Mini 1663: Rick and Morty Mafia (Game Over)

[Jingle]

Nope. I call shenanigans. Reroll the setup, my character is awful. Unless someone wants to trade flavors.

[Jingle]

Okay, RIP is Jerry now. He'd better fucking flip that.

VOTE: heartless

I watched you open your role pm last night. You're not town.

(Heartless is in this game right?)

[Jingle]

God, waiting on you guys is terrible. I'm gonna continue groundlessly speculating. Rick is probably scum. The rest of the scum team is probably his cohorts, (i.e. the doctor for the Hobo-Theme-Park or Morty). Flavor wise there aren't really any bad guys, just people that kinda get pulled into his wake (and subsequently have their lives ruined). He definitely makes sense as the informed minority.

And I can already see the headache unfolding when I get kthx and d3x confused.

[Jingle]

evil rick/evil morty that killed all the ricks/kidnapped all the mortys- Fair point. Although they'd be better as an SK imo.
the slug thing that tried to rape morty- Really? Really?
the zigerions- I suppose, I just don't really see them as a threat. I guess they would make sense for a non Rick scumteam, but ehh.
council of ricks- Doesn't really make sense to me as an informed minority.
the devil / mr. needful- Who ever said the devil was bad?
snuffles/snowball- Except the conclusion, where he's Morty's friend.
scary terry- Actually a good guy, dumbass.
gazorpazorpians- The one that we actually spend any real time with is Morty's son, and the rest are minor at best.
hepatitis b/gonorrhea- In the same way as a bear, sure. But no. They're not really gonna fit the bill.
the guy w/ the caribbean accent that goes all heart of darkness on anatomy park
king flippynips- I wouldn't be surprised here, actually, except that this was a secondary plotline that only involved Jerry and Morty.
the lady janitor from the titanic- Again, only ever involves Jerry, back up plot.
the bully(ies) from morty's school- You mean the one who gets frozen to death by Rick or the one with no name?
the meseeks (after they go apeshit berserko)- reaching like a motherfucker.

And as far as Rick not making any sense, look at the list of characters he kills or minimizes that's not inherently evil in anyway, starting with the bureaucrats and school children in episode one and ending with the rest of the cast (Abradolf Linkler, .

You do have a point with the "Dark Coalition" bit though, I don't think that fits the scumteam I was thinking of. :/ Back to the drawing board.

[Jingle]

I'm mobile, and have been busy most of the day (as anti should know) and assumed the flavor shit was in my role pm or the opening post. Mostly cause I don't think anti would make that kind of assumption.

I await your explanations in the morning.

[Jingle]

Also because some people have asked.
Standard wincons.

You win when all threats to [Your Alignment] are eliminated and at least one of the [Your Alignment] is still alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

For reference, not me.

[Jingle]

I'm mobile, and have been busy most of the day (as anti should know) and assumed the flavor shit was in my role pm or the opening post. Mostly cause I don't think anti would make that kind of assumption.

I await your explanations in the morning.

Smells like bullshit to me to cover up

VOTE: Jingle

Seriously with this kind of show anything could be the scum team.

I'm lying that I'm mobile and didn't actually check anything? Why?

As scum, who has other people in the game that I can count on to realize I've been away from home since this morning, why not just shut up and let everyone else argue it out.

I looked at anti's post and saw information I didn't know. I figured that meant I hadn't read it, because otherwise why would he post it? If it was a scumslip I'd know soon enough. And anti's "I know the scumteams name" thing is pretty :/

On the other hand flames feels opportunistic here. He hasn't added anything to the discussion, and he's voting me without really giving a reason that he thinks I'm scum.

VOTE: Flames

[Jingle]

I'm at L-1 for a shitty reason, more to follow, but don't vote me unless you want to scumclaim.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Jingle. Same reason as everyone else, has info he shouldn't have.

VOTE: jingle

So what's jingle play here? He named the dark coalition as a bad team? So he must be scum?

Makes sense if that's correct

I assumed that Heartless's flavor was just something I hadn't read yet. Presumably in the OP flavor. I didn't remember seeing Dark Coalition anywhere, but Heartless isn't careless enough to scumslip like that in my experience. For anyone who knows me, however, neither am I. Given the amount of people voting without knowing a thing they're talking about, I'm certain there's scum on my wagon, but I somehow doubt all the opportunistic voters are scum together.

I'm mobile, and have been busy most of the day (as anti should know) and assumed the flavor shit was in my role pm or the opening post. Mostly cause I don't think anti would make that kind of assumption.

I await your explanations in the morning.

kjlf;dsmciea;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
did you not read your role PM prior to posting in this thread?

I read it, and clarified my action by PM. I didn't pay attention to wincons. And I'm pretty sure you know that's about par for the course for me.

[Jingle]

Nevermind, I got lynched.

Anti, you should be fucking ashamed of yourself. You really should. Your "scumslip" theory is retarded. Especially since the first thing I do as scum who didn't get a sample VT PM is ask for one.

Seriously man, you're better than this.

[Jingle]

I am pretty sure my role is going to be linked to an anti-town so probably need to claim it out the gate. I am Mr Meeseeks... technically mod never game me a role name more than being aligned with the good guys. I have a compulsive ability to perform a certain player's actions for them, I don't know the action, their role, their alignment, etc. Also its an unblockable action. This is something I have only seen a variant of once before, and it was scum controlling town. If somepony can figure out who is going to be targeting me each night, that would be nice. Until they are dead I am also going to be randomly acting so just a heads up.

This is probably town, just so you guys know. And on that note, I bid you all adieu.

[Jingle]

Shit. I saw the prod, I'll be back tomorrow to catch up and post, although it may be late at night.

[Jingle]

We are not mass claiming, how it's that helpful?

Newbie theme mod, already forgot to post sample role PM, my role suggests power heavy game, we have already seen a few minor mod errors.

All very good reasons to massclaim early. Too many ponies are just nervous about it since it goes against ingrained instinct.

@Heatless - How does Jingle claiming Jerry fit into what you are seeming to accuse him of with him being an antagonist and trying to flip that around? He literally name claimed already, and you are the one that brought up the "Dark Collation" thing to start, and if its in your role, how do you know its not in his? Its not like he mentioned it randomly, you brought it up, he echoed it. I almost would bet that Heartless is more likely scum than Jingle because he is trying to paint the win condition thing as a scum thing... which if he is town he should know is null.

This attack is bad. Mainez and lufan look really bad in it.

@lufan - Doesn't all the information that Jingle "isn't supposed to have" information that Heartless brought up first? Explain why you are voting Jingle, without quoting any reasons that Heartless has posted, because I think you have no clue why you are voting him.
@Mainez - Why would you want Jingle lynched without knowing what "Dark Coalition" is?
@Elbrin - Why are you assuming scum didn't get safe claims?

Given my role PM, I'm not really convinced massclaim would be good. If there's more people like me, it's gonna be a waste of time. And, yeah, that was a flavor claim.

Ew OMGUS

VOTE: JINGLE

Am I voting right?

Sorry if it's already been asked, but how much forum mafia experience do you have and where?

Are you saying that team scum would have likely been told what the town faction name is?

Actually, that's a pretty reasonable assumption. In theme games where the mod isn't an idiot, scum are either given safeclaims, or the flavor is assigned independently of roles and alignments. Given that Heartless's Dark Coalition meshes with the source material to allow for a themed scumteam, safeclaims are almost a given.

Also elbin if you think mainez and jingle are scum why u think I am too?
I almost hammered jingle and then when onto mainez. What's up man

Why are you fishing for towncred on unflipped associative tells? This seems REALLY defensive.

Of course jingle disappearing makes me paranoid.

Sorry, I closed the tab on my phone and hadn't bookmarked it yet, so I was just kinda waiting on a deadthread PM.

I'mma sheep the shit outta 134.

VOTE: RIP

Heartless I never said I was a newb.
I'm new in this site and pretty dissapointed at how level one players are here. It could be culture clash I guess but my god you guys are vain.

I don't know how u think I'm scum.
I voted and then moved off and then went back. I don't know his role but I'm hoping is scum.

@meds went wrong just acts like I'm bussing my partner, so he thinks we are both scum? Lol. I never buss that's for fucking losers which im sure is like a usual thing here.

Fuck that shit. 1. If you don't like the way we play mafia, then you're more than welcome to not. 2. Going into a room and criticizing everyone else for not being similar to you is judgemental as fuck and a clear indicator of narcissistic personality types, which makes the vanity point laughable. It's also incredibly rude and insulting, so good job, you've alienated me. 3. If you don't understand something, the town response is to ask questions and try to figure it out. 4. Yeah, except the part where there was absolutely no progression of reads there. You voted me, and you unvoted me, and you voted me again, but there was no reasons. You were reacting to the way the thread was moving. 5. "I don't bus" is both self meta (Worse than useless) and WIFOM (useless). Add to this the liberal helping of ATE sprinkled throughout the post... :/ You're not trying to solve the game, at all.

U guys don't keep track of stats here right? So far I been mislynched each game. Funny thing is my reads were scary good each time.
I put fear in wolf heart. I own you bitches

Maybe don't blame the gun for the man holding it. If you get mislynched every game, I see a couple possibilities. Either you really suck at playing and aren't charismatic enough to derail lynches on you ever, or you really suck and the scumteam never has to worry about killing you. Which is it?

At heartless:
I think for scum I have something like jingle, elbirn and maybe mainez.

If jingle is a town then I'm gonna suspect meds went wrong, and lufan too.

Chaining mislynches. Nice.

I need jingle to post. I have so,e questions that might help us

Ask away. I'm heading to work in a minute, but I'll be back in roughly 10 hours. Unless I'm to drunk to remember my password, in which case I'll see you monday.

[Jingle]

Second thing: The Jingle-could-be-scum-slip thing is/should be the main focus for today I think. We have Heartless dropping what is apparently the scum team name in one post with Jingle echo'ing it shortly after like it's a known fact. We then have Heartless saying the info is known to them because of their role and Jingle explaining that he thought it was written somewhere and didn't search to see if it was. I spent too much time on this I think, but all in all, with how Heartless went about it and using the info to call Jingle scum, I don't see how Heartless could be scum. Reading through Jingle makes me think he's scum who got caught, attempted to dig himself out, and then disappeared to take the heat off. I especially don't like his 'oh noes I is lynched' posting. Someone else said it somewhere and I will agree, it reads fake as hell.

