Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

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vote reck

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oh no UT is actually scum here isn't he

sad day

Yes but plz ignore til day 3 I promise I won't nk u

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Thx bb

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Reck is my bbf I cba to vote him rn

vote porkens

lol IDGAF ama

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Well the IAAU one is simple. There are two posts there and his vote is the kind of minor inconsistency scum go for.
GC has a more developed ISO of different stuff, but most recently 305 calls a bunch of people suspicious and disappointing without really doing anything.

We caught two scum in the first 10 pages? Well that was easy!

I'm kind of surprised Reck and Puppy are such wallpaper this game. Not really what I was expecting from either

im lurking, mafia philosophy is kinda boring and i don't feel like inventing some strong takes so i can effortpost with the big boys

I'll tell you a secret: a lot of times when people post a lot of words it's because they have nothing to say

there's a fine line to walk between explanation and obfuscation. a lot of the previous pages falls into the latter category

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unobtrusive

unobtrustive isn't really my go to, I just have nothing to add to the masturbatory "I'm going to solve the game with this full read list" early D1 posts

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here's one: Reck saying "oh, UT is probably scum here", me saying "yeah but I'll NK you later bb" and them him saying "okay I'll leave UT alone til Day 3" is the dance we do when we're both town or both scum

lynch one of us to find out which it is!

spoiler alert:

we're both town

oh no, you have me doing self-meta. bad UT.

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here's one: Reck saying "oh, UT is probably scum here", me saying "yeah but I'll NK you later bb" and them him saying "okay I'll leave UT alone til Day 3" is the dance we do when we're both town or both scum

lynch one of us to find out which it is!

spoiler alert:

we're both town

oh no, you have me doing self-meta. bad UT.

meta is fucking garbage

now you're def scum

Get a room.

can't. we don't have a PT like you do

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I'm having a hard time finding anything to focus on in this game. Can someone offer me some direction in terms of post to read that are especially scummy (inb4 this post). I want to contribute but every time I start reading my eyes cross and I lose consciousness. I just don't even really know where to start

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I also suspect UT. I don't like his "i dont know how to read this game" post or any of his other contributions.

I also suspect UT. I don't like his "i dont know how to read this game" post or any of his other contributions.

I lightly townread UT.

these posts are equally bullshit but I like ABR and Auro for town so shrug city population me.

I'm having a hard time finding anything to focus on in this game. Can someone offer me some direction in terms of post to read that are especially scummy (inb4 this post). I want to contribute but every time I start reading my eyes cross and I lose consciousness. I just don't even really know where to start

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the starbuck/blair dispute, and then separately your thoughts about VP Baltar votes (both the voters and the votee).


(This is the homework I've given myself, but I haven't done it yet.)

It's a mixed bag. The frustration from their posts responding to Starbuck calling the IMOAFOIUFDOIJDLKJFD vote a "policy" vote when it plainly wasn't mirrored my own. On the other hand Blair made an awkward joke about "misspelling ianoun" like three times in a row, which feels scummy to me since I think scum is more likely to try to force a bad joke to endear themselves to other players rather than just asking for wagon support. Also, I don't think that the idea of "this is internally inconsistent" is really that good of a scum tell and feels more to me like something trying to justify a vote via a technicality rather than scumreading. "I must vote this person because they are illogical" rather than "I must vote this person because they are scum" feels like a scum move to me. additionally, Blair jumping on Starbuck for misrepresenting Blair's vote on ianaun and then turning that into a full fledged serious vote and push feels a lot less like scumhunting and more like trying to attack a person because they were annoying.

typing that out, I guess that means I find Blair scummy for this exchange on balance. huh.

Regarding VP, I think his post history is really wallflower-y. A little commenting, a little asking directionless questions, and a whole lot of not really taking a stance on anything. I like this slot for scum.

other thoughts: Llamarble I have vague memories of playing with him and his strategy of trying to arrange all of the pieces on the board and move them around in totality to explain the gamestate to himself is really weird to read and there's a lot of nonsense in there but I like the transparency and commitment to putting all his thoughts on the table so I think town.

got strong town vibes off of AGar's last two posts about and in response to Auro. I feel like a scum player would have tried to string something together in that situation.

I find Morning Tweet and Hoopla to be entirely opaque for inarticulable reasons. Anyone have some advice on figuring those slots out?

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so I think

vote VP Baltar

for now because between him and Blair, I have a no mixed feelings about that scumread whereas I do about Blair

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I think my biggest hurdle in reading Llamarble is that he makes statements like "Reck is better at tricking UT than vice versa" with complete and total confidence so it makes me wonder about the accuracy of all his assumptions that I'm less informed about

I call it "the Reddit conundrum"

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Can someone give me a breakdown of why we're seeing a VPB wagon take off with so little resistance? Because I'm not seeing anything to sway in a particular direction.

Regarding VP, I think his post history is really wallflower-y. A little commenting, a little asking directionless questions, and a whole lot of not really taking a stance on anything. I like this slot for scum.

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how in the fuck am I sheeping

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VP is town and Auro is confusing.

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

what a shock, you voted the person who called you scum

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VP is town and Auro is confusing.

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

what a shock, you voted the person who called you scum

The part where I reached into ABR's brain and made him suggest you is one of my proudest scum moments.

VP/UT/auro

????

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Although I think UT is also the type to rarely drop major towntells and therefore a d1 mislynch risk.

again, you have this tendency to say inaccurate things with the utmost confidence and it makes me question *all* of your assumptions

also two votes isn't a goddamn bandwagon.

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in other news, I don't hate the spirit of VP's post, given that 5 votes out of 17 players is statistically likely to contain scum. If he's town, I could totally see myself trying to figure things out that way. that being said I'm sticking with my initial read on him because I think it's a lot easier to fake reactions than to fake an initial attitude.

w/r/t players being inconsistent and therefore scum:
town players don't play optimally. if you say "oh, this person did a thing that is somewhat inconsistent with what they did earlier" with no context as a scumtell you're going to get a lot of false positives. what I'm saying is that unless an inconsistency shows a scum motivation, it doesn't really mean much. it's just making a process argument. it's like the Fallacy fallacy.

UT, can you tell me how your wallflower read of me is distinctly scummy from several other players in the game?

Also, how engaged do you feel in this game at this point post your larger post?

...you do understand that GC asked me specifically to look at the two things I posted about (you, Starbuck/Blair) in response to me saying "can someone give me some direction", right?

anyway, I don't know? I feel like you had more empty-calorie posting than others I looked at. I'll freely admit that basically everything before and most things after I made that big post reads as a big vortex of nonsense to me so I may be missing something. there's a lot of people in this game who post a lot of words but very little content. It's a bummer that I'm scumreading you because at least it isn't like pulling teeth to understand what you're SAYING.

