Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: Ari

Welcome. Your predecessor played her scum meta, how do you plead?

Welp! You got me! XD

GG this was fun!

[Aristophanes]

That's a good point. Hopefully people are onto it enough to unwagon mala and jump on someone more decent. *coughAricough*

Hello yes this is me!

So, we have a lyncher claimed I gather. Is that Mala or Elsa? What was the other one's claim? It seems we have both, yes?

Oh wait you want to jump ONTO me?
I'm flattered
But no, I am def not a better wagon hahaha

[Aristophanes]

So that's 3 claimed 3p...

Oh geez.

Ya Imma need a list or something if possible! I'm not reading 2600 posts

[Aristophanes]

Elsa Jay, you are my hero <3

[Aristophanes]

Dang it Cheeky make up your mind. Menno or Ari?

Oh yeah, hey Ari. Been awhile. Glad to see your doing well.

It sure has! I wasn't sure you were still around!
This is a nice surprise

If anyone else is 3p, claim now or eat rope when run up. I have proven my willingness to work with you. If you don’t prove your willingness to work with me, your claim will be ignored after today.

Why so worried about 3P players?

Claims this game so far-

Elsa: Neutral Doc (Ascetic BP)
Flicker: Priest
Toog: Lightning Rod
Chickadee: Day flavor cop (who says Robin is River/Simon)
Jingle: Mason

Mala: Lyncher who flavor target is "Mal"

I'm keeping this as a reminder for later.

I need this in my Iso.
Funny, I figured my flavour would be River/Simon. I am especially intrigued now!
Also, we only have 1 result from Chicka despite it being D2? Why is that?
Elsa, you're Ascetic

AND

BP??? That's interesting.

You guys realize that Malakitty will never be night killed unless we have a town vigilante do it, right? She's scum who works better with Mafia than he does with Town. She also directly opposes our town wincon, so she needs to be lynched at some point for us to even win the game, nothing like Elsa's wincon. She has no positive town utility, like Doctor. She's been extremely weak on activity, and has made no promise to pick it up. Why even entertain keeping her alive?

Should we just mass claim at this point and pick the worst power among us to lynch? We've had 2 ridiculous claims so far, what are we even waiting for at this stage?

(And no, Jaber, I am not interested in voting Menno).

Riiiiight because a Neutral BP Ascetic Doctor isn't hiding

anything

and it totally probably not an Alliance Doctor or anything like that
Also Mala will be dealt with at some point. Low priority for now I think.
Also also, NO! We are not massclaiming and killing "useless powers!" Holy shit that suggestion is bad and scummy!!!
You get a

BIG FAT FOS

for this shit XD

OMG Chara is here!!! <3

Mala living encourages scum to shoot in the PoE pool because none of our claims make sense as mal and killing two people not of their faction is better than one. Also, if we get super ahead we can just lynch mal to give her the mutual win towards the endgame.

Also lyncher for mal is totally scarlet, not the operative.

why would we ever lynch Mal on purpose just to give Mala her win?
like i'm all for fun and fair play but playing to one's wincon is a thing. there is never a time i'm wasting a mislynch to get a 3p their win, unless we have mod-confirmed scum numbers and a guilty on the last scum.

and thinking that scum would purposely shoot in our PoE instead of in players they can't mislynch just for a bonus kill on a 3p that isn't a threat to them is just a really weird way to think abouy the nightkill.

So Much This!
Thank you for being a reasonable voice! =D
Just one of many reasons why I love ya!


Okay, one page done!
You guys are good at packing in content! I've gotten so used to fluffy games, Imma have to actually, like, play in this one! XD

[Aristophanes]

your claimed single BP. :>

Shhhh....

Anyway, I'd also rather we still try and find killing scum then anti-town 3p like Mala. And we have many more options, like perhaps Ari if he doesn't feel like catching up. We also got other less suspicious slots that could use some investigating.

Ari would be my preference too, but i want to give him some time to do some work here if he's town.

Wow guys, thanks for the warm welcome! XD

Yeah
I think not just pressuring Ari might be for the best if he is town

At least this guy gets me! <3

Jingle reads really weirdly thus far and while I can't put my finger on what, I know it's off in some way. I'm gonna keep an eye in that direction!

Is anyone else getting the feeling that having specifically me (the guy who wants 3rd parties to win all games with 3rd parties) might be messing up the balance of this game a little?

Uggh ew. Like, I am a huge propogator of 3p wins and always hope for 3p roles because I love them despite their rarity. But like, honestly why are we so focused on 3p instead of groupscum (which there obv is because of the traitor flip). Jingle Y U fee so weird!? This can't be off vibes because Masons because I haven't read enough to get a mason read on you! I just, bleh. Your posts sound so wrong.

At work, it's a busy busy day. Just checking in to say I'm ok with postponing the Mala lynch, but Mala doesn't live long. I alos don't want other 3p to claim if there are any. It just narrows the pool for scum.

Also if anyone else is BP, please stop claiming it. BP shots should be trying to draw shots, not claiming it so people don't wast shots (specifically scum).

I realize some of us have different priorities, but for the love of god, stop climing BP so early.

I agree that BPs need to stop claiming because WTF, but I also want to note that the more 3p who claim the narrower our pool is for hitting scum too. While I'm not advocating for more 3p plaims, I don't think it hurts us.

At work, it's a busy busy day. Just checking in to say I'm ok with postponing the Mala lynch, but Mala doesn't live long. I alos don't want other 3p to claim if there are any.

It just narrows the pool of scum.

Also if anyone else is BP, please stop claiming it. BP shots should be trying to draw shots, not claiming it so people don't wast shots (specifically scum).

I realize some of us have different priorities, but for the love of god, stop climing BP so early.

FTFY.

Agree on the no point. Optimal play for mala was to claim something powerful for town that makes sense as mal in order to draw the nightkill.

Og, Jingle had the same point. Hmm...maybe we

can

get along



Ohey done with 106 Good work guys!

[Aristophanes]

lol.

I feel like this post raises nsg's scum equity

lol.