Hey Kthx. You scum? Or just another VI game for you?



Reads, since someone asked so nicely.

Town:

Heartless
RBD
D3X
Meds

In descending order of confidence, although Heartless and RBD are both at "I'd rather lynch me than this" level townreads.

RIP is a strong scumread and also I want to lynch him because he insulted me and my intelligence and I don't want to turn this game into a series of insults like my brother would.

There is probably 1-2 scum on my wagon at any point in time, but I doubt it's been scumfree since Heartless unvoted me. Thus I want to look into those players more.

And I have a metric shitton of VI reads.

Sorry, meant to add this to the previous post. Leaving for real this time.

[Jingle]

If you don't rub their nose in it, they're never gonna learn. And there's a big difference between "You guys are being dumb" and "Everyone on this site is stupid". I find one of those offensive.

[Jingle]

Anypony else notice the players who are lurking and refusing to answer questions are all voting Jingle? Decent enough town tell on him right there that most of the wagon has no clue why they are on it.

I noticed. I just also noticed that that described too many people for them all to be scum.

[Jingle]

I've played with Jingle before, so I still need to find that game and compare.

Twice, I believe. Once in house mafia where you thought me saying some diagnosticians might be scum and once in one of sc's games where I tunneled on someone the entire game on derptown and a scumteam of you and Titus rolled town hard. I may be missing some, but I'm mobile, so I'll check my game list later.

Tell me about how me town makes heartless scum, please. That sounds fascinating, given that I'm pretty sure we're both town.

[Jingle]

I posted a warning to prevent a quickhammer. Then I actually read all of the intervening posts so I could actually respond to them. As best I can tell though, I counted both heartless votes as separate the second time. Probably because I was frustrated over being voted for shitty reasons.

Any particular reason you've ignored the false dichotomy accusation?

[Jingle]

As far as I know this is every game me and Kthx have played together.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=36900- UDesign (Both Town)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... it=jingle- (Me Scum)

[Jingle]

What do you think of my argument for him being scum.

[Jingle]

I need jingle to post. I have so,e questions that might help us

Just pm him why don't you?

-1-

Is that legal? That's a Modkill in other forums

No.

Jingle I was gonna ask you to claim, I can probably clear you then but out myself
Then I'll be Nk.
If u think this is scummy then don't it but don't expect any help then

No. And I have no clue what you're talking about.

[Jingle]

Do you have TownReads on the players RIP was suggesting we go after once you've flipped? How do you feel about this being a direct response to Heartless asking RIP for more Reads?

I've got a town read on Meds and a null read on Lufan. And the reads being prompted doesn't excuse the fact that they're all conditional.

Woops, meant to have this as part of the last post.

[Jingle]

Post 207 left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Particularly the fact Aris leaned on RIP's lack of charisma in lieu of his play.

Yeah, it's actually kinda raising doubts about the RIP lynch. That and the softclaim.

My hesitation is that any role that could confirm someone should be able to claim and dodge the lynch for a day, and RIP seems pretty resigned to getting lynched. It just doesn't really match up. TTH, do you have any thoughts on the why here, cause it doesn't make any sense to me.

[Jingle]

Why, Flames? What makes you think that?

Luf, it's just a catch all for scum voting other scum for towncred.

[Jingle]

Actually, no, you're right. I just looked at the wagon of RIP, and he's probably town.

VOTE: Lufan

[Jingle]

Post 230 pretty much contradicted everything Jingle said.

Yeah, except the wagon on him is made up of the same group as the wagon on me at the beginning of the game with about the same level of understanding the lynches. Combine that with the fact that he softclaimed something and I'm more than willing to let scum sort him for me.

And holy shit guys.

YOU NEVER FUCKING KILL A CLAIMED DOC D1. NEVER. HAVE YOU BEEN EATING LEAD?

[Jingle]

Actually, no, you're right. I just looked at the wagon of RIP, and he's probably town.

VOTE: Lufan

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

walk me through that a

little

bit more
,

mr. jingle

what you told us


was
that the wagon was made up of

sheep

how does that effect the accuracy of the wagon

and

why is
lufan any more likely to be scum?

(also, ppl sheeping tth's walls is kind of par for the course regardless of accuracy)

Fair point on the sheep bit. But the votes themselves do not inspire too much confidence. I'd been having second thoughts on RIP since 200. In addition This:

Jingle - Elbirn, Flames682, d3x, Lufan131, My Meds Went Wrong L-2

And this:

RIP - Elbirn, Heartless, Jingle, Aristophanes, d3x, Lufan131 L - 1

Are a little to close for comfort, in both composition and speed. I know one was wrong, which suggests to my mind that the other is as well.

Add in this:

Oh good. I'm not the only one who read RIP as scummy while reading over this.
VOTE: RIP

Phone is about to die, will have a proper post once I'm home.

I see how voting jingle was a bad idea. VOTE: RiP

And I felt that there was too much fuel being added to the fire there.

Plus, it's not like it's a big surprise this was coming. I've been wary of the lynch for more than a page now and expressed that before I unvoted.

Post 207 left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Particularly the fact Aris leaned on RIP's lack of charisma in lieu of his play.

Yeah, it's actually kinda raising doubts about the RIP lynch. That and the softclaim.

My hesitation is that any role that could confirm someone should be able to claim and dodge the lynch for a day, and RIP seems pretty resigned to getting lynched. It just doesn't really match up. TTH, do you have any thoughts on the why here, cause it doesn't make any sense to me.

Now tell me what you've been smoking that you think it's okay to lynch a claimed doc. Because it's not.

I'm going to work. I'll be back in 5 hours or so. Unvote til then as a favor to me.

[Jingle]

Town:

Heartless
RBD
D3X
Meds

This hasn't changed much. I'll elaborate after work.

[Jingle]

And RIP? Is he town to you now?

Not really no. But it doesn't matter, and I'm not gonna waste any more effort on reading him, because any bodyguard claim that lives to lylo is scum.

Heartless, what exactly did yakko do that is so questionable? Alternatively, why is lufan town?

[Jingle]

Yeah, TTH. But it doesn't matter. Either he gets killed and we don't have to worry about him, or he doesn't and we lynch him later. He has an expiration date now. We don't have to worry about him today, or even tomorrow. Protective claim means reevaluate on D3.

In the hypothetical where loofah is just lost, why isn't he saying anything to that effect instead of pretending he knows what's going on? Why doesn't he appear to be trying to figure things out.

Loofah, feel free to answer those questions yourself since they sum up my problem with you.

He then still sounded bad so I didn't care. I wanted him to claim and he didn't. Jingle might be a PR like me or have extra info and be scum.

Could we please stop talking about my hypothetical power role? If I have a power role, I'm going to continue pretending I don't because scum doesn't need to know. If I don't have a power role, I'm going to continue pretending I don't so that scum can't work it out. Now shut the fuck up about it.

[Jingle]

Obviously there's that pesky rule about not talking about other games in progress, but let's just say that I'm under the impression that this is just how Lufan is. He's not the kind of person I want in lylo, but I'm not very confident in him being scum. I think he's legitimately confused newbtown.

Looking through his topics, I see no justification for this.

Noting this for later consideration.

[Jingle]

TownRIP has no reason to lie about the things he lied about. ScumRIP definitely has everything to gain by getting away with the lies he's put forth. RIP has not addressed the lies, nor can he.

My Vote is not moving.

Sure man, but have you looked at the part where it doesn't matter? After work I'll quote myself from one of my bodyguard games, but RIP isn't the play today.

@lufan131 can you explain why you found voting Jingle to be a bad idea and switched to RIP?

meanwhile...

vote: lufan131

Because I knew that Jingle was less likely to be scum due to the flash-wagon, and if it didn't succeed, I figured I'd have no reason to vote anymore, due to it being a hopeless cause?

Um, what? This is a scumclaim. Seriously, just read it.

[Jingle]

It says that I'm likely to be town because of how fast the wagon was. And independent of that, he has no reason to vote me because "[lynching me] is a hopeless cause."

Unless I'm reading that wrong, he's saying that he'd lynch me if he could AND he thinks I'm town. Luffa, care to clarify? Cause that sounds like a scumclaim to me.

Also could someone who isn't mobile check when he invited, cause I remember it being significantly after the wagon started collapsing and if that's true its proof that he's full of BS.

[Jingle]

I unvoted after it collapsed. I just have remembered when I played, hyperlynching usually results in the death of a town player. I also believe that it's a hopeless cause to lynch someone after the wagon has collapsed, although I still sucmread you, and think it's for the best.

Seriously, though, does no one else see the cogdis here? Am I nuts?

[Jingle]

Massclaim. Seriously. Way too much has been claimed at this point where scum already probably have quite the hoof up on us, may as well try and break it back at this point, especially as the game seems PR heavy as I assumed it was to start. PR heavy games are more easily optimized.

Again, based on my role I don't think that mass claim is going to be worth it. But I won't really argue against it at this point, cause we've got a pretty ridiculous amount of power outed or soft-outed.

And kthx, please read the goddamn thread.

[Jingle]

Can someone explain cogdis?

Cognitive dissonance. Stress experienced by simultaneously holding two conflicting beliefs, i.e. "Policemen are generally good people" and "Police corruption is rampant".

In this case, your two stated beliefs, that a quickwagon on me makes me likely town and that I'm probably scum are actively contradicting each other. This is likely to come from scum because they are literally arguing things that they don't believe, because they have to.

And kthx, please read the goddamn thread.

Piss off. It's D1. The chances we hit scum D1 are small as are the scum tells.

So we should lynch a protective role? Are you serious?

OK, so did you unvote Jingle because you think he's likely to flip town or because you can't lynch him? Because you kind of just said both.

Because I can't lynch him, although I believe he's scum.

So why did you say:

Because I knew that Jingle was less likely to be scum due to the flash-wagon,

Flail harder, please.

You claimed a role that is NOT provable unless you happen to target the same person scum target AND you claim to show scum if investigated. Please tell me why it's so wierd to you that you're being scum read because of it. Explain how your claim makes you conf town in anyone's eyes but your own.

Okay.

Mini Theme 1629: Guardians of the Galaxy II - Game Over

You're ignoring the fact that as a bodyguard lynching me is retarded. I WILL NOT MAKE IT TO LYLO.

