Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[Cephrir]

Vote Kison

because this isn't a random vote.

[Cephrir]

1) No, it isn't.
2) At the beginning of Day 1, pretty much everything is random.
3) Well, that's true, it is.

[Cephrir]

She's serious!?

FoWTF: Karen

[/b]

[Cephrir]

I thought at first that his was newbie behavior, but continuing to defend the craplogic and rolling out more deserves an actual

FoS: Karen

.

[Cephrir]

Oh, and the OMGUS voting. Which will probably come again very soon.

[Cephrir]

Unvote

.

[Cephrir]

[devilsadvocate]That's true for any town player we lynch, and we are likely to lynch town today since most of the players aren't scum (I think). So why not lynch someone erratic in her voting who will never be helpful to the town? [/devilsadvocate]

[Cephrir]

I realize that offing an innocent is bad, but we have no guarantee than Karen is innocent, in fact, she's just as likely to be scum as any of us, and if we have to lynch someone it may as well be her.

[Cephrir]

I realize that offing an innocent is bad, but we have no guarantee than Karen is innocent, in fact, she's just as likely to be scum as any of us, and if we have to lynch someone it may as well be her.

I dont buy it...our first day lynch should not be this easy...you dont find some of the votes on here...well, strange?...weak excuse? and explanations that paint her has bad town, not scum?

I wouldn't say they're weak excuses, they're actually perfectly good excuses. We can't let Karen coast to endgame, she'd just kill us there. The fact that she hasn't been lynched already makes me think there's a good chance she's scum.

How ironic that this post is itself scummier than anything Karen's said all game. Getting pissed about the fact that there's a baseless bandwagon on you is NORMAL. I'd be pissed if too if I were Karen.

unvote, vote: Flyinghawk

Yeah, but there's a reason why Karen is being wagoned. You, as a somewhat experienced player, would not behave so erratically that you attract all those votes.

[Cephrir]

See my post at the top of the page? See the "[devilsadvocate]" tags? This whole argument has not actually my opinion, I'm just getting the different sides out there. If I actually wanted to lynch Karen, I would be

voting for her

.

[Cephrir]

I realize that offing an innocent is bad, but we have no guarantee than Karen is innocent, in fact, she's just as likely to be scum as any of us, and if we have to lynch someone it may as well be her.

I dont buy it...our first day lynch should not be this easy...you dont find some of the votes on here...well, strange?...weak excuse? and explanations that paint her has bad town, not scum?

I wouldn't say they're weak excuses, they're actually perfectly good excuses. We can't let Karen coast to endgame, she'd just kill us there. The fact that she hasn't been lynched already makes me think there's a good chance she's scum.

Unvote

Vote : Cephir

Are you _kidding_ me? It is page

six

, and you are more certain that Karen is scum because

she has not been lynched???

Personally, I am getting more of the frustrated townie vibes than pure scum vibes from her. But hey, let's go and lynch anyone who becomes frustrated.

Actually, since there are a lot of fairly new players in this game, I really am surprised there isn't a bigger wagon on her.

[Cephrir]

If you need a case on Karen, just read her posts.

[Cephrir]

You're not one to talk about being a newbie.

[Cephrir]

Karen, you don't seem to understand what people mean by a "random vote". It doesn't have to be truly random, people just pick someone from the list and vote them for a stupid and/or funny reason.

Also, you are not an alt. Alts of good players do not play like crap. Alts of bad players don't even play this badly. So stop.

Dybeck: How do you not see a case here?

CKD: If you wish we'd hung Karen 10 posts ago (as 174 seems to imply), why aren't you voting for her?

And finally,

FoS Green Day

for already stated reasons.

[Cephrir]

Alright, I thought that was what you meant. Just checking.

[Cephrir]

dybeck: I am currently not voting. There's a reason.

[Cephrir]

Dybeck, has it occured to you that maybe we see your point and don't agree?

I have to go with Sonicpulsar here: Karen is useless. I think she's slightly more likely scum than the average player in this game, and if she's town she won't be of any help anyway, plus the way she blunders about makes it impossible to read whether or not she's scum. She will continue to be unreadable if we let her survive because after we do it a few times, she will get a free pass and be able to coast along if she's scum because nobody pays attention to the massive tells that she exhibits every time she posts.

Vote: Karen

[Cephrir]

Karen isn't necessarily town, and for some reason quite a few people seem to forget that.

[Cephrir]

I thought she claimed "Townsperson", but maybe she meant that in the context of "town-aligned"...?

