Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[MathBlade]

Rainbow Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, you do something random (anything any other color can do) to them.
Orange Goo: You will steal the vote of anyone who targets you for the rest of the game.
Brown Goo: You will steal the vote of anyone who targets you for the next game day.
Green Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will become green goo and lose any powers they currently have. Their team doesn't change.
Toxic Goo: Anyone who targets you with an ability will die of poison at the end of the next day.
Black Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will join your cult as another black goo regardless of their original team.
Red Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, they become a neighbor of you.
Blue Goo: If you die or are lynched, the player who kills you or casts the lynching vote becomes blue goo themselves.
Turquoise Goo: When you die, you can turn another player into Turquoise Goo.
Purple Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, you switch roles with that player.
Silver Goo: Whenever another player targets you with an action, you become a perfect copy of that player.
White Goo: All dead players will turn to White Goo as they die. You show up as town on death.
Grey Goo: You can target a player to turn them into more Grey Goo. Their team doesn't change. (This is the only non-reflexive goo.)
Teal Goo: Anyone who targets you with an action will evolve to a new role.
Gold Goo: Whenever someone targets you with a non-group action, they lose the ability to use that action and you gain it.
Yellow Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, they lose the ability to use that action and you gain it. This even affects group actions. That member of the group can no longer perform that action. Other members of the group can still perform it

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Goo

....uhmmm if it acted like that would be beyond bastard.
Just ask the mod if it’s goo the role or just flavor. I will do the same

[MathBlade]

/end rant.

I'm up for killing creature. I was actually reading back drixx during night phase and I thought what sando explained can be a real thing but I'm still not sure why would a scum drixx with power negation use a bp next night when shiro could be protected

Sounds like a plan just a matter of how.

[MathBlade]

Rainbow Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, you do something random (anything any other color can do) to them.
Orange Goo: You will steal the vote of anyone who targets you for the rest of the game.
Brown Goo: You will steal the vote of anyone who targets you for the next game day.
Green Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will become green goo and lose any powers they currently have. Their team doesn't change.
Toxic Goo: Anyone who targets you with an ability will die of poison at the end of the next day.
Black Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will join your cult as another black goo regardless of their original team.
Red Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, they become a neighbor of you.
Blue Goo: If you die or are lynched, the player who kills you or casts the lynching vote becomes blue goo themselves.
Turquoise Goo: When you die, you can turn another player into Turquoise Goo.
Purple Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, you switch roles with that player.
Silver Goo: Whenever another player targets you with an action, you become a perfect copy of that player.
White Goo: All dead players will turn to White Goo as they die. You show up as town on death.
Grey Goo: You can target a player to turn them into more Grey Goo. Their team doesn't change. (This is the only non-reflexive goo.)
Teal Goo: Anyone who targets you with an action will evolve to a new role.
Gold Goo: Whenever someone targets you with a non-group action, they lose the ability to use that action and you gain it.
Yellow Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, they lose the ability to use that action and you gain it. This even affects group actions. That member of the group can no longer perform that action. Other members of the group can still perform it

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Goo

Guidelines
You should never see this role in a Normal Game. Seeing one is a pretty big indication that you are playing a Bastard Game.

I refuse to believe this is Goo the role.

Anywho I gotta go. Kick ass people. We can do this.

[MathBlade]

yeah obviously that is bastard. It was just the power role that ability implies.

K then how about we stay in the realm of “hey this isn’t bastard”?

Please help figure out what we are doing with Creature.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=8113020#p8113020

I went through it enough to see that Titus could potentially be that stupid.
I don’t have time to type up all my thoughts but that post is one that stood out to me.

So a Creature lynch is a okay with me. I just don’t think it’s ideal.

If no one townreads him I could always just petrify him though so we end up with a lynch that is useful instead of stagnating the game. If we are doing suicide bomb I think it’s extremely important to identify three town in the lynch pool and give them bombs.

Another alternative is to just blow him up with the suicide bombers.

However if we think it’s proper to lynch him then I am on board. We just have to consider all angles.

That kill threw me for a loop and I need to redo some calculations when not at work.

But why Petrification over a regular lynch? What I’m thinking is, if Creature is scum here, who are his two remaining teammates? If we can figure that out, then we’ve got the game solved.

The gist is this.

If we petrify Creature we get a useful lynch today. If I remember right then Healing Touch wasn’t available D2. Scum would have no defense to it. We use that helpful lynch to determine who is scum left and to distribute the bombs.

[MathBlade]

I am thinking two hidden scum in the not town block

The reason being is Titus was screaming for Ank to confirm her. She probably ran a gambit that went sideways.

[MathBlade]

To be clear Creature has to die before the start of the next day.

I just want us to plan out how.

Where is this 180 coming from anyway? Weren’t you hard defending him last day phase. What changed?

I did as I said I read Titus’s meta. I had not seen that game. Therefore my logic I used to townread Creature was flawed. Titus could indeed be that stupid which I feel bad for her scumbuddies. It’s pretty much as close to throwing as one can get. It’s why outed scum lolcats.

[MathBlade]

Nancy...

Repeat after me
Do not go into the rabbit hole.

Do not go into the rabbit hole.

[MathBlade]

I am thinking two hidden scum in the not town block

The reason being is Titus was screaming for Ank to confirm her. She probably ran a gambit that went sideways.

Two? I’m not entirely convinced of that.

Yeah I am thinking Creature who is obvious and two townread scum in the lynchpool

They’d have to keep dodging lynches somehow

[MathBlade]

Yeah I am thinking Creature who is obvious

???

Yeah I was putting too much trust in Titus not being stupid versus you lurking

[MathBlade]

To be clear Creature has to die before the start of the next day.

I just want us to plan out how.

Where is this 180 coming from anyway? Weren’t you hard defending him last day phase. What changed?

I did as I said I read Titus’s meta. I had not seen that game. Therefore my logic I used to townread Creature was flawed. Titus could indeed be that stupid which I feel bad for her scumbuddies. It’s pretty much as close to throwing as one can get. It’s why outed scum lolcats.

I will address this late tonight. Can’t do it while working.
Numbers/Titus/Creature? = scum dreamteam. . Well considering it’s now D5 and there are 3 scum still left in the game - 2, if you don’t include Creature. What are the odds of RNG being this bad for scum? If your theory is correct, then they’re is at least one really deep wolf - if not two left in the game. Can you think of anyone left in the game - in or outside of the townblock, who might be capable of pulling that off?

[MathBlade]

To be clear Creature has to die before the start of the next day.

I just want us to plan out how.

Where is this 180 coming from anyway? Weren’t you hard defending him last day phase. What changed?

I did as I said I read Titus’s meta. I had not seen that game. Therefore my logic I used to townread Creature was flawed. Titus could indeed be that stupid which I feel bad for her scumbuddies. It’s pretty much as close to throwing as one can get. It’s why outed scum lolcats.

I will address this late tonight. Can’t do it while working.
Numbers/Titus/Creature? = scum dreamteam. . Well considering it’s now D5 and there are 3 scum still left in the game - 2, if you don’t include Creature. What are the odds of RNG being this bad for scum? If your theory is correct, then they’re is at least one really deep wolf - if not two left in the game. Can you think of anyone left in the game - in or outside of the townblock, who might be capable of pulling that off?

I will address this after work.

Can’t address this while working

[MathBlade]

not lynching creature requires not remembering how bad his posting was this entire game

let's sit on this shit, alright?

don't lynch anyone without ISOing them unless we have a guilty today

Correction not making sure Creature is murdered. But yeah I agree with the principal idea.

How we kill him is up for debate.

[MathBlade]

my suggestion for the day would be Math bombs ppl tonight but I don't trust him to be mature enough to self-detonate.

Considering giving bomb to me when I am likely petrifying Creature would be stupid, I would never self detonate.

There would be no reason for me to die when I can petrify.

And furthermore we want to eliminate people in the lynchpool
And even furthermore we don’t give out bombs plural to one person
Each person would get one

Like *facepalm*

Someone tell me if this is derp!Nero please or scum!Nero still thinking derp

[MathBlade]

Now the question is, considering how OP a public self-watcher is do we really wanna go with the bombing plan? or should i just choose townies so if they die we know who targeted them.
And if we do i think we should probably announce colors beforehand.

How’d you get self watcher from that?
I thought it said another player?

[MathBlade]

Now the question is, considering how OP a public self-watcher is do we really wanna go with the bombing plan? or should i just choose townies so if they die we know who targeted them.
And if we do i think we should probably announce colors beforehand.

How’d you get self watcher from that?
I thought it said another player?

Everyone that targets you would be publicly known by their color in the votecount.
So basically everyone knows who targeted you.
So basically a public self-watcher

I think that is backwards?

People give away goo. So all goo givers would have to hit the same target?

Then that target would be a rainbow?

Unless I am missing something.

Let me re-examine after work

[MathBlade]

DAY 5 BEGINS

Votecount 5.0

Leader: Sakura Hana

Creature (0):

Drixx (0):

Frozen Angel (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

hebichan (0):

Kokichi Oma (0):

MathBlade(0):

Nancy Drew 39 (0):

Nero Cain (0):

Nosferatu (0):

Sando (0):

Theta Alpine(0):

the worst (0):

Toranaga (0):

Not Voting (15):

Creature, Drixx, Frozen Angel, Gamma Emerald, hebichan, Kokichi Oma, MathBlade, Nancy Drew 39, Nero Cain, Nosferatu, Sakura Hana, Sando, Theta Alpine, the worst, Toranaga

With

15

players, it takes

8

to lynch.
The day ends in (expired on 2018-08-20 11:00:00).

Abilities Available for Acquisition

Goo Generation:

Until the next Night Phase, anyone that successfully targets you will be covered in goo of a single color of your choice.

Petrification:

Target another player. That player loses their ability to post, vote, and submit actions and no longer counts for parity.

Power Absorption:

You acquire any Superpowers that successfully target you.

Power Echo:

Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.

**Self-Detonation:

Target another player. Both you and that player will die.

Superhuman Tracking:

Target another player. You will know who that player targets this Night Phase.

**May be used during the Day but still counts against the following Night's Superpower usage. If used during the Day, resolves immediately. If used during the Night, resolves normally.

Nope I was backwards. Derp lol sorry.

Not sure how powerful that is though compared to bombs.

Still thinking bombs since scum aren’t targeting obvious kills so it seems kinda useless.

[MathBlade]

Goo Generation: Until the next Night Phase,

anyone that successfully targets you

will be covered in goo of a single color of your choice.

I think you read it wrong Math

Let me put some more thought into it late tonight

[MathBlade]

since scum aren’t targeting obvious kills

Stun was pretty obvious town. I know I called him scum at the start b/c I saw something I didn't really like. Don't remember if I ever said anthing about town reading him but I was and everyone but you prob was as well. :/

I agree he was obvious Town.

Obvious kill is another matter altogether

[MathBlade]

since scum aren’t targeting obvious kills

Stun was pretty obvious town. I know I called him scum at the start b/c I saw something I didn't really like. Don't remember if I ever said anthing about town reading him but I was and everyone but you prob was as well. :/

Again I was obvTowning Stun he was in my power list like

Can you misrep harder?

[MathBlade]

In any case, should I out who I give powers today or wait until tomorrow.

If you mean out if you received powers from me go for it

Who you will give powers wait until we have a plan

[MathBlade]

but real talk Math: don't use Petrification: on Creature. I mean, I guess you could but it seems useless and we want him dead. Save it. Self Petrification would be nice but not gonna happen...

Yes we do want him dead.

However forcing scum to kill me or negate me reveals a lot about the setup.

If Creature lives until tomorrow then Creature is confirmed scum and scum are confirmed to have negate.

If Creature is petrified then it confirms that scum thought he was a goner and held it (unlikely) or they don’t have it.

We have tons of obvTown forcing scum to kill me or negate me is a huge win.

We then blow up any potential scum and then give obvTown like FA and Nancy the goo and force them to use it since people were terrified of negates

This cages scum.

Give me a bit to think on this. But I think this is a lot better strategy.

[MathBlade]

So one of Nancy, FA or Math is scum?

I think Titus could've given it to an unnamed person that is a teammate.

+1

We only have who Titus claimed to give it to and there was one short. So either Ank got a power and it was a failed Titus gambit (possible with how she was screaming for Ank to confirm her) or she gave it to a buddy

[MathBlade]

So one of Nancy, FA or Math is scum?

I think Titus could've given it to an unnamed person that is a teammate.

Leader can give powers to ppl not in the superhero team?

The superhero team is not mod confirmed

The leader claims who we give powers to before day end
The people who got powers confirm day start.

[MathBlade]

So we have who the leader claimed to give powers to each day.

Titus being scum said 5 one of whom was Ank.

Ank dying means she could have (and likely did) give it to scum

[MathBlade]

So Titus gave power to a scummate instead of Ank.

N2: Titus > FA, Nancy, Shiro, Math, Ank (Ank died)

So one of Nancy, FA or Math is scum?

Then your conclusion doesn’t follow?

[MathBlade]

The leader claims who we give powers to before day end
The people who got powers confirm day start.

Well, technically FA said it D2, Titus was forced beforehand because of a leash.
I don't mind outing my team today instead of tomorrow im just worried that scum will just avoid shooting them in fear of a self-watcher.
the bombing team is an entirely different story if we go that route tho.

Bombing do 50/50 split

Like {{one of A or B if you get a bomb explode on buddy}}
Something like
{{Dream Weaver or Brian Skies gets a bomb whoever does blow up on other}}
X3
FA self watcher
Nancy self watcher

[MathBlade]

Throw on top of that I petrify Creature because FA and Nancy (even though I am pretty sure she doesn’t have PN mainly for FA paranoia) will have to self watch then boom. We find out if scum indeed have negate

[MathBlade]

obviously she gave it to scum

that's why I used mimickry on gamma last night. I was shooting for a red check.

I actually went from kokichi to gamma because I tried to hit their most townread wolf who likely got powers that night

Why didn’t you verify the townblock?

*curious look*

Like people are paranoid of deep wolves why not check someone in the block?

[MathBlade]

The leader claims who we give powers to before day end
The people who got powers confirm day start.

Well, technically FA said it D2, Titus was forced beforehand because of a leash.
I don't mind outing my team today instead of tomorrow im just worried that scum will just avoid shooting them in fear of a self-watcher.
the bombing team is an entirely different story if we go that route tho.

