Open 573: C9++

[sthar8]

VOTE: nero

p sure the ic is scum

[sthar8]

@mod I thought you were gonna do limericks for vote counts? That flavor is stupid. I want limericks.

wgeurts- i need you to devote all of your mafia-energy to getting a goddamn avatar please.

my nero vote is now serious.

i am slightly perturbed by the low number of rvs votes on me.

[sthar8]

hey guyz can we stahp talking about age it makes me feel self-conscious cos I am a lot younger than most of you and don't have as much life experience.

whatever mollie add up all your hydras and you're older than everyone

Also didn't you say the opposite in Faith when TSO and I were scumtheatreing about him being a kid? Or is this nacho pretending? nacho's like 12, right?

@GuyInkamius- mostly jealous, but I expected RVS from mollie.

nero and monkey are good lynches atm, but it was easier to leave my vote on nero than CHECK THE VC and CLICK THE TAGS BUTTON and PREVIEW MY POST.

[sthar8]

I really like your sexy little dance.

[sthar8]

I don't care if you think I'm town.

But as an intellectual exercise: why would I refuse to explain my reasoning as scum?

[sthar8]

@nero- i'm wagoning for your reactions, i wanna see who cares about a wagon on you, i'm looking for opportunistic vote-hoppers, i'm waiting to expound until you've dug yourself a sufficient hole, or i think my reasoning should be obvious.

[sthar8]

why do you think wergets is scum?

[sthar8]

hey sthar

want to talk to me about giffy hydra for a sec?

I'm leaving in a minute, but sure.

@XXXXXX- no i do have a scumread on nero. Not a big one but it's there.

[sthar8]

Also wtf fox? what part of "here's why i'm not giving reasons" did you translate to "here are my reasons?"

[sthar8]

tth what are you thinking wrt deaf stare?

[sthar8]

^^^^^
at sthar

vigorously wrt wiggets and tepidly wrt gif

(i have a read on wrgots that i'm not sharing, but not on gif yet)

[sthar8]

Also wtf fox? what part of "here's why i'm not giving reasons" did you translate to "here are my reasons?"

@nero- i'm wagoning for your reactions, i wanna see who cares about a wagon on you, i'm looking for opportunistic vote-hoppers, i'm waiting to expound until you've dug yourself a sufficient hole, or i think my reasoning should be obvious.

Can someone else give me an opinion on this.

"I wont tell you why I seriously voted you"

"I voted you for reactions"

"Wait I still haven't given any reasons!"

Actually, if your post 154 wasn't providing reasons what was the point of it ? I literally cant see anything other than vague reasons for a serious vote.

You say you wont tell scum why you voted.

Are you calling me scum by not giving your "real" reasons?

reading comprehension is tech.

[sthar8]

oh hey tth. anti was impersonating you earlier.

[sthar8]

Just explain yourself itsn't that hard if you're town.

Not hard.

Irksome.

Having to read the thread to you is

so annoying

.

And I can't be bothered right now. But I'll have some free time later, so sit on your hands and be patient.

[sthar8]

Ok I guess it is hard for you.

What do you do professionally?

[sthar8]

Ok I guess it is hard for you.

What do you do professionally?

star how is this in any way shape or form relevant?

I need to know whether I'm addressing a spoiled child or an entitled prick.

[sthar8]

I think you need to find a better textbook

[sthar8]

In the meanwhile, I'd love to hear from sthar concerning his reads on Nero Cain and MonkeyMan.

woggerits has been all about the newbietells all game. Pretty obvious and clear newbie tells too. Like, newbietells 101. But I haven't seen anything scum-indicative from him. And Nero, at least, should be able to tell that wanting to no lynch and being afraid to vote are not scummy in the least

coming from someone without an avatar

. So, pretty basic low-hanging-fruit easy lynch hunting.

Not a whole lot, but certainly better than a random vote. And the immediate reaction of "omg reasons NAO!!!" tickled my funny parts. Hence my refusal to cooperate until more of the playerlist had posted.

As of right now, I'd be happy to lynch monkey or nero, especially since neither has been able to articulate what makes wogglydeegort scummy.


Monkey much more than Nero, since Nero actually has had a process, easy to fake though it is.

Almost done with work, more when I get home.

Yes, including the candyland nursery-school handholding for fox. Assuming he doesn't just

explode

from not getting his way RIGHT NOW DAMMIT.

[sthar8]

I'm typing right now. Don't die.

[sthar8]

although you might explain what you think a strawman is, just for the entertainment factor.

[sthar8]

OK fox, let's do this. Have you exploded yet?

Spoiler: Open if you have Fox-level reading skills

Your last line admits that you don't really have a scum read on Nero, and you are waiting to see if he drops one.

I don't think you and I are reading the same thread. I don't see anything in that post that implies this, no matter how you twist it.

"I wont tell you why I seriously voted you"

yes

"I voted you for reactions"

No. I never said or implied that.

"Wait I still haven't given any reasons!"

Sure, but you're implying a contradiction that doesn't exist. I had to point out that I hadn't given any reasons still because

you

were having trouble following the conversation.

Actually, if your post 154 wasn't providing reasons what was the point of it ? I literally cant see anything other than vague reasons for a serious vote.

read better. the word of the day is context. c-o-n-t-e-x-t. context.


I asked nero why i would refuse to explain as scum, he answered. Then he asked why I might refuse to explain as town, and I answered with five reasons I

might

do so. Not, you will notice, reasons to vote him in the first place. Not, obviously, the actual reasons I was withholding reasoning.