[Cephrir]

You're defending Karen so adamantly it's ridiculous. I think that either a) you're scum with Karen, and that's why you're defending her, or b) you're scum and are trying to pick up Karen as a "pet townie". Add this to the fact that you are the only one who sees your logic, and

Major FoS: dybeck

. If I could vote for two people, I'd be voting for you.

[Cephrir]

Firstly, you seem to have excluded all possibility that Karen is scum

Finally, someone gets it.

FoS: CKD

. All of your arguments are based on the assumption that Karen is a bad town player. There is no reason she can't be a bad scum player. There is also no reason why scum would NK her. Everything I wanted to say in this post has already been said by Twomz, Zoneace and Sonicpulsar. But I feel the need to say this anyway:

KAREN, CLAIM PLEASE.

[Cephrir]

Mod, could you fix my tags please?

MOD NOTE

: Fixed.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, weren't you one of the people BWing karen in the beginning of this day? correct me if im wrong but asking someone who you are SURE is scum to claim kinda makes it seem as though you are unsure she is scum because she COULD have a power role. In this type of game where we need to be lynching scum every game day without doubt we can't have such a doubt. As it has proven through the posts of several people who have asked Karen to claim, it is definetly not certain she is scum. Infact if she did have a power role, how inredibly unproductive to town would be to gambit yourself? All I am saying is we need to lynch with more convition, there are many people pushing wagons and we need to be careful as there are supposedly X mafia groups and we need to be sure who we are lynching. And karen, by all means, please do claim so we can lynch some scum although personally i highly doubt you have a power role.

No matter what, you always ask someone who's going to be lynched for a claim. Well, except maybe in really odd circumstances that I can't think of.

[Cephrir]

Green Day's vote of Twomz is pretty OMGUSy. There were plenty of people, myself included, voting and pushing for Karen just as hard as Twomz was.

I don't think voting for Karen yesterday was scummy. If someone did it in a hoppy or oppurtunistic way, maybe. But I'd expect plenty of town were on Karen as well.

IF YOU ARE IN A DUALISTIC ROLE, DO NOT SAY WHICH SIDE YOU AFFECT.

/agree. +1 townie point for Twomz.

I can't really decide which of my three top suspects to put my vote on. I think I'm going to go for Sir "I Know For A Fact That Karen Is Town" first.

Vote curiouskarmadog
FoS dybeck, Green Day

[Cephrir]

I realize he was right. He can be right and still be scum.

CKD:

FoS: CKD. All of your arguments are based on the assumption that Karen is a bad town player. There is no reason she can't be a bad scum player. There is also no reason why scum would NK her.

I think you are scum and knew Karen wasn't scum with you. However, dybeck has just reminded me that he's scum. Looking back, I suppose you are really only

FoS

-worthy anyway.

Unvote, Vote dybeck

.

[Cephrir]

EBWODP: Should be "I thought you were scum"

[Cephrir]

Way to be oppurtunistic, CKD. I'm done arguing with you. I don't think any amount of explanation will get you to understand a single logical thing that anyone says.

[Cephrir]

The problem is that a ton of the players in this game are new.

[Cephrir]

Way to be oppurtunistic, CKD. I'm done arguing with you. I don't think any amount of explanation will get you to understand a single logical thing that anyone says.

jesus, I am scum when I dont vote karen because I think she is an idiot town, but I am oppurntunistic when I think you are scum and vote you..

cant have it both ways.

Clearly the wolves are inexperienced.

FOS anyone who's joined in last 6 months

what happened to my reply? And I think if we took a poll, your play would be voted inexperienced at best.

and the im rubber your glue award goes to.....
as much as I dislike Karma and his constant biteing I have to take one thing in to account. Cephrir has Voted\fosed both Karma\Dybeck and I reckon at least one of them is genuine ..So

FOS Cephrir

[/b]

There's a difference between thinking I may be wrong and thinking I'm scum. Just so you know.

[quote="CKD"well post why my points are not valid, I think they are...dont dismiss them because you dont have a valid response[/quote]

That's not why your points are being dismissed, FYI.

[Cephrir]

I realize that the question wasn't directed towards me, I was answering anyway. Your points are being ignored because they are illogical.

Maybe if you listened to my point day 1, we could have avoided lynching a townie…or maybe your goal in the game is to eliminate townies, because so far you have done exactly nothing protown.

Yes. Obviously. Because I totally wasn't right that Karen had to be lynched eventually. And I absolutely have done nothing protown. Other than, y'know, scumhunting. Which isn't important or anything.

[Cephrir]

funny, so far your scumhunting has produced a townie..good job..now you are barking up my tree because I was opposed to the easiest lynch Day 1 and wanted to town to actually have some conversation and discussion...yeah, you are some scum hunter buddy.so again, what have you done for this town?

