Newbie 1876 - Game Over!

[GuerillaWoo]

VOTE: Trinity for taking my top spot


Hey everyone.

[GuerillaWoo]

Here's a lesson I learned: don't town read newbies on that basis alone. Everyone's new and everyone expresses different degrees of confidence. If someone's playing VI past the first week, odds are they're a good lynch.

Contribute, make sure people don't observe from the sidelines too much, and think hard about your reads. Take your time with it. We have two weeks and it'd be good to use almost all of it.

[GuerillaWoo]

Another word for try-harding is LAMIST.

[GuerillaWoo]

Guys, this bit of advice I'm gonna give is super important: BE HONEST ABOUT MAKING MISTAKES. Don't rationalize around them. Don't justify them. Look at your behavior honestly and critically, especially in how it'll appear to both town and scum. It's more important that you let town players know this than it is to win an argument.

I have half a mind to vote nonny cuz of those two posts up there.

[GuerillaWoo]

Nonny I'm tone reading you as guarded and defensive.

[GuerillaWoo]

I would honestly policy lynch 2.7's mindset

[GuerillaWoo]

What does that mean?

[GuerillaWoo]

I would honestly policy lynch 2.7's mindset

I wouldn't really call it a mindset. And it's definitely not worth policy lynching.

We lynch two townies the first two days, we're now at lylo. His mindset, which is "misslynching now is fine because we have time", becomes a defense. It was all well and good. He's already blending into the background, it is a detriment to town.

I didn't read it as "I wanna misslynch people, oops scumslip". It's the preemptive distancing from bad decisions followed by reaffirming his vote for a player that can't really be read yet. Nonny is objectively null rn and we all know it.

[GuerillaWoo]

Admission into town slotting and lynchpool. Does that mean "I read you as town and scum" or what

[GuerillaWoo]

Yes

Aight, verb threw me off. Anyway, you think I'm nonny's scum partner cuz you don't like policy lynches. Despite my casting shade at her tone. Like I'm gonna bus on page two then talk about another player's sketchy post to establish associatives? In case I'm D1 lynched when this is the first time someone's mentioned me by name outside of RVS?

Try again.

[GuerillaWoo]

You misread that. But good to know that I'm on your list? Nothing I can help you with bud. And I don't wanna do a D1 post-RVS back and forth tunnel again, so lemme know if you have some new info for me to answer.

[GuerillaWoo]

Here's a lesson I learned: don't town read newbies on that basis alone. Everyone's new and everyone expresses different degrees of confidence. If someone's playing VI past the first week, odds are they're a good lynch.

Contribute, make sure people don't observe from the sidelines too much, and think hard about your reads. Take your time with it. We have two weeks and it'd be good to use almost all of it.

Another word for try-harding is LAMIST.

Guys, this bit of advice I'm gonna give is super important: BE HONEST ABOUT MAKING MISTAKES. Don't rationalize around them. Don't justify them. Look at your behavior honestly and critically, especially in how it'll appear to both town and scum. It's more important that you let town players know this than it is to win an argument.

I have half a mind to vote nonny cuz of those two posts up there.

1) Why are you talking about game theory so much? 2) And as a newbie. 3) See this looks a lot like someone trying to make it seem like they are posting things, without ever actually saying anything.

4) You almost seem to throw some shade at the end of that last post towards nonny. What do you see in the 2 posts you mentioned that is a mistake that they aren't owning up to? 5) Why do you think that you see something there in a more serious way than I do? 6) You would think that if anyone had a problem with what they posted and was going to throw a vote that way it would be me, but I haven't even talked about that yet.

1) Those are part of my first five posts. There is nothing of substance one can offer in RVS.
2) My being a newbie means I shouldn't be able to understand game theory? I acknowledge that I'm inexperienced, but I don't think it's bad form to offer advice. You don't have to listen to me.
3) It was RVS.
4) She either willfully or unintentionally read scumminess into a blatant joke. I've seen it happen before from town, though.
5) Uh what. Is this an ego thing rn, cuz like I barely know you and I'm not interested.
6) Two people can behave independently. I wasn't defending you.

I gotta say your tone reads as purposefully aggravating as an attempt to pressure me to see what shakes. That can go lamist or earnestly town. But it is not helpful to town at all. My concern is you're gonna start jumping between read to read with this overeager pressure and dominate the thread.

[GuerillaWoo]

Can you describe what intuits to you that I'm town? I feel like I haven't actually said anything AI.

[GuerillaWoo]

Can you describe what intuits to you that I'm town? I feel like I haven't actually said anything AI.

If you were actually town, why would you ask this question? This seems a strange question to ask.

Scum will try to buddy you

[GuerillaWoo]

Ok I'm actually back to scumreading nonny. Being self-deprecating as a gameplay defense never goes over well for me. Always reads like dodging.

It's VOTE: nonny for me

[GuerillaWoo]

Ok I'm actually back to scumreading nonny. Being self-deprecating as a gameplay defense never goes over well for me. Always reads like dodging.