[Aristophanes]

If you want my top 5 group-scum read now that Mala is out, from highest to lowest:


1: Menno (just didn't like Sky's stuff)
2: Jaber
3: Ari
4: NDS
5: Toog (may be fucking with Investigators)

I guess I'll take the centre spot. Wtf did NSG do before I got here!? I thought she was the queen of Obvtowning! XD

If necessary, I can give the list of players who I believe mechanically should not be the lynch for today. It's specifically subjective reads that I'm avoiding giving out right now.

Actually, there's no reason for me not to, so I'm just gonna do that.

Jingle: I'm Wash. No one wants to kill the guy with the little plastic dinosaurs. That would literally be the saddest part of the whole game.
EJ: Townsiding 3P Doc. Nuff Said.
Mala:
Chick: Potential for townclears high. Potential for guilties higher.
NR: I'll admit, there is still some doubt in my mind that the claimed videos mean she's Simon/River. If there is a convincing reason down the line that she is neither she should be turbolynched because the only other thing I see those videos possibly alluding to is that she's HUNTING Simon/River. Still, potential clear buys her time before she needs to be sorted.
Toog: Use of power last night.

Assuming one of those town'clears' is right, that means we have at least 3 scum in the remaining 10 players. Based on the strength of my reads at the moment, I feel very confident in our ability to lynch scum out of those ten players. If any more 3rd parties would like to come forward and claim, it increases those odds further.

Ooooooh shit you're Walsh!? Well dan. That makes the Mason claim fucking really believable. GDI! Now I have to townread you
Nico Robin is, well concerning actually with the way you phrase this :S
Why is Lightning Rod a good clear for Toog!? That seems misguided.

@Toogaloo
Are you a BP of sorts?

I know this goes against my previous statements on the matter but this one actually makes a huge difference okay!

Out of curiosity, is this Mathblade's VoteCounter at work? This is the first time I've seen it in action!

Jingle don't you think RR is cleared based on revealing part of his role PM?

Reasonably Rational is here!? This keeps getting better!
What did they release? It's not in the claims post.

Ari when can we expect some posts from you? Anything we can help you with like links to main events etc?

Have I done enough? XD
I'll probably note things in Iso read-backs but I am not reading the majority of this so if there's stuff I'm missing please point it out

2 and a half hours have past... The Elsa is bored ATM.

She will now post a picture of her kid self to marvel in her own glory.

Please enjoy the adorableness as I plan on who to murder next with my voting prowess.

D'aww
Murder away! XD

[Aristophanes]

I messed up my tags, please excuse the extra post...

@Toogaloo
Are you a BP of sorts?

I know this goes against my previous statements on the matter but this one actually makes a huge difference okay!

[Aristophanes]

Ari I suggest skimming RR's Iso as it will take a few posts to get it (bottom third of ISO). To sum it up:

RR came into today saying they thought they caught a scumslip Day 1 when they were interacting with Flicker around Flicker's priest claim.
They said the scumslip was that Flicker missed a bit of flavour before her role that town role PMs should have. I don't believe this is true as Flicker mentioned something that she would've only known if she had that said bit of flavour in her role.
RR revealed their bit of towny flavour from their role PM. Which made it sound very much like they are the character Inara.

I just learned what a Priest role does after 3 years of playing mafia :O
Thanks MS Wiki! XD

Ohh okay, I'll give that a read!
Inb4 Priest is Book tho, that seems reasonably rational!

[Aristophanes]

They have like 200 posts....

I'll just take your word on the claim stuff

[Aristophanes]

Loool. What does your role PM say just before you are told your role?

Is this a rolefish or is there a good reason?

I don't know my flavour other than the ship I am part of the crew of.

[Aristophanes]

Well if you weren't reading RR's slip I thought I'd ask as it could pseudo confirm you as town. It's hard to know if you had read it or not although if you are scum you would have a team tell you to say something along those lines.

Was worth a shot.

Can confirm that I do not have a team and that I an literally too lazy to read RR's shit.

Serenity is my craft if it really matters, but I assume you assumed that already XD

[Aristophanes]

hm

ct might be town

Uggh why is everyone a 2 letter acronym nowadays!?

Cheeky. Just say Cheeky.
I had to look op who tf CT and NR meant because shortening the two are new XD

[Aristophanes]

As if people read the whole OP XD

I mean, I always do by the end of the game, but rarely by this point! It's how I got modkilled in a newbie game once

[Aristophanes]

It's ok Elsa you're the cutest dumbo <3

Can confirm

[Aristophanes]

Ari NSG tunneled flicker pretty hard all day 1 and she lurked out today to be replaced after flicker was looking increasingly accepted as town. Usually activity is NAI but NSG, as you put it, can obvtown pretty well. She hadn't and she then emulated her scum meta by lurking. I don't want to accuse her of cheating but you have to admit it looks pretty bad.

Would like to hear more about your Toog fos. Are you familiar with him as a player? Your stances on 3p discussion seems a little contradictory.

I am not against 3p roles and have asked the Mod some things which make them a lesser threat. I do, however, know they are technically not towny in their wincons and must be wary of them. As for Toog, I believe I have modded but not played in a game with them. My FOS is due to their focus on 3p roles rather than finding groupscum. 3p roles are a minimal threat this game. Their insistance that 3p claims need to die is very interesting.

Your focus on 3p roles was what made me feel off about you too, but that has been delt with so I am fine here now.

It's ok Elsa you're the cutest dumbo <3

Can confirm

This doesn't answer my question or make me feel powerful.

I feel abused. You wouldn't do this to Jingle, Thor, or RR... Why must I be treated this way?

I totally would tho...especially to Thor, probably to Jingle, and maybe to RR. Literally I would so this to those players almost at any chance tbh! Because I like them and enjoy some ribbing No offenses were intended!

For this abuse, I demand cookies and affection as retribution. Repent for your sins of Elsa abuse.

[Aristophanes]

Ari's posts are weird.

Jingle said we shouldn't lynch 3p BEFORE 2641. Ari had to read 2644 to realize it?

I don't folow. Where are you seeing the oddity here?

[Aristophanes]

I honestly think I need sleep because I read ari's second to last post from the bottom up and my computer froze on the gif right before the teeth showed and the two chocolate chips looks like nicely placed choco boobs

;-;

[Aristophanes]

Lightning Rods are an interesting, underused role IMO. I'm actually curious too if Elsa used their Doc last night. This could explain how Toog lived through the NK. I think using it n1 is foolish though and there's no way any Mod gives an unlimited Lightning Rod, so the use of a shot off the bat is really weird suboptimal play at best, scum who decided not to make a kill an instead draw all night actions at worst.