I need to do work in a bit, so you guys'll have to wait for more.

Check that game. I was a bodyguard. I was a pretty universal scumread. I didn't get lynched, because I was able to shout down rampant stupidity. I died the next night because HOLY SHIT, BODYGUARDS DON'T LIVE UNTIL LYLO.

If he continues to live, he has to justify why he targeted people who didn't die. If scum roleblock him to stop him from protecting people, they aren't using that on more important roles. If he doesn't bodyguard suitably powerful town roles or sufficiently obvtown players, he becomes obvscum.

There is literally no reason that he should be lynched today. And I've said that before, so read the goddamn thread.

[Jingle]

P dodge.

Sorry guys, I haven't caught up since FCBD weekend. I should be able to read tomorrow morning though.

[Jingle]

Jerry Smith, visitor by flavor but the mod confirmed it has some game effect so Inventor by mafia reasons.

Given my flavor, I'm guessing I'm a negative utility inventor, so I'll be targeting a scumread.

Aristophanes, you're up.

[Jingle]

Aristophanes
Jingle: Inventor (Presumably negative utility)
Flames682: tracker (scary terry)
Heartless
Elbirn: conditional neighborizer (jessica)
Killerjester: Active Dreamer (1 shot something)
Kthxbye: one-shot name cop (xenon bloom)
lufan131: one shot bp vig (snuffles/snowball)
RIP: miller bodyguard (lincler)
d3x: reflexive self-targeting busdriver (rick)
Rainbowdash: ????? something controlled (meeseeks)
hi im Yakko: weak watcher (leonard)
Mainez: JK



Also, lufan, did you realclaim? Cause I took it as a joke when I first read it.

[Jingle]

I really doubt it. Hidden vig is pretty bastard.

[Jingle]

Because we're gonna wait until Aristophane claims. If he's scum no need to give him extra information.

[Jingle]

This is boring now. Instead of WW we are now guessing which role is fake.
Lol. Kille please I don't want to be part of this town anymore

Why not do both? o_O

Anyway, something occurred to me last night that made me think killerjester is scum but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

Really? I thought the claim was weird in a "this can't be fake" kinda way.

[Jingle]

Also, Jingle's claimed ability and Mr. Needful would fit like a glove. :S

What?

[Jingle]

Oh. Inventor. Like I said, flavor wise I visit people. I'm only an inventor in the sense that I actually have some effect. I don't know how my effects are justified flavor-wise because I have no idea what they are yet.

Once you and Aristophanes have claimed, I'm going to work on optimal night actions. I have some thoughts, but I don't want to talk about them at the moment, due to waiting on Aristophanes.

[Jingle]

in between/conflicted because tth has a crush on jingle

Given that I don't care to discuss anything game relevant at the moment, what's your thoughts on this? Do you really have a crush on me?

[Jingle]

I'm gonna take that as an admission of guilt.

[Jingle]

Can we wait until Aristophanes claims before we discuss balance issues? Seriously. Dude has not claimed yet, let's not discuss what makes a claim good or bad right now.

[Jingle]

Claim now.

[Jingle]

Heartless, you're up.

[Jingle]

:/

Miller without cop is interesting. I'm definitely behind copping that.

I'm gonna theory craft this afternoon.

[Jingle]

Before we get on with it though, artist, could you ask if your target is notified?

[Jingle]

Positive utility- tracker, odd night weak doc, neighborizer, active dreamer, 1x name cop, miller bodyguard, 1x JK

Neutral utility- motion detector, self busdriver,

Negative utility- vanilla-izer, bp vig, meseeks, presumably me

Scum utility roles- vanilla-izer. meseeks, presumably me, busdriver, name cop, tracker

Roles with questionable matches to flavor: aristophanes, Jingle, Kthx, yakko, mainez

I see a distinct lack of hard investigation in this setup, and a ridiculous amount of protection. Heartless, how does your role interact with a miller?

Kthx is probably functionally a 1-shot cop here, given the assumption that flavor matters. I'm fine with assuming that on the basis of "Dark Coalition" being a named scumteam and the morty clone thing from Elbirn's PM.

Just a quick glance here tells me that neither the vig nor the vanilla-izer should act today. I'd like to use my ability tonight to figure out what it does just in case. If I'm right and it's negative utility, Aristophanes can vanillaize me the next night and we can prove his role as well. The busdriver will never be able to act like a vig now that he's claimed and is functionally an ascetic bg, thus shouldn't be targeted by town. If he lives too long he's a concern, but he's likely to

I had been thinking Meseeks was the source of the scumkill, but that's probably not true with the only powerful investigative in the game being a tracker. He's probably still scum controlled though, which means no one should target him. Ever. A tracker result to RBD is a guilty and means you're scum. Conversely, there are too many nerfed protective roles in the game for there to be a possibility of no investigatives at all. No way in hell are all of these weakened without there being some kind of follow the cop possible.

Here's my preliminary thoughts.

Tracker targets as he will. Claims his results in thread the day after.

Weak doc should target tracker tonight. Bodyguard should target weak doc. Busdriver should target bodyguard. That way we know that the tracker is town. The tracker can't be killed. The doc can't be killed. And the person protecting the doc can't be killed or roleblocked. Kthx should target RIP cause he has a chance at faking a guilty. If we don't lynch Yakko he should target the doc to prove the bodyguard actually targeted him as protection.

Meanwhile, Elbirn should target as he chooses. Main should wait until tomorrow to JK the doc.

That leaves the lynch pool as {Me, Yakko, Aristophanes, KJ, Lufan, No Lynch}, at least for today.

Can anyone break that logic?

I'm going to come back fresh tomorrow, but I think that confirms the optimal amount of people tonight. Additionally, I think it gives us the highest chance at confirming additional players tomorrow and the night after. If possible, we want Elbirn and Flames targeting separate people, but we also want their targets to be fairly unknown to prevent them from being killed/played around.

Also, while typing this I realized RBD claimed his action had the strongman modifier which makes it even more likely it's not the kill. If he was a strongman kill then there is literally no point to any of the protective roles in the thread except maybe stopping a vig shot.

[Jingle]

Wait a minute. Yakko targets bodyguard, no one else does. That means busdriver can randomize between the other investigatives.

If we get a guilty we claim it and let KJ predict it as the nightkill in order to prove his role.

Okay, now does anyone see problems with my reasoning? I'll make a better action tree post when I'm off work.

[Jingle]

Anyone protecting us is effectively stripping us of the "weak" modifier, so we're not actually confirming the tracker. Who's actually getting confirmed in this plan?

What? Doesn't weak ignore protections? Like suicidal does?

[Jingle]

Seriously, ask the mod. Also ask if you're the type of weak that dies to millers.

[Jingle]

No. Go read the rules

I don't understand how 569 makes sense.

[Jingle]

Give me three hours, please, if someone hasn't hammered

[Jingle]

Kthx, hit in {lincler, claims that don't match}.

BG, hit heartless.

Heartless, claim your target if you can. If you die and bg doesn't then likely you targeted scum. If you don't claim I'm going to assume tracker. Tracker, target outside of kthx's targets and heartless's target.

Jk no action tonight. Bus driver, random between kthx tracker and heartless. That should stop rb nonsense wrt heartless.

[Jingle]

Scratch the tracker bit. Target whoever you want.

Aristophanes, target rbd.

[Jingle]

Save it for tomorrow. If you need to use it tonight, shoot me. After tonight we'll have a drastically reduced lynch pool hopefully. And you can murder death kill one of the people in that pool.

Tin foil theory in case I get shot tonight:

Scum probably has a Rolecop and a Roleblocker. Probably something else that's slight utility, but for the life of me I can't think of what makes sense.

Roleblocker is probably x-shot and I think it's Mainez. If Mainez isn't scum at least one of the claimed protective roles is. It's not heartless.


My thoughts on where we are:

Kthx and flames are town due to the lack of investigation in the town. Heartless, Elbirn, and RBD are also solid town off of both play and claims. RIP and d3x get the benefit of being bodyguards to keep them out of the lynch pool tomorrow, reevaluate them on D3, as does Mainez and his JK claim. That leaves a lynch pool of {me, KJ, Arist, lufan} for tomorrow, so KJ should choose one of those.

Aristophanes needs to vanilla-ize RBD tonight. If possible, he should confirm whether his target will get a PM with kiwi and claim that BEFORE RBD says anything.

I'm on the fence about using my ability because it's possible it could help town. I'm okay with not acting tonight though, and there's a better than even chance me never acting is in our best interests.

If we get a guilty, we hold onto it one night for KJ to predict it, confirming his role.

ACTIONS TONIGHT:

Aristophanes- Vanilla-ize Rainbowdash
Jingle- Nothing.
Flames682- Track any player. Any result visiting RBD is scum. Any result contrary to this list is scum.
Heartless- Protect Flames (Or another player if you claim it, but please do so quickly)
Elbirn- Investigate (I'd prefer it to be in the claims you think don't match up, but whoever works, I suppose. The claims that make a ton of sense are bad options.)
Killerjester- Predict one of {Jingle, Aristophanes, Lufan}
Kthxbye- Investigate within {aristophanes, Jingle, Kthx, yakko, mainez, RIP}
lufan131- No action OR Kill Jingle.
RIP- Protect Heartless
d3x- Protect randomly between {Heartless, Kthxbye, Flames} to discourage scumkills there.
Rainbowdash- No action.
Mainez- No action.


If anyone sees a problem with my suggested activities, then speak up now.

[Jingle]

Day 1 - VC 1.8

Jingle

-

Flames682,

RIP

-

Kthxbye

Killerjester

-

Lufan131

-

Jingle, RIP, Mainez, Aristophanes

Aristophanes

-

hi im Yakko

-

Lufan131, d3x, Heartless, Killerjester, hi im Yakko, Elbirn

With 13 Players it take 7 to Lynch. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2015-05-11 08:13:10)

Not Voting:

Rainbowdash

Sorry... been busy with some exams...

VC updated. Yakko is L-1. I intend to hammer once Heartless has responded.

[Jingle]

VOTE: yakko

I'll see ya'll in the morning.

[Jingle]

It doesn't matter. You have discretion under the plan to cop whoever you want.

Kthx, do not cop mainez, just so we don't overlap. I'd prefer RIP personally, as it sets some concerns to rest, but I'm not super worried about it. Just someone else from the list.

