Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[skitter30]

VOTE: ruru

@ofrhz

: regular vla on fridays and saturdays!!!

Noted! -ofrhz

==

Lol at creature getting ic

==

ok idk any of u but i did some theorizing pregame
mafia likely took two modifiers pregame, joat and daytalk meaning we have at most 4 townprs.

No offense but imo theorizing like this is kinda pointless; its basically impossible to know what scum has picked at this stage of the game; i think its a bit premature to guess the number of prs we have or what scum picked

I do agree that they prob didnt take three modifiers

[skitter30]

it gave me sth to do for a bit to kill time
from my math, joat counters three townprs so why wouldnt scum take joat? (bg, rber, tracker)
daytalk is also universally good hence why not take it?

aside, are you an alt? (feel free to ignore this if you like!)

scum don't know what powers town are going to get and joat is useless against many of them; 1s ninja is useless if tracker isn't in the game, even then it's only worth one shot. 1s strongman is good against bg; i don't know how strongman and rb interact but again it's only one shot while town is given full tracker/bg/rb

(well i suppose to be fair it's good against goon cop)

on balnace i don't think it's worth it for scum to take prs when they don't know which prs town will get or how those prs stack up against scum's prs

like i think any 4 of {tracker/bg/ic/rb/vig/goon cop} is kinda weak against scum joat from a scum perspective, as is 5 of the town prs against joat + daytalk

the only scum modification that i think is kinda worth giving town more prs as scum is daytalk and that's like the only one i'd take i think as scum

==

THIS IS STUPID

kinda townie reaction imo

@vex: town!creature is very, very, very easy to identify most of the time

==

VOTE: Creature

I've seen an accidental lolhammer on an IC that has yet to be revealed, can we make history and accidentally lynch an outed IC?

i know that you probably meant this in jest and that it's rvs but i think this is slightly more likely to come from scum tbh

[skitter30]

(i think i just provoked a speech from a50 where he explains to me why i'm looking at the setup wrong)

[skitter30]

if i do say im an alt, what does that mean for u?

whether or not i ought to view you as a new player or not

==

out of 6 prs, joat counters 3 of them: tracker because ninja, bg and rber because strongman, (strongman ignores bg and rber)

ye but joat is only two shot and tracker/bg/rb can still affect that scum member after those shots are up, or if they didn't use the shots on the correct night

on balance i don't think it's worth it to give town more prs

also i do agree that daytalk is something scum will 100% take however i feel that joat may be a very close second pick

scum didn't take daytalk in the last two iterations of this setup (i don't know what happened before that)

==

i know that you probably meant this in jest and that it's rvs but i think this is slightly more likely to come from scum tbh

yet you don't opt to end rvs by voting me?

i mean, i think we're out of rvs at this point

why should i have voted you there?

[skitter30]

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

yeah i agree overall

[skitter30]

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

yeah i agree overall

Even considering that he’s an alt?

i don't know who he's an alt of, but i think his mindset has been pro-town for this stage of the game

i mean, i think we're out of rvs at this point

why should i have voted you there?

Because from your point of view I'm more likely to be scum than ruru at the moment

i think ruru is probably one of the easier people to sort in this playerlist and i think that applying pressure to her will help with that endeavor

[skitter30]

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

yeah i agree overall

Even considering that he’s an alt?

him being an alt doesn't change that his thought process is pretty townie

[skitter30]

Also how about we stop talking about how many prs we think scum can claim

why not? they already know how many prs town has; this convo doesn't change that

i think overall there's *better* things to talk about than setup spec, but i don't think it's detrimental to anything at this stage either, and i think the setup spec is helping bring the game out of rvs anyways

[skitter30]

it depends on how many modifiers scum chose but i think fake-claiming in this setup as scum is kinda silly s there's a fairly decent chance they'll claim a pr that actually exists (although it's safer for scum to fake-claim in a setup where an ic has been revealed i think given that they know what one of the prs are already)

(also i suppose i ought to mention that the one and only time i was wrong in mylo was in stack-the-deck two games ago where i lynched for someone faking a goon-cop claim because i thought that was much, much, much more likely to come from scum; turns out they were lying but they were a townie who decided it was a good idea to fake-claim in mylo in an open setup for reasons unknown to me)

idk overall i don't think it really informs scum that much; i don't think it's anti-town but it think post rvs there are better things to talk about because speculating doesn't lead to concrete conclusions either way without scumflips and/or multiple pr flips

[skitter30]

@vex:

the qualifier was 'at this stage of the game' - it's helping us transition out of rvs so i'm fine with it for now; i wouldn't want to revert back to this discussion in several irl days after we've had legit wagons or something

for now it's fine since it's helping us get to the interesting things

==

also i'm getting early scumpings from ruru

==

@a50 why wagon sky?

[skitter30]

Guys you know how hypo innos are a thing?

Why don't we do hypo scum teams? If I'm the traitor then my partners are ruru and A50 pls dont crosskill me guys

this is actually kinda :/

i don't know why town says this

@a50 why wagon sky?

Because it's fun.
And also bc it's good for the game.
Well, it's as good as any other wagon really, but my vote is already there and so is ruru's, so if you want to be our third I'd be obliged. (It's still be L-4 you know, and N_M isn't even in this game if it makes you feel any better)

ok

VOTE: sky

==

i'm getting bored by the pr discussion

==

Vex feels townish so far even though it looks like some sort of newbtown enthusiasm. Eh. He's contributing much which is enough for the day.

i dont know if it matters or if it's relevant or anything but i'm not gettng a newb vibe from him

==

im assuming that creature just gets obvtowned early on?

yeah if creature doesn't fall into lurkerdom, he's town so kind of a waste of IC but thems the breaks

i like ruru's entrance

a50's not so much

VOTE: a50

idk i'm kinda tending town on ap for now

don't particularly like ruru thus far; everything she's saying is kinda inane and about the pr stuff but isn't actually cotributing anything useful or game-moving imo and that's not really what i expect from town!ruru;

==

Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,

my case on Sky is she is the Traitor

i don't know if i have experience with joking about lynching the ic as always coming from scum but i also can't remember town ever doing that either and then actually voting the ic and keeping the vote on them for the lolz? like i guess i can kinda see it as the very first rvs post but i don't like the continuation in 82

both of those posts are rubbing me the wrong way

i don't know if it's particularly a traitor-read on my end; more of a generic scumread

another thing that's bothering me about this is that i don't know if scum is so ... conspicuous about voting the ic and naming themselves traitor?

[skitter30]

a50 have i ever been tvt with you?

[skitter30]

yeah idk either, it's never occured to me to say something like that as either alignment; i talked about that a bit more later on

actually the more i think about it the more i get the traitor read from a50 - it could be signalling to groupscum from a traitor by being conspicuously scummy

[skitter30]

i guess i just don't know if scum tries to be that conspicuous on purpose?

i don't really know; it's not sitting well with me as something either town or scum say

[skitter30]

what do u expect from town!ruru?

i don't know exactly; it's still gut and i need more from her but i'll try to explain

i expect town!ruru to be more opionated/stubborn almost? like if she thinks you're wrong about the pr stuff i kinda expect a long novel about why exactly you're wrong. like she wasn't as forceful about it as i'd expect her to be if that makes sense

i said a couple of times that i wanted to pressure her and i kinda expect town!her to engage with that in some way, or to like respond to me? she knows i can locktown her pretty easily as town so avoiding that feels kinda wrong?

i think scum!her doesn't really want to engage me i think (given newbie 1859 where i caugth her and she just didn't want to have arguments with me; read the scum pt ; + open 721 iirc where i was able to locktown her on like three posts in rvs)

and in 721 we mindmelded pretty hard as town so i think town!her engages me and i think scum!her probably doesn't want to

==

But that's NOT my only point. I have 2 other points against Sky now: Her meta and her Traitor claim. I;ve already explained the later. As for her meta, I think skitter (for one) would agree this isn't the way way Sky enters her games as a Townie. She tends to be pushing the game forward from the word go. It'd make my like much easier if you just went to her profile and clicked her topics and took a look on how Town Sky usually enters the game. This is some weird entrance by her to say the least. She's likely the Traitor and she simply didn't know how to play it.

i don't have solid sky meta that i can talk about right now

[skitter30]

a50 have i ever been tvt with you?

I don't remember.. have we? I'll probably need to check on that too when my connection works properly.

yeah i remember in brass's pick your poison

[skitter30]

It's like pretty hard for me to take your vote on me seriously when you already called it a "pressure vote" and like I pretty much expect you to read me correctly before eod anyway regardless of your alignment? And I'd rather just be shitposting lol

idk i kinda expected you to acknowledge in some way the fact i wanted to sort you early; like make mention of it or something; wasn't expecting you to necessarily take a pressure vote seriously but i did think you would respond in some way

but ye i'm pretty sure i'll figure it out either way at some point; it's still early on

not really sure what to make of shitposting!you

are you changing your writing style?

==

re: ap, i'm kinda skeeved bc it feels like he's trying SUPER hard to come off as endearing

i'm pretty good at catching scum!ap and he doesn't feel wrong right now

conviction over weird lines of thinking this early i haven't really seen him do as scum, but i have seen him do that as town tho

[skitter30]

aside i kinda think enigma might be town

==

frankjaeger's entrance is kinda meh

==

Weird question

I don't think I've ever been a player who rushes out of rvs as town

this might be a weird thing to say but i kinda think that shitposting is kinda more likely to come from scum!you? you're pretty competitive as either alignment and i feel like town!you would have gotten into the game already and not have to be like drawn out of rvs and that you'd have more of a presence but i can kinda see scum!you affecting a shitposting/meme-y style so that if people question you why you're acting different you can say that you're just shitposting

idk i'm aware that's kinda tin-foil-y i guess but that's what i was thinking when you made your effort!post + that post's writing felt slightly forced imo

If skitter is still scumreading me at eod, correct play is to lynch me and then lynch her, and scum.her is probably aware of that and therefore probably won't try to mislynch me

eli5 why this is correct play? (ie specifically why you get lynched before me and why everyone ought to lynch you because i'm scumreading you)

Some of my posts yesterday were scumpinging me after I wrote them, so I'm not terribly surprised that she's scumreading me

uhhhhh ....

is self-amished a thing?

like someone saying their own posts are scumpinging them is kinda strange?

==

huh? I don't get whether you're saying they would or wouldn't go for joat

i'm saying i don't think they would go for joat because i think the powers town get in exchange are stronger than joat

==

i have nothing to say about gamma's entrance; it just kinda is

[skitter30]

If skitter is still scumreading me at eod, correct play is to lynch me and then lynch her, and scum.her is probably aware of that and therefore probably won't try to mislynch me

I mean that is a bit reachy regarding lynching skitter if she scumreads you (correctly) and you end up being lynched. Why are you suggesting the correct play is to lynch her after you are lynched (regardless of flip) - yes scum can bus, but (town) skitter can and should also be able to scumread you (correctly or incorrectly) without dooming her to being PLd after you are lynched?

@ruru can you respond to this please?

==

You should probably read more of my early d1 meta if this is a serious concern

ok maybe i'll do a more thorough metadive at some point

from the games i have played with you this seems kinda atypical

Historically you read me accurately on d1, so it would be similar to a guilty

idk i wouldn't really call something like this a guilty; more like a fairly-strong meta-based read

==

Me being IC or the font?

Looks like my browsers weren’t rendering the font properly so it looked okay to me. Let me know if it is still hard to read, since I can’t tell the difference.

the curly font is a little bit hard for me to read actually

==

Because it factors into me townreading skitter

wait now i'm confused; i thought it was a factor in how i read you; how does it factor into how you read me?

==

After all, it takes someone overly eccentric (like myself) to even try to decipher that post the way I did.

i don't get it - why is that townie of her?

==

P.s And meta reads are usually garbage

eh, disagree

==

VOTE: FrankJaeger

idk he feels kinda meh but i don't think he feels *scummy* meh

just kinda generally underwhelming but i don't know if that's inherently scummy

[skitter30]

You think Scum!her (or even Scum!ME) would go that far (speaking in riddles) just to say "I'm Town"?? Come on!

this doesn't mean anything to me tbh; i don't think it's ai at all

it just kinda is

like it's so far from anything that i'd do like ever as either alignment that it just doesn't register as being ai either way to me, more of a curiosity that kinda happened

==

Are you calling your current read on me a fairly-strong meta-based read ("this")?

no atm i'd call it a vaguely-there meta-based-read that i'm still hashing out that i haven't come to a firm conclusion on

i meant in more of a general sense; even if i *was* fairly confident on meta that you were scum i wouldn't call that a guilty

i'd just call it a fairly-strong meta-based read and would probably just argue it until you or me were dead, but i wouldn't put it in the same category as a guilty in a general sense

like a guilty is mod-given info and/or mechanical info that tells me that you aren't town (of course there's varying levels of guilties; tracker-guilties aren't the same thing as cop-guilties)

whereas a fairly-strong meta-based read is just that; it's something i'd feel strongly about but i don't have evidence from the mod informing the read or anything

[skitter30]

@skitter: As for you not ever doing what Sky did as either alignment; I 100% believe you. I said >I< would, because I'm that eccentric. You are more of an orthodox player, while I'm the exact opposite. (You know how to obv!town for starters, while if I tried that I end up looking far more scummy than if I deliberately tried to act scummy!!)

