Newbie 1592: The Masquerade -- Game Over!

[Ilhom]

I've watched a lot of Mafia so I'm pretty excited for this.

I would pick vanilla town. Going in completely blind and trying to solve the puzzle of who is scum seems to be the most fun to me. Although I could see the excitement of the other roles too.

VOTE: juckter

Because why not

[Ilhom]

UNVOTE
VOTE: FUTAN

To see how he reacts to four people voting for him.

By my count there are only 3 votes on him, but the fact that you would be willing to put someone at L-1 this early concerns me especially in a game with new players. If that were the case all it would take is one dumb town to quick lynch someone with very little information, thus making them look extremely suspicious going in to the next day if the lynch turned up town. It would leave town in a very awkward position. A dumb mafia could also make the play but it would just be suicide for them at that point.

[Ilhom]

VOTE: Ilhom because that picture of Donald Duck definitely makes it look like he killed someone.

UNVOTE
VOTE: FUTAN

To see how he reacts to four people voting for him.

By my count there are only 3 votes on him, but the fact that you would be willing to put someone at L-1 this early concerns me especially in a game with new players. If that were the case all it would take is one dumb town to quick lynch someone with very little information, thus making them look extremely suspicious going in to the next day if the lynch turned up town. It would leave town in a very awkward position. A dumb mafia could also make the play but it would just be suicide for them at that point.

So do you think it's scum or town?

An ambitious scum who unknowingly puts the spotlight on themselves early or a town that isn't entirely sure how the game works. Still neutral on her until I see more play because I could see people claiming ignorance in these games saying that they don't know better so they can slide through the game.

[Ilhom]

An ambitious scum who unknowingly puts the spotlight on themselves early or a town that isn't entirely sure how the game works. Still neutral on her until I see more play because I could see people claiming ignorance in these games saying that they don't know better so they can slide through the game.

He's clearly aware of the concept of L-1 though, and he unvotes because he doesn't want a mislynch

Right pistachi0n?

That was my thought when I first saw the original post, and the fact she unvoted was comforting so it makes me want to learn more towards the town who isn't entirely sure how the game works. I am still neutral towards her because it doesn't take away the fact that, as a scum, she can make that play and possibly claim ignorance of a new player. I do like her 41

[Ilhom]

Could you expand on the Hmph, Megalo? I want to know what you think about pistachi0n so far.

[Ilhom]

Some Easter catch up
I haven't quite like Tatsuya's play either, as explained by earlier posts. No real content as of yet.
I'm also a bit disappointed Tetaes hasn't made his post yet. He seemed eager to do it but we still have nothing.
Current town read is Xayzeck. I like how he's actively poking around to everyone trying to add information to the game.

Futan, why do you have town feels on Nero and juckter?
juckter, how do you feel about Megalo?
pistachi0n, what do you think about the people who have been discussing about you?

[Ilhom]

The vote was bad, as putting someone to L-1 just because is just ridiculous. The unvote was just as bad because he unvoted since it wasn't L-1, but his excuse is valid.

What excuse?

This one

In the beginning of the game, I didn't realize that random voting with baseless accusations was part of the fun until it was pointed out to me after I made that post about not wanting to vote. Then I thought I'd join in on the fun, but not if someone was actually going to get lynched.

It's random voting, so you can't really blame him for not picking up on when that part ends in the first game. What is bad is when people are questioning him for random votes whose reasoning is literally just baseless accusations that mean nothing.

This part of 94 confuses me a bit. I don't think anyone is blaming her for casting a vote at the end of RVS. It was all about her willingness to put someone at L-1, which at that point I wouldn't necessarily call random even if it is considered during RVS because there was at least some sort of motive, whether town or scum. Her first vote was also on me, then it jumped to Futan. So if it wasn't random, then it would be fair to question her, no? Would this also make the excuse you had in mind invalid?

[Ilhom]

I can't imagine juckter being a good lynch today unless he makes some ridiculous play, so time to get rid of that vote from RVS.
UNVOTE: juckter
VOTE: Tetaes

Firstly, I don't like where town is heading Xayzeck. He is my town read and I don't think his reactions to Nero's pressure is desperate. It honestly just seems like his personality by reading through his previous posts. So for me I actually see his reaction as even more towny. I get a real sense of frustration from his posts. I'm also not convinced that he was intentionally trying to misrep pistachi0ns. He phrased it as a question and all pistachi0n had to do was clarify, and if he continued to push for the misrep then that would have been suspicious. Even when Nero clarified he even said 114.

I wasn't a fan of Nero early in the day. As an IC I didn't feel like he was doing a whole lot so that made me a bit worried. With recent events I like him a lot more even though he pressured my town read. His pressuring on Xayzeck is most definitely gonna get this game rolling at a better pace for town.

Right now I think Tetaes would be the best lynch of the day. I wasn't liking his demeanor throughout the game but 103 is what got me on board. Earlier in the game he went on how there would be paragraphs of information for us. What he gave us was no real analysis of the posts he quoted. He's also suspicious about Stabulous and puts his vote on him. At this point I imagine one scum between the two based on Tatsuya's play, but Stabulous is neutral for me. I really didn't like the end of the post where he says he has other stuff but it's super opinion based but doesn't want to share to give scum more information. Tetaes is depriving town of his reads on things which is only going to make the game harder as town on how to read him and his relationship towards others. The statement itself is just weird to me too, it's like as a scum, I could say I would share more information but I don't those damn scums to use it against me! It's like some weird indirect defense of him saying he's not mafia.

[Ilhom]

Other than Xayzeck I'm reading town on juckter. I could see myself also voting for Stabulous and pistachi0n today but I would need a bit convincing if it were to happen in the games current state.
Nero and Megalo. I feel neutral between these. Nero I've explained before and I have the same thought on Megalo as juckter does.
Futan I have a weak town read on because Tatsuya also rubbed me the wrong way. My only difference is that I've liked Stabulous's entry in to this game, but I appreciate Futan's pressure on his previous suspicions of Tatsuya.

[Ilhom]

Alright, Time to do a little catchup.
...

Sooooo, Nothing too important, Eh?
Anyways, I probably wouldn't change my mind about Stabulous.
Also, any questions directly to me?
Because, I think I'm not really going to post anything for a whilw since I'm really busy and that my mind would probably not change except something really important happens.

Nothing too important? Have you read the thread? 2 new votes on you and some others scum leaning you. There has been at least 1 question for you from this post 153
There have been some important things happening too like Nero's pressure on Xayzeck with a couple quick fired votes, along with Futan and Stabulous going at it. Can you give us something more? What do you think of the other people in this game? Me, Megalo, Nero, juckter etc etc

[Ilhom]

Expand on your scum read on me Nero

[Ilhom]

and on Megalo

[Ilhom]

Ok then reverse what I said. Why do you not see either of us as towny? Even under POE there must be a reason why we aren't seen as towny.

[Ilhom]

Ok then reverse what I said. Why do you not see either of us as towny? Even under POE there must be a reason why we aren't seen as towny.

Do yo even know what POE is? Like Meg has done shit all this game (and his second rvs type vote on Futan is pretty awkward). I'd have said that you are town "towniest" of my scumreads.

Process of elimination but I guess I had a different thought process through it but your final statement makes sense for that then. My bad.

