Newbie 1568: Cleveland Mafia - Game Over

[Jake from State Farm]

sup

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't think I have ever seen an IC give advice to mafia before.

[Jake from State Farm]

no, I just never seen it done before.

[Jake from State Farm]

yes it does and if I ever IC again (not likely) i'll do the same.

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: dodge

I have seen scum claim scum before in rvs

[Jake from State Farm]

Why did you claim scum? What were you trying to accomplish?

P.edit - no mine isnt

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh sorry misread that, yes mine is non rvs

[Jake from State Farm]

Why nether?

[Jake from State Farm]

that still doesn't explain why you chose nether, or why you unvoted just cause you got a little blow back from house

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: shortcut

[Jake from State Farm]

ugh I guess

I don't like fact that he basically passed responsibility off to the IC for his own actions.

[Jake from State Farm]

Prod dodge, busy weekend for me. Be back Tuesday

[Jake from State Farm]

re: policy lynches

What do you guys think about Lynch the Silent?

it's not very reliable. I have see PRs get lynched cause they thought lurking to avoid detection was a good idea. IMO most scum(certainly are exceptions to this one, me being one of them) would rather kinda post just enough to look active but not too much to risk saying anything dumb but that isn't reliable enough either. I find it a better strategy is to just try and engage a lurker, ask him questions and try and have a conversation with them. If they are true lurkers they will hopefully get replaced due to inactivity

[Jake from State Farm]

At this time I will

UNVOTE: dodgy

While I still feel the post was anti-town, policy lynches have no place in Newbie games. His other posts are mostly null.

@Mod: Can we get a vote count please? And any word on the replacement?

hey jackal, you are an SE and you are currently the lowest poster in the game aside from the guy who never picked up his role pm yet you are posting elsewhere on site. what gives?

Do you have any Scum reads? Y/N
Do you have any town reads? Y/N

what is your current read on dodgy since your last post was unvoting him. Do you think he's scummy, townie, or null?

[Jake from State Farm]

I lean slightly scum because I have seen scum claim scum before, but I am pretty sure I have seen town do it so i don't want to lynch him based off that.


I kinda wish these replacements would be found cause I think the game is kinda stalling. Nobody is really going on the agressive, I tried but the guy I was attacking flaked and is getting replaced...

[Jake from State Farm]

VOTE: Jackal711

I don't buy the convenient scumread from an experienced player.

are you referring to his dodgy scumread?

[Jake from State Farm]

Hello attractive peoples.

I already read most of the stuff yesterday when contemplating whether to replace in, will go through everything again before I post comprehensive reads.

For now, there is almost definitely at least one scum between dodgy and Netherspite.

Good day to you all.

And heyyyy it's Jake. You replaced my slot in Newbie 1506 when I was shipped off to teach English in a Taiwanese aboriginal village.

why is one scum in dodgy and netherspite?

good on you man, that has to be an awesome experience

[Jake from State Farm]

So... House.

I forget the term for when a player constantly throws around his vote in order to get reactions, but that's exactly what you're doing right now. It may just be your mode of scumhunting, but I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

Constantly voting and re-voting muddies the waters in an already dank-ass situation that doesn't need any further mystification.

I think that as an IC, you realize newbies might have a hard time keeping up with your relatively high volume of posts, and therefore you're playing it up even further to disguise any plausible scumminess... all while appearing extremely pro-town with all your questioning and accusing.

VOTE: House

If I'm wrong, please enlighten.

I like this post, while it's not a reliable tell at all I can understand the thought process

[Jake from State Farm]

A couple questions:

Shortcut had two votes on him, and I am his replacement. Do I start with those two votes on me, or are those votes nullified now?

...Which is scum af....

What does the "af" mean? You put it in there twice, and I don't see it in the terms on the wiki, so I am assuming its an abbreviation of some sort?

I removed my vote and I can't expect you to answer for your predecessor, I will keep an eye on you to see if you can change my mind though

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake What do you think about this whole conversation?

I kind of agree with nether that if it's a person's playstyle then it's kind of hard to deem alignment from it. regardless of his alignment he would make that argument so for me he still remains null.

[Jake from State Farm]

Interesting analysis, House. fakespeare vs. Netherspite does read as town vs. scum to me but I'm not yet confident enough on my read of both to determine which is which.

I will hold my vote for now, but it most likely will be on one of those two.

Personally I don't think it's TvS. I rather think fakespeare is a townie who is just playstyle clashing with me.

So why engage in a back and forth with him? Why.not just ignore him and.move on?

[Jake from State Farm]

The thought process isn't flawed, to lots of people vote hopping is scummy, especially noobs, I know cause I used to get shit for it when I was a noob, then I used to scum read people for it later. To someone newer, what you did is scummy. To an experienced player, not so much

[Jake from State Farm]

The thought process isn't flawed, to lots of people vote hopping is scummy, especially noobs, I know cause I used to get shit for it when I was a noob, then I used to scum read people for it later. To someone newer, what you did is scummy. To an experienced player, not so much

You realize you just described why his logic was flawed, right?

The fact he was wrong doesn't make it right. That's moonlogic.

But being wrong doesn't mean he's scum, so your logic is flawed. He's wrong yes, but him being wrong makes him more likely town, not scum

[Jake from State Farm]

And actually makes you scummier imo

[Jake from State Farm]

Scumreading someone for claiming scum in RVS is silly. Town does it quite often, and Jake is experienced enough to know that.

Not sure how I missed this one.

You can't just blanket say that, cause my experience and your experience could be different(and obviously is different). I don't think I've seen town claim scum in rvs before (I do remember tip saying he's scum but his role on says he's town but that wasn't in rvs and wasn't remotely similar to what happened here), but I know for a fact I've seen scum do it in rvs, actually I'm pretty sure I've seen it twice. My experience obviously is based off games I've played in.

[Jake from State Farm]

FYI: Scum loves giving null reads because it keeps their options open.

town also likes to give them when they aren't sure about their read on a player.

[Jake from State Farm]

Well town shouldn't throw out all their reads anyway

[Jake from State Farm]

I'd also like to hear his explanation

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: jackal

[Jake from State Farm]

Get on this fakespeare wagon

But I don't think he's scum

[Jake from State Farm]

oh and if fake flips scum, id probably be looking at jake, brick or cosmic,

Based on what exactly?

[Jake from State Farm]

oh and if fake flips scum, id probably be looking at jake, brick or cosmic,

Based on what exactly?

based on the fact i dont think scum would be bussing at this point? so id look at people not on the lynch

You realize being wrong =/= scum buddy right? And I've seen scum bus their partner day 1 before, sure its not optimal play but its been done before

[Jake from State Farm]

Why isn't fakespeare swinging yet?

Could be the fact that he's probably not scum but idk

[Jake from State Farm]

Been hella busy on short notice lately, and something came up that will prevent me from posting substantially until Sunday afternoon. Apologies.

This is his most recent post in the game, made on Friday. It is now Tuesday. He is at L-1.

We have just over a day left until deadline.

Come.
On.
People.

I don't feel we can get any more out of day 1 at this point. We should allow time for a claim, however.

Nobody hammer

. He'll be lynched at deadline anyway due to plurality lynch rule.

If fake flips town, I'll be taking a good look at dodgy, house, and prawn. (the other 3 on the wagon besides me)

If fake flips scum my suspicion falls on jake and nether.

are you really criticizing somebody's lack of posting? That's funny. From the looks of it Fake hasn't logged on to the site since the 23rd so for people waiting for a claim, I don't think we will get one unless he magically returns. We may need the mod to seek a replacement.

Mod, have you prodded fake yet? if yes is he due to be replaced anytime soon?

I also believe you have at least 2 requests for you to explain the reasoning for your vote and so far you haven't answered them so while we are waiting can you oblige? Thank you

[Jake from State Farm]

Terrible. Jackal's general lack of activity and superficial reasoning are easily explained by

would it make a difference if he was posting in an NFL thread or posting in a minecraft server thread (which implies he is probably at his computer playing minecraft as well?)

just wondering

[Jake from State Farm]

I understand when people have RL issues, and I actually normally don't believe people when they say they do but i can't imagine he would lie about an accident. I do certainly think if he were scum he could use that to his advantage, lord knows I certainly would.

but if we ignore that and just focus on the posts he has actually made, he had provided absolutely nothing of value. I can't find examples of scum hunting, I can't find explaining of reasoning in his posts, and now he has been asked for his reasoning he has neglected to respond to that and instead just posted more useless posts.