So, it's very normal .. very natural to me that you, Enigma and most others would fail to see it my way (regarding what Sky did) for you would have to be me (or someone crazy) to even look at it that way.

i mean i kinda buy that this is something you'd base a read on; i'm just noting that for me the avatar thing just doesn't have ai implications either way; it's not something i can use to form a read

==

It's a meta read, but I prefer not to give it unless necessary because it involves outing an alt

Both of my alts are outed to most players I play regularly with. I have been referred to as "AP" in this very game too, so go ahead if you wish to..

So you don't choose to respond to my actual read, but the possibility of me outing your alt?

this strikes me as kinda townie actually; i don't know if i can explain why

==

ok, let's go over why a50 is crossed out i guess

what don't you like about a50? i'm pretty sure he's town here tbh

==

I don't think Gemerald has contributed a lot or made a significant impact for someone with 16 posts.

i don't know if that's scum-indicative for him tho tbh; see brass's american president's mafia where he was basically the day1 mislynch for this reason

also i think that in this playerlist he's probably one of scum's prime mislynch targets if he's town tbh

==

Kinda feel the same about Vex who has done a looooot of setupspec and asking questions which... doesn't quite put him in my townpile... (and using u and y over you and why is only strengthening that! )

vex feels pretty town to me tbh; i wouldn't put them in the same category as gamma at all

also while *a lot* of their content has been about setup spec, i feel like he's been scumhunting as well

==

No big fan of Frank either for the same reasons as Gemerald/Vex

VOTE: Gamma emerald let's do this for now I think!

why, of those three, do you decide to vote for gamma, who is the only one without any votes on him right now, if they're all at the same level for you?

==

I am. I mean, I have no reads "carved in stone" yet, but I am indeed TRing everyone aside from Antihero/ManWithNoName/FrankJaeger/Gamma Emerald.

do you townread hewhoswims? if so, why?

[skitter30]

he isn't particularly a suspect; he's kinda hard-null; like i don't think anything he siad was particularly townie or impossible for scum to fake, nor do i think that it's scummy either

i don't really have a read on him either way so i was interested in your read

[skitter30]

>my gut rxn from his "omg i'm this eccentric and random wizard from the moon, isn't that cute?" shtick is that it's overwrought for the purpose of showmanship given i haven't seen any flashes of it that feel... natural...? idk what the word is

idk i think he's just a moon-logic-y player tbh and i can buy that he's using this sort of thing to form reads; the first game with him i scumread him for it because i didn't know any better but this is like the sixth(?) game i've played with him and this is kinda characteristic of him i think

as scum he's also moon-logic-y but i think he's less likely to commit to either of his sky reads this strongly as scum; i don't really feel like early game as scum he tries to take control of the gamestate, he's just more kinda there; ime he becomes more galvanized into action as scum when he's under pressure

like the moonlogic-y behavior you're describing i think is just his playstyle, and i think that being *convicted* of it is more likely to come form town

>the whole initial angle on skygazer felt like pointing out things that are antitown (hypoclaim traitor and call to lynch the IC) but don't really even have superficially apparent scum motivation

what do you think about the people following him there (ie me + ruru + someone else i forgot)?

i kinda think that there's traitor-motivation of being conspicuously scummy tbh; i don't think there's regular-scum motivation really

i absolutely believe that this is a thing that a50 would use to form a read

i agree that he feels kinda like overly confident in his 'i've poe'd the game already to these four people' but at the same time i kinda agree that i don't really townread those people yet and also i don't know if he poe's like most of the game this early as scum

this is the sixth(?) game i've played with him and i've only been wrong once - the first game i played with him where i scumread him for the moonlogic and claiming bg on the like fourth page of stack-the-deck (mathdino's stack the deck; open 711 iirc)

two jungle-republics ago (open 712 maybe? i forget the number; the mod was mutantdevle), he repped in day1 and basically as soon as he did i death-tunneled him until we lynched him day2

he also has a known alt - ap - who i've played with twice

open 721 - i was kinda wavering on reading him for a while and tended to town on him but as soon as i figured out who ap was an alt was i had him as hard-town

last jungle republic (open 725 maybe? mod was arcangel9)- he also played under ap i think. i was kinda undecided day1 but i started day2 casing him and death-tunnelled him there too (to be fair i don't know if he would have gotten lynched there if he hadn't incidentally been guiltied n1, but i kept prodding the seer to wagon him with me to the point that the seer kinda gave up and outed the guilty; see ap's 'plan' after that for another example of moonlogic)

so all-in-all i think i'm fairly decent at reading him and overall i think he's town here

[skitter30]

y r u scumreading anti?
hes null/slight tr for me

I mean, PoE alone leaves me with only 4 suspects, so he's like 75% scum yo me.

like idk i don't really see him doing this as scum?

i don't know if he's this ... cocksure as scum either

[skitter30]

Short phone post, I'm dead and need to chill before I hit a few days apathy streak

@Skitter

my reasoning was that Vex was at least really engaged and Gemerald had made some posts more plus a bit of gut.

(Also didn't read a lot of presidents mafia sadly! I wanted to but got busy. I mostly just checked if brass was holding up)

Ruru why would it be expected town behaviour to copy your vote which iirc was the only one on the wagon

this post feels kinda off tonally

idk i can kinda buy the bolded tho; i agree with ruru that it's probably more pro-town to join her on the frank wagon but i also don't think it's anti-town or scummy to have voted gamma over frank at that stage; it's entirely possible that hws doesn't take this sort of thing into account when voting, especially not at this stage of teh game

[skitter30]

You said that after my post though.

And you can base reads on what people say apart from your questions, too.

If you're only/mostly asking questions and or discussing the setup it looks like empty busywork to me. If it goes on too long

do you currently think that vex is doing the busy-work sort of questioning?

[skitter30]

Now what exactly is townie in any of Anti/Frank/MWNN's ISOs? The latter is a strong scum lean for the very fact you would null read him: NO CONTENT. I know he can do MUCH better than this if he wanted to.

uh ... he's been v/la since the agme started, why are you scumreading him for lack of content ....?

like how can you have somebody as a strong scumlean for lack of content when the game started 3 days ago and they've been gone the whole time

i can understand a nullread or a lack of a townread but i don't understand a scumread here

[skitter30]

im not sure on a50
im currently scumleaning him

i find the scumreading the vla player

the scummiest out of all of them tho
also @a50, only use latter for two people

yeah i think this is kinda scummy too

[skitter30]

i mean he could just be busy irl; i don't really feel like that should be scumread tbh

although iirc his v/la was finished yesterday so i'm hoping he'll be around today; if it looks like he's lurking going forward i can understand that

[skitter30]

@Vex: I am not going to do your job for you, mate. I presume you know how to do a search, so you go search MWNN's games and mine. I do my fair share of searches when >I< want to verify something, so please do yours. Thank you

i'm not entirely sure why you won't source this ...

(@vex i don't think that the sky avatar thing can be legally answered given that we were asking about if the avatar thing was a response to something that happened in another game and we can't talk about ongoing games)

[skitter30]

id say my top townread is def creature for the record

[skitter30]

{creature, myself}
{skitter}
{ruru, enigma}
{mwnn, hws, sky, anti} - null
{frank, gamma}
{almost}
{none}
color code:

i have kinda similar reads to you except i think ruru is still ~nullscum and a50 i had as pretty hard town earlier but this mwnn development is making me question that

also anti is maybe nulltown? not sure yet

[skitter30]

this is a dumb thing to pick a fight about, no offense

all it does is make me wonder if this is an actual thing or if you made it up

[skitter30]

this is a dumb thing to pick a fight about, no offense

all it does is make me wonder if this is an actual thing or if you made it up

You're not thinking straight and are letting "local events" affect your "global read" on me. That said, I'll try to point you to the right direction: Why would scum!me SR specifically 4 people and TR everyone else?

Does it not "limit" my space to maneuver that I TR as many people? The space you are well aware I need to get both my "mis"lynches and my NKs through??

And why would scum!me be trying to intimidate a TOWN READ on mine? Am I trying to pocket him or alienate him here??

Finally, why would I be voicing my suspicions of MWNN when I know for a fact he can't be lynched on D1 (or at least not at this point of the day), given that the site meta is against lynching lurkers and especially so when they've declared V/LA?? You try to think of a scum motive for me to be doing all this, and then IF you find one you'd be more than welcome to reevaluate your initial read on me.

bolded - yeah i was kinda thinking that tbh; idk if you limit your lynchpool this way this early as scum

italics - idk who this is referring to

also idk if you go out of your way to pick a fight with me as scum given that i'll just argue with you till i'm blue in the face and do my best to lynch you if i scumread you and given that historically i have a pretty good track record doing so

[skitter30]

the south end of vex's reads list is good

ruru seems town to me too. skitter is competent and makes not-awful posts and i hope she's town but i still haven't gotten a good thing to get a grip on to really TOWNREAD her

enigma's posting is acceptable but i'm not really townreading him at all...?

enigma was kinda *present* during a lot of the discussions and his posting there feels kinda natural and game-solving-y if that makes sense

like his posts just sort of feel like coming from a town mindset; like it's possible that they're faked but idk they just kinda feel townie and kinda what i'd expect town to be thinking in those places. like it's no one thing i can point to just like overall tone + timing of posts

i'm actually beginning ot become concerned about ruru - i don't really feel like she feels like town!her right now

[skitter30]

i dont like this at all
i really dont
it just feels off to me
idl the whole vfr thing, (vote for roles, it comes from town of salem where everyone votes up someone just to get them to claim).
a50 trying to vfr (or at least suggesting we should) feels very off to me

i didn't really read that as an attempt to institute vfr; i thought he was interested in wagonomics and wanted to see who would join and/or leave the wagon

[skitter30]

DO YOU GET IT?

also, this frustration feels faked

i think gamma feels kinda scummy and/or affected as town

i've only played one game with him and he got mislycnhed for it

tbf i dont' know what he sounds like as scum

[skitter30]

italics - idk who this is referring to

I was talking about Vex. I said he was a TR of mine, yet I appear to be teasing him. If I'm scum I can either be trying to pocket him (with the TR) or alienate him (with the intimidation) but not both. If I wanted to pocket him then I wouldn't try to bug him, and if my purpose was to bug him then why the TR?

Also, you do realize I'm now the prime target for a Vig shot? In fact, here's a list of all possible TPRs in this setup:

- Goon Cop: Probably gonna check me, but maybe scum!me picked a modifier
- Roleblocker: Probably will consider targeting me, bit maybe I don't do the NK tonight

Hint: If scum picked no modifier it's one or the other, and if it's a Goon Cop I'm doomed.

If they did pick at least one modifier then both could be applicable and I've just wasted my N1 action

- Tracker: Similar to RB (i.e. I won't be the one carrying the NK tonight)
- Bodyguard: I sure as hell am not going to be protected by them anyway. Not with an IC in play.
- Vigilante: Check the start of this post. Anyone who might not be sure what I'm doing will probably just "do it"

Now think about me being the Traitor: Vig shooting me and me not dying is a red herring. They may assume they were RB'd on N1 so that saves me from the lynch, but then they're sure to try again on N2, and if I don't die I'm going to be lynched on D3 regardless.

Now, reread and recalculate.. does SCUM!ALMOST50 know all this, and still do what he is doing?? Why would scum!me be

baiting the Vig shot

at all????

i'm finding this post confusing; it's written from like scum!you's perspective (i know that's what you're trying to show but it took me a few tries reading through it to figure out what you were trying to say)

i don't understand the bolded

i agree that scum!you would try pretty hard not to be a vig target unless you were bulletproof, in which case you explicitly would be imo

however, i also don't really think you're *baiting* the vig shot, so much as your actions may have inadvertantly made you a emi-decent vig target (we can also debate if you're a good vig target or not but eh); like i don't know if this is something you kinda planned so much as realized after the fact, if that makes sense

[skitter30]

I don't think that one is? He can tell me whether it is, he should know which game I'm talking about. I'm going to drop a name from the game, he should be able to locate it with that.

I know the game but I;m not sure I want to check back, Anyway, I am "AP" and

I am "Judge Joseph Dredd" (I believe the latter is the one in question?)

P.S. I used "latter" correctly!

wait this is you ???

[skitter30]

no godfather mod for scum to take

if a goon has any sort of mod (like bulletproof or joat or anything) they're no longer a goon and return 'not goon' to the goon cop

unrecruited traitor also returns 'not goon' iirc

[skitter30]

i dont like this at all
i really dont
it just feels off to me
idl the whole vfr thing, (vote for roles, it comes from town of salem where everyone votes up someone just to get them to claim).
a50 trying to vfr (or at least suggesting we should) feels very off to me

i didn't really read that as an attempt to institute vfr; i thought he was interested in wagonomics and wanted to see who would join and/or leave the wagon

i can see that, but i kinda see it as an attempt at vfr as well
the two wagons part is where i get the wagonomics thing, but not really the solo wagon

the solo-wagon part immediately followed by the two-wagons part made me think it was about wagonomics

[skitter30]

I don't think that one is? He can tell me whether it is, he should know which game I'm talking about. I'm going to drop a name from the game, he should be able to locate it with that.