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- UT's failure to play, but I agree with his statement that it's hard to find a foothold of suspicions in this game. Not sure if he was the first to articulate that, so I don't know if he's the winner of those town points. My second vote on him was because I had a really stale Starbuck vote and wanted to encourage a UT response to the hypocritical point. I agree with what UT said about town being hypocritical, so it's NAI, but what can be AI is how a player responds to being made aware of the hypocrisy. I thought I had a point worth making after reviewing UT's response, but it didn't really form well when I tried to put it into words, and so I knew it was probably a bad point and moved on.

see this is a perfect example of why this game is impenetrable word soup

- I didn't like that he didn't post enough
- I agree with him that it's hard to figure out what anything anyone is saying means
- it would be a town thing to say if he was the first person to say it, but I don't know if he was so I'll just throw up my hands in the air and ignore it
- I agree with what UT is saying about how a key argument another player was making is bullshit, but I don't think agreeing with me means anything
- I will now make an unrelated point about...uh... being called out? (I'm not really sure wtf he's saying to be honest)
- I thought I had another unrelated point to make but I actually don't so what I'm really trying to say is I'm badly in need of an editor

like... how in the fuck is anyone supposed to respond to this let alone try to UNDERSTAND it? what am I supposed to glean from this other than "I am going to put forward vague gestures at every possible alignment reading of this slot so no matter what happens I can say I was right"? Is this a town thing to do? Is it a scum thing to do? I have no idea. I'm at the point where I'm evaluating things on the axis of Annoying ---- Not Annoying rather than Town ------ Scum

and I swear to god a minimum of every other post in this game is just like this. short, declarative sentences. they're your friend. get in, make your point, get out. just making this post I've seen somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 new posts when I've hit preview. it's a game, not a fucking homework assignment. it's day fucking one guys. there's seriously not that much to talk about. for a lot of you I think you're just writing to see your avatar next to a bunch of words.

PEdit

you need to do your own homework. I've given you the link to look over

lol

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lol, u mad?

furious. I am literally quaking with hot sexy rage because you wrote some words that I found vaguely annoying. how dare you be hard to read. I demand to see your manager.

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this would be an excellent opportunity for you to clarify what you were saying in the post I quoted. maybe correct me if I interpreted it incorrectly. I dunno.

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we've got a week left, that's plenty of time for me to do an iso or two and for other players to try other wagons. why do we have to accept these two wagons, what's the rush?

i would say try and be and more succinct, but really the best solution is to just get on with lynching someone so day 1 doesn't become an unreadable tome that nobody wants to analyse on later days. we haven't even got a claim yet. less waffling, more killing.

not to be that guy, but you're basically responding to the post where Hoopla explained why she thinks that.

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Stating willingness to hammer unless his claim gives me a reason not to

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I'll be happy when VP Baltar is put to L-1 and claims.

But you could do that and aren’t.

This doesn’t seem strange to anyone but me, huh?

Yeah it's weird but like... I think ABR gets fixated on things and does non optimal things in the pursuit of cultivating a certain air about him that makes people not want to deal with how he behaves when you contradict him so... Probably not worth dwelling on unless you want to make it a whole thing

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I was lying to auro who I am scumreading.

this is fucking wild and solidifies my ABR townread

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uhhhh I'm just gonna

vote Auro

I feel like if VP is gonna get run up he'll also claim VT and.... well laying all my cards on that table here I'm feeling a lot less inclined to vote him after him posting more and I really really didn't like the ABR counterwagon. Seeing someone run a weird counterwagon against Auro at L-1 makes me think it might be scum.

also, I hate reading Auro posts and I don't hate reading VP posts and since I sincerely doubt I'll get NK'd I don't want to have to read more Auro posts.

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okay Auro I don't *hate* reading your posts because hate isn't a word I like to use in regard to how I feel about people who aren't fascists, what I'm saying is your posts are really long and rambling. I don't enjoy reading them because when I do read them I usually think "wow, this either could have been said in a lot fewer words or didn't need to be said again because he's already said this".

I just don't want you to think I dislike you personally or something

UT's progression on me is the scummiest.

*shrug*

if I was wrong, I was wrong. it happens.

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"why don't we talk more, why don't we talk more, why don't we ask the mod questions about setup that won't actually ANSWER anything real"

what, do you think the scum is going to say "oh, some pressure. guess you caught me and I will now claim scum"? Like at a certain point you just have to go for it, and I've found that the longer you let your D1 go, the less likely you are to actually hit that scum. you end up going with secondary and tertiary compromises. it sucks and doesn't hit scum.

if I made a mistake in voting Auro, fine. I stand by it. you're gonna make mistakes when you don't have the benefit of knowing everyone's alignment

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you're playing with veterans who share a

CULT META

while you shitpost and theorycraft, what did you think was going to happen?

FTFY

Vi I swear to Christ if there's a cult twist I'm going to fucking ban you

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Who cares?

Tell me I'm wrong. That L-1/hammer was atrocious. We had a plan (I thought?) and it was crumpled up and thrown in the garbage.

the plan was to have extra time up our sleeve as insurance in case we got an obvtown claim, and we needed to start a wagon from scratch.

could we have talked about this one longer? sure. but sometimes towns just need to take the game by the scruff of the neck, and not shy away from actually dealing justice.

enough people suspected him or had him null. lets not lose sleep over losing a (probable) VT. this lynch will yield good information.

Shh don't let actual reading comprehension get in the way of absolute paste eating bullshit

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It's neat how Auro is just kinda shitposting and complaining about getting voted instead of providing final reads or arguments or whatever

I guess why stop now

Pedit: I dunno porky I'm probably agreeing with the person I quoted who is correcting someone else for misrepresenting recent events but who's to say really

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Hmm good point. I guess there's been more than I thought. Shows me not to read stuff on my phone. I have a tendency to glaze over.

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Gamma. We are here with reck and we are all town. It will be glorious.

vote Blair

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That counter push on ABR was possibly the worst thing I have ever seen in a mafia game.

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we'll see
as a heads-up I'm voting Blair for literally nothing more than "she doesn't look very town yet and she smoked me last game" so if you have an actual reason to think she's scum that'd be cool to hear

if you're still reading the game, I'd prefer if you form your own opinions based on your reading than have me affect them with my own analysis

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Too dumb for a porkers-scum to do.

(He’s still obvtown in my opinion.)

my dude he was pitching a fucking fit because ABR wasn't voting VP anymore and was instead voting Auro

Mornin’

Well sorry for quick hammering, I shouldn’t have played so selfishly. I regretted it pretty immediately and sweated bullets all night actually I had a nightmare about it. When auto flipped I was so relieved.

Gamma’s here holy shit now the party can start

I like the analysis going on.

I also find it scummy when players defend others on meta for no apparent reason but on the other hand I would NEVER defend a mafia partner so obviously on day one. I’m not MT though so, maybe?

Starbucks vote on me doesn’t line up with her suspicion of MT being scum and calling me obvtown.

The ABR counterwagon was for great justice and brilliant and I’ll hear nothing to the contrary. For the record those who jumped on it should be kept an eye on just like auro said...wait

Sooooo for all those folks on the VPB wagon, what do you think now?

no. you're on thin fuckin ice guy

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unvote

I'm not going to vote Porkens right now because I don't want the day to end but consider my vote on him spiritually

I'd reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally like it if we could hold off on the actual execution until Gamma has read up etc

gamma is one of my favorite people and I'd like to actually play part of a game with him because one of us keeps dying in games were in together and it's frustrating

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Between Porkens/farside atm I'd definitely vote farside.

okay I'll spoiler it for you Porkens hardpushed a counterwagon to the flipped scum (Auro) on the flipped town (ABR) when Auro was at L-1

Auro and Blair declared that my putting the now-flipped scum (Auro) at L-2 was bad and I was therefore scum. my analysis was that Auro was likely scum *because* of the attempted counterwagon on ABR and I was very incredibly right about both of their alignments so yeah that pile of slots sucks real hard and all should be 100% marked for death and they can kiss my grits

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Between Porkens/farside atm I'd definitely vote farside.

okay I'll spoiler it for you Porkens hardpushed a counterwagon to the flipped scum (Auro) on the flipped town (ABR) when Auro was at L-1

Auro and Blair declared that my putting the now-flipped scum (Auro) at L-2 was bad and I was therefore scum. my analysis was that Auro was likely scum *because* of the attempted counterwagon on ABR and I was very incredibly right about both of their alignments so yeah that pile of slots sucks real hard and all should be 100% marked for death and they can kiss my grits

I want to understand. Why do you think my stated motivation for hard pushing the wagon on ABR?

man you look so catastrophically bad here after those two flips that I want to say it's so that you could point at that and say "why would I do something that makes me look so catastrophically bad?"