What i don't understand is why are you ok with letting this behaviour go? he should at the very least be pressured to contribute because it looks like he is trying to do as little as possible. If he is town this isn't acceptable behaviour and if he is scum, well yeah it makes him look scummy.

[Jake from State Farm]

What's your read on jackal house?

[Jake from State Farm]

What's your read on jackal house?

I dislike any push coming from prawneater. Those pushes are fakespeare and Jackal.

I won't lynch either of them.

I'll look over his I so at lunch to see where you are coming from, cause jackal looks terrible

[Jake from State Farm]

This is the worst OMGUS I've seen.

Idk, yours was pretty bad

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm pm'ing Mina. Its been 5 days without a mod post, mods are supposed a VC daily. We have 1 player who needs to be replaced probably.

[Jake from State Farm]

Explaining: I've noticed that I'm often scumreading town PRs during D1. Happened at least three times in my previous games. So I'm always expecting a PR claim from my top scumread.

that's basically how it's been for me the past couple of days. One of these days prs will learn the best way to hide is be active and look like you are being useful

[Jake from State Farm]

games not days lol

[Jake from State Farm]

pluraity hasn't happened yet cause deadline hasn't passed. By my count this is the current VC is


dodgy56 - 0 [L-5]
prawneater - 4 [L-1] jackal, House, netherspite, BrickAstley
fakespeare - 1 [L-4] Dodgy
BRickAstley - 1 [L-4] Jake from State Farm
CosmicKnight - 0 [L-5]
Jackal711 - 0 [L-5]
Jake from State Farm - 0 [L-5]
Netherspite - 1 [L-4] fakespeare
House - 1 [L-4] prawneater

With [9] alive it takes [5] to Lynch or No Lynch.


Not Voting: CosmicKnight

[Jake from State Farm]

Prawn has 4 and

Deadline is in ... (expired on 2015-01-30 12:36:00)

[/color][/size][/mech]

[Jake from State Farm]

I am here, I will hammer right before 0 but kinda hoping to get an extension and replacements.

[Jake from State Farm]

yeah, we should be entitled to an extension at the very least.

[Jake from State Farm]

I must say I can't remember the last time I've player with plurality, I didn't even know it was allowed in newbie games cause that's not a standard way of doing things :shrug:

[Jake from State Farm]

That's the hammer. Idk why the rush to hammer, at least let the man answer the question he was asked

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: dodgy

[Jake from State Farm]

In addition why is Jake voting for Jackal, when he is a cop?

I'm not voting jackal

[Jake from State Farm]

How would column 2 explain his no result?

@neo - no result means he got no result, implying he was role blocked

[Jake from State Farm]

That'd be column B Jake & Jackal.

it's Row 2 because rows are horizontal & Columns are vertical due to the fact that columns hold things up

I know the difference between row and column, I used it correctly.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh I got it, I used house's phrasing. House said 2, so I said 2

[Jake from State Farm]

right, the second part of that was aimed at house lol
if someone thinks you're town, then starts looking into you, what is your reaction?
earlier, you argued with house about prawn. What are your current thoughts on the house vs prawn fight?

Im a weird person, I typically don't mind if people think I'm scum, but if people start trying to lynch me I defend myself strongly. If someone town reads me then thinks I'm scum, I make sure the at least have a reason for the switch. But to me the reasons are always wrong anyway lol

I kinda think house genuinely thought prawn was scum, he was too adamant about lynching him, its sort of like I do when I'm sure I've found scum. So I lean town on house but totally understand why people think he could be scum

[Jake from State Farm]

First, thank you for answering my first set of questions. I do have more though that occurred to me.
So, you still feel that Dodgy's hammer is the biggest scum tell we currently have?
Do you have a Night analysis at all? If yes I wouldn't mind hearing it.
Do you have any other case on Dodgy, besides his hammer? If so I Definitely want to hear it.

1. I feel it is definitely worth pressuring him on, there was plenty of time left and prawn was asked questions so it looked like he was hammering to prevent him from speaking which is scummy, plus I don't like how he basically puts the blame on house instead of taking responsibility for his own actions.

2. No I do not have any night analysis yet, I typically will re-read the thread once the day starts and we have another flip, I hope to go through the thread sometime today or tomorrow.

3. right now I feel like he has been kinda trying to stay under the radar day 1 and his votes so far have been fairly convenient votes. His vote on Fake and now his vote on prawn. I just don't see any signs of a person looking to catch scum

[Jake from State Farm]

3: i believe his response today was honest and that if he was trying to goad me into voting prawn as a test he would have said so rather than continue to say he prawn was scummy. his honesty does make me think he is likely town
4: certainly possible. i would say he is experienced enough to attempt a gambit here. but i dont have the evidence to justify that is what he is doing?

Is the only reason you ate going after him due to him goading you or is there more? If more, explain cause to me it looks like he's your fallguy

[Jake from State Farm]

null - he is asking a lot of questions which looks town but that is something scum can easily do to make themselves look town so I will wait until I see more from him.

[Jake from State Farm]

slight town read, you are also asking a bunch of questions but in between that I see posts where it looks like you are trying to figure things out.

[Jake from State Farm]

I just haven't really had time to sit and read through all of his posts yet.

[Jake from State Farm]

I will but my priority is re-read, then make a case for dodgy. After I'll give my updated read on him

[Jake from State Farm]

umm who said i was going after him? i said i felt he was likely town?

Really? Damn thought you were

[Jake from State Farm]

Here is a response to your "case"

Spoiler:

He ignored that fact when he voted Dodgy and if you've seen both do it, why would it be either a scum or a town tell wouldn't it be Null? Just like someone asking questions is null. (ISO 56)

i didn't ignore that fact actually, you don't understand how pressure votes work obviously. he did something scummy (something I know for a fact scum has done in rvs) and I felt like it was a good way to get out of RVS and see how he reacts.

Very open question for SCB. What was more scummy about SCB's actions than House's RVS lark?

i asked him why Nether because he had said that he was going to vote park on him and he gave absolutely no reason for why he was voting him.

by putting pressure on Netherspite.

sidenote: you do know how pressure votes work

Rather than guide him as an SE

Not my job, this is why I SE and not IC. I don't like to teach

point out that he posted poorly and could have asked questions with his post you went on the attack with an open ended question he probably felt he had already answered

I'm sorry where did I attack SB with an open ended question? Are you referring to me asking SB why he voted nether? because that certainly wasn't an "attack" and it was an open ended question because as I said above, I had no idea why he was voting him and I wanted his explanation.

I find it interesting that you rose to Netherspite's defense so quickly

had nothing to do with nether actually, had he chosen somebody else and not given a reason i would have asked the same question. He made a decision to vote park on somebody without a reason, i wanted to know what that reason was.

Look at your ISO 8

yes, this was me still trying to understand the reason for his vote. I still don't know why he voted nether and now I never will. It's almost as if I am trying to understand the motives of his actions or something...

You also don't ask questions that he can easily answer.

Asking why he voted somebody isn't a tough question. I am not sure what you think I should have asked him but "why are you voting player X" is a pretty straight forward question and quite easy to answer. if he had no actual reason he could have said so. But I want to thank you for pointing this out to me because it could actually be an example of n00b scum trying to look town and then panicking because he didn't actually have a reason. I will need to go back and figure out who replaced SB and look at their iso

ISO 9 A full day later, with 14 posts in between, but none from SCB, you vote SCB with no other explanation offered at that moment.

that is correct. He wasn't answering my questions and I wanted to pressure him some more with a vote.

ISO 10, you were asked why by your scum buddy Netherspite, and you passed off responsibility for needing your own logic about your SCB vote by copying House's logic. In other words, you commit the exact same action you're accusing SCB of being scummy for committing.

Ignoring the scum buddy comment because I am not scum, I didn't pass off responsibility to anyone and I am not committing the same action I am accusing of SCB. When I was asked my reasoning I provided one, sure I could have gone into more detail but I provided a reason for my vote. SB didn't and still hadn't at that point.

ISO 24. Funny thing, ISO 14 you said you had seen Town claim scum in RVS before. Is that a lie I smell? hmm interesting explanation... No link? dunno what to believe. You seem to be changing your story about this scum claim idea based on the reads and thoughts you want to display rather than your actual experiences.

I could see how there is a misunderstanding behind this one, I wasn't speaking about just in RVS in this post, I was speaking about in games I have played in general. As for links I am not sure I would be able to do that so easily because I have been playing on this site since 2010 (under at least 2 different accounts which I want to remain hidden) plus I have been playing on another site since probably 2008. There is no way to comb through all those games to find the specific examples. I did think I had one on this game but when I just went to post it it wasn't scum who claimed scum in RVS, it was scum who self voted in RVS which wouldn't be of much help for this instance.

