Newbie 1770: Water Game Over

[nydushermain]

Morning everyone. And god damn it....

VOTE: pep

Trust me. This is good for town.

[nydushermain]

@moogin YUP.

We actually both just finished a game together and he mishammered based on an impossible scenario. Like not an unlikely scenario, but literally an impossible scenario. (Will try to make a meaningful post when I finish with morning classes)

[nydushermain]

Hi everyone! Um, what does RVS stand for?

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

So while we're asking questions, I'd like to know why formerfish is going after jin so much still after he explained he wasn't going to be around much until the 17th. I still think jin is being suspicious, but is it worth it to continue to question someone who isn't going to be around for a little while? Wouldn't it make more sense to also question other people rather than stick to one person in this phase?

These are his first 2 posts in regards to SAJ. He never explicitly states that SAJ is scummy to him, just votes during RVS which is understandable (because of RVS). Then he justifies his RVS vote by saying "I still think jin is being suspicious" without having substantiated the reason why earlier.

Ok, so looking back here are things that I think are worth making note of:

Myself voting for jin, and I'm bringing it up now since I'm sure someone else will. I didn't know what rvs was at the time but I voted based on what fish was asking jin (why aren't you participating in rvs are you scum). I'm now realizing he was probably half joking with those questions...

Fykus giving a reason for voting for tiershift. No one else was giving reasons at this point and it was also his second post in the forum. It seemed like he was on the defense (which I guess most people would be if they're being voted for). Tiershift and fykus had a quick discussion about the exchange of votes and fykus decided to change his vote (but didnt yet) while tiershift changed his vote to jin. After that, fykus still brought up that there wasn't much going on the first day other than tiershift being somewhat aggressive about being voted for. It's interesting to me that fykus continues to be on the defense about tiershift despite the fact that tiershift changed his vote.

Tiershift changing his vote to jin and jack also voting for jin afterwards. Tiershift's vote came after formerfish explained why he was voting for jin and why it was good to question him, and jack specifically gave the reason that formerfish's "attack" seemed solid.

Have you played a game with pep before?

Then he states that his reason for voting on SAJ was because fish was asking SAJ questions which has nothing to do with SAJ being scummy or not. It sounds like he's flipping on the read because fish was possibly trolling with his questions which contradicts him stating that SAJ was still suspicious. I don't think this is how a town thinks and I feel like Moogin may just be scum faking scum hunting.

[nydushermain]

Morning everyone. And god damn it....

VOTE: pep

Trust me. This is good for town.

Bish what ya doing, I barely posted?!

Are you talking about this game or the one before? #burn

[nydushermain]

I figured as much, but I wanted to make sure.

I'm pretty sure that you need to have an encryptor for a day chat, or otherwise it would be mentioned in the OP. This is a strange question to ask IMO.

What???? How could this be a strange thing to ask? We literally just played a game and you called me practically confirmed town for asking this very question in LyLo... and I was town...

[nydushermain]

Ignore above... I didn't ask in the prior game. I just assumed that there was a day chat.

[nydushermain]

I was really confused for a second with your post because all of the pronouns were he and I'm a she haha, just for clarification

I'm so sorry T.T. I just played a game where the people talked about most on days 1 and 2 didn't have their genders on their profile so I spent too much time focusing on gender ambiguous pronoun usage... now there's actually a girl in the game and it's the one time I decide not to check. Kms

[nydushermain]

Also, this is my first time playing so in regards to "this is how townies think" and "this is how scum thinks" there's not really a point of reference for me. I'm sure that sounds like a BS excuse. I just want to try to see anything that could be suspicious even if it's not and I'm overanalyzing. As I stated in my long rant, I realized that the initial questions were probably just joking around and I was definitely reading way too much into it. Therefore, I changed my vote to fykus (even though I'm probably overanalyzing that as well...)

Let me try to understand where you're coming from just to make sure. You're saying that you thought SAJ was scummy because of the questions being asked of him?

[nydushermain]

Not because of something he did explicitly?

[nydushermain]

The questions being asked and his general avoidance of questions at first, it seemed weird. It's easier to just say "I'm going to be gone for a bit and I don't want to vote right away" rather than shitposting immediately then disappearing. Also a general suspicion of all people playing as well. I'll work on making my statements more coherent, I tend to ramble and make the same useless point 3 times and miss the point I'm trying to make

That's a little bit more in line with what you said. Why does the question being asked make him potential scum though? If I asked you a question, does it make you more likely to be scum?

[nydushermain]

pep, why aren't you voting?

Does this matter to you this early in the game?

[nydushermain]

UNVOTE: TierShift

Undoing my vote on TS for now, just because some coherent arguments for some other people here are starting to appear. I'll withhold my vote for now.

Also as a question to the experienced players here - generally when does a lynch end up being decided? Do people tend to jump on the bandwagon right at the end of the day or can people just stacks on someone half way through and cut the day short?

Not experienced in forum compared to live but from what I've read on forum games, it can be random at any point of the day depending on how scummy someone appears. If people aren't obvious scum, it'll take longer.

[nydushermain]

VOTE: Fykus

?

[nydushermain]

Tiershift reminds me of accountant's play style from last game.

[nydushermain]

Tiershift reminds me of accountant's play style from last game.

Nothing simular.

Maybe nothing to you since you lurked early day 1.

[nydushermain]

Tiershift do you have any reads?

[nydushermain]

I'll post later today. I've been busy sorry!

[nydushermain]

People seem scummier to me than the game I just played. Last game, I had a lot more town reads although that might be a good thing since I was wrong last game. Regardless, I had a town read on formerfish before his supposed "PR claim" which I don't particularly buy. Either way, not important today as it'll resolve itself tomorrow. Annoying though since you were my only solidish townread if you actually are a PR.

I'm going to ignore people who I consider null and just go right into people who I think are scummy.


I think that moogin has been playing a very strange game. Moogin to me seems like she's playing very laid back and trying to blend in. She's not playing aggressive at all and I feel like some of her reasoning has been off and not natural. For example, when she said in post 97 where she unvoted SAJ because she realized the questions being asked of SAJ were sarcastic? How are the questions asked by another person a scum tell for the person being asked? I also think it's interesting that she makes one light reads post and votes fykus based on like the first 3 pages of the game in post 78. She doesn't actually explicitly call fykus scum... just recaps some of the things he's done and calls it interesting and then votes. Then, in posts 262 and 270, she says that we should look at some of the inactive people and that she's unsure of who to lynch and that we should make sure? But earlier, she made a vote on fykus on what I believe to not be a confident scum read vote. I don't think her play makes any sense. She also claims that jack is the scummiest for her but she doesn't vote him at all even though her fykus vote is getting stale. Btw, jack is someone she actually called scummy, not just "interesting."


There's also a weird interaction between tiershift and toto and I can't tell if it's an IC trying to tell someone that they're playing the game poorly or a scum trying to help his partner get out of a situation that can only end up badly for his scum team. In post 212, TS says that toto is playing different from their previous game (and I'm sort of assuming toto was town in that game), which I assume is TS potentially scum reading toto. In post 214, TS again states that toto is potential scum by voicing that he's unsure of toto's intent in pushing formerfish. I feel like toto is doing things that could definitely be indicative of a scum push onto formerfish and not being able to react properly to formerfish's reverse aggression but TS is dancing around it really hard. TS also warns toto in post 235 saying "this is your last warning" and then toto continues to push on formerfish and TS just tries to dance around it further by saying "drop it" and trying to divert attention elsewhere in posts 259 and 260. Toto finally just drops it randomly after TS suggests lynching fykus and says "yeah let's just kill fykus" in post 261. Everything just screams of buddying up to me.

In addition to this, TS asks formerfish for his read on toto in post 215 and then when formerfish gives a case on toto, he just ignores it pretty much completely and just tries his best to get toto out of the situation he's in. What especially doesn't make sense to me is that he claimed that he asked toto "why are you so complacent this game?" to try to understand why he was playing so differently but during toto's push onto formerfish, he doesn't indicate at all that he's trying to figure out toto's reasoning. With respect to other players, TS asks questions such as "what is your read on ___", "why do you think _____", etc. But with toto during his push on formerfish, he doesn't ask "why are you doing this?", he, at best, just says "I wonder what he's up to hmm...." and then tries to pull toto out of the situation by diverting attention away and pushing on other people.

