buy

[pieceofpecanpie]

Your #66 may be getting somewhere, Parama. I hope you like zebras though...

[pieceofpecanpie]

I’m not liking piece’s chainsaw on Garruk and then backpeddling.

Don't wander off into the land of overstatements now, I'm not backpeddling since I haven't peddled off anywhere to begin with. I didn't load up my picnic basket, pump my tires and oil my chain and take a journey off to Garruk-town meadow, down by the willow tree.

Just to clarify, what I liked about Parama's #66 was pointing out the inconsistencies within the hydra. This hadn't come up yet when Parama started his early suspicion, but it reads like a reasonably good catch. Garruk's worth watching, but it's still too early for my alignment radar.

Oh and for the record, Parama, when I linked you it was under the assumption that the thread was moving pretty fast and my message would get stuck a post or two below yours. When that didn't happen I didn't change the link to your post because, well, it's just a link...

[pieceofpecanpie]

As cute as this is does anyone want to discuss Generic getting flappy about claiming?

Is it a good idea? Useful/useless one?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Okay Mastin, I'll bite.

Post 116 has Porkens as scum, post 128 has him as town. What changed? Are you going to do this thing where a couple of reads stay town/scum and the rest interchange whenever you feel like it?

[pieceofpecanpie]

I beg to differ Desperado, I feel dirty after reading all that AtE from Generic in #152...

VOTE: Generic

...you really deserve a vote if you're going to get apathetic about town

possibly

failing in the future.

Poor excuses for not presenting reads alongside forced "towny talk" is not my cup of tea.

[pieceofpecanpie]

So I've said it in other games, but the method I like for finding scum is looking for the not-scum.

So, in playerlist order, people that are not-scum in my notes thus far are:

Parama

, currently a tentative town read. I'm not entirely convinced, at least not in the sense of some people who are nodding their heads to his posts and saying "yep, town, no doubt about it". I felt I needed to meta him a bit before I could get anywhere. Having done that I am currently reading his game as more on the townish side because, although there seems to be a pattern of early aggressiveness for both town and scum games which I read, he seems more focused on giving content in his town ones. Which is the vibe I'm getting here.

Desperado

, for his #148 pure and simple.

Porkens

, another town lean. Seems on the level, although I feel his reads have been off that's beside the point. I like how Desperado put it, that Porken's #87 feels way too comfortable to be put on. I feel that way about most of his posts, just took someone else to nail how I felt in words.

And uhhh, that's it... Too early for everyone else, or they haven't posted yet. Mastin and Generic are annoying.

pedit: notscience can also be dubbed as annoying.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I think the scum are inexperienced. The old hands are playing very confidently and loose. The newer players feel like they are seperate to rush, to prove something... A couple are feeling very forced too.

This is what I mean by annoying, that's just empty ego-stroking fluff.

I deduce from this that you're calling yourself an "old hand", therefore you feel confident and loose (and not pressured to give a shit about the game just yet?). However, newer players are [desperately] trying to prove themselves worthy or some shit...

How does this all translate to alignment exactly? You're saying these characteristics are both attributable to experience -

"old hands" "newer players"

-

and

alignment -

"I think the scum are inexperienced"

- but you don't qualify this in any way? Well, I want you to qualify it. Should be easy enough for you to use that logic and clearly put some names into the ring. Is Parama a "newer player" for example, does his early game seem "desperate to rush, to prove something..."? Does this make him an inexperienced scum? Who are the inexperienced scum in your opinion?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Generic

Answer the questions please.

By the by, I realise

you

would believe you're doing something wonderful like "drawing the focus". I believe you're playing a self-centered game.

[pieceofpecanpie]

If it doesn't answer your question pie please ask again.

Nope, not really. Broken it down here into the three key things I'd like you to think about and address.

1.

How does this all translate to alignment exactly? You're saying these characteristics are both attributable to experience -

"old hands" "newer players"

-

and

alignment -

"I think the scum are inexperienced"

- but you don't qualify this in any way? Well, I want you to qualify it.

2.

Should be easy enough for you to use that logic and clearly put some names into the ring. Is Parama a "newer player" for example, does his early game seem "desperate to rush, to prove something..."? Does this make him an inexperienced scum?

3.

Who are the inexperienced scum in your opinion?

notscience, T-Bone are "inexperienced" scum? Anyone else?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Well since you haven't actually asked any questions I fail to see why it would cause confusion in that context...

However, people can call me any variation on "PoPP" or "Susan" (if it makes you happy) and I'll refer to yourself as iPie.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Jesus.

UNVOTE: Generic

I cannot handle the emotion right now. It's pinging VI, but I'm keeping Mr Sad-Britches on the watchlist all the same.

TBone's interaction sounds fake.

I agree? Actually, I don't know. I liked the idea of him seeming opportunistic on Generic more than sounding fake. I'm interested by this all the same. More to say on the matter Garruk?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Continuing with my not-scum list of Parama, Desperado and Porkens I'll also add:

Agent Minnesota

, post 36, post 45, post 209, post 214, post 221 all seem like level-headed observations. Reading pretty genuine, especially in 209, 214, 221, where a good exchange between PranaDevil shows someone capable of cutting the content from the cream.

However, I'm adding a tentative notch to my already tentative town read on Parama. After that aggressive start the silence that has followed cuts a heavy contrast, so I hope I haven't jumped the gun on that one. For the sake of progressing my Day 1 a bit I'll keep him PoE'd for now.

A couple of further observations:

• PranaDevil is pinging a bit. Minnesota's post 209 does an excellent job of calling out some issues with Prana's angle on Generic. Coming back to what Garruk said -
  "T-Bone's interaction sounds fake"
  - I am more affirmed in the idea that it was opportunistic, as when placed side by side with Prana's interaction it's
  Prana
  who comes off sounding the more fake of the two.

On that note:

Generic

, PoE'd for now. Don't want to pursue this guy for today, he's come off with less scum-intent than some of the people on his case. And feel free to interpret my interactions with Generic as scum-intent as long as you still agree that his play thus far has been terrible and shouldn't be condoned.

• InflatablePie is pretty clammed up so far, and he's not the only one who's said little. He's also amongst a handful of folks who make short and, mostly, unsubstantiated claims. 50 Shades of Purple and their post 224 is another prime example.
  DO NOT LIKE

[pieceofpecanpie]

Feel free to actually explain what you mean and show why you feel that. Or to reword that, I'm expecting you to explain what you mean and show why you feel that.

I did, I freely explained that I agreed with Minnesota's #209, which interprets how your interaction with Generic went (he elaborates more in 214, 221). I went further to suggest it felt faked, which is why it/you pinged me.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@50 Shades

So you're going to explain

why

you're voting Pasch, right?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@50 Shades

So you're going to explain

why

you're voting Pasch, right?

@50 Shades

So you're going to explain

why

you're voting Porkens, right?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@T-Bone

I'm getting déjà vu. I've definitely got a problem with 50 Shade's unsubstantiated claims/votes although this time, unlike with Generic, you've beaten me to a vote. Do you always play like this? I mean, I can't tell how serious you're being (re: the "in 10 words or less" start, the (opportunistic?) Generic vote and now an (opportunistic?) 50 Shades vote).

I'm going to give you a good meta all the same, but in the mean time maybe you could indicate whether this is a standard playstyle of yours. Because I'm getting chills, and they're multiplying.

@Garruk

As per my post 202, I still want to hear about your thoughts on T-Bone.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Serious like a fox?

I guess what I'm getting at is that it feels like you jumping at opportunities to get some wagons rolling, which seems to skip any suspicious phase on players and doesn't reveal much of your thought process. It's a bit more of a "Hey I don't like what you did there", followed shortly by a vote.

I'm not sure how player related that is, hence the meta, which I'll get to soon. Also, not scummy per se, but I'm noticing it all the same.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Righto, so where does Porkens fit into this picture?

That #88 of Pasch's hints at an associative tell for you to use as justification, but that wouldn't explain you switching.

[pieceofpecanpie]

You're doing a lot of finger-pointing Parama. It seems mostly based on the arbitrary premise of whoever combo-breaks your Queen lyrics is scum.Do you have any serious thoughts on Garruk, or am I to take it that two stupid things (combo breaking and RVS self-vote) somehow add up to scumminess?

This is during the RVS phase, why does he need to have a reason to vote for anyone at this point? Why are you so interested in his reasoning to vote someone at that point? Especially when it wasn’t you. You defend your post in #41 saying that you just question his ability to make a read at that point and that it is assuming that you have a town read on him. If you don’t have a town read on him then why are you defending him?

I

wasn't

defending Garruk! Defending Garruk would sound something like

"Parama you're wrong about Garruk. He isn't scum, he's town"

. It's okay though, Parama couldn't make this distinction either. Although I did leave it right in front of your face...

@Parama

I'm not defending per se, just questioning how you can open with scum finger pointing so early. Your jump to conclusions also includes assuming that I'm reading Garruk as town. I'm happy to conclude that you have no actual reasons for Garruk's scumminess.

So initially I gave Garruk a chance to respond and then wanted to ask some questions to find out what Parama was up to. I don't see anything wrong with that, do you?

Also, you mention that this was during RVS phase so reasons aren't necessary. Well wasn't my #21 going something along the lines of "Parama you seem to be serious about Garruk's scumminess, but this is RVS so what gives? Do you have genuine reasons". So aren't you in effect agreeing with me?

Parama- I like your #27 a lot, I hope to see more of that in my read through.

Why do you like this post when it's got Parama taking RVS time super serial stamped all over it? Did you not say that RVS doesn't require reasons and doesn't this look like Parama getting all analytical over shit said during RVS?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Formerfish

By the by, I agree with around 95% of the rest of your observations in #282. Not trying to butter you up, it's solid and that's that. I'm keen to see how the reads (and vote?) turns out.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Mod

50 Shades is voting Porkens.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Pecan is not coming off well; see overexplanation, defensive attitude et al.

Yes, hello. We played together before? I don't think we have, and judging by that comment I'd say it's most certain.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@MoS (sort of)

Not everyone does that turkey thing, pilgrim... In Australia, for example, we eat kangaroo instead.

Kidding, we don't have any form of thanksgiving, we don't even say thanks, but replace it with phrases like "she'll be apples, mate, hooroo I'm off to strangle a wallaroo with a dingo in his pouch". I wasn't kidding about the kangaroo bit though.

I do agree things are pretty stagnant, but V/LA is there for a reason. Just a matter of people using it.

So do you believe there's anything to not mentioning V/LA and not currently posting? What I mean is, are you scumreading anyone based on activity levels?

[pieceofpecanpie]

holy hell there's not even a wagon on him right now? am I missing something? need to read more...

Have you read all of Generic yet? Are you ISO'ing or just reading through the thread? Hard to know if you're missing something without knowing where you're at, but I can relate to the missing feeling.

[pieceofpecanpie]

this is where I'd fake a daykill if I didn't actually have a daykill.
but I do.
any last words?

[pieceofpecanpie]

After #354 Porkens is solidified in my not-scum list, even though he's dead-wrong about me.

[pieceofpecanpie]

VOTE: Maenara

I'm happy to stick my vote here. I haven't thought much of the Pasch wagon, and I feel there's at least two on it requiring more scrutiny. One of those being Maenara.