I realize that the question wasn't directed towards me, I was answering anyway. Your points are being ignored because they are illogical.

Maybe if you listened to my point day 1, we could have avoided lynching a townie…or maybe your goal in the game is to eliminate townies, because so far you have done exactly nothing protown.

Yes. Obviously. Because I totally wasn't right that Karen had to be lynched eventually. And I absolutely have done nothing protown. Other than, y'know, scumhunting. Which isn't important or anything.

At the moment, actually, I have found scum in at least one of you/dybeck.

[Cephrir]

man, you are a joke....wonder if my vote placement has anything to do with your scum hunting?

funny, so far your scumhunting has produced a townie..good job..now you are barking up my tree because I was opposed to the easiest lynch Day 1 and wanted to town to actually have some conversation and discussion...yeah, you are some scum hunter buddy.so again, what have you done for this town?

I realize that the question wasn't directed towards me, I was answering anyway. Your points are being ignored because they are illogical.

Maybe if you listened to my point day 1, we could have avoided lynching a townie…or maybe your goal in the game is to eliminate townies, because so far you have done exactly nothing protown.

Yes. Obviously. Because I totally wasn't right that Karen had to be lynched eventually. And I absolutely have done nothing protown. Other than, y'know, scumhunting. Which isn't important or anything.

At the moment, actually, I have found scum in at least one of you/dybeck.

No, actually, I'm pretty sure it has more to do with your actions yesterday and the fact that you are scummy.

[Cephrir]

Reason #1:

Firstly, you seem to have excluded all possibility that Karen is scum

Finally, someone gets it.

FoS: CKD

. All of your arguments are based on the assumption that Karen is a bad town player. There is no reason she can't be a bad scum player. There is also no reason why scum would NK her. Everything I wanted to say in this post has already been said by Twomz, Zoneace and Sonicpulsar. But I feel the need to say this anyway:

KAREN, CLAIM PLEASE.

I think you were too adamantly against the Karen wagon, possibly because you are scum and you know she's not scum with you, and therefore is likely town, so you can say, "Oh, I was right!" the way you've been doing.

Reason #2: Illogical arguments both yesterday and today. This is mainly from when you argued with ZONEACE. The first reason is mostly why I'm voting you, but the second doesn't help.

[Cephrir]

I'll make a meaningful post here tomorrow-- there's no way I'm going to have much time for this tonight.

[Cephrir]

OK, here goes. Almost all bolding is mine.

I understand everyone else's vote (maybe not green day's) on Karen, but the reasons you provide are weak at best. You are voting for her because she is voting for herself..How does that help mafia? If you are voting for her and she comes up scum, does that mean you are “scum or just plain bad at this?” If you are such a pro at this game, you know a quick Day 1 does not help us. If anyone reads this post,

it sounds like he already knows Karen is town. Huge Scum tell in this post town.

This is coming from the guy who later seems to know Karen is town.

I realize that offing an innocent is bad, but we have no guarantee than Karen is innocent, in fact, she's just as likely to be scum as any of us, and if we have to lynch someone it may as well be her.

I dont buy it...our first day lynch should not be this easy...you dont find some of the votes on here...well, strange?...weak excuse? and explanations that paint her has bad town, not scum?

I may have already brought this one up, I'm not sure... but why can't it be that easy? It is entirely possible for newbie scum to suck and therefore out themselves. And if she was scum, she could easily have had the other scum group on her wagon.

This post almost acts like he knows that Karen is town. He doesn’t even actually put a case forward against Karen. He just states that the mafia will be “rubbing their hands with glee” at her death. Why is that? Because maybe she is a town? She might be acting like the village idiot (VI), but she is could still be town.

Someone asked, if Karen’s posts are helping the town. Yeah, I now think they are.

Yes, she drew votes, which could have revealed scum. But her posts themselves were definitely not helping the town.

Not all of the reasons for voting Karen are based on her being a bad player, just most of them. And also, like I said before, in games that start with day the first lynch is USUALLY town because we really have no solid info to go on, so even if Karen ISN'T scum (although i believe she actually is) why not make that first townie lynch a townie that isn't helping the town. Lynching a non-hellpful townie is better than lynching an active and possibly helpful townie inspite of a few suspcions.

so with that I'm gonna

VOTE KAREN

and

FOS that would be a vote if Karen weren't there on Dybeck

for his unending defense of the player that seems most scummy now.

Are you kidding me? I absolutely agree with dybeck. So if you FoS dybeck you should go ahead and FoS me too.

He is not defending Karen, he is attacking the fact that this town seems to be voting Karen because she is a bad player.