You say you wont tell scum why you voted.

I didn't, actually. Please fact check yourself before you spout fiction.

Are you calling me scum by not giving your "real" reasons?

no. is that something you found in your 'textbook?'

You need to understand that making petty demands based on your own failed understanding is goofy as shit. Following that with wildly inaccurate speculation that compounds your own errors is downright annoying. And when you start being annoying, pretty much everything else gets prioritized over you.

@Anti-heart I could get behind a dave wagon or a monkey wagon right now. I don't see deafnote being the play unless you see something more compelling, and nero's looking better.

I'm waiting for more limericks to move my vote.

There was something else I wanted to say, but I forgot what...

[sthar8]

"nero and monkey are good lynches atm, but it was easier to leave my vote on nero than CHECK THE VC and CLICK THE TAGS BUTTON and PREVIEW MY POST." – good lynches? Isn't it a bit strong on Page6?

"atm" stands for "at the moment." As in, if we were lynching RIGHT THEN, it should have been one of those two.

Also, why is it important to check the VC before voting for someone? The only reason for this I could imagine is if someone is near to lynch and I want to avoid derphammering them by accident.

This. I don't care to count up the votes, so I don't know if someone is near lynch. And IIRC there have been a couple new votes for dave and monkey in the last couple pages. Plus I want to look at wagon development; at this stage of the game a wagon made up of my townreads or scumreads will influence my opinions.

please, stop doing this! Mafia is a f-cking game, attack the posts, the cases, the votes or whatever but don't attack the players themselves. We've known each other for a while and I've never experienced such a thing from you before.

No. I'm attacking the behavior, and ridicule is a powerful behavior modification tool. I'm not interested in either capitulating or accommodating for fox, so it's better to get this out of the way now than to hand scum a free policy lynch later.

I'm sorry you've never met grumpy-sthar before, but it is definitely something that happens when someone acts aggressively and I'm on particular mood phases. There are players in the game who can testify to it being nonindicative of alignment, if you're worried about it.

I would like to echo the request to use hydra names and not the heads. And not use nicknames which have no relation to nick. And please refer to the same player the same way within your posts.

no.

so what do you call what anenien's doing right now?

Watching pidgeon porn, forming bad meta reads, and lurker hunting?

Lurker hunting and pushing easy lynches are not the same thing, though they can come from the same motivation. I tend to give the former a pass on day1 because it has a net benefit for the town.

Actually I need to go check the games I've played with anenenenin for snark and aggression.

Newbie tells are going to come from newbies regardless of their alignment. You are impling that this makes him town and that's like a real stretch.

No, I'm implying it makes him null. NOT towntelling doesn't make him scum, and NOT scumtelling doesn't make him town.

As for the people pushing him, there's very little difference between "pushing the newbie because he won't know how to defend himself" and "

bussing

the newbie because he won't know how to defend himself"

I do actually have a town read on him, but it's mostly unrelated to all the newbie tells.

p-edit oh good a fox post. one moment please.

[sthar8]

Fox, we should do this in spoilers because it's irrelevant to most of the players.

Spoiler:

Look here-

@nero- i'm wagoning for your reactions, i wanna see who cares about a wagon on you, i'm looking for opportunistic vote-hoppers, i'm waiting to expound until you've dug yourself a sufficient hole, or i think my reasoning should be obvious.

I did. It may surprise you, but I actually wrote that post as well. None of those words mean that I have no read on nero. I mean, I even tried reading every third word. It's just not there.

Look here-

@nero- i'm wagoning for your reactions, i wanna see who cares about a wagon on you, i'm looking for opportunistic vote-hoppers, i'm waiting to expound until you've dug yourself a sufficient hole, or i think my reasoning should be obvious.

Yes, that is a post I made. No, I never said or implied that I voted Nero for reactions.

wtf is this. It sounds so odd. "Here is why I might have voted you" Sounds like a scum throwing darts trying to get something to stick.

It's called a "conversation." Also a correction that I don't expect you to understand the nuance of: it was "here are some reasons I might not want you to know why I voted you" not "here are some reasons I might have voted you."

Vocabulary assignment- define and use in a sentence the following words:
Hypothetical
Potential
Strawman
Cause
Ambiguous

You are right about this. I misread your ambiguous post 149

What about that post is ambiguous?

I dont see how I have been demanding?

I don't care if you think I'm town.

But as an intellectual exercise: why would I refuse to explain my reasoning as scum?

I'm not scum explain it to me.

"Hey talk to me now even though i clearly misread your last post!"

Actually, if your post 154 wasn't providing reasons what was the point of it ? I literally cant see anything other than vague reasons for a serious vote.

You say you wont tell scum why you voted.

Are you calling me scum by not giving your "real" reasons?

"sthar's ignoring me so he must be scum. Answer my questions, even though I obviously have no idea what we're talking about!"

Just explain yourself itsn't that hard if you're town.

"IF YOU WERE TOWN you'd drop whatever you're doing to make sure

I

understand what you're talking about!"

Ok I guess it is hard for you.

"the only reason

I

wouldn't be your top priority is if you're scum!"

You had enough time to come back and post how stupid my questioning is but you never answered.