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like, I don't know if scum have daytalk here, but after seeing Auro be so weird and full of himself it makes me wonder if it was some bizarre contrivance he came up with because it would be a "big play" and you went along with it because you wanted to do something splashy

I don't know

I'm just calling it like I see it, and what I see is you tried to force a counterwagon to a flipped scum

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I believe I had something for this

I'll tell you a secret: a lot of times when people post a lot of words it's because they have nothing to say

there's a fine line to walk between explanation and obfuscation.

let's compare

Spoiler: my version of events

Porkens hardpushed a counterwagon to the flipped scum (Auro) on the flipped town (ABR) when Auro was at L-1

Auro and Blair declared that my putting the now-flipped scum (Auro) at L-2 was bad and I was therefore scum. my analysis was that Auro was likely scum *because* of the attempted counterwagon on ABR and I was very incredibly right about both of their alignments

Spoiler: your version of events

Ok, that’s awesome Hoopla. I’m really impressed by the statistical analysis you’ve done it’s inspiring and your analysis of the wagon is, I feel, very much in the right direction.

Im willing to trust starbuck if she has a good reason for not outing the info yesterday. Otherwise I’m scared of losing 4 townies.

I think what I need to do here is be brutally honest about my lived experience. I think that if I can spew enough of my own truth it will be clear that I’m not scum here. It’s going to be embarrassing for me, but here goes.

I started playing mafia scum I. 2008 with my IrL friend spyrex. You know him. He quickly became really, really good at forum mafia. He’s like that in all games. Tactical, game breaking strategist who figures it out theee steps before I could. That made me feel really inferior to him in mafia. Because of his skill, he was quick to make really good friends here too. I didn’t. I wasn’t good at reading for scum and I couldn’t follow mechanics and I was constantly being called a shit player when I was really trying, and that sucked. I’m not a dumb person, but for whatever reason mafia doesn’t click for me the same way it does for people like spyrex. This made me feel pretty diminished, and I quit. Now I think spyrex is a great guy with a good heart, and I don’t lay any of this on him - it’s me, but that’s his part in this story. And here’s the part that hurts: I was jealous. I wanted to show him I was as good, smart, skilled and I tried to take him on in a couple games, but he knew he had so much clout he could flip it on me no matter what, and he did, and it made me mad.

So I took a long break and came back some years later to try playing again. I wanted to become a better player, and I tried to learn. I had a little success; my win rate was a little better, but what I found was that I still couldn’t play the way most really good players do. I can’t analyze a wagon or line up lynches. I have a hard time seeing players working together or distancing. What I did find that worked was making a jackass out of myself, spouting off with random theories, lolhammering, and seeing who jumped on my wagon. Eventually, this became part of my reputation. I also started reading the game almost peitou emotionally and tonally. Focusing on how someone writes rather than what they wright. And sometimes I fucking nail it, and hit the scumteam early on. Unfortunately that doesn’t do much for my ego because the best players still call it shit meta. Which I alnowledge it is.

Another feature of this time in my mafia career was new superstars. Radient Cowbells, mastina, Others, and some of the players in this game to name a few. These people could fool others as scum, and catch the scum as town. I was so intimidated and jealous of these players that I would go after them I games sometimes, trying to prove I was just as good. But I wasn’t. They played layers of games while I was stuck at the very surface. I have tried to play like that, but I can only do it for very short bursts before my confidence shatters and I revert back to “clinically insane” porkens. Sometimes I post in pink text as another voice from my head

(which I am, and it’s my head not his)

and sometimes I just pick a theory and run with it no matter how unlikely it is, ESPECIALLY if it’s against one of these really good players. And you know what? It kind of worked. I had a better record as both maf and town in that era. I couldn’t be a great mafia player, but I could play a character, and sometimes that was good enough to win and have fun. I think of it as pro wrestling. It’s all a work until it’s a shoot, it afterwards it’s can all be a work again. So I had some success but I still wasn’t what I wanted to be, I still wasn’t ever going to win a scummy.

So now I come back in 2020. I decided to play again when farside came back and I was like hell yeah. Now I’m having a good time, got a good win rate, makin some friends, seeing some old faces, and this game show up and I’m like “hell yeah” again. Let’s see if I can make a good showing. (Stop laughing)

Like I said before Albert made a fool of me in our last game together. Then he started doing funny business in this game with the VP wagon. I got a theory in my head and went full bore on it. None of you would even acknowledge what he was doing was in any way scummy, or explain it to me, and I got pissssed offfff. All those feelings of being out of the cool kids club and being shit at the game came flooding back. Everyone knows what alberts doing except me. I don’t get it because I’m the shit player, the dumb one. This is how I felt. Albert can say “I’m never lynched day one because I’m so strong” and that makes him sound town. God damn it just makes me so JEALOUS. So, taking that emotion, and trying to get some agency in the game and maybe accomplish something g with my tiny insignificant self, I vote for Albert. I don’t want to fall for his shit, I don’t want to cower before his strength, I don’t understand his gambit and god damn it I’m not going to be bullied or cajoled into following it and I’m sure as hell not going to be ignored.

I had moments of lucidity in this rage haze. I thought “well if Albert is town and I let myself throw this shit fit, maybe scum will reveal themselves somehow. When Blair and CLAP got on the wagon I said “there’s one” and “that’s two”. In my head I said “there’s one scu” and “there’s two scum”. Now at this point I knew there was no way Albert was getting lynched and I was just being petulant, but since I was already so ramped up I figured I could maybe use that pestilance to some good. Play the part, work the scum, pro wrestle it. But simultaneously I’m still thinking if Albert is scum I’m not going to be tricked and I’m stating it now so I look smart after the game

not kidding in many cases this is what he cares about most!

So this brings me to the hammer. I hammered because...sigh...I wanted to have done something meaningful in the game. I wanted something to be about me instead of about Albert. I wanted to be the center of attention. I also thought it might Cause some ripples that someone, maybe even me, could see scum standing out in. Sadly, once I realized I was fulfilling everyone’s worst expectations of me, I felt terrible. I reread the votecou t and missed tripods in-line vote, which made me think “oh god I didn’t really hammer that’s great now it looks like an epic fake hammer and we can get some reactions and everyone with think I planned it and I’ll look smart and good at the game” . This is where most of the banter post hammer took place. I actually thought that others were in on it and playing along, really meme of it up with me. Then when things quieted down I counted again and realized no..Tripod voted in his paragraph...jokes on me. When auro flipped, I was so grateful not to have fucked it up. I dumbhammered, but at least it was scum. If he was town I would feel 1000% worse. But he wasn’t he was scum. And a scum tracker at that. Too bad I didn’t have anything to do with it other than fucking in the last 6 possible days of discussion. And make me an easy lynch.