AGAIN, we can not afford to lose townies (even if they are bad). We are taking on two scum groups, that both get night kills. Not to mention that they can not kill each other. OUR LYNCHES NEED TO BE ON SCUM NOT BAD TOWN PLAYERS.

I have a feeling that at least one of the scum groups might take Karen out tonight.

Really assuming Karen is town here. At the time, she could have just as easily have been a bad-playing mafiate. Also, obviously scum wouldn't kill Karen if she was town because her existence was helping the scum by drawing votes and by being useless.

I realize he was right. He can be right and still be scum.

CKD:

FoS: CKD. All of your arguments are based on the assumption that Karen is a bad town player. There is no reason she can't be a bad scum player. There is also no reason why scum would NK her.

I think you are scum and knew Karen wasn't scum with you. However, dybeck has just reminded me that he's scum. Looking back, I suppose you are really only

FoS

-worthy anyway.

Unvote, Vote dybeck

.

wow, I dont know what is more astounding, that you actually posted that case, or that you think the town might actually believe it. I think you are scum, and you are trying to get another fast town lynch Day 2...hopefully the town will learn from Day 1..

unvote, vote cephrir

I still find davdangelsummers scummy..lets see how long he lurks.

This "case" (though I wouldn't call it that) of mine made perfect sense. You assumed Karen was town in many of your posts. And then you tvote me for calling you out on it. OMGUS much?

Those are what I'm talking about when I mention craplogic. This isn't really intended as a case though. Having reread all of your posts, I've revised my opinion of you. You defended Karen pretty strongly, but you obviously couldn't have known she was town (because the two of you could be from opposite scumgroups). So, if she turned up scum, you'd be taking a ton of heat today for defending her so much, and I don't think the risk you took was one scum would take. Also, bad logic isn't really a scumtell, it's just a playstyle/mistake thing. And the debate as to whether Karen was worth lynching as a bad town player on the off chance she was scum was really just a disagreement, not a tell. As such, I'm going to leave my vote on dybeck.

[Cephrir]

Top 3 Scumlist since I forgot to do this:
1. dybeck
2. Kanaga
3. Green Day

[Cephrir]

1. Cephrir - from reading your previous posts and what you have posted since I have been in this game, you just seem scummy to me.

That's extemely helpful. So basically, you've read the game and your top suspicion is a gut feeling?

[Cephrir]

I could answer that with a big long post, but it would basically just say this: "I changed my mind." So... yeah.

[Cephrir]

Is there anyone who feels lynching Green Day would be a bad idea?

I wouldn't mind it, except you're scum, so I'd much rather lynch you. That clearly isn't going to happen though.

[Cephrir]

Im sry if i was vague. I voted for Cephrir last gameday because his actions seemed scummy. Since then he is my top suspect to vote however i havent seen enough of his posts to vote on him yet.

If you're trying not to be vague, I suggest expanding beyond "his actions were scummy". That doesn't help anyone.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, you voted for karen, then unvoted and then voted for her again? what made you change your mind so many times considering karen's actions stayed the same throughout?

"So many times" really aren't the right words. I changed my mind twice. WHen I first voted for her, it was because she was playing horribly/scummily. I unvoted because she could have been a newb town as easily as a noob scum, and then revoted because she had as good a chance, and, in my opinion at the time, a higher chance, of being scum than anyone else, and plus if she was town she would never have been able to do us any good anyways, she'd have been impossible to read and couldn't be trusted in an endgame scenario. I feel like I've said this before, but whatever.

Why are you voting for Dybeck over Greenday? doesnt Greenday show similar traits as erraticness as Karen did?

Not to quite the same extent. He could quite feasibly actually help if he is town (if he actually tries) whereas there was no hope for Karen. And with his potential imminent replace-age, I'm pretty much not voting him at the moment. And dybeck is scum, which is why I intend to continue voting him throughout the day unless something or someone changes my mind.

[Cephrir]

It was not baseless at all, and you know that perfectly well.

(dybeck analysis coming tomorrow or Wednesday)

[Cephrir]

Gah, I can't do it today either. Have to do an essay. Tomorrow for sure.

[Cephrir]

I still don't have time to do a PBPA like I was planning to, and I don't think I will anytime soon. So here's the gist of it.

He rarely explains himself and calls out other for being unhelpful, while he himself is not particularly helpful, and is not actively scumhunting. He's constantly insisting that I am scum though he has yet to give a reason other than "I think everyone not voting Karen can see why". He really didn't give much of a reason for his suspicions of ZONEACE either:

It was very clear to

some people

yesterday that the bandwagon on Karen was based on spiderwebs and fairydust and that our best option was to carry on discussion until we had some more information.