I honestly don't think I've ever seen a scum lightning rod but that doesn't mean it's not the case here!

[Aristophanes]

Oh God....
You cleared that post with A50 first right Toog?

Also Happy Scumday!
Also also Congrats Thor and Cheeky!! =D

[Aristophanes]

Also also Congrats Thor and Cheeky!! =D

Lol just to clarify I wish I was marrying Thor he's the best superhero and all but alas I'm marrying a lovely mere mortal. Thanks!

My phrasing sometimes is just shit XD

Congrats to both of you and your respective mere mortals!
Also, Thor is probably the third best Avenger. Well...that's tough to say. He had by far the best individual movies in the series but Cap is simply the best and I have a soft spot for Hulk. They did bring in the Guardians tho and like, they are pretty awesome! But do they count as avengers?? Hmm... I need to think about this.
Oh Shit and then there's Dr. Strange and his amazingness! He almost Rivals Cap for first spot!
GDI!

[Aristophanes]

Right! Of course! No derailing the game Ari! XD
Though yeah, the "Cap is a Nazi" shit is dumb and bad lol

Uhh...so I am gonna look at game stuff I guess.

BuJaber had something for me so Imma go read that in more detail.

[Aristophanes]

@Ari - sorry I'm on the phone (like 99% of my posts are phone posts usually) .. so I will split up my response in multiple posts so I don't f up the quoting.

Literally, our best case scenario is lynching one of the HoB and having the other get shot overnight. This reduces the odds that anyone of the other faction dies at night (which they're likely to be happy with), so the other scumteam wants this as well. Therefore, we should be lynching not Mala, because by virtue of the claim, she is almost certainly not HoB. Additionally, if any other 3rd parties come out of the woodwork right now, it narrows down our chances of hitting them and aims our lynch at groupscum. Groupscum is the real threat here. Anyone who can win with us is secondary at worst and never needs to be considered at best.

In this post (post 2639) Jingle states clearly why we should not lynch 3p, why more 3p claims are good for us, and why it's +EV for town to shoot outside of the claimers pretty much.

I'm not sure what HoB is short for but otherwise I agree with this post of Jingle's

Is anyone else getting the feeling that having specifically me (the guy who wants 3rd parties to win all games with 3rd parties) might be messing up the balance of this game a little?

You had an issue with this post of hers, saying that it's off because she's so focused on 3p. This post came after 2639, meaning if you read this one you read 2639.

They are still focusing on 3Ps even if it's not to get them killed. 3Ps are not our focus.

Og, Jingle had the same point. Hmm...maybe we can get along

Only at this point, when you quoted 2646, did you supposedly realize that you are rehashing her idea.

Your post is therefore weird because it implies your point was original. It also shows you sort of shading Jingle then realizing she is stating the same point you are, but if you were reading the posts in the correct order you would have known this anyway.

I mean, I wrote it and then continued reading. I did not read ahead so even if it was the next post, I didn't see it until i reacted to it. My thought was my own, even if it had been stated previously.

[Aristophanes]

I'm not sure what HoB is short for but otherwise I agree with this post of Jingle's

HoB is short for Hands of Blue. They're confirmed to be a 2 man scum team with a traitor via the traitors flip.

Flavorwise, the traitor was a member of the Alliance and the Hands of Blue are the wetwork team of Blue Sun, which means the Alliance and Blue Sun are working together this game and any additional scumteams are flavored around other factions. Like the Reavers or Niska's crew.

Ooooooh! No Shit! =D
A50 is doing great work then! I Love it!!!

Okay so ya, with HoB and possible other factions there's no way we should be worried about 3P roles. f they can win without harming us fine. If they claim I'm not gonna jump on them at all!

We then have 2 claimed 3P roles, a flipped traitor, 2 HoB scum, possibly Reavers and Niska, and who knows what else.
That's a minimum 5/17 antitown with a likely promise of 2-4 more right? We probably only have 9 town/Serenity members, which I just checked and is exactly the number of crew there were! Part of this theory is because of how the Wincons are written. There is no majority win for scum, because town is starting with just over half the players! It actually makes sense for us to hep 3P roles because it is a harmless way of getting rid of them, since their wincons are not game ending!

This setup is fascinating!

[Aristophanes]

@)Humble request to Almost: if Robin doesnt post game-relevant content in say 24 hours, I feel a replacement is necessary considering all the prod dodges with no real content from the slot.

Or we can just flash wagon the slot and be done with it all together. We've been pussy footing around all day, had plenty of "shady" players in sights, and for whatever reason no one cares to actually seal the deal on anything.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NicoRobin

Let's go. Kill it with Fire and Brimstone. Charge! All aboard who's comin' aboard. They can take away our lives, but they can never take away our freedom. Rock, sometime when the team is up against it and the breaks are beating the boys, tell them to go out there with all they've got and win just one for the Gipper.

Hoozah.

Opportunistic much?

[Aristophanes]

Superman in the movies sucks. Clark Kent is literally the Model Paragon in Fiction that inspired basically everyone in-universe to be a better person when his character isnt butchered to become Hitler.

Don't diss the Supes.

PS: Toog, you're on thin ice already with how youve acted since day one. Don't do something stupid.

You quickhammered once, and while it was a traitor, that shit isn't forgotten.

Oh?
Yeah...

VOTE: Toogaloo
This feels right.

[Aristophanes]

Opportunistic much?

Absotivley.

At least you're honest!

I'd also like NR to be replaced

Not sure how I feel about Ari's posting so far. I may just be primed to dislike him because I find his avatar extremely irritating, though.

Yeah, I know. I'll be back to Classic Ari Avi soon!

Also, I am not voting to remove Nico. If they get prodded out of the game, that's fine. But I worked hard to get them back into good status in MS and I'm not going to work against that, actively or passively!
Nico, please do something <3

[Aristophanes]

Good luck with that wagon bro.

Thanks!

I sense I'm going to need it XD

[Aristophanes]

Jingle, you and Gamma are Masons, correct? You two are probably my highest town reads at the moment, I need to check my sanity though.

