Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[ActionDan]

Bane: Gamma

Choose: One

[ActionDan]

Gotta keep in character, I guess? ##

Vote: tammy

.

btw, my

circlejerk

team thinks espy is the most likely player to have waged scum tokens into this setup... regfan met him irl and apparently he couldn't stop talking about how much he loves being scum and all these evil mustache twirling plans he had in mind for future scum games, so...

The money is not in your mouth!

[ActionDan]

He means the value we get. And he's right

[ActionDan]

Although

@Mod: When you say "protection from 2 kills", is that protection spread over 2 or more people or the same person?

[ActionDan]

Although

@Mod: When you say "protection from 2 kills", is that protection spread over 2 or more people or the same person?

how about you figure out the specifics of what the fuck you're talking about before you start talking down to people

see you in 30 pages

[ActionDan]

Maybe you know, if you treat me maybe somewhat cordially, I can lend you my special insights

[ActionDan]

Imagine how unlikely are scum to use a kill on the same person with the same sign match.

With that clarification choice one seems better, yes.

[ActionDan]

Like how I spent 5 tokens to be town!

[ActionDan]

Did you ever say why you thought UT was scum? (I also suppose this is an independent read from Ceph.)

It's really simple, protection doesn't work very accurately. It's better to have less effective protection that gives information then it is to have more effective protection that might not do anything at all.

And mine

[ActionDan]

hihi

marquis baneing me I think is a little mediocre but considering that I baned him for literally no reason (not even gut this time, I just wanted to bane someone for something that would look like not-RVS to get people out of that mindset even though it basically still was) I can't reaaally hate on him for it

Thinking UT is scum for being generally aggressive and catty is super dumb because that is just UT as a person

I will actually read things and maaaybe even have opinions tonight
definitely maybe

How can you read this and not immediately want to burn this at the stake? Seriously.

I do. more now than before!

Oh Shadoweh, be a dear and please remind Greyice of his performance in Hourai's game (years ago). If he wants a policy lynch that should point him in the right direction

[ActionDan]

30 to 47 pages in a day. Why.

my observations in those 30 pages have been limited to scum reading gamma and thinking that shadoweh has produced just enough town vibes to make her likely town if the fact that it is likely she spent a token or two to be town is taken into account.

I don't think UT is scummy (yet not exactly bursting with toown flavor) though i can understand how other people arrived at that conclusion.

I don't have townreads / scummreads on anyone else really

[ActionDan]

boon:shadoweh

Ur welcome

[ActionDan]

Been away for 10 days. Will get to this tomorrow

[ActionDan]

Since lm behind on this game due to my hiatus Im going to try a simple approach that doesn't possibly feel like I'm a wet log

There are two major wagons on TTH and espionage atm. I haven't a clue on either. So for of you who think you do, please give concise reasons why or why not I should vote either or none of them.

Thanks

[ActionDan]

I'm really insulted you put me in the same category as TTH and ActionDan.

One of us...? One of us!

There's nothing wrong with TTH detecting TSO. Even if he didn't have a particular role he was planning to use associated with it, detecting any one person yields as much information as any other, that is to say, little, so it doesn't matter much and you might even come out with some niche information that no one else has.

Is there a particular reason antihero replacing out matters?

[ActionDan]

Or apparently DV.

[ActionDan]

@Singer,

I started that wagon on TTH with the intent of dragging him back into the game and getting involved. I'm not a big fan of actually lynching him. I'd rather focus on getting stable townreads and lynch whoever isn't actually in said group. Then we can take what we learned. I don't think much would be learned from lynching TTH. Lynching someone people are actually pushing as scum seems to be a better idea.

We also have two lynches today if we fit them both in by the day deadline.

oh

so you're one of those people too

before we potentially get into a discussion i don't want to make last any more than 1 post

please tell me why tth is not someone who "people are actually pushing as scum"

because this is a very clearcut statement and i want to know how far i can try and think about titus things before i get any repeats

also fun fact i just found out it's double day? i get townpoints for that right

No, no townpoints for you. And the bluster doesn't get you any either.

There's two ways you can interpret vezok's results on me. You can either think I'm a town special that wants to use my role on DV or you can think I'm scum gathering intel for a kill / some other nefarious purpose. You have a distinct and very clearly stated "not town" read on DeasVail himself, so the former conclusion should come much more naturally to you. Yet, you don't unvote and you actually go so far as to subtly push me to claim more information. Both these are scum motivated and completely inconsistent with your read on DV.

You are scum, sir.

Wouldn't a vote on you depend more on your read on DV and Marquis' read on you, than on his read on DV? If you can show evidence that the first two were not present in the vote I would agree with you

[ActionDan]

No, I'm talking just about vezok's result here and the implications of it.

A "I don't know" read on DV doesn't translate into "anyone targeting him is clearly obvscum, let's lynch her." Heck, even a really strong townread doesn't necessarily translate to "anyone targeting him is obvscum" though it gets you closer and makes the jump feasible.

I understand the argument you are using. I agree with it. But I was asking if there was anymore to marquis' vote than that. I have since read his iso from day 2 and there is, though not actually connected to the point you're pushing. I also don't think your characterisation of Marquis 'damning' you over it is correct as it's an afterthought mentioned after antihero switching out and something about meta. However I think marquis's reasons on the whole are weak. That is my conclusion

[ActionDan]

AD, are you an incredibly smart person who has english as a second language or an aspie? That language is stilted and awkward.

I sometimes assume an affected persona when posting. It's a mechanism that serves me well

[ActionDan]

AD, are you an incredibly smart person who has english as a second language or an aspie? That language is stilted and awkward.

I sometimes assume an affected persona when posting. It's a mechanism that serves me well

When? Because it just makes me want to lynch you.

Whenever it suits me, it can be in one post, and not in another from the same game

[ActionDan]

Has marquis explained his tth read properly yet?

Thats about were i was last. been a couple of shitty days hence so pardon me etc.

Also the chance shadoweh used town tokens on this game is like 100 percent so again shes probably town. I only say this because suspicion her way i see is cropping up

[ActionDan]

@titus/singer : i have no compunctions about working with you persay. This game is incredibly long both in wall posts and page numbers so I'll be able to give you a read/analysis of any one or two particular players at a time. Make a suggestion and ill go from there

[ActionDan]

@titus/singer : i have no compunctions about working with you persay. This game is incredibly long both in wall posts and page numbers so I'll be able to give you a read/analysis of any one or two particular players at a time. Make a suggestion and ill go from there

I really don't like seeing you take a consulting stance like this.

I'll be forming my own opinions with the advantage that they will be relevant to other's interests. For now ill look at esp and CDB.

[ActionDan]

I come with analysis!

Specifically on Espeonage.

nah I'm not and I can even proves it like right now.

1. If I was scum I'm fairly sure I would have noticed the game had started.
2. I actually spent token(s) on making myself town because I want to win TM.
3. The only time I don't choose scum when given a choice is when I really want to win or need to do it to eradicate choice meta. Both of those need me to be town.
I'm baning with OMGUS as soon as I find out who it was.

None of this proves anything. Even taking it at face value, how would "eradicating choice meta" be a priority in a game Espe "really wants to win"? For that matter, why would really wanting to win be something that varies significantly across games. We all play to win regardless anyway, so in that endeavor, choosing town would be the right thing to do anyway. I realize this is mostly tongue in cheek but it factors in to responses/posts later in the game and I feel compelled to gut it.

TSO, I asked you to read my posts because I felt you were misunderstanding me and I was repeating myself.