Bombing do 50/50 split

Like {{one of A or B if you get a bomb explode on buddy}}
Something like
{{Dream Weaver or Brian Skies gets a bomb whoever does blow up on other}}
X3
FA self watcher
Nancy self watcher

@Drixx thoughts?

[MathBlade]

The leader claims who we give powers to before day end
The people who got powers confirm day start.

Well, technically FA said it D2, Titus was forced beforehand because of a leash.
I don't mind outing my team today instead of tomorrow im just worried that scum will just avoid shooting them in fear of a self-watcher.
the bombing team is an entirely different story if we go that route tho.

Bombing do 50/50 split

Like {{one of A or B if you get a bomb explode on buddy}}
Something like
{{Dream Weaver or Brian Skies gets a bomb whoever does blow up on other}}
X3
FA self watcher
Nancy self watcher
I petrify Creature

@Drixx thoughts?

[MathBlade]

Wait what if titus didn't give ank a power.

Then she would give it to a scum buddy. That’s the theory atm

[MathBlade]

The leader claims who we give powers to before day end
The people who got powers confirm day start.

Well, technically FA said it D2, Titus was forced beforehand because of a leash.
I don't mind outing my team today instead of tomorrow im just worried that scum will just avoid shooting them in fear of a self-watcher.
the bombing team is an entirely different story if we go that route tho.

Bombing do 50/50 split

Like {{one of A or B if you get a bomb explode on buddy}}
Something like

{{Dream Weaver or Brian Skies gets a bomb whoever does blow up on other}}

X3
FA self watcher
Nancy self watcher

What? Are you derping too now?

No. It was an example so Drixx would evaluate the merits based on the idea not the players doing it.

[MathBlade]

Throw on top of that I petrify Creature because FA and Nancy (even though I am pretty sure she doesn’t have PN mainly for FA paranoia) will have to self watch then boom. We find out if scum indeed have negate

I don’t know what FA has to do with it? I either have EH or bp. Not saying which. I have no intention of making things easier for scum.

FA has claimed PN.

I am 99.9999% sure she is not scum but self watcher proves scum have negate.
I don’t want her to try to hero save me
What we gain from petrifying Creature is too great

[MathBlade]

3.) I still think the suicide bombing plan is bad because giving scum what amounts to free mislynches is never a good idea and I don't think the game state warrants the risk.

This is actually either scum tmi or blatantly the worst posting I've ever seen. You're literally assuming all 3 scum are in the townblock, lol.

People actually have expressed a belief that I'm scum. That dramatically raises my paranoia about the townblock being infiltrated. At this point, I am reassessing as much as is possible in a game of this length.

Except that has no bearing on reality.
We have leashed scum. A scum that doesn’t want its leash will push.

It is a natural reaction. It would have been telling if people were worried day three or four.
We’re on day five. The only person to express a suspicion of scum in the townblock is Nero and he gets a pass because replacement and imho he doesn’t understand the mechanics. However if he is still pushing the same damn thing with no reasonable case then it is cause for worry. I am all for reinvestigating town blocks that is healthy. But not at the expense of moving the game forward or discussing reads.

Yesterday and today I have posed mechanics questions that you have not answered. I have presented the numbers as to why they are superior. Do you have a problem with my premises other than “what if scum infiltrated the town block?” Because your fears are imho unwarranted.

Today we as a collective unit have to make a choice to trust or distrust the townblock. The mechanics dictate it. So please explain your paranoia or provide something to the table that can be analyzed and weighed against the evidence the block is all town. If you cannot then we go forward with the town block.

[MathBlade]

1.) I took the doctor like ability last night and targeted our current leader with it. Figured it couldn't hurt and might save a kill. I didn't see any watch report so posting what I did in case someone was waiting to see what I would say.

im glad you actually tried to prevent a kill on me, but a power negate would've nullified it, did you miss my posts where i said i would 100% SS a BP?

There's too much unknown in the game to be certain. I wanted to be certain.

Ok i get that.
But i mean, it's only useful if you thought i was gambiting and wasnt going to SS a BP.
If scum had strongman or SS they would pierce both your and my protection.
If math was scum and didnt give me power, then scum would power negate me which would also prevent your protection.
So it kinda overlapped, Im still wondering about the why of that.
I wanna know what your thought process was about it.
Or is that it?

but real talk Math: don't use Petrification: on Creature. I mean, I guess you could but it seems useless and we want him dead. Save it. Self Petrification would be nice but not gonna happen...

Yes we do want him dead.

However forcing scum to kill me or negate me reveals a lot about the setup.

If Creature lives until tomorrow then Creature is confirmed scum and scum are confirmed to have negate.

If Creature is petrified then it confirms that scum thought he was a goner and held it (unlikely) or they don’t have it.

We have tons of obvTown forcing scum to kill me or negate me is a huge win.

We then blow up any potential scum and then give obvTown like FA and Nancy the goo and force them to use it since people were terrified of negates

This cages scum.

Give me a bit to think on this. But I think this is a lot better strategy.

why not bombing or lynching him? petrified players won't flip

For a few reasons
1) No players townread Creature to my understanding. Therefore if he is scum it’s a waste of a townlife to bomb him. It’s also a waste of a day to lynch him. With the Toog lynch decided everything just sort of sat to a crawl.
Petrification is the best of both worlds plus the added bonus of figuring out if scum have useful powers and forcing them to try to use them to save Creature.

2) This allows us to spread the bombs over a wider range of could be scums rather than having to devote one to Creature. This is the same idea as a claimed vig. They shoot scum and if they die they take out scum.

3) That being said I think the best move is to petrify Creature. However should the town disagree bombing him imho should be the next priority as to get a useful lynch out of today.

[MathBlade]

Now the question is, considering how OP a public self-watcher is do we really wanna go with the bombing plan? or should i just choose townies so if they die we know who targeted them.
And if we do i think we should probably announce colors beforehand.

How’d you get self watcher from that?
I thought it said another player?

Everyone that targets you would be publicly known by their color in the votecount.
So basically everyone knows who targeted you.
So basically a public self-watcher

I think that is backwards?

People give away goo. So all goo givers would have to hit the same target?

Then that target would be a rainbow?

Unless I am missing something.

Let me re-examine after work

what sakura said is true. I posted it in thread too

And I realized my derp a few posts after.

I still think mixing the bombs is best. It’s been blatantly clear scum are not killing the group with BP powers.

Therefore distributing a ton of self watchers to people in the townblock is a waste.

[MathBlade]

A few thoughts ... some of which are left over from last day phase because thread locked while I was putting together a post.

1.) I took the doctor like ability last night and targeted our current leader with it. Figured it couldn't hurt and might save a kill. I didn't see any watch report so posting what I did in case someone was waiting to see what I would say.

2.) There's some serious intellectual dishonesty in the late part of yesterday. At least twice (and perhaps more often), I made it clear that my brain wasn't braining properly when I voted on day 2. I did NOT vote the person I felt was crossing the line with Titus. That doesn't change the fact that Titus was being wound up intentionally. Anyone who knows Titus and goes and reads even a small part of day 2 will know that. I am thus a little bit concerned that a couple people are pretending like I'm insisting that the particular vote I made was tied to my reasoning. I wasn't even the least bit obtuse in admitting that my memory was incorrect and I voted the wrong person.

2a.) Just as a side note: That gave Titus a really good reason to go way lower activity in day 2 than her usual self.

3.) I still think the suicide bombing plan is bad because giving scum what amounts to free mislynches is never a good idea and I don't think the game state warrants the risk.

4.) Someone yesterday implied that when I said I had dropped a town tell earlier in the game that I was referring to a

TRUST TELL

. They're not the same thing. A trust tell is something a person only does as one alignment or the other and then having established that meta they

refer to it in an attempt to take advantage of it

. That's not really at all what I mean. If you haven't played with me enough, then you didn't catch it, and that's fine. Some in this list have played with me often enough they would find it in my ISO.

3) Did you see my post arguing about what happens if we don’t suicide bomb? @Drixx I would love if you would answer all withstanding @Drixx questions before making blanket “risk is too great”. I have brought an in-depth plan with analysis and what happens if we did in the rare case have scum in the block. So now in a traditional point counterpoint sense it is your turn.

Anyone thinking the self-watcher plan is better than the bombing plan has to address the same concerns brought up earlier. Either way today you are trusting the townblock. No matter who gets powers they could get petrify. Therefore the bombing plan is the safest because of the leash it represents and we get to petrify obvScum to boot

4) That was me. Meh I disagree on definitions but imho if you’re trying to say you’re town because meta that’s trying to invoke a trust tell. Whether it’s something you drop or not is irrelevant. However the board does not share my views so it’s best for all of this is dropped.

[MathBlade]

@Nero - Dude. Snark and rhetoric are

NOT

the same thing as abuse. Everyone who knows Titus (and Mathblade for that matter) knows how to wind them up personally. That's abuse. Me being tongue in cheek is NOT abuse.

Every single "point" in your case against me as a bunch of NAI shit. Obviously if I were scum, I did and would do those things. I didn't even try to say otherwise.

So if you have a bunch of stuff that is literally (by your own definition) WiFoM, then you look at the overall picture. In what world do I even at all go along with doing anything to try and help Titus after day one if I'm scum with her? You know (or should know) how ruthlessly I will cut bait on a scum partner who screws up and is an inevitable lynch. You've just spent an inordinate amount of time pointing out that I did none of the things I would normally do as scum with a doomed teammate. Like ... 1+1 is not hard man.

Drop the tunnel goggles if you're town. You're wasting a lot of effort to no good end. If you are as good as you think, I dropped a pretty strong town tell quite awhile back. I'm certain at least two people caught it. If I count Math who was already sure before I did it, then that would be three ... but I'm not sure Math was actually bothering to look at that point.


@math: you're missing a huge problem in terms of being able to determine if any scum make it into the team. You're assuming that you can isolate them in a way that you can't. I really don't want to say more and I shouldn't have even said this I don't think. -- You did catch the math problem though which is good. I'm pretty sure that we lose a little EV with the suicide vest plan, with the upside obviously being a faster win.

So ... do we want to play mafia and leverage a strong position to maintain a near 100% EWR or do we want to gamble a significant amount of that to try and win sooner? I mean ... I've not had to work as hard this game to get to this state. You and a couple others have done the heavy lifting. What I

can

tell you from past experience where Cerb and I solve the game and we tell the game exactly what's going on and we have it set up for a win and then people do dumb shit and we lose ... that is crazy frustrating and has gotten super old. I highly do NOT recommend it.

All it would take is for one of the scums to have played a strong game so far and be in a super trusted spot and using 2-3 suicide vest takes out 4-6 townies. That takes away 2-3 cycles where they have to keep playing a really strong game. In this case I really feel like time is an ally. It's really hard to be scum but keep up a realistic narrative that you are town for real time months on end. Believe me because I have done it before a few times and it takes a toll. (Smite and SU2 are the games that come immediately to mind where I played alone as last scum for months in real time; I enjoyed both games but needed to recharge mentally after each one).

You know me well enough to know that I have very strong reasons behind what I'm saying. If there were some way for us to freaking neighborize I would really love to do an unfiltered thought dump right about now.

@Drixx
First I really wasn’t looking for any sort of tells. If I happen to find them (like in regards to Nancy and what power she took) then I note it and move on. I have been focusing on now having town self implode. Between that and work and everything else this has been an insane game. Secondly dropping a town/trust tell (e.g. something you only do reliably as town and not as scum) intentionally and then not replicating it (or trying) in scum games is either illegal or angle shooting so I don’t want to discuss the “tells” angle.

Secondly yes I can be wound up. However calling it ABUSE is a bit of a stretch. I have gotten a lot thicker skin since taking some mediciation to help bring my hormones in equilibrium. I know people who are actual abuse victims and I hate the characterization. I understand your point and would say “low blow” or something similar.

In regards to your maintain a near 100% winrate comment, that is simply wine. Let me explain how.
Assume that we don’t do the suicide plan and you FA and Sakura are scum. (Again I do not believe this)
Then all three of you pick up petrify and track people without powers. Then after one/two/three mislynches whatever the required townies is mass petrification happens and you hit me and some other townie with powers.

At that similar point there is no way we then go for the townblock before that point.
What suicide bomber does is gives us control over the clock.

We have to make a decision whether we trust the town block. We are at 14 town 3 scum. If Toog is town and NK successful (which in 3 townblock would be) we are at 12. The next day. Mislynch is 11. If there are three scum in the town block we are already fucked if we play traditionally based on the numbers.

The suicide bomb is only risky if we hit three scum exactly with the bombs but in that case they are outed.

Playing conservative or traditionally we are going to have to take it on faith that the town block is town.

However that leap of faith is not really a big leap. If FA or myself or Sakura were scum it would have been advantageous to actually kill with power negate and be outed as then due to the gamestate Nancy and you get lynched. When I was scum in Shadowrun I used this specific idea in Shadowrun when I was forced to kill the traitor and then had just barely enough to get the resurrection at the end of the game.

Furthermore we know that assuming Titus gave powers to someone that night and killed Ank for that reason then this necessarily means she taught scum how to play the long game and therefore would not attract attention to the buddies. All three would have to be alive. Therefore Kokichi and Creature are likely not scum. Furthermore there have been seemingly no negate kills in the townblock. This also seems to be stealth scum.

Do you see where I am going with this?

I struck out the irrelevant sections and quoted the post for you @Drixx.

I know you read it because you commented on the tells portion of it.

Is there a reason why you dodged it?

[MathBlade]

Throw on top of that I petrify Creature because FA and Nancy (even though I am pretty sure she doesn’t have PN mainly for FA paranoia) will have to self watch then boom. We find out if scum indeed have negate

I don’t know what FA has to do with it? I either have EH or bp. Not saying which. I have no intention of making things easier for scum.

FA has claimed PN.

I am 99.9999% sure she is not scum but self watcher proves scum have negate.
I don’t want her to try to hero save me
What we gain from petrifying Creature is too great

Goo Generation: Until the next Night Phase, anyone that successfully targets you will be covered in goo of a single color of your choice.
Petrification: Target another player. That player loses their ability to post, vote, and submit actions and no longer counts for parity.
Power Absorption: You acquire any Superpowers that successfully target you.
Power Echo: Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.
**Self-Detonation: Target another player. Both you and that player will die.
Superhuman Tracking: Target another player. You will know who that player targets this Night Phase.