I included Megalo because I remember Nero not having any sort of real interaction with Megalo before and looked back at his posts real quick and saw nothing but a jokey 8 shot vigi post and a useless question. I wanted some form of relationship established between the two before the day ended since they were both of my more neutral reads. I honestly don't like the people thinking it's weird that I was asking about Megalo and as you can see the post times I asked about him literally within the minute of the first because I had the realization as I posted it.

You can call it an action you don't like Maxwell but it was me trying to make sense of my neutral reads.

[Ilhom]

I agree with Xayzeck that it is very unlikely that there is no scum on the wagon to kill Tetaes. With Maxwell dead, that leaves me, Stabulous, and Futan. That means there is going to be a scum between Stabulous and Futan. With the interaction they had yesterday along with the incorrect mod VC where Tatsuya would have put Futan at L-1, I don't see a world where they are both scum. Makes much more sense if the other scum didn't vote to keep a distance.

I don't see any of Futan's play as scummy. Stabulous on the other hand on 230 states we shouldn't wait any longer for Tetaes and pushes for the hammer. The person that was intending to hammer was pistachi0n. I think that after he pointed out that her votes were very flimsy he thought he could easily get her vote without allowing Tetaes to possibly give us real reads or a possible claim. He defends that stance saying we will get valuable information from the wagon which would happen regardless of letting Tetaes to post or not.

VOTE: Stabulous

[Ilhom]

I'm not talking about his flip I'm talking about your urge for her to hammer him before letting him defend himself or possibly claim. There was almost no scenario where he would live unless he claimed a PR or had a near perfect defense because practically everyone had Tetaes on their scum list, and it seemed to be the consensus that he would be the best lynched.

[Ilhom]

That is literally the most anti town thing ever.

I'll tell you why.
If he claimed a PR with no CC, then we would have a confirmed town. You saw who was on the wagon and you saw who was going to hammer. That information wasn't going to change if pistachi0n hammered or not, and if some random person came in for the quick hammer for a PR then that would be amazing for town since that person would have to be mafia. We would have saved a lynch against a confirmed town and use it to possibly hit a mafia. The mafia would also be forced to kill off the PR because it just provides town with too much information. With town looking for a new person to lynch we would see one maybe even two new wagons form and that would provide us with so much more information going into day 2 versus what we have now.

[Ilhom]

He couldn't pistachi0n he already had a vote on Tetaes.

[Ilhom]

lying is scummy. Lying about basic game knowledge is just stupid.

You seem fluttered now that you're insulting me.

[Ilhom]

So now you claim hammering you before you get to post is a scum claim, but encouraging someone to do so the day before isn't?

[Ilhom]

No one specifically just talking in a general sense, pistachi0n.

[Ilhom]

Yeah but Maxwell responded asking her to wait and she was willing to do so. The reason for the hour is because she saw Tetaes was online that day but decided not to post. I can understand her mind frame there. Stab didn't have any other reason than he thought that town would be in an amazing position based off Tetaes's interactions with people that day based on his flip. No that he's flipped, he still hasn't given us this valuable information to put town in that amazing position.

Beside that, do you not see his posts today as scummy? Would lynch him even if he still claimed a PR with no CC along with his contradiction a few posts ago?

[Ilhom]

I'm gonna also assume you believe there is a scum in between the 3 of us that voted for Tetaes. Why Futan?

[Ilhom]

No that post helps my argument. He says we should let him claim and post reads before a hammer, but sets a time limit of when we should hammer. Everyone should know that Tetaes lurked hard and got prodded twice. That makes it easy to push for a hammer without allowing a real defense or a possible claim on someone who had very low activity. It's like an easy fallback for him to go to if need be. "Look everyone, I even prefaced my pressure by saying we should only wait 24h."

If Tet didn't self hammer pistachi0n was pretty convinced to. Every person in this game saw Tetaes as scummy and I honestly did not see him living through any defense that wasn't a PR claim with no CC. It's very hard not seeing Tetaes die that day otherwise. I'm not sure if you think I'm blaming Stabulous for Tetaes's self-hammer? That's completely irrelevant if so. The only thing I'm blaming Stabulous for is scummy play.

For the sake of my sanity explain this to me. How is it not scummy for someone to lynch a person who claims a PR with no CC on day 1, a position very far away from lylo?

[Ilhom]

The only thing I'm blaming Stabulous for is scummy play

Can you sum up what he's done thats "scummy". I could be misunderstanding the argument here but it seems you are saying Stab is scummy b/c he wanted to hammer Tet but Tet self hammered without claiming and thus its all stabs fault.

255. Read to 264. I'll phrase it a bit different here.
He pushes for pistachi0n's hammer on Tetaes without allowing Tetaes to even post anything. I believe he thought pistachi0n would do it then because he described her votes as flimsy earlier in the day. At that point Stabulous was so certain that the game would be easy for town if Tetaes was just dead. His reads or possible claim were not needed, apparently. In no way am I even addressing Tetaes's self hammer.

Now in 277 he says it's a scum claim if he gets hammered before he can make his post tonight. Yet, he pushed for a hammer on Tetaes yesterday before he could post.

Stabulous made an arbitrary time frame of posting in a few hours and it's been five hours. I don't think we need to wait longer than that. The risk that he's town is low, but if he is we have substantial information from his wagon. Wait that sounds awfully familiar.... 230. That post is just ridiculous and screams scum to me.

How is it not scummy for someone to lynch a person who claims a PR with no CC on day 1, a position very far away from lylo?

Who claimed to have a pr on d1?

A hypothetical from 255-264. Stabulous said he would still lynch Tetaes even if Tetaes claimed. I say that a PR with no CC is a confirmed town for the day in this format. He dismisses me and calls me stupid. Pistachi0n pointed that out as something you didn't like of Xayzeck: dismissive, let alone insulting.

[Ilhom]

Will post in an hour or two. Also I'm not sure if it matters, but do you need to properly spell the person's name for a vote? So pistachi0n instead of Pistachio.

[Ilhom]

I don't believe you can't tell the difference between lynching a habitual lurker who has given every intention of never posting anything useful without waiting for a post and lynching someone who has promised content and has delivered on promises in the past without waiting for a post.

I can but that doesn't change the fact that a claim was possible. It could have resulted in an easy PR kill whilst mafia could make a shot at another if one existed. In no way is it a towny move to not allow a possible claim.

If he claimed JK/Cop with no CC he would be conf-town, but I've seen too many games where scum gets lucky with an early Doc/BP claim (they have a better chance at guessing because they have setup knowledge) and is regarded as conf-town for the whole game.
Let me repeat that: Scum has set-up knowledge and can find very good odds to make a claim that can't be CC'd. That's part of the design of Matrix6. Calling someone conf-town because their doc or BP claim was uncontested is, well, lying about basic gameknowledge.

You also need to learn to distinguish between "bad at mafia" and "scummy". You can accuse me of being bad at mafia for lynching someone who claims a PR if you like, that's your prerogative. But what on earth do I gain as scum from admitting I would have lynched someone who claimed doc? How is that alignment-indicative?