You think I lie for no reason???

The booze is for me tonight to try to make sense of this.

@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.

That sounds like null bulba. Pls don't declare things that aren't true.

hella yeah this game is gonna be easy.

Ok well I don't get an easy bane vote then.

But you're lies about bulba stand.

The point is that he can(TM).

And you gonna tell me that someone with established tonal tells that drew scum in TM isn't going to fabricate posts carefully? That's just not respecting Team Mafia.

Anyone can fabricate anything if they put their mind to it. But, Titus listed traits that I would presuppose would be more likely to be associated with Bulba town as opposed to her other experience of him as a scum lurker. Thus it becomes more probable that he's town (at least to her [it is far wiser to examine the content of someone's arguments/posts in any case whether carefully constructed or disjointed however]).

It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

Ok see, that is much better, well done.

For example, in a game where I have read half a page, you're the closest thing to a scum read.

I didn't call you scum, you need reading comprehension.

The point I was trying to make is that you can spout a read but that doesn't mean it's right.

I'm going to give this the benefit of the doubt and assume this isn't an outright slip, but there's no point that's being made here. people can spout reads with or without the added bonus of reasons - which titus gave - to add and progress the gamestate (which means people being able to read them or adding to the volume of posts to discuss or what have you), you just happen to disagree with it. Also later on you question Tammy about having a problem with Mastin "voicing a town read" on TTH and believe me the strength of that read is stronger than here so this lesson is rather hypocritical.

Tammy what part of voicing a townread is ever bad for town?

---

Hey Titus. Quick question.

Why is buddying of any importance when there has been no flip yet?

Hey Titus. Quick question.

Why is buddying of any importance when there has been no flip yet?

Because we like people who like us. So scum can buddy by being likable.

@DV, What am I ingoring?

Town can also buddy so shit gets done. Come back after a flip.

pedit: LOL

This dialogue with Titus is quickly becoming needless pestering. It stops here but it's absolutely bereft of purpose. This exchange feels more like a fabrication of developing a scumread than a conversation.

Ok so at the end of page 23, I feel that Tammy is getting a bit agitated where she doesn't need to be. I mainly think her arguments are barking up the wrong tree and the excepts (I have yet to follow up on reading then in context) seem to be more of deflection over anything, which seems weird and Zar appears to be arguing the tree rather than the forest which is usually a sign of scum so I'm leaning towards voting.

@Red Wine Talk: That is the most fun game I have even played in and I was one of the first people dead. Anyone looking to learn how to do scum theater needs to read that game. I doubt there will be another example of how to both flail, and clear yourself from that.

If it makes you feel better I am cautiously nullscum on Tammy. She is playing how I have seen her play as non hydra scum but I don't want to push it off such a small sample size as I have.

I will say that I am not ok with Tammy boon for the moment.

And now I want to ignore TamPire.

I already covered the your slot. Mostly deflection and I Tammy's wall felt very similar to the way she went about attacking me in Red Wine which means that she is probably either right or scum with you.

I will not clarify the Tammy pings.

If I'm getting this right suspicion is accruing due to a perceived similarity between tammy's scum theater in one game and play/walls in this one. And in that event, and considering the statement that tammy is either scum or "right", why would Espe choose to ignore the Empire part of "TamPire". That should be the person he should be looking into the hardest. Instead we're going to see an obsession with Tammy.

Hey Tammy, you know how you were during like the mid part of Unbalanced 2.

This is me telling you, you need to breathe.

Also btw, your explanation of why you attacked me in Red Wine is equatable to why I think you're attacking here as was picked up by Empire.

Ok got some pedits.

Why are you trying to calm me down if you think I'm scum? Wouldn't I be faking my agitation in that case?

I have no idea what you mean by "as picked up by empire".

Dude, I don't know if you are scum. If you are town then there is no way I want to sever ties with you. This is going to be a long game, and we're going to need to be working together at some point over the course of this.

On that note, it's one of the reasons I was being iffy about my nullscum read on Tammy. I don't actually think I can read Tammy except in cases where she is being very town in her own way which isn't happening here.

It should be noted that by his own admission he can't definitely read Tammy on meta and tone alone except to conclude he can't townread her. Which is fine, that kind of distinction via meta and tone is something I do and most people do regularly.

Hey Bulba. Can you ask mollie if she thinks that Tammy's tone is town frustrated or scum default? She's seen both recently, they are both similar.

Why don't yu ask the confirmed fucking town that is actually playing in this game, has played more games with me, and can read me better.

See Tammy, the thing is that mollie has played with scum you very recently, I have a rapport with mollie as of recent and I don't have a good rapport with the confirmed town.

Now with that out of the way.

I'm getting more and more happy in my read that you're scum. Truth be told I found myself unapproving of the tth wagon simply because you were on it which took me by surprise tbh. Your tone here doesn't read to me like the frustrated got irl stuff tone as far as I can tell, which is about the only explanation I have for the amount of scumminess I am feeling from your posts. And even if that is the reasoning for your tone it still doesn't mean you're town, it takes it to null, at most. I don't have the most experience with you but I'm going off what I do have. And your responses to people here for the most part aren't looking town.

I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Vote: Tammy

gots a preedit come up

Logically, everything about this post is alarming. That same meta that was used before in Espe's Tammy read is employed here. Nothing has been added besides conviction; there is no attempt to get past tonality to figure out why tammy's responses to people don't look town for example (which remains vague as is anyway). I'd have expected even tidbits from a weighty vote like this one to include content. That said I find this post of his the towniest of them all. For some reason. But I'm going to ignore that. I almost feel like I made a Mastin-like assessment.

You self voting is a really bad sign though.

Current List of people ok with being Booned: Marquis

:does not compute:

I also don't understand why there was resistance to explaining why wagoning TTH wasn't a prospect beyond tammy's participation in that wagon

Why did you spend your first ten posts chiding Titus instead of scumhunting?

Because I hadn't read. If I'm behind in games I will usually get in an argument with someone. It's the best way to get people chatting, good for getting fast reads. See Capcom for me trying to do the same kind of thing. Other examples are [REDACTED]

I think Bulba might be town.

I've never been able to read him but just from a couple of posts and the things people are saying I'm going to go town.

So you can't read him, but you're throwing a townread at him because ???????

Reasons. Yes I have a terrible time trying to read bulba. But I'm noticing some things that haven't come up in his play before and those make me lean town.

I don't actually think I can read Tammy except in cases where she is being very town in her own way which isn't happening here.

How did you start confidently scumreading her later this cycle then?

Thinking

I'm getting more and more happy in my read that you're scum. Truth be told I found myself unapproving of the tth wagon simply because you were on it which took me by surprise tbh. Your tone here doesn't read to me like the frustrated got irl stuff tone as far as I can tell, which is about the only explanation I have for the amount of scumminess I am feeling from your posts. And even if that is the reasoning for your tone it still doesn't mean you're town, it takes it to null, at most. I don't have the most experience with you but I'm going off what I do have. And your responses to people here for the most part aren't looking town.

Can you pull specific examples of that you're finding scummy about her responses/tone?

It's most of it. She usually respects and embraces reachouts in my experience. She even scumread mollie after she didn't react to a reachout from her. There's a disjoint and that usually means scum.

Responses in bold.

But I'm noticing some things that haven't come up in his play before and those make me lean town.

Can you talk about these? Or is it just gut?

There are actual reasons. But if I say stuff he'll modulate play and I'm not solid on the read. I'd rather keep it close to chest for the moment.