ISO 36 would have been a good time for town Jake to comment on the House Netherspite argument if he saw anything. Instead, he tries to direct our town voter, House, into going after Jackal.

Couple of things here.
1. maybe I didn't really see anything and felt the argument was going nowhere (as most arguments do, trust me I have been involved in many) and instead I wanted to intervene by changing focus.
2. how do you know House is town?
3. Asking his opinion of a player =/= making them go after them

if you remember, Jake said that lurkers can often be town PRs and have been accidentally lynched for it. He has since then targeted Jackal. trying to get a PR revealed.

1. I mean if we are splitting hairs here, I never said "often"
2. yes I was targeting jackal but not because I was trying to get a PR revealed. That is very manipulative of you to suggest that.

I saw a player who has been lurking (huge pet peeve of mine) posting elsewhere but not in this game (an even bigger pet peeve of mine) and also a player who wasn't scum hunting or doing anything to help progress the game and as such i felt deserevd some pressure (now we know for a fact that you know what pressure votes are so it just seems to be the fact that he was actually a PR, you are trying to defend his honor or something by going after his attackers. That's fine but being wrong doesn't mean I am scum)

ISO 44. Why hammer. You mentioned Plurality in ISO 42. You know you won't be hammering, you're just trying to convince someone else to so that you can blame them later ... (glances at Dodgy the scape goat)

1. to have a complete VCA
2. I actually was going to hammer
3. something about a square being forced into a circle comes to mind with that last part... I think you are trying so hard to make me into scum you are trying to misrep my actions.

ISO 46 you just mentioned the plurality in 42, how did you forget in between... Lies trying to get a scape goat hammer.

I think you are confused here as there are no lies in iso 46. ISo 46 I state 2 facts as they relate to me. 1. I can't remember the last time I played with pluraity because it's not common, especially on mafiascum and 2. I said I didn't even know it was allowed in newbie games (which again is the truth because before this game, I don't think I have ever seen a newbie game use pluraity before) So why the false accusation of lying?

ISO 53, I'd bet you'd say they're wrong even when you're scum

Well obviously yeah because as scum the goal is to try and play how you would as town.

now on to your questions

1.) Looking back at your posts, who do you feel you connect with the most? (I felt Netherspite, but am open to your answer)
2.) What makes you connect to that player? This may be difficult to answer, sorry.
3.) Does my case against you affect your read on my in any way? Follow up, which direction does it sway you if any?
4.) Did you notice that both you and Netherspite rose to defend Fakespeare, also that you were the only two?
5.) I could be wrong, did anyone else rise to defend Fakespeare?
6.) Why does Nether want to know people's read on you?
7.) have you been in a game where two newbs chose not to kill the IC?

I think it's funny you try to criticize me for asking an open ended question in your "case" against me but all you have done is come in asking a ton of open ended questions, but anyway

1. I don't even think I understand what you mean by that anyway. Do you mean who am i town reading or something else? I don't think I "connect" with anyone. if you mean who I am town reading I think pretty much my only solid town read is house but I don't usually get town reads, it's something that is very hard for me.
2. I'll skip this one since i don't connect with anyone
3. I didn't think your case would affect my read on you but seeing how you have misrepped me and shown signs of dishonesty i'd have to say it does make me lean scum on you. It was way to manipulative to come from a town point of view.
4. No i didn't notice that, once I do my re-read i will have to verify if that is even true. You have already shown signs of manipulation so I am going to have trouble trusting your statements
5. can't answer until I do my re-read
6. Ask him, I have no clue
7. I'd have to go through my newbie games and check cause that is something I never stopped to think about. The IC not dying n1 never stands out to me because i don't expect the IC to automatically be killed.

[Jake from State Farm]

Dodgy

What do you have to say about JFSF's accusation that you are not looking to catch scum?

given that he just said im going after house whilst quoting my post where i say house is likely town, id say jake is trying to push my mislynch. i probably havent contributed as much as i would like due to RL but JFSF is misrepresenting what im saying. i need to a re-read on him

P-edit: fair enough, i guess that is also possible

yeah obviously I misread your post. ok so if you think house is town, who are you scum reading and why?

Why haven't you come after me or nether since we are voting you?

I still think my statement about your day 1 play are pretty accurate, I don't think you have done much scum hunting day 1 and not really doing much of anything day 2 so far. If you think my assessment is wrong then please show me where you were actively trying to scum hunt and your scum hunting resulted in your votes for the people you voted for.

[Jake from State Farm]

JFSF didn't slip. He skimmed the post and completely missed the townread.

This

[Jake from State Farm]

1. You ignored my questions, can you please answer them
2. I don't believe I voted somebody for voting me, what are you talking about

[Jake from State Farm]

yeah obviously I misread your post. ok so if you think house is town, who are you scum reading and why?

[Jake from State Farm]

You didn't answer that...
(Yes I quoted the wrong post but that's my question)

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't. He's not even on the top of my town reads atm.

But you called him town...

[Jake from State Farm]

But if you don't have a town read on him, why are you assuming he's town for your case on me? That's exactly what I pointed out earlier trying to force a square into a round hole. Its sort of like using relational tells without flips. If you thought he was town then that makes more sense but you just said you don't. You also seem to think me/nether are scum yet you are voting somebody else. How does that make any sense?

vote: pulindar

I.just think you are asking a bunch of questions in an attempt to distract people

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah I didn't even see that part, those huge posts with the spoilers and stuff are hard to read for me

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah, you apparently have skipped quite a few things

One of the drawbacks of playing on my phone. Work has been so busy for me that I haven't had much labtop time, I shouldn't even be posting as much as I have but Im kinda addicted.

As for the "calm town" reaction you expected from me, you will learn as you play with me that calm isn't in me. I try to every game but never works out. I'm kinda spastic at times

[Jake from State Farm]

Welcome zar.

I'll try to read the last page at lunch, I'm turning my phone off for so no distractions this morning at work. Got a 4 day weekend coming up and am swamped. Which reminds me

v/la 2/13 to 2/16

Birthday weekend, taking a trip

[Jake from State Farm]

Back to your question, I did suspected house to be a scum before, but that was just a hunch. He could have been very well a townie trying to gather up information.

So what was your hunch based on? Is there stuff he's done that makes him look scummy to you? Also why are you town reading dodgy?

[Jake from State Farm]

@pulindar

Fakespear/Neo slot is because it's the scummiest for me and nothing has happened to change that. Even your OMGUS vote against me. You never came up with a case on Dodgy or a NK analysis. You voted me purely because you couldn't think of anything else.

1. Did you make a real case against neo that I missed? If no can you?
2.your right, I haven't yet time has gotten away from me plus work. I'll try tonight or tomorrow.
3. That wasn't the case actually, I'm voting you cause you have been very manipulative.

I'll be back to respond more later, gotta take my daughter to practice

[Jake from State Farm]

Thoughts in zars case on dodgy

[Jake from State Farm]

ok so sorry, wanted this to get done before I go on v/la

Looking at the vote counts where somebody had at least 3 votes on them

VC 1.04 - fakespeare - 3 [L-2] House,

prawneater

,

Jackal711

VC 1.05 - prawneater - 4 [L-1]

Jackal711

, House, Netherspite,

BRickAstley

VC 1.06(final) - prawneater - 5 [L-0]

Jackal711

, House, Netherspite,

BRickAstley

, dodgy56


So looking at the fake wagon, 2 townies were on it and so was house. I don't think there is enough information to determine House's alignment cause it is quite possible that 3 townies vote the same person. House voted fake because fake called nether's actions "scum as fuck" but voted for House instead. So while House makes a good point he does come off as a little omgusy/defensive. Fake does change his vote to nether after that vote from house so i give a slight scum not to fake not house in that exchange. He feels to me like he is afraid of the negative attention from an experienced player. i don't know what to make of nether though, if fake is scum then is nether bussing? possible but who knows. If fake is town then is nether scum? idk. Is house scum? possible but not enough to go on.

The 2nd wagon we have Jackal who is the cop and Brick who is dead. House is also on the wagon as are nether and dodgy.

