Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[u r a person 2]

Town AGAIN? Really? Sigh...

VOTE: Ausuka

No naked votes allowed reeeeeeeee

yikes

VOTE: egix

[u r a person 2]

We're not yet out of rvs right
Garmr's town read on me is solid, it's 100% correct

VOTE: u r a person 2
How does one shorten this name??

People call me Urap2 or Urap or U2

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Exilon
I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy
Sash feels reachy
Egix is NAI I think

egix partner

[u r a person 2]

i think i can sort urap fairly easily which is why i put my rvs vote there

orly

[u r a person 2]

i think i can sort urap fairly easily which is why i put my rvs vote there

orly

ok, do you think i'm being overconfident? lying about my ability to read you? something else?

I think you read me correctly in both of our games, but in the second one you reversed and lynched my replacement, ya?

but I was really just puffing my chest a little ;P

I'm excited to play with you again!

[u r a person 2]

Yeah, it's serious. Obviously not super strong yet

[u r a person 2]

@skitter The first post I think is independently scummy. The second feels like redirect of of Egix. And the interaction between them goes no where. whole thing just feels wrong.

Spoiler:

What the heck
I have to do analysis already?
Alright, give me a moment to read slowly
Also, I highly recommend shortening my name to 390.
And I claim Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Lazer Beams Out of It’s Ass.

VOTE: Exilon
I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy
Sash feels reachy
Egix is NAI I think

Skitter feels pushy

Is that meant to be in a good way or a bad way?

Pushy in a bad way. It feels unnatural, like she’s forcing her reads or something.

[u r a person 2]

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af but I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

[u r a person 2]

Don’t have time to get into much right now, but my preliminary scumteam 2/3 is UR2 and Exilon.

All of this is convenient.

[u r a person 2]

First post: "What the heck. I have to do analysis already?" is forced. Like, even if you were actually thinking those thoughts, you still put them down in the post to posture.

Second post: You're throwing shade on two posts while dismissing the scum reads on egix's first post that were being discussed at the time

And your interaction went no where. Egix didn't follow up, and you didn't expand on the point. In fact, there have been no posts from either of you since then until you made this post where you had dropped that scum read entirely.

Don’t have time to get into much right now, but my preliminary scumteam 2/3 is UR2 and Exilon.

Do you think that interaction went somewhere? lol

[u r a person 2]

78: First is my posting style and NAI, second is not simply “shade,”. It’s laying out my thoughts and sorting people, and I am not dismissing the reads on Egix, third, where else were you expecting that conversation to go on my end and where did I ever say I was now town reading skitter. I can scumread more than two people at a time.

so why didn't you mention skitter in your scum team?

[u r a person 2]

Inferno you're moving a little too fast with your reads imo

ya think? recent posts are not from a town perspective

[u r a person 2]

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af but I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

Very much looks like an attempt to pretend to defend soemone but at the same time keep using the" but ....."

As well as trying to emphasize possible scummy actions but raising this in a pretend defense. So If i got lynched and untimatly revealed as town you could simply say you dint think i was scum and could hold no blame

____

well I'm going to actively discourage your lynch, so if you are lynched and flip town, I will hold no blame.

[u r a person 2]

have you guys read sashadin's iso? Way better vote than exilon who is probably not trying to powerscum in the first ten pages and who is taking oddball views on things than the rest of the thread

VOTE: sashaddin

egix still scummy i think

inferno probably town

skitter probably town

[u r a person 2]

bob still town too

[u r a person 2]

This does not feel like natrual progression.
What happened to my being Egix’s partner?

You've continued to post since then and now I'm town reading you. Not sure why it seems unnatural to you =/

[u r a person 2]

seems pretty normal to me

[u r a person 2]

Is Sash doing AtE?

I dunno, is she?

[u r a person 2]

A number of people voted sash after me. What about my vote made you single it out as inexplicable?

[u r a person 2]

This is a frustrating moment to be pushing me for this reason.

I voted there because the iso was scummy af, and I read the iso because their posts shortly prior to my vote were really pinging.

But I actually like the woe-is-me response as town and Exilon asking if it was ate rather than asserting that it was ate and calling that scummy pinged me hard. I was town reading there but I want to give him another read

But none of that is going to happen tonight

[u r a person 2]

What I really want is for you to just let me coast until the weekend

[u r a person 2]

tech weeks can be rough, I know

break a leg

[u r a person 2]

Garmr is super town btw

[u r a person 2]

@garmr you're inferno read basically assumes that they are scum with sash, right?

Let's lynch sash first

[u r a person 2]

show you're work

im town

[u r a person 2]

I'm gonna go right for the cliche here

*ahem*

I think this is TvT

[u r a person 2]

I feel complete apathy wrt the sash wagon. Like it just kinda is, dont really get why it happened

I think ausuka is town now

@exilon ur post just above feels kinda exactly like what a partner would say

Also i want to sort urap

was up super late last night. give me a bit more to wake up and i'll jump in. say like 30-60 minutes

[u r a person 2]

okay skit skit (can I call you skit skit? probably not, eh?)

Let's get into this

[u r a person 2]

your sash vote/post was one such post. it's not inherently scummy but it's another post that feels kinda off, and you've made a whole bunch of them.

if a wagon hadn't formed immediately after my Sash vote, would that change how you perceive it?

[u r a person 2]

like i don't follow your reasons for voting sash. i don't know what prompted you to read sash's iso there.

Sash made these posts shortly before I voted there

Spoiler:

Can you explain this further please? Like, what about Inferno's analysis is great? I'm not seeing your pov here.

The game started hard and fast. My vote on Skitter was pure RVS but I sensed town in her, so I wanted to unvote and settle elsewhere.
Of all the posts I found that far, this was the post that was telling me the most. I was feeling what was being said real good: the yikes 40 , the convenient 76, the free shade on 42... since we are early I decided not to be inactive and sheep a bit. I know taking someone else's reasoning is not the best move, but it's a start. People tell me I'm inactive Day 1 so I try to get away from that image now.