[Jingle]

Also, if yakko isn't trolling us with that watcher claim, then my spec on investigatives is wrong and Kthx and flames aren't cleared.

someone voted me for being "op". Why did you vote me rbd? It seems like if i woulda claimed just watcher I would hace been lynched anyways. Meh.

FTR, no. You would have been a suspect, sure. But you never lynch a watcher claim D1. NEVER.

[Jingle]

Flavor cop. It'll tell us your flavor, not town/scum

That'll tell us if you're telling the truth about being Linkler. If you aren't, you're scum. If you are, there's a good chance you're realclaiming. Especially because Abradolf doesn't really fit with a Dark Coalition.

[Jingle]

Given how flavor heavy the game appears and that the scum flavor seems so significant, flavor cop is slightly better than real cop.

[Jingle]

No more claims until I get a minute.

[Jingle]

Aristophanes- Vanilla-ize Rainbowdash
Jingle- Nothing.
Flames682- Track any player. Any result visiting RBD is scum. Any result contrary to this list is scum.

Heartless- Protect Flames (Or another player if you claim it, but please do so quickly)

Elbirn- Investigate (I'd prefer it to be in the claims you think don't match up, but whoever works, I suppose. The claims that make a ton of sense are bad options.)
Killerjester- Predict one of {Jingle, Aristophanes, Lufan}
Kthxbye- Investigate within {aristophanes, Jingle, Kthx, yakko, mainez, RIP}
lufan131- No action OR Kill Jingle.

RIP- Protect Heartless

d3x- Protect randomly between {Heartless, Kthxbye, Flames} to discourage scumkills there.
Rainbowdash- No action.
Mainez- No action.

I'd like lufan, rbd and mainez to say that they indeed did nothing. I'd also like RBD to say if he got vanilla-ized. In the future, this should happen first.

THEN I'd like d3x to claim his action. Then KJ. Then Kthx. Ideally in the future, Flames claims where kthx does today, and elbirn after that for any phase where they're alive.

[Jingle]

Occam's razor does suggest that, although tonight you shouldn't claim your target beforehand in case there's a scum roleblocker.

[Jingle]

I'm presumably negative utility. I agree with vanillaizing me.

D3x, you're up.

[Jingle]

Unvote please. I want discussion for a little bit.

[Jingle]

d3x- Protect randomly between {Heartless, Kthxbye, Flames} to discourage scumkills there.

I was hoping to draw the Scumshot based on the pool. With a Doc and 2 Investigative Roles in the mix, I should've been shot. I figured that the only way Scum wouldn't try me is if 1-2 Scum were in that pile. For that reason, I didn't do anything Last Night. Scum didn't go after me hoping to hit 1/3 of our most powerful Investigative/Protective Roles, thus there has to be Scum in that pile. Further, I don't believe either half of Heartless is terribad enough to set up and then confirm their target, just to say fuck it and Protect someone else. All of this only reinforces Flames Scum.

I can't stick around any longer tonight, I ended up going to the hospital for visits. I should be able to get back on tomorrow at some point.

Vote:Flames

Actually that makes a lot of sense, and tonight you should randomize between the strongest town PRs and your biggest scumread.

But more to the point, you're the other way I can see Flames being town. If you're scum and you swapped places with Heartless's target that's a pretty solid use of your power. It also explains why scum didn't target you, because they knew you wouldn't be targeting someone they wanted to die anyway.

Because of that, I suggest not lynching Flames today. If we don't lynch him then he has to give a result tomorrow as well, as do you. If you're town, your results will obviously be helpful. If you're not your results will still give us information to analyze. Either way, we can only get added information from letting the two of you live. And that's not even considering the chance that you or Flames eats the NK tonight, given that you're both strong roles and scum has to risk losing a player in keeping whichever of you is town alive. Not to mention that at least flames is limited scum utility at this point, given that we've already massclaimed.

KJ, who did you predict?

And for the record:

If we get a guilty, we hold onto it one night for KJ to predict it, confirming his role.

We shouldn't abandon this plan unless we have a second guilty. In which case we lynch whichever guilty has the weaker role. Once KJ has named his prediction, Kthx should say his target and result.


As an aside, Elbirn is mod-confirmed level town to me at this point. There was no reason for scum to shoot the bodyguard, especially when he was under a fair amount of suspicion. That the mod accidentally put El in the dead players list telling me he was the original nightkill only adds to this.

[Jingle]

I chose Mainez

VOTE: Mainez

Flames can die tomorrow or lufan can shoot him I don't really care which.

What? Why?

Kthx, results?

[Jingle]

Ok.

And KJ getting his ability means we know what it is. I don't really see it being incredibly powerful for scum because in that case one of his buddies just fakes a guilty and he lies about who he predicted. If we know what it is, then we can figure out his alignment based on the role itself and how he uses it. This is like D1 shit, RDB, and you know better.

If it's a high scum utility role, there's just too much incentive for scum to fake a guilty, and Flames is noticeably not doing that. In addition to the possibility that he could be lying about who he guesses if he's scum and yeah, I want to figure out what it is.

I'd like to know what your reasoning on lufan and aristophanes is, cause I frankly don't see it.

As for the fact that I basically decided the actions on my own, I asked for input, multiple times, and no one cooperated.

As far as I see, strong townreads are RBS, d3x, Elbirn, and kthx and we're looking for scum in the rest. The only way d3x can possibly be scum is if kthx is, or if Rick is somehow on the scumteam of the "Dark Coalition." I doubt that.

My first instinct is to leave lufan's shot again. He's obviously not getting NKed if town and we have at least a day before LYLO, so... The longer a vig shot lasts the more accurate it is. I agree that mainez should target tonight within the likely scumkills. IMO, it's more useful to get a conftown here or prevent a kill than aiming for a WIFOM-y guilty with a RB. With that said, RBD, d3x, El and kthx are the most likely. I see absolutely 0 chance that kthx is scum with flames scum. There's no reason for scum to have two investigations and there's not enough investigative power anyway.

I'm fine with getting vanilla-ized.

Is there anyone else we have to figure out?

[Jingle]

I'd really much rather he die than someone I'm sure is town or someone who can confirm other people as town, especially since vig is negative utility in the first place.

Also, he claimed 1 shot bp, so unless something really wonky happened, he's not in danger tonight.

[Jingle]

I'm not saying that he shouldn't use it, but that he should wait one more day. It's simple math. Tonight, there will be 9 players. Tomorrow night, barring shenanigans, there will be 7 players. 2/9 is less likely than 2/7. Unless you'd like to dispute that?

The thing is that I don't see lufan as a likely nightkill choice. One of the players who is actually confirmed as town, El or d3x, would be more likely. Hell, RBD is an actual universal townread. From a nightkill utility stance, you or Mainez makes more sense. Why would you as scum target lufan tonight?

The LYLO pattern bit is true regardless of when he takes the shot. If we leave it a day until all of the other x-shots are accounted for, then he isn't removing other power from the town. He's more likely to hit scum. There's very little risk associated.

[Jingle]

Assuming you get vanilla iced and Mainez uses his jail shot the only effective power we have left is d3x's self-bus, lufan's vig, my dreaming, and Elbirn's Morty-cop (which is useless if Flames flips Morty). In terms of roles that are immediately dangerous to scum yeah I can totally see them wanting to take out lufan before he shoots.

Mathwise, any "randomness penalties" (ie: if the vig shot was truly random, which it's not) will be compensated for by marginal gains in later lynchings. If you really want to get technical, a vig is actually more accurate than lynching - since town!lufan knows himself to be town.

Personally I think he should shoot you or Mainez.

Randomness penalties is a blatant lie about what I was saying. I never once insinuated that his target was going to be truly random, but the math reduces just fine.

Using the vig on the same night as the 1-shot JK only adds to the potential mystery in actions. I'd prefer that they act on different nights, and it's fucking obvious that Main is acting tonight.

For example, say they both act, and one person dies. We now have the question of did scum kill the same player, or did the Jailkeep work? It completely negates the chance for Mainez to semi-confirm himself, which is kinda the whole point of him acting. It also ignores the fact that a successful protection from Main manages to put us back on the LYLO track making a vig shot antitown at best.

And the bit about vigs being more accurate is hilarious. They're totally less likely to hit themselves, fine. But they also provide much less in the way of information to be analyzed. There's no defense, or attack, or any thread content that can help link players together and reveal scumteams. Not in this game, but in others, they're much more likely to hit PR's than the lynch. The simple truth is that vigs are more likely to hit town than scum, and they're not worth fighting to save. The best use of a vig is as a hail mary shot after lynching on MYLO, and even then they're not the best option.

[Jingle]

Oh, and don't put Flames at L-1 yet to prevent selfhammering. Although that should be obvious.

[Jingle]

Biggest reasons for kthnx needing to be vigged tonight

Biggest reason for kthx not to get vigged tonight: no way in fuck the tracker and the one shot cop claims were both scum.

[Jingle]

What? Are we saying Scary Terry might be a realclaim? 'Cause I assumed that was a fakeclaim, given that Terry actively saves the protagonist's lives. And no, it makes perfect sense. El is a neighborizer, who can conditionally get a guilty on one player assuming it's not a red herring, which it could be. Heartless was a weak doc, which can get one guilty ever, with a setup with a miller (presumably kills the weak doc or there's no point) and a reflexive busdriver. There's a bunch of protectives with severe drawbacks. There's no way in hell we don't have some form of investigation at our disposal, and I don't buy weak doc and neighborizer as it.

Unless I'm secretly super protown which fits the flavor 0% then there's just not enough power claimed in town for Kthx to be scum, especially given role madness and scum probably having abilities themselves.

Now could you make towncases for Aristo and Lufan?

[Jingle]

What? Are we saying Scary Terry might be a realclaim? 'Cause I assumed that was a fakeclaim, given that Terry actively saves the protagonist's lives. And no, it makes perfect sense. El is a neighborizer, who can conditionally get a guilty on one player assuming it's not a red herring, which it could be. Heartless was a weak doc, which can get one guilty ever, with a setup with a miller (presumably kills the weak doc or there's no point) and a reflexive busdriver. There's a bunch of protectives with severe drawbacks. There's no way in hell we don't have some form of investigation at our disposal, and I don't buy weak doc and neighborizer as it.

