FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt (Game Over!)

[Servant Lancer]

I thought Avenger and Alter Ego were the same player until I looked again. Great start.

[Servant Lancer]

Regardless of specific roles I'd rather scum doesn't win to begin with, even if it makes one flip.

[Servant Lancer]

Stop claiming.

[Servant Lancer]

I don't know anything about FGO, but there's a comprehensive wiki and I imagine at least a few of us actually do.
The more you claim about your role the easier it is for scum to figure out who's who.
The most important thing is giving the master to town and not scum, not for everyone to start comparing their roles to each other to try and figure out who has the strongest one.

[Servant Lancer]

There's a 60

page

limit.

[Servant Lancer]

Giving town a master is more important than maximizing the master benefit, a feat which is literally impossible without fullclaiming, which I again caution is a very bad idea.
Cabd said this game is very swingy and I'm reading that as scum getting a master to be a bad thing, even if it kills one of them.

[Servant Lancer]

This is our first murder vote, yes?

Is this not the master vote?
We vote for a master, if we win we get 2 lynches day 1.
If we lose scum probably just win on the spot and we are playing up hill 10-3.

I think Berserker was saying that post is scummy.
But agree, I don't want to be in the scum master timeline.

Foreigner's mistake indicates less information, which is more town than scum, imo.

[Servant Lancer]

Hey guys, checking in. Skimming and trying to get used to reading messages with the avatars all looking the same.

I can confirm I have a similar ability to what several people have claimed so I think that is all null then right?

Your avatar is a different color.
I cannot understate how fucking jealous I am.

[Servant Lancer]

Berserker trying to strongarm the master vote out of the gate doesn't give me good feelings either.

[Servant Lancer]

What does your play have to do with this game being anon?

[Servant Lancer]

To some degree we don't want to confirm someone we think is town as town? They get a jacked role pm but will just end up being shot which results in us losing a strong town read and the entire benefit of this vote.

I would be fine with making a strong town voice master. First of all, they will be guaranteed to drive 3 hangs which can hopefully help snowball this game. Also, there's probably going to exist protective roles anyways, so they could save whoever we end up choosing.

I care more about scum not having whatever powerups they'd get than losing one strong town player.
We're going to lose that strong town player anyways, that's how mafia works.

[Servant Lancer]

VOTE: Avenger

[Servant Lancer]

Berserker trying to strongarm the master vote out of the gate doesn't give me good feelings either.

ok but a couple other people had the same idea so why single out berserker

Town and scum both want the master vote, but I don't like how Berserker's trying to control the game and steamroll. They could be town but I'd rather someone who I can be confident is town.

[Servant Lancer]

This person can eat a bullet too. That is a super weird response after their initial posts wrt this topic.

Why's it weird?

[Servant Lancer]

can someone ask me some questions, so I can feel useful?

Why are you voting for me?
Also do you scumread Berserker?

[Servant Lancer]

Okay I thought I was going to hate playing with Berserker but never mind

Foreigner I would actually be interested in the "little things" you scumread from Berserker.

[Servant Lancer]

Normally I'm all about making sure 1v1s don't clog the entire thread, but in this case we skipped right over RVS and I find that kind of cool.

Alter Ego could be a scum.

[Servant Lancer]

Mostly joke as you were last poster, but also because partial tone. I'll keep it here until I find someone better.
Not really. Seems like a weird question tbh.

You called one of his posts busywork.

[Servant Lancer]

This person can eat a bullet too. That is a super weird response after their initial posts wrt this topic.

Why's it weird?

It's a weird response because I've already said I don't care about being voted anymore?

Multiple times. Once it became clear the power was ubiquitous among townies (4+ people) I no longer cared who got it as long as they were town.

I'm now instead focusing on early game scum hunting and pressure, as you may notice, because I'm not going to be going down the confirmed town 2 days to live plan.

I don't agree that given I let go, you making this post NOW makes any sense. It's a really weird timing issue, especially since I gave it up really fast, too fast for "steamrolling" to be an adequate adjective.

This game is moving fast out of the gate, I didn't see you give it up when I made that post.

[Servant Lancer]

ok and why is avenger town to you

I'm not willing to towncase anyone yet. Do you have any reads?

[Servant Lancer]

I do townread them, but this early I don't think it would be useful to towncase them when I'm not sure myself and want to see where others decide to go.
I did like how they responded to my vote.

[Servant Lancer]

You're trying to parse how I have two different reads on two different players?

[Servant Lancer]

yes dumbass i'm asking what makes them distinct in your view

Their approaches aren't really similar at all besides wanting the master vote, and the whole list has reason to want that.
I like Avenger's early sorting and reactions and I don't really like Berserker's.

Also don't call me a dumbass, asshole.

[Servant Lancer]

yes dumbass i'm asking what makes them distinct in your view

Their approaches aren't really similar at all besides wanting the master vote, and the whole list has reason to want that.
I like Avenger's early sorting and reactions and I don't really like Berserker's.

Also don't call me a dumbass, asshole.

the only posts they have which could really be construed as "sorting" are 60 and 70, which, if that's what it takes, color me unimpressed - the scumread is even the exact same one as berserker's, so, like, what gives


looks like a fake distinction for a manufactured read from you imo tbh

1) They haven't played anything alike and your continued claim they have is super wild
2) Feels like you pressed me for what you think is a towncase so you could have something to shut down.
3) Again, do you have any reads of your own?

[Servant Lancer]

Maybe I should read the OP.
I just assumed people didn't want to claim because in fate revealing your identity is typically bad.

In mafia revealing your identity is usually bad, too?

I didn't realize it was in Fate, though. That's kind of cool.
I don't need another gacha game in my life so getting invested may be a mistake. and yet.

[Servant Lancer]

It's not really far-fetched to consider the game would be set up that way when Cabd warned about it from the beginning.

Inb4 someone else comes in saying they can break this game with a D1 massclaim.

[Servant Lancer]

Informed is literally an established role modifier.

Tbh I see this "My one role PM tells me enough about the setup that it's safe to claim, actually" sort of attitude way more often than I think I should but it also comes from town enough I wonder if there's a tell for it.

[Servant Lancer]

You're still arguing against this built-up townread of Avenger that doesn't actually exist. I like his play. I didn't like Berserker's. I haven't cased either beyond liking Avenger's response to my vote. Their individual reads don't mean much at this point because the game's just getting started and I need more context. I stated as much before we even got into this.

[Servant Lancer]

Two townreads and two scumreads.
Probably not that easy.

[Servant Lancer]

Self-meta isn't much to engage with. I want to ask what about your posting is usually scumread for you but that feels like toeing the line too hard for me to feel good about doing it.
FTR I scumread you for your opener being a request for claims to decide the Master. Also gut.

[Servant Lancer]

You're using the mechanic that gives a big boost to whoever's alignment is voted to sort out nullreads?

[Servant Lancer]

Like the point isn't the player gets to be IC. It's that they get the master ability and scum doesn't get the boost mentioned in the OP. So yes I'm only going to be okay with a player I am really sure is town.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm in observation mode atm. I'm not sure what will haul me into the game actively, or when it will happen, but I don't think it will be much longer. I thought talking to you might do the trick. Oh well.

It still might, I like this approach at least and I can sympathize with wanting to get into the game.