It's VOTE: nonny for me

Starting to think you just read any thing I say in a negative light, even with the added emoticons.

I read everything in a negative light. Once you get duped in this game you realize people will actually go to extents to fuck with you.

[GuerillaWoo]

But am I wrong here, like what's her post up there appealing to other than sympathy?

[GuerillaWoo]

Ok I’m changing votes. Thinking more about brassherald, he seemed to be a bit annoyed early in, and I firstly was suspicious of this. Now though I think he wouldn’t have done that if he was scum. Nonny on the other hand, is coming across as more suspicious by being self-deprecating, as someone else mentioned.

As for numbers, I think he is Bri g a bit naive. It could be deliberate, to try to throw us off, but I don’t think so at this point. So

UNVOTE: brassherald

VOTE: nonny

Why is self-deprecation suspicious? How is being light-hearted or charismatic more deserving of a vote than irritability? The latter shows a distinct lack of confidence.

[GuerillaWoo]

You didn't respond to his point at all.

[GuerillaWoo]

Nvm I misread what he thought the slip was. Still, saying the reason you put someone at L-2 is cuz you didn't think the scumteam would hammer is very slip-like and there's some circular reasoning going on there that's evidently not a real explanation. Are you still voting for brass? Who are your scumreads?

Like, you just created this weird logical maze rationalizing away your own assumption that you were being scumread for putting someone at L-2. That's diversionary. There's the underlying appeal to being new: "I do not understand why I'm being scumread, is it cuz I did the thing someone else did??". Then there's the reason for the vote in the first place. Bins says you can pressure players with votes and then you announce your vote is only a pressure attempt. You instantly deflated that pressure. Then there's asking whether Brass' vote on you is genuine, like you're trying to gauge whether you should be concerned but in an underhanded way trying to delegitimize said vote.

It's odd behavior and there's this underlying need to avoid blame here. That's what it all amounts to. Preemptive avoidance coupled with active avoidance.

It's simple. Do you want brass lynched or not? Why or why not?

[GuerillaWoo]

I think there's at least one mafia between 2.7, nonny, and formerfish.

2.7 for reasons I just wrote out
Nonny I'm tone reading as guarded and careful
Fish came in strong and has been mostly absent since. Not a fan of people coming in, kicking up dust, then checking out while we deal with it

[GuerillaWoo]

Oh sorry, forgot to mention Trinity for reasons I'd rather not state until he responds

[GuerillaWoo]

I'll be around this weekend. I've had a lot going on this week and I'm trying to get my life right.

Don't you worry Woo, with a face like that how can I stay away from you for long?

Please, Woo is my father, just call me Guerrilla.

(Hope your family's ok)

[GuerillaWoo]

Nonny what do you think of 2.7?

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah that's just textbook non-committal bud. What do you think about Nonny?

[GuerillaWoo]

Also, what is the appropriate amount of time you think brass, or anyone else, should've waited before voting for you/scum?

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah he challenged her and she backed off immediately. He implied that Trinity asked him the same question and she never actually checked that he asked a different question. Really really not great

[GuerillaWoo]

UNVOTE:

Considering posting intent to hammer on 2.7 now. Change my mind.

[GuerillaWoo]

Hey, sorry for my absence, hitting the time where judges and other attorneys want to get shit done so that they can go on summer vacation.

Yeah he challenged her and she backed off immediately. He implied that Trinity asked him the same question and she never actually checked that he asked a different question. Really really not great

Who's "he"?

As for Numbers McInteger, I literally think you scum slipped and your explanation was pretty shitty. Plus you were not looking so hot before your scum slip. Plus, the appeal to emotion in 139 is so gross, I might have just thrown up a little in my mouth (Not really, but it's not comical otherwise). So, jumping a bit too quickly on a scum slip is just not a thing, to me, but you do you as your partner tries to help you come up with good explanations for your bad play in your mafia PT.

You.

[GuerillaWoo]

A and B-ish. Posting intent to hammer is less a threat and more an acceleration of play. You're essentially saying "I will end the day barring unforeseen circumstances, so make your farewell or the case against you". I'm threatening you with that game state.

I wish we could at least see D1 through a week cuz I got no clue who your scum partner could be, and I'm not liking how little activity's going on here. But I cannot see a world in which you're town. You're poorly making these little attempts at likeability now that you're L-1. No one cares that you made a long post, dude. The math joke comes off as desperation.

Here's my question: do you think you're a good lynch? Ignore your own survival instinct here with any "of course I wouldn't lynch myself" retorts.

Or do you think you're an easy lynch? If you were, why's it easy? Which scummy player do you think is taking advantage here?

[GuerillaWoo]

You skipped the first half of that question. Also lol @ D1 vagur "PR" claim. It feels like you're playing some very straightforward scum defenses. Legit have no problem ending the day early now.

[GuerillaWoo]

I think he was trying to fake a townslip lol.


For the record I am totally cool lynching this particular PR claim. No part of me buys it.

For anyone that's played with him before: was 2.7 this scattered as town? Did he make this many appeals to being a noob?

2.7, link me to your past games, be it on this site or elsewhere.