Answered what? Your vast misinterpretation of everything I've said? Damn right! When you start writing me a paycheck that can pay my bills, you can start complaining about how I spend my time. Until then, content yourself with learning to count as well as learning to read. I came back and said "I don't have time to answer your stupid questions right now, I will do so later" and your response was "Why haven't you answered my questions yet, you must be scum."

Kindly fuck off. Also add 'job' to your vocab assignment.

I bet I would be annoying to a scum.

You know, I bet you wouldn't. If I were scum I could take solace in the fact that your poor reading comprehension means I could do all sorts of manipulative shit without you catching on. But I'm town, and this just means that in addition to catching scum I have to listen to you whine about how you might literally die from attention starvation. But then again, if I were scum it would be a priority to crack whatever language it is you're speaking and that seems like it might be frustrating. So you might be right.

Are you saying you did have time to answer the question, but it was annoying? How is asking you to explain your odd posting annoying/demanding?

I'm saying that I had neither the time nor the inclination to deal with your massive misreading problem. And yes, repeated requests to respond to your wild theories based on a functional misunderstanding of the words I use is pretty damn annoying.

Also alot of your arguement against me has been strawman. I just dont see town doing this so much.

Please stop using that term if you're not going to do so correctly.

@ Anti- maybe but I'm busy being an ass. scumpool is currently {dave, monkey} and i need to fact check aneneninenen.

@wegurots- sink or swim time, boss. I have faith that you can engage and play this game. The only problems you've had so far are philosophical ones stemming from the fact that MS games tend to be better balanced than offsite games. There are several IC-qualified players in here who can answer any terminology or theory questions you have. Who do you think is scum?

[sthar8]

Flavor when I get around to it.

Your metaphors are moving and beautiful.

VOTE: monkey

let's do this for a while.

[sthar8]

sthar

do you have a pillow

i can cry into...?

i havent cut my beard yet.

Spoiler: Dearest Fox

No read on nero? Where is that coming from?

Your last line admits that you don't really have a scum read on Nero

From that.

You literally said you are wagoning for reactions.

I

literally

did not say that. Do you just skip every word you don't understand in my posts? How can there be that many of them?

How does what you said there mean "i'm wagoning for your reactions, i wanna see who cares about a wagon on you, i'm looking for opportunistic vote-hoppers, i'm waiting to expound until you've dug yourself a sufficient hole, or i think my reasoning should be obvious."

It has to do with those words in the homework you didn't do.

More strawman, and backtracking.

What?
1. you still don't know what a strawman is
2. backtracking? my opinion hasn't changed!

You tell me a real answer to the question and I wont call it ambiguous.

a real answer to what question? I've answered every insane thing you've asked, and that post wasn't even directed at you.

No you fuck off. I could give a fuck about your real life. Paycheck? Get that shit out of here. Your a real Bitch for trying to put my posts in that light.

1. Could or could not? They do not mean the same thing.
2. Do you not know what a paycheck is? Some people work for a living, and spend some portion of their day completing tasks for others. In return they are given money, usually in check form. While engaging in such an activity, it is entirely reasonable that a person might have time to type "i'll get to your dumb, annoying questions later" but not a page-long essay trying to understand exactly how the educational system failed you.
3. I'd like to dwell on this for a moment:

Your a real Bitch

Wow. Just wow. That's adorable.

Leaving aside the obvious criticisms, like "your vs you're" and the misogyny inherent in your word choice, that capitalization is a thing of beauty. It betrays a certain awkwardness, as though your inner monologue could not settle on whether to use a curse. Tentatively you chose one, not quite sure of it's appropriateness. But was it severe enough? Would I even notice it? How agonizing! Maybe...yes. Just a little emphasis to make sure I know this isn't a casual slur. The "B" means "business!"

Have you never called someone a bitch before?

I'm so glad we could all be here for this moment.

Back to the game.Why are you pushing that I am rushing you? What if I am? I think you are scum. Big deal. Should I put a please at the end of every post so your feelings dont get hurt, and you start calling names again?[/i][/b]

bitch, please.

Again, how is explaining what you said your self so hard and time consuming? Like I said you had time to lay plenty of strawman.

five words is

less than

ten words

But I am.

Also, do I not remember the definition of straw man argument?

A fewww times I been around that track.

poor gwen.

Are you saying that GrayFox may be policy lynched later?

I'm saying I don't want someone who confuses "as" vs "to," "might" vs "am," and "could" vs "could not" in LYLO. And since his conclusions are just insane, it'll be hard to determine his alignment. But I don't want to waste a lynch, so I see a good place for a vig to express some utility.

Can you link two games you were in from scratch? A one where you were town and another where you were scum.

Sure. Do you want ones with happy-sthar or grumpy sthar?

302 – Why?

woggerits has been all about the newbietells all game. Pretty obvious and clear newbie tells too. Like, newbietells 101. But I haven't seen anything scum-indicative from him. And Nero, at least, should be able to tell that wanting to no lynch and being afraid to vote are not scummy in the least coming from someone without an avatar. So, pretty basic low-hanging-fruit easy lynch hunting.

Not a whole lot, but certainly better than a random vote. And the immediate reaction of "omg reasons NAO!!!" tickled my funny parts. Hence my refusal to cooperate until more of the playerlist had posted.

As of right now, I'd be happy to lynch monkey or nero, especially since neither has been able to articulate what makes wogglydeegort scummy.


Monkey much more than Nero, since Nero actually has had a process, easy to fake though it is.

Why are you using the word bussing here?