[Servant Lancer]

I might actually have to bite the bullet and take notes this game. I underestimated how much I relied on avatars/names/personality quirks in telling players apart and playing intuitively like I like to.

[Servant Lancer]

i guessed it without asking any questions, not a difficult logical leap. they had 4 role pms to compare and it's likely they have some similar version of the effect and could deduce it from there. however, 10 town players got that role PM, and some of them almost certainly did think their role was somehow uniquely broken and rushed to request getting this awesone power. from that perspective berserker's opening looks legit

I also expect that in games like this the mod isn't going to give all of town a power mafia doesn't know anything about.
I guess Berserker doesn't look like they were trying to capitalize on that for the TR, especially with how they accused player I can't remember of being scum for not noticing the master thing in their own PM. It was a pretty off the cuff accusation.

[Servant Lancer]

It factored into the read degradation. It struck me as odd that they wouldn't just explain why they'd decided to vote Avenger. Even if it was some small reason they had to have SOME reason to swap votes. It got worse as they talked to Assassin.

There's that. But, it also looked like one of those things that would be really easy to just let the townie have as scum as opposed to holding back. Reading back through the thread tonight, it made me wonder if my townread should have softened as much as it did later.

Do you want the master upgrade?

The reason was Avenger sounded town. I just liked their posts on gut, then their reaction to my vote and how they were playing and wanted to see how voting there would go. Assassin's trying to dig for something more and drawing this dichotomy between Berserker and Avenger in order to refute it pinged hard. Them both having the same read on Player didn't factor in.

[Servant Lancer]

Last night, I realized I was responding to Moon Cancer like their suspicion of me is coming from town. This morning, I'm not trusting that instinctual reaction so much. I'm sitting on a null town take.

This sticks out to me as something I don't think I've seen town bring up before, but also as something scum just doesn't bring up at all. Unless Alter Ego was getting some sort of pushback for treating Moon Cancer as town, this isn't something I see scum allowing to make it to the thread.

[Servant Lancer]

That he was sorting at all.

[Servant Lancer]

Early game reads don't get a blanket tr. I liked his posting the most out of the early game, I got good gut feelings about the way he jumped into the sorting and his tone, and I liked his response to my TR. That's literally all. I think it's obvious I didn't like Berserker's approach initially so why would I TR that?

[Servant Lancer]

Okay I've literally talked about everything, what are you even talking about?

[Servant Lancer]

You keep moving the goalposts away from the actual question of why I TR Avenger. I told you. Then you nitpick. So I elaborate, then you say I can't like his early sorting because other players also were? Of course they were, I liked how he did his. It was also a really early read from like page 3 so the fact that you're harping on it so hard when it's really fucking obvious where I got the read from is just unbelievable to me if you're town.

[Servant Lancer]

Saber, can you go more into your Caster TR? I get why you unvoted Alter Ego if they said they don't want the Master (I'm reading piecemeal) .
I really don't agree with using the master vote to sort what sounds like only gutreads.

[Servant Lancer]

yes it's obvious you just made it up based on appearances and when asked to justify it with literally anything specific you cannot do it because it was not a real read

How is "he responded well to my vote" not specific? How much more specific do you expect people to be about a read like this? It'd be one thing if you thought he was scummy but you're literally going after something you know I can't defend very strongly because it was the earliest of reads imaginable based on good feelings from Avenger's opener and how he approached what little solving was available.

This is why I said I wasn't willing to towncase. There was almost nothing to towncase yet. I can only elaborate so much.

[Servant Lancer]

What's your read on Avenger?

[Servant Lancer]

Do you not care about the result of this phase if you're not master?

[Servant Lancer]

I don't get why you wouldn't want to make sure town gets it instead of scum.

[Servant Lancer]

FGO: MafTigers in the Lostbelt.

Okay, but I still don't see how you have any confidence in a read like that. Using this as a cop or a confirmation just seems like a bad idea.
But I do have a townlean on Caster.

[Servant Lancer]

No, I can easily see scum faking a townread on someone for reasons like that and then retracting it. First, it makes them look better. Second, it makes them not obligated to townread someone. Not calling AE scum, but I don't think this is great reason for townread.

You can easily see scum faking a read where they claim they've been accidentally treating another player as town?
I guess there's an SvS possibility but I don't have any reason to think that, really.

What do you like about Assassin's questions?
Also, what's wrong with Avenger making sure the setup is understood?

[Servant Lancer]

Here's an explanation of a random read:
-Assassin's posts are all very laid back, which could be personality alone but gives some points since I don't know that.
-Their questioning of Lancer, while sometimes too aggressive, showed critical thought, came off to me as something he really cared about. Also, the fact he is still badgering Lancer about it when no one else really cares proves this to me. I know scum love lengthy 1v1s as something to do, but it hasn't really been shaped like those - the posts aren't needlessly long.
-He's not doing work to look town, just "being town" if you'll forgive me for the unhelpful language
-They're not afraid to go against the grain (263) or post things they could be attacked for (304 - but not the part they acknowledge as "scummy" so much as "i just logiced it out")

Actually, I came into this with a townlean and am going to upgrade it to a townread.

I like to think I'm capable of thinking critically about a scumread on me, and I don't agree with any of this. Laid-back posting, sure, but the way he's been questioning me doesn't feel good faith at all, especially when that's the only thing he's interacted with my slot about. It just looks like he saw my refusal to towncase Avenger early as an easy push.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm more or less in for the inthread masonry, though I'd be more comfortable electing alter ego or foreigner atm. I don't think we're playing well by honoring foreigner's desire to not be elected when he is obvtown.

I could go for Alter Ego. Is there a reason you don't want the master vote?

Moon Cancer, the game's barely started and it sounds like you're already over it. If you scumread Assassin so hard how about you do literally anything besides vote him as master to flip him?

[Servant Lancer]

VOTE: Caster

[Servant Lancer]

Are you watching me when I'm sleeping? I don't know why this keeps happening to me.

Honestly, I just want to king Foreigner whether he likes it or not and call it a day. I don't feel confident enough about anything else. VOTE: Foreigner

I am fine with this vote, but I don't think your sense of urgency reads natural.

I don't have any objections to that actually, I don't know why I phrased it like we have to decide now. Maybe something to do with seeing a VC.

I liked Caster's immediate response to Archer here. I think scum (I def do it) like to double-down on their positions when called out on sounding unnatural like this, but Caster just looked at the post and went "huh, you're right".

@caster, why does lancer’s defense, coming from himself, weaken the argument? It’s a rule of thumb that bias means an untrue result, but this is short hand for evaluating a statement and seeing whether it is true or not. It has nothing to do with who said it, merely what they said.

I mean, there's nothing really to his objection other than "nuh uh." If he wants to be more substantive about it that would help, but at present it just looks like omgus.

I started quoting to explain why I TRed you and then remembered this interaction, so. Great. Are you really going to do the thing Assassin is doing and just totally ignore the parts of my posts that don't fit? I said it was weird that Assassin is only focusing on that one read and hasn't engaged me or engaged about me with anything else. But no, you totally shut me down and call it OMGUS. I guess I can't see it from outside my own POV but Assassin's questioning didn't even try to follow what I was saying, and then concluded with "Lancer didn't know how to explain the read" when I clearly already had as much as it was

possible

to explain a read from that early.

Well I say I'm lazy. My notes PT is currently 11 pages long and I actually probably could string together all the posts I've made about him there and paste it as a case. But I'm not going to.