**May be used during the Day but still counts against the following Night's Superpower usage. If used during the Day, resolves immediately. If used during the Night, resolves normally.

Is Power Absorbtion, self-watcher?

But I still don’t understand your FA comment. I didn’t know what powers she had until D3 and she didn’t even claim PN until D4 iirc? So, my pick was unrelated to that. *confused*

It’s more FA pressured you.
I am confirmed not to have power negate having used precog multiple times now.
Pretty sure it’s just you and FA not “confirmed”

If we confirm you by giving you and FA self watchers and everything goes fine best of all possible worlds.

Which is why I want Drixx’s feedback on my plan. The fact he is dodging my risk assessment and analysis of the risk and then saying it is too risky is pissing me off.

[MathBlade]

To be clear Creature has to die before the start of the next day.

I just want us to plan out how.

Where is this 180 coming from anyway? Weren’t you hard defending him last day phase. What changed?

I did as I said I read Titus’s meta. I had not seen that game. Therefore my logic I used to townread Creature was flawed. Titus could indeed be that stupid which I feel bad for her scumbuddies. It’s pretty much as close to throwing as one can get. It’s why outed scum lolcats.

I will address this late tonight. Can’t do it while working.
Numbers/Titus/Creature? = scum dreamteam. . Well considering it’s now D5 and there are 3 scum still left in the game - 2, if you don’t include Creature. What are the odds of RNG being this bad for scum? If your theory is correct, then they’re is at least one really deep wolf - if not two left in the game. Can you think of anyone left in the game - in or outside of the townblock, who might be capable of pulling that off?

Inside the townblock, Drixx or FA maybe. Sakura and you I don’t know enough about.

Outside the townblock UFO maybe? I don’t know a lot of scum metas outside it and those I know don’t really do mechanics that much.

[MathBlade]

I'm not sure what you want me to answer there Math. I already told you there's a flaw and gave you a hint. I don't think it's prudent at all to tell scum how to maximize utility in the current gamestate.

I mean ... I skimmed a shit load of pages from yesterday so if there's other outstanding things ... let me know but I think I already told you why I think the bomb plan is bad. You asked for a sanity check. I gave it. It's up to you whether you trust me or don't.

1) You said there is a flaw.
2) I sat down studied and analyzed and found said flaw.
3) You acknowledged I found said flaw.
4) I have been studying the plan backwards and forwards and do not see any issues with it. I have proposed this plan to everyone else with the idea that if it is bad, it will be torn down and therefore not used.
5) Therefore if you believe the plan to be flawed, you need to out the flaw as given.

As I write this to my knowledge your only concern is what if scum exists in the townblock?
A) This was countered with in that case if there is scum exclusively in the townblock then we almost certainly mislynch. Those scum would then get powers. That scum then wins. It is literally the exact same flaw as with the bomb plan mentioned earlier. I wrote out in detail why we have to decide if we trust the townblock. Whether we do or not do the bombing plan that same risk element is there.

B) If there is some other mystical flaw that you know of, it is your obligation and duty to bring it forward. We’ve already talked petrify and you were okay with mentioning the pyramid number of kills? So what could be so damning as that? And

if

such a damning thing has been overlooked by everyone isn’t it your duty to share?

So you need to take stances on mechanical things other than “risky”.
I have explained how it is not risky.
You need to interact with what I am saying.

[MathBlade]

This is quite literally the same problem from the day petrification was offered the first time.
Like I do not understand your answer.
A sanity check includes WHY and the rational points of interaction.
Mafia is inherently a game of risk.
There is nothing we can be certain over but I feel the plan I suggested minimizes that risk.

[MathBlade]

how are we multiplying the use of self detonation? it seems like it can only trigger on one player

also that's something we'd only use tomorrow right?

Player A gets bomb explodes on B
Player C gets bomb explodes on D
Player E gets bomb explodes on F

Powers chosen tonight can be used tonight

So this is something we would use tonight.

[MathBlade]

That reminds me I need to pick candidates for leadership for tomorrow dont I.
I have been thinking about it but i cant make up my mind.

I would say to nominate myself and Nancy.

The reason being is the townblock likely is all town and I am using powers that mean I can’t use protection or self watch so maybe Drixx doctors me tonight and Nancy as the backup would remove the doubling up on leaders that Sando has worried about.

[MathBlade]

That reminds me I need to pick candidates for leadership for tomorrow dont I.
I have been thinking about it but i cant make up my mind.

I would say to nominate myself and Nancy.

The reason being is the townblock likely is all town and I am using powers that mean I can’t use protection or self watch so maybe Drixx doctors me tonight and Nancy as the backup would remove the doubling up on leaders that Sando has worried about.

You 2 arent the only ones in the townbloc, I'm not 100% sure it's a bad thing to get FA yet again leader.
But in any case, there's something I just realized. Tora has an ability that gives him information on what people are doing, yet has no protection, why pray tell, is he not dead yet, specially over Sando if Tora's seen as super townie too. My theory is that probably scum dont see his ability as a threat.

Agreed there on Toranaga’s powers.

His “check” yesterday to be frank if town didn’t confirm anything. Not that he isn’t scum only if scum he didn’t use a power. So his “check” didn’t prove anyone red or green. This further validates the townblock is town

And regarding leaders I see your point about FA being leader again. It’s more I was giving weight to Sando’s thoughts and balancing that. Myself and FA would still be good choices.

[MathBlade]

like sure, Gamma didn't use a power so we know he was not given one or didn't use one and you're right, that's not evidence of him being scum but its also not evidence of him being town. Check is null to me.

This.

Omg I agree with Nero

[MathBlade]

Meh.

Nero I could see.
Toranaga has used his power so suboptimally I don’t want him being leader as I still scumread him for it but if he is town then I don’t trust him to adequately give out stuff correctly.

If I am taking out Creature I myself am defenseless. And based on how tonight goes I could need to do it again.
But I guess we could use it as a barometer of Drixx town if he just keeps healing me?

Nero and FA isn’t all that bad. But mainly FA is better.

Pedit
@Toranaga
We would be giving powers under the condition they blow up on the other person mentioned.
If they don’t its a scum claim and game throwing. This is the only day we 100% can’t lose with this is today mathematically. Furthermore we give it to the most townie of the lynchpool to prevent that problem as said before.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore as mentioned we are trusting the townblock is all town whether we go with the bomb plan or not. Due to numbers and lynches etc.

So the bomb plan is the best way to go about things.

[MathBlade]

ok math you veto me I veto you, deal?

wrt the power thing: sure. if I'm elected to receive a power, I'm 100% getting the sui bomb and letting other slots be resolved before setting myself off, unless people want me as leader instead. 1 for 1 is a pretty fantastic deal and everyone should just take it.

the suboptimal use of my power has so far given the best reason anyone has for townreading drixx btw

I could have targeted shiro and be talking with the dead now, and I did forget to send it in n2, but none of that makes my play "so suboptimally it's actually scummy". I think my actions have been fine. I targeted FA, drixx and gamma, and all of those results have given us something to help solve the game. using that as the basis to scumread me is pretty awful but alas, you do you mate.

I do not veto.

I think it solves the horrible uses of powers perfectly if you are one of the bombers.
Your second paragraph sketches me out to be frank. Like “look at this I am ‘helping’” it just feels wrong.

However if town thinks you’re better as leader that is the majority decision and I will respect that. I would just like to be voting the other person nominated. I just don’t think you are a good choice.

[MathBlade]

For the bombing plan.

[Creature, Hebi], [Theta, Gamma], [Nosferatu, TW] [Kokichi]

The pairs one of them will get bomb and kill the other, the solo is who we lynch today.
I paired Creature and Hebi coz Creature SRs Hebi so if either is town, they have lots of incentive to bomb the other.

I am down for this. I wish I was petrifying Creature but instead I will go full protective mode.

[MathBlade]

I am good with lynching Kokichi.

[MathBlade]

Me too

Ewwww

[MathBlade]

As for leadership

Either [Nero/FA] or [Tora/FA] or [Nero/Tora] imo.

I need to run some errands, I want to get this sorted out in less than 24 hours if possible.

Nero/FA 100% is what I pick of those.

[MathBlade]

I like that plan too. That would mean Nero would have to get a power tonight which leaves one more free.

I would say give it to FA. Mainly Drixx using doctor means that if he dies then Nero’s imho misplaced paranoia is gone and the rest of us turtle up with protectives in case scum are given a bomb

#lovingIt

[MathBlade]

And the last power madam?

[MathBlade]

For the bombing plan.

[Creature, Hebi], [Theta, Gamma], [Nosferatu, TW] [Kokichi]

The pairs one of them will get bomb and kill the other, the solo is who we lynch today.
I paired Creature and Hebi coz Creature SRs Hebi so if either is town, they have lots of incentive to bomb the other.

Now.
Here's a plan.
Nero and FA run for leadership, Nero goes for tracker or self watcher while Drixx protects Nero since Nero cant protect himself, Tora either checks Drixx again or checks Nero and then that will give us a ton of info on what scum may have if a power negate lands somewhere along those lines.

Meanwhile the bombing squad knows what to do.

Quoting both of these to leave them in a single post.

And the last power madam?

I had already planned on FA so we were thinking similarly there.

Now it’s all in one post

[MathBlade]

For the bombing plan.

[Creature, Hebi], [Theta, Gamma], [Nosferatu, TW] [Kokichi]

The pairs one of them will get bomb and kill the other, the solo is who we lynch today.
I paired Creature and Hebi coz Creature SRs Hebi so if either is town, they have lots of incentive to bomb the other.

Now.
Here's a plan.
Nero and FA run for leadership, Nero goes for tracker or self watcher while Drixx protects Nero since Nero cant protect himself, Tora either checks Drixx again or checks Nero and then that will give us a ton of info on what scum may have if a power negate lands somewhere along those lines.

Meanwhile the bombing squad knows what to do.

Quoting both of these to leave them in a single post.

And the last power madam?

I had already planned on FA so we were thinking similarly there.

Now it’s all in one post

@FA please give your thoughts to this plan

[MathBlade]

I'm not sure if I want 3 bombs to explode tomorrow. like thats too many sudden death without time to re-evaluate after flips.

First it would be tonight not tomorrow, as explained before scum can just kill the one with the bomb that is not them.

Second there is no more risk with 3 than 2.

The math works out as we win even if we give all three bombs to scum. There is no reason not to give out all three bombs.

[MathBlade]

I'm not sure if I want 3 bombs to explode tomorrow. like thats too many sudden death without time to re-evaluate after flips.

First it would be tonight not tomorrow, as explained before scum can just kill the one with the bomb that is not them.

Second there is no more risk with 3 than 2.

The math works out as we win even if we give all three bombs to scum. There is no reason not to give out all three bombs.

If we choose scum they won't get the bombs they will get petrification and will kill people later when they can win this without exploding themselves obv. It's a really risky thing to trust that

Also the bombs were not exploding during day? if not the scum might try to frame the bombers using roleblock or something? last night roleblock was offered and there is also a possible power negation in game. who were last night list again?

@Frozen Angel even if all three scum are chosen for bombs and all three choose petrify we still win. All the scum would be confirmed and the last day is a two or three town versus last scum. If even all the scum choose petrify is literally a non factor. I don’t have the exact numbers but I posted them somewhere earlier.

In regards to roleblocks— It is extremely unlikely they had power negate or they could have easily used it in a myriad of ways like blocking Tor or disrupting some prior plans. We have already determined multiple times this is not the case Even if they do and they block one of the bombs going off then there are still two others to mitigate. Scum having two or three power negates would be insane. That scum roleblocker would have to solo an impenetrable townblock. They could say you did the block incorrectly but there is no way said person isn’t properly lynched by someone in the town block.

[MathBlade]

I'm not sure if I want 3 bombs to explode tomorrow. like thats too many sudden death without time to re-evaluate after flips.

First it would be tonight not tomorrow, as explained before scum can just kill the one with the bomb that is not them.

Second there is no more risk with 3 than 2.

The math works out as we win even if we give all three bombs to scum. There is no reason not to give out all three bombs.

If we choose scum they won't get the bombs they will get petrification and will kill people later when they can win this without exploding themselves obv. It's a really risky thing to trust that

Also the bombs were not exploding during day? if not the scum might try to frame the bombers using roleblock or something? last night roleblock was offered and there is also a possible power negation in game. who were last night list again?

@Frozen Angel even if all three scum are chosen for bombs and all three choose petrify we still win. All the scum would be confirmed and the last day is a two or three town versus last scum. If even all the scum choose petrify is literally a non factor. I don’t have the exact numbers but I posted them somewhere earlier.

In regards to roleblocks— It is extremely unlikely they had power negate or they could have easily used it in a myriad of ways like blocking Tor or disrupting some prior plans. We have already determined multiple times this is not the case Even if they do and they block one of the bombs going off then there are still two others to mitigate. Scum having two or three power negates would be insane. That scum roleblocker would have to solo an impenetrable townblock. They could say you did the block incorrectly but there is no way said person isn’t properly lynched by someone in the town block.

Then what are you suggesting?

Titus chose no one else but ank night 2 or that scum didn't choose power negation?

Makes no sense. I think they decided to not use it to get a false clear from ufo - potentially when they were hitting out of power roles or that they used it on shiro/ank the nights they killed them cause that would secure such kills

I am suggesting all three bombs going off has no risk.

If a bomb is given to scum then they have to either A) Suicide on a town which makes them not a problem
Or B) Take petrify
Or C) Be outed with no additional deaths. FA you will not hero negate and Drixx won’t hero doc in the lynch pool so this option is strictly inferior for scum.

Any scum taking option B gets lynched immediately the next day.
Any scum taking option A is already dead.

Therefore any scum given a bomb does option B.

If all three bombs go to scum and all do option B all three scum are outed. Assuming all three petrifications and an NK goes through then there is enough remaining town even with the additional KPN for town to autowin

[MathBlade]

You can't classify a town that is got frozen or power negated from a scum who got petrify and is lurking in shadows apart

At that point, assuming it happens, which has already been established multiple times it can’t, we will know exactly how many scum are left and compare it to the lynch pool.