I mean, he voted no lynch when there's was no good reason to and then fear mongered that we "might lynch a special". Having a gut scum reaction over that is natural 'cause none of that is pro-town at all. So you and Dave and whomever saying "OH WAIT DON'T LYNCH A NEWBIE" when this could easily come from newb scum as well kinda looks like scum knowing that he's town.

Why do you have a town read on him?

You said that I was using the newbie-tells to imply that he's town. I'm pointing out that my argument of "you're pushing a newbie for null-newbie tells" is salient whether he's town or partner to one of you.

Voting no lynch just means that wherever he's from the setups are poorly balanced. It becomes a breaking strategy to no-lynch until the powers can solve the game. Similarly, the fear of lynching a power role. In an unbalanced setup,

avoiding

a PR lynch is much more important than lynching scum. That is both a natural logical conclusion and common knowledge, so the 'natural reaction' shouldn't be "this is scum" but "this is newbie." The push was bad.

The townread on wogurt comes from his insistence on his play. If he were scum, his attempt to push no lynch was an attempt to buy towncred and/or fit in. A negative reaction is evidence that he should change tack, but rather than back down and 'learn' from his mistakes he insisted on his no-vote well past a reasonable point. That suggests that he was genuine in believing that his actions were protown. Hence, light townread.

I've been seeing quite a few walls up to this point and it's starting to get annoying.

Spoiler: Here's how much I care about that

If sthar could tell me more about his vote on MonkeyMan, I would appreciate it

Sometime tomorrow. It's 1am and I need to go to bed. Remind me if I forget.

@mollie- hi mollie. what are we doing?

[sthar8]

stavrogin has apparently been in bed for the past 30 hours

hawt

[sthar8]

(1) @Sthar8, I'm still waiting for your links.

oh yeah, i forgot. doing it now.

Town-
Micro 264 I got pretty mean to RedCoyote in this one.

Mini 1483 I misread TSO pretty severely and made him much angrier than I intended to on Day 1.

Scum-
Open 536 I know you said no replaces but I replace

a lot

. This game I replaced in early day 1 and got grumpy both faked and real.

Mini 1504 I'm part of the Lying Cat hydra and I think I signed most of my posts. I tend to be less aggressive when hydra'd with Jingle so it's a little toned down, but I definitely also had an all-caps 70% cursing spoilered rant about why posting frequency is a bullshit scumtell.

I promise that grumpiness is not an alignment tell for me.

[sthar8]

Nacho, darling.

you're acting like there's no progression in my reads, and like you don't know what pressure is. Both of these things should be pretty obvious to you.

whoagurt looks like new town. Monkey does not. You put too much stock in reputation as a game mechanic.

"Waah you're all dumb for not liking my case" is not a towntell. Ask mollie about Faith Plus One, she'll remember.

Other than that, I think we agree on our reads lists.

[sthar8]

What constitutes new town and new scum?

Your role pm, obviously.

(okay I couldn't resist. I'm doing other things right now but I'll get into this later. Remind me if I forget!)

[sthar8]

back from ridiculous work weekend, catching up.

[sthar8]

So I fell asleep reading last night. I'm for reals catching up right now. From the top of this page:

sthar goes on strategic v/la's as scum?

No. I

lurk

strategically, but faking V/LA would be disingenuous at best. More importantly, Jingle views lying about V/LA as cheating and he'd fill my car with spiders if I did it in his game. Also hamstringing one game for advantage in another is actually cheating, and verifying my site activity level is pretty easy. I had to cut back last week because I was pukey-sick, then I ran a Magic ptq on Sunday which involved a 13 hour workday on Friday and a 14 hour workday on Sunday. Right now I'm desperately trying to catch up on everything despite being sniffles-sick and dead tired. You guys win my attention because short deadline.

[sthar8]

(frustration at people for not listening to reads is still a towntell, scum being able to fake towntells don't destroy the validity of them)

I'm saying it's so trivially easy to fake as to be null. But that's largely academic since:

This game lacks nacho whiteknighting the living hell out of monkeyman

VOTE: Death Stare

This implies you KNOW I am town. Only 1 group of people can be certain about other people's alignments and that is scum.

Game over.

hey sthar did you know this post is also town???
I know this post is also town

Is actually spot on.

Also this:

I don't have an update because I am trying not to just see everything they do as scummy. I will look at them again: 1. if a wagon starts to form or 2. Tomorrow. I know at this point I will just confirmation bias myself into thinking they are scummy.

---

saying his vote on me was for reactions. That seemed kinda silly to me.

Look, foxclone, reading can confirm what I said as "I

could have refused to give reasoning

because I was looking for reactions to my vote" not "I voted for reactions."

I voted because you were pursuing an unreasonable scumread against an easy mislynch.

What do you think of him calling me scummy for finding wegurts scummy while simultaneously accusing me of bussing him? Seems damned if I do, damned if I don't.

How?

shtar is still posting on the site and in site chat.

If you put the same amount of effort into sitechat and discussion forums as you do actual games, you have a problem.

eta: holy shit star has still has not posted.

Can maybe read the mod posts mollie fuck.

I do not like 5SOP's posting one bit.

Nacho looks town. Mollie look

ed

town, but her push on me reads like an aryan nations press release. They're not the play today though, so pick something else.

Will not lynch in {Anen, Heartless, whygorts, monkey} because I don't want to lynch town.

Will not lynch in {nero, TSO, nachomollie} for various reasons.

I'd prefer to lynch out of {grayfox, dave} but that might not be entirely sane.

