Mae’n ddrwg gen i.In post 18, geraintm wrote:i am hopeful of a 2-1 Welsh win
VOTE: geraintm
Not the vote - the post. It is an attempt at a fake dumb tell. Are you trying to get a read on the author of post 6 from the RVS posting here?In post 22, skitter30 wrote:@val why is the vote a scumclaim ?
Easy to miss in general? Sure, maybe.In post 33, Herta wrote:The IC post would be easy to miss for me
In post 126, skitter30 wrote:Like ig i'm kinda confused how kittytacky can start off liking 20 and then move to disliking it when other people find it scummy without scoliosis posting anything in between
In post 213, skitter30 wrote:1. They didnt post again at all tho, why are u treating that like they were ignoring you?
This has been objectively wrong on each occasion you've said it previously; and it remains wrong; but just to be clear - you are claiming you posted these in the belief that Scoliosis hasn't posted anyone of consequence since #20; and the "obviously town" read you gave yesterday was based entirely on post 20, and you didn't see that was the source of the church wagon you said you disliked?In post 214, skitter30 wrote:I think it's kinda weird to come to a totally different conclusion abt the same post at that point in the game when the pkayer in question hadnt posted anything at all in between
This:In post 237, skitter30 wrote:What's 'objectively wrong' ?
In post 126, skitter30 wrote:i don't get how he lost the initial townread so fast, especially since it partially seems based on scoliosis 'not ressponding to kittytacky's question'when he hasnt posted at all since 20
In post 126, skitter30 wrote:Like ig i'm kinda confused how kittytacky can start off liking 20 and then move to disliking it when other people find it scummywithout scoliosis posting anything in between
In post 213, skitter30 wrote:1.They didnt post again at all tho, why are u treating that like they were ignoring you?
I agree you can find someone town and not support a wagon they start, but if you actually believe what you are saying here, have you read #40/41 or not?In post 214, skitter30 wrote:I think it's kinda weird to come to a totally different conclusion abt the same post at that point in the game whenthe pkayer in question hadnt posted anything at all in between
No, me neither.In post 243, skitter30 wrote:I ... don't know what i was thinking
If the suggestion here is Scoliosis is the former and skitter is the later, and that explains the disconnect; then I would be grateful if someone would share with the class what I'm supposed to be reading in that book because not only am I not currently seeing a reason to TR Scoliosis, I am scumreading that slot enough that its colouring my view of those slots that are expressing townreads there.In post 249, Ydrasse wrote:tbf some people are open books and some take like a phd and three days to have a hint of alignment
I suppose this is the problem I have. I'm not content to handwave the glaring issue with it as 'well, there must be a reason' and declare it a town post.In post 257, skitter30 wrote:I don't know why he didnt mention my 7 or kittytacky's slew of posts, or 13, but i see why 17 and 19 are grouped together. The post is written from a coherent, fairly nuanced, pov given the fact that we were literally on post 20, and was trying to move the game along. It's a town post. I don't think neglecting to mention 7 or 13 means he's being arbitrary, i'm assuming there's some reason he had for considering them to be in a different category
I don't think I'm made a secret of what my problem with it is. Fake-reads, or more likely a fake-dumbtell with respect to Toto. We STILL don't have an answer as to if they did or did not realise Toto was IC at the point of posting #20. You say that it's easily missed, because you missed it, but I don't buy someone making a try-hardy post misses that, particularly when that slew of KT posts that were ignored specifically drew attention to Toto as IC. Maybe I can see someone not engaging enough to see the IC announcement also skimming through the early KT posts and not seeing the significance of that - but I don't see the same person being responsible for a "coherent, fairly nuanced" post belying a motivation to try and start finding scum also makes that mistake. You are correct in that I am applying a different standard to Sco, but I think there is more than enough justification for doing so.skitter30 wrote:Val is your argument for scoliosis-scum that 20 contains fake reads in an attempt to seem try-hard-y, and that it's fake for failing to look at other parts of the game that you consider more AI, and for not applying thr same standard to every rvs post?
Okay; what is the purpose of these posts, then, if not to conform with some notion of how frivolous and carefree your Ydra persona plays that wasn't evident in the church one?In post 260, Ydrasse wrote:i literally had 0 motivation to play up until the moment i decided to revert to my normal playstyle lol
it's not the first time i've done it
Ydrasse wrote:My cat is laying on me
I realise I might not be the intended audience, so help me understand.Ydrasse wrote:He made me into a biscuit help
A simple yes or no will do the job for now, Scoliosis.In post 263, Val89 wrote:We STILL don't have an answer as to if they did or did not realise Toto was IC at the point of posting #20.
And yet; I am the only one voting her.In post 267, Scoliosis wrote:Nah I'll back you up on having a pocket scum read on skitter.