Character sure works well as a tracker doesn't he? Also I think they spent half of the episode trying to kill the protagonists before being tricked into helping them. Do you think Flames specifically got a tracker fakeclaim or what?

Also weak doc is a VERY strong role if used right (trying to target town), and unless mod switched things up they wouldn't be killed by a miller. We have investigative roles. Weak Cop + Specific character cop. That is not too much weaker than normal, especially if scum isn't all that strong role wise. Isnt a Weak Cop + Character Cop + Role Cop (which is essentially a normal cop by your claim) way too strong?

What if Flames flips Scary Terry? Would you at least agree that it would mean that kthnx should be vigged then? What about him targeting the role that fits perfectly with flavor instead of a questionable one? How does Xenon Bloom even work as a role cop?

Even *if* somehow Flames flips some random non-Terry character, how does that actually make the role cop more likely to be town? Like I said that makes three strong town investigators, like I have said, scum has quite a bit to gain from a role cop. Likely me. Possibly others we don't know about - remember that we already have a few connected roles.

Now could you make towncases for Aristo and Lufan?

Aristo is being locked down and given my role would have to be hurting scum to have made that move last night. I am more than fine calling him prob-town for that move. Whats the worst case? Scum eliminates my power and your power with their role?

Lufan is a vig, which is why he is killing kthnx tonight to prove that and confirm himself to be town. Scum wont have a vig. I have seen that once, in a very large game.

Preface here, I'm very drunk.

In my experience good mods give fake claims that fit flavor, so no, I dont think that's unlikely.

Kiwis already proven to mod by the wiki and the wiki says that sometimes weak dies on miller targets.

And no. 1 shot cop and weak cop is perfectly fine in a role madness mini. El's role wasn't a cop, before scum chose not to claim Morty. Balance wise it was neutral utility.

Your logic on aristo is bs given that not doing exactly what he did was scumclaiming. I can agree that luf is not groupscum if two people die, but I'm not cool with saying he's outright town already. I agree he's not the lynch today, but neither is main.

And no. I'm solid balance wise that there's no fucking way that k and flames are both scum.

[Jingle]

WhAt? Ambiguous roles dont mean he can't be town. They mean that he's not as powerful as a full cop. I don't want him shot because he's town. Simple as that.

[Jingle]

No a fan of aris's disappearing act either.

[Jingle]

Aristophanes:	vanillaice-r	[Scroopy Nooples]
Jingle:	visitor (unspecified neg utility?)	[Jerry]
Flames682:	tracker	[Scary Terry]
Heartless:	odd-night weak doc	[Beth]
Elbirn:	neighborizer (morty cop)	[Jessica]
Killerjester:	active dreamer (1x something)	[Goldenfold]
Kthxbye:	1x name cop	[Xenon Bloom]
lufan131:	1x bulletproof vig	[Snuffles/Snowball]
RIP:	miller bodyguard	[Lincler]
d3x:	self-targeting busdriver	[Rick]
Rainbowdash:	????? (unstoppable + scumtrolled)	[Meeseeks]
hi im Yakko:	motion detector	[Leonard]
Mainez:	1x jailkeeper	[Summer]

Terry is the only one who fits for a scumyeam. Bloom is literally ricks business partner, and there's nothing dark coalitiony about him. Tell me again how beth and summer are scum flavors, and I'll tell you exactly where your logic died.

As for xenon's flavor fitting flavorcop, that's a decent question for kthx. But the simple fact is that flames flipping scum clears kthx in my eyes. And I don't think you can make an argument to break that.

As Far as checking d3x, it wasn't the worst choice. Rick doesn't make sense as flavor for a dark coalition, meaning town, and the other investigatives which d3x was pointed at are high priority clears. Imagine d3x hitting flames. We might've have had a guilty and a living weak doc.

[Jingle]

Again: Yes or No - If Flames flips Terry that means kthnx needs to be vigged because it means that there is no town utility to have a role cop.

I don't think I am ever going to see kthnx as town, and he is probably going to be dead one way or another by the end of the game. I just want him to die and prove lufan as town all at the same time. Also d3x check was the worst possible check except for me, unless you are now trying to argue that characters have no bearing on alignment, because who else could possibly have been a self-targeting bus driver than Rick? Target Aristo, target Mainz, target KJ, heck even targeting Flames makes more sense. He went with what was probably about the worst move he could make, is not in the least bit "cleared" so yes, I want him dead and will probably be voting him out the gate tomorrow and never moving my vote if I have the chance.

"Not enough investigate power" is just a cop out. Weak cop - great role. Morty cop - well there is apparently another cop for a specific mafia member. JK - that becomes almost an investigator when there are lower number. Motion detector - that's an investigator. Are we really going to have a fifth role that is really strong like that? Doesn't it make sense for scum to have a role cop instead of town have a specific role cop and a role cop?

I would actually like you to name some things he did that would possibly suggest he is town. Because even if I wanted to I would be hard pressed to actually make anything that resembles a decent town case on him. He is at best liability town due to his N1 action.

@lufan - If Flames flips the character Scary Terry you are shooting kthnx tonight to prove your role. If there is somehow a hammer without us having figured it out entirely for if he flips something else - you are still shooting kthnx tonight.

No.

Guesses as to who could be a self targeting busdriver except for rick: A Zigerion, Evil Rick, Evil Morty, etc. Frankly there is a surprising lack of players in the game who don't make sense as a busdriver or redirector of some kind, especially ones who fit the scumteam.

For balance and role complexity reasons, there can't be multiples of those in the game, but holy shit does having d3x cleared mean a lot. It means to me that scum doesn't have busdriver roles. And hell yes does it mean that d3x is cleared, unless you'd like to make an argument for flavor to make Rick "Dark Coalition". As for roles not fitting flavor: NOT ALL OF THE ROLES FIT THEIR FLAVOR PERFECTLY.

Furthermore, targeting d3x had the potential to confirm d's action AND someone else as town. It wasn't a bad choice. It wasn't the choice I would've made, but this "Worst choice he could've possibly made" bullshit is both damaging and insulting.

And no, 1-shot jk is not balanced as an investigative role. It's balanced as part of a missing kill. Because it should always get used early in order to ensure it actually gets used. The reason I didn't want it used last night was because Heartless had an odd night role and I thought that they'd be alive today to get protected. Motion detector is like, the weakest investigative in the world in role madness. It means absofuckinglutely nothing, and as far as I can tell the only purpose of it is to confirm that scum do target you, which you'll not is useless information. Morty cop wasn't gonna balance as a full investigation, because it gives a result of "maybe scum" on one person in the game. You'll recognize that as not incredibly powerful. And terry being reasonable as scum or town? It's like a fucking godfather for scum. The investigative side of things seems perfectly fine to me.

Kthx is town on balance concerns. Period. Insults to his ability are not helpful, and even if he is as you say a liability, then he still doesn't get lynched because he's a fucking town player. Policy lynching an innocent child is fucking retarded, and this is pretty close.

Lufan, you shoot kthx tonight and I'll lead a wagon on you for claiming SK.

Kthx, shut up. RBD is town. Also, if anyone didn't realclaim, do so now or I will fucking policy lynch you. Don't test me. I have 0 qualms with policy lynching over this in LYLO.

The remaining scum is in Mainez/Aristo/KJ with me being almost certain on Mainez. Given main is using his only claimed shot tonight, he'd be my choice for vig if it absolutely has to happen.

Quick question because I just realized it wasn't said explicitly: RBD, did you receive a PM notifying you you were vanilla? If you did not, would you ask the mod for an updated role PM by PM? If he gives you one and it's not changed, Aristo is confscum and everyone else should ask the same question.

And fuck ending the day now. We have a full dayphase, and we're using it.

[Jingle]

Are you being willfully dense?

Sure Rick could be scum with Morty. But how the fuck is rick and Morty a dark coalition? Do you even read your posts? More to The point, how would summer be scum? Snowball? Scroopy fucking nooples? The argument that flavor cop is useless to town is born out of the stupidest fucking line of thought in the world.

I still don't think that luf should shoot tonight. There's too much reason not to. If kthx is telling the truth, there's too much benefit to just kill him tonight. If he's not he doesn't live long enough to be a problem. If either Main or lufan is scum shit can get messed up letting them act on the same night.

If luf absolutely has to shoot, he shoots out of me, kj, main, and aristo. Kthx lives till tomorrow.

Rbd is being retarded town. El is off the table for good. Lufan proves himself tomorrow. D3x cannot be scum unless kthx is. And kthx is town.

We've caught scum. We have mislynches to spare. Don't fucking Vig the cop.

[Jingle]

For those paying attention at home, that gives us at least 4 conftown for not shooting. If main hits a kill attempt, we've got 9 people with 5 conftown and we POE the game. Because we'll have 2 mislynches to spare and 2 townies in the lynch pool. If he doesn't we can get back on track by letting lufan kill someone.

And no, Kthx is not counted in the conftown there. We've got RBD, El, lufan can conf-not-group-scum himself tomorrow night, D3x, and Main after Kthx targets him. Then we can lynch me tomorrow, cause game is broke by having 2 scum in 4 people, one of which is effectively a cop, so someone scum definitely has to kill.

Argue against that logic, or go STFU. We can write this off as another setup that got broken by Jingle.

[Jingle]

How do you know how flavor works in this game? What if mod literally just made a few random names and made them scum "because" and then built flavor around it. Its been done before. How is Summer a JK? How is Xenon a role cop? How is Jessica a neighborizer? How is Lenord a motion detector? How is Scroopy a VT creator? Not everything makes sense flavor wise.

And how is the flavor built around Rick at all? WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE MULTIPLE ROLES THAT REFERENCE FLAVOR? Why is there so much effort going into roles like yours that do match the flavor? Enough makes sense flavor wise for it to be something that matters to the game.

Now I'm done arguing with you, because I really don't feel like beating my head against a wall and I can foresee getting pretty inventive when I insult you.

[Jingle]

Do you really think we have four town aligned investigative roles (motion detector, weak doc, morty cop and role cop)?