Maybe mtd but probably not. I'm bad at reading him and he was just v/la. Maybe could compromise on anybody not mentioned, I'll think about them overnight.

[sthar8]

Will not lynch in {Anen, Heartless, whygorts, monkey} because I don't want to lynch town.

Will not lynch in {nero, TSO, nachomollie} for various reasons.

I'd prefer to lynch out of {grayfox, dave} but that might not be entirely sane.

there's a lack of

massive and death stare in these lists.

also, i'd like to hear the "various reasons" for tso

massive is all cases that I understand but don't agree with, which is not strongly indicative.

guyinkamius I'm waffly on. I

really

didn't like the whole interaction with nacho, but I've incorrectly scumread GIF for not being heavily engaged before. But he might be an intersectional scumread of my townreads, but I can't tell because nobody's pushing it hard. So...

TSO is a strong player who isn't quite in the swing of the game yet. I understand his paranoia on me and mollie even though I obviously don't agree. Plus there are like five players in this game who are keeping me excited and engaged despite not really having any strong reads, and I'm not ready to get rid of any of them yet.

@ nero I moved on from scumreading you like forever ago. Your various reasons overlap with TSO's quite a bit.

[sthar8]

No. Although we might get an extension because the mod might have a hangover.

VOTE: massive

[sthar8]

T can you vote massive please? We have an hour left.

[sthar8]

VOTE: massive

will also accept dave and 50 shades votes

all other votes are inferior and will be made fun of by me

VOTE: massive

i'm pretty pissed at all of you right now. Seriously, fuck all of you.

[sthar8]

YES! TSO dying is the best thing that's going to happen to this thread.

why? Other than it being clearly the wrong nightkill?

[sthar8]

VOTE: massive

will also accept dave and 50 shades votes

all other votes are inferior and will be made fun of by me

VOTE: massive

i'm pretty pissed at all of you right now. Seriously, fuck all of you.

Welcome back, I guess? Why the angst?

Hi. Are you town?

[sthar8]

Absolutely.

Were you voting for a real wagon at the end of the day?

VOTE: massive

will also accept dave and 50 shades votes

all other votes are inferior and will be made fun of by me

VOTE: massive

i'm pretty pissed at all of you right now. Seriously, fuck all of you.

Why are you pissed at us?

I meant the whole game actually. But I could probably absolve anyone voting for massive at the end of the day.

Also, why are you voting massive? I recall you responded to Antihero's question about your read on massive by saying this:

massive is all cases that I understand but don't agree with, which is not strongly indicative.

How does a massive vote to start today follow?

Did you miss the end of the day yesterday? The deadline wagon that we couldn't push through? He pretty much has to die now.

after the faith game all I can say is

this looks fake as shit.

But not after NY171 or OC?
I'm sorry little miss "lurk out the deadline on a shitty wagon," I can't hear you over the gushing sound of shit spewing from where the players are supposed to be in your slot.

your slot is town cos of anti. but do you wanna like, yanno interact with us or something? cos your avoidance on your own while calling us scum would normally make me go apeshit.

maybe i can help you out here because there's too much tension here that doesn't need to be here

TTH doesn't really trust what she doesn't understand. that's just the way she is in general, btw. and she doesn't understand your sthar push. i'm trying to explain, but i don't think i'm doing a very good job.

iirc, she asked you about it before yesterday ended, but it was too close to the buzzer for you to answer.

i didn't really want to shut TTH down before she gets happy with a townread on you , buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, i think you're town so it's all just an exercise in absurdity anyway

it is a meta read and I am thinking tso is probs town cos of he started seeing the same thing. I thought he SHOULD have seen it earlier but meh.

I think star's v/la is genuine in that his availability will be unreliable and unpredictable but has already been noted he HAS been around and HAS said in the past that active lurking is a scum strategy of his so I do NOT think that his v/la is a lie cos he is defos not like that I just think that town!star would be posting more when he had the opportunity and he isn't.

Hi mollie.

Get your shit together.

I think I made a post just like this is OC.

Thanks for your time.

Badmeta and skimming and hydra-excuses are things that mollie does as scum.

{massive, mollie, dave} are good votes right now.

[sthar8]

Why would Massive *have* to die just 'cause his wagon didn't go through? Yes, there was a good chance he'd get wagoned up and be the days lynch but there's no "we have to lynch him."

I mean, there are other ways to resolve "could scum not find a cw or do we legitimately have 8 VIs in this game." I'm all ears.

[sthar8]

consequence of no one being on?

i mean, if that's true, that implicates: wgeurts

no that's bullshit. We should have been consolidating looong before it mattered if someone could be on in a 12 hour window.

Don't push that 'winds of fate' crap, it's either half the people in the game being idiots or scum dodging the lynch.

[sthar8]

if you think that I am scum then why shld I "get my shit together"? that is the kind of stuff you tell players you think are town.

Because frankly it's embarrassing, town or scum.

what is "OC"? you have only seen my scum once, while I on the other hand have stared at your scum game multiple times so I would LIKE to think I am at at least somewhat competent at spotting it.

I would like to think that too, but it's clearly not true.

By the way, OC was Organic Chemistry, where you were scum and did the same skimming bullshit. We were scum together briefly in Street Racers, where you did the same skimming bullshit. And you beat me as scum in Bowser 3, where you...