To pretend otherwise is more than idiocy, it's a blatant lie.

Quite a jump there from "it was very clear to some people" to "it's a blatant lie to believe otherwise". Also, it's just plain wrong. There were plenty of reasons to vote Karen, and I'm pretty sure nearly everyone in the game has accepted that it had to happen eventually. But whatever. More importantly, be attacks Zoneace almost entirely based on the fact that they don't agree. I suspect that he may also suspect me because I disagree with him on that point, but he hasn't posted a reason so anything I say to that point is entirely conjecture.

He insisted (and continues to insist) that the Karen wagon was baseless, which as I have already said in my argument with CKD, is not true.

Of course the ironic thing is that she might well BE scum! But my belief is that there's absolutely nothing to suggest either way.

Right, but she was a bad player and therefore useless blah blah we've all heard this a million times. Yet even after admitting this, he continues to rave about the baselessness of the wagon to make others look scummy, even into Day 2. It doesn't make any sense.

Also, as everyone probably should have noticed (although I don't believe I've seen it posted), dybeck and CKD agree on pretty much everything. So, just an advance warning: If one turns up scum I will be gunning for the other extremely hard the next day.

There you go. Bad logic, lack of explanation for his suspicions (and therefore baseless accusations), inability to accept the fact that Karen could never be relied on and had to be lynched eventually. I posted this almost entirely stream-of-consciousness, so forgive me if some parts of it don't make any sense.

[Cephrir]

and you agreed with zoneface day 1, what do you draw from that..same logic?

I don't really get what you're saying here.

so if Daybeck turns up scum, I am guilty beause I didnt want to lynch the easiest person to lynch day 1(my choice had nothing to do with dybeck)?..ahhh, now thats sound logic..

what happens if dybeck "turns up" town, same logic, I must be town right?

Oh, come on. You don't have to try so hard to misinterpret my words, do you? You two agree on EVERYTHING. And putting your opinion yesterday in such a blatantly biased light is really not helping my opinion of you either. If he's town, you aren't necessarily town, no. Scumbuddies are linked together by agreement. Townies don't know each others' alignments so it doesn't apply. What I'm saying is that there is a link between the two of you, which is only a tell after one of the linked people is scum. And you know perfectly well that the part I bolded up there makes absolutely no sense. You have no right to tell me everything I'm saying is BS after making a ridiculous comment like that one.

What a mastermind you are to catch two scum agreeing with each other so openly....you been playing this game for a year huh?

I haven't caught anyone. If one of you turns up scum at some point, I will be very suspicious of the other. You're blowing my words way out of proportion. Just because you disagree with me, and you like to pretend I'm saying things that I'm not, doesn't make me a bad player as you seem to think, it just makes you illogical.

If there's any craplogic here it's definitely yours.

[Cephrir]

and you agreed with zoneface day 1, what do you draw from that..same logic?

EBWODP: Actually, I do get this now. Yes, actually, I'd say I would look quite suspicious if Zoneace died at any point and was scum, but at the moment I take no issue with that whatsoever since I'm confident that won't happen.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir does not seem any less suspicious because I don't agree with all parts of your argument. Especially the part about how because Dybeck and CKD could be linked because of agreement. If anything it would be the opposite. really bad scum move to be on the same side .. That being said your argument raises an interesting point about Dybeck and his constant recurrence of the baseless wagon on karen. Thorns statements are also quite weird and make a "huh" reaction go off.

FoS: Cephrir
FoS: Dybeck
Fos: Thorn

current candidates are possibly those three for my vote. bot ready to vote yet, but most likely within these 3.

Way to FoS all the people under suspicion. Commit to a vote please.

[Cephrir]

Thorn has 6 votes and Cephir has 4, to balance out the pressure, i will play my vote on Cephir.

I have feeling this gonna be a bad day 2. [/b]

1.) You forgot to actually vote.

2.) That doesn't make any sense.

[Cephrir]

Thorn works. This day needs to be done with, and dybeck evidently is not going to be lynched. So whatever.

[Cephrir]

A new day, a new vote. Well, the same one, really.

Vote: dybeck

[Cephrir]

how many townies have you lynched now?

That's so stupid it's not even funny. I voted for Karen Day 1. This is true. But I did not

lynch

her. If you want to say someone lynched her,

maybe

you could find a way to blame that on whoever hammered, but we all lynched her. Together. Trying to blame that solely on me is downright stupid.

And then we have Thorn. You're trying to put Thorn's lynch on

ME!?