- I'm not touching the Inferno-Exilon feud with a ten-foot pole for now.
- Garmr and I were scum partners once, he hasn't done much but I'm getting the same vibe. I'm watching this slot.
- ChannelDelibird is surprisingly coming very townie to me. I saw a couple of people voting him while skimming the thread, but after reading his ISO I couldn't tell why. Townlean for me.
- Skitter seems town.
- Bob seems nervous scum, like post 97 below
The others don't have enough posts or impact on the game yet.

145 had the scum read on me but also alleviating responsibility by calling it a sheep. 146 it seemed off that they were surprised to get a town read on someone, I disagree on Bob, and I don't like that you're sitting here with your shiny new banner (grats btw) and they didn't think their town read on you even needed explaining in contrast to the other reads that were explained.

And I don't think I could remember another post by them at the time, so that led me to read Sash's iso

[u r a person 2]

when u do have a chance:
1. why is sash's iso scummy af?
2. why is the ate-y reaction townie?

1) I just went through a couple of posts that are scummy, so omitting them

His entrance (11, 16, 90 I think was an attempt to pocket you by pressuring you and then calling you town. I just don't believe that anyone thinks an rvs vote and a single shade post is going to rattle a scum-tell out of you at the start of the game, and 90 posts in I don't think you had really town-told yet, so I don't believe the progression.

oh and hey, that was the entirety of their iso at that point

Actually, why do you see town here?

[u r a person 2]

your sash vote/post was one such post. it's not inherently scummy but it's another post that feels kinda off, and you've made a whole bunch of them.

if a wagon hadn't formed immediately after my Sash vote, would that change how you perceive it?

This a terrible question.
No matter what skitter answers, I can see UR2 turning this into a reason to call skitter scum.

Yes:
“Then you’re scumreading me for no reason. Die scum!”

No:
“Then you’re confabiased against me and are looking for a mislynch. Die scum!”

nice preshade, but I'm pretty confident skitter is town here. The way she has interacted with me - asking to engage, giving assent to me blatantly asking to be allowed to coast and not pushing any sort of scum vibes off that - she's actually interested in sorting me here.

[u r a person 2]

oh and for 2) above I am not sure it was anymore

[u r a person 2]

Someone else talked about how it didn't really make sense because they aren't lynched d1 all the time and while I haven't gone back to check either way, he didn't dispute it, so I'm inclined to believe that the ate was less realistic.

Additionally, when he returned three days later the wagon on him had been stalled, and I can see scum finding new hope that they can get out of their lynch. Obviously town could feel this way, too but I would hope their contributions after returning would be more effortful than Sash's recent posts

[u r a person 2]

Where to next? Anyone got something specific they want my thoughts on?

[u r a person 2]

oh, bob is still town btw

Bob, how are you enjoying the game?

[u r a person 2]

Ausuka, also town

[u r a person 2]

CBY could be scum. I don't have a lot of experience with them but I think I expect better questions. This is based on the time they were active, btw, I don't think there's a good argument to be made here for an activity tell considering they have not been active on site

[u r a person 2]

On re read I think Egix is actually probably town

[u r a person 2]

I think that if Exilon is town that makes Garmr town nearly 100% because of that interaction about a gambit

[u r a person 2]

That backtrack was hard to read.

Hi, my name is Urap. Delighted to make your acquaintance. =P

[u r a person 2]

Then why would you ask this question?
If skitter wants to sort you, then shouldn’t she be asking you questions rather than the other way around?
This whole last section feels like you spewing Town in an attempt to get skitter to townread you.
I don’t like that.

Why can't I help her along the path? Isn't that what friends are for?

[u r a person 2]

Oh, it is me spewing town, you're right about that. If you're town, that should be a good thing from your perspective. Why isn't it?

[u r a person 2]

Like seriously. Someone has been asking me to provide content so that they can sort me for days. Now I'm providing content and you're shading it with a scum motivation, but what would the townie thing to do be? Not provide content? You're either tunneled or arguing in bad faith

[u r a person 2]

I'm going with tunneled on this one

[u r a person 2]

Like seriously. Someone has been asking me to provide content so that they can sort me for days. Now I'm providing content and you're shading it with a scum motivation, but what would the townie thing to do be? Not provide content? You're either tunneled or arguing in bad faith

No one asked you to provide content. They just want to sort you.

Oopsie.

like this is almost certainly tunneled town

[u r a person 2]

so then here's where we're at, order not important

town:
Garmr (unless scum with exilon)
Lil Uzi vert
Ausuka
Urap
Skitter
Egix
Inferno
Bob

not town
exilon
ruirui
cby
Channel
Sashadin

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler: Scummy Parts of Rui Rui Iso

You're not comparing the start of the last game to the start of this one, and are instead are looking at my posting from later points of the game - this is a mistake

If you don't lynch me first I'm sure I can appear towny

Hi guys, I don't think that Sash is mafia. I do think cby is suspicious or at least needs more sorting, and I find it weird that people are jumping on me without also considering him

VOTE: cbynumber

Spoiler: townie parts of ruirui's iso

I think I'm going to quit playing Mafia, I always end up being lynched in the first days and that doesn't help town at all.

You're not being lynched right now, only wagoned, and there isn't a lot to go off of at this point in the game

Feeling pretty iffy about RuiRui so far. Most of her posts so far are pretty surface-level stuff ("Inferno, you're moving too fast with your reads" without really talking about what that might mean, or "well now nobody can use that for info" after the comment about reactions to LUV) without truly engaging in anyone's alignment. Need to see more evidence of desire to actively uncover the scum rather than just reacting blandly to a random post here or there.