The way she sheeped onto the Pasch wagon in post 215 felt like it was done for convenience and made the added justification seem insincere. I also didn't dig the last line in post 319, why put out opinions on players and then finish with

"To summarize, my reads aren't worth the paper they ain't written on yet [...]

"? That's just fluff-posting that was dressed up to look useful.

[pieceofpecanpie]

"We", as in you're a [unclaimed] hydra or are you speaking on behalf of all inexperienced folk?

[pieceofpecanpie]

He? She? Desp? Fish?

One fish, two fish...?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@evilpacman

Dunno, how you could call me opportunistic. Have I jumped onto someone for flimsy reasons or something?

But please continue saying I look bad, parrot Mastin all you want. It's like a person describing an apple as bad to someone else, but they don't elaborate whether it's a rotten apple or they just plain don't like fruit. Until you can provide any sort of reasons as to how I'm rotten I'll just figure that it's irrational mudslingy hogwash.

Stop being a nong and vote Maenara.

[pieceofpecanpie]

VOTE: Maenara

I'm happy to stick my vote here. I haven't thought much of the Pasch wagon, and I feel there's at least two on it requiring more scrutiny. One of those being Maenara.

The way she sheeped onto the Pasch wagon in post 215 felt like it was done for convenience and made the added justification seem insincere. I also didn't dig the last line in post 319, why put out opinions on players and then finish with

"To summarize, my reads aren't worth the paper they ain't written on yet [...]

"? That's just fluff-posting that was dressed up to look useful.

this one was what prompted the opportunism call. Typical scum jump, wagon is getting off the ground, vote that person without any prior read of them, citing that one reason in that one post and labeling it as that one buzz word. It's textbook, really. This is very circumstantial but for the most part I like to see a progression towards a vote - especially when it's an establishing wagon - instead of just a straight vote. That's a scum move. You have no progression, I saw you ask Maenara some questions but there was no follow-up and you didn't indicate that that bothered you or shaped your read in any way nor make any attempt to follow up. So yeah.

Nice reach, but fail...

I provided

two

reasons, as you can see I commented on Maenara's #215 and #319,

three

reasons if you count me not liking the Pasch wagon and wanting to scrutinise players on it.

That's two or three reasons more than you've given for reading scum in my posts. Instead you've just parroted someone else and shown no working to your reads.

I don't believe it's always necessary to provide post by post commentary of everyone or establish a gradual buildup towards voting them. I think it's perfectly reasonable to not like posts by a player and not immediately declare it in thread, or to find that one of their posts tips the balance on your reads, just like it's reasonable to change an opinion on a player as the game goes on. Having said that, instead of hollow accusations you could always ask more elaborate questions on why I'm voting her. You could completely disagree with what I'm saying and think it's complete scum-talk. Or perhaps at some point you'll see reason and give Maenara's wagon a shot a la

"Maenara could be scum. Compare her bad AtE with Generic's town AtE"

.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Not wanting to sound snarky, but can off-topic discussion stay out of the thread?

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'm not from the US, I don't have thanksgiving.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'm glad you saw the irony... thanks

[pieceofpecanpie]

Not wanting to sound snarky, but can off-topic discussion stay out of the thread?

Seriously guys, there is so much content to wade through today reading the 4 off topic posts are really putting me behind. Jesus!

Don't go bringing religion into it as well.

[pieceofpecanpie]

You could reply to my #420 if you're that bored. Didn't you see it, or just ignoring?

[pieceofpecanpie]

In my opinion you're the opportunistic one trying to sling mud on me, probably because a couple of players have suggested I look scummy it must be easy for you to do too, right?.

Your response here reads quite a bit differently to post 417. Based on the rubbish you're pulling out then it must be easy to accuse anyone of basically anything. First I'm voting someone opportunistically without any flow or real reason to (well you counted one), now I'm voting them with dressed up reasons (now you count three) to make it look good.

Basically if I vote someone with minimal reasoning I'm scummy, if I vote someone with reasons then I'm just making up fake reasons and scummy. Good one.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Yeah and I'm just agreeing to disagree here [...]

Noted.

[...] I'm definitely watching.

Likewise.

I'm not that excited about Minnesota or Generic as a wagon, since I've PoE'd them both for today. Can't see myself coming full circle on Minnesota, but I'll re-read Generic once more since after my post 226 his post 244 really irked me. The other person I need to look into (re: post 372) is Prana, who was the unnamed second person from the Pasch wagon. This'll have to come a bit later as I've just left myself feeling slightly out of touch after a busy weekend, so I'll take a bit of thinking time.

What I read from Maenara in her post 477 was really good, even though I don't agree with the Pasch read, the train of thought is solid and only reason my lynch interests are quite different is due to the nature of the Pasch-wagon, not any inherent read I have on Pasch right now. For now I'll...

UNVOTE: Maenara

...although she is definitely on my watch list. I'm skeptical that a person who is obviously articulate enough and can provide reasonably eloquent and insightful posts would start in such a cautious way. It's amazing how much better the latest post reads, yet the only real difference between it and her post 319 is she isn't ending it with a derp-clause that discredits all the contained reads.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'm not feeling the Generic wagon. From the re-read I'm still happy to have him PoE'd.

[pieceofpecanpie]

VOTE: Pasch

[pieceofpecanpie]

The deadline is in a little over 2 days, , so time to consolidate my reads as best I can.

My Pasch vote was left unjustified, so just to clarify it's more a convenience vote to see a lynch happen than one I feel any particular strong conviction for. I'm not particularly impressed by my Pasch vote, but unless someone wants to slap me around the face with a fantastic lynch option within approximately 48hours then it'll have to do.

My final not-scum list for the Day, in playerlist order:

• Parama
  , his flaking hasn't helped town in any sense, but I don't regard it as alignment related since his meta seems based around keeping aggressively active as both town
  and
  scum. I've PoE'd him and tentatively called him town based on this meta-read, but he really needs to pull his finger out. That day-vig business was suspiciously attention-seeking while accomplishing little, so consider him one to watch.
  
  
• 50 Shades
  , a bit hard to explain my town read here. Initially their style stuck in my craw a bit, but now I get the feeling that they're coming from a good place, pushing some votes and reads about, trying to work a bit of excitement and energy into potential wagons etc. Feels genuine, not scum.
  
  
• Desperado
  , originally town-read for his #148, since then has just continued to look plain town. My most comfortable member in the not-scum pile. Elaboration on request, but is anyone seriously scum-reading this guy?
  
  
• Porkens
  , hesitating on this guy. Initial easy-going posts have given way to what feels a bit of a "forced?" style of play/reads, post 528 in particular imo. Needs more looking into Day 2, but I don't want to backpedal out of my not-scum read just yet.
  
  
• Generic
  , pretty fractured style of play, the less said from me the better imo as he's had too much of the spotlight as is. Still happy to have him PoE'd, elaboration on request.

Someone I'm removing from my not-scum list is

Agent Minnesota

because of their suss post 554, which was rightfully called out by Desperado in post 574. On the watch list.

A couple of people who I wanted to mention:

• M45t1n
  , annoying as hell and these unsubstantiated reads are starting to reek. I honestly don't have the energy to pull more from this guy right now, but I'll try to summon something Day 2. Pointing out a post and calling it town/scum-posting is completely meaningless, more so when that opinion has shifted on several players for practically no discernible reason. Needs to be held to account pronto.
  
  
• Maenara
  , the issues outlined by myself in post 372 and post 509 are still relevant to this slot. I'm very keen to see who replaces in and what they get up to.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Oh, I didn't get to that point in the recent games of his I meta'd.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Oh, I didn't get to that point in the recent games of his I meta'd.

Did you at least see a bit of sporadic behavior?

Well yes, in the form of aggressive and/or loud posting. Didn't see lurking, I was just checking the tone he opened games with to see if there was anything noticeable between town and scum (it was early Day in this game).

[pieceofpecanpie]

Why the deflection Generic? You're perfectly aware that you made a number of posts of a "woe is me I'm playing terrible this game" nature, which then got followed up by the "but as scum I'm a totally awesome player, gyped out of awards you guize. ie. not-scum this game" style of post 244.

This is all nice and WIFOMy, but why bring it up in the first place? To me it felt like you were dangling some mislynch bait for scum, hence someone like Spyrex - who I haven't had a firm read on yet - to come along and makes an opportunistic push for you using said contradictions as some sort of clear confirmation of your scumminess I don't expect to see a blasé deflection. I predicted a "caught you scum! trapped in my web, my devious mislynch bait for the opportunistic scum that you are *votes*" or something along those lines.

Your response is not only underwhelming, it just gives an attention-seeking slant on your previous posts. What was the point of them?

Generic could be scum after all.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Generic, have you actively been trying to scum hunt? If so where, in your opinion, are the best examples?

[pieceofpecanpie]

You've collected two whole votes, I'm not even voting you.

And yet as one of the most vocal components of this game I'm trying to ascertain what that means, especially when you talk about playing scum so often, I'd like to know whether this is your scum game. I'm addressing you the player with an alignment, rather than you personally. It's hard to ascertain whether you're trying for some cunning manipulator nominations or just reacting badly to a bit of attention, but you certainly seem to be making posts that would attract it.

I don't know what to make of your reactions really. I feel that Spyrex's case could've been scummier if you'd reacted differently, but I can't read the townplay in your response despite instinctively reading you as town beforehand, so I'm pretty null on Spyrex's #613. It could just be a townie looking for a good lynch option for today, and I don't think his points are terrible.

[pieceofpecanpie]

EBWOP

My post was directed at Generic.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Recent scumplay by Generic:

1.

Keeps pretty mum about whether or not I could be scum in our recent interactions, then immediately after Mastin's vote on me in post 639 and notscience's agreeing sentiments in #640 he suggests it for the first time.

Under that assumption pasch is either a bad mafia player openly helping his teammate with that opportunistic shitty vote or he is the deluded townie...

I think spyrex is the deluded townie and POPP is trying to not look obvious joining pasch on the wagon...

It will all come put in the wash as my dear departed mum used to say.

It feels like he's just chiming in to Mastin's tune, since if that sentiment was more grounded it surely would've come out during our direct interaction moments before. At least if I was a townie under attack/being questioned by someone I considered was scummy I'd damn well tell them. The backdoor sentiment reeks.

2.

I initially questioned Generic over his reponse to Spyrex's post 613, here's a key reason why he wasn't more aggressive with the counter:

And can I just point out the laughable comment from both POPP and spyrex where both accuse me of being scum for not calling spyrex scum for her attack... That's OMGUS do why would I do that?

Then along came a MoS who votes Generic in post 642. The response:

You may also notice win carefully choosing to vote me for not being pro town rather than not being town aligned... Me thinks someone knows my alignment already.
Can your wagon grow enough though? Let's see:

unvote,
Vote MOS

Is that an OMGUS vote?

Generic is changing his tune a plenty, #656 looks like flailing, I'm thinking we're onto a good lynch here.

UNVOTE: Pasch

VOTE: Generic

[pieceofpecanpie]

It's not like there's been a bullshit wagon on him all game.

You're right, that has indeed

not

been the case.

What's the deal anway, are you one of those people who just drop a lot of irritating "bad idea guys, don't kill them they're town"-style posts, so in the event of a mislynch you collect your townie credits and wait for the next wagon to make disparaging remarks about?