If Espe "really wants to win" why not disclose these reasons that he thinks makes Bulba town. The claim that the reasons are reasons for bulba town are undermined by the fact that he hasn't seen this play before... so how would he know if it's town or not? As for the other bolded stuff I found of interest: The dialogue with Titus didn't go anywhere. There wasn't a quick read. Titus is apparently a townread now but certainly not because of what happened on page 23. I still find it hard to believe that in liu of inspecting the content of Tammy's posts, the response to a reachout (which was almost patronizing) would have skewed him to move to vote.

If people want to the main reason as to why I cant let Tammy scumread go is because she is incredibly interested in pointing out how wrong the person who has the absolute least influential voice in the game is. Pick your battles and play the game.

This is not true at all. I haven't read most of them, but tammy's walls are organized enough that it's obvious she's talking about more than one person, even in different capacities, to warrant this denouncement.

Ok what are people's opinions on TTh's case on Marq? Considering how solid it looked to me, I'm surprised that we're the only two votes on him.

As someone who actually read through that (being like, the one thing I did so far this game), I'm going to go ahead and state that TTh's Marquis case is nowhere close to ironclad. It's a good point but it has plenty of flaws if taken alone. If this "looks solid" to Espe it's clear to me it's a tacit admission he didn't read anything beyond TTh's post... nor quite obviously, my caveats directly following which might have helped him avoid this question.

All other posts made by Espe I either find alignment neutral or repetitive with the ones presented here.

My conclusion is that he's scummy. The most egregious thing being focusing on Tammy, regardless of reading solely into her meta/tone or whatever, and dropping attempting to read Empire during this period. It was a simple thing to answer his request to review his reads even (detailed and long as they were).

VOTE: Espe

I'll do CDB later today so sit tight

[ActionDan]

This looked like a huge effortful post, but there's actually very little meat to it.

I'm going to ask the folks who have pledged their swords, bows, axes, etc to me for the day to move their votes to Action Dan. please and thank you.

Also, Cheetory - you're invited too!

It took 5 hours you know

[ActionDan]

Ffery....

I don't understand, how could you even think to type something like this:

this feels like you're calling a personality thing scummy.

I have maybe said one thing relating to Espe's personality including both his tone of posting and his personal relations with other players... and that was calling his reachout to tammy patronizing.

As for your other criticisms I really don't appreciate them frankly.

Like this 1 out of the 2:

You agreed with espe's point that titus' reasons for townreading bulba were weak, but you turned it into an "espe is likelier scum" point.

The lesson was bad. So?

Actually I didn't agree with him. I stated as an aside that in general titus' stated reasons for townreading bulba would be weak for me: Replace Titus and Bulba with 2 people of your choice and the result would hold. But the finer point here is what he made of those reasons coming from titus' unique POV. They were used as an attack on Titus much more so than anything else, which is what I found scummy.

[ActionDan]

I think the fact that he's saying that she's lying about Bulba's meta is wayyyyyyyy too strong

BASICALLY THIS.

THANKS GUY WHO'S VOTING FOR ME!

GEE WHIZ!

[ActionDan]

Vote Espe!

[ActionDan]

Maybe you could be a dear and vote that other guy instead of sheeping somebody who's wrong.

[ActionDan]

I mean I don't want to get sassy.

But you're arguing my own point that Ffery is voting me for and that you're sheeping.

@pedit:

I don't ever do associations before flips. So if you want to ask me "Do you think Titus is scum?" (because I gave my 2 cents on Espe) my answer would be that I haven't read her beyond the interaction with Espe... and from that alone I'd say it's possible, but I'm not feeling anything scummy from it.

[ActionDan]

Also when you see something like

"Titus is probs town"

it's burden of alignment is on the one who posted it. Drawing associations here prematurely is unwise.

I've read your wall now and I'm just commenting on what you're saying connects Titus/Espeonage. individual points against them have either already been covered by me in the case of Espeonage or are points you'd have to press me to verify in the case of Titus.

[ActionDan]

Ffery....

I don't understand, how could you even think to type something like this:

this feels like you're calling a personality thing scummy.

I have maybe said one thing relating to Espe's personality including both his tone of posting and his personal relations with other players... and that was calling his reachout to tammy patronizing.

As for your other criticisms I really don't appreciate them frankly.

Like this 1 out of the 2:

You agreed with espe's point that titus' reasons for townreading bulba were weak, but you turned it into an "espe is likelier scum" point.

The lesson was bad. So?

Actually I didn't agree with him. I stated as an aside that in general titus' stated reasons for townreading bulba would be weak for me: Replace Titus and Bulba with 2 people of your choice and the result would hold. But the finer point here is what he made of those reasons coming from titus' unique POV. They were used as an attack on Titus much more so than anything else, which is what I found scummy.

Oh the horror! and I was paraphrasing Nacho, how could it be?

I think even a deep and enlightening post about espe would ring a little hollow at this point. one case, on the player with the largest wagon, and then a fade with promises still on the table.

Oh come on. Why the mockery? If you're going to engage me, I expect you to do so with a little competence, especially with the call to rally the troops. I know this sounds stupid coming from me, but I think I deserve more than this.

@Shadoweh:

My memories of that game specifically of his slot were the VT claim and nothing more of consequence from his slot. I don't remember his lynch or the circumstances surrounding it. Regardless, I've decided to approach reads in ways that sap emotion and "feelings" from them (granted, I've got the one only; If you [or anyone else] have noticed I decided that my gamma scum read is stale)... This also would ignore meta. But, I guess for you I'll take a look-see at that game

[ActionDan]

Do you think I care?
You've made one significant post about one person. I have no idea what you think about anyone right now other than Esp. I'm down to sheep ffery on this vote for pressure alone if it means for you to start playing the game and start taking more actual stances.
Pitch three people you think might be scum and name two people you're townreading and why.

It's unconscionable, if I had the reads you had, to not care that my vote was on someone for pure sheep reasons instead of the person I thought was scum, to say nothing of the congruent opinions that we share.

I don't have 3 people I'm scumreading excluding Espe. And the only person that I have decided that I think is town is Shadoweh. The why part of that involves tokens and play that I thought was town enough to make it probable that she is town.

[ActionDan]

I dunno it seemed a fitting response to "I don't know how you could even think to type something like that".

forgive me for being incensed over seeing a huge wagon form on the basis of something that I literally could not make sense of.

pedit: I understand what you mean, but I guess that a better way to approach this would be to look through the scum games of his and see if something like this exists in any of them. Otherwise, it's meta that can't be relied on over play.

[ActionDan]

yes...seeing the wagon form. :/

no one likes getting lynched. (Unless you're Espeonage apparently)

[ActionDan]

yes...seeing the wagon form. :/

no one likes getting lynched. (Unless you're Espeonage apparently)

point being, you haven't posted a damn thing after that wall, until a short while after my call for votes.

Well that's not really a point against me. I mean. honestly.

But even still you are always welcome to bash me for my content, if you so deign, on the condition that we simply stick to that instead whatever this is.

[ActionDan]

I'm just under the impression the general haplessness he's played this game with is similar to how I felt about him in that game. I mean he wanted to out his Sign in one of his first posts.

So I skimmed his iso that game. hapless at his lynch? sure I guess, no resistance (~4 short posts around it plus he was ok with dying as long as his scumread died after). He claimed VT to stir things up though, meaning he had a bit of purpose, I don't think claiming sign here is in the same vein but I think the comparison between this game and that one is inconclusive anyway

[ActionDan]

Oh btw mastin. I've just been skimming your posts. Did you know that all your scumreads you ever had are voting me?