*Reads her ISO*

I'll admit, you're not wrong there. She does feel underwhelming compared to last game so far.

You're not comparing the start of the last game to the start of this one, and are instead are looking at my posting from later points of the game - this is a mistake

Can you and/or Rui talk about experiences with Inferno as scum?

I just played in a game where he was scum, he was mostly lynched because we had a lot of investigative power to clear other people. I don't know if I'd be able to catch them as scum here, I do think that while his fast entrance today seems different, the circumstances are also different and I think it's something that can be done as scum anyway

Yeah, this is not a bad wagon at all

[u r a person 2]

Again, another mistake. You can’t say Gamr could be scum with Exil, call Gamr town, and Exil possibly scum all in one breath. That doesn’t even make sense.

It makes perfect sense. Gamr is town unless he is scum with precisely exilon. If exilon is town, Gamr is town. If Exilon is scum, Gamr might be scum.

[u r a person 2]

first, I have Exil as not town. With the town reads I have PoE is def the way to go, and that's what we're doing.

And no, it doesn't work that way. Exil can be scum independent of gamr being scum. Gamr cannot be scum independent of Exil being scum.

[u r a person 2]

but like chill a hot min, dude

you're so tunneled you're trying to play this gotcha game, and I guarantee you're not going to get me to trip over my laces as either alignment.

[u r a person 2]

because by your own PoE you are admitting Gamr is possibly not Town.

yes

this is exactly what i was doing. I'm glad we're on the same page now.

[u r a person 2]

Hi everyone! For those who haven't played with me before (which is most of you - it's been a long time!), please note that my username is commonly abbreviated as CDB.

This is your first forum game in years right?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Unvote

Hey, Bob. What do you think about stuff?

When you played in the past, were you good?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Unvote

Hey, Bob. What do you think about stuff?

When you played in the past, were you good

at scum*?

[u r a person 2]

c) why aren't you more paranoid of my shiny new banner? (wrt 318). i guess what i'm getting at why are you calling sash out for townreading me when you're pretty confidentally calling me town too?

I have a ridiculously inflated sense of my own abilities =) seriously, though, reasons~

[u r a person 2]

don't think taht was a serious attempt to pressure me, or to pocket me. i can see the argument that he wasn't sure how to enter the game so he just threw the first vote down that he could think of.
don't really see ur argument tho. like why does he even start this game trying to pocket me, idk if he even remembers me from the one game we played together

I don't have the understanding of him necessary to try and figure out why he targeted you if there was a reason, but I do think it looked like a weak attempt at pocketing you. It's more though that I don't understand the purpose of the posts from a town-mindset. It wasn't a real attempt to sort you, and if it wasn't that, then what was it?

[u r a person 2]

honestly not entirely sure why you're so confident in town!me rn; you're kinda talking like u know i'm town ...?

I mean, your eye had turned towards me, and I had been and continued to give every opportunity for shade and a town read, but rather than take the bait you felt like you were trying to coax me into participating.

I think if you were scum, coaxing me into participating without pressuring me is probably the only way you could have played it that would be entirely outside your scumrange.

We both know I can be loud in a thread. If you were scum here that knew I was town, you're not going to gently prod me into engaging and solving this game

[u r a person 2]

what's the vote count right now

[u r a person 2]

Even speaking as someone who thinks the RuiRui wagon is the best one currently available, I really like your thinking here. Well, most of it. I agree that a lack of townreads on Sash would normally be a good indicator but Sash has done pretty much nothing so far, so not really anything for scum to feel like they need to townread yet.

This feels like a pocket attempt

[u r a person 2]

ngl none of this has really reassured me of you being town, and i'm also a little paranoid because i don't think that scum!you tries to mislynch me here like ever; i think you nearly always try to pocket me till u can nk me so when i see you hard-townreading me and trying to get me to townread you i get a little nervous

yeah I would 100% pocket you for sure

Say we didn't lynch either of Sash/Ruirui

where do you wanna go

[u r a person 2]

That would not have been my first choice =/

[u r a person 2]

I was going to suggest Channel

[u r a person 2]

He's a vet, but first game back in years and I think that makes the greeting tell likely viable

There's a tendency to present a narrative for why he's making his posts that i think is scum indicative. Posts like 174 certainly, but even posts like this one where he is careful to show why the question is relevant rather than just ask it.

You're clearly reading in order; why did you not respond to #121?

Same with this post where he makes sure to explain why the question is relevant. This one comes with the added benefit of undercutting a vote on him.

Bob, did you consider voting for Egix in this post? Your reasoning here doesn't seem any weaker than the reasoning for your previous vote on me.

I think the post i quoted in an earlier post is a pocket attempt

[u r a person 2]

why do you town read Channel?

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE: Egix

I'd pretty much convinced myself as of my own #121 ('Egix decided he'd done a clever and useful reactions test, therefore assumed one of the reactions to it must have been from scum' is a reasonably common town thought process and the one that made the most sense to explain #104), and his responses just now all fit with a pretty solid 'bullheaded town' mindset. I think scum would have been more likely to concede me a point over #121, but Egix is sticking with his (misguided) thought process while still being able to open-mindedly address other issues like my calling out of RuiRui. Not lynching here for now.

VOTE: RuiRui

quoting this because I didn't like how I buried it in the previous post

[u r a person 2]

kinda paranoid you *are* trying to pocket me

I am definitely trying to pocket you, but as town. =P

[u r a person 2]

Urap: I've already pretty much answered your question to skitter earlier, but: I would describe myself as a competent-but-unexceptional player who is capable of occasional great scum games but usually is noticeably worse at it than town.

Thanks mate, appreciate ya.

[u r a person 2]

yeah i agree, that does seem like a blindspot =/

I'm liking my poe right now. Only person i didn't read through today was exilon. We're probably not sitting on two scum wagons right now, and I'd much rather sash to ruirui

but like I said, poe is good enough that I won't be heartbroken if rui is the lynch. I could be wrong on sash

I don't think I am tho. Why are you town reading sash?