If you're so unimpressed by the situation why don't you give us your brilliant lynch suggestions?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Tomorrow we're going to hash out a reads list and then we want to sit down with our town reads and PoE some shit.

Indeed, those thoughts were messy and contradict themselves in several spots.

So this absent-minded taunting by Generic has left essentially all his posts today mostly bereft of reads or scumhunting. I'm flicking through some of his town meta and seeing more reads than here. That's not solid evidence, but on the basis of his play in this game alone can we kill this with fire yet?

[pieceofpecanpie]

If

you flip town, I'll take my comeuppance.

[pieceofpecanpie]

No other townie has the benefit of seeing your role PM, so this bleeding hearts nonsense to appeal to peoples sensibilities means little.

I don't think your play is pro town, ergo there's a good chance you aren't town. So what isn't sensible about wanting you lynched?

As for these "opinions" you have offered, they've flip-flopped terribly. For example, you calling me scum only came after Mastin voted me a couple of pages back and notscience seemed to concur and

not

during our interaction beforehand. That's not passing an opinion on me, that looks like a suss bit of mudslinging when the opportunity arises. The cavalier notion that you're happy to be mislynched early because it'll be blood on towns hands and none of your doing also strikes me as a particularly anti-town sentiment.

None of this adds up to me seeing a mislynch, or gunning for one.

[pieceofpecanpie]

What do you mean, Generic? I go out and gather my own reads.

Considering I have passed opinion on at least half a dozen people in this game I guarantee there are at least three people in this game who have done less.

You will find there will be players in this game desperate for me to be lynched because they firmly believe killing someone they suspect is town but don't like the attitude of is a preference to lynching a potential scum player who appears to be contributing.

How many reads has t-bone given you pieman?

Is there a point to these deflections?

Are these people who have done less scummy? Which players are lynching you on your attitude despite believing you're town? Who is this potential scum player? What does T-Bone have to do with anything? Why him?

[pieceofpecanpie]

You've fallen out of my not-scum pile, I've commented on various points of your gameplay I consider anti-town, and out of the players I haven't PoE'd I consider you a preferential lynch.

As I said earlier:

I'm addressing you the player with an alignment, rather than you personally.

This has got nothing to do with personality, I'm playing the game.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Urghhh Generic, again with your apathetic AtE... For all I know half the flaking players are scum, or all of them for that matter, but you're painting a big red target on your face and I'll be damned if that anti-town play gets you a scum win. I'd do a lot better tomorrow after seeing your flip.

[pieceofpecanpie]

That's fine, I just want to see what'll come from it.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Holy shit... 5 pages of quote spamming and single line thoughts from 50 Shades and morph. Any chance you could like collect multiple thoughts into the one post and just link/edit quotes instead of keeping massive quote walls? Jesus...

[pieceofpecanpie]

@notscience's #889

I lol'd.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Well we

could

vote Hiraki, I have no qualms on voting a slot that hasn't done much, but I can also use that observation as a suggestion for why we

shouldn't

be voting it.

Or we could also see how scummy post 929 is and kill it with fire.

I'm currently re-reading through a few of the more in depth posts here to get a better understanding of what's gone down in the last few pages.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Explain to me, why is Generic town?

[pieceofpecanpie]

First point of Generic's (#1002) that I somewhat agree with in quite a while. Although possibly just paraphrasing previous sentiments (Spyrex and MoS?), the way Hiraki put that did sound awkward.

Well we

could

vote Hiraki, I have no qualms on voting a slot that hasn't done much, but I can also use that observation as a suggestion for why we

shouldn't

be voting it.

Or we could also see how scummy post 929 is and kill it with fire.

I'm currently re-reading through a few of the more in depth posts here to get a better understanding of what's gone down in the last few pages.

what was scummy about that post?

I just don't think the obvious sheep-vote to be in line with the "town bloc" gelled with all of Generic's previous lone-townie "screw you guys" sentiments.

[pieceofpecanpie]

For the sake of a deadline lynch I'm willing to vote Hiraki, but the wagon's putting a bad taste in my mouth all the same. As a Generic counter-wagon would.

[pieceofpecanpie]

A little bit of time to mull things over is always nice.

@Morph

Could you clarify what those "*" next to various names are for? Furthermore, why are you townreading Parama? I've struggled with that slot a bit myself.

While we're musing over games of mine, I'm not proud of my efforts in Paradox Prime, I really wanted to get on board that one so /in'd as a replacement. Unfortunately that meant I couldn't decided when I'd be a part of it and had a bit too much on my plate initially, so playing catch up, being awed into silence by the crazy mechanics/flavour and lacking confidence (especially around louder, more assertive players) all played its part.

Rage was practically over before it started for me, the mass number of replacements (myself being one of them) meant I really wanted to slow roll my reads a bit, but ended up digging myself a hole instead. As town I probably do tend to play passive with reads and pushing lynches quite a bit, but I try to improve on each game.

All my other games are in my wiki.

@Pasch

[...] do you understand that bantering is part of how people

obtain

their reads?

This. Definitely this.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@MoS

I'm uh, well, this thing of yours, this schtick. It's taken a backseat to Mastin's thing for a while, because I find that more irritating, but is this a thing you regularly do? I tried to glance through some of your games, but you post in a lot of non-game related threads, so my eyes kind of glazed over and as I'm still at work I don't have more time to dedicate on the matter.

@morph

I just remembered a key thing that sold Regfan (in his hydra) to push my lynch was my previous town meta seemed to contain a lot of games where I'd get heavily sarcastic, belligerent etc. when getting pressured, which I didn't do in Rage (ironic really). It was a good catch, but it was obviously inaccurate since I flipped VT and also why I'm not too keen of cementing alignments through meta reads.

On that note, I don't like Generic being so heavily town read based on his "obvious" town meta.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Pasch

[...] do you understand that bantering is part of how people

obtain

their reads?

This. Definitely this.

It's also how you obscure any legitimate ideas with fluff and nonsense. This game long since crossed the line from useful discussion to babbling.

That, quite frankly, is a bunch of hogwash.

Interesting aside, literally none of my questions this game have been answered. When I press people for reasons, they just brush me off. And then they wonder why I'm less engaged as this game goes on.

Then you doubly press those scummy ignoramuses for avoiding your questions. Are there notable examples of this occurring? Who's been brushing you off?

For example, even though I'm scumreading Generic I'm not just reading through the thread, concluding Generic is scummy and that's all she wrote. I'm pressing Generic to give answers and, like it or not, it's in Generic's interests - whether scum or town - to respond in some fashion. This sort of exchange benefits everyone, as anyone can now come along and be like "hang on I think you're wrong on that one" or "I agree they're sounding pretty suss" etc. etc. And it helps gauge the accuracy of my read.

Currently all you're giving me with responses like that is a horrible ambivalence towards your wagon and your own alignment. I felt, and mentioned earlier today, that your wagon was bad and I was considering at least two players who had hopped onto it as suspicious. However, it's hard to stay in that frame of mind when I'm tossing up whether to think of you as lynchbait or scummy. Attempting to engage more would only work in your favour.

[pieceofpecanpie]

So this might sound like a dumb question from a dummie who dummily (that's totally a word ) fell behind, but...honestly, why is Hiraki still alive? He looks like scum. He had a wagon on him. Why hasn't it gone through, yet?

Can you think of any

serious

reasons why it hasn't?

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'm not sure why the wagon on Hiraki is stalling, or why we are looking into lynching EPM, but if we aren't going through with Hiraki then right now I'd be ok with Micc.

Why are you okay with Micc?

In your post 993 you almost seemed to have a clear scumread on him over Hiraki and then just voted Hiraki anyway. Now you're (lamenting?) a slow Hiraki wagon - as if to suggest a surer scumread on him - and jumping back to Micc... Are you saying one thing and doing the other? Or am I misinterpreting something here?

Also, why do you think the Hiraki wagon might be stalling?

First Mastin, now Formerfish. Are you all hinting at the possibility that Hiraki is scum and scum aren't bussing him hard enough? Is town bloc on Hiraki and scum bloc on Generic (despite Hiraki being a counter wagon)? Are there too many scum on Hiraki, not enough, not enough townies, what? I want to hear what you're so stuck on... Is it that Hiraki looked scummy and now his wagon looks scummy too?

I could go on, but I just don't like this visual image I'm getting of people acting like a school of townie goldfish on the Hiraki wagon and then breaking the waters surface with mouth agape and very little sound coming out. Oh "blub blub" you say? Well that's not exactly insightful.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I still think there is a good chance that hiraki might flip scum

I dunno.

(emphasis mine)

This wagon stinks.

My interest in it has probably piqued at the right time though, as there are folks on it who need looking into. So I suppose there's little choice but to get this flip out for today. I most likely won't be on until after the deadline, so if ever there was time to get a bit claim-y, Hiraki, now would be it.

VOTE: Hiraki

L-1

[pieceofpecanpie]

Why does it stink and who do you think need looking into?

post 1136 and post 1140 of mine are relevant.

So Mastin and Formerfish caught my eye for a start. And Generic, always Generic.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Why you no claim Hiraki? You're L-1.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I don't buy what 50 Shades did there, Hiraki. Unless I missed them confirming themselves as a double voter anywhere?

50 Shades playstyle thing (lots of vote changes, weird comments/baits? etc.) needs more looking into. It would be crazy if they're getting away with this as scum.

People are BS tunneling Generic and he was the leading wagon regardless of being obvtown

Obvtown? Please...

[pieceofpecanpie]

Yes, yes, very subtle fake-Mastin.

Hmmm...what to do about this game...

That reply bugs me, it doesn't even voice your thoughts on the flip/no-NK. However, you could vote Generic and not make scumposts.

VOTE: Generic

[pieceofpecanpie]

[pieceofpecanpie]

If I may interject, I don't know what you were playing at over those last series of post Majiffy, but 50 Shades has a point.

You seem a bit slippery with this charisma you're oozing into a town-alignment-tell. Any thoughts on the Hiraki lynch?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Oh Jif, I may call you "Jif" from now on - like the cleaning product - not because you clean up dirty scum, but because you wipe away facts that inconvenience you. Sure I used a .gif in post 1228 as padding between your two-way conversation with 50 Shades and also as commentary on your theatrics (rolefishing, results claims, wtf?). But you'll also note post 1233 began with

"If I may interject..."

so bunk to your...

Opting out of discussion [...]

As with my next post I was clearly trying to opt

in

.

Oh but you conveniently wipe away that fact and accuse me of soft-pushing and piggy-backing Mollie. Get your hand off it, it's called trying to get in on the discussion and ask some questions. Furthermore the way you rebuffed my question in post 1235 makes it pretty clear that you're only interested in pushing your own agenda here. And your agenda stinks.

FoS @ Ma-jif-fy

Let's briefly dissect the next inferior cleaning product.

GR isn't the only one to not talk about the flip yet they single him out. Call his

posting

scummy, then votes Generic.

Pretty clear I'm taking issue with that one GR post, that's why I begin with

"That reply bugs me [...]"

.

Also, don't try to suggest that I was prepping up to vote GR and then contradict myself by voting Generic. That was a weaksauce observation on GR, at best, and doesn't preclude me from voting anyone else in any way. It should also be obvious why I immediately voted Generic, since Hiraki was his Day 1 counter-wagon and Hiraki flipped town.