I didn't even VOTE for Thorn. I was totally against the lynch ALL DAY, until it became either her or me, at which point I STILL DID NOT VOTE FOR HER. I'm not ure how you manage to take "I know I'm town so Thorn is clearly a better choice" and turn it into "Daykill: Thorn", which is the only way I could have singlehandedly killed her.

In conclusion, WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

Alright, I already know nobody will ever vote dybeck with me for some reason. So perhaps the town can stop watching CKD and dybeck lead them around by their noses and lynch the one who spouts horrible craplogic at every possible oppurtunity.

Unvote, Vote CKD

[Cephrir]

I don't like Cephrir and Zoneace being responsible for the lynch

... Wow.

[Cephrir]

Hm. Maybe there is a chace of getting rid of dybeckscum today. I'd forgotten there was another player in this game who used logic and/or thought before posting.

[Cephrir]

I'm voting for CKD for blatantly lying. It has nothing to do with disagreement, it is quite clear that I haven't lynched anyone.

My dybeck vote yesterday may have a little bit to do with disagreement, but honestly, so does his against me. And I have plenty of other reasons why he's scum.

[Cephrir]

are you saying you didnt supoprt the green day/thorn lynch?

I didn't really support or not support it, but what does that have to do with my post?

also, are you saying you werent on the Karen lynch?

No... I'm saying I didn't

lynch

her. Do you understand what

lynch

means? Here's a hint.

Lynch

does not mean

vote

.

[Cephrir]

WhoMe: I was against the lynch until it became either her or me.

now it is

No. It isn't.

well what does lynch mean then? Hope you are not about to blame her lynch on the hammer? Was your vote on the Karen lynch? Do I need to quote all the post from Day 1 pushing for a Karen lynch?

People are lynched due to a majority vote. The lynch is the responsibility of everyone who voted for Karen. Unless someone had some sort of crazy auto-lynching power, or a double vote with 3 players alive, no single player is going to lynch any other player.

so I guess I am misreading this post?..I guess being on your scum list, doesn’t mean you want someone lynched?

In that case, no. I didn't actually want anyone on that list lynched except for dybeck. The other two were just those I felt were most suspicious out of all non-dybeck players at the time.

you are saying that I am lying (to jusitfy this last vote on me)...please show my blatant lies

First there's the repeated insistance that I'm scum, which of course isn't true, but you only know that I'm not scum with you, so it's not

quite

a lie.

Then there's this.

how many townies have you lynched now?

This implies that I have lynched someone. It definitely implies that I had voted for Thorn. Surely even you can see that. Plus, when I assumed you were blatantly lying, I thought you understood the meaning of the word lynch. Of course, for at least the third time in this game, I have been proven wrong due to overestimating your intelligence. Perhaps I need to lower my standards. So this isn't a lie either, but it would be if you were even remotely logical. Instead it's just craplogic.

Now for a couple actual lies.

the wagon made sense if you were simple minded or mafia

Not so much. It seemed perfectly logical to at least half the players in this game, and I'm pretty sure we're not all simpleminded or scum.

Not only did Cephirr strongly push for a townie lynch yesterday..he is pushing crap logic today..

That's a lie, I didn't "strongly push" for Thorn's lynch. I didn't push Thorn's lynch ONE SINGLE TIME. Find me a post where I "strongly pushed" lynching Thorn. Oh, wait. You can't, because there isn't one.

[Cephrir]

No. It isn't.

Disregard that, I misread. So basically what you're saying here is "oh, you're right, you didn't lynch anyone". I would take this to mean you realized what lynch means, but you ask me later in your post, so apparently not.

[Cephrir]

So why arent you taking responsibility for Karen’s lynch? You just said you didn’t lynch anyone, now you are back pedaling saying everyone who voted is responsible, which is it?

I have taken responsibility for voting Karen SO MANY TIMES. WHAT PART OF WHAT I AM SAYING IS NOT GETTING THROUGH TO YOU. I DID NOT LYNCH ANYONE. I VOTED FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS LATER LYNCHED BY A MAJORITY INCLUDING MY VOTE. WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND.

Yet more back pedaling. Did you not comment on your stance on Green Day or was he one of the most suspicious of the non-dybeck players. Also, what is a point of making a scum list if you don’t want 2 out of the 3 lynched?

We were making scum lists. So I made one. The idea behind scum lists is "hey, these people are suspicious", not "I WANT TO LYNCH ALL OF THESE PEOPLE, THESE SHOULD BE OUR LYNCHES FOR THE NEXT X DAYS!!!"

So the fact that I think you are scum makes me a liar? You are ridiculous. So were you lying when you made your top 3 “scum” list? Strange double standard when it is convenient for you.