[u r a person 2]

I'll see if I can actually find words for 382 tomorrow instead of just rolling my eyes at it. Yeesh.

like, this is clearly a guy hamming it up rn.

town can be dramatic, but it's gotta be scum indicative over all, ya?

[u r a person 2]

If you haven’t read through Exil, how are you so sure on the Gamr/Exil associative?

I got to the gambit discussion through gamr's iso, love

[u r a person 2]

bleh idk everything you're saying feels kinda reachy
like you're looking for things to push but like don't really believe it idk

I believe in my town reads.

I mean, this is what I've got, so =/

[u r a person 2]

like no why is this scum indicative
like if i don't think about it sounds good but if like i actually think about it ... why is this obviously scum indicative?

I think over reactions probably come from scum more than town? I really don't think this is controversial, and I didn't say it was damning. I said that town can be dramatic, but that it's probably scum-indicative in the aggregate and I think that's absolutely true?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: urap

sorry if i'm wrong, but i don't see town!you rn really :/

It's okay. We're all wrong sometimes. If you do manage to push this through, which I don't think will happen, promise me you'll reconsider on Channel?

[u r a person 2]

What annoys me most atm is that it's not even that scummy; town players like this have existed forever. It's just straight-up bad.

Good call distancing yourself from my possible lynch. I dig it

[u r a person 2]

So you haven’t read Exil, but you’re perfectly willing to lump him with Gamr
You townread Gamr, but you have Exil as not Town by PoE
On top of the claim that skitter asked you to provide sortable content, which a) he didn’t do and b) your content wasn’t sortable and c) you seem to be implying you can sort people by ISO, so why did you need to provide content again?
And now you’re trying to push a scumread on CDB?

Yeah I’m not buying this.

You'll town read a lot of this in retrospect, especially the content part and probably the CDB part

[u r a person 2]

Like, it's entirely reasonable to have me in a 'not sure, would lynch' pile right now. I would expect most people to have me around there right now. What's not reasonable is total confidence that you can PoE everyone on Day 1 and then go dig up a bunch of absolute nonsense to support an answer you already decided must be true.

So then why aren't you voting me

[u r a person 2]

Like, it's entirely reasonable to have me in a 'not sure, would lynch' pile right now. I would expect most people to have me around there right now. What's not reasonable is total confidence that you can PoE everyone on Day 1 and then go dig up a bunch of absolute nonsense to support an answer you already decided must be true.

So then why aren't you voting me

Like if you think that's what I'm doing, then why are you still hedging on me being town

[u r a person 2]

You're pushing my lynch while trying to stay on the sidelines

Put your money where your mouth is

[u r a person 2]

okay, he's probably town

[u r a person 2]

town:
Garmr (unless scum with exilon)
Lil Uzi vert
Ausuka
Urap
Skitter
Egix
Inferno
Bob
Channel

not town
exilon
ruirui
cby
Sashadin

[u r a person 2]

sorry to get you riled up

[u r a person 2]

If I'm wrong, it's probably in {ausuka, Garmr} and probably just gamr

[u r a person 2]

I am screaming on the inside

yeah i'm getting there buddy just slow down

[u r a person 2]

it was literally just a copy/paste of the last list with the change on channel

[u r a person 2]

town:

Lil Uzi vert
Ausuka
Urap
Skitter
Egix
Inferno
Bob
Channel

not town
Garmr (unless exilon is town)
exilon
ruirui
cby
Sashadin

[u r a person 2]

sheep me when im dead~

[u r a person 2]

I get there in the end

[u r a person 2]

A summary:
UR2: “overreactions come from scum”
CDB: *overreaction*
UR2: CDB is town

...
...
...

Actually wtf

I mean different scenarios, mate. This is a town reaction here

[u r a person 2]

well I'm going to actively discourage your lynch, so if you are lynched and flip town, I will hold no blame.

I regret considering you as town already, this just looks bad and not from a town motivated view.
At this point there's no threat to this lynch happening but you are already writing it off as a town with very little doubt, and already preparing for the town credit on a town flip.

i mean, if you take it out of context and hide how i'm matching his language, sure

[u r a person 2]

it's amazing how hard tunneled you are mate =/

[u r a person 2]

Did you know I actually have a decent track record of hard tunneling scum on this site?

i did not.

[u r a person 2]

should that change how I feel about your push on me?

[u r a person 2]

The fact is that you are tunneled on town, and most of what you posit is indicative of that and tedious to respond to. You show no inclination of reexamining your read, and yet you are also clearly town. It is a very discouraging thing to play with.

[u r a person 2]

i'd be good with a channel lynch

[u r a person 2]

ooops got slots confused cancel that

[u r a person 2]

let's just lynch sash

[u r a person 2]

Like, it's entirely reasonable to have me in a 'not sure, would lynch' pile right now. I would expect most people to have me around there right now. What's not reasonable is total confidence that you can PoE everyone on Day 1 and then go dig up a bunch of absolute nonsense to support an answer you already decided must be true.

So then why aren't you voting me

I HAVE LITERALLY ALREADY SAID THAT THIS KIND OF AWFUL EGO COMES FROM TOWN QUITE A LOT. READ MY POSTS RATHER THAN TRY TO PICK HOLES IN THEM FOR ITS OWN SAKE

this was town tho

[u r a person 2]

lol

only been on this slot like a tic from lynch for days and days

Also, it's clear you need to work on your meta profile for me if that post pinged you

[u r a person 2]

who did you mean in 469?