With most of the lynch pool obliterated again that is not a risk.

[MathBlade]

which has already been established multiple times it can’t

Why it can't happen?!

how did you establish this?!

It's litteraly near certain that a scum with power negation is in the game with titus flip.

No. It’s very likely scum have a power.

It’s unlikely that is power negate due to the townblock not dying and due to Tor getting his check off supposedly. They would have to have holstered three nights in a row for negate. The odds of that are small to infinestimal as noted by others

[MathBlade]

if we can make sure the bombs are used during day then they can explode without us dealing with power negation/freezing at night paranoia crap

Doesn’t work.

The scum just kill one of the people who got the bomb.

Scum will know at the start of night who does and doesn’t get a bomb if they are in that pairing.

[MathBlade]

which has already been established multiple times it can’t

Why it can't happen?!

how did you establish this?!

It's litteraly near certain that a scum with power negation is in the game with titus flip.

No. It’s very likely scum have a power.

It’s unlikely that is power negate due to the townblock not dying and due to Tor getting his check off supposedly. They would have to have holstered three nights in a row for negate. The odds of that are small to infinestimal as noted by others

Makes no sense. why would scum (who had also titus) choose another power over power negate night 2? like how can you assume that? It's WAY more likely that they used power negate with shiro ank kill and holestered last night or used it on stungun to make sure he dies and nothing itefers.

Because Titus is an arrogant scum player who would likely think negate is inherently scummy.

Like this is completely irrational paranoia. It does not make sense.

[MathBlade]

Okay this is ridiculous.
Power Negation lasts into the following day phase as much as BP and Doc protection do as well.
We dont avoid power negation by doing it during the day.

That too lol

[MathBlade]

ok math you veto me I veto you, deal?

wrt the power thing: sure. if I'm elected to receive a power, I'm 100% getting the sui bomb and letting other slots be resolved before setting myself off, unless people want me as leader instead. 1 for 1 is a pretty fantastic deal and everyone should just take it.

the suboptimal use of my power has so far given the best reason anyone has for townreading drixx btw

I could have targeted shiro and be talking with the dead now, and I did forget to send it in n2, but none of that makes my play "so suboptimally it's actually scummy". I think my actions have been fine. I targeted FA, drixx and gamma, and all of those results have given us something to help solve the game. using that as the basis to scumread me is pretty awful but alas, you do you mate.

I do not veto.

I think it solves the horrible uses of powers perfectly if you are one of the bombers.
Your second paragraph sketches me out to be frank. Like “look at this I am ‘helping’” it just feels wrong.

However if town thinks you’re better as leader that is the majority decision and I will respect that. I would just like to be voting the other person nominated. I just don’t think you are a good choice.

Tor offering to blow himself up is obviously a horrible decision but “sketchy”? How? I really don’t see that at all.

The blow himself up part is not the “sketchy” party

It’s the “I am helping” LAMIST that is sketchy.

[MathBlade]

Okay this is ridiculous.
Power Negation lasts into the following day phase as much as BP and Doc protection do as well.
We dont avoid power negation by doing it during the day.

you're right

it should be used at day because we can evaluate based on flips and direct the other suicides with it. it's obviously better than at night.

Except that for the 100th time doesn’t fucking work
Scum just kill the person with the bomb opposite them before they can explode
Or they kill a TvT pairing for the free mislynch.

[MathBlade]

which has already been established multiple times it can’t

Why it can't happen?!

how did you establish this?!

It's litteraly near certain that a scum with power negation is in the game with titus flip.

No. It’s very likely scum have a power.

It’s unlikely that is power negate due to the townblock not dying and due to Tor getting his check off supposedly. They would have to have holstered three nights in a row for negate. The odds of that are small to infinestimal as noted by others

Makes no sense. why would scum (who had also titus) choose another power over power negate night 2? like how can you assume that? It's WAY more likely that they used power negate with shiro ank kill and holestered last night or used it on stungun to make sure he dies and nothing itefers.

Because Titus is an arrogant scum player who would likely think negate is inherently scummy.

Like this is completely irrational paranoia. It does not make sense.

ocaam razor says there is a power negation in game cause titus was scum. And yes the ability is scummy hence why she hide who got that power. If she wnated them to have a towny power she wouldn't choose a hidden scum for the ability.

You can say she didn't give any power to a scum instead of ank then with that logic but yours is built on moon.

Occam’s Razor says they don’t have it since they killed stun over the townblock.
It says Titus gave power to a scum but not who and not what.
And yes she would. She absolutely would and I have a feeling what.

[MathBlade]

I have a hunch that Titus forced a precog believing she would live until Day Three.

This makes sense with some of the reactions from the lynchpool as powers have come up.
I am not a threat as they would have already had it so exposing it to the town when they already know what is coming is just making me waste a power. Then they can try to manipulate my reads versus that.

I don’t think they expected the worst’s suggestion though which makes me no longer the best kill but instead obvTowns in the lynchpool which explains the stun kill last night.

My hunch is scum have precog not power negate. So Titus could try to be one step ahead.

But when scum lost their mastermind they were fucked.

[MathBlade]

It also explains her flailing so fucking hard

She wanted the info to manipulate us like pawns.

However scum lack a mastermind and a power negate more than likely due to her arrogance.

[MathBlade]

If anyone had the negate it was Titus and a buddy probably had it in the background and gave her the answer so she would look townie. Because town Titus takes powers to “break” games.

[MathBlade]

Had precog*

[MathBlade]

btw how do we know titus had precog? someone used mimickry on her, right?

No.

The only reason we think she did is she said the powers first.

She likely used me to confirm she took precog but had a hidden buddy whisper the powers in a scum PT and then knowing me knew I would take it and then had me “confirm” she did while she actually had negate

The floundering of Titus meant that she couldn’t go down as she had negate
Her pointing out Creature was a vanilla scum to buy her time and one of the other two buddies had precog.

Pedit @Tor the night it was available

[MathBlade]

Night two @Tor

[MathBlade]

what does titus mean with "there was no hood" when referring to drixx in that post?

I think she meant the superhero team didn’t get a hood

[MathBlade]

so

I believe titus picked precog because she'd otherwise risk outing herself if anyone decided to use mimickry on her.

I believe drixx is always town and was not secretly chosen by titus on n2 because drixx would either use his n2 power (like power negate for instance), or pick something that can be remotely useful as scum instead of impenetrable skin.

wrt ank, if she did get a power and was still killed that night, and titus tried to play the long run, that might mean one of two things: either all the other wolves are highly POE'd down and titus was the only one who could go deep, meaning she'd sacrifice her team, give them nothing, townside the whole game and hopefully snatch a win; or her original list actually has scum in it and there's scum deeply infiltrated in towncore. I'm leaning towards the former because there's no sign that scum actually used any night powers other than the kill, and they seem to be happy keeping me alive with mimickry.

If she got obvTowned it wouldn’t matter.

Secondly it’s hardly a risk. Titus was scummy as fuck there is no way a cop or a mimic checks someone they think scummy. They check the null reads. The townblock only gets checked in cases of extreme paranoia.

Thirdly I agree with that if she did take precog and was honest it’s sll PoE burn.

[MathBlade]

This is quite literally the same problem from the day petrification was offered the first time.
Like I do not understand your answer.
A sanity check includes WHY and the rational points of interaction.
Mafia is inherently a game of risk.
There is nothing we can be certain over but I feel the plan I suggested minimizes that risk.

Okay. I'll lay it out as clearly as I can. Please remember that I try and think of the worst possible case, and I also got burned by not being pessimistic enough before.

I actually messed up the math yesterday because the bombs were an extra day further away.

15 alive today. Worst case scenario we get:

Mislynch today, kill tonight. Three bombs go off and are all townies killing townies. That's 8 out of 15 dead leaving us at 4v3 tomorrow once the bombs go off. We

should

win in that case unless you are scum (because even if you leave me alive that long I won't be able to win a 1v1 with you at this point and the whole game would agree with that).

But here's the problem (and the thing I really didn't feel like I should say). We have been

assuming

we know why kills went through on people who had access to BP. It's plausible that our assumptions are correct. It's also possible that there's something in play we're not aware of. I cannot put together a sound premise/conclusion combination for our assumption set.

So let's say that we assign 3 people to get the suicide vest and 2 of them blow up and both they and their targets are town. The third person; however, claims to have attempted to do their blow up and it doesn't happen. At that point we're going to have 9 people alive. So what are the possibilities in that case?

1.) The person is telling the truth and is town. -- We lynch them on the assumption they are lying and they flip green. We are then at 5v3 going into the night. Night kill happens. We have a 4v3 the next day.

So we just lynch the target of that mislynch right?

See the problem yet?

As I said before: I'm not trying to overrule people who have put more time than me into this game. If everyone weighs it and they're good with the plan, then let's get it on.

I see what you’re saying. However I do not feel it as a problem because of the sheer bullshit that would have to be for that to be the case.
1) Creature would have to be town. A point no one is really arguing that not even Creature. He just wants to die.
2) Should someone claim to be negated we look at those two players specifically for that day’s lynch no one is saying lynch blind.
3) If both happen to be town then scum were so far deep the 2/3 lynches and kills would be the same as if it was played out. Scum continue to kill within the lynch pool.
4) We would have to have a scum team consisting of just 3 of FA Sakura you Nancy Tor and Nero. I am comfortable making that bet as very few of the other players are posting. If that is all the scum they deserve it.

@Nero - My base asumption at the moment is that scum are outside the generally accepted town block. Given the amount of posts and replacements, I don't think it's possible with the time available to me at the moment for me to go try and go down that rabbit hole, so at the moment (during night phase and as I can now) I'm reassessing the people who are generally accepted as town and making sure I have good reasons to agree with those assessments.

Do you have anyone in particular you want a Drixx take on?

[MathBlade]

@math: if titus got obtown'ed that would still matter because she would still be at risk of getting outed by ank

also a mimic isn't a cop, and titus certainly didn't think no one would check her for being too scummy, since she townsided heavily on d3. she certainly planned on going deep or her d3 makes no sense.

Fair enough.

[MathBlade]

It also explains her flailing so fucking hard

She wanted the info to manipulate us like pawns.

However scum lack a mastermind and a power negate more than likely due to her arrogance.

You really think scum is failing too because it doesn’t look like it to me?

Titus flailed hard and her lynch came down to the wire

[MathBlade]

If anyone had the negate it was Titus and a buddy probably had it in the background and gave her the answer so she would look townie. Because town Titus takes powers to “break” games.

Oh so you’re saying Titus had negate and her buddy fed her precog?

I dunno. But why was Shiro killed then - other then probably not using his bp? Why would scum kill Shiro to hide Ank not getting a power? Sorry but this really doesn’t making any freaking sense.

There is your answer right there.

If Titus was scum and did the thing we think she did, Ank is a guilty on her and cannot be allowed to speak. Hence Ank death.

Then scum kill Shiro either of Tor’s worlds gets killed because he can talk to the dead and the dead whichever of Tor’s worlds it is breaks it wide open.

[MathBlade]

killing toogeloo probably just means scum doesn't have ways to counter bulletproof because they're not getting any powers

Again which is why three bombs is entirely safe.

The only reason it wouldn’t be is if scum is all in the townblock in which case G fucking G because I don’t think there is any reasonable way FA Sakura Drixx or Nancy are scum here.

If all three of them are this good then kudos to them. They deserve a scummy.

[MathBlade]

Ergo I think it is a risk to have the three bomb plan but it is a risk so well motivated as to be almost zero.

[MathBlade]

btw how do we know titus had precog? someone used mimickry on her, right?

No.

The only reason we think she did is she said the powers first.

She likely used me to confirm she took precog but had a hidden buddy whisper the powers in a scum PT and then knowing me knew I would take it and then had me “confirm” she did while she actually had negate

The floundering of Titus meant that she couldn’t go down as she had negate
Her pointing out Creature was a vanilla scum to buy her time and one of the other two buddies had precog.

Pedit @Tor the night it was available

Then why Shiro kill? Ank claims she didn’t get a power and Scum kills Shiro to hide a power that can only be tracked in the case of Mimicry, which scum didn’t even know anyone even had until D4? Then why did Stun die over UFO because Mimicry is the only way to track Precognition.

Shiro kill would have been power based only and wine The dead talking whether Ank or a later kill would likely have significant impact as time went on. Shiro was likely the kill and should have taken/used BP that night to live.

[MathBlade]

d2 or d3

Please find it

[MathBlade]

Look at night 1 powers. If I was scum I would choose medium and do exactly what shiro did for free credit. or maybe I would go with phasing again but it would be worthless unless if people were considering to kill me. the free towncred looks more beneficial

I'll let you in on a secret, FA

on n1, I chose mimicry and used on you. I got the same results cerb got: you didn't do any action.

IDK what action I'd use as scum but what shiro is doing is very helpful to town even if shiro is scum, which I no longer believe in and am surprised you are still so suspicious of her. don't you find shiro's overrall behaviour in the thread towny? even the fact that she is shading you looks objectively towny to me...

d3

So then mimicry wouldn’t have been input into Titus’s actions. Ergo the point stands she likely had negate and had to survive. And when she didn’t scum’s world fell apart and it became a battle of attrition. With scum always knowing what was coming up.

[MathBlade]

*Sigh*

Nancy what are your reads and how many bombs do you think is acceptable?

[MathBlade]

killing toogeloo probably just means scum doesn't have ways to counter bulletproof because they're not getting any powers

Don’t you mean Stun?

yeah lol

So then 3 bombs @Tor?

[MathBlade]

I thought we were lynching me. What happened? I dont wanna get to lylo and then you guys decide to lynch me

I thought we were too.

Yet people talk around the plan instead of talking about it.
People decide to want to go with less than 3 bombs because it is safer in case there is scum in the townblock.
Except Sakura would then give the powers not given out via bombs to that same town block and we lose because the scum in the townblock wins due to petrify and counting down the fucking kills.
And if we say no powers given out then if Sakura is scum she just wins.

Therefore we can safely establish Sakura is town or this game is likely just fucking over.

And Sakura suggested the people for the three bombs.
So unless you have a DAMN good reason why the fuck we should not be doing this three bomb plan and this increasing risk speak up now.

Otherwise it is a matter of determining who gets the freaking bombs.