[nydushermain]

Oh and IF toto is town, I think that TS is never scum. I don't think that, even as an IC, scum!TS would be throwing so many lifelines to town!toto. I think that scum!TS would just state that role fishing, etc. is just antitown in general but would be more than happy to let the fight go on. I think the way that TS pushed toto into a different direction is never scum!TS assisting town!toto.

[nydushermain]

VOTE: Toto

I think that moogin is a good lynch as well but I feel like toto is just acting obviously scummy. Toto's role flip helps me a lot as well but either way, I think this is more likely to be scum than not.

[nydushermain]

We can lynch fykus if you want?

Like why is fykus a better lynch than someone who is role fishing, even after constant warnings from the IC and other people explaining to him why what he is doing is bad? Why are you trying to work with someone who you think is potential scum as you mentioned in prior posts?

[nydushermain]

I think that people are overexaggerating SAJ's posts. I think that shitposting on page 1 and 2 isn't antitown at all. In RVS, random shit happens and to say that someone is being antitown for making a poem within that period is hyperbole.

[nydushermain]

And I acknowledge that you might just be confused which is why my vote isn't on you.

My vote wasn't on someone who I thought was scum. My vote was RVS.

Fair point about jack not being the scummiest overall to you. Who is the scummiest then? Still fykus? Maybe SAJ?

It's odd to me that you vote on someone who you think is "interesting" rather than scummy. Do you have a better case on fykus than the one you posted previously?

[nydushermain]

I would be tied between fykus based on their continuing interactions with tiershift and Toto actually. SAJ is practically nonexistent to me until he comes back and starts talking again. Toto's weird tone and sudden aggressive attitude just seems too weird, and the willingness to vote for fykus after tiershift said to (even though tiershift didn't vote for fykus) screams scum to me. It's like "oh there's already votes for fykus, let's just vote for fykus and be done with that". The nonchalance of tiershift saying "just vote for fykus" seems scummy as well.

I think I vote for someone who is interesting more than scummy because I want to see their response. Fykus didn't respond to me at first and only responded after tiershift asked why I hadn't been questioning them. I consider that tiershift trying to make me a better player by the way. Their response didnt make sense, as I clearly wasn't bandwagoning off TS since TS changed their vote.

Can I try to summarize this post because I'm slightly confused? Tell me which ones are wrong and/or if I'm missing anything:

1) Toto could be scum
2) Toto AND TS could be scum partners?
3) Fykus isn't scummy, just odd
4) TS could be scum

Also, so do you think that fykus is scummy for not responding to you until prompted by TS or do you think he's still just... interesting?

[nydushermain]

Ny, read on fykus?

Lynchable but not on my radar as scum.

[nydushermain]

We can lynch fykus if you want?

Like why is fykus a better lynch than someone who is role fishing, even after constant warnings from the IC and other people explaining to him why what he is doing is bad? Why are you trying to work with someone who you think is potential scum as you mentioned in prior posts?

I see you mentioning that I distrust toto but I'm not particularly scumreading him. I just think he's being stupid. That's why I'm diverting attention away. Because I think the attack is stupid.

But do you think he's town? You're saying you're "on his rolefishing side" as if you're town reading him but you're saying you distrust him? If you were townreading him, why did you say things like "I wonder if this is just dumb attack or role fishing" (paraphrased to memory), or asking him why he was playing complacent which is, in your words, different from his previous game where he was town?

[nydushermain]

Your read progression doesn't make much sense to me. Also, why swap off moogin to fykus? Did you need a scummy town to push on and thought that moogin was too active for you to push?

[nydushermain]

Tier please tell us if fish claiming his role would confirm if he is lying or not. You are the IC and can not lie about game theory.

Fish, if you are town scum already know you are a PR. You don't lose anything by claiming your actual role.

The only thing that confirms whether or not he's lying is if he dies in the night or day... Him claiming what role he is does nothing. If he's PR, he claims whatever he is. If he's scum, he just lies. What does him claiming his exact role have anything to do with anything? You're just scum trying to see if he really is a PR or not, or which one he is. Your push makes zero sense.

[nydushermain]

It does god dammit. I already explained this. Tier please confirm this. You can not lie.

Look at the set up table in post 1. He can not claim anything without the other prs knowing if he is lying or not.

Fair point... ish... so let's look at the setup.

Either scum have a roleblocker or just vanilla mafia.

if they have:

A) ROLEBLOCKER:
1) Jailkeeper + Bulletproof
2) Cop + Doctor

B) VANILLA MAFIA:
1) Cop
2) Jailkeeper
3) Doctor + Tracker

[nydushermain]

I think I'm missing a setup somewhere.

[nydushermain]

Ah. Tracker + Bulletproof for scenario B.

[nydushermain]

I don't get why you're still pushing on him though... You already showed that you were going to wait by voting on fykus no? And now you're back on him?

[nydushermain]

Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).

[nydushermain]

Because he is not backing down. He really wants to get rid of me.

Moogin. He said again he is a PR in post 303

Well you're not getting him lynched today no offense so I don't see, regardless of his alignment, why he has to listen to you and claim his role. My vote is really cozy on you right now.

[nydushermain]

So what happened to your analysis of the set up table. What did you learn? Why change subject

Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).

[nydushermain]

It actually doesn't matter that much for me because I read formerfish town independently of the "PR claim." In fact, he's my only town right now so your push is looking even scummier.

[nydushermain]

Making formerfish claim exactly what PR he is also has a pretty good chance of giving scum the EXACT role setup if formerfish is town. Also not beneficial... Your strategy is ONLY GOOD if formerfish is scum. That's literally it. And if he is scum, he doesn't die in the night anyways so we kill him tomorrow...

[nydushermain]

Ny, read on fykus?

Lynchable but not on my radar as scum.

Why not

I don't see anything particularly scummy from him. Nothing townie either though. He's a literal null read and unless the votes people are placing on him are just pressure votes, not completely sure why he's the main person on the lynch table compared to someone like jack who I believe is playing very similarly.

[nydushermain]

So what happened to your analysis of the set up table. What did you learn? Why change subject

Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).

If he claims doctor the other doctor or bp will counter claim. Easy.

And if the setup is just
Vanilla Mafia / Cop / Vanilla Town??

Then scum!formerfish's claim of doctor goes unCCed because there's no doctor in the setup, and the cop believes his claim because obviously the setup of cop + doctor is viable.

[nydushermain]

You're looking for the smallest ways to get formerfish to claim his role. Horrific play as town. Excellent play as scum... if you weren't getting lynched

[nydushermain]

Like I feel like you're grasping at straws. You're posing random possibilities and not actually thinking them through, unless I'm the one overlooking something in which case someone should bring it up and correct me.

[nydushermain]

I didn't mean to start the battle again -_- ... What are the odds that the scum are just hiding in the fight.

[nydushermain]

Read my last post. He basically scumclaimed.

This ends with both of us dead.

I just assumed he missed an "if"

[nydushermain]

Unless you don't make it out of the day today and your partner missed it?

Seriously dude, I think I'm about done dealing with you. Your game play is ridiculous as town, and I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall trying to discuss anything with you.

Town dont point out softclaims. They recognize them, then they shut the fuck up about it until it is necessary for it to be vocalized. Think about it like a shut#out. You don't talk about the shut#out until it's over.

Sorry. I meant "if you're" ... Like "Your game play is ridiculous

if you're

town -"

[nydushermain]

If you are town then I hope you up your game before I ever see you in a game thread again.


Ninja- I want him dead. I think that rope will be the only way that happens. either he is just scum, or mislynch bait now.

Either way. He said this too. Does this mean he town told?

[nydushermain]

Pretty sure he's just venting his frustration at the possibility that if you're town, you're playing outrageously poorly.

[nydushermain]

@pep, now that toto has claimed that he's not a PR, does it still scare you that people might hammer? Were you afraid of a hammer before anyone asked toto what his role was?

[nydushermain]

But do you think he's town? You're saying you're "on his rolefishing side" as if you're town reading him but you're saying you distrust him? If you were townreading him, why did you say things like "I wonder if this is just dumb attack or role fishing" (paraphrased to memory), or asking him why he was playing complacent which is, in your words, different from his previous game where he was town?