The possibility of him having JK/Cop still existed. All I said earlier was a PR with no CC and you said you still lynch him. You say that JK/Cop would be confirmed town, so would you still lynch him if he claimed either of those with no CC? Not calling you bad at mafia, I'm saying you not allowing a possible claim is scummy, even if he didn't play like a PR. Literally no reason as a town to lynch him without allowing him to claim, but there is a reason for a mafia.

[Ilhom]

An issue I have with your analysis is with juckter. Xayzeck and Nero you have as egging, but not juckter even though he had Tetaes as a scum lean and even said that Tetaes would be the best lynch of the day. Can you point out their egging that juckter didn't do?

[Ilhom]

He was never going to claim. I was asking him for a claim for a full two days, during which he logged in to mafiascum and check the thread. If he didn't claim then, I wasnt going to pay much mind to whatver bullshit claim came next.

You cannot tell me he wasn't going to claim. There is no way you can have 100% certainty that he wouldn't.
You did not ask for two full days. 198 then 202. About 30 hours.
Pistachi0n mentioned him being online after you made your post urging for the hammer. You made no mention of it before.

Right so if he did claim JK/Cop with no CC you weren't going to pay much mind to it and just lynch him? Somehow that would be a bullshit claim?

[Ilhom]

He pushes for pistachi0n's hammer on Tetaes without allowing Tetaes to even post anything.

no

Yes. 230. That is clearly a push for the hammer. Tetaes had made no posts since he was L-1 at this point.

Tet, you're at L-1. You should post all of your current reads in case you end up being lynched. If you're a PR, claim it when someone announces intent to hammer.

Are you even around right now?

If Tet had flipped scum I *might* consider this coaching but I think this whole "oh Stab didn't give Tet a chance" is proven false.

You misrepresent what I'm trying to say again. A push for the hammer on Tetaes before he could post is scummy. There is NO reason why a town should push for that there. Town gains NOTHING, but mafia do.

I intend to hammer. I will not cast my vote until someone acknowledges that they have seen this post.

Here pist claims intent to hammer and seemingly doesn't care if Tet claims or anything. How is this different than what you are claiming stab did?

It's different because she recognized it should wait and said 203. She didn't just push for the hammer immediately which would have been scummy. Instead she would wait until Tetaes posts.

but both

I see it, but I think we should let him claim and post reads before you hammer. Can you wait 24h?

Yes. I will wait until he says something.

seem to be willing to let Tet claim and jazz. Of the two Stab is the townier of the two. This continues to disprove your argument.

Apparently you ignored my explanation of this post earlier.

I looked on Tet's profile and he was online this morning, which was after he was put at L-1, and didn't post anything to defend himself.

I am willing to hammer in one hou

r unless
a) Someone has already hammered first
b) Tetaes logs on and sufficiently defends himself
c) Nobody has acknowledged this post.

Here pist is doing exactly what you are accusing Stab of doing. Point B kinda points to her not doing that but meh.

Someone hammers first - not her fault.
Tetaes logs on and actually posts - very good.
Nobody acknowledges the post - just ask her to wait for Tetaes post. This is the only questionable one but she saw that Tetaes was online that morning and didn't post, so it seemed unlikely that he was a PR. I would disagree with this but at least this has some sort of weight to it instead of Stabulous's "This game will be super easy for town no matter how Tetaes's flips." Also, if she was scum she could have just agreed with Stabulous and just dropped the hammer.

I want to hammer Tet. I said 24h and I don't think we need to wait longer than that

This is apparently your point but I really don't get the "ZOMG he tried to get pist to hammer him before he could do anything." Tet had his chance do do something to change their minds in 187 but he didn't do anything.

Tl;dr
nothing in the thread supports your argument.

Tetaes wasn't at L-1 at that point, and he could have been completely unsure or nervous on what to do at L-2. Regardless, this is completely irrelevant to my point.

[Ilhom]

Tetaes wasn't at L-1 at that point, and he could have been completely unsure or nervous on what to do at L-2. Regardless, this is completely irrelevant to my point.

He was. Tet was also at L-1 when he asked for the 24h window to respond. He dropped to L-2 then got back to L-1.

Your first post today is this? Not only are you completely wrong but the point Nero was making was irrelevant to my main argument against Stabulous.

187
192
194

You cannot find Tetaes at L-1 before that.

Yes. 230. That is clearly a push for the hammer. Tetaes had made no posts since he was L-1 at this point.

Oh nvm you knew lol

Knew what?

[Ilhom]

I like this case

What case?

Your first post today is this? Not only are you completely wrong but the point Nero was making was irrelevant to my main argument against Stabulous

Derped on the L-1 thing.

Your point is that Stab didn't let Tet post before wanting hammer, right? Stab gave a 24h window, and when Tet failed he wants hammer. So did pist.

Let me see if this is right, you think Stab is scum because even though he gave Tet a chance, in the end Tet didn't post so that's about the same that's about the same as not actually giving Tet the chance to defend himself?

I feel like a broken record at this point and after this just iso me and really try to comprehend on what I'm saying.

286 explains my view on the 24 hour window. 322 talks about pistachi0n wanting to hammer, I just see most of her play as scared new town play. After reading that, understand that there is literally no reason as a town that you would want someone to get lynched before they have a chance to claim, but there is a reason for a mafia.

[Ilhom]

Also, if she was scum she could have just agreed with Stabulous and just dropped the hammer.

No, she couldn't have. It'd be completely out of character. I mentioned this in my earlier post, Pistachio is not exonerated for not taking the easy lynch- she can't even vote someone for two hours in a row, saying "eh yeah good point" and hammering would have (at least in her mind) been suspicious.

Exonerated for not taking the easy lynch? I must have missed when this was mentioned?

[Ilhom]

juckter and pistachi0n can you both post your reads?
Nero, can you point out the specific posts today that you find scummy of Futan and tell us why?

[Ilhom]

fter reading that, understand that there is literally no reason as a town that you would want someone to get lynched before they have a chance to claim, but there is a reason for a mafia.

So let's say you're mafia, you outright say to town that you want to lynch this person whatever he claims, even if it's a PR.

Which alignment is more likely to say that, regardless whether they will get a claim?

Him saying he would lynch a PR isn't my argument and I don't think it's something that is entirely alignment indicative, although I disagree with the play in most day 1 scenarios.

Overall reads:
Ilhom - Null, I don't like your Stab case, seems nonsensical to me. Please explain it like I'm 5.

290

[Ilhom]

Sorry about my lack of content, next few days will be busy for me too so I'm going to post a lengthy analysis. Enjoy the wall.

In a world where Stabulous is scum:
Town: Ilhom, pistachi0n, Futan
Futan and Stabulous's previous interactions, Futan putting Stabulous at L-1 early in the day, and him being the other vote on Tetaes after mafia made a night kill within the votes makes me believe they cannot be mafia partners.
I also cannot see Stabulous deflecting off himself to start a wagon on pistachi0n early in this day if they were partners. Along with pistachi0n wanting him dead.

This leaves Xayzeck, juckter, and Nero.
juckter is the second vote on pistachi0n. If he was scum I would expect him to keep a distance from Stabulous and vote on Futan, which is what Nero and Xayzeck both did. His general play has also been towny.
Xayzeck has been my towniest read for this game, although he's been sitting back a lot more this day. Nothing he's done seems scummy to me though.
Nero would probably be #2 mafia in this scenario. He came out to defend Stabulous, then puts his vote on Futan to try to distance himself from Stabulous. Him trying to discredit my argument was extremely weak after he tried to misrepresent what I was saying.