So you just hate the town and want us to lose? Ok

Brb gonna start deliberately being scummy to trick the town into optimal play

Anyways, I liked this series of posts too but idk. Avenger's response to the Assassin is the only one that feels like he's actually considering the situation properly.

[Servant Lancer]

I don't enjoy how you've apparently put in all of this effort but don't seem interested in playing with the rest of us, and are actively voting someone you think is scum so the game sorts it for you in a way that's really bad if he is scum.
I don't even think it's AI, i just... don't like it.

This is @Moon Cancer though that's probably clear

[Servant Lancer]

Could you do me a favour and take a look?

[Servant Lancer]

Moon Cancer, the game's barely started and it sounds like you're already over it

No, I just don't really intend to hash out reads with people. If I think something needs to be asked, I'll ask, but I'm fine just trying to solve the game in my notes PT for a while.

If you scumread Assassin so hard how about you do literally anything besides vote him as master to flip him?

Because I don't need to? What would doing that achieve in this phase?

If this were a normal game, I'd probably try to get rid of Archer and Shielder before him anyway.

Can't force you to change how you play.

My point about not voting your scumreads is that I'm pretty sure mafia wants mafia elected, and town wants town. I keep seeing the argument that the game should be balanced no matter what happens but that's not the same as the outcome of the first phase of the game not being important. That's like arguing that because a normal game should be balanced around a PR possibly dying night 1, it doesn't matter if they do.

Also, re:post count, I know it's limited but 60 pages per phase is a lot if you just don't spam.

[Servant Lancer]

when i am king you will be first against the wall

Oh goody.

@Avenger - Did you see my post to/on Caster? I felt best about them at the time.
Now I think Assassin probably

is

town because things just clicked in my head that i can't go into because "spirit of the game".

[Servant Lancer]

I don't think I've read one post from Shielder yet. No read on Beast, Archer I would probably lazily have my vote on if this were a normal phase.

[Servant Lancer]

Shielder hasn't gotten into the game yet, but I'm not surprised they're finding it kind of overwhelming. Mech talk aside, talking to a bunch of faceless and nameless players is making it hard to look at big picture things for me too.
Also, scum can obviously still do this but making the mechanics clear to a player that's obviously struggling is still just a good thing to do. Scum do it because it's an easy way to objectively benefit town, not because it's a scummy thing to do. I remember Archer not liking Avenger's explaining things to Shielder, but given the obvious benefit to to the mechanics being understood by the whole list, it's a weird thing to pick on.

[Servant Lancer]

I like the way beast talked about their TRs on me and Avenger, I guess. I'll get back to this because I want to see how a thing goes.

Archer, you mention a lot of posts (ex Alter Ego's) and with Moon Cancer with your 469 that you say feel like busywork. But a lot of your own comments are also just neutral questions or statemejts. Like, in 433 you just say "good point" to something. What's the difference between scummy busywork and just casually saying words?

[Servant Lancer]

Avenger - No, I haven't read all of your posts, sorry. Focusing on one interest at a time is working for me when I have the time, so thanks for reminding me to do that.

Ruler - I had this whole thing on how it sounds like youre using real identities way too much in a game where that isn't verifiable, but if you're bringing it up like this at all I'm probably not going to be able to convince you to stop with one post.
But I do think your tinfoil is actually tinfoil, like not the self deprecating "I know this is wild but I do actually put some stock into it" sort of tinfoil but the really out there tinfoil.

Pedit - Hahahaha

[Servant Lancer]

Wow, are you actually mafia? Lol.

Ahhh!

Players who refuse to post a complete reads list with reasoning is mafia. Wow, this game's going to be easy.

Wow, so there are 14 mafia in this game?

Lmao.

Should have declared weekend V/LA. I'm kind of sad to come back and see it's just Avenger and Assassin for Master, but eh, I didn't really help.

[Servant Lancer]

3 hours to deadline, I suck. Caster having votes is exciting but it also means I'm now partially responsible for his ascension if it goes through instead of being able to lazily dodge having an impact.
Avenger, are you scumreading Caster or just not townreading?

[Servant Lancer]

You're basically thinking that my judgment is compromised because I'm scum reading you and thus you wouldn't trust me for master because I'm clearly not perfect, Yes? #Rider.

Pedit: I'm town reading caster. Move your vote back to me anyway Lancer. Come homeeee.

I'm reading now, let's see. This game is dense so it's time to skim like the wind.

[Servant Lancer]

@Saber,
1. That's pretty untrue. His opinions can be counted on one hand. I think part of his appeal is because he doesn't have enough in regards to opinion or reads, both Assassin and I have put down scum reads on stronger players than shielder, which makes people invested in seeing both of us lose from either alignment. That alone should be pretty obvious.

But you still townread Caster? Why?

[Servant Lancer]

Lancer seems to be getting needlessly agitated by things I wouldn't expect a townie to get agitated about (see the response to my desire for Master Caster as one example).

I don't remember this interaction, but I TR Caster so I don't know why I'd be upset by that. Can you quote it when you get the chance?

[Servant Lancer]

Is it too late to get a bunch of votes swung onto Assassin? I'm not caught up but I think I like this more than Avenger and Caster. Like 610 is not something I see scum deciding to make and I like them on the very recent pages I've been reading a lot too.
Thinking back on it with some distance scum doesn't need to try and trap me into defending an early read or do it in such an over the top way.

[Servant Lancer]

VOTE: Assassin
Forgot this vote is plurality.

[Servant Lancer]

I just got to 637 and feel like a dumbass lol.

[Servant Lancer]

I like the way beast talked about their TRs on me and Avenger, I guess. I'll get back to this because I want to see how a thing goes.

Archer, you mention a lot of posts (ex Alter Ego's) and with Moon Cancer with your 469 that you say feel like busywork. But a lot of your own comments are also just neutral questions or statemejts. Like, in 433 you just say "good point" to something. What's the difference between scummy busywork and just casually saying words?

Archer did you ever respond to this?

Also I'm caught up. I still feel stupid but I also think Assassin's my favourite out of these three. The way Avenger is playing around the other players up for master vote is pretty deliberate and while I feel like that's his personality and what he'd do for the vote as town I'm not comfortable with it because it could also just be deliberate scum positioning.

Berserker is really town though.

Pedit - Fucking hell posts. I guess it's close to deadline but goddamn.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm here too.

[Servant Lancer]

Moon Cancer - scum
The rest town, especially Lancer.

[Servant Lancer]

Oh this is fun.
Town
Town
Scum
Scum

[Servant Lancer]

Scum
Town
Town
Town
Town

[Servant Lancer]

The last thing I'm going to say on this subject before I retreat to my mind palace is:

Why was that the only question that Shielder v1 asked PUBLICLY if he found the setup confusing? Do you think it's just a coincidence that the only question he asked happened to be one that implied something about his alignment?

This isn't intended as an insult to Shielder v1, but the rest of the posts that are there don't give me the impression he was actively trying for TRs.
Shielder v2's posts don't look like that either. What makes you think he's scum trying to confuse interactions and then die, as opposed to LHF?

@Archer keeps ignoring my question about his scumhunting.

[Servant Lancer]

Why are some people town reading beast?

Why do you SR Beast?

But speaking of - Beast, at this point I don't see why you don't want to explain your reads now.
I'm half holding out for that before I commit but gun to head I do think he's town.