His attack made no sense to me. I didn't like it, but I don't feel it makes him scum. A different tone also doesn't make him scum. Tones change over games. Mine does too. I was just wondering why it was changing.

I might've missed it but do you town read him? What's your actually read on him at this moment.

[nydushermain]

Moogin, are you still here?

[nydushermain]

Ok. Im at l-1. One more vote and Im lynched. Tier how many scum do you think are in my wagon?

1 prolly

If he's town, who do you think it is?

[nydushermain]

So here's where I'm at right now with toto. I tried to change my playstyle this game to not be on the defensive because that's where I was all game last game. Instead, I wanted to try going on the offensive and just spewing some BS but I think I got caught in my own tunnel. Toto could very well be town, and I'm pretty sure if I had JUST replaced into this game, I probably would've thought of him as town. Weird thing for me to say, I know, but I kind of agree with TS. The guy is acting a bit suicidal if he's scum... even moreso since TS gave him an out and he pretty much took it... and went right back into the depths of hell. I think there's a good chance that the scum are inside the people who are pretty much staying away from this fight.

UNVOTE:

I think that me coming back from being busy right during the midst of the fight feels like how alisae replaced into my last game when me and accountant were in a big fight.

[nydushermain]

I'm not sure if fykus is where I want the lynch to be headed though. We have 9 days to figure this out. Toto could still be scum, imo, but I think that we should take a step back until more shit happens. It would be absolutely horrific if I went into the next day with 1 town read, especially if he dies in the night.

[nydushermain]

I think we need pressure on both fykus AND jack, and to wait for SAJ to come back from his V/LA (does that mean vacation until a certain period of time so he's excused from inactivity?). I want a closer look on pep... and moogin too when she comes back from grocery shopping because I think there could be scum there. TS, like I've stated before, is always town if toto is town so this is a package deal for me. If we're not looking at toto, I'm not considering TS as a lynch.

[nydushermain]

It's town I think.

Rolefishing so blatantly is something scum don't do because it makes them a likely lynch target, especially in a newbie game. Town are more indifferent towards getting lynched and will just do whatever they THINK is the correct play.

Actually... this could also just be scum!TS bailing out his partner again because being the only scum left in the game after your partner gets lynched d1 is almost impossible to win. Jesus... If town could just play townie, this game would not be as weird.

[nydushermain]

RC your post on moogin was good don't get distracted now

VOTE: moogin

Can people who townread me please sheep tyvm

What. You went on moogin in an earlier post, then took pressure off of moogin to get the toto slot out of hot water to vote fykus? Then you're saying to go back on moogin? You're just voting randomly between the two... explain

[nydushermain]

It feels like wherever there's some sort of traction in terms of a wagon, you just jump on it... EXCEPT when it's toto's slot who I think was acting a bit scummier (although I could see how he could be doing this as town) than either.

[nydushermain]

Then why is he just jumping back and forth between two people? All he's doing is saying "these people are doing a good job in scum reading ____" or "what are your reads on these people getting voted on?" and then he places a vote.

[nydushermain]

I asked earlier in the thread if he could give his reads and he gave a cop out saying something along the lines of "I don't want to give my uncertain reads incase newbies just try to follow me because I'm an IC." But he hasn't really given anything other than a town read on you... which I had to ask for.

[nydushermain]

He could've just said "I townread toto and I think we should vote on ____" but I think he just didn't want to be associated with you but he couldn't have your slot get lynched either so he tried to draw the attention elsewhere. Why else would he refrain from giving the read on someone getting wagoned on?

[nydushermain]

I'm just not seeing TS having a town train of thought. Ugh. But I don't like moogin either, and I'm always lynching the toto spot before TS because I don't think TS is mafia if your slot is town.

[nydushermain]

Uh that's complete fucking garbage. Why WOULDN'T scum!TS white knight my slot?

It's the way he was doing it. He didn't white knight it until I told him to give his read on you. He was just passively trying to get the pressure off you by pushing the lynch onto other people. That's such a weird way for scum to play imo UNLESS you're together.

[nydushermain]

Uh that's complete fucking garbage. Why WOULDN'T scum!TS white knight my slot?

It's the way he was doing it. He didn't white knight it until I told him to give his read on you. He was just passively trying to get the pressure off you by pushing the lynch onto other people. That's such a weird way for scum to play imo UNLESS you're together.

[nydushermain]

Double post sorry. Phone sucks

[nydushermain]

Uh that's complete fucking garbage. Why WOULDN'T scum!TS white knight my slot?

What's your read on him?

[nydushermain]

Ny, I think you're having trouble with the fact that I'm not showing my thought process rather than with the thought process itself.

Then show the thought process. I think that you withholding a lot of why you're doing certain things is causing me to create my own reasons to fill in the blanks. But I don't see any other reasons that make sense so fill it in for me with something that might make sense in a townie mindset.

[nydushermain]

I think fykus is scummy for just following the toto wagon without adding anything to the discussion. He's not really questioning anyone or trying to figure out the game. It might be lack of commitment to the game though instead of being scum.

Now I voted moogin bc RC pointed stuff out about her and I decided to reread her leading to my reasoning laid out in my previous post.

That enough?

What made you vote initially on moogin and then ask toto if he wanted to lynch fykus and then swap to fykus? Did you forget that moogin was a scumread?

[nydushermain]

This is when you, TS, tried to divert attention away to moogin. You say it's fruitless but you were questioning toto at the time.

Toto what's up with that complacent tone? Why are you acting like this?

Toto, I'll put this here too since I don't remember seeing a reply to it. Guess that means that Tier is my partner, right? Cause they aren't pressuring you to answer that question.

I don't know what a complacent tone is

In our previous game you seemed like you wanted to work with everyone. In this game, you act like you know it all without interacting a whole lot.

While Fish attacks Jin for not voting in RVS he doesn't say anything about Fykus, who is also not voting RVS. At the same time he questions me for RVS voting Moogin instead of any of pre-existing wagons. Why ask that question if he feels RVS voting is what people should be doing? He is not being consistent in his line of questioning and thoughts.

Now he asks me how accurate my day 1 reads are. Why would you ask that question as TOWN? IT MAKES NO SENSE. Seriously, if we don't lynch this guy after asking this question I don't know what else to tell you.

I'm wondering if this is a serious case or just trying to probe

Fish, what is your read on toto?

You claim that your townread on toto was this:

It's town I think.

Rolefishing so blatantly is something scum don't do because it makes them a likely lynch target, especially in a newbie game. Town are more indifferent towards getting lynched and will just do whatever they THINK is the correct play.

But he wasn't "rolefishing" at the time because all he said was "fine you claimed PR" but he didn't delve deeper into it so if you claim to have had a townread on him then, you're just lying or just happened to have forgotten. So your claim that you tried to divert pressure away from toto and onto moogin just to nullify the argument between the two, when you were LITERALLY questioning toto's alignment at that time, unless your posts are posts you just put in there for the sake of having a good activity count, is absolute BS. Your play does not line up with what you claim to have been saying.

VOTE: Tiershift

This is literally just an anger vote. I know for like 99% sure that this won't get enough traction but this is driving me to vote on toto's slot. Funny enough, I think that moogin is still leaning scum, AND I think that her target, jack's catchup post was god awful and reeked of scum. I'll post my real vote on my phone at some time today but damn... Tier, your play is incredibly inconsistent if you're town.

[nydushermain]

I'm almost there daddy... I'm almost there...

[nydushermain]

What's your read on tiershift moogin?

[nydushermain]

@smith, when does SAJ have until prod?

[nydushermain]

What's your read on tiershift moogin?

I'm with you on TS being very inconsistent. There are a few posts that really stand out to me and you touched upon some of them as well. I'll go and find them.

Maybe I can get some traction on this o.O

[nydushermain]

Also how do you feel about Jack's post and FF's post having extreme similarities? Do you think it's a coincidence or do you think there could be something there?

I'm not actually sure. I didn't really notice the similarities and I wouldn't particularly read into it since jack is giving me the impression that he was somewhat trolling with his post. Either way, it sounded extremely fake to me and I think he's a pretty good lynch target. Not the best one today though.