[MathBlade]

But Ank kill happened N2, so extremely likely Titus was gambiting on Shiro visiting Ank claim.

shiro only outed the hood with cerberus on d3 afaict. that means scum didn't know who, if anyone, had precognition. however, for titus to have a different power and give precognition to a scum team mate, she would have to ignore both mimickry and the power to hood a dead player as ways to eventually out her, which is why I think this is unlikely to be the case.

Me: Hey guys let’s do three bombs it’s the safest mathematically
Drixx: The only way we lose in that scenario is if like universal scum in town block.
FA/Tor: Nah we’re just gonna ignore that and just give more chances for the scum in the townblock to massacre us with Petrify.
Me: *facepalm*

[MathBlade]

Will you stop bullshiting mathblade?

I just posted my concern with this to make sure it has no flaws.

Grrrrrr

I am just annoyed. I spent like forever on this and that’s what it feels like people are doing. It is not bullshitting.

I am just summarizing what I understand the argument to be and how ridiculous on this.

Like Drixx someone whose mechanics opinion I value greatly sees it only going wrong in a once in a moon shot and it requires me being scum which I am not.

I am just pissed.

[MathBlade]

and facepalm as much as you want. we need a good list of players for getting the bombs and choosing 2 risky players is way better than choosing 3 risky players to hold the bombs.

No it damn well ISNT.

The only way we lose is if all three scum get bombs.
The odds of that are infinestimally small if we all work together on it.

The main paranoia is scum in the townblock with the plan.
Reducing the number of bombs does NOT address that paranoia because in that case they just petrify and win the game.

[MathBlade]

Yeah and your comment made me pissed off.

Like the hell is wrong with you?

We're finding a plan that will kill 6 players instantly. If we fuck up even in slightest its a fucking gg

So yes ofcourse we will talk about it and it's possible flaws.

I have spent for fucking ever on this.

And then you say the “safer” plan is the one that for all intents actually isn’t.

Like I proposed this yesterday and there was no issues except Drixx. And he has yet to bring up an issue with it.

I am just so beyond pissed I can’t talk straight.

Sakura wanted this done in 24 hours and I feel like no one is actually fucking listening to what I am saying.

[MathBlade]

An issue that isn’t an acceptable risk*

[MathBlade]

and facepalm as much as you want. we need a good list of players for getting the bombs and choosing 2 risky players is way better than choosing 3 risky players to hold the bombs.

No it damn well ISNT.

The only way we lose is if all three scum get bombs.
The odds of that are infinestimally small if we all work together on it.

The main paranoia is scum in the townblock with the plan.
Reducing the number of bombs does NOT address that paranoia because in that case they just petrify and win the game.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BOMBS

IF we have 9 players alive and 3 scum with petrification it's a game over.

sure we must work together which is what I was talking about

propose me a list that has not more than 1 scum in it preferably with 3 people who better die at this point - killing 3 other scummy players.

Sakura’s plan. That’s the one I endorse.

[MathBlade]

And it’s actually more than 9.

God damn it

No one actually read my math posts

[MathBlade]

Assume for case and point all three scum take petrify tonight and are outed and use all three petrify shots
4 Kills (3 petrifies and NK)
Next night 3 kills
Next night 2 kills
Then two town must remain for a lylo with the third outed scum
The proper number is 11

That’s the best I can summarize.

I am at work and my lunch break is over.

[MathBlade]

That means there would also be 0 deaths from the bombs because all the scum take and use petrify.

[MathBlade]

With 12 town alive RIGHT NOW
Picking 3 scum with the bombs is literally not an issue

12 > 11

[MathBlade]

wow we have 15 alive now?

Correct

[MathBlade]

@Tor for the love of all that is townie why?!?!?!

[MathBlade]

math did you out your choices?

Yes I did.

They were FA Sakura Drixx Nancy Stun and myself

I really gotta go

[MathBlade]

how would the scum with petrify be outed? how can they be for sure scum? we might be dealing with a power negated/frozen town so include a chance for mislynch there. will we have a chance to find the last scum with petrify?

Because they didn’t blow up.

The answer is there is always a scum in that duo.

Either the victim or the trigger

The odds of scum having negate is ridiculously low.

We would have an entire townblock against likely st most one scum. If we can’t find one scum out of one we deserve to lose

[MathBlade]

Power Echo: Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.
**Self-Detonation: Target another player. Both you and that player will die.

^^^^ this is the game we're playing here folks

Oh goddamn it

Time to redo the math after work

[MathBlade]

That actually is redicolous. for power echoing all the town bombers we need 3 power echo. I think power echo was available in another night to

Can anyone make a table?

Tonight I can.

Make a post and put @MathBlade and what you want in it.

[MathBlade]

tell me what's wrong with this idea:

we have the lock town players getting powers

we have one of these players using self detonate on a target

we have all the other players using power echo on the self detonate player, and direct it to other targets

what's the flaw in this?

We miss the scum.

And it actually kills less in the pool than the Suicide of ebil plan and depending upon how power echo works can neutralize the town block

And if scum has negate they just negate the original suicide

[MathBlade]

I want a table listing all abilities which were presented so far and the people who could have access to them in a list

I mean beside the misterious person instead of ank who is a ? we should have a clear map of who has what sort of abilities.

@FA okay. Tonight

[MathBlade]

Math I will literally kill you irl if you petrify anyone unless if only one scum is remaining. Hopefully there is also a healer around to revert the effect then for a safe victory

What a joy to come back to this.

FA this post is way over a line. I get that you and I disagree on setup. You have officially killed my will to care about anything in this game. I understand you are a passionate player. I know you as a person and I don’t think you would actually do this. However the mere fact you would threaten my in body persona of a game in order to win it is downright disgusting.

Especially to someone who you believe is on your own team. You made your points earlier and I said I was fine with bombing Creature if no Petrification. I took SS in order to try to trick scum into wasting a negate on me because I figured Sakura and you were higher priority targets.

However if I am going to be treated like the person behind the keyboard is not worth breaking simply for a different mechanical stance then even though I think Sakura’s plan is the best I withdraw my support for it. Right now I am trying to convince myself to care about this game as a whole.

If the townblock is going to threaten any voice that disagrees with bodily harm or other things that cross site rules I would rather have fun than continue to discuss the point. It won’t change my belief.

However that being said if we aren’t doing 3 doing none is the safer option after three. Two still doesn’t alleviate the townblock problem (neither does any but zero is still a little bit more risky than three)

Risk ordering: three zero one two

And for those of you who wish to know I am town I have literally nothing to offer you. I have not played this game to townfirm myself only to try to help us win. I broke down all of the math and the numbers and asked several times for input from people who I knew mechanics knowledge are sound and they did not provide a flaw other than what is in the town block.

I just really don’t care right now.

If anyone has any questions let me know. Otherwise I am checking out of this thread before I become a pile of mush.

[MathBlade]

which has already been established multiple times it can’t

Why it can't happen?!

how did you establish this?!

It's litteraly near certain that a scum with power negation is in the game with titus flip.

No. It’s very likely scum have a power.

It’s unlikely that is power negate due to the townblock not dying and due to Tor getting his check off supposedly. They would have to have holstered three nights in a row for negate. The odds of that are small to infinestimal as noted by others

Makes no sense. why would scum (who had also titus) choose another power over power negate night 2? like how can you assume that? It's WAY more likely that they used power negate with shiro ank kill and holestered last night or used it on stungun to make sure he dies and nothing itefers.

Because Titus is an arrogant scum player who would likely think negate is inherently scummy.

Like this is completely irrational paranoia. It does not make sense.

ocaam razor says there is a power negation in game cause titus was scum. And yes the ability is scummy hence why she hide who got that power. If she wnated them to have a towny power she wouldn't choose a hidden scum for the ability.

You can say she didn't give any power to a scum instead of ank then with that logic but yours is built on moon.

oh god you've been saying this.

yes there was power negation! because ank died and titus was scum.

if titus had it or if power negation is sitting with a hidden scum player we don't know. stun's NK points at no power negation, which actually makes mathblade scum a lot here, as for titus to have power negation, at least one of her scumbuddies need to have picked precog in her place. and math picked precog.

I'm actually really uneasy that math (who picked precog n2, who gave stun power the same night wolves unexplicably NKed him) is also the loudest one about a ridiculously dangerous bombing idea that ultimately only benefits scum.

Can u guys parse a list for me of who's pro plan and who isnt like this

3 Bombs: Nero, Math
2 Bombs: FA
1 Bomb:
0 Bombs (basically no blow ups): Drixx

I promise ill take your opinions in mind over my own, and we can also use this as information to analyse.
Also leaders Nero and FA, choose who you want to vote. Tomorrow if we dont have 3 bombers then ill adjust my team list accordingly.

Put me down as I don’t give a fuck.

Because I really don’t anymore.

[MathBlade]

We have town going off the rails from a townblock I helped build.
We have people screaming at each other that they shouldn’t be alive.

We have drowned out all the voices we need to actually listen to.
We aren’t even asking questions to each other anymore we’re just talking mechanics.

It’s just not worth it.

[MathBlade]

@Nero - I'd appreciate a concise and specific list after the game of what is "bad" and what is "scummy" and why. Bad needs fixing. Scummy to casual view I don't give a shit about. My job isn't to be the most obvious townie who ever towned and get myself night killed straightaway. Especially since I'm hilariously bad on day one. It's basically a signature of Drixx play that you are going to suspect me.

I can throw out posts which tend to result in town recognizing me. I've done so this game and most of the folks I believe are probably town seem to believe the same about me. That's sufficient for my purposes. As long as I can advance our win con, I don't mind dying from paranoia when it's safe for that to happen.

This is how I feel.

I don’t see anything I am doing that is “bad” or all of a sudden worth death threats or just needing affirmation.

I am right here and people can talk with me. I also don’t mind dying for the cause so to speak but please at least give me something I can interact with. I have been bending over backwards to do this the MS way with townblocks because of the setup. I feel like I am being penalized for being open honest and transparent.

[MathBlade]

I will check back in a hour maybe two. If someone has something for me to interact with I will.

[MathBlade]

you were trying to nuke the game and give scum a bunch of kills if there's scum infiltrated in towncore

your mechanics would potentially lose us the game

that it took me so long to start figuring out the mechanics of this game is on me but you are doing this bombing plan over my dead body

I already said I withdrew my support.

And three scum with power echo would be insane.

And if it would make FA feel better I can submit a precog here and now. Then everyone knows I am not using petrify.

[MathBlade]

I'll investigate how you brought this idea up.

The worst did.

Not me I enhanced it to try to be safer.

*leaves the thread*

[MathBlade]

I'll investigate how you brought this idea up.

The worst did.

Not me I enhanced it to try to be safer.

*leaves the thread*

don't be like that math :/

at some point you went from merely suggesting and not liking it to being extremely confident it would work. It CAN work, but we're not doing this cause it's gross and potentially game throwing. the setup benefits town. unnecessary kills are bad.

That some point was when I promised I would look into it and did and made formulas with excel sheets I could just plug and play numbers from.

I didn’t think of the power echo perspective. It didn’t cross my mind I am sorry. The reason I was so confident was because I put in all sorts of possibilities and no matter what it said we lose only if the core block had scum. I shouldn’t have been that forceful even though I thought I was right. I don’t have time to do the echo calculations now.

I still think three scum with power echo is unlikely but this is an actual mechanical concern that needs to be accounted for.

[MathBlade]

@Sando:

Please stay out of this.

@FA:

While I know you outside of MS, I did report that. I actually almost didn’t because I knew you outside of MS and then thought about it and asked why. I was in a dark spot with that commentFA. What was done was outside the code of conduct and left me in a really dark spot. MS is the place I come to to escape that.

That being said you’re clearly sorry about it. (I reported it before your apology) Let’s move on and play, please.

@Sando: Thoughts on plans so far?

[MathBlade]

I used the exclamation button. So all of them?

I know we are...like I know you didn’t mean to but you did. There isn’t exactly an “unreport” button.

[MathBlade]

I dunno maybe because I have been threatened to be murdered before online and in person

Like please just ugh. That was bad. I will send a PM saying I believe you’re sorry but there is no unreport button

[MathBlade]

I have PMed the mod and I would rather not discuss some of the parts of my troubled past here.

Just please let’s get back to mafia.

[MathBlade]

You have to tho, as much as I can see you're truly sorry I cannot really endorse continuing to talk about this in the thread instead of the actual game.
But next time if you have an issue with a player in the game should just contact the game mod first, i think.

So does anyone have any further opinions on any of the bombing plans or being against them?

I am for whatever plan is majority.

@FA I said I did. Move on and play mafia please

[MathBlade]

Like i'm thinking if we cant really get a consensual decission because we keep arguing about the pros and cons and everyone just keeps saying the same thing then we arent going to progress. Most of the people in the apocalypse squad seem to be okay with it, Tora and Drixx dont, and Math, Nero and FA seem to be pro plan.

Kokichi has sorta dissapeared and has stated that not getting a power makes him not want to do anything, which is really childish if he's actually town.

Can you please change me to “whatever everyone agrees upon” Tora had a good point and I am not as confident as I was until I look at some power combos I hadn’t considered.

[MathBlade]

Mainly I wanna review the circumstances Toranaga is mentioning.

[MathBlade]

And i firmly believe as long as we dont screw up with powers then scum will also never be able to kill us.

This I agree with.

Mainly I was so gung-ho about the bombs because I didn’t see a way it could fail.

[MathBlade]

I can't just move on

why can't you understand.

I'm getting perma banned for something that was not even what should it look like.

Please try to reread how we reached the point I said that last night and try to see the sarcasm and exageration in that post. Please math. I NEVER SWEAR on my parents. I litteraly never does that.

As I never post sarcastic comments about killing others ever NOwhere

Like its mafia game. It's a game. I know that. I don't want to be perma banned like a looser 2 month after getting unbanned and making promises. I didn't mean to offend you and I didn't try to. I appoloigize that you got offended but please

I don’t know why you’re pleading to me.

I PM’d the mods asking to unreport. There is literally nothing else I can do that I know of.

Please PM the mods and get back to playing.

[MathBlade]

I have said I have several times.

Continuing to plead with me when I have done all I can is just gonna bring the thread down.

[MathBlade]

Nancy beat me to it but lets all talk about our reads on Worst, Nost, Theta and Kolchi. I feel like those are the 4 "towniest" in the POE pool.