I can't answer this question

[u r a person 2]

what's the answer

[u r a person 2]

Looking at that list now, I'm reasonably sure that I'm giving at least one of my 'would not lynch' list too much credit somewhere, but working out where my blind spots have been is what flips are for.

it's probably the one that you basically say you have no read on

Solid D1 poe, mate. Well done

[u r a person 2]

Solid D1 poe, mate. Well done

You'll note that I've simply grouped people into whether or not I'd lynch them on Day 1, rather than decide that I've nailed the scumteam and then go on to create reasons why they must be scum.

wasn't being sarcastic, we're not all that far off from one another, and also that's not what I did, but take it negatively if you want

[u r a person 2]

More detail if u want later (ie prob after work when i'm at a pc) but it feels kinda pontificating-y and looks like readslist i make when i'm scum and feel like i need to give reada on everyone
There's a lot of words that feel like they're ~there~ to be there so that People See You Have Reads (tm)

Kinda hard to explain (esp without pulling individual quotes up) but i'll try again tonight if i did a bad job explaining this

who is this talking about?

[u r a person 2]

God I don't want a last minute lynch on a spontaneous wagon.

why not tho

[u r a person 2]

inferno? he's almost certainly town.

Why inferno??

[u r a person 2]

i don't have time to iso you, could you point me to the posts you want me to find?

[u r a person 2]

yeah, sure, I'll give you my understanding of your meta

In both the nsg game and here you're very forceful with your opinions. In that scum game we just played you felt much more gentle.

Don't get me wrong you still disagreed with people in that game, and you still played with a bit of stubborness, but it just didn't have the same effect.

Maybe that was in part because you were sharing the slot with RC, and if that's true then I guess after this game I'll have to come up with a new way of reading you, but that's what I am going with here.

Bounce it back at ya, how the heck do you think this is my scum game after watching the game that just finished? lolol

[u r a person 2]

because the whole "skitter doesn't like to talk with people when scum" thing is hooey lolol

[u r a person 2]

presence. Presence is really the word i'm looking for. You have a greater presence both in the thread and with your thoughts as town

[u r a person 2]

Thank you for the compliment ;P

[u r a person 2]

Ehhh, I disagree that I'm not showing conviction.

One thing I've noticed as a tell for myself is that my reads have more inertia in my scum games. Yes, I'll switch reads, but you don't get the whole worldview change that happens sometimes when I reevaluate as town. Compare this game to when I decided NMSA was town in NSG's game. And then consider that I stayed on starwing all d1 in shadd, and made one read switch on vedith d2 from scum to not scum.

[u r a person 2]

Obviously, that's on my lists of things to fix next time I'm lucky enough to roll scum, but you get a freebie this game =P

[u r a person 2]

i mean sure, but nothing like that happened in this game

tell that to the people calling my reads all over the place and a mess =/

If you guys could temper each other I'd be a town read

[u r a person 2]

can we get back to why you're town reading sash? I think we're on scum here

[u r a person 2]

okay, I agree that looked kind of townie, but what about their most recent posts? The two scum reads are obviously fabricated. I don't think it's fair that I've tunneled on them. You even forgot I was on their wagon at one point, lol. I forget what the other one was off the top of my head but I remember thinking it was a reach, too.

we're what, 3 days out? I could compromise onto ruirui

I know you're paranoid of me but I'm sure you can see how tunneled inferno is. The fact that the only other person pushing that read is at best (fypov) over-scum reading me should give you pause.

I disagree with you on channel. I see why you're scum reading there. I was scum reading there (for basically the same reasons, which you didn't like at the time =/ ), but I think that frustrated outburst was super town-indicative. It would have been hard to fake in real time I think.

[u r a person 2]

idk if inferno is tunneled really,

you really are tunneled if you don't see it.

do you remember the part where he made like 5 posts saying that I was scum because I felt the need to produce content in response to you saying you wanted to sort me?

[u r a person 2]

i don't think his garmr read is particularly a reach; i was in the game he was scum with garmr. sash was *a lot* more confident as scum there (i was hard-townreading him for a while iirc), and garmr looks kinda simialr, so i'm not surprised he feels this way

that's right. it wasn't a reach so much as it was easily faked

[u r a person 2]

Also bolded feels like ur conceding the point that he's been townie and then redirecting me towards something else u can try to convince me is scummy

yeah that's exactly what I was doing because scum makes townie posts, and i'm not going to argue that they're scummy. that would diminish from stronger arguments, like how sash's recent posts are scummy

[u r a person 2]

that would diminish from stronger arguments, like how sash's recent posts are scummy

Scummy by Nature is my garage cover-up band.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idx3GSL2KWs

i laughed a little louder than I probably should have ;P

[u r a person 2]

Also bolded feels like ur conceding the point that he's been townie and then redirecting me towards something else u can try to convince me is scummy

yeah that's exactly what I was doing because scum makes townie posts, and i'm not going to argue that they're scummy. that would diminish from stronger arguments, like how sash's recent posts are scummy

If Sash’s early posts were townie, then why were you scumreading him for those posts?

we weren't referring to an earlier post.

[u r a person 2]

you know that i was

[u r a person 2]

no, you're mistaken.

[u r a person 2]

I was responding to this by Skitter

also i think his utter confusion as to why luv's reads should have more ~weight~ is kinda townie (or, well, not weight exactly, but should be given more credence since we *know* he's town); i don't think that scum really forget the ~importance~ of an ic or are like obvlivious to that sort of thing or like try to shade him that way

Which was referencing the following posts. And actually, I only really think the initial response could be seen as townie. By the end when Sash understands the question and still falls back to the same line, I become pretty meh on the whole thing. But like I said, I don't think this interaction is best analyzed when trying to determine their alignment.

Spoiler:

I’m confirmed town. Why do you not have an opinion on me voting for you?

I don't know how your opinion could effect the game differently than other players. If you want to explain please?

I’m confirmed town. Why do you not have an opinion on me voting for you?

I don't know how your opinion could effect the game differently than other players. If you want to explain please?

An Announcement:

Lil Uzi Vert is

aligned with town

I know, but HOW does it change something?