No comment.

mhm, mhm... /wink

Toogaloo

Just fucking...

Holy cow man, calling out Masons is so antitown!
I can't even!!!

[Aristophanes]

If I actually get to L-1 and me doing so prevents the game from stalling, I totally would.

I feel obligated to point out that this only applies to this day phase (the phase in which I claimed I would hammer anything at L-1). I'd rather not risk assumptions otherwise since I feel like Elsa is being obtuse and antagonistic here.

This I enjoyed though

Please, if you do get to L-1 and plan to hammer, don't quickhammer in case we need to talk or change our minds, okay?

[Aristophanes]

Too many pages. Not reading. Somebody summarize this for me and tell me who I should sheep.

Hey! I only got here about pages ago and some summary was put together for me including claims list and whatnot. Might be a good, shorter read if you're interested

[Aristophanes]

Nah I can do that, let's see what's there

[Aristophanes]

My longass catchup posts are on page 107.

Claims this game so far-

Elsa: Neutral Doc (Ascetic BP)
Flicker: Priest
Toog: Lightning Rod
Chickadee: Day flavor cop (who says Robin is River/Simon)
Jingle: Mason

Mala: Lyncher who flavor target is "Mal"

I'm keeping this as a reminder for later.

eliminating anyone not of their faction is what scum want to do. a lyncher on a town target can only ever scumside

Actually, this is untrue.

Mala wants to lynch specifically Mal. (God, that is gonna get annoying fast.)

Outside of that, her next preferred lynch target is: Scum with a nightkill. She actively wants every non Mal town player to stay alive, because the longer that is true, the more likely it is that Mal doesn't get shot. See how that is not scumsiding? Good. I know it's not explicitly townsiding either, but she is definitely not going to scumside because she loses the game if they win before she exits.

Additionally, the spec says that we have exactly 9 town players. That means, given multiple KPN, that we are very quickly going to approach an untenable position unless scum crosskill or cross target. It also means that we can fairly easily determine when it is likely all of the groupscum are dead. If we have more 3rd parties that we can accomodate without having to push them into scum's camp, I'm all for taking advantage of it. If we're at a point in the game where we can give an additional player the win without jeopardizing our own chances, I'm all for it.

To counter Toog's claim that lynching Mala is confirmably lynching two non town on what is effectively D1, that is true enough. But, more importantly, lynching Mala is not lynching group scum. It also doesn't decrease the KPN. And, and this is by far the most important part: We don't have to lynch Mala to win. We're getting damn close to a PoE here off of claims. If we can narrow down scum and just lynch down the line, we don't ever have to lynch Mala to win. If Reynolds flips, we don't have to lynch Mala to win. We DO have to lynch the group scum to win, unless we get super lucky on crosskills. They are a bigger threat, therefore we prioritize dealing with them. We should definitely be aiming to lynch group scum.

As far as scum wanting to take out more bodies? Yeah, that's still definitely a thing. Mala actively wants to lynch scum. They will shoot town, town being shot is how she loses. Therefore, Mala is a threat to scum. Removing threats is how scum wins. As scum, you don't leave a serial killer alive because he might shoot town. You kill the serial killer because he might shoot you. Chickadee is obviously the bigger threat, but she's also obviously a better Doc target. Scum can't afford to miss kills when we have this many probtown. EJ is a decent choice for a scumkill just so he can't protect anymore, but the bp screws all kinds of hell with that logic. Objectively, the best kills here are in obvtown like me, power roles with the possibility of confirming town, like Chick, and people who represent multiple votes that want to lynch scum, like our dear unidentified Captain. ANY chance that scum will shoot for the last (and incidentally might hit other scum) is worth saving.

And, finally: Mala can explicitly win with town given her Role. She cannot be a game ending Lyncher (the reason not to leave Lynchers alive under normal circumstances is to prevent them from screwing the town by being an exclusive wincon lyncher).

Because the dots are fairly easy to connect from there, we do not have a serial killer in this game. The serial killer wincon is incompatible with the rules.

(I must have hard skimmed this because I had some of the same revelations about a page ago and just realized I reiterated a few things lol)

I'm not sure what HoB is short for but otherwise I agree with this post of Jingle's

HoB is short for Hands of Blue. They're confirmed to be a 2 man scum team with a traitor via the traitors flip.

Flavorwise, the traitor was a member of the Alliance and the Hands of Blue are the wetwork team of Blue Sun, which means the Alliance and Blue Sun are working together this game and any additional scumteams are flavored around other factions. Like the Reavers or Niska's crew.

Ooooooh! No Shit! =D
A50 is doing great work then! I Love it!!!

Okay so ya, with HoB and possible other factions there's no way we should be worried about 3P roles. f they can win without harming us fine. If they claim I'm not gonna jump on them at all!

We then have 2 claimed 3P roles, a flipped traitor, 2 HoB scum, possibly Reavers and Niska, and who knows what else.
That's a minimum 5/17 antitown with a likely promise of 2-4 more right? We probably only have 9 town/Serenity members, which I just checked and is exactly the number of crew there were! Part of this theory is because of how the Wincons are written. There is no majority win for scum, because town is starting with just over half the players! It actually makes sense for us to hep 3P roles because it is a harmless way of getting rid of them, since their wincons are not game ending!

This setup is fascinating!

(This is the post where I reiterated some things...)

The rest is where Nico replacement train started and Toog looked scummier than they already did. That's only 2 pages and I recommend at least trying to read that much

[Aristophanes]

Crap. Now I need to read some ISOs, cause stuff isn't adding up. Need to double check, but I think I spotted a thing.

Curse you Ari for making me actually work on this! If I'm right, Jingle is not town.

Ooooo! You've got my attention piqued =D

I am going to bed, but I look forward to whatever you find

[Aristophanes]

Does anybody know what "Overkill" means? Was it explained in the sign up thread or has anybody thought to ask?

It is merely the name of this series of games. A50 intends an Overkill 2, and probably many others

[Aristophanes]

I mean, I don't think it has any significance past that.

[Aristophanes]

Wtf is a chaotic neutral

DnD (and I assume other RPG) alignment. It works out hilariously though in this game with all the Neutral claims

[Aristophanes]

Lightning Rods basically always have modifiers. Did they claim unlimited?