I was wondering what you were thinking when you said to Ffery that you might vote me.

[ActionDan]

p-pedit: [redacted] Was about to claim but L-2. I'll claim with intent declared if it's needed

pedit:

I'd like a day to read over singer/zar/empire.

[ActionDan]

Alright I looked through Singer's iso and I'd like preface this by saying the level of engagement with the rest of the playerlist is pretty amazing.

Also I think she's town. With a few ceveats.

It was often a bit difficult to follow reads because of the contributions by regfan were not overlapping with her own. However, Singer has managed not only to keep her reads intact and separated, but has managed to do so while developing them. The only one of importance that has remained untouched has been shadoweh's, but I'm pretty sure most everything else has had alterations whether small or big. That show's town motivation to constantly refresh reads and it's a feat that I think would be harder for scum to fabricate.

That said while I like this pattern in general, the most significant (and important to the gamestate) changes occur later and some of the reasons for them seem flippant to me. First and foremost my own; It's really upsetting to see a read flipflop (and very strongly) on me asking for some direction after being explicitly asked to work with others. Sure I've been in this game since the start but on the average past the first 30ish pages from which I didn't exactly have my head far into the game and which was dominated by a few far more vocal players, I might as well have been a replacee. 2ndly and lastly, The change of heart wrt Espeonage for a flurry of posts with Titus underwhelms me as does the stance that he's trying not to limit town's options when he was one of the main wagon anyway, which gives him an impetus to do that (not that he didn't resign himself to voting me anyway after and now is not around, after saying his own wagon was town driven).

I do like the change of heart wrt to TTH though. That looks a lot better than ^.

Besides this, the only thing Singer could have done better would have been to expand on her own reads a bit more timely. The TTH scum read was early, in fact the earliest, but there wasn't an explanation for it until a lot later. It would have been better than say, sparring with Titus about the wagon and her opinion of it for what seems like more than half of singer's ISO (at least the implications). I don't actually care much about this alignment wise besides an aside that Shadoweh's commentary on it was a bit over hostile but VERY understandable back god knows when.

So Yeah, I MUCH perfer Espe getting lynched over this slot.

Speaking of which.

@Ffery: Excuse me, if I fizzled out as you claim. I went to bed. Please tell me where Espe has been since he voted me? IT IS A MYSTERY

[ActionDan]

Has Nacho addressed me in the form of a question? I only know of his opinion through you.

I trust his ability to read AD because of our experience together playing games with AD. I think if AD is town he would/will pretty quickly convince Nacho of it.

Like if there's something more tangible than this that you feel l should talk about that I haven't covered in other posts (whether I've conflated your own words/posting with his paraphrased is irrelevant to me) I'm open to it, especially if it relates to the content of my previous reads/posts.

I'll take a look at this emotional response meta thing that apparently Nacho says CDB is peddling.

[ActionDan]

After reading, I don't think that the comparison should have any stock put in it. Ignoring my self-vote (which I remember was intentionally hugely overblown because that was desparation [unless this is the particular post that CDB is using to compare to this game, which would be inexplicable because of the obvious differences), I can see myself writing my posts in a tone that I could, and indeed have, written as town. So not only is it not an apt comparison to compare that to one post here, but this isn't that different to when I am post as town.

I can sort of understand CDB using this form memory because I was going after him there, so maybe it left an impression.

If you really want to see an emotional me look no further than the wire large theme from which I replaced out due to rage, the only time ever.

[ActionDan]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4705348

This is almost uncannily similar to the offending post in this thread

[ActionDan]

VC 70 (Major Day 1, VC 32)

(8)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, singersigner,

T S O

, Espeonage, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird, Titus [L-2]
(4)

singersigner:

Bulbazak, mastin2, Shadoweh, Untrod Tripod

(Gammagooey)

(3)

Espeonage:

vezokpiraka, ActionDan, Cheetory6

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

[ActionDan]

yes I get it. Does that not affect you?

[ActionDan]

The wire game was an emotional game. I dunno. different sources maybe.

What is your Shadoweh read?

Btw fun fact; there are two wire games, both of which I was in.

My shadoweh read (one of like 2 at that time) has been a town one since 30 pages or so, but after looking over singer's iso and researching their back and forth, it's grown stronger.

[ActionDan]

Cab we get back to the espe wagon? It's the only wagon I kinda like right now and this game is fucking dragging. We need to do two lynches in 5 days and we don't even have wagons.

How about we compromise? You vote AD and we lynch him, then immediately after that we can lynch esp.

Is there a better reason than pure numbers to demand a compromise via voting me when you have no particular lynch perference and could instead vote espe?

[ActionDan]

Cuts mcgee

[ActionDan]

To made them fade you'll have to convince people to leave them.

Even myself. I will in the meantime look at Tso.

Breifly reading Oversouls iso, a gut acum read on espe turns into a hated wagon. Why?

[ActionDan]

Cab we get back to the espe wagon? It's the only wagon I kinda like right now and this game is fucking dragging. We need to do two lynches in 5 days and we don't even have wagons.

How about we compromise? You vote AD and we lynch him, then immediately after that we can lynch esp.

Is there a better reason than pure numbers to demand a compromise via voting me when you have no particular lynch perference and could instead vote espe?

Nope.

While I appreciate the honesty this is not a good reason for the demand from someone who actually has a perference.

[ActionDan]

I will have to read and evaluate and then get back to you on that.

[ActionDan]

Singer's jump on me is fucking terrible, by the way, she doesn't even have a read on me.

Excuse me but do you have a read on me?

[ActionDan]

I read Tsos iso

My thought summing it up is basically:

It could be worse.

That describes his posting pre-page 55 or whenever he went vla.

There are 2 separate distinct interactions with Titus and 3 scum reads of import. Other stuff isn't really critical

The first interaction with Titus is about the open games and their relative townsideness post she made. Tso gets this wrong, flatly, and subsquently forms a nullscumread on titus due to percieved lying. This didn't get resolved and imo there was ample opportunity for TSO to rectify this read by careful reconsideration of the post and posts following it. That's a point against him. However in the 2nd interaction which is about boons and hotheadness Titus does herself no favors by accusing Tso of attacking people who are alternative boon votes etc. He carries himself well here. Taken together it's inconclusive. The scumread on titus does gain justification, but it's largely colored by how it was conceived.

Ut and vezok reads are whatever/fine I guess but underdeveloped/shallow, though considering the nature and frequency of their posts compared to Titus', that's to be expected. Null point

The bulb scumread though is a bit different. At one point Tso says he has more than one reason to bane Bulb, though there's only one specific post about him that was ever talked about that would allow tso to do that (About bulb losing a post he didnt really care about). This is actually an ok starting point, and is even followed through on after bulbs response, but whatever other reasons there were for majorly scumreading the slot are absent. I don't know why they would be. (Also they're not going to be those reasons he never thought he had to state that he may have attributed to UT)

So... Meh? The recent posts I think are worse than any of this. Especially the hipocracy of claiming singers vote was awful for following ffery when he did the exact same thing when voting me for the same reason

[ActionDan]

hey dan you're the only one left on espeonage's wagon

how does that make you

feel

?

Sad and alone in the world. And not that it should, but increased confidence I'm voting scum

Pedit: it does doesn't it.

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Tso

Fine.

[ActionDan]

AD is wonky. He's either wrong about stuff or scum.