Well. I think that’s about it.

oh my

______________________________

Porkens taking this long to vote for farside after Starbuck said "I have mod information that says it's 50/50 you or farside" certainly isn't doing much to lessen my scumread on his slot

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WHY though

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maybe the team is auro/starbuck/farside/porkens

that'd be spicy

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It is absolutely blowing my mind that you all are passing on the people on yesterday's LITERAL LAST DITCH COUNTERWAGON TO SCUM to focus on farside who did... I don't know... vaguely something???

what in the fuck is happening right now

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yeah yeah I'll read up and possibly hammer

be very afraid, farside

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okay I read farside's ISO, and I don't see anything in it that is anywhere near as damning as pushing a last-ditch counterwagon to the flipped scum. I don't see anything particularly great though, and particularly her scumread of Auro reads as very just-so. I also didn't like the fact that she kept swapping Auro between her vote and middle-of-the-pack in her scumreads. it's really weird to me that a vote she kept harping on wasn't one of her listed top scumreads.

intent to hammer

if anyone has any info that want to give us before we go to night post it in the next few hours because call me MC cuz it's hammer time babyyyyyyyyy

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Get in nerd we're lynching farside

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Err no we're not

We're BURNINATING

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===============[]

I see you shiver... with antici-

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-pation

damn you reck. that worked out pretty well though because it got an extra person to commit to the wagon so.

farewell sweet porkens. why did you have to do such a dumb thing.

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so do you think the ABR counterwagon was all town?

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CLAP or Gamma

this tbh

what happened to you coming after me today

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i can read CLAP's iso and point out posts that feel weird to me if u want

I'd appreciate that given you stole my thunder on hammering a scum

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iamausername also needs more scrutiny.

who feels like impressing me by investigating his slot? BIG town points on offer to any intrepid reporter.

so having reread the slot, during day 1 they started on the two currently flipped scum slots with a scumread of Auro for basically posting a shitton without saying anything

in fact UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: Auro

how can it be that he has posted six full length novels in this thread and i still have no idea why he is voting GC?

and also said that farside was town for seeming "genuine"

farside - the questions she has been asking feel like genuine efforts to try to get reads on people.

iam talks themselves out of an auro vote here

UNVOTE: Auro
VOTE: VP Baltar

lost my taste for the Auro wagon right around this post.

in other news, AGar has now thoroughly ingratiated himself into my town reads - can't imagine this post coming from scum - there are clear benefits for scum to not alerting everyone to the source of the misunderstanding, pretty much regardless of Blair/Starbuck alignments.

given that he had established suspicion of VP early, this feels like a natural progression to me. it's weak as hell and a chainsaw of a scumbuddy, but being wrong is not in and of itself a scumtell and this one doesn't exactly come out of nowhere.

so this next post bothers me a lot

still here, still prefer VPB but it's not like i'm super sold on Auro as town (or on VPB as scum for that matter) and i mostly just want this day to be over with.

my reads look like this now.

confident townreads:
1) AGar
6) farside22
8) Hoopla
13) Porkens
14) Starbuck

less confident townreads:
2) Albert B. Rampage
3) Auro
7) Green Crayons
10) Kmd4390
11) Llamarble
12) Morning Tweet
15) Untrod Tripod
17) xRECKONERx

null reads:
4) Blair
5) CantLynchAPuppy
16) VP Baltar

mostly I can't understand just NOT HAVING any scum reads at that point. also, puts the two flipped scum in the town pile.

this posts comes on day 2

huh.

for the record, before Starbuck dropped her revelation, i was thinking a lynchpool of {Blair, Puppy, Morning Tweet, iamausername} was a very reasonable way for the day to go, following yesterday's events, with Blair being the choice from that pool that i'd be backing. i reread overnight in light of Auro's flip, and Blair very much comes off as scum expecting the day to drift inexorably to a VP Baltar lynch and panicking when ABR pulled the rug out from under her.

but with a lynchpool of {Porkens, farside, Starbuck} i don't know where to go, because all of them read as town to me, before and after the flip. if i had to pick right now i'd probably vote farside because i remember less clearly

why

i thought she was town, but i'm gonna isoread the three of them first.

I don't like it because the prescriptive nature of "oh, I guess I'm a reasonable lynch" seems.... vaguely scummy to me. I don't know, a big mea culpa where none was really warranted and no pressure was on him. assuming scumreads on yourself feels scummy to me.

also, I really don't like the flip on farside given she was in his strongest townread pile, especially given the "oh I don't know why I was townreading this". I don't get having a strong townread with no actual reason. feels like post hoc reasoning.

because farside claiming a VT with pro-scum information seems like a bad scum strategy

so does claiming VT when you are in fact a mafia tracker, and yet here we are

this post struck me as *extremely* scummy at the time but I didn't want to say anything because I don't like to let scum know I see them.

_________________________________________


anyway, I'm in favor of yeeting iamausername

vote iamausername

[Untrod Tripod]

you mean review his iso, I'm eager to do that. I have some notes on my computer after D1.

love to see what you have to add to the post above. I found a few things just doing a quick skim. maybe we can go 3 for 3

[Untrod Tripod]

anyway if you think the revelation will give us an edge in catching scum, share it

or don't

ultimately it's up to you and since I think you're town I trust you to do the right thing

[Untrod Tripod]

i tried to respond to VP's case as best i could yesterday. Not having scumreads is kinda normal, I didn't really townread Auro so much as wanted to defend the parts of his case that were decidedly NAI, and farside has been in my PoE past early d1 and i'd have never lynched pork before her etc etc

I gotta say

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate this defense

[Untrod Tripod]

i tried to respond to VP's case as best i could yesterday. Not having scumreads is kinda normal, I didn't really townread Auro so much as wanted to defend the parts of his case that were decidedly NAI, and farside has been in my PoE past early d1 and i'd have never lynched pork before her etc etc

I gotta say

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate this defense

me too kind of. i think if I were buddies with Auro, defending the parts of his case that are incorrect makes a lot of sense since I could do it truthfully. Unfortunately im not and it just sort of went that way and there's no good reason to townread me this game

if you hate the tldr with this much emphasis, i can't imagine how much pain the full version yesterday must have brought -- my apologies

[Untrod Tripod]

you don't suppose you could summon up this kind of energy to rustle up some scum do you?

like... legitimately what are you trying to do today?

[Untrod Tripod]

(two scum in a row!)

man i knew every time i opened the thread and didn't post i'd regret leaving more work for me to make later

gotta go through and hunt down some posts. reck's case on me reads town (i only skimmed it though), gc sheeping it feels the more scum. also i like the IAAU wagon and might park my vote there, but i kind of wwant to discuss a little more before i bring that to L-1. (two scum in a row!!!)

I didn't like reck's case

but I really don't like this post

like Natalie Imbruglia before me, I'm torn

[Untrod Tripod]

I feel like MT/user is a not unlikely scumteam here so I don't fucking care what order we do it in

[Untrod Tripod]

vote MT

[Untrod Tripod]

UT im lynching you tomorrow FYI

why

[Untrod Tripod]

I sent Vi a PM that got read about that.

Vi: can you confirm that the votecount in 1643 is accurate?