SIDE NOTE: I don't have multiple personality disorder and I'm not a hydra, so I'm not "they"

Also what the fuck are we supposed to say about the lack of a kill? Good job role blocker/doctor/body guard/jail keeper/whateverotherfuckingrolewecouldhavethatpreventedakill/lol scum fail!

Learn to reee-eee-ad. "

Flip

/no-NK

" is right there slapping you in the face. What did Hiraki die for if we just erase Day 1 from our memories and forget there was ever another townie in the game?

Don't pretend you're making points on me, the vote is just a blatant sheep. You have no case.

Da fuck is going on? Majiffy, why are you scum? 10 words, GOGOGOGOGOGO.

That wasn't even cute Day 1.

That reply bugs me, it doesn't even voice your thoughts on the flip/no-NK. However, you could vote Generic and not make scumposts.

VOTE: Generic

This is scummy as fuck. Why does the lack of a nightkill matter? Why do you care that no one else cares? Why do we need to play into that bullshit? Everyone knows there is like a bazillion possibilities. This is one of those things scum can say to pretend to contribute, because we all very much know that discussion about the kill will go no where.

[...]

I'd like to revisit Hiraki's reads and lynchwagon in light of his flip. It goes without saying scum were on his lynch, scum were off his lynch, scum were every where! But seriously, the Hiraki lynch neatly divides up the playerlist a bit.

Hooooly shit, deja vu. "

Flip

/no-NK

" is right there slapping you in the face. So "discussing what happened yesterday is scummy as fuck" later turns into "I want to discuss what happened yesterday".

T-Bone, what "da fuck is going on" with you? 10 words, go.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Generic

You are driving my read bonkers, your post 1277 was good. I want to hear your completed reads.

So big wagon on Generic-town gets countered with wagon on Hiraki-town? Is that how it went down? Seriously?

UNVOTE: Generic

I want to reconsider options here. Micc may be a good one. Micc needs to post for a start.

[pieceofpecanpie]

"I know I just called Formerfish and Majiffy scum, and there's a sizeable wagon on Majiffy, but I'm going to say hey maybe Micc might be a good place for my sidelined vote"

Fucking scumbutt.

Oh Jif... Calling your case shit, because it is, is not the same as calling you scum.

And yeah, claiming was dumb. We're a while out before deadline, there was no reason to claim for a lynch.

And what did your cute rubbish with 50 Shades achieve? You set a tone for claiming, but backed out of the charade before there was a chance for a good alignment read.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'll finish doing a bit of an overview, updating my not-scum group and whatnot, and put Garruk's claim into context with that.

[pieceofpecanpie]

You

are

suspicious, so quite right on the FoS. You've been playing like you're on crack today.

[pieceofpecanpie]

You are suspicious, if I felt confident that suspicion translates to scum I'd be voting you.

The only person I'm refuting is you with your non-existent case. And just adding "scumbut" to the end of any post concerning me is really appealing to the playschool level of mafia.

I'll leave you to play with your crayons and I'll go finish my re-read.

[pieceofpecanpie]

That's definitely fair.

Your continued stubborn misrepping isn't.

You haven't proven me of lying, you can't, you've only shown an ability to make foregone conclusions and try to push them with charisma alone. That does not a scum case make. It does, however, make you suspicious.

But you're bussing Spyrex now, so you'll keep till later.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Can we all please agree that if you're going to reference a post that isn't on the same page or page immediately previous to your own referencing post, to

link the fucking post

? Because digging through pages trying to find a post number is asinine busywork.

[...]

You mean like the multiple times I've pointed out you directly contradicting yourself in a pathetic attempt to somehow "win" the argument?

You're an idiot. Go ahead and link the "multiple times" you've misrepped what I've said and I'll link where I've defended against it. I'm not going to bend to your cocky attitude and no case.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Something, something, downtime...

It's messed with my not-scum list and general catch up post a lot, been wanting to quote folks and do ISOs. While the sites rolling I'll see if I can get something up.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'll be V/LA for most of the Christmas period. I'll do my best to read and post.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I've managed to skim back up to here, but I can't really post anything.

I'm without net and bad reception in country NSW's for the next few days.

I can try to respond to anything super, super immediate.

[pieceofpecanpie]

And anyway popp and Porkens are pretty clearly scum buddies.

For the sake of clarity, please explain.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Very basic skimming impressions from the last 9 pages or so:

• Majiffy's game skill consists of calling people "scumbutt", do not sheep this numbskull at all costs
  
• Formerfish makes scummy posts and then labels themselves town for some of the weakest "butting heads" I've seen in #1696
  
• I don't like DV's slot, but I like DV's posts
  
• 50 Shades is impossible to read
  
• MoS is making strange posts, can't put my finger on it, they just seem out of place
  
• Garruk made a claim and then...?
  
• Players in general throw around weighty accusations despite a lack of preceding questions. Omnipotent? Keen observers? Scum?
  
• Quite a few players, like myself, are neither here nor there at this time of year. Treat that with some understanding, but don't let them get away with it forever.

I can answer basic questions for now, unfortunately I can't do all those things I love: ISOs, quotes, links, analysis etc. etc.

That'll do phone, that'll do.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Very basic skimming impressions from the last 9 pages or so:

• Majiffy's game skill consists of calling people "scumbutt", do not sheep this numbskull at all costs
  
• Formerfish makes scummy posts and then labels themselves town for some of the weakest "butting heads" I've seen in #1696
  
• I don't like DV's slot, but I like DV's posts
  
• 50 Shades is impossible to read
  
• MoS is making strange posts, can't put my finger on it, they just seem out of place
  
• Garruk made a claim and then...?
  
• Players in general throw around weighty accusations despite a lack of preceding questions. Omnipotent? Keen observers? Scum?
  
• Quite a few players, like myself, are neither here nor there at this time of year. Treat that with some understanding, but don't let them get away with it forever.

I can answer basic questions for now, unfortunately I can't do all those things I love: ISOs, quotes, links, analysis etc. etc.

That'll do phone, that'll do.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Deas

I'd consider Fishy over T-Bone at this point. I didn't gleam much from T-Bones's meta early game, but I'd need to re-read him properly before I'd be able to reconsider the situation.

Is there a case on or particular posts of T-Bone's that are of interest?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@ EPM's #1745.

Actually I knew what I thought and most of the association I saw was actually from Porkens' posting but a quick cmd+f of your iso for "Porkens" is actually a gold mine.

Yet you include none of Porkens' posts and your conclusions on mine are beyond a joke.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Now that Pie is posting again, I really want to go back to lynching the everliving shit out of him.

I'd really like better access to the net and be able to make a nice big shiny post shoving your stupid "scumbutt" case in your stupid face, but we can't always have nice things.

Maybe next year though.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Garruk, if you'd have pushed for it we could've lynched Spyrex today.

My number one reason for not voting him was that you disappeared after claiming, seemingly indifferent to whether the wagon was pushed or not. Secondly, I've only had half an ear on this game at the moment so I haven't had to luxury of considering this much more... but do you even care about lynching Spyrex?

I don't care much for this DV wagon. I wish I could scroll through the history of it at leisure and find something more compelling than just an off feeling, but you'd need to give me at least 3 days for that.

I'm going to vote an actual rotter, which is premature considering the deadline and my V/LA, but Deas is being run up so fast.

VOTE: evilpacman18

[pieceofpecanpie]

I don't agree with you wagon hopping everywhere, especially since Deas is at what... L-1? You weren't interested in lynching him, just voting him for a bit???

I want to hear from Garruk on Spyrex. Garruk has had very little to say on the matter, or any other. I suggest a standard formula would be push for lynch, claim if necessary NOT claim for lynch, not give a fig about pushing.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I wagon hop because I want to lynch scum. I will not lynch someone who I cha ge my mind on just because I'm voting too many different people.

What has changed your mind on DV? Where am I looking for examples of you doubting the DV wagon? You suddenly want to change just as a DV lynch is close to getting through, so you must feel strongly about DV's innocence. Do share.

Your last post to Garruk suggested you wanted to lynch Spyrex, but now you suddenly don't want to lynch Spyrex?

Not quite so, what I was more or less trying to say is that I'd have considered lynching Spyrex more if it hadn't been for Garruk's play today. His claim put Spyrex on the lynch table, but his lack of play surrounding that has left Spyrex's lynch wholly underdeveloped. I want him to comment on that. The "we" is a collective for town, not Garruk and myself. Perhaps that's why you read more conviction into it from me.

At this stage I'm more interested in developing a Pacman wagon.

[pieceofpecanpie]

DV lies, flip flops, and fabricates evidence to his own end.

That feels like your modus operandi. Especially with those tenuous reads of yours.

Semi-related, but

@50 Shades

any closer to addressing my post 1838, which you've blatantly ignored?

My number one reason for not voting him was that you disappeared after claiming, seemingly indifferent to whether the wagon was pushed or not. Secondly, I've only had half an ear on this game at the moment so I haven't had to luxury of considering this much more... but do you even care about lynching Spyrex?

It's mostly due to my extreme intense boredom with this game. I lurked out the first part of yesterday and likely will continue to until around day 4/5 or I die, one of the two.

I do care about lynching SpyreX, because I have a fairly obvious guilty on him and he's continued to not die, because of a stupid alignment-neutral claim.

First sentence = "I don't care".

Second sentence = "I do care".

It's simple, replace out if you don't give two figs about the game. This raises some doubts about your slot and any interest from me in pursuing Spyrex as an option for today. My play for this is to see which one - if any - scum targets and put the other one on the immediate lynch pile. At any rate the claim has been disappointing and has come with a fair degree of confusion. I don't know what value you'd want any town player to put on it at this stage with the way you have, and continue, to handle your play.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'd only consider lynching DV if we lynch 50 Shades after he flips town.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'd only consider lynching DV if we lynch 50 Shades after he flips town.

Only if you agree to self-vote when 50 flips town. And also name two of your scumbuddies.

I agree with these terms. I would've settled for naming two scumbuddies

before

lynching 50, but since you're driving a hard bargain I'm prepared to compromise.

Also, happy new year everyone. Give it a day or so and I'll comfortably be able to catch up with ISOs and reads, as opposed to scratching around with scribbly notes and a few posts at a time.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Why are people trying to force onto Spyrex? For full claim, lynch, what?

[pieceofpecanpie]

I may be overtly paranoid here, but Majiffy's name-calling campaign on me yesterday, a now dead town-Jiffy and some kids voting me because they're "doing it for Jiffy" just doesn't gel well with me. That's an excuse to vote me, not a reason. Neither does Garruk's tight-lipped start feel right, since he was all about sharing his role and use of it yesterday.

@Garruk

Any reason why you're keeping mum about who you blocked last Night?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Yes, a kill went through, you have a keen eye.

So Garruk has no information to offer town by revealing who they blocked because of this? (That's a pretty stupid thing to suggest)

Your speculation about scum not choosing Spy again is either borderline stupid or a scum-slip. Given your track record you get the benefit of the doubt, but igmeou.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I want Garruk to answer before I address your points, Formerfish.

[pieceofpecanpie]

How is it a stupid thing to suggest? The person GR blocked didn't make the kill, but that doesn't mean a thing. He could have blocked town or mafia alike and we would have no more information than we did before, other than who he targeted. If I am missing something obvious then let me know.