Fuck yeah. If there's a possible godfather to the flavorcop (Flames), a cop with only a single possible guilty and even then not a hard one, a motion detector which is not a fucking investigative and a weak doc? That makes all the sense, especially with a fucking busdriver to throw a wrench into the mix and a miller that probably kills the doc. Not to mention whatever I am, a scum whatever that goes through you, and a goddamn vanilla-izer. Aristo is obviously in order to compensate for town power, because why the fuck else would there be a vanilla-izer? I'm thinking something along the lines of a roleblocker to go along with the tracker. Roleblocker probably acts through you, so we probably don't have to worry about that anymore.

Alternatively, why are there so goddamn many ways to fuck with investigation if the only real one in the town is Heartless? Why d3x at all? Are we seriously entertaining a scenario where the only cop in the setup can get a fake guilty because of a town player's action?

[Jingle]

Also, since it's public information now, mod should be able to answer:

@mod: Hypothetically, if Heartless targets RIP, what happens?

[Jingle]

Plus if you were the biggest threat to scum... wouldn't you have been dead no matter what? Like a one shot cop is still a one shot cop... why would scum let you get away with that if that was your fear in the end?

I just think you are trying to do anything to stay alive another night here. Either you are town who lied about their role and misused it, or are scum. Either way its a great vig shot.

Seriously? Are you ever going to fucking respond to one of my posts?

lufan, just fucking shoot me. The game is solved and I still don't trust you fuckers to get it right. I want to go watch this clusterfuck unfold from the deadthread.

[Jingle]

For those paying attention at home, that gives us at least 4 conftown for not shooting. If main hits a kill attempt, we've got 9 people with 5 conftown and we POE the game. Because we'll have 2 mislynches to spare and 2 townies in the lynch pool. If he doesn't we can get back on track by letting lufan kill someone.

And no, Kthx is not counted in the conftown there. We've got RBD, El, lufan can conf-not-group-scum himself tomorrow night, D3x, and Main after Kthx targets him. Then we can lynch me tomorrow, cause game is broke by having 2 scum in 4 people, one of which is effectively a cop, so someone scum definitely has to kill.

Argue against that logic, or go STFU. We can write this off as another setup that got broken by Jingle.

All I gotta say.

Kthx hit main tonight.

VOTE: flames

I'm done talking to people who won't listen. Flames is L-1.

[Jingle]

Also d3x, given that you're confirmed, hit somewhere in the lynch pool. That way you're functionally bp.

[Jingle]

Post 723 holds as night actions. Phone now. More after work if not yet hammered. Luan breaking from vig target wrecks other actions. Just ignore jingle who is now just playing antitown with that vote

Fuck that noise, you're playing antitown by IGNORING A FUCKING BREAKING STRATEGY.

Lufan, vig me. Leave kthx alone to confirm someone as town.

[Jingle]

Post 723 holds as night actions. Phone now. More after work if not yet hammered. Luan breaking from vig target wrecks other actions. Just ignore jingle who is now just playing antitown with that vote

Fuck that noise, you're playing antitown by IGNORING A FUCKING BREAKING STRATEGY.

Lufan, vig me. Leave kthx alone to confirm someone as town.

Except only you think its game breaking. Every other player has said you are wrong about it, and I have broken games multiple times. You are wrong about it. Again. Even if somehow kthnx lives he is just getting autolynched tomorrow no matter what he claims as a result this is just hastening what you think is a useless process. Remember he said that he is targeting me (and has refused to say that any result would change opinions) so... he gets Meeseks and then gets lynched. Fairly non-productive.

Lets just for a moment humor you and say you are right. Why did scum try to kill a player that is not kthnx? They tried to kill Elbrin? So they are more concerned about a specific role cop than a role cop? Really?

Post 723 holds. Deviating from that is considered a scum claim. Its going to be kthnx + KJ/Aristo/Mainez. Once Aristo, Mainez and lufan all acknowledge this and what they are doing I will hammer.

You've supported that argument 0%. Link me to a single place where anyone has debunked anything about my strategy. It doesn't exist.

Kthx, target Mainez tonight.

Lets look at the possibilities.

Kthx is town-

1. He gets shot by scum. Awesome, and we no longer have to worry about his alignment.
2. He confirms mainez as town. Awesome, and the game is PoE able. And don't fucking say that Summer could be scum on a "Dark Coalition team". I will beat myself to death with a computer.
3. He confirms mainez as scum. Fucking amazing. We're down to one scum. We can even lynch kthx first to confirm the guilty.

Kthx is scum-

1. He gets fucking lynched tomorrow, and we have one scum remaining, with a vig shot left and a pile of conftown.

We play to our goddamn outs. WE WIN THIS GAME RIGHT NOW IF KTHX IS TOWN AND WE DON'T VIG HIM TONIGHT. WE DON'T LOSE ANY APPRECIABLE VALUE IF WE VIG HIM TONIGHT.

MAINEZ PLAY YOUR ROLE LIKE A DOC TONIGHT. STOP THE NIGHTKILL AND WE HAVE ANOTHER FUCKING LYNCH. TARGETING KTHX IS A SCUMCLAIM.

LUFAN, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS. TELL ME EXACTLY WHY MY SPEC IS WRONG OR DON'T SHOOT.

[Jingle]

We play to our goddamn outs. WE WIN THIS GAME RIGHT NOW IF KTHX IS TOWN AND WE DON'T VIG HIM TONIGHT. WE DON'T GAIN ANY APPRECIABLE VALUE IF WE VIG HIM TONIGHT.

MAINEZ PLAY YOUR ROLE LIKE A DOC TONIGHT. STOP THE NIGHTKILL AND WE HAVE ANOTHER FUCKING LYNCH. TARGETING KTHX IS A SCUMCLAIM.

LUFAN, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS. TELL ME EXACTLY WHY MY SPEC IS WRONG OR DON'T SHOOT.

FTFM

[Jingle]

;p how rude. I won't shoot if there's this much drama over it, anyway. I'm fine with no-action.

No. You are killing kthnx tonight to prove you are town. Jingle is the only one who is complaining and the rest of the game is telling him he is wrong. Volume does not equal correct. It actually usually equals wrong because there is so little logic behind it its all they have left.

@Jingle - I could absolutely care less what you are trying to push because there is SO MUCH that can go wrong. He could be a role cop and scum, that will just end in uselessness and wasted time. He could again refuse to do a remotely useful thing and just make a bad target, then he will just get lynched again wasting more time. He is scum and throws up a false guilty, that probably ends in a mislynch. He could be scum and put a guilty on a partner. He could be town and every role is exactly who they claimed so its a useless role. The slot is dead pony walking at this point. He is getting lynched today, vigged tonight, or lynched tomorrow.

Your entire logic is that he is town who has been lying about his role, using it poorly intentionally, will actually change that, and that scum decided to try and kill a specific character cop over a role cop.

Vote kthnx

Lets just do it this way instead.

@All - If you want kthnx vigged (which appears to be a clear majority), just vote this way instead until lufan actually makes his vig kill known to be him. That way lufan can just vig conf-scum Flames instead.

The only way kthnx should be allowed to live under any circumstances is if he is lynched immediately after claiming his result tomorrow, regardless of who it is on and what it is. Even then, money says its a useless result. To reiterate

If somehow kthnx isn't dead by the start of tomorrow he gets lynched immediately after claiming, NO MATTER WHAT he has a result

@d3x - Can you confirm that his "result" is correct even if you used your role?

NO. FUCK YOU. VOLUME DOESN'T EQUAL CORRECT? WELL HOW ABOUT YOU FUCKING SAY EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY PLAN. I'VE EXPLAINED MULTIPLE TIMES WHY MY PLAN IS BETTER THAN YOURS, AND THE SUMMATION OF YOUR REBUTTAL IS: "Nah, Kthx is scum." FUCKING SERIOUSLY, IF YOU HAD EVEN A SINGLE GOOD POINT TO REFUTE THE PLAN, YOU COULD HAVE SOME GROUND TO STAND ON. BUT YOU DON'T. YOU FUCKING DON'T. THERE IS NO FLAW IN MY PLAN, AND THE WORST CASE SCENARIO YOU JUST POSTED (HE'S A SCUM ROLE COP) IS FUCKING RETARDED. SERIOUSLY, WE'VE ALREADY CLAIMED. WHAT IS A SCUM ROLECOP GONNA FIND OUT, EXACTLY WHAT EVERYONE ALREADY SAID THEY WERE?

AND NO SHIT WE TAKE HIS RESULTS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. YOU'RE LEGITIMATELY JUST INSULTING OUR INTELLIGENCE HERE.

I CAN ONLY SEE ONE GODDAMN REASON FOR YOU TO BE THIS PIGHEADED. YOU'RE SCUM, KTHX IS TOWN, AND YOU'RE REALLY JUST HOPING YOUR CLAIM GOT YOU ENOUGH TOWNCRED TO COAST THE ENTIRE GAME. WELL FUCK YOU, CAUSE YOU'VE LOST ALL THE TOWNCRED YOU HAD. YOU'RE ACTIVELY TRYING TO STOP A BREAKING STRATEGY WITH NO LOGIC OR REASONING. I'M DONE. IF YOU'RE NOT SCUM, I'LL FUCKING VOTE MYSELF.


VOTE: RAINBOWDASH


To anyone who is a reasonable human being and actually wants to talk about why they think my plan is "bad", you can kindly fuck off because you're not in this game. Goodday.

[Jingle]

yeah, lets lynch town over conf scum....

how is it nobody else seeing this shit aside from the OTHER scummy person trying to dictate everyone's actions?

And fuck you too. My plan got us a fucking guilty. No one else seemed to want to weigh in, so I did my best and we've got a guilty on Flames because of it. What have you done? Huh? Fuck all, that's what. I've got a shitty role and I've been more important to the town than the goddamn cop.

Kthx, you'd better fucking listen this time and hit Mainez, or I will flip my shit.

[Jingle]

Looking at her claim while now not town-reading her also points to scum, not town. If you really look at it, all it is is a, 'If I'm tracked or watched to a NK, it wasn't my fault guys.'

Which is exactly why kthnx is scum. If he was town I would have been his N1 target if he actually believed this and the attack isn't just an OMGUS fueled one. What town, ever, has this type of a problem with claimed flavor and then decided to target a player who has flavor make sense? It sure makes sense for scum to ignore these thoughts though, because it leaves options open.

@kthnx - So was my move to actually say nothing and hope that there was no town role that could produce a false result on me?

Okay, after calming down a bit, I'm ready to say that I'm not sold on RBD scum. He still seems likely as town for me.