House looks like he was genuinely scum reading prawn, but I have been able to convincingly tunnel on a townie as scum before and given his experience House probably has also. The part that bugs me is the pushing for dodgy to hammer but that isn't enough. If we can get rid of the roleblocker a house investigation would probably help town out the most because if he can be confirmed town that would help figure this game out better.

nether - I have no idea why he voted prawn, looks on the surface he just jumped on the next closest wagon after the jackal wagon (I don't think the jackall wagon appears on the mod VC's so I need to go look at that one also). The reason why this vote looks bad is because I kinda think it was a slip on his part. He thought that Prawn was at L-2 and he put the L-1 vote on him and he didn't announce it which allows town to derp hammer. Granted prawn wasn't at L-2, he was at L-3 but I don't like that vote at all.

Dodgy - As I said earlier I didn't like either of his votes day 1 and I haven't seen much scum hunting. The fact that he isn't going after House kinda of weirds me out because if he were scum and house was town he absolutely would be going after town, unless he is experienced enough to know that is what people would be looking for and he is doing the opposite for town cred...

which now has me wanting to post this scene

Right now I think nether/neo (fakespear) look more like partners


ok now the Jackal wagon only had 3 voters when he claimed

Jackal711 - 2 [L-3] Jake from State Farm, Netherspite, House

Both House and Nether are on this wagon. House voted him for his change in read on nether. Nether voted for his "fake scum hunting and mimicing" (or something to that effect, posted in post 215), and then my vote which was a pressure vote since jackal wasn't posting here yet posting elsewhere and he also wasn't trying to find scum.

I don't think a house/nether scum is possible. I am still leaning nether/neo

When looking at Brick who was the NK target, he was suspicious of nether but getting town vibes from fake and it seems like he was town reading House to some extent also. So scum was either killing brick because they felt he was a threat with good reads (which blows my nether/neo scum pair) or maybe they thought he was the doc because the cop was inactive so they thought maybe the doc was also (which would imply that we could have a newbie scum pair) because I did not get any doc vibes from brick.


After reading through Day 1 I am left have absolutely no read on Cosmic and we already know my read on his replacement. I still could see this slot as scum but I don't really know who he would be scum with (maybe i should stop looking for relationship tells until we have a scumflip...)

My gut says that nether could be the right lynch but i need to do an ISO of him real fast. Sadly I have to cut my post short because my son's school just called and have to go pick him up and take him to the doctor. I will try and get online more this afternoon before I go on my trip.

I'm good leaving my vote where it is at right now but I want to iso nether again. I'm still ok with dodgy getting lynched also, I don't feel like he has added anything to the game and I still don't see much scum hunting.

[Jake from State Farm]

Why do you feel the need to defend a null read that won't even defend himself?

this is a good question btw. I would like to see this answered.

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

[Jake from State Farm]

Sadly I have nothing to add, haven't read past few pages. I'll read up before deadline though

[Jake from State Farm]

I will when I get back, and thanks

[Jake from State Farm]

Sadly I have nothing to add, haven't read past few pages. I'll read up before deadline though

I would like you to give thoughts on my case on dodgy, and if you have anything to add from the interaction I had with Netherspite regarding the claim.

I will say from what I remember, it was a good case but I didn't click on the links or anything. I have been scum reading him myself. I'm not ready to drop a vote now though cause I've missed too much and want to be informed before moving my vote.

I still have to show pulindar where he manipulated me, despite the fact I did it already in.the posts where I accused him of it originally...

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll try to gt caught up on this game first since deadline is close, tonight or first thing tomorrow.

[Jake from State Farm]

ok so starting where I left off on page 20

Spoiler:

Personally i do not like this post by nether

If we'll lose this game because majority will decide to give a free pass to the most scummy players here (neo1990 and dodgy56) and lynching me instead I'll lose faith in experienced players on this forum...
Previous time I was mislynched they at least figured out the real scum. Wondering whether it will be the case this time.

It's nothing but an appeal to emotion which is unnecessary

VOTE: neo1990

I'm happy with this dying today.

Why?

Sorry guys

Pulindar wrote:
Jake, when you say manipulative, do you mean with my case on you?
If not, what else have you seen as manipulative?

Not answered

It was in my response to your case

Here it is

if you remember, Jake said that lurkers can often be town PRs and have been accidentally lynched for it. He has since then targeted Jackal. trying to get a PR revealed.

1. I mean if we are splitting hairs here, I never said "often"
2. yes I was targeting jackal but not because I was trying to get a PR revealed. That is very manipulative of you to suggest that.

Here is one where I said you were trying to misrep my actions which imo is the same thing as being manipulative

ISO 44. Why hammer. You mentioned Plurality in ISO 42. You know you won't be hammering, you're just trying to convince someone else to so that you can blame them later ... (glances at Dodgy the scape goat)

1. to have a complete VCA
2. I actually was going to hammer
3. something about a square being forced into a circle comes to mind with that last part... I think you are trying so hard to make me into scum you are trying to misrep my actions.

here is another example of a manipulative post because this was also not true

ou voted me purely because you couldn't think of anything else.

Just saying that I have a problem with pulindar doing iso cases because those are so easy to manipulate. My brother when he played here was notorious for doing iso cases as both alignments. I could easily do an iso case on anyone in the game and make them look scummy.

mental note - check to see if dodgy does anything useful...

realized that I can't reliably read you.

I second this, House does seem difficult to read. He does come off as if he is trolling at times and I can't tell if that makes him town or scum

If you're sure someone is scum without such information you're lying.

I wouldn't get to hung up on people declaring they "know" somebody is scum because once I convince myself that somebody is scum i also declare that i know they are, even if I don't actually know 100% for certain. It doesn't mean they are lying, just that they have convinced themselves beyond a shadow of a doubt.

i am leaning scum but not ruling out the latter at all.
neo is probably my best scumread. having done a re-read i fee like one of nether and Fakespeare/neo is scum based on interaction d1.

can you please explain how you got to bothe Neo/nether scum reads? I don't see where you have explained this at all

im townreading house for his explanation of his goading. not because he goaded me. i would have expected a very different response if he was scum

Kinda of a dumb reason to be town reading somebody. Do you have anything else?

I found this remarkably scummy. Neo will do ok, and then stuff like this just feels off to me.

Vote Neo

what was scummy about it? It's funny because i did almost the exact same thing in a game recently and people also said it was scummy and I can't understand for the life of me why.

This is through page 21. I kind of want to break these up so they aren't super long. Next post will be starting with page 22.

[Jake from State Farm]

Spoiler:

lol sorry, but this is very town. Scum would have either "given up" trying to get my attention, or used it to push me as scum.

Did you think he wasn't town before that or that his possibility of being town was in doubt? I don't see why you would post that unless you had doubts but from what i recall you didn't doubt the cop claim did you?

I would like you to give thoughts on my case on dodgy, and if you have anything to add from the interaction I had with Netherspite regarding the claim.

Right. Your case

I dislike his post 67 and I also disagree that a mass claim would ever help town in this game, although the moment we had a cop claim, scum can pretty much narrow down the possible setup so it's now a moot point. The rest of your case is basically confirming what I had already said about dodgy, that he isn't really looking for scum and his inactivity is bad. My only problem with that is didn't we run into an issue this game where jackal was inactive and look what happened with him. I do find him scummy though and am definitely willing to lynch him but I don't think i can really make any different arguments than what you have done. I do want to see how he responds to my questions in my previous post.

@ House - why do you want nether lynched? did I miss a case from you? if so what post is it in?

I do not like House's reaction to being voted by zar on page 23

dodgy didn't even respond to the case on him, like, come on? Why's this still alive?

from what I have seen, he hasn't really responded to anything/anyone. Do you feel House or dodgy is more likely to flip scum? Do you think they are a pair?

Did you see my manipulative actions as being aimed at leading your answers with my questions?

Not sure I understand this question but since I have pointed the manipulative actions maybe this question isn't needed. If you think it is ask again please and possibly rephrase.

Oh yeah, now I remember why I stopped reading this thread.

See you folks in two days.

Why do I get the feeling like house is trying to sacrifice himself?

ill have more tonight but since we need to start consolidating before deadline,
VOTE: Neo

Why did this never happen? You know the deadline is coming because you even admit it, where are you?

House's vote on dodgy seems out of the blue, kinda throws my theory that house was trying to protect dodgy...

damn, I was going to be ok with a house vote until pulindar voted him... maybe house isn't scum? so conflicted right now.

He reacted poorly in my opinion

How exactly did i react poorly? because I certainly disagree

Ok so I think I am caught up on the pages. If I missed any questions I am sorry. Now tonight I will do some isos before voting.