[Servant Lancer]

@Archer keeps ignoring my question about his scumhunting.

My answer is...
I don't know. Working on fleshing more things out though. Post coming

They're your own reads, you should know. Can you explain why Berserker is really town off the recent posts? You don't seem to agree with her.

[Servant Lancer]

If someone wants to talk to me please do so. I'm still at the point where I'm mixing up Rider and Ruler. This game is really hard to backread.

[Servant Lancer]

@Archer - Okay, I don't hate your answer. Thanks. And I also really like 1251.

@Caster - having one wrong read doesn't mean I'm going to ignore Berserker being towny. I also thought Assassin was scum earlygame.

Shielder town is a gutread prompted partially by what seems like most of the game scumreading him for not a good reason. Shielder had some reads that ran counter to consensus (I dont remember them rn, besides Saber for mastwr I think?) but that in itself isn't any reason to be scum, and I like 696 for the indignance and Shielder's general feeling of "someone please interact with my reads in good faith".

[Servant Lancer]

I get what youre saying about killing Berserker if her reads are proven to be consistently bad, but warning against townreading her bc she SRed Assassin, you, and townreads a player you say is scum that hasn't flipped yet?

[Servant Lancer]

I guess indignance is more accurately applied to Shielder's other posts. I just find it a pretty towny sentiment and maybe I'm also being contrarian because I don't like the reasons for scumreading Shielder that I've seen. Caster's posting in particular is part of what shook my TR of them, and now that I go to look they basically went from "I don't like shielder but I see how they're in this position" to "lol this slot's scum" with a lot of confidence but no explanation or process.

Why do you townread me?
@Archer

[Servant Lancer]

I'd like you to explain later then. About Berserker.

[Servant Lancer]

Actually, let me rephrase that.

@Lancer, @Beast, you're the only two who haven't claimed whether or not they had it.

Did either of you not have the ability to upgrade other players?

I have it.

[Servant Lancer]

Alter I don't think that's why Assassin pushed me, it had to do with my early Avenger read, not the 1v1.

@Moon Cancer - Lol no it did not. This game is the bane of my life

[Servant Lancer]

I've played secret alt games before, they've been harder but not this hard, so I'm not here blaming the setup or themeing. Usually I'd feel bad just rolling over and letting myself go out after doing nothing, but I feel like the rest of the town can handle this just fine. I'm not coming up with much when I try to get caught up.

@Caster - Idk, why not? They still claimed to have the master chain power. And at the time of Shielder's saying he didn't have it, I thought it was consensus that all town had the power. That's why I didn't go into it, it didn't even feel necessary to confirm, but I wanted everyone to stop claiming so I wasn't about to start doing the same.

[Servant Lancer]

To be clear I'm not saying I plan to just let myself get misfaded, that's not happening if I can help it. But I don't feel like my play so far has screwed over the town in any considerable way.

[Servant Lancer]

Archer was the only one I had good reasons for but everybody caught him already so f
Caster is part gut and me thinking I TRed him for the wrong reasons at first. It also relies on Shielder being town. I need to catch up but it's like I have a mental block towards doing so. And I have read all of the pages, they're just not coming into anything for me.
And now that I look at this page, he argues for Shielder scum again and then joins him on Ruler, because dueling wagons, when Shielder has barely any votes. I don't know if that means anything but it's not what I'd expect with a Shielder SR.

I don't really have any more developed reads which sucks, I know. I'll see what I can do about getting more invested.

[Servant Lancer]

Like, I don't need to explain this do I?
Berserker is wrong. If I'm wrong, then you can laugh at me for being ignorant but that FOS into side vote is classic scum. It's so scummy it hurts. It goes beyond "seeming like scum" and into the realm of "virtually indistinguishable from scum"

I would like an explanation, actually. Shielder agreed with me on the Caster read, townread me on that, so then didn't like Rider's vote on me. What's the problem?

[Servant Lancer]

Uh, no? Because his posts right before that were agreeing with me Caster was scummy.

[Servant Lancer]

Why does Shielder have to vote the player he was most recently suspicious of? It's like you're looking at the two posts with zero context from the rest of them. Shielder also said he townread me, so disliking Rider's vote for me automatically just feels like a natural extension of that.

Though I'll mention I get Rider's post about why he SRs me. Like, he's not wrong, that is basically what happened from an outside POV because my activity dropped off hard.

[Servant Lancer]

I got caught up on five whole pages. Wahoo...
1726 - are you asking me a question, or? What do you mean mostly silence is better?

[Servant Lancer]

....Huh? Isn't the FOS engagement with Rider? How can it go anywhere before Rider posts a response or someone else does? But you immediately called Shielder scum for it before Rider had gotten back into the thread. I dont get your point now.

[Servant Lancer]

Wrong quote.
That was in response to beast.

Can you reply to me, though? I don't understand your argument or why you quoted those posts to say Shielder is for sure scum. Saying Shielder never went to engage with Rider when the two posts in question are back to back is really ????.

[Servant Lancer]

I also care.
And okay Avenger, thanks.

[Servant Lancer]

200 posts, I can handle this. You will see something from me today. Trying to take things by chunks. I like Moon Cancer's 1942 on this page, assuming it is about Shielder and I'm not missing a bunch of context.

[Servant Lancer]

@Rider - I was really into Caster's attitude, he just Felt really at ease and it was around post 270 where I got hit with the towny energy and the frustration that seemed really well timed.
I reconsidered with the Shielder push, and that's what made me think I wasn't really TRing Caster for anything besides attitude.
Looking back on Caster now while I read there's a lot of posts that sound good but they're missing the followup. Like, 465 made me think "okay, he's putting some thought into this" but then he doesn't actually go back to look even though I asked.
Maybe there's some fault for me here for pulling the disappearing act, but then there's the Shielder read, where Caster begins with being sure Shielder is scum and is again uninterested with engaging the slot. I dont have post numbers but the big post about how Berserker's reads can't be trusted and then clamming up when I tried to ask about it is still ???
But it looks like Caster does have Berserker as 100% town, which I do agree with.

I already talked about this but Idk if it was discussed, but the Ruler vote after actually giving a reason for Shielder to be scum is another example of the lack of followthrough.
When I called that out, I see Caster responded with a joke to vote me instead ot Ruler, which doesn't actually address why he chose not to vote Shielder. I don't know if that's actually scummy in a vacuum. I need more context for the rest, because Caster's tone seems to change with what I assume is getting suspicion from Assassin + whoever else.
But the original read change was just realizing the tone doesn't actually count for much + not liking the Shielder push, the rest is from just now.

[Servant Lancer]

Okay, I'll see when I get there.
Also, I can grant Master if I'm Master once D1 and once D2. I think that's the standard one.

Pedit You knew someone was going to take issue with it, but when I say as much you just say "lol what if I vote you instead"?

[Servant Lancer]

It's difficult to learn your motivations when you dont communicate them. Explaining it now is well and good, but that's easy to do when you have so much distance from the original action.

I don't think you forgot about any scumreads, the posts were literally back to back, so suggesting that that would be the problem were you scum feels is arguing against something I didn't suggest to begin with. Deciding to pressure Ruler there feels pointless, especially when it's nothing but putting a vote out there with no attempts to move others in that direction. What were you hoping to get out of the vote?