Please explain why to me so I can read it when I wake up.

I think Sakura has the right idea.

[MathBlade]

Just saying, I’m also okay going along with the majority but I do think if we’re going to give players bombs, we should carefully assess whom we’re giving them too, which is why I reposted Nero’s quote, because giving the bombs to the wrong payers would be a disaster for town but if we can carefully decide which players would be the most trustworthy with the bombs, it could possibly make all the difference but it cannot be random. It absolutely has to be a very careful decision - one too critical to the gamestate to be arbitrarily rushed.

I mean.
I do not trust myself to be handled with the responsibility of giving the bombs to exactly 3 townies in the lynchpool (specially if half of it is town), if giving power to 1 scum can screw everything up i'd prefer to operate on the safe side.

Then no bombs it is.

*Goes to sleep.*

[MathBlade]

Here's Mathblades progression on the precog stuff:

Do you think there is any scenario that is not accounted in those 4?

One thing that occurred to me about our assumptions about the negation, there's no guarantee that Math/Titus have precog if they're scum. If we somehow conclude that scum have negate, they're not ruled out, they could be being fed precog info by other members of the scumteam.

So who exactly is Titus supposed to conspire with?

Second of all fake claiming is stupid if you’re scum. Like I don’t know if a “powers cop” is gonna come up. I mean if scum wanna be stupid let them. As for me I have Precog 100%

If anyone has a lie detector come up they can check if

I gotta drive home but let’s not go down the rabbit hole of paranoia.

This is directed at me, it's the very next post after me, check post numbers.

So who exactly is Titus supposed to conspire with?

You for one...

This isn't conspiracy, I'm not using this to say either of you are scum, or suggesting we go down any rabbit hole. I'm just pointing out that you and Titus aren't necessarily cleared of negation as a power. Oh the humanity, I know.

*le sigh*

I am pretty sure Titus/Sando/stun isn’t a thing but my gut is screaming it is

So I left it at that, but now:

She likely used me to confirm she took precog but had a hidden buddy whisper the powers in a scum PT and then knowing me knew I would take it and then had me “confirm” she did while she actually had negate

Oh, and:

so

I believe titus picked precog because she'd otherwise

risk outing herself if anyone decided to use mimickry on her

.

I believe drixx is always town and was not secretly chosen by titus on n2 because drixx would either use his n2 power (like power negate for instance), or pick something that can be remotely useful as scum instead of impenetrable skin.

wrt ank, if she did get a power and was still killed that night, and titus tried to play the long run, that might mean one of two things: either all the other wolves are highly POE'd down and titus was the only one who could go deep, meaning she'd sacrifice her team, give them nothing, townside the whole game and hopefully snatch a win; or her original list actually has scum in it and there's scum deeply infiltrated in towncore. I'm leaning towards the former because there's no sign that scum actually used any night powers other than the kill, and they seem to be happy keeping me alive with mimickry.

If she got obvTowned it wouldn’t matter.

Secondly it’s hardly a risk. Titus was scummy as fuck there is no way a cop or a mimic checks someone they think scummy. They check the null reads. The townblock only gets checked in cases of extreme paranoia.

Thirdly I agree with that if she did take precog and was honest it’s sll PoE burn.

So from "fakeclaiming is stupid" to "it's hardly a risk".

Yes, I changed my opinion after reviewing the facts in regards to Creature.

I understand Tora’s paranoia because I openly claimed Precog but I would never try to confirm Titus or connect myself to Titus in any way if I was scum. I am good scum for a reason and that would be a bad play if I was scum.

If I was scum with Titus, Titus and Titus was an important PR Titus would be all “Math don’t bus me. I can get out of this” or “Hey we already lost someone day one please don’t bus me yet” in a scum PT.

Assuming I am scum furthermore requires that yet another unnamed person got powers then in which case like why hasn’t the townblock been massacred? As Drixx pointed out my standing is good therefore if scum I could have easily secured 2-4 mislynches in the townblock and then made the game damn near mountainous and still get nominated leader.

I am going to be V/LA today but like please don’t go down the rabbit hole people. Tora’s case is pure paranoia there is nothing there to interact with. Titus as scum would know I would take precog.

[MathBlade]

Catching up now.

Is there anything that is immediate?

[MathBlade]

Math I will literally kill you irl if you petrify anyone unless if only one scum is remaining. Hopefully there is also a healer around to revert the effect then for a safe victory

What a joy to come back to this.

FA this post is way over a line. I get that you and I disagree on setup. You have officially killed my will to care about anything in this game. I understand you are a passionate player. I know you as a person and I don’t think you would actually do this. However the mere fact you would threaten my in body persona of a game in order to win it is downright disgusting.

Especially to someone who you believe is on your own team. You made your points earlier and I said I was fine with bombing Creature if no Petrification. I took SS in order to try to trick scum into wasting a negate on me because I figured Sakura and you were higher priority targets.

However if I am going to be treated like the person behind the keyboard is not worth breaking simply for a different mechanical stance then even though I think Sakura’s plan is the best I withdraw my support for it. Right now I am trying to convince myself to care about this game as a whole.

If the townblock is going to threaten any voice that disagrees with bodily harm or other things that cross site rules I would rather have fun than continue to discuss the point. It won’t change my belief.

However that being said if we aren’t doing 3 doing none is the safer option after three. Two still doesn’t alleviate the townblock problem (neither does any but zero is still a little bit more risky than three)

Risk ordering: three zero one two

And for those of you who wish to know I am town I have literally nothing to offer you. I have not played this game to townfirm myself only to try to help us win. I broke down all of the math and the numbers and asked several times for input from people who I knew mechanics knowledge are sound and they did not provide a flaw other than what is in the town block.

I just really don’t care right now.

If anyone has any questions let me know. Otherwise I am checking out of this thread before I become a pile of mush.

I took SS.

Now UFO I have a serious question for you. Are you gonna blow up on me tonight? Because I think having a suicide bomb go off in the town core is exactly what scum want. I figure I'd like a chance to make a last will of sorts if you are and I have a work project and RL I have to focus on in the next few days. I'm going to catch up here see where things are at and if there's anything I need to address, but I'd like to know if these are likely a bit of last words so to speak or if you're not. I think that if we use the bombs at all we need to use them in a smart way. And I would like to know if you're blowing me up so I know how to plan my RL schedule accordingly.

[MathBlade]

let me explain to you very succintly why this sucks

1 - scum was elected leader on n1 and we don't know how many wolves got powers that day. we don't know what their powers are. we don't know who titus gave power to instead of ankamius.
2 - if scum slipped into the towncore as well, then they have a lot of powers by now and can absolutely fuck our "bombing plan" up in many ways.
3 - scum can negate, redirect, amplify or BP themselves against the suicides
4 - flipping everyone in a POE and then determine that whoever we don't flip is scum does not fucking work cause there will be situations where scum just WIFOMs the fuck out of it
5 - we are playing a horribly townsided setup where we elect a leader and we know the majority of players who got powers and which powers are those. we have informative, protective and other types of abilities that will always lead to a town win as long as we don't fuck this up. we benefit from playing slowly because we gain a ton of information every gameday. we control the abilities. we bulletproof our towniest people. nuking an entire POE that's actually way too big and could be wrong is the fucking worst plan ever.

so please the worst, you just stop this mate. I know you're bored with the game and want to nuke everyone. that's not the proper way to play this though, and I'm not gonna stand by it.

I'm especially not gonna stand by it when that was also FA's opinion and unfortunately she had to not be in this game anymore cause mathblade's AtE. which honestly is pretty disgusting if you're scum, math. I hope you're not. I think you might be.

Hang on a second here.

My AtE was not disgusting. First of all, you don't know me. And you don't know the IRL shit I have been through. Online and IRL I have been the victim of several IRL attacks. That post was after calming down a bit. FA was freaking out over being reported. There are site rules for a reason. Independent of my alignment (hint it's town) I am well within my rights to not just take threats to my life idly by for how I am playing a fucking game. There are disagreements. There will always be disagreements as this is mafia. I should NOT have to come online to see posting that makes me want to curl in a corner and hide. Even if I was scum (hint I'm not) I absolutely make the posting I have done with no regrets. FA IMHO completely understood that crossed a line and apologized. That may be cool where she is, but it is not cool on MS. I come here to play with friends. Not try to figure out whether a death threat is legitimate. I can take being called stupid, dumb, my plans idiotic. That's fine. That's why I opened them up to examination.

It's why I freaking suggested the town block that I helped suggest to Sakura in the goddamn first place take BP and SS so that way nothing short of a miracle could get through. Because I have faith in this town. Now as scum (which I'm not) why the ever lovingfuck would I make an army of confirmed town that I can't kill? I specifically devised that plan in mind so that scum would have to out that specific night and you could even fucking validate that I use precog that night. Like I understand paranoia, but calling me disgusting for that?

I have yet to see a case here or anything of the sort to interact with here at all. The reason we are in this state is because I am bending over backwards to make sure to try to be cooperative yet at the same time argue for what I think is best.

For me to be scum I would have to have a death wish:

A) Inextricably link myself to Titus despite "bussing" her ("bussing" is in quotes as it's literally impossible for me to bus as I am town)
B) Make sure everyone who knows my scum meta is unkillable so at any time they could “out” me if I ever repeat it.
C) Argue for a plan well beyond it’s “agreeable” point thus highlighting my slot
D) Willingly share powers the day before instead of saying "No! I need to be BP." or "Help me be protected".
E) Not anticipate all power avenues and sort them out accordingly. That's something I always do as scum.
F) Advocate for this specific block when asked about it multiple times by Sakura

Like I don't understand your case on me, I don't understand why you're suspicious about the bombs, and I don't understand anything you're saying and quite frankly each time I read it I feel like my brain is in a blender.

[MathBlade]

wait math, you said you took SS?

did you use precog last night? if so, what are tomorrow's powers?

I couldn't use any powers last night.

I used Precog during the day which will register as being used during the last day night cycle.

I have not used it yet today.

[MathBlade]

Colored Fruit Vendor
Petrification
Reflexive Power Mimicry (in other words you get hit with a power you get it)
Power Echo
Self Detonation (available during the day)
Tracker

Still at work people

I used it during the day.
This is literally the list of powers.
It will register as showing up at night. That's in the description of precog. You only validated that I indeed fucking used it.

Which the first post tells you about.

[MathBlade]

mathblade is scum.

read SS:

*Super Strength: Any actions you take this Night Phase cannot be blocked or manipulated.

THIS NIGHT PHASE.

he says he picked SS and didn't even use a night action. he strongmanned nothing? that's bullshit. mathblade is lying.

Again, I took it so I could 100% petrify Creature. I took a look at the Sakura meta and I believed it. So I formulated a plan that I thought best to help us win and I argued for it. This is something you would have brought up the first time. I have no regrets over the actions I chose. I did them and I pitched my plan and it was rejected.

[MathBlade]

I literally CAN'T have done anything else. Explain how I'm "caught" when I'm outright open and outed as using Precog. Dude.. You're like literally grasping at straws here.

So you're either scum or need to chill the fuck out take your goddamn pick. Because you make no sense right now.

[MathBlade]

If you believe I am scum, which again I am not, I am one of the best scum players deserving of this paranoia for a reason. You need to sit the fuck down and rationally make an argument.
You're going to have to address the points that I have mentioned to you and explain how exactly I am being scum, because these "aha" gotcha posts are not going to do anything. It's in town's best interest to help sort me so we can confirm that I indeed did give stun a power and then can IMHO resolve a majority of what is going on.

So please if you still think I'm scum then go back and make a case. Everyone will be better off for it.

[MathBlade]

Also, as long as we don’t no lynch, Sakura is immune from all killing abilities.

Not tomorrow, Drixx concern is that if i give bomb to scum, they can just take me out at the start of the next day phase instead of during the night.
Also im still not sure on the use of the bomb, but if i DO use it, the player that has the superpower will be hidden until tomorrow, so Drixx should still protect Nero, and if scum wants to shoot into the lynchpool to try to hit him then they are helping us thin the lynchpool anyway.

If they take you out with a triggered activation, you cannot confirm to whom you offered powers, which could leave a nifty mess in the morning ... especially since you were at one point talking about non-specific pairing. Sure you can say ahead of time but ... that's just the tip of the iceberg on shenanigans. That's what I felt like I could say because there's an obvious way to prevent it being a huge deal and if scum want to trade out 1-for-1 then that's fine.

There's a whole host of other things.

You taking bomb and setting it off at night while you cannot die seems like a clever usage. I'm wondering why it took quite this long for anyone to get there but whatever. That also means I can doc someone who also takes it and sets it off at night. That person basically becomes the scum kill choice though I would think.

Still ... if we can pull it of that takes the downside out of the suicide bomb. You can't die and I can keep someone else from dying.

So wait what's the idea? Sorry I'm catching up. I'm having to put in some insane hours at work for a deadline. I'd like a chance to know what's going on and to make sure we're not doing something silly.

[MathBlade]

@Drixx

I can find one slight issue with that.

Most suicide bombs require the user to die.

I would make sure we ask the mod if the effect still fires if the first person lives and that a suicide bomb isn’t voluntarily giving up protection.

If the mod says yes the bomb still fires and Sakura’s immunity is still intact I am all for that.

[MathBlade]

2. I will only answer questions about a Superpower for the first Day and Night Phase after it has been revealed.

This is true.

What I have found to help with this rule is to ask a complicated question that involves one of the new powers.

The immunity itself is off the table as that has been revealed.

However what is not off the table is asking how suicide bomber and immunity interact as suicide bombers as suicide bomber is in the list of powers revealed today.

[MathBlade]

mathblade is scum.

read SS:

*Super Strength: Any actions you take this Night Phase cannot be blocked or manipulated.

THIS NIGHT PHASE.

he says he picked SS and didn't even use a night action. he strongmanned nothing? that's bullshit. mathblade is lying.

You are misunderstanding the power description.

SS has that effect

whenever you use it

. When you take the power, you do not automatically use it. You acquire a power each time the leader puts you on the team. You may choose one power to use. I have two now, for example. Anyone who took SS will get that benefit

the night phase in which it is in effect BECAUSE THEY USED IT

.

It's not a "I have this other power so I take SS and it empowers my normal power just this one night" thing.

ah, right. I did misinterpret it.

math, you can use precog today right?