[Aristophanes]

I'm pretty sure he's a Lightning Rod. I don't think it's a town one.

[Aristophanes]

I'm pretty sure he's a Lightning Rod. I don't think it's a town one.

I'm sorry for the quiet night 1.

You're right though. I'm a Bulletproof Ninja Godfather Lightning Rod. Used my ability Night 1 with very little info to go on, and open claimed it start of the day knowing all my passives woul protect me from unknown roles.

I do have a second use, but it can't be used back to back nights. Maybe they'll get me next time.

I like you

Nonconsecutive 2-shot makes a boat load more sense. My problem now is which crew member that works as, and that's where my second issue lies, the first being overall play.

[Aristophanes]

Plus he is literally Mason hunting.

Yep, sorry, I'll try not to game solve in the future. I should have just posted that in the mafia pt.

When the plan was for me to stay hidden? That’s not gamesolving, that’s unnecessary outing of Town PRs.

OH! That's my tertiary reason for this wagon!
Outing a goddamned Mason Duo!
What the hell!

[Aristophanes]

I think this is a vote based less on read and more on style clash...
UNVOTE:

[Aristophanes]

P.S. - The chances that NR dropped in the "2" crumb and somehow isn't HoB are drastically low. Hands of Blue. Two by two. Since we have our character redacted, there's no way that NR did that as a River crumb. Tails did a good job trying to salvage the slot, and even avoided the Amished tell ... but it's still the most probable slot we have to be scum, and the flip acts as a check on Chick.

For one thing, Amished tells are usually shit

For another, if any member of the crew is going to know their flavour, it's River, the psychic(?) (I'm rewatching the series actually, started about a week before joining the game! haven;t had time to get very far in though). I'm not saying she does, but it kinda makes some sense.

[Aristophanes]

Wait when TF was McMenno a Wagon and why? XD

It seems I missed that!

[Aristophanes]

1st of all, she's a reader.
2nd of all, pretty much the opposite. River has less of an idea whats going on with River than anyone else.

Hmm...

Okay that's extremely valid.
I take it back.

So, Tails then?

[Aristophanes]

Clarifying that TMI'd means that they spewed info they shouldn't have, right?

I'm familiar with the term in other senses but I've never seen it as a Mafia term before.

[Aristophanes]

i wanted to vote chicka but i feel like 10 is town spewy

idk who I am

Important: To avoid flavour gaming; Town players have NOT been given their flavour.

How is this not enough? Am I the only person who had no idea who had been given flavour?

For "not knowing who I am" to be town spewy, you have to know only town don't know who they are right? I didn't see it as a tell because I assumed noone had flavour. Now that we've seen a scum role PM we know that scum know that only town have not been given flavour. I don't know if it implicates chic or not but I think going down the route of a sky/McMenno lynch will show if there's something behind my reasoning plus give us good associatives on Chick, Tor, TW/jingle and other people mentioned in the Sky ISO.

This was my earlier case on McMenno. To which he kindly asked me to cease and desist.

Ooooo this is interesting! I like it!

[Aristophanes]

Shh... I'm retired.

And I'm trying not to effort.

Yeaaaaah

Me too...


in theory :S

[Aristophanes]

hey, I'm also technically retired.

Wait when TF was McMenno a Wagon and why? XD

It seems I missed that!

the wagon on me is obviously a scum fabrication to slander my name and take the head of a virtuous town player.

now that I think about it, my vanity vote is better server VOTE: CheekyTeeky

What great rhetoric!
Makes me want to vote you

[Aristophanes]

I wasn't actually going to.

Chicka why?

[Aristophanes]

If Tails flips town, we can't both die, because only one town will be able to be killed tonight.

If we assume multiple killing roles, why would we think only 1 town could die tn regardless of lynch?

Nico/Thor interactions are intriguing tho!

[Aristophanes]

Wait I'm 3 pages behind wtf XD

[Aristophanes]

2 Death* rather.

It's why I used LR last night. Since a non town was lynched, up to 2 town could be night killed, so it seemed optimal to reduce that to possibly just 1.

Shit that's the towniest thing I've read this whole game! GDI

[Aristophanes]

So I'm way behind again, but Menno/Gazer feels like a distraction from Tails/Nico.

I'm fine voting the latter

[Aristophanes]

Iirc these are the only players who haven't claimed in some way:

Chara, Ari, NDS, Tails, Thor.

Wouldn't it be better to lynch in here rather than in a claim that could be Book? Does Book make sense as a glorified VT or did they have a stronger influence in the series?

Book was huge as the show developed, but it depends how A50 wants to weite and balance the game.

It does somewhat make sense to lynch within this grouping, I agree

[Aristophanes]

I am very okay with a Tails lynch as we go on.

I am slao behind and htis is going to be a perpetual staate for a while.

[Aristophanes]

Most of those were words...

[Aristophanes]

Can we not.

To both of the last posts

Tails, wanna 1v1? hat could be fun

[Aristophanes]

Can I at least know who everyone's second choice for a lynch is if I am lynched?

[Aristophanes]

Like, Imma flip town so I can at least make a case you guys can know is from a town perspective for/against your secondary scumreads

[Aristophanes]

I haven't looked at associative reads with you yet. And I'm very sleepy at the moment, so I can do it sometime, but not right now.

For the purposes of this exercise can we assume I flip town?

[Aristophanes]

I haven't looked at associative reads with you yet. And I'm very sleepy at the moment, so I can do it sometime, but not right now.

For the purposes of this exercise can we assume I flip town?

When I get around to it, I'll look at it both ways if it will make you happy.

You da best <3

[Aristophanes]

Making a newly viable wagon isn't really "condensing" cheeky

[Aristophanes]

Making a newly viable wagon isn't really "condensing" cheeky

I mean maybe people need to discuss a consensus wagon, not just sit on Tails ignoring others' objections until deadline. Ive been pretty clear that we have enough to sort the claims/softs with after a night. So rather than leaving the ??? Slots for scum to bait us with later we may as well clean out a low poster who has high scum equity. Sorry Ari, you seem nice and stuff but you're not giving me much to work with particularly given the performance of your predecessor. If we did lynch you (which I feel is unlikely given people's preference for lynching tails but one can hope) and you flipped green I think that would make Flicker more suspicious as NSG tunnelled that slot pretty hard D1 and she can be right. If you flipped red I wouldn't really know what that means in a multiball but yay one more scum down + a fun day ahead of puzzle piecing.