[nydushermain]

Pep, i see you're online! If you're reading this thread, show yourself

[nydushermain]

I'm not actually sure. I didn't really notice the similarities and I wouldn't particularly read into it since jack is giving me the impression that he was somewhat trolling with his post. Either way, it sounded extremely fake to me and I think he's a pretty good lynch target. Not the best one today though.

Who would be a better person to lynch today then? I'm working on that TS post by the way, I'm just at work so it'll be slow moving. What specific inconsistencies do you see in TS?

If you read my ISO you'll probably find everything I currently have to say about TS. Nothing new comes to mind

[nydushermain]

I also think that a TS lynch isn't bad despite what I've said about toto + TS. I think that he is now acting independently scummy enough. I just don't think people will listen to me.

[nydushermain]

See that entire read feels off to me. I ask you again: why do you think that TS would

absolutely

not have white knighted my slot? In fact it seems like a perfect slot to white knight.

The whole debacle provokes different enough reactions among different people that there's virtually no chance that he gets called out for having townread my slot and it's not like he made a massive effort to derail my slot's lynch.

Yeah I'm reconsidering on that read.

[nydushermain]

I feel like Nydus might be chainsawing the fuck out of the Moogin slot but I liked one of Moogin's response.

But jesus that 'YOU'RE JUST RANDOMLY VOTING BETWEEN THE TWO... EXPLAIN' quote was super, super scummy and out of left field.

Did it not strike you as odd at all? That within the span of the whole argument between your slot and FS, he swapped back and forth between two people with no real good reasons, inconsistent at best?

[nydushermain]

This game is really exciting but I'm not sure I'm doing it right. It seems like you guys just make up bullshit then argue about it to see who cracks. I'm sure there's an actual strategy to it but I've never been much of a politician type so forgive me for floundering.

Here, I'll try.

This makes the post sounds like a joke. I want to get a response from him before I do anything.

Agreed but it sounded fake regardless and if that's his only contribution after not having posted in a whole...

[nydushermain]

Nydushermain I was going to go through and make a post but it's basically the same thing that you were saying. TS at first saying "I don't want newbies following me" then "we can just lynch fykus" and "please sheep tyvm". I'm guessing it's mainly because TS had better scum reads on fykus and myself, so I don't think it's as scummy as I initially thought. TS (I think) did also say tones shift throughout the game so I think I was reading too much into it.

RC, why would Jack be making joking posts when he hasn't been making many other posts? I think he could've been joking as well, but what would be the purpose in that?

I missed that! Nice spot!

I agree, why would he be making a joke post? Yet I think it was a joke post..

[nydushermain]

I eman I don't super townread TierShift but that seemed reasonable enough. If he suddenly has my support on Moogin and I threw a lot of fuel on that fire I can see why he would revote her.

To me, it doesn't seem like he cares who gets lynched. He's just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. To me, this seems like opportunistic mafia play.

[nydushermain]

Humor me on this: what's your read on both Fykus and MooginSoosy and can I get as much detail as possible?

I'm liking moogin more as the day goes but I'm still open to hearing a case on her. My initial and somewhat persisting scumread can be found in an earlier post, similar to yours. I'm on my phone so I can't give you more detail and it'll take you less effort to find my post than for me to find it and quote it.

Fykus I'm not sure on. I've tried to form an opinion on him but his posts just seem so bare and weak.

[nydushermain]

Can you reread everything Moogin has posted this game and give me a new read with more detail? Whenever you can.

That won't happen until I get home to my computer but remind me if I come back and haven't done so.

[nydushermain]

Nydus I am still waiting.

Reading now

[nydushermain]

I think that she's scummy for the reasons I've listed before prior to post 463. I think she starts getting a little bit townier after that because she's trying to work with new information but to me, that's only enough to bring her to a null read. I think that a lynch on her is not ideal today because there are several people who are scummier.

[nydushermain]

That's what you call in detail?

VOTE: MooginSoosy

If you want detail, ISO me o.O

[nydushermain]

People seem scummier to me than the game I just played. Last game, I had a lot more town reads although that might be a good thing since I was wrong last game. Regardless, I had a town read on formerfish before his supposed "PR claim" which I don't particularly buy. Either way, not important today as it'll resolve itself tomorrow. Annoying though since you were my only solidish townread if you actually are a PR.

I'm going to ignore people who I consider null and just go right into people who I think are scummy.

I think that moogin has been playing a very strange game. Moogin to me seems like she's playing very laid back and trying to blend in. She's not playing aggressive at all and I feel like some of her reasoning has been off and not natural. For example, when she said in post 97 where she unvoted SAJ because she realized the questions being asked of SAJ were sarcastic? How are the questions asked by another person a scum tell for the person being asked? I also think it's interesting that she makes one light reads post and votes fykus based on like the first 3 pages of the game in post 78. She doesn't actually explicitly call fykus scum... just recaps some of the things he's done and calls it interesting and then votes. Then, in posts 262 and 270, she says that we should look at some of the inactive people and that she's unsure of who to lynch and that we should make sure? But earlier, she made a vote on fykus on what I believe to not be a confident scum read vote. I don't think her play makes any sense. She also claims that jack is the scummiest for her but she doesn't vote him at all even though her fykus vote is getting stale. Btw, jack is someone she actually called scummy, not just "interesting."

There's also a weird interaction between tiershift and toto and I can't tell if it's an IC trying to tell someone that they're playing the game poorly or a scum trying to help his partner get out of a situation that can only end up badly for his scum team. In post 212, TS says that toto is playing different from their previous game (and I'm sort of assuming toto was town in that game), which I assume is TS potentially scum reading toto. In post 214, TS again states that toto is potential scum by voicing that he's unsure of toto's intent in pushing formerfish. I feel like toto is doing things that could definitely be indicative of a scum push onto formerfish and not being able to react properly to formerfish's reverse aggression but TS is dancing around it really hard. TS also warns toto in post 235 saying "this is your last warning" and then toto continues to push on formerfish and TS just tries to dance around it further by saying "drop it" and trying to divert attention elsewhere in posts 259 and 260. Toto finally just drops it randomly after TS suggests lynching fykus and says "yeah let's just kill fykus" in post 261. Everything just screams of buddying up to me.

In addition to this, TS asks formerfish for his read on toto in post 215 and then when formerfish gives a case on toto, he just ignores it pretty much completely and just tries his best to get toto out of the situation he's in. What especially doesn't make sense to me is that he claimed that he asked toto "why are you so complacent this game?" to try to understand why he was playing so differently but during toto's push onto formerfish, he doesn't indicate at all that he's trying to figure out toto's reasoning. With respect to other players, TS asks questions such as "what is your read on ___", "why do you think _____", etc. But with toto during his push on formerfish, he doesn't ask "why are you doing this?", he, at best, just says "I wonder what he's up to hmm...." and then tries to pull toto out of the situation by diverting attention away and pushing on other people.

Hi everyone! Um, what does RVS stand for?

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

So while we're asking questions, I'd like to know why formerfish is going after jin so much still after he explained he wasn't going to be around much until the 17th. I still think jin is being suspicious, but is it worth it to continue to question someone who isn't going to be around for a little while? Wouldn't it make more sense to also question other people rather than stick to one person in this phase?

These are his first 2 posts in regards to SAJ. He never explicitly states that SAJ is scummy to him, just votes during RVS which is understandable (because of RVS). Then he justifies his RVS vote by saying "I still think jin is being suspicious" without having substantiated the reason why earlier.

Ok, so looking back here are things that I think are worth making note of:

Myself voting for jin, and I'm bringing it up now since I'm sure someone else will. I didn't know what rvs was at the time but I voted based on what fish was asking jin (why aren't you participating in rvs are you scum). I'm now realizing he was probably half joking with those questions...

Fykus giving a reason for voting for tiershift. No one else was giving reasons at this point and it was also his second post in the forum. It seemed like he was on the defense (which I guess most people would be if they're being voted for). Tiershift and fykus had a quick discussion about the exchange of votes and fykus decided to change his vote (but didnt yet) while tiershift changed his vote to jin. After that, fykus still brought up that there wasn't much going on the first day other than tiershift being somewhat aggressive about being voted for. It's interesting to me that fykus continues to be on the defense about tiershift despite the fact that tiershift changed his vote.