[Jake from State Farm]

you are making my decision much easier. Thank you

[Jake from State Farm]

mod, your last VC doesnt mention pluarity. Has that been removed from the rules?

It means that if you cant be bothered to answer my questions, you are essentially claiming scum.

P.edit - why should I have to retype them? Why not just read and answer them?

[Jake from State Farm]

your refusal to read my post and respond to them are scummy. I asked the questions and you are purposely refusing to answer them.

vote: house

answer my questions bish and maybe I'll unvote you

[Jake from State Farm]

your refusal to answer my questions is as good as a scum claim imo so I don't really care what you do.

p.edit I didn't need to mention you were at L-1 because the VC was on this page and somebody unvoted you because they didn't want you at L-1 so nobody can claim ignorance that they didn't realize my vote put you at l-1

[Jake from State Farm]

it's always a good practice if their is no VC on the same page or if the fact that it hasn't already been mentioned on the same page. Since both have happened on this page there is no need to mention it and nobody would believe anyone who claimed "they didn't know"

so how about my questions? gonna answer them?

p.edit - well maybe I am not at a computer anymore because of my own r/l and don't have the time to do it. I asked the questions, it is your responsibility to answer them. Refusal is scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

your refusal to answer my questions is as good as a scum claim imo

I frankly told him how he could get his answers multiple times

Keep reposting your bullshit excuse and I'll keep quoting the facts.

the only fact I see is your out right refusal to answer my questions....

[Jake from State Farm]

you have 24 hours to get unbusy from your RL issues and answer my questions and convince me I am wrong about you. The burden of proof lies in your court sir not mine. I'm sorry I can't retype my questions because I am not at a computer anymore and am about to get in a car.

deuces

[Jake from State Farm]

As a sign of good faith

unvote

But I'm not retyping my questions

[Jake from State Farm]

The only question that is pertinent is about my read on Zar.

I obviously wasn't townreading him before I posted that. His posting surprised me because I expected him to use my indifference to his posts as an easy excuse to wagon me.

Sort of the same reason I am leaning scum on you.

Your question about neo is irrelevant for reasons already discussed, and your third quote of my post looks like a question to other townies about my posting.

Which is another reason I am suspicious of you. You're demanding I answer all these questions, when you've only asked one that is relevant.

Now was that so hard?

But my question about neo isn't irrelevant to me, so please explain why you were voting him.

[Jake from State Farm]

At least house is here participating, even though he's playing sort of like how wake was playing in another game. Playing poorly either for the lulz or for idk.

Dodgy has been dodging the game all game long and failing to deliver on his promises. I'm sticking with my gut read on him

vote: dodgy

That's L-1 I believe

[Jake from State Farm]

I actually agree with house here.

How can you agree with his bad logic? I had engaged him already by asking him questions, him asking me to post them again is stalling and refusing to engage with me.

[Jake from State Farm]

Who are your top 2 scum reads and why? I still don't think I've seen you explain that.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'd be OK lynching house but that's notr of a policy at this point, I'm not sure if he's scum though his hop off dodgy brings Mr back to thinking he's actually protecting dodgy. Im good lynching pulindar also but no time and I don't think their is support. Dodgy unfortunately hasn't don't enough to convince me he's not scum and we don't have more time, I doubt we would get an extension.

[Jake from State Farm]

^ yes this

[Jake from State Farm]

Not sure if the mod said anything or not but I had an emergency pop up the other day and am v/la. I should be back by Monday hopefully.

[Jake from State Farm]

Based off memory, I'd say house as he definitely looked like he was trying to distract from dodgy, but I'm going to try and reread some things and look at interactions before I do anything.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't think I was flying under the radar at all

[Jake from State Farm]

Then, there's Jake's push against House, which came in a very awkward moment in thread in which dodgy's wagon was picking interest,

I don't think that's correct, from what I recall neither had more than 2 votes on them and house was definitely acting scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

It probably has something to do with my new play style for 2015, people complain I post too much and it distracts from the game, this is the 2nd game somebody accused me of being under the radar but I disagreed.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll read it when I get to work, 2 hour delays screw my entire day up and it doesn't help when my daughter is trying to make up an illness to get out of school

[Jake from State Farm]

That's a pretty good case actually, there's a few things that house did that make me doubt they were partners, but I was pretty much feeling that vibe yesterday. I want to look at your interactions with dodgy also before I do anything.

[Jake from State Farm]

I was in the newbie que for a reason, idk why that matters as it relates to the game.

[Jake from State Farm]

Why have you been giving me latitude? If you were town id expect you to not give me latitude.

[Jake from State Farm]

And no that doesn't raise red flags, he could have seen it and didn't really read it yet. I've done that before.

P. Edit - I was on a hiatus, but that's not my reason for joining the newbie que. Again, what does my reason for playing newbie games have to do with this game?

P.edit - I'm a top poster, how's that flying under the radar?

[Jake from State Farm]

P.edit - I'm a top poster, how's that flying under the radar?

Uhm, no. You ain't.

A

top poster means one of the top, I'm 3rd

[Jake from State Farm]

how many lynches have you driven? How many hard stances have you taken outside of your busing of dodgy?

Jackal was one, sure I was wrong but I was the one pressuring him the most. I didn't bus dodgy cause I'm not scum but nice try.

[Jake from State Farm]

I honestly don't remember, I'd have to go back through my newbie games and check. Im pretty sure I have bussed my partner before though

[Jake from State Farm]

VOTE: dodgy65

Help me out here, I can't remember why did you vote dodgy right after me?

Also why weren't you voting dodgy yesterday?

Or I can check myself when I get to work

[Jake from State Farm]

And 803 actually makes some sense to me, though I still think it's house. I just finished a game where I was opposed to a Lynch that flipped scum but was on the wagon anyway, everyone thought I was bussing.

My issue was it seemed like house was trying to distract from dodgy a bit, like his vote on pulindar really made no sense to me

[Jake from State Farm]

But dodgy was a goon, if I was scum I'd earn massive town cred bussing him. I was on his case for most of the game but all I could really point to was lurking and since I was pressuring jackal for lurking and he was cop, I was kind of gun shy about another.

P.edit - OK thanks

[Jake from State Farm]

But dodgy was a goon, if I was scum I'd earn massive town cred bussing him. I was on his case for most of the game but all I could really point to was lurking and since I was pressuring jackal for lurking and he was cop, I was kind of gun shy about another.

P.edit - OK thanks

This post does not make much sense.

You first say that you'd get massive town cred for bussing him and you're admitting you were on his case for most of the game without much reasoning (which looks like bussing).

Can you elaborate on what were you trying to say?

I was on his case early cause of the scum claim, as I said before I have seen scum do that before. I kept pressuring him because he wasn't doing anything. I made a case on him, he wasn't scum hunting, he wasn't trying to progress the game, and he seemed opportunistic. Nobody else was into lynching him at the time and then pulindar distracted me by intentionally misrepping me and then I went on my trip and lost focus of the game (I hate making excuses, but it is what it is)

I'm a smart player, and I know how to optimize my chances of winning and in that situation hard bussing him would have been the better play if I was scum. I have hard bussed a partner before and won so I know its a viable strategy, one that I doubt newbies would pick up on.

[Jake from State Farm]

But dodgy was a goon, if I was scum I'd earn massive town cred bussing him. I was on his case for most of the game but all I could really point to was lurking and since I was pressuring jackal for lurking and he was cop, I was kind of gun shy about another.

P.edit - OK thanks

This post does not make much sense.

You first say that you'd get massive town cred for bussing him and you're admitting you were on his case for most of the game without much reasoning (which looks like bussing).

Can you elaborate on what were you trying to say?

I was on his case early cause of the scum claim, as I said before I have seen scum do that before. I kept pressuring him because he wasn't doing anything. I made a case on him, he wasn't scum hunting, he wasn't trying to progress the game, and he seemed opportunistic. Nobody else was into lynching him at the time and then pulindar distracted me by intentionally misrepping me and then I went on my trip and lost focus of the game (I hate making excuses, but it is what it is)

I'm a smart player, and I know how to optimize my chances of winning and in that situation hard bussing him would have been the better play if I was scum. I have hard bussed a partner before and won so I know its a viable strategy, one that I doubt newbies would pick up on.

So since I was the one tunneling him since beginning of D2 I am more likely to be scum than you or

House

?