Could you put a vote down please Ari?

Understood. I have been a little busy but I'll do more D2 for sure! Wait, D3. Whatever tomorrow is. I haven't had the time to adjust to the game and missed claim central so I'm not as engaged as I will be with a fresh day.

My vote will be on Tails but I don't see the point pushing that wagon to the brink atm unless we have nothing else to say. I feel like there has to be more to say so I haven't voted yet.

[Aristophanes]

TORA NO!!!

[Aristophanes]

Hey Tails, I'll help!

VOTE: Ari

Whatcha gonna do now? XD

[Aristophanes]

The big question now is if I selfvote as scum or not?
Do I have the brazen to do it? (Yes, I made brazen into a noun )

Wanna find out?

[Aristophanes]

OOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo

I gotta hear this!

*grabs popcorn*

[Aristophanes]

Ya...can we lynch this now?

[Aristophanes]

Already answered Tails.

Also, still voting you because BG+the clues seen doesn't make sense. *shrug*
-Cerb

True, it'd be Jane but clues say Simon/River ya?

[Aristophanes]

Go read the mods response to our assumption that she could be. He has a nonstandard view of how lightning rods function.

(Hint, asceric makes you immune to them)

-Cerb

Really??

How odd!

[Aristophanes]

Tails is there a little bit of flavour before your role is explained?

Why are you so interested in this tidbit?

[Aristophanes]

Well it doesn't say it

won't

heal multiple attacks. It just Says "heal any attack done to target". That implies multiple protection.

It may imply any sungle attack, as is standard...

[Aristophanes]

Single*

[Aristophanes]

It depends on the understanding of the role!

Ascetic could be effected by LR as roles are pulled towards LR not yargeted by them.
Ascetic could be immune as they roleblock just the target upon themselves.
Ascetic could roleblock fully causing the whole action to fail.

All are reasonable readings of the interaction, and Id rank them in that order for reasonableness.

[Aristophanes]

I will gladly drown in a good cab sauv!

[Aristophanes]

^^^
I had a feeling tbh.
Survivor won't be in this setup because of wincon. How it is written and with a clarification from A50 it is essentially impossible.

[Aristophanes]

Also lol I'm still selfvoting and didn't even get a side glance for it.
UNVOTE:
I may still do this tho. A lynch is needed and I will happily eat it.

I have 3 big scumreads atm:
Tails: honestly this one is more me sheeping the thread and less actual scumread. BG should indeed sort itself out and if it doesn't by D4 it should not be allowed to live on claim alone. Look at play again at that point!

Jingle: they have an unhealthy relationship with role PMs and its really unnerving. They keep trying to pull info about flavour, wording, length, etc from people (mostly Tails) and it's either fishing for another traitor, a certain role they need to find as lyncher, or maybe HoB looking for confirmation on River's whereabouts. I dont know. It is close to the point that I've seen mods step in and say its too close to quoting a PM for their liking and I see no reason they should walk this line, nor why it keeps coming up!

RR: they sound off. A little too aggressive and threatening in their posts. Like this one

Hey Elsa. You're currently voting for a no lynch, effectively, and and no lynches mean the game swings towards scum, which means we have to lynch you out of paranoia sooner.

So you might not want to do that with 24 hours or less left

-Cerb

It is threatening instead of persuading and thats really just yuck!

I would like a little more conversation around these before I die.

[Aristophanes]

Fuck I forgot about the mason claim.
GDI!
They read so badly though!

Also, noted. I've seen it a few times but didn't connect it to a single slot.
Also didn't realize you started all the PM stuff. Why did we do this?

You just made my job harder.

[Aristophanes]

K I'm at L-2 with a day left and intent to self hammer.
Imma be straight as fuck with you guys.

The reason I am okay dying is that I'm a Vengeful. I an one of the crew and I figure it was to be Jane or Mal. The former because he's likely to shoot from the hip when shot "I was aiming for his head!" from the first episode for example. Mal makes sense since he's ever bitter and vengeful after the war.
I originally thought Simon/River but less sure now.

If I flip Jane, Tails is unlikely BG but it should still be tested I guess.
If I am Mal, one less 3p out of the way! Mala would leave and the game continue. I have confirmed this with A50.

I basically am trying to figure out who to shoot to best forward the game now.

[Aristophanes]

Are all your targets on your wagon?

I don't rhink they have to be? Standard vengeful don't have that caveat.

No if there's a chance you're Mal we shouldn't lynch you

VOTE: Tails fuck ego

Why not? Is he more important than the rest of the crew in this game?

[Aristophanes]

I dig it Bu!

Does BG sound like a safeclaim to anyone else?

[Aristophanes]

I thought they were a wild west crew of gorram outlaws!

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: Tails
Thus was probably my venge if killed today. High suspicion slot with a meh claim and suspicious play.

[Aristophanes]

Tails, wanna 1v1? hat could be fun

[Aristophanes]

@Almost50 this game uses NAR correct?

NAR is the main reference, yes. But I wouldn't say I'm following it to the book. If in doubt, better ask me in a PM about how certain roles interact with each other.

^ that's how NAR works
Do the typical interactions and consult it if necessary.

[Aristophanes]

^^^

K jingle is town again (I mean, mason too but w/e)

Jingle who do I shoot if not Tails then?

[Aristophanes]

I thought McMenno claimed Mal.

Just checked and no.

Also town don't have our flavour so...

[Aristophanes]

Gamma seems scummy btw.

Nice pseudo-OMGUS
You forget I am a mason

I haven't bought that your Jingles mason partner for a while now but eh. I don't see the point of your post saying "VC is on the other page yawn" like are you accusing me of busy work?

There's literally perfect flavour for it tho...

[Aristophanes]

18 hours and 2 major wagons.

Kill me, I shoot Tails.
Kill Tails, well, I don't

Up to y'all

[Aristophanes]

That's kind of the point of crumbing. It doesn't make any sense until someone explains it to you.