Spyrex's soft claim? I mean if he believes Spyrex is scum then there's every chance to block an

ability

or a kill.

I want Garruk to answer before I address your points, Formerfish.

That kinda defeats the purpose of this little dance we were attempting.

I never agreed to dance. You butted in when I was addressing Garruk. That's poor town play at best and scum running interference at worst.

Vote: Pecans

And I second AJ's question.

This vote is awful. You show interest in Garruk's action after all, yet are critical of me for wanting it.

You deserve this.

VOTE: Formerfish

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'll get to the rest of the catch up soon, there's still people and things I want to address.

[pieceofpecanpie]

As a general question, in relation to FF's post 2223, can I ask what's wrong with wanting Garruk -

a claimed townie PR on a ticking clock

(if true) - to reveal their action each Day they're alive?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Bit of a catch up attempt.

PoPP: Nothing I've seen from him has impressed me yet. The general lack of conviction through day 1 was pretty telling, and his posts were all showing insecurities where it seemed he wasn't that sure his own shadow might not be scum and try to stab him.

I really like this description, it describes my playstyle and biggest foible well. Although your shrewd observation essentially applies to

every one

of my games. Not sure how this, or not impressing you, equate to alignment and not just a stylistic observation.

On the other side, I was basically going to say Majiffy was my favorite poster in game but he died. It was obvious, his predecessor was town and majiffy was playing too relaxed and too sarcastically for most scum... I say that because I'm not sure I've seen majiffy as scum.

He seems to have a consistent tone as scum as well (not arguing with the flip, just fyi).

No shit I wasn't going to be killed.
No shit Garruk wasn't going to be killed.

I was thinking something similar, just with less conviction.

Jiffy flipping watcher and his dance with 50 early is something. I've had a lot of good vibes crashed against the docks lately with 50 and that makes my paranoia paranoid. I don't think jiff would have played coy if he had something solid though.

Same again.

Unvote, Vote: Pecans

Also still want to make Des dead.

Mykonian replaced mastin who is town. Thats fine.

The pie slot is off to a banner start.

Shit vote. Could you also elaborate on the underlined please?

Quick commentary on some other votes: Porkens has been posturing around me for the whole game, so the vote in post 2193 comes as no surprise, but it's still extremely disappointing how weak and empty it feels. FF's post 2194 vote is utter garbage, seems this guy can do nothing but throw crap "reads" out and sheep at every opportunity. It's definitely been on my radar, so I'm surprised it hasn't come up on anyone elses.

Also, this is just a general question. How come we struggled to get any wagon going yesterday, but Pecan is already half way there?

+1, and agree with mykonian's post 2209.

This guy is scum. Which makes me wonder why he's so easily giving up on a potential scum buddy.

In regards to Porkens that's somewhat nonsensical given his conviction that I'm scum for most of the game. Also, why did you single him out and not FF, who has essentially done the same?

Just pointing it out I think the scum team has already showed their hand and pushed hard of PoPP. A successful lynch of a scum player at this point probably outweighed the deadweight that PoPP was to their team. Spyrex is also on that wagon, surprise surprise. The player they're lynching is a good choice, the two scum on it are not.

Bold conspiracy theory you've got going there. I could counter with the, slightly paranoid, idea that you're setting yourself up with some nice justification to move your vote onto a couple of potential wagons with ease. Is there some link between myself, Porkens and Spyrex I'm not seeing? (If you answer with "you're all scum" I won't be impressed).

I know I'm out of hydra. Deal with it.

V/LA until Friday

I guess you haven't been "watching" the thread?

I needed a good laugh, thanks for that.

I'll end with a quick ramble on Garruk: In his position, blocking Spyrex Night 1, believing this to be the reason for the no-NK, thus making Spyrex scum and worth claiming to everyone makes the Night 2 choice of Majiffy confusing. Not in the sense of preventing another NK per se - since it's completely debatable whether scum-Spyrex would perform the kill again - but in the sense that he found a scummy target,

potentially a scummy PR target

, and instead completely switches tacts (as in, I don't see the Spyrex/Majiffy connection). Am I overthinking that a softclaimed Spyrex could easily be a PR in

either

alignment? Is that too big a leap? Is Garruk's inconsistency a symptom of their disconnection from the game? I mean I don't see a scum-Garruk trying a claim like that Day 2 and then not having an answer for Day 3, unless it's just an excuse to cover a blatant lie, but I would've thought the easier, and still viable, choice for a town-Garruk who's disconnected from the game would be to block Spyrex again.

[pieceofpecanpie]

*checks to see who Empking replaced, ISOs Empking*

@Empking

Have you finished reading the thread now? Where are your reads at?

@Desperado

Bit of old hat you hadn't followed up on so I'll bite some more. Can you explain

"properly vetted"

and how it even comes close to being applicable within the context of your post 2146?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Formerfish

Turn it back around OR point out that your argument is invalid...

How is it a stupid thing to suggest? The person GR blocked didn't make the kill, but that doesn't mean a thing. He could have blocked town or mafia alike and we would have no more information than we did before, other than who he targeted. If I am missing something obvious then let me know.

Spyrex's soft claim?

I mean if he believes Spyrex is scum then there's every chance to block an

ability

or a kill.

And since the italics wasn't enough for you in my #2284, here's some extra bold for you to keep an eye on.

Not in the sense of preventing another NK per se - since it's completely debatable whether scum-Spyrex would perform the kill again - but in the sense that he found a scummy target,

potentially a scummy PR target

, and instead completely switches tacts (as in, I don't see the Spyrex/Majiffy connection).

Your move.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Oh and vis-a-vis the mudslinging point, I thought that was your angle, since it seems like you try really

really

hard to justify two sheep votes on me. I'm calling you out for sheeping and I find the discrepancy lies in your transparent attempts to cover the sheeping up with some shoddy case work. It's (ironically) like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth and I want you to die.

pedit: It's because you're only seeing one option, why are you so open and shut on that? The scumslip is because this implies that you have more knowledge than town should have. At least I'm considering possibilities, ones that are alternate to yours. Is that scummy?

[pieceofpecanpie]

So someone who claimed town roleblocker should just stay silent from here on in until they are inevitably killed by scum, as opposed to giving all available information to town? Good one.

Also, as I previously stated, you butted in when I was addressing the question directly to Garruk. I couldn't give a fig that you're butthurt about not being seen to first, I didn't want any discussion about the roleblocking to affect a potential alignment read on Garruk's answer. (ie. he could've just adapted his answer to suit the nature of said discussion)

So me voicing my opinion on what should logically happen means that I have insider knowledge? Why would they choose Spy again if he was blocked night 1? They

would have to be fucking retarded

to pick him to make the kill again. Like pants on head retarded.

Watching you dance around admitting that it's still a possibility, as is Spyrex having a PR, is delicious. I've never had the same closed-off view as you, I've taken your view into account with the other options available. It's great that you don't believe that's how it would've gone down for scum, but if you were town you wouldn't know that for sure.

[pieceofpecanpie]

1. Lack of conviction may describe any one of your games, but unfortunately you seem to have an inability to make assertions. While reading and looking at your iso, I noticed you never try to 'mix it up' with anyone. You could insult someone and they'd take it as a greeting. Are you Canadian by chance?

What's that got to do with the price of fish? (and no, I'm not, you've got me all upside down)

I don't want to be hateful towards others, or act it, I've encountered those who can and it's really diminished my enjoyment at times, which leads to a lot of guilt when I find myself wandering down that path. Also, I think it creates false positives because reactions they may generate out of players could also be attributed to any amount of frustration at the lack of respect, whereas they feed their ego by interpreting any flustered tones as scumslips, blissfully unaware of their own douchebaggery. Having said all that, I play to win, I want to win, so I do try to develop some sense of tactics game to game. In relation to this I think a question I didn't answer (from Morph?) was about the "not scum" list I was trying to generate, which I've tried before in the past to some degree, but I'd like to refine it more and use it in conjuction with greater interaction. I'm not sure where this ramble is going, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

I feel the scum would've been in an advantageous position to go after Garruk because even though I see it as freeing of suspicion, the other opinions would've completely convoluted the thread to the point where they could skim by and buy another day without any suspicion.

That's very true, but both town and scum have left Garruk and Spyrex relatively untouched in day to day discussion. I think that muddies reads on other players, because there seems to be some apathy towards going at either one, which isn't going to shed any light on the matter until we see flips. Perhaps that's why scum haven't lynched either one, but it doesn't explain why town doesn't care. The only two people I see as exceptions are Formerfish and Desperado. Formerfish because he actually has made assertions about what has happened and I consider that scummy, rather than just his opinion that it's plainly logical. Desperado because he seems to be up to something, but I don't know what he's hiding, and Spyrex is latching onto it.

As for the connections, sorry but I'm not relying on 'connections'. Hell, it'd be in your best interests as a scum team to stay clear of each other even more so than usual, seeing as Porkens especially is doing an awful job of town posting.

Not relying on connections doesn't mean you're not seeing them, and I felt you implied by your previous post that there were connections present. And the tone of your second sentence - besides hilariously advising scum to not look connected more than usual, which in itself would make them connectable - also implies that connections play a role in identifying scum. So what's the deal, are you reading tea leaves or is there something in this game that's got you throwing those particular names out?

[pieceofpecanpie]

When I spoke to SSK right before daybreak, I told him Desperado.

You mean you told SSK you blocked Desperado and not Majiffy? Am I reading this right?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Okay. Am I supposed to be feeling this confused? Garruk are you by any chance the owner of a large chocolate factory, where the snozzberries taste like snozzberries?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Mr Squiggle?

But seriously Garruk, can you make sense of what you're doing? I'm struggling.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Come on, you can't all be scum on my wagon. Town players sheeping like idiots then. I think Jiffy's "scumbutt" catch cry from yesterday has more merit than this.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'm with MoS' case.

Furthermore, early game posting efforts by Porkens give off a veneer of townplay when considering how bad his latest posts have been. I was townreading it for a while, but there's nothing going for the second half of his ISO (the avatar change seemed to spark the end of reads or any town posts). Anyone not on my wagon should consider Porkens a good option for today. Lazy people on my wagon have plenty of time to switch.

VOTE: Porkens

[pieceofpecanpie]

[...] does a scum roeleblocker claim role blocker with a

successful protect

day two of a large and then play as I do?

Roleblocker's get told when their action is successful? That's news to me.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Don't talk like you're helping them, notscience.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Don't talk like you're helping them, notscience.

1) Don't talk like your word has any more credence than mine and I'm the VI people are asking to vig

2) Votes help, do they not?

1) Durrr? I didn't say my word has more credence, but I'm also not the one being called a VI (whereas you've done something to attract that label, perhaps you want to do something to lose it, or attack the people calling you on that, or just continue to wear it and then it's on you to generate credibility some other way). Don't puff your chest out at me while also lamenting this VI label (if that's what your doing). It's not a badge of honour or something. Your "go team town" bullshit in #2354 is all good and well, as long as you accept that cheering from the sidelines and sheeping the players you like does not make you part of "team town".

2) Shit votes don't help. You've interacted or shown interest in lynching me how? Oh by sheeping and active lurking. Nice. Yeah, not all votes help.