--------

If I'm wrong on Stabulous:
Town: Ilhom, Stabulous, Xayzeck, juckter
Obviously if I'm wrong on Stabulous then he's town.
Xayzeck and juckter I both read as town, and can't really find anything inherently scummy about either.

This leaves Futan, Nero, and pistachi0n.
This means there would be a combination of Futan/pistachi0n or Nero/pistachi0n. I could see it going either way.

--------

If Xayzeck and juckter both vote for pistachi0n, I will hammer.
If I'm wrong and she flips mafia, then it's most likely Futan or Nero as 2nd scum which backs up my Xayzeck and juckter town read. The reason is that if Xayzeck is somehow mafia he could just disagree with the pistachi0n lynch and just sit on his Futan vote (which could happen if he's town, too). Plus, he would had to set up a pretty early bus since he had a early vote on pistachi0n yesterday and still has suspicions on her. juckter is in a similar case, early scum lean on her along with his vote on her during RVS. All of that combined with their towny play, I don't see either being partners with pistachi0n especially if they both vote on her since they know I will hammer.

Now if I'm right and pistachi0n flips town, that would be okay because it would confirm that Stabulous is mafia and deflected onto pistachi0n, a person a good chunk of people had suspicion on yesterday, for the easy miss lynch. Nero would be the most likely second mafia here as stated before. juckter I can't see being the partner in this case because I would expect him to distance himself from Stabulous with his vote after putting a FoS on him. It's actually possible Xayzeck could be the second mafia in this scenario which is the thing I'm most afraid of.

[Ilhom]

Still been busy. Will post tonight (~8 hours) after work.

[Ilhom]

Xay's reactions to Stab voting him earlier seem natural enough to not see it as bussing.

I disagree. He had a pretty natural reaction to Stabulous voting on him by calling Nero's argument stupid. I don't think that single interaction clears them of potentially being partners, even though I agree it's more on the unlikely side.

Ok so if I take Juckters list and parse it from my point of view
Stabulous: Nero
Ilhom: pistachi0n, Xayzeck, Nero
pistachi0n: Ilhom, Xayzeck, Nero
Nero: Stabulous, pistachi0n, Ilhom
Xayzeck: Ilhom, pistachi0n

Ilhom and pistachio top the numbers.

Somehow Nero is not topping it with us? Regardless, however many potential scum buddies you have is not alignment indicative.

Lynch: Nero, Pistachio

Could Lynch: Ilhom, Xay

Don't Lynch: Futan, Juckter

I think Nero slipped yesterday. Reaction testing would not justify the risk of more or less immediate loss by doctor claiming. The comment was pretty clearly a call for a doctor claim, and the argument "Oh I just meant in general" doesn't make sense to me.

UNVOTE:

I know it's cutting it close and I still want to lynch Pistach0 today, but we have time for responses about Nero that I need.

I'm not quite sure what to make of these posts right now, but I do find them interesting. Could you explain why you "need" the responses about Nero?

[Ilhom]

Word choice is what made me question it. You already have Nero on your lynch list, plus if you turn up scum he seems like the most likely partner to me. Him and Futan are also on juckter's list. So you unvoting pitachi0n because you "need" to see other's reactions seems a bit interesting. I feel like if it was anyone else I would consider that you're town, but since it's Nero I'm not sure.

I'm indifferent about his statement. I didn't think it was a slip at the time, but your justification as to why it was is a fair point.

[Ilhom]

I'm in the same boat as juckter. Not against Nero lynch but the POE I had earlier would make pistachi0n the optimal lynch if Stabulous is town which is something that seems more likely as of right now.

I will hammer her after she gives us reads.

[Ilhom]

VOTE: pistachi0n

[Ilhom]

Don't misrepresent what I said. I didn't say he was town. I said it was a more likely scenario that pistachi0n was scum over him considering how Stabulous just flipped on Nero. I don't see him doing that to his partner (which I had from my POE) when Stabulous wasn't in real danger of being lynched at that point. Plus a majority had Stabulous on their town list so he could have possibly switched the wagon from pistachi0n to Nero. It would have left juckter/Xayzeck as the other partner, which seemed less likely than me being wrong on my read and pistachi0n being scum. I didn't want a Nero lynch because I was confident pistachi0n/Stabulous were the best two. That is what I got out of their interaction after Stabulous changed his vote and asked why Xayzeck wasn't voting too. Before the vote changed I wasn't entirely sure of what I thought of it: 423.

Pretty confident Nero is the lynch today. Going to ISO for a while and provide more info.

FoS: Nero

[Ilhom]

Posting to say I'm here. Got caught up with end of semester stuff. Will try to post tomorrow after work

[Ilhom]

OKAY things have been crazy I am free today going to do my isos

[Ilhom]

With Nero being scum Futan is most likely town due to the constant push onto him. It's possible his very early pressure on Xayzeck could have been a chance at distancing themselves since it was a silly reason. I'm not counting out juckter as a possibility either. So Xayzeck/juckter as potential partner.

juckter can you point out an instance in this game where you initiated pressure on someone and you didn't just sit back and agree with what someone else said?

Enomis reads will help a lot since he's town in my world.

[Ilhom]

This is really inexcusable for me as an IC. Though I'm not so bullish on Xay being scum right now so poe says scum are Futan and Ilhom. Discuss.

Lynch a town and lose the game. No thanks.

[Ilhom]

@ilhom

but why is nero scum?

What happened to the analysis u did for the following post:
post 386 where u say if stab flip town, me and nero are scum team.(since pista is town)
post 255 ur wagon analysis.
Ur analysis seems to me that it is quite consistent to you that i am scum. So why i am town just because of nero's push on me? I think u made the post 386 analysis when nero was already pushing on me.

Why vote Nero after asking why he is scum?
I see him as scum after his extremely poor attempt to defend Stabulous after completely misrepresenting what I was trying to say. I tell him he's just straight up wrong and he just backs away from it. It's obvious buddying at this point since Stabulous died in the night.

My post 386 said pistachi0n was teamed with either of you. I find it more likely that I'm wrong on Xayzeck or juckter than you two being a team. Because then Nero would have to do some serious bussing in this game.
About post 255 I've come to the realization that it's possible no scum were on it. Tetaes was an extremely easy lynch and it would have been easy for the team to sit back and not vote.
My scenarios that I pose have your slot in POE, but I find the play less scummy than the others.

[Ilhom]

281
322

begins around 281 ends at 322

[Ilhom]

He was the first one to come out to defend Stabulous, in a more awkward way than others.

[Ilhom]

I tell him he's just straight up wrong and he just backs away from it.

This never happened btw. Show me what you think is me backing down.

You never addressing my post where I point out that you ignored one of my previous posts, misrepresented another one, and also brought up an irrelevant point. You avoided it.

I just remembered about 393. Funny

[Ilhom]

If not could you link me to where he back away.
Whats with the buddying and stab dieing??

281
322

begins around 281 ends at 322

[Ilhom]

It wasn't an issue of you agreeing with my case or not. Once again you're just bringing up useless things. I'm talking about you misrepresenting and ignoring posts for an attempt to defend Stabulous. It was a poor defense in hopes you could buddy up with him.