I too noticed that it's a safe claim for scum. It's got the bonus of both being likely to live to the endgame and a miller on tracker results. Especially with Flames being scum, it's a miller that's actually a red herring claim, which is pretty gross. On the other hand, now that he's been vanilla-ized he's likely to die sooner than later if he's town, so I feel comfortable leaving him for the moment. My biggest concern there now is his protection of Aristo. If Aristo flips scum, RBD is 80% scum. If he flips anything other than vanilla-izer, RBD is 100% scum. No doubt in my mind here.

Lufan don't target kthx, mainez, or elbirn. d3x is definitely using his ability tonight on someone he finds scummy, so you can target him if you really want.

kthx, seriously. Clear Mainez tonight. Even if RBD is scum, a mainez clear makes this game almost unloseable.

d3x, pretend you're a vig. You need to be bp. Target someone who won't get nightkilled ever.

VOTE: Flames

L-1 again.

[Jingle]

Are you saying you don't find anything of interest the last few pages?

What are your thoughts on my proposed plan and RBD's?

[Jingle]

I'm vanilla now, yes.

And I targetted kthx last night.

VOTE: kthx

The opposite of my arguments yesterday is completely true.

There is no way in fuck I see town having a tracker and a role cop and a weak doctor and a morty neighborizer with a presumptive guilty in the Role PM. And the "I got Rick" result is obviously carnival of insanity bullshit. There's no way in fuck a re director would be balanced with a busdriver in the setup. Occam's razor tells me lufan is an SK who shot RIP.

I see two possibilities here. Either my action happened before I was made vanilla in which case I was a vote thief, or kthx is full of shit. I honestly don't care which.

[Jingle]

I did jail KJ.

Jingle, are you seriously going to argue no scum redirector because town had one? Were you not in UDesign?

Yes, the Upick is totally the same as a game designed from scratch. That's reasonable. Except that no sane mod puts multiple busdrivers in the same setup when they don't have to. That's a night action resolution nightmare waiting to happen. UDesign suffered from us giving in batshit roles.

And let's just rewind for a minute and look at this chain of events again. Lufan claims to have killed RBD. RBD didn't die. You claim not to have protected either of them.

I see a few options:

There's an SK. It explains Heartless dying, without the need for a second Busdriver.

There's this redirector. Which means that the kill from lufan is still unaccounted for, because there's no way in fuck a scum busdriver doesn't turn the vig into a scum vig.

I think the first is by far the more likely. In that case, lufan is probably the SK, but don't worry, luf, that means you're definitely off the lynch table today.

If kthx is town, Titus is town. No way in fuck did scum target themselves for the kill last night. I guess luf could've shot Titus, while scum No Killed, but that's super unlikely. That means that we don't lynch Titus before kthx.

kthx is still probably scum by reason of balance and setup.

I'm trying to work my head around KJ being a scum kill. That doesn't seem likely. Maybe if there's a scumbusdriver, they were shooting at kj to hit someone else because he'd be an unlikely protection? I dunno, it seems likely he made the nightkill.

Oh, shit. I just realized what I'd have done as a scum busdriver with kthx being town. I'd have faked a guilty or an innocent. Think about it, if kthx were to get a scum result on Titus, we'd be lynching either kthx or Titus. When whichever one flipped town, we'd then be lynching the other. It's fucking perfect. That means that scum put kthx on themselves, and d3x targeted scum. So if Titus/kthx/lufan is all town, then RBD has to be scum. IF this busdriver exists, it's RBD/KJ and one of {Aristophanes/Elbirn}

Elbirn is town. RBD/KJ/Aristophanes? Does that make sense? The scum didn't get to kill last night, because KJ tried and failed. RBD is probably the busdriver. Aristophanes is realclaiming.

UNVOTE:

Fuck. Process of elimination.

Lufan, if you're an SK, claim now. Town can't lynch you ever if you are, and our wincons match at this point.

El is town. I'm town. Titus is conditionally town. If lufan claims SK, he's off the lynch table and that means we have 3 scum in {RBD/KTXH/KJ/ARISTO}.

[Jingle]

Just occurred to me, swap KJ with Lufan. If Lufan shoots KJ, Lufan commits seppuku without my block. It would be a protection measure.

Lufan claimed BP on the night he shot.

[Jingle]

Titus, El, unvote me please, we're in MYLO, and I don't want to lose to a fucking quickhammer.

Jingle is scum most likely. No serial killer. Scum have redirect.

Based on NAR we conclude either a)scum redirect Lufan directly onto KJ away from RBD

OR

KJ was bussed with Lufan or RBD.

Either scenario matches with the extra heartless death.

Not inclined to lynch Lufan, kthx.

Jingle, why did you vote steal kthx? Is the loss of the vote temporary or permanent.

I targeted kthx because I thought he was scum based on the flames flip, and I thought that if I had a negative utility ability as was implied by flavor, using it on scum would have been the best option. There was the chance I was a RB or something along those lines, that could actually be useful.

I don't even know for sure that my action was actually resolved on kthx. There's a possibility there's a scum vote thief and my ability was interrupted by the vanilla-izer, which you're fully discounting. Given that I recieved a PM saying I'm vanilla now, and NAR, I'm gonna guess that the only reason this game managed to continue with my role not telling me all of the relevant information about it is that I didn't actually get to use it.

In which case, kthx is town. Fuck. So kthx has to be town. Elbirn is town. Titus is town if kthx didn't get redirected.

That's a thought, kthx redirected onto someone to make his claim seem like bullshit. Then RB Titus gets to block lufan and we still have no goddamn clue who d3 targeted. Fuck, can anyone see a reason that doesn't make sense?

Lufan is probs town. It'd be an incredibly ballsy move to claim vig that early as scum.

That leaves me with KJ/Aristo/{Titus,RBD}

I think Titus is probably town, but it looks like the common factor in all of the PoE trails is KJ. And no one is pushing him despite the universal conclusion that he's scum, which is telling.

[Jingle]

For the record I hate to do this but there is a strong possiblity of me having to replace out. I'm in the process of being evicted, basically, and while I'm couchsurfing at my paw's idk how internet access is going to work, plus the internet not really being a top priority when I'm trying to find an apartment. Yeahh. Sorry. We'll see what happens?

No worries, man. RL is more important than mafia. I hope everything works out well for you, but I completely understand if you have to replace out for that kind of reason. Good luck on the apartment hunt!

[Jingle]

It's a sub-optimal play to try and get two kills?

Remember, scum have to try and shoot who is NOT being swapped with the bus driver. Shooting obvious town isn't going to work.

Wait, why? Why do they have to try to shoot around the conftown busdriver? Hitting d3x is actually optimal for scum here.

[Jingle]

Except the rolecop inno on him. There was 0% chance I was letting him get lynched before kthx.

[Jingle]

I think we both know I'm aggressive enough to shout that particular lynch down, Titus. And I'll refer you to the gigantic fucking wall war I had with RBD yesterday about why d3x was town.

I find it much more likely I'm the designated myslynch in LYLO and kj was the one making the scumkill than that kj was an innocent bystander. He was a much easier mislynch for scum if nothing else, so he shouldn't have been the shot regardless. I could see you, to stop the new perspective from shaking up the game. I could see El, he's been functionally conftown since D1. Hell, kthx makes a modicum of sense if scum was worried about a guilty. But KJ being shot is just stupid. That would be scum removing outs from their own lynchpool.

[Jingle]

I don't even know for sure that my action was actually resolved on kthx. There's a possibility there's a scum vote thief and my ability was interrupted by the vanilla-izer, which you're fully discounting. Given that I recieved a PM saying I'm vanilla now, and NAR, I'm gonna guess that the only reason this game managed to continue with my role not telling me all of the relevant information about it is that I didn't actually get to use it.

I sent Anti a PM about this, btw. If there's a mod error, we'll know soon enough.

Right. I was shot by scum Jingle. D3x bussed himself. So having scum redirect a kill onto me is worthless.

Having Lucian committed seppuku is not helpful to if a kill goes wild, she would be lynched.

They want to avoid protown Elbrin due to the fact d3x will switch with him and funny business can also be blamed on him from D2.

That leaves KJ and kthx as choices for the second shot. Kthx can match flavor and s weak. KJ does Lord knows what else. Given the number of players alive, her prediction is very likely to happen.

What? Luf was BP last night by claim, and unkillable, so...

Shooting Elbrin is best case scenario. Shooting d3x is acceptable. Getting rid of the chance of hitting conftown to avoid hitting a difficult mislynch is probably the stupidest scumplan I've ever heard.

KJ and Kthx were both wide open on the lynch table yesterday. Neither of them was a legitimate kill choice, unless scum was super worried about the 1v1 that would happen if kthx hit them. Given that he was claimed targeting you, that doesn't seem likely.

EVERYONE UNVOTE. THIS IS MYLO.

Dumbasses.

[Jingle]

Jingle/Aristo/myself all are pretty much in a scenario where kthnx and KJ have to be scum, those two are on the other side.

Nice try, but no. KJ is the only one I'm even somewhat sure on atm. You and Aristo could still easily be scum.

[Jingle]

Uhhhh. No. The argument for a scum redirector is pretty strong, and the more I go over it, the more I believe it. The night one shenanigans basically prove it, and they also make your argument there complete and total crap. Hell, it falls apart if your scumteam has a RB and stopped the lufan kill that way. In which case KJ isn't scum (or at least didn't make the kill) and I'm barking up the wrong tree. The only two arguments against a scum redirector I can see at this point are Night actions being a bitch to work out and scum being able to functionally have 2 kills on 2 nights. Which I guess would be why we've got so many goddamn investigative and protective roles.

And if Anti comes back with confirmation that I'm right and kthx got votestolen by someone else, then he's conftown and you're argument is crap.

My current tinfoil theory is that KJ's action when he guesses right is a votesteal and he knew flames was gonna be the lynch yesterday because they faked a guilty on him.

[Jingle]

That makes sense.

Anti told me he couldn't answer the question about vanilla-izing stopping my power or being a mod error or what it actually did. Cause he's a dick.

So, Titus is town if kthx is town.
Elbrin is Town.
I'm town.
Lufan is town enough.

That leaves KJ, RBD, Aristophanes.

