Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Just to be clear, five votes doesn't lock anything in? I'm so bad at mech.-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Lol, I was going to ask if you were an alt, but I realised I had no basis for that thought. #dayonebellamafiatakes-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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I don't feel like anyone is trying to pocket me specifically?
I think dats' take on mala is more likely to be right, I'm low key concerned about the amount of words used to discuss mala being x2000 mala's words.-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Cool, now I basically agree with everything hero said (I didn't see it at first but yeah, the vibes are off), especially vibe with dats being a strong tr, which I think is weird for me.-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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@mer, can you expand/reword this? I feel like the question is wieirdly specific when I've been talking about 'vibes' but maybe you can re frame?In post 102, Merlyn wrote: I dunno, some of that is a reach.
I don't ness. think Hero is scum for giving the reasons but I don't agree with them
pedit: Bella, for example: you think someone was gonna use try and use a joke about flying in from the scumthread to try and prove later he had a scumread on implosion?-
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I wonder if ths is an alt? I feel there is something/weird/ about the pick of me, but I also feel like Ari has said 'things vaguely about me' that felt a bit red flag-
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I meant mainly the two posts about Ari and TSH? What I was also intending to get across was I originally thought hero's push on tsh was more weaksauce, but is liked what they were saying about the 'feel' of the posts. I also particularly agreed with what hero said about the coalition and their reads in that specific order bc it parelled mine for similar reasons.In post 136, Merlyn wrote:
yeah, I was responding to the post you made were you said you agreed with most or all of what Hero said. It surprised me that you said that bc I had just been writing a post about how some of the reasons were weaksauce. I was using the joke one as an example to ask you if you really meant it when you said you agreed with it allIn post 119, Bellaphant wrote:
@mer, can you expand/reword this? I feel like the question is wieirdly specific when I've been talking about 'vibes' but maybe you can re frame?In post 102, Merlyn wrote: I dunno, some of that is a reach.
I don't ness. think Hero is scum for giving the reasons but I don't agree with them
pedit: Bella, for example: you think someone was gonna use try and use a joke about flying in from the scumthread to try and prove later he had a scumread on implosion?-
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Also, they agreed with me about the days/Ari/mala thing, which comes up again where they said the re-read it and it kinda feels blank-ish for Ari but town for dats which I also how I feel.-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Huh, I felt like Ari low key sr me?-
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Drew, talk to me about mer?
Implo, any questions for me?-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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I find you hard to read, specifically. I think I'm pretty ok on a bunch of reads. I'm pretty sure drew is town but unsure on mer, I was tr then early but I don't feel it totally now, so I wanted someone who had a clear opinion.
I think Ari is scum.-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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VOTE: ari do the votes actually count?-
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I'm catching up but this is fineIn post 226, Hero at Heart wrote:
btw this is not intentional but the literal page 9 pagebottom is my solve which means it's perfect for a page 10 coalition, right?In post 224, Hero at Heart wrote: so right now i'm kinda happy with a datisi/hero/merlyn/bella/implosion coalition.
is there anyone who actually SR's these people?
eh, i'll wait at least 2 more days to see if there's a dramatic change...-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Drew over mer, maybe?
I have a lot of feelings about Ari, I'll be back when it's not the school run-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Ok, in hindsight I read this as being more about me than it was, Ans I was sure Ari had also mentione me off hand to dats, but I can't find it now, so my first red flag maybe wasn't there.In post 87, Aristeia wrote:
all three of your first three posts had something to do with bella and none of them really had any meaningful intent to sort her.In post 83, Hero at Heart wrote: specifically, i didn't target bella at all, i just answered a question she had. you'd have to squint hard to read that as me focusing her, especially since that's probably my only interaction with her slot. and sure, scum *could* answer the question but are you saying that town would just ignore it? that's really ??? of you.
I'm not saying town would just ignore it, I said it's something scum are eager to do. I'm quite lazy and I rarely answer basic mech questions as town but I am more likely to as mafia because it establishes an interaction touchpoint.
I think for the first half of the Game, Ari's takes felt very much about Ari's perception of the general game, rather than trying to work with the thread. Like all the words about mala: it felt like busy work and also just a fairly 'safe' thing for scum to have an opinion on. Until the last few pages, I've not massively seen them get into questioning the wider game. For example, I mentioned I thoight they sr me, wasn't follow up. I said I sr them, they havent asked why, just a general acknowledgement that they are under pressure. Contrast that to implo, who when I flagged then asked a fairly nuanced question about my question.-
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I had a soul read on the alt but I think I'm wrong.