As far as the backing off goes, the town motivation should be you wanting to know exactly what I mean and try to understand my point. I told you you misrepresented what I said, I said you brought up an irrelevant point, I said you ignored one of my previous posts. From a town perspective, why would you just back off and ignore my post, then disagree with me after you clearly didn't understand what I was saying.

In case you couldn't put together the main post I'm talking about 322. Since you know, the last post would be the indicator of you backing off.

Another good part from that post

He pushes for pistachi0n's hammer on Tetaes without allowing Tetaes to even post anything.

no

Yes. 230. That is clearly a push for the hammer. Tetaes had made no posts since he was L-1 at this point.

Just reply with no and can't even give a post number, and he was clearly wrong on it if you click my post and just scroll back.

Xayzeck or juckter either of you ready to vote on this guy yet?

[Ilhom]

Oh my god you are SO ridiculous. Once you again, whether I was right or wrong or whether you disagree or agree is irrelevant. I just said this in my last post. It was about your pathetic defense in misrepresenting what I'm saying. I feel like a broken record, and yet you do it AGAIN.

Instead she would wait until Tetaes posts.

Which she did not actually say. She said if

SOMEBODY

acknowledges this post.

Another blatant lie and taking my post out of context. Let us look at the full quote, shall we?

I intend to hammer. I will not cast my vote until someone acknowledges that they have seen this post.

Here pist claims intent to hammer and seemingly doesn't care if Tet claims or anything. How is this different than what you are claiming stab did?

It's different because she recognized it should wait and said 203. She didn't just push for the hammer immediately which would have been scummy. Instead she would wait until Tetaes posts.

Just in case you refuse to click the post 203

Yes. I will wait until he says something.

[Ilhom]

Yes. I will wait until he says something.

With Nero being scum Futan is most likely town due to the constant push onto him. It's possible his very early pressure on Xayzeck could have been a chance at distancing themselves since it was a silly reason. I'm not counting out juckter as a possibility either. So Xayzeck/juckter as potential partner.

What?

I believe that was juckter's reasoning for originally not having you as partners. I don't think it's a strong enough reason for me to rule out the possibility.

[Ilhom]

I find it more likely he's the partner with Nero right now.

[Ilhom]

As in he I mean juckter, sorry

[Ilhom]

Apparently she did care or else she would have just hammered LMAO. I explained all of that earlier too.

I can't handle this man can we please just kill this guy

[Ilhom]

I believe that was juckter's reasoning for originally not having you as partners. I don't think it's a strong enough reason for me to rule out the possibility.

I'm not sure I follow what you were saying in the quote, got lost by the last 2 lines, can you be a bit clearer?

Also, juckterscum with Nero?

Nero's pressure on you during day 1 made you guys seem like unlikely partners. It could be a possibility of Nero distancing himself from you if you guys were partners. His pressure on you had a fairly silly reason so I feel like it would have been easy for him to back off at any point and say you were town. It also could have been an attempt of buddying. I don't think that Nero's pressure on you was a strong enough reason for you guys to not be potential partners. That pressure on day 1 is why juckter had you two has unlikely partners. That clear enough?

Yes, juckter seems like the more reasonable partner right now. Kills Stabulous then comes into this day throwing scum onto me. I'm pretty sure I'm the first person he has jumped on this game which is why I asked earlier if he did so to anyone else earlier. Every other time he pressured someone, some other person already started the pressure. Pretty consistent pattern and it's possible he's egging on from the side line. I asked him if he could provide an example for me and he just dodged the question, or misunderstood what I was getting at.

[Ilhom]

This should clear a Ilhom/Xay scumteam right

Explain this post? Both why you think this should clear this team that no one has proposed, and why you think this is important.

I'm going out tonight with friends. Won't be able to post for about 18 hours.

[Ilhom]

Pretty much just poe. Other than that, he and your predecessor failed to interact until really late in the game, which would seem unlikely if both of you were town. And your predecessor's interaction s have eliminated almost all of the potential buddies, except maybe him. Either way, he is scum.

??? Why is it weird. Lets say i am scum and ilhom is town. Does him not interacting with me make him scum? *Town Ilhom doesn't know i am scum or town but doesn't interact with me* If it is possible for him not to interact with me as town, why is it not possible/ unlikely that we are both town? I don't get the logic. Sometimes people just tend to ignore one guy(not purposely).

Annnddd, why is nero town?

It is weird. Why would two town players decide to not try to directly interact with each other when interacting is vital for gaining information? Plus, looling at their isos, their reads for each other weren't strong enough to justify that by "oh he was sure he was town". Futan voting for Ilhom pretty much discounts that possibility.

96. hey bro I tried but he never responded

[Ilhom]

@537: Since it's the only possible scumteam, we're at this point where Nero is pretty much confscum from your POV, and he willbe 100% confscum once I can catch Juckter online and clear Juck/Xay.

How can you be 100% on him if

I'm cool with ruling our Ilhom/Nero, not at all cool with ruling out Ilhom/Juckter

[Ilhom]

How can you be 100% on him if

oh yeah I forgot about that, that's true

So there's 2 more possible teams?

2 more? Ilhom/juckter and....?

[Ilhom]

I wanted to wait until Xayzeck or juckter decided to vote too, which doesn't matter all that much at this point. More importantly I want juckter to post more before Nero dies. 530 I want him to respond to that. Also, how can he consider a Xay/enomis but not a Xay/Nero? 513 explains my Xay/Nero and why I think juckter is wrong on that. That would be the only interaction that could potentially clear the two as partners (and I don't think it does) if he could consider Xayzeck as mafia, which he did with Xay/enomis team.

[Ilhom]

Ilholm is going to vote me 'cause I thought his Stab case was poor

it's like you don't even read my posts

[Ilhom]

It matters because juckter wants to kill me because of his poe, so I want him to respond to you saying his poe argument isn't true.

[Ilhom]

It matters because juckter wants to kill me because of his poe, so I want him to respond to you saying his poe argument isn't true.

ehhhh....? I think that you are thinking too much. If juckter is scum and wants to kill you, he will kill you anyway regardless or whether he admits his post is poe or not. And i don't get why he would want to kill you.

I don't think I am. I just want to see where his head is at since he hasn't posted in a while before I vote on Nero. That's all.

[Ilhom]

iholm, nutshell case on me.

496

[Ilhom]

Posting to say I am alive. I actually meant I read Xay as null earlier (D1), and my read hadn't changed since then. Anyways, my argument for saying either of Ilhom or enomis is scum is pretty stupid as I failed to read when Ilhom tried to talk to Futan (which is still not much interaction, but whatever).

So I guess if I had to choose between Nero and enomis as enomis is asking me to, I'm more willing to lynch Nero. He seems to have been flailing for a while now. Anyways, busy day, I'll try to come back later.

You read him as null and that hasn't changed?
445

[Ilhom]

Expected more, but whatever lets get this rollin

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Ilhom]

Actually that question is for everyone

Will drop hammer after responses

To scout out who to kill for the night and position your self for day 4 LYLO?

is that question inherently scummy? Could it help town tomorrow too?

[Ilhom]

Aren't the pairs formed from scum buddies who are ruled out? I feel like it matters more on the basis of how you form the buddies rather than just making a blanket statement like that.