I had 3 reads at this point:

Shadoweh: town
Singer: town
Espe: scum

Your reads

Shadoweh: N/A
Singer: town
Espe: presumably, town

Since stuff = reads I'd like to know where simply the pluralization came from

[ActionDan]

She means someone else after she votes

[ActionDan]

Why not?

[ActionDan]

Can I get your opinion on Tso oversoul?

[ActionDan]

Tempting, but I prefer sticking with espe, for the moment anyway

VOTE: Espeonage

[ActionDan]

What does this have to do wirlth vezok

[ActionDan]

Ya. Im not sure there's more to say about this than: wtf

[ActionDan]

But whatever. I know Nacho is pushing this. It's becoming a sitewide thing where Nacho is fucking lynching me in every game we play and he's always wrong.

This really seems like scumposting.

[ActionDan]

To made them fade you'll have to convince people to leave them.

Even myself. I will in the meantime look at Tso.

Breifly reading Oversouls iso, a gut acum read on espe turns into a hated wagon. Why?

Just saw this, what did you get from reading my ISO Dan? Why is the progression from gut scum to dislike necessarily bad?

There wasn't much to get from reading your iso iirc.

I never said it was bad, but there was no progression which is why I asked "why?"

[ActionDan]

*ahem* which I'd still like to know the answer to

[ActionDan]

As far as lumps on my wagon go i have the pereference of voting aronis. Between titus and dv I'd have to read up

[ActionDan]

Probably because you were going to juxtapose that with "im not voting for Tso"

[ActionDan]

ActionDan, is this the comment you're referring to? This is the comment that you are asking "Why"?

I didn't answer your why question because I don't think I ever said I had a gut scum read on Espeonage, or at least I can't remember it now and I can't find it in my ISO either. What I am trying to communicate with that bolded comment is that I don't have a read on Espeonage and I would rather go with a wagon where I at least have some basis for a read (my initial gut scum reads). Espeonage has lived comfortably in null land in my perspective of this game. He is a blind spot that I still have not been able to properly address.

I asked in general (from a theoretical perspective) if the move from gut scum read to disliking the wagon would *necessarily* be bad a thing because I don't think I actually did what you think I did in that post. Clearly something about that transition is causing you concern - what is it?

Yes that was the post. I didn't catch the "s" in "reads" I guess since I interpreted that as distancing yourself from a gut scum read on him. If that wasn't the case then I would be concerned because changing reads on a player without explanation is convenient for scum since usually it's not questioned. That said, I still am not sure why you'd hate a wagon on a null player. Most people would feel "whatever" about it.

[ActionDan]

given the quickness and ease compared to the resistance on these main three.

This isn't true for my wagon. I am absolutely sure I was realistically 1-off from a lynch before I started posting

[ActionDan]

I hated Espeonage's wagon because of who was on it, not because it was on Espeonage specifically. If it had been Singer with those same people voting I would have hated it just the same. At the time of that post, both UT and CDB were on the wagon and they were my first two main scumreads in this game.

iirc you hated all the wagons?

[ActionDan]

Well ok. I am a bit concerned about you limiting the lynch options to AD, Singer, Titus, UT, Espe. 2 you think are town, 1 null, 1 scum, and I don't actually know what you think of me since I was on Espe but you also hated my wagon but I'll assume not a hard scum hard. The point is you're advocating limiting to options in which you truly only believe 1/5 will flip scum. That at the least is counter intuitive to me despite the assertion that you think information wise we'd get the most out of lynching 1 of these 5.

[ActionDan]

well, Titus doubtful due to the same...

[ActionDan]

I'm trying to get in good by shitting on their play? Ok.
I only want UT's lynch, Dan. When you put it that way, yeah it does look shitty and illogical.
i think I should clarify that I am only limiting the options because we are so close to deadline and this day has largely been inefficient. If a lynch does land on one of those five, at least that restores some efficiency to the game. Yes UT death makes the game less efficient but I think he is scum and don't want another "let's settle and vote some random dude" lynch. The list also forestalls that type of activity so in general I think it is pro-town to do at a time like this

I think a good thing to do would be at least take a look at Espe. (And also, like an opinion on me for completion)

[ActionDan]

[ActionDan]

You really want to give your sign to another player?

[ActionDan]

Town

and why are you scumreading titus?

I think town Titus would've done more than "what the hell".

Also ika wants to know your sign, titus.

"what the hell" in reaction to your vote?

why did you vote her?

Read uncertainty.

And your original vote on Titus was a reaction test?

[ActionDan]

You really want to give your sign to another player?

@Titus btw

[ActionDan]

[ActionDan]

I suppose a flash espe lynch is not in the cards. I'll read up today

[ActionDan]

I'm looking at cdbs vote amd having myself a sensible chuckle. A proper rebuttal, to basically everything, will have to come in the morning though.

[ActionDan]

I'm going to assume CDB didn't reconsider since he urged Vezok to vote me.

Going to start with ActionDan. I'm having a read over his iso (probably won't do this with everyone but think he should be concise enough for my eyes not to bleed).

One thing I find a bit off is how he talks

a bit

here and here about Marquis's read on TTH but it's nothing particularly serious and not really presented as something that's pressing or requires a response from Marquis to break anything open. But when he comes back three days later he implies it's more important than it looked before. That thing just doesn't feel like the sort of thing which would suffice me as an entry/exit point from the thread as town. I'm struggling to imagine town Dan caring enough to latch onto that three days later.

Espeonage case is lame, basically

For someone who keeps promising to read me, and has really recent experience with me as scum, it looks really weird that this is the only post in which he actually deals with me in any meaningful way, and even then it's very fence-sitty

Well, I got to the end of it. My eyes are drooping a bit so might reconsider this in the morning but basically there's not very much in it that grabs me. Part of the reason why I got pretty scared of ActionDan while he was alive in Retrospective Rehash was that, when he actually bothered to engage with the game, he had a lot of conviction behind him that I don't see here. I see pretty lame reasons on Espeonage (I know, I know) and

an almost bizarrely casual relationship to the major wagon that sprung up upon him - like, we got a bit more activity from him around that time, but there's not really any of the passion that I would associate with townDan facing his own lynch.

UNVOTE: Espeonage
VOTE: ActionDan

In process of trying to catch up but pretty much solidly in the UT boat of HOLY CRAP I JUST WANT A LYNCH, A FLIP, SOMETHING DEFINITE WITH WHICH TO WORK so pretty happy to go along with:

UNVOTE: Espeonage
VOTE: ActionDan

...especially as a) this reminds me a lot of his scum persona in the Reckoning invitational (exaggerated emotion)

Mmkkkay; heightened emotion = scum, passion = town: Wag of my finger to you. Besides the fact that a major difference between the games regarding my lynch was that here it was the first lynch of the day and there it was a lynch that many including myself thought would determine the fate of the game (making the stakes on RR much greater), I have just as much conviction in my reads here as anywhere else. AND IF I DIDN'T, that wouldn't even be scummy. But again, I do.

About TTH/Marquis. That was the last thing in my mind and basically the only thing I did up to that point - I'm not going to just forget about it after 3 days of absence. Nor is it correct to say that it's more important than it was before, or that I implied that. It's a continuation of my thought process and only inquiries at the time - a single question - which I struggle to see how it could be interpreted anymore than that.