Tiershift changing his vote to jin and jack also voting for jin afterwards. Tiershift's vote came after formerfish explained why he was voting for jin and why it was good to question him, and jack specifically gave the reason that formerfish's "attack" seemed solid.

Have you played a game with pep before?

Then he states that his reason for voting on SAJ was because fish was asking SAJ questions which has nothing to do with SAJ being scummy or not. It sounds like he's flipping on the read because fish was possibly trolling with his questions which contradicts him stating that SAJ was still suspicious. I don't think this is how a town thinks and I feel like Moogin may just be scum faking scum hunting.

Reasons why I thought moogin could be potential scum.

[nydushermain]

Faceplanted today while riding my bike. 8 stitches and a face covered in blood. Not recommendable.

vla until the concussion clears

holy shit. Hope you get better soon o.O... do you need a replace?

[nydushermain]

Now i feel bad for my post about him.

Haha don't worry I've grilled players who were unable to post for medical reasons before. I'm still exactly as likely scum as before the incident. (this is assuming you made a post grilling me cos I haven't actually read)

After a few hours of sleep I feel a lot better so I'm positive I can stay in the game

If we lynch you today we can let you get a lot of rest

[nydushermain]

Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).

If he's scum fakeclaiming, the real PR would counter regardless of setup.

What I'm saying is that there are situations where there is only 1 PR. For example, there is a setup with only a cop. However, if scum fake claiming claims doctor, who counterclaims? No one because there is no real doctor but there is a cop who knows that cop + doctor is a potential situation.

[nydushermain]

Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).

If he's scum fakeclaiming, the real PR would counter regardless of setup.

What I'm saying is that there are situations where there is only 1 PR. For example, there is a setup with only a cop. However, if scum fake claiming claims doctor, who counterclaims? No one because there is no real doctor but there is a cop who knows that cop + doctor is a potential situation.

Scum would first have to know there's a cop to have any confidence in attempting that fakeclaim.

If the cop is outed, there are a myriad of ways a fakeclaiming doctor gets outed.

A dead cop and living doctor results in a lynched doctor before or at MyLo because a real doctor would never be left alive by scum after the cop was dead anyway.

Now shut the fuck up about useless speculation and find scum.

What made you so angry? Who hurt you? The speculation was a counter to what toto was coming up with. Did you ISO me or did you actually read the game? Toto claimed that formerfish claiming an exact role outed him 100% if he's scum fake claiming. I was claiming that that's not 100% true.

[nydushermain]

Setup spec is useless busywork and that annoys me.

There is no purpose to it when we don't even have any hard claims to work with, so it's a waste of time that Scum can hide in.

Yeah but why the hostility when I was explaining to you why what you thought about my comment was wrong? Seems like an over reaction to me.

[nydushermain]

Setup spec is useless busywork and that annoys me.

There is no purpose to it when we don't even have any hard claims to work with, so it's a waste of time that Scum can hide in.

Yeah but why the hostility when I was explaining to you why what you thought about my comment was wrong? Seems like an over reaction to me.

Refer to 627.

I'd argue that I've done the most in terms of trying to find scum.

[nydushermain]

I'd argue that I've done the most in terms of trying to find scum.

If you want me to believe that, you need to lynch scum.

Anything else can simply be scum posturing.

Than vote with me.

[nydushermain]

*Then

[nydushermain]

Formerfish chainsaw on fykus if fykus is scum, and I don't think grey is scum. Either way, I think formerfish is town as well and would like to divert this back to tiershift. Would you like to explain your vote on me RC?

[nydushermain]

I like you Grey. You're a straight shooter. We shouldn't be at odds.

This

[nydushermain]

Just what scum would say.

was that not you calling him scum

[nydushermain]

Just what scum would say.

was that not you calling him scum

Only scum would say that.

Only scum would say that.

[nydushermain]

Just what scum would say.

was that not you calling him scum

Only scum would say that.

Only scum would say that.

Only scum would say that.

Only scum would say that.

[nydushermain]

I told my friend about what was happening just now and he told me I have to lynch the first person to break the chain. Is the mod lynchable?

[nydushermain]

Just look at the energy that is being spent in attempting to distract from Fykus scumclaiming all over the place.

I'm not calling him townie but I just don't see it. He doesn't seem like obvious scum to me.

[nydushermain]

Let's try it, no mod needed here hahaha.

Also holy cow these votes are ALL OVER and there's about 2 days left. I feel pretty good about keeping my vote on Jack though

Yeah it's kinda tragic. I'd say we should all come to a general consensus by tomorrow but it'll just end up with me having to compromise pretty sure on you, jack, or fykus...

Anyone have a strong read/opinion on pep?

[nydushermain]

Just look at the energy that is being spent in attempting to distract from Fykus scumclaiming all over the place.

I'm not calling him townie but I just don't see it. He doesn't seem like obvious scum to me.

What part of voting his highest townread strikes you as attempting to solve the game?

He didn't say that the person he was voting was his strongest town read if I recall. Felt like people skimmed through his post. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he said that within people of the same colour categories, the order didn't reflect the strength of his reads.

[nydushermain]

You're right though, I forgot he voted on a townread because I overlooked t thinking people were overreacting.

[nydushermain]

He didn't say that the person he was voting was his strongest town read if I recall

He admitted it when I called him on it.

Hm. Maybe I should reread the last couple of pages. My memory of earlier events is much stronger.

[nydushermain]

What do you think of my case on TS?

[nydushermain]

What do you think of my case on TS?

Effort is not indicative of alignment.

I meant do you disagree or agree with it. I don't care about your read on me.

[nydushermain]

This is when you, TS, tried to divert attention away to moogin.

<snip>

So your claim that

you tried to divert pressure away from toto and onto moogin

just to nullify the argument between the two

<snip>

Funny enough, I think that moogin is still leaning scum

Your TS case is bogus, because you are accusing your scumread of diverting attention

onto a scumlean

.

The only way your case adds up is if you are reading moogin as town, because scum would not draw attention to their newbscum partner.

But what if moogin is town... I'm not claiming in any way that they're partners. I'm claiming that his progression is not natural and he's just as inconsistent, if not more, than fykus

[nydushermain]

But what if moogin is town... I'm not claiming in any way that they're partners. I'm claiming that his progression is not natural and he's just as inconsistent, if not more, than fykus

If your case was real, you'd HAVE to be calling moogin town, BUT YOU DIDN'T.

Saying " this guy is scum for bringing pressure to bear on this other guy that may also be NEWBscum" in a singleball game does not compute.

And that is why I believe the scumteam lies within {Jack, Fykus, Nydus}

Those are the only three I'll Lynch today.

Incorrect. He diverted pressure to both fykus and moogin and I claimed that he could be partners with toto/RC. You're claiming that I'm making a case where I HAVE to only have TS and his partner as scum. That's not the case. I don't think people have been playing very townie this game and thus have many people as scum. However, these are the people I think have been the scummiest, namely TS. I'm disappointed because you came across as someone who was reading carefully.

[nydushermain]

Not buying the act.

TS' actions would clear Moogin if your case was legit. You're only concerned with finding ways to keep lynch options open.

It clears moogin if I thought I was 100% correct. For the record, I've noted that moogin's push on TS made her townie in my eyes. You're suffering from reading my ISO without context.

[nydushermain]

Not buying the act.

TS' actions would clear Moogin if your case was legit. You're only concerned with finding ways to keep lynch options open.

Yes, I totally want to keep lynches open which is why I kept my vote parked on the person with the lowest vote count (until like a page ago) #sarcasm

[nydushermain]

Don't worry bro, I'm not trying to convince you that you're scum.

I'm putting the info out for others to read and come to their own conclusions.

No chance in hell do you come anywhere near MyLo as long as I'm alive, though.

I'm trying to determine whether you're just spouting BS or is genuinely just misreading me -.-

[nydushermain]

You're literally being anti town already because it sounds like you're not going to even try to re-evaluate with that comment.

[nydushermain]

Defending caughtscum Fykus isn't making you look any better in my eyes, that's for sure.

1) id like to remind everyone that this is a newbie game
2) I didn't defend him, I pointed out that you didn't read

[nydushermain]

VOTE: jackchaos

fuck that shit see you bro

You're really fucking dumb if you're town but at least you're voting on someone scummy... I'm okay with this lynch. Let's see the flip.