I know the game but I;m not sure I want to check back, Anyway, I am "AP" and

I am "Judge Joseph Dredd" (I believe the latter is the one in question?)

P.S. I used "latter" correctly!

wait this is you ???

ok i retract being perfect at reading a50 because i played with him as jjd in a game and he was kinda moonlogic-y ate-y and i townread him for it but ultimately lynched him anyways because it was about to be a deadline and there wasn't a possibility of another lynch happening; he flipped scum

idk how i would have read him if i knew it was a50

[skitter30]

no godfather mod for scum to take

skitterl it's a GOON COP. It only returns a guilty on GOONS (Vanilla Mafia). A Mafioso with ANY modifier would return an innocent to the GOON Cop.

i didn't write that quote ...

in fact i corrected him like ten posts above this one

[skitter30]

I don't think that one is? He can tell me whether it is, he should know which game I'm talking about. I'm going to drop a name from the game, he should be able to locate it with that.

I know the game but I;m not sure I want to check back, Anyway, I am "AP" and

I am "Judge Joseph Dredd" (I believe the latter is the one in question?)

P.S. I used "latter" correctly!

wait this is you ???

ok i retract being perfect at reading a50 because i played with him as jjd in a game and he was kinda moonlogic-y ate-y and i townread him for it but ultimately lynched him anyways because it was about to be a deadline and there wasn't a possibility of another lynch happening; he flipped scum

idk how i would have read him if i knew it was a50

huh i skimmed his iso there - the writing style is kinda similar but the tone was completely different; i don't think i would have ever put the two together

[skitter30]

Also we should be voting on the vig shot and like you could reasonably predict that I'm going to yell at everyone at some point today until it happens

why haven't you pushed for this yet if you think this is a thing we ought to do?

[skitter30]

i'm not entirely sure how i feel about a50 right now

my gut's kinda telling me he doesn't really act like this as scum unless he was trying to get bussed or somethiing

[skitter30]

or trying to get vigged as bp but i don't know why scum would like aim for that ...

he could be traitor signaling to groupscum maybe?

like unless he had some sort of ulterior motive that i'm not entirely seeing right now i don't think this is how he really plays scum

tbf i don't really follow of his moonlogic or follow it so it's possible he does have some sort motive/plan that i don't really see here

[skitter30]

doesn't town start with 3tprs?

or did i just make that up

the only modifer i'd pick here is daytalk tbh

[skitter30]

@skitter my thing that im mainly looking at is: why would town!a50 try to bait vigi shot into him in the first place?
scum!a50, (namely traitor!a50) has a reason to: if he feels that there is no vigi in the game, he can try to act scummy and bait mafia kill into him to try to get them to know that he's the traitor
couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions, i feel that he's scum here
if he flips town, im saying its a solid throw from him

pedit: exactly what i was thinking, he's traitor
ppedit: hang a50 plz thank me later
pppedit: jfc ninja'd again

why would scum shoot someone they think is the traitor ... that's a dumb waste of a shot imo

and why would traitor!a50 know/think there is/isn't a traitor?

i don't why getting vig-shot is on his mind at all; like taht's not really something i think about most of the time; maybe like at end of day after a flip or something, but it's not really on my mind in middle of the day

i don't think this is how he acts as groupscum at this stage of the game

but if he's traitor signalling ... he's doing a pretty bad job of it and he thinks he just made himself a vig target so why isn't he modulating his behavior here?

[skitter30]

Also we should be voting on the vig shot and like you could reasonably predict that I'm going to yell at everyone at some point today until it happens

why haven't you pushed for this yet if you think this is a thing we ought to do?

What are you trying to accomplish with this question?

because i was skimming some of your other games this morning that i wasn't in and you were town in all of them and you were pretty focused on organizing optimal pr/mechanical play from pretty early on and here you feel more lackadaisical about it which is uncharacteristic of you imo

[skitter30]

i think it's dumb to use the nk to confirm the existance of a traitor; decent scum ought to be able to find them on play and the nk can be used better killing those peskies townies imo

i haven't done the math or anything but traitors don't know how many mods there are (assuming they weren't recruited, which we're assuming here) but for all the traitor knows there are 5 tprs in play and there's a fairly decent chance one of them is a vig

like i don't know if the traitor would gamble on there not being a vig

they're only 1sbp iirc so if the vig doesn't die the same night they shot them they can always say that their target didn't die the next day (of course there's the chance of rbs, i know)

[skitter30]

or the vig can just shoot them again the next night

[skitter30]

Why would scum!me be baiting the Vig shot at all????

Was this brought up before this point, because this made me think this WASN'T the start.

i don't thikn it was brought up before that, which is why i'm a little bit confused why that's an assumption he's operating off of at all

like i don't think anyone said he was scum baiting a vig shot

p-edit what the fuck are you doing

[skitter30]

i don't even know how to read that

[skitter30]

i feel like you're almost trying to get wagoned .... ?

you're not dumb as scum so i don't get what you're trying to do here as either alignment

[skitter30]

i don't know what the vc is but i kinda want to vote you now

[skitter30]

i'm really confused because you're pretty good as scum and know when people are perceiving you as being scummy so i don't know why you're trying to be *more* scummy right now

unless you're just traitor and are trying to signal but i think if you are you'd have accomplished that already so the point of the self-vote is ... ????

[skitter30]

Now, reread and recalculate.. does SCUM!ALMOST50 know all this, and still do what he is doing?? Why would scum!me be baiting the Vig shot at all????

because you wrote a whole post explaining why it's dumb for scum!you to bait a vig shot when nobody had brought that up in the first place

[skitter30]

Getting yourself lynched d1 is hardly optimal traitor play, especially not if you're a50 and have a strong scumgame

We should also just agree to never vig or gc jestery players (sky, a50) and use the lynch on them instead if they're widely scumread

this post feels wrong and i need to think about why

[skitter30]

because i was skimming some of your other games this morning that i wasn't in and you were town in all of them and you were pretty focused on organizing optimal pr/mechanical play from pretty early on and here you feel more lackadaisical about it which is uncharacteristic of you imo

Okay, so first of all

- I'm not looking forward to it because this town doesn't seem very receptive to optimal mechanical play and I don't actually enjoy arguing with people
- It feels approximately two days into d1 even though I just realized it isn't because we can't seem to form a non-rvs wagon. There is no sense of urgency at all about needing to pick a vig shot
- I like winning but I also like working together with people I know and enjoy playing with. Unfortunately skygazer isn't playing and has only voted the IC and you're calling me scum so that lowers my engagement level significantly

Second of all, I think I've towntold since we last talked about your scumread on me so I don't really like that your read hasn't changed at all

Like I basically think of your recent post toward me as a leading question / generic shading and absolutely useless to sorting me

What's the scum motivation of "leaving out" a pro-town plan while mentioning in passing that I'm going to execute said plan today?

I also don't like that you're still nullscum-reading me after I made it clear that confidently scumreading me would get you lynched: in a bayesian sense, this is more likely to come from scum

So basically my townread on you is kind of wearing out

i don't really think you've towntold tbh

at least not in ways that i know how to read

i basically townread you for engagement + persistance in gamesolving + not feeling forced + good tone + general interest in what's going on + having a general pro-townie *presence* that's trying to move the game along + pushing mechanical ideas that will optimize town's chance of winning

and i don't really see most of those things right now

if you're not feeling engaged right now in general i guess it's probably not ai but that's a major component of how i read you and it's lacking right now

like i don't really know how to townread you if you're not doing those things and i think it's kinda unreasonable of you to expect me to townread you when you're not behaving in the way that makes me townread you (and i'm pretty sure you know what i townread you for? we talked about it a lot in 721)

where do you think you've towntold?

i don't know if there's inherent scum motivation in not starting the vig thing but again not pushing for that makes me feel like you're less engaged/less interested in optimizing the mechanics which feels kinda uncharacteristic of town!you

also wrt to the bolded:

you're conflating scumreading you with lynching you - i almost feel like you're trying to nudge me away from scumreading you by saying that if a scumread you (and thus lynch you!) i will be in trouble the next day, almost like you're trying to deter me from scumreading you by saying that i'll be scumread if i do. not like you're threatening me exactly but trying to frame that scumreading you is against my own best interest sort of

like why do i bother calling you scummy at all if i believe that calling you scummy is going to get me lynched tomorrow? like if i actually believe that's going to happen why don't i just switch to townreading you and drop the whole thing entirely?

(i also don't really think that's a thing tbh)

[skitter30]

but if he's traitor signalling ... he's doing a pretty bad job of it and he thinks he just made himself a vig target so why isn't he modulating his behavior here?

You reminded me with your first game with me. I was pushed as what?? EXACTLY! So, you might as well take that into consideration and rule out the Traitor possibility, because when someone thinks I'm signalling being the Traitor chances are I'm signalling something totally different.

right, that's kinda what i'm saying; i'm not really good at understanding your thought processes a lot of the time

sometimes there's obvious scum motivation - see last jungle republic

but i don't see what you're doing here and i had a similar line of thinking in math's stack-the-deck iirc was correctly

like none of what you're doing has scum motivation unless you're like deliberately trying to get yourself shot or lynched but i don't know why you'd do either as scum

and it feels kinda reach-y too to say you'd do this as traitor

don't get me wrong, there's like legit no town motivation either as far as i can tell

but i can't really tell what you're getting out of this as scum either and like ... you're not dumb as scum usually

[skitter30]

Getting yourself lynched d1 is hardly optimal traitor play, especially not if you're a50 and have a strong scumgame

We should also just agree to never vig or gc jestery players (sky, a50) and use the lynch on them instead if they're widely scumread

this post feels wrong and i need to think about why

This is also generic shading and it's literally for the opposite thing that you just shaded me for (not pushing my mechanical ideas vs pushing them), so I need you to explain the why

it was gut so i'm trying to figure out what it was; it sometimes takes a bit of time for me to articulate it and figure out what's bothering me; it was a note to myself to come back to it later

i think it's that 'never viging or gc'ing jestery players feels kinda like an overkill reaction given that traitors are 1s bp and both vig/gc can use their role each night and we don't even know if a traitor exists

if your'e groupscum i think that sky/a50 probably aren't from this? (and that you don't think they're the traitor)

[skitter30]

i don't know what the vc is but i kinda want to vote you now

Mine was the 4th (I'm @L-3) so you can put me to @L-2 if you want. I'd just be a little disappointed and all, but it would also have put "someone" @L-2, so MISSION ACCOMPLISHED and let's see what happens.

all in all i don't really think i want to right now

[skitter30]

oh i thought you were asking me to vote you

and i was saying that overall i dont' think there's scum motivation for what you're doing right now

there aren't really any other happening cw's right now; i was actually thinking about voting ruru but if i townread her for being engaged and being scumread by me makes her less engaged than i don't know that if voting her will cultivate the right environment for her to towntell in a way that i can read; i'm also wondering how long i ought to give her to become engaged

i'm not really feeling anti

i guess i can vote frankjaeger; i don't really actively scumread him so much as don't townread him because of his lack of presence

[skitter30]

I know that I'm tonereadable and that tone was a large factor in 721 and I think I've generated enough content here where my tone isn't super nervous which it is when I'm scum

But yes, I'm not very interested in the game and have no confident scumreads and while I think the latter is somewhat scum-indicative for me and people in general I also can't control it

the hting is that i don't really townread you quite as much for your content as much as for your tone/engagement/attitude/eagerness to gamesolve/mindmelding/timing of thoughts and votes

like you can fake townie trains of thought and scumhunting and trajectory as scum so that's not really what i use to read you. like yes i agree you have a decent amount of content but like ... i don't think you can't fake anything you've done thus far

and you don't sound super-nervous as scum (i know you're self-conscious as scum but it doesn't super come off in your posts), just more ... stilted is a good word, and town!you is a lot more free-wheeling and i don't see that here

i'm very much reminded of american presidents mafia (which i know you weren't in) where scum!duckling was faking a pr - i didn't believe it because it wasn't the town pr meta i was used to; he agreed with me that he hadn't behaved to the town pr meta that i know but then scumread me for not pr-reading him

like that's kinda what i'm getting here - you agree that your tone is off and you know that's a large part of how i read you but you're scumreading me for not townreading you ????? like i dont' really get what you want from me here when you agree you aren't behaving in the way i'd expect from town!you

I don't frame this as "I believe skitter can read me accurately" and "lynch skitter after I flip if she's confidently scumreading me" as scum

Also I started playing the game

wrt the former - i dont' know whether you would or wouldn't frame it like that as scum

wrt the lantter - i don't really feel like you have been

You have a history of reading me accurately so if you're confidently scumreading me then from a third person perspective lynching me is objectively correct and yes I would argue against it because I know my alignment but mechanically speaking, yes I am conflating those two

i guess i just don't really view this as a you-v-me 1v1 that must be resolved today? like i'm now seeing that you think this is the correct way to approach this but like i don't view this like a guilty like you seem to, more like i have fairly strong reason to read you the way i am

I think nullscumreading me without pushing my lynch is a perfectly viable option for scum.you here because it means I won't necessarily flip and immediately implicate you while still letting you shade my slot and leaving open the option of being off-wagon but not protesting strongly if I end up widely scumread, or of pushing my lynch on later days when it's deemed more worth the risk, or whatever else

i'm calling you nullscum because i don't think you've been really actively scummy, so much as you haven't towntold in ways that i know how to read

i also don't think i need to come to a firm conclusion either way right now because it's still early-mid day1 and you aren't close to getting lynched atm; also i think i'd be able to read you under that sort of pressure and i imagine i'd have a strong opinion either way at that point

But that's like 10% of my issue, 90% of my issue is that I do think my more recent posts have been more town-indicative and your read hasn't quantitatively changed at all or even gained any qualitative nuance which is what I would expect from town.you

i don't feel like your posts really have been tho

like you haven't done anything that strongly indicates town!you to me, and i think it's entirely possible that you're able to fake what you've done thus far

[skitter30]

Last part of Iso looks better than the rest I guess.

a50 - what do you think of the whole vig-thing debacle?