I'd be fine lynching one of them, tbh, but Elbrin's voice weighs more to me right now than yours. I'd prefer to lynch KJ. The only reason I'm not voting is because if I'm wrong about something, I'd like the extra chance to figure it out.

Is there a reason fypov that KJ isn't scum?

[Jingle]

Also, for the love of god people, unvote. We're in MYLO.

[Jingle]

If kthx is town, then kj is also town because kj scum means the scum bus driver did nothing and there is no explanation for why RBD is alive.[/b]

Unless scum made you target lufan, in which case kthx targeted you and they tried to kill you, which makes everything match.

@Jingle - Why are you ignoring the very likely scenario of kthnx simply having lied about his result?

I'm not. But the simple fact is that I was made vanilla, which means I CAN'T be the votethief. Unless someone else wants to change their claim, that means scum stole kthx's vote, and I really fucking doubt that they would've stolen one of their own's vote, especially if there was a chance this was LYLO.

It cant be me (Due to Aristo)

Aristo is a vanilla-izer, but if you were scum together, you weren't necessarily vanilla-ized. Hell, he might've only been one shot.

Also, if I am scum, Jingle and Pony must be scum for going along with the fakeclaim, yes?
Why, as scum, would I out my team if I fakeclaimed!?
That would be dumb as fuq

What? No, it's pretty obvious you're a vanilla-izer. That's an incredibly powerful role for scum. And I'm pretty sure Titus realizes that.

I'm still thinking KJ is probably scum, Titus. But I'm fine with lynching Aristo today to test the hypothesis.

[Jingle]

Just for the record with Aristo we are now at him trying to push:

Elbrin is a scum bus driver (RIP was killed directly N1)
Jingle is a scum vote stealer (so essentially there is an extra scum)
A no lynch is acceptable with a scum vote stealer in play

But have you considered that the scum is actually Heartless who had a role where they flipped town N1 with a role of their choice and they get to make unlimited nightkills each night and also become the mod whenever they want? I think that's obviously the correct answer and Equinox got roped into some cosmic joke.

Yeah, I'm not longer seeing RBD scum. My big concern was his huge frickin 180 on me, but the rest of his thoughts seem to be coming from the same headspace.

[Jingle]

Who says that's the order of actions? Also there is a hole in that one. Lets look at it this way

Elbrin is clear - Not him

Point.

Lufan is vig - Not him

Hmmm, probable. The only way I can see lufan's claim being fake is a Titus, lufan, kthx team.

Eliminate you from your stance
Titus is what happened to that kill - Not her

Hmmm. Unless Titus is scum, in which case no. I think she's town, but the possibility she's scum shouldn't be discounted in setup spec.

kthnx is role cop - Not him

Point. And more importantly, he probably didn't votesteal himself.

Aristo is VTizer - Not him

Point

Missing here is the possibility that you and Aristo are scum together, which I am finding increasingly unlikely. And you being the votethief in general, which kinda makes sense in a weird way.

El is conftown, Titus.

Apply actions which modify other actions before the actions they modify.

Thought...

@Mod- Does this setup follow NAR?

Yes.



Also: Aristophanes and Mainez have been prodded.

[Jingle]

I'm Jerry.

So, if there's a scum votethief, we're boned is what I'm seeing from the thread, so we should assume the votethief was me, and play to our outs.

I'd be willing to lynch aristo, but we should no lynch first. If Kthx is permavotestolen and town then we lose, because town will never have enough votes to make up a majority. If the day starts tomorrow and kthx has no vote, then he's confscum. If not, we at least don't have less information. We are losing a conftown over night (and yes, El is conftown) but the potential gain makes it worth it.

VOTE: No Lynch

[Jingle]

So we should check to see if I have two votes. Roger.

VOTE: No Lynch

Let's find out.

[Jingle]

On that note everypony who thinks that Elbrin is town should have kthnx as essentially confirmed scum, because that would mean that N1 scum tried to kill a specific character cop instead of the role cop claim.

Except that kthx was in the d3x pool and Elbrin wasn't.

I'm pretty convinced at this point that exactly one of KJ/RBD is scum, but Titus's reasoning seems sound.

[Jingle]

Okay so N1 we essentially then have one of

1) Scum directly killed RIP over Morty Cop and Role Cop (at least one of kthnx/Elbrin are scum)
2) Scum tried to kill Morty Cop instead of Role Cop, killed RIP (kthnx is scum)

Or scum were trying hard not to kill d3x and RIP to leave them as valid mislynch opportunities and they thought they were gonna kill Elbrin, leaving flames to eat a guilty lynch and discrediting kthx where possible. Which is actually pretty likely if you're scum.

As far as the concern about lynching KJ first, it makes sense from scum you if he's town. I'm now slightly interested in the Aristo lynch to see if he's gonna flip 2-shot. If he flipped 1-shot, you'd be confscum and KJ would be conftown (at least in my book) which would explain why you're so adamant to see him get lynched first. If he flips 2-shot, that at least adds credence to your (and my) claim and we can use the additional information to work out the actually difficult decision.

[Jingle]

The concern is that kthx, you, aristo is a possibility.
In which case I lose if we lynch kj today. Kthx and you both going hard after a kj lynch supports that.

And yeah, aristo claiming he had more shots than he did and "vanillaizing" a partner N1 is most certainly a possibility.

If he flips two shot, its something I have to worry less about.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Aristophanes.

VOTE: Aristophanes.

I suppose I can check for an extra vote here too.

[Jingle]

Completely unrelated AFAIK.

Titus, his reactions on d1 make him town. Its not what he claimed, but how.

[Jingle]

This game is slow. Can we do like mass rolename claim? I think that'd be fun.

Actually, no don't do that. Because reasons.

But if Morty could claim that'd be the tits.

This + the chain of posts following it is pretty obvious flavorfishing to be coming from scum. But it does show a likely need to see Morty.

UNVOTE:

Fuck this, I'm Jessica. My role is that I have two shots to target someone at night. If I target Morty,

Or someone who appears to be Morty

, they and I get a private thread. Basically equivalent to neighbors.

Italicized is important. I was thinking about holding that bit back, maybe I could do something with it, but hell with it, transparency. I take it to mean that either scum have some really legit method of fakeclaiming, or someone has a role that can disguise themselves as another person, or maybe alt universe evil-Morty is a role here.

This claim coming as early as it did only makes sense coming from scum to me if one of the other scum was given Morty as a fakeclaim, so that they know it won't ever be proven, and I don't see them coming to that use of the power that quickly. It's pretty farfetched. And finally, this game started early on in the TM games, and kiwi wasn't involved in them at all AFAIK. I doubt they influenced him in this game.

Added to that of the death of the obvmislynch RIP who got tracked to El, and he's confirmed town.

[Jingle]

Also, it's worth noting that there hasn't been a quickhammer. Meaning either kthx is scum or Aristo is. Or both, I suppose.

[Jingle]

Also, it's worth noting that there hasn't been a quickhammer. Meaning either kthx is scum or Aristo is. Or both, I suppose.

Actually, no.

It means either Kthx or someone on his wagon is scum.
And
That either myself or someone on my wagon is scum.

If there is a scum with a vote already on either or on both wagon, they would not have the numbers to quichlynch.
Alternately, if everyone on my wagon is town, as am I, then Kthnx is scum and thus they can't quicklynch.
(This all assuming you removed his vote but did not gain an extra one).

Think about the full picture Jingle.
That was just lazy.

No.

I'm town. Titus can only be scum if kthx is. One of you and kthx is scum. Could be both. One of kthx and RBD is scum too. I just didn't realize he was L-3.

If we had a mislynch to spare, I'd say we should hit kthx.

[Jingle]

I already fucking did. Jingle RBD Ari.

You never intended to bus. I am not voting kthx.

Okay, but reevaluate when Ari flips scum vanillaizer.

Tri bus is possible. NAR has not been resolved in your scenario. Jingle CANNOT act if Ari vanillaizer him.

Which is why I'm considering that there's someone else who is the votethief. The only way I am is if Anti mod-errord (completely understandable given it isn't actually his game) and won't confirm it because it confirms me.

I feel like I went over this.

Also, I'll be gone all of tomorrow for a concert in Portland, but I'll see ya'll on Friday.

[Jingle]

Thought...

@Mod- Does this setup follow NAR?

Yes.



Also: Aristophanes and Mainez have been prodded.

I'm not gonna point at the link to NAR that the mod said he was using, where NAR is defined. I promise.

[Jingle]

You're all wrong, the scumteam was me, Elbrin and Heartless. But heartless has a 1 shot quadruple kill and I'm an unlimited permanent votethief!

Also, RBD, if kthx is scum we just lost the game, so....

[Jingle]

Hey, so I was confscum on the last day. If I hadn't been lying D1, the game COULD NOT HAVE CONTINUED.

I'm just gonna admit that I was fucking terrified for the entire day that someone would realize that and you'd lynch me. It was actually the main reason I votestole kthx, apart from the plan when I saw my role PM to votesteal a scumbuddy.

[Jingle]

Lol what a horrible team.
How was jingle alive so late? Wow
We lost this game the moment I protected elbirn and died. Not sure if I was targeted or I stopped the kill with my death.
<MVP town.

Honestly we didn't want to kill you because we knew you were a mislynch waiting to happen. Frankly the worst thing town did this game was let me dictate actions on n1. The game wasn't broken by mass claim, but you let me make mass claim a force for scum.

[Jingle]

D3x was never gonna target you though. He was one of the people who were going to ignore me and do something else. So was RIP. I may be shit at reading alignments but I'm pretty good at reading people.

[Jingle]

RIP, just in case it hasn't clicked yet, this is a game of argument. Hence, charisma. You could have hacked the servers and looked at access to the scum PT and your correct reads still wouldn't have made you a good player. The simple fact of the matter is you were utterly incapable of convincing anyone of anything, which makes you the worst kind of VI. The player who is always wrong and yet convinces people of his POV is better than the player who is always right and can't argue for shit. I wanted you alive so that you would push my wagon. As long as you were the one pushing it, it would never have taken off.

And your behavior in the postgame lends further credence to the belief that you are just terrible at the game.

Call it quits, stop insulting people, and maybe you won't piss everyone in the game off to the point where none of them will play with you again. Lose gracefully. Work at improving your shortcomings. Realize you're not infallible. And maybe mature to the point where you're not a ten year old screaming obscenities into his X-Box mike.