[Untrod Tripod]

vote iam

Rather do this. Especially given his post. Feels like preemptively grabbing towncred for opposing a misyeet

[Untrod Tripod]

I mean, if she's scum it was definitely not anywhere near the best implementation of the strategy of "kill 1 scum to semi-clear 1 scum and kill one town"

[Untrod Tripod]

iamausername and UT make sense from this perspective

so you think that with two scum remaining I'm going to aggressively bus my remaining buddy with basically no prompting after having ignored him the rest of the game

this is your big spicy take

[Untrod Tripod]

i can't imagine a scumteam led by some old pro like llamarble/reck would endorse that VT claim

and I'm, what, a newbie?

[Untrod Tripod]

how does me voteparking on VPB because it's a sneaky scum thing to do fit in with the fact that GC asked me to look at him, which is what led to my vote

[Untrod Tripod]

or, hear me out: I was scumreading VPB for his early posts then after he talked more I didn't scumread him anymore and I voted to lynch a scum instead

I'm gonna be honest Hoops this case of yours is lazy and full of holes

you're scumreading iam, which is fine, but opened the day by fishing for someone else to make the case on him and responded to me digging through his ISO with "oh yeah this is a good case" and voting with me. considering that he's my main suspect for today I don't really see how you can be scumreading me and also agreeing with my top scumread who you don't think I could be bussing

my interpretation is that you heard reck and KMD say they potentially want to vote me and said to yourself "I can do this dark horse push, make some colored votecounts, and say one of the uncolored names is scum for vague reasons. maybe someone else will make a case for me again"

[Untrod Tripod]

I mean

you could just read the thread

start at like page 25 though

[Untrod Tripod]

Is there any chance you'd like to share that reason with us Mr reck

I could be persuaded because I'm starting to be disillusioned with the popular wagons

[Untrod Tripod]

Meta is trash

[Untrod Tripod]

Meta is trash

Everything is the game.

[Untrod Tripod]

bluggggggggggh if I can't have a chkflip/MT yeet I think Kmd is probably second best

but I am going to be slow and grumpy about it and none of you can stop me

be the person donovan would want you to be

[Untrod Tripod]

kmd putting me and iam and hoopla all in his scum pool is an indicator that he's not really looking for the last two scum just the next acceptable yeet

I'm willing to vote kmd at this point

[Untrod Tripod]

hmm

[Untrod Tripod]

Uh I want his selections before a hammer.

[Untrod Tripod]

I feel like of the three claimed trackers, kmd is the most likely to be scum

because uh they can't all be town

[Untrod Tripod]

is there something I'm missing? I should just yeet kmd at this point right?

[Untrod Tripod]

For what it's worth I still want iamausername today

you put both of us on your scum list

do you think we could possibly be scum together?

[Untrod Tripod]

For what it's worth I still want iamausername today

you put both of us on your scum list

do you think we could possibly be scum together?

I don't know. I haven't looked into that and don't care to unless one of you flips scum.

we have two flipped scum. any scumreads you have need to fit into that analysis and at this point you really should be looking for people who look like they could be scum together slash with the flipped scum.

saying la dee dah let's wait and see is an indication that you aren't actually trying to find scum.

vote kmd

fuck this. yeet it into the sun.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ive always found myself to have too many biases when I play that way. For example say I believe you and iamausername are scum together. We lynch iamausername. He flips town. Now I wrongly believe you are town. That's why I try not to do that anymore unless something stands out on its own. The one that stood out with you is I don't believe you are scum with hoopla.

my larger point is that we aren't scum together and if town-you gave it some thought you would know this and wouldn't be trying to push us together as part of a scum list

[Untrod Tripod]

yes only a tracker can visit another player

[Untrod Tripod]

like this is absolutely wild to me because iam is someone I made a case on *today* and kmd is managing to talk me out of wanting to vote for him

[Untrod Tripod]

I've considered your yeet proposal and I like it

vote chkflip

[Untrod Tripod]

Yeah I'm pretty great

[Untrod Tripod]

Yeah I'm pretty great

still yeeting u tmw btw

So let's say hypothetically we yeet MT and they flip scum

You're going to yeet me because I'm clearly bussing all my buddies? And I didn't take the opportunity to hammer a town tracker?

[Untrod Tripod]

yup

You understand that makes no fucking sense right?

[Untrod Tripod]

I knew you'd say that

And yet I asked

[Untrod Tripod]

vote chkflip

[Untrod Tripod]

lol

[Untrod Tripod]

considering he reacted to my actual vote I'm not sure that means anything but I thought it'd be worth trying while we're waiting for mr puppy to come play with us

[Untrod Tripod]

this is the dumbest shit imaginable

CLAP is not in any position to hold the game hostage or demand information roles out their info

[Untrod Tripod]

u wanna confirm u went nowhere n2 UT?

I went to ur momma's house

[Untrod Tripod]

CLAP plz

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm vanilla town AMA

[Untrod Tripod]

it's odd that ABR would be the NK on night 1 and Porkens would be the NK on night 2 if the kills weren't dictated by the mafia



I'm really not sure what to think of this revelation. CLAP insisted that our trackers out themselves and all of their info first which all seems a little too convenient given that the revelation is hardly a slam dunk to be true. also, did CLAP ever claim a role?

PEdit: lol

[Untrod Tripod]

1) A Revelation. Some players begin the game with additional information about the game setup. All but one of these players are Town-aligned.

we know scum gets a revelation. Vi sometimes changing their target seems like a revelation scum would get.

more broadly, trackers should claim before i did because my claim changes the meaning of all track claims. if you had been in my position, you'de have seen the same thing

how does it change the meaning of their claims?

the only instance I can think of where I'd insist on all the town power roles outing themselves is if I was scum. if I knew Vi is the one making the kill, then I would say "I have a revelation that sometimes the scum kill is blocked and the mod slot makes a semi-random kill". no need to out all the town power for that.

[Untrod Tripod]

I could also, from a design standpoint, see there being an x-shot mafia role in a game based around having trackers that fakes a shot for tracker purposes and then has the mafia assign the mod slot to make a kill. just spitballing.

I guess what I'm saying is that CLAP's actions around the revelation are highly sus and it's not like they were a shining beacon of towniness otherwise.

[Untrod Tripod]

more broadly, trackers should claim before i did because my claim changes the meaning of all track claims.

Wouldn't you claiming first and keeping trackers under wraps equally inform them that their information might be suspect or unreliable?

I get what you're saying about trying to catch someone out targeting an early game NK choice, but seems like an imbalance in the information trade

it's almost as if the goal wasn't to provide information to the town to help us win the game

[Untrod Tripod]

Also those tracker results are all highly suspect.

Which ones and why.

I mean, the chances of two trackers both tracking me and the other trackers tracking each other to form a perfect confirmation loop just seems way too serendipitous

they can't all be scum so... what's suspicious explanation assuming at least two are town?

[Untrod Tripod]

what are we even calling lylo now

YOLO obviously

[Untrod Tripod]

@Vi

- Do revelations flip alongside our roles or are they considered separate (i.e. If someone with a revelation dies does their revelation show up in their role flip)?

1) A Revelation. Some players begin the game with additional information about the game setup. All but one of these players are Town-aligned. Players that have additional information are not considered power roles and will not flip differently from how they otherwise would.

my guess would be no

[Untrod Tripod]

that's fine, vote me then.

also only one scum has a revelation and farside flipped scum so...