That's great you think my Espeonage case is lame. Maybe explain why you think that. I was a curious so I looked at your read on him. IT'S BASED ON TWO NULL POSTS. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? And behavioral tells, not explained, unless they're connected to the 2 posts made on the first minor day. For someone who constantly says they need to refresh this read, you haven't done it, even now, and you have the gall to chastise me for not getting to reading you. It's true I meant to, but I could only get in a read on Espeonage before a major wagon broke out that I had to deal with. Afterwards you weren't actually a priority should you have been just because you were scum in RR. And for the record, I thought you were town until the last day, and I only challenged you because I noticed you were hard-defending Kise and skewing your VCA to make him look better. Also you weren't scared of me there IIRC.

---

That was horrid. Normally I'd consider reading over Titus but that prospect is daunting, and I don't think I'd see anything worse than this considering what I have read of her.

VOTE: CDB

Claim may be good enough to warrant a lynch on Aronis, maybe, but no one else.

[ActionDan]

Maybe I'd spare him for Aronis. maybe. I still don't really like the conviction he had telling Vezok to vote me when he had a shitty case and knows it. Also not really thinking about other viable options like Aronis.

The claim is reasonable, but it's not alquin. It's a tracker claim.

[ActionDan]

I felt that way because I was scum and you were right. Is this really a thing you're saying?

Yes, because it wasn't in the post-mortem afaik

[ActionDan]

Maybe I'd spare him for Aronis. maybe. I still don't really like the conviction he had telling Vezok to vote me when he had a shitty case and knows it.

The more important part was that you =/= me

There are 17 players who aren't you

Maybe I'd spare him for Aronis. maybe. I still don't really like the conviction he had telling Vezok to vote me when he had a shitty case and knows it. Also not really thinking about other viable options like Aronis.

The claim is reasonable, but it's not alquin. It's a tracker claim.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your activity and contributions to games make for a default perfectly acceptable case, so calling it a shitty case is short-sighted and ignorant.

I guess I'd do Aronis but this last comment is just really shady.

You mean the activity that isn't a problem anymore and the contributions/posts you at one point didn't want to lynch me for?


That case is BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, shitty. True facts.

I felt that way because I was scum and you were right. Is this really a thing you're saying?

Yes, because it wasn't in the post-mortem afaik

Well however many weeks later in post-game I didn't feel the need to address that specifically, but you can probably tell from our mafia PT that I was generally crapping myself from the day when we lynched Shinobi onwards. But honestly that's just a weird thing for you to assume that it didn't happen. You must know scum get scared when people are onto them

*Shurg* I saw words I didn't believe were true. It's largely irrelevant to your case anyway and it's not a big deal to me anyway.

[ActionDan]

Maybe I'd spare him for Aronis. maybe. I still don't really like the conviction he had telling Vezok to vote me when he had a shitty case and knows it.

The more important part was that you =/= me

There are 17 players who aren't you

Oh come on, don't pretend that post isn't in the context of me vocally hating the other non-me wagons. You're allowed to be angry and you're allowed to think I'm scum but don't be wilfully blind

I knew you'd say this. My rejoinder is that you didn't have faith in your own case against me, so what's the difference!
Also I had NO VOTES until you voted me, so if you want to get picky I guess what, 13-14 other players?

[ActionDan]

I don't want to distract you too much here. So I'd appreciate it if you read other people, formed fresh opinions. If you're town and get lynched, I'm not going to be happy about it.

I could be doing the same I guess, but I'm resistant to changing my vote if you're going to continue clinging on to yours for your stated reasons

pedit: Yeah I saw. As you go from town --> scum reads the amount you say about each decreases until you come to the 4 people you were scumreading and didn't have much to say at all. It's not exactly satisfactory for me, which is why I could reasonably expect you to vote for lots of people. My iso is not shorter than others at this point either btw.

[ActionDan]

actually scratch that. More like the certainty of your read decreases.

[ActionDan]

but if time weren't a thing I don't see why you'd expect me to vote for people outside of the big boxes where I sorted people into how willing I am to lynch them.

Because of what you came up with wrt me. Something you admit was bad.

[ActionDan]

People I guess I would lynch, if perhaps reluctantly:

Formerfish
Mastin2
Untrod Tripod

People whom I think might flip scum but on whom my reads are conflicted:

Bulbazak
Shadoweh

People whom I could pretty happily lynch Today:

ActionDan
Aronis
Espeonage
TellTaleHeart

What I'm saying is this: you don't have much to say about anyone in these categories really, except shadoweh. So on first sight to me they are mostly indistinguishable to you. Well maybe not completely but enough you could vote them maybe. There are 9 names here. If time weren't a thing, you could produce cases alike to the one on me. That one sucked. And I was a person you'd happily lynch. so the distinction between them is almost provably negligible now.

I suppose what I really mean is that I could expect you to vote for people in these categories and not your strong town ones. I didn't mean to imply otherwise

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Espeonage

Ching chong bring it on.

[ActionDan]

Ill be gone for 2 hours. Might be here just in time for deadline. If needed

[ActionDan]

Im back. And lynch is where?

[ActionDan]

Im back. And lynch is where?

nacho asks that if you have time, do an iso on Shadoweh.

Can't I just pretend I did. I was planning to watch some anime. I don't know if he wants an updated read from me or else help with his reads but I think the only thing I haven't really read is her interactions with CDB. early singer interactions and early posting were town

Im back. And lynch is where?

You make me sick as a player. If I had a choice I'd never have volunteered for the late because fuck players like you and Titus who make this game miserable for anyone to play, let alone win. And yes! Regardless of alignment!

Singer this isn't you. I hope you're ok

[ActionDan]

please give us as much time as you can, guys. I'm sorry our online time didn't coincide more this week, but we're doing our best to wrap up this last batch of reads.

If there is something more productive you'd like me to do than iso shadoweh name it, because you just walled to come to conclusion that I support.

[ActionDan]

please give us as much time as you can, guys. I'm sorry our online time didn't coincide more this week, but we're doing our best to wrap up this last batch of reads.

If there is something more productive you'd like me to do than iso shadoweh name it, because you just walled to come to conclusion that I support.

I think he wanted some external and blind confirmation that it makes sense.

Ok!

Nacho's shadoweh read.

he doesn't understand the scum-purpose of Shadoweh's beginning to sort-of push on Tammy in 207. Scum-Shadoweh knows that she is probably expected to townread Tammy and knows that implying Tammy is scum is going to bring Tammy's ire in her direction. Scum-Shadoweh also wouldn't going get any towncred from a push at all if she immediately backs off. Which she did.

Not a good town tell for her

Her push on singer actually looks like a decent and natural response to defend a townread in that way, Titus is a strange player to for shadoweh to buddy up to because even when Titus was being mostly townread she didn't have a large amount of sway. Nacho very much liked the #3 paragraph of 1903, especially the bit about "you won't be lynching me today".

in contrast, this is spot on!

This post by Shadoweh also feels quite town. It's also a good point: Nacho feels like CDB's worst scumread was Shadoweh because it was formed for apparently no reason. Nacho doesn't think scum would be likely to raise hell with someone because they forgot to include them in a scumlist.

this is good/fine

Shadoweh's apology to Espy in 2688 seems pretty solid and town.

and the rest of that post is good too, better than the apology which by itself isn't that revealing

Oh. You picked one of my only friends playing left. I wish I could disagree that big post felt weird.

Nacho didn't see this post before now, but holy shit it reads so town.

First sentence is town, anyway. The 2nd would have made me wary of BETRAYAL

Going to a STRONG townread when Dan started reacting feels nice and in line with our own thoughts. so do most of the interactions with Dan in general.