Tbf my read on datisi is super meta as well, but also what hero was saying about just...I don't find much reason to st them? I dunno, maybe I've been lucky, or maybe I find it harder to tr datisi just by us being super different players, but in team mafia I was Sus of them by about page five and I was right *shrug*
Beginning to think implo is town.
Is there enough people that people do agree on to have not hero, Ari or mala in the coalition?
@ari, why do you think I'm town?-
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@hero, I'm not really, I'm talking about one we could agree on? I dunno, I still like dats' suggestion
My games I've replaced out and games with datisi are a weird correlation, just having gone ovw my meta. They've been scum on like a 3:1 ratio and I've had a correct read most of the time. My favourite thing just now was reading their scum ptnl from four years ago asking if I was timid BC of my personality or role pm-
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I know, I just feel like this convo happening on two levels isn't helping-
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I do t think I'm sr you, although I am more hesitant than I was. The alt thing has bothered me a fair bit, which may not be fair but is true. Also, I felt like your slot was low key becoming controversial, and I'd rather people agreed on a coalition quickly, as I feel that we get more info if we are wrong after we have...more info.
I'm tired-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Hi, I haven't read, Izzy's gone to hospital so I'm vla for a day or so! Sorry mod-
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I feel like I'd look at mer again? I think for me, I get their and Ari's perspectives least.In post 438, Hero at Heart wrote:
lol i guess i amIn post 434, implosion wrote: (i'll talk about the scum case on him in a bit but it seems like hero is particularly intransigent on him
you know what, can i ask a question?
if THS is town then who are potential scum candidates for you?
I'm not sure I strongly see ths as scum anymore anyway-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Im catching up x-
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No, I hadn't even read that page! How funny. I'm catching back up as we speak..In post 455, Doctor Drew wrote:
Your not just saying this because I just said this, right?In post 454, Bellaphant wrote:
I feel like I'd look at mer again? I think for me, I get their and Ari's perspectives least.In post 438, Hero at Heart wrote:
lol i guess i amIn post 434, implosion wrote: (i'll talk about the scum case on him in a bit but it seems like hero is particularly intransigent on him
you know what, can i ask a question?
if THS is town then who are potential scum candidates for you?
I'm not sure I strongly see ths as scum anymore anyway-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Ok, cool, I still really strongly think implo and drew are town. I really don't like mer's talking about comprise because that's just not how I see it: you should be strongly for your tree first, and then there should be a second tier, almost, of 'prob not scum " that's the compromise.
My ideal would be me/implo/Dr drew as those first strong reads, Ans then I'm more willing to compromise on a slot like Ari, where I feel it's mostly a 'gut' scum read from me: I also feel that this will get us more info.
I've gone back and forth about hero a bit, but weirdly his resposne about forgetting std is annoying town. Im still grumpy that everyone else knows the alt though!(do we even know each other? I'd care less If we didn't really have a 'history')
The fact that I've been fairly universally town read until the last few pages is interesting: are scum trying to get me replaced with them, or have I just not been here enough. Hmmm-
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Ari, would you swap mala for you?-
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I don't hate ths being in the coalition?
I can never fucking read mala, she's often not around and she's often scum when we play together-
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I hadn't quite realise show the day phase worked, I am one again shit at mech..shall I just hammer?-
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I'd need to reread but it felt like suddenly there was some pushback to me over the last few pages, when before I was equally weirdly a default in most coalitions?
Implo just bleeds town to me. They say things, and I'm like 'yep yep yep exactly '. I also liked their little question to me ages ago. Dr drew is more vibes and a bit of what hero said about me actually: I don't see anything /scum/, whilst I think I could make a case for a few people (mer, you, mala, ths, even hero).
@hero, I'm just the kind of person who likes approval it's nai-
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Like, I find it equally weird that dats said I was coalition on like page two and a lot of people went yep, fair. That's not normally how my games go (although team mafia was a bit like this: I went from a default day one tr to the scum team doing really well and me being the compromise elim day five, so maybe I'm a bit jumpy)-
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If it fails: either I'm wrong about implo (don't think so), drew (maybe??) Or then I'd relook at hero or you. Lots of info!-
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Ari,talk to me about hero?-
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..r.thst wasn't there when I pressed submit, I need to stop doing this-
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Not caught up thoughts:
Ari/hero scum.team feels very unlikely? Scum theatre is rarely scum theatre in my experience. Is there one scum in them, maybe.
Drew and implo still town.