[Servant Lancer]

Why did Assassin's opinion on who to eliminate matter to you when you still believed strongly that Shielder was scum? And what prompted you to move back to Shielder?

And I'm struggling to find out your motivations here. You sometimes feel like you're trying to dig into things, but most of the time you look like you're purposely being opaque. You said the Ruler vote thing is an easy thing to jump on, but why did you even do it that way?
I know 'for a wagon', but you must know it wouldn't happen from nothing.

I just got to Shielder v3s entrance. I don't know yet. I guess it does make sense v2s claim was a lie when I think about it being the only one like that, but I still think their ISO has a lot of townie moments. Which is what I thought Moon Cancer was talking about, but now Im rhinking they were talking about Caster. lol.

[Servant Lancer]

I finally got to the context of the Moon Cancer post. Straight up putting in the wrong name, lmao. Is it completely hypocritical that I agreed when I thought it was about Shielder and think it's a really bad approach to Caster?

Kind of hate Beast's "they lied, even if they're town it's not a big loss and I don't care" post about Shielder because it feels a lot like passing the buck but I do also find myself thinking in spite of things that keeping them alive isn't going to be good for game health either.

[Servant Lancer]

Hello Lancer. Last I saw, you had expressed some level of suspicion toward Moon Cancer. Does that still hold true?

They're on my radar, but I think Moon Cancer's priorities are so blatantly nonstandard that I'm never going to be happy with a read on them, especially after reading the post where Cancer says winning the game is less important than being right in their own reads.
As it stands its gut scum but I haven't examined why.

[Servant Lancer]

Sorry. I recognize that an effort was made, I just still don't really think you're town. Please don't take it personally.

Shrug. I just think you suck, mostly. I should be an easy read here.

I've been bleeding town all over the thread since day 0. It's literally insane that I'm even a serious wagon. I have no logical point that will satisfy you.

I'm sorry if you are town and are feeling really frustrated with this.
But I am not buying this after the conversation Caster and I had about their play.

[Servant Lancer]

to answer more directly

AE, Beast, Rider are my top town reads not named Assassin.

I have my bottom 3 scum in those 3 above, and Lancer is a bit of a wildcard.

I need more from new Ruler to make more judgement but my prior take was "town".

Lol, I have thoughts on everyone, It's just I'm not wasting my time diversifying and confusing town, I only want one person dead today.

I know you want to concentrate your efforts right now, but I'd really like for you to talk about Beast and why you're townreading her so strongly. Does it mostly come down to agreement on Shielder?

At this point I feel townreads on me should be slipping. My in-thread presence has dropped significantly, especially since Archer's flip. It's been a struggle to keep slogging on.

This is a wild post if you're scum, Alter. I don't think you are, but this is me congratulating you if you are.
What do you mean by agreement on Shielder? I thought Beast was SRing Shielder. I like that you bring the slot up now because they've been sliding down my reads.

But mostly it's the callout of townreads on themself. Obviously scum can do this but it's a brazen tactic I have to applaud, and I feel like Alter has been consistently goodposting all game so far.

[Servant Lancer]

My assumption was 507 was them hinting they thought I might be town because they had a guess as to who I was and assumed that behavior would be characteristic of me.

Wasn't that when you were pretending to be someone else?

No, yeah, this was why. I'm embarrassed about who i thought you were because you so obviously are not.

[Servant Lancer]

What are your reads, currently?

I townread you and assassin. I scumread moon cancer and shielder. I do not have much of an opinion on anyone else.

this is interesting because i scumread archer and assassin and to some extent moon cancer, so one scum in each bucket of a scums reads? hmm

For the sake of it, I'll just link this quote and say I thought this was an example of a town thought process from Shielder.

(I am aware that scum can say things like this, but I think most of the time scum don't think like this D1.)

(I am also aware that you could argue it looks like she had knowledge of Archer's alignment. I could theoretically see that being the case but I also tend to think scum try to be less, like... blatant, I guess is the word? Drawing attention to that when she was one of the people in the scum reads just seems pretty bold.)

I'm curious about what prompted your Shielder defense here. You said you felt you could pull the elim off of Caster but don't feel like doing it. What's the difference between the two?

Pedit
VOTE: Caster

[Servant Lancer]

Beast townread Shielder 2.0 and was defending them, as Berserker did, too. I wondered if that original agreement and defense was part of the basis for the read, even though Beast's read flipped.

I mean... If they flip town or scum I'm probably not going to look great. I'm either their teammate if scum or just pushing a miselim if town right?

Why do you think your Shielder read 180 is going to look bad?
V3s claim and replace-in looked significant enough to me to change reads, and it changed yours.

[Servant Lancer]

Moon Cancer's defense timing looks really purposeful in how it's right at the moment Shielder's elimination looks most assured, like they want the wagon to go through but they want everyone to know they were right about it and don't have an alternative push. I get the scumreads on Shielder and I'd probably vote there if I had nothing else but besides the claims (which I acknowledge are bad) the slot's play hasn't been scummy to me. At worst it's awkward.

I don't agree that Caster's emotional posts are town indicative, scum are perfectly capable of getting frustrated about things. The claim that Caster should be obvtown from their play from the beginning doesn't ring true with how they've talked about their own play as one lacking in followthrough and being very gut-based. A player who thinks rhey should be being townread would probably not also be that self deprecating about their style? And that's not the word I want to use, but I can't think of a better one right now.

[Servant Lancer]

Anyone can hammer any time now please. Put this day and this scum slot out of its misery.

Scum and policy? If you think it's scum, it's not policy.

[Servant Lancer]

Caster first is preference. Shielder is a great information elim, which would be wonderful if I didn't think those were garbage. But Moon Cancer's and now Beast's position on the slot are notable to me.
Not that I think a Shielder elim would be garbage, and I could certainly be wrong on my townread, but Caster is just scum.

Pedit Oh cool.

[Servant Lancer]

You dont think I expected Assassin to vote Caster when hes scumreading both and I've been arguing for Caster scum?

Can you answer my question about defending Shielder?

[Servant Lancer]

You being so brazen about it makes me want to townread the behavior. Stop that.
(I do not actually townread the behavior. But if you are town I gotta say, can you care a little more about the game and wincon than being right?)

Avenger, do you think Shielder's flipping scum?

[Servant Lancer]

Perhaps, what I mean is, that he's adding original content here. But I feel like I've read these same arguments a thousand times before with varying accuracy.

I feel vaguely like I should be insulted by this.
I'm not, but still. Are you saying my takes are tired, or..?

[Servant Lancer]

Didn't realize day had started. Stuff is stuff but I'm here, let's go.

[Servant Lancer]

I did ISO the mod to see when day started I'm very sorry

[Servant Lancer]

I mean, Lancer's at E-2, you should be happy, no?

Also if Caster's your top scumread why do you care if he scumreads you?

I don't care for me. I care for other people to see that and realize it's a ridiculous thing to believe and they're hiding behind my fervent belief they are scum to OMGUS back at me as a defense.

Because no one listens to me.

I can see why Berserker is so upset.

Lancer is consensus scum and thus can be lynched any day. If Berseker dies, who would push his guilty? Moon Caster could lie based on Berserker's flip based on the sounds of slim chance of a false positive.

It's a very townie reaction.

Consensus scum? Do you scumread me?