Though I dont agree with all of his reads. (Town lean)

anti - which reads do you disagree with

110's vote seems odd compared to the hyper logical begining of ISO. I do like the proof of your read, even If I hate using meta. 272 seems like instigating. (Null/*Small* scum read) This is more of a gut scum read so take that with a grain of salt.

me

a) how is 272 instigating?

b) 407 does not sound like you're talking to someone you're scumleaning; it kinda sounds like you're talking to someone you think is town

you have a lot more scumreads than i do; i feel like i have a lot of townreads and not enough scumreads tbh

[skitter30]

it occurs to me that gamma is an easy mislynch

it also occurs to me that if a50 is town he's made himself very easy to push by scum

[skitter30]

couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions

Hello, Eragon. Is that you? "It's his fault anyway, because I'm never wrong!"

And when did I become the center of your universe? Do you realize your one and only obsession has become A50? Are you not looking for 3 scums? Are you not interested in sorting anyone else???

also im not eragon
i would tell u if u got it right or not... after the game

still dont like a50, especially after saying they were mafia bp
will reply to the rest of the things sunday

VOTE: frank
thats for the skitter sr
like skitter is almost certainly town to me

claiming scum bp i think was in jest; i don't scumread that

i don't really care that frank is scumreading me; i'm more concerned that he was talking to me like he thought i was town just above giving me a scumread

[skitter30]

That's the thing he isn't certainly town for me.

How is he so town?

(i'm a she btw)

[skitter30]

Vex for what it's worth these reads are pretty rushed,

and I gave a disclaimer with the vex read. But i would like to see why you're convinced he's town

this pings me the wrong way

like you're being defensive and don't really have conviction in them

[skitter30]

[quote="In post 438, ruru"][/quote]

ok

HURT: mwnn

(he hasn't been anywhere on site since thursday it looks like, even on his main)

[skitter30]

Now skitter can tr me haha xd

this i kinda think is town actually

[skitter30]

A50/ruru/Creature/skitter/vex feel town imo

these feel kinda safe, no offense

[skitter30]

2/10

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Almost50

You can't yell don't talk spec after this lol.
Your vote stinks too

i don't understand this vote

why are you voting him for this?

[skitter30]

(

and I found it strange you voted Gamma over me in the first place)

, so why is your vote on me because of this specific post again?

i was thinking this too actually

[skitter30]

Youre expecting waaayyyyy too much from an early D1 reads list.

Why do I need to have such binary reads right now anyway?

Is it that unusual that I have such a big null pile?

Yeah you had a lot of self meta, which is bad. Way more scum motivation than town.

this also feels kinda wrong, also kinda defensive-y sorta? not sure how to explain it right now

like defensive + bravado-y

[skitter30]

Still waiting on ru and a50 to talk to me

... and I'm still waiting for you to explain why you're nullreading me when you're calling the majority of my content scummy self-meta and not giving any further analysis

I don't like you tunneling me before I even started posting.

I mean if you really want, I can give a few posts I like from you.maybe it would help you see my null point of view on you

yes please do

[skitter30]

VOTE: frank

ruru's feeling a little more townie now

also i like the frank wagon

[skitter30]

Why do you want to vig him when we can replace him?

Weren't you flaming a50 over "v/la is scummy"

How is voting a siteflaked player productive

if he gets replaced than i'll change that but atm he's the person i feel is the best vig shot

(i feel like vig shots should best be used for players who can't be sorted by posting, either because they aren't posting or because they're inscrutable (like nm))

probably the second-best vig shot is hws or frank?

like i don't really see the point of voting someone who isn't here to give reactions

but i think it's fine to resolve the slot through night actions

Semantics aside, you tred me on page 2 or something for not being "nervous-awkward" in 721 and I'm not nervous-awkward here

in the newbie you felt stilted/awkward/nervous/unconfident

in the open you felt carefree/unreserved

here you feel reserved + stilted, but not really awkward; it reminds me more of the scumgame than the towngame because it's lacking that carefree-ness

like it isn't exactly like the newbie but i think your tone is more similar to the newbie than the open

i don't really know how to explain it much better than that really

uh i don't really have super strong thoughts on 218; i think it shows that you're very self-aware of how your posts come across?

i don't know why i'm supposed to townread you for that post tho

[skitter30]

I'm not playing intentionally scummy and I didn't claim to be playing intentionally scummy

are you talking about this line?

i think that kinda matches ' I'm not scum. I have no idea why you think I scumclaimed, or why you think I'm confirmed scum. ' but not really?

otherwise i'm not sure what you're referring to

i don't really remember the exact wording i used in that game; i had to scroll up to figure out what that convo with rc was even about since you linked it in the middle of the page; all i remember is that he rewrote that post for me like three times because he didn't want me to come off as being scummy there

i don't know why i'm supposed to townread you off of that either tho

[skitter30]

That was the wording you used before the editing occurred, my wording was copied from the final version ('I'm not scum and I did not "scumclaim".')

I would kinda think rc editing your scumpost to make it super town would leave an impression? Like you would remember the differences both when writing scumposts and when reading other people too

the way you worded it and the way rc wrote it do'nt seem super similar to me? like the sentence structure is kinda similar but not sufficiently so that it calls back that post in particular because i use that strucutre a lot (before you ask i don't remember a particular place in a mafia game but i can probably dig some up if i have to; it's a sentence structure i'm fond of; i often use 'i don't think A nor do I think B' and 'i don't A and i also don't B')

like you put the 'claim' in the front of the second clause and rc put it out the end of it which throws off the similarity for me; like the word 'claim' isn't being used in quite the same context in both and it's throwing me off

(i know this is nit-picky but this is just how i process sentences and that makes it sufficiently different to not have the same structure really; even reading it now i don't really think it has the same structure and i couldn't figure out what sentence you meant you were mimicking)

it has a generically similar sentence structure which i use a lot but not quite similar enough that it rang any bells for that post in particular

like i remember this happening but i don't remember the exact text of the post, either the before or after version; especially since we ended up with wording he chose

also i don't think i played particularly well in that game so i don't think i've dwelled on it super much tbh

Subject: Micro 724: Mafia Thread

2. I'm not scum and I did not "scumclaim".

I'm not playing intentionally scummy and I didn't claim to be playing intentionally scummy

[skitter30]

either way i don't know what why that's supposed to make me townread you?

[skitter30]

Because in the universe where you think exactly the same way as me it would make you.me townread me.me except that's not actually how logic works so whatever

uh, ok i guess? that isn't something i'd townread you for really

i do think the moonlogic is more likely to come from town!you i think; scum!you is a lot more ... planned i think

[skitter30]

ManWithNoName has not responded to his prod.

---

ceejayvinoya replaces ManWithNoName. Welcome!

hello!

[skitter30]

like here.

(i hated that game and actively try to scrub it from my memory

i forgot you were in it )

[skitter30]

Your reservation about there not being a cop in the game? Well if there is no cop, then there is little benefit but if there is a cop it is helpful. Plus it forces scum to put something on the table and potential discussions about choice of targets, so thats is a benefit regardless of cop/no cop. I mean do you have any reservations about downsides?

Well if there is no cop, scum could deduce that from hypo results and determine that it's a safe fakeclaim.

Plus homesite meta generally makes me uneasy about hypocop except when it's proven effective (like in cop 13Ps on MU)

i'm not entirely sure how they'd be able to figure that out tbh

they'd need like *all* townies to hypo-inno traitor and/or modified groupscum or something for that to happen

[skitter30]

439 was pure sarcasm because the hypocop post is 100% nai and skitter was scumreading me for not making it a couple days earlier which is really silly

also hi ceejay!

Yeh ok haha. NAI.
Do you still TR skitter btw?

No

My reaction test was probably silly but

I'm conflicted between her probably not wanting to pick a 1v1 with me as scum and the fact that she should've townread me like 10 pages ago and her saying "oh ruru is kinda town now" and sheeping my lynchpool doesn't really make me feel better about her?

I don't like her mwnn vote either

I don't like the weird burden on me to make a post about mechanics by a certain time. If anything I think town.her would be more likely to just not comment it and then scumread me at eod if I still hadn't done it, shading me for not having made the post yet is just weird

And if we're talking about me reading her reactively it's because her posting style is naturally townish as either alignment (source) and I give bop a fairly strong weight when reading her especially when it comes to reading me which she's historically good at

i think i would have just called you obvtown, pocketed you, and shot you at some convenient time as scum tbh

i don't think i bother going this route as scum like this, especially since you said you thought i get pl'd the next day if i'm wrong

idk i don't strongly townread you; i'm stating exactly what i think and right now i don't see it really - you're more townie than before but not like hilariously beyond obvtown or anything and you haven't been townie enough to remove/negate my hesitations here

i think empty slots are basically exactly what vig shots are for

i hadn't commented on the mechanics thing till you brought it up; i kinda forgot about it then i realized i'm used to you getting into it earlier

ye i agree that i kinda post in a generically townie way; that itself isn't what i should be read by necessarily (have you read like every single scum PT i've ever had or something ...?)

i don't know if my reads are good enough in a general sense to bop me tho; i have tendency to get hard-tunneled, which can last several dayphases and i'm not very good at breaking out of it by myself; i usually need someone like math to talk me out of it

i'm kinda aware that i might be tunneled here which is partially why i'm not going full-force on this, especially since both vex and a50 think you're town. also i think my reads get better the later on in the game i am; like i'm aware that my mid-day1 reads aren't always great so i kinda take them with a grain of salt

[skitter30]

a50 - what do you think of the whole vig-thing debacle?

I think it's silly and was taken way out of proportion, as I clearly was talking about all possibilities and not just the Vig.

oh sorry that was meant to indicate that it was in the section about you in frank's wall o' reads, not that i meant for you to answer it; it was a question directed at frank

[skitter30]

they'd need like *all* townies to hypo-inno traitor and/or modified groupscum or something for that to happen

That's like .. the exact opposite. The Goon Cop

will

get an inno on the Traitor and/or modified groupscum. Goon Cops only get guilties on GOONS (Vanilla Mafia).

yes, i know

so i'm saying that unless someone gives an inno on on a goon (ie and scum thus know that this wasn't a real check by the real gooncop on scum), and all townies do this, thus allowing scum to poe the real gooncop, i don't know how hypo-innos will out the real-gooncop

[skitter30]

ok if we want to go this route

vig - viewtopic.php?p=10282567#p10282567 (midway through the post; i say vig pl-worthy players; i have a general rant about vigging nm as the best way to sort him)

viewtopic.php?p=9926573#p9926573

like i generally think that the vig exists to take care of pl-worthy slots so that we don't have to spend a lynch on it

viewtopic.php?p=9901266#p9901266 (wanted to vig creature for hard-lurking two stack-the-decks ago; incidentally he was scum and it would have been helpful if *someone* hadn't talked me out of it)

trying not tunnel because else i do stupid things like lynch math day1 and turn the gamestate into a shitshow while i 1v1 people:

viewtopic.php?p=10273938#p10273938

viewtopic.php?p=10181339#p10181339

viewtopic.php?p=10127374#p10127374

viewtopic.php?p=10132703#p10132703

it's not like i'm afraid of 1v1'ing or anything and i'll happily get into it if i think i'm right; i kinda like 1v1 and debating with people and, well, winning those sorts of arguments.

i just try to avoid it when i'm not completely sold on the read because it sometimes is kinda damaging to the gamestate (cough both of the newbies you've referenced cough) and i'm not 100% convinced you're scum right now, not enough to make a 1v1 about it that must be resolved at this moment via lynching you or me.

like i'll 1v1 if i'm very confident if i'm right (or if i think that people are pushing me for stupid reasons and i want to pick their argments apart). i'm not very confident that i'm right on you right now. i don't have much interest in picking a fight over something i'm not confident about, especially since i know i can very very easily get carried away over the tunneling and make like 10 pages of walling back and forths that nobody wants to read that makes everyone else kinda tune out of the game (cough two jungle-republics ago cough) and my read on you isn't strong enough that i'm willing to fuck the gamestate over with it right now

and deathtunneling is not a thing i can really fake as scum

viewtopic.php?p=10207932#p10207932

====

idk i really don't think i bother waffling around with a nullscum read on you as scum; at the very least i think i modulate my read once i realize i'm getting flak for it

i haven't commited ot a confident read because i'm not that confident. like i said before - i don't think you've like actively scumtold but your tone is more similar to the scumgame and i don't think you've towntold in the way i need you to to locktown you. i also think that we're fairly early in the game and that i can take some more time/sorting to come to a conclusion either way

i don't townread you enough to inno you at this stage. i just don't.

i think that in general my reads lategame are a lot better than early game - like i've been correct in xylo all but once but i've more than once been on a day1 mislynch (which tends to happen because i get tunneled early which is why i'm like trying not to do that), or townread scum day1

i don't know if you try to legit push for my lynch as scum here in this gamestate because a) i don't think it's actually happening any time soon and b) that's a fairly unpopular opinion that people are legitimately getting voted over (ie two people are voting frank right now at least in part because he's scumreading me)

i don't think that saying 'i need more time to sort you' is the same thing as saying i want to 'just exist in the game and have no accountability for a slot that you should be able to read and have no accountability for not getting shot '

[skitter30]

Like almost everyone has bad d1 reads but bop shouldn't apply to you lategame because reasons

????

i don't think i said anywhere that bop shouldn't apply to me lategame? in fact i said that my reads lategame are a lot better than earlygame - i trust my reads lategame a lot more than i trust my reads earlygame, which is why i'm not commiting to a read on you just yet; i don't think it's right to turn on tunnel mode when i'm not convinced of the read here

i don't entirely understand what you're taking issue with honestly

And bop on someone you know how to toneread shouldn't apply to you because reasons

i'm telling you that on tone i don't think you've towntold

or at least, definitely not strongly enough to inno you for

and when i said i wasn't townreading you because your engagement wasn't what i expected you agreed with me so i don't know what you want from me exactly ... ?