[GuerillaWoo]

Jesus I hardly noticed this part of his defense

"I still contend that if 3 townies vote for someone, it is just as stupid for both scum to vote for the target whether the target is scum, requiring a self-vote, or the target being town, which is an instant giveaway no matter what."

Yeah I'm sorry, I'm liking Nonny unvoting and suspecting 2.7 immediately after his claim. Right now I don't wanna vote for her at all.

I have no problems lynching a PR claim. Read his posts on the last page. They're scummy in tone, content, reasoning, tactic, and intent.

Tone: constantly defensive but never, ever actually gets aggressive. He makes appeals to his scumread ffs.
Content: he's still explaining that one post about L-2. Good grief.
Reasoning: see above quote
Tactic: dat D1 roleclaim absent intent to hammer.
Intent: consider that he roleclaimed outta desperation but is not at all acting like he's town and about to die. He's not making loud requests to pursue this or that on D2. Doesn't seem like it's even crossed his mind. The desperation just reads as feigned.

I'm VOTE: 2.7. Let's see how y'all react to him being

L-1.

IMO no one should counterclaim, though. If you're a PR, keep it to yourself. 2.7 is either town doctor and dead on N1, or it's a fakeclaim and he's trying to get you both to claim.

[GuerillaWoo]

DO NOT HAMMER WITHOUT POSTING INTENT

.

[GuerillaWoo]

The only past game is Newbie 1872.

Also, keep in mind that I was not attacked as strongly in that game. Really, I just got over excited and then over defensive, and I should not have. I was not like that in 1872 since I was a vanilla townie.

Also, I thought we were supposed to not lynch PR claims unless someone counter claims.

So you admit that your playstyle's different? Cuz I just skimmed your ISO in that game and yeah, it was different af my dude. Why are you preempting a meta read on you?

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah, I agree with the fact that 2.7 said that there could be one PR is pretty sus. I really don't like this claim.

Also, I thought we were supposed to not lynch PR claims unless someone counter claims.

Ugh, this reads so so scummy to me.

It tells me he hasn't read the setup info here but not much else. Maybe he's just a dumb PR player and couldn't care less what possible setups mafia has and just townslipped, or he's faking a townslip. Either way, agreed: do not like.


However, to be fair, having read a bit of his previous game, which is his first & only on the site, that setup had possibilities of only one PR as well.

[GuerillaWoo]

Also speaking as someone who's faked a townslip as a town PR, it's all WIFOM.

[GuerillaWoo]

Glad to hear it bud.

[GuerillaWoo]

Also, we are not lynching a pr claim today. Anyone who pushes that is bad and they should feel bad. If he isn't a pr then we will probably know tomorrow. If he is then he probably does tonight. We are not doing the scums job for them.

Anyone who feels differently can fight me.

I'll take you up on that fight. If I were scum right now and he was town, I'd leave him alone N1. Kill one of the townies on his wagon and go after anyone who said not to lynch him. If scum can push a misslynch today, leaving him alive guarantees they end up in LyLo. It's a pretty obvious play. Plus they'd know who the doctor is so they'll be looking for clues as to who he thinks is valuable.

If he's scum and we lynch him tomorrow, it gives his partner plenty of time to crumb a bus. We have no real associatives right now, I don't see a way in which we'd lynch his partner on D1.

If we lynch him today, we'd have a great chance at getting scum on D1. Me, brass, and Nonny become conf!town. The odds of lynching an actual townie are pretty high D1. We'd also protect actual PRs from counterclaiming.

And if he's town, well, it's like you said, we did scum's job for em and we try again on D2. But I don't wanna spend 28 days wondering whether he fake claimed on D1 and we were all too afraid to press him.

[GuerillaWoo]

I'd rather we risk lynching a doctor to get scum than we out our two PRs to cc the worst claim ever.

My vote's still on 2.7.

[GuerillaWoo]

Bins if you end up being his partner at least then we'll know where he got the D1 roleclaim idea, won't we

[GuerillaWoo]

I'm only saying claim if you ARE a doctor. Don't CC if you can't actual prove the claim as false.

Fair enough. Doubt we'll get that CC, odds seem slim.

[GuerillaWoo]

Skygazer: I made a post before about 2.7's 98, it does seem an odd statement, especially seeing that scum does have someone to talk to and possible guide them.

Currently I'm still scum lean on 2.7 as well. Hypothetically if someone CC doc, we lynch 2.7, and the CC doc is alive tomorrow then day 2 is wasted on WIFOM? Maybe it's not a good play, but isn't that a possible scenario were scum could buss (am i using that right?) their partner in an effort to make it to lylo? Seeing as there is no guarantee that we even have a doc in set-up.

I'm hesitant to even respond to the multiple people saying I was "self deprecating", what I said about being a perfectionist was not meant to be self deprecating. I asked a question, received an answer, and responded to the answer. I did not phrase it as "woah is me, poor me", merely stated a fact and noted I'd try to lighten up since I'm just a serious person. This is the last I want to post about my personality, if you see it as scumread so be it, I feel like I've explained where I was coming from enough, either you see it as genuine or you don't.