[Servant Lancer]

So we can run you up and we'll see if you're really okay being executed instead of claiming your full role and actions list and seeing what happens.

Oh, do you think I was bluffing when I said I had zero intention of fighting against my own wagon if I happened to be run up in this game?

lol

don't sign up for mafia games if you are going to be like this

if you're town i will be avoiding you in the future

+++

Assassin I get why you're upset, but you're not in charge of the entire town's collective decision making. You had a wrong read on a miselim. It happens.
I felt like shielder was town but I wasn't confident enough to really push against it because the claims were so weird.

[Servant Lancer]

playing to a win condition over "amusement" like some sort of anime villain should be an enforeceable rule

I really shouldn't TR posts like this. But Caster's reactions have been consistently good and in hindsight maybe I should be listening to that over what could actually be playstyle. Trying to be all smart about shit has not been working.

[Servant Lancer]

Lancer proceeds down that road of trying to tamp down on Berserker's momentum. #117.

@Beast, @Alter, @Saber, @Ruler, what do you think of Lancer?
Lancer what do you think of those 4?

@Beast, yeah that's what I meant. k.

I TR Alter, their posting just feels good and I liked the comment about how TRs on them should be going down.
Beast and Saber could both be scum. Both of the reads are partly PoE/not townreading, but I did like some of Saber's posts day 2, I think their ISOs are also short so I could take a better look.
Ruler I've got nothing on. Maybe at one point I did have thoughts, but I don't remember.

@Alter - do you have a read on me?

[Servant Lancer]

Lancer proceeds down that road of trying to tamp down on Berserker's momentum. #117.

@Beast, @Alter, @Saber, @Ruler, what do you think of Lancer?
Lancer what do you think of those 4?

@Beast, yeah that's what I meant. k.

Actual reasons please. Not I agree or I think.
Just read the game and his iso and come back to me and tell me what you think he thought.

Alright,

TBH in early day 1 he was pinging a bit town with me. I liked their early interactions and they were answering questions directed at them with the right amount of sass.

During the night they seem the worst off after knowing shields flip. Reading their ISO from yesterday felt like they knew already what was going to happen. I fail to accept that their casual confidence in that town read came from a town place and think it was scum avoiding the wagon. I kind of feel the same way about moon, though they were more obvious and outspoken against the shield elim whereas lancer was more subtle and they also pointed out moon cancer's defense. It could be both of them, but I like Lancer for scum based on yesterday.

thats my thought space right now

I don't feel like I was projecting confidence. If I was actually confident in the read, I would have towncased or given a stronger reason for Shielder unvotes.
But if I go down today because I was correct on a toneread then... tbh it would be completely expected given how this game has gone so far. Haha.

Though even if Shielder hadn't been the elim, Caster would have been, and I'm no longer confident they're scum.

Pedit@Assassin - Yeah I did mean Day 1. And sure I can find them.

Alter - Why is prodging AI? I didn't have time and the game was moving at A Pace. That's not a bad thing but there's literally nothing I could do about IRL, and it's not like I can talk about it without giving way to main stuff.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm not sure where the inconsistency is. Lancer's got people gunning for him (hi!) and basically admits he's been inactive and not helped public opinion towards him. Where da cogdis?

It's my cog dis because of how Lancer admitted he was inactive. He didn't accuse people of being scummy for pushing him but he took responsibility for his prior play.

I like naked voting right now because I feel we have scum on the ropes but then I see a post like that and I am not so sure.

didn't you know avenger, tone is fake, we only deal in COLD HARD FACTS here like "caster's iso bad"

Scum just don't do this post.

Smh. They do. It's the post of someone genuinely frustrated but frustration is NAI.

I remember liking these posts as I was catching up and having a generally positive view of Saber in my head.
But that may have something to do with one being a TR of me when I have almost none of those and the other is because I disagreed pretty hard at the time that Caster's emotional posting was a reason to TR them and was again just happy to see some agreement.

Given the townread doesn't seem to have been very strong given Saber's posting today, idk.

[Servant Lancer]

Alter - Why is prodging AI? I didn't have time and the game was moving at A Pace. That's not a bad thing but there's literally nothing I could do about IRL, and it's not like I can talk about it without giving way to main stuff.

It felt sort of strategic, like fade away and let other things going on catch attention. Your late day 1 re-entrance, and the contrary stance helped with that. Like I said, I'm not great at reading tone in a player I can't either identify or meta, but I didn't leap to thinking your posts were disingenuous.

Eh, I hear this a lot so I don't hate it, but I do find it kinda funny that whenever I fall behind in a game it's read as some kind of strategy, even in this one. It keeps happening.

I don't think I'm going to bother with trying to reason out Moon Cancer's main in order to see if this behavior is in-character, 1 because it's a fool's errand for me and 2 because I buy that they're genuinely this egotistical. I'm not comfortable TRing the slot or scumreading it right now, but there's also a very very short list of players I think are capable of reacting that well to Berserker's result as scum.

[Servant Lancer]

Heh. #2540 would pretty much be my POE pool if I took Rider out.

(I'm considering whether I'm giving Beast too easy a town read but currently thinking Beast is town.)

The thing that bothers me about Beast is the strength of her 180 on Shielder. She went from defending Shielder almost as hard as Berserker was, to a scumread based on the lies/inconsistencies whatever in Shelder's early claims about their master ability being different vs the eventual full claim.

It came with no nuance concerning Shielder's 3.0's posts overall.

I was weighing the inconsistency against what I thought was a pretty town-looking attitude about getting the claim into the thread, making sure the paraphrases were ok with the mod, etc. Still wound up with a scum read, but I definitely wasn't in "burn it with fire" mode.

For me it was Beast's self-consciousness regarding the Shielder flip, that she didn't view her own reasons as good enough to serve as a reason for the change in read, as well as the focus on how others were viewing her slot. It could also be town paranoia of being miselimed, which is what I was hoping to figure out, and Beast also holistically feels like a player I could see being worried about that. I do think she's readable.

VOTE: Saber
I kinda don't like the way they talk about my slot, like they're not sure if they want to townread me or not because I'm being heavily scumread, and then today they call me consensus scum pretty confidently.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm not totally sold on Caster-town. There's something that feels out of balance in his game behavior. He's so salty about getting pushed. But he's pretty gleeful about piling on to other players being pressured.

I also think this could be personality. Obligatory secret alt game caveat but I didn't get the same feeling of falseness when Caster was talking about his own play as I did originally. It's not a read I'm fully happy with but being salty about a push is pretty standard for a lot of types of players. I know you're commenting on that in comparison to being happy to push wagons but I don't really see how they connect.

I am somewhat concerned that Lancer keeps coming in late and echoing other people but he has a point about Saber's read on him which doesn't quite feel organic, in addition to everything else. At any rate he's playing ball and Saber...isn't, so much, and Lancer has had more town sounding posts. If Saber is town Lancer remains firmly in the PoE regardless. Think we'll be okay so long as I end today with a solid list of townreads.

What am I echoing? I was posting as I was getting caught up.

did you even do anything between saber flipping his read on you?

Nothing I could see, Saber went from going back and forth and tonally townreading me to being fine with eliminating me today and I don't see him actually exploring the read.
I'd be interested to see what he has to say about it.

[Servant Lancer]

I like Rider for town, why is he more likely scum if I'm town?

[Servant Lancer]

There was supposed to be a quote there. that's @ Assassin.