Sure can.

I just haven’t yet because we are still planning stuff. I am still reading but I have no problem using it once we are settled.

[MathBlade]

math, do you think titus took precog or faked it?

I know someone on her team took it, else what happened day two doesn't happen. Titus hates being blind so it makes sense she would prioritize that. I think it's more likely she faked it and a buddy picked it up based on how she tried to survive EOD.

[MathBlade]

you don't plan on using petrification anymore, right? until there's 1 scum left

Plans are one thing. Reality is another matter. I am 99% sure I'll end up triggering precog before end of day today and sharing it. I don't want to cause undo chaos by triggering it now and then someone going "no no OMG " and then spamming the thread planning for tomorrow like yesterday.

Also I noticed you've dodged my bombing question and both Drixx and you have dodged my what's the plan question? I'm working through this while getting ready for bed and I'm still not caught up yet and some help would be appreciated.

[MathBlade]

Also, as long as we don’t no lynch, Sakura is immune from all killing abilities.

Not tomorrow, Drixx concern is that if i give bomb to scum, they can just take me out at the start of the next day phase instead of during the night.
Also im still not sure on the use of the bomb, but if i DO use it, the player that has the superpower will be hidden until tomorrow, so Drixx should still protect Nero, and if scum wants to shoot into the lynchpool to try to hit him then they are helping us thin the lynchpool anyway.

If they take you out with a triggered activation, you cannot confirm to whom you offered powers, which could leave a nifty mess in the morning ... especially since you were at one point talking about non-specific pairing. Sure you can say ahead of time but ... that's just the tip of the iceberg on shenanigans. That's what I felt like I could say because there's an obvious way to prevent it being a huge deal and if scum want to trade out 1-for-1 then that's fine.

There's a whole host of other things.

You taking bomb and setting it off at night while you cannot die seems like a clever usage. I'm wondering why it took quite this long for anyone to get there but whatever. That also means I can doc someone who also takes it and sets it off at night. That person basically becomes the scum kill choice though I would think.

Still ... if we can pull it of that takes the downside out of the suicide bomb. You can't die and I can keep someone else from dying.

So wait what's the idea? Sorry I'm catching up. I'm having to put in some insane hours at work for a deadline. I'd like a chance to know what's going on and to make sure we're not doing something silly.

He wants to turn self-detonate into vig by Docing the person using it, basically.

What happens if scum have PN (again I think this is a small to nil chance)
and what happens if Drixx is scum (again I think this is a small chance)
With the leader if they use it that day/night then they are immune so the risk is only if that overrides it.

And what happens if scum power echo the doc'd suicide bomber?
Mainly the same concerns brought up by the bomb plan.
I'm not seeing how this is any more or less risky than before?

[MathBlade]

Or worse yet, what happens if scum kill Drixx?
IMHO this is a chess game with scum and we have to outmaneuver them. The pieces are out there.
However it's more we need to outline what the exact risks are for each plan we come up with
Then see which risks are unique to which plans and which risks overlap.

For example for the traditional bomb plan (which I know is a no go hence using it as an example)
What if scum have power echo
What if scum have PN

For the UFO day vig
What if scum have power echo
What if scum have PN

A lot of these concerns are indeed overlapping.
We know for a fact scum have powers with Titus having been leader.
It seems like we're talking about making new plans and then having similar or the exact same risks.
However those risks have different consequences.

What we need to do is figure out what balls are in the air so to speak for potential plans, make a post outlining the risks and consequences
And then which risks are acceptable risks

To me for example, if a majority/all of the scum are in Asuaka (sorry if I misspelled that), Sakura, Nancy, and Drixx, that to me is an acceptable risk to me as that scum team would have earned it.
We are going to have to take risks. That's the nature of the setup and to be frank Superheroes take risks.

I'm a okay/decent poker player so mainly this is what I feel is going on with an analogy.
You get dealt a hand. Then as more cards get turned up more and more of the game gets exposed.
However, as the game goes you have to put more and more money into the pot.
So each day another card is turned over. We have to either call, raise, or fold.

By clearly stating what it is and the risks we are talking on we can make sure A) everyone knows what is going on and B) the risks we are taking.

[MathBlade]

pedit lol UFO plan is a dayvig RIP. Then Power Echo risk is negated if it's day.

So stuff like that. If someone could keep up with that that would be amazing. Then we're not having a jack shit ton of people going "what is going on" and checking out.

[MathBlade]

Damn i was hoping my question would've been in the FAQ already.
Regardless apparently self detonation kills both the player and the target, it does not count as a suicide, i think.
A bombing player may well be able to be doctored from dying from it, and it's also possible the presiding leader (me) can vig someone with it.

@Sakura good to know. That alleviates my concerns from a quick overview. I will brainstorm on it more tonight.

Is there something else I need to be aware of Sakura? Can someone quickly outline the plan(s) we're doing/talking about and what risks there are?

[MathBlade]

Ok yes, i confirmed it.
If i use self detonation while being protected as leader it's basically a vig.
Same if someone doctors a bomber (But doctor only prevents 1 kill so if scum shoots them they'd still die)

So the only risk to the second is if scum negate Drixx (again I think low risk) or if scum kill the bomber (again I think low risk).

[MathBlade]

Hmm although Power Echo is still kind of a risk.

I'm thinking we need to actually have a written out list of plans. I'm not sure which plans you're talking about.

Something like

Please make this better I did it really quick

Plan #1 -- Leader DayVig

Risk 1: Power negate on the leader target before they become leader thus the bomb doesn't go off?
-- Not really a risk, just like a dud vig.

Plan #2 -- Other Player DayVig

Risk 1: Risk here
Risk 2: Risk here

Plan #2 -- Other Player NightVig

Risk 1: Risk here
Risk 2: Risk here


Be back in a bit.

[MathBlade]

Oh yeah i forgot about dayvig, that addresses my concerns.

I literally put risk here?

So what exactly is the plan?

[MathBlade]

Actually just realised its prolly in our best interest to keep the day count as low as possible. More days and more powers = more unknown "oooOoOOOOoo but what if teh scumz [blank]?!??"

Uhm. That’s not accurate.

There are always what if’s? What matters is mitigating it.

It’s why town does what is most likely and scum worry about what ifs.

Pedit

Sounds good.

I have a hard deadline at work I have to hit but if someone could use and update that table I roughly made that would be amazing. This way more people can be included in the conversation. I gotta go to bed.

[MathBlade]

Im basically scared that SOMETHING will go wrong. And it will cause us to lose.

That’s why documenting and talking out the risks helps. We are getting to the point based on power selection stuff gets risky. But we then decide if we call raise or fold on those powers and force scum to make their move accordingly. That’s why everyone talks out the plan and triple checks like I did earlier.

We can’t remove the risk but we can plan around it best we can

[MathBlade]

mathblade is town

Okay. From said conclusion where do you go from there? Talk with me about how you see the gamestate with me being town. I'm leaning towards Creature and Kokichi being scum together rather than apart. What makes you say you might be wrong on Creature and going with Kokichi? The meta link Sakura gave me was really convincing when I read it overnight and if it's wrong then I need a new foundation for my read on him.

I also thought we weren't voting til the plan is settled?

[MathBlade]

I am really having trouble following your trains of thought the more I read them. I was thinking about it on the drive in. Can you talk with me about how you reached the conclusions you did?

[MathBlade]

Guys please don’t hammer until I can precog and everyone knows who is doing what and what the risks are.

[MathBlade]

I also want a chance to get a reads list out

[MathBlade]

Dumb question: If we are doing the suicide vig plan why are we talking new leaders at all?
Why not have it shuffle between Sakura and FA’s replacement?

[MathBlade]

That just seems like a recipe for bad. For one thing Tor has been pinging me all game and Nero is not universally townread. Could we do like Sando?

Will be on late tonight

[MathBlade]

Dumb question: If we are doing the suicide vig plan why are we talking new leaders at all?
Why not have it shuffle between Sakura and FA’s replacement?

why are you prefacing by saying the question is dumb?

sakura can't be leader twice in a row

Pretty sure he's suggesting "weaving" it between the two, so Sakura bombs tonight while leader-safe, we get new-FA protection and leader tonight and then new-FA bombs tomorrow night with leader-safe.

Ends up with one bomb per day between two players.

@Toranaga because I haven’t been able to read the thread while work is a speed demon.

It’s more I don’t like introducing more people into the mix unless necessary: The Sakura/FA + 1 from block has been working out.

I don’t know if I trust a new leader with a majority of mislynch bait is smart?

[MathBlade]

see if this works, guys:

today: we vote ausuka for leader with one of me or nero cain as the backup

sakura submits me, nero, nancy, ausuka +1 for powers

tonight: ausuka uses phasing on a SR and takes suicide bombing

sakura takes and uses suicide bombing on a SR

drixx docs nero

nero takes suicide bombing

I take suicide bombing

nancy takes power echo and targets drixx to have his doc also protect me

tomorrow: me and nero use suicide bombing on SR targets

ausuka has suicide bombing as well and can also use on a SR target if she is leader

this gives us 4 kills with none of the townread players having to die for it

thoughts?

I see a couple of troubling things mainly it doesn’t account for scumfuckery like power negate. (Admittedly a low chance) we don’t know until someone suicides who isn’t Sakura. Let me brainstorm and go through things tonight for any potential way this could go sideways.

[MathBlade]

I see a couple of troubling things mainly it doesn’t account for scumfuckery like power negate.

Negate has the same effect in the echo'd doc as non-echo'd doc. We can safely ignore the option in terms of leader protection given it's the same result no matter whether we echo it or not.

It should, however, give pause to the idea of using bomb without leader protection, as I think Tora might be suggesting?

It’s mainly if Drixx gets negated then neither protection goes through if I understand it correct. Echo wouldn’t fire as there would be no power to hit.

Also if Drixx is scum (again low chance) Nancy could end up copying mod knows what factional ability into those two.

I think that being said the risk is small but I need time to try to break it and think in depth when not under time crunch.

[MathBlade]

drixx doc's nero
sakura echoes drixx onto me
me and nero take suicide bombing

we might wanna change leader votes as well

ausuka can protect herself tonight yes?

Considering all of the tension between Drixx/Nero, I’d feel a lot better if Drixx doc’s you and Sakura echos Drixx.

Why? Because it’s way more likely Drixx protects you over Nero and Sakura protects Nero?

Do you disagree?

And yes, I believe FA claimed to have picked Phasing.

You seem perfectly fine insulting me but then you post shit like this which makes it clear you have no idea who I am. There doesn't exist a world in which I don't doc someone because I am personally frustrated with them. Period. Full stop.

I can validate this. Drixx does what he says and means it if town. If scum he does it 95% of the time.

The odds of Drixx not doing it if he has the powers is astronomically low.

[MathBlade]

It’s mainly if Drixx gets negated then neither protection goes through if I understand it correct. Echo wouldn’t fire as there would be no power to hit.

Also if Drixx is scum (again low chance) Nancy could end up copying mod knows what factional ability into those two.

Yeah exactly, but we're apparently suggesting two people without BP? So Drixx protecting one and getting negated = no protection, and Drixx protecting both with echo+doc and getting negated = no protection. Same result is my point.

You do make a good point about Drixx-scum doubling up a power on them. It's only powers though yeah? Petrification seems like the only dangerous one to get doubled up, maybe freezing but meh.

You do realize that if scum has power negate they can still pierce through the protection regardless? Power negate does prevent powers from being used on your target too you know.
The only ppl that have so far claimed to have a protection AND SS are me and ausuka (as per FA) as far as im aware.

And me. I also have SS bp.

Reposting this, in case scum thinks I’m some fucking idiot!

in this case:

elect ausuka with me/nero as backup

tonight: you actually take sui bombing and use SS bp

ausuka uses phasing and takes sui bombing

sakura takes and uses sui bombing

drixx doc's nero

nero takes power echoing and uses it on sakura, targeting a scumread with it

I take sui bombing and use power mimickry on drixx

6th player takes power echoing and uses it on drixx, targeting me

we get two kills tonight, all of them protected

we'll have three kills tomorrow, all of them protected

thoughts?

I think it needs a slight tweak:

The 6th person whoever it is, heals Drixx not you.
Drixx's healing is vital for the safety of everyone. And if we don't heal him Drixx if town has a huge target on his back and I would want him some protection.
The entire plan could fall apart if scum have PN and then just kill Drixx and laugh as the townblock mass suicides.

[MathBlade]

Mainly I'd rather have the protection on Drixx so we can repeat this on future nights. Right now without protection, I don't see a reason scum don't kill Drixx here.

I'd rather have the protection on Drixx so scum have to use negate to kill him and one less bomb. Especially since we're actually ending up with more kills and that was the original concern.

I'd rather sacrifice the additional kill and make sure our one doc is safe. But if the group overrules me and I'm the sixth I will protect you.

[MathBlade]

I agree with 90% of the plan, just not that Drixx is unprotected because then if Drixx is killed we only get one shot at this and don't have a fail safe if things go sideways. I'd rather give up one kill from the plan to make sure we have Drixx around tomorrow.

Pedit: If I'm supposed to power echo I can't precog yet. That needs to be straightened out.

Also we need to have two pools for Sakura and Nero to shoot at can even be half the player list each. Just wanna ensure no overlap so no waste there either.

[MathBlade]

I have to go to D&D but these are the outstanding questions
1) Do we risk Drixx dying at night in order to gain an extra kill? Toranaga says yes, Nero says yes, I say no.
2) Am I going to be the 6th person in that plan? Therefore I have to not use precog today.
3) Preventing Sakura/Nero overlap. How do we and are we fine if overlap happens?

I have D&D tonight but I think these are the main concerns.

I'm okay with Sando being the sixth and me doing precog. But it's one or the other.

[MathBlade]

Oh and also Nero dying doesn't confirm/deny whether Drixx was negated.

If Nero suicides and scum submit a kill on Nero Nero still dies.

Pedit gotta go

[MathBlade]

math, can you use precog already so we lynch kokichi and move on?

it's actually quite unlikely that kokichi is town. his ISO isn't just contentless, it's flat out wolfy.

You literally

just

came up with this plan.
You asked for feedback.
I want us to actually do that.
I want to make sure everyone is on board with the plan.