See, that was what I like to call a "joke". "Jokes" are supposed to be "funny".

You still have not explained what lynch means to you? All you said is that everyone who voted takes responsibility, yet you are not taking responsibility by saying you didn’t lynch anyone. As for Thorn, you just lied saying you never stated you provided a stance, yet, you did several times. Who here is really lying?

I gave a stance on Thorn, and that stance was that I didn't really care. When did I say I never gave a stance?

Where is the lie? You have stated my opinion.

Oh, so you actually think half the players in this game are stupid or scum. I'm sorry, I assumed you weren't being ridiculously condescending.

A couple posts where I FoSed Green Day

I wasn't pushing the wagon that hard. "Strongly push" is a massive overstatement. My scumlist is not a push, as I am being forced to repeat, I only wanted to lynch dybeck from that list. The last one is not a push at all, I said I "wouldn't mind" which has really been my stance on Green Day/Thorn all along, if he/she gets lynched, fine, if not, fine.

Do you even realize how excrutiating it is arguing with you because you twist my words in stupid ways to make me look bad? Well, it's awful.

[Cephrir]

There

were

townies acting scummy. Well, one, really.

[Cephrir]

Wonderful post, Twomz.

"Hey, I agree with everyone else. I think I'll vote for who everyone else is voting for, for reasons used by everyone else."

Really wonderful.

[Cephrir]

Nice tags.

If your vote was on the final lynch count that lynched someone, you did lynch that person (along with everyone who voted for her)..the fact you keep stating you didnt lynch Karen, says to me you are trying to avoid your repsonsibility.

We all lynched her. I, myself, just me, didn't. It took all of us. Together.

Jesus, more back pedal...so did you want to lynch the people on your list or not? AND, by having someone on your list, arent you providing a stance on that person?

THE ONLY PERSON I WANTED TO LYNCH ON THE LIST WAS DYBECK. I HAVE PROBABLY SAID THIS AT LEAST THREE TIMES NOW. THE OTHER PEOPLE WERE JUST PEOPLE I FOUND SUSPICIOUS, THEY WERE NOT LYNCHWORTHY IN MY OPINION AT THAT TIME.

You stated Thorn/Greenday was on your scum list yesterday? You now want us to believe that you dont care that you think you found scum?

I didn't "think I had found scum". When I think someone is suspicious, I don't automatically get into the midset of "OMGOMGOMG THIS PERSON IS OBV SCUM". That's why there are

numbers

on the scumlist. 1 is the most suspicious.

Nice appeal..."look guys, he thinks everyone who voted for Karen was either scum or simple minded, lets get him"

Well, from your response, I gathered that this is/was your opinion. Is it not?

Again, did you have a stance or not? Did you think he was scum or not? Dont you want to lynch scum? Why dont you care either way?

I had a stance. That stance was as follows: Somewhat suspicious but there are others I would rather get rid of. I was ambivolent about the lynch because there were others who I wanted to lynch a lot more than I did Thorn. I'm making this extremely clear so that when you inevitably ask me this question again in the future I can quote it.

[Cephrir]

when you provided your scum list, how were people to know from that particular post that you just wanted to lynch dybeck?

Maybe you could have gotten a hint from, I dunno, the fact that I've been voting for him constantly?

yes, It was my OPINION (think you stated it as a lie earlier, glad you came around)..I think scum and simple minded people who wanted an easy Day 1 lynch was on that wagon, what is your point?

Oh, so you actually think half the players in this game are stupid or scum. I'm sorry, I assumed you weren't being ridiculously condescending.

so your stance was you didnt really care about someome you had on your scum list?..then why make a list? Dont give me that crap again about everybody was making list, everybody was not.

I made a list to but out my opinion and suspicions. I found Thorn mildly suspicious. Not enough to want to vote for her. I am not going to keep repeating this at you, I've said it so many times that it's obvious you're looking for stupid ways to twist my words or you're not reading what I write.

Fruthermore, your vote is on me becaue of my "blantant lies" but you ahve failed to show one lie...this vote on me is nothing but an OMGUS vote..

I haven't removed my vote from you because you are being so ridiculously, exagerratedly STUPID that you can't possibly be doing it accidentally.

[Cephrir]

Oh, yeah, I think I'll just

not

defend myself from retarded accusations. Would that be better for you?

[Cephrir]

No thanks, as much as I am not having any fun in this game anymore I don't really want to let down the rest of the town by handing the game to you and dybeck.

[Cephrir]

I would get replaced, but I don't want to make the replacement waste reading the thread just to get lynched by tunnelvision and the blindly following town. And if you say I haven't helped the town (although I have been actively scumhunting), how have

you

helped the town? Or, really, since we haven't hit scum yet, how can it be said that anyone has helped the town, without currently knowing the alignments of their suspects?