[Servant Lancer]

What's your scum pool, Lancer?

Saber, and some combination of you, Beast, and Ruler right now.

My townlist isn't 100% firmed up but I'd confidently say there's no scum in Berserker or Alter Ego. Avenger is probably also not scum but they feel like the type of player I'm always going to be a little paranoid about.
Rider I TR and don't particularly find scummy so I'm curious about the SRs I've seen from a few players.

@Avenger - I dunno, I don't think I've talked about Rider a lot but I haven't SRed him, I think his takes make sense.

[Servant Lancer]

Oh I do also townread Foreigner from early game stuff and as a result I haven't paid much attention to new Foreigner. I should though.

[Servant Lancer]

I like Rider for town, why is he more likely scum if I'm town?

You've been the player in the POE he's been most consistently pushing toward eliminating, and if we have you town and a couple other players in there as scum then it's concerning you're the one he went after.

I'll be the first to admit I still don't have the best grasp on every part of the gamestate, but is Rider significant in pushing me? Or is he just the player you townread least who is?
Rider's reason for SRing me is currwntly the only one I can remember offhand.

[Servant Lancer]

You asked me if I mentioned townreading Rider before. I don't remember if I did say it in the thread.

[Servant Lancer]

Idk? Nothing prompted me to talk about it until I saw assassin's post mentioning Rider and wondered about it.

[Servant Lancer]

It's enough that I'm happy to push Saber and see what he does.

I quoted one of the posts by Caster I liked, but his whole reaction to Moon Cancer's reaction to Berserker's "guilty". I didn't know if I should townread it but it gave me the same feeling his earlygame posts did and prompted me to rethink the stuff I didn't like end of day 1. Emotional posting a few times is one thing but the fact that Caster's done it multiple times in response to different things and I've felt the same way instinctively, makes me more willing to want to give him another shot and see what he does going forward.

The stuff I didn't like about Caster (lack of followthrough, disconnect between thinking he should be obvtown to assassin and how he talked to me when I pushed him on the former) could be personality and the fact he's stuck to his guns on it adds to that a bit.

[Servant Lancer]

this is the only time (other than saying "scum" in the GTH reads) youve mentioned lancer since page 10 of the thread. you did state an early scumlean in the first 10 pages, but there is not any mention of lancer in your iso since then.

Would you like to know why that is? It's because Lancer has done a whole lot of fuckall since having his ass handed to him by Assassin at roundabouts then. Curiously, this caused my scumread on him to deepen! Perhaps more curiously, I didn't repeatedly comment on the nothing he was doing, egads!

so i disagree with your claim. by the bolded i mean theres one wagon with associatives with scummy slots thats scummier, and then theres the wagon youre voting.

1. I'm not claiming anything.
2. There are three wagons, not two.
3. "One wagon with associative with scummy slots that's scummier" is a fantastically nonsensical thing to say. My best guess here is you're trying to say "You should've voted Caster or Ruler (as I've no idea which one you're talking about) as they are scummier than the guy you voted for". Assuming that's what you meant, I disagree. Vehemently.
4. No.

I was mad about this post for a bit but Rider isn't wrong about my doing of fuckall at the time, and I think it's partially responsible for my wanting to get my shit together.

I don't think we've been in the thread at the same time very much but Rider's scumread on me doesn't look manufactured, he's pretty set in the read it looks like, but he's still asking good questions. I'd quote more but I'm not feeling great and on my phone rn, but if you track mentions of me in his ISO there's evidence he's actually trying to figure me out.
Besides that there's some earlier stuff, I dont know if read originality is actually a towntell but Rider doesn't post like he's agreeing with anyone, even when his reads line up with others they feel independently formed.

The caveat is I want to see how Rider interacts with the content I have put out this day, because I've definitely been doing better with being present.

It's not the level of Berserker and Alter Ego where if they're scum I need to just fucking quit, but the only reason I'd look to Rider for scum rn would be if slots I liked less flipped town.

Pedit lol

[Servant Lancer]

Why are you so mad

[Servant Lancer]

Big shrug.
Do you have a read on Rider?

[Servant Lancer]

Pretty sure he was talking to me. I'm not mad, I don't really think its warranted though, especially when he wasnt the one questioning me about it, but I guess he thought i just purposely didnt answer?

[Servant Lancer]

Which is why I outed a townread on him totally unprompted? My master plan, foiled.

[Servant Lancer]

How do you even figure that? How does not giving an explicit read on a slot leave him open to push later? I also did give a TR on him when Assassin was doing the GTH reads, now that I look. I dont get why its suddenly a problem for you.

Pedit Huh?

[Servant Lancer]

Or reverse it, why suddenly out the read after not having outted it for so long?

Because Assassin's saying Rider was more likely scum if Im town caught my attention.
You know, like that thing that just happened.

[Servant Lancer]

I mean, semantics. I gave the read because I had a reason to mention it, but thats the case for basically everything Id say in a mafia game. Nobody asked me about it before I decided to mention it so yeah, thats what Id consider unprompted.

[Servant Lancer]

I didnt dodge anything. My answers right there, I just put it in a different post because I wanted to quote something. afaik Moon Cancers question was rhe first time I was asked why and I gave my answer.
And no, im not going to go back and quote more because Im kind of sick of being spoken to like Im a fucking moron, Im posting from my phone while in bed. You can have your specifics tomorrow but maybe trying engaging me with something besides completely unwarranted aggression.

[Servant Lancer]

I may or may not have an ability that lets me channel Berserker at will

I dont remember Berserker being rude to me for no reason.

[Servant Lancer]

Your comment about not being able to tell between scum playing dumb vs town playing dumb, I was assuming that was at me.
Im not mad at your questioning, Rider's coming at me with that attitude as though I was purposely dodging anybody when I did respond is what set me off, sorry. Especially after I explained I wanted to say more but didnt feel up to it.

Pedit - Its okay, i shouldnt have responded in kind I guess. But thanks for the apology, I get that its a mafia thing.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm confused why you think I'm talking to you like you're a moron.
Your read on rider is just pretty absent and I find that weird. Your thought that you just agree with a lot of what he sees and his accusations are fair to you feels pretty absent of a town thought process?

Do you see where Im coming from on being confused as to why the absent read is only a problem after I actualy gave a read?
It wasnt just the read on me, thats just what i remembered at the time. Especially because Assassin's Rider read seemed to have a lot to do with how Rider approached me, where Riders read on me is one of the ones that actually felt dynamic and justified as compared to the other scumreads on me. So I wanted to question that.
In any case I'm gonna try and stop posting for the night, I will do a better look at Rider if that'll help when I have my laptop. My thought rn is I don't think scum usually gets so overexcited aggro that they just miss the post entirely.

[Servant Lancer]

If I'm saying you're playing dumb then that means you aren't dumb, doesn't it?

But Im not playing anything, so saying Im playing dumb reads like you think I'm saying dumb things.

As for verifying Rider, Ive been waiting to see how he reacts to me being around more as the main crux of his SR seems like its my absences/dodging stuff. It didnt register to me that hes been posting today after I did, tbh.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm kind of prod dodging, I threw up last night

This is a mood I also still feel crap, feel better

@Avenger - Ive never been great at taking anything meaningful from vote distribution, what's weird?