Did I say you were? I'm not really sure about you, still need to Iso you and look at interactions. Your attack on him beginning of day 2, could easily have been a way to distance from him for his bad hammer, yes I realize the same could be said about me. Im trying to work things out

[Jake from State Farm]

And yes you are more likely to be scum over me

[Jake from State Farm]

ok so looking at the exchange early on regarding the dodgy claiming scum. I don't really like that House voted Jackal for his vote on House. Nether's response to house in post 56 is spot on imo.

but other than that I don't really see anything but a bunch of questions directed towards dodgy which could easily come from scum just as much as town.

The only thing that sets me off is Nether was his vote on prawn came out of nowhere, and he did it "thinking" he was putting him at L-1 (yes he wasn't but nether thought he was) and then when prawn eventually got hammered, his post to prawn seemed like white knighting to me.

@prawneater

Thanks for the information.
Hope we'll be able to win this game for you (if you'll flip town).

It's possible that the push on dodgy was to set up distancing considering he just vote parked on dodgy but he was pushing for his lynch so idk.


Going to iso house tomorrow, despite the above, my gut still says house is scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

@House

In fact, I realized that the goal for any of us regardless of alignment is mostly the same: lynch other two to have 100% win.
The only difference is the scum does not care about the order in which to lynch people while town should care about it much (because if we don't catch scum today the remaining townie will have to prove that the other one is scum and it can be hard).

Precisely. Jake is not taking any firm stances, he's doubtcasting us both. That makes it easier for him to rationalize voting the other player tomorrow if he succeeds today.

How can I take a stance if I haven't finished my work? I still need to Iso you, I have no clue which one of you are scum, what you call 'doubt casting" is actually me being unsure of myself.

[Jake from State Farm]

From my perspective, One of Jake & Nether have to be scum, and I'm leaning heavily on Nether being town.

From Nether's perspective, one of Jake & I have to be scum, and I'm town.

From Jake's perspective, one of Nether and I have to be mislynched.

Barring any particularly keen insight from Zar, I'm thinking we should lynch Jake today and Nether & I 1v1 tomorrow.

EBWOP.

This to me basically says you know I'm going to flip town

[Jake from State Farm]

Sure, you are "scum reading" me...

[Jake from State Farm]

Nah I'm not, and i'm not voting til I'm sure.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you are scum, i think you may have showed your hand too early.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't know if you are scum, which is why I want to re-read your interactions with dodgy. I also still want to read dodgy's limited iso.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jackal iirc

I mentioned it also

[Jake from State Farm]

I mentioned it D1 iirc.

Not unless you typed it differently

[Jake from State Farm]

At least its not Mylo/Mylo, so even if you choose wrong, you have another chance tomorrow.

Hopefully pulindar isn't really gone til the 6th, pretty sure that's past deadline

[Jake from State Farm]

I came to that conclusion because there wasn't much to point to. There still wasn't, the things that dodgy got suspicion for are things that I have seen both town and scum do a bunch of times. Sure I could see how you would think distancing, but I felt like others did more that was actually scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

Honestly, as I read the interaction I lean more towards Jake as being scum than House.

At this point, that's fine. I'm not scum but I know tomorrow town has another chance. Until I'm swinging from the rope I'm not going to stop trying to figure out who scum is. If you all want to save me time and energy and lynch me i'd be ok with that also. my Rl has been pretty hectic lately.

Work got busy today so i won't be able to do my iso on house til tonight but most likely tomorrow.

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

ok so things have been very busy for me. So first I wanted to look at dodgy's posts and 2 things stand out. 1. "Town reading" house for goading him into hammering a townie, it definitely could have been a 1-2 punch and he didn't want any suspicion to fall on him OR house. Also post 680, dodgy says he doesn't want to lynch house, it seems like a very odd stance when he is the counter. If House is the RB this reaction makes sense to me.

Now sure he votes House eventually but at that point it was inevitable that dodgy was getting lynched since dodgy was L-1, it looks like last minute effort to distance himself from his buddy.


ok going over house's iso now. brb

[Jake from State Farm]

ok so the first time house votes dodgy is for the scum claim. Second time is when he votes him because he doesn't think nether is scum anymore (supposedly after reading nether's iso but no idea what he saw to support it) The only other person voting dodgy at this point was nether. could possibly be an attempt to buddy nether by bussing the goon.

His vote of pulindar was interesting because he actually attempts to make a small case on pulindar but then just writes it off later as misreading what pulindar had said. This doesn't really make sense to me. You don't say things like

Truth is, you're giving me manipulative vibes the more I read of your posts. Not to mention, you've been itching to sell my mislynch since 340.

and this

What makes it even worse is that you unvote me while still reading me as scum in 368. Like seriously, wtf is up with that?

the pulindar doesn't even respond to house, instead makes a case on dodgy and the house unvotes pulindar because he

I misread your post.

That doesn't make sense. What post did he misread? what about the case house just made? It looks like house was hoping the dodgy wagon would fall apart but once pulindar made that case, realized that it wasn't going to.

Other things that I feel like I want to point out.

House says I am experienced enough to know that town and scum claim scum in RVS, this is a blatant attempt to discredit my push on dodgy.
House says in 174 that scum love to give null reads when quoting dodgy giving null reads. Dodgy I don't really gives a null read the remainder of the game so kinda seems like coaching to me
House goading dodgy to hammer a townie still rubs me the wrong way. Why was prawneater scummy to house? I don't ever recall a case or even a reason from house
neo calls House scum and dodgy town, and house insults him. Kinda makes me wonder if neo was killed for being on to house.
House's 441, house is playing dumb acting like he doesn't know what neo was talking about. This isn't a townie reaction imp
House's 488 says he is happy with neo dying, well of course if house is scum he would be happy with that. Seems nothing but an OMGUS vote to me

House definitely looks like he could be partners with dodgy after going through all these posts. The coaching of dodgy, nk of neo, and the weird flip flop off dodgy and making a case for pulindar only to write it off a few posts later with a reason that doesn't even male any sense.


yeah

vote: house

[Jake from State Farm]

So wait, why are you voting me?

[Jake from State Farm]

I didn't misrepresent anything. That's how I saw it and still see it. If that gets me lynched oh well but houses vote and change makes no sense and his reason for his change about misreading still looks like bullshit to me

[Jake from State Farm]

So its obvious I'm going to get lynched so my bet is house is final scum, if its nether well GG to him.

[Jake from State Farm]

He seemed to be moving towards making his town games look similar to his scum games during last months. I guess it is to make his play indistinguishable between scum and town

This really isn't true, I mean if that's the consequence of me improving my play and becoming a more enjoyable person to play with then so be it, but I left for a while cause people were insulting me and my play, people were avoiding me and saying hurtful mean things. I took a time out to regroup and figure out how to calm myself and not push buttons anymore.

As for the pulindar neo/house thing, maybe I did misread something but I stand behind the fact that his vote/unvote looked weird. And you are correct, I hate bussing and don't feel like it is ever a viable strategy, though I have gotten away with it once or twice.

[Jake from State Farm]

Right out of the gate, probably not. I would have rather attacked house as his vote/actions looked worse than dodgys hammer.

[Jake from State Farm]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

That post was made with the assumption if I was scum with dodgy.

I voted dodgy cause I didn't like the hammer and his play day 1 looked opportunistic to me.

[Jake from State Farm]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

And this kind of analysis & initiative is what helped me flip my read of Nether. If he was scum, he could have easily accepted Jake's answer and used it to fuel his redirection onto my wagon without further attempts to justify it.

Nether is actively trying to figure out the game, whereas Jake is being reactionary.

Yeah, cause you are trying to.figure things out right? Bullshit.you just buddy nether and decide a 1 v 1 is better than actually doing work to see if you are right.

I looked over both isos and decided your play makes the most sense. You can't say you have done the same, if you do its an outright lie

[Jake from State Farm]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

That post was made with the assumption if I was scum with dodgy.

I voted dodgy cause I didn't like the hammer and his play day 1 looked opportunistic to me.

Where do you get that he's assuming any such thing? he stated quite clearly that he's leaning towards voting me.

That's awfully defensive.

Your response doesn't match the rest of the words posted, and there is absolutely no level of defensive in that post.

[Jake from State Farm]

Anyway, I can't tell for sure whether this game is

Jake from State Farm

's scum play or town play. I'm slightly leaning town though.

Yet Jake is accusing Nether of assuming he's scum. Sounds like worried scum that doesn't like having to answer a hard question.

Um, no I'm.not

[Jake from State Farm]

Where did I accuse nether of assuming I'm scum? Cause I didn't do any such thing

[Jake from State Farm]

Would you bus his partner in this situation we had at the beginning of D2 despite you're hating to bus?