Uzi (or is it LUV?) asks: why don't you have an opinion on my vote?
sash answers: your opinion doesn't affect the game any differently than any other player (???? this isn't a response to the question whatsoever)

I meant that I didn't know how his opinion of me should affect the game differently than how the other players see me. It was not affirmative, it was interrogative.
Please walk through it with baby steps, I don't get how this comftown-from-the-start affects this game.

He asked you why you hadn't voiced your opinion on his vote.

Your answer addressed the topic, his opinion.

Ah, we're getting somewhere I think. I didn't care about the opinion of LUV because I don't understand how is opinion is affecting the game differently. That's why I didn't voice my opinion on his vote. Because I can't see what difference it makes, so it didn't come to my mind.

[u r a person 2]

Another compromise I would be game for today would be High Risk Gamble

[u r a person 2]

o

The gamestate doesn't actually seem that complacent to me. I voted for Sash, followed by a number of votes in quick succession. A counter wagon on ruirui formed and then died, followed by you and inferno tunneling on me and getting sheeped by the other two slots at risk of getting lynched. And if there has been a lull, it's because we've been waiting three days for a low-activity-slot's replacement to finish catching up

And if you think scum is complacent, that goes completely counter to your idea that I'm scum since I'm basically playing "Let's Make a Deal" up here

So can you talk to me a little more about your gamestate read, because I'm kind of lost here =/

[u r a person 2]

oops quote - 629 is what I'm referring to

[u r a person 2]

The way I see it, if Sash is scum, their partners are in the less active and are letting you and inferno do the work to keep them from getting lynched.

If Sash is town, then I agree scum is already probably positioned and complacent and is just prodging til this thing goes down, whichever way. That would point to maybe one in {Exilon, garmr}, maybe 1 in those not voting a main wagon, and probably ruirui

[u r a person 2]

so if you think sash is town, let's vote ruirui because I don't think you or inferno are scum and if scum is complacent, I don't think my wagon is clean.

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: rui rui

[u r a person 2]

But by this logic, Sash’s partners according to you have to be literally (Channel, HRG).
Do you really think that’s the scumteam?

This is not the range of players I would limit it to, no.

There's likely 1, maybe 2 but I'd guess 1 currently voting sash, {ausuka, exilon} would be my guess there
And I'd say egix and hrg rather than channel as the off wagons possibilities

but actually if sash is scum, skitter might actually be scum here because I don't see it being you and I'd be surprised if my wagon was clean there either

[u r a person 2]

but actually if sash is scum, skitter might actually be scum here because I don't see it being you and I'd be surprised if my wagon was clean there either

lol

like, I keep waiting for you to figure out I'm town, and if some point sash flipped scum I'd look back and wonder if maybe this was more than just normal skitter stubbornness

[u r a person 2]

I don't try to hard on the vca until after a flip but inferno asked, and tbh skitter, of my wagon at least one of {skitter, ruirui, sash} is scum. town skitter makes sense with town sash and scum ruirui. town skitter with town ruirui and scum sash is possible, but not nearly as compelling

[u r a person 2]

it's crazy to me that you don't see how tunneled he has been and i really just don't see it coming from town.

[u r a person 2]

coming from scum*

[u r a person 2]

it's crazy to me that you don't see how tunneled he has been and i really just don't see it coming from town.

Tunneling isn't a town only trait.......... I have seen scum tunnel their scum mate from the start of the game to the end with out reading another person once.

yeah but some of the stuff, like scum reading me for posting content is too silly to come from scum

[u r a person 2]

Just want to straighten this out you guys think rui rui is scum if sash is town right?

uh, i think almost for certain they are not svs because of how they ended up as counter wagons at one point

I think that if Sash is town, then that means both wagons (mine and sash) were on town. Given that scenario, it seems unlikely that all 3 other people (and all 4 overall) were town. In this world, I'd say that ruirui is the most likely to be scum.

[u r a person 2]

Given that scenario, it seems unlikely that all 3 other people (and all 4 overall)

on my wagon

were town.

ebwop

[u r a person 2]

both of you should trust the better aspects of your natures and sheep me ;P

[u r a person 2]

also scum!sash unvotes his cw because .....

let's flip ruirui

[u r a person 2]

skitter isn't happening today.

pick a different wagon

1 day left time for everyone to be thinking about how they can compromise

[u r a person 2]

skitter you should stick with rui, im coming around on town sash

[u r a person 2]

and everyone off the rui wagon should be asking themselves why they aren't on the rui wagon with such little time left

[u r a person 2]

..... like why tho
I have no idea why u think this or where this is coming from

I mean, I've been moving off my sash scumread for a day? ish? time is wonky right now.

I'm kind of buying your whole scum was complacent bit, and in that world rui is likely scum

and since the wagons are basically equal, you're probably deciding right now where compromise votes are gonna go

so i think you should stick with rui, who was your instinct like a week ago

[u r a person 2]

on the other hand rui is a terrific compromise wagon.

An argument can't be made for why the slot is town
The slot is going to have to be sorted eventually

and most importantly, you think sash is town

[u r a person 2]

how about ruirui?

[u r a person 2]

vote ruirui

gogogogo don't wait don't think just do it

[u r a person 2]

I know I'm green. From my pov, voting Ruirui makes some sense strategically then. However, I don't see much scum in her 11 posts. What's the best option for me here?

if you're town, voting ruirui is way more plus town than getting lynched.

[u r a person 2]

@Sash you can give it a hot minute before hammering in case they are around to claim.

10 hours til deadline, so maybe as late as you are comfortably sure you can come back to hammer.

I'm comfortable lynching this sans claim over sash, if it comes down to it, though

[u r a person 2]

Hey, do you guys think rui rui would be more likely to check into this thread prior to the deadline as town or as scum? Scum, yeah?