Could be persuaded on std, low confidence reading them
Have low key read sr mer since like page 5.-
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Ugh I like hero's posting on this page and I can't work out if I'm being snowed.-
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I hate this? It feels like picking on the two most obvious players to get 'heat' and then the justification is terrible too , especially picking drew who's obv town and the not considering if he was scum then std could be town and drew wanted him replaced with his scum partner, for example.In post 583, TheHoldSteady wrote:
Just the way I start to solve things. if you can rule out one partnership it makes it more probable that there's one scum elsewhere and easier to cross out certain partners. For example, I think if STD is scum then it makes it more likely Drew is town because he was the first to suggest removing Datisi from the CoalitionIn post 579, implosion wrote:
Ari/hero scumteam would mean a lot of theater. I don't think the way the coalition came about particularly points to that; Datisi thought it was a good coalition, ari+hero were the first votes on the coalition and other people voted it up later, I don't think the way hero turned around their read on Ari is particularly s->s, etc.In post 576, TheHoldSteady wrote: Question for you all: Given the way the coalition came about, how viable do you think an Ari/Hero scumteam is?
Why is this your first thought that you wanted to ask about?
Ari/hero is not s/s
Hero/ths isn't s/s unless some horrible cross bus-
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I'm re reading from 25, snowed means fooled, hero: I sometimes feel I /want/ you to be town more than you are, but I find myself agreeing with you too much!
Didn't the hammer come after I'd already asked about the hammer? Like, that was /the/ conversation?
Page 26 incoming-
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Ok, merlyn is probably town, which helps narrow stuff down a bit.
I don't see the implosion push at all? I think in this game more than most toy need to be really confident with your trs and this is weak sauce.
Rh9 replacing in and immediately defending std just looks too scummy to be...both scum? Ugh, I thought for a sec that rh had replaced std and was defending his own slot, that's how hard their post made me double take.
I don't have any hard conclusions though.-
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UNVOTE:
Fuck,.aris 27 was super town too, it's the first thing I've seen that feels out of range?-
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In post 542, Save The Dragons wrote: ok caught up
i like bella now after 357 and recent posting
i like implo i like ari i like hero i like me, it felt right when datisi suggested it (even though he immediately suggested drew instead of bella) and it felt right when hero suggested it
i like this coalition
i think it's a winner
HEAL: std/ari/bella/hero/implo
Ok, so here std says he likes me after 'recent' posting. The posting on this page, two of my posts discuss whether I should hammer.
Than he doesn't know it's the hammer?-
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Lol no, at hero, It wasn't that page-
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I dunno, I really like thisIn post 653, Merlyn wrote: I just like implo, I don't want to vote there. I get why Drew's voting there but that doesn't mean I think he's right about it. I scumread the other two slots to varying degrees so that makes me uneasy about this wagon. I'm actually pretty happy with my current vote-
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Why would I be prodding at rh9s defense of std of he was my scum buddy?
Also, I literally asked if we could swap Ari out just before it was hammered?
Mate, you are spinning a narrative that doesn't match the facts.-
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Should we all be making a read list, or all we all locked into buddies or if ...then? I feel like it's a mistake I'm making, certainly-
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In post 234, TheHoldSteady wrote: I think Hero, Imp, Merlyn, is good, Bella is fien, but I don't really trust Ari, Dats, or Drew.In post 245, TheHoldSteady wrote: Right now what I'm thinking of is,
Hero at Heart
Merlyn
Implosion
Doctor Drew or Datisi
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Bellaphant
Malakittens
AristelaIn post 384, TheHoldSteady wrote:
how willing are you to replace ari with merlynIn post 377, Hero at Heart wrote: you know what? i am done. i am done with this meta discussion, i am done with discussing my tr of datisi, and i am done with this silly 1v1 with ari. it's not fun and it's not helping town win.
so here's what we're going to do instead. i am going to propose a coalition, and ari - please sheep it eliminate me if it fails. you have my solemn promise i won't push you (but i will be looking for scum). here's my coalition:
HEAL: ari, datisi, hero, implo, bella
i'd rather tell ari "i told you" in the postgame after we won than continue this stupid, unfun argument. or i guess if she's scum i can tell her "gg wp you tricked us all". but i don't think she's scum.
the above coalition is actually final*.
*barring extreme shenanigans like datisi claiming scum or some crazy, game changing scumslip.In post 401, TheHoldSteady wrote: I honestly am wondering now if Drew and Malakittens might be the solve. Take what I said about Drew in 206 and then Drew's sudden push to be in the coalition on page 12. Then you have Malakitten's inactivity making them a fairly unlikely candidate for the coalition at this juncture. Anyone who is a scum partner with Malakittens would have to be pressed hard to make sure they're in the coalition or else the game is over.In post 449, TheHoldSteady wrote:
I'm least certain on Datisi and Ari. I'll elaborate more on that soon but I've fallen sick and don't have the mental energy right nowIn post 427, Hero at Heart wrote: hi THS, sorry for ignoring these posts.
i've been kind of checked out from the game even though it might not look like that since i did post but i didn't actually look at anything thoroughly or try to analyze anything.