You've seen me as scum in Faith, Antihero, and Street Racers. And you want me to believe that you're this bad at reading me? No.

so if I am using "bad meta" then what exactly is tso using who is using the same tell?

TSO was misapplying meta because he thought I was lurking rather than just V/LA. Then TSO was paranoid because he thought I might be buddying him. Then TSO put aside his paranoia to help me try for a lynch at day's end. Then TSO died and flipped town, which makes this point and the one you tried in 1127 patent nonsense.

Please at least pretend you're reading the game.

what? cat got your tongue?

See, this idiom cannot be effectively applied like that. Of course I couldn't respond

in the middle of your post

, implying anything else is pretty silly. And when I have a response, like I do now, this shit gets thrown back in your face.

and did you reeeeaally just say we were lurking out a lynch?

Yup. Your last post before the deadline was more than 24 hours beforehand. And all it was doing was explaining why you weren't voting for MTD. You and nacho understand why no lynching is incredibly anti-town, but you made no attempt to avert it.

lol. the

irony

.

Don't use that word if you aren't going to use it properly. Also that's a horse laugh, and ceding the point.

we will vote massive when we are ready that 1 post looked like he was trying to appease us. I just wanna talk to nacho and get a list out first.

How can you possibly believe I'm turbobussing with plenty of viable wagons? The cognitive dissonance here is mind-blowing.

@Antihero- You hydra'd with her. Tell me this is town mollie with a straight face.

[sthar8]

All I see are words and not really a legit response. So lets try again, Massive didn't die yesterday, how does that mean he "has" to die today.

If massive is town, we handed the scum a mislynch yesterday and THEY DIDN"T TAKE IT. I'm 100% sure of 2/5 of the wagon, and like 80% sure of another 2/5. So the explanation isn't that all the scum were already on the wagon. Which means there's a good chance that Massive is scum, I was the counterwagon, and the scum chose to no lynch instead of bussing.

It's not 100% but it's strong enough to warrant action.

[sthar8]

I think sthar is saying he's 100% on 2/5 of the wagon and 80% sure on another 2/5 of the wagon being town. I'm assuming his point is that the wagon yesterday was mostly town, thus affording scum an opportunity for an easy, low accountability Day 1 lynch. We ended up with no lynch, so that implies there are people with incentive to not vote massive and instead passively let a no lynch occur. This implies that massive is scum.

Oh my god she speaks the same language as me.

I'm in a mood, so I'm not doing any of this tonight. Maybe tomorrow.

[sthar8]

I don't know what you mean by hydra excuses.

Spoiler: these

Sthar is Mollie's jam which I promised I'd get around to but haven't quite made it to yet.

I just wanna talk to nacho and get a list out first.

okay, nacho called and I was talking to him cos he is much more important than any dumb game!

we didn't talk about the game sorry, we were planning on when we are going to see each other. we will get to this real soon I promise.

I would just like to inform people that nacho fell asleep on me again. how rude

Basically all the "I'm not talking about whatever because I called nacho and we didn't talk about mafia!" is empty and useless and excuses for avoiding things.

I don't think "sthar tends to active lurk as scum" is a bad premise when analyzing the majority of player's meats on this site.

The argument is that I lurk tactically for advantage as scum. a) I haven't been active lurking, I was actually just v/la for a while and b) mollie started pushing me for being absent while I was V/LA and didn't let up when I came back. She knows my meats, she knows I can be inconsistent sometimes. She knows it's not a scumtell, and in fact she knows that I'm more likely to be super active as scum.

And skimming is something that everyone occasionally does: where exactly has Mollie skimmed and misread something of yours?

Sure, it's also a sign that you're not engaged in the game. Mollie has a harder time engaging as scum. I think it's cause she's so sweet.

And really? Not being aware of the nightkill?

[sthar8]

I thought about it and I think your theory is flawed, sthar.

Maybe but mollie and nacho are both proficient enough to know that we needed to start consolidating. What did they do instead? Stop posting. I think they were hoping that my wagon would be the deadline compromise, shitty as it was.

[sthar8]

i'm not doing this today. i'll either be back tomorrow or i'll find a hydra partner or i'll replace.

[sthar8]

You guys could lynch me and then you could talk about how mollie's scum.

[sthar8]

The argument is that I lurk tactically for advantage as scum. a) I haven't been active lurking, I was actually just v/la for a while and b) mollie started pushing me for being absent while I was V/LA and didn't let up when I came back. She knows my meats, she knows I can be inconsistent sometimes. She knows it's not a scumtell, and in fact she knows that I'm more likely to be super active as scum.

She attacked you while you were being V/LA for posting elsewhere, which I don't find unreasonable if you're known for tactical lurking.

Are you even talking to each other? I was posting 'elsewhere?' Are you fucking kidding me? Mollie's case is that Nero saw me posting in sitechat while I was V/LA. Because, you know, there is NO FUCKING WAY I would have time to post dick jokes in sitechat but NOT analyze game content and make posts. Right?

@TTH- Are we still lynching me? Or are we just gonna ignore me all day and talk about how I'm CLEARLY scum?

[sthar8]

I dont ever poke first. I'm def in a bad mood, but if you have questions I can be civil.

You're prob town though.

[sthar8]

but the starella wagon is so beautiful

VOTE: wguerts

(I am doing this without nacho looking)

L-1

can you nightkill me tonight?

[sthar8]

NEW TINFOIL!