If only everone could, but yes, it's very good

Nacho kinda started this reread with the mindset that maybe he was only townreading Shadoweh because he likes Shadoweh as a person but going through her posts he now feels pretty strongly about her being town. he's come away with a good read on her instead of one of those "oh I think she's town here are reasons she's town" conf-bias reads. NACHO BELIEVES!

/claps

there you go.

Cant do anything else as I might mala and I have to plan for that

[ActionDan]

Might meet

[ActionDan]

Choose: Lock

Bane: Espeonage

[ActionDan]

If he's a VT it doesn't hurt, if he's scum, which there is every reason to believe considering how yesterday played out, it can only help.

[ActionDan]

You think that him not being lynched makes him more likely to be scum?

Yes. It'd be very easy for scum sitting in the wings not to participate at the very end in ensuring his lynch. Speaking of which, I'd like to know why Mastin didn't vote him when he was here.

@Singer: combined with ^, after his CDB vote he didn't show up again.

[ActionDan]

That's a perspective I can understand, but I think it's one scum are less likely to take when could have the town dead without looking like deadbeats in the process.

[ActionDan]

Just bane espeonage. No one seems to actually want to lynch him anyway for some reason

[ActionDan]

Yes. And I perfer "reasons"

[ActionDan]

Espeonage's attitude towards self-Baning Today feels pretty VT. I'm not sure I'd lynch him any more, despite my anger that he didn't die Yesterday.

I can and am seeing it as scum knowing that they're living past their expiration date

[ActionDan]

I'll accept a bane on condition of lynching espeonage.

[ActionDan]

@oversoul i believe you asked a question to me. I remember the answer being an emphatic "yes"

[ActionDan]

My opinion is that she deserves to be punished for not exceeding to the lynch of someone I don't remember her thinking was town. Being forced to reveal her role is good enough for me

[ActionDan]

Acceding*

[ActionDan]

Don't worry about it shadoweh, this bane isn't a big deal. I've accepted the fact that I'm caught inbetween people who scumread me for who knows what, people who just can't bring themselves to town read me and people who don't have a read and / or don't give a shit. Xoxo

Speaking of reasonless people who scumread read me, I'll add DV to that list since his grievances seem to be few, inconclusive, and unexplained. actually I think it's just him and singer Atm. God knows why she's in a fit, since all I remember hearing is that her teammates and herself all agreed I was scum for reasons that I don't think have been stated yet.

[ActionDan]

He meant kagamis

[ActionDan]

@AD, You can throw yourself a pity party while voting to bane town or you can do something about it. Like bane scum.

but i am baning scum.

@gamma, uneccessary paranoia hurts more than constant vigilance imo.

[ActionDan]

sure, but they'll turn self-destructive. The real thing is to have a good solid reasoned read and keep to it

[ActionDan]

Here UT,

have a vote

VOTE: UT

(also you may include a gif for this if you so please)

[ActionDan]

@cheet-k thanks

if it gets bigger than the AD wagon I'll hop on because my role for the rest of the day is basically just going to be lord and master of getting things done

I agree.

Call me back when the lynchings happen

or the boon.

@pedit:

I haven't really read him in any depth, and I'd prefer Espeonage tout-suite anyway. So.. maybe the 2nd lynch depending?

[ActionDan]

well we'll get there in time.

[ActionDan]

Hmm... This one is much harder...

[ActionDan]

Tbh giving it to scum isn't that big of a deal anyway. With jarvik alive we should assume scum will get off 2 kills anyway, since they have 4 unmakes (atm) to play around with plus detects which should garner a kill in addition to the one im sure they'd have scoped out with jarviks ability. The question becomes whether it's best to diversify. If cdb is town this will paint the target on his back ever redder.

Definitely not worth giving to mastin tho.

[ActionDan]

Yes page 186

[ActionDan]

I'm going to be gambling this weekend so my activity is about to fall off a cliff. Just fyi

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Espeonage

He's not even baned, thus the stars align!

[ActionDan]

AD ... (again, had done jack shit)?

This may have had a time and place.

It does not now.

@gamma, I can understand your feelings about UT. But if I were to lynch a 2nd candidate other than espeonage, I'm becoming more partial to DV's lynch, so I'm not sure who I'd choose between atm. I also think a reread of vezok bulba and Marquis/FF might be in order. But above and behond this I just want espeonage to flip. I promise it'll be a scum one.

Also I agree with the sentiment that not lynching because baned is dumb and should be discarded

[ActionDan]

Gamma...how is that different than every other UT game? He's actually the same as RRR and it's not like I want to reward that kind of behavior, but why wouldn't that be equally applicable to people like AD or FF (again, had done jack shit)?

Better? Seems to me like you're applying that to both of us and incidentally comparing that gammas UT which is mostly based on him doing jack shit

[ActionDan]

UT is scum because he hasn't put in the actual effort of trying to find scum this game, and all of his genuine-looking posts are things he would be feeling as scum as well. His shitting on ffery's reads over and over again is a crutch he's using to avoid posting actual content and reads of his own, and his "read" on me is a reactive piece of trash that has no actual basis on my posting in the game.

Ok I won't argue with the jack shit thing since I just read the rest of your post and it's on the top, but if you really find this read applicable to me then that's a problem, because I'm hard pressed to find any one point here possibly related to my play (currently, not ages ago minor D1 and early Major Day 1) in any of what this describes (FF I can see maybe the "hasn't put in effort to find scum", since defacto he hasn't afaik). I also don't think your description of my play since minor D1 and Major D1 is accurate

[ActionDan]

After that, as I've stated twice in the post above

[ActionDan]

I mean I personally feel from after the first Major Day 1 lynch to end of day is plenty to "break a pattern"

[ActionDan]

Hey look Titus.
Look.

Marquis comes off town in the Marquis-Deas interaction. Nacho noticed that Marquis reached out and sort of attached himself to Deas earl and he doesn't think that Marquis does that as scum or that the two of them do it as scum-scum. he felt that Marquis's side of the interactions felt very very honest while DV's didn't exactly excite and come off town to the same xtent. Nacho doesn't like DV's reads at this point in time. the sudden townread on Espeonage when he didn't have that townread feels fishy as all hell on it's own without any of the other things that ping.

I thought ffery was trying to push for it more but it is there and she certainly didn't call him a townread.

But hey, I'm just trying to prove people wrong at this point because I feel like people are ignoring me out of spite at this point.

I <3 you

[ActionDan]

oh - the only reason titus isn't 100% [town] is because nacho usually has uncertainty in his titus reads. not having uncertainty is ironically a source of small uncertainty.

Lynch on me is dumb because we should at least pretend to still care about ffery

Vote: Titus

The care just oozes from you

[ActionDan]

Ffery would not endorse a Titus lynch
In fact my guess is that given the choice based on her read list, ffery would rather lynch you than titus if she had a choice.

Otherwise I'm not sure what you are trying to imply

[ActionDan]

Presumably because one is detailed and analyzed and vetted by strong teammates... and iirc gif sheeped ffery half the time and TSO had maybe 3-4 underdeveloped reads... I mean.

[ActionDan]

TTH was a highly scumread player at the time, so tracing her is town motivated.

You mean after she become ~confirmed town?

[ActionDan]

rubbing your nipples

how did he know?!?

I can't in good concious do that when espeonage is alive and kicking. UT has a decent chance of flipping scum, but espeonage will actually do that.

[ActionDan]

I'll be gone this weekend much like last weekend

[ActionDan]

Er. Gamma if you are alquin, nows the time, imo

[ActionDan]

UT, for clarification, your main scumreads atm are oversoul and gamma?