OK, thank you. So you also did have an opinion on KTs posting you just didn't share, than has now changed with that realisation?In post 270, Scoliosis wrote:No, I had no idea, and it does change my opinion on the page 1 posts because I have seen scum vote the ic as a joke on page 1 before. My main motivation behind 20 was to choose suspects based on posts I have actually seen scum make on page 1.
Fair enough.In post 272, Ydrasse wrote:i know the point of mafia is to think a lot about stuff but this is just Me
mafia is a social thing for me as much as it is a game and so i like to post sometimes without it being game related
That analysis is correct, but all it's done if left me in a spot where I really don't know how to move forwards.In post 593, Scoliosis wrote:whereas it seemed with val that they were actually reconsidering their position.
Yes, unfortunately, you can.In post 572, geraintm wrote:[i have not been very engaged so far this game, can you tell?]
I have seen some hints scattered around that indicate perhaps those initial thoughts aren't to be trusted with geraintm in particular. I'm feeling a touch on the lazy side, so if someone who thinks there are meta reasons to be reading geraintm differently then pointers will be gratefully received.In post 303, Herta wrote:Actually what is this your I'm an inept clown scum game? I've seen that before.
Right about what part?In post 651, Herta wrote:Well you're right re geraintm and it took me a minute to think about it and I voted him out of frustration more than anything.
That's the sort of thing I was looking for, and if you have a specific game in mind I would be grateful.In post 651, Herta wrote:He does, however, know how to use that as a scum tool -- I have seen him explicitly state it in scum PTs.
Perhaps; but I don't see this is as one of those games.In post 689, Dannflor wrote:I don't really have any problem flippng a consensus null read (and in fact that is probably optimal play in some games) but I raise my eyebrows at people strongly scum reading the geraintm slot
In post 655, unwnd wrote:I think I would be fine ending the day somewhere on Herta/Geran/Scol
@unwnd: What's the distinction you are making with Sco that puts him in a different category with skitter?
Understood. So, you aren't actually fine with ending the day on Scol, despite 655, then?In post 704, unwnd wrote:Scol is just the way he is. Everything I disliked about our exchanges sums up to him being an asshat, and asshats can still be town. Do I think he's town for being an asshat? Absolutely not. I don't want to excuse his behavior because I'd be really bitter if he were scum and started to think he fooled me by some theatrics. I'm not gonna let him think he's easily won my favor by being unapologetically himself.
Nevermind, I found it. Would still like clarification as to what you think I am right about though? You think gera is LHF and regret the vote there?In post 688, Val89 wrote:In post 651, Herta wrote:
He does, however, know how to use that as a scum tool -- I have seen him explicitly state it in scum PTs.
That's the sort of thing I was looking for, and if you have a specific game in mind I would be grateful.
Is that your actual read on Scol? More likely town than scum?In post 804, geraintm wrote:why would i want o vote for someone today i think is mor elikely to be town than now?
Okay. Gotcha.In post 816, geraintm wrote:i am of the opinion that people who are run up and/or voted out day 1 are more likely to be town than scum
I dislike that it's taken going into hammer range to drag this out of you. I'm also not convinced you don't know what anti-spew is given I've seen discussions on spew with you without challenge when looking at previous games; but that's a start.In post 867, geraintm wrote:I don't have you as scum though, I think I have you as town leaning, as scum you would not burn youtself this much trying to eliminate me. I'm not worth the effort.
I would consider doing so now then - I was just looking at where a cheeky hammer could come from if I vote geraintm myself here; but it occurs to me that self-hammer shenanigans are possible if I do (and might have been the motivation behind IVs unvote, in which case my previous question was a bit hasty).In post 872, Toto wrote:Yeah, I need to release my mod confirmed info before someone gets hammered, very important.
@Scoliosis: What was geraintm's position as you saw it when you wrote this?In post 743, Scoliosis wrote:Yes, after I posted 515, which explains where I first started to ruminate that geraintm might be scum, geraintm posted 572 which is exactly the kind of post I expected scum to make from his position. Even without already having built a cogent world view containing scum geraintm, I would have scumread him or anyone else for posting 572.
I'm sorry, but I can't see geraintm's play coming from town here anymore; unless he is consciously and deliberately throwing this town game in return for an easier time of it in their next scum game - which frankly is an absolutely shitty thing to do to those of us playing this one. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken, but I didn't see a refusal to claim being a feature of his D1 play previously and this in particular is a game where we have an IC hinting, if not explicitly claiming by 1075, that they are also an informed IC with info that can help evaluate the veracity of role-claims.In post 1064, KittyTacky wrote:I defend Gera because this behavior is NAI for Gera and he's more likely town than scum here.
In post 1084, geraintm wrote:As I have said, I am not claiming anything.
In post 1082, geraintm wrote:Posting once a day is reasonable activity.