I don't believe that you believe this was a valid argument.

which part are you disputing?

[Untrod Tripod]

reck, I think you're just still salty about getting blindsided by me being a charismatic bus driver a couple of times

yes scum would take credit for making correct plays but like... they'd be looking for credit for it because it's good moves for town to make. I think it's 100% your paranoia talking here

[Untrod Tripod]

Getting caught up a bit - hadn't sat down since Sunday.

2165 - If the kill is what Vi handles, why did you ebwop "kill" to "skill" as part of the crumb? Why are you sure in 2169 that we wouldn't get guilties? Wouldn't, based on what Vi's answered and what we know, at least we see whichever mafia was carrying out the kill visit Vi?

it's odd that ABR would be the NK on night 1 and Porkens would be the NK on night 2 if the kills weren't dictated by the mafia

THIS.

Re, 2179 - I was well aware that Gamma

could

have been mafia even if he wasn't carrying out the kill - we knew there were 2 anti-town players left and there's no indication of multiball. Your revelation doesn't suddenly mean we all don't have a lack of any common sense.

2186 is a bad post, brought to you by bad gamesense.

2245 is Y I K E S, dawg.

Someone spell out to me why CLAP's information is definitely to have come from town? Like, all I've seen is confusion and a strange insistence that their information needed the results first that still doesn't track with the information that's been given.

I think I've been extremely clear that I too think it's suspicious af

[Untrod Tripod]

UT you're up.

I'm vanilla town AMA

RTFT

[Untrod Tripod]

I straight up don't believe that Vi is doing kills every night and that the kills aren't at least partially scum directed

[Untrod Tripod]

man imagine reading through this whole slog of mechanical bullshit and coming to the conclusion that the one person who you need to yeet is one of the ONLY slots who won't clear anything up by flipping as either alignment

that's a real commitment to not solving the game

[Untrod Tripod]

man imagine reading through this whole slog of mechanical bullshit and coming to the conclusion that the one person who you need to yeet is one of the ONLY slots who won't clear anything up by flipping as either alignment

that's a real commitment to not solving the game

and while I'm here YOU

Who do you actually want dead today

If it's Puppy you should probably vote him unless him being confirmed as telling the truth about Vi doing the kills makes him nigh impossible to be scum in your eyes, he's got

no

one votes on him and waiting to have three trackers on Vi to confirm something that wouldn't even convince you of his alignment sure seems dumb to me

If it's not then either say what you're thinking or put in the effort to decide on who's most likely scum now that said mechanical bullshit is being taken care of

the problem here is that I don't know what to do. I kind of feel like the play today is to yeet not-a-claimed-tracker and frankly I find CLAP's revelation preposterous and the way that they approached claiming it as extremely suspicious. Honestly I think that purely from an information standpoint we get rid of that slot today just so we know if we can trust the claimed revelation or not. That way our trackers don't waste a night of tracking the mod if they don't need to. frankly the only reason to track the mod in the first place is to establish whether or not the claimed revelation is true. if we can establish that in a way other than spending a bunch of tracker actions then that's great. the trackers can be used to keep each other accountable for where they went at night and we can figure out that scum is within them by tracking them to a kill or we can yeet outside of the trackers.

either way I think yeeting CLAP is a plus from the information standpoint and their actions around claiming their revelation are highly suspicious. I especially hated that they said "ah, but you see, I couldn't have done it any other way" when that's just plainly not true. Besides, as I've said I don't believe the revelation as claimed. yeet all liars etc.

Reck I'm a little puzzled by his thing w/r/t his revelation but it's whatever. he's been quiet on day play but that tracks if his goal is to stay alive as long as possible so I don't care.

I had suspicions about Blair earlier, but I think that it's a much more pressing matter to yeet pups

vote CLAP

[Untrod Tripod]

either way I think yeeting CLAP is a plus from the information standpoint and their actions around claiming their revelation are highly suspicious. I especially hated that they said "ah, but you see, I couldn't have done it any other way" when that's just plainly not true. Besides, as I've said I don't believe the revelation as claimed. yeet all liars etc.

"i don't believe puppy is telling the truth. also, we shouldn't use our nightactions to verify if puppy is telling the truth. we HAVE to get puppy. also, puppy is scummy for believing that there was only one way to handle events."

yep, im ready to OMGUS

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

I'm not engaging with this past this post. it will get ad hom very quickly.

purely from an information standpoint we get rid of that slot today just so we know if we can trust the claimed revelation or not. That way our trackers don't waste a night of tracking the mod if they don't need to. frankly the only reason to track the mod in the first place is to establish whether or not the claimed revelation is true. if we can establish that in a way other than spending a bunch of tracker actions then that's great. the trackers can be used to keep each other accountable for where they went at night and we can figure out that scum is within them by tracking them to a kill or we can yeet outside of the trackers

extremely not what I said. CLAP has decided to construct a strawman and fight with that. again, yeeting them is the best way to verify the very sketchy information and will in all likelihood allow our trackers to put their powers to a use other than verifying a revelation claim.

[Untrod Tripod]

Puppy's info is confirmable by tracking Vi

you do realize that "Vi is sometimes able to be tracked to a kill" is not the same thing as "the mod is randomly selecting a person to be killed sometimes and mafia has no control over it"

tracking the moderator to a kill WILL NOT CONFIRM the part of the information that's in question, which is that the mafia has no control over the nightkill

[Untrod Tripod]

tracking the moderator to a kill WILL NOT CONFIRM the part of the information that's in question, which is that the mafia has no control over the nightkill

10 pages of mech spec and i think this is the first reasonable conspiracy theory anyone's made: that moderator is making the kills but scum is still selecting them

ok, that would kind of be brilliant if i was scum fakeclaiming, it's kind of plausible, granted. in this universe, though, wouldn't trackers still be basically worthless? all they could do is mechanically confirm, "yep, vi is the one carrying kills". so why would it be important that trackers are free to track whoever they want, when none of those tracks will ever mean anything?

I said it days ago. I've been suspicious of the claim from the beginning on that basis.

I could also, from a design standpoint, see there being an x-shot mafia role in a game based around having trackers that fakes a shot for tracker purposes and then has the mafia assign the mod slot to make a kill. just spitballing.

I guess what I'm saying is that CLAP's actions around the revelation are highly sus and it's not like they were a shining beacon of towniness otherwise.

anyway, I'm supposed to believe that partially useless trackers makes less sense than

the mafia doesn't control the nightkill

?

[Untrod Tripod]

reck, if you want to yeet me for being a dick stop playing around and fucking do it

[Untrod Tripod]

fuck, yeet. i want to yeet vi.

like imagine if yeeting vi removes the kill redirect and we now have a fucking army of trackers to unleash on the last scum

~Vote Count XXX:

Mod Picturebox set to "Cuteposting"

Vi (R-6)

~

(Gammagooey, Blair, xRECKONERx)

Not Roasting:

AGar,

(Blair,)

CantLynchAPuppy, Green Crayons, Hoopla, Kmd4390,

(Gammagooey,)

Starbuck, Untrod Tripod, VP Baltar,

(xRECKONERx,)

Gammagooey, Blair, xRECKONERx

-Votes cast for entities not explicitly enumerated in the topic post will not be counted.

--With 11 alive, it will take 6 votes to roast a player.
--Deadline is at 21:00 on Wednesday, 22 July 2020.