I don't think arguing that bop shouldn't apply to you is the same thing as saying "i need more time to sort you'

i said like six times that i don't think i can commit to a read on you right now

i don't think that my reads day1 are good enough to be bop'd

==

like i almost feel like you're trying to pick a fight with me or something? or that we're talking past each other?

[skitter30]

vig pl-worthy players

You're talking about pling a slot that's hours from being force replaced that's completely different from nm.

yes, i think an empty slot is a good vig shot; until/unless the slot produces content i think that's one of the best ways a vig slot can be expended

==

like i almost feel like you're trying to pick a fight with me or something? or that we're talking past each other?

You're passive-aggressively shading everything I do and half of your questions don't even feel like you're trying to sort me in good faith

Like what do you expect me to do in this situation?

i feel like this is what you're doing to me

i feel like you're trying to pick a fight or find something you can start an argument over

==

I'm saying you should be boped a) if you confidently scumread me and I flip town or b) if it's lategame and you haven't found scum

a) is a personal expectation based on our game history

b) is because you're a strong player as both alignments

i don't confidentaly scumread you right now

it has nothing to do with optics or what i think will happen after you flip; i really, really, really don't care about those things and i think can outargue just about anything if i'm not v/la to avoid a mislynch on me

(maybe not a fake-guilty; i've never had to try that)

i don't confidentally scumread you right now because i don't think you've really been actively scummy but rather that your tone matches more the newbie than the open

*things that i can't talk about right now*

==

This is as far as I can tell you undermining your own reads in a general sense and saying you categorically shouldn't be boped

you were talking about not-reading you right specifically

i was explaining why i don't think i trust my read on you right now because i can kinda see some of the signs that indicate that i might be tunneled, and that therefore i don't think the read is strong enough to start a thing over right now

and also that i don't put as much credence in my day1 reads as in my later game reads after there have been flips and wagons and associatves to sort through

[skitter30]

the slots that I'm most interested in right now (hws/sky/cjv) are all afk

well I guess I'm interested in this: how are you reading frank/hws/sky/antihero/enigma?

scumlean / null / scummy side of null / townie side of null / townlean

==

This is as far as I can tell you undermining your own reads in a general sense and saying you categorically shouldn't be boped

idk, that's just kinda his personality i think

the first time i played with him - two stack-the-decks ago - he called himself a 'bad guy' on like page 4, which got taken by several people to be a traitor claim / signalling thing; he was actually softing bg (Bad Guy) and decided to fullclaim a page later

he was in fact a town bg who confusingly protected a guy who was vig shot *and* nk'd the same night; it led to much mechanical confusion

==

Oh no!

HURT: sky

==

Hi!

I'll get to this when I come home from school.

That's in about 5 to 6 hours.

[skitter30]

Oh no!

HURT: sky

do you disagree that sky has high bp equity?

i don't know if a vig exists, a traitor exists, or if a bp-goon exists so overall bp-equity-ness is not something i'm overthinking too much

also i think baiting a vig shot as bp-goon is dumb, and if she were the traitor i think she kinda got her point across in rvs so i don't know why she'd continue behaving in that jester-y fashion as you call it

i think she's scummy, but more in a passive sense while frank is like actively scummy. frank is number one on my flip-list so i'm voting him

[skitter30]

Frank is like never making endgame regardless of whether a vig exists

Do you actually think frank has higher bp equity than sky or do you just think my plan is stupid?

i don't really process this in terms of bp-equity tbh; i'm not even sure what a likely-to-be-bp tell would look like in this context tbh. maybe being bravado-y in hte face of getting vigged?

like i don't know if a bp or vig even exists so searching for likely-to-be-bp tells just isn't how i'm processing this game

i think they're both scummy; frank actively so (ie his posting is scummy) and sky passively so (ie her early posting was bad - in RVS - and her content after that has kinda dropped off both in quantity and quality). frank i think is worse so i want to flip him first

that's the best way i know how to answer that question

not sure if picking up multiple prods on site and off site counts as active elsewhere but okay

i'm not really voting you for the ellitell; i hadn't really checked your overall site activity or anything

more like the only thing you had to say upon being prodded was 'oh no'

[skitter30]

How highly do you rate ellitell in general?

in a general sense, like medium strongly, but i also think it's very player and context specific - like does the player in question like playing scum, whether or the game in question is active or slogging, etc

i don't know sky well enough to know whether or not she likes playing scum

i dislike more that the only thing she had to say upon being prodded was 'on no' instead of providing game-related content at that point

[skitter30]

why has nobody talked about vig holstering? unless i missed it

what do you think a hypothetical vig ought to do tonight?

==

Can you check sky's profile then instead of just voting frank if you rate ellitell highly

my problem with doing this in practice is that

a) i feel stalker-y

b) since other games are ongoing i don't really know how to talk about what i've found beyond 'yes she has been posting elsewhere on site too, yes i agree that posting more elsewhere than here is slightly scummy, i don't know if she's less likely to post as scum tho'

I don't have personal experience with ellitell finding scum (I've only seen it give a false positive on ofrhz) nor do I know exactly how highly to rate it so basically I'm interested in other people's opinions here

i had it work once - splatoon mafia, which i htink has been mentioned this game already; i caught mylo and got others to vote him off of it; and mylo absolutely abhor(s/ed) playing scum and doesn't think he's good at it and hates posting as scum

==

Sky please towntell somehow because my enjoyment of the game is super low right now and I don't actually want you to be scum

i think this is townie of you maybe?

==

Frank I'm not sure on, I don't really get the hate
hws kinda feels like something is amiss
sky I think the inactivity is not really indicative of anything, but I don't really know what to make of their content yet
antihero I haven't seen a reason to be skeptical of yet
Enigma has felt lurky, I'd forgotten h was in the game until someone else mentioned him and he seems to have slipped back away.

what are your strong reads right now?

==

vex's wall o'reads (spoilered just so this post isn't too long)

Spoiler:

these two posts don't feel genuine. the frustration behind the two dont feel real to me imo only scum would try to feign frustration, not town

^^^ this was wrt to gamma. again i've only played with him once (american presidents mafia) but he just kinda seems like affected/overdramatic/RANDOM CAPS and he does that as town? idk if htat's ai; he got mislyneched for that + lurking there

In post 503, skitter30 wrote:
it occurs to me that gamma is an easy mislynch

it also occurs to me that if a50 is town he's made himself very easy to push by scum

how so to both?

gamma is kinda lynch-bait-y as town and there's a bunch of strong players in this playerlist and the pool of mislynches isn't super big (ie creature's conftown and i dont' think that me/you/probably ruru /probably a50 are viable lynches at this point. if we're all town taht leaves 7 players with three scum which leaves with a small-ish lynchpool)

a50 because of his self-vote + setup spec + vig talk; all that's easy to push by scum (i think he's less lynchable now than then)

i feel like you're trying to pick a fight or find something you can start an argument over


how so? im not really getting that vibe from it

i felt like that wrt her scumreading me for not townreading her; like she was telling me that i was scummy for not recognizing her townplay even though she agreed that she hadn't been behaving the way i'd recognize as town

also arguing that i didn't want to have accountability for being able to read her slot because i hadn't said that anywhere; i felt like she was misreading my posts at best or at worst kinda felt like she was taking my words to extremes that i didn't intend; also 582 because i hadn't said those things so i was very confused where she was getting those things from

p-edit: i see that there ar a lot of p-edits but i'm going to end this post here and start a new one

[skitter30]

plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Maybe I survive tonight if it feels like I won't be helpful.

eh i kinda think you should try to be helpful now becuase you don't know if you'll be alive tonight

[skitter30]

plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Maybe I survive tonight if it feels like I won't be helpful.

if anyone was doubting vex was town this post should dispel those doubts imo

[skitter30]

Would I be wrong in saying its anti town to spend your energy on arguing with the I.C?

why do you think this is anti-town?

[skitter30]

Almost50 (3): Antihero, Gamma Emerald, FrankJaeger

the longer this wagon sits here the more i dislike it

sky/engima why aren't you voting?

(i guess i'll give cj a pass for another day or two irl but i think that the gamestate woudl perhaps be much better if everyone was voting)

[skitter30]

no, but you just justified my own read.

in ur reads post as well, u said:

Open to answer any questions

for a couple of hours

.

only later to say to me:

Vex for what it's worth these reads

[the ones im referring to]

are pretty rushed, and I gave a disclaimer with the vex read. But i would like to see why you're convinced he's town

but why am i calling attention to that u might be asking?

because if u were available for a couple of hours, u could have used that time to make better, non-rushed reads, yet u didnt, u chose to use that time to answer question

This is the worst reason I've ever seen.

PLUS WHY WOULD TOWN IGNORE THIS 1 PIECE OF VITAL INFO -

Sorry for sloppy format, I just copied and pasted some notes I wrote while going over said ISO's.

Tried to make it pretty and failed, accidentally deleted most of the post

. So here ya go.

Open to answer any questions for a couple of hours.

I phone post most of the time. I gave a basic read least after fucking up my post. Offered to talk about these basic reads in more detail, as I had a few hours before bed. In these few hours before bed, I have several things going on. I cant conjure the motivation to retype a WHOLE READS LIST at that point.

Does town have motivation to take this utterly

horrible

read, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME ignore the context? Im not sure here...

At this point in the game Im going to call it Lazy scum hunting (kind of understandable- there is nothing else really going on).

the couple-of-hours thing doesn't bother me super much tbh, especially given phone-posting etc

i kinda thought the most important part of 649 was

by saying "oh well making a wall towards the ic but not replying to me is anti-town", it proves u are not town, unless ur trying to hurt the town, (implying ur mafia).
i cant see town!frank making that "ur anti-town for arguing with the ic", but i can certainly see scum!frank make that post to try to make it seem like ur actively trying to scumhunt, when in actuality, ur not.
once again, this proves to me, u are scum.

this part

like i don't know why asking the ic to be more active in a game where we don't know if we have protectives is anti-town, and i think vex's thought process there was very townie and relatable

i'm a little more concerned that you found his wall towards creature to be anti-town, and that when vex made his second-wall, the one directed at you that talked about the rushed reads-list thing and the creature-wall thing and your reaction to it, you decided to focus on the rushed-reads-list and not your reaction to the creature wall which i think is more important/scummier

[skitter30]

VOTE: frank

ruru's feeling a little more townie now

also i like the frank wagon

I think I found 2 other post where you call me scummy , but nothing supporting.

Care to talk about it?

i didn't like your readlist really (not enough townreads for that state of the game) or your vote on gamma; i kinda felt like a50 made more sense given the gamestate and your reads.

your tone feels kinda wrong

i don't understand your a50 vote

in general there's like anti-mind-melding or something going on between me and you - like it kinda reaffirms a townread or makes me want to townread someone when their reads or thought processes mimic my own and i'm just not getting that from you at all; sometimes you're like thinking the opposite of me and i'm not really understanding how you're coming to your conclusions

like i don't know if it's one thing so much as all of these overall + general tone + thought process

[skitter30]

plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Maybe I survive tonight if it feels like I won't be helpful.

if anyone was doubting vex was town this post should dispel those doubts imo

Oh jeez i think the opposite

^^^^ example of anti-mind-melding

like that post just exudes towniness imo

[skitter30]

Would I be wrong in saying its anti town to spend your energy on arguing with the I.C?

why do you think this is anti-town?