The definition of self-deprecating to me is that it isn’t about “woe is me, poor me”, but is about putting yourself down to appear humble and therefore a nice person. And so then I ask, why do you need to make us think you’re a nice person?

I never said it was a negative, that is your own connotation. Do with it what you will.

This explanation I have nothing against, feels legit and I respect knowing how you read things yourself. The part that I don't get is why Trinity is sheeping, almost every post from her is just following another player, like in post 122 (how do we link to posts?), with time can find more examples as well.

Yes, you’re right I’ve probably mostly replied to previous posts as I’m still having probelms figuring out how to reply to earlier posts and do quoting properly. So it’s easier just to reply to something and follow on from what was previously said. Also, I’ve been trying to be active, but haven’t always been sure what to say, so again it’s easier just to follow on from an existing topic. I’m sure I’ll get better as the game goes on. I’ve changed my view now to descending rather than ascending, so that will probably help too.

So then, what is your current take on the 2.7 discussion going on? Seeing as that's our main concern currently, it'd be good for every player to weigh in.

Nah. If we lynch one scum on D1/D2 we delay LyLo by a lot. Scum planning on a quick LyLo wouldn't bus without prompt from town. They'd want two misslynches on D1/D2.

Meaning if 2.7 is scum fakeclaiming doc, their partner has hopped off his wagon or was never on it. We get one scum today we end up in LyLo on D4, assuming it's all misslynches from there.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah real talk, thred's ded

[GuerillaWoo]

The fact that 2.7 hasn't been back here since the claim is not at all making me doubt my read on him. Stirred the shit and walked out. Better for him as scum to lay low while we argue among ourselves. Sigh.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah it comes off as 1) an insight into game meta from a player that's been leaning into the VI role, especially when challenged, and 2) An underhanded attempt at forcing his own immunity.

[GuerillaWoo]

I'm willing to bet scum is on damage control right now and that's why we haven't heard from E2.7

VOTE: E

I think that's L-1

This is a bad post

[GuerillaWoo]

I'm willing to bet scum is on damage control right now and that's why we haven't heard from E2.7

VOTE: E

I think that's L-1

This is a bad post

OK...

how

is this post "bad", Guerilla?

We ask you the questions here. Are you gonna pretend you're scum reading me now? Cuz that's a convenient 180 from the post directly before that.

[GuerillaWoo]

I'm willing to bet scum is on damage control right now and that's why we haven't heard from E2.7

VOTE: E

I think that's L-1

This is a bad post

It is? Why?

Jumps on a wagon after low activity as an extension of another player's rationale. It's discomforting cuz I'm not getting a sense of how you see 2.7

[GuerillaWoo]

Actually no you posted on that same page lol. Sorry bud. I'm quitting smoking right now so I'm not at my sharpest.

[GuerillaWoo]

I’m leaning towards E2.7 and nonny being both scum. He is being unnecessarily defensive of her and she is looking like she is telling him what to do, like build a defence, and giving possible explanations for some of his posts.

Scum have their own private thread.

[GuerillaWoo]

You had better reads than that in your last game. Why aren't you looking for scum?

[GuerillaWoo]

UNVOTE: cuz I'm getting cold feet.

Is it really, really strange that I'm hoping to god 2.7 is town and that he gets killed N1. Feels like this entire claim destroyed town's trajectory. I both don't want to know that I led the wagon on a doctor and I can't imagine the WIFOM we're all gonna go through if he stays alive until D2.

Not sure what I want to do but I'm uncomfortable keeping him at L-1. How about instead of hammering him within the next couple of days we just spend time scumhunting? Cuz I only have Leans and nulls at this point.

VOTE: Trinity

Because:

You still have not answered what you think of the role claim.

And because her only two reads were on the two biggest wagons at the point she gave her reads.

You do realise this is my first game? I thought that’s what I was meant to be commenting on.

Don't worry about what you're meant to do. I kept getting scumread my first game cuz of this, and it wasn't until I just forgot about my own inexperience that I started making legit plays. Might take you a while but honestly, no one's"meant to" be doing everything.

[GuerillaWoo]

So I don't know about you guys, but I do a lot of my best thinking on the john. So as I'm sitting here I have this thought:

We might be better off killing 2.8 today no matter what.

I know. I know. That sounds kinda crazy, right? My question to you all is this, is it?

Say he is town. I as scum would not kill him tonight. I would leave him alive because tomorrow when he's not dead it's almost a free mislynch right there for them. Also, I would probably no kill for the simple fact that as the towndoc he could pick one of the scum team to protect, which would in effect clear that scum player when town2.8 is killed and flips green.

Now from the flip side. If 2.8 is scum I would probably no kill as well. It would ratchet up the wifom to unbelievable levels on not only himself but also on whoever he "protected."

Thoughts (I suggest rereading this while sitting on a toilet, it might make more sense that way)?