[nydushermain]

You're really fucking dumb

Oh the ironing.

Okay I realize what just happened.... -_-

VOTE: NydusHerMain

If I do die, I want everyone to remember that he made a case on why moogin was scummy, literally the only case he's ever made and is now voting on me which he gave zero reasons for.

VOTE: jackchaos

fuck that shit see you bro

You're really fucking dumb if you're town but at least you're voting on someone scummy... I'm okay with this lynch. Let's see the flip.

So scummy TS tried to divert attention away from scummy Toto/RC onto scummy Moogin... AND JACK IS SCUMMY TOO.

If you think that someone should only have 2 scum right from the get go, you're horrific at this game. TS, toto/rc, jack, and fykus are scummy. I stated before that I no longer believe moogin is scummy. TS was not scum for diverting onto moogin... he was scum for being inconsistent with his reads and it just so happened that his pushes on fykus and moogin stemmed from that inconsistency. You're not reading, and it's fine. If you have the time to get past your ego, I'd like you to read the thread instead of just ISOing. You'll find that I'm more obvious town.

[nydushermain]

I wouldn't mind lynching Pepcho either tbh.

Yeahhhhhhhh okay my philosophy at this point is there's too many people doing terrible and anti-town shit and hiding behind 'oh I'm a newbie.'

It's time to start clearing out that crowd of people.

I'm deciding if I'd rather vote Fykus or JackChaos.

VOTE: NydusHerMain

VOTE: RC

If he flips scum, we're

100%

lynching TS tomorrow. No question AT ALL. Like literally, the next day will start and I want TS dead with RC within 24 hours of day starting.

[nydushermain]

All your blathering doesn't change the fact that it makes zero sense to say that scum!Tier diverted attention from scum!Toto onto scum!Moogin

Scum!Tier diverting attention to Moogin should have cleared her in your reads right then.

No because I had both of them as potential scum. What I was looking for was whether or not his reads came organically or if he was just looking for somewhere to throw his BS.

[nydushermain]

I have solved the game.

VOTE: RC

Lynch me and I'm calling the next two lynches. I am 100% confident that 6 other people in this game are town.

If you really were confident, you would literally just name the two people you consider scum within the same post. This is scum faking.

[nydushermain]

I change my mind about 790

You have no reason to fake here in response to my vote since there's no real pressure. Could still be scum but wasn't AI.

[nydushermain]

Well if you have me in scum list of scum, you're sorely mistaken.

[nydushermain]

VOTE: JackChaos

I can vote here or Nydus.

What happened to your scum read on caught scum fykus? Are you just looking to mislynch?

[nydushermain]

Pressure ramps up and Nydus gets scared and starts pushing on Grey instead.

Why would I be scared? If I were scum, surely I could just park my vote on TS who obviously isn't aligned with me when he's majority wagon. Or I could go on jack who would still be majority wagon after I already called him scum.

[nydushermain]

The things you guys are pushing on are not scum tells. If you're town, it's your ego/overconfidence getting in the way.

[nydushermain]

This is literally why I have so few strong townreads. Not one of you is consistent with your reasoning and logic and that's fine coming from the newbies but I expect more from the veterans.

[nydushermain]

VOTE: JackChaos

I can vote here or Nydus.

What happened to your scum read on caught scum fykus? Are you just looking to mislynch?

And that is why I believe the scumteam lies within {Jack, Fykus, Nydus}

Those are the only three I'll Lynch today.

VOTE: JackChaos

I can vote here or Nydus.

OH MY GOD, I'M BEING SO INCONSISTENT EVERYONE!

You literally said fykus was caught scum and you said that "I can either vote here or nydus" which didn't involve fykus, your literal top scum read that you were urging everyone to vote. Me and jack were just "these could also be scum" reads and fykus vanished the moment you realized he wasn't lynchable. If you thought he was actually as super scum as you said, you would be fighting to throw the wagon back onto him.. not being complacent with a jack lynch.

[nydushermain]

You think you're smarter than you are grey. Take a look back through your ISO. It'll be a moment of clarity. Or you'll just continue to be an egotistical asshole and think you're still right. Either way, the world will go on and you'll berate someone for being afk despite his concussion.

[nydushermain]

What? You didn't even refute my arguments.

You're assigning values that never existed.

This is you having nothing to say.

[nydushermain]

VOTE: NydusHerMain

sigh

If you think that someone should only have 2 scum right from the get go, you're horrific at this game. TS, toto/rc, jack, and fykus are scummy. I stated before that I no longer believe moogin is scummy. TS was not scum for diverting onto moogin... he was scum for being inconsistent with his reads and it just so happened that his pushes on fykus and moogin stemmed from that inconsistency. You're not reading, and it's fine. If you have the time to get past your ego, I'd like you to read the thread instead of just ISOing. You'll find that I'm more obvious town.

I responded to your accusations. Why are you ignoring me?

RC stop being idiotic tyvm

Can you link them? I didn't see it.

[nydushermain]

VOTE: NydusHerMain

sigh

If you think that someone should only have 2 scum right from the get go, you're horrific at this game. TS, toto/rc, jack, and fykus are scummy. I stated before that I no longer believe moogin is scummy. TS was not scum for diverting onto moogin... he was scum for being inconsistent with his reads and it just so happened that his pushes on fykus and moogin stemmed from that inconsistency. You're not reading, and it's fine. If you have the time to get past your ego, I'd like you to read the thread instead of just ISOing. You'll find that I'm more obvious town.

I responded to your accusations. Why are you ignoring me?

RC stop being idiotic tyvm

Grey

stop being idiotic tyvm.

FTFY

[nydushermain]

At the time, I believe it was inconsistent for wanting the fight to stop because it had barely started. Unless I'm misreading the situation entirely, you tried to divert pressure to fykus or moogin on the same page that formerfish claimed WHILST you were wondering about toto's alignment.

[nydushermain]

You're assigning values that never existed.

Then explain this and I'll refute whatever you're saying. What I've said is literal fact. You said you were scum reading me for "soft defending" fykus who is caught scum. Then, when TS and whoever else took fykus off their lynch list, you removed him completely and just said "okay my vote on jack or nydus today"

[nydushermain]

I'm spewing facts and you're just trying to refute it by saying "nahhhh"

[nydushermain]

If you want me to take you seriously, take a much needed nap and come back in 2 hours. I should still be here.

[nydushermain]

At the time, I believe it was inconsistent for wanting the fight to stop because it had barely started.

That has nothing to do with consistency. I found there was a fight going on and I wanted to break it up. You can disagree with it being a fight but it is not inconsistent in any way or form.

Unless I'm misreading the situation entirely, you tried to divert pressure to fykus or moogin on the same page that formerfish claimed WHILST you were wondering about toto's alignment.

Exactly. I can wonder about someone's alignment and not want everyone else's focus to be there. What's the problem?

The time frame felt too short to warrant the fight being big enough to break up.

[nydushermain]

If you want me to take you seriously, take a much needed nap and come back in 2 hours. I should still be here.

You're Scum. I gives a damn what you have to say.

This is so anti town LOL. Like I said in a previous post, you had no intent of working with me in the first place. Despite everything I say that counters any argument you make, you continue to be stubborn/arrogant about "being right" when you're literally not. I hope you're scum and not this bad but you're probably just this bad.

[nydushermain]

If you want me to take you seriously, take a much needed nap and come back in 2 hours. I should still be here.

Just stop responding. Please. About half of what grey says is gross exaggeration, so don't take everything at face value. Not saying it's your fault but talking to him about what he said is fruitless.

It's not exaggeration, it's alternative facts.

[nydushermain]

The time frame felt too short to warrant the fight being big enough to break up.

That is not what your earlier argument was. Even if the time frame was very short, what benefit would scum-me have by breaking up the fight?

It was my earlier argument. The time frame was too short for the fight to break up, and you were questioning the alignment of toto so trying to divert the pressure before you had a good handle on toto's alignment was very odd to me. Especially when you're trying to divert pressure to someone else before you have a grasp on the alignment of the person you're diverting the pressure from. If I were there during the fight, I would've waited just a bit longer to see a couple more posts that were AI.