Scum have given up on Massive and Sthar and Mollie are distancing from each other.



but Massive is still scum, there's like zero town motivation for him to claim early. And now he's intentionally playing oblivious why that is bad.

go me! You guys think this theory might be true?

I also have a p strong desire to kill Dave today. Still not town reading Massive and Mollie was somewhat reluctant to vote Massive despite clearly calling them scum so I think its a good chance that its a scumbuddy. + Claiming early like that had no town motivation despite what he says.

Dave/massive and maybe sthar are my preferred lynch pool.

"Hey I thought that mollie might be trying to mislynch a guy!" "We should lynch the guy I thought she was trying to mislynch!"

Do you even listen to yourself talk?

[sthar8]

Anti. I'm going to murder you.

My previous theory (obviously) needs a reworking because I went terribly wrong somewhere I'm just not sure where. I'm tempted to call Nero Cain and massive town from that flip, though.

I expect an apology.

[sthar8]

Monkeyman is scum.

Discuss.

-Ank

very possibly.

[sthar8]

oh also no roleclaims please.

[sthar8]

just in case anybody was thinking about it.

[sthar8]

Also everybody on the yoggreuts wagon now has NO proficiency cred. That was fucking awful and you should feel bad.

[sthar8]

Scum have given up on Massive and Sthar and Mollie are distancing from each other.

Dave/massive and maybe sthar are my preferred lynch pool.

[sthar8]

but Massive is still scum, there's like zero town motivation for him to claim early. And now he's intentionally playing oblivious why that is bad.

Oh i guess I blocked this out. You think that mollie/me/massive are a team and were just looking for a

bus that would stick

? How does that make sense?

[sthar8]

thank you for retyping the post that I clearly don't understand the parsing of. That's really fucking helpful.

What do you mean by 'scum have given up on massive?'

[sthar8]

Anti. I'm going to murder you.

My previous theory (obviously) needs a reworking because I went terribly wrong somewhere I'm just not sure where. I'm tempted to call Nero Cain and massive town from that flip, though.

I expect an apology.

hey sthar

yeah, screw you

tth was right about mollie this whole time and i pooh-poohed it. it's my fault, not hers.

even if it was, she doesn't owe you shit. it's part of the game.

(And I don't think 50 Shades is either.)

[...]

There is an explanation for the day's occurrences.

MTD, wgeurts, and sthar8 are scum.

when you sober up you'll realize that I'm digging at both of you for getting taken in by mollie's obvscum bullshit-baffling yesterday.

[sthar8]

can you two talk in english please?

[sthar8]

THEN WHY ARE YOU DOING IT FFS

IT IS NOT TIME FOR CLAIMS YET

THIS IS ALL HORRIFICALLY ANTI-TOWN

[sthar8]

Agreed, with one exception.

If anyone's a Vigilante, please claim it!

By doing so we could rule out the possibility of an SK, plus that would solve a plenty of things detailed below.

I'll think about it but I don't think it's helpful right now.

Thanks four pointing that out, Captain Obvious! ^_^
You should have explained how awful that wagon was during Day2.
Before you do so, I'm telling this: you needn't explain who started that wagon, guess what, I can remember that too well.

I was busy with actual caught scum and listening to everyone tell me how stupid and bad at this game I am. Besides, I already told everybody how stupid that was on day1.
[/quote]

[sthar8]

There hasn't been and I feel like that's a big missing puzzle piece. He was scumreading Nero Cain at the end of the day, but he had scumreads on both 50 Shades and sthar that he sort of went back on right before the day ended.

i assumed it was because he was obtown/ we have a great track record of reading each other. he was never gonna be a viable lynch and while he was alive neither was i.

[sthar8]

but thats p biased

[sthar8]

50 shades makes no sense for a vig kill imo.

unless we have a vig with a brain.

[sthar8]

I don't understand this post.

my logic regarding the nightkill assumes that mollie's play was centered around what she knows of me. It is fairly heavily biased in that I am assuming that I was a primary motivator for scum.

We are not discussing claims further. I will not be explaining why. We can discuss the theory behind that in post if you like, but for now the exceedingly high probability that I am town combined with the logic of "don't give info to scum" should suffice.

I need to do some setup math, so I'm not willing to end the day yet. But I'm pretty sure my vote will be going to death stare.

[sthar8]

Exceedingly high probability? That's a slip. Townies don't say they are high probability, they say they are town.
Trying to find a role you could claim that would fit the setup?

I'm saying that from Anen's perspective, he should be about 95% sure that I'm town. Obviously he can't be 100% sure.

Try to keep up.

Or, you could continue to tell me about my own diction and how it reflects my state of mind. You

clearly

have the experience and proficiency to do that. It

definitely

doesn't make you look like more of an idiot than your pointlessly anti-town role speculation.

As to my role, I've not really been hiding what I'm gonna claim. It should be pretty obvious to anybody paying attention.

[sthar8]

And it's clear that the 50Shades kill was done by the Mafia.

I uh.... what?

[sthar8]

K, just making sure.

[sthar8]

Would it be anti-town for Death Stare to say where they think the kill went?

No. Scum already have that information, so speculating on it doesn't give them anything new.

[sthar8]

OK, this is taking too long. This might mean there really are more town roles in play, in which there could be a chance DS is town.
I'm working and don't have time to post my entire SK case all at once. I'll start by crumbing. It's helpful to see if anyone else sees it without the full evidence.