House you must be "misreading" cause minus the typo where nether types his instead your, he was asking me if I was scum would I bus. My response back was under the assumption that if I were scum.

I think you are just mud slinging at this point, which seems unnecessary since I'm the one at l-1, not you.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah, now read post 898 again and see where nether is asking me if I would have busses if I were scum...

[Jake from State Farm]

Bussed*

[Jake from State Farm]

See,why are you so desperate? I'm at l-1, not you

[Jake from State Farm]

Cause at the time I really didn't think what house did was that bad, he just seemed sure of himself which I can relate cause that's how I used to be. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt

[Jake from State Farm]

And this is terrible. Encouraging town to withhold information is pro-scum.

You can call it terrible all you want but I can point to many games where I share this sentiment. Giving list reads is the single worst thing any player can do.

[Jake from State Farm]

Subtly encouraging my wagon but keeping your distance from it.

Or maybe I just didn't find what you did.that scummy at the time. But also didn't feel you were worth defending.

[Jake from State Farm]

Does anyone really think scum would do this to their partner?

If they wanted to distance from them, yes.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake from State Farm

Okay, but when I asked whether you would bus at that point, you said that you would not because House was looking worse.
That means you considered him looking worse at that point. Where am I wrong?

If I was scum with dodgy. I would have used that to my advantage to push a townies miynch and it probably would have worked, especially since.people were suspicious of house. But to me at the Time I felt dodgys actions were scummier so I went after him

[Jake from State Farm]

umm who said i was going after him? i said i felt he was likely town?

Really? Damn thought you were

And I could see Jake being confused here as scum if they decided to go after me during night chat and dodgy deviated from it.

If I were scum I would have known what he was going to do before he did it, that's something I'm sure he would have talked about at night since he hamered and drew attention to himself.

[Jake from State Farm]

OK fine I misread that part. No, I was confused cause I misread his post.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake was already positioned to be "persuaded" to vote for me, as a review of his d1 posts show.

Except my d2 posts show clearly I wasn't going to be voting you so that theory is obviously wrong

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake was already positioned to be "persuaded" to vote for me, as a review of his d1 posts show.

Except my d2 posts show clearly I wasn't going to be voting you so that theory is obviously wrong

Which was directly contridictory to your d1 play.

My point exactly.

What could have possibly happened during that night phase to change your strategy so completely?

I don't think I was coming after you day1, so how was it contradictory?

[Jake from State Farm]

, even if the scum will succeed in lynching the other one of you today, he'll have to talk Zar into lynching me tomorrow to win. And as I see, it looks like everyone is considering me the towniest player here.
So, I have a question to both of you:

If you were scum and we'd lynch the other one today

Considering I've been hard townreading you for some time now, I'd be in a fix to try to do that.

Jake is the only possible scum in my book. All that would be left for me to say is PoE means it's you, and I'd be turbolynched after doing so.

Didn't your town read on him kinds come out of the blue? I'd have to go check but from what I remember it did

[Jake from State Farm]

Seriously? You think I'd have a snowball's chance in hell of convincing Zar you're scum? Wow.

Did you just expose your strategy?

[Jake from State Farm]

If I'm wrong and you are town, you at least jut admitted to going after the easier target instead of actually caring to find out who scum is.

[Jake from State Farm]

If I'm wrong and you are town, you at least jut admitted to going after the easier target instead of actually caring to find out who scum is.

No, I admitting to reading Nether as obvtown, which is no surprise to anyone.

But he actually isn't. Just cause pulindar and zar think that doesn't mean its the truth. I get you need to kiss ass to try and pull the win, but what happens tomorrow when its you vs him? You are done. If we lynch you today we can finally end this game.

[Jake from State Farm]

I haven't been keeping my options open, not even remotely

[Jake from State Farm]

If I'm wrong and you are town, you at least jut admitted to going after the easier target instead of actually caring to find out who scum is.

^ Scum keeping their options open.

Scum is one of Jake or i, period. No doubts about it.

Only Jake is trying to allow for scum being someone besides 1 of us.

No it isn't but nice try

[Jake from State Farm]

Being unsure =/= keeping options open

[Jake from State Farm]

The difference between you and I today is I was actually trying to figure out which one of you and nether was scum. You didn't even attempt to make it look like you cared. If you were town, I'd expect you to care.

[Jake from State Farm]

I didn't see the question. Tbh I have no idea.

[Jake from State Farm]

You mean if house is town.

And I don't use parananoia as a tactic when I'm scum, I'll attempt to make a case, there's certainly things I can point to as I have already, but this is pointless because I'm not scum and I certainly have done anything scum worthy. Nobody has even made even remotely close to a good case on why I'm scum, I at least made a case on house and it just got ignored.

[Jake from State Farm]

Well yeah if he's town by default you have to think I'm scum, I'm not though and again I haven't done anything scummy.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not saying house ignored anything, but pulindar certainly has and I don't feel like you gave much thought to it either and zar isn't here right now. Pulindar had his mind made up about me way before today, he doesnt even care about my case cause he just brushed it off as me misrepping, which I didn't do (or certainly don't feel I did). He obviously has a chip on his shoulder from when I accused him of it so I never stood a chance trying to convince him and he's untouchable so whatever.

It doesn't really matter what I say or do, pulindar isn't changing his vote and neither is house. Zar probably is going to vote me to so I don't really know what else I can do. Nobody's made a good case on me, at least pulindar tried when he came into the game, but that case was pretty well defended and shown to be completely inaccurate.

[Jake from State Farm]

but house doesn't even consider the possibility that nether could be scum. he basically changed his read on nether at some point to mirror what you and zar were thinking and when you both agreed that nether looks really town, he's now echoing the same thing.

at least I am keeping it real, nether isn't perfect. I saw a few things that gave me red flags about him. Could the be nothing? sure, could they mean he is scum? possible. I'm not kissing nether's ass because tbh I don't have to. Now go ask yourself why House is kissing nether's ass and you let me know when you figure it out. I already have and it's because

Spoiler:

House is scum

[Jake from State Farm]

House is trolling us, he wouldn't self hammer as town. Certainly not as the IC.

I'm not scum so if its not house, town is fucked tomorrow

[Jake from State Farm]

Well, since House and I are both dead now. Zar, I agree with House in lynching Jake tomorrow.

Jake makes the most sense for the NK on Neo, and he never did a real analysis of the NK on Brick. Also, I still don't like the method he used to go after your slot Zar.

Nether, If you are scum, Both House and I will be beating ourselves up with our terrible scumhunting. Still, I don't think you are and I'd like to see Jake lynched tomorrow.

You better start beating yourself up cause if house flips town, nether is scum. You have already showed bad scum hunting by thinking I could possibly be scum, espeiclaly with that bs case you made where you intentionally misrepred me. So yeah I'm fucked. Town loses if house is town

[Jake from State Farm]

Bye thanks for making it easier for nether to decide to kill, he's obviously not going to kill you pulidar. Thanks alot

[Jake from State Farm]

BTW*

[Jake from State Farm]

I still think house is flipping scum here. Still dont see why house would ever hammer as town

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not playing anything

[Jake from State Farm]

Thank you for the compliment, however I still am not scum.

Hopefully House is banned for a few months for being an IC because that self hammer was inexcusable. I will be reporting him to the newbie mod once this game is completed. To the newbies playing along, NEVER self hammer yourself as town. You shouldn't even self vote either but self hammers are bad.

vote: nether

[Jake from State Farm]

no my role pm says I am VT

[Jake from State Farm]

sometime tomorrow I will restate my points against you and also see if i can find anything else that helps prove you are scum.

p.edit - I didn't kill anyone.

[Jake from State Farm]

I guess you aren't even going to bother trying to scum paint me? I guess you don't have to when you think you have the game wrapped up. Also what happened to you going through pulindar's case and pointing out the things you agreed with?

to date nobody has been able to make a good case on why i am scum and now you are just calling me scum because of POE.

As I said yesterday, I have done nothing to deserve being scum read, I don't even think I have done anything remotely scummy other than my bouts of inactivity which were for legitimate reasons.

Oh and going back I guess I didn't really make a case on nether like I thought I did. The only thing I pointed out was his vote on prawn where he thought he was placing the L-1 vote which would have allowed Brick to hammer. Turns out he wasnt at L-1 but him not announcing it was bad. Hopefully I can find some relational tells between him and dodgy.