[nydushermain]

Deadline is less than two days away.

We should all scatter our votes!

Hypocrisy when jack and TS had majority wagon.

[nydushermain]

VOTE: RC

fykus no come here and talk to me

[nydushermain]

Deadline is less than two days away.

We should all scatter our votes!

Hypocrisy when jack and TS had majority wagon.

TS is town.

Jack wagon fell apart because of you.

Do go on.

Jack wagon fell apart because of RC.

[nydushermain]

Stop it with your confirmation bias.

[nydushermain]

Deadline is less than two days away.

We should all scatter our votes!

Hypocrisy when jack and TS had majority wagon.

TS is town.

Jack wagon fell apart because of you.

Do go on.

Jack wagon fell apart because of RC.

No.

Jack wagon fell apart because of your scum ass reaction to RC's fakehammer.

Nope. RC voting on me made you vote on me. That's all.

[nydushermain]

Love how RC only shows up to vote on people lately. He doesn't care.

[nydushermain]

If you really think you've solved the game, just say the 2 names.

[nydushermain]

Deadline is less than two days away.

We should all scatter our votes!

Hypocrisy when jack and TS had majority wagon.

TS is town.

Jack wagon fell apart because of you.

Do go on.

Jack wagon fell apart because of RC.

No.

Jack wagon fell apart because of your scum ass reaction to RC's fakehammer.

Nope. RC voting on me made you vote on me. That's all.

Sure.

That's all.

As long as you completely ignore context, that's totally all there is.

You've been ignoring context all game. Cherry picking my posts instead of seeing why I made them in the first place.

[nydushermain]

You remind me of alisae except douchey.

[nydushermain]

You've been ignoring context all game. Cherry picking my posts instead of seeing why I made them in the first place.

You just mad that I destroyed your fabricated reads.

Like what LOL

[nydushermain]

Because nothing I've actually done is scummy and I think you're probably town. I'm not calling you retarded because I think you're scum, I'm calling you retarded because I think you're dumb ass town LOL. I don't think you realize this.

[nydushermain]

Yes, sorry I don't have the entire game figured out right from the get go but honestly, you don't either. You just think you do.

[nydushermain]

You have no actual logic or reasoning against me. Your scum read on me stems from your ego and arrogance. If you actually take the time to think and try to build an actual, sensible case against me, I'll do my best to respond to all your accusations. At the moment, you're just spewing BS.

[nydushermain]

Stop feeding the troll please, you even acknowledge he is town. Why the hell would you continue arguing?

It doesn't frustrate me when people scumread me. What frustrates me is when people twist the facts to scumread me. I can't help it.

If I were there during the fight, I would've waited just a bit longer to see a couple more posts that were AI.

I didn't get the idea that anything AI was coming out of it (aka useless as said before), which is why I decided to intervene. At that moment I did not have a clear grasp on either arguer. Therefore, I continued to question ToTo, while trying to shift the focus of the game away.

How the hell is that inconsistent?

I'll ISO you again. My memory is blurry of the situation now and I don't remember you questioning toto. I felt like you were potentially getting something out of it until you tried to divert. I'll find the post but I mentioned it before when you said "I wonder if toto is trying to prod or ____"

You know there's 7 other people in the game of which at least 5 are town. Maybe reaching out to them might be more useful than whatever the hell you are doing now.

The problem is, I like to interact with people who are here. RC vanished because he probably knows I'm town and doesn't have any actual reasoning against me and needs to disappear so that he doesn't get caught. Grey is here, you're here (and I've been responding to you) and fykus just randomly came in to vote? Everyone else is MIA.

[nydushermain]

Chronologically, you questioned him BEFORE trying to break the fight up. Not in between your attempts to break the fight.

[nydushermain]

You can't defend your assertion that scum!Tier diverted attention from scum!Toto onto scum!Moogin.

That's a logically impossible belief to hold in a game with two scum confirmed in the setup.

You can write me a novel, but it's not going to change the fact I busted you on that.

I've literally addressed it and you just ignore my explanations -_-

I'm putting you on ignore until you at least acknowledge their existence.

[nydushermain]

The problem is, I like to interact with people who are here.

Do it as long as it's useful. If it's not, i try to prevent it getting out of hand just as I did before with ff and toto.

Rc can easily make up reasons to scumread you. He's not even trying. I know he has a good scumgame.

I tried to convince him why he was wrong but it's gotten out of hand. God he's so annoying.

[nydushermain]

Holy crap a lot happened. I'm here, I just need to read this mess again.

There's honestly nothing to read.

[nydushermain]

VOTE: RC

fykus no come here and talk to me

@fykus

[nydushermain]

If RC was town, WHY WOULD HE DERAIL THE JACK LYNCH?

The only way to even pretend to scumread RC is if you think Jack is his buddy.

Second thing I agree with.

UNVOTE:

[nydushermain]

If RC was town, WHY WOULD HE DERAIL THE JACK LYNCH?

The only way to even pretend to scumread RC is if you think Jack is his buddy.

Second thing I agree with.

UNVOTE:

Then you should have quoted the edited post.

I saw the edited post but didn't want to make a quote pyramid which I'm doing now.

[nydushermain]

I want to vote TS but he's the only one trying to work with me. Struggling to find the scum motivation behind stopping the fight between me and grey where if both me and grey are town, this is like candy for scum!TS.

I want to plant my vote on fykus/grey, maybe pep? but I want to see what moogin has to say first.

[nydushermain]

If RC was town, WHY WOULD HE DERAIL THE JACK LYNCH?

The only way to even pretend to scumread RC is if you think Jack is his buddy.

Second thing I agree with.

UNVOTE:

Then you should have quoted the edited post.

I saw the edited post but didn't want to make a quote pyramid which I'm doing now.

You didn't need to make a quote pyramid. You could have quoted the edited post instead of the typo post.

And I'll always get my quote pyramid in the end!

That's true actually. I always feel iffy about cutting posts up and editing them because I don't want to accidentally mess up someone's post.

[nydushermain]

I want to plant my vote on fykus/grey, maybe pep?

For bitching about inconsistency, you sure are a hypocrite.

RC and TS are practically connected to me. I think that their EoD has been somewhat townie. Won't touch them. Context sir. Context.

[nydushermain]

Fykus can you say something?

[nydushermain]

Literally, fykus has put a vote on RC which is fine but he didn't anything but was CLEARLY following the thread throughout the entire argument because the moment moogin showed up, he pretended that RC was at L-1 to, I assume, provoke a reaction test. This means that fykus read me and TS asking him to talk? But he's ignoring it?

[nydushermain]

Not interested in Fykus.

I want Jack.

Why not fykus? What changed your mind on him?

[nydushermain]

I don't think RC is scum so I wouldn't vote for them.

I still think Jack is scum and it doesn't seem like he's coming back anyways. He's been prodded but still hasn't responded despite saying he has his phone now and he'll be on more. So do we lynch the slot that's going to be replaced most likely or wait until someone takes the slot?

Have you read everything that's transpired?

[nydushermain]

Why would it make RC Jack's buddy if RC did the fakehammer?

If Jack flips scum, RC was probably drawing attention off him with the fakehammer.

It's an elegant way to redirect a wagon on the eleventh hour because everybody scrambles for an alternative lynch.

That's what I thought.

Nydushermain, I'm confused about how you said jack was scummy after the fakehammer and that it would be a good lynch, but you want to vote for pep fykus or grey?

Oh jesus. I meant to say jack, not grey.

[nydushermain]

I want to plant my vote on fykus/grey, maybe pep?

For bitching about inconsistency, you sure are a hypocrite.

This makes more sense to me now.

[nydushermain]

What's the VC?

[nydushermain]

VOTE: pep

I think that this slot at least needs some pressure.

@grey, where was fykus in your lynches EoD?

[nydushermain]

^

[nydushermain]

@grey, do you think that people have the intent of keeping this wagon? I'm voting purely out of pressure, and believe TS is as well. The speed shouldn't really matter

[nydushermain]

@grey, do you think that people have the intent of keeping this wagon? I'm voting purely out of pressure, and believe TS is as well. The speed shouldn't really matter

Wow, that empty slot sure is feeling pressure isn't it?!?!