And even if you don't think it's alignment indicative, I think we can all agree that it's pretty anti-town to not be around much at all in the last few days before the deadline while being wagoned?

This is clearly the better choice for today, and I'm disappointed with those of you who did not see that.

[u r a person 2]

dark green

= conf!town

light green

= town read

red

= probably scum

Please let me know if I got your alignment wrong. Thanks!

Sashaddin (5)

:

u r a person 2 159

,

Ausuka 162

,

bob3141 180

,

Exilon 360

,

Garmr 456

u r a person 2 (4)

:

Inferno390 79

,

skitter30 398

,

RuiRui 484

,

Sashaddin 501

RuiRui (2)

:

ChannelDelibird 174

,

Egix96 233

Exilon (1)

:

High Risk Gamble 24

Not Voting: Lil Uzi Vert 538

[u r a person 2]

lil uzi should be in dark green, too =/

[u r a person 2]

Thumbs up from me
VOTE: Gamr
I think we start here.

are you town reading me now?

[u r a person 2]

urap why did u pull out that vc?

it was the point in time where I was still being wagoned, which is most interesting to me because I know my own alignment

[u r a person 2]

so do u still think there's scum on ur wagon?

I think the color coded vc makes clear what my current reads are, skitter. =/

[u r a person 2]

what i'm trying to get at is why u no longer think there's scum on that wagon

the four people on my wagon were Inferno, you, Rui Rui, and sash

Rui Rui was flipped town
Inferno is very likely town for all the reasons I gave yesterday

I don't think you and Sash are SvS because of how you a) first defended sash and then b) made an eod push to lynch sash at a critical moment when you could have just stayed on RuiRui. If you are SvS, you're dramatically better than I am. So much so that we're not even playing the same game.

So, assuming you aren't SvS, I don't think you make such a push onto me while I am town reading you and the game is sauntering towards a mislynch in either sash or ruirui (just prior to you getting a wagon started on me with inferno)

Could sash be scum? Yes, sash could still be scum. But I agree with you that around the time of this VC the game was stagnant, and that really doesn't indicate that the leading wagon is on scum unless it's being bused pretty heavily. If that's what happened I'd look at bob, exilon and ausuka (in that order) as potential partners.

[u r a person 2]

so do u still think there's scum on ur wagon?

I think the color coded vc makes clear what my current reads are, skitter. =/

What's weird is you think everyone on your wagon is town. Oh also you are wrong about me being scum so can I ask why?

The whole thing is based on town reads and poe'd from there.

[u r a person 2]

so do u still think there's scum on ur wagon?

I think the color coded vc makes clear what my current reads are, skitter. =/

What's weird is you think everyone on your wagon is town. Oh also you are wrong about me being scum so can I ask why?

also thanks for being the only one so far to tell me that I got their alignment wrong <3

[u r a person 2]

What's weird is you think everyone on your wagon is town.

yeah, it would be really weird if I weren't actually making an attempt to solve the game

[u r a person 2]

i'm a lot less confident on town!sash (or, more accurately, i am considering the possibility of scum!sash;

the way he danced around the rui hammer was kinda bad and kinda felt like he was asking permission to hammer and i just ... eh don't like the way he acted around it

)

urap what do u think about this?

I dunno, skitter. Yes, you're right, he did do that, but it's difficult for me to scum read it because - i'll just get the posts one sec

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler:

if you're town, voting ruirui is way more plus town than getting lynched.

All right, but I think she's

L-1

.
Intent to hammer!

Brb in 30 minutes, this is fun!

@Sash you can give it a hot minute before hammering in case they are around to claim.

10 hours til deadline, so maybe as late as you are comfortably sure you can come back to hammer.

I'm comfortable lynching this sans claim over sash, if it comes down to it, though

@Sash you can give it a hot minute before hammering in case they are around to claim.

10 hours til deadline, so maybe as late as you are comfortably sure you can come back to hammer.

I'm comfortable lynching this sans claim over sash, if it comes down to it, though

I'll be back for a hammer later, I won't let the day pass without a lynch, his or mine. Well, his preferably since I'm having a lot of fun here lately.

[u r a person 2]

Tell who else atm you think is scum or think may be scum

My list is empty! Except maybe Garmr., but not sure.. I am not good at scumreading early, I get better in the later days when more flips are done.

though I think this goes directly against what sash is saying today about scumreading garmr?

[u r a person 2]

sash, if you were scumreading gamr at eod yesterday, why did you think that he was so townie that he was likely to be a nk if town?

[u r a person 2]

i mean i could be wrong, but if you think i'm scum trying to pocket my entire d1 wagon, then you should probably say that and vote me =)

[u r a person 2]

That sounds like scum being all giddy about a mislynch to me tbh.

Sure, I could see that.

I quoted those posts because Skitter had asked me if I thought it was suspicious that Sash seemed to be dancing around the hammer. I found that not very compelling because Sash had basically given RuiRui a 30 minute window to come to the thread and claim, and for all I know would have hammered at that time had I not asked for them to delay.

But, yes, the twice used "this is fun" line did ping me a tiny bit, as well.

[u r a person 2]

inferno is town and this shit from answering the question to shading inferno (933) is scummy af

[u r a person 2]

But my point was him town reading you and then saying me throwing shade back on you (my scum read) is scummy when you been openly throwing shade all game. and his turned a blind eye. I wasn't about thinking your shade was towny just a inconsistency I noticed when scum hunting. This pinged me with the timing of our argument ect.

First, I don't believe any single action is 100% alignment-indicative. Two people can exhibit the same behavior when playing from opposite alignments. That's what makes this game interesting.

Second, I'm not town reading him because of his shade, and no where did I say that I was. I've been clear about why I am town reading him, and it hasn't changed.

[u r a person 2]

When I was just curious about how he got to that conclusion. I was town reading him before this.