I think it's also clear that gera is laying out in advance his game plan here. I am starting to wonder, in fact, if gera WANTS to be limmed here - scum could just always claim VT here.In post 1080, geraintm wrote:Weekends I am around less often, so don't think just because I am motnposting it is deliberate..
How many scum do you suppose are in this game?In post 1096, geraintm wrote:@val I think I have expressed the thought previously that players being run up day 1 to force claims is bad. It just means that at thr end of day 1 scum not only get a free kill, but get info about possible roles that town have. It is just bad eV for town in my opinion for a series of town roles to be flushed out so early
You will have to forgive me for believing that if you are town you areIn post 1094, geraintm wrote:I am not trying to do badly in this game for any reason. That goes against the rules doesn't it? Everyone should always play to win.
I don't want to lose. I don't want to be eliminated.
Are you actually going to sit there and tell me you thing it is likely town!gera actually thinks it is in towns interest not to claim here?In post 1101, innocentvillager wrote:There is a very nonzero chance we are just wasting our time on two town wagons and scum is sitting back laughing but whatever
Except that is exactly what you are doing, isn't it?In post 1207, geraintm wrote:I am giving no one a blank cheque to say "we had to vote them because they were stubbon" as a GOOJFC.
Just so we are clear, my answer to this is "Yes"; at least if it is an actual role claim that has a chance of jiving with Toto's info, and long enough for Toto to give thoughts on if we should be limming you or not.In post 1178, geraintm wrote:any claim from me would be enough for you to unvote?
I disagree - I think there is good chance this does turn out to be a scum flip.In post 1215, innocentvillager wrote:geraint is almost certainly town and my vote on him is 100% policy at this point
Wrong.In post 1225, KittyTacky wrote:like sure scum has no reason to do this
EBWODPIn post 1227, Val89 wrote:I think it's worth pointing out that none of those suggested counterwagons seem particularly realistic, and if they were, they risk forcing another claim.
Not sure what you are getting at, here.In post 1229, innocentvillager wrote:Show me a game where scum actually did this
By Jove, they've cracked it! The scumsolve is Me, IV, KT, Toto and Ydrasse; we were all just too smooth brained to see it!In post 1267, geraintm wrote:i really dont think the push for an explciit claim from me comes from town
I'm another one questioning my read on IV. I'm still fine with that flip, and I have no problem with IV deciding to policy that, but the continued characterisation of that being an "obviously town" flip has me wondering. It was not obvious to me, at all, and that means either IV has a much, much better grasp of mafia that I do, or it's much more obvious when you have a pre-knowledge of gera's alignment, and that's bleeding in to these sort of posts.In post 1282, innocentvillager wrote:Toto is alive and geraint obviously flipped tonw
I thought about this since I was getting scumpings from both, but, as I said yesterday, I'm not convinced they make sense partnered. As well as the hard defence, there was also this:In post 1316, KittyTacky wrote:It... might be skitter maybe? The defense was a bit clumsy on a re-skim of the relevant posts. But the question is if scum would hard defend a partner so early.
If they are both scum, I've just voted skitters partner, and I have to believe that skitter jumps straight on my wagon right after there scumbuddy, on page 1. I know it doesn't become a wagon in the end, but I don't suppose either of skitter nor Sco would have known that at the time - and I suppose a hard defence of Sco might make more sense after doing that in a sort of 'in for a penny, in for a pound' sort of way - but I know when I've rolled scum, I've been much more reluctant to do any thing that might possibly tie me to a scum buddy early on when you know town are going to picking over every little interaction on the first page or two looking for a foothold.
The scum motivation would be to appear town. When I roll scum, I know my gameplay is almost always to mimic my town game as closely as possible. Sometimes advancing the scum wincon means deviating from that, but that's always the starting point.In post 1320, innocentvillager wrote:What is the scum motivation for me to cal geraintm obviously town then policy him
It might be NAI but I don’t see how you can think it’s scum indicative since there’s no motivation for me to do that
In post 1307, unwnd wrote:In summary, scum will play to survival instincts and I think Herta is still just trying to get through phases. His contribution is lacking and his weird phrasing and timings bother me more than think he's just some independent townie out in space.
These are both good points; good enough I can sheep you on Herta even if I'm sure how to read you myself. Like KT, I think Sco is probably most likely to flip scum, but I see your point particularly while I have pings of doubt particularly around if he was TMId by skitter early yesterday before the gera wagon diverted attention. Lets see how Sco acts today, and in the meantime, where this goes.In post 1307, unwnd wrote:3) I think about my own 'Scol's silence is telling' thought and that seems potent. KT going back to Scol though? Do I really want to deal with an obstinate player twice over. Gera died being stubborn and Scol is going to be even more stubborn. This is not me saying I changed my mind on Scol but I just feel like maybe it's a bit of a waste.