Hey this is my argument :p

[GuerillaWoo]

Why's everyone using the word protocol all of a sudden. Wonder if that's worth looking into. :')

Bins can you explain to me what these "protocols" are and why they're so unique in this game and why on top of that these unique "protocols" would cause a townie, specifically a PR, to not only freak out and arrive at everyone's scum-dar but on top of that to meekly claim PR then doc.

Because this is an unnervingly particular scenario and the word "protocol" is vague.

[GuerillaWoo]

I don't think he's at L-1 anymore.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yah y'know what, let's Leroy Jenkins this and put it to bed. The WIFOM's gonna murder me and I'm low on nicotine.

VOTE: 2.7

[GuerillaWoo]

Relax, I haven't hammered yet, I just stated that I intend to.

Guerilla, how is quitting going? I'm in the same boat as of today.

I'm smoking now so, terribly. Still, one in three days isn't awful considering I'm a chain smoker.

Good for you bud, good choice. If you need tips lemme know cuz I've gone through this a bunch and I know how tough it can be.

[GuerillaWoo]

What part about me catching up after getting back from Paris so wait 24 hours is so hard for you to understand? Not everyone has weighed in yet. There's still other players in the game I want to talk about.

Fair

UNVOTE:

[GuerillaWoo]

I'll look that book up.

It's easy for me to find smoking disgusting when I'm smoking, but after three days when the cravings kick into fifth gear it's really just about stopping the confusion and time dilation. For me that's the worst part, not the burning lungs or headaches, it's where your brain turns dumb and time goes slow.

The replacements are so great though. I stopped the patches cuz I felt like I had to go off nicotine entirely and I was back smoking. My biggest advice is don't stop the patches and don't feel like any of this is an issue of willpower.

[GuerillaWoo]

Anyway we went off on a tangent here lol, let us know when you're ready with those reads Bins

[GuerillaWoo]

Is that it, bins? The posts we held off for?

[GuerillaWoo]

Cuz I just went through your ISO and if 2.7 flips red you're probably my #1 pick for his partner.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah my read of her is based entirely on her constant defense of 2.7, like almost every post of her's contained some small attempt at alleviating pressure off him. It's a short ISO and if he flips red it'll be telling.

[GuerillaWoo]

Hang on, she said 24 hours so maybe that wasn't her big thing.

We can afford to be patient. Let's be fair, she's probably still V/LA.

[GuerillaWoo]

You're counting from the wrong post nonny :p June 25th at 10 pm UTC, still like 14 hours

[GuerillaWoo]

Yah lol I thought it was like "if I'm still V/LA by tomorrow let the town move on", took it as a literal ultimatum.

[GuerillaWoo]

Good spot on the nonny/brass bins push.


I'm probably going to end up being wrong but I believe she's his scum partner. AFAIC 2.7 is conf!scum. He's been back here super briefly talking about... not the things he should be talking about. A little like someone trapped to their neck in quicksand telling you about car insurance. Like bruh, doesn't even matter if what you say makes sense, you realize what you're in right?

I'm gonna be so happy if I'm right.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah I'm actually leaning town on brass after that whole exchange. Bins was purposely trying to aggravate him there. Didn't post anything of substance. It's stalling.

I'm VOTE: 2.7

If Bins is his partner she knows that the more time passes, the more people's reads get less confident. It's forgetfulness plain and simple.

[GuerillaWoo]

Sad to see you go Fish. Love to watch you leave

I can't even express to you guys how many fist pumps there were after that flip. Vindication feels so damn good. Good on Skygazer for cutting through the hand wringing (mine included).

Aight so, Bins, I want you to tell me why you're not 2.7’s partner and why we shouldn't hard tunnel you.

I'd also like to know who here knows for a fact it's someone other than bins, but hopefully you can save it until L-1.

VOTE: Bins

[GuerillaWoo]

I think the argument that it's a bad play or very blatant is not an argument that it couldn't have come from scum.

[GuerillaWoo]

Exception: If you're a jailkeeper and if Bins gets to L-1, and you had roleblocked her last night, let us know before we hammer. Let's let things play out without claims right now though.

[GuerillaWoo]

Ok so here's the thing: I jumped off the wagon briefly. Fish jumped off the wagon briefly.

I need to read everyone's ISOs closely, but so far I've read yours, Brass', nonny's, Iceman's, and Bins'. I truly don't see any way that it isn't Bins here. She was irrationally defending 2.7 before the roleclaim. She's the only one that had a delayed reaction to his claim, and it was a calm defense. Iceman, fish, brass etc all had various reactions to the claim, and they all scumread him before the claim.

Trinity is who I'm unsure about. I mildly suspect her just because I don't think a scum IC would allow their partner to self-immolate so spectacularly, but I promised myself not to let people's experience dictate any of my reads. Solidly on Bins right now.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah I think we should all try to avoid getting into our own discussions and arguments until Bins & Ice are here. I don't have anything against the Iceman read except his behavior prior to backing off. It's a legitimate suspicion.

[GuerillaWoo]

Is it bad that I wanna lynch both Ice and Bins?

Hi, lol. I was very wrong.