Compare all that effort to his scum hunting

He isnt my biggest scum read. More null scum based of his interactions with me mostly

i think he's put a lot of effort into scumhunting?

wrt to his read on you do you think he:

a) is picking something stupid to force a fight over to scumread you and justify the read

b) genunitely believes the rushed-reads thing is scummy

c) other

[skitter30]

Almost50 (3): Antihero, Gamma Emerald, FrankJaeger

the longer this wagon sits here the more i dislike it

What do you mean

i townread a50 and don't townread any of the people voting him; anti was maybe null-town earlier but the town part of that read is kinda fading down to null

whereas i scumread you and townread a50 + vex + coming arouind to town on ruru i think (she's not on the wagon now but was earlier and she is saying she thinks you ought to be vigged)

[skitter30]

wrt to his read on you do you think he:

a) is picking something stupid to force a fight over to scumread you and justify the read

b) genunitely believes the rushed-reads thing is scummy

c) other

@frank ^^^^

==

for which side? me being town or scum?

i was saying that post was pretty town; i don't think it comes from a scum mindset really

also is this sarcasm skitter?

no, i quite meant that

==

@skit
Im making the point that its not very town to choose to argue with an I C over trying to push his scum pick.

He took priority in something of less importance.

Im not saying he was wrong in anything he said to him

ok, eli5 why you think this is antitown

like i can kinda see the problem with the bolded if we were talking about a player who popped in once every two days and wasn't an active poster - this isn't vex though; he's a fairly active poster; i don't think that just because he prioritized the creature wall meant that he wasn't going to get around to talking to you or something; i think he just meant that's all he had time for at that moment but that he was going to get to your stuff later when he had a chance

basically idon't understand why that's anti-town for him to write about that first

==

Idk even though skit is ignoring it, ive posted my reasons for my A50 vote. Haven't seen anything to change it so far

what do you think i'm ignoring?

[skitter30]

Thank you ofrhz

Hello

I will catchup fully probably during the weekend.

Based on first 5 pages: vex, skitter, skygazer and young man A29 are town. Hewhoswims and Enigma are scum.

I don't normally replace people so this is new to me enjoy my tease. More to come.

hello! why town on sky and scum on hws?

==

Regarding Enigma:
In those 5 pages the number of pagetops, posts about pagetops, jokes about pagetops, and posts about setup make up an awfully large portion of his total posts.

I really don't like pagetop grabbing.. I know many townies do it but it doesn't help at all and sometimes people compete over them which helps artificially boost post and page counts. It's a bit of a personal bias of mine.

i'm confused - if you agree that townies do it why are you viewing it as scummy here?

[skitter30]

also, for main, i looked back through your alts, uve only played in one game of mine, (that was under AP). i thought u had played in another game i had modded unless ur hiding another alt on me. that one is just on me then

I figured it out i think; ive only seen the wall o' reads like that once before but I didnt think it was you given that the town and overall posting style are drastically different; would never have guessed that tbh

[skitter30]

:3

im gonna assume a few things here:
i'm assuming you're talking about MD's jungle republic, namely, post 229, made by Korina when you say "the wall o' reads", which would mean, you're thinking my main is Korina.

which, yea, you're right on that. i am korina.
i just needed the right motivation to actually sit down and play knowing i wont get instantly pl'd just for being in the game.
the wonders of not pling me are amazing because you get towngames like this from me where i put forth serious amounts of effort into gamesolving.

yeah pretty much; the first wall o' reads reminded me of the korina post but i dismissed it; than you said you modded a game ap played and from there it was pretty easy to figure out

if you want thoughts on what i think about your alt in comparison to your main lmk

==

i like your sky case

==

@orfhz: i need to replace out

more and more stuff keeps piling on at work and school and i cant reasonably keep up in this game when i'm already ridiculously behind in it. I feel like it's unfair to those actually playing rn

sorry to all :/

bye sky i like playing with you

==

This wagon on me is horrible guys. Really starting to see vex as scum as well.

wrt to his read on you do you think he:

a) is picking something stupid to force a fight over to scumread you and justify the read

b) genunitely believes the rushed-reads thing is scummy

c) other

@frank ^^^^

@frank ^^^^

also why is the wagon on you bad?

==

i just want to point out that it's possible for none of the folloiwng to exist at all: traitor, mafia bp, and vig

and that's why i'm not worrying about it too much right now

[skitter30]

@vex ye that was my thought too; remind me after the game then

[skitter30]

ah you were totally lying in wait for that pagetop, lol

[skitter30]

ok can you explain why B would tip the read down to nullscum than?

He isnt my biggest scum read. More null scum based of his interactions with me mostly

basically i was kinda confused how immediately after the rushed readslist thing you had him as nullscum? like in that scenario i think i would view someone as either:

-> scum who was making someone up to mislynch me

-> townie who was very convinced but very wrong

like i feel like i would have a strong opinion either way; i don't really understand how that argument would make you scumread someone enough to drop the townread but not enough to fully scumread them? like it's a weird middle-ground that doesn't fully make sense to me

[skitter30]

@vex ye that was my thought too; remind me after the game then

I don't think Sky's replace out was actually tactical.

oh i was talking about the korina-alt thing, not the sky repout here

[skitter30]

duckling!!!!

hi!!!!

you repped into a scummy slot again and i kinda want to have your slot vigged

also frank is scummy

and vex is like the towniest town to town, pretty sure a50 is town too

[skitter30]

eh, confscum

[skitter30]

ye, fun times, right?

if you're town be obvtown so that you don't get vigged and/or lynched

(there's much discussion as to whether or not your slot is traitor and you ought to be vigged at all)

[skitter30]

yeah like on the first like four pages or so but i think it's a dumb discussion because there's really no way to know what they took at this stage

[skitter30]

I'm soulreading you as scum skitter but I haven't read the thread yet so please accept this as an "in my dream last night....." level read

if this is a real read you have in like a day or two in real time i will death-tunnel you, fair warning

[skitter30]

@ruru i don't get why traitor jester-posts at this stage; it just gets them scumread ....

you can argue that traitor!tw might because he doiesn't know what sky did but why does traitor!sky keep that up?

[skitter30]

ah ok

also for sky? becuase you were talking about her jester-posting a lot

[skitter30]

so wait why do you think sky is traitor? i thought you were basing the traitor-read on her jester-posting?

[skitter30]

so you just think she's <generic> scum but any scum has a semi-decent chance of being bp which is why you'd rather lynch her?

[skitter30]

so what do you think she was doing wrt to the jester-y posts then?

i'm just kinda confused why you've been bringing that up a lot, unless that was a meme in which case i kinda misread what you were trying to say wrt sky i think because i thought you were traitor-reading her because you thought she was jester-posting

[skitter30]

skitter what do you think of ceejay?

has anyone else played with him before?

~nullscum-ish

i don't really actively scumread him so much as passively - like i don't really townread him and i have a lot of townreads so he's scummier than average because mwnn idn't do anything and i'm kinda like thorougly underwhelmed by cj's catchup thus far and the fact that he isn't really interacting with anything

i think tw's vote is decent; would rather it be on frank tho

i've one completed game with cj; he bussed wolf!ap and coasted on that through most of the game; i caught him in mylo in jungle republic; nobody would vote him with me and i'm still kinda annoyed about that game

i don't know if i can meta him particularly well tho

[skitter30]

brass kinda site-flaked tho i think

i don't know if it's indicative for this game in particular

i do agree that cj's catchup is underwhelming

[skitter30]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is if it's normal for cj or not like I thought he has a lynchbaity meta and always lurks?

so I'm wondering what produces that kind of confidence in reading him

yeah that's kinda point; i'm not super confident i can read him; at least part of the reason i caught him last time was on associatives + poe

don't feel super confident reading him either way right now but kinda erring to nullscum if that makes sense

[skitter30]

(hints: its still the second option)

yeah that's waht i think

i was trying to get to my point that it doesn't make much sense to me for him to be nullscumreading you there; like i can understand why he might think you were town but wrong or scum trying to fabricate a case but i odn't get nullscum

==

I want to move my vote off A50 but I don't recall him responding to my actually presentation of the game that should counter his philosophy about how scum interact with ICs

why is that keeping-your-vote-in-him worthy?

idk i don't really like you sitting on this vote tbh

==

so Creature
I'm thinking you're probably town this time

so duckling
i'm thinking you might be scum this time

your tone is kinda off imo. i acknowledge that you haven't quite gotten into the game yet but atm your posts are kinda scumpinging me

[skitter30]

@skitter

I'll vote Frank if his lynch will help you crack the game open

this post (and the cjv vote to some extent) pinged me but that's about it so I'm curious what you saw

these ones feel off tonally; i don't think i can explain it better than literally just 'feel off tonally'

if it helps i'm good at reading him tonally and he agrees that i'm good at reading him tonally (and last time we did this he tried to argue that me tonally reading him was scummy even though he had told me the week before i was good at it )

not strongly enough to death-tunnel him especially given the amount of content he has thus far but enough that i'm wary and wanted to say it

Spoiler:

ya I'll work on being obvtown

first order of business is getting a read on a50 on my lunch break!!

I'm soulreading you as scum skitter but I haven't read the thread yet so please accept this as an "in my dream last night....." level read

ok idk any of u but i did some theorizing pregame
mafia likely took two modifiers pregame, joat and daytalk meaning we have at most 4 townprs.

vex is probably town thru sheer post count (my eyes are bleeding) but if he is scum the scumteam stinks

too much conviction in an insanely bad choice of powers

Not Voting (1): ceejayvinoya

*distant sound of howling*

this one i can actually explain why it bothers me; don't know why he's pushing it like this given that his read is:

That'd be an "heavy enough FOS that I'm currently fine if it leads to your lynch"

@vex I've skimmed your walls, they're fine

I'll do a proper full read when I'm in the mood to

==

@skitter have you seen me rep into a town slot before?

uh actually not sure? i don't remember offhand but i feel like yes probably but i'd have to check

however i did just see you rep into a scum slot so

[skitter30]

just gonna set the record straight.

your read on me here feels really over keen as hell.

those posts are me being me and just because you caught me as scum once in a doomed slot that doesn't have any bearing on my alignment (and nor does it mean I'm a free lynch for you to pull out of your hat wheneverthefuck)

currently slightly more likely a bad taken from town!you than a bad setup from scum!you but either way it's bad and I'm not sure how to feel about that yet

having said that you do have experience misreading town!me so it's probably earnest

i mean you're also forgetting the fact that i was scumreading sky before you repped on; i spent like three hundred posts or so voting your slot earlier this game and i've been actively arguing that your slot is a good vig shot for several days now; it's not like my read on the slot is just about you

also i'm noting that you're kinda downplaying my tonal read accuracy on you when we both know i can read you tonally (ie in jungle republic - yes you were town but you were trying to act scummy - and american presidents; 'just because you caught me as scum once in a doomed slot that doesn't have any bearing on my alignment' feels like spin)

do you think i'm treating this like 'I'm a free lynch for you to pull out of your hat wheneverthefuck'?

[skitter30]

also i'm noting that you're kinda downplaying my tonal read accuracy on you when we both know i can read you tonally

Yea im not seeing how someone wouldnt down play a "tonal" read. What does that even mean anyway? Looks like something to say without needing to support it

no, it means that i'm good at reading him tonally; i can cite him saying that if you need me too

what i meant by donwplaying is that he was using loaded words like 'doomed slot', which imply that i was only right there because his slot was in a bad place; i don't think that slot was 'doomed' though when he repped in; that's an exagerration and the way he used it kinda indicates that it's not particularly interesting or noteworthy that i caught him there given that the slot was scummy

Subject: American Presidents, the War Room Mafia PT

so skitter is highly aware that she already knows how to read me tonally so I might need to make a lot of noise for a bit

from the scum pt of that game; i'm not just making stuff up

==

not rn no I'm just concerned you're undervaluing me.

you're very tunnelled on my slot and it doesn't feel like you're giving me any room to do my thing.

i mean i'm not actively death-tunneling you or pushing your lynch right now, and i did say that i think it could be because you haven't really gotten into a groove yet

i do think that you feel a bit off tho and i wanted to note taht

i also think that i can give you some space to catchup and that i don't know if you're my ideal lynch candidate atm because i would feel kinda bad if town!you got vigged before you really got into the game

and i think i know how to read you and that with a bit more time after you get into the game i can sort you confidentally

[skitter30]

i don't even know what you're trying to say by that

my read isn't based on his reads of me; i didn't say or imply that anywhwere

i'm stating that him calling his slot in that game - american presidents mafia - a 'doomed slot' seems like loaded language to me because such language implies that i caught him because the slot itself was scummy becaue of his predecessor, not because of his own play; i don't think that's why i caught him given that i wasn't particularly scumreading his slot before he repped in, and i think it's an exagerration to describe his predecessor that way

i'm saying that in other places where he wasn't trying to mislead people as scum he said that he thinks i can read him tonally, so i think it's slightly disingenuous of him to accredit my read on his slot in that game on to his predecessor's play when i caught him on his play and that i should thus discount a toneread on him here

[skitter30]

i also think that i can give you some space to catchup and that i don't know if you're my ideal lynch candidate atm because i would feel kinda bad if town!you got vigged before you really got into the game

and i think i know how to read you and that with a bit more time after you get into the game i can sort you confidentally

I'll take this

who do you see as my scumbuddy/ies and who's my traitor? this setup is well suited to your analysis style imo, are you kinda sensing anything fishy?