Also explain the difference between ruling out two people from being partners without a flip, versus two people being partners without a flip.

[Ilhom]

I will say it wasn't "suddenly" because of 420 and 423 which as I thought about it more it started to seem more likely he was town at the time.

Anyway I'm leaning more towards juckter. Killing Stab then jumping onto me immediately I didn't like too much. Poor D3 made me possibly think he gave up or something since his partner was going to die. Also the ride or die on me and not reevaluting his POE from D2 I didn't like either.

Nero self hammering before Xayzeck can answer eno's question seems like it could imply they are partners? Seems a bit unlikely.

[Ilhom]

Xayzeck does that quote somehow help your juckter scum read?

[Ilhom]

juckter you said you would be more willing to lynch Nero, but I feel like you made no townie contributions or sought out information like you did on other days. Can you sum up your thought process throughout D3?

[Ilhom]

Not too sure what to ask.

For both of you, is there anything Nero did that makes you think who he slipped as his partner? Also want Xayzeck to answer previous question

I am getting on an airplane in 10 hours for a week long vacation, all posts after this will be from my phone

[Ilhom]

I am now back, couldn't post with my phone because I got thrown in to a pool by drunk people lol....

Really need Jeanne to summarize her thoughts on this game to help solidify my read on her slot. That's definitely the most important thing right now. I would imagine the interactions with Nero would be more worthwhile, but I don't think a lot would be necessarily gained.

[Ilhom]

Jeanne please post before we get another replacement

[Ilhom]

I am

Are you going to try and do a doctor claim based off that? I don't think anyone should believe a doctor claim at this point

[Ilhom]

Thanks mod

Gonna read on your past games hayato to get an idea of how you might summarize this based on your alignment. I guess we just wait until your summary unless me or juckter can think of anything to ask each other.

[Ilhom]

Will post in about 6 hours. At work

[Ilhom]

In the first case, why do you need to say "If you claim to be doc, we won't believe you" instead of waiting him to claim first before saying that.

Because I don't find any relevance to the claim, and I was genuinely confused on why he thought that mattered. Him deciding to claim or not claim there would not have been alignment indicative at all. I don't consider it a "trap"

In the second case, why not wait until I gave my summary before saying you will look at my past games? Now, scum-me will take extra precautions not to look like my scum-self like in my other games.

I'll actually address this later. I'm happy you acknowledged it already.

[Ilhom]

I wasn't a fan of Nero early in the day. As an IC I didn't feel like he was doing a whole lot so that made me a bit worried. With recent events I like him a lot more even though he pressured my town read. His pressuring on Xayzeck is most definitely gonna get this game rolling at a better pace for town.

This comment bugs me a bit. You started to express how you weren't a fan of Nero's play only *after* you have something good to say about him.

A "bit" worried, I said. As the game was progressing around that point it was relatively slow, and as an IC I slowly started to feel uncomfortable with his lack of contributions. If it had gone another day or so I probably would have posted my concerns. If you look at the dates he lacked real content until April 6th, like 3 days after the game started. Him actually starting to do something is what triggered that post.

[Ilhom]

First mafia game I've ever played. I've watched cam mafia for like ~9 months total on a particular streaming service that I'm not sure I'm allowed to say.

I think you've said (for reasons unknown to me) a doc claim wouldn't be believable if I've interpreted it correctly. Which means, it would matter if he decided to claim doc or not. No?

Maybe believing was the wrong word.
A cop died in the night, and the only mafia to die is a goon, so there is either a doctor or vanilla town to fill that 3rd slot on the matrix. It's not definitive there is a doctor in this game. If scum claimed doctor with no CC it could lead to an easy win if town is gullible to the claim, so then you have to question if the claim itself is legit and it gets to a point where the claim doesn't really matter and you have to analyze the person's play.

That's what I meant in not believing a doc claim. Not so much that it's foolish and there shouldn't be a doc in the game, more so it wouldn't provide relevant alignment information.

[Ilhom]

What in particular do you not like about juckter's backpedaling there? I felt like it was okay at the time.

[Ilhom]

You can't deny you had the oppurtunity to express your dislike towards Nero play *here* in this post but didn't. I mean you did made a list of like and dislike, so I wonder why you didn't just bundle up one more of your dislike here.

Why would I express that dislike when that post was 27 hours previous from my other? At that particular moment it was just like the slightest suspicion and it held no weight. Plus, me not saying anything could mean he could continue doing nothing substantial which I could call out for later. Nero decided to start doing some townie things with no prompt, which I liked. You criticized me for warning potential scum of a trap. That I considered a trap.

[Ilhom]

Okay. More nonsense from me.

Page 9-16.

First off, I think Ilhom's case on Stab was very weak. I disagree with it but a weak case doesn't necessarily comes from scum. But I dislike how stubborn he was. Nero pointed out that Stab was the one preventing pist from hammering tet. Ilhom continued to argue that Nero's point helped his case since Stab introduced a time limit before the lynch should happen. I think that's a strech and a sign that Ilhom just want to sit on the wagon.

But then I thought to myself, "Why does scum stubbornly wants a specific player dead, when there are 4 other townies at the moment? Wouldn't this stubbornness means his town? A town who cares about who gets lynched, thus wants the right person to be lynched."

BUT

I agree with Xayzeck that it is very unlikely that there is no scum on the wagon to kill Tetaes. With Maxwell dead, that leaves me, Stabulous, and Futan. That means there is going to be a scum between Stabulous and Futan.

I don't see any of Futan's play as scummy.

Before all that stubbornness, Ilhom said he believed that there is scum between Stab and Futan because of Tet's wagon. And he saw nothing about Futan's play, which is scummy. So, releasing his grip on Stab would mean he has to take back his opinion and beliefs from before...something I can definitely see scum-Ilhom does not want to do, and so instead try his best to keep his vote on Stab.

One may argue, why would his own scum partner, Nero reveal his own mistake. Possibly, Nero thinks Ilhom can get away with it or perhaps Nero thinks he might as well be the one who point that out.

You kidding me? You're calling me stubborn? Nero tried to misrepresent and could not comprehend my posts, which is now blatantly obvious since he was scum as shit. The only other person who actually tried to defend Stabulous was himself. His own defense was weak, and even Futan made a poke about him waiting 22 hours before posting. There was nothing substantial to make me think otherwise until Stabulous flipped on Nero, which is in the later pages. I even did take back my beliefs that there had to be scum on the Tet wagon, which is something that occurs later too. I want you to reevaluate this later

[Ilhom]

I also dislike the fact that Ilhom could have presented that case on Stab on Day1 but chose only to talk about it on Day2. Well, that Tet wagon was happening, so there's no need for scum-Ilhom to come out with a new case. Might as well present that case tomorrow. A theory....

Because it wasn't something I caught immediately and I was more focused on people calling my "slip" with Megalo scummy because it was a BS reason. Trying to paint scum on me with such a trite reason, so it made me start thinking about the people who said it, one of which is actually juckter. When Tetaes flipped town I began reevaluating the game and that's when I caught it.

[Ilhom]

And then there's this:

322 talks about pistachi0n wanting to hammer, I just see most of her play as scared new town play.