Also I agree that brass' reaction to me was likely town after a reread. I just don't like the reaction in general.

Basically what Skygazer said is gonna be my defence.

ICE post in context is interesting.

Also thinking Trinity might look slightly suss, if I can explain that.

Um, is that it?

[GuerillaWoo]

I have to say Nonny said something pretty sage, getting substantial info out of Bins is like pulling out teeth.

[GuerillaWoo]

Having gone through Trinity's ISO I'd also have no issue lynching her.

[GuerillaWoo]

341

[GuerillaWoo]

As far as I'm concerned Nonny's as close to conf!town as any of us here will get. Despite unvoting 2.7 after his claim, she hit him pretty hard and probably extracted the scummiest posts the rest of us used to read him before and after the claim.

[GuerillaWoo]

Can you describe this instinctual scumread on Sky?

[GuerillaWoo]

She gave more than a day of intent my dude.

[GuerillaWoo]

Can you explain what you meant by "Hopefully someone gets healed?"

[GuerillaWoo]

Btw if we find out by match's end that we have a jailkeeper and you didn't jail bins and she's scum, I'm gonna find you. I'm gonna find you and I'm gonna hurt you.

[GuerillaWoo]

In this setup the jailkeeper only blocks the nightkill if there's one scum left ftr

[GuerillaWoo]

That's the setup outside Road to Rome. In newbie games I guess people are flaky so they made it so one can submit both actions.

[GuerillaWoo]

Policy lynch bins

[GuerillaWoo]

Sky I've been waiting for you to bring that up, glad you did.<3

Which policy Woo?

All of them.

But for real, she's barely involved, hasn't given a single solid, well-rounded read, barely can be said to have pushed a player, spent almost every minute of D1 defending our only scummy player, is now sheeping her dang scum read, is the only one whose aim in D1 was to extract a counterclaim from 2.7's fakeclaim, and has been AWOL in every other instance.

Ice made that one post but I truly believe that he's just a little naive in his reasoning (like remember him saying town players don't get mad and behave rationally to being suspected?).

I can see Ice making a couple mistakes this game, I cannot see that for Bins. It's purposeful evasion at this point. And like if you're busy irl you sub out, you don't post minimally to avoid the kick then come in with the least interested leads ever. That's what scum do, not town.

[GuerillaWoo]

And like I actually kinda feel bad for Bins. Her partner made a stupidly risky gambit and couldn't follow through on D1. I think she would've bussed him if it were D2 or D3 but I can actually see a scum Bins tryna rescue her partner from himself. Not overtly, not by saying "I think his claim is legit", but by saying "I don't want to potentially lose the doctor."


I don't think it matters. We know our lynchpool consists of Bins, Ice, and Trinity. If the second scum is in nonny, brass, or sky then we're not gonna spend today suspecting any of em (and we'll prolly lose the game). We have no reason to, but the four of us are so motivated by the D1 scum lynch that we're pretty much determining town's trajectory on D2. Does it make sense why I think Bins is particularly lynch-worthy after those posts? She's the IC. She's uninterested in scumhunting. At best, she's sheeping someone else's PoE without acknowledging the disconnect between both Trinity reads.

I'd like to know why Trinity would buss hard.

[GuerillaWoo]

Why do you like policy lynches so much? Not the first time you've suggested one.

I'm working on a reread/long post(hoping to be done within the hour). Please don't keep throwing votes around at this point. Bins is acting suspect as hell but I don't think she's our scum.

Mod can we have current vote count?

I believe they're a necessity in the early game when they're an option, if the need to use em arises. Like imo 2.7 was a policy lynch. We can call his claim scummy or talk about how we read obvious bad intentions but let's avoid the unearned confidence of hindsight for a sec: the biggest argument for lynching him was depriving scum the capacity to use him as WIFOM. We all had doubts and wanted to back out at various points, and at the end of the day we kinda got lucky on a policy lynch. We weren't at all certain he was scum. We risked losing a doctor.

IMO policy lynches shouldn't be done on D2 if D1 was a misslynch, and shouldn't be done on D3 ever. It's just about identifying a pattern of behavior, or a character state, that can be used to hurt town, regardless if it comes from town or scum.

Plus if we won this game on two policy lynches I'd be vindicated forever. Strangers will give me money and compliments. I'll find my inner peace, at last.

[GuerillaWoo]

Policy lynch bins

Why lol?

See: 440, GuerillaWoo et al, 2018

Can everyone in this game please stop saying I’m not scumhunting???

I’m so confused. If I have “new and original” reads, I’d be pulling stuff out of my ass. I got beaten to the punch with the Ice read so I find it easier to just go “ditto”. I’m reasoning my Trinity opinion and giving confirmation on townreads.

Do you want me to fake it? Like “hey guys!! I don’t really think this but Guerilla is scum because [fake reasons]”

Having a scum read is not scumhunting. You've done nothing to pursue Ice or Brass or Nonny. Those were all your scumreads and you've been disinterested in sussing them out from the rest. Now it's the same with Ice.

I'll tell you the same thing I told all my exes: yes.