[Jake from State Farm]

Those were all legit and of course I don't expect the mod to confirm I pm'd him but I did and was kinda peeved he didn't post it in one of opening posts or in a VC. Work has been crazy for me in February. I did have a family emergency I did take a trip for my birthday, I do hate 2 hour delays because it screws my entire day, where as a day off school doesn't cause I have backup care. My dog did have to go to.the emergency vet after a night of vomiting.

That isn't alignment related, its real life. What I did.was nothing like what dodgy did. And yes that post does kinda look like I was trying to deflect from dodgy, but I was scum reading both players so what it actually was, is me saying I'm OK with either person.

I know you can't really trust me but when I bus somebody, I go all out (I can show you examples). I know how to make busses look legitimate. The only way busses work are to go hard core, kinda like how nether did.

If you want to lynch me cause my IRL was fucked up/busy, fine but I don't lurk on purpose. I despise that strategy even from scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

actually

@Mod: If House had three votes, but I unvoted, leaving him with only two; was he still going to be the plurality lynch for having received up to three votes, or would that have been a no-lynch?

Yes, as of VC 2.09 House would still have been the plurality lynch.

It's fairly obvious the roleblocker bussed. But which of you is the busser? :/

So, Jake voted House first which still gave him plurality; but then switched to dodgy, which is a better position for a goon to gain cred, I think. If I had not voted for dodgy and evened out the wagons instead, House would have still been lynched, right?

There's also this, and Jake asking the mod about Plurality makes me think the move to vote House was calculated, as dodgy would have been plurality lynched if Jake hadn't voted for House.

I asked about it cause I hadn't seen it in a vote count and wasn't sure if the rule had been removed. My vote on house I don't believe had any effect on who would have been lynched.

[Jake from State Farm]

At least house is here participating, even though he's playing sort of like how wake was playing in another game. Playing poorly either for the lulz or for idk.

Dodgy has been dodging the game all game long and failing to deliver on his promises. I'm sticking with my gut read on him

vote: dodgy

That's L-1 I believe

At this point house would have still been lynched. If.I was scum and I knew that, why would I vote dodgy instead of stall and wait for dodgy to come back? If yky think I was calculating pluarity, I would have known that and my Vote makes no sense.

[Jake from State Farm]

I guess but if I was scum worried about town cred, I would have hard bussed him. Kinds like what nether did. Nether got mad his buddy hammered so he planned to hard bus dodgy. That's what I would have done.

P.edit - clearly you have never seen me bus...

[Jake from State Farm]

And I did have a good reason for my dodgy scum read

[Jake from State Farm]

And I did have a good reason for my dodgy scum read

What was that reason?

Him claiming scum

[Jake from State Farm]

I guess but if I was scum worried about town cred, I would have hard bussed him. Kinds like what nether did. Nether got mad his buddy hammered so he planned to hard bus dodgy. That's what I would have done.

P.edit - clearly you have never seen me bus...

I thought you had said you didn't like to bus unless you were being bussed?

Idk if I said I don't like to bus unless I'm being busses, but I did say I don't like to bus in general. Doesn't mean I won't if I have to

[Jake from State Farm]

I will say from what I remember, it was a good case but I didn't click on the links or anything. I have been scum reading him myself. I'm not ready to drop a vote now though cause I've missed too much and want to be informed before moving my vote.

^ This is what you said. It doesn't sound like a committed scumread to me.

Why? Cause I wasn't caught up on the game at that point?

[Jake from State Farm]

And yes I.know you think I'm the last scum. I.don't.think I can even.change your mind at this point but doesn't mean I'm.going to stop trying.

[Jake from State Farm]

And I did have a good reason for my dodgy scum read

What was that reason?

Him claiming scum

You must be kidding.
1. Town can scumclaim during RVS as well. Scum is likelier to do it but it's not a 100% guarantee.
2. You said yourself that you've seen town doing that.
3. You said you don't want to lynch him based on that in #97.

I guess but if I was scum worried about town cred, I would have hard bussed him. Kinds like what nether did. Nether got mad his buddy hammered so he planned to hard bus dodgy. That's what I would have done.

P.edit - clearly you have never seen me bus...

I thought you had said you didn't like to bus unless you were being bussed?

Idk if I said I don't like to bus unless I'm being busses, but I did say I don't like to bus in general. Doesn't mean I won't if I have to

You said that you don't like to bus unless you're being bussed in another completed game.
I found it during my meta check on you and brought it up in #895. You admitted it's truth in #897.

1. OK fine I forgot I said that, but I was still trying to pressure him cause despite that, I was still scum reading him. When I went looking for games where town did it, I only found one but it was a completely different scenario.
2. Those links you posted aren't to the posts that prove your point, they are to us talking about my scum game supposedly matching my town game and I talk about how I'm trying to improve my play.

[Jake from State Farm]

And I did have a good reason for my dodgy scum read

What was that reason?

Him claiming scum

Under that logic, why didn't you vote Netherspite?

I.don't remember nether claiming he's scum. Where did he do that?

[Jake from State Farm]

Those links you posted aren't to the posts that prove your point, they are to us talking about my scum game supposedly matching my town game and I talk about how I'm trying to improve my play.

I see where you bring up the point, but I never admitted that was true. All I said is I don't see it as a viable strategy, though I have done it once or twice, no.where did I say that I only bus when being bussed.

I get I look bad for not being more aggressive in trying to lynch dodgy like you did. I get that I look bad for my vote and interest in trying to vote/Lynch house, but that doesn't make me scum. Your reason for voting dodgy was fairly weak way to weak for your insistence on keeping your vote on him. Your flop on house seems awfully from day 2, to day 3 also seems convenient, I guess you felt like you could you beat me in lylo over house? Idk.

[Jake from State Farm]

In this post you stated that you hate bussing and did it only because your partner bussed you.

So because in that game I did it, that means every time I bus is for the same reason? No

[Jake from State Farm]

In response you said in #897: "And you are correct, I hate bussing and don't feel like it is ever a viable strategy, though I have gotten away with it once or twice."

But that doesn't mean every time I've bussed it was because my partner was bussing me

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't get it. You said:
- that you hate bussing and do it only because your partner does;

You are taking something I did in 1 game and applying it to mean that every time I bus, its because my partner was bussing me. That's wrong for you to assume that, and terrible for you to imply I'm saying that.

And no, I haven't had time to go through the isos yet. Sometime today probably

[Jake from State Farm]

Your post in that game implied that only your partner bussing you may cause you to bus him because you hate bussing.
If there are other reasons that can be strong enough for you to overcome your hatred to bussing - elaborate please.

Correct, in THAT GAME, I decided to bus him back. There are other reasons to bus, like if I feel he's scum slipped, or is becoming a detriment to scum winning for example. You can't take something I did in 1 game and apply it to other games.

[Jake from State Farm]

And again, promising to do the analysis and never posting it.
You're too lazy to devote much time for this game since you're almost caught and don't see how you can make scum winning this?
Or may be you already did that "analysis" and didn't find anything to scumpaint me?

Damn this is a very manipulative post. Just cause I haven't had time to do it, doesn't mean I'm not going to. Relax homie, you are getting your scum win, don't need to try so hard.

[Jake from State Farm]

Your post in that game implied that only your partner bussing you may cause you to bus him because you hate bussing.
If there are other reasons that can be strong enough for you to overcome your hatred to bussing - elaborate please.

Correct, in THAT GAME, I decided to bus him back. There are other reasons to bus, like if I feel he's scum slipped, or is becoming a detriment to scum winning for example. You can't take something I did in 1 game and apply it to other games.

If you hate bussing so much you need really good reason to do it.
What was exact reason to bus

dodgy56

? He didn't scumslip and wasn't detriment to scum winning.

I didn't bus him, I'm.not scum. I see why you did though. His hammer was bad

[Jake from State Farm]

I also never really got the point of Jake's VCA on day two. What was that about.

Trying to find scum. Looking at vote positions and reasons for votes can sometimes be useful in finding scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

I only have one problem though....

I still think that, if had, hypothetically agreed, to let netherspite bus him on Night One, as partners, I don't think he would have continued his rhetoric on "if we lynch neo and he flips scum then Netherspite is confirmed town."
Because we already now neo was town. so dodgy's logical push and argument seem to be lining up mislynches.

He was trying to distance himself. Try to make sure there are no relational tells.

[Jake from State Farm]

I also never really got the point of Jake's VCA on day two. What was that about.

Why not combine data in the way that casts suspicion on those players who you want to mislynch?

Well that's a scummy way to twist vca.

[Jake from State Farm]

But you voted him for the hammer Jake, how is it different?

No I didn't