For example, my mason crumb was that I was randomly determining townreads. My mason (at the time) was randomidget. That's not an easy link to point out unless someone explains it. My not putting Gamma in a reads list later was unfortunate, but it was literally because I couldn't think of a single reason to townread him and putting him anywhere else in the list would leave room for scum to cast doubt on the claim.

Nico's post first says she's going to die early, and then emphasizes 2. Meaning she probably intended to protect the second player slot, theworst. That became me.

I can definitely see how someone would miss that link, but the link does make sense as a bg crumb.

For bonus points, NR's first post references Ace, a character who

Spoiler:

literally dies to save another character's life.

Cooool, I missed that tidbit.

So 2s aren't HoB?

[Aristophanes]

And if I'm Jane, who is Nico/Tails?

[Aristophanes]

Anyway, I'm bored again. Any protectives should go elsewhere tonight.

VOTE: Ari

You were already on me, silly

[Aristophanes]

If we never Lynch you, you are effectively a VT, right?

Correct!

Wow, a lot happened since I've been here.

Why tf is everyone on Tails?

VOTE: Aristophanes
But Ari, don't shoot Tails. Please.

Why not? Who would you rather I shoot?

This was why I asked for that exercise earlier.

[Aristophanes]

Like, Imma flip town so I can at least make a case you guys can know is from a town perspective for/against your secondary scumreads

I haven't looked at associative reads with you yet. And I'm very sleepy at the moment, so I can do it sometime, but not right now.

For the purposes of this exercise can we assume I flip town?

When I get around to it, I'll look at it both ways if it will make you happy.

You da best <3

[Aristophanes]

Well that exercise is less impactful after your claiming.

BuJaber, Nancy Drew, RR all seem like good shots.

I used to have RR in my town pile, but that read is changing, based on how hard they're pushing tails and trying to make some wonky logic fit.

That's why I tried to delay claiming! XD

Why is one of them better than killing the second most suspected slot atm? And if we're both town, that's all the death from town for the cycle as noted by Jingle. So there are limited downsides to this.

[Aristophanes]

@Ari:

Can you confirm if you get a vengekill whichever way you die (lynching, nighkilling, vigs, etc.)? Sorry if you said already and I missed it.

B/c if Jingle's right, then shouldn't we avoid lynching you so you have at least one more flip to work with?

Traditionally vengeful only works when lynched. I was saying he's a VT if he's shot.

Can confirm

[Aristophanes]

It's arguably the best move for town, no?
Guide my venge and lock tonight into a possible no-town-death scenario.

[Aristophanes]

Like wtf is this thought process?

"Let's just get this mislynch to happen so that way they can go shoot someone else who I'm suspicious of, instead of actually getting that person lynched organically in the future and making scum shoot this one unless they want them to get them at a later point"

-Cerb

We said the same thing but with different inflections! How interesting

[Aristophanes]

It's arguably the best move for town, no?
Guide my venge and lock tonight into a possible no-town-death scenario.

No, it's not.

Not at all.

Because if we were to mislynch elsewhere, we still lose only one at most tonight.

-Cerb

Which is probably me now so scum can avoid all this hassle of my shot later down the road.
I likely die either way. Why not be useful?

I mean, we have Doc, Cop-thing, and masons claimed. I'm not being protected. Easy shot for scum to take!

[Aristophanes]

Also I'm deliberately making short posts right now because Ari is at L-1 and people are stupid and will hammer them.

-Cerb

Makes sense!

I will hammer if it gets to deadline but no point atm.

RR, who would you have me shoot?

[Aristophanes]

Well that exercise is less impactful after your claiming.

BuJaber, Nancy Drew, RR all seem like good shots.

I used to have RR in my town pile, but that read is changing, based on how hard they're pushing tails and trying to make some wonky logic fit.

Of these RR is the only one I'd actively consider. Why Nancy?

RR is really all over the place in my reads and I've fluctuated a lot, so even they are unlikely tbh.

[Aristophanes]

BuJaber
CheekyTeeky
Light Ethos
Chara

That's where I would probably put a bullet.

PEdit: If Ari is who I think he is, he has an opportunity to remove one anti town element from the game, and with a bit of intellectual and savvy gameplay, possibly shoot a scum in the process. There's also the possibility he's just plain scum too, but if he's basically useless power unless he's lynched, he should really have the final say in what or how he goes about using his power. Since he's already condoned his Lynch, it's safe to assume he wants this route as well.

Indeed, I'm 100% okay with it as I can see the benefit!

Bu is at the top of this list too?
Cheeky is a possibility, but why is Bu on both your lists Toog and Chicka?

[Aristophanes]

I mean. Outed venge utility is that scum must shoot them, or else they risk being eliminated in a 3p lylo lynch, instead of winning the game. I don't see the benefit of MAYBE making our vigs cops as worth throwing away a day, functionally.

Especially given that N1 was lightning rod night, and if anyone had limited shot vigness, they might have less. And that the possible town killing roles in this game don't need to be targeted...which means they *don't* get the benefit of this travesty.

-Cerb

So you're saying keep me alive to get shot so other town won't be?

I get the feeling town is supposed to win this by scum crossshooting btw.

[Aristophanes]

I mean. Outed venge utility is that scum must shoot them, or else they risk being eliminated in a 3p lylo lynch, instead of winning the game. I don't see the benefit of MAYBE making our vigs cops as worth throwing away a day, functionally.

Especially given that N1 was lightning rod night, and if anyone had limited shot vigness, they might have less. And that the possible town killing roles in this game don't need to be targeted...which means they *don't* get the benefit of this travesty.

-Cerb

So you're saying keep me alive to get shot so other town won't be?

I get the feeling town is supposed to win this by scum crossshooting btw.

Yes, that's basically what I'm saying.

I also don't see why scum(groupscum, at least) wouldn't just holster their shots for numerous reasons, so it isn't like they're going to crosskill on a night when they know they can't kill town.

-Cerb

Why not?
Not getting rid of the competition still goes against their eventual win!

@A50: I...feel like that number of 3 should not have been given to us...

Nope. It's the number above the threshhold. If he'd said 4 it would have meant something.

Agreed.

I'd rather lynch a town vengeful than a town bg.

I also don't think Ari is more likely to be town than Tails.