Also can you not see the possibility of a member of town believing that claim?

Some people believe the earth is flat, but I know astronauts don't.

Geurilla I can urge you to look at my scum games to prove I’m not that trash and you don’t have to feel bad for me. I bus without hesitation in most scum games. I would have known there was no saving 2.7. You should look at the wagon for bussing, I’m 100% sure his partner knew he was screwed.

Meta is WIFOM. Look at 2.7's meta. Other town players corroborated it too. It gave them doubts. Meta is meaningless.

[GuerillaWoo]

Also Ice's post 50 was, well, post 50. That was before the roleclaim. It was what started the 2.7 wagon in the first place. He was one of the first to call him out on it. Things weren't hopeless for 2.7. Up until Sky posted intent Bins was still acting like he wasn't gonna be lynched.

But most importantly: Bins was defending him even before his claim. It wasn't this sudden "Whoa, we might lose a doctor, let's back off." It was in line with a pattern of behavior.

[GuerillaWoo]

Also Ice's post 50 was, well, post 50. That was before the roleclaim. It was what started the 2.7 wagon in the first place. He was one of the first to call him out on it. Things weren't hopeless for 2.7. Up until Sky posted intent Bins was still acting like he wasn't gonna be lynched.

But most importantly: Bins was defending him even before his claim. It wasn't this sudden "Whoa, we might lose a doctor, let's back off." It was in line with a pattern of behavior.

For the first part, can you clarify if you are bringing this up in point or townIce or scumIce?

Also, how do you read Ice in hypothetical world where Bins is town in your mind?

Not sure what you mean by the first sentence. My point is Bins' 4th post in the thread was a defense of 2.7. She practically came in here defending him and voting for people on his early wagon. Ice didn't. He was part of that early wagon. The only point he truly stepped off that wagon was when the game slowed.

I read him as kind of a newbie who isn't trying to seem like a newbie. It's why I like Ice. He's not trying to lower the thread's expectations of him. He's not spending more time here justifying his absence than scumhunting. He's taken contrarian stances to us. I think there's scumminess to be read into his posts, I don't disagree with that part, but it doesn't make sense to me why scum that's certain their partner's going down would suddenly go "hang on, I'm not sure about this". By that point there was intent to hammer. It was L-1. It comes across as nerves to me. He even doubted his read on Bins, deferring to her experience briefly ("Why would a scum IC not just fake a wall?").

One thing's for sure, I hope he's back here posting more.

[GuerillaWoo]

Having gone through Trinity's ISO I'd also have no issue lynching her.

Why is that?

Just cuz you appeal to being new a lot but then have these moments where you say something experienced. It comes off like coaching. Plus you didn't really seem to react all that much to his claim. Felt like business as usual to you. When I was rereading ISOs I tried to focus less on who actually voted for 2.7, and more on how people reacted to his doc claim. It didn't seem to faze you.

Latter goes for Bins and Ice as well. Partly what's motivating my scum reads on y'all. Less so for Ice but yeah, I gotta acknowledge it felt like he reacted coolly to the claim.

[GuerillaWoo]

I feel so lost in this game sometimes. I'm struggling to figure out how Nonny is suddenly conf!town. Uggg.

I’m with you on that one! I don’t agree that she is con!town because of her defence of E. (I haven’t checked that one, but I’m assuming it means ‘confirmed town’).

It does mean confirmed town, but I was being hyperbolic. None of us are

confirmed

town except for FormerFish. What I meant is she's very very townie.

[GuerillaWoo]

Ok so, my day's nearing its end, and I'm gonna make this suggestion based on nonny's previous post:

Brass, Nonny, Sky, and myself are town.

Bins, Ice, and Trinity are null.

Let's run with this assumption and stop reading their posts in relation to 2.7's flip. Pretty sure we're gonna drive each other nuts going "This one was nicer to the bad man than the other one, this one was meaner to scum than" etc. Let's just take a townie PoE, and work on reading our nulls.

I think we're limiting ourselves to a single framework—the lens of the flip—let's just briefly find another lens.

[GuerillaWoo]

Fair enough, although forming reads based on posts made in the prior day are fair game. It's not like there's a slate that's wiped clean with every cycle.


Bussing is to "throw (one) under the bus". What Bins was saying is if you were 2.7's partner, you would've aggressively pursued his lynch.

[GuerillaWoo]

Sheeping isn't inherently bad, the accusation just means "I don't think you arrived at this read independently and you're parroting what someone else said". A lotta times it can just be a prod, a "why did you agree with this". If you're scum and do it effectively, it isn't bad. It's really just copying someone else's homework for the grade.

I am curious, who are your scum reads currently? Now that you've gotten more of a hang on the game and what it entails, who do you think is bullshitting us? Does your disagreement with my segregating the thread into those reads extend past your inclusion in the scummy group? Just looking for your thoughts.

[GuerillaWoo]

UNVOTE:

Alright, just woke up and haven't fully caught up, but yeah this is fair.

[GuerillaWoo]

Also let's use the entire two weeks up if we have to. I'd love to get two scum in two day cycles.