Well I mean we couldn't predict that he was going to have 100% potatoed.... -_-

[nydushermain]

LOL LOL LOL LOL

I thought you just knew ville IRL or it was a smurf of some sort. LOL

[nydushermain]

Hey Ville...

I wasn't kidding about your slot being caught scum.

VOTE: Ville

Just go ahead and out your partner so we can call it a day.

VOTE: -Grey-

I will claim if everyone is going to vote against me; but that would be against the interest of the town, making myself a kill target this night.
Or I need protection from a town doctor this night.

Ville specifically said "town doctor" so that implies that if he's a real PR, he's and investigative one because only doctor exists in cop or tracker. Let's pretend there's no scum that nks (I didn't actually know that was a possibility @grey), then that means that either formerfish is scum, or he's bulletproof with a shot on him hence the nk, or he's doctor and got a save somewhere?

I think that there should be a mass claim. This will make the game way easier. I HIGHLY DOUBT that if pepcho was cop, he'd check fish. If he were tracker, maybe he checks fish to see whether or not the PR claim holds. Either way, I think that a lot gets revealed because if fish is doctor, he gets a free town check almost (if we assume that scum don't nk).

UNVOTE:

I personally want hard claims in this order:

Ville
Formerfish
Grey
TS
Moogin
Fykus

I'm vanilla town, and RC claimed vanilla town earlier I believe. People from Grey to Fykus was just based on memory of who was in the game. Thoughts?

[nydushermain]

Or fish wasn't even targeted. I'm presenting possibilities, not absolutes

[nydushermain]

Or fish wasn't even targeted. I'm presenting possibilities, not absolutes

Somebody was. A kill was still stopped.

The only claim that would have made any sense from Ville would have been a protective role. Him claiming investigative is just to fish for a counter before he dies.

So why can't he be tracker, for example, formerfish bulletproof, and then he asked for protection because he didn't read the thread properly? Either way, I think it's unlikely. Formerfish doesn't even need to claim his role tbh, he just needs to claim "bulletproof" or "not bulletproof"

[nydushermain]

I'm the Town Tracker.
Because no one was active as me in the night no actions happened at all.

What does this mean?

[nydushermain]

I thought tracker picked someone, and then followed them in the night to see who they visited?

[nydushermain]

OH. Okay that makes sense -_- I'm dumb

[nydushermain]

Hi. What are you people doing? Have we been reading the same game I have? Get the fuck off grey and vote fykus.

VOTE: Fykus

[nydushermain]

Hey Ville...

I wasn't kidding about your slot being caught scum.

VOTE: Ville

Just go ahead and out your partner so we can call it a day.

VOTE: -Grey-

I will claim if everyone is going to vote against me; but that would be against the interest of the town, making myself a kill target this night.
Or I need protection from a town doctor this night.

Ville specifically said "town doctor" so that implies that if he's a real PR, he's and investigative one because only doctor exists in cop or tracker. Let's pretend there's no scum that nks (I didn't actually know that was a possibility @grey), then that means that either formerfish is scum, or he's bulletproof with a shot on him hence the nk, or he's doctor and got a save somewhere?

I think that there should be a mass claim. This will make the game way easier. I HIGHLY DOUBT that if pepcho was cop, he'd check fish. If he were tracker, maybe he checks fish to see whether or not the PR claim holds. Either way, I think that a lot gets revealed because if fish is doctor, he gets a free town check almost (if we assume that scum don't nk).

UNVOTE:

I personally want hard claims in this order:

Ville
Formerfish
Grey
TS
Moogin
Fykus

I'm vanilla town, and RC claimed vanilla town earlier I believe. People from Grey to Fykus was just based on memory of who was in the game. Thoughts?

Actually I am very, very certain that this slot is town.

Right, because it's obvious that scum is going to be abrasive.

It's not like they'd get father in the game by appeasing town or anything.

You can be scum and abrasive. Works as well.

Rc, do you think ny could be capable of coaching that claim?

Yes I do think that Ny would have been capable of coaching that claim.

I don't think that they

did

, but that specific thing I think is well within scum!Nydus's repertoire

Contradicting? Can you elaborate?

[nydushermain]

That's literally not at all a contradiction.

You said that you think that I can do it as scum, but you're just saying I didn't? It sounds like in the first post, you're saying I'm town because there's no way I'd coach a partner but in the second post, you're saying it's a gut read? Can you elaborate?

[nydushermain]

Okay I think I misread what you wrote in your posts.

[nydushermain]

So here's where I stand right now. I reread a little bit and I can see where grey is potential scum with ville because of the way he wanted people off the pepcho vote when the "pressure wagon" was on him. However, although I see where RC is going with the "hey dipshit, read the scum chat," do you think he hard buses right away? I think that it makes him less likely to be partners with ville and if anything, shouldn't be today's lynch. I think that TS saying that grey was most likely town due to the power busing and then considering him as scum just because of RC's read is scummy as well. Here's how I stand:

Town
{Grey}
{TS, RC}
{Fykus}
Scum

I know I put RC in the same slot as TS but I actually don't know where to put him. He's like floating around in my read list because I'm unsure of how to feel about him. On one hand, I feel like he's trying to game solve, and on the other, I have a gut feeling that he might just be scum boosting up his activity to try to win. Either way, I think that fykus is the best lynch for today.

[nydushermain]

If you lynch me then there is only 1 more chance to win the game after that. Dont waste it on me.

You're going to have to convince me that RC or TS are scum... or by a vast amount of evidence, that grey is.

[nydushermain]

nydus, response?

I honestly don't really have a response to that other than yes that is what I said, and I'm still town. I'd like to note @RC that if I were scum, I had no motivation to pull the focus off of grey. I'm just town that can read.

[nydushermain]

nydus, what do you think of the theory that the Tracker claim was coached?

If it was, Fykus is unlikely to be scum too.

I honestly haven't looked at it much. I feel like it's just a dumb thing to push on because it's just theory at this point. Can you link the quote specifically that makes ville and fykus unlikely to be partners if the tracker claim was coached?

[nydushermain]

nydus, what do you think of the theory that the Tracker claim was coached?

If it was, Fykus is unlikely to be scum too.

I honestly haven't looked at it much. I feel like it's just a dumb thing to push on because it's just theory at this point. Can you link the quote specifically that makes ville and fykus unlikely to be partners if the tracker claim was coached?

I did. Post 25.

Somebody that thinks the scum team is strategically distributed obviously doesn't know enough about newbie games to coach an ideal fakeclaim.

That... That's actually such a good point LOL

UNVOTE:

[nydushermain]

VOTE: TS

Yeah I'm okay with this.

[nydushermain]

Sorry wait. How do we know scum wasn't coached?

[nydushermain]

ALSo, I read a lot on my phone, please refrain from walls of meaningless text so I can actually read things without being at risk of carpal tunnel

[nydushermain]

Fuck it.

I'm sheeping the cow.

VOTE: nydus

What the fuck?

[nydushermain]

I don't care about RC voting but you literally said I was never scum. You're shady as fuck.

[nydushermain]

Nydus is in other ongoing games. He comes online, posts in his other games, almost never posts in this one. He is scum demoralized by his partner's lynch and trying to coast.

Uhhh first of all. Don't make blind accusations out of your ass. I'm in 2 other ongoing games and I post in them at the exact same time. Literally. When I post in one, I post in the others.

[nydushermain]

The first case wasn't me being called scummy at all by pep. RC isn't even looking to see any context. He literally just ISO searched me and just randomly pointed out things that could potentially be scummy because when you have a late game ISO, there's always going to be something -_-. For the record, pep called someone scummy for asking the mod if there was scum day chat.

[nydushermain]

RC also put in a quote that he said he town read me for in his scum case against me. Huh?

[nydushermain]

TS is safe for today. I'll take on a 1v1 even if you flip just shitty town

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RC

[nydushermain]

Also with response to your last quote, you didn't even call me scum and I noticed a contradiction in how you were calling me town. You're not actually making a case against me RC. And I think that the majority of things that you quoted with NAI regardless.

[nydushermain]

And FTR, my game plan coming in as scum isn't to question someone saying "this slot is for sure town" on me. Nor is it to say "hey these lynches that are happening for free? they're not okay"