[pieceofpecanpie]

[translated with hyperbole by myself]

I whine a lot because I haven't done anything and people want me vigged because of it. Do you seriously expect me to do anything apart from being apathetic? Like interact or take initiative, what's that? I'm convinced if I try to do anything beyond active lurking people will just ignore me or won't take me seriously, so I won't try.

Furthermore, the rest of town aren't trying either. They're all too apathetic and scum have already won. No, I don't see the irony in me bashing town for not working together while a second ago I was inventing reasons why I shouldn't be trying or working with others.

Pull your finger out mate and show a proactive approach.

[pieceofpecanpie]

NS do you normally see town brow beat people into seeing things their way? In my experience that's generally a scum tell. Will you help me lynch the scumbag?

Nice tunnel vision, you hypocrite.

Instead of "brow beating" people to vote me from within your self-enclosed bubble you might actually notice a significant proportion of players voting Porkens. Ignore my posts/opinion as much as you like. You didn't say you were going to ignore MoS', but that's exactly what you did when you plainly dismissed his post 2332.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@morph

That's

very

interesting. I have a minor bombshell that may indeed tie neatly into yours.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Who's berating people for having a different opinion? Me? I'm berating him, if that's what you want to call it, because he isn't interested in lifting his game, but still has time to come on here and lament how crap town is.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Why do I keep getting told to go fuck myself and fuck off...? Because I'm making an effort to have an opinion, because I'm scum, because I didn't shave this morning?

Is there something wrong with at least remaining remotely civil? Scum read or no.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I didn't "dismiss" it, I just don't feel the same way about things as he does.

You just hold a different opinion. Maybe you can see that not everyone shares yours or feels the same way about things as you do.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@morph

That's

very

interesting. I have a minor bombshell that may indeed tie neatly into yours.

You have the floor.

[redacted]

pedit: I hit preview one more time before posting... It doesn't matter either way, my role is limited.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Are we scum, or could you be acting kind of like a dick?

Maybe if you didn't call me invisible, clap your hands over your ears going "lalalalalalala you're scum I don't care", then you wouldn't seem to be a dick yourself.

But whatever, your attitude has been counter-productive to having a discussion with me. You've nitpicked something out of my posts that makes me scummy and refused to hold that up to scrutiny. That's your prerogative. I don't see how me defending myself, or attempting to show you other options or holding a different opinion (I'm obviously not going to come around to agreeing with you that I'm scum) is me acting like a dick.

We both seem stubborn, that's for sure. I'm happy to keep butting heads. Also, I can break down further how my opinion of your play differs from your own interpretation if you want to iron out exactly where I'm "misrepping" you.

[pieceofpecanpie]

It's up to you, pecan. Do you feel at this time and point that town will be aided by what you have to say?

I feel it's worth sharing what I have. I wasn't going to, but your claim gives me no reason not to. I don't want to jump to conclusion about what my information means, but I still feel it's relevant. And maybe we can join some dots.

1-Shot Cop. Used on Spyrex Night 2. It didn't go through.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Pecan, I am willing to ceasefire with you for the mean time.

I would appreciate that, although it's your call. Obviously my blood's been up a bit since I've tried to get some interaction going with Garruk today and felt a bit trodden on for doing so. But I'm definitely not blaming you for that, it's fair game.

@Morph

Have you had some hydra dialogue going about what's possibly gone down the last few Nights? Is it worth trying to get somewhere with that?

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'm getting a good vibe from Gen's post 2428. I have no idea how many times I've mulled about his posts or alignment, but this one feels very town.

[pieceofpecanpie]

With that list you'd have to expect a Rolecop on scum, possibly a Roleblocker.

Also, two teams.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I don't agree with 50s self-appraisal, but I have no fricken clue what T-Bone's claim is about. Balance wise, would you expect to see more or less PR's in a multiball large game? I have no experience of playing in one with multiple scum factions.

Are these all the current claims/info we have?

Garruk

- Roleblocker

Morph

- Multishot Bulletproof

pecan

- 1-Shot Cop

Porkens

- Doc

T-Bone

- Seer

Spyrex

- soft-claim something?

FormerFish

- CC'd Porkens?

Majiffy

- confirmed Watcher

[pieceofpecanpie]

I don't know. Do you believe a one-shot cop exists to find mafia while a full seer exists to find werewolves? Do you think we would have a no kill night 1 and one kill night 2 (on Majiffy) if this was multiball?

That's what I'm asking. I don't have experience with this, do you? I believe from my zero experience that less PRs in a multiball makes more sense from a functional and balance standpoint. The lack of kills seems to suggest it's less likely we're dealing with two teams, but what have other people seen in multiballs?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Does someone know where the VC stands on Porkens? We're either about to hit a good lynch or lose a doc with Formerfish as tomorrow's consolation lynch.

If there's a lot of protective/blocking roles present it could go some way to explaining the low kill count so far and we're about to see an explosion in bodies.

[pieceofpecanpie]

8. Paschendale- NULL, one of my better picks for scum. Asked for time to get accustomed to the game D1, really hasn't shown up at all in recent times, more has faded into the background. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Nachomollie and morph thoughts on him plox

9. Empking Agent Minnesota (PhDScar + Shaboostein hydra) NULL Empkings in this game?
16. mykonian M45t1n- TOWN, stance re: me and predecessor was pretty townie
19. Micc Maenara NULL He's still in this game?

8. True that, where the hell is Pasch?
9. As above.
16. Strongest disagree from that list (yes that includes the sexy remark on yourself), slot has done incredibly little.
19. That's DeasVail.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@MoS

Interesting choice to look outside the pool of claims rather than within it. That's you literally staring at a group of claimed town PRs and - undoubtedly - a number of scum gambits and saying "hmmm, nothing to see here guess I'll cast my net of questions elsewhere". And you choose a player who's been increasingly distant and flaky of late and place your trust in that opinion? None of that makes sense.

So question for you MoS, of everyone who's claimed something thus far, with whom would you place your trust in and why aren't you setting up a dialogue with them based on that feeling? After all, they have a PR and if town they have a much shorter time to converse with you than a VT/unclaimed ninny/flaky scum scum from the shadows.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Perfectly serious, Desp, you've barely participated today for starters. But okay, we'll gather round and listen to whatever omnipresent opinions you want to fling out. Like your #2704. There are people listed there that you consider trustworthy, and your examples of working with those various members and/or their claims are where to be found exactly...?

[pieceofpecanpie]

I "want to fling out?" MoS asked me specifically what I made of all of the claims, so I gave him my read on everyone that has claimed.

When I said

"[...] whatever omnipresent opinions you want to fling out"

, I was referring to the baseless nature of your reads, not the fact that you got asked a question and were answering said question. That should be pretty fucking obvious to be honest. I'll chalk that down as a blatant attempt to misrep, since including more of that sentence - rather than condensing it as you just did - would make it impossible to misinterpret.

You have anything else to blabber on about or can we finish bussing your buddy?

You were happy to blabber to MoS about your feelings and I'm not holding up the show as I'm already bussing my bu- oh shit, I totally fell for your clever trap. Guess I've just given you a reason to vote me, unlike that lazy claptrap you used at the start of the Day.

Speaking of buddies, looks like you've got one.

PoPP, Desp isn't scum. Derp around elsewhere, especially now with 4-5 unresolved claims.

That thing you said there, Aj, that's kind of what I was saying to MoS, I was like "we've got a bunch claims, why are you derping around with Desp for..." Awww forget it. Desp is playing derpy, along with with playing a convoluted game of hide-and-seek (ie. "I'll hide information from you and you'll have to break your balls trying to find it). I

think

I see what's going on here now, so I certainly will go derp around elsewhere.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Desp

The penny-dropped thanks to Aj's #2744, no thanks to you you smug git. My crystal clear critique of the latest turds you consider good posting still stand, and might just be the cool dose of clarity you require to quell that self-stroked mafia erection of yours.

Unless someone has any last wishes, we're ready to hammer.

I'm ready. Unless you want to wait till everyone has had a chance to say how obvious the mason claim was then I think it's hammer time.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Mykonian

Well we're about to find out if there's at least one too many claimed, by lynching the most suss of the three.

Also, since you opened it up to speculation, if we're to believe that Spyrex is a lover/doctor then two docs is not beyond the realm of possibility. Especially if either of them are yet to claim being limited in some way.

What have masons got to do with the number of doctors, are they mutually exclusive?

@Generic

I believe the joke is you're the only one up there who's claimed VT, as opposed to a PR.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Agree, but Spyrex was also the obvious protect. So frankly I'm surprised.

[pieceofpecanpie]

VOTE: Garruk

I'd prefer we went in the randomised order. Let's have it then.

[pieceofpecanpie]

UNVOTE: Garruk

Just goddamn claim already, Garruk, it's not that hard and there's really no reason why you should be going last.

VOTE: 50 Shades

So this is 50/50 for me. If Shades doesn't flip scum then we can lynch T-Bone immediately with impunity, unless someone wants to start entertaining the notion of framers? Here's my rambly rundown:

- T-Bone's timing with the claim does not make a lick of sense as a scum gambit, unless he was trying to take heat off Porkens? I dunno, seems far fetched. On the other hand the claim is a serious wtf moment for either alignment
- 50 Shades has been vote hopping like mad the whole game, perhaps its just their schtick, or it's a good way to hide scummy behaviour. By contrast T-Bone seemed more measured, especially Day 2 and early Day 3, which plays better in my eyes and also makes me want to give the claim some credence
- To entertain this as a scum gambit we need to consider what they stand to benefit. A 1 for 1 trade at best? On a VT was it?
- Despite all this the claim is suspect, since this implies we've got a multiball with the best docs/blockers I've seen. Or we've got a half mad T-Bone lying through their teeth

That's kind of how I'm toing and froing on this one. At this stage I'll go with the claim and see where it leads, mostly because I don't know any better. So I'll cautiously believe it because if it was a scum gambit to get us off Porkens then it failed and as an attempt to take out 50 Shades it only barely scrapes out a 1 for 1 trade. That seems an extremely reckless move as scum, so I've decided to believe this was T-Bone waiting around all yesterday for 50 Shades to come back to the thread so he could awkwardly claim onto him.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I was blocked last Night... again

pedit: Waaa?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Quick thought, is T-Bone pulling a super hard bus on a scumbuddy?

And does me being blocked twice suggest that Garruk's lying or that there's a scum roleblocker? I'd go the latter, as Garruk does not seem inherently scummy, just a bit derp about his earlier plays. Although this still begs the question, why wouldn't scum block a doc and kill the other? Did they outguess themselves or is there much much more lying going on?

[pieceofpecanpie]

UNVOTE: 50 Shades

VOTE: T-Bone

Werewolf/Not Werewolf is the most plausible flavour text for the seer in this game. Otherwise I don't understand how our roles gel. T-Bone gets innocents on non-werewolf scum? I get innocent on werewolf 50 Shades? This would be much easier if my investigation on T-Bone went through. However, I think it's worth lynching and then deciding what to do with 50 Shades later. The whole odd-timed claim makes me think there's more to this. On the other hand there's also players I want to see lynched before 50 Shades.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Desperado

trusts

both 50 Shades and T-Bone. Fucking lol, I think he's been drunk for a week.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Do the cool mason kids just talk among themselves or does Aj want to say something here?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Hey, game started again. Hey what the hell at 50 Shades kill and flip. There was no second gunman? No one behind the grassy knoll? I'm scratching my head about the T-Bone/Shades business now.