Who was extremely pissed off at the start of D2? Who was especially pissed off at mollie? Who said that mollie and TSO are the best people at reading them from meta? Who used a AtE to try to deflect a case where their scum meta might apply. (where SK would be included in scum) One person meets all of these statements. One person with motive to kill TSO and then retaliate against mollie after having bulletproof popped.

He's talking about me.

Does this player have a tendency to lose it and "emotion slip" when things don't go their way?

I've faked it a few times as scum and town, and I tend to get nasty when people being stupid overlaps with meatworld stuff.

You're assuming that 1)my sk meta is the same as my scum meta, which is false as the objectives of the two and therefore the methods taken to achieve them are fundamentally different, 2)i would know as sk if my bp shot was used, which I don't believe is true, and 3) that I was angry with mollie rather than just scumreading her and 4)that I would make an emotion-based kill at all, but specifically on her but

not

on greyfox, who actually pissed me off.

For the record, this looks nothing like my SK game. It looks nothing like my scumgame either, mollie was bullshitting and making up meta.

But don't worry, if your possibly insane theory is correct, the scum know who the SK is and it is correct play for them to kill that person tonight. So if you were right, I would die. (unless, of course, there is only one scum remaining and we lynch them today.)

@heartless- get back in here.

[sthar8]

sure. setup math is nonindicative and I think DS needs to die for informational purposes at the very least.

If we don't finish the scumteam here, SK prob dies tonight, which is good.

VOTE: Death Stare

[sthar8]

hi nero

[sthar8]

how's your cult going?

[sthar8]

Can't be the SK.
p-edit that

[sthar8]

Why do you think so?

Because in this situation the SK is clearly and obviously the biggest threat to the mafia win condition, and if they tried to kill it and popped the BP, they know who it is. The scum player would have to be actually terrible at this game to not kill the SK.

You can't talk your way out of being chosen for a nightkill, and the SK doesn't care about reads on you. No matter your fakeclaim, it doesn't stop the kill. If scum have a roleblocker they want to be using it to prevent their own kill from being blocked rather than just keeping the SK locked down.

It is far and away the highest EV for scum.

[sthar8]

are you even reading my posts?

[sthar8]

Also that's the highest risk play for both the SK and the scum.

[sthar8]

gogo gadget massclaim!

[sthar8]

naw, i don't think there are three town prs.

well you and sthar can claim so we can figure it out

or i can just sit here and play with my dick for a bit while ranting about a million possible things

this makes me want to stall so i can watch.

1. How the hell am I claiming last? Antihero at least should know what a terrible idea that is.

2. I'm blindingly and obviously a VT. If you need me to point out why, I can laters.

3. I still have boys and they're higher priority than you guys. I'll work out setup maths tomorrow.

[sthar8]

Or my block still worked.
VOTE: sthar

are you actually high?

[sthar8]

Please feel free to justify that with something that's not insane.

In the meantime, setup math concludes that dave and monkey are confirmed. starting a reread with that in mind.

[sthar8]

No, it makes no sense in context. We absolutely have a serial killer, which means that you two are conftown.

[sthar8]

nokills are a maybe, but mollie's death is the clincher

[sthar8]

VOTE: massive

will also do brian

Talk to me or I'm voting you.

Why do you have Nero as town? I have a doubt there.

@ everyone- I'd like to see suspect pools from all of you. I currently have heartless and Anen as town, leaving me with {brian, massive, nero} as my lynch pool. TellTaleHero's silence is making me paranoid though, they might switch spots with nero.

@goon- I'm gonna guess you no-killed to avoid getting caught by the blocker. This is

catastrophically

bad play. Given that you know who the SK is, or at least the SK has reason to believe you do, it is now that person's top priority to find and kill you since you can stop them from winning at any point. If either scum faction is to win at this point, they

need

to eliminate the other first. Note that Monkey,

the only person

who can stop you from using your roles is

still alive

. That means that the serial killer is mafia hunting. Leading a lynch on the serial killer will also not work, because you will have to expose yourself to do so. If you want a chance at winning this game, stop hoping the town will do your job for you and nut up.

[sthar8]

prod received and ignored. I'm waiting on the replacement.

[sthar8]

there's no votecount on this page

[sthar8]

I promise not to post at all on saturday. That might extend to sunday depending how tired I am.

[sthar8]

I promise not to post at all on saturday. That might extend to sunday depending how tired I am.

Will you promise to post plenty on Friday as compensation?

not unless AA9 catches up/ night ends before then.

[sthar8]

but so far I'm leaning flipping Sthar. Like, if he's town then his play is just extraordinarily bad.

I was gonna go through your iso to point out that I should be practically confirmed from how protown i've been and to compare your shitshow then tell you to eat a dick, but I realized that you're probably scum.

VOTE: Nero

BTW, various scums: one or both of you is extraordinarily, pants-shittingly bad at this. Either the mafia is terrible at threat assessment, or the SK blows at EV analysis, or both. Get your thumbs out of your asses, this is NOT a prisoner's dilemma.

[sthar8]

@Dead People- You're all dayvigs and Jingle's an idiot.

[sthar8]

Well dead thread was predictable though TSO whining about how much of a shitty player he is gets old.

Stop

[sthar8]

Congrats, TTHero. You rode the town's shitshow from an autoloss to a win. Absolutely deserved.

Apologies for the replace, sudden onset full time parenting claimed me. Second time I've ever replaced, super embarrassed.

Btw, wogorrats is 15. I know what I'm doing.

Mobile right now, more later.