[Servant Lancer]

me: *asks about VCA even though I rarely find it compelling because maybe it is this time*

Avenger:

Well, I'm scum reading/null reading you and Beast and you're both voting Saber with me.

While foreigner and rider are voting you.

While Saber, Berserker, and Caster are voting Moon cancer.

Pretty much I think 1, probably two town are voting you and 1 or 2 scum is voting with me.
And there's probably 1 scum on mooncancer, but if that's saber why are scum voting saber. I'm just looking at the boxed in scum and wondering where they're voting I guess and why.

I dont know what I expected.

[Servant Lancer]

playing to a win condition over "amusement" like some sort of anime villain should be an enforeceable rule

I really shouldn't TR posts like this. But Caster's reactions have been consistently good and in hindsight maybe I should be listening to that over what could actually be playstyle. Trying to be all smart about shit has not been working.

You should have just stopped after the first sentence. Crybabies who exempt themselves from normal rules (moon cancer) and people who threaten blacklists in an anon game (caster) should just be lynched. Save the drama for a theater.

I dont feel like arguing about who should or should not be in games so I wont but

How players respond to things, how quickly and how easily and in what ways, even in those responses arent outright scumhunting, can still be an indicator of alignment. How is this different from you being conflicted bc you dont tr me but thinking I have "towny tone"?

Pedit - it keeps coming up in games and I keep meaning to remember to look back in postgame to see if wagonspeed/votecounts/etc could be something I can learn how to use and then i just... never do. Maybe someday

[Servant Lancer]

Wants to push me

Makes a post all about a caster fence shit. Hmmm

You werent in the thread since Id voted you

[Servant Lancer]

I have a strong TR from earlygame. New foreigner hasnt been on my radar very much.

[Servant Lancer]

Oh okay bc I was staring at the list and wondering if your Rider SR was actually a joke that was flying over my head.
Why is he scum for you again?

[Servant Lancer]

My scum pool.

Cool, save me for third?

Why do I love how specific this is.

@Avenger, I cant tell if youre kidding again or not

[Servant Lancer]

Tbh tbh I dont really think trying not to be townread is as reliable a tell as it sometimes feels
Berserker is not scum though for sure for sure Alter. 90% sure. That's basically sure.

[Servant Lancer]

@Saber - I dont rly think Caster is being very toxic to begin with, idk if I missed a really bad post which is super possible but "getting upset and rows when he doesnt get what he wants" doesnt sound like a scum tactic to me. I get scum can use ate when its convenient or downright play in a way that makes the game shitty but.... it does not look very targeted to me now and this one of like three slots I'm actually paying attention to.

[Servant Lancer]

Consider my vote symbolically on Saber, but I want that dedicated time from Ruler before I plonk down. At least drive bys from everybody (Berserker, Foreigner, Moon Cancer, etc) would be nice, too.

You're not interested in commentary from me? ((
Btw I didnt end up putting any more actual work into your ISO but I'm wondering where you're at right now.

[Servant Lancer]

What are the other slots you're paying attention to?

Caster Rider and Saber is all I'm managing atm, and actually its more like Caster and Rider to see if my townreads are legitimate or no

[Servant Lancer]

That's a great question. It could be Lancer; I'm not townreading him so much as he's given me pause. Which is enough for me to table him today.

Assuming both of Ruler and Saber are scum, the final one has to be in {Moon Cancer, Lancer, Beast}. Everyone else is town. I'd like to reevaluate Lancer, personally. It's on my to-do list. If you put a gun to my head I'd say Beast.

I want to see more from Foreigner though. Time is eating away my townread on the slot. Everyone else is town as fuck.

Pedit: Fucking 1 million. If she's scum this game, I'll give her a standing fucking ovation

This post has all the slots Im concerned with in the background including probtown Foreigner who due diligence says I should be looking at more than I am rn which is none.

Mindmelding isnt a good towntell but I still think Rider is town rn oh well

[Servant Lancer]

Actually, I'm pretty okay with you at the moment. I've actually liked your recent posting, including your reaction to zerk-rider. How's that for whiplash?

I dont know what you mean by zerk-rider, if you two had a an argument recently I literally have not read it, Im super not caught up and just trying my best. What did you think was a reaction?

[Servant Lancer]

Tbh tbh I dont really think trying not to be townread is as reliable a tell as it sometimes feels
Berserker is not scum though for sure for sure Alter. 90% sure. That's basically sure.

Independently of this, what is your read on Moon Cancer?

Tldr is null, more specific read is if he's one of two players I'm thinking of I think he is crazy enough to play like this as scum, but he hasn't really reminded me of those players and I'm not trusting my ability to guess mains anymore. I'd rather try and read other slots I think I can read better and PoE it out.

VOTE: Lancer

Whats up buttercup I thought we had an understanding where youre the only player I consistently manage to interact with.

[Servant Lancer]

I figured it out moments before seeing this post and I'd like that on the record.
But yes, thanks. I think I get as frustrated as scum too, in fairness. I dont like to resort to AtE as either alignment, and I'm not super happy I let myself get angry while thinking it might help me out a little, when I could have responded with a lot less venom than I did. Especially when stuff like that can often have the opposite effect, besides it just generally being shitty.

Was there other content you wanted to talk about at all? you sounded like there were other things besides that.

Pedit - New information if it can be applied to Foreigner v1 and v2s ISOs is one thing, but lacking that I usually find the later game paranoia of early game strong TRs to only be paranoia. Depending on the slot, but they made enough of an impression to me that I'm okay with it. I was about to compare it to a situation in another game and its again annoying that I can't do that. Take a drink every time this is mentioned, etc.

[Servant Lancer]

@Saber - I dont rly think Caster is being very toxic to begin with, idk if I missed a really bad post which is super possible but "getting upset and rows when he doesnt get what he wants" doesnt sound like a scum tactic to me. I get scum can use ate when its convenient or downright play in a way that makes the game shitty but.... it does not look very targeted to me now and this one of like three slots I'm actually paying attention to.

It is the most basic of scum tactics and all around unenjoyable.

That doesnt really address anything in my post or why you think it is targeted/scum as opposed to personality. What I quoted from you above, town do all the time too.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm Enkidu Chain of Heaven.

Sky attribute.
Traits are Humanoid, Servant, and Weak to Enuma Elish.

Skills:
3 shot Transfiguration: I can charge my NP and someone else's.
2 shot Presence Detection: Self-voyeur, I get actions performed on me but not who did them.
1 shot Consummated Shape: Can post at night, like what Beast did. The number of times = how many votes were on me.

My NP is Enuma Elish - Let Us Restrain Even The Gods. It's a jailkeep but it only works on players with the Divine trait. With a master it's upgraded to being able to use the blocked ability once, and I can grant another player their master ability on days 1 and 2.

Idk if its a good idea to claim my actions, I used transfiguration twice.

[Servant Lancer]

I'm assuming a rolecop?

[Servant Lancer]

Okay, can confirm I dont have a PT. But do me a favour and check with Cabd about if Consummated Shape counts as out of thread communication? Thats all I could think it would be besides this being a gambit or shenanigans.

[Servant Lancer]

Eh, I figured I was getting eliminated sometime. Hopefully it helps, more hopefully its actually a false positive somehow, but it sounds like a no.
Ive never heard of a PT Framer either but its the only option I can think of.
Whatever you do Id appreciate some time to give final thoughts in a day or so.