Yeah, that looks right.

VOTE: Empking

So you agree you should be the 3rd lynch?

Appreciate the laugh. Pasch is barely showing interest in reading, Pasch is a good lynch choice in my eyes.

@MoS' #2896

This is a 100% great post, and here I was thinking that you could be more bug than brains. This is exactly the state of mind I can agree with for where we're currently at, the reads and comments are spot on. Probably the only contentious point you make is the one about Garruk, but I totally feel you here. I've had my moments of seriously doubting what's going on with Garruk, and then I've swung back to "nah the simple and obvious explanation is he's telling the truth, but it just looks messy". However, having failed investigations for two Nights running is doing my head in and at times Garruk has been on my radar for this. Alas, no more, I investigated 50 Shades last Night. I know, I know... but it was the obvious choice for me given yesterdays shenanigans with T-Bone. The kill is a bit of a shock.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Desp, are you drunk rambling again? Shades was conf. town? That doesn't fly with your reaction in post 2890.

More brain please.

[pieceofpecanpie]

50 was pretty much confirmed when TBone flipped not only scum, but the scum that gave scum daytalk. Why would you investigate them or even have any doubts at that point?

Yeah, the fact he was encryptor makes the move on Shades even stranger and gave me even greater incentive to want to clear Shades. You're telling me it's easy to accept T-Bone suicided onto Shades for no apparent reason? So the way it went down was just a really bad attempt to mislynch Shades by T-Bone? That's not how I saw it, that's crazy logic. Of course this now appears the most acceptable answer, but you're prepared to say you saw this all along? I certainly didn't, my post 2847 makes this very clear. Of course T-Bone's PR claim just doesn't gel with mine so I liked him as a lynch option, but the lynch and flip didn't clarify Shades for me. On that note, T-Bone as Seer and me as 1-Shot Cop made very little sense. Now that T-Bone's claim is proven bogus you're saying what exactly? That mine loses credibility too? The fuck...?

Also, Desp has no clues. He

trusted

T-Bone LOLZ.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I think Pash's "follow the mob" post 2894 is a much scummier play and another example of his disconnection and disassociation from discussion. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if he hopped onto me right now for no reason. However, I can't stress enough that he's exactly the type of player town want to be looking at right now.

VOTE: Pasch

[pieceofpecanpie]

...or I could do Empking today.

Lynch fodder in order of preference:

1. Pasch
   or
   Empking
   
   
2. mykonian
   - seriously no one's paid any attention to this guy
   
3. DeasVail
   - same as above, also noticeably absent from MoS' post 2896. Is that a slip?
   
4. notscience
   - first thought is VI, but I advice town not to dismiss him on those grounds, especially when lylo starts approaching
   
5. Generic
   - really hard to pin down, as with notscience I don't recommend him being around for lylo
   
6. MoS
   - picked up his game a lot over recent Days, but early stuff was troublesome. Remember scum are surely under the pump by this point, so watch closely. (also see DeasVail)
   

   ---

   
   
7. Garruk
   - he's more than likely being honest about the RB, but I've got a question mark over the alignment. No scum RB's have flipped, something has been blocking me, so clearly I have my suspicions
   
8. AJ
   and
   Desperado
   - AJ's slot looked bad before AJ came in and he's flaked of late, especially after the claim. Desp has steadily become more ridiculous. The tunnel on me is lazy or scummy or both. Remember, we've just had an Encryptor flip so scum could've formulated the claim/crumbs at any point. It's unlikely/extremely ballsy of them and they're down this far on the list for exactly that reason. Just bear the thought in mind
   

   ---

   
   
9. morph
   - I believe the claim, it's pretty far-fetched as a scum move
   
10. Spyrex
    - claim seems to hold up thus far, although I really need to re-evaluate what happened with this slot, Garruk's RB claim and how it's panned out thus far. Surely this is high priority NK for scum, or at least the other lover is. I guess something will give between Spy/FF/lover eventually and it'll become clearer
    
11. Formerfish
    - a tunneling poop maybe, but his CC on Porkens seems completely town motivated. No reason for doubt at this point
    

    ---

    
    
12. Pecan
    - I'm not voting myself, I'm delicious

[pieceofpecanpie]

Mykonian's post 2913 -

Baaaaaaaaaa

2-Shot Mafia Cop and Werewolf Seer make perfect sense as a tandem if there are multiple scum teams.

I don't even...

notscience's post 2918 -

Baaaaaaaaaaa

[...] Why not vote pecan? Even if I am wrong about him his usefulness has waned, and now with his contributions we know that 50 is town. He can die knowing that he did all he could to help town. Hell even in death he will help because can stop worrying about me and my rabbit hole adventures when it comes to his slot.

Let's be clear, my shot's spent, I have no special powers, nothing magical to bring to this game apart from my brain and the drive to be active and continue discussion. Have you even considered any of the slots who have coasted along at this point? You seem to imply that I was useful at some point, what was I doing that was useful and why has that waned? You've done fuckall besides tunnel me. Is that useful? Sure you've got your role and you'll keep using that, but our roles aren't the be all and end all. And sure if mislynching me will give you peace of mind them I'm real happy for you, and I certainly don't have a problem with being lynched to help town progress, but at this stage it's some fucking misguided justification you've got going there. Not sure what I did to be the lynch love of your life, but I don't know what you'll do without me this game to be honest, since you'll have to fill the void. I hope it gets filled with motivation to look at some crucial slots (Pasch, Empking, notscience, DV etc.) because they're getting a free-ride.

[pieceofpecanpie]

That's poor form, blaming others for your lack of play. If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.

[pieceofpecanpie]

That's poor form, blaming others for your lack of play. If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.

Back to this shit again? I stepped it up and came to a pool of 3 scum (in the remaining) (conveniently in your top 5), yet you're asking people to not let me pass by, saying you'd want to PL me before lylo EVEN THOUGH YOUR SCUMREADS MATCH UP ALMOST IDENTICALLY. That's bullshit.

@morph, thanks.

You're in my top 5 though, so that's a pretty significant way that our scumreads don't match up.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I took that portion of the claim [knowing the vest was used] as you baiting out Garruk to be honest, morph.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Even when Pasch has internet he doesn't post until he's getting close to being lynched.

That's not supposed to be a cheap shot, just a matter of fact. I've seen Pasch get mislynched in games quite a lot, however the problem is that his passive style of play and retrospective analysis and general damnation of his wagons is just asking for that. It's a very egocentric playstyle where he only comes out to post when attention is focused on him ie. looks like scum trying to coast through for as long as possible and then survive by discrediting any wagons on themselves.

Now I'm obviously hoping this isn't a Pasch mislynch we're looking at. Pasch is still a good vote for me because I've PoE'd a number of people as town and he's still sitting right smack bang in my unknown/scummy block.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Pecan, if you think I'm scum, share some reasons. If you give townreads to some players, share the reasons. Maybe after some discussion you won't hold the same positions. An argument from ignorance is not a good place to go from.

You're bloody right ignorance isn't a good thing. post 2907, post 2912, post 2921. All of those are posts made by me this Day concerning you and others, reasons why you're in a scummy bloc, reads on players etc. etc. Perhaps you should give those a read my ignorant chum instead of giving a stock standard rebuff from your "I'm not a crook" template.

So what about my actions bothers you? I'd be happy to address them when I get back.

You serious? Are you fucking serious? It's right there smack bang above your post. You know, the one that mentioned your name and compelled you to come in with another one of those reactionary "I ain't scum" style posts.

Taken from #2966, DIRECTLY ABOVE PASCH'S RESPONSE:

"

I've seen Pasch get mislynched in games quite a lot, however the problem is that his passive style of play and retrospective analysis and general damnation of his wagons is just asking for that. It's a very egocentric playstyle where he only comes out to post when attention is focused on him ie. looks like scum trying to coast through for as long as possible and then survive by discrediting any wagons on themselves.

"

@everyone

Supper time boys, Pasch needs rope!

[pieceofpecanpie]

Uhhh, DV I was implying that he missed you from that list because you're scum together. So if you believe he's lying then you're proposing we lynch MoS today and you tomorrow...?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@Empking

I'm all ears oh shuddery one.

[pieceofpecanpie]

You know who's done jack shit today. Those two supposed masons.

@Mod

Prod on AJ please. 13 days no post.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Lol, nice counterwagon.

Also, AJ you've been absent for 13 days. You have no right to chuck a hissy.

[pieceofpecanpie]

If anyone's interested in checking out the previous page and looking at Pasch's play, then you'd find an excellent lynch there in the making.

[pieceofpecanpie]

EBWOP

Page 119.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'm not lynching him to clear my name, I'm lynching him because:

- I haven't PoE'd him as town, unlike some - mostly claimed - players
- He's in a bloc of people who are either playing scummy or would make good lynches (Pasch is both)
- His posts on page 119 were completely ridiculous

If Pasch flipping scum clears my name for you, then sure, climb aboard and help lynch this scummy player. However, has nothing I've said or done given you an impression that I'm town anyway?

[pieceofpecanpie]

my reply to jerks on page 120:

Scum is a word, sure, but a case it does not make. So I'm still wondering what on earth validates anyone thinking I'm scum. You can call a watermelon an apple too, but that'd just leave me wondering how you learnt to get your jaw so wide.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@MoS

Thank you for your #3036, if I hadn't come across that post on this read through I was about to make an extremely similar one myself. Still, I couldn't have put it better.

@morph

Said witty, incisive commentary appears to be severely lacking. Is there anything we're supposed to be learning here?

[pieceofpecanpie]

@morph Said witty, incisive commentary appears to be severely lacking. Is there anything we're supposed to be learning here?

The spoiler title was meant to be ironic.

Cabd is more of a VCA analyst than I am, but I did have some nebulous thoughts about what the movements on the bandwagons suggest.

It seemed to be inferring that I was scum because I occupied the L-1 slot. As far as I remember I just wanted a lynch and flip. I'm not much good at VCA analysis, but aren't Day 1's almost always mislynches and can be so with very little scum input? I thought VCAs in latter Days become more useful for analysis purposes.

Do you think the Hiraki wagon was 100% town?

In Hiraki's case, no I don't. I found the post I was looking for, post 1173, where I did indicate that there was a scum feel to the wagon. My suspicion was on 50 Shades, which turned out incorrect, but looking at the wagon now a player that immediately jumps out at me is Mykonian. Garruk, notscience and Generic all have a presence there, which could warrant investigation, but did you notice the way confirmed scum have spread themselves out (re: T-Bone, Porkens)? I wouldn't say Hiraki's wagon was 100% town, but if there was scum on it I feel it likely they didn't need many to see the lynch through. So perhaps as little as one scum on his wagon (first preference Mykonian).

I also feel Pasch is looking very conspicuous with his vote

not

on Hiraki's wagon.

Claimed one shot who was supposedly blocked once or twice and then finally investigated a townie player who died that night. Pecan is scum at best, and not useful anymore at worst.

Can I return to this. Unless there is one of those extreme coincidences which in mafia are by rare, this points to pecan scum...

I don't think it does. Not strongly. As has been pointed out by someone earlier (I forget who), it would be a trivial exercise to pick a living town player with a reasonable amount of suspicion on them and claim an innocent result.