i don't have strong associative-based reads right now

i think that traitor-hunting is silly given that i don't know if a traitor even exists (two stack-the-decks ago there wasn't a traitor, and i'm pretty sure that in the last one there wasn't either); i'm just looking for general scummy behavior

{creature}
{a50, vex}
{ruru, enigma}
{hws, bujaber} ---- > null
{gamma, cj}
{you}
{frank}

[skitter30]

IDK what I'm getting from cjv is pretty similar to the current best meta tell on scum!Creature

normally it feels like he's mislynched because he lurks for ages then says what's actually on his mind without stepping anyone through his thought processes and his reads are actually often absolutely fine it's just he doesn't always explain them

here he's taken quite a lot of time to produce incredibly safe reads with reasoning and then occasionally floats in and says the game is moving too fast

I just kinda want something that blows my mind, or a lynch

yeah i kinda agree with this; i'm just not sure if this is atypical of him or not

[skitter30]

having said that I haven't really red Frank yet honestly but his reaction to your reaction to my replace in was scummy

he's the person i want dead most today

can you prioritize reading through his ISO when you catchup? would be interested in hearing your thoughts

[skitter30]

@ruru: why do you think that? i actually feel like i have a pretty good lynchpool for a game this size at this stage, especially if we do in fact have a vig

[skitter30]

It's semi-mountainous and creatue rolling ic is negative utility because he'd probably be doing more if he was just vt

I don't trust your alignment

a50 is probably town but I don't know how much of his towniness is rolecard and how much of it is him trying harder on his main account

the whole pool of {gamma, frank, enigma, hws, cjv} is basically doing nothing and the players who are doing things are going to get shot and then the game is going to be left up to randomness and normally it's possible to clear 1-2 lynchbaity players d1 by forcing them to towntell but nobody has done that.

i'm basically at: crature/vex/a50, probably you/enigma are town; some subset of this + me gets shot

frank is very very likely scum; tw might be too but i'm willing to wait a day and not vig him tonight honestly

don't know what to do with cj/gamma/buj

i'm kinda down to wagon any of the above three to see if that'll make them do something interesting; on the condition that frank gets lynched and/or vigged today

and that's basically where i'm at

[skitter30]

also if i get nk'd at all it prob wont' be till at least n3 so i'll have a while in this game to work on it

[skitter30]

i haven't seen like anything townie from him?

like i can't think of anything

like he's done literally nothign that makes me thing 'hmmm that might come from town'

and his reaction to the the vex scumread of him was kinda bad and there was just a lot of anti-mindmelding

[skitter30]

idk i really feel like i'm vibing with this game and playerlist and i don't have this hopeless feel at all

[skitter30]

idk do you want to wagon them and see what happens? I don't know how else to try to get them engaged; tbf to buj i do think he's usually pretty engaged and said he would be here over the weekend

i wouldn't object to like any of them getting shot tho

also just noting that the general resistance ot the frank wagon points to scum!frank

[skitter30]

VOTE: cj
HURT: frank

[skitter30]

that's l-2 btw

only person on the wagon i'm not super comfortable with is tw

[skitter30]

i don't know if i want the day to end with a cj lynch tho

p-edit yeah but it isn't going above l-4 iirc and people have been slowly trickling off of it and i don't think anybody except maybe creature has expressed any sort of townread on him

[skitter30]

sorry it got up to l-5, not l-4

and then people trickled off and nobody seems to make it go higher than that

[skitter30]

and hte a50 wagon is still gross

[skitter30]

Almost50 (3): BuJaber, Gamma Emerald, FrankJaeger

yes but the fact that i don't townread any of the four of them is not a good sign, whereas i townread literally everyone on the a50 one

[skitter30]

Gamma why are you focusing so much on the 'town doesnt joke about voting tje ic' point from a50; it's one thing he said in RVS and you're talking about it almost to the exclusion of everything else that's happened in this game, and you've voteparked him over it

Like your response to what he did feels overblown given that you're not interacting with like any other part of the game really

[skitter30]

I'm kinda getting cold feet on the cj wagon i think

[skitter30]

I don't think u were laser-focused on anything in American presidents like you are here

I also think you made some sort of attempt to sort people. Here indont really see that, but i see you harping on the a50 thing

Can you tall about your reads in a general sense?

[skitter30]

Antihero's posts ping town but Bujaber's posts ping scum

Idk what to do with him

i'm also kinda underwhelmed by this

==

Tbh my preference is still frank as he has yet to satisfactory alleviate the scum concerns on him.
Would not be opposed to CJ vig shot, maybe because I'm not convinced about his alignment (and maybe there is/isn't a vig) but also because I'm kinda interested to know how CJ flips just to figure out the deal with wagon dynamics lol.

i think this is kinda where i am too

VOTE: frank
HURT: cj

==

I went to explain this and then I realized where the split in what I'm seeing and reality is. I forgot OK Nyeo's vote on you in the C9++ wasn't really joking

and ....

like does this affect your read on a50 at all?

[skitter30]

@ofrhz

saying this now because not sure when night will start - i'm going to be v/la sunday night - tuesday night

[skitter30]

like does this affect your read on a50 at all?

Yeah actually, it completely negates the point

right, that's my point - if it negates your point, why am i dragging out of you how this realization affects your read on him?

[skitter30]

because that's been your main read this game and you sort of acknowledged that your point was invalid but than didn't go that extra step to then like explain how that affected your read on him in this game

[skitter30]

like you weren't like 'my point on a50 isn't valid so i now read him as ______ and i'm going to vote tw instead because i think his slot is scummy because _____'

you were like *quotes vex's sky case but don't talk about it at all* *votes sky who isn't even in this game anymore without talking about how you read her at all* *mentions that your point on a50 is invalid but don't explain how that affects how you read him*

like the thought process just seems kinda going-through-the-motions-y, not like something you thought about yourself naturally

[skitter30]

VOTE: Frank
HURT: CJV
HURT: CJV
HURT: CJV

^For emphasis^

I mean, I kinda

insist

this get Vigged tonight as I'm pretty certain this is how he played his scum game with me for most of it.

he actually responded to pressure there when i pushed him tho, that's the thing

like i called him scummy and voted him and he retalitory-OMGUS'd me

[skitter30]

the worst feels underwhelming this game.

kinda agree

[skitter30]

Now this depends on the town assuming this, but given how everyone's been playing,

I have no faith in this town to not go apeshit.

why?

[skitter30]

OK that makes sense wrt vig plan. As for duckling, I'm voting him because he has to actually work to get my suspicion off him. I already said I didn't think anything he'd posted up to now has been good enough to make me reconsider.

why are you considering that slot in the first place .... ?

i asked you this already and you didn't answer ....

[skitter30]

if I were a serial killer here

I'd stab skitter most of the time

unless I was already outed/leashed in which case I'd prolly go for cjv

why?

[skitter30]

Can we just lynch one of CJ and frank, and move onto other stuff the next day? There is no plurality this game. This day is nearly two weeks already....
If Frank/CJ flip town, my bet is on at least one scum in the lurkers/non-voters HWS, GE, BuJ

before i forget, gamma looks worse on a red frank flip

[skitter30]

VOTE: Frank

at work atm, will post later, also have essay due tonight
all ive written is “MacBeth was written by Shakespear”

(shakespeare has an 'e' at the end of it btw

for humorous mispellings of the name shakespeare, please see the 'thursday next' series of books by jasper fforde)

[skitter30]

if I were a serial killer here

I'd stab skitter most of the time

unless I was already outed/leashed in which case I'd prolly go for cjv

why?

[skitter30]

if I were a serial killer

here

I'd stab skitter most of the time

unless I was already outed/leashed in which case I'd prolly go for cjv

why?

answered herein
That'd more quickly enable me to play a lazy friendly sk game lmao

this is a tangent ;p

Oh i thought u were trying to say something about ur read on me; didnt realize it was a tangent

On a related note, whats ur read on me?

[skitter30]

I think it's time for frank to claim

^^^^^

[skitter30]

Skitter also for here dialogue with ruru; I think scum would have dropped it sooner but she was pedantic in trying to explain the nature of her ruru read. I think 352 is townie also. I think scum are more likely to read ruru's post there about vig policy and not give it a second thought. 502 is confusing his responses don't seem to fit the quotes. Wanting to vig a VLA / absent player so early seems odd though. 522 okay these posts are getting difficult to follow as an 'outsider'. Is it important for us to understand it or is it just for ruru's benefit?

Also one thing I don't understand is why is it important for ruru to townread you based on what you would/wouldn't do as scum?

Why aren't you trying to get him to townread based on your content this game instead? There's enough of it.

wrt 502, i was quoting frank's readslist and pulling out bits about particular players, and then naming the player who frank was talking about

wrt 522 i was talking to ruru about it since she brought it up; i wasn't particularly talking ot the universe at large; idk if you want me to explain it more let me know

what are you refferring to wrt the bolded?

I don't have a lot of experience with scum!A50 but I believe he's a bit more emotional, a bit less engaged, and a bit more agressive when casing someone.

scum!ap is less engaged and less convicted and i don't think he's aggressive when casing someone. he doesn't actually *believe* most of what he's saying imo

I could still consider the PL if my TR on him becomes weaker later on because I don't think self votes are good for the game.

this feels wrong; why wouldn't you just lynch him for not townreading him at that point

like if you want to policy him why does your read on him matter?

452 good town list for this point in the game.

it wasn't; those were all incredibly safe reads at that point; that readslist was incredibly underwhelming

Enigma - had something like 7 pagetop related posts out of his first 20 posts. He even votes for vex seemingly only because vex 'stole' his pagetop. The rest of those 20 barely talk about people, more about setup. Just not clear at all how he's reading people if he has any reads. Up to page 20 still not clear where he stabds reads-wise. 536 reads! Okay this is much better than his previous posts but not a difficult post to make as scum. Like it seems to be rather neutral for a reads list. I expect it to be more opinionated.

again, you acknowledged that townies do the pagetop thing so why are you scumreading him for that?

i'm finding it interesting thath people who were in the game and interacted with enigma early on are townreading him but that people who joined later or weren't around at that point aren't

looking back nothing he did feels particularly exceptional but in real-time the timing of his posts just felt very honest and guile-less and i dont' know a good word. like just very reactionary, no agenda, just saying exactly what he thinks

[skitter30]

Btw, now that this game is over ... viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76766
This has kinda been in my mind the whole game, but couldn't say much as ongoing.

Skitter was one of my strongest TRs in that game, I even doc protected her because I thought she would be prime NK target ... alas she was scum
scum!skitter a force to be reckoned with, and was literally universally townread by everyone and won because town trusted her enough to hammer test her in MYLO

So I haven't really commented on skitter so much, that said I am kinda townreading skitter this game, but I don't trust her or my reads on her hahahha
Hence my earlier comment about I don't really know how to read her with confidence

:p

very much want to read that dead thread

i also noted in the scum pt that people were actually going to think that i have a decent scumgame lol; i didn't know that you doc'd me; i very much mourned the fact that all of the prs hard-townread me and that i had to murder all of them so that i wouldn't be mechanically fucked over by lylo, it was very unfortunate; i really wanted to keep you alive because i knew you were the doc from outing ap and thought i could work around your nk targets but i wasn't sure if cardi was tellign the truth about being a cop or not and if she was i needed her dead because otherwise i'd be mechanically poe'd in lylo and before i kill the cop i needed to kill the doc

idk if i can do anything wrt general paranoia but if you want to talk about something specific lmk

[skitter30]

Btw, now that this game is over ... viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76766
This has kinda been in my mind the whole game, but couldn't say much as ongoing.

Skitter was one of my strongest TRs in that game, I even doc protected her because I thought she would be prime NK target ... alas she was scum
scum!skitter a force to be reckoned with, and was literally universally townread by everyone and won because town trusted her enough to hammer test her in MYLO

So I haven't really commented on skitter so much, that said I am kinda townreading skitter this game, but I don't trust her or my reads on her hahahha
Hence my earlier comment about I don't really know how to read her with confidence

This is basically the other post I wanted to make except I'm not townreading her

If my interactions with her have been awkward in this game, not wanting to spew her alignment in the ongoing was why (and she should know that and not scumread me for not engaging her more at the beginning of the game)

I don't feel like she's done anything obviously genuine and her read progression on me is weird

i think i would have just called you obvtown, pocketed you, and shot you at some convenient time as scum tbh

oh right, and I also find this really questionable

I don't find "I would play this game similarly to my last game where I rolled scum against some of the same players here" particularly convincing

if anything scum.skitter probably expects to get lynched this game because of the playerlist and might be more interested in finding early high value mislynches than usual

that's exactly what i would have done here tho as scum

i don't win scumgames by deliberately trying to mislycnh people; i win scumgames by being 'obvtown' and taking myself out
of the lynchpool and making everyone else more lynchable by association, and i do *that* by pocketing enough people so that i'm not really lynchable

i hate pushing mislynches; if you actually read through that game i didn't really have any major scumreads that i pushed; my main scumreads that game were on my partners and then i just kinda coasted for the rest of the game by maintianing townreads and vaguely supporting lynches on the lynchable players

i wouldn't do something risky that i'd be scumread for after the flip; i don't take risks as scum and i don't do things that i know will make me scumread, and i take the path of least resistance whenever possible; i really really hate having arguments when i know that i don't believe in what i'm saying; i feel disingenuous and don't have conviction in it and don't like having arguments that i don't believe in because i feel fake. i don't try to scumread you as scum because you'll fight back and i have like zero interest in picking a fight as scum, especially one that i don't know if i can win and one that will make me look scummy after town!you flips.

i don't purposefully start a thing with someone who thinks they can read me and will call me scummy for not locktowning them; i just avoid the confrontation entirely by locktowning you and moving on

scum!me woudl be very worried about the playerlist for just that reason and would be very very very careful not to rock the boat and to cultivate townreads and to position myself to be townread longterm

i honestly didn't tally up the sheer amount of overlap between these two games till like yesterday irl and i'm not playing, for the most part, around what happened that game (i do think, however, that tw should not scumread me here given that he was reading everything that i wrote in that scum pt)

[skitter30]

Yeh I’m not sure I can manage another dead thread in the same situation again lol. It was agony watching you spew obvtown and be hard townread by every player whilst knowing you were scum.