Win/Win.

So you want me to shoot them?

[Aristophanes]

@A50: I...feel like that number of 3 should not have been given to us...

Nope. It's the number above the threshhold. If he'd said 4 it would have meant something.

Umm no.

He said 3 non town players.

With each faction considered separately.

That means there are, at most, 3 non-town factions that are not aligned with one another. It's small, but it is a thing. Unless I'm just misreading it.

-Cerb

I think you're reading too much into it. He's saying unlike town where 2 is the max, 3 or more scum can die in a single cycle.

[Aristophanes]

*sigh*

I guess I won't shoot tails

RR seems aight but something perpetually bugs me about them here. Cheeky feels wrong so maybe. Still no answer why Bu or Nancy should be shot.

Not going in {Chicka, Jingle, Gamma, Elsa, Mala} which covers 11 players out of...16?

What am I missing? Toog, Menno...Flicker I keep forgetting is here...uh, Oh! Thor and Chara! Both those two are prolly town I just forgot they exist.

Hey Bu, you said Light Ethos...who did they replace? I must have missed something here.

[Aristophanes]

@A50: I...feel like that number of 3 should not have been given to us...

Nope. It's the number above the threshhold. If he'd said 4 it would have meant something.

That means theres only one groupscum faction right? 2 max from the group scum, and 1 from the 3p.

No lol XD

Likely 9 town, 2 HoB + Traitor, 2 3P, and 3 left for the other scumteam.
Prolly Niska and his cronies for the other 3.

[Aristophanes]

Why not?
Not getting rid of the competition still goes against their eventual win!

Actually, it's heavily implied/explicitly stated by the win condition that different scum factions can win together:

4-

The game ends when either all threats to town have been eliminated or all town members have been eliminated.

Oooo interesting catch actually!

[Aristophanes]

You people hurt my head.

[Aristophanes]

I'd rather you not shoot CT or RR, because both have softclaimed and thus are likely to be solved (or partially solved) in massclaim. Which I believe should happen tomorrow.

Prolly is gonna be one of the two.

Well Ari let me know if you're going to shoot me so I can claim.

I'll let you know asap. Gonna do a quick read of you both first.

[Aristophanes]

Why are you two obvtown??

I have not read either of you as obvtown!

[Aristophanes]

hmmmmm

[Aristophanes]

I'd rather you not shoot CT or RR, because both have softclaimed and thus are likely to be solved (or partially solved) in massclaim. Which I believe should happen tomorrow.

Prolly is gonna be one of the two.

Well Ari let me know if you're going to shoot me so I can claim.

I'll let you know asap. Gonna do a quick read of you both first.

I rescind this. I am not reading the combined ~700 posts you two have made.

I wish there were some sort of consensus.

[Aristophanes]

@Ari:

If you promise to shot only in my short list, I'll vote you now. Otherwise, I gotta go and may not (/probably won't?) be back in time for deadline.

Light Ethos replaced McMenno replaced Skygazer, btw. The three of them combined have less posts than I do (okay, by two now, but it still counts). Might be a "safe" shot to take in terms of getting rid of a low-performing slot (even if it's kind of a cruddy thing to do to Light.) Nancy's the most consensus-y of the three, if you really feel like you need that, though.

This offer's only good for about 4 more minutes, btw.

Sure.

It won't be Thor so Nancy or Light are up I suppose!

Menno seemed to have a lot of ??? on his slot and Nancy is being touted as a good shot by 3 now.

[Aristophanes]

Why are you two obvtown??

I have not read either of you as obvtown!

Maybe you just haven't read?

At worst I've been skimming

I am gonna shoot the Sky/Menno/Light slot though.
Upon reading their Iso I see many words without much to them.

Light caught up, but did nothing with that. Menno has extreme tonal issues, and Sky had a couple posts that really made me question them while the rest just parroted what was happening rather than advance anything.

Plus, gets rid of the cursed slot XD

[Aristophanes]

Intent I guess

[Aristophanes]

Light ethos and chara are due prods btw

[Aristophanes]

[Vite]Ari[/vote]

Won't be back to do this otherwise and we don't want NL.
I'm sure all that needs to be said has been!

Good luck to the crew!

[Aristophanes]

Lmao I can't even die right XD

VOTE: Ari

[Aristophanes]

Dat pagetop of glory! =D

[Aristophanes]

Couldn't have said that like 30 minutes ago?

[Aristophanes]

Ooo interesting!

But do you enable town or scum?

[Aristophanes]

I assume you enable day chat?

[Aristophanes]

Couldn't have said that like 30 minutes ago?

I wasn’t awake 30 minutes ago.

All good! I assume you don't want to be shot tho right? This changes nothing if that's the case.

[Aristophanes]

Do you want me to hammer now?

I already did, 30 minutes ago XD

[Aristophanes]

Ooo interesting!

But do you enable town or scum?

Did you read my role pm?

It was rhetorical. I know you don't know, but it's an interestng thing to consider.

[Aristophanes]

If you get lynched (or I assume die by other day means) the abilities end immediately.

If you die at night they get an extra usage.

Did I miss something?

[Aristophanes]

Oooooh
Destroyed lmfao

[Aristophanes]

No misread again.
I'm on the bus to school and missing something. Lkl

No clue.
I'm dumb.

[Aristophanes]

It has been sent unless nancy wants to die instead. 5 mins until class so if so she needs to state it.

[Aristophanes]

Like, me being big stupid.
Please explain to big stupid.

Dum dum want gum gum
Etc etc.

[Aristophanes]

If you get lynched (or I assume die by other day means) the abilities end immediately.

If you die at night they get an extra usage.

Did I miss something?

If I die, certain abilities will cease to function. I redacted it for a reason.

I enable an important town ability, which won’t work if I die. :/

Cool!

I'm not shooting you skwhy claim not??

[Aristophanes]

Why claim now??*

[Aristophanes]

Oooooh okie cool

[Aristophanes]

Sorry im dense

[Aristophanes]

Its coosorry about that

Just ignore me

[Aristophanes]

Sorry I engaged you then.

[Aristophanes]

What a game! =D

[Aristophanes]

What will the theme be?

Death by Snu Snu I hope!

[Aristophanes]

Happy Scumday btw A50