[GuerillaWoo]

So it's Ice and Trinity. I think that means we won, right? We won't be in LyLo until D4 and that gives us one more misslynch. So it doesn't matter so long as we Lynch within one of those two. It's a 50/50 chance either way and if we end up in D4 Lylo then we'll have to start over again cuz we'll have to read everyone all over again.

[GuerillaWoo]

If we make it to LYLO, at this point, it's likely to be Guerilla, myself, and Sky. I doubt we make it there, but, I would suggest you read the thread BEFORE LYLO with an eye towards that idea. It'll probably be a pain to wait until LYLO comes.

Hahaha I was about to post exactly this but decided against it so as not to alert you or Sky to change your behavior

[GuerillaWoo]

I have to say, I've read both your ISOs and no part of me wants to lynch either of you. I really think we're gonna endgame the scumteam before LyLo.

[GuerillaWoo]

Right now I'm leaning Trinity.

VOTE: Trinity tell us why it shouldn't be you. Do you agree with this lynch within two strategy?

[GuerillaWoo]

Right now I'm leaning Trinity.

VOTE: Trinity tell us why it shouldn't be you. Do you agree with this lynch within two strategy?

Could you explain what you mean by lynch within two strategy? I’m nit understanding this power role stuff and the strategy talk but it does seem I’ve been completely wrong about bins and nonny. So

UNVOTE:

That by process of elimination, it's either you or Ice, and we just have to lynch one of you two at random and we'll win.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah I ain't buying that. Went through her ISO again.

What do you think about Trinity, Ice?

[GuerillaWoo]

I actually kinda buy that.

[GuerillaWoo]

I don't have super strong thoughts on trinity. Nothing super stands out to me. For all intents and purposes Trinity is neutral to me. I completely support the idea that scum is in me trinity or sky. I also accept the lynching of me and trinity first. But I'm telling you after you lunch and trinity flips town you'll need to lynch skygazer in lylo. I don't but the town trying to protect a power role.

Could you explain a bit more why you are offering yourself up as scum here? I don’t know why you would do that if you were town?

Are you saying that because we are town and not power roles, that we should get lynched first, to save the others with power roles? So we would be like a sacrifice? If so, and it helps town win, then that seems logical I guess.

Anyone else see shade thrown in P1 followed by a town mentality setup in P2 all wrapped in a blanket of "I'm a newbie".

Think I've made up my mind on a Trinity lynch today.

[GuerillaWoo]

Also I'm worried that I'm town reading Brass too easily but also I think he's town

[GuerillaWoo]

Remember to post intent in case someone has some last words before night

[GuerillaWoo]

Me doing an amazing job at anything is pretty unlikely tbh

[GuerillaWoo]

Also for what it's worth I'm sorry I forced you to roleclaim lol, briefly blinded by tunnel vision there

[GuerillaWoo]

Also is anyone else starting to worry that Nonny may have been roleblocked N1? Like I still don't see Bins as conf town and this absence is awful.

[GuerillaWoo]

Not great, haven't had much sleep so I've had a few today. World Cup has me bugging too lol

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah I made it to four days lol. The tough part is how scatterbrained you get, like nothing makes sense and you forget why you stopped.

[GuerillaWoo]

YESSS

[GuerillaWoo]

@Jackal it's the wrong scum PT

[GuerillaWoo]

Ditto graveyard

[GuerillaWoo]

Also I totally knew it'd be two goons. Why else fakeclaim D1 if there wasn't a 60% chance of pulling it off?

[GuerillaWoo]

To be fair scum here just had tough luck. Weirdly I think that claim was ok, it just came at a bad time? Like it didn't seem like a consequence of your wagon, it felt constructed. Like you wanted to push that gamestate. You just have to remember that town players, especially newbies, are reactive and not active. Otherwise it comes out as unnatural.

You tended to verbalize what you wanted town to think you were doing and not just acting that way. Just don't be in a hurry and be an actor.

Good game y'all.

[GuerillaWoo]

PS feel better soon Trinity

Thanks I’ve actually been sick for three days but didn’t want to say anything as I thought it might look like I was lying. Seriously, I don’t think I did anything right in this whole game! Pretty much the whole time I had no idea what to do. I’m sorry too 2.7 that I was of no help to you!

Nah you did really well. No one really suspected you enough to want you lynched until D2. 2.7 made a pretty big, complex play and imperfectly, you managed to distance yourself from it well and knew to lean into your feeling of being new to create WIFOM.

It's just bad luck, we got lucky with his roleclaim cuz we only had three ppl to pressure on D2. That's exceptionally lucky. The fact that you were scum your first game is also bad luck. You should play another game, hopefully (and likely) as town so it helps you understand what it's like trying to find scum.

[GuerillaWoo]

Nonny was conf!town cuz she claimed to save a townie and pushed hard on 2.7's lynch. Bins was going into L-1 regardless. If she hadn't jailed her N1, we would still be arguing about whether it's Bins or Ice right now. Not your fault.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah I went through your ISO a lot to figure out what made you the N1 kill