I also remember you said the same comment about let’s tslk about it when ofrhz mentioned we should revisit skitter townread in ducks game after you won another scum game (I was like yay please do this but no one did). Ahh paranoia. I mean let’s just not hard townread skitter ever again.

yep, i think that the best way to handle general paranoia is to be very very transparent. i dont know if it'll help but i don't know how else to try to resolve that

i thought i was in a pretty good place once massclaim didn't screw me over (i was 1s watcher and was worried someone else had picked it) but there were a few hiccups that worried me, including gerrymandering ending with like half of the alive players having been in that game

[skitter30]

sky I think the inactivity is not really indicative of anything, but I don't really know what to make of their content yet

last time you mentioned sky before you voted her

[skitter30]

Actually how about this

VOTE: Skygazer
HURT: Frank

ellitell and frank needs to die but sky is more likely to be bp I think

Who are you calling ellitell on
If it's mwnn then you may have something since last time someone call that on him they were right

a50 what are your thoughts on sky ellitelling

Ok how did sky ellitell

Nvm
I can get behind the analysis presented rn

@GE

the slots that I'm most interested in right now (hws/sky/cjv) are all afk

well I guess I'm interested in this: how are you reading frank/hws/sky/antihero/enigma?

I'm actually pretty interested in your answer here

Frank I'm not sure on, I don't really get the hate
hws kinda feels like something is amiss
sky

I think the inactivity is not really indicative of anything

, but I don't really know what to make of their content yet
antihero I haven't seen a reason to be skeptical of yet
Enigma has felt lurky, I'd forgotten h was in the game until someone else mentioned him and he seems to have slipped back away.

your conclusion after ruru made her case is that 'i think the inactiviy is not really indicative of anything'

and then didn't mention the slot until you voted her after she repped out

[skitter30]

why is this day still going?

i haven't read anything since like sunday but i guess i'll read through now

[skitter30]

definitely ellitell skitter tbh
her reaction to my rep in scumlean is also like 5% more town!skitter though I put less stock in that

ellitell is a very very very valid way of reading me; i often have to force myself to post as scum and it's not an entirely easy process and i tend to avoid scumgames if at all possible and just post less there

also i think you should be able to tell the difference between my town and scumgames given that you were reading that scum pt and i won't believe a scumread on me from you tbh

[skitter30]

Looking for a replacement for FrankJaeger. The deadline will be paused in the meantime, and when a replacement is found, there will be 48 hours until the end of day.

he did post elsewhere on friday and sunday but not a lot; idk what that means wrt his alignment

[skitter30]

2- What if Frank is BP and Gamma is his P and is going to argue Frank is alive on D2 because there is no Vig, or is using him to out the Vig if existent?

I guess I can stop here for now. The point isn't arguing Frank's alignment. It's trying to figure out why Town!Gamma would come up with the suggestion as I don't see the benefit, so I'll just wait for him to show up and explain what he thought.

if frank is scum gamma is a very viable partner imo

especially since instead of voting for frank with like three days left (before the extentinons of course) with like all the townie people on the wagon, he opted to vote for 'sky' - this was after tw had repped in

[skitter30]

ohey my current Pokemon go buddy is a larvitar. I wonder if I should name it in your honour.

this reminds me quite a bit of american presidents mafia

[skitter30]

Start of page 6, going to sleep

As for now my biggest SR would be prob skitter, but tbh I’m not even sure how confident should I be in the logic cuz I’ve never SR anyone else for that before

In short, some of her posts made me feel that she cares a lot about her tone and about the way other people see her. There are stuff which indicate that she put in effort to make her posts “tonally good” or “tonally read in only one way”, which is generally more scum than town motivated.
There’ll be a bit more about that in the catchup

Not placing my vote now, cuz it’s like… page 6, but this is where my vote would be if there was no more content besides that

i will admit to rewriting posts to get them to sound the way i want sometimes

i do that as both alignments tho

[skitter30]

Skitter writing that "theorizing about the setup is useless", while placing such attention on it later is noted.
Considering her motivation and attention to detail in her posts later, I think it’s kinda unlikely that she didn’t bother considering the setup when someone already wrote their theories about it

The first post doesn't feel sincere. Possibly mimicking another, more experienced player (not necessarily AI) or aiming for some sort of lamist wifom
(Sort of: “People sometimes say that talking about mechanics is LAMIST/useless/scum motivated, so I’ll do the opposite. That should be a more townie move).
That's not a strong read though

i don't think theorizing about the setup day1 is in any way useful tbh

i have no way of knowing at this point what scum may or may not have picked and i dn't really think theorizing will give me more info or knowledge

i know what i would have picked (daytalk), but that's all i know

i sometimes mimic writing style when i want to mock people or to indicate that i think their point is stupid; i don't think i've ever done it to make my posts sound townier

[skitter30]

In short, some of her posts made me feel that she cares a lot about her tone and about the way other people see her. There are stuff which indicate that she put in effort to make her posts “tonally good” or “tonally read in only one way”, which is generally more scum than town motivated.

can you throw me some quotes which support this? i'm not totally convinced i see it coming from scum before it comes from town but would be keen to get in behind your eyes here

setup stuff is 5% interesting in this particular setup
for example scum taking no powers whatsoever is slightly beneficial for scum
as scum depending on who my partner was (if they were someone i prolly wouldn't jam super well with for example) i'd probably take recruit traitor and nothing else
if they were someone i have really good synergy w and wanna play scum with i'd take daytalk and nothing else


but ya there's a billion different opinions on which powers to take/not take in this setup so whatever

back to getting red flips

bolded - this also feels off tonally

[skitter30]

i'll be real, i can't even remember who you replaced rn

i'll be real, i can't even remember who you replaced rn

f-sth, I don't remember his name
but he's the main wagon rn, so there should be a lot of reads him

pretty sure not groupscum together

[skitter30]

fe, the beginning of that one was most prob heavily worked on.
It feels more like a story than random/spontaneous thoughts
You can even tell the tone clearly in the first sentences, which is REALLY rare in posts that weren’t tonally worked on
Possible cautious/try-hard scum
I might be a bit too tunnely here, cuz tbh I don’t think she did anything extremely bad, but I don’t really trust that atm

ugh P.Edit: Now that I'm reading it, she did write that her read was mostly gut. It would kinda make sense for her to work on the case more than usually, cuz she would have been forcing herself to write it anyways
the analysis should be good, but it's not as ai anymore -_- kinda missed that before

it was a gut read

i don't always know how to artciulate gut reads, so i kinda force myself to post until i figure out what i'm trying to say, just kinda searching for the right words that match waht i'm seeing

and sometimes it takes me a few times to figure out how to get my point across so i rewrite it till i figure it out

[skitter30]

ejji's posting is otherwise kinda townish though

Whatever

gamma is probably town

kinda agree with you on ejji

not sure i want to lynch him today anymore

dont' really see anything to townread gamma for tbh

he feels very ... *underwhelming*

[skitter30]

And hey, can someone explain what’s going on with the avatar change conversation? How did sky change her avatar?

she said she wasn't going to post that night, but watch avatar instead

and a few hours later her avatar had the words 'i'm town' in it

[skitter30]

This game's awful

How about you interact with other slots?

I feel like this probably doesn't come from scum

why not ... ?

i think i want to vote him actually tbh

VOTE: gamma

[skitter30]

you're asking "why not" so it's unlikely he did it to get townread

I don't think most people would townread that post

but scum really enjoy a gamestate where everyone is tilted and not gamesolving

it's like an nai post to me; it feels like fluff kinda

also doesn't gamma have a lynchbaity meta? (I haven't read it, sheeping other people on this)

yeah he does

see american presidents mafia; he was the day1 mislynch; i wasn't townreading him but i was vehemently against it for wagonomics reasons and pointed out he was the icky cw to scum like six billion times. i also kinda gut townread him there

here i just kinda like ... don't

like he feels underwhelming, or empty kinda. or like focusing on the wrong thign if that makes sense? he feels completely out of it and mechanical almost. like i don't understand his thought processes; it feels like he's going through the motions and just posting because he has to. he isn't really responding to people who are asking him things, or to people who are scumreading him

there he at least got kinda outraged that people were scumreading him despite the effort he was putting in

it was ate-y but it felt kinda real. here he doesn't. it just feels kinda lifeless

[skitter30]

well, more like he couldn't remember who he replaced; i think he'd know who replaced his partner

it doesn't feel faked to me, idk if i can explain that better

[skitter30]

I dont want to lynch town!duckling today even though im incredibly underwhelmed by the slot- like he might be scum but i want to give him a day

Frank was awful but ejji isnt

Cj's slot is empty again

I have no strong opinion on hws; he just kinda is

Bujaber isnt really actively scummy imo but i dont really townread them

And i think i townread everyone else unless im forgettjng someone

I dont really know where to vote right now

I woukd prob vote duckling over a no-lynch tho

[skitter30]

do you think hws is viggable? maybe lynch ceejay vig hws

unless you think we have enough time before ceejay replaces that we should be using that time

i'm compeletely ambivalent on hws; i'm not going oiut of my way to get him lynched but i won't complain at this point; i have no problem with him getting vigged either

i would vote him at deadline

I feel like I always reach a point where I either SR gamma or are too comfortable with his lynch. like I'm zoned out and didn't realise I hadn't posted for so long but this feels a little lynchmobby.

someone I townread tell me what to do pls

why are all of your posts scumpinging me ...?

why does a gamma wagon feel lynchmobby? there's only two votes on him iirc

[skitter30]

i mean, i think everyone would do this no?

he was saying i was scummy for it so i was saying that i do it as both alignments

back to getting red flips


bolded - this also feels off tonally


how so?

because i don't see him trying to get red flips

well, more like he couldn't remember who he replaced; i think he'd know who replaced his partner

it doesn't feel faked to me, idk if i can explain that better

Yeah this towntell always feels wrong to me. It comes up quite often though and most of the time people are right when they assume it but it still is weird to me because I think it's one of the easiest things to fake. Scum don't even have to fake it sometimes if they genuinenly forgot but didn't bother to check.

idk i think it's something scum would be hyper-aware about tbh

==

i have no interest in lynching enigma today; i dont' understand the scumreads on him tbh

==

o hey I could see myself lynching Enigma here. ejji is town unless he's really good at scum tbh

> 857
> 1318
:thnikogng:

just been a while since I like... had a feeling about enigma tbh

VOTE: the worst

==

everyone should vote where they want to lynch

uh this is a good idea at the start of a day, not at the end of a two-week+ day when people are starting to become apathetic because of the length

[skitter30]

i think i would compromise on any of {bujaber, hws, gamma, cj-slot} at this point

[skitter30]

um not sure what 'radioactive wagon for scum' means so idk

he's just so nice and awesome and damn good at town and we mindmeld as tvt that i don't really want to lynch him and be wrong especially not day1

[skitter30]

Do tell

[skitter30]

Uhhhh .....

[skitter30]

um not sure what 'radioactive wagon for scum' means so idk

he's just so nice and awesome and damn good at town and we mindmeld as tvt that i don't really want to lynch him and be wrong especially not day1

this is really wolfy actually

I said something very similar to this in american presidents mafia so youre going to have to explain why this is wolfy here

[skitter30]

anyway got some good news
we're not lynching me today and everyone voting me needs to find a better wagon.

ejji and gamma probably bad lynches also

Am i supposed to be reading this *that* way

(Yes you shoukd know *exactly* what im referring to here)

[skitter30]

I mean, there you told me you were deliberately not crumbing to me but scumread you for not tpr-reading you after you softed and said in the scum pt that you wefe deliberately softing to me soo ...

[skitter30]

*scumread me

[skitter30]

I said something very similar to this in american presidents mafia so youre going to have to explain why this is wolfy here

tone tbh
I don't remember what you said in American presidents mafia along these lines, ducky memory is short

Im having trouble finding it on my phone but ill look for it later when im at a computer

[skitter30]

Hello!

I think this is the optimal vig shot

HURT: not mafia

[skitter30]

I feel like I always reach a point where I either SR gamma or are too comfortable with his lynch. like I'm zoned out and didn't realise I hadn't posted for so long but this feels a little lynchmobby.

someone I townread tell me what to do pls

why are all of your posts scumpinging me ...?

why does a gamma wagon feel lynchmobby? there's only two votes on him iirc