I still think it's bullshit singer's team token distribution was 0/2/0/3 but it doesn't really matter to me much. My prediction is actually 2 on game choices plus 0/1/1/1, for posterity. Vezoks point would be fine if it weren't for the early dialogue being between tammy and empire's via proxy

[ActionDan]

For me lynching UT is still up in the air.

[ActionDan]

Please assume I have a comprehensive idea of all arguments for and against

[ActionDan]

Espeonage anyone?

[ActionDan]

Mastin is like a doctor tho.

I would have detected.

I won't say I'm opposed ti the top two wagons atm but I believe aronis/dv would be 100% better, and espeonage would be $$☆

[ActionDan]

Okay. I guess it's time for money to meet mouth.

VOTE: aronis

[ActionDan]

Aronis wagon is literally TSO 2.0

I honestly don't regret that one.

[ActionDan]

TownTownTown

Oversoul, Gammagooey, ActionDan, Cheetory

Town

Shadoweh, Titus, Singer, GiF, Vezok,

Aronis

, FormerFish

Kinda Town:

Bulbazak, CDB, Mastin, FormerFish

Leftovers:

DV, Espeonage, tth, UT

Shortly after that big post that I linked by her.

These changed a little I think, unless it was nachos reads. In any case if we're pursuing this route of inquiry the question could have been asked a long time ago why titus and singer didn't get along even though singer was a ffery town read.

[ActionDan]

It's my impression that bulba has shown up

[ActionDan]

Here's hoping. was a crappy hammer but w.e

[ActionDan]

well that sort of looks like what I'd expect the BP part of what mastin claimed to have been, so

And aronis demonstrates why he was a superior lynch choice immediately.

Bte @anx: I want that horse actually dead

[ActionDan]

Dan is that he is pushing hard for people to vote for people who end up being town. Now this could just be really bad luck with his reads, and I think that could be the case, except for one thing. Dan hasn't really done anything that I can remember him for otherwise. He has basically been nonexistent and no one seems to be saying shit about it. It was like when people were railing against me for not posting when Aro had been mia for much longer.

Like who? The only one that's maybe arguable, and that's a BIG maybe, is Tso, the only person I have voted for who has flipped town. And it's not correct to say I pushed people to vote him. The only player I've ever reallllly pushed for was espeonage whom I still think will flip scum.

So let's not lynch Shadoweh, now or ever. Just because her activity has gone down a tad doesn't mean she's suddenly scum. Plus she's the only one so far that seems to have a good take on the VCA. We've had 2 wagons with 2/3 same people on flipped town, our only two lynchees; it's delusional to think that there wasn't scum on the wagons. Bulbas lynch was mediocre at best and unlike TSOs it wasn't a deadline lynch. Nor does the excuse that it was a reasonable choice impress me when there's almost no vacillation from anyone on the wagon wrt their next votes today. Atm if I would lynch anyone in that wagon it'd be aronis. If there's another scum it gets tougher and i dunno who itd be.

That said it's not wrong for people to want to lynch off wagon, if you think there's only 1-2 on wagon that's 1-2/9 as opposed to 2-3/8. Usually it's easier to hunt on wagon because shitty votes tend to stick out more to balance it out.

I favor people just scumhunting though considering the percentages are low enough that it's not neccesary to look exclusively at one or the other of on/off wagon votes

[ActionDan]

Espeonage is probably town, but I might be putting too much faith in ~reasons for him being town.

When did this change and why?

[ActionDan]

Am I voting currently? That's news to me!

[ActionDan]

I'm currently weighing other options. I am also of the opinion that the only person I might convince to vote with me there is oversoul, and only if I beg, so overlooked is he

[ActionDan]

We've had 2 wagons with 2/3 same people on flipped town, our only two lynchees; it's delusional to think that there wasn't scum on the wagons

I'm not sure how titus VCA works, nor do I really care (and if that means a repeat of inuyasha, then so be it), but this part is true. it was the main tool I had to suspect Kise in recks game when I couldn't tell simply by posting. What you think is "a whole herd of town" very easily could have a scum in it. Why you'd ever include aronis in that group I'm not sure (besides the fact titus voted for him) but even in people not named aronis that were on bulba, it's possible there is scum in the remaining 7 not including yourself

[ActionDan]

It really isn't.

We're just in what feels like a shitty situation because the lynch we're on right now would be Day 4 in any other game and we've no-lynched/mislynched up till this point.

And tbh it's not *that bad* just yet.

[ActionDan]

Also mastin gives me the tiniest bit of hope for the future.

With the future being in the form of a dead Espeonage

VOTE: Espeonage

Top two wagons atm make me want to cry

[ActionDan]

I know. I'm probably going to default to it if these continue to be the only other choices.

OR possibly Anx wagon happens (very possible!) and then there'd be a real choice

[ActionDan]

I guess maybe FF is like, Auxiliary, because people are into his grill too

[ActionDan]

DV's replacement's name shortened

[ActionDan]

Yes. Caveat: everyone on the anxiety wagon was also on the bulba qagon. That's making me uncomfortable. Still I'll try to do a side by side comparison of anx and aronis soon

[ActionDan]

I have. Aronis is not scumhunting or giving reasons for his reads. It's near impossible to get a wagon on him. He's literally lurking out his wagon.

Honestly this is just true.

VOTE: Aronis

Anxiety going through will be OK I guess but atm it's missing a confidence factor. The only thing I have on him his shitty votes on me all if Maj. D1. This may change pending a reread.

@singer: you may not see a problem with the wagon compositions being the exact same (with I believe the notable expection of Aronis) but I do when the former was a mislynch. I don't believe that a comraderie of all town moved and shook to execute it.

Btw @espy, I'm not sure what the point of the question is but 4 scum in 20 when it's 2 lynches per day and 2/3 kills per night is not by itself scumsided. Especially with the minor days/nights always being largely beneficial for town.

[ActionDan]

Lots of cuts.

[ActionDan]

I agree. I don't care who goes first

[ActionDan]

Cheetory could you state why you think now espeonage is town? This is the 2nd time.

[ActionDan]

I really want to cheets. To sort out a few people especially our 2 lynch candidates. Both of them being scum is a real possibility and fanastic, one can dream. The thing about Aronis you mentioned tho, is that not something that is prototypical scum behavior? I think it's strange to immediately jump to say that it's only cause for a mislynch. Also I thought the main reason for people voting dv was shitty reads.

In any case shaking the tree is fine. I'll try to do more of that in between my sister's graduation this weekend.

[ActionDan]

My read on Espeonage is kind of hard to explain atm. A combination of a gut feeling that the lynch would have been more likely to go through if he was scum that I can't really put into words and the fact that I'm still alive atm.

Its a shame you feel that way, especially since if it were me I wouldn't put stock into any of these feelings. (do you really think scum kills you after espeonage announces he knows your sign?)

[ActionDan]

He's effectively L with mastin and aronis in the wings. Id like to read over stuff before day end so if we could wait a tad that'd be great. Immediate reaction to claim is that it's not that bad tho unsure why Victor ability wasn't listed as transcendent

[ActionDan]

You called?

I did receive a pm confirming you as town. Which is helpful to probably everyone but me XD.

I think there's not much reason not to reveal why you think espeonage is town cheetory. You could die easily next major night

[ActionDan]

Unless your role would make if clear

[ActionDan]

Guys chance of actually agreeing on 3 lynches in timely manner? I am not really sure that potential 3rd lynch will either cone to fruition or else be horribly rushed

[ActionDan]

bane anx

Can do this tho

[ActionDan]

VOTE: keeeep