If Xayzeck and juckter both vote for pistachi0n, I will hammer.

Ilhom used the first post to justify why he has only suspicion towards Stab but not pist. But suddenly in a world where Stab is town(post 386), pistachi0n is not a scared new town anymore?

You read into this so wrong.
Stabulous and pistachi0n we're not mafia partners due how she went on the Stab wagon and Stab deflected back onto her. So if Stab flipped town, pistachi0n was possible scum because the town reads on juckter and Xayzeck were much stronger than what she had done. I even said they both haven't done anything inherently scummy. Stab flipping town was like my "what if I'm wrong" scenario, and she was left in the POE of scum.

[Ilhom]

tbh, I am feeling rather confident about scum-ilhom right now. So if you're town ilhom, we're in trouble. If you can do something about it, please do.

Sure i'll continue reading and investigating. But let's say if I were there in D2, I would have chosen to lynch Ilhom.

Or you know, you saw juckter saying it could be more likely that I am the scum so you start tunneling on me.

[Ilhom]

Will post in 7 hours, at work

[Ilhom]

posting will be delayed until before I go to sleep sometime, RL things etc

[Ilhom]

Actually, there is a way you can prove that I'm tunelling you. If you can tell me what scum-tell did I missed while reading juckter. Because if there isn't any that I missed, then I had in fact read you both fairly and thus, proving your accusation false.

Tunneling in the sense that you're just throwing the scum on me because you might think you can get juckter on your side more easily because he said he found me a bit more likely, not that you're ignoring his posts.
Your reaction to me saying that seems pretty towny though. You didn't attempt a me vs you scenario which makes my initial way of thinking it less likely.

[Ilhom]

I feel like you pretty much glossed over my POE on day 2
386


replying to your 697
1. Pit wasn't on Tetaes wagon so that's just wrong

2. Yes, I said pist looked like scared new town, but like I said before, if I was wrong on Stabulous my scared new town read wasn't nearly as strong compared to how productive Xayzeck and juckter were, so she was left in the scum POE.

3. You're right I wasn't, because he was almost complete scum in my eyes except for the possible pistachi0n/Futan team, or Xayzeck/juckter somehow partners with Stab. Those were scenarios in my post.

4. Stabulous's most likely partner in my POE was Nero, and Stabulous suddenly switched onto Nero and wanted to form a speed wagon on him. This made me think I was wrong on Stabulous because I don't see him doing that to his partner in that scenario. So this only left Stabulous and Xayzeck/juckter from my perspective which I was not confident in at all, so going from my POE pistachi0n made the most sense.

I never said Stab had no other partners, I said juckter and Xayzeck just seemed unlikely. I didn't discount the possibility, and they were even listed in the POE so that's just wrong too. And yes, I found it EXTREMELY unlikely Stabulous would suddenly get off of pistachi0n who was pretty much going to die that day to suddenly jump onto his partner and ask for a speed wagon to form. That scum team bussing would have been absolutely nuts to do.

[Ilhom]

Pretty confident Nero is the lynch today.

What makes you confident in D3 which couldn't have made you confident in D2?

Self preservation vote on a person who flipped town, scum as shit defense like I've said before on Stabulous, which at the time I wasn't sure if it was buddying or if Nero was that clueless. The Stab flip made me have to decide between Nero and Futan as scum, and who could possibly be partners with them between Xayzeck and juckter. Futan took Stabulous off of L-1 instead of just sitting on him after he liked his defense, which I saw as towny since Stab obviously flipped town.

Basically, Stab dying in the night to flip town is what made me confident as Nero scum way over Futan, obviously combined with the fact that in day 2 pistachi0n was the best lynch if Stab was town because of my confidence in juckter/Xayzeck town reads, one of which I am wrong on. Nero continued a bad defense against me to where he still tried to misrepresent what I was saying, so I stuck with it and was right.

[Ilhom]

Let me rephrase that question. If there's enough stuff in D2to make you confident that Nero is scum, why isn't it enough to vote for Nero over Pist which you had by POE?

just read this after answering other

There wasn't enough stuff in D2 to make me confident in Nero scum. I know you are asking this because you keep thinking my scared as new town read was definitive and wasn't some weak read to help reinforce my Stab scum read, which is why she is listed as scum in my Stab as town POE.

[Ilhom]

I was about to post things about juckster more for completion's sake, but it's all minor issue. I will only if I need to.

So, I believe you promised to read my other games, Ilhom? What did you find?

And both of you wanted to ISO each other. What did you guys get?

finish posting your analysis and I will tell you like I said before.

[Ilhom]

Ilhom, I'm a little confused regarding your reads on pist. Your first posts implied you couldn't tell whether she was town or not, however, your 344 seems to imply you found her more likely to be town, yet you hammered her later that day. Any reason you decided she was a good lynch, or were your reads on her just weak?

What "first posts"?
Like I said before my scared new town was a weak read which is why she stayed on the scum list for Stabulous town scenario. It was something to slightly help reinforce my Stabulous scum read.

[Ilhom]

705

That post and your reaction to my tunneling "accusation" makes me lean more towards town with you.

I also can't get over how uncomfortable it was for Stabulous to die and have juckter jump on me, a person universally town read. He could push on me and Nero was going for Futan, so they had 2 targets to convince the other town to try and get mislynch for win. juckter even said he was not going to back off of me. Kind of WIFOM-y though.

At this point I think I'm still leaning juckter scum

[Ilhom]

705

That post and your reaction to my tunneling "accusation" makes me lean more towards town with you.

I also can't get over how uncomfortable it was for Stabulous to die and have juckter jump on me, a person universally town read. He could push on me and Nero was going for Futan, so they had 2 targets to convince the other town to try and get mislynch for win. juckter even said he was not going to back off of me. Kind of WIFOM-y though.

At this point I think I'm still leaning juckter scum

"I got pissed when juck attacked me after I put so much effort towards looking towny"

Why do you find it scummy to attack someone who is townread? I guess you're suggesting we shouldn't reconsider reads ever and always go against the most scumread fellow because scum never look towny. I guess anyone who was read towny early game could just go ahead and claim scum and they'd still be town in your world. I was also a universal town read on D1 and D2, and now you're attacking me, does that make you caught scum?

You misread, I said you were universally town read. A person universally town read jumps on me after killing the guy I had suspicions on the day before made me feel uncomfortable. I'm not talking about calling a person who seems towny as scum.

[Ilhom]

Almost complete scum in my eyes in the sense that in either situation of Stabulous being town or scum, there was a

pretty fair

chance that he was scum. I did not have any sort of hard scum read on Nero at all at the time I voted for pistachi0n, therefore he was not "obvious". As I said a while back too, his defense on Stabulous was either possible buddying or he just straight up didn't understand what I was saying. So, I either vote on the person that seems like most likely scum if Stabulous was town (which is something I started to believe as mentioned earlier), or I go on a person that I still felt unsure of at the time.