The first time I drew a cop role, the player I investigated on night 1 died that night. On night 2 and 3 I was jailkept. Town won on day 4 with 4 scum lynches, but it had nothing to do with my investigations :/.

I still don't get these drums that folks like Desperado are beating... I think MoS raised essentially every point I wanted to make in his post 3036 and in a well articulated way too.

Generic, have you even tried to resolve those points of contention? Why would I do the things I did when I could do them any number of ways and more than likely would have done things differently if I was scum? Stop saying that because this happened and I did this other thing that means I must be scum, there's a major fault line running between the this happened and this happened and the conclusion that I'm scum because of it.

I think it's much more useful if we focus on "this happened and this happened, what does that mean?"

Rather than, "this happened and this happened, oh and Pecan is scum because of it." To which I say, "sure, you and your half-witted conf. bias can see that, but there's no link being drawn between the actions, statements and my alignment". Calling me scum for investigating 50 Shades is much the same as calling me scum for when you wake up with a cold ear. I could be scum when you have a cold ear, or when you don't, but your ear's probably cold because of the weather and there's no link between your ear and my alignment. Just like there's been no attempt to link what I said/did and my scumminess. I could say "I like cats" and Drunkerado would be "Pecan said he likes cats = scum-Pecan" in the same way he would if I said I liked dogs or if I investigated 50 Shades (oh yeah, he did to the last one).

For a start, me being blocked two Nights in a row means either Garruk is lying or scum have a blocking role (I've said this many times previously, and it's why I was so interested in Garruk claiming his action Day 2 after I'd first been blocked). I wasn't blocked last Night when I chose 50 Shades. So does that mean scum were just tying up lose ends? What was with T-Bone's fake-claim then? Failed gambit? Why didn't scum keep the slot alive, since it was open to questions about what 50 Shades' alignment was when T-Bone flipped as a lying scum. I mean, T-Bone just freely suicides for no reason? Am I the only one who would express doubt at that being the easiest explanation?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Morph, I notice you didn't colour Spyrex in any way. Do you have doubts about his claim/slot?

[pieceofpecanpie]

So any reason why you didn't colour him a shade of green then, morph?

I think his claim is valid when I take into consideration that I believe there is a scum-blocking role and Garruk is a town aligned one.

That would make a town doc, town doc/lover combo, town roleblocker, scum block-something. Bearing in mind that we've got a flipped scum rolecop and plenty of ways to break cross-protects/blocks and get kills through I'd say having Spyrex's role in the game is definitely possible. Also, with the right set of circumstances in night actions, town can walk away unscathed, and we've done that several times.

[pieceofpecanpie]

(At least my current thoughts consider a town and scum blocking role most likely)

[pieceofpecanpie]

@morph

Well if that's all there is to it then whatever, but yes, if you're inconsistent with things like that then it's hard to tell whether you're making a statement or what... So either FF and Spyrex are green or they aren't. This would also affect how you analyse wagons, whether you're going to make the leap that their claims have enough credence or you aren't. I mean right now you've got Spyrex in the same non-coloured scheme as myself, and that's confusing, especially since your

L-1 vote was POPP.

seemed to be suggesting something.

Colour me unimpressed.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@morph

Stop being shifty, you know I'm curious to hear what that L-1 remark was all about exactly.

[pieceofpecanpie]

It should be no problem for you to reveal said wires, tells and gut read triggers and help get me lynched, no?

QQ more scum.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Yeah, no worries. I thought there was more to it than what you'd already said, at least it seemed like you were angling for more. Are you planning on more VCA soon?

[pieceofpecanpie]

No, that's reaching the age of 5 101.

Mafia 101 is finding the

actual

scum and lynching them. Like Pasch, last seen in lurky land waiting for a new assault on him, so he can reappear, and deny it blindly.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Lurk your favorite word for today, Popp? You've used it quite frequently.

I know I haven't, but whatever, let's deliver that with some evidence. All instances of the following words see me appear on the list 3 out of a possible 22 times. A quick glance suggests Garruk is the main user, I'm roughly on par with Spyrex, morph and Generic. We're all probably sitting a little bit above average and if you subtract the players from the playerlist who are *ahem* lurking or not really active enough to describe anyone else as lurking, than there's nothing out of the bloody ordinary here.

"lurk" - 0/3

"lurking" - 2/16

"lurky" - 1/3

Anything more to add you imbecilic lurky lurking mclurkster from lurkistan?

[pieceofpecanpie]

Guess moving also means that you can't stand still long enough to actually address the posts/questions directed at you.

PoE sheer nonsense? I guess all those doc claims, bulletproof, RB all that is just sheer nonsense too? May as well roll a couple of dice and go with that 'ey?

I'm also amazed that I've seen game after game where Pasch brings out a defence at some point that runs along the lines of "I always get mislynched..." and then goes on the blame others for this. It's almost like there's a pattern here, and no these are different players voting Pasch every time, and I'm pretty sure the pattern isn't that it's always everyone else's fault.

I'm more than happy to one for one for Pasch. He's apparently under the impression that our current role PMs are somehow linkable to each previous game/alignment. eg. "I've been mislynched previously, so you know I'm getting mislynched now". This needs to go, in my opinion, I think town'll be a lot better off. And after Pasch flips scum, if you think I'm a part of his team and just bussing the shit out of him, then get rid of me too.

Sound peachy?

Or there's Mykonian as an alternative... notscience, Empking... But hell, Mykonian lately has been truly bizarre and I'd be more than happy to see him go as well.

[pieceofpecanpie]

These VCA's make Pach's votes look just as bad as his posts.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I kinda wonder why DeasVail is having a hard time joining any one of the three major wagons.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Did that just happen?

I thought the song's weren't designed to fit roles and more just for flavour, but whatever. Mine sort of feels like it fits, but I was never going to put any conviction behind a song claim confirming my role.

Boards of Canada - Dayvan Cowboy

[pieceofpecanpie]

But, but...

[pieceofpecanpie]

Just look at the lack of NKs. Unless they're not even submitting targets, then they've certainly been trying something.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I'm very happy with my feelings, case and comments towards scum-Pasch so I'm a bit loathe to have to consider switching onto Mykonian, but if it comes to that before deadline then I will. He's certainly in my block of lynchables for today (see post 2912).

In regards to Mykonian he has been much more on my radar since post 3074 and the calamity of contradictions that follow. Desp's post 3083 is a good place to see Mykonian's odd stance cop a good roasting. It's a bit of a "I want this guy lynched, but will never push or follow up on my claims that his scumminess is super obvious. Plus I'll vote other people freely while I'm touting this stance and be quite unaware or ignorant of any opposition to it."

Although I consider Desp's desire to lynch me as completely hamfisted, for the time being I consider his slot as more likely town-aligned (since the alternative of two scum claiming mason is one hell of a ballsy gambit and one that should only be considered towards endgame if town gets really stuck) so I have to respect the fact that he's seeing something or trying something for town win-condition purposes. Although I'll continue to try and get a better case and sense of logic out of him, it's more to prevent players like Mykonian from slipping on and off such a wagon with little justification and a slippery vote conscious.

So for lynch purposes I can vote Mykonian, but Pasch just seems like a better scum-lynch for today.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I will, before 4 days runs out at the very least.

Right now? Nothing more for folks to add? I think my vote would make it L-1, so I don't think people like Deas would be too worried about weighing into the discussion if that's the case.

Eh, that's probably already gone just by suggesting intent.

[pieceofpecanpie]

@DV

Is there going to be a point where you stop stalling...?

[pieceofpecanpie]

What point did you just notice, Generic?

It's been mentioned plenty of times that if Garruk is a town-aligned roleblocker than there's more than likely a scum-aligned one out there as well. I talked about it as recently as post 3065.

[pieceofpecanpie]

And it's complete and utter bullshit that I'm stalling you fishy bastard.

VOTE: Mykonian

That's L-1.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Was this EVER explained?

This IS interesting and something I forgot about. It seems infitesmally more within the realm of reality that they planned the seer/cop dichotomy to confirm PoPP than some backwards-ass theory about me being pushed as a townread off a relatively unnecessary block on T-Bone.

Hmm.

No, don't agree at all. Looking at the context of when T-Bone made his claim:

- Porkens was the leading wagon and likely lynch target
- My claim had no impact on the impeding Porkens lynch, although my vote would
- My claim hadn't been doubted or discredited in any way at the time
- 50 Shades wasn't on the agenda at the time, my claim wasn't of interest at the time - except for PoE purposes - discussion of your blocks/role wasn't relevant to Porkens lynch either

The simplest explanation as I see it is:

- T-Bone's claim was running disruption or an attempt to destabilise the Porkens lynch

T-Bone's claim, along with trying to get 50 Shades lynched, put both my and T-Bone's role into serious doubt as they don't mesh together (seer with innocent/guilty [NOT werewolf/not werewolf] results vs a limited shot cop with innocent/guilty results) and I don't think the timing of putting two scum (if you're running with a T-Bone/myself scum team scenario) under the spotlight while a third scum (Porkens) is on the lynch table reflects optimal or obvious scum moves. At least, that's not how saw it going down.

I think the consequence of T-Bone's rubbish claim giving mine a shred more credit was unintended. But if you're going to run it within the realms of reality that this was all a scum set-up, then I'm surprised that YOU - as the supposed town roleblocker - would be picking a rather obtuse angle at making me out to be scum and not just calling bullshit on my claims that I've been blocked twice. You're either heavily subscribing to the notion that there is a second blocking role out there, or I would've seen a plethora of "well it wasn't me 'cause I blocked [...]" style posts throughout Day 2, 3 and so on.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Have we had two RBs declared beyond you pecan?

If you mean has anyone else claimed to have been blocked, then no I don't think so.

Bear in mind, not many roles get feedback on whether they are or aren't blocked. Also worth noting is that, as far as I know, roleblockers aren't told whether their blocks are successful (food for thought regarding Garruk's certainty that his block on Spy prevented the NK).

Pasch needs to die.

@ mollie: Disappeared my ass. This is all you're getting for now unless drunk/stoned me decides he wants to play mafia on his birthday later.

Desp, this was late day 2 after the DV wagon collapsed and the SpyreX wagon started to pick up steam again.

What changed your mind about Pasch?

I like this quote you dug up.

[pieceofpecanpie]

No, that was Generic I believe.

Although Pasch and Mykonian have had their fair share of clueless moments as well.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I didn't even initially realise that the hammer vote had been cast on my initial read-through today.

Despite that, and the thread still being open, it doesn't look like Myko's going to offer anything at all. Scum flip imminent then.

[pieceofpecanpie]

(I'm going to initially proof-read posts more before I initially post them, so their initial read-through is more satisfying)

[pieceofpecanpie]

By the by, I didn't realise total ignorance was a town tell?

I thought it general practice for town to care more about reading through things carefully and scum to only do so up to the point of not incriminating themselves. On the whole I always considered scum to be blase towards what's going on/topics of discussion/claims etc.

Desp

Pasch seems pretty ignorant of those claims and probably also of Fish's claim, since he's either questioning the doc claim or just completely oblivious to it, so is this behaviour something you're calling a town tell for Pasch or a town tell in general? That's a really undesirable town trait to have all the same.