(10 days left)

sorry babe it's not in the cards

[Untrod Tripod]

what's my scum motivation for lying about this btw?

because it completely nullifies the trackers as an information tool? is this question a fucking joke?

- yeet vi

you. cannot. yeet. the. mod.

i refuse to believe that

so... you don't believe the claimed revelation either?

[Untrod Tripod]

but blair why have a ninja if the mod is performing the kills

PEdit: For the I don't know, millionth time, tracking the mod to a kill DOES NOT PROVE the central issue I have with the claim, which is that mafia has no control over the kills

[Untrod Tripod]

LIKES RANDOM / VI KILLS:
* Puppy

WANTS TO KNOW IF THERE'S A WAY OUT OF THIS:
* Reck
*UT

[Untrod Tripod]

I would assume, based on the construction of the sentence, that it should have been

"I don't want to out them unless"

tell me again why this behavior is more likely to come from town than scum, because the piecemeal "you get to know what I know when I deem it appropriate if you beg me" nature of this reveal is.... not very pro town

[Untrod Tripod]

plus I don't understand why the town player wouldn't smash that button IMMEDIATELY

[Untrod Tripod]

plus I don't understand why the town player wouldn't smash that button IMMEDIATELY

it says calamity trigger on it, it sounds very spooky

(I'm actually mostly serious about it sounding spooky and really doubt it's a "fix the game for town" button if Puppy is town but yeah Puppy should have claimed this shit last game day instead of drawing this out to ridiculous lengths)

so you think that the town player's role PM says "you have a calamity trigger. you don't know what it does"?

[Untrod Tripod]

until Puppy finshes saying everything he should have said already

it's really straining credulity to me that this keeps happening and you are just shrugging at it. several people, you included, are wagging your fingers at me for pointing out that this sort of thing benefits scum and does not benefit town. I keep saying how bad it is that CLAP thinks playing peekaboo info with the town, demanding that town power roles out themselves and then NOT REVEALING ALL OF THEIR INFO, then later revealing more info, then saying oh tee hee there's actually more and then anoooooooother hidden thing that I'll say if people really want to hear it and you're just shrugging at it as they keep saying but wait there's more.

I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy pills.

[Untrod Tripod]

If you're committed to misyeeting, I'm just a VT so feel free.

[Untrod Tripod]

it is blowing my fucking mind right now that anyone is saying "let's just let this army of trackers be completely useless"

[Untrod Tripod]

it is blowing my fucking mind right now that anyone is saying "let's just let this army of trackers be completely useless"

Well yeah, I agree with that. You have to admit though, there is a potential risk, regardless of what you think puppy's alignment is.

And it's even harder if you're asking people who think he is town to just policy yeet him for *fingers crossed*

and you just not bothered at all by the behavior around the four separate installments of claiming this information?

[Untrod Tripod]

I don't know, kmd, I think a better question would be why would town try to out all of the information roles?

I don't think CLAP thinks that they'll get yeeted. Additionally I do think that they were genuinely surprised that people didn't want random nightkills. Also the fact that the information has come out piecemeal after seeing how people reacted to every previous piece of information looks extremely sketchy to me. If I'm town with that role as claimed, I claim it in my first post. If I'm scum with that role.... I might do it the way that it was done. For me, so much of the behavior around the claim screams scum to me and I'm having a really hard time shaking that fact. I know I was talking about the fact earlier in the game that town doesn't always play optimally, but sometimes people do things that benefit scum because... they're scum.

Like, regardless of their alignment do you disagree that it's a net positive for town for the trackers to be able to catch scum? What do you think the benefit is of leaving that role up?

[Untrod Tripod]

yeah I specifically said regardless of alignment for a reason

[Untrod Tripod]

Boy, UT is really not gonna like when I get to the 5th paragraph of my role PM huh

I can't stay mad at you

I apologise if I'm coming off as being mad at you personally. It isn't my intention

[Untrod Tripod]

but his stated read on Puppy really hasn't felt like it's had any conviction behind it

it reads to me like he's just sorta claiming suspicion for the person he thinks is the most likely to be yeeted

[Untrod Tripod]

fine let's go

vote kmd

[Untrod Tripod]

I don't know if kmd has RL things going on, so I don't want to speculate that he's avoiding the thread. We have 3 days to deadline so can we at least give him another 24 hours to say things? I'm not sure what else he could have to say but it can't hurt to wait.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT looks pretty bad on reread of yesterday. Someone tell me why the solve isn't just UT?

so you're just going to ignore that kmd was pushing me when it looked like it was going to be either me or someone else?

anyway it doesn't really matter if you yeet me today because I'm a VT so go for it?

it's also AWFULLY CONVENIENT that the RaNdoM sCuM KiLL was on a pretty much 100% agreed upon town player

the issue I had was never that the mod slot was committing the kills, but that they're randomly determined. I feel like I'm saying this into a void because everyone just keeps fucking ignoring it

[Untrod Tripod]

the burden of proof is on the person making the claim

[Untrod Tripod]

does anyone actually believe that these kills are random? if you don't believe that, does it not concern you that the claim as stated is at least partially a lie?

vote CLAP

[Untrod Tripod]

Which part of his claim is a lie?

1) scum make the kill
2) that kill is automatically blocked
3) vi makes a new kill instead.

it may or may not be the same target.

ambiguities:

* im not sure whether scum know this is happening. they must have figured out by now that something's up? not sure if they knew this all along or not.
* im not sure how vi is selecting the kill. i thought this was random, but my PM doesn't say that, no explanation is given, Vi could just be killing off her favorites or going in some pre-set order

for the nth time: it strains credulity to claim that these nightkills could have been assigned randomly. three of the four were on almost universally agreed-upon town players, one of whom had been virtually confirmed as town the day immediately preceding the kill. there's just no way.

my tinfoil hat theory is that CLAP's role is either an enabler who allows the factional mafia kill to go through Vi, or that role is a ninja variant that directs those kills.

[Untrod Tripod]

vote: UT

While I can agree that 3/4 kills benefits scum, I have a harder time believing that puppy was that far out there in a gambit

What are you gonna do after Reck and I flip town?

[Untrod Tripod]

clap never actually claimed they were

_____________________

Spoiler: Here's a bunch of relevant quotes. I just did a search for "random"

Puppy why did you crumb the kills are random only to later say they are mod chosen? Your role PM makes it clear it's mod pick and not a dice roll or something?

i mis assumed. my role PM doesn't state how vi selects a kill, so i assumed it was random, but later i realized that

vi could just be killing whoever she feels like would balance the game out

(this is the part i think is controversial and actually ive been laughing about it all game)

ok, so it works like this:

1) scum make the kill
2) that kill is automatically blocked
3)

vi makes a new kill instead. it may or may not be the same target

.

ambiguities:

* im not sure whether scum know this is happening. they must have figured out by now that something's up? not sure if they knew this all along or not.
*

im not sure how vi is selecting the kill. i thought this was random, but my PM doesn't say that, no explanation is given, Vi could just be killing off her favorites or going in some pre-set order

Puppy why did you crumb the kills are random only to later say they are mod chosen? Your role PM makes it clear it's mod pick and not a dice roll or something?