[Cephrir]

If I had scumbuddies, I wouldn't be dumb enough to bus them right now.

Oh, and you and CKD are definitely not protown. Give me one thing you or CKD has done that can be considered protown other than being against townie lynches, since the two of you can obviously use the knowledge you have, being scum, to avoid being on the lynches of townies.

[Cephrir]

See, I usually don't have that attitude. But when someone is being intentionally obtuse, it really bothers me. The vote/lynch argument should never have happened, but the way CKD was saying that implied things that weren't true. And I don't have a case against Twomz, I think he's fine. I may be misreading your post there. And CKD definitely hasn't put together a serious case against me, if he has I've definitely refuted it just like I have all of his craplogic.

Honestly, this is the first time I've ever actually gotten really pissed in a mafia game, and it's not fun when that happens.

[Cephrir]

I mean, I don't really

think

CKD is as stupid as his posts, I think he's pretending not to understand a single word I'm saying. If he wasn't trying so hard to twist my words, the vote/lynch argument would never have happened.

[Cephrir]

I wasn't using it as an argument against him, I was pointing out that he was exaggerating. I disagree with your definition of lynching someone, but that really doesn't matter at this point, it's just a minor thing.

[Cephrir]

I'm not trying to shrug off the responsibility, it sounded to me like CKD was trying to put the entire lynch on me, but it isn't solely my fault.

[Cephrir]

Exactly.

[Cephrir]

never said it was just his fault...and he knows that for he quoted me when I said, that people on the Karen lynch were scum or simple minded (easily lead)..

right now, he is trying to bide some sympathy by saying that I said it was just his fault..never have I said that..all he said was that he didnt lynch her..which is a lie[/quote]

This whole thing is a matter of misinterpretation. When you said I lynched Karen, I took that to mean that you thought I alone was responsible. I was not lying when I said I didn't lynch Karen. At the time I said that, we were operating under different definitions of the word lynch, and neither of us realized this.

Day 2 he thought greenday/thorn was scum, but wants the town to believe he didnt care if we lynched him or not...which is a lie.

I absolutely did not ever think Thorn was scum. I realize that I am fallible and my suspicions can be wrong. I never thought for sure Thorn was scum. I thought Green Day was suspicious. When I say suspicious, I do not mean "THIS PERSON IS DEFINITELY SCUM". I have said this so many times it's not even funny. And I most certainly did not care if we lynched Thorn. If you think that is a lie, explain to me how it is that I obviously wanted Thorn lynched despite deliberately and repeatedly not voting for her when given the chance.

he says I am blatantly lying, when I prove him wrong, he ignores it...he continues lying....I think this town NEEDS to listen to me for once..

I AM NOT LYING. See the quote of yours before this one, where you say that I "want the town to believe I didn't care if we lynched Thorn or not, which is a lie"? Well, that's a lie. I definitely did not care if Thorn was lynched, and I said this many, many times yesterday. Please read what I write.

if I am wrong come after me tomorrow, but I doubt I will live through the night.

It's good to know that if you get the town to lynch me, we'll finally catch scum tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

Mind responding to me?

[Cephrir]

I have been, in case you didn't notice. If someone else other than CKD wants to make a case against me, I will gladly answer it. I really can't answer what Twomz has said, if he thinks my case on dybeck was weak, then so be it. I suspect CKD far more now anyway.

[Cephrir]

ooba: CKD is scum because of craplogic. Over and over. And also the reason you stated which is also perfectly valid.

More importantly, I'm not going to try anymore. CKD continues to be stupid, and I can see that I am going to be lynched today regardless of what I say. Any more effort I put into this game is a waste of time. Parting words for the town:

First off, and less importantly, I believe Tar has a very good suspect in Kanaga. He may be a good lynch target later in the game (tomorrow is reserved).

Most importantly, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT LET CKD CRAPLOGIC HIS WAY OUT OF THIS. He volunteered to be lynched tomorrow if he is wrong about me. Well, he is. I am a vanilla townie. So PLEASE LYNCH CKD TOMORROW.

That is all.

[Cephrir]

1) I'm not trying to be protown. I don't want to play anymore, it is that simple.

2) Yup. Once you guys see I'm town, you will know to lynch CKD tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

*ignores CKD*

Hey, Kanaga. No. See, CKD volunteered to be lynched if he was wrong. He used this to help get me lynched. The logic you're using right now is exactly what he's going to use to try to get out of this, and helping him do it really is not a good idea for the town.

[Cephrir]

All the people taking my side were scum