[MathBlade]

Sorry, i've been busy all day, and now im tired, can someone sumarize the plan u guys are sugesting and if it's different from mine why isnt mine good? if it's already summarized then just quote it and i'll read it when i wake up.

elect ausuka with me/nero as backup

tonight: nancy takes sui bombing and uses SS bp

ausuka uses phasing and takes sui bombing

sakura takes and uses sui bombing

drixx doc's nero

nero takes power echoing and uses it on sakura, targeting a scumread with it

I take sui bombing and use power mimickry on drixx

6th player takes power echoing and uses it on drixx, targeting me

Math takes power echo and uses it on Drixx.

tomorrow: ausuka kills while protected by leadership. I kill if I get a doc result on mimickry. nancy kills while protected by her BP

Ausuka decide whether or not to blow up based upon the number of deaths and the gamestate and we count out powers at this point

so we get 5 kills total.

Mainly I think the kills tomorrow have to be decided tomorrow but we have the option. If the vigs go off and all hit town we could end up giving the game to scum if we aren’t careful. I need to do the math on if we major derp.

@Nero yeah I can not use Precog and take echo. I think that is the safest thing.

Especially if the numbers work in our favor and we can do this another day I want Drixx surviving. I think that is way more important than precog especially since we know what we are gonna do tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

So I think we do that, lynch Kokichi since imho he doesn’t give a fuck, Sakura kills Creature overnight and then Nero vigs someone else with power echo from Sakura.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Kokichi

[MathBlade]

HOWEVER, I would advise against using SS with BP and then bombing during the day, SS would make ur bomb strongman no?

Don’t think that’s how it works.

—— Cycle starts ——-
Day happens no power trigger
Night happens SS BP the BP goes off and you are protected. The SS was to whether the action can be blocked or modified which the BP wasn’t so SS fades.
—— New Cycle Player is BP ——
Player suicide bomb vigs and lives because BP But SS was not applied to that power so if they target someone BP no one dies

However I think asking the mod would be best to verify my thinking

[MathBlade]

it doesn't matter much if we go creature, nosferatu or kokichi to me. I just think kokichi is very obviously mafia.

Kinda in the same boat but I want Kokichi more as a Creature wagon started after the Creature vote but iirc a Kokichi one didn’t. So I would rather
Lynch Kokichi
Sakura kill Creature
Nero kill Nosferatu using power echo

If for some reason either of those two survive which imho is doubtful then we lynch them the next day.

[MathBlade]

protecting drixx is not more important than precog, math. come on...

Yes he damn well is.

If this thing goes sideways Drixx is the ONLY way we can repeat it again.

Drixx is that important.

For a moment assume Kokichi Creature and Nos are all town.

We are at 12 town alive 3 scum alive right now.
Assume night kill goes through

Next day we are at 8 town alive.
If three scum are alive we will have mathematically lost in a myriad of ways unless Drixx starts saving kills.

[MathBlade]

Also mod read my PM asking if you can power echo someone towards themselves but never answered it

Power Echo was revealed the day before
Suicide bomber was revealed today

While it is something you’d never do ask this

If Player A has power echo
Player B has suicide bomber
All other players have no powers
Player B suicides onto player C
I echo player B onto myself

What is the end result?
Granted this is hella stupid and I don’t encourage anyone to actually do this
It gets around the power was revealed yesterday rule

[MathBlade]

I just think kokichi is very obviously mafia.

Lynch this tomorrow btw. Hes seen my scum game before

Talk with me about your Toranaga read here. He has been pinging me all game.

Something is setting off alarm bells that this is wrong.

[MathBlade]

I was actually thinking about the possibility of Echoing Drixx > Drixx.

I am thinking that we lynch Kokichi Drixx heals Nero as he is supposed to.
Nancy takes Power Echo heals Drixx
You take suicide bomber
Nero takes suicide bomber

And we don’t do the rest of it.

I would rather one safe vig that can’t be impeded with when Tor is back to giving me the creeps. He was against the suicide plan and now he is pushing it when we don’t know what factionals scum have. And it gives a ton of new people power echo.

I would rather do this and take precog

I have the massive fuck hell no going off.

Gotta go car pool person I am driving is here.

[MathBlade]

I was actually thinking about the possibility of Echoing Drixx > Drixx.

I am thinking that we lynch Kokichi Drixx heals Nero as he is supposed to.
Nancy takes Power Echo heals Drixx
You take suicide bomber
Nero takes suicide bomber

And we don’t do the rest of it.

I would rather one safe vig that can’t be impeded with when Tor is back to giving me the creeps. He was against the suicide plan and now he is pushing it when we don’t know what factionals scum have. And it gives a ton of new people power echo.

I would rather do this and take precog

I have the massive fuck hell no going off.

Gotta go car pool person I am driving is here.

Use precog *

I don’t need to take it lol

Keep me off powers

[MathBlade]

WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING VIG ABILITIES

Vig = Suicide Bomber + heal/immunity

@Toranaga yes it is!
Because we don’t fucking know what factionals scum have.

I could easily see scum getting some kind of mass or global roleblock or denial of power activation or 1 shot BP or mod knows what.

I can’t ask the question I gave. The power was revealed to me yesterday.

I was absolutely stupid to think the bombing plan would work in the first place I admit that.
But mainly I don’t trust Tor right now.

The fact there is no resistance to it and was to the bombing plan including other players besides Tor.
Like something feels wrong and I can’t put my finger on it.
And since I can’t I am opposed.

[MathBlade]

Then you tell me what the scum abilities are then?
They could have a roleblock that could kill Drixx and then we hunt for a negate that doesn’t exist.
They could have a strongman roleblock where Nancy gets slaughtered if she activates.

The fact we have seen 0 evidence of factional abilities and then you shading me for considering them is disingenuous at best.

My only flaws with the plan I had presented was if all three were scum then we still push it through or if three scum have echo.

However that is still too big a risk.

Now you’re saying expand the goddamn pool of people who have it and then are not concerned about scum echos either. Like you are having it both goddamn ways and if you are scum it’s with two lurkers and you didn’t want the plan because it pins you.

I do not condone the plan of someone who is pinging me this hard.

[MathBlade]

ok then, but is self-detonation one-shot? If not then we have a VERY dangerous combo

we don't

nothing can kill a leader and two of the SUI bombs are leader related

the other 3 can be messed by wolves but we'll have ways to tell if our night actions got messed with or not

The ones that are leader related can go off as that is mod immunity.

I am not for any of the others.

[MathBlade]

I can see scum very easily negating or roleblocking Drixx here. You being scum. Someone fucking with Nancy by putting in a kill action her way. There are way too many ways I can see that scum fuck with this.

[MathBlade]

If anything, I'm used to Math and Me disagreeing on reads. At least that clears up my paranoia.

Hmmm how about this?

We stake it on how good Toranaga’s read of Kokichi is.

If Kokichi is scum then Toranaga’s plan can go through and Kokichi was trying to manipulate me into distrust. But if Kokichi is town we do my safer version and look hard at Toranaga because that is Kokichi’s last wish which I will type up my plan in full tonight.

Win win.

[MathBlade]

Because if we have a scum death then a lot of the risks to Toranaga’s plan become mitigated as it would be 2v12 going into night.

[MathBlade]

funny when you wanted to literally invite scum to take abilities there was nothing scum could do to fuck with that plan

now there is

you lost all your credibility this game

Yes there wasn’t with mine.

Because if scum used a global roleblock then the town live.

If they had a narrower one then that would have to be investigated.

With your plan we would have no clue whether it is a scum power or a factional ability.

Like I want Tor to die. Like this is complete bullshit.

We need to stick to what is safe I do not trust Tor

[MathBlade]

and you're the reason FA isn't playing anymore

no let's kill each other math. if you suspect me so hard, die with me.

I do suspect you but you’re the one who said I am so important
I scumread you
Guess I am not so important now?

I suspect you and I am paranoid of you
I am not stupid enough to throw.
You fucking townread me. You suicide bombing on me would be throwing

You just want me to shut the fuck up and you are lucky I have to work the rest of the day.

Let’s do what is safe

[MathBlade]

Can we please not...

...All I did was argue for what I believe.
Like :/

So I guess from here we lynch Kokichi use it as a Toranaga barometer
If Kokichi is scum we do his
If not we do mine

[MathBlade]

btw math

learn what a fucking figure of speech is before you report people

especially someone who is dear for this community but is walking on thin ice and just got unbanned

Aspie who has received death threats IRL
Like seriously. That post broke code of conduct and left me balling.

If she was on thin ice she shouldn’t threaten to kill me IRL. Like I don’t want to see her permanently banned but at the same time I don’t not report posts that leave me crying.

[MathBlade]

So I am gonna play mafia now after work

I still think that we use Kokichi as a barometer

[MathBlade]

only the person drixx is targeting can use power absortion to get doc themselves of course

I don't want too many people relying on drixx cause he can be PN'ed and then nobody gets anything. as it is there's already two echoes on drixx on top of power absortion. I actually think this is suboptimal and I'm considering other ways to have people protected.

Which is what I said
It all relies on Drixx

[MathBlade]

Are we all in agreement I am precogging?

Is that at least settled?

[MathBlade]

@math: you know what I think. you should use precog.

@nancy: siren's call would save muffin and kill you instead. it's kinda useless ability rn.

I am asking everyone else.

I understand you don’t like me I am just nervous about this plan and whether it will work.

I know what you think. I just want to make sure this is right. That’s all. Please I want to hear it from someone else so we can work together and then you vig scum. I get you dislike me but please let me make sure everyone is on the same page. And if you really are going to explode on me let me do a last read.

[MathBlade]

Look I am sorry I frustrated you to the point of wanting to replace out

I am juggling work and this due to the sheer speed

We all want the same thing.

Please just let’s do your plan I still feel it’s wrong but I am tired of fighting for what I think and pissing people off

I gotta remember this is a game and y’all are gonna do what you think is right I said my peace

[MathBlade]

I have sent in my precog request will see what is up tomorrow

[MathBlade]

I have sent in my precog request will see what is up tomorrow

Tomorrow? Why do we have to wait until then?

We need to know what we’re dealing with, otherwise we’re just basically spinning our wheels.

It was a colloquialism
Meaning what is up with tomorrow’s powers

[MathBlade]

Look I am sorry I frustrated you to the point of wanting to replace out

I am juggling work and this due to the sheer speed

We all want the same thing.

Please just let’s do your plan I still feel it’s wrong but I am tired of fighting for what I think and pissing people off

I gotta remember this is a game and y’all are gonna do what you think is right I said my peace

No Math, the old plan was not good but ther new one could work. Have you read up on that one yet? I feel a lot better about that one.

Honestly no and I kinda don’t care. I feel if I find a flaw I am just gonna piss people off. I have a bad feeling about this

[MathBlade]

In any case, im gonna go back to playing MHW, @Math: If you dont have anything to hide, use precog today.

I already submitted it.

I am not sure where this paranoia is coming from. I am at work until late tonight but hopefully by then the mod gets back to me with the precog stuff. I don’t have time to read all of this and respond properly.

[MathBlade]

Redirector
EH
1-shot during each day vote swapper PM mod
HT
BP
Shapeshifting — Make your powers look like someone else. Doesn’t count toward power usage.

^^ The precog list

[MathBlade]

and yes mathblade bussed titus in a very extreme fashion in mod is mafia

it was the kind of thing I always assume that player is basically spewed town if his read is right

turns out it was a bus

Yes. And I also have good scum games where I didn’t bus Titus.

Literally anyone can find any scum game and find something relevant and try to go “aha”.

This is literally the second time you are doing that. I am flattered you find my scum game good but if I get mislynched I want it to be for the right reasons rather than “OMG Math has a good scum game”

[MathBlade]

Y E S

scum needs to BUS THE FUCK OUT of their team mates to win this ridiculously townsided setup

well great now that i think about it

VOTE: mathblade

anyone who wants to should read mod is mafia
math did the same thing in that game to titus [titus was previously in a hydra in that slot]

math also used a mechanical advantage in that game [posting votecounts] in order to become an asset to town

there's also no building a convincing case on math. you either see it or you don't. you either believe his hardpushing for giving 3 POE'd down players abilities so they can sui bomb is town!math, or you see the obvious agenda behind it. you either believe he believes GLOBAL ROLEBLOCKING is an ability scum has and an argument against my first multiple vigs plan, or you don't and he is scum to you.

the amount of things mathblade said and pushed for that are unreasonable stances and look agenda driven is in most of math's posting. if he is wolf or town!math doing these things is up to town to determine. I don't think I can possibly read math with any accuracy, but I can absolutely see math being a wolf here and I'll trust sakura's instincts about it, the same way I'm trusting you and her on your feelings about kokichi.

Again this is false.

I have multiple games in which damn good cases were brought against me and I was lynched for it. I also have a game on here I replaced into and failed so spectacularly hard it was hilarious. I am town but if you can’t build a case then we should practice and use this time to help people be better Mafia players. I won’t deny my scum game is good but that is zero reason to scumread me here.

In my scum games yes I am hella good at obvTowning. However I guarantee you scum me in this game would never take petrify or SS or at least lie and say I picked something else. Speaking of which there is a whole host of other reasons I already wrote out that mean if I am scum I would have a death wish. Like I get it. I deserve the paranoia. That’s why you check me. It’s a simple thing to do.

You don’t waste time on a paranoia hunt. You talk with me make me communicate with you. That is how you do it and read me. So let’s fucking do it.

[MathBlade]

math was leader and has like 3 different powers

if we're all thinking he might be scum let's end him today

That is true, but if we force him to use precog he cant use any powers during the night.

we just can't lose momentum imo

everyone that could lynch math is dead

there's now you and me

when you die I'm done with this. I'm not even trying.

You also wanted momentum on Kokichi lynch as well, didn’t you? Why the rush? What exactly is the problem with actually trying to build a convincing case on him - one way or another?

when I say momentum, is based off the current playerlist. I'm talking about doing it today. when either me or sakura is dead, no one is touching mathblade. believe me if math is scum and I die, he wins.

Once again, this is wrong.

I am town but if I was scum numerous people are here who are still alive and know me and will sort me. Nearly everyone here knows how I play in some scum games and in town games. If y’all are paranoid have everyone bring what they know and we talk and talk about this game.

This is an extended gambler’s fallacy