i mis assumed. my role PM doesn't state how vi selects a kill, so i assumed it was random, but later i realized that vi could just be killing whoever she feels like would balance the game out (this is the part i think is controversial and actually ive been laughing about it all game)

no? because they've all been selected by vi

the fact that ABR and Porkens died makes me think the kills aren't random, because they look like the kills scum should have made all along. if vi is making kills on her own so that she can keep the game balanced, her first kills would have looked like scum kills IMO. but it's possible scum really tried to kill VPB or starbuck instead. ABR -> Porkens is too perfect to have been done by dice rolls IMO (this is when I decided my breadcrumb was wrong). IIAU looks like a pure Vi kill, I don't think scum targets someone in the POE, but FMPOV it doesn't matter since i know all the kills are Vi's selection

i wasn't worried about it because i decided Vi wasn't making random kills and would want me to make my full claim

@Puppy

- Does your revelation say that

Vi

blocks the Mafia's submitted kill or that it just

is

blocked (passively)? In other words, based on the wording of your revelation, do you believe the submitted kills would still be blocked if we eliminated Vi?

without quoting directly: i think the scum kill is magically blocked, where the new kill is actively submitted by vi

i don't think lynching vi will do anything. my role implies that there is a way to stop the random nightkills, but i think they're good for town and i don't want to speculate on what would do it. (this is why i was worried scum might know something and didn't want to say too much)

i think they're good for town

How so? Isn't the randomness what is neutering tracking power?

"random" kills are likely to kill in our POE. scum kills won't kill in our POE, and we don't know whether scum have any roles / revelations that would nerf trackers

2) vi clearly designed the setup around this, scum has to have a way to fight back. auro was a tracker so there was at least one, maybe 2 scum who could claim in the tracker group. and any kills could be explained away with some other claim because of the random kill mechanic. but no one is stepping up with an alibi about whey they have to make visits. scum probably have a role or a revelation that would help them here

tracking the moderator to a kill WILL NOT CONFIRM the part of the information that's in question, which is that the mafia has no control over the nightkill

10 pages of mech spec and i think this is the first reasonable conspiracy theory anyone's made: that moderator is making the kills but scum is still selecting them

ok, that would kind of be brilliant if i was scum fakeclaiming, it's kind of plausible, granted. in this universe, though, wouldn't trackers still be basically worthless? all they could do is mechanically confirm, "yep, vi is the one carrying kills". so why would it be important that trackers are free to track whoever they want, when none of those tracks will ever mean anything?

i think Vi having nightkill choice is enough to make the game swingy. though again the wording in my PM is not clear here, i want to emphasize that. it says something like scum makes the kill, then it gets blocked and vi selects a new kill which may or may not be the same kill. that's why i assumed random kill until ABR and Porkens died.

and i kinda said before, i think there is a way to end this mechanic, but im just speculating on what's given in my PM. i don't really want to speculate out loud, unless there's a clear town consensus that we need to end this. i think random kills are good for town, because they can kill in our POE, and we don't know if scum has anything else that could nerf trackers. but if town is pretty unanimous that im wrong here ill play along

we don't know that it's random though. that's the whole point? vi could be selecting the same kills, or different kills, or any number of things.
plus even if it is purely random i will take having a bunch of trackers to lock people into claims over a dice roll on kills

ok, let's do a little informal vote here:

LIKES RANDOM / VI KILLS:
* Puppy

ending to random kills seems like a bad idea IMO. shrug

all you have to do is kill me and the kill mechanic stops. that's it. if that's what you want to do i won't stop you but i'm not going to self-vote, which feels like voiding my wincon

"scum don't control their own kill until you die" this seems like pretty obviously something you don't just up and claim, flame me in the postgame if you disagree

__________________________

Several things:

1. I don't understand the focus by people in this game on breadcrumbing. Breadcrumbing doesn't prove a damn thing. Anyone can breadcrumb anything. It doesn't make them town.
2. I don't really see a huge difference between "Scum are not selecting the kills, Vi is selecting the kills" and "Kills are random" from my point of view. All it really means to me is that the information roles on my side of the game cannot catch the scum with their abilities.
3. There's a little bit of discrepancy between what CLAP was calling the kills with just referring to them as "random" later in the game, but I assume that it was for the sake of concision. That's probably why I got fixated on the word "random", since it showed up in the most recent posts.
4. I do, however, find it odd that after all of that flailing around making sure we understood that they weren't "random" CLAP was calling them random
5. Considering that the claimed role name is "Calamity Trigger", seeing what's in the setup so far I'm thinking that the Calamity is that the scum can't make their kills hidden through the mod and there's a shitton of town trackers.
6. I find it unlikely that the setup was 3 scum trackers and 1 scum goon so I'm of the opinion that all of the remaining trackers are town.

[Untrod Tripod]

ok, so it works like this:

1) scum make the kill
2) that kill is automatically blocked
3) vi makes a new kill instead. it may or may not be the same target.

ambiguities:

* im not sure whether scum know this is happening. they must have figured out by now that something's up? not sure if they knew this all along or not.
* im not sure how vi is selecting the kill. i thought this was random, but my PM doesn't say that, no explanation is given, Vi could just be killing off her favorites or going in some pre-set order

this post you quoted l i t e r a l ly shows that clap said up front he wasnt sure how the kills were being selected, i didnt see the "random" narrative at all

3. There's a little bit of discrepancy between what CLAP was calling the kills with just referring to them as "random" later in the game, but I assume that it was for the sake of concision. That's probably why I got fixated on the word "random", since it showed up in the most recent posts.
4. I do, however, find it odd that after all of that flailing around making sure we understood that they weren't "random" CLAP was calling them random4. I do, however, find it odd that after all of that flailing around making sure we understood that they weren't "random" CLAP was calling them random

[Untrod Tripod]

There has to be more than one Goon, right? And maybe a 3rd Mafia Tracker?

Hoopla claimed a revelation that there are 4 anti-town roles

[Untrod Tripod]

vote: UT

While I can agree that 3/4 kills benefits scum, I have a harder time believing that puppy was that far out there in a gambit

What are you gonna do after Reck and I flip town?

are you particularly confident that Reck will flip town? if so why?

lol i dunno i'm scum i chew rocks and am dumb bc all the smart town people have "POE'd" me into being scum and have correctly figured that I bussed all three of my buddies and the 2nd to last scum made a last ditch effort to get me lynched instead of himself which truly only a scum player of kmd's caliber would try to pull off

seems like you're committed to misyeeting me so, rather than answering your question I will just tell you to pound sand. it's not like anyone's going to absorb a fucking thing I say anyway.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT, have you said who you think might be scum if it isn't CLAP?

CLAP > Blair > Hoopla

not really sure what possesses you to ask, and I'm not sure what the point in my answering is because it will get completely ignored.

[Untrod Tripod]

vote UT

I'll just cut to the chase here and save us the hand wringing and then eventual hammer where one of you chucklefucks talks about POE and townblocs and how someone who was on all the scum lynches has to be scum.

I was town. good luck to the rest of my team. hopefully today was just a momentary lapse of dumbfuckery.

[Untrod Tripod]

I think the way you framed your claim as a revelation was clever, Puppy, though I imagine a very mechanically oriented scumplayer would have made short work of sorting out what was really happening.

This is what I was worried about, as I let more out and no one made the right inferences I decided not to worry about it. Scum didn't kill me so I suppose it all worked out.

I wasn't trying to give scum any help, but I was *shocked* that they never tried to target you

[Untrod Tripod]

I was stationed

tyfys

[Untrod Tripod]

hey spyrex