I mean, I made a post detailing why I think the people on my wagon were town. You never responded to that. Instead you just called it "weird" twice, without asking me a question about it at all.

What you're calling "defensive" is my annoyance with your bullshit shade that you won't back up with a read one way or another

[u r a person 2]

Finally, what you call "full out defensive" is me telling you to vote me if you think I'm acting scummy, which is hardly a defense by any definition.

[u r a person 2]

This sounds a little like scum buddy trying defend the actions of his partner. Sash in fact danced around teh hammer as you put for why more than 30 mins. Even to go so far as trying encourage otehr to vote in his place.

Did it not look like a person wanting to avoid if at possible, the blaim for mislynch

I don't think you understood what I was saying there, and I think you should reread it.

[u r a person 2]

Ah right, I hadn't read that far. Okay so if Sash flips red then that's not such a good look for urap, but if Sash flips green... meh, it probably doesn't mean much.

If I am scum it literally must be with sash as a partner. It's absurd to think that I would lead the cheer on ruirui so vociferously for any reason other than to avoid the lynch of a partner - further, in that world sash is likely a scum PR because I would not do that to save a goon.

[u r a person 2]

I did read it.

Im asking what you think about sash for teh several hours before his vote. You claim teh last 30 mins in your opinion was sash waited for chance for rui to roleclaim.

I am trying to determin your opinion on it.

No, you clearly do not understand.

Sash appeared ready to vote rui very quickly, saying they planned to hammer and would be back in 30 minutes.

I didn't want the hammer to happen so quickly, so I asked rui to delay, and rui aceded

[u r a person 2]

Acceded to my request. That's why I don't think sash waiting was scummy. I asked them to wait

[u r a person 2]

Yeah Bob is town here.
I could see Sash/HRG. In that case the third is UR2?
VOTE: Sash

What changed your read on me from certain scum to only maybe scum?

[u r a person 2]

Yeah Bob is town here.
I could see Sash/HRG. In that case the third is UR2?
VOTE: Sash

Wow I can't believe I'm agreeing with you through I'm less sure about hrg I have them as null.

So you are scum reading me?

[u r a person 2]

i was thinking the two of you were partners but the mroe i think about it i think this exchange is probably not partner indicative? unless there isn't daytalk?

These questions seem directed at me, strangely

It's not indicative of partners because we are not partners

I have no idea if there is day talk, you should go read the setup and let me know what you find. That said, I've only seen theories based on the presence of lack of day talk end up being wrong

[u r a person 2]

sometimes i just have games where i don't have scumreads. this is one of those games.

Sure doesn't feel that way from my vantage point ;p

[u r a person 2]

i think this is a playstyle clash
i would call how i voted urap and repeatedly called him scum and repeatedly asked other people to join me and/or to share their reads on him to be repeatedly trying to wagon him

I agree. This was def skitter actively trying to get me flipped

And it's actually a reason why skitter is town. There's no way that scum!skitter tries to Lynch me d1 without a second scum on the wagon with her

[u r a person 2]

the sash 'asking people whether i should vote or not' thing happened before that

I see that and I could see it coming from scum. I don't know if it's really that indicative, tho

[u r a person 2]

sometimes i just have games where i don't have *many* scumreads. this is one of those games :p

I wasn't trying to throw shade. I'm still trying to pocket you (as town) and I will get there by the end of today

[u r a person 2]

Could town please unvote Sash, k thanks

[u r a person 2]

Garmr, if you're town, I think you're making this game a bit more confused than I'd generally like it to be.

If you're scum, you're playing out of your mind well, I think. I'm not voting here today

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: egix

[u r a person 2]

He can confirm that better than I can though. Urap2?

Yes, I was scum reading him, but after an interaction I hard reversed to a strong town read

I imagine that sash likely did a search for cdb, while I generally referred to him as Channel.

[u r a person 2]

feels like a real thought process

this doesn't feel like a real thought process, so could you explain it to me please, Skitter?

[u r a person 2]

to clarify, your post 1082 doesn't feel like a real thought process

[u r a person 2]

Bob is town.

Yeah Bob is town here.

i think bob is town

Whatever you three are seeing, I'm not seeing it...

feels like a real thought process

sorry, are you telling me you can track his thought process from "bob is town" to "bob is town" to "bob is town"

is the thought process, "bob is town?"

[u r a person 2]

ah hold on my bad

[u r a person 2]

okay retract that because I had misread egix's post

But specifically that post which you called a real thought process, how is it a real thought process?

[u r a person 2]

okay retract it all i get it now

i was confused

[u r a person 2]

yep i got there on my own. sorry sorry

[u r a person 2]

at first i thought that egix had quoted garmr saying bob is town three times and then saying he didn't understand what garmr was seeing to make those three posts

reading too fast

[u r a person 2]

i think he's town.

if he's scum, he's playing a good game. Not as good a game as gamr is playing if he's scum

but a very good game, nonetheless

[u r a person 2]

what do you think of egix and why does that mean we should absolutely lynch him today?

[u r a person 2]

I'm laying in bed on a laptop with no mouse atm so please forgive me for not going back through his iso right now to find examples

but i consistently find myself thinking that he has interesting takes on things, which implies actual thinking and solving. it's at least indicative

and then i also get a tone read off of him. There have been times where I've felt that he's been excited about the interaction he is involved in, in a manner that i think comes from town

[u r a person 2]

We are not connecting at all this game and I'm really disappointed by that because i think you're town

All game I've been hoping we would sync up

[u r a person 2]

I mean, like I said, I could see him as scum before I could see inferno, or gamr at this point being scum

but I wouldn't want to lynch there before egix

[u r a person 2]

Obviously, I don't think they're scum together, and I realize now that has also fed into my town read on Exelon Energy Corp

[u r a person 2]

you got a town read on egix, uzi?

[u r a person 2]

if so, can you help me see it?