You keep badgering me about my read when I was just going with my POE. The town read on her was NOT strong enough to get her out of scum POE if Stabulous was town. It was a WEAK read to help reinforce Stabulous as scum in my eyes. I had no scum read on Nero until the next day because I had no reason to, which turned into a hard scum read when he continued misrepresenting and ignoring my posts. I get why you kind of think I "let him go" but I felt confident enough on my POE to vote through that. Obviously I was wrong and that sucks, because juckter/Xayzeck were constant town reads and now I had to reevaluate both of them while looking scummy on the pistachi0n hammer since she was town. This goes back to Stabulous dying in the night and juckter jumping on me at the start of the day, which is what made me feel uncomfortable and still makes me think he is probably the scum over you (combined with your towny reactions previously).

[Ilhom]

705

That post and your reaction to my tunneling "accusation" makes me lean more towards town with you.

I also can't get over how uncomfortable it was for Stabulous to die and have juckter jump on me, a person universally town read. He could push on me and Nero was going for Futan, so they had 2 targets to convince the other town to try and get mislynch for win. juckter even said he was not going to back off of me. Kind of WIFOM-y though.

At this point I think I'm still leaning juckter scum

"I got pissed when juck attacked me after I put so much effort towards looking towny"

Why do you find it scummy to attack someone who is townread? I guess you're suggesting we shouldn't reconsider reads ever and always go against the most scumread fellow because scum never look towny. I guess anyone who was read towny early game could just go ahead and claim scum and they'd still be town in your world. I was also a universal town read on D1 and D2, and now you're attacking me, does that make you caught scum?

Also juckter I don't know why you would think I considered myself universally town read, because I most definitely was not.

[Ilhom]

woops that quote

[Ilhom]

At work give me 6 hours

[Ilhom]

Actually, there is a way you can prove that I'm tunelling you. If you can tell me what scum-tell did I missed while reading juckter. Because if there isn't any that I missed, then I had in fact read you both fairly and thus, proving your accusation false.

Tunneling in the sense that you're just throwing the scum on me because you might think you can get juckter on your side more easily because he said he found me a bit more likely, not that you're ignoring his posts.
Your reaction to me saying that seems pretty towny though. You didn't attempt a me vs you scenario which makes my initial way of thinking it less likely.

but then

finish posting your analysis and I will tell you like I said before.

This won't be necessary. As much as I would like more content, the case on you is hard to refute. You're just going to waste your time and effort going through my past games, since I have decided who to vote for. And I hate for you to do all that for nothing. It's not worth it. I've read your defense and unfortunately I'm not satisfied.

Claims his other issues with you are minor and not worth posting, so the tunneling gets pretty real here. The focus shifts on me after you do say that you could find me and Nero more likely, claims his confidence in me as scum, then shifts back and apologizes and tries to throw a little bit of scum towards you. My initial thought of him possibly just focusing on me rings true to me since you should be conf town.
Plus some of his posting was just flat out wrong, which could be another way of misrepresenting me. I also think his "case" is fairly weak because he somehow thinks my weak town read should outweigh my stronger reads in my POE. I've been extremely consistent in my line of thought this game, and he tries to push otherwise.

Those are the things that are sticking out to me from him. I suggest you reread D3 too, juckter. I think Enomis had a solid read on the game with good criticisms on both you and Xayzeck. I also had the town slip of why me and Xayzeck weren't scum team. It really didn't occur to me that us having a conversation with the vote on Nero was an indication we could hammer for the win.

I believe these are the most key things to hopefully show you I'm town. I hope I didn't miss anything crucial, so if you find anything else please ask before you hammer.

VOTE: hayatoBL

[Ilhom]

How is it BAD for me to follow my POE that took me hours to make? Shifting my vote to pistachi0n makes perfect sense strictly based off my POE. Me thinking Stabulous was more "likely" town because deciding to start a speed wagon on his most likely partner when pistachi0n was going to die that day seemed really unlikely. You just keep thinking this is unsatisfactory. There was NO reason for me to want to kill Nero based off of my POE for that day, unless he hard claimed scum. My POE even said I was pretty much going to only lynch Stabulous or pistachi0n that day. Like I said before, my line of thought has been extremely consistent. How is that strong case?

[Ilhom]

Suddenly defenses are weak because a person follows the most logical steps from their analysis of the game.

[Ilhom]

Also cool blame laziness for wanting to sit on me.

The wrong posting I am referencing to is your inability to understand my POE. The pistachi0n could have been a poor attempt at something, but I honestly think that was just a mistake because it was pretty silly.

one example 689

[Ilhom]

To put it simply, there shouldn't be any town motivation to rush a hammer and not allow a person on the chopping block to claim. There is a mafia incentive because there is a possibility of an easy role lynch. That's why I did not like Stabulous pushing for the hammer. He says it would be a scum tell if he got hammered before he could post, and I point out that's scummy if it happens to him, but not if someone does it to Tetaes. Futan also makes the jab about him taking 22+ hours to post.

of never posting anything useful without waiting for a post and lynching someone who has promised content and has delivered on promises in

He posts that in response to me, but I found it as an easy excuse for him to push a kill on Tetaes. "I projected town, so not allowing me to post is not ok versus a person who didn't do much and could possibly be hiding a claim." I don't like it.

He then makes some pretty good analysis that are pretty logical but I didn't think that it outweighed my read at all. As I said before, nothing he did made me think otherwise.

Nero does his stupid defense and I felt exhausted explaining it to him and every other person constantly asking me to summarize my thoughts on Stabulous.

I then form my POE based off analyzing the game state.

The turning point of the day is when Stabulous flipped onto Nero. Once again, Nero was his most likely partner in my POE, the others being you or Xayzeck. You and Xayzeck were town in my Stabulous as town POE because you guys projected strong town where pistachi0n was left in the scum POE because I had a weak read on her as scared new town. I found Stabulous bussing his partner there EXTREMELY UNLIKELY because there was absolutely no reason for it when pistachi0n was going to die. So then I had to make a decision, is my Stabulous scum read strong enough to make me believe that either Xayzeck or juckter are his partner, OR am I wrong on Stabulous and I should lynch pistachi0n because I saw her as high chance as scum if Stabulous was town. I was more willing to believe I was wrong and went with the lynch.

I believe that sums up D2 for me.

[Ilhom]

I don't believe you can't tell the difference between lynching a habitual lurker who has given every intention of never posting anything useful without waiting for a post and lynching someone who has promised content and has delivered on promises in the past without waiting for a post.

that quote messed up

[Ilhom]

hey mod I voted for hayato on 729

Derp! Fixed.

[Ilhom]

oh man what a relief good game

[Ilhom]

joining the queue again after results are shown.
juckter I hope you do the same

[Ilhom]

Thanks man. I was super worried when hayato dropped his vote on me because I felt like there was no chance of you voting on him.

[Ilhom]

Also mod you were super good. I read some random games here and there and you post vote counts consistently and you're also active. So I'm sorry I ruined your Masquerade

[Ilhom]

Also joining newbie game again hayato because I want to get a bit more comfortable with this. Feel like I'll just overthink everything in micro or open games.

[Ilhom]

I also thought juckter was leaning towards scum-ilhom. So, I thought we were going to win.

One thing about newbie games is I think the cases presented there are a bit too naive to my liking.

I have a question for you Ilhom if you don't mind, do you think my case on you made sense? Or do you think I was right on voting you but for the wrong reasons?

The only part of it that didn't make sense was you thinking there was no reason for me to vote pistachi0n over Nero. Other than that it was good, especially when you talked about how it was sketchy that they turned up town and Nero was actually scum.