In post 395, TheHoldSteady wrote: here's the way i think this is going to go:
i think hero's thought process seems very genuine and authentic and i actually got good vibes when we had that argument pages ago. i felt like i was talking to a town, not a scum.
i think the coalition is going to be wrong, and then he's going to lead a lim on me which is also going to be wrong.
what happens beyond then is out of my controlIn post 396, TheHoldSteady wrote:
I already SAID you not being as subtle changed my viewpoint on you in 139 and I've BEEN looking at others in 188, 206, 235, 244, 245,1. if i understood correctly, your sr on me was based on perceiving me as subtly trying to ride your wagon. does me not being as subtle aa you were expecting me to be change your viewpoint on me?
2. well, have you looked at the others? what did you see?
so if you believe ari's self towncase (at least i think that's what you are implying), and think that your townread on me is good, why do you think exactly that the coalition i suggested will fail? like who out of the 5 people do you suspect? bella? implo? datisi? please elaborateIn post 397, TheHoldSteady wrote:
I can believe this.In post 276, Aristeia wrote:
i have two completed games of coalition;In post 274, Merlyn wrote: I do agree that numbers wise it just makes sense to put yourself forward for the coalition bc if you know you're town then you can only be wrong about 4 spots rather than 5. The only person who can really relax and not need to advocate for themselves here is a wolf who is pushing a partner in there. There's no point in being worried that it will make you a target later if the coalition fails, you're getting heat now anyway.
viewtopic.php?t=91245
viewtopic.php?t=89428
I am town in both
I suggested not being in coalition in both
I ended up in the coalition in both
I personally do not enjoy being in the coalition unless I'm absolutely certain my coalition is winning.
I am nowhere near that level of certainty at present and might never be.
Saying that I am mafia for not wanting to be in the coalition because all townies would want to be in the coalition and ascribing the only possible reason for someone not wanting to be in the coalition as "they are mafia who are pushing their partner in instead" is reductionist and absurd.In post 469, TheHoldSteady wrote: Started re-reading.
Ari seems better than I remembered. Asking questions I'd expect town to ask.
I don't feel very strongly about Bella being town anymore. She's played this pretty reactively.
Drew might be town because I can't think of why scum would make 168 at this point in time.
Datisi seemed town.
Merlyn I could see going either way.
HEAL: Aristella[/hurt]
HURT: Bellaphant
Can you walk me through your progression on drew, mer and me specifically? Coz what I'm seeing doesn't make a ton of sense (your read on me is the one I'm least worried about, tbf)In post 494, TheHoldSteady wrote: HURT: Merlyn
HEAL: Bellaphant
I'm not completely convinced that Bellaphant won't break this but we do need to save time for phase two, and I think this is about as good as it might get.-
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I agree with implo, again-
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728 specifically.-
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Im going to read dats with ths iso lager-
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Are you just not going to respond to me?-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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Three posts on the last page I'm expecting a response to.-
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It's fairly obvious I don't understand why you think I'm scum, mainly because you ...you know, you won't talk to me?
Your progression on drew makes no sense, therfor I think it's scummy..-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
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No, I'm asking you to engage with me, so we can sort each other.
I don't get the draw thing. It shiikdnt be massive time and effort to explain, it's ...your read.
Like, here's the tldr on my confusing Ari read:
The dats/Ari game opening felt scummy
I thought it was weird Ari didn't respond to my.sxum read and I felt like their read on me didn't make sense
They responded to that in a fairly.+town way
The middle section with hero really threw me, I felt like they were a bit agenda driven
I've liked their posting more since the coalition failed, they seem more solve focused.
Conclusion: they might be town, maybe it was the dars but of the early game that made me feel weird-
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People taking about me without engaging with me always pisses me off. Recently it's actually been the thing that caught me two scum, so yeah, it is a red flag-
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Ths coming at me without much reason feels weird from town or scum tho?-
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Std, rh9 and the are all.making fucking weird choices without much explanation, they can't all be scum-
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- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 7116
- Joined: February 5, 2015
Coz we are running out of reasons the coalition failed if it's not std.
I'm obv town, hero would always say hero is town, hero strong trs implo (I think? I do), so it's almost poe by that point? Weird q-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7116
- Joined: February 5, 2015
It's why ...Ari or mer, forgot who, said that the people off coalition need to be louder: we already have one less suspect, sothe peeps on coalition are looking for 1 or horrendously 2 in four. Add in one lock town read and it's a 50/50 choice, almost.
This isn't true for people off coalition-
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Bellaphant Